Ford 5.4L Timing Chain Replacement, Cloyes 9-0391SB
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2017
- 🔥 This technical video from Cloyes covers the removal and installation of the timing drive system for Ford's 4.6/5.4/6.8L engine.
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⛓ Part numbers related to this video are: 9-0387S, 9-0387SA, 9-0387SAX, 9-0387SB, 9-0387SC, 9-0387SD, 9-0387SE, 9-0387SF, 9-0387SG, 9-0387SGX, 9-0387SH, 9-0387SHX, 9-0387SJ, 9-0387SK, 9-0387SKVVT, 9-0387SKVVT1, 9-0391S, 9-0391SB, 9-0391SBVVT, 9-0391SBVVT1, 9-0391SC, 9-0391SCX, 9-0391SD, 9-0391SE, 9-0391SF, 9-0391SG, 9-0391SH, 9-0391SX, 9-5319, 9-5320, 9-5338, 9-5339, 9-5340, 9-5341, 9-5371, 9-5372, 9-5391, 9-5392, 9-5393, 9-5394, 9-5395, 9-5396, 9-5397, 9-5428, 9-5429, 9-5430, 9-5431, 9-5432, 9-5433, 9-5459, 9-5461, 9-5462, 9-5463, 9-5464, C189, C387, C391, S764T, S766T, S790, S790A, S843, S869, VC100, VTS100
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We purchased your product , once I open the Box I saw the Sticker which leads me to this video,,,Thank you Corey
By the way love your timing chain videos, I’ve used them on many chain replacements. I have repair programs but for chain replacements, I use your videos and your chains. Thank you, maybe by any chance you could send me a sign to my shop. I would definitely hang up a cloyes sign.
Great video. Thanks . I've used many of your parts over the years.
Real nice job! Just completed this on a friend’s truck. Lots of misleading stuff on TH-cam, great to see a straight-forward and accurate how-to
Did this method work? Seems to good to be true without removing followers. In the process of doing mine
@@kingreyna Yes it did. The truck we worked on has been daily driven and has performed great for the past year
Awesome video and I really like the responses you give to people :)
Thanks!
i just finished putting my chain cover, all pulleys and belt on. Planned on starting it up tomorrow. Watching this video made me remember I forgot to pull the damn chain tensioner pins...... Now I have to undo everything I did today and redo it tomorrow.
Noooooo!! with the pain that is to loosen the power steering !!!
the rebuilt engines have align bored cam journals and bearings installed . looks easy with engine out of truck!!
except the fact i'm playing with the DOHC 4v version, this was real helpful, i've been worried about doing it wrong
this guy makes me smile everytime :D
Great video. Thank you! I thought about buying the cheaper chains but after watching this, I will buy yours.
Thanks Brian! Let us know if you have any questions.
If you fold a piece of paper a few times and lightly bolt it under a cam cap it will keep the camshaft from rotating.Just don't forget to remove it and properly torque the cap back..
What is the tool name??? Please and thanks
@@Cloyes01 what is the name tool??please and thank you??
@@mariaperalta7117 What tool?
Do you have to take the roller followers out of the 2 valve 5.4L engine also? Do you have a video on timing a 2 valve engine I just did a head job on it and need to know how to set the cams to do the timing. Thank you.
Cody you make the timing of the 3v engine so easy and well explained to some videos i see they’re moving roller follower and lash adjuster and sparks plugs..So Cody the crankshaft key is at 12 o’clock and the timing mark is at 7 o’clock position..
Just rotate the crank one more full rotation. That will position your cam 180 degrees from where it is now.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. so Cody quick question so you don’t have to remove the roller following ,lash adjusters and sparks plugs and position to he number one cylinder at Top Dead Center to time the 3v engine.You make it look easy.
@@michaelmurray121 Nope, you don't need to do any of that. Those instructions were originally authored by Ford for the replacement of cam phasers without timing cover removal. Then, for whatever reason, everyone else adopted the same procedure for timing replacement. If you are removing the timing cover all of those steps are unnecessary.
@@michaelmurray121 I don’t know what their talking about but this procedure is still in service data. It still says cam followers need to be removed from certain cam lobes
Cloyes kit 9-0391SBVVT. Has a straight torque spec for Cam phaser. No additional 90degress are needed. And I've just taken the entire kit back out of my motor after 2 days and thrown it in the trash. Phaser's failed straight out of the box and unsure if tensioner's are still usable.
Jeez...making junky critical engine parts is a new low. I put a cloyes timing chain and gear into my daughters 2003 taurus. I knew they were cheap, but I figured how to you mess up a gear and chain?
Nice video, but you guys need to go back to the drawing board for your hydraulic chain tensioners. Used your kit in my 2008 F250 with 5.4 and the tensioner blew out and I lost oil pressure. Barely got home. I'll be sticking to Ford OEM for timing chain parts, but hopefully you guys improve
I love this guy and his stuff (his products)
I keep telling my boss (arab) to start buying from cloyes but he is way too cheap and buys Chinas from Ebay which is lot more expensive in the long run when he has to pay twice
Lol man I seriously understand what you mean by saying he’s arab. I’m arab and my dad is arab, the only difference is he’s the old school arab that likes to do things very very cheaply. I’m the arab that likes to do things with the highest quality.
did the timing chains and now im having trouble with idle clacking what would that be ?
Read the fine print!!! Cloyes video here tells you to torque phasers to factory spec,30lbs+90°. Well the bolts in the Cloyes kit says 90 lbs, be careful! Shot myself in the foot, hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.
