Buu Saga Gohan Vs Super Perfect Cell: Who Would Win?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- Super Saiyan 2 Buu Saga Gohan Vs Super Perfect Cell: Who Would Win? @LSMMIKE explains that in this Dragon Ball Z video featuring the DBZ anime and manga.
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Cell was just a more polished fighter with no experience just bioengineered to be the best. The Gohan vs Dubura fight was a watermark to how sloppy his instincts had become.
I think Super Perfect Cell would overcome him as Cell knows how powerful he is.
If they fight and no villain stuff happens like cell kills videl or something , cell wins, if cell decides to be foolish and do just that tho, gohan wins
@@kuru-yami9416 I could see that.
@@kuru-yami9416I say pre Kaioshin planet
Cell Stomps Gohan but post Kaioshin Planet SJ2 Gohan would stomp Super perfect cell
not a stomp but med to high difficulty for cell, Gohan is not powerless just rusty.
Do you think that Super Perfect Cell would be able to match the power of SSJ2?
Probably equal in power, until gohan taps into a emotion rage boost.
What😭
Ssj2 is the result of the rage boost thats all he got
@@reptilian_geneticisthuh? He wasn’t stronger than ss2 gohan at all he was close in power
@@reptilian_geneticisthere do you get that scaling from? SPC didn’t turn SS2, he got a zenki. In fact when he came back in the manga, Gohan wasn’t scared or worried at all sensing his power. He actually looked at him like ‘bring it on you bitch’. It wasn’t until Gohan got injured that the fight took a turn.
@@reptilian_geneticistall that is implied with that statement is that he received a power up. A multiplier of 2x is not stated. And it’s a bad assumption. It’s a zenki, which is also stated by cell. We know zenki boosts allow a Saiyan to increase their power to match the enemy or threat that nearly killed them. If Gohan held back his power as a SS2 then Cell had an increase to that level of power Gohan was at. Cells boost could be 1.5, 1.7 or whatever. Hell it could be 2.5 if you believe Gohan got more than the 2x boost with SS2. Either way, SPC still wasn’t stronger than Gohan at full power.
Dr Gero is an amazing scientist and it's incredible he created several experimental fighters that can wipe out ssj but a sick mind and he passed that down to Cell as a creation especially. While Cell was induced with alot of useful copycat techniques he also had a lot of glaring mentality flaws thanks to all the personality traits infused in him including pride, ego, narcissistic personality disorder etc.
You could argue he got those flaws from the androids he absorved. He started to become more confident if not cocky after absorbing 17. His fear when Vegeta was pounding him was similar to how much 17 was fearing cell after getting his ego shattered.
He should ran for president.
@@Vazio3he also got them from Frieza
He was an average fighter, but he was a brilliant scientist
Dr Gero’s androids are one of the biggest potholes in all of dragonball. How was he able to create robots 10s of times stronger than the emperor of the galaxy that ruled over hundreds of planets, in a cave with earth tech that isn’t even capable of space travel ? Bulma had to use Namek tech to make the first interstellar spaceship.
Adult Gohan absolutely mogs Cell. Full power SSj2 Gohan in the Cell Saga would have been incomprehensibly more powerful than even Super Perfect Cell, as seen by him literally stating "But I only have half my Chi left" and still beating Cell's Solar Kamehameha.
You outdid yourself with this one, “Adult” Gohan is beyond slept on even to this day
Preach. Very good video and solid points. Most of the commenters I don't even think watched the video. They just came in to give their opinions right away
Lol @ Adult. He's 16 by the time the Buu Saga starts.
Also that version of Gohan out of all others fell ass backwards into his powers.
@@willdiesel8431 you clearly ignored the quotation marks beside adult just like you clearly ignored any details about Gohan
@@RowdyKage yeah sure buddy. Tell yourself whatever you need to in order to save face.
Goof Troop.
@@willdiesel8431 Jeez, what crawled up your ass? And besides, everyone calls 10-11 year old Gohan teen Gohan, so it only makes sense to call him "adult" Gohan and 16 is a young adult, he was nearly 17 because Japanese schoolyears start in April, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't even 11 fighting Cell but about to turn 11.
I think the fight could go either way, but I do lean towards Gohan for a couple of reasons.
1) I'm in the camp that the story implies Kid Gohan was significantly stronger than Cell even after he became Super Perfect, so Buu Saga Teen Gohan should have still been at least even or a bit above SP Cell in terms of power.
2) I've seen it argued that Cell has better fighting sense and has more techniques, but he has couple glaring weaknesses. Like Vegeta and Frieza, Cell is both extremely arrogant and temperamental. He only shows good fighting sense when he has a substantial advantage. We've never really seen him fight someone on equal terms (not counting his final beam struggle with Gohan). The closest we got was Goku and Cell was still holding back. When he was losing against SSJ2 Gohan, who was way stronger, Cell quickly lost all fighting sense and immediately tried to power up as much as he could, abandoning all strategy and technique. Fighting someone more or less evenly I could see it going two ways: Either Cell starts to get the upper-hand, becomes cocky and makes a crucial mistake or he gets frustrated that he can't gain the upper-hand and becomes increasingly reckless also leading to a crucial mistake. Either way he's prone to giving away the fight.
3) For some reason, people sometimes state Cell would get a zenkai boost either from coming back from the dead to fight Gohan or recovering from injuries during the battle. You don't get a zenkai coming back from the dead. Cell got the zenkai boost because he never died, he was just reduced to his core. Cell's ability to get zenkai boosts from battles is basically negated by his regeneration. He never gets "seriously" injured enough to receive them. Likely recovering from an attack that reduces him to his core is the only way he can get one.
4) This part is mostly speculative and a bit headcanon-y but hear me out. While Teen Gohan is overall weaker than Kid Gohan I think he might have some advantages. He does seem to be more mature and has lost some of the timidness that was holding Kid Gohan back during the Cell Games. Kid Gohan was extremely daunted by his own power and seemed only to be able to use his full power while enraged. While that made him a very formidable fighter, it also made him much more prone to being clouded by his anger and losing his judgement. By the Buu Saga Gohan seems much more comfortable using his power consistently. His fighting skills are rusty, but he's able to fight with a clear and level head while still making full use of his power (mostly). In that regard, I think this version Gohan is well-suited to fighting Cell who tends to attempt to either take advantage of his enemy's pride (Vegeta) or their lack of confidence (Trunks) with mind games. Teen Gohan should be able to avoid both those traps and focus on the battle.
