It seemed to be implied that Vegeta was on par with 18. Problem was the ki and stamina drain on his body. She outlasted him. Dragon Ball was so much more interesting when Vegeta, Gohan, Goku and Piccolo took turns being strongest.
@Adrian Scott Yeah. While it wasn't completely one sided, he couldn't touch her after burning so much ki/stamina. Vegeta mentioned Kamicollo that rivals 17/18 was far stronger than himself as a SSJ.
18 was stronger and im a vegeta fan. but yes the stamina was a big factor cause vegeta was more experienced in battle if it wasnt for the stamina he may have managed to win but she was advantaged in every other way
I just finished rewatching this part in the anime(OG dub) and its mentioned that 18 was toying with him. Vegeta seemed to have been much weaker than her.
@@Grosvenor77 vegeta was just thinking out loud when he said that, she was messing around but vegeta could've found a way to win if he had longer stamina at the time of their fight.
@@queenofdarkness3341 I don't think so. I think Vegeta was a bit stronger but 18 had info about Vegeta and knew how Vegeta fought. "Know your enemy and know yourself". Of course she also had unlimited stamina. I recall Vegeta landed a punch or two and she was like....she should be more careful and she decided to troll him and make him burn himself out after that swipe for the knock out. Anyway..I think everybody are confused because everybody watched their own version of Dub or some only read the Manga.
If Buu and Cell couldn't regenerate then Vegeta would have actually killed both of them. I think that's worth mentioning when considering how tough they were. Regeneration is kind of a cheat code.
@@MakingGainz Perfect Cell was nearly obliterated by Final Flash when he tried to tank it. Then he regenerated. He even says "oh shit" before the blast lands - TFS literally pays homage to that line. Cell only had half his body blasted by a fully charged Final Flash because he moved out the way slightly, last minute.
@@MakingGainz Irrelevant, he still would have killed them if they couldn't regen, which by the way for Cell it doesn't even make fucking sense. Piccolo can't just regenerate a massive chunk of his torso or literally regenerate half of his body, so him saying he got his regeneration from Piccolo just doesn't even add up.
@UE5 Project Storm there's a fan manga of dragonball by callmearj called dragonball super VE it's about vegetas father coming back to life again and i think you'll like it
I said this back in 2017 when people pretended to be unhappy just so they could bitch back then; It's very realistic for one to describe something unfamiliar to another in terms of sensations throughout the body. Goku saying "get really mad" is another aspect of that identical concept. It's balls-to-wall apparent that the tingly back descriptor was a definitive happenstance and not the trigger of SSJ. Like, one forgets that they already can use powers anyway. As an aside, I don't give a rat's ass if people think they learned it too quickly. You're dead, and I would never watch DBS again. Edit: basically, I'm insinuating that they were always already making their back tingly. Just cut out stories answered from in the middle and say DBS was fucking dogshit.
Vegeta used to get his ass whooped for no reason in Android Saga. I'm glad they gave him a redemption when he fought Kid Buu. At least his SS2 form helped him rise up multiple times
@MaloTheYoshi No as a Goku fan I strongly disagree with you , yes vegeta admitted in the buu saga that Goku is no. 1 but if you actually think about it , it was more of a redeeming moment for vegeta , he finally let go of that jealously he had against Goku constantly surpassing him and realized that his anger against Goku had been holding him back. He accepted Goku no. 1 at that time to beat kid buu. That doesn't mean that vegeta will sit on his arse and let Goku widen the gap even more , vegeta is a full blooded sayian like Goku and pushes himself harder than even Goku which is talked about in their fight in buu saga And DBGT handled vegeta WORSE than super dude like wtf? Vegeta just gave up fighting almost and wondered how Goku had widened the gap even more by ssj4 and had to rely on his wife to basically cheat code his way to ssj4 and got his ass spanked by baby , super17 and omega shernron. GT took a dump on his character dude. When vegeta respected Goku , he learnt humility and learned how to let go of his anger that blinded him from the truth. and when he said Goku is better than him it was because only Goku could beat kid buu at that time. That does not mean vegeta will go on the rest of his life thinking himself weaker than Goku. His pride won't allow it , he will obviously try to surpass him which is what you see in super nowadays.
@@shawn1799 it's weird for the genius Vegeta is he never once thought " he has alot of training partners and teachers. Maybe this dude that can turn SS at will may help make some gains"
I feel like Vegeta kept his Majin boost, but not because of a Zenkai Boost. He was revived ONLY to take out Majin Buu, so when he came back, King Yama probably made sure his body was at its peak in order to win.
@@gokublack8342 no it's not. The entire dbz series is on TH-cam and at no point did anybody get stronger without training after namek. There's zero proof that there is a zenkai boost. Pull up the video where they "imply" that.
The point was that we never saw how strong gohan was against super perfect cell. Gohan was confident vs super perfect. But then saved Vegeta and had his power cut in half. So he could of potentially been 50% stronger than what any of the Z fighters Saw.
Didn’t vegeta look down on Gohan at the world tournament saying he was weaker than he was during the cell fight? Implying two things: he himself was stronger than cell was and that he was disappointed Gohan didn’t keep training. His Saiyan pride extends to all the saiyans in some measure.
What I find interesting about the Cell Games is that Vegeta got the kind of emotional boost that should have pushed him across the barrier to SSJ2, but he didn't. To me, this means there's a clear delineation between Vegeta's power and Gohan's. Of course, we don't know if a similar rage would have pushed Goku over the edge or not at that point.
well gohan when he was enraged literally multiplied his power about 5x, while other saiyans only got at BEST 1.5x of their power with rage, thats why vegeta even getting that full power boost could not get enough to go ssj 2
Yeah Majin Vegeta did put up the BEST fight against Fat Buu (newly 'hatched' from the ball) until later when SS3 Goku fought him: -Gohan was given a Senzu by Goku, but he probably lost A LOT of ki during his energy barrage against the ball to stop Buu from hatching so he wouldn't have been at 100% when he tried to make his stand against the pink blob. Hell, he tried to flee before Buu knocked him into the ground -I don't think Dabura took much damage or lost much ki during his fight with Gohan on Stage 3. When Buu gouged out his eyes and kicked him into a cliff, I suppose Dabura was nearly at full power but was easily dispatched. Of course, he was heavily damaged when he reemerged to throw a spear through Buu's belly and fight before getting turned into a cookie -Shin was at 100% health/ki (lol like a video game character) when he fought Buu. However, you could tell the purple guy was scared to death and fighting out of desperation Crazy thing to remember about Buu's strength is that from the moment he hatched, his power CONSTANTLY kept growing as time went on. It was as if each fight listed above brought out more and more power. It was repeatedly mentioned that Buu's strength felt like a bottomless pit which is probably a result of being sealed away so long. So, the Fat Buu that fought SS3 Goku was WAY stronger than the Buu who fought Dabura, Majin Vegeta, Gohan and Shin. Heck, even Goku said that every time he powers up; Buu powers up as well! There was just no telling how high Fat Buu's strength could've gone!
Also gotta remember, shin himself said he was the weakest of the four Supreme kai (and grand Supreme kai) and he and the others fought kid buu who was at a higher level then fat buu
If SSJ2 Gohan from the cell games were together with buu Saga SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, that same Gohan would eventually surpass them both at the SSJ2 level
The best part of this is that I think Vegeta did the opposite of Goku, his own way. When he went into the chamber, I think instead of staying in SSJ form the whole time, he trained at base form which made him stronger than Goku’s Base form. This later shows in DB Super.
The most baffling thing for me though is how Toriyama wrote Vegeta to understand and even communicate what Full Power Super Saiyan is yet he also writes him, who Piccolo calls a 'genius tactician', to go into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and still not figure out to simply stay in Super Saiyan until he becomes accustomed to it, despite having another entire year while Goku and Gohan only had about 10 months. What a lapse in Toriyama's writing.
The part where ssj2 Gohan wanted Cell to suffer and when ssj Goku wanted to defeat Frieza in his 100%, I think that for a short time that a part of their savage Saiyan warrior gens was activated because they behaved like the old saiyan warriors who wanted to show domination over their opponent.
I think that saiyan instincts take control until you master a new form. Goku becomes kind of a dick when he first gets super saiyan. Gohan becomes straight up blood thirsty when he achieves ss2. Remember how much shit goku talks when he’s ss3?
Gohan has the best of both the Saiyan race and human race, he is perfect, so much so he doesn't even train but can still naturally keep up with everyone else.
My true theory of Fat Buus strength in why he can get his ass kicked by Vegeta and then has the power to surprise SS3 Goku is because he never needs to really put up a defense and can put all of his ki into offense. Goku and Vegeta don't have that luxury. It cost any Buu little to zero ki and stamina to regenerate they don't need to bolster any defenses that help protect them agaisnt ki blast.
@@Luke-kc9li I am not entirely sure, if we use Buuhan as a metric though we could argue that the power that Buu posses to almost break the universe when his eyes turn red and made Vegito put more effort into stopping that attack. Just like we have seen other versions of Buu reach deep for that power. If Fat Buu could unlock a portion of that power vs SS3 Goku I think it would have given him a really hard time to say the least.