We filmed this video before we offered the bolts and phasers. We do recommend our bolts get torqued to a strait 90 ft/lbs like our paper instructions say.
What are the torque on the camshaft cap on the 04 5.4 3V?
After reading these comments I’m extremely concerned for purchasing this set.. does anyone have a good experience with the cloyes set?
do the timing chains have some play on some angles, when I rotate the engine to verify chain operation. I noticed on some rotations, the chain has play. before releasing tensioners I made sure slack was on tensioner side. Could this be a sign of worn cams as you stated?
It sounds like what you are describing is normal. As the camshafts turn valves are being opened and closed on both banks. As the engine is rotated by hand the camshafts will try to jump forward as valves close. This shifts the chain slack around, and since the tensioners are not primed with oil it will cause some slack. Once the tensioners get some oil pressure, and as the engine rotates faster, what you are seeing will stabilize.
Pls my engine is making a shorting sound after opening the timing, what could be the problem
Would it matter if you put the double links on crank sprocket and single on cam sprocket.
The number of links is the same in-between
The mark on the cam phaser is in between two teeth and the mark on the crank is on the tooth, so you would not be able to align it that way. But to your point, it does not matter as long as there are an equal number of links between the cam and crank marks on both sides.
Can a lose/stretched chain cause fuel trims on one side to stay high (+20-+30%) idle up to 3000RPM? Been chasing this problem for a year. Will always misfire on cold start and clean up at running temp. It also stumbles bit at highway speeds under light acceleration.
Phil the misfire under light acceleration at highway speeds in more then likely your spark plugs/coils. It’s common on these engines to experience a shutter like misfire at light acceleration at higher speed. As far as the fuel trims you are describing it sounds like a vacuum or false air leak. See if when you press the accelerator a bit see if the short term fuel trim goes down. If it does you have a vacuum leak, pcv issue or faulty mass air flow.
What happens if you get right tensioner on the left side and left side on the right which I think I did. No problems as of yet. Do I need to go back in and change them around?
No your good
What gaskets are needed in order to do this job? Valve cover? Intake Manifold? Timing Cover? Or are they reusable? I want to make sure I have everything I need before I tear the engine down.
Valve cover gaskets and a timing cover gasket kit should be all you need. Make sure the timing cover kit comes with a new water pump gasket and crank seal.
Anyone know the cost to replace a timing chain on a f150 2002.. at a mechanic shop?? 4.6L V8 supercrew..
I'm replacing just the Cloyes tentioners due to morning rattle. Thinking of not removing the valve covers, just loosen them. ?
You have to remove the front timing cover . You can't even get to them with removing it. I had a bad rattle too last week and tore mine down and it was a stuck roller follower and messed my can lobe up. So I'm doing a total timming/cam rebuild.
Hello i was curious why you temoved the cam phasers if they are not replaced? Im having trouble finding just the bolts for cam phaser to replace for mine. Thanks in advance!
If you have no plans to replace the phasers, then you do not need to remove them. If you do need to remove them, we do sell the bolts separately. Part number VCB100 is the bolt.
Great, clear video instructions. But, do you have any suggestions for a 2004 Lincoln Navigator 5.4L DOHC 4V ? Broken timing chain led to blocked filter so no oil got in. Installed new head and timing chains per video. Have compression in passenger side, but low/no compression on driver's side, so no start. What a bear. Just thought I would run that by you to see if you have a suggestion. Thought it might be a cam out of position, but can't find specs on how to check to find out and position. Doubt I am making much sense due to having worked on it for several days to try to figure out what I am missing.
You need to make sure the secondary chains are timed properly. The secondary chains have 2 marked links that align to the dots on the secondary sprockets.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks. Will double check that.
mexico . aguascalientes is factori
For the metal tensioners, is there need for a gasket? Silicone? Or install metal to metal? These are Cloyes from Oreillies. Thanks
No need for a gasket. Do not use silicone! Silicone can clog the tensioner oil check valve. Just install metal to metal, both surfaces are machined.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. so you have metal and plastic tensioners? Or just metal I might be doing this soon And was big in the idea of the Melling tensioners I heard they are metal and don’t need a rubber o ring and are sturdier ? My mechanic uses your sets with ford phasers I also want to do the Melling hv oil pump at the same time Trying to narrow down the tensioners
On ford expedition changed timing chain and sprocket after that the the sprocket is spinning but the cam is not which cause sound and right side 4 cylinders are not working any idea??
The dowel on the sprocket should index into the camshaft, then the bolt clamps the sprocket to the shaft. It sounds like the sprocket dowel may be damaged.
When I removed my timing chains, the cams were under tension and moved... Does this matter if I am removing cams and roller followers before I time it??
It does not matter. The cams are under valve spring pressure and will move slightly to a position where all the valves are closed. When reinstalling the timing chains you will have to align the phasers to the marked links of the chains. To do this you will need to rotate the cams back, or move the crank slightly to compensate. Just make sure the marks are aligned when you are finished and it will be correct.
Everyone says the Cloyes phasers are junk.. how can they be that bad.. I thought Cloyes had a pretty good reputation
Hello. Very good video. My son and I decided to replace the followers, lash adjusters and passenger side phaser on his 06 F150. We did not use the wedge to support the chain, choosing to instead use a bungee cord. When we reassembled the engine, the notch and slot on the cam / phaser were about 1 tooth off. I thought that maybe the cam rotated. I loosened the cam and realigned according to our painted alignment . We reassembled the engine. Ran great at idle, but rough in gear. Threw a p0016 code. I figure i slipped the timing chain one notch? Can you help us? Can i just rotate the phaser/cam 1 tooth? Any advise would help so much. The shop just wants to charge us 1600 to pull it all apart and replace everything .