Love this!
This is an amazing response, and very well crafted
first of all gohan is NOT stronger than spc that is just blatantly wrong, not only did spc literally one shot gohans arm and yes he was ON guard but its stated in several guide books that cell is the strongest once he appears post zenkai, not only that you may say well gohan killed him, gohan was getting amped by goku during the beam struggle, now that we know spc was stronger that instantly kills the fighting sense argument, and with gohan being outright weaker than his cell saga counterpart, cell is most likely stomping him with ease
@@runin12 you really typed a whole paragraph only to be wrong 😂
@@runin12 you can't be that stupid. Gohan was fighting at 50% of his power during that beam struggle and still obliterated SPC. SSJ2 completely outclassed him at every point after ascending.
If Gohan doesn't get the job done after hanging with h2h and weakening him before going in with a big blast to completely disintegrate him, Cell might recieve another zenkai. This could go either way. This isn't even to mention Cell's advantage of z fighter's techniques and instant transmission. This may be more difficult than Dabura.
It's funny cause in Dragonball FighterZ Cell mentions he can't feel anything of Gohan's past power when they meet again. I know the game is not canon but it's still intriguing.
@@reptilian_geneticist There's so many assumptions here that I don't know where to start
Neither one is EVER pressed in the fight between SSJ Gohan and Cell. Gohan never tries hard and neither does Cell. The only thing to scale that off of would be Goku and Cell's fight, and Goku's belief than Gohan is stronger than he is.
Super Perfect Cell was NOT stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, not by a longshot. For one, when he comes back, Gohan is completely ready to throw down with him. He can sense Ki, he knows (vaguely, at least) how much stronger Cell is compared to before.
He literally destroys him with one arm broken. SSJ2 Gohan was still leagues above Super Perfect Cell.
Keep in mind also, Gohan's decrease in power and complete lack of training and technique.
@@reptilian_geneticist super perfect cell was no way stronger than ssj2 Gohan,equal definatly but not stronger.
Perfect Cell being stronger than SSJ Gohan is an assumption
Super Perfect Cell being stronger than SSJ2 Gohan is an assumption
Daizenshu are "official" but definitely not canon
There's just nothing in the manga to back up these claims. We never see an all out fight between Perfect Cell and SSJ Gohan, and we never see an all out fight between SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell.
You can say "head canon" all you want but I'm not even making any claims here, I'm just saying yours are unsubstantiated
If Gohan had never gotten hurt, the fight between the two could've been another Goku vs Frieza with Gohan winning a Kamehameha clash. Just how I feel
If You Play The Boss Hack In Supersonic Warriors 2,Boss SSJ2 Kid Gohan's Kamehameha Does Way More Damage Than Super Perfect Cell's(Mania Boss)!Adult Gohan Can Win Easily As Well By Simply Getting Above Cell,And Spammin' Gekiretsuhadan!Gohan Wins As Either A Kid Or Adult IMHO!Have You Played This Game?!It's A Literal BLAST!!!!!
gohan outclassed cell in every way and after goku died gohan had 0 reason to let cell live! it would of been over alot faster
@@futuredirector23Intellect, Techniques, Attachments, etc.
@@chimuoma390And if Cell teleports?
@@futuredirector23 Wrong, if he outclassed him he wouldn't have mortally injured him so badly.
I think the Budokai games had a cutscene where SSJ2 Gohan battles Super Perfect Cell before he kills Trunks, indicating Gohan was still more powerful than Cell even after the Zenkai boost.
Can't take game lore as truth, they make shit up all the time
idk the games are non Canon through
@@CharadeTV Yeah like Goku before training in the hyperbolic time chamber fighting again semi perfect Cell and winning 😂
Please, never stop doing those cuts for “VEGETA’S TECHNIQUE” lmfao
I love this gag, stupid Funimation shitty script 😂
Great job!
The way I see the only moment Gohan went all out was with the last Kamehameha, and considering he had only one arm to channeling his power, we probably didn’t see his max at that time.
As I see the “losing half of his power” moment of Gohan, is like he probably didn’t lose any significant amount of Chi but, at the physical level, he lost the capability of channeling that chi on the fight.
And yes, most probably the biggest lost came from his neuro-semantic state.
That makes a lot of sense from a grammatical standpoint. Power =/ Energy.
This makes Sense Considering he still beat Cell with one arm
I personally see it as he lost half of the power he was using, but as we know he has more power than what he thinks he does, so it technically isn't half of his true full power.
Gohan's ki was cut in half because his self doubt as Goku said. To harness ki to the fullest you need to be in the right mindset and have confidence
Baseless assumption, that's not how ki works. Losing an arm doesn't arbitrarily cut your ki in half. If that were the case then why didn't future Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Cell, or Tien never mentioned anything about their ki being cut in half when they lost/injured their arm? Gohan is known for having confidence issues, it's apart of his character. Gohan's arm injury caused him to have a mental nerf and made him think he was at 50%. Goku later shuts down that theory by convincing him that he wasn't really down to 50% and it was all in his head. After Goku tells him this Gohan.
I feel like most of these comments think Super Perfect cell was stronger than ssj2 gohan but this couldn’t be further from the truth cell only stood a chance after Gohans arm had been damaged and he lost half his ki before hand gohan was confident he could fight cell and was even eager to do so, so regardless I want to just make it clear the real power difference between gohan and cell
If cell was so much weaker than Gohan then how did a blast cell intend for vegeta cripple gohan so much to begin with?
And don’t tell me he was off guard either he saw cell sim directly at vegeta and rushed to intercept and wasn’t fast enough… compare this to before where cell couldn’t even touch gohan… gohan was stronger than cell but the gap wasn’t large.
@@silentstandbecause he underestimated Cell's power increase like he states after the fact.
That’s the whole issue with Dragonball Z, the scaling is inconsistent, Gohan gets injured by Cell when Gohan protects Vegeta from a blast from Cell but Gohan holds up with 1 arm in the kamehameha battle. But everyone is forgetting Cell was bothered by a blast by Vegeta while in the kamehameha battle.