Easy answer: Vegeta himself stated that he was impressed that Goku had ALSO surpassed ssj 2 Gohan from the Cell Saga referring to himself. Edit: It's a shame that Gohan actually got weaker/rusty due to his lack of training/scholar life in that time of peace which is why Vegeta was disappointed and frustrated with Gohan when he was fighting Dabura.
@eleodoro de la fuente Yeah I know what you mean, that Gohan that beat Cell and Mystic Gohan vs Buu are tied for me (too bad he got cucked and Goku had to finish buu off though)
@@KurokamiNajimi Nope, Majin was a small powerup, Vegeta without it was *FAR* stronger than Gohan. Not to mention Gohan is very rusty in terms of combat skills as shown against Dabura, Vegeta could've likely won against SSj2 Gohan even if Vegeta was just in SSj1.
@@2hotflavored666 I looked back at the Manga. What Vegeta actually said to Goku is at least you’re stronger than Gohan as in current Gohan when Goku went SSJ2. That implies neither of them were stronger than SSJ2 Gohan at that point without going SSJ2 themselves. Goku told Gohan if he unleashed more power like he did against Cell then he wouldn’t lose to “anyone”. Meaning neither Goku nor Vegeta at that point surpassed SSJ2 Gohan against Cell. Goku was only stronger as a SSJ3. Vegeta way before that in the tournament that if Gohan got mad then he’d be stronger than him. Yeah Gohan had fallen off but he was so far ahead to begin with that he could afford it. Remember SSJ Gohan against Cell was significantly stronger than SSJ Goku against him, Gohan was so much stronger that he thought Goku was holding back thinking he had to be stronger than him. And even against Super Perfect Cell he still overpowered him with less than half his power once he regained his confidence
Didn't get weaker just less experienced. I still think adolescence gohan would beat the brakes off teen gohan despite that just because he didn't try to fuck around and gas out like teen gohan did
You guys make a great point about Gohan being weakened in his final moments against Cell. I often wonder just how powerful Gohan's max was at that time.
Didn't Goku say that Vegeta trained for all seven years between arcs? He doesn't need to break his vow of never fighting again to continue training. Training for Vegeta is a hobby, a lifestyle.
Well I know for one thing Buu saga Vegeta is my favorite. He definitely wasn't going down easily like he did in Cell Saga. When he fought Kid Buu he was like fuck this I'm not staying down!
I believe Vegeta’s majin boost made him go past SS2 the only reason Goku could keep up but still be beat for most of the fight was cause he did have the amount of energy capable to turn SS3
The Majin control from Babidi put Vegeta at the level of a Mastered SSJ2 Goku. Vegeta was still new to his SSJ2 form, while Goku had mastered the form completely
Yeah I wish they actually addressed those things for poor Vegeta. That Goku only attained Ssj3 because of the infinite energy of being dead and that Goku had an even greater energy allowance from the dormant Ssj3.
I just don’t think that toriyama really thinks this logically into this stuff as he writes the stories. I think the logic of this just happened without it being the objective. Accidentally it makes sense. I doubt it was written to have hidden context
Injured or not Gohan was still way stronger than super perfect cell he just lost his confidence and that drained his key if he was never scared and never lost confidence he would have blown cell phone f with one hand without help
Figured his pre Majin SSJ2 (never bought the idea of Babidi giving him SSJ2) was stronger than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan but weaker than SSJ2 Goku at the time
I love how the funimation dub implies Vegeta has Ssj2 'A fight with Kakarot. Perfect! Just the opportunity I've been waiting for to prove my *true Saiyan abilities'*
Also he did *kinda* quit fighting because there was no one to actually fight since he wasn’t involved in an army like the Saiyan saga going around conquering planets. He still trained to keep in shape I guess as he did as a kid against saibamen as seen in the Bardock Special so that most likely naturally increased his power.
Its pretty likely that Vegeta's training picked back up because of Trunks. I can easily imagine a scenario where Trunks asks his dad to teach him to fight.
He would have trained regardless, but the drop in motivation likely helped him recover from a lifetime of overtraining. Compare that to Goku who has phases in his life where he trains and reaches a new level, and other periods where he just lives his life. Those off periods are never very long but always long enough for him to recover.
If you wanna add the Bojack Movie even tho it's Not Cannon to the actual story arc I would say that's what Motivated Vegeta to go back to Training because in that Movie Bojak beat the hell outta him lol
If I remember correctly in that same movie he was also mad at the fact that gohan had so much strength but was so reluctant to do what needed to be done and couldn't tap into ssj2 at will unless enraged.
Its been a while since I've watched anything post Cell Saga but I think young Trunks going Super Saiyan for the first time is what reignited his Saiyan Pride.
You did see his full potential. If gohan trained from cell saga till buu and there was a rip in time and he faced his mystic version.....even if he had ssj3 or whatever...he would've been ANNIHILATED and that's just the cold hard truth
Its in his blood not to stop training.. But he didn't have to train hard. Plus he was training trunks.. And he got more serious when he knew goku was coming.. He probably took at least 2 years off. Also don't forget during the bojack series trunk let it know that vegeta waant training.
I don't know why it is or ever was a debate of whether Vegeta turned SSJ2 on his own or through the Majin Boost. Do people even realize how long 7 years is? That's from 2015 to now. So you're telling me that someone of Vegeta's caliber trained from the month The Witcher 3 released all the way until the time I'm typing this comment...and is still stranded in SSJ1?? That would be an incredible insult to his character. That along with how relatively easy he shifted into the form as if he had down it already and was already accustomed to it shows he had already unlocked it long before the Majin Boost.
I think we should acknowledge vegeta trains as a saiyan so he trains till he can’t anymore and Goku trains as a martial artist so always improving his technique and his body, understanding what he needs to improve and work on
After getting Super Saiyan God for the first time, Goku got an increase in power because his body basically learned how to go to that level which helped him break through his previous limit. Something similar could have happened with Majin Vegeta where simply getting to that level of power once helped inform his body on how to reach it again.
He could have been saying "he passed the wall too" in reference to goku having passed it as well as gohan. Of course we all know that, but in the video that is stated as evidence that vegeta was already ss2. I think he was already ss2 as well... just do not think that particular comment is 100% evidence.
I think Vegita just did lighter training to keep his body maintained. It’s likely that he was slowly building up his endurance and really pushed himself upon hearing about Goku’s revisit.
yeah im just always curious how much stronger he was than youth cell saga gohan was? 50%? 100%? 300%? i wish i could know the gap but considering he lasted so long against kid buu while gohan got wrecked by fat buu and nearly beaten by dabura i think that its at least 50%(which is a huge gap btw dont underestimate it)
@@queenofdarkness3341 yeah power scaling in DB is incredibly weird where even a 25% gain over the opponent turns it into a one sided blowout (as seen with the recorded 150M vs 120M of goku vs frieza).
I always figured Vegeta at the beginning of the Buu Saga was about even with the power SSJ2 Gohan had against Cell. That’s how ridiculously powerful Gohan was, that it took Vegeta nearly 7 years of intense training to catch up! Obviously Gohan however had gotten much weaker in that time. But Goku had stayed ahead of Vegeta. Because Goku could go SSJ3, his power at SSJ2 was more than Vegeta’s was. That’s when Vegeta decided to start making comments that would get Babidi’s attention and he’d get the Majin Boost to close the gap.
I have always believed that leading up to the Majin boost Vegetas issue was not that he wasn't in the ballpark of Gokus power level but that he was struggling with his mental state, a change in character. Since the arrival of the androids, he's been increasingly struggling with his new identity as a protector and father. I seem to remember android 20 commenting on Vegeta being unfocused. During the cell Saga, he now comes into a power level where he could casually destroy the earth, or at least that point is repeatedly made that an accidental shot could cause that. He's gone from fighting with everything he has to annihilate his opponents to having to hold back and question himself. Goku doesn't have to do that to fill this role. He prefers to fight calm and we see this with their Ultra transformations in super. I think what we see is him using the Majin transformation to remove his self imposed doubt and limits, to let him bring his full strength to bare and when he fights buu, I think we see him learning to finally accept his limits and change his priorities by fighting the seal itself.
I think you can pinpoint his training to his knowledge and realization of the birth of Goten. He found new purpose of his son rivaling the power of the spitting image of Goku.
What everyone forgets is that when a Dragonball character boasts about surpassing another, it's usually only by a difference of like 10-1000 in the Battle Power scale. Especially if they're only going off memory and not feats.