Sounds like you are going to need to pull the timing cover off and confirm timing on that bank. Once the cover is off it will be easy to check if the bank is in time or not. There should be an equal number of links on both sides from the crank sprocket mark to the mark on the cam phaser. Without that visual confirmation you would simply be guessing.
Yes sir. I took it to Ford and they hooked it up to their computer and told me that the right bank is 30 degrees advanced. Not sure what to do with that, so i will likely have to pull the cover.
Hello again. I removed the timing cover and chain guides. I however did not follow your video.....mistake. My keyway is not at 6 oclock. I can easily remove the cams, and align the proper teeth on the R/L phasers. I would gladly pay for your phone advice via paypal. I cannot understand why you pulled certain rockers (to make neutral) if you were going to pull the cams anyway. I could sure use some advice. I do not want to bang valves into pistons. Jerry
@@jerryvanover5710 You can call our tech line at 479-646-1662 ext 228, no paypal necessary. You should not need to pull any camshafts or rockers, no matter where the engine is at.
Do
You guys happen to have a video on a dual OHC 5.4 5.8?
Unfortunately we do not.
Thank you sir plz uplude video foard tauras timing
The marks was off in the video?
The passenger cam rotated almost 1/4 turn counterclockwise to rest. I turned it back so the chain links align with the mark with the phaser, but the cam is in the middle of a rotation. I had to hold it in place with the wrench while putting the chain on. All the marks line up, but I'm worried that the timing is still off because the cam was not at rest when I put the chain on. Should I take the chains off and rotate the crank?
Nope, if the links lined up with the marks on the sprocket then you are in time. Instead of rotating the cam back, you could have rotated the crank to a spot that allowed for alignment, but there is nothing wrong with how you did it.
How'd is the engine now Bradley?
@@texanbalaban6777 I wanna know too.
How do I get certified on vvt timing.
i have a quick question. i just put the chains back on my 5.4,. its timed correctly and the chain marks are right. i have to put the roller followers back on so can i rotate the crank shaft because you cant compress a valve when a piston is top dead center or do i have to leave the crank alone no matter what?
With or without the roller followers, it is safe to rotate the engine to whichever necessary position so long as the chains are installed and the engine is in time. The valves will not be open with the followers off. If the engine is properly timed there will be no contact with the followers installed.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. (Aftermarket) that is sooo relieving to hear since i already installed them doing that. Thank you for replying to my question!
What material are made those black chain guides that break so easy, could them be made from some more flexible material like nylon or teflon?.
They are made of injection molded PA66 nylon, the same material Ford used. In some applications Teflon is added for additional wear prevention. The guides could be made stronger, but that comes at the expense of increased friction and wear.
@@Cloyes01 But they looks and break like bakelite. Why using the same material as ford?. Better have to improve them. About friction, heat and wear teflon is the best.
@@Cloyes01 By the way, I'll follow your directions on this video to change chain, guides and sprockets, also doing oil & water pump, spark plugs ( without breaking any, just I left 2 days with pb blaster soacking them and slowly back an forth). Thanks for posting this helpful video!.
lo quiero en español GRACIAS
I am installing timing chains and components on my 5.4 . Got the the timing chain cover off and discovered that the black links on the timing chains do not line up with marks on cam phasers? but the truck ran smooth? so dont think it was out of time. So naturaly the links on my new chains do not line up either. Just wondering where to go from here.
As soon as the engine runs the marks will be off, so what you're seeing is perfectly normal. If you rotate the crank by hand enough times, you'll see that the marks eventually line back up with the timing indicators.
@@Four_Eyes so im good to install the chains on the phasers where the are located now with my crank in the right position?
What's the torque on the valve cover bolts? For 04 5.4 3v v8?
89 inch pounds, or about 7.5 foot pounds.
In your video at approximately 2:09, the cam phrasers are at 12 o'clock. So do I have to make sure the #1 is at TDC? Or its automatically TDC at 12 o'clock???🤔🤔
You don't need to worry about TDC while timing this engine. If the crank keyway is up, and the marks on the phasers are up, then you are good to install the chains. I am not sure where the pistons are at this point, but it doesn't matter. The chains set the timing, if both chains' marked links are aligned to the sprocket marks properly then you are in time.
@@Cloyes01 okay thanks alot!!! 💪
Is this the same procedure for a 4 valve engine?
Yes, this same procedure is used on the primary system of a 4 valve engine.
any idea why both my new phazers have R AND L ON each OF EM
The phasers are the same part for the left and right banks. When installing on the right bank, you will use the timing mark that is labeled by the "R". And the left bank uses the "L" labeled timing mark.
I have a question I've taken a 5.4 2 valve out of my service truck and the sold me a 5.4 3 valve said it would work_others say it want but this guy I bought it from said u can get it n time and see were my notch on the cam gear that reads the cam sensor=same to the 5 .3 bc the 5.3 has like 6 notches on front of the cam gear he said after u get it n time find were my notch is and match them up and grind all the notches off except the one that lines up with the 5.2 and it will run perfect can anyone of u experts help me pls thanks!!!!????
Can I speak with an expert pls
after everything is in places, and time , when I rotate the engine the right timing has play Why?
Did you ever figure this issue out? Or did you just run it like that?
Anyone ever use this set ? Without phaser failure?
The camshaft on my truck only have the L arrow on both sides right and left?
