I think the bigger plot hole with the Time Chamber is that Buu is able to do a LOT once he escapes while the others are trapped inside, when really they should be trapped inside for maybe a second. Especially since the anime claims there was an incredibly detailed slasher villain sequence.
That's a very, very good point considering that time is supposed to go significantly faster in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber compared to the outside world. One day in the outside world is an entire year in the chamber, so Gotenks and Piccolo should have been able to escape back into the real world within a second in Earth's time. I'm probably just repeating what you're saying, but I'm glad that you brought this up since it just blew right passed me all these years.
actually, this is not a plot hole, Piccolo states after they leave the lockout that hes wondering why Buu hasn't blown up the earth yet since they've been in the chamber for too long and he had a lot of time since time out side is faster, he then remembers that he had backwards and they are the ones who had more time thats why Buu only had time to defeat the Z-fighters and none else
Popo restocks the time chamber so fast because 1. He's fast and magic. And 2. 1 second on the outside is 365 seconds on the inside. If he only took 2 minutes on the inside to restock it, he'd be in and out in 0.3 seconds.
But he'd have to be making lunch constantly on the outside to restock it. As as soon as he leaves the chamber for even a few minutes, several hours will have passed inside the chamber. It's a very busy day for him, if he is, indeed, manually restocking it.
You actually make a lot of sense regarding the time chamber. A lot of other people throw out random hit about Mr. Popo upgrading it to allow more people, but NO ONE went over this part where Goku said it was set up for two people NOT limited to two people existing inside.
Ultimate Gohan and the concept of fusion was essentially time wasting ideas and or just some cool shit to see because at the end of the day, they both played zero roles in the final fight against Buu. So what was the point in introducing them? You guessed it, nothing!
For me this saga was more about WOW MOMENTS. We can go back to the cell saga & every transformation had purpose. Super sayin trunks helped defeat freeza. Super sayin vegeta helped save goku & kill 19.. they also helped stall goku’s recovery by fighting the androids. Piccolo also helped stall after kami fusion.. & of course gohan took down cell. Everything had purpose here
The "why didn't Dende heal Kaioshin" thing absolutely busted me up laughing. Fucking hilarious. I've been a hardcore DBZ fan for 25 years, debated on the battle boards, etc. Never thought of that. Unreal.
@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716 Right, but it primarily healed the battle damage they suffered, and Ki restoration was more of a side effect..... I'm just spit balling, though.
Interesting fact, Goku's life span is unlike any others as for his last reincarnation he was not officially wished back by dragon balls. He was actually giving the Life by the Elder Supreme Kai. If you remember correctly Elder Kai said he would not allow the younger Kai to do it because he had thousands of more years to live, when he only had one to two thousand years left. He considered his life fading while still having over a thousand years remaining and therefore giving up his life to Goku with all these years still ahead! This moment is probably very overlooked and something that adds completely to the plot hole as well and as far as the longevity and lifespan of Goku. Yet another crazy twist and another crazy plothole we could go have a whole nother video about! Keep up the good vibes! 👍
Elder Kai only exchanged the living and dead statuses, he never said he was giving the rest of his lifespan to Goku. It was just a case of "You're young and have a lot more time left to live, you should be allowed to live it" so he chose to be the one to sacrifice himself.
@@helixsol7171 I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, however as for a topic on TH-cam, and to receive views for a Dragon Ball Z topic this is as good as any. That is more or less what I was referring to since we just finished watching a video about plot holes and headcanon. However to be fair I can say that I strongly feel this point is overlooked and could also be used later by Toriyama as a tool to be exploited should he decide to ever and if he actually would remember anything! Goku easily can be rebooted as Dragon Ball Super has already done that. So episode 266 let's actually just go over this dialog. As Gohan is on death's door Goku is pleading for the Kai's that there must be something we can do. Elder Kai agrees and tells Goku we can send you down there to fight. Goku says I can't go and it is reinforced as Supreme Kai remind Elder Kai he has been whished back twice already by the Dragon Balls. So already based on this we know Elder Kai is going to perform some sort of miracle that trumps the power of the Dragon Balls. That's for starters, he specifically looks at Goku, talking to Goku, and says I'll give you the life I have left inside of me. I mean we can discuss four hours what that meant if we wanted and it doesn't matter. Point is there was not even an idea of Whis or Beerus or any gods above the Kai's, more specifically Dai Koiah'shin, whose name translates to the "great lord of lords." Kibito tells the Elder Kai that this is unorthodox and wasn't a big enough situation for a matter like this. Elder Kai remind Majin Buu will come here after he destroys the Earth. The Supreme Kai then speaks up, he tells the Elder Kai then let me give my life. For I have lost and failed to him on many occasions, please give me a chance to repay my debt. The Elder Kai turns away from Goku, he looks right at Supreme Kai, the one he is talking to. He tells the Supreme Kai, not Goku, you're ambitious, let the old man give up their lives so that the young man can live their lives. We know the anime very well but the manga specifically is more interesting regarding this matter. He tells the Supreme Kai a little something that certainly makes this a good topic and I can see by the thumbs that it certainly would be. Elder Kai states he has only 1-2 thousand years left, but Supreme Kai had his whole life ahead of him. Unlikely and realistically Toriyama doesn't remember any of this, nor does he care as much anymore. Any future reboot from any other creator could always go back and find these episodes years down the road when Goku does not seem to be aging as fast or normally as everyone else. I think it's fantastic and would be an easy way to immortalize the character for a lot longer. They're going to continue to draw him Young for as long as possible I could imagine. This is easily a worthy topic of discussion
This is actually a plot hole, albeit only if we use real world logic because we knowbmost people (if any) are "pure." Most of what he brings up are "gaps in logic" or decisions made by characters that make little sense, but do not contradict prior established rules.
@@RGA301092and considering that crime still existed after only good people were revived... Yeah, I feel like Porunga was feeling a little silly on this one
The spirit bomb takes energy from the environment around the user, including the creatures. You have to be a pure hearted person to use it, but I don't think it's ever stated you can only take energy from pure hearted sources.
Two more plotholes: 1. Super Buu having enough time to eat everyone outside the time chamber, when Gotenks should've left the chamber only a few seconds later. 2. Kid Buu not using instant transmission to avoid getting hit by the Genkidama, but instead he let that energy consume him.
I wouldnt consider those as plotholes. 1. 10 secondes still corresponds to about an hour outside so it's really plenty of time for Super Buu to eat everyone outside. Especially considering he only had to cast a large spell on the whole gang all at once and voilà :] 2. Kid Buu is portrayed as a brainless fighter so it would kind of be out of character to act strategically. He's acting on instinct and wouldn't think about fleeing when facing the genkidama. That last point is far fetched I'll give you that lol, but it's essentially the same "warrior gene" kind of justification (the same way as Cell could've done the same trick as Goku in order to blitz Gohan instead of facing him head on)
@@MsMRkv 1: the genkidama was coming at him he wasn’t holding it nor was it his energy. 2: he had already pushed it back once and might of assumed he could do it again. 3: he was afraid and angry both emotions clouding his focus and adding on to his rashness to push it back.
@@darkry973 You're getting it wrong. Inside the time chamber times goes by faster than outside, not the other way around, so Gotenks should've exited it not even 5 seconds after Buu did. And the other one, Kid Buu had plenty of time to just Dodge that giant ball, he didn't even need instant transmission, he might be a brainless fool for certain things but he's a combat genius, but ok, after deflecting it once maybe he thought he could do it a second time. Cell on the other hand, had the upper hand almost all of the time, his defeat was so sudden he didn't even had time to react to it, had he been losing, I have no doubt he would've used instant transmission to escape (or at least in a realistic scenario)
The whole Genki Dama scene in hilarious. Vegeta starts off so confident. “It’s time the people of earth saved themselves for once.” Then he asks for the Kais to go to Namek. But they don’t have the Dragon Balls? Nope! They anticipated this and gathered them already. Bring everyone on Earth back to life! But Porunga can only bring back 1 person at a time? Nope! We fixed that too. Great! Now Vegeta asks Supreme Kai to let him speak to the people of Earth, but Supreme Kai doesn’t have that power? Oh! But here’s King Kai chiming in offering to set it up! Perfect. Now the people of Earth aren’t even listening. But Mr. Satan is here to convince everyone to help. Now Goku’s out of energy. But of course Porunga is there waiting for the third wish to restore his energ and everything works out. Vegeta’s plan was terrible. It only worked due to a series of Deus ex machina that he didn’t account for. Obviously not all plot holes, but really funny story-telling nonetheless.
King Kai having a power like telepathy but not Supreme Kai is ridiculous lol. King Kai is more tuned into what goes on with Earth but Shin hasn't been paying any attention for probably millenniums. He's as good as useless in the whole arc and even moreso in Super where everything he says is incredibly annoying and obvious.
I think it was Toriyama wanting everyone to participate in someway to make it a real team effort that beat Buu. Still a bad plan but I can understand where Vegeta is coming from since the Z fighters aren't going to be around forever...... unless they want to the dragon balls are a thing. It seemed like that was the point of both the Cell saga and Buu saga at first was Goku can't always be the one to save everyone but then Toriyama shifted it so that Goku was back to life and only had Vegeta with him for some reason.