Definitely don’t forget that Gohan was scared and holding back even during the beam struggle. Even if Cell wasn’t distracted by Vegeta, he might have had enough power to take him down anyway, and this is with him saying he was already at half Ki from the injury. Gohan was afraid of destroying things on accident. Goku tells him that he hasn’t used up all his power and confirms that he’s holding back because he’s afraid of destroying Earth. He tells Gohan to let it go and the dragon balls can fix anything he does. I think the manga does this scene better IMO because it feels like what happens isn’t that Vegeta distracts Cell. Rather, the manga shows Cell is toying with Gohan a bit before using his full power which would have obliterated him instantly. Gohan and Goku are having the argument that Gohan is holding back. Right when Goku tells Gohan it’s okay to destroy the Earth as long as they have access to dragon balls (I’m assuming they’d come up with a plan to use Namek’s), Cell tells him “Goodbye” like he’s just about to blow him to pieces before Gohan is really ready to go all out. At that exact second, Vegeta blasts Cell in the head. It doesn’t seem to weaken Cell at all, it’s just that it surprises him for the extra split second for Gohan to be persuaded to go all in before Cell used his full power first while Gohan was still afraid. Further, I think the fact that even a half powered Gohan was stronger than Cell is supported by the fact that Cell just stood there and took the beam with a surprised look on his face. Gohan was not able to dodge the attack from Cell because it was designed to wipe out the entire solar system, but there’s no reason why Cell wouldn’t have been able to dodge Gohan even if Gohan’s attack would do the same. He wasn’t physically impaired in anyway like Gohan was as well. I think that indicates the fact that he literally could not dodge the attack. Crazy to think what Gohan could have done at his full power back then.
I do think he trained with no breaks for the time skip because of comments like. "Gohan has gotten soft in this time of peace. He's no warrior". Which implies he continued training even with no goal.
Had vegeta and trunks trained together like goku and gohan in the cell saga. No doubt vegeta would have gone ssj2 and trunks as well cause both would have found a common element to use to get stronger.
Vegeta when he’s about to fight Goku SSJ 2 mocks him saying at least Goku is stronger than his son when he was fighting cell. So we know that he was at least a fair bit stronger than SSJ 2 Gohan from cell games (otherwise why would he mock Goku that way). I also don’t think going Majin gave him a power boost, I think it just got rid of whatever shred of humanity he had picked up living on earth, restoring his ruthlessness.
It also didn't help that Goku used Super Saiyan against Android 19. When I watched Kai subbed, Vegeta stated that turning Super Saiyan actually weakens the immune system to a degree, which messed up Goku's fight
15:15 this statement by Vegeta can also refer to Gohan. He knows from the fight against Cell that Gohan went over the Super Saiyan. Now he has seen that Goku has also gone over the Super Saiyan. Later he says himself that it was exactly at this point that he decided that he needed a boost to be able to keep up with Goku and even went so far as to let Babidi control him to be on Goku's level , which he briefly showed at Yakon. So it clearly means that either Vegeta has also surpassed the Super Saiyan but is not as strong as Goku or he has not yet reached the real Super Saiyan 2 aka Ultra Saiyan like Gohan and Goku.
Gohan and Trunks should of went in to the hyperbolic time chamber after Goku and Gohan first used it. Trunks would of caught up in strength to Gohan, and Gohan may or may not have achieved SSJ2 in a way that he could of controlled. Obviously he achieved it briefly with Goku, and he wouldn’t be on the same level during the Cell fight. I understand why Goku and Vegeta wouldn’t train together at this time, but the 2 half sayians would have been more willing to learn from each other.
The manga and anime for Z are pretty interchangable. The movies can all fit if you change 1 or 2 details. The Legacy of Goku series tried to incorporate some movies into the main story to some success.
The main difference is obviously extra scenes (examples being Goku going Super Kaioken vs Pikkon) in the anime, and certain lines not being mentioned that were in the manga like Goku to telling Vegeta they'd both be killed if they fought base Super Buu, or Kid Buu being the most dangerous Buu, but not necessarily the strongest. Buuhan is the strongest. It makes no sense that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan. And yeah, Super Buu is stronger too, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to separate Buu. Even in the anime they note he is getting stronger (Buff Buu), but then aren't impressed by Kid Buu's reveal. Yes, they underestimate Kid Buu's relentless ferocity, but his raw power is another story. They mention how Fat Buu lost a lot of his power when he split into Good and Pure Evil Buu, and Good Buu is the one that Kid Buu destroyed. If you look at it, Kid Buu is Pure Evil Buu minus all of the raw power he gained from transformations. Only Grand Supreme Kai weakened him. Super Buu is so strong that...they had to exclude him from FighterZ.
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He became much stronger than Cell. Especially after the Majin boost. When Goku powered up to SSJ2 Vegeta wasn't bothered by it at all. I know power levels really start to go out the window during Buu saga but it really makes you realize how big of a gap there is between SSJ2 and 3. Off topic, but it's always seemed silly to me that the Z fighters didn't get Old Kai to unlock all of their potential. Goku and Vegeta would be as strong as SSJ3 in their base forms.
When Vegeta notes that Goku has surpassed the Saiyan Wall, "too", he's referencing Gohan. That's why he's not smirking in the next panel. He's unamused that he's the only one who hasn't been able to surpass the barrier.
When Majin Vegeta and Goku are fighting. When they break or before they fight, there is a conversation between the two, where they discuss years and how Vegeta had kept up with Goku regardless of intense training off world etc
The gap I have between Pre Majin Vegeta and Cell Games Gohan is the same gap I have between Pre RoSaT Goku and Vegeta in the Artificial Human arc. During the Cell Games I have Goku 30% stronger than Vegeta, and I have that same gap between Pre Majin Vegeta and Boo arc Goku. Since Vegeta was so desperate that he needed Babidi just to catch up to Goku, clearly showing he couldn't tactics and his skill to make up for the gap. But that's just me.
@@UniVS427 I can see that side of it too, because the way Vegeta talks, he sounds like Cell Games Gohan is still the benchmark. So he would have to be either equal or slightly stronger.
I thought Vegeta didnt achieve SS2 till he was taken over by Babidi, he see's Goku use it to kill Yakon and isn't that what makes him want the power boost from Babidi because Goku had achieved SS2 and he had not.
Interesting how Super Saiyan Grade 3 and Super Saiyan 3 both run into issues. Grade 3 having a power/speed instability issue and Super Saiyan 3 having a power conservation issue. Two forms Vegeta dismissed.
I don't think any of the characters are Mastered Super Saiyans anymore. After Cell, they no longer stay in their SSJ form. And as explained during that time, Mastered SSJ keeps the energy they would have used up initiating the transformation and negates the energy drain of SSJ. But we see in later fights that these characters can still get knocked out of SSJ, even though before, we saw Goku and Gohan sleeping as SSJs. So basically if they don't stay in the form, they lose the Mastered SSJ, just like if you stop working out, you lose strength and stamina.
@@AllMight6 I don't think that is the case. Training while transformed gets the body accustomed to maintaining that form while also getting stronger naturally. Similar to what happened during the Cell arc and in Dragon Ball Super with the Blue transformation. The gains you get while transformed will likely be the same as normal, just with the added bonus of your body being more used to the transformation.
Up until the Tournament, Gohan back in the Cell Games was the strongest being Vegeta had witnessed, so his aim was to stronger than that. Same thing happened when he saw Goku and Trunks 3 years before the Androids. Those were the benchmarks he had to overcome. But since he was partly training Kid Trunks during the 7 years, he wasn't able to more cleanly surpass Gohan. Not until Babidi's magic.
Wrong.. training with someone else is how you get stronger hence kakarot surpassing Vegeta in the cell saga because Vegeta trained alone while Gohan and kakarot trained together...he surpassed Gohan's ssj 2 but needed the boost to match Kakarot's ssj 2
I'm so thankful, as a Vegeta fan, that the Funimation dub pays a bit more respect to Vegeta in terms of where he was after 7 years of training and what Babidi did compared to the Manga: I know Gohan was the ultimate measure of potential but good Lord, it's been 7 years. Is Toriyama really expecting me to believe Vegeta didn't surpass his Ssj2 in 7 years of training? From 'Impressive, you're stronger than Gohan was when he fought Cell' to 'Well...at least you're stronger than your Son was against Cell.' I like that. It's subtle and it's dub exclusive but it puts a stamp on Vegeta exceeding Gohan who was the benchmark up to this point (before the craziness of Ssj3 and Mystic and Gotenks). And as I say, same as with Babidi, it retains Vegeta's integrity as a character and as a warrior when in the dub, he says 'Now, allow me to RESTORE your power to the way it was before you began resisting your dark nature'. Whereas in the Manga it really does Vegeta dirty with Babidi saying 'I'll release his hidden powers and allow him to overcome his limits' essentially confirming in the manga that Vegeta was way behind Goku even at Ssj2 let alone Ssj3. I definitely prefer the Anime for those little changes in Vegeta's favour. Small, but appreciated.
I present you guys facts....If Vegeta and Goku trained together in the hyperbolic chamber rather than train with their sons Cell would have been annihilated.
Vegeta would have benefited by training with anyone. Iron sharpens iron. That's whats so impressive about Vegeta is that he got all his power by himself. Would be like a boxer becoming world champion without ever having a sparring partner and relying solely on punchbags.
@@LGTGHOSTHUNTING do you know what's impressive about goku he was born with a powerless of 2 adult goku during the saiyan saga(no kaioken) was weaker than 12 year old vegeta and baby broly
A saiyan's biggest weakness is his pride. It's proven time and time again from the fight with Raditz where Raditz was toying with them which costed him his life all the way to Gohan toying with Buu and every thing else in between. The only one who wasn't prideful was Future Trunks. He made sure to get the job done every chance he got.