@@snake909 Probably not
Is my favorite moment of debora is in other world when he's picking flowers with bulma and chi chi
I'm giving it to Cell. Yes, I'm willing to bet that even with the drop in power that Gohan had during the 7 years between Cell's defeat and when he began going to high school; SS2 Gohan would still be above Super Perfect Cell. However, not by a huge margin...
Gohan's lack of fighting sense will prove to be a handicap. Remember that not only was Cell Saga Gohan at the peak of his fighting senses (3 years of training with Goku & Piccolo + 1 year of Time Chamber training with Goku), but Goku fought Cell FIRST for the purpose of seeing Cell's fighting style/how he moved so that Gohan had somewhat of a blueprint to go off of when it was his turn to battle.
Cell with the huge power boost after blowing himself up, Instant Transmission and his other bag of tricks including regeneration; Gohan would get stomped.
Yes, I know he did SOME training with Goten to get his fighting senses back and body used to combat again before the tournament. However, you must remember that a good chunk of time was spent teaching Videl and Goten to use their ki in order to fly. From there, he and Goten did do SOME training but it really wasn't enough to get Gohan back in top form. Even Goku pointed out how sloppy Gohan was fighting against Dabura.
I'm sure if Gohan put enough power into a single attack; he'd win. However, I think Cell would take the fight. We still don't know if Goku was comparing Dabura to Perfect or Super Perfect Cell. If it WAS S.P. Cell then Gohan is done for because of the sloppy job he did trying to keep up with Dabura!
I think Gohan would win because a ssj2 is just naturally stronger than cell, even when Gohan was one handed when having that beam struggle with him he still killed cell( albeit with a distraction from Vegeta and motivation from Goku in otherworld).
@@justinarzola4584 no. it goes both ways.
Did you not watch the whole video? Gohan really didn't lose much power, he wasn't full power until attacking Buus shell because he wasn't rage amped like as a kid. I don't think Vegeta really understands the situations well and how Gohan can't just go full power whenever he wants to like Vegeta or Goku, pure bloods could.
@@justinarzola4584see that's the thing though Gohan was at his best the moment he cut loose once Cell was distracted. Was Buu Saga SS2 Gohan stronger than one armed-han in THAT moment of the beam struggle?
Honestly, I don't know...
I mean we could look at the Kamehameha SS2 Gohan fired at Buu's ball and compare that to the one fired at Cell. I think Cell Saga Gohan still has the superior power.
As Vegeta AND Goku stated to 'Adult Gohan'; we don't know what happens if he snaps/once you let loose there ain't nobody that can beat you.
IMO the only time in the Buu Saga we ALMOST saw Gohan cut loose was when Videl was getting her skull crushed in her tournament match...
@@Valientlink Yes, I did. However, that still doesn't take away from my OPINION that one armed-han's Kamehameha at MAX power before Cell died was stronger than the one fired at Buu's ball.
Gohan was WAY weaker at the beginning of the Buu Saga! Vegeta says so! Super Perfect Cell I think is much more powerful than Dabura because of Goku saying to the Supreme Kai “Dabura’s not that tough, Cell was tough!” and Gohan was struggling against Dabura.
I can't believe no one has ever done a What if Vegeta never Rushed Cell - So we could see how a normal fight would have taken place
Likely Gohan. He simply powered into ssj2 at the tournament and as mentioned likely suppressed some as to not blow half the place up. Either way he wasn't rage amped like as a kid. If Cell killed people he loved and cherished like Krillin, Goten or Videl though, he'd probably surpass the power when he was a kid.
Gohan snapped at 16's death and the idea that his friends will die if he doesn't let his power run wild. So it really depends what Cell does or threatens to do. Given he's got the genes of 2 Saiyans, especially Vegeta, he doomed himself the entire time, trying to awaken Gohan's power and then waiting until Gohan was ready to fight back one armed to fire off his Kamehameha. Even Goku who knew Gohan hadn't kept up on his training reninded Gohan to fight with his emotions and he'd never lose to anyone.
Buu is a different story because nobody was prepared for him and ssj3 was basically retconned and is a pretty bad form anyway as we could see just how horrible the strain was and that Buu's regeneration made it hard to keep up.
Regardless, Goku still had that much faith in his son's ability to generate tremendous power when he fights with his emotions as you showed. And since we're basically just not even thinking about Buu here, I think Gohan is more likely to win.
Early buu saga Gohan was weaker than he was when he was 11, vegeta makes note of that leading up to the dabura fight. His ease into ssj2 is noted but that doesn't indicate he's kept that form as strong as it once was.
Perfect comment. SSJ3 is a bad form because the writing never developed it. Since then plenty of fans who can't think for themselves and lack imagination just took that as canon, and never tried to develop it. But they did make shit tons of moronic theories to justify bad writing tho.
It would be a way more even fight this time around
I’m surprised you didn’t use the fact that Goku didn’t think Vegeta could go SS2 until he did it
That part let me know ssj 3 wasn't thought of at the time because if he was "holding back" to protect Vegeta than why was he surprised that Vegeta could go ssj 2
@@Marcus_shawnbecause he simply didn't know that he could do that?
Bro I don’t know what you’re talking about but I’m pretty sure Goku knows Vegeta can go ssj2 when Vegeta has stated more than several times that he can take out Dabura
It could be that he was surprised by how strong Vegeta's ssj2 form was. After all, he did have a majin boost.
Even if Gohan is rusty, he shouldn't be weaker than super Cell, as Gohan's power depends on his emotional level more so than by how much he trains.
@@reptilian_geneticistohan beat cell soooo keep spewing nonsense
If that was the case. Gohan would have gone ss2 vs raditz. His training is directly correlated to the amount of his potential he can bring out.
@@reptilian_geneticistGohan’s ssj2 power wasn’t just a 2x boost. If that was the case, FP perfect cell would’ve been on par or a little stronger than Gohan and we seen what happened in that fight so…
@@reptilian_geneticist who is to say that Buu saga Gohan wouldn't get enraged and beat cell through the anger amp. After all Dabura didn't even try to block angry Gohan's blast he immediately grabbed Babidi and jumped away
@@reptilian_geneticist tell me you didn't watch the whole video without telling me you didn't watch the whole video. Oh wait, your comment lol
I wish the Cell Games were like a actually tournament like Perfect Cell would have the Cell Jrs before he destroyed the Ring then the Cell Jrs would fight the Z Fighters one on one at a time
Yeah it was very one sided in cell's favor, I wish there were other fighters besides cell to make it more like a traditional fighting tournament,cell's ego meant he only wanted others to fight him to test himself and not have fighters go against other fighters.