The Namekians during Buu saga could sense the whole conflict from the beginning since everyone in the Majin Buu arc is far more powerful, so they gathered the Namek Balls in case.
Babidi no wanting to run around with Boo, and trying to gather enough energy by going from planet to planet makes a lot of sense. He wanted to ressurect Boo at full power. Any complications on the trip could have awakened Boo prematurely. Attacking Freeza, who might have blown up the ship if they tried, wouldn't really be that smart either. And who knows how long that might have taken.
Not like he had anyone except Dabura that could touch Frieza But Dabura was his most recent addition to his allies since Shin didn’t know until seeing him himself
Either way, this is a "gap in logic" not a "plot hole." Nothing that was established is contradicted, babidi is just acting stupid in order for plot to happen.
You know, all these years, I never thought of what you said about Babidi getting Freeza. I can only speculate that he didn't care since he had Dabura and just wanted to keep busy searching planets for Buu. Considering how big the universe is, it would take forever, and there's no point in gathering energy until he finds it either.
This isn’t really a plot hole, but the filler of the previous villains in hell watching SSJ3 Goku vs. Kid Buu through a glass ball with the dramatic music is amazing. And I always thought it was canon.
If I remember right in the English dub anime Goku simply didn't have the energy to keep pushing the Spirit Bomb forward into Kid Buu, meaning Buu was able to stop it and start pushing it back. That always made perfect sense to me and sounds a lot better then the manga saying Goku doesn't have the energy to "detonate" the Spirit Bomb.
It’s not like Vegeta knows how the Spirit Bomb works anyway. I doubt he ever had a sit down with Goku to discuss the mechanics of it. Maybe he just said that line because that’s what he’s assuming.
Fortune teller baba could have died in trunks’ timeline. Maybe she can only give one day passes while she herself is still alive. And babidi may have waited so long to revive buu because it was the first time in his life someone as strong as gohan and cell had appeared without needing majin magic to boost them
I'd say a big plothole is everyone still thinking that Gohan was dead, even though they'd *just* used the DBs to wish back everyone who'd died since the day of the tournament (except the bad guys). Kuririn later says they can't sense Gohan's ki and that's used as an additional justification for why none of them clocked on that Gohan can't be dead, but... none of them could sense Tenshinhan's ki either. The only way that whole plot point works is if everyone just decidedd to hold the Idiot Ball for several days straight, and no-one ever brought up the fact that Gohan would've been included in the wish to bring those people back.
They probably just assumed Gohan died sometime after the wish was made. They can’t sense his energy, and he’s not the type to go into hiding, him being dead is the only explanation they can think of.
Didn’t they phrase the wish as “everyone who was killed at the World Tournament today?” Bulma and co didn’t know about the threat of Buu, hence why Goku had to go to them and tell them to stop.
There is definitely alot of handwaving away nonsense in this arc. I mean once the fusion dance is explained there is no reason they can't just teach it to everyone. It canonicaly only takes like a few hours to learn it.
When the fusion dance was first introduced, it was explained to be very conditional. The biggest issue being that all of the fighters wildly vary in height. I think Vegeta and Future Trunks are the only other match. However that of course got completely thrown out later, at which point there was no further excuse.
I think for the Spirit Bomb and why Goku didn't need the energy to 'detonate' it in the previous instances is that Goku scored a clean hit with it on Frieza, and Vegeta got hit by it cleanly too. Buu is putting up resistance to it and is actually fighting back, and Goku doesn't have the energy to win this invisible tug-of-war. So maybe a fall back idea would be to try and detonate it on the spot? But he couldn't even manage that it seems.
The real spirit bomb plothole is how frieza survived but Buu didn't despite the one that hit Frieza being planet-sized and him being completely unable to resist it.
@@franklinturtleton6525 I'm not sure that's even a plot hole. The one used against Buu was a lot stronger given the number of people involved contributing to it's power. While the one with Frieza seemed to have a lot of neighboring planets natural energy, but no 'willing sentient contributors' like the one for Buu. Not to mention Frieza would go on to prove just how durable he actually is, even if he doesn't have a regen factor. Considering he got cut in half by his own attack, tanked an enraged SSJ attack that likely meant to kill him, then tanks a planet explosion after THAT, and then floats around in the vacuum of space for some unspecified time until his Father picked him up.
One thing ive always wondered is what would happen if they left the door open to the time chamber. I imagine them looking out of it when somebodies walking in and seeing them approaching in super slow motion whilst the one walking in sees them in super speed lol
9:10 What I always considered a plothole is what Babidi spent millions of years doing and Freezer. During the moments where Z warriors arrive at Babidi's ship, the reason as to why Dabura transforms Piccolo into stone is because "He is too weak, and his power would be insigificant in the process to awake Majin Buu" as Babidi says. Thing is, if Piccolo (who went hand to hand against 17, then spent a few months on the time chamber, and after that trained during 7 years) is considered "insignificantly weak", then what were Babidi's standards lmao. One would think that ocassionaly draining Dabura for centuries would be his best and pretty much only osorio because, remember, there was no one canonically stronger than Freezer (who is NOTHING compared to Android saga Piccolo) in the entire universe. Even if we consider Super, there isn't anyone stronger than Freezer. Beerus is sleeping (and too much for Babidi to handle), Hit, Zamasu and Jiren are from other universes/timelines, Broly is in a lost, uninhabitable planet, Moro was a prisioner and who knows if Babidi even knew he existed (even if he knew, probably thougth he was dead), and Granolah/Gas haven't done their wish. SO, no one in the universe could possibly surpass Freezer's power (besides, of course, Beerus), which makes you wonder: If Freezer is, in fact, the most powerfull being the universe has ever seen and no one is above him, isn't it like to logical thing to, you know, go drain him off his energy? Yes, Piccolo is infinitely stronger and yet is considered useless, but I insist, there is NO ONE stronger than Freezer, it was that way for probably centuries. Or what about King Cold. It's not the best, but it's literally the only being that has more than 100 power units lmao. Also, he is actively eliminating races after races. The more Freezer conquers, less living organisms will exist to possibly drain in order to feed Majin Buu's revival. What I am trying to say is, Freezer is a direct opposition to Babidi's plan, and it's not good writing that he just let the only strong being in the universe slowly extinguish the very same life he needed to wake up Buu. It doesn't make sense one way or another. My problem with Z is that Freezer, for being the emperor of the universe, has absolutely no impact in the entire universe whatsoever. He died and it's like no one ever had hears of him. That's why Super writes Freezer WAY BETTER, because we have seen the impact in laws and security that his army has in the universe and its people (during Moro arc) and how the criminals work for him, what is his business and how the economy moves around this empire (Granolah arc). Freezer should have been adressed during Buu's saga, yet he wasn't
The reason it took Babidi so long to get to Earth was because (1) he didn't know where Buu was, (2) he had to learn the spell to release him since I'm assuming Bibidi died before he could teach him, (3) he was running away from the Supreme Kai
i noticed how Toriyama completely inverts how the time chamber works, time is supposed to go fast inside the chamber and slow on the outside, however when Buu escapes the time chamber dimension, time goes fast on the outside. In theory Piccolo and Gotenks should have all the time in the world to escape the time chamber dimension and save everybody before Buu kills the entire cast. For me this is such a indicative of how much Toriyama was burned out on DB and just wanted to kill the entire cast and be done with it
Actually it took them three hours to escape the time chamber (remember, Gotenks had to defuse and fuse again), which gave Buu about five minutes to kill everyone.
@@Jotari Beat me to it, Super Buu is the same guy that commited total genocide of all of humanity in less than a minute so to think he couldn't kill everyone on the lookout in the time that Goten, Trunks and Piccolo were stuck in there is a bit silly. As someone else mentioned in another comment from doing the maths, Buu had a bare minimum of about five minutes to kill everyone on the lookout. Again: total planetary genocide of presumably billions of people in under a minute.
So 1 year in the time chamber = 1 day outside. Every minute outside is 6 hours in the time chamber. In order for Buu to get 5 minutes they would be in there for over a day. Idk which comment you saw, but the math for this is 1 day = 365 days, 1 hour = 365 hours, 1 minute = 365 minutes. 365 minutes / 60 = 6.08 hours. 6.08x5 = 30.4 hours for 5 minutes.
I feel like maybe in that last "Why didn't they bring Gohan back to fight kid buu...etc"...Gohan, Trunks, and Goten all got tricked and absorbed by buu and then became too strong for Goku and Vegeta separately. They probably didn't want to risk that again. Goku wouldn't think of that, but Vegeta would have. *Also, Goku tried to let the new generation take over, but they all fumbled.
