Houses and assets seized, bank emptied, pensions seized and at least 10years in prison each with no early release. They all knew from the beginning that Horizon was faulty. No apology will ever be good enough, only to serve time in prison will ever go towards putting things right but it will take years to do so.
And not knowing a thing and using totally useless soft ware then jailing the people you gave the totally useless software to use!! You can't make this us! Poor sub postmasters didn't stand a chance except one man had brains and will of steel thank god and he didn't work for this lot!
@@richardkinghorn4729 Oh no. They were absolutely the best at hiding facts, dissembling, misleading, and lying. They were very competent at these sorts of skills that the POL valued above all others. I submit that the company was working exactly the way it was intended to work.
@@0xFEEDC0DEAbsolutely spot on , they are ,if nothing else , extremely adept at subterfuge , bullying and telling downright lies , that such an organisation has flourished for so long acting in this manner is a disgrace to British business , hopefully most if not all of these individuals will face the full force of the law , unfortunately with the current state of British justice that is unlikely to happen.
There appears to be quite a few things he was not “Fully Aware Of”. You can be sure he was “Fully Aware Of”. His ridiculous salary and his even more ridiculous pension. So I’m afraid his apologies to Janet Skinner mean absolutely nothing.
It's _almost_ like a bunch of laws regarding accounting best practices that were removed in the 80s and 90s for being too onerous were quietly brought back because, for some reason, large transnational corporations were being so creative with accounting that no one was sure how much capital was even being passed around. Buying debt until you are so far up your own ass became business as usual until the bottom fell out and the tax base was left holding the bag. It's almost like something like that happened.
@@0xFEEDC0DE The whole thing make absolutely no sense. Surely the subpostmasters weren't the only ones affected by shortfall issues and the same MUST have been true at crown offices. Or is it true to say the Fujitsu were on the case with the crown offices and fixing them before dealing with anyone else and were overwhelmed. How can anyone with a sane mind say that the subpostmasters would even bother trying to steal from their own tills when in the very immediate term they'd have to make up the shortfall out of their own pocket to open the next day. It basically is like saying you would steal from your own bank account. In what universe does that make any sense.
@@ActualPreyThat’s a very important question. Presumably the crown offices were using the same Horizon software and would be recording similar transactions. I’d be interested if anyone has an answer to this or if it has been questioned during the last 12 years the problem has been recognized.
@@ActualPrey Even worse when you consider that Postmasters were telling the PO of these shortfalls and accountancy problems, what thief highlights their own theft?
These PO executives should be banned for life from holding any future position to do with the public. It's blatantly obvious that they are all guilty from top to bottom . So cruel and conniving. It will be some form of justice for them to be PROPERLY tried and dealt with....Alas , dealing with the"old boy net work" will be a hurdle I fear....
I completely agree but bear in mind that the bosses who destroyed a=3 of the 4 main retail banks in this country in 2008 were never sanctioned even though they should never have been allowed to run anything other than an ice cream van afterwards. One, iirc, is no left his position after the bank was rescued by tax payers money and immediately became CEO of Boots, so in effect he didn't suffer at all unlike the rest of us.
@@juliemaltby9751 Thursday 13 June Andy Dunks - former IT Security Analyst at Fujitsu Services Ltd; Friday 14 June Matthew Lenton - Document Manager, Post Office Account, at Fujitsu Services Ltd; Wednesday 19 June Richard Christou - former Chief Executive and Executive Chairman of Fujitsu Services Holdings plc and Duncan Tait - former Chief Executive of Fujitsu Services Ltd; Tuesday 25 June to Friday 28 June Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd.
If only he was the prosecution! They should be in the dock! It was either criminal that they actually did prosecute knowing they were innocent or criminally incompetent that they didn’t know and hadn’t carried out due diligence with Fujitsu! 🤬
There’s no prosecution going on here, it’s an inquiry. No doubt prosecutions will follow but that is separate from the inquiry. But yes: he is fantastic & probably not used to handling such “slam dunk” material 😮
Absolutely: wish he did all the interrogations ! Very ‘ Rumpolish ‘ in every sense !! Superb voice full of authority!! Other guy has the voice of a weasel by contrast which sums them all up en bloc !!
That's the way management by Corpocracy works. If you pay for people who know what they're doing, they might ask awkward questions. The big money goes to the *thicko* nowadays.
Without accountablity democracy will go down the drain! The post office, blood, covid and brexit scandales are clear examples of lack of accountability less in the upper reaches of government.
What an egotistical little man, looking around the room for approval as he was giving his main evidence. He so obviously didn't do his job which led directly to hundreds of people having their lives destroyed. Yet, even now, he stands to lose nothing. A few minutes of embarrassment as he gives evidence in public and then it's over for him. HE SHOULD HAVE HIS ASSETS REMOVED AND HE SHOULD GO TO PRISON.
Being incompetant is not a crime. He broke no law. We don't live in the USSR (or is it now China?), where people went to prison because they were imcompetant officials. His public shaming is his punishment. Anything more would be illegal.
@@stephenphillips4984 Who says imprison him for incompetence? How about conspiracy to pervert justice by hiding information about miscarriages That fits.
@@stephenphillips4984 Im not sure if he was being incompetent. I think they exactly what was going on and made the decision to let the postmasters go to prison rather than clean up their mess.
@@michaeladkins6there is quite a bit of evidence that they knew. If they weren't so rich and powerful they'd be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter because postmasters unalived themselves due to their culture of entitlement and arrogance. Personally I won't feel justice has been done until they're all either in prison or homeless in a tent!
Anyone in charge should have used basic common sense - why would hundreds of subpostmasters steal money from the PO knowing that they were responsible for any shortfalls? Knowing that they would be caught?
@@ClaireDewhurst-h5n I hadn't thought of that. Why would any one subpostmaster, let alone hundreds, be prepared to risk the thousands that they had put in just to steal money that they would have to repay?
Having been a Director, where if you’re not aware, there are actual ‘rules’ in the form of guidance and expectations of how you should behave and carry out your duties, I can assure you that “I didn’t know”, “I wasn’t aware”, “I never thought” are NOT defences. What on Earth WERE you doing, if it wasn’t your job?!? You are accountable to know and understand everything. If it’s too difficult for you, there are simpler jobs out there……
What a complete and utter lightweight. To think that anyone could interview this man and consider him for a senior position. Yet he went on to be the Chair of LV and was subsequently kicked out.