@@justinarzola4584 and yet he only fought Goku and Gohan
@justinarzola4584
Bruh what?
@@willdiesel8431 what part of my comment you didn't understand?
@justinarzola4584 the pointless aspect of it all.
Everyone understood this was a fight for the fate of the Earth, there was not only no time for shenanigans but well all know the Sayains would take over.
I mean duh.
I would say Buu Saga Gohan would win against Super Perfect Cell because even though Gohan had gotten rusty over not training during the seven years between the Cell Arc and Buu Arc he still has all that power inside him he just needs motivation to release all that power.
That's assuming something happens to make him loose his temper. A what if.
Straight up fight super perfect cell wins easily.
Higher power level.
Sharper fighting skills.
Mastery of the special techniques of all of earth most powerful warriors.
The ability to instantly produce offspring as powerful (or some percentage) as you.
Some the frost demons he can breathe in space, from the Saiyan's he grows more powerful after recovering from serious injury, and from papa piccolo he can regenerate as long as a single cell remains intact (android upgrade).
This casual response I just typed while pooping should be pinned.
@@realBatman-89 the only earth warriors cells he has are Vegeta Goku and piccolo and technically none of them are really from earth. The anime makes it seem like he has cells from others. He doesn't have Gohan's, the very cells that annihilated him, even though he said so in the anime. He has Goku, Vegeta, piccolo, Frieza and King Cold in his cells
A real possibility is that cell doesn't give gohan anything to rage over. You gotta remember he has cells from fighters such as piccolo tien and frieza so he'd probably fair much better through strategy this time. He isnt even phased as much by his pride as a lot of the Saiyan's cells he has. I think with the blessing of hindsight and the ability to potentially train with cell juniors or clones would really aid him. Plus I've never liked the flakiness and chicken heading gohan has always exhibited.
Tbh this time, I feel Gohan would go for the kill against Cell,I don't think he'd rush in,however buu arc gohan did lose some fighting sense. he was so quick to try to stop Babidi and Dabura, a shame he didn't immediately kill Buu though when he was Ultimate.
Cool, to know that you are a fan of the Boondocks cartoon it is a nice choice that they choose the anime Aesthetics for it.
Vegeta said gohan was stronger as a kid.
Don't even have to watch the video.
Great video topics lately, Mike. Like the video length too since I primarily watch/listen to your videos while doing choirs and whatnot.
My biggest issue with this debate every time is that I think people confuse Gohan holding back with him being uncomfortable fighting seriously. He had the power, but he needed the wisdom. That’s why goku’s words were so pivotal.
My biggest issue is that people think dabura is stronger than cell, even though it's just stated that he's around cell's level which might indicate him being weaker or stronger when comparing just power levels, and that when goku states dabura is tougher than he thought he's nor referring to his power level being greater than he thought but just the fact tat dabura can use magic which makes the fight trickier.
Movie timeline gohan, would smash Canon Super Perfect Cell.
Yeah M10 SSJ2 Gohan would destroy SPC easy
@BrianAwesome Broly fanboy saying BS in order to convince people that Broly is stronger than Cell 😂 i love the DragonBall community ❤.
@@UniVS427 EXACTY !
Speaking of which, I'm itching to do a fan video/fiction..
On what if the canon and non Canon Z heroes, switched places.
Like what if M10 Gohan switched places with his canon self (b4 world tournament) ?
What if m5 Goku switched places with canon Goku during the 3 yr time skip ?
@@BrianAwesome do all of em
Love your videos bro!! Keep ‘em coming.
This was a great video. I definitely have new respect for buu saga Gohan
Friezas "version of the destructo disk" is called (DEATH SAUCER)
one of my Favorite of his attacks!
I would like to see a who would win regular Perfect Cell or super sayian 1 Gohan from the cell games that went all out.
Super perfect Cell was equal to Gohan but Ki works like Life and spiritual energy, if you're defeated mentally, you're weaker and the enemy will underestimate you
a fully healthy, full ki having, two arm having SSJ2 kid gohan was stronger than Super Perfect Cell and it wasn't close.
Again, really depends on how it's written. I think Gohan is still stronger, and if Cell decides to have limited energy again he will probably lose, and if Gohan got angry he would annihilate Cell. But who knows? Maybe he will be stupid again and this time not be strong enough to win anyway. Maybe Cell could regenerate from almost nothing again and become Super Super Perfect Cell, or Super Cell 2. Maybe he could use a Kaiouken x100 Shin Kikouhou and one-shot even Ultimate Gohan. Maybe he could run away to space and train off-screen and come back as Golden Cell. Maybe he could become Cell-X. Maybe he could absorb 17 and 18 again and become Perfecter Cell.
Gohan would definitely not make that mistake with Cell again, he probably lived with years of regret due to Goku needing to sacrifice himself. Regardless it would've all been a traumatic memory for him, the whole fight even if Goku didn't die. That was a child, this is a young man.
@@Valientlink I don't know, considering his performance against Super Buu, he still looks pretty stupid to me.
@@censoredterminalautism4073 blame Toriyama for not knowing how to write Gohan, not Gohan. The Buu was a total disaster of writing
@@Valientlink Well, yeah, that's why I said the outcome depends on how it's written, it would really go either way because Toriyama does what he wants and just figures out a way to get there. Gohan isn't even the major factor here, Cell himCellf is written incredibly inconsistently. And if he actually used his moves, he would have won very easily. Hell, you could even just write him to blown himself up again. Worked the first time.
Though really, Dragon Ball characters behave pretty irrationally in general. If Cell wanted to, he could have just teleported to the other side of the planet and blown it up.
@@censoredterminalautism4073 Probably the Frieza and some Vegeta in there wanting to see them suffering, especially since that's what Gohan was doing with Cell and was so much more extensive in the manga, plus the Saiyan's DNA wanting to actually have a battle.