No, nobody fumbled, the writing was just mega dog ass. The villain was an unstoppable invincible regenerating monster that could just eat everyone and destroy reality??? Goku and Vegeta had to ALREADY BE DEAD to beat him, but since the writing is STILL mega dog ass, this time all it took was a spirit bomb weaker than the one that clipped frieza's tail???? Never attempt to justify or defend the buu saga, it is braindead beyond salvation. Team Four Star wouldn't even touch it
I think the first plot hole you discussed is really up to debate on how you view Fortuneteller Baba. Her magic, and thus her special ability of allowing "visitations" for a single day isn't explained in great detail. Yet, you can still argue about whether it is a plot hole or not as both people we see be brought back for a day are both fighters that died a violent death. Grandpa Gohan more than likely tried to fight/calm Ozaru Goku, but died to him instead, which would count as a non-natural death in DB lore. And in the normal timeline (the one we follow), Goku dies against an exploding Cell. Now, if you believe that Fortuneteller Baba works differently then the Dragon Balls, then yes, it would be a plot hole. But considering that both people brought back were fighters that didn't die of natural causes, I don't really consider it a plot hole (in the Trunks timeline, Goku dies of natural causes, meaning that maybe, Baba can't retrieve him). This also doesn't bring up the fact that Baba never even meets most of the Z-fighters until she allows Goku a day off from death, particularly Gohan, who would be the only one able to take on the androids. Remember, Vegeta is in Hell, Piccolo never fused with Kami, and everyone else would be too weak.
I thought it was because Goku was allowed to keep his body and train. I always say the other z fighters not getting that chance so they couldn’t have been brought back for a day
Piccolo training for five years in the aferlife probably would have been able to take on the androids with Baba's help. Plus, if he's brought back for a day...does that mean Kami can work his magic and bring the dragon balls back for a day?
You can't argue its a plot hole at all because it is a "gap in logic" not plot hole. The truth of the matter is, no matter how stupid a decision may be, it can still be made. Nothing is contradicted, the characters are just acting questionably in a manner some may perceive as unbelievable.
The thing with the ROST, I think Goku also knew Vegeta was avoiding Trunks, so he could have said it just to set up a reason for Vegeta and Trunks to train together seperately and not actually a rule. If it was Piccolo or Mr. Popo would have said it.
Retroactively would’ve made sense as Dr. Gero likely immediately sent out spy bots to look at Goku’s journey- likely picking up on that detail of the one day revival and putting two and two together about Baba likely doing a temporary revival to have the heroes intervene at the last minute. So he or the Androids pulled a King Piccolo and removed the middle man.
One of Supreme Kai's lines implies that they didn't know Babidi existed until very recently. I feel like that's probably part of why he wouldn't want to pull some of the big moves you mentioned. The shorter a time frame he can pack his big plan into, the better his chances of pulling it off without the Kais getting involved.
Honestly, Vegeta's decision to have humans take part in saving the universe kind of makes the transition into GT Vegeta smoother than I realised, since he's already becoming the protector of Earth as he ends up being.
The buu being around since the beginning of time can easily be explained. If shin and the other kaioshins didn't know buu existed then when bibidi showed up with buu it's possible that shin and the other kaioshins believed that bibidi creates buu.
This is true. So many instances of characters being unreliable sources. Just because a character says something doesn't make it true. Frieza calls Goku a monkey all the time, yet Goku isn't a monkey.
@@zaja2418 It's not worth theory crafting a way to make sense of Toriyama's retcons. He simply forgot what he wrote so he didn't realise he contradicted himself.
I talked about plotholes in the Buu saga in the DBZ subreddit and got downvoted to hell. People on any DB subreddit are super toxic. This arc so bafflingly terrible even if it has epic moments. Problem is they don't mean anything. Majin Vegeta's battle? Nothing. Goku and Vegeta's battle? Stupid, it's not a proper rematch. It would've been if SSJ3 wasn't so poorly retconned, but even then it'd be stupid, because Goku could just instant transmission over to Dabura and take him out, then take care of Babadi. Also, him leaving the mess HE helped create to literal children he's never really seen fight is so stupid. Arguably the stupidest decision Goku has ever made. He made it a mission not to come back to life because he figured his present would cause issues. Well he was right lol. One day back on Earth and within hours he unleashes a monster that actually does ending up destroying the planet, the very reason he was sent to Earth.The Android arc was messy for sure but it was extremely epic. It had some of the most meaningful moments in anime history and even if it was changed around a lot at the seam of Toriyama's pants, he did it at his best in that arc. It was so epic, scary, emotional, the perfect arc to really end DBZ on and I know so many agree with this.
I imagine Babidi never went after Freeza or his father because he didn't want to risk antagonizing an entire galactic empire without his big pink bodyguard. He might have been able to take their energy if he really tried but it would mean putting his neck on the line and even then the Supreme Kai likely would have noticed something was wrong and found him if the galactic emperors suddenly went missing.
I mean dabura would be stronger than frieza but yeah if babidi attacked or tried to mind control frieza problems would occur like they did in budakai 2.
For the first one it could've been that Baba saw the future and knew what will happen if she lets it be and she could've thought it was ok in a sense. For the goku black thing tho is that Baba thought that the dead Z fighters would be too weak.
About the Cell Arc, did Gero, the Androids or Cell know about the dragon balls? They never mention it nor do they care about it. Same for Babidi and Dabura. For a show called Dragon Ball, it's pretty hilarious.
There's A LOT of plot holes during the Buu Saga that you didn't mention. 1. Supreme Kai - The Supreme Kai has instantaneous movement. Unlike Goku's instant transmission, Supreme Kai does not need to lock on to a ki signature and can move anywhere in the universe (like that tall grass planet when they fought Kid Buu). So why didn't he just teleport them directly to the bottom of Babbidi's ship so they could destroy Buu? Why risk playing by Babbidi's rules and fighting at each level and giving Buu energy? Also, why didn't Supreme Kai teleport himself and Gohan away from Buu when Buu was hatched? Why did they try to fly away instead? Fat Buu didn't know instant transmission so he would not have been able to follow them. 2. Goku - Why did Goku agree to fight Vegeta when he knew it risked awakening Buu? Yes, Vegeta was threatening to go on a killing spree, but Goku already knew they could just revive anyone who died with the Dragon Balls. Majin Vegeta didn't care if Buu got awakened or not, so Goku or the Supreme Kai could have offered to teleport Goku and Vegeta to some place other than what Babidi considered Stage 3 of his ship. Babbidi's magic wasn't all-present. It's not like the fight with Frieza or Cell gave Buu energy, so Vegeta probably would have agree to be teleported somewhere else if it meant fighting Goku. Instead, they let Babidi do it, which meant it would be part of Stage 3 and be able to feed Buu energy. Why didn't Goku go SS3 against Majin Vegeta? He could have just knocked him out in one blow and powered down right after. This would not have eaten up much of his remaining time, and he'd still have plenty of time to help Gohan destroy Buu's ball. Remember, he was SS3 for like 30 minutes later on when he fought Fat Buu, and even then it didn't burn up ALL his remaining time. And about that fight, why did it take place at all? Goku wanted to stall Buu to give Trunks time to find the Dragon Radar. But why not just teleport there himself and get it? I know that narratively it's because Toriyama wanted to show off SS3, but in story it makes no sense. 3. Gohan - Why did everyone believe that Gohan was dead when they had just made a wish to bring everyone who died the day of the tournament back to life? If Gohan HAD died fighting Fat Buu, he'd have been revived by that wish, right? Yet when Chichi is told Gohan and Vegeta are dead, she faints, as if the wish she'd just helped make in the previous episode meant nothing. Also, when Goku returned to the afterlife and found Gohan still alive, why didn't he use King Kai to contact the others and let them know? This would have comforted Chichi, whom he claimed to care about, if nothing else. Had Piccolo known that Gohan was still alive and training to beat Buu, he could have factored this into his battle strategy concerning Goten and Trunks. Perhaps they could have timed the fusion take place when Gohan got back instead of it ending before then. 4. Old Kai - How was he aware of everything that was going on up to that point without being told? If its because he was a Kai, then why did the current Supreme Kai constantly get surprised by Goku and Vegeta's powers? Shouldn't he have already known about everything that happened up to that point using the same powers that Old Kai had? How was the witch able to sneak up on Old Kai if he lived in the World of the Kais? They said even the Grand Kai wasn't allowed there, so how did some random witch get in? Why did Old Kai lie about the fusion earrings being permanent when they were only permanent for Kais? Did he just honestly not know? Because if that's the case, he could have corrected himself when Goku and Vegeta came to the Kai Planet and he was trying to convince them to use the earrings. He could have mentioned that, obviously, they weren't permanent for mortals, since Goku and Vegeta had de-fused after an hour. Even if he hadn't known that when he gave them to Goku, he should have figured it out when he saw Goku and Vegeta reemerge individually from Buu's body after watching them be absorbed as Vegito. 5. Vegeta - Why did Majin Vegeta take so long to blow up Babbidi's ship? He knocks Goku out, the does nothing for an entire episode while Gohan and Supreme Kai are beaten almost to death, and THEN he inserts himself into the situation. If he was "sorry" for not helping Gohan, then why didn't he just help him? Why did Vegeta say goodbye to Trunks when he knew that he could be revived with the Namekian Dragon Balls? Did he just assume that after what he did at the tournament that no one would want to wish him back? How did Vegeta find out about SS3 when he was in Other World? Piccolo said that Vegeta would not get the same reward as Goku when he died, so I guess that means that Vegeta went to Hell with all the other villains. So does that also mean that that giant crystal ball we see in Hell during the Kid Buu fight was being used by the villains the entire time? Were Frieza and later Cell spending every day and night watching Goku and later Gohan's lives on Earth? And if that's the case, then what happened when Vegeta showed up and Frieza, Cell, and the Ginyu Force were all there? Did they all just tolerate each other's presence because they were so invested in watched SS3 Goku fight Fat Buu? This seems unlikely since, during the Kid Buu fight, someone asks who was fighting with Goku and that's when Babbidi explains who Buu is. So that implies that the Kid Buu fight is the first time any of the other villains saw Buu. So then how did Vegeta find out about SS3 if the rest of the events on Earth weren't being broadcast in Hell?