He knew exactly what was going on but his lawyers have advised him never to admit. Should now be under arrest alongside Crozier and Vennels. You can add Ed Davey to make a quartet.
Pathetic attempt to win over the enquiry with his virtue signalling claim to be one of the few senior PoL leaders to actively improve relations with post masters. Cook: I did not know POL could prosecute. I apologise for my mistakes. Crozier: Alan Cook looked like a leader in control of his brief. Incompetents or dishonest or both goes for both of these faux leaders.
Who is this Alan Cook guy and what business is he now destroying with his obvious lack of intelligence and curiosity? The guy is obviously an egregious liar and is lieing through his backside. Just in case it is not clear, I am calling him a liar.
I had to learn them when getting into politics online, mainly describing toxic tony, he told lie after lie, he lied constantly, making him the Liar of all `lying` scumbags.
Alan Cook CBE is now retired and lives quietly in a large detached house in the city while serving as a governor of Milton Keynes College. Advertisement
Yes, the money is in more than 700 shoe boxes buried in small back gardens throughout the UK. (In some cases over 100,000 pounds…big shoe box, that.) Independently, all these subpost-persons came up with this scheme…
NO ONE has shown 1. IF Money was actually missing 2. IF Money was missing who took it 3. That any Money was taken by any accused Sub Postmaster 4. IF Money DID go missing where it actually went 5. IF Fujitsu Employees who were entering the System WITHOUT AUTHORISATION had actually STOLEN Some or All of the alleged missing money 6. Where the Money Demanded by the Post Office from the Sub Postmasters is. That is STOLEN MONEY and the Post Office should have handed ALL of that money to the Police or Court of Law 7. IF this Government has ANY PLAN on how to Compensate those that suffered other than CASH. 8. IF the Post Office has agreed to Pay Pensions to those wrongly accused as if they had been employed until today. It is their RIGHT 9. IF anyone at Royal Mail/Post Office/Fujitsu who was involved will be BANNED from working for, directly or indirectly, any Government Organisation if National or Local 10. What charges will be made and to whom, there could be hundreds, for their role in this fiasco 11. What compensation families of those wrongly charged and/or accused will receive 12. WHERE will the money for compensation will come from
Maybe because this is an enquiry and the CPS hasn’t had enough evidence to date. My view is they should have moved straight to a charge rather than this enquiry. No one will face charges because the general public now have too great a knowledge of the events and thus it will be claimed an unbiased jury cannot be in place.
@@alanfinn77I am going to be extremely interested in hearing Paula vennels, I was expecting to see evidence of this guy knowing what he has done, it does seem that managers below the board were clearly not passing on information. I also reckon the operating director has something to hide.
It wasn’t ‘unacceptable’ it was criminal. Now let these incompetent, entitled liars face retribution. And let every penny of their undeserved bonuses be clawed back from them. Let them feel what is like to be shamed, lose everything and jailed.
Alan Cook must return all the money given to him by the Post Office, including future income such as from pensions or stocks. All the money returned must then be distributed to all the harmed sub-postmasters.
Imprisoned? Why? No proof has been provided that they knew the Horizon software was faulty and were allowing innocent postmasters to go to prison. Incompetance HAS been proved, but this is not a criminal act punishable by prison.
I simply cannot believe both Alan Cook & Adam Crozier put on such a display at the inquiry of distance & unawareness from what was going on with the Horizon system & prosecution of sub postmasters...it's like these two were working at a separate company....
These motherf****** have been briefed for weeks by lawyers of various denominations, the cost of which has been to the account of the taxpayer. It’s all too disgusting for words.
He said on the one hand that he didn’t know that the PO was conducting the prosecutions. He then said that when some sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses that admitted to false accounting it meant that “we were getting it right”. He knew exactly what was happening and when to whom. I really hope he is having sleepless nights worrying when the knock will come on his door in the middle of the night.
The Computer Weekly article appeared in 2009. He departed in 2010. He did not order an enquiry into what was going on, get an explanation why he wasn't told, or do anything to stop it - the persecution went on for five more years untouched, and remains unresolved 15 years later. In short, he's being partial with the truth.
You think he became fully aware there was a serious problem and walked as soon as he could saying nothing to let anyone know to put as much distance between himself and it before the doodoo hit the fan then? we have a smoking gun for Vennels already (those tapes), but I don't think we have one for him yet.
@@pelinoregeryon6593 Computer Weekly published their own account on the site yesterday. Go read. My career moved from a Business Administration degree which would have offered some exemptions from ACA qualification, into a Corporate Treasury function which developed a complex hedging methodology. Although that was in and of itself an external system, it needed an interface between its reporting system and the Group HQ's accounting, operating as an immediate and constant audit of our activity. Indeed, we were under constant watch by a former FCO vetter as well, lest any meltdown cause significant damage not just to the Company but to the economy more widely. In any case, I undertook an external course in computerised accounting systems, which in those days were saliently a cyclic batch methodology, and hints of that appear in the Horizon methodology, where previous days transactions, being burned into the balancing, ceased to be available for inspection. This was already out of date when I studied it in the mid-80s, and to find it still an issue a decade later is befuddling. Two major axioms come to mind: firstly, that no transaction can be deleted or amended, and secondly that no undocumented transaction can be entered. That they were, and may not have balanced, makes the Horizon system unusable as an accounting system and its replacement a matter of urgency. Damn the Treasury, begin again. The second issue, wholesale breaches of Human Rights and other laws, engages me in a private capacity as a legist appointed by the Belgian Supreme Court and as the officer of one of the two guarantors of the ECHR who deposited its last official document, its closure accounts. This really should go to the Supreme Court next, as it's their responsibility to deal with legal perversions. A primary tribune deals with the superficial case, then an Appeals Court deals with errors of fact caused by newly-discovered evidence, typically, and finally the Supreme Court deals with errors of Law, for example if the Prosecution had failed to disclose evidence of use to the defence. In these cases, that includes the prejudice towards the reliability of the computer system, when the business clearly knew otherwise. One urgent need is to expunge the convictions from the Postmasters' record, and any secondary consequences, for example vagrancy after losing their homes.