Love the boondocks reference Mike, dope vid too
Everyone keeps forgetting that Deborah didn't come out right away he took his time because he chose to meditate to increase his power with the power of the Majin seal only then when he felt he was strong enough did Deborah come out to fight
Next video: 11 year old Gohan vs Dabura
Man another fight I’ve always wondered who would’ve won is actually one of my favorite fights in the entire series from all the way back in Dragon Ball, & that’s Tien Shinhan Vs Jackie Chun aka Master Roshi. Chun threw the fight but later said that Tien might’ve won if they had kept going but Tien said that Roshi was holding back which we see if definitely was bc he never went to his super buff full power form. I’d love to see you do a video about this fight bc I really don’t know who would’ve won but if I had to guess I’d say Roshi/Chun would’ve but would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Tien would win since Roshi was shocked by Goku's power against Krillin, which wasn't even his full power. Tien wrecked that same Goku at the start of the final match. Buff form wouldn't work because it lacks speed and the Kamehameha doesn't work against Tien, stated by Roshi himself.
@@DynastyZwarrior90eah that’s true about the Kamehameha but Roshi still didn’t use his Lightening Surprise technique or any of his other crazy techniques. That’s partially why I love this fight so much bc it’s just straight up blow for blow, locks, body slams, & just a straight up brawl between two refined pros. New generation Vs the old & it’s one of the few fights where we actually see the bruises on each fighter & you can hear the impact of every punch. It was actually a pretty realistic fight for Dragon Ball (besides the few energy blasts & the after image) which is rare but it’s another thing that made this fight so raw.
@@RealTalkOrWalk I don't think Lightning Surprise would work either. Tien had a lot of techniques he didn't use as well like the four witches, volleyball technique, dodon ray etc. Tien was just too strong. Yeah it's one of my favorites as well, good action and also character development.
Imagine in Cell had decided to use the Tri-Beam when attempting to kill Vegeta: he would have killed Vegeta AND Gohan, when Gohan jumped in front of the blast!
Ki level is the car. Ki usage is the gas. Your ran over if your out muscled and worn down if your fully tapped out. Vegeta still getting slapped effortlessly even if Cell was on " E " is similar to how Vegeta vs Z fighters still couldn't kill him after everything was thrown at him. Cell was always outclassed against Gohan. Gohan still outclassed Ginyu in Super and could get blasted full power no death not training. Ki barrier when up is always unsuppressed current power and not based on Ki usage. Which is why Vegeta ki blasts can be way beyond his ki level but he still can't tank against a higher ki level offense
SS2 Gohan was obviously nerfed when he defeated Super Perfect Cell on account of the injury he got while protecting Vegeta.
By Buu Saga he is nerfed by not having been training. It is not unrealistic to think he could STILL defeat Super Perfect Cell, which gives validity to Gokus statement upon seeing Dabura fight, that he may be stronger than "what I thought" (referring to when he compared Dabura to Cell).
toriyama clearly meant for gohan's ssj2 to be "beast gohan" but then he continued the buu saga and made ssj3 ,so hence it's called ssj2 ,clearly that form wasn't the same psychologically wise going forward.
The only power level I care about these days is this man’s beard. Look at the marvellous thing!
Ss2 gohan (post z sword) >> ss2 gohan cell games >= spc > ss2 gohan (pre z sword training)
Why is this a question? Gohan owns easily. Gohan went through 7 years of growth, even if he doesn't train, his body and the potential his grown body allows him, overshadows Cell. Gohan was a child, he wasn't mature in anything, especially his body even if it was a trained body. What Gohan can achieve with his adult body compared to what Super Perfect Cell couldn't do back then would blow Cell's mind.
( You people underestimate how strong SS2 Gohan was back then and you're overestimating SP Cell by quite a bit)
Kid Goku with less power than Gohan was beating beings that by earth standards would be considered Gods, speaking about King Piccolo here, and Goku's growth after that allowed him to beat Piccolo Jr. Sure you're gonna say yeah but Goku trains everyday and i'll say so did Piccolo Jr, so Piccolo Jr has an advantage over King Piccolo fighting adult Goku same as Adult Gohan has over SP Cell purely based on normal growth.
If Goku as an adult could fight King Piccolo from back then he'd beat him easily. Maybe Gohan won't 1 Punch SP Cell but the same logical line of thought still applies. Gohan's natural growth increases his normal power and his potential. A Time Frozen Oponent vs a Time Progressing Oponent is always a victory in favor of Progress.
An interesting thought is: can Cell improve mid fight like Hit? Hit took everything Goku had and still surpassed that and was still improving his power. So can Cell do that?
This is hard to answer because during his fight with Goku, Cell was always superior in Speed and Power. Same as SSG Goku vs Beerus, Beerus is superior end of story here. So from that alone we can't say if Cell was improving mid fight because he was already superior.
SO did Cell improve vs Gohan? Not initially, he was above SS1 Gohan with ease, even if anyone wants to argue SS1 Gohan could output more than shown, yeah boviously he could but he never did because he never wanted to fight. So for that first part of their fight, Gohan didn't really expend much energy at all. This is important for later when Gohan finally goes SS2.
Gohan was basicly a fresh SS2 as opposed to a very tired fighter when he finally snapped. The same is true for Cell, Cell didnt really have to spend any energy to fight Gohan, so again we can't say Cell improved at all mid fight.
Gohan goes SS2, decisively beats Cell, Cell spits out #18, blows himself up and Ressurection Power Boost happens. Ok Cell improved and tremendously because he no longer needs to absorb the same android plus he's even stronger than he was before HOWEVER he lost a beam struggle to an 1 armed Gohan. Yes the 1 arm does a difference and i'll use Bleach to explain why.
Kenpachi always fights with just 1 hand, he swings his sword with only 1 hand and with his predominant hand but when he was having trouble beating Ressurection Nnoitra he decided the fight with a single 2 handed swing so he could cut through NNoitra's hardened Hierro. A SINGLE SWING from 2 HANDS decided that battle. The increase in power was that overwhelming when Kenpachi was actually in a losing battle.
Surely you can try counter argument by saying yeah but Kenpachi didn't even use shikai, he was just using his base, so if he used Shikai he'd 1 handed swing NNoitra dead and that's most likely true, i think so aswell. And my reply is EXACTLY he was in his base, that just demonstrates how frightningly powerful his 2 HANDED swing was. Now imagine him Swinging his Shikai with 2 Hands...