Here are some responses. 1. Babidi is a wizard. He could have set up various traps. So the Supreme Kai could have seen that as a reason not to use instantenous movement. Second I'm pretty sure this is you misremembering. Kibito was the one to show that ability. And then they fuse and then Kibito Kai is shown using that. 2. Goku thought he could convince Vegeta to stop fighting him. And its explained why he didn't use SS3. When he used it against Buu and later to show Goten and trunks his time was used up on earth. Goku had no idea of how long he'd be able to last on earth in that form. You do realize with instant trnasmission Goku needs an energy signature to lock onto right? Goku can not just show up wherever with it. 3. Ya know there is this thing about resurrections in Dragognball. People are revived where they died. Its why there had to be a wish to have Krillin's "soul" dragged to earth and THEN revived. I say this because since Gohan wasn't revived on the lookout he just as easily could have encountered buu again and get killed AGAIN. And since no one could sense him there would be no reason to think he was still alive. 4. Ok there are some things to consider. First we can either include Super in this discussion or not. If we include Super clearly Supreme Kais are taught be elder ones to take the position. But our Supreme Kai didn't get that because the person who would have been his teacher was sealed. So he had no one to teach him how to do those things. You might argue he had the kai who Buu absorbed but we don't know how long the two had spent time together. So those lessons could have happened by then. And this expands to the whole witch thing. Ambiguity is NOT the same as a plot hole. The supreme kai planet is just a planet at the end of the day. Anyone CAN travel there. Its just going to be easier if you have someone who knows the way. Similar to King Kai's planet. Old Kai DIDN'T know about the time limit. Its funny you bring that up but ignore the fact they thought that was because Buu is FREAKING MAGIC. The assumption he made at the time was that Buu's MAGIC body counteracted the fusion. 5. It isn't a plot hole that Vegeta took long to blow up the ship. That is anime pacing. That is NOT the same thing. What the hell are you taling about with Vegeta not just helping Gohan? Do you not know what regret IS? Why would Vegeta think people would revive him when everyone saw him kill the people on the tournament ground?! Also you do realize Baba was the one to bring Vegeta back right? The same person who brought Goku back and saw his transformation to SS3 on the lookout. Plus if you take into account filler Buu was able to sense Goku and Vegeta powering up to SS2 and follow it to the Supreme Kai planet from the other world. And SS3 is way stronger than that. So it would stand to reason Vegeta could sense Goku doing that. The villains keeping their bodies is a filler thing. So that is an inconsistency caused by that.
Freezer couldn't have been nearly strong enough for babidi's purposes, considering that pui pui would have been many times stronger than freezer at that point in the story.
Vegeta wanting to let the humans score the win on Buu with their own power is the most out of character shit in the whole series lol. Also can we confirm Gotenks, and especially Gohan, could defeat Kid Buu when Goku struggled so much? I thought Goku wanted to fuse with Gohan since they had similar power levels. Also kid Buu fought in very unorthodox ways and Gohan's kinda ass in a fight even if he his crazy strong
if supreme kai could hear vegeta’s thoughts how come he wasn’t aware that vegeta wanted the majin transformation? he was suprised when vegeta turned majin
Vegeta didn't want the Majin transformation. Moreso he accepted it when it came to him. Also, Supreme Kai was realizing what Babidi's plan was directly before Vegeta was being afflicted with Majin. Supreme Kai was just simply not fast enough to react with a counter measure. He was definitely the weakest in member of both groups. Unprepared, half-baked plan, underestimated his allies and enemies, etc.
@@kenja0685it probably doesn’t happen in the manga, but in the anime Vegeta said he made up his mind to coax Babidi into mind controlling him DURING Goku’s fight with Yakkon. He said the inflammatory remarks to Gohan purposefully so Dabura would notice the evil in his heart and suggest this to Babidi. Theoretically, Supreme Kai should’ve known that. All said and done, the Buu arc has pretty poor writing even by Toriyama’s standards. But Supreme Kai is still a massive blunder of a character.
For the time chamber, as you were explaining what Goku actually said in the Cell Saga about it, I immediately thought to myself "What he's saying is that if there were more time to prepare, it can be made to house more than two, but there's no time to get that set up *right now*" though that still doesn't explain why Piccolo and Buu could go in there with the boys, unless Popo just has it set up for 4 or 5 people on the chance that something like Cell would happen again and they need to train quicker and he just didn't say anything
My answer to why babbadi waited this long to try to gather energy to release buu is because of SSJ2 Gohan from the cell arc. I feel like Gohan was the key to finally achieving enough pure energy for buu’s release. After all, Deborah’s power is equal to cell saga gohan’s power which would be a trigger to allow babbadi to finally go to earth and try collecting the energy. Also sorta explains why the supreme kai was on earth at the time, js like babbadi they realized on earth now can potentially release buu, let’s go check it out before babbadi does
@@jacobweatherford4696 Goku's first guess is that Dabura is around the level of "a guy named Cell we fought seven years ago" (he never clarifies if he means Perfect Cell or Super Perfect Cell). Then, as soon as Goku sees Dabura fight Gohan (who is stated to have gotten weaker than he was at the Cell Games), he says that Dabura is "better than I thought". Take that as you will.
@@zaja2418 i mean it would be dumb if he was talking about imperfect or semi perfect cell, so it would stand to reason he would be talking about the current iteration of the not so ultimate lifeform.
I don't know if it happened in the manga, but when Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu were training to take on Vegeta and Nappa Mr. Popo had them train in the time chamber against the two Saiyans. Different function, but I think the same room in the lookout.
Biggest plot hole that needs addressing is the Super Buu killing everyone in the lookout. Mostly to address in the Manga, that Gotenks *re-fused* in the time chamber prior to breaking out, but it's never really shown or addressed that well. I believe it's _vaguely_ mentioned.
my biggest grief with babidi. why didn’t he take control of frieza earlier. he controlled the universe for years. with his resources he’d be way better off. and we know he could have taken control of frieza because dabura is way stronger than frieza
On Porunga being able to refresh Goku, it's kind of like how Krillin was able to wish for Shenron to take the bombs out of 17 and 18, but couldn't make them fully human.
I will agree it does seem odd that while Babadi was fly around the universe he was gathering great fighters it does seem odd that he wasn't collecting power as for Majin Buu also, it's possible that maybe over time that power burns off and even when first located there wasn't enough strong fighters in the universe to power up Majin Buu. Overall while the fights in the Buu were great I think the reason it's the least liked out of all the DBZ arcs is because there are a ton of plot holes and truly it was an ill conceived story overall.
Super Buu is the most powerful Buu I've always said that plus Goku was getting tossed with Buutenks but able to hang with Kid Buu, Gohan was definitely stronger than that Buu
I kind of feel that Dende would have been in trouble so maybe it’s good that he didn’t go. But it wasn’t stated. As for the dragon restoring energy.. I feel like it’s usually when you get destructive towards someone that it’s a problem for the dragon.
Welcome back again Mike! You're popping up on my feed everytime! Algorithm seems to be set back in your favor... and since you're doing this for fun I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon! Welcome back buddy
A plot hole I always wondered about is if Gohan was the strongest character then shouldn't just his energy be enough to defeat Boo? Then shouldn't it have been enough with just the Z team? So why wasn't it enough on its own and why did they need everyone from earth to donate energy?
I've heard that Genki is not power level per se, but more of a metaphysical concept, like soul energy. In short, some people have the theory that everyone's Genki is about the same.
@@bmb-ub6ecBecause the Spirit Bomb is a more fantastic conclusion than just having Mystic Gohan come whoop Buu’s ass. The crazy fantastical dramatic approach that Gotenks took to fighting was just Toriyama making fun of himself.
To add to the Spirit Bomb thing, Krillin straight up throws a Spirit Bomb and has it blow up on Vegeta. While it wasn't strong enough to kill Vegeta, it at least damaged him a good bit and there was no resistance on Vegeta's part, only attempting to dodge it.
Gotenks learned SSJ3 just from observing it. Vegeta not postponing his battle with Goku, to stop Buu from being revived. Goku not destroying Buu. Gotenks not destroying Buu. Ultimate Gohan not destroying Buu. Vegito not destroying Buu Goku and Vegeta not using potara fusion again to defeat Buu on the Kai planet. These are my top issues wi..... O.... You said plot holes and not...... Gotcha.