He admitted under oath that the Computer Weekly study highlighted potential issues. That was published during his tenure iirc. It is absolutely inconceivable that the PO board never once discussed this because it was significant news at the time. They will have had more than one discussion about it, how to present to the media, how to mitigate, how to handle the politicians and the subbies. The "strategy". To my mind, he knew and he knew full well. He just conveniently fails to remember. It was a mistake by him to say that the CW article brought it to his attention. Testimony under oath is very very strong evidence indeed.
Why is he smiling and laughing as if it's all funny? He does not appear to care or understand the pain and suffering that has been inflicted on the sub-postmasters and families either through wilful neglect to incompetence!!!
But these people will have moved to the PO from somewhere else and then slither on to a similar post in another organisation. There are so many dreadful and useless people at the top just moving around. Like the bank heads who destroyed and moved on. Bit like Boris Johnson etc. Move on move on.
Please lets also look at where the real problem lies - namely it is "The Law" that is totally at fault here. If it had not been for the apathy and incompetence in finding the TRUTH then none of this would have happened. "The Law" with their JUDGES and LAWYERS and BARRISTERS and anyone in that system with a title - HAVE COMPLETELY FAILED from the start!!!! In my view, the problem started with the FIRST WRONG CONVICTION - after that I believe that The PostOffice thereafter thought - if "The LAW" thinks they are guilty, then so must all others, and thats how it all spiralled out of control. With the apathy of JUDGES and LAWYERS and BARRISTERS and anyone else in that system have continued in NOT FINDING THE TRUTH and just blindly followed everyone else. But everyone is busy to find The PostOffice totally guilty - of course they are, but what about "The Law" ???? Why is no one judging them??? Why is "The Law" getting away with it all?? I'm sure them working for The Law are very happy for ALL OF US putting the total blame on The PostOffice as no one is looking at them. My firm believe is that any JUDGE or LAWYER or BARRISTER or anyone else in that system - should be STRIPPED from their LICENSES for life and NEVER be let back in again if it is proven that they have not done their job. Its just dispicable. If only they would be as good as the invoices they sent to everyone afterwards. They are the evil and cancer of todays society and if everyone ignores their involvement and guilt they we are eventually heading towards anarchy. If I have to compare them I would say they are the same as the STOCKMARKET - it doesn't matter is the price goes up or down, they make money either way.
@olusphone you guys are old fashioned, do you still use the keyboard?? And luckily their soon will be AI so that incompetence and people using their lazy minds by not explaining themselves in detail - but rather think they're clever by using a few words and thus confusing everyone. Hope this doesn't confuse you?
Didn't anyone think it strange that all these people accused of stealing from the PO were the very same people that had already been trying to call attention to the fact that the PO's accounting system was creating errors?..... I mean, what crook risks calling attention to their criminality?
The dismissive and disingenuous face of the entitled classes. These people expect no consequenes and have no compassion or conscience but instead will be feeling hard done by at this time in my view.
I’m noticing a pattern having followed the inquiry up to this point which is every single senior figure didn’t have a clue what was going on! The buck has to lay with senior figures or who is to blame?
Unfortunately this legal heavy handedness goes on consistently lead by large corporations against the small individual consumers. This injustice is another reminder of how the big corporations consistently bully small consumers
The management of Fujitsu UK should be interviewed by the police. They, ultimately, are responsible for the travesty that these innocent people suffered.
This person deserves to stand in front of a jury and have a fair trial for the seeming crimes they have committed . If the police don't act we need to follow Alan Bates and crowdfund such a process. We cannot let these people get away without a trial. My cheque book is ready if no action is taken. Let's have some proper justice for teflon executives for a change and get faith back in justice. Please join me if we need to Crowd fund for postmaster justice.
The intellectual mediocrity of most of the Post Office witnesses, is shocking. Especially this one, and the Investigators. The absentee Landlord, the various governments, never gripped the situation, the Civil Servants who were non executive directors also bear a very high proportion of the blame. I hope someone is going test if they were involved in a Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.
Corruption starts at the top yet the little person Kops it every time. 5.55 he has the cheek to laugh about chatting to that victim after the hearing!!! Another deal for her to plead guilty to?
I see that this gentleman currently can be booked as a motivational after dinner speaker. The booking company's website lists him as someone who put the Post Office into profitability but must have forgotten to mention the imprisoning of his employees on false charges....easily slips the mind, I guess.
You were the boss! You damned well SHOULD have been aware! Jeez these shysters need a prison cell for the next few years. And have all their assets stripped to pay for the compensation AND the return of the money that was stolen from them…WITH INTEREST!
The dignity of that poor woman - 9 months in jail with two small children. He laughs and sniggers an apology. The only truth he said was when he said that she probably wouldn’t want to speak to him afterwards. Did anybody in the PO management actually know what was happening in their business?
No contrition whatsoever.....just half hearted, empty opaque words. Utterly shameful! How that man can sit there and snigger whilst not remembering what he was doing on the 12th April 2007 makes me rage!! I hope every single one of these scum face the justice they deserve...a life time in jail would not be long enough!
How did these individuals get into these jobs with massive salaries only apologizing when found out and why was he laughing this mad man caused so much damage to so many good innocent people he should see jail none of these evil managers took responsibility and pass thè blame onto somebody else sickening have they got no conscience also did this bloke win his job in a lottery as he comes across as being slightly dim
The management benefited in bonuses due to increased profits and investigators received a bonus for a successful prosecution. These people must be stripped of their ill gotten gains and prosecuted for misfeance (abuse of power in public office)
If these prosecutions were an affront to the court, then the lawyers (PO LEGAL TEAM) orchastrated the affront. I am not trying to protect this man, but lawyers advised him as CEO that the prosecutions were sound, when they were not. He is correct, as CEO, the buck stops with him, but if he was mislead by the legal team, then why are the legal team not being quizzed, as in any good honest business, the CEO is only as good as his advisers! My point is, lawyers orchastrated the abominable injustice, and as court officers, mislead both client and court, as pointed out, undertook an affront to the court, then the buck is squarely resting in the Alps of the legal team. That's appears to be obvious to me, yet lost in this whole investigation.
Alan Crook seemed very smiley under questioning about his apparent ignorance, (with his "Tim Nice-But-Dim" act), any right minded person would be ashamed to show their face in public, in view of what these corporate thugs have done. As one of their victims said later, he just doesn't get it, does he. Prosecute, imprison, impoverish is the only way forward imho.