Another good point about the majin vegeta vs. goku fight, is that Goku was dead for that fight. This made him way more durable and efficient with energy. If nothing else, Majin allowed Vegeta to negate this disadvantage, which he did, as the two were dead even in that fight. So I don't see majin as giving Vegeta ssj2, rather I see it as giving him a boost to equal a dead goku. (Think of that henchman who fought videl. The Z fighters were amazed at his durability and energy reserves while he was majin..)
I must admit these constant powerups and transformations that Goku and Vegeta keep getting in the Dragonball series I am tiring of. Also this constant hate Vegeta has for Goku and this wanting to surpass Goku in strength I'm also tiring of. At least at the end of Z it seems that they do get along better. In Super it seems to me at least that Vegeta doesn't get along well with Goku at all and only fights with him when he feels like it or when it's necessary for the plot to advance further.
They get along pretty well, not sure what you watched? Vegeta actually treats him like a sibling he gets annoyed of constantly but clearly has love for and it’s pretty easy to spot. They even joke with each other more. Also why would he not want to continue to pass Goku in terms of strength. It’d be just like athletes who are at the highest level constantly trying to out perform or find ways to be and get better than their counterparts. They both love fighting and both have a competitive drive to be better than the other so what’s the issue with that?
The transformations are definitely tiring when they lack originality, but i actually liked the transformation they added but the execution was terrible. There’s no way everyone got a power up to obtain God ki in super and they basically wasted the red hair transformation. That definitely could’ve lasted until the tournament of power because it’s such a crazy boost in power from where they were. I also hated how when Goku fought Jiren he basically did nothing to him, that was retarded.
@@plains7000 I haven’t either. I’m more of a casual watcher of the show. Don’t think i’ll read it, but if they do release new episodes i’ll probably tune in. Hopefully they develop Goten and Trunks though. I’d also be looking for more story development and less villains and arcs that don’t make any sense. I’d rather just goofy episodes where they mess around, train, develop more characters build relationships. Or even where they fight a few villains but easily over power them, because again it’d be nice to see that God transformation actually means something.
I feel that Vegeta was still training during the 7 year skip but once he surpassed Gohan he had no Goku around that would've kept striving to be the strongest. You have to remember that after goku died, Gohan focused more on becoming a scholar. So he never tried to surpass Vegeta.
After Vegeta saw Super Saiyajin Goku use his 50% of his full power he decided to surpass that "top" Goku showed, for me Vegeta after using for a second time the Time Chamber got to around 70 to 75% of Super Saiyajin Goku´s full power, that is the middle between the already shown power by Goku, but clearly weaker than his full power that he use to fight Cell Now in the Buu saga after 7 years of constant training, Vegeta already had seen Super Saiyajin 2 Gohan against Super Perfect Cell, so he knew how powerfull they were (as the where the two most powerfull fighters of that time), so believing that Vegeta did not try to achive that power is ilogic concidering how is the personality of Vegeta In conclusion, Vegeta at the Cell games had a power around 70 to 75% of Super Saiyajin Goku, and after the 7 years of training he got AT LEAST as powerfull as Super Saiyajin 2 Gohan
Let's say SS2 max power is 6 million. I would put Young Gohan at 4.5 million and Super Perfect Cell at 4 million. That would mean Goku and Majin Vegeta were at 5.9 Million.
@@MetaITurtle I would put ssj2 goku and ssj2 majin vegeta at 6 million. And gohan and cell at cell. Cuz I think that gohan and cell are almost equal, or gohan might be a tiny bit stronger than him
Poor Vegeta went to the trouble of using magic to reach Goku's level only to not only fail at that but gets outdone by a piece a chewing gum and a rusty Gohan who only trained for a day😆😆👍🏾👍🏾
It made their SSJ2 forms equal because Goku was more powerful because he was dead. Oh yeah and Vegeta only lost to Buu because Buu kept regenerating and Gohan didn't train for a day, the process that Elder Kai had where he walked around Gohan and chanted just takes an entire day.
Actually I think that's fair for Vegeta to use a power boost against Goku. Now read me out here, remember Goku kept his "physical" body in other world. We let that slide for some reason, when actually that's cheating way more than Vegeta lol.
Whenever I watched Dragon Ball Z Gohan was my favorite character because he was just such a well rounded and Amazing Character it was also astonishing seeing how strong Gohan was and he was JUST A KID!!! Then I started watching Super and all I can say is I am so disappointed on how they did my boy Gohan cuz now he is just a Nerdy Dad that can't even go Super Saiyan 2 as easily as he used to I just wish they would've maybe kept him as a main character like Vegeta but I don't know man I am just sad on how they did him in Super thanks for listening to my rant
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
It seemed to be implied that Vegeta was on par with 18. Problem was the ki and stamina drain on his body. She outlasted him. Dragon Ball was so much more interesting when Vegeta, Gohan, Goku and Piccolo took turns being strongest.
@Adrian Scott Yeah. While it wasn't completely one sided, he couldn't touch her after burning so much ki/stamina. Vegeta mentioned Kamicollo that rivals 17/18 was far stronger than himself as a SSJ.
18 was stronger and im a vegeta fan. but yes the stamina was a big factor cause vegeta was more experienced in battle if it wasnt for the stamina he may have managed to win but she was advantaged in every other way
I just finished rewatching this part in the anime(OG dub) and its mentioned that 18 was toying with him. Vegeta seemed to have been much weaker than her.
@@Grosvenor77 vegeta was just thinking out loud when he said that, she was messing around but vegeta could've found a way to win if he had longer stamina at the time of their fight.
@@queenofdarkness3341 I don't think so. I think Vegeta was a bit stronger but 18 had info about Vegeta and knew how Vegeta fought. "Know your enemy and know yourself". Of course she also had unlimited stamina. I recall Vegeta landed a punch or two and she was like....she should be more careful and she decided to troll him and make him burn himself out after that swipe for the knock out. Anyway..I think everybody are confused because everybody watched their own version of Dub or some only read the Manga.
Enough power to stop Cell from reaching his Perfect form.
And yet HE DIDN'T!
Remember though, Cell had Vegeta's cells. So he was literally part Vegeta.
Oof!
Lmfao
So basically no increase at all that sounds great
If Buu and Cell couldn't regenerate then Vegeta would have actually killed both of them. I think that's worth mentioning when considering how tough they were. Regeneration is kind of a cheat code.
But Goku could have beat fat buu regardless and cell was in semi perfect state I believe when injured vs vegeta.
@@MakingGainz Perfect Cell was nearly obliterated by Final Flash when he tried to tank it. Then he regenerated. He even says "oh shit" before the blast lands - TFS literally pays homage to that line. Cell only had half his body blasted by a fully charged Final Flash because he moved out the way slightly, last minute.
@@gonereducedtoatoms-c1d vegeta was no where near as string as goku at this point
@@MakingGainz Irrelevant, he still would have killed them if they couldn't regen, which by the way for Cell it doesn't even make fucking sense. Piccolo can't just regenerate a massive chunk of his torso or literally regenerate half of his body, so him saying he got his regeneration from Piccolo just doesn't even add up.
@@MakingGainz I didn't say that lol plz read.
They would have gone further even faster if they figured out how to make their back all tingly.
😂😅
lmfaoo
@UE5 Project Storm there's a fan manga of dragonball by callmearj called dragonball super VE it's about vegetas father coming back to life again and i think you'll like it
I said this back in 2017 when people pretended to be unhappy just so they could bitch back then; It's very realistic for one to describe something unfamiliar to another in terms of sensations throughout the body. Goku saying "get really mad" is another aspect of that identical concept. It's balls-to-wall apparent that the tingly back descriptor was a definitive happenstance and not the trigger of SSJ. Like, one forgets that they already can use powers anyway. As an aside, I don't give a rat's ass if people think they learned it too quickly. You're dead, and I would never watch DBS again.
Edit: basically, I'm insinuating that they were always already making their back tingly. Just cut out stories answered from in the middle and say DBS was fucking dogshit.
Damn 😂
Vegeta's about as durable as the main villain's he's up against honestly.
Darn right only difference is his lack to regenerate; which makes his battles even more brutal to watch
Vegeta used to get his ass whooped for no reason in Android Saga. I'm glad they gave him a redemption when he fought Kid Buu. At least his SS2 form helped him rise up multiple times
@@coin4898 thats why i always respected vegeta and i felt like he outperformed goku against buu
@@queenofdarkness3341 How!? Goku was on par with Kid Buu while Vegeta was just a punching bag
@@markvormer1978 vegeta fans like this make me cringe. Just devoid of reality
How much power did Vegeta gain?
Vegeta: Yes.
Vegeta would've made sure to surpass Gohan's power during the Cell Games. This is Vegeta we're talking about. He won't accept being 2nd best.