You can definitely argue Goku, Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan (sort of), Vegito, and Goku+Vegeta literally toying with Buu just like Vegeta and Gohan did with Cell or Goku did with Frieza or the Androids. The Saiyans have a massive Hubris that causes a crap ton of problems for them in the long run. Literally, the only character that doesn't have Hubris is Future Trunks and that's because he's seen the worst of the worst and doesn't take any chances EXCEPT against Cell when he didn't want to show Vegeta his Grade 3 power he thought was better than him.
Goten and trunks knew what it looked like so it made it easier to reach that benchmark Vegeta isn’t a patient guy he didn’t care about anything else except his rematch with goku Goku couldn’t sustain ssj3 Gotenks didn’t have enough time to defeat buu Gohan was too overconfident Vegito’s purpose wasn’t to kill buu it was to save piccolo, gotenks, and gohan which were all inside buu. They didn’t use potato again because they were already defused and didn’t want to “permanently” merge their bodies again and also they thought they could take buu without merging
Regarding "two people in the time chamber," I am pretty sure Goku was being slippery about it to trick Vegeta to go with Trunks. I remember he admit that somewhere.
I know Z post cell games is the least popular, and rightly so. But I thought it was pretty good until post vegeta final explosion. That's when it went off the rails overall quality wise to me.
Looking back now there’s no justification for goten & trunks becoming super sayin like nothing, let alone becoming super sayin 3. Prior to that every transformation has build up & emotion. I got absolutely none of that from goten & trunks
In dragon Ball super, Frieza mentions that King Cold told him never to face Majin Buu or Beerus. So they were at least aware of Buu's existence, and probably wouldn't have gone along with his plans even if he did approach them
Maybe Buu really was around before Bibidi, if Majin Buu had been around during the beginning of the universe's creation but was sealed, it is definitely possible even the Kaioshin didn't know of his existence until Bibidi took control of him and used his power to destroy things, and before Beerus was introduced they called Kid/Pure Buu "The God of Destruction" and unlike Cell who's a manmade creation, there's some merit to the title for them to claim him as such because relatively speaking before BOG/DBS, he was definitely the most powerful being in the universe.
I never took that to real account about why they had the final fight with Kid Buu not include Gohan and Gotenks. Despite Vegeta saying as much I didn't realize just how big a deal Toriyama wanted the idea of humanity saving itself for once was supposed to be. I have a newfound respect for the way Kid Buu is defeated now
Goku died without knowing of other threats , from his point "life went on" and stayed dead. The other Z fighters dont have the "privilege" to come back as spirits with their original bodies. Also the dead dont come to solve the problems of the living. In Buu saga Goku kind of went off the rules of Yemma but since Buu was an universe threat, Yemma kind of let it go.
Maybe the "only two people in the hyperbolic time chamber" thing is true, and that's how Buu was able to break out. Maybe having 4 people inside "weakened" the dimension enough for Buu to be able to break it
Goku's issue with the Spirit Bomb isn't that Kid Buu was too strong, but it's also not about being able to detonate it. It's that Goku didn't have the strength to push the attack himself. As soon as he was healed, he became strong enough to push the Spirit Bomb. Kid Buu's pushing was too strong compared to Goku's pushing, to the point where Kid Buu could even push the Spirit Bomb, an attack designed to vanquish evil. It's kinda like a beam clash in a way.
That dende thing was a plot hole he put himself into, all he had to say was dende used up all of his power as well to the bomb and couldn't heal anyone just like whoever had no teleport energy
Mike?
Hey Qaaman, how’s it going?
@@LSMMIKE the dynamic duo lol
@@chunlifanboylol
@@LSMMIKE please do a what if video together
Love your collabs. So blessed Mike is back
I think the bigger plot hole with the Time Chamber is that Buu is able to do a LOT once he escapes while the others are trapped inside, when really they should be trapped inside for maybe a second. Especially since the anime claims there was an incredibly detailed slasher villain sequence.
That’s a super good point
That's a very, very good point considering that time is supposed to go significantly faster in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber compared to the outside world.
One day in the outside world is an entire year in the chamber, so Gotenks and Piccolo should have been able to escape back into the real world within a second in Earth's time.
I'm probably just repeating what you're saying, but I'm glad that you brought this up since it just blew right passed me all these years.
@@perspectiveofazariah yea but they were stuck for at least over a hour before they escaped since Gotenks seperated and had to wait again to fuse
actually, this is not a plot hole, Piccolo states after they leave the lockout that hes wondering why Buu hasn't blown up the earth yet since they've been in the chamber for too long and he had a lot of time since time out side is faster, he then remembers that he had backwards and they are the ones who had more time thats why Buu only had time to defeat the Z-fighters and none else
it took them hours so like a minute
Popo restocks the time chamber so fast because 1. He's fast and magic. And 2. 1 second on the outside is 365 seconds on the inside. If he only took 2 minutes on the inside to restock it, he'd be in and out in 0.3 seconds.
That is a really really good point
But he'd have to be making lunch constantly on the outside to restock it. As as soon as he leaves the chamber for even a few minutes, several hours will have passed inside the chamber. It's a very busy day for him, if he is, indeed, manually restocking it.
@@Jotari what else is he doing off-screen?
@@jacobclark6002 Popo the master Cheff🤣🤣🤣
I choose not to question Mr. Popo's ways. The reason why Mr. Popo can do what Mr. Popo does is because he is Mr. Popo
You actually make a lot of sense regarding the time chamber. A lot of other people throw out random hit about Mr. Popo upgrading it to allow more people, but NO ONE went over this part where Goku said it was set up for two people NOT limited to two people existing inside.
Yeah set up meaning the bedding and food and all that
yeah he said that in the video idiot
At least in the Anime it's literally stated the door will seal shut if more than two people enter
@@Tinfoil_Hardhat anime says < manga says
@@TaviiCatniss Not when 90% of the franchise's audience has only seen the anime, and therefore consider it the one and only authority on such things.
Ultimate Gohan and the concept of fusion was essentially time wasting ideas and or just some cool shit to see because at the end of the day, they both played zero roles in the final fight against Buu. So what was the point in introducing them? You guessed it, nothing!
For me this saga was more about WOW MOMENTS. We can go back to the cell saga & every transformation had purpose. Super sayin trunks helped defeat freeza. Super sayin vegeta helped save goku & kill 19.. they also helped stall goku’s recovery by fighting the androids. Piccolo also helped stall after kami fusion.. & of course gohan took down cell. Everything had purpose here
The "why didn't Dende heal Kaioshin" thing absolutely busted me up laughing. Fucking hilarious. I've been a hardcore DBZ fan for 25 years, debated on the battle boards, etc. Never thought of that. Unreal.
@SSJRanulf My guess would be that Dendes' healing ability heals wounds and battle damage, not general stamina.
@@StoneColdH95 what if it it's because the kai is a deity and Dende is a mortal meaning he can not heal him.
@StoneColdH95 it healed vegeta, krillin and piccolo to full ki during the freiza fight
@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716 Right, but it primarily healed the battle damage they suffered, and Ki restoration was more of a side effect..... I'm just spit balling, though.
Maybe he can't heal deities? Only mortals?
Interesting fact, Goku's life span is unlike any others as for his last reincarnation he was not officially wished back by dragon balls. He was actually giving the Life by the Elder Supreme Kai. If you remember correctly Elder Kai said he would not allow the younger Kai to do it because he had thousands of more years to live, when he only had one to two thousand years left. He considered his life fading while still having over a thousand years remaining and therefore giving up his life to Goku with all these years still ahead! This moment is probably very overlooked and something that adds completely to the plot hole as well and as far as the longevity and lifespan of Goku. Yet another crazy twist and another crazy plothole we could go have a whole nother video about! Keep up the good vibes! 👍
It’s never been stated that Goku „gained“ the Elder Kais‘ years
@@cond.oriano3264 it would be cool if that was the case
Elder Kai only exchanged the living and dead statuses, he never said he was giving the rest of his lifespan to Goku. It was just a case of "You're young and have a lot more time left to live, you should be allowed to live it" so he chose to be the one to sacrifice himself.
@@helixsol7171 I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, however as for a topic on TH-cam, and to receive views for a Dragon Ball Z topic this is as good as any. That is more or less what I was referring to since we just finished watching a video about plot holes and headcanon. However to be fair I can say that I strongly feel this point is overlooked and could also be used later by Toriyama as a tool to be exploited should he decide to ever and if he actually would remember anything! Goku easily can be rebooted as Dragon Ball Super has already done that. So episode 266 let's actually just go over this dialog. As Gohan is on death's door Goku is pleading for the Kai's that there must be something we can do. Elder Kai agrees and tells Goku we can send you down there to fight. Goku says I can't go and it is reinforced as Supreme Kai remind Elder Kai he has been whished back twice already by the Dragon Balls. So already based on this we know Elder Kai is going to perform some sort of miracle that trumps the power of the Dragon Balls. That's for starters, he specifically looks at Goku, talking to Goku, and says I'll give you the life I have left inside of me. I mean we can discuss four hours what that meant if we wanted and it doesn't matter. Point is there was not even an idea of Whis or Beerus or any gods above the Kai's, more specifically Dai Koiah'shin, whose name translates to the "great lord of lords."