Remove your roller followers, time the engine, then out them back in. It sounds like you are very out of time
If I am not mistaken in your case you’re going to have have the dash (|) mark instead of the R on the right bank and the L on the left side of the bank facing up with the crank @ 12:00 position when you are all lined up. I know this is probably not useful to you anymore but I’m sure someone else is going to run into this. I hope this helps.
Is no cam holder or followers removal required ?
Follower removal is not required but we do recommend using the sprocket holder to tighten the camshaft sprocket bolts if you are replacing them.
I have the 2v version on this engine and I made the mistake of aligning the keyway on the crankshaft to the TDC mark but the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets are not where they should be (11 and 1 o clock i believe) and I have already taken the timing chains off. Can you tell me what I can do to fix this?
Look online how the lobes on the cams are supposed to look. The crank shaft key is what sets the timing
@@jrvera7955 Is it safe to rotate my camshaft sprockets with the crankshaft at TDC?
Rotate the crankshaft to a position where all the pistons are down in the cylinders at least a little. Then rotate the camshafts to position them correctly. Once the cams are good you can rotate the crank back so the key is at 12 o'clock.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks a lot! Im doing a full head gasket replacement so I think I can rotate the cams to the right spot while the heads are off and then reassemble with the crankshaft at TDC.
@@LWilson That will work great!
I’m just bummed out my valve covers didn’t make that fairy noise and disappear very misleading
It would be nice to just snap your fingers and have valve covers and timing cove roff....lol
Is there some other aftermarket parts we can use besides FORD OEM ? Can't really afford 900 for the kit
We are hoping you would buy ours. The Cloyes kit is part number 9-0391SB.
@Charles Ball
www.modularmotorsportsracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_7_56&products_id=1052
@Charles Ball $417 after shipping. Wear strips around $60 the guy told me off top of head over phone yesterday. I let Ya know how noisy they are in a few days 👍
@Charles Ball first set included, replacement set cost is around $60 for next timing job about 160,000 from now hehe
Are these Phasers oem? My kit xam with phasers. 9-0391sbvvt
Update: never mind, they were garbage right out of the box. Nothing better than learning the hard way. Claiming they perform better than oem is a fraud. “VVT actuators are naturally part of the timing system and it only makes sense for Cloyes to offer high-quality, aftermarket VVT system components that work with our current timing system product offerings,” said Jason Thompson, vice president of engineering and product development for Cloyes. “Our expertise in modern timing systems, combined with our manufacturing and quality standards, resulted in Cloyes developing VVT actuators that work as good as or better than OE units and will withstand abuse in the most demanding applications.”
Using a 32 mm socket and breaker bar on the crank is way easier to use than trying to turn the crank with the harmonic balancer.
Really need to mention that there are left and right tensioner guides ....They physically fit BUT will make one of the chains very tight if installed wrong...
yea i did that and it fuckin broke almost exactly a year later (bout two weeks ago) and blew a hole in my valve cover because of all the chain slack..... but she ran good af till i noticed just a lil rough idle.Probably due to have no oil
In a video i watched the guy put the first chain link mark one tooth forward and the second chan link mark right on the dot of the crank sprocket so i followed it did i do this wrong?
The chain will have two marked links in a row that will go on either side of the cam sprocket mark, then the single marked will align to the crankshaft sprocket mark. If you did anything other than that the timing will be incorrect.
*Should have changed the old oil pump at the time also!*
Change the oil pump now that you are in their
Fred Stone, Melling M360 or their latest "High Volume" oil pump Melling M360HV. Good times 😢
So i did everything you showed and said but bank 2 is two degrees off and runs like crap.So can you tell what i did wrong?
I don't believe 2 degrees is enough to make one run noticeably poorly. One tooth off on a cam sprocket will affect it by over 8 degrees, and about 17 degrees if you are off a tooth on the crank sprocket. Sound like you may have a VVT system component issue or something non-timing related.
Okay so i keep getting a p0345 and a p0349 code bank 2?
@@ricksherow6422 Did you get that sorted? I just bought this kit to replace the phasers and timing setup on my 2005 F150 5.4L 3V. I was throwing 0345 and 0349 previously, and am about ready to pull the valve covers and front cover.
I just did my timing and oil pump when I removed my old chains I marked everything. So when I reinstalled the chains the right side phasher R was not center over the 2 colored links does that mean my timing was one tooth off to begain with the motor runs but it's missfiring
Well it means that it is one tooth off now. When you removed the chains it is likely that the crankshaft or the camshaft moved slightly. When reinstalling it is accentual to make sure the colored chain links are aligned properly, if not you need to rotate a shaft so they do align.
no i had cams locked down i marked the old chains and thats were it was. a few months back i was driving home and it just started missing real bad and wouldn't go over 20 so i parked it towed home. i found broken chain guides. so while i was driving it had to jump time cuz thats were the old chain was. i thought to change it to line up but was worried didnt want to bend a valve. so now i can just pull that valve cover get the block of cheeses to hold the chain tension on bottom and i can turn the cam a little and ill be all good correct
sorry its still mario just on a friends computer reading about my truck but thank you for responding
Yes, that is correct. If both the crank mark and cam mark are aligned to the colored links of the chain then it will be right.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. (Aftermarket) I have another question when I took everything back apart. How come my timing marks won't line back up. I ran the motor for a min. I have rotated the motor many times and the 2 links never line back up why
So your tensioners are better than the oem upgraded ones?