To be honest I actually think he is the most sincere person I have seen so far ..it's clear what was going on below him was corruption .. they below kept it all quite so the results they got would look good for them and sod the poor person it was aimed at ... If no person ends you in jail for this then I give up
At best an incompetent fool. No doubt handsomely rewarded for his incompetence. Still accountable and another one that should be staring at prison sentence.
How will we ever trust the post office again I have never seen so many suits in charge of an organisation plead stupidity like it or does it take a clever person to plead stupid
"I am NOT the sort of guy that is malicious or that would want to do harm to anyone." -Alan Cook I can "only" apologize ... NO, ALAN COOK, you can give your entire savings, earning, retirement, and proceeds from the sale of your house to the victims of the Post Office/Horizon attacks.
I have a lot more sympathy for this one than for Vennels, 1. unlike for her we have no proof (yet at least) he knew system was unreliable and let things carry on anyway, and 2. he's not prevaricating with weasel words, he doesn't appear to be trying to mitigate and excuse his role in all this with patently false excuses and lies, at least not here.
I started to feel for this guy, then I heard him say about the computer weekly article. As someone at the top at what point do you say hold on, we need to look into this? Let’s get these bullies locked up, and the lawyers who represented them too!
This guy is absolutely clueless, absolute nonsense. Disgraceful. Prison time! Who employed these bafoons? Very very sad for all of those dreadfully affected. My heart goes out. I remember reading about this a very long time ago on Private Eye. Thank God it's come to mainstream attention and accountability. We shall see!
So for over Three years he sat round his board room with all his manager,s and not one person ,talked , mentioned about sub-postmaster / mistress prosecutions , what a load of Cr
Smug barrister showboating for cameras whereas his profession are responsible for advising the POL to push ahead with prosecutions. The legal profession are highly culpable in all of this and whilst POL Execs are rightly having to explain their incompetence, make no mistake , the lawyers are highly responsible and are still making money from it
if these 'thugs in suits' should go to prison and have their pensions given to the victims.
... AND ALL THIER BONUYS'S FROM THE BEGINNING OF THIS TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE - FROM ' ALL' MENTIONED AND INTERVIEWED !!!
Houses and assets seized, bank emptied, pensions seized and at least 10years in prison each with no early release. They all knew from the beginning that Horizon was faulty. No apology will ever be good enough, only to serve time in prison will ever go towards putting things right but it will take years to do so.
For sure !
They Knew like Gangsters.
What’s the answer to your question or should the “if” not be there?
How many hundreds of thousands of pounds did this fool get paid for his claimed incompetence? All that money should be paid back.
Don’t you mean how many millions
It has been reported as £3 million over a four year period (2006-10), with £1.2 million in the last year.
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And not knowing a thing and using totally useless soft ware then jailing the people you gave the totally useless software to use!! You can't make this us! Poor sub postmasters didn't stand a chance except one man had brains and will of steel thank god and he didn't work for this lot!
Scum
This beggars belief! Incompetence or lies or both.
Total incompetence from the very top.
@@richardkinghorn4729 Oh no. They were absolutely the best at hiding facts, dissembling, misleading, and lying. They were very competent at these sorts of skills that the POL valued above all others. I submit that the company was working exactly the way it was intended to work.
@@richardkinghorn4729Why is it These Maggots get the Big Bucks And never Take Responsibility
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@@0xFEEDC0DEAbsolutely spot on , they are ,if nothing else , extremely adept at subterfuge , bullying and telling downright lies , that such an organisation has flourished for so long acting in this manner is a disgrace to British business , hopefully most if not all of these individuals will face the full force of the law , unfortunately with the current state of British justice that is unlikely to happen.
Magnificent performance by the lawyer. Contrast with the lamentable performance by the pathetic Mr Cook as MANAGING DIRECTOR of the Post Office.
There appears to be quite a few things he was not “Fully Aware Of”. You can be sure he was “Fully Aware Of”. His ridiculous salary
and his even more ridiculous pension. So I’m afraid his apologies to Janet Skinner mean absolutely nothing.
You are Correct in every detail
He probably 'cannot recall' either. They're a disgrace.
Didn't anybody notice that there was a sudden jump in prosecutions for "fiddling the books"?
It's _almost_ like a bunch of laws regarding accounting best practices that were removed in the 80s and 90s for being too onerous were quietly brought back because, for some reason, large transnational corporations were being so creative with accounting that no one was sure how much capital was even being passed around. Buying debt until you are so far up your own ass became business as usual until the bottom fell out and the tax base was left holding the bag. It's almost like something like that happened.
@@0xFEEDC0DE The whole thing make absolutely no sense. Surely the subpostmasters weren't the only ones affected by shortfall issues and the same MUST have been true at crown offices. Or is it true to say the Fujitsu were on the case with the crown offices and fixing them before dealing with anyone else and were overwhelmed. How can anyone with a sane mind say that the subpostmasters would even bother trying to steal from their own tills when in the very immediate term they'd have to make up the shortfall out of their own pocket to open the next day. It basically is like saying you would steal from your own bank account. In what universe does that make any sense.
The PO thinking was that Horizon was highlighting the fraud/theft that had been happening before & wasn't able to be spotted.
@@ActualPreyThat’s a very important question. Presumably the crown offices were using the same Horizon software and would be recording similar transactions. I’d be interested if anyone has an answer to this or if it has been questioned during the last 12 years the problem has been recognized.
@@ActualPrey Even worse when you consider that Postmasters were telling the PO of these shortfalls and accountancy problems, what thief highlights their own theft?
Prison sentence required for Royal Mail Management
I think you mean post office management. Royal mail is different from the post office.
@@beltrofix7667, no look at the video of Simon thompson being dishonest to parliament select Committee, he needs to face a criminal prosecution
Won't happen more chance of peace in the middle east or iran converting to chritianity
These PO executives should be banned for life from holding any future position to do with the public. It's blatantly obvious that they are all guilty from top to bottom . So cruel and conniving. It will be some form of justice for them to be PROPERLY tried and dealt with....Alas , dealing with the"old boy net work" will be a hurdle I fear....