Kibito tells the Elder Kai that this is unorthodox and wasn't a big enough situation for a matter like this. Elder Kai remind Majin Buu will come here after he destroys the Earth. The Supreme Kai then speaks up, he tells the Elder Kai then let me give my life. For I have lost and failed to him on many occasions, please give me a chance to repay my debt. The Elder Kai turns away from Goku, he looks right at Supreme Kai, the one he is talking to. He tells the Supreme Kai, not Goku, you're ambitious, let the old man give up their lives so that the young man can live their lives. We know the anime very well but the manga specifically is more interesting regarding this matter. He tells the Supreme Kai a little something that certainly makes this a good topic and I can see by the thumbs that it certainly would be. Elder Kai states he has only 1-2 thousand years left, but Supreme Kai had his whole life ahead of him. Unlikely and realistically Toriyama doesn't remember any of this, nor does he care as much anymore. Any future reboot from any other creator could always go back and find these episodes years down the road when Goku does not seem to be aging as fast or normally as everyone else. I think it's fantastic and would be an easy way to immortalize the character for a lot longer. They're going to continue to draw him Young for as long as possible I could imagine. This is easily a worthy topic of discussion
@@seanmartin2185 it would be funny if gokus youthful peak lasted longer while vegeta became an old man. Haha.
Id say the biggest plot hole is that most humans have pure hearts to fuel the spirit ball
In fairness, only the good people were revived. Then again, good and pure can be very different
This is actually a plot hole, albeit only if we use real world logic because we knowbmost people (if any) are "pure." Most of what he brings up are "gaps in logic" or decisions made by characters that make little sense, but do not contradict prior established rules.
@@RGA301092 then why is RR Army back hihi
@@RGA301092and considering that crime still existed after only good people were revived... Yeah, I feel like Porunga was feeling a little silly on this one
The spirit bomb takes energy from the environment around the user, including the creatures. You have to be a pure hearted person to use it, but I don't think it's ever stated you can only take energy from pure hearted sources.
Two more plotholes:
1. Super Buu having enough time to eat everyone outside the time chamber, when Gotenks should've left the chamber only a few seconds later.
2. Kid Buu not using instant transmission to avoid getting hit by the Genkidama, but instead he let that energy consume him.
I wouldnt consider those as plotholes.
1. 10 secondes still corresponds to about an hour outside so it's really plenty of time for Super Buu to eat everyone outside. Especially considering he only had to cast a large spell on the whole gang all at once and voilà :]
2. Kid Buu is portrayed as a brainless fighter so it would kind of be out of character to act strategically. He's acting on instinct and wouldn't think about fleeing when facing the genkidama.
That last point is far fetched I'll give you that lol, but it's essentially the same "warrior gene" kind of justification (the same way as Cell could've done the same trick as Goku in order to blitz Gohan instead of facing him head on)
Goku couldn’t do it when the earth was about to blow up, he needed to focus so same goes for Kid buu
@@atheist2025 Yet he used the instant transmission while holding an energy strong enough to blow up the earth lol.
@@MsMRkv 1: the genkidama was coming at him he wasn’t holding it nor was it his energy.
2: he had already pushed it back once and might of assumed he could do it again.
3: he was afraid and angry both emotions clouding his focus and adding on to his rashness to push it back.
@@darkry973 You're getting it wrong. Inside the time chamber times goes by faster than outside, not the other way around, so Gotenks should've exited it not even 5 seconds after Buu did.
And the other one, Kid Buu had plenty of time to just Dodge that giant ball, he didn't even need instant transmission, he might be a brainless fool for certain things but he's a combat genius, but ok, after deflecting it once maybe he thought he could do it a second time.
Cell on the other hand, had the upper hand almost all of the time, his defeat was so sudden he didn't even had time to react to it, had he been losing, I have no doubt he would've used instant transmission to escape (or at least in a realistic scenario)
The whole Genki Dama scene in hilarious.
Vegeta starts off so confident. “It’s time the people of earth saved themselves for once.”
Then he asks for the Kais to go to Namek. But they don’t have the Dragon Balls? Nope! They anticipated this and gathered them already.
Bring everyone on Earth back to life! But Porunga can only bring back 1 person at a time? Nope! We fixed that too.
Great! Now Vegeta asks Supreme Kai to let him speak to the people of Earth, but Supreme Kai doesn’t have that power? Oh! But here’s King Kai chiming in offering to set it up! Perfect.
Now the people of Earth aren’t even listening. But Mr. Satan is here to convince everyone to help.
Now Goku’s out of energy. But of course Porunga is there waiting for the third wish to restore his energ and everything works out.
Vegeta’s plan was terrible. It only worked due to a series of Deus ex machina that he didn’t account for. Obviously not all plot holes, but really funny story-telling nonetheless.
King Kai having a power like telepathy but not Supreme Kai is ridiculous lol. King Kai is more tuned into what goes on with Earth but Shin hasn't been paying any attention for probably millenniums. He's as good as useless in the whole arc and even moreso in Super where everything he says is incredibly annoying and obvious.
I think it was Toriyama wanting everyone to participate in someway to make it a real team effort that beat Buu. Still a bad plan but I can understand where Vegeta is coming from since the Z fighters aren't going to be around forever...... unless they want to the dragon balls are a thing.
It seemed like that was the point of both the Cell saga and Buu saga at first was Goku can't always be the one to save everyone but then Toriyama shifted it so that Goku was back to life and only had Vegeta with him for some reason.
The Namekians during Buu saga could sense the whole conflict from the beginning since everyone in the Majin Buu arc is far more powerful, so they gathered the Namek Balls in case.
Goku leaving his sons to die to save Saten was pretty stupid also when Gohan alone could've defeated kid buu or even gotenx while fused
Lol I think Toriyama just wanted to end the series and came up with every deus ex machina that he could.😂
Babidi no wanting to run around with Boo, and trying to gather enough energy by going from planet to planet makes a lot of sense.
He wanted to ressurect Boo at full power. Any complications on the trip could have awakened Boo prematurely.
Attacking Freeza, who might have blown up the ship if they tried, wouldn't really be that smart either.
And who knows how long that might have taken.
Not like he had anyone except Dabura that could touch Frieza
But Dabura was his most recent addition to his allies since Shin didn’t know until seeing him himself
Either way, this is a "gap in logic" not a "plot hole." Nothing that was established is contradicted, babidi is just acting stupid in order for plot to happen.
You know, all these years, I never thought of what you said about Babidi getting Freeza. I can only speculate that he didn't care since he had Dabura and just wanted to keep busy searching planets for Buu. Considering how big the universe is, it would take forever, and there's no point in gathering energy until he finds it either.
This isn’t really a plot hole, but the filler of the previous villains in hell watching SSJ3 Goku vs. Kid Buu through a glass ball with the dramatic music is amazing. And I always thought it was canon.
If I remember right in the English dub anime Goku simply didn't have the energy to keep pushing the Spirit Bomb forward into Kid Buu, meaning Buu was able to stop it and start pushing it back.
That always made perfect sense to me and sounds a lot better then the manga saying Goku doesn't have the energy to "detonate" the Spirit Bomb.
It’s not like Vegeta knows how the Spirit Bomb works anyway. I doubt he ever had a sit down with Goku to discuss the mechanics of it. Maybe he just said that line because that’s what he’s assuming.
Fortune teller baba could have died in trunks’ timeline. Maybe she can only give one day passes while she herself is still alive. And babidi may have waited so long to revive buu because it was the first time in his life someone as strong as gohan and cell had appeared without needing majin magic to boost them
I'd say a big plothole is everyone still thinking that Gohan was dead, even though they'd *just* used the DBs to wish back everyone who'd died since the day of the tournament (except the bad guys). Kuririn later says they can't sense Gohan's ki and that's used as an additional justification for why none of them clocked on that Gohan can't be dead, but... none of them could sense Tenshinhan's ki either.
The only way that whole plot point works is if everyone just decidedd to hold the Idiot Ball for several days straight, and no-one ever brought up the fact that Gohan would've been included in the wish to bring those people back.
They probably just assumed Gohan died sometime after the wish was made. They can’t sense his energy, and he’s not the type to go into hiding, him being dead is the only explanation they can think of.
Didn’t they phrase the wish as “everyone who was killed at the World Tournament today?” Bulma and co didn’t know about the threat of Buu, hence why Goku had to go to them and tell them to stop.
@@paliboy93 it was more along the lines of "bring back everyone that died today except the really bad ones"
@@paliboy93 This wish ressurected Kibito and he wasn't there
There is definitely alot of handwaving away nonsense in this arc. I mean once the fusion dance is explained there is no reason they can't just teach it to everyone. It canonicaly only takes like a few hours to learn it.