That's exactly what happened with SP Cell vs SS2 Gohan, Gohan was restrained and still output more power than a Completly FRESH POWER BOOSTED CELL. Vegeta's Blast did absolutly nothing besides distracting Cell and Gohan went Full out and eclipsed Cell. Cell couldn't even attempt a struggle back given how overwhelming Gohan's output went in that moment.
Cell wins because:
1. Gohan needed Vegeta and Goku's help to beat Cell the first time
2. Gohan is said to be weaker than he was back then
3. Unless Gohan blows him away in one blast, Cell will outlast him seeing as how they're so close in power
4. If all else fails, Cell could blow himself up or the Earth and then regenerate
will you do dabura vs cell vs bojack next
Before watching the video: my answer is Super Perfect Cell. Buu Saga Gohan (pre-Ultimate Gohan) was weaker than he was against Cell, and he had less fighting instinct.
Super Perfect Cell almost won if Gohan hadn't pulled out absolutely everything he had (at his then peak.)
On top of the fact that Super Perfect Cell has all of Frieza's and the Z fighters' techniques, regeneration + zenkai boosts, and a vendetta... SPC wins this for sure. I would even give him the win over Dabura but I think that'd be closer.
You'll have to be specific. Gohan pre z sword was weaker. Post z sword he was stronger than cell games as a ss2.
@@Jiron127 That's why I already said in my comment (pre-Ultimate Gohan.)
Cell wins, no question.
If Adult Gohan was a fraction of his kid self, then it’s a stomp.
Gohan was sort of right about the injury cutting ki reserves but because of the fatigue of it and not because he was actually the lesser of the two. Pain also messed with focus and had only one hand to use. Still he managed to be able to match SPC in the clash more or less.
Piccolo fared better in the hypersonic lion tamer because he could materialize clone copies of himself for physical training and his mind / ki training is incredible with it. He gained so much in such a short while on King Kai planet just by simply meditating the entire time even though King Kai openly shown him team effort is also just as important than solitude and meditating by showcasing how much the others improved by sparring. In preparation for the Androids his gains were even more incredible and he was just about on par with Goku and Vegeta. Piccolo is always a base fighter and really doesn't need transformation anyways. He explained to Gero while busting his can that he has the upper hand because he is very great at amplifying his base ki into multipliers like a ssj transformation.
I'll take a vodka shot for every time you say "what ends up happening" on the next video, wish me luck
RIP
I certainly don't recommend it.
I like to say that Gohan was like Peter Parker in Spider-Man 2
Can't wait for Mike's and Danny's which is the besy dbz saga
Best*
If a Cell Jr attacks Videl it’s all over
Another great video as always, keep up the great content.
If we're talking about before his Elder Kai awakening then Super Perfect Cell no question. Gohan stopped training cold turkey for basically 7 years and spent a month (even less considering Videl was over and he was trying to hide his and Goten's abilities) just getting back into basic fighting shape but both his power and mental fighting abilities were still far below his Cell saga levels.
Dabura probably could have beaten him even at SSJ2 due to these problems but since he wanted to collect energy for Buu's revival he purposely kept his power down to around Gohan's so the fight would drag on
I’m going to say cell,gohan was having trouble with dabura, someone on the level of cell,and struggling,vegeta was saying he was just toying with gohan.that along with cells regen,ssj2 teen gohan was just that much stronger that he could beat him with one arm
He wasn't fully powered against dabura though. I feel like half these comments are coming from people that didn't even watch the video or just skimmed it. Given most of these were posted like moments after upload I'm assuming most are just answering by the video title, yourself included
@@Valientlink Didn’t watch the video? Dude, it’s just him recapping a fight we’ve already read and watched. This vid is just milking nerds for views.
Gohan is 7 years rusty, and is a fraction of his teen self. Super Perfect Cell is washing.
I think we need to take into account the fact that Cell was just a more masterful fighter. The fact that he learned the instant transmission technique be seeing Goku use it 3 times (1st time as semi perfect cell as Goku saves Tien and Piccolo, 2nd time at the tournament when Goku blasts his Kamehameha, and the last time when Cell self destruct and got teleported himself) showed if he is at a similar power level as his opponent, he can outsmart them with his skills. We never really saw super prefect cell unleashed his full power in the manga.
Cell only powered up against Gohan in how Vegeta powered up against Frieza back on Namek.
Gohan gets his ass beat around earth. Cell obliterates
Gohan couldn't know about cells weakness here in order for it to see where it goes
great video but man this is the first time i ever got annoyed with someone plugging in their own videos before.
And as you pointed out he also charged the matching chi blast faster than Cell before the official clash after some pep talk.
I think this time cell would mostly because Gohan might have confidence issues
He can get a rage boost if cell pushes him though.
@@justinarzola4584 yeah but it's small burst, and cell has the Kaio-Ken
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD kaio ken isn't as strong as super saiyan unless it's stacked on top of it like what Goku does in super, and cell isn't a biological Saiyan so he can't be Super Saiyan, kaio ken wouldn't make him any stronger when he probably has more powerful attacks.
@@justinarzola4584 actually yeah it's stronger, cell can multiple Kaio-Ken at least by 20 if not higher
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Cell never used kaioken lol. Probably because Goku only used it x4 on Earth and given he uses a ssj like power, stacking them could do serious damage to his body or kill him. But yeah it's never even stated he has that technique and he would've used it if it were useful.
Vegeta is the type that sees wanting to fight strong opponents is as something to be proud of so saying Gohan is weak as he went from playing around with Cell for fun to only doing light training and not wanting to fight is him becoming weak.
You know Vegeta is about to get his arm snapped in half when he does his most legendary technique. The desperation spam. That is a cursed technique to never copy.
I love that we always refer to Scattershot as “Vegeta’s technique” 😂
Like a Pimp named Slickback!!! Sirr!!! Let me officially hand you your black card! Valid for use Fridays and Saturdays from 8pm-5am.
Even though Gohan's super saiyan 2 form in the buu arc wasn't as stronger when he fought Cell,He could still do some damage to super Perfect Cell. And Deborah was around the same strength. If Gohan kept up his training, he would able to kill Deborah easily and be as strong as majin buu if not stronger before the z sword training and elder kai unlocking his true potential.
A longer answer, basically I think Gohan wins more often than not.