To bad he’s been second best for his whole life
@@kylemason2836 i loved how he agreed with this statement with toppo
@@izuokoko1896 what are you talking about? Of course buu saga vegeta is stronger than cell saga gohan
@@GokuTheSuperSaiyan1 I was talking about cell saga vegeta😑
@MaloTheYoshi No as a Goku fan I strongly disagree with you , yes vegeta admitted in the buu saga that Goku is no. 1 but if you actually think about it , it was more of a redeeming moment for vegeta , he finally let go of that jealously he had against Goku constantly surpassing him and realized that his anger against Goku had been holding him back. He accepted Goku no. 1 at that time to beat kid buu. That doesn't mean that vegeta will sit on his arse and let Goku widen the gap even more , vegeta is a full blooded sayian like Goku and pushes himself harder than even Goku which is talked about in their fight in buu saga And DBGT handled vegeta WORSE than super dude like wtf? Vegeta just gave up fighting almost and wondered how Goku had widened the gap even more by ssj4 and had to rely on his wife to basically cheat code his way to ssj4 and got his ass spanked by baby , super17 and omega shernron. GT took a dump on his character dude.
When vegeta respected Goku , he learnt humility and learned how to let go of his anger that blinded him from the truth.
and when he said Goku is better than him it was because only Goku could beat kid buu at that time. That does not mean vegeta will go on the rest of his life thinking himself weaker than Goku. His pride won't allow it , he will obviously try to surpass him which is what you see in super nowadays.
According to DBZ Kakarot, he changed his mind just a few days after the cell games. Based on the sub story with Gohan
Not connected To Anime and Manga..but Think of it as different timelime
@@elpopman2055 fair point as well
@@elpopman2055 toriyama stated that kakarot would be the new canon. But it still seems too strange for the bardock dlc to even exist on that game
Is there a "what if Trunks and vegeta ACTUALLY trained together?" Like lose the pride and train instead of yelling at air
Losing his pride would ruin the entire point of his existence.
@@shawn1799 making gainz getting stronger was his goal. Even if it was just sparring . Trunks just sat there watchin
@@AlmostCoolGuys I know, but his ORIGINAL main goal was to surpass Goku, but now he’s working on his own powers.
@@shawn1799 it's weird for the genius Vegeta is he never once thought " he has alot of training partners and teachers. Maybe this dude that can turn SS at will may help make some gains"
@@AlmostCoolGuys It's plot armor. If everyone trained to their full potential Goku would be in last place.
I feel like Vegeta kept his Majin boost, but not because of a Zenkai Boost. He was revived ONLY to take out Majin Buu, so when he came back, King Yama probably made sure his body was at its peak in order to win.
Lol no.
@@colinnixon7739 Hes probably weaker than Majin but stronger than before Majin boost being dead and revived counts as a zenkai boost
@@gokublack8342 there are no more zenkai boost post namek
@@colinnixon7739 Theres no proof to your statement its even implied when Goku recovers from the heart virus that he got a bit of a zenkai
@@gokublack8342 no it's not. The entire dbz series is on TH-cam and at no point did anybody get stronger without training after namek. There's zero proof that there is a zenkai boost. Pull up the video where they "imply" that.
Vegeta was stronger than max Gohan against cell....the writers said it multiple times ....
The point was that we never saw how strong gohan was against super perfect cell. Gohan was confident vs super perfect. But then saved Vegeta and had his power cut in half. So he could of potentially been 50% stronger than what any of the Z fighters Saw.
@@Telarius still vegeta his stronger can't talk about what you never saw
You are talking about Super Vegita?
@@justinfrazier3610 vegeta in the buu ark
Didn’t vegeta look down on Gohan at the world tournament saying he was weaker than he was during the cell fight? Implying two things: he himself was stronger than cell was and that he was disappointed Gohan didn’t keep training. His Saiyan pride extends to all the saiyans in some measure.
What I find interesting about the Cell Games is that Vegeta got the kind of emotional boost that should have pushed him across the barrier to SSJ2, but he didn't. To me, this means there's a clear delineation between Vegeta's power and Gohan's. Of course, we don't know if a similar rage would have pushed Goku over the edge or not at that point.
He hadn't mastered ssj like gohan and goku did. He still was using grade 2 not grade 4 ssj like goku and gohan.
yea it was enough for him to go ssj2 in reality but why would they have him go ssj2 & not gohan😂😂
Only Gohan did that for ssj2 because he had rage boosts.
well gohan when he was enraged literally multiplied his power about 5x, while other saiyans only got at BEST 1.5x of their power with rage, thats why vegeta even getting that full power boost could not get enough to go ssj 2
Didn’t Goku get one when Krillin was killed by Frieza?
Yeah Majin Vegeta did put up the BEST fight against Fat Buu (newly 'hatched' from the ball) until later when SS3 Goku fought him:
-Gohan was given a Senzu by Goku, but he probably lost A LOT of ki during his energy barrage against the ball to stop Buu from hatching so he wouldn't have been at 100% when he tried to make his stand against the pink blob. Hell, he tried to flee before Buu knocked him into the ground
-I don't think Dabura took much damage or lost much ki during his fight with Gohan on Stage 3. When Buu gouged out his eyes and kicked him into a cliff, I suppose Dabura was nearly at full power but was easily dispatched. Of course, he was heavily damaged when he reemerged to throw a spear through Buu's belly and fight before getting turned into a cookie
-Shin was at 100% health/ki (lol like a video game character) when he fought Buu. However, you could tell the purple guy was scared to death and fighting out of desperation
Crazy thing to remember about Buu's strength is that from the moment he hatched, his power CONSTANTLY kept growing as time went on. It was as if each fight listed above brought out more and more power. It was repeatedly mentioned that Buu's strength felt like a bottomless pit which is probably a result of being sealed away so long. So, the Fat Buu that fought SS3 Goku was WAY stronger than the Buu who fought Dabura, Majin Vegeta, Gohan and Shin. Heck, even Goku said that every time he powers up; Buu powers up as well! There was just no telling how high Fat Buu's strength could've gone!
Also gotta remember, shin himself said he was the weakest of the four Supreme kai (and grand Supreme kai) and he and the others fought kid buu who was at a higher level then fat buu
If SSJ2 Gohan from the cell games were together with buu Saga SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, that same Gohan would eventually surpass them both at the SSJ2 level
@@SuperbMoves I think heroes mentioned if gohan kept training w/ piccolo after cell he'd eventually reach ssj3
In Dbm in alt universe Dabura and fat buu are Friends and Babadi became a Statue.
@@damaged2810 what's not possible
The best part of this is that I think Vegeta did the opposite of Goku, his own way. When he went into the chamber, I think instead of staying in SSJ form the whole time, he trained at base form which made him stronger than Goku’s Base form.
This later shows in DB Super.
The most baffling thing for me though is how Toriyama wrote Vegeta to understand and even communicate what Full Power Super Saiyan is yet he also writes him, who Piccolo calls a 'genius tactician', to go into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and still not figure out to simply stay in Super Saiyan until he becomes accustomed to it, despite having another entire year while Goku and Gohan only had about 10 months. What a lapse in Toriyama's writing.
The part where ssj2 Gohan wanted Cell to suffer and when ssj Goku wanted to defeat Frieza in his 100%, I think that for a short time that a part of their savage Saiyan warrior gens was activated because they behaved like the old saiyan warriors who wanted to show domination over their opponent.
SSJ2 teen Gohan never even showcased his full power instead was using about 70% before he was injured maybe even less than that
💪🏾
Ssj was originally supposed to make you more aggressive and bloodthirsty before everyone mastered it
I think that saiyan instincts take control until you master a new form. Goku becomes kind of a dick when he first gets super saiyan. Gohan becomes straight up blood thirsty when he achieves ss2. Remember how much shit goku talks when he’s ss3?
"for you see, Gohan. You're not dealing with the average Saiyan anymore..."
Gohan would reck Vegeta
Gohan has the best of both the Saiyan race and human race, he is perfect, so much so he doesn't even train but can still naturally keep up with everyone else.
@@KallusGarnet 👍
@@KallusGarnet he has more potential than Goku and Vegeta if only he had their work ethic he could be the strongest in the series
No, no, noooooo
My true theory of Fat Buus strength in why he can get his ass kicked by Vegeta and then has the power to surprise SS3 Goku is because he never needs to really put up a defense and can put all of his ki into offense. Goku and Vegeta don't have that luxury.
It cost any Buu little to zero ki and stamina to regenerate they don't need to bolster any defenses that help protect them agaisnt ki blast.
And Vegeta's more aggressive fighting wise than Goku so he completely overwhelmed fat Buu while Goku Actually had to run fades with him
My guess is buu wasn’t really trying
@@Luke-kc9li I am not entirely sure, if we use Buuhan as a metric though we could argue that the power that Buu posses to almost break the universe when his eyes turn red and made Vegito put more effort into stopping that attack. Just like we have seen other versions of Buu reach deep for that power. If Fat Buu could unlock a portion of that power vs SS3 Goku I think it would have given him a really hard time to say the least.
Easy answer: Vegeta himself stated that he was impressed that Goku had ALSO surpassed ssj 2 Gohan from the Cell Saga referring to himself. Edit: It's a shame that Gohan actually got weaker/rusty due to his lack of training/scholar life in that time of peace which is why Vegeta was disappointed and frustrated with Gohan when he was fighting Dabura.