What about instant transmission you think Goku could teach it to some people or Kaioken
When the fusion dance was first introduced, it was explained to be very conditional. The biggest issue being that all of the fighters wildly vary in height. I think Vegeta and Future Trunks are the only other match. However that of course got completely thrown out later, at which point there was no further excuse.
I think for the Spirit Bomb and why Goku didn't need the energy to 'detonate' it in the previous instances is that Goku scored a clean hit with it on Frieza, and Vegeta got hit by it cleanly too.
Buu is putting up resistance to it and is actually fighting back, and Goku doesn't have the energy to win this invisible tug-of-war. So maybe a fall back idea would be to try and detonate it on the spot? But he couldn't even manage that it seems.
still a plot hole since the spirit bomb had no other mechanics to it until this final arc (which just screams tacked on tbh)
@@oscaratriano8534 That wouldn't be a plot hole, at worst it's contrived for that moment.
@@Naruku2121yeah I guess you’re right it’s contrived at most (like a mini retcon)
The real spirit bomb plothole is how frieza survived but Buu didn't despite the one that hit Frieza being planet-sized and him being completely unable to resist it.
@@franklinturtleton6525 I'm not sure that's even a plot hole. The one used against Buu was a lot stronger given the number of people involved contributing to it's power.
While the one with Frieza seemed to have a lot of neighboring planets natural energy, but no 'willing sentient contributors' like the one for Buu.
Not to mention Frieza would go on to prove just how durable he actually is, even if he doesn't have a regen factor. Considering he got cut in half by his own attack, tanked an enraged SSJ attack that likely meant to kill him, then tanks a planet explosion after THAT, and then floats around in the vacuum of space for some unspecified time until his Father picked him up.
One thing ive always wondered is what would happen if they left the door open to the time chamber. I imagine them looking out of it when somebodies walking in and seeing them approaching in super slow motion whilst the one walking in sees them in super speed lol
afaik if the door is open the time stops speeding up inside; it's like a normal room until you close the door
9:10 What I always considered a plothole is what Babidi spent millions of years doing and Freezer. During the moments where Z warriors arrive at Babidi's ship, the reason as to why Dabura transforms Piccolo into stone is because "He is too weak, and his power would be insigificant in the process to awake Majin Buu" as Babidi says. Thing is, if Piccolo (who went hand to hand against 17, then spent a few months on the time chamber, and after that trained during 7 years) is considered "insignificantly weak", then what were Babidi's standards lmao. One would think that ocassionaly draining Dabura for centuries would be his best and pretty much only osorio because, remember, there was no one canonically stronger than Freezer (who is NOTHING compared to Android saga Piccolo) in the entire universe.
Even if we consider Super, there isn't anyone stronger than Freezer. Beerus is sleeping (and too much for Babidi to handle), Hit, Zamasu and Jiren are from other universes/timelines, Broly is in a lost, uninhabitable planet, Moro was a prisioner and who knows if Babidi even knew he existed (even if he knew, probably thougth he was dead), and Granolah/Gas haven't done their wish. SO, no one in the universe could possibly surpass Freezer's power (besides, of course, Beerus), which makes you wonder: If Freezer is, in fact, the most powerfull being the universe has ever seen and no one is above him, isn't it like to logical thing to, you know, go drain him off his energy? Yes, Piccolo is infinitely stronger and yet is considered useless, but I insist, there is NO ONE stronger than Freezer, it was that way for probably centuries. Or what about King Cold. It's not the best, but it's literally the only being that has more than 100 power units lmao. Also, he is actively eliminating races after races. The more Freezer conquers, less living organisms will exist to possibly drain in order to feed Majin Buu's revival.
What I am trying to say is, Freezer is a direct opposition to Babidi's plan, and it's not good writing that he just let the only strong being in the universe slowly extinguish the very same life he needed to wake up Buu. It doesn't make sense one way or another.
My problem with Z is that Freezer, for being the emperor of the universe, has absolutely no impact in the entire universe whatsoever. He died and it's like no one ever had hears of him. That's why Super writes Freezer WAY BETTER, because we have seen the impact in laws and security that his army has in the universe and its people (during Moro arc) and how the criminals work for him, what is his business and how the economy moves around this empire (Granolah arc). Freezer should have been adressed during Buu's saga, yet he wasn't
We don’t even know when Babidi recruited Dabura, so who knows what he was doing back then
The reason it took Babidi so long to get to Earth was because (1) he didn't know where Buu was, (2) he had to learn the spell to release him since I'm assuming Bibidi died before he could teach him, (3) he was running away from the Supreme Kai
i noticed how Toriyama completely inverts how the time chamber works, time is supposed to go fast inside the chamber and slow on the outside, however when Buu escapes the time chamber dimension, time goes fast on the outside. In theory Piccolo and Gotenks should have all the time in the world to escape the time chamber dimension and save everybody before Buu kills the entire cast. For me this is such a indicative of how much Toriyama was burned out on DB and just wanted to kill the entire cast and be done with it
Actually it took them three hours to escape the time chamber (remember, Gotenks had to defuse and fuse again), which gave Buu about five minutes to kill everyone.
@@Jotari Beat me to it, Super Buu is the same guy that commited total genocide of all of humanity in less than a minute so to think he couldn't kill everyone on the lookout in the time that Goten, Trunks and Piccolo were stuck in there is a bit silly.
As someone else mentioned in another comment from doing the maths, Buu had a bare minimum of about five minutes to kill everyone on the lookout. Again: total planetary genocide of presumably billions of people in under a minute.
@@QuakeGamerROTMG Well, these people were a bit tougher than the ones down below on Earth. Plus, he might have had a bit of fun with them too.
@@Jotari I can crush a relatively strong ant the same as a relatively weak ant. Buu is the same.
So 1 year in the time chamber = 1 day outside. Every minute outside is 6 hours in the time chamber. In order for Buu to get 5 minutes they would be in there for over a day.
Idk which comment you saw, but the math for this is 1 day = 365 days, 1 hour = 365 hours, 1 minute = 365 minutes. 365 minutes / 60 = 6.08 hours. 6.08x5 = 30.4 hours for 5 minutes.
I feel like maybe in that last "Why didn't they bring Gohan back to fight kid buu...etc"...Gohan, Trunks, and Goten all got tricked and absorbed by buu and then became too strong for Goku and Vegeta separately. They probably didn't want to risk that again. Goku wouldn't think of that, but Vegeta would have.
*Also, Goku tried to let the new generation take over, but they all fumbled.
No, nobody fumbled, the writing was just mega dog ass. The villain was an unstoppable invincible regenerating monster that could just eat everyone and destroy reality??? Goku and Vegeta had to ALREADY BE DEAD to beat him, but since the writing is STILL mega dog ass, this time all it took was a spirit bomb weaker than the one that clipped frieza's tail???? Never attempt to justify or defend the buu saga, it is braindead beyond salvation. Team Four Star wouldn't even touch it
@@bigdiddyzp1762 damn chill bro
Its Buu - not Boo Boo - ill kill you all . Thee best line ever 😂
When gotenks kicks him so hard it changes his eye color for the rest of the series lol that's a big one
That was cuz in the manga his eyes were always red and they needed to change it
@@darkgenics I like the first theory better
Yeah there's problems. It's still a fun arc. Great video!
I think the first plot hole you discussed is really up to debate on how you view Fortuneteller Baba. Her magic, and thus her special ability of allowing "visitations" for a single day isn't explained in great detail. Yet, you can still argue about whether it is a plot hole or not as both people we see be brought back for a day are both fighters that died a violent death. Grandpa Gohan more than likely tried to fight/calm Ozaru Goku, but died to him instead, which would count as a non-natural death in DB lore. And in the normal timeline (the one we follow), Goku dies against an exploding Cell.
Now, if you believe that Fortuneteller Baba works differently then the Dragon Balls, then yes, it would be a plot hole. But considering that both people brought back were fighters that didn't die of natural causes, I don't really consider it a plot hole (in the Trunks timeline, Goku dies of natural causes, meaning that maybe, Baba can't retrieve him). This also doesn't bring up the fact that Baba never even meets most of the Z-fighters until she allows Goku a day off from death, particularly Gohan, who would be the only one able to take on the androids. Remember, Vegeta is in Hell, Piccolo never fused with Kami, and everyone else would be too weak.
I thought it was because Goku was allowed to keep his body and train. I always say the other z fighters not getting that chance so they couldn’t have been brought back for a day
Piccolo training for five years in the aferlife probably would have been able to take on the androids with Baba's help. Plus, if he's brought back for a day...does that mean Kami can work his magic and bring the dragon balls back for a day?
You can't argue its a plot hole at all because it is a "gap in logic" not plot hole. The truth of the matter is, no matter how stupid a decision may be, it can still be made. Nothing is contradicted, the characters are just acting questionably in a manner some may perceive as unbelievable.
The thing with the ROST, I think Goku also knew Vegeta was avoiding Trunks, so he could have said it just to set up a reason for Vegeta and Trunks to train together seperately and not actually a rule. If it was Piccolo or Mr. Popo would have said it.
The whole saga
In your opinion.
@@consciousmindgame5047 no not my opinion, it's just a joke relax.