The Daizenshuu says Gohan when he first appears in the Buu Saga had not lost any power from back the Cell Games, later it says World Tournament SS2 Gohan is weaker than Cell Games SS2 Gohan due to not having access to his anger and not training: basically base to base Gohan is the same but due not losing his fighting sense and not being able to tap into his anger, his current SS2 is below the SS2 that killed Cell. Gohan then goes on to fight Dabura who Goku says is as strong as Cell, even tougher/stronger after seeing his magic (whether it be raw power or magic Dabura is a bit above Cell), in what the Daizenshuu says is a fairly even battle and the DBZ Dragon Box: Dragon Book Z Vol 6 says to be a difficult battle despite Dabura clearly possessing inferior power, meaning Gohan is either equal-ish to if not stronger than Dabura but again, he doesn't have the same fighting sense he once did so is struggling. I think Gohan with superior power should be able to win but due to being rusty Cell might be able to pull out a win unless Gohan taps into his anger in which case Gohan stands 3-0 against Cell.
Cell wins for sure. Gohan lack of training and is power is lower too
A video on how strong is Cell Saga SS2Gohan vs Buu Saga Majin Vegeta and SS2 Goku? Love your channel.
Dig watching your videos when i get home from work and am making/eating dinner, something about it is cozy. Here are some topic questions that popped into my head over time. Other than the obvious answers of "plot" or "toriyama didnt think about it", was wondering about:
Why didnt zamasu trade bodies with beerus or wish him/(not so) supreme kai dead. Super D can literally grant any wish right? (Unless im missing something.)
Why didnt cell use instant transmission to dodge the last beam clash?
Ive seen some of the characters get punched so hard it makes an indentation through their back, nearly penetrating through (sometimes it does too.) Do you think they ever shit themselves from injuries like that, I mean damn i would lol. Ive seen people in karate tournaments void themselves under less stress and damage.
I know people use the word strength as kind of a catch all term for power and such, buf without ki how strong would most of the characters be natty? Think itd be wild to see a scale or tier list or w/e of whos the goat w/o ki.
My own reasoning for why u6 saiyans are as broken as they are is cause maybe planet sadala has an insanely higher gravity (even more than planet vegeta)? Maybe their bean pole design helps mitigate weight, and the muscle is way lean/dense. Idk, its just stupid tbh, but keeps me from completely hating, unlike the winnie the poo insert and the other dumb super character designs. Guess that one was more of a comment then question, my b.
What happens if ginyu trades with a fusion?
Why do characters in hell get their bodies AND respawn if killed, seems kind of unfair.
What happens if a male and female character fuse (har har, in before the inevitable joke lol.) But fr, is it like, the more powerful one dictates it orrr...? I get this hasnt been done before, to my knowledge at least so more like asking your opinion, or shoot anyone who responds 🤷🏽♀️
Oh and do they add the j in ssj for western audiences so their beloved golden haired blue eyed bois arent that reminiscent of another ss so to speak 😂
I think thats everything 😘
While Cell is an awesome villain, no villain come close to as sadistic and violent as Frieza. Buu & Cell were literally just created and thust didn't truly have a free will of their own. Both Buu and Cell had traces of good in them thanks to the people they absorbed or had as part of their genetic make up. Frieza was just pure evil and was also the most "Out of our league" villain in all of Z.
Frieza is an idiot
That's a good point about shin rating gohans power and kibito being surpised deapite seeing him at the tourney. Either he got a rage boost bigger than ss2s multiplier or he was ss2 after all settling the old debate
Or he got a mental amp stack
He was ss2 all this time.
More REAL Dragon ball content!
"Water is free in these parts"
And the well doesn't dry
So like futuramas Christmas
Gohan fully went through puberty since Cell. Losses likely mitigated compared to what they would have been.
I see it as this Super Perfect Cell-low SSJ2 tier
SSJ2 Teen Gohan- Mid SSJ2 tier
Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan-low SSJ2 tier
Goku vs Majin Vegeta both High SSJ2 tier
Great video as always. Gohan would still stomp Super Perfect Cell. SSJ2 Gohan was far more powerful than people give him credit for. Well explained in the video. However I have to push back on Gohan being SSJ2 vs Dabura.
Reason 1. Gohan most trained transformation is Master/Full Power SSJ, the same look and transformation when he was at the World Tournment watching Videl getting beat up, spiky hair, gold aura, one bang, no electricity. Now look at his transformation when he was facing Kibito. The transformation was more "radical", untrained, more aggressive.
Reason 2. Babidi. Babidi decided to go with Vegeta due to no damage from Dabura to Gohan. Example, Gohan powers up to SSJ2 at the tournament. They steal his power to provide to Boo. Dabura and Gohan engage in battle, he was not fighting at a level beyond SSJ which is why Babidi decided to go with Vegeta. Vegeta and Goku fight and produces more power to revive Boo.
Gohan was only SSJ2 at the World Tournment in front of Kibito. Gohan was SSJ2 when he pulled the Z Sword. That's about it.
Thanks. I actually made a video about this subject if you haven't had the chance to see it. You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/uDL1hDkpaJw/w-d-xo.html
@@LSMMIKE I second what Gohanson27 said.
Just because a guy was said to be around X in Power Level doesn't mean that he's going to be automatically at that Power Level when he fight. From what we can see from the fight Dabura probably isn't SSJ2 level and even if he was, he never went full power to warrant Gohan going SSJ2 as well. Gohan was SSJ, the aura make no doubt of that. He wasn't angry enough to go SSJ2 and double tap Dabura, the later simply needed the fight to last to siphon as much energy as possible, and was obviously not fighting seriously. This doesn't necessitate any dialogue to be understood nor is it up to speculation because it can be observed.
That can be understood contextually as an observer and it's the basis to understand most of DB, it happened many times before this moment and it shouldn't cause confusion to anyone without bias. The problem are people taking inconsistency as canon, things out of context, and making logical fallacies. This make the ones who use critical thinking and don't have any dog in this fight pull their hair at how jarring some of these rationalisations are. This as always been my problem with this fandom especially when most of us are grown ass adults now, we're supposed to know and think better but I'm always disappointed.
People rather twist things to fit their narrative than just accept what is actually discernible, that's why we have weird theories that are doing everyone a disservice. Here you're just doing the same and actually enable such behavior. You took 2 comments that are not explicite but treat them as such to support your argument, you state Dabura being around Super Perfect Cell's level & Kaio Shin comment on Gohan's power as if he meant that he was more powerful than Dabura at the moment you specified. You're not wrong but the way you use it as an argument is disingenuous. We all know that sensing someone power isn't always based on their active state, there is a depth to their Ki, and that's before any narrative convenience. But you take a vague throwaway exposition to not only build your argument on, but modify it to your convenience to support it when it doesn't work contextually.