Cloyes made improvements to the sealing surface and gasket of these tensioners. These improvements are exclusive to Cloyes.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. I installed this kit and I have chain slapping, your tensioners are no good
@@jrvera7955 Did your engine have chain instability before you installed our kit? "Slapping" can be caused by VVT system issues and/or oil pressure issues as well.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. On 07 5.4L timing chain kit,Does it include Ford phasers or buy oem equals with your kit
I followed the instructions and passengers side cam rotated a quarter turn
No problem. Just keep following the video, When reinstalling the chain you will either rotate the cam back or rotate the crank so the marks align. As long as the sprocket marks and marked links are aligned when you are finished the engine will be in time.
timing dot goes at 6am dot to dot is 30 links
6 AM off 6 PM?
how come the cams dont slip when you remove the chains??
ok cool... Also just to make sure, so then its not really necessary to place the #1 piston to TDC? just as long as the crank key way is at 12 oclock and the timing marks on the phasers are pointing up then It should be a breeze?
thanks for the reply.
@@Cloyes01 which is what? you mentioned the keyway at 12, but now are saying there are two positions. So is it keyway at 12 for right and then a different for left?
@@justinwalker3617 That comment was not correct for this application, sorry for the confusion. That was speaking to GM 3.6L disassembly, not sure what happened there.
Both banks can be disassembled with the crank at 12 o'clock on Ford mod engines. The cams may move slightly one way or the other when the chain is removed. If they do move, you can slightly rotate the crank like we show in the video during assembly.
Do i have to remove engine to do this ?
no you can do it in car
I have a 99 Expedition 5.4L. Does it have a phaser, is there a sequence to remove the roller followers, and lastly should the crankshaft be in a certain position (i.e. 11:00 or 6:00) when I take off the roller followers like we do in an '04-'10 Expedition? Thank you.
Cam phasers were not introduced in the modular engines until the 2004 3 valve engines. Roller follower removal is not necessary for chain replacement, the procedure in the video will still work great for your 99 model.
@@Cloyes01 I'm actually doing a head gasket job. Sorry I wasn't more specific earlier. I'm guessing my 99 expedition 5.4 has roller followers. If so do I need to put the crankshaft and camshaft sprokets in certain positions before removing the roller followers and what sequence please? Do you have a similar video for a 99 expedition? Thanks for your reply.
@@renejacques8288 I would recommend putting the shafts in the positions shown on the video. This will make setting the timing easier once the heads go back on. I do not have any information on the followers. Removal order should not matter, but there is likely an installation sequence you need to follow.
Rene Jacques you might need to just grab a manual and learn
6 oclock
So what if the passenger (r) side camshaft has moved to where the (R) is almost 1 o'clock but the driver(l) camshaft is in the correct position
Just rotate the passenger side camshaft back to the proper position. Rotate it slowly and carefully to ensure not to damage any valves. If there is interference with a piston before you can position the cam properly, you will need to move the crankshaft to a position where the pistons on the passenger side are down. Once you get the cam positioned properly move the crank back to the proper position.
@@Cloyes01 so put the chain on the passenger side phaser and turn the crank or leave it off and turn the cam? And if I need to turn the cam what is the easiest way
@@williamdavis7535 Leave the chain off and position the camshaft properly, then put the chain on. If the phaser bolt is tight use it to rotate the camshaft.
@@Cloyes01 I just finished the job and got everything back together and it idles great but as soon as I put it in gear it tries to die and if I hit the gas real fast it does die and if I hit the gas to the floor in park it revs to about 3000 and then acts like it has a rev limiter and wont rev any higher...HELP
davis sounds like what happened to me when my spark plugs fouled and melted a catalytic converter 🙄
any bad experiences out there running Cloyes timing components on a 5.4?
So far so good. From under the hood auto garage. Here in Wilmington, De. I'm a faithful believer, I've been using Cloyes components since 2015. Mostly on the notorious 5.4 triton engines... And to this day I have yet to see a come back due to any of those components failing. Hope it helped you.
@@AngelFlores-gl5ie even the phasers? Thanks for the reply btw 🍻
Yes 3 years ago I replaced my entire system with cloyes components... Thought everything was fine until I cracked open my timing cover to pull the heads off due to multiple studs being snapped flush with the head when replacing the exhaust manifolds only to find fragments of my chain guides or what was left of them just laying in the bottom of the cover. Apparently this is a widespread issue with aftermarket timing components for the 5.4L 3v. Go OEM, sure it costs more but fuck doin this twice. I know I'm regretting it.
@@xsucmyunitx4674 bummer man :(. I just did my full timing set with all ford components last weekend and glad I didn't roll the dice with the aftermarket. The whole thing start to finish was a 16hr job and I'd hate to do it again.
Do y'all make a whole kit phasers and all
Yes, part number 9-0391SBVVT comes with the timing components and the phasers.
@@Cloyes01 Is it possible to just move each cam forward one tooth. And if so, do both cams rotate inward toward the center of the motor.??? I moved the cam forward one tooth on my 87 Honda crx and it went from 48 mpg to 52 mpg and it had so much more torque. So I want to do the same thing on my 2002 F150 5.4L 2V so I can get better gas mileage.
@@conniealldis It is possible, but I am not sure if you will get the desired results. One tooth on those cam sprockets is about 8.5 degrees of camshaft timing. (42 teeth divided by 360 degrees = 8.57) That is a large swing of timing, and this is an interference engine. I doubt that is enough to cause interference, but you will want to make sure.
@@Cloyes01 My dad did it on my 87 Honda CRX. He moved it forward just one tooth and it went from 48mpg to 52 mpg and gained a quite a bit of torque, as in it would torque steer when you stepped on it after that. I am hoping if I replicate that on my 2002 F150 5.4l v8 that it will go from 15 to 19 or 20mpg. I mean the 2003 or 2004 have cam phasers right? So wouldn't just moving the cams forward one tooth be doing the same thing?