@eleodoro de la fuente Yeah I know what you mean, that Gohan that beat Cell and Mystic Gohan vs Buu are tied for me (too bad he got cucked and Goku had to finish buu off though)
Vegeta was only stronger than Gohan against Cell when he was Majin Vegeta
@@KurokamiNajimi Nope, Majin was a small powerup, Vegeta without it was *FAR* stronger than Gohan. Not to mention Gohan is very rusty in terms of combat skills as shown against Dabura, Vegeta could've likely won against SSj2 Gohan even if Vegeta was just in SSj1.
@@2hotflavored666 I looked back at the Manga. What Vegeta actually said to Goku is at least you’re stronger than Gohan as in current Gohan when Goku went SSJ2. That implies neither of them were stronger than SSJ2 Gohan at that point without going SSJ2 themselves. Goku told Gohan if he unleashed more power like he did against Cell then he wouldn’t lose to “anyone”. Meaning neither Goku nor Vegeta at that point surpassed SSJ2 Gohan against Cell. Goku was only stronger as a SSJ3. Vegeta way before that in the tournament that if Gohan got mad then he’d be stronger than him. Yeah Gohan had fallen off but he was so far ahead to begin with that he could afford it. Remember SSJ Gohan against Cell was significantly stronger than SSJ Goku against him, Gohan was so much stronger that he thought Goku was holding back thinking he had to be stronger than him. And even against Super Perfect Cell he still overpowered him with less than half his power once he regained his confidence
Didn't get weaker just less experienced. I still think adolescence gohan would beat the brakes off teen gohan despite that just because he didn't try to fuck around and gas out like teen gohan did
You guys make a great point about Gohan being weakened in his final moments against Cell. I often wonder just how powerful Gohan's max was at that time.
30 Minutes can be summarized with "a lot"
Didn't Goku say that Vegeta trained for all seven years between arcs? He doesn't need to break his vow of never fighting again to continue training. Training for Vegeta is a hobby, a lifestyle.
Well I know for one thing Buu saga Vegeta is my favorite. He definitely wasn't going down easily like he did in Cell Saga. When he fought Kid Buu he was like fuck this I'm not staying down!
what a chad☺️😀
I believe Vegeta’s majin boost made him go past SS2 the only reason Goku could keep up but still be beat for most of the fight was cause he did have the amount of energy capable to turn SS3
Vegeta became a SSJ2 during the 7 year peace time. Which is why he was so pissed off when Gohan fought Dabura.
The Majin control from Babidi put Vegeta at the level of a Mastered SSJ2 Goku. Vegeta was still new to his SSJ2 form, while Goku had mastered the form completely
Yeah I wish they actually addressed those things for poor Vegeta. That Goku only attained Ssj3 because of the infinite energy of being dead and that Goku had an even greater energy allowance from the dormant Ssj3.
Nice headcannon for the 4 of you. None of those were mentioned it's all assumptions.
@@Nestle245 everything about the the convo is an assumption, but that’s the most logical based on the info given in the show
I just don’t think that toriyama really thinks this logically into this stuff as he writes the stories. I think the logic of this just happened without it being the objective. Accidentally it makes sense. I doubt it was written to have hidden context
100% man. I think people think way too deep into the series.
Yeah toriyama after frieza saga tended to think of the story as he went along. It was always more about the action than the story
Injured or not Gohan was still way stronger than super perfect cell he just lost his confidence and that drained his key if he was never scared and never lost confidence he would have blown cell phone f with one hand without help
Majin Vegeta might just be my favourite arc in DBZ period
best character of Z
Figured his pre Majin SSJ2 (never bought the idea of Babidi giving him SSJ2) was stronger than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan but weaker than SSJ2 Goku at the time
I love how the funimation dub implies Vegeta has Ssj2 'A fight with Kakarot. Perfect! Just the opportunity I've been waiting for to prove my *true Saiyan abilities'*
Also he did *kinda* quit fighting because there was no one to actually fight since he wasn’t involved in an army like the Saiyan saga going around conquering planets.
He still trained to keep in shape I guess as he did as a kid against saibamen as seen in the Bardock Special so that most likely naturally increased his power.
That guy used to train nonstop and he still couldn't beat Goku. I felt bad for him.
to be fair vegeta was alive while goku was dead so vegeta had the issue of being tired while goku could really train non stop
To be Fair neither could Tien,Krillin,or Piccolo😅😅
Well he was stronger than goku in the saiyan saga and could have killed goku if gohan and krillin didn’t show up to help
@@pbb2534 he was only stronger after transforming.
@@romulus_ true, but it was still a time where vegeta was stronger than goku and he had the bigger advantage over him.
Its pretty likely that Vegeta's training picked back up because of Trunks. I can easily imagine a scenario where Trunks asks his dad to teach him to fight.
He would have trained regardless, but the drop in motivation likely helped him recover from a lifetime of overtraining. Compare that to Goku who has phases in his life where he trains and reaches a new level, and other periods where he just lives his life. Those off periods are never very long but always long enough for him to recover.
If you wanna add the Bojack Movie even tho it's Not Cannon to the actual story arc I would say that's what Motivated Vegeta to go back to Training because in that Movie Bojak beat the hell outta him lol
If I remember correctly in that same movie he was also mad at the fact that gohan had so much strength but was so reluctant to do what needed to be done and couldn't tap into ssj2 at will unless enraged.
Its been a while since I've watched anything post Cell Saga but I think young Trunks going Super Saiyan for the first time is what reignited his Saiyan Pride.
This channel is super underrated
It really is
I agree
Agreed
Somehow after all this time
It’s the news anchor voice for me
When Vegeta gave up fighting I bet it was Bulma who knocked the sense back into him
Let’s be real we all miss teen gohan, and the fact that he is so badass that we didn’t see his full potential, then it’s just crazy idk.
You did see his full potential. If gohan trained from cell saga till buu and there was a rip in time and he faced his mystic version.....even if he had ssj3 or whatever...he would've been ANNIHILATED and that's just the cold hard truth
@@sorakazama7031 never thought of that before, good point.
Lol 11 year old Gohan
Its in his blood not to stop training.. But he didn't have to train hard. Plus he was training trunks.. And he got more serious when he knew goku was coming.. He probably took at least 2 years off. Also don't forget during the bojack series trunk let it know that vegeta waant training.
I don't know why it is or ever was a debate of whether Vegeta turned SSJ2 on his own or through the Majin Boost. Do people even realize how long 7 years is? That's from 2015 to now. So you're telling me that someone of Vegeta's caliber trained from the month The Witcher 3 released all the way until the time I'm typing this comment...and is still stranded in SSJ1?? That would be an incredible insult to his character. That along with how relatively easy he shifted into the form as if he had down it already and was already accustomed to it shows he had already unlocked it long before the Majin Boost.
I mean if Gohan trained the entire time he probably would have been stronger than even Goku at ssj3 even at ssj2.
Most likely, he did end up the strongest Z fighter at the end of the Buu Saga.
“He was never able to defeat Goku the way that he wanted to”
Translation: Kill him. That’s how he wanted to as stated before his fight with 19
🤣😂🤣😂
Correct 😂
I think we should acknowledge vegeta trains as a saiyan so he trains till he can’t anymore and Goku trains as a martial artist so always improving his technique and his body, understanding what he needs to improve and work on
After getting Super Saiyan God for the first time, Goku got an increase in power because his body basically learned how to go to that level which helped him break through his previous limit. Something similar could have happened with Majin Vegeta where simply getting to that level of power once helped inform his body on how to reach it again.
He could have been saying "he passed the wall too" in reference to goku having passed it as well as gohan.
Of course we all know that, but in the video that is stated as evidence that vegeta was already ss2. I think he was already ss2 as well... just do not think that particular comment is 100% evidence.
I think Vegita just did lighter training to keep his body maintained. It’s likely that he was slowly building up his endurance and really pushed himself upon hearing about Goku’s revisit.
Enough to Already be a Super Saiyan 2 prior to the Buu Saga
yeah im just always curious how much stronger he was than youth cell saga gohan was? 50%? 100%? 300%? i wish i could know the gap but considering he lasted so long against kid buu while gohan got wrecked by fat buu and nearly beaten by dabura i think that its at least 50%(which is a huge gap btw dont underestimate it)
@@queenofdarkness3341 yeah power scaling in DB is incredibly weird where even a 25% gain over the opponent turns it into a one sided blowout (as seen with the recorded 150M vs 120M of goku vs frieza).
I always figured Vegeta at the beginning of the Buu Saga was about even with the power SSJ2 Gohan had against Cell. That’s how ridiculously powerful Gohan was, that it took Vegeta nearly 7 years of intense training to catch up! Obviously Gohan however had gotten much weaker in that time.
But Goku had stayed ahead of Vegeta. Because Goku could go SSJ3, his power at SSJ2 was more than Vegeta’s was. That’s when Vegeta decided to start making comments that would get Babidi’s attention and he’d get the Majin Boost to close the gap.
I have always believed that leading up to the Majin boost Vegetas issue was not that he wasn't in the ballpark of Gokus power level but that he was struggling with his mental state, a change in character.
Since the arrival of the androids, he's been increasingly struggling with his new identity as a protector and father. I seem to remember android 20 commenting on Vegeta being unfocused. During the cell Saga, he now comes into a power level where he could casually destroy the earth, or at least that point is repeatedly made that an accidental shot could cause that.