This manga as proven many times that things are not as rigid and more subtle regarding that exact subject, but not subtle enough to be up to that level of interpretation. At least not to the people with a modicum of discernment that don't have a problem with the narrative.... The event on paper reflect that, and actually do not support your arguments whatsoever. They're unreasonable if we have to modify a bunch of things to make them work, and literally ignore what is plain for all to see.
It's sad that people would rather gauge if a character is in SSJ2 based on their hair bangs than the obvious easier other cues, or are unable to figure it out from a narrative perspective. Because the fact that he isn't doesn't suit their vision of the event, and they cannot come up with a pragmatic and logical reasons to make sense of what they see or to compensate for the lack of writing consistency. There is a number of segments in this manga that warrant this kind of reaction but Dabura vs Gohan isn't one of them. Sometimes the simplest more pragmatic answer is the right one, even if it's out of universe. It doesn't require any extravagant arguments that need a number of other unrelated things to be modified and interpreted differently than what they are at face value to make sense of it all. That is nonsensical and more akin to mental gymnastic than reasoning. So please be a better voice in the fandom.
What's the version of the manga LGM? It's Neat
I personally think Gohan can still pull it off! Not easily mind you! He would need the right motivation, like seeing Videl get hurt or die.
You should see Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. Gohan and his father have to take care of things
@@JoeStuffzAlt I have, im glad Gohan is getting more respect
Much like the fight with Radditz showed a person's power level can drastically increase to well over double their initial output when firing a ki blast. So while Dabura didn't attempt to block it or Ki clash he probably didn't have a lot of time to do so. And of course Supreme Kai would feel that enormous Ki as potential that Gohan could get even stronger, possibly strong enough to defeat Buu.
However I think Super Perfect Cell would edge out Dabura. Cell has a plethora of techniques at his disposal, and is frankly a more skilled fighter than Dabura is when it comes to combat. Also I think it would be much harder for Gohan to deliver a decisive blow to Cell that would vaporize him completely.
Personally I think Buu Saga Gohan could potentially lose to Super Perfect Cell. Gohan would have a slight power advantage. But his fighting sense would be lacking, and only the strongest of energy attacks would be able to put an end to Cell. As anything less than a Game Ending Kamehameha would most likely be dispersed with 17's ki shield, and even then that kamehameha might potentially be dodged by an instant transmission.
To be honest, if scaled properly, super perfect Cell would be a serious problem for all of them. If he was reintroduced in the Buu saga he would be more power than even super Buu(except Buuhan), and maybe even as powerful as kid Buu.
For 2 reasons:
1. He has Goku & Vegeta's cells. So he'll definitely be training in the afterlife thanks to their drive to get stronger and surpass his limits.
2. He's in the afterlife. Toriyama has shown that training while alive and training while dead has drastic differences in gains. Training while in the afterlife has less strain on the body than while alive. Which is why Goku was able to reach super saiyan 3 and not Vegeta despite Vegeta training harder than Goku while he was alive the entire time. Not only that you get stronger at a faster rate in the afterlife. Which is why when all of the z fighters were on king Kai's planet for a short period of time, they reached levels of power, that would have taken years, and as for the humans, maybe even decades to reach.
For these reasons, Cell would be too strong for them because Cell at the time of his death, was already at a super saiyan 2 level of strength. Which neither Goku or Vegeta reached yet when Cell was alive. So you if you gave him 7 years of training in the afterlife, he would have surely surpassed fat Buu, super Buu(except Buuhan), and be around the power of Kid Buu, their most dangerous threat in the z series.
Goku would stand best chance at super saiyan 3, but ultimately Goku wouldn't be able to fight at that intensity for such a long time just like with kid Buu. Vegeta would be crushed since he hasn't reached that level of power, and Gohan would be even more crushed since slacked off and hasn't trained in 7 years. Cell would have definitely learned new tricks in the afterlife besides the ones he inherited from the z fighters.
This is why I say, if scaled properly, they would have a serious problem facing super perfect Cell in the Buu saga.
Love that Boondocks reference!
People out here in these comments spouting gohan's powerlevel assured victory based entirely on emotion, when vegeta stated he was weaker than when he was younger while we as the audience will never know with certainty the extent of super perfect cell power because we never saw him fight, just throwing a kamehameha...folks just straight showing their bias instead of looking at important facts...
It comes down to Gohan's ability to just dig deeper, and Cell's arrogance. I could see Cell overpowering him outright, slapping him around, and egging him on. Then, when he goes for the kill, he'd face Gohan's true power. The power that Goku said could beat "anyone in the world. . . anyone!" with Majin Vegeta and Dabura close by. Cell couldn't stop that. If he went for the kill instantly he'd win, but that's not Cell.
SSJ2 is a set multiplier. You can raise and lower your power in the form by changing the amount of ki your base puts out but the amount of power the form puts out is the same.
18:46 cell also says in the dub”I feel you slipping”
I am going to have to give the edge to Gohan and also based on some intriguing comments too. Gohan is more disciplined than the first time around being one major factor and Cell is like a child against true opposition on equal footing or against someone better and can easily be weaponized. Cell is the equivalent of multiple personality disorder.
Freezer vs Kaioshin the next video, i can't believe that perfect freezer would lose
Gohan was already ahead of Goku and everyone else he just pushed even farther at SS2. It took Vegeta damn near 7 years to reach SS2 "Allegedly".
This is prolly the most even what if fight so far
If we're talking mystic Gohan. He stomps PC.😮
Even with his shit training and loss of power he was still chopping it up with Dabura pretty competently. I'd say Gohan has the advantage, given that he has even more untapped potential and it's Cell who'd definitely cause him to rage tf out at some point.
I like teamfourstar Cell better. He has even better dialogue than the original
Gohan would have to completely obliterate him to win. Still cant get over how Goku blew the top part of his body and came back 😅
Nice Les Paul!
Im personally in the camp that Cell was stronger than Gohan once he returned and it was Vegeta's distraction that cost him the fight, so a rusty-weaker Gohan would get creamed.