I completely agree but bear in mind that the bosses who destroyed a=3 of the 4 main retail banks in this country in 2008 were never sanctioned even though they should never have been allowed to run anything other than an ice cream van afterwards. One, iirc, is no left his position after the bank was rescued by tax payers money and immediately became CEO of Boots, so in effect he didn't suffer at all unlike the rest of us.
Cruel is exactly the word my friend. And one I've not heard used. But it is apt. The whole grotty, disingenuous shower make me sick to my stomach.
They all are on very nice pension package now, so it's too late
These are the types that run our country .. no wonder its in such an awful state..
Citizens justice is required
Apologies and lessons learned is what PO are wanting but people are wanting prosecutions and prison sentences
Lessons may be learned, but how many posteriors will need to be kicked before those lessons are applied?
I cannot recommend Candide by Voltaire too highly. It cuts to the chase.
And that includes Mambers of the government who were in charge of the Post Office at the time
Boycott Fujitsu and bankrupt the company.
Does anyone know when fujitsu bosses appear for the inquiry
@@juliemaltby9751 Thursday 13 June Andy Dunks - former IT Security Analyst at Fujitsu Services Ltd; Friday 14 June Matthew Lenton - Document Manager, Post Office Account, at Fujitsu Services Ltd; Wednesday 19 June Richard Christou - former Chief Executive and Executive Chairman of Fujitsu Services Holdings plc and Duncan Tait - former Chief Executive of Fujitsu Services Ltd; Tuesday 25 June to Friday 28 June Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd.
@juliemaltby9751 I think the interesting one is the lead architect at fujitsu who had asked for imunity
I think they have just been awarded another government contract
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The prosecution guy is fantastic
Indeed, his own anger is palpable.
If only he was the prosecution! They should be in the dock! It was either criminal that they actually did prosecute knowing they were innocent or criminally incompetent that they didn’t know and hadn’t carried out due diligence with Fujitsu! 🤬
There’s no prosecution going on here, it’s an inquiry. No doubt prosecutions will follow but that is separate from the inquiry. But yes: he is fantastic & probably not used to handling such “slam dunk” material 😮
Like a über-serious Brian Blessed. Rich, fruity, Rumple of the Bailey voice. Respect.
Absolutely: wish he did all the interrogations ! Very ‘ Rumpolish ‘ in every sense !! Superb voice full of authority!! Other guy has the voice of a weasel by contrast which sums them all up en bloc !!
The higher you go, the less they know, the more they get paid, the less responsibility they have. What kind of a corrupt country do we live in?
That's the way management by Corpocracy works. If you pay for people who know what they're doing, they might ask awkward questions. The big money goes to the *thicko* nowadays.
A VERY corrupt one.
UK is the most corrupt country in the OECD
Well said and true, never heard so many spineless executives in my life. None appear remotely truthful and the idea they didn't know is ridiculous.
Without accountablity democracy will go down the drain! The post office, blood, covid and brexit scandales are clear examples of lack of accountability less in the upper reaches of government.
I’m sorry but I do not believe him. Unless he spent all his time at the PO on the golf course, it is incomprehensible that he did not know.
Hold these guys to account!! Get them in a proper court .....so they get sent down???
What an egotistical little man, looking around the room for approval as he was giving his main evidence. He so obviously didn't do his job which led directly to hundreds of people having their lives destroyed. Yet, even now, he stands to lose nothing. A few minutes of embarrassment as he gives evidence in public and then it's over for him. HE SHOULD HAVE HIS ASSETS REMOVED AND HE SHOULD GO TO PRISON.
Being incompetant is not a crime. He broke no law. We don't live in the USSR (or is it now China?), where people went to prison because they were imcompetant officials. His public shaming is his punishment. Anything more would be illegal.
@@stephenphillips4984 Who says imprison him for incompetence? How about conspiracy to pervert justice by hiding information about miscarriages That fits.
@@stephenphillips4984 Im not sure if he was being incompetent. I think they exactly what was going on and made the decision to let the postmasters go to prison rather than clean up their mess.
@@michaeladkins6there is quite a bit of evidence that they knew. If they weren't so rich and powerful they'd be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter because postmasters unalived themselves due to their culture of entitlement and arrogance. Personally I won't feel justice has been done until they're all either in prison or homeless in a tent!
Anyone in charge should have used basic common sense - why would hundreds of subpostmasters steal money from the PO knowing that they were responsible for any shortfalls? Knowing that they would be caught?
Indeed - the amount of people caught up in this is staggering!!! Top bosses asleep at the wheel.
And they had invested their own money into these businesses
@@ClaireDewhurst-h5n I hadn't thought of that. Why would any one subpostmaster, let alone hundreds, be prepared to risk the thousands that they had put in just to steal money that they would have to repay?
Common sense is a remarkably scarce commodity, particularly on the Post Office.
@@pamvarnsverry2444 they where fine getting paid to look the other way.
Having been a Director, where if you’re not aware, there are actual ‘rules’ in the form of guidance and expectations of how you should behave and carry out your duties, I can assure you that “I didn’t know”, “I wasn’t aware”, “I never thought” are NOT defences.
What on Earth WERE you doing, if it wasn’t your job?!?
You are accountable to know and understand everything. If it’s too difficult for you, there are simpler jobs out there……
This s guy is lying. When someone admits incompetence you have to know that they are lying.
He said to the imprisoned, innocent woman 'this will always be with you and also always with me' !! - I didn't know whether to laugh or cry
Those that conspired to deprive others of their liberty should have their own taken away.
Your theory is great but it applies only to ordinary folk.
Those members of old boys club are immune to your theory.
Shame on you Mr cook
Innit
Apologise Mr Cook when you had a SMIRK on your face what a disgrace to mankind you are are you still employed by the Post Office????
What a complete and utter lightweight. To think that anyone could interview this man and consider him for a senior position. Yet he went on to be the Chair of LV and was subsequently kicked out.
He's got a reedy, Monty Python voice to boot. Pitiful.
He went to the right school.
They should all be jailed but I bet they won't
He really didn’t have a clue what he was doing in his position. Shameful
He knew exactly what was going on but his lawyers have advised him never to admit. Should now be under arrest alongside Crozier and Vennels. You can add Ed Davey to make a quartet.
so he says
Pathetic attempt to win over the enquiry with his virtue signalling claim to be one of the few senior PoL leaders to actively improve relations with post masters.