He's gone from fighting with everything he has to annihilate his opponents to having to hold back and question himself. Goku doesn't have to do that to fill this role. He prefers to fight calm and we see this with their Ultra transformations in super.
I think what we see is him using the Majin transformation to remove his self imposed doubt and limits, to let him bring his full strength to bare and when he fights buu, I think we see him learning to finally accept his limits and change his priorities by fighting the seal itself.
Laughing stock media: how much power did vegeta gain?
Me: Enough to stop waiting on goku
I think you can pinpoint his training to his knowledge and realization of the birth of Goten.
He found new purpose of his son rivaling the power of the spitting image of Goku.
What everyone forgets is that when a Dragonball character boasts about surpassing another, it's usually only by a difference of like 10-1000 in the Battle Power scale. Especially if they're only going off memory and not feats.
Definitely don’t forget that Gohan was scared and holding back even during the beam struggle.
Even if Cell wasn’t distracted by Vegeta, he might have had enough power to take him down anyway, and this is with him saying he was already at half Ki from the injury. Gohan was afraid of destroying things on accident. Goku tells him that he hasn’t used up all his power and confirms that he’s holding back because he’s afraid of destroying Earth. He tells Gohan to let it go and the dragon balls can fix anything he does.
I think the manga does this scene better IMO because it feels like what happens isn’t that Vegeta distracts Cell. Rather, the manga shows Cell is toying with Gohan a bit before using his full power which would have obliterated him instantly. Gohan and Goku are having the argument that Gohan is holding back. Right when Goku tells Gohan it’s okay to destroy the Earth as long as they have access to dragon balls (I’m assuming they’d come up with a plan to use Namek’s), Cell tells him “Goodbye” like he’s just about to blow him to pieces before Gohan is really ready to go all out. At that exact second, Vegeta blasts Cell in the head. It doesn’t seem to weaken Cell at all, it’s just that it surprises him for the extra split second for Gohan to be persuaded to go all in before Cell used his full power first while Gohan was still afraid.
Further, I think the fact that even a half powered Gohan was stronger than Cell is supported by the fact that Cell just stood there and took the beam with a surprised look on his face. Gohan was not able to dodge the attack from Cell because it was designed to wipe out the entire solar system, but there’s no reason why Cell wouldn’t have been able to dodge Gohan even if Gohan’s attack would do the same. He wasn’t physically impaired in anyway like Gohan was as well. I think that indicates the fact that he literally could not dodge the attack.
Crazy to think what Gohan could have done at his full power back then.
I think at the 15:20 mark when Vegeta says to himself that "Goku passed the Super Saiyan wall, too"; He could be referring to Gohan and not himself.
I do think he trained with no breaks for the time skip because of comments like. "Gohan has gotten soft in this time of peace. He's no warrior". Which implies he continued training even with no goal.
Had vegeta and trunks trained together like goku and gohan in the cell saga. No doubt vegeta would have gone ssj2 and trunks as well cause both would have found a common element to use to get stronger.
Vegeta shittalking Buu is the best. His pride is his the key to his toughness.
Vegeta when he’s about to fight Goku SSJ 2 mocks him saying at least Goku is stronger than his son when he was fighting cell.
So we know that he was at least a fair bit stronger than SSJ 2 Gohan from cell games (otherwise why would he mock Goku that way). I also don’t think going Majin gave him a power boost, I think it just got rid of whatever shred of humanity he had picked up living on earth, restoring his ruthlessness.
The only reason goku lost the 19 fight is because the virus he had
It also didn't help that Goku used Super Saiyan against Android 19. When I watched Kai subbed, Vegeta stated that turning Super Saiyan actually weakens the immune system to a degree, which messed up Goku's fight
15:15 this statement by Vegeta can also refer to Gohan.
He knows from the fight against Cell that Gohan went over the Super Saiyan.
Now he has seen that Goku has also gone over the Super Saiyan.
Later he says himself that it was exactly at this point that he decided that he needed a boost to be able to keep up with Goku and even went so far as to let Babidi control him to be on Goku's level , which he briefly showed at Yakon.
So it clearly means that either Vegeta has also surpassed the Super Saiyan but is not as strong as Goku or he has not yet reached the real Super Saiyan 2 aka Ultra Saiyan like Gohan and Goku.
All respect to vegeta for sticking to it and catching up, at least he didn’t let himself go and became fat.
I never understood why they did train in the chamber and bring the the gravity chamber in it
Vegeta was stronger than 18 but she wore him down with her
infinite stamina
Gohan and Trunks should of went in to the hyperbolic time chamber after Goku and Gohan first used it. Trunks would of caught up in strength to Gohan, and Gohan may or may not have achieved SSJ2 in a way that he could of controlled. Obviously he achieved it briefly with Goku, and he wouldn’t be on the same level during the Cell fight.
I understand why Goku and Vegeta wouldn’t train together at this time, but the 2 half sayians would have been more willing to learn from each other.
Vegeta got ridiculously strong during the cell saga that he let cell get stronger cause he wanted a challenge
Vegeta got screwed during the Cell saga... how was he weaker than a Cell Jr despite two trips to the Time Chamber?!? Toriyama got that wrong
The manga and anime for Z are pretty interchangable. The movies can all fit if you change 1 or 2 details. The Legacy of Goku series tried to incorporate some movies into the main story to some success.
The main difference is obviously extra scenes (examples being Goku going Super Kaioken vs Pikkon) in the anime, and certain lines not being mentioned that were in the manga like Goku to telling Vegeta they'd both be killed if they fought base Super Buu, or Kid Buu being the most dangerous Buu, but not necessarily the strongest. Buuhan is the strongest. It makes no sense that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan.
And yeah, Super Buu is stronger too, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to separate Buu. Even in the anime they note he is getting stronger (Buff Buu), but then aren't impressed by Kid Buu's reveal. Yes, they underestimate Kid Buu's relentless ferocity, but his raw power is another story. They mention how Fat Buu lost a lot of his power when he split into Good and Pure Evil Buu, and Good Buu is the one that Kid Buu destroyed. If you look at it, Kid Buu is Pure Evil Buu minus all of the raw power he gained from transformations. Only Grand Supreme Kai weakened him. Super Buu is so strong that...they had to exclude him from FighterZ.
Mike welcome back! Just letting you know the algorithm seems to be working very smoothly for you. I have not seen one of your videos since you last said goodbye then all of a sudden you are now popping up like crazy, even the old videos as this one I wanted to make a quick appearance on to inform you! Glad to have you back I like the new look
puh, his power level is probably over 9000 now
what people dont realize is vegeta awakened ssj2 in the time skip - it was not because of the majin.
How much power did Vegeta gain while training with Bulma?
Vegeta: Yes.
He became much stronger than Cell. Especially after the Majin boost. When Goku powered up to SSJ2 Vegeta wasn't bothered by it at all. I know power levels really start to go out the window during Buu saga but it really makes you realize how big of a gap there is between SSJ2 and 3.
Off topic, but it's always seemed silly to me that the Z fighters didn't get Old Kai to unlock all of their potential. Goku and Vegeta would be as strong as SSJ3 in their base forms.
Please trunks is the only sane one because all of them not just goku agreed to let the androids come so it go against there martial artist pride
I really don't believe ssj3 goku could have killed fat buu. I think people keep forgetting that fat buu was merged with several kias and evil buu.
And?
When Vegeta notes that Goku has surpassed the Saiyan Wall, "too", he's referencing Gohan. That's why he's not smirking in the next panel. He's unamused that he's the only one who hasn't been able to surpass the barrier.
7:30 lmao Goku looks hilarious in that top right panel
When Majin Vegeta and Goku are fighting. When they break or before they fight, there is a conversation between the two, where they discuss years and how Vegeta had kept up with Goku regardless of intense training off world etc
The gap I have between Pre Majin Vegeta and Cell Games Gohan is the same gap I have between Pre RoSaT Goku and Vegeta in the Artificial Human arc. During the Cell Games I have Goku 30% stronger than Vegeta, and I have that same gap between Pre Majin Vegeta and Boo arc Goku. Since Vegeta was so desperate that he needed Babidi just to catch up to Goku, clearly showing he couldn't tactics and his skill to make up for the gap. But that's just me.
I have Pre Majin Vegeta and Cell Games Gohan the same level if not the latter being a tad bit weaker
@@UniVS427 I can see that side of it too, because the way Vegeta talks, he sounds like Cell Games Gohan is still the benchmark. So he would have to be either equal or slightly stronger.
I thought Vegeta didnt achieve SS2 till he was taken over by Babidi, he see's Goku use it to kill Yakon and isn't that what makes him want the power boost from Babidi because Goku had achieved SS2 and he had not.
How much power did vegeta gain between the cell saga and the buu saga?
Me: OVER 9000
Goku: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?
9000 x 100k 😂
One thing that you guys said which fanboys disregard is that Goku always had some to help with training when Vegeta always catches on his own.
dr brief and babidi helped vegeta though
Interesting how Super Saiyan Grade 3 and Super Saiyan 3 both run into issues. Grade 3 having a power/speed instability issue and Super Saiyan 3 having a power conservation issue. Two forms Vegeta dismissed.