@@Cloyes01how much for kit
Cody do you have a video torquing the cylinder heads on a 5.4
No. We just specialize on the timing components.
Ok thank you by the way this video helped me a lot
Why in workshop does it have you remove the followers?
The follower removal procedure was written by Ford to use when replacing camshaft phasers without removing the timing cover. It prevents the camshafts from having any valve spring pressure that may try to rotate the cams when the chain is removed. If you are removing the timing cover for a complete service then that procedure is unnecessary. Any slight rotations of the shafts can be counteracted when installing new chains because all timing marks are visible.
Not true. You still want to remove the roller followers one slight move and that fucking cam is jacking all over the place.
This is a interference motor! You must remove the roller followers before you remover the timing chains@@GreaseMonkey-zm2ex
No upgrades on the oil pump?
We do not sell oil pumps, so we didn't focus on that during the video. We do highly recommend installing a good quality pump while you are doing this job.
So now I'm really confused...I just watched 3 hour four part video series that stated 1st position crank 12 O'clock remove 3 followers on each side to neutralize cam. Then another resting point keyway @ 6 O'CLOCK then lastly keyway @ 11 O'clock with OTC tool. So I'm clear...since I'm taking front cover off I just need to make sure the L & R phasers are up the cam won't turn while performing the replacement of chain & phasers, etc...
That is correct. With the front timing cover off, it is not necessary to remove rocker followers or do any rotating of the engine. Just make sure that the proper timing marks are up before chain removal. As we show in the video, slight adjustments can be made to the crankshaft to get the marks realigned during installation if the camshafts happen to slightly move.
im about to remove a set of chains on a 5.4 3 valve, 06' just so as i am 100% clear, I do not haveto remove the followers?
i watched those same videos, and here he does it in 10 minutes. also confused if i have to remove the followers
cory thomas did you remove the roller followers?
I followed this instruction step by step. When I unbolted the passenger side tensioner the damn cam phaser rolled ccw. The marks on the chain are still aligned with the mark on the phaser.....theyre only about maybe an eighth of a turn ccw out of position. What the hell did I miss?
This is OK. The chains set the timing so once the new chains are on just make sure all the chain and sprocket marks are aligned. If needed when reassembling, you can slightly rotate the crankshaft to make the marks align on the cam sprockets align with the chains. The exact positions of the shafts don't matter, just that the chain marks are aligned properly to the sprockets.
Ron Gillespie that’s what I’m trying to figure out before I start the job. Shouldn’t the 3 followers on each side be removed so the cam is at a neutral position, that way it doesn’t jerk one way
Cloyes tensioners have cost my shop thousands in warranty repairs. Buy oem
How do you know the difference between a 5.4.....2 valve and a 5.4
2 Valves were used until about 2003 and do not have VVT, 3 valves were used from 2004 and up and are equipped with VVT.
@@Cloyes01 whats the part number for the 5.4 2v
@@angelarmendariz8844 It depends on the year. Please use our parts lookup at cloyes.com to find the correct kit.
How come my timing marks won't line back up. I rotated the motor so many times and the 2 links never line back up wear I put them why
The colored chain links will realign eventually, however it may take over 100 revolutions before it does.
Phasers are out grab a 15 mill socket and line them up the install you tensioners
I’m so confused fordtecmakeuloco has a 4 part video showing this entire job in detail and clearly shows removing roller followers. Can anyone that has done this job successfully please comment if this video is correct. Also with some research I’ve see these tensioners blow out quick around 10k miles any info would be greatly appreciated.
Roller follower removal is only necessary when replacing the camshaft phasers without removing the front timing cover and chains. Ford published a set of instructions for this process which required a special wedge tool and the removal of the followers to keep the camshaft at rest during the process. This sequence was adopted by all the repair sites like AllData for any timing service, but it is simply not necessary when pulling the timing cover off and replacing all the components. Removal of the followers will keep the camshaft at rest and may make the job easier, but as we show in the video the crankshaft can be turned slightly to make up for small movements in the camshafts. As long as the marked chain links and the sprocket marks are lined up properly the engine will be in time.
The OE and subsequent aftermarket designs of chain tensioners in this application have had their issues. Sealing gasket/O-Rings were known to fail due to questionable materials and casting features. The current redesigned Cloyes version of these tensioners are exclusive to Cloyes and have addressed all the original failure points. We have not had any issues with the quality of these tensioners. I hope others comment with their experience. If you prefer the earlier style cast iron tensioners we still offer those as well, part numbers 9-5338 and 9-5339. The cast tensioners will work on 3-valve heads in place of the nylon bodied units.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. I just paid for the complete timing job details from ALLDATA as you mentioned and they clearly state put crank key way at 12:00 then remove 3 certain roller followers on each bank after that set crank key way to the 6:00 position then you can proceed to remove timing components. So what your saying this info is wrong ? I would much rather be confident in the process and rest assured that it’s done correctly
@@jerrycremeans2865 Yes, that is exactly what our last comment addressed. Their procedure isn't necessarily wrong, because it is still going to work in the end, they just add a handful of unnecessary steps that are only required when replacing phasers with the timing cover on.
This dude is correct, I just did this job. Didn't touch a follwer at all. Fordtechmakeuloco is following the ford process by the book. This way is quicker and less intrusive.