Cook: I did not know POL could prosecute. I apologise for my mistakes.
Crozier: Alan Cook looked like a leader in control of his brief. Incompetents
or dishonest or both goes for both of these faux leaders.
So what was he paid for ???
Who is this Alan Cook guy and what business is he now destroying with his obvious lack of intelligence and curiosity? The guy is obviously an egregious liar and is lieing through his backside. Just in case it is not clear, I am calling him a liar.
I had to learn them when getting into politics online, mainly describing toxic tony, he told lie after lie, he lied constantly, making him the Liar of all `lying` scumbags.
Me too
LIAR with a capital L
Me too
Alan Cook CBE is now retired and lives quietly in a large detached house in the city while serving as a governor of Milton Keynes College.
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Evil, and disgusting ....has anyone ever said what happened to all the money.....lives were destroyed over all of this.
The post office kept it and added it to their profits to increase bonuses.
Yes, the money is in more than 700 shoe boxes buried in small back gardens throughout the UK. (In some cases over 100,000 pounds…big shoe box, that.) Independently, all these subpost-persons came up with this scheme…
Bonuses and eye-watering salaries and likely bulging property portfolios for those at the top. And wrongful convictions and suicides for the workers.
As their legal lot
NO ONE has shown
1. IF Money was actually missing
2. IF Money was missing who took it
3. That any Money was taken by any accused Sub Postmaster
4. IF Money DID go missing where it actually went
5. IF Fujitsu Employees who were entering the System WITHOUT AUTHORISATION had actually STOLEN Some or All of the alleged missing money
6. Where the Money Demanded by the Post Office from the Sub Postmasters is. That is STOLEN MONEY and the Post Office should have handed ALL of that money to the Police or Court of Law
7. IF this Government has ANY PLAN on how to Compensate those that suffered other than CASH.
8. IF the Post Office has agreed to Pay Pensions to those wrongly accused as if they had been employed until today. It is their RIGHT
9. IF anyone at Royal Mail/Post Office/Fujitsu who was involved will be BANNED from working for, directly or indirectly, any Government Organisation if National or Local
10. What charges will be made and to whom, there could be hundreds, for their role in this fiasco
11. What compensation families of those wrongly charged and/or accused will receive
12. WHERE will the money for compensation will come from
Why is he not facing criminal charges himself?... 🐊😭
Its a case of old boys club, looking after each other.
Maybe because this is an enquiry and the CPS hasn’t had enough evidence to date. My view is they should have moved straight to a charge rather than this enquiry. No one will face charges because the general public now have too great a knowledge of the events and thus it will be claimed an unbiased jury cannot be in place.
Inquires are being made into top level people right now.
Wait and see.....
Arnt these people paid vast amounts to take RESPONSIBILTY???????
"Responsibility? What strange word is this?"
Thugs in suits😮😮
The ones at the top are clueless
Not sure how clueless Paula Vennells was she knew years ago I would say from day 1 and yet continued to lie or withhold the truth
@@alanfinn77I am going to be extremely interested in hearing Paula vennels, I was expecting to see evidence of this guy knowing what he has done, it does seem that managers below the board were clearly not passing on information.
I also reckon the operating director has something to hide.
It wasn’t ‘unacceptable’ it was criminal. Now let these incompetent, entitled liars face retribution. And let every penny of their undeserved bonuses be clawed back from them. Let them feel what is like to be shamed, lose everything and jailed.
He’s very sorry. He has been caught out.
Alan Cook must return all the money given to him by the Post Office, including future income such as from pensions or stocks. All the money returned must then be distributed to all the harmed sub-postmasters.
So what is he going to do now ?
They should be stripped of their pension and imprisoned
Imprisoned? Why? No proof has been provided that they knew the Horizon software was faulty and were allowing innocent postmasters to go to prison. Incompetance HAS been proved, but this is not a criminal act punishable by prison.
I simply cannot believe both Alan Cook & Adam Crozier put on such a display at the inquiry of distance & unawareness from what was going on with the Horizon system & prosecution of sub postmasters...it's like these two were working at a separate company....
These motherf****** have been briefed for weeks by lawyers of various denominations, the cost of which has been to the account of the taxpayer.
It’s all too disgusting for words.
What a scumbag - doing his best to walk away scot free with just a giggling apology. He is culpable and must pay.
The word you're looking for is duress. They made a plea deal UNDER DURESS.
Give them all 10 years!!
For sure , everyone last one of them ! The laws also !
The trouble is that if they are jailed ,isn’t it a fact that we will be in a way paying for their upkeep
@@ritab8663far more important, each one must be imprisoned for many years
MD and he didn’t have a clue what was going on in the company. He’s living in cloud 9 cuckoo land
He said on the one hand that he didn’t know that the PO was conducting the prosecutions. He then said that when some sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses that admitted to false accounting it meant that “we were getting it right”. He knew exactly what was happening and when to whom. I really hope he is having sleepless nights worrying when the knock will come on his door in the middle of the night.
totally incompetent, he did not know the PO could pursue its own prosecutions ??
That statement of his beggars belief.Did he not know the PO had an investigating team and prosecuting legal team?
The Computer Weekly article appeared in 2009. He departed in 2010. He did not order an enquiry into what was going on, get an explanation why he wasn't told, or do anything to stop it - the persecution went on for five more years untouched, and remains unresolved 15 years later. In short, he's being partial with the truth.
You think he became fully aware there was a serious problem and walked as soon as he could saying nothing to let anyone know to put as much distance between himself and it before the doodoo hit the fan then? we have a smoking gun for Vennels already (those tapes), but I don't think we have one for him yet.
@@pelinoregeryon6593 I don't know, but he's admitted awareness of the study, so is fully responsible.
@@JelMain Hmm, I'm not sure that's enough for a slam dunk like the tapes are for her 🤔 who did the study and what did it say again?
@@pelinoregeryon6593 Computer Weekly published their own account on the site yesterday. Go read.
My career moved from a Business Administration degree which would have offered some exemptions from ACA qualification, into a Corporate Treasury function which developed a complex hedging methodology. Although that was in and of itself an external system, it needed an interface between its reporting system and the Group HQ's accounting, operating as an immediate and constant audit of our activity. Indeed, we were under constant watch by a former FCO vetter as well, lest any meltdown cause significant damage not just to the Company but to the economy more widely. In any case, I undertook an external course in computerised accounting systems, which in those days were saliently a cyclic batch methodology, and hints of that appear in the Horizon methodology, where previous days transactions, being burned into the balancing, ceased to be available for inspection. This was already out of date when I studied it in the mid-80s, and to find it still an issue a decade later is befuddling.