When it comes to fighting he's a genius - piccolo
I don't think any of the characters are Mastered Super Saiyans anymore. After Cell, they no longer stay in their SSJ form. And as explained during that time, Mastered SSJ keeps the energy they would have used up initiating the transformation and negates the energy drain of SSJ. But we see in later fights that these characters can still get knocked out of SSJ, even though before, we saw Goku and Gohan sleeping as SSJs. So basically if they don't stay in the form, they lose the Mastered SSJ, just like if you stop working out, you lose strength and stamina.
Or there’s no need to and training in base is more effective
@@AllMight6 I don't think that is the case. Training while transformed gets the body accustomed to maintaining that form while also getting stronger naturally. Similar to what happened during the Cell arc and in Dragon Ball Super with the Blue transformation. The gains you get while transformed will likely be the same as normal, just with the added bonus of your body being more used to the transformation.
Up until the Tournament, Gohan back in the Cell Games was the strongest being Vegeta had witnessed, so his aim was to stronger than that. Same thing happened when he saw Goku and Trunks 3 years before the Androids. Those were the benchmarks he had to overcome. But since he was partly training Kid Trunks during the 7 years, he wasn't able to more cleanly surpass Gohan. Not until Babidi's magic.
Wrong.. training with someone else is how you get stronger hence kakarot surpassing Vegeta in the cell saga because Vegeta trained alone while Gohan and kakarot trained together...he surpassed Gohan's ssj 2 but needed the boost to match Kakarot's ssj 2
I'm so thankful, as a Vegeta fan, that the Funimation dub pays a bit more respect to Vegeta in terms of where he was after 7 years of training and what Babidi did compared to the Manga:
I know Gohan was the ultimate measure of potential but good Lord, it's been 7 years. Is Toriyama really expecting me to believe Vegeta didn't surpass his Ssj2 in 7 years of training? From 'Impressive, you're stronger than Gohan was when he fought Cell' to 'Well...at least you're stronger than your Son was against Cell.' I like that. It's subtle and it's dub exclusive but it puts a stamp on Vegeta exceeding Gohan who was the benchmark up to this point (before the craziness of Ssj3 and Mystic and Gotenks).
And as I say, same as with Babidi, it retains Vegeta's integrity as a character and as a warrior when in the dub, he says 'Now, allow me to RESTORE your power to the way it was before you began resisting your dark nature'. Whereas in the Manga it really does Vegeta dirty with Babidi saying 'I'll release his hidden powers and allow him to overcome his limits' essentially confirming in the manga that Vegeta was way behind Goku even at Ssj2 let alone Ssj3.
I definitely prefer the Anime for those little changes in Vegeta's favour. Small, but appreciated.
I present you guys facts....If Vegeta and Goku trained together in the hyperbolic chamber rather than train with their sons Cell would have been annihilated.
I don't think so
Vegeta would have benefited by training with anyone. Iron sharpens iron. That's whats so impressive about Vegeta is that he got all his power by himself. Would be like a boxer becoming world champion without ever having a sparring partner and relying solely on punchbags.
@@LGTGHOSTHUNTING do you know what's impressive about goku he was born with a powerless of 2 adult goku during the saiyan saga(no kaioken) was weaker than 12 year old vegeta and baby broly
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A saiyan's biggest weakness is his pride. It's proven time and time again from the fight with Raditz where Raditz was toying with them which costed him his life all the way to Gohan toying with Buu and every thing else in between. The only one who wasn't prideful was Future Trunks. He made sure to get the job done every chance he got.
Another good point about the majin vegeta vs. goku fight, is that Goku was dead for that fight. This made him way more durable and efficient with energy. If nothing else, Majin allowed Vegeta to negate this disadvantage, which he did, as the two were dead even in that fight. So I don't see majin as giving Vegeta ssj2, rather I see it as giving him a boost to equal a dead goku. (Think of that henchman who fought videl. The Z fighters were amazed at his durability and energy reserves while he was majin..)
goku dosen't have that previlage in living world. it's only effective in other world or kais world
I must admit these constant powerups and transformations that Goku and Vegeta keep getting in the Dragonball series I am tiring of. Also this constant hate Vegeta has for Goku and this wanting to surpass Goku in strength I'm also tiring of. At least at the end of Z it seems that they do get along better. In Super it seems to me at least that Vegeta doesn't get along well with Goku at all and only fights with him when he feels like it or when it's necessary for the plot to advance further.
Yeah one of the main reasons I don't really like super is because some of the characters had their character development reset.
They get along pretty well, not sure what you watched? Vegeta actually treats him like a sibling he gets annoyed of constantly but clearly has love for and it’s pretty easy to spot. They even joke with each other more. Also why would he not want to continue to pass Goku in terms of strength. It’d be just like athletes who are at the highest level constantly trying to out perform or find ways to be and get better than their counterparts. They both love fighting and both have a competitive drive to be better than the other so what’s the issue with that?
The transformations are definitely tiring when they lack originality, but i actually liked the transformation they added but the execution was terrible. There’s no way everyone got a power up to obtain God ki in super and they basically wasted the red hair transformation. That definitely could’ve lasted until the tournament of power because it’s such a crazy boost in power from where they were. I also hated how when Goku fought Jiren he basically did nothing to him, that was retarded.
@@cheerioss-9121 I hadn't thought of their rivalry that way. I do see your points though I haven't read the manga on the Moro and Granola Sagas
@@plains7000 I haven’t either. I’m more of a casual watcher of the show. Don’t think i’ll read it, but if they do release new episodes i’ll probably tune in. Hopefully they develop Goten and Trunks though. I’d also be looking for more story development and less villains and arcs that don’t make any sense. I’d rather just goofy episodes where they mess around, train, develop more characters build relationships. Or even where they fight a few villains but easily over power them, because again it’d be nice to see that God transformation actually means something.
I feel that Vegeta was still training during the 7 year skip but once he surpassed Gohan he had no Goku around that would've kept striving to be the strongest. You have to remember that after goku died, Gohan focused more on becoming a scholar. So he never tried to surpass Vegeta.
After Vegeta saw Super Saiyajin Goku use his 50% of his full power he decided to surpass that "top" Goku showed, for me Vegeta after using for a second time the Time Chamber got to around 70 to 75% of Super Saiyajin Goku´s full power, that is the middle between the already shown power by Goku, but clearly weaker than his full power that he use to fight Cell
Now in the Buu saga after 7 years of constant training, Vegeta already had seen Super Saiyajin 2 Gohan against Super Perfect Cell, so he knew how powerfull they were (as the where the two most powerfull fighters of that time), so believing that Vegeta did not try to achive that power is ilogic concidering how is the personality of Vegeta
In conclusion, Vegeta at the Cell games had a power around 70 to 75% of Super Saiyajin Goku, and after the 7 years of training he got AT LEAST as powerfull as Super Saiyajin 2 Gohan
You can't be serious yes Vegeta got retained the power that babidi gave him.
Vegeta could have been saying "so goku surpassed ss2 wall too" in reference to gohan, just saiyan
He became stronger than ssj2 gohan and super perfect cell
Let's say SS2 max power is 6 million. I would put Young Gohan at 4.5 million and Super Perfect Cell at 4 million. That would mean Goku and Majin Vegeta were at 5.9 Million.
@@MetaITurtle I would put ssj2 goku and ssj2 majin vegeta at 6 million. And gohan and cell at cell. Cuz I think that gohan and cell are almost equal, or gohan might be a tiny bit stronger than him
Great video
Maybe he went from a power level of like 2 to like a 3.1
Nah more like 3.05
Vegeta was likely talking about Gohan with that 'goku surpassed ss too'
Poor Vegeta went to the trouble of using magic to reach Goku's level only to not only fail at that but gets outdone by a piece a chewing gum and a rusty Gohan who only trained for a day😆😆👍🏾👍🏾
Not to mention goku held back
It made their SSJ2 forms equal because Goku was more powerful because he was dead. Oh yeah and Vegeta only lost to Buu because Buu kept regenerating and Gohan didn't train for a day, the process that Elder Kai had where he walked around Gohan and chanted just takes an entire day.
Actually I think that's fair for Vegeta to use a power boost against Goku. Now read me out here, remember Goku kept his "physical" body in other world. We let that slide for some reason, when actually that's cheating way more than Vegeta lol.
@@MetaITurtle I agree, his dead body was more powerful because it didn't take as much damage as his living body does or something like that.
Audience: how much stronger did vegeta get in buu saga?
Akira: yes.
13:33 and on. it sounds so mess up the fact they might imagining slaughtering gohan in there image training.
The other way around
Whenever I watched Dragon Ball Z Gohan was my favorite character because he was just such a well rounded and Amazing Character it was also astonishing seeing how strong Gohan was and he was JUST A KID!!! Then I started watching Super and all I can say is I am so disappointed on how they did my boy Gohan cuz now he is just a Nerdy Dad that can't even go Super Saiyan 2 as easily as he used to I just wish they would've maybe kept him as a main character like Vegeta but I don't know man I am just sad on how they did him in Super thanks for listening to my rant
Not enough