As soon as I un bolted the passenger side tensioner the cam/phaser rolled ccw about an eighth of a turn when the chain jumped the crank sproket. You seemed to have skipped something in your video cause I did EXACTLY as the guy did and the chain jumped the crank sproket, rolling the cam out of timing! Is it possible to regain the timing on the passenger side without affecting the driver side, cause it's STILL in timing.
Crank sprocket out of elinement after you put chain on should be at 6 o'clock looks like 7
He put the key at 12 o'clock not at 11 in this position I think the cam is in neutral position.
Yeah i dont think im buying any more cloyes
Dude what's your deal. This method works
Worst video ever ..he should actually get a job that requires a wrench in his hand...these corporate boys dont have a clue
Did you not time that?
My truck is out of time
I have another question for you I have changed the timing chains oil pump tensioners cam phasers just about everything what are the engine runs and idles really well soon as I throw it and drive it starts to misfire seems like a random misfire like the timing but the timing is correct I have compression I'm trying to figure out what else it can be I'm leaning towards a computer problem everything else is already passed or been changed do you have any thoughts it's only when the engine is under a load that it starts to miss fire
@Steven Michael coil spark plugs VCT solenoids cam sensors were all my first things to change then I did the timing oil pump cam phasers and it still misfiring under a load it runs perfectly at an idle
@Steven Michael I'm usually really good at this and I always figure it out but this one has been really messing with my brain I'm thinking is the computer something going on bad with the wiring harness I had a Ford Crown Vic pretty much the same motor and the computer kept telling number 3 injector to spit constantly and I had straight raw fuel coming out my exhaust so the computers plays a big part in the timing and firing order
I remember reading somewhere maybe an Amazon review for this kit. A guy did something like going 65mph and letting off the gas and not touching it to a certain mph. This procedure supposedly resets something. Sorry for being so vague. But I'm sure with a little research you can find what I'm talking about
@@mariobombin219 reset the pcm by disconnecting negative from battery then jump just negative battery cable, while off post, to positive cable (while on positive post), keep jumper connected about 10 seconds to drain capacitors in pcm, then will have to relearn and start fresh
Check injectors
Make sure cats aren't clogged
@@texanbalaban6777 really I never herd that i know taking the battery off will shut eng light off. but never herd thats how to reflash it
Are you 100% SURE that the followers don't need to be removed??? I'd hate for the cam to rotate and bend a valve. I was thinking just to be safe, I'll clamp the cams in place with a pair of vice grips.
I can already see that the cams want to rotate CCW when I remove tension.
The crank key is at 12 o'clock.
The RH cam mark is at 1 o'clock(ish).
The LH cam mark is at 12 o'clock. (That's using the cam centerline as the 12 o'clock point)
Am I safe to proceed?? 😆
Thanks ⚙️ Cloyes!!!
Yeah, if you are removing the timing cover then there is no reason to remove the followers. If a camshaft does move, it will only move in the direction to close a valve, so there is no risk of piston-to-valve contact. You are safe to proceed. Just make sure all your sprocket and chain marks align upon reassembly and you have nothing to worry about.
@Cloyes01
Awesome!!
That's what I thought.
If a cam does move, it will be minimal... and I can just gently turn it back in place to match the marks on the chain. As long as the dowel is engaged in the camshaft, I should be able to manipulate it to align the marks and everything still be in time.
Man... that "other video" will make you go around your asshole to reach your elbow!! 🤣
Thanks again, ⚙️ Cloyes!!! 👍
At what point in time are the cams secured/ roller followers removed so the cams don’t rotate? How are you explaining how to do this job without talking about the most important step.
IWORKYOUWATCH you secure them with a locking plyers when the key way at the crank is at the 11oclock and the L is facing upward on the left side and the R is facing upwards on the right side
Securing the cams and removing the roller followers is not required when removing the timing cover. Camshaft rotation is minimal when the chains are removed. Any rotation of the cams can be easily compensated for by slightly rotating the crank using the balancer when reinstalling the chains. The chain marks 100% set the timing, so if your marks are all aligned there is nothing that you can do incorrectly. Even if you remove the followers you will likely need to make small adjustments to the crank when installing the new chains. Your crank key may end up anywhere between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, but that is OK if all the marks are aligned properly.
The roller follower removal was a process written by Ford for replacing the cam phasers without removing the timing cover. Repair publications adopted the process for all timing related repairs, but they simply missed the point of the process.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. I use vise grips on the cam even though is not recommended but if you don’t remove the followers and you have the timing marks set up where they are suppose to be the cams will move a great amount
It's just a timing chain replacement, and the chain is marked for interface/interval. The entire purpose of this, is to avoid issues with camshaft rotation. If you followed the instructions in the video, you'll be fine.
@Tile Setter 191 - RIGHT! Ford's design makes this about as thoughtless as it can be... and with timing marks on the chain, you honestly can't screw it up if you're paying attention (some idiot will prove me wrong... but the exception proves the rule).
what about the cam followers if some one dose not do that step could have bent valves
Cam follower removal is not required when you are pulling the front engine cover as we do in this video. There is no need to rotate the engine during the procedure, so there is no possibility of piston to valve contact. The cam follower removal step found in most repair manuals was intended for cam phaser replacement without removing the front cover. The camshaft followers are removed and the engine is rotated to a position where the camshaft is under no valve spring pressures, this guarantees the camshafts will not move and the new cam phasers will realign perfectly with the old chains. With the front cover on and the special Ford timing chain locking tool installed, crankshaft rotation is not recommended so it is vital the camshafts do not move. Because this is a timing chain replacement video, the front cover will always be removed, and as we show you slight movements in the crankshaft can be made to realign the timing marks upon assembly. The intended purpose of these videos is to provide the easiest method of replacement, and to clear up any misleading or conflicting information that is out there. Thanks for commenting!