Two major axioms come to mind: firstly, that no transaction can be deleted or amended, and secondly that no undocumented transaction can be entered. That they were, and may not have balanced, makes the Horizon system unusable as an accounting system and its replacement a matter of urgency. Damn the Treasury, begin again.
The second issue, wholesale breaches of Human Rights and other laws, engages me in a private capacity as a legist appointed by the Belgian Supreme Court and as the officer of one of the two guarantors of the ECHR who deposited its last official document, its closure accounts. This really should go to the Supreme Court next, as it's their responsibility to deal with legal perversions. A primary tribune deals with the superficial case, then an Appeals Court deals with errors of fact caused by newly-discovered evidence, typically, and finally the Supreme Court deals with errors of Law, for example if the Prosecution had failed to disclose evidence of use to the defence. In these cases, that includes the prejudice towards the reliability of the computer system, when the business clearly knew otherwise.
One urgent need is to expunge the convictions from the Postmasters' record, and any secondary consequences, for example vagrancy after losing their homes.
He admitted under oath that the Computer Weekly study highlighted potential issues. That was published during his tenure iirc.
It is absolutely inconceivable that the PO board never once discussed this because it was significant news at the time. They will have had more than one discussion about it, how to present to the media, how to mitigate, how to handle the politicians and the subbies. The "strategy".
To my mind, he knew and he knew full well. He just conveniently fails to remember.
It was a mistake by him to say that the CW article brought it to his attention. Testimony under oath is very very strong evidence indeed.
Once a plea is made, no evidence is given. A great strategy for corrupt prosecutions.
Why is he smiling and laughing as if it's all funny? He does not appear to care or understand the pain and suffering that has been inflicted on the sub-postmasters and families either through wilful neglect to incompetence!!!
Exactly ! These bosses have no remorse. Perhaps a jail sentence will hit home !
I wondered that, he doesn’t care
He's not the only one Rodric Williams was another, nervous laughter. Squirming. Some are far to arrogant, but the squirmers are good to watch.
Its hard to imagine an institution with such inadequate and pernicious management .
well just look at the government
Look at most public services.
Two more brains, he'd be a half wit.
But these people will have moved to the PO from somewhere else and then slither on to a similar post in another organisation. There are so many dreadful and useless people at the top just moving around. Like the bank heads who destroyed and moved on. Bit like Boris Johnson etc. Move on move on.
Yes (at the end), apologize, turn over all your money and estates to her, and hold out your hands for the cuffs: Apology accepted!
Please lets also look at where the real problem lies - namely it is "The Law" that is totally at fault here. If it had not been for the apathy and incompetence in finding the TRUTH then none of this would have happened. "The Law" with their JUDGES and LAWYERS and BARRISTERS and anyone in that system with a title - HAVE COMPLETELY FAILED from the start!!!! In my view, the problem started with the FIRST WRONG CONVICTION - after that I believe that The PostOffice thereafter thought - if "The LAW" thinks they are guilty, then so must all others, and thats how it all spiralled out of control. With the apathy of JUDGES and LAWYERS and BARRISTERS and anyone else in that system have continued in NOT FINDING THE TRUTH and just blindly followed everyone else. But everyone is busy to find The PostOffice totally guilty - of course they are, but what about "The Law" ???? Why is no one judging them??? Why is "The Law" getting away with it all?? I'm sure them working for The Law are very happy for ALL OF US putting the total blame on The PostOffice as no one is looking at them. My firm believe is that any JUDGE or LAWYER or BARRISTER or anyone else in that system - should be STRIPPED from their LICENSES for life and NEVER be let back in again if it is proven that they have not done their job. Its just dispicable. If only they would be as good as the invoices they sent to everyone afterwards. They are the evil and cancer of todays society and if everyone ignores their involvement and guilt they we are eventually heading towards anarchy.
If I have to compare them I would say they are the same as the STOCKMARKET - it doesn't matter is the price goes up or down, they make money either way.
Sorry you have and will be so screwed! That a great Country,🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Your keyboard is broken.
@user-xn1oo4my3e just another way to make sure people are not confused. What you mean? 😀
@@0xFEEDC0DE no, its the mind controlling the keyboard that is broken.
@olusphone you guys are old fashioned, do you still use the keyboard?? And luckily their soon will be AI so that incompetence and people using their lazy minds by not explaining themselves in detail - but rather think they're clever by using a few words and thus confusing everyone. Hope this doesn't confuse you?
All these pol are lies, paid off by Fujitsu for keep quiet,, and we'll give you a pension!
For sure ! I guess you can’t fix stupid ! Or we just blame others ! 😢
The only justice would be for all of them who knew to be locked up
She lost NINE MONTHS of her children's lives. There's no compensation for that loss.
The ones at the time were clueless
Finally a prosecutor who is tough questioning
Totally shocking. Full compensation required, especially for unlawful time served. Alas it will never happen.
Didn't anyone think it strange that all these people accused of stealing from the PO were the very same people that had already been trying to call attention to the fact that the PO's accounting system was creating errors?..... I mean, what crook risks calling attention to their criminality?
He's a bloody good lawyer. He doesn't mince his words.
The dismissive and disingenuous face of the entitled classes.
These people expect no consequenes and have no compassion or conscience but instead will be feeling hard done by at this time in my view.
I’m noticing a pattern having followed the inquiry up to this point which is every single senior figure didn’t have a clue what was going on! The buck has to lay with senior figures or who is to blame?
It's called "willful ignorance, willful stupidity and outright lies".
Unfortunately this legal heavy handedness goes on consistently lead by large corporations against the small individual consumers. This injustice is another reminder of how the big corporations consistently bully small consumers
Beyond disgusting! How this could happen in England is beyond mind boggling....
Denying any knowledge and pleading ignorance is a known damage limitation strategy.
The management of Fujitsu UK should be interviewed by the police. They, ultimately, are responsible for the travesty that these innocent people suffered.
This person deserves to stand in front of a jury and have a fair trial for the seeming crimes they have committed .
If the police don't act we need to follow Alan Bates and crowdfund such a process. We cannot let these people get away without a trial.
My cheque book is ready if no action is taken.
Let's have some proper justice for teflon executives for a change and get faith back in justice.
Please join me if we need to
Crowd fund for postmaster justice.
The intellectual mediocrity of most of the Post Office witnesses, is shocking. Especially this one, and the Investigators. The absentee Landlord, the various governments, never gripped the situation, the Civil Servants who were non executive directors also bear a very high proportion of the blame. I hope someone is going test if they were involved in a Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.
They were all in cushy, well paid, jobs for life, so why rock the boat with the truth?
Corruption starts at the top yet the little person Kops it every time. 5.55 he has the cheek to laugh about chatting to that victim after the hearing!!! Another deal for her to plead guilty to?
Instead of apologising he could name names.
I see that this gentleman currently can be booked as a motivational after dinner speaker. The booking company's website lists him as someone who put the Post Office into profitability but must have forgotten to mention the imprisoning of his employees on false charges....easily slips the mind, I guess.
If this was a re-run of the Nuremberg trials this fella would be Goering!
Vennels would be Himmler.
Well done Mr Henry
Just taking the big wage packet and not doing the job.
It beggars belief that he didn't know, an insult to the inquiry to try and even fool us into thinking that was the case.
You were the boss! You damned well SHOULD have been aware! Jeez these shysters need a prison cell for the next few years. And have all their assets stripped to pay for the compensation AND the return of the money that was stolen from them…WITH INTEREST!
A Superb masterclass in how to examine a witness. A KC at the top of his game. Excellent.
Cook and Crozier and Vennells should be in jail
And David Smith.
The dignity of that poor woman - 9 months in jail with two small children.
He laughs and sniggers an apology. The only truth he said was when he said that she probably wouldn’t want to speak to him afterwards.
Did anybody in the PO management actually know what was happening in their business?
No contrition whatsoever.....just half hearted, empty opaque words. Utterly shameful! How that man can sit there and snigger whilst not remembering what he was doing on the 12th April 2007 makes me rage!! I hope every single one of these scum face the justice they deserve...a life time in jail would not be long enough!
How did these individuals get into these jobs with massive salaries only apologizing when found out and why was he laughing this mad man caused so much damage to so many good innocent people he should see jail none of these evil managers took responsibility and pass thè blame onto somebody else sickening have they got no conscience also did this bloke win his job in a lottery as he comes across as being slightly dim
The management benefited in bonuses due to increased profits and investigators received a bonus for a successful prosecution. These people must be stripped of their ill gotten gains and prosecuted for misfeance (abuse of power in public office)
If these prosecutions were an affront to the court, then the lawyers (PO LEGAL TEAM) orchastrated the affront.
I am not trying to protect this man, but lawyers advised him as CEO that the prosecutions were sound, when they were not.
He is correct, as CEO, the buck stops with him, but if he was mislead by the legal team, then why are the legal team not being quizzed, as in any good honest business, the CEO is only as good as his advisers!
My point is, lawyers orchastrated the abominable injustice, and as court officers, mislead both client and court, as pointed out, undertook an affront to the court, then the buck is squarely resting in the Alps of the legal team.
That's appears to be obvious to me, yet lost in this whole investigation.
Alan Crook seemed very smiley under questioning about his apparent ignorance, (with his "Tim Nice-But-Dim" act), any right minded person would be ashamed to show their face in public, in view of what these corporate thugs have done. As one of their victims said later, he just doesn't get it, does he. Prosecute, imprison, impoverish is the only way forward imho.
So Alan Cook is not malicious he reckons. I dread to think what might have been the result if he was then. Odious little man.
To be honest I actually think he is the most sincere person I have seen so far ..it's clear what was going on below him was corruption .. they below kept it all quite so the results they got would look good for them and sod the poor person it was aimed at ... If no person ends you in jail for this then I give up
Cook was accountable and should pay dearly for his malfeasance.
Poor woman and her kids ❤❤❤❤❤
At best an incompetent fool.
No doubt handsomely rewarded for his incompetence.
Still accountable and another one that should be staring at prison sentence.
It’s like watching a child covered in chocolate telling his mum he never ate the chocolate cake! 🧐
Best analogy 👌
Worst injustice, perhaps in England and certainly modern English History . The Management at the time should be jailed 😢
Why are these people not on trial😢
How will we ever trust the post office again I have never seen so many suits in charge of an organisation plead stupidity like it or does it take a clever person to plead stupid
"I am NOT the sort of guy that is malicious or that would want to do harm to anyone." -Alan Cook
I can "only" apologize ... NO, ALAN COOK, you can give your entire savings, earning, retirement, and proceeds from the sale of your house to the victims of the Post Office/Horizon attacks.
I have a lot more sympathy for this one than for Vennels, 1. unlike for her we have no proof (yet at least) he knew system was unreliable and let things carry on anyway, and 2. he's not prevaricating with weasel words, he doesn't appear to be trying to mitigate and excuse his role in all this with patently false excuses and lies, at least not here.
I started to feel for this guy, then I heard him say about the computer weekly article. As someone at the top at what point do you say hold on, we need to look into this? Let’s get these bullies locked up, and the lawyers who represented them too!
It just gets worse.
This guy is absolutely clueless, absolute nonsense. Disgraceful. Prison time! Who employed these bafoons? Very very sad for all of those dreadfully affected. My heart goes out. I remember reading about this a very long time ago on Private Eye. Thank God it's come to mainstream attention and accountability. We shall see!
he's laughing
He still didn't grasp how serious the situation was.
His attitude is entirely cavalier thinking "sorry" is enough perhaps the Criminal charges that will follow will sharpen his awareness
Ripped a new one I'd say.
Who’s the bloke asking the question’s he should be the prosecution lawyer at the post office bosses trials, he’ll get them all sent down.
What an absolutely disgusting cover up.
So for over Three years he sat round his board room with all his manager,s and not one person ,talked , mentioned about sub-postmaster / mistress prosecutions , what a load of Cr
Smug barrister showboating for cameras whereas his profession are responsible for advising the POL to push ahead with prosecutions. The legal profession are highly culpable in all of this and whilst POL Execs are rightly having to explain their incompetence, make no mistake , the lawyers are highly responsible and are still making money from it