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. (Aftermarket) I have cloyes timing chains for a 2v 5.4l 2003. Does the double dark chain links line up with the cam timing mark as well? My old chains only had 2 copper links. Coyles has 3 but I was unsure if the single dark link lines up with the crank or the cam.
The two sequential marked links straddle the appropriate mark on the camshaft phasers. The single marked link will align to the crankshaft sprockets timing mark.
Jason Dority
Have you done this job? This is the first time I've heard not removing followers...is it possible?
Luke D I have never done it like that. as long as the cams don't move should be fine next one I might try it ... let me know if you do
The problem with the overhead cam engine's is the steel cam shaft is mated to the aluminum head. There is no steel bearing like the old overhead valve motor's. It shows in the video what can happen if not properly maintained, the oil journal's get obstructed and it starts chewing the assembly up to where it gets slop in it, then the head is no good. I wouldn't use lower than 10w 30 or 10w40 in them, I don't care what ford say's. Chevy=the same thing, Chrysler=the same thing. 2009 to 2010 was the end of the overhead valve engines so Ford, Chevy and Chrysler all have the same style junk. Definately not worth what you pay for it.
How much should a be charged for this job? My mechanic wants $700 plus $400 for parts.
That seems very reasonable. Most shops are going to quote more than that. This isn't a difficult job, but it is very time consuming.
Oh okay thank you for responding. I really I'm happy because now i know what to do with our truck. Thank you!
I came up with my own reliable procedure for installing the cam followers on a 5.4 3v. 1st time I had to work on one, I realized no one had made a necessary tool, and my method cannot bend a valve, no follower is ever installed at TDC & I can prove it cylinder by cylinder.
Installing the followers with that OTC spring compressor tool is a total waste of time, unreliable, and will drop your valve retainers off the stem the 1 time u aren't looking right at it or cant see it.. or in my case, breaks off at the top, valve fell down into the cylinder.. ridiculous. Oh, and no cams "popping" their way around at all doing it my way.
WHAT IS YOUR METHOD?
Just got my cloyes kit from rock auto says made in china all over it. Was under the impression that these were us made. But boy was i wrong
We are manufacturing the majority of the kit's cost in China on this application, therefore it gets the Made in China label. We are an American company, and do all our development, analysis, inspections, and kitting here in Arkansas. We even manufacture gears and sprockets here for our high performance products, some OE replacement applications, and OEM customers. Even though we do manufacture products oversees too, when you buy our product you are getting exclusive Cloyes product. We invest in tooling and work with strategic partners, most of whom are OE manufacturers, to manufacture components to OEM quality specs. We do not just buy cheap available product and put it in a box, there is a difference.
I hope you will give our product a chance, and please let us know if you have any issues.
What is not made there?.
I wished to know where the ford autocrap branded ones are made. So, I found this:
www.autonews.com/article/20051205/SUB/51202050/ford-sources-aftermarket-parts-from-china
houmach it cost .theat..
B6h
I DONT GET HOW U SET THE CRANK SHAFT SETTING-NO DETAIL.COM
With the crankshaft key around the 12 o'clock position, the single marked link of each chain will align to the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket face at around 7 o'clock.
THANKS I DID TRY THE 11 O'CLOCK AND 6 O'CLOCK POSITION ITS START BUT STALL THAN STOP RUNNING THANKS 4 YOUR HELP
6 oclock
@@Cloyes01 Thats bullshit
Using manufacturer specified engine oil ..? BULLSHIT...many engine builders specify 5w-30 or 0w-30 instead of 5w-20 after 10,000 miles or so.
I don't understand one thing on this video. Since these are interference fit engines you are supposed to install the cam lock tools on both l and r hand cams then remove the sprocket on the cams and remove all the components for the timing chain. You did not show that
The special tools are not necessary when following this procedure. The chain sets the timing, the camshafts do not need to be in any exact location.
@@Cloyes01 Interesting I guess having the variable timing makes a difference. I am in the process right now installing one of your gear and chain set on a 4.6 2 valve on a 03 crown vic cop car. I put in all new Motor Craft components in it about 45000 mile ago the chain started rattling a while back and then got really bad . I had to tear it down found one of the seals on one of the tensioner blew out on the corner I don't know why? A master tech at the Ford dealer suggested I install a new oil pump I am glad I did . I found out about the stupid design Ford did with the oil gauge I thought all along I had good oil pressure found out it doesn't read oil pressure just a stupid switch that reads half on the oil gauge all the time . If you got 5 pounds of oil pressure still shows you are good until you blow the engine up. Who is the stupid dip shit that designs this shit anyway. I went back to the tech yesterday my guides are all good I told him I think I might have a bad oil pump he suggested that I pull the caps on the cam and check the journals if its scored I had bad oil pressure. So when I get it put back together today I am going to pull the caps . I got the oil pump installed that is scary because the pick up tube bolts can fall in the pan I was shitting my pants yesterday . Had to take out the bolts and put them in with a pair of needle nose pliers . Yeah good times !
and you will be redoing this whole process again because you didn't change the oil pump which is the main culprit for all the problems
The timing tensioner gaskets blowing out is the main cause of the concern, the pump is usually just fine. The tensioner dumps oil pressure and starves the heads.
Amen
Your fake twin was checking you out.
Just bought a timing kit and got it home and looked on the box and this is made in china wtf ?