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD jokes don't exist anymore sadly.
@@consciousmindgame5047 who said it was an opinion? 🗿
@@MeikaiX it's unfortunate the times we live in
Retroactively would’ve made sense as Dr. Gero likely immediately sent out spy bots to look at Goku’s journey- likely picking up on that detail of the one day revival and putting two and two together about Baba likely doing a temporary revival to have the heroes intervene at the last minute. So he or the Androids pulled a King Piccolo and removed the middle man.
One of Supreme Kai's lines implies that they didn't know Babidi existed until very recently. I feel like that's probably part of why he wouldn't want to pull some of the big moves you mentioned. The shorter a time frame he can pack his big plan into, the better his chances of pulling it off without the Kais getting involved.
Out of everything on the list, the Dende not healing Shin thing is the only actually credible plot-hole in my eyes
20:00 The dragon's power is limited in the same way as during the Frieza saga. He could teleport Goku off of Namek, but only if Goku allowed it.
Honestly, Vegeta's decision to have humans take part in saving the universe kind of makes the transition into GT Vegeta smoother than I realised, since he's already becoming the protector of Earth as he ends up being.
glad your answering the plothole’s your stating but dende and kibito were tired.
If Piccolo/Kami were brought back for one day, then would the dragon balls be brought back for one day?
He might of had to make them again
@@atheist2025 but wouldn’t a day be long enough to create and collect them?
@@karnage2948 androids might still be after them
@@atheist2025 They can't sense Ki, just pop them in the temple and they would never ever be able to find them.
@@Dexuz til they are used
Great to see you better. You look a lot healthier and happy. I will always watch your videos, Mike
18:47 okay okay 😂you got me. That’s a Big plot hole and super good point
The buu being around since the beginning of time can easily be explained.
If shin and the other kaioshins didn't know buu existed then when bibidi showed up with buu it's possible that shin and the other kaioshins believed that bibidi creates buu.
This is true. So many instances of characters being unreliable sources. Just because a character says something doesn't make it true. Frieza calls Goku a monkey all the time, yet Goku isn't a monkey.
@whitgreuber saiyans turn into giant monkeys even though the dub calls it great ape it's actually a giant monkey
@@whitgreuber uhh correction Goku actually IS a monkey 🥱🐒
Plot twist: Moori is secretly the strongest in the universe XD
That goes to Lord Popo
Never noticed Dende could heal Kaioshin
Toriyama creating the concept of "God-Ki" could help handwave that plot hole.
@@zaja2418 That introduces a new plothole in that the Z-Fighters could sense Supreme Kai.
@@William256 Maybe a wizard did it?
@@zaja2418 It's not worth theory crafting a way to make sense of Toriyama's retcons. He simply forgot what he wrote so he didn't realise he contradicted himself.
@@William256 That was a Simpsons reference, mate. Sorry I wasn't clear.
Kabito kai should've been able to heal himself he can heal
What if healing, like offensive techniques requires ki?
i never realized the plot hole with Dende and whats-his-face being too out of energy to teleport. That's just hilarious.
I talked about plotholes in the Buu saga in the DBZ subreddit and got downvoted to hell. People on any DB subreddit are super toxic. This arc so bafflingly terrible even if it has epic moments. Problem is they don't mean anything. Majin Vegeta's battle? Nothing. Goku and Vegeta's battle? Stupid, it's not a proper rematch. It would've been if SSJ3 wasn't so poorly retconned, but even then it'd be stupid, because Goku could just instant transmission over to Dabura and take him out, then take care of Babadi.
Also, him leaving the mess HE helped create to literal children he's never really seen fight is so stupid. Arguably the stupidest decision Goku has ever made. He made it a mission not to come back to life because he figured his present would cause issues. Well he was right lol. One day back on Earth and within hours he unleashes a monster that actually does ending up destroying the planet, the very reason he was sent to Earth.The Android arc was messy for sure but it was extremely epic. It had some of the most meaningful moments in anime history and even if it was changed around a lot at the seam of Toriyama's pants, he did it at his best in that arc. It was so epic, scary, emotional, the perfect arc to really end DBZ on and I know so many agree with this.
I imagine Babidi never went after Freeza or his father because he didn't want to risk antagonizing an entire galactic empire without his big pink bodyguard. He might have been able to take their energy if he really tried but it would mean putting his neck on the line and even then the Supreme Kai likely would have noticed something was wrong and found him if the galactic emperors suddenly went missing.
I mean dabura would be stronger than frieza but yeah if babidi attacked or tried to mind control frieza problems would occur like they did in budakai 2.
Babidi was stronger than freezer.
@@renatoramos8834 yeah but do you think hed be able to handle the entire frieza force at the same time if he angered them?
Also Frieza supposedly was weaker than Supreme Kai
@@jacobweatherford4696 yeah cuz most of them are weaklings
Gotta say Mike love these types of videos that are deep dives into the manga
That was the biggest spirit bomb he used … so obviously he needs more energy…
For the first one it could've been that Baba saw the future and knew what will happen if she lets it be and she could've thought it was ok in a sense. For the goku black thing tho is that Baba thought that the dead Z fighters would be too weak.
Buu Saga deserves more credit
Cough *Especially after Super*
BUT WAIT! Gohan, Goten and Trunks ARE legitimate earthlings so, it's actually their moral business to save the earth after all ...
19:33 becouse shin needed to be useless one more time just before the series ends
About the Cell Arc, did Gero, the Androids or Cell know about the dragon balls? They never mention it nor do they care about it. Same for Babidi and Dabura.
For a show called Dragon Ball, it's pretty hilarious.
I never thought about this before 😂. You make a great point.
Cell knew about the dragonballs. Reread the first fight between piccolo and cell
Thank you for making this video Great analysis.
Goku told Vegeta that only two people could enter the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at once to deliberately have Vegeta bond with Trunks. It was never true.
There's A LOT of plot holes during the Buu Saga that you didn't mention.
1. Supreme Kai - The Supreme Kai has instantaneous movement. Unlike Goku's instant transmission, Supreme Kai does not need to lock on to a ki signature and can move anywhere in the universe (like that tall grass planet when they fought Kid Buu). So why didn't he just teleport them directly to the bottom of Babbidi's ship so they could destroy Buu? Why risk playing by Babbidi's rules and fighting at each level and giving Buu energy? Also, why didn't Supreme Kai teleport himself and Gohan away from Buu when Buu was hatched? Why did they try to fly away instead? Fat Buu didn't know instant transmission so he would not have been able to follow them.
2. Goku - Why did Goku agree to fight Vegeta when he knew it risked awakening Buu? Yes, Vegeta was threatening to go on a killing spree, but Goku already knew they could just revive anyone who died with the Dragon Balls. Majin Vegeta didn't care if Buu got awakened or not, so Goku or the Supreme Kai could have offered to teleport Goku and Vegeta to some place other than what Babidi considered Stage 3 of his ship. Babbidi's magic wasn't all-present. It's not like the fight with Frieza or Cell gave Buu energy, so Vegeta probably would have agree to be teleported somewhere else if it meant fighting Goku. Instead, they let Babidi do it, which meant it would be part of Stage 3 and be able to feed Buu energy. Why didn't Goku go SS3 against Majin Vegeta? He could have just knocked him out in one blow and powered down right after. This would not have eaten up much of his remaining time, and he'd still have plenty of time to help Gohan destroy Buu's ball. Remember, he was SS3 for like 30 minutes later on when he fought Fat Buu, and even then it didn't burn up ALL his remaining time. And about that fight, why did it take place at all? Goku wanted to stall Buu to give Trunks time to find the Dragon Radar. But why not just teleport there himself and get it? I know that narratively it's because Toriyama wanted to show off SS3, but in story it makes no sense.
3. Gohan - Why did everyone believe that Gohan was dead when they had just made a wish to bring everyone who died the day of the tournament back to life? If Gohan HAD died fighting Fat Buu, he'd have been revived by that wish, right? Yet when Chichi is told Gohan and Vegeta are dead, she faints, as if the wish she'd just helped make in the previous episode meant nothing. Also, when Goku returned to the afterlife and found Gohan still alive, why didn't he use King Kai to contact the others and let them know? This would have comforted Chichi, whom he claimed to care about, if nothing else. Had Piccolo known that Gohan was still alive and training to beat Buu, he could have factored this into his battle strategy concerning Goten and Trunks. Perhaps they could have timed the fusion take place when Gohan got back instead of it ending before then.
4. Old Kai - How was he aware of everything that was going on up to that point without being told? If its because he was a Kai, then why did the current Supreme Kai constantly get surprised by Goku and Vegeta's powers? Shouldn't he have already known about everything that happened up to that point using the same powers that Old Kai had? How was the witch able to sneak up on Old Kai if he lived in the World of the Kais? They said even the Grand Kai wasn't allowed there, so how did some random witch get in? Why did Old Kai lie about the fusion earrings being permanent when they were only permanent for Kais? Did he just honestly not know? Because if that's the case, he could have corrected himself when Goku and Vegeta came to the Kai Planet and he was trying to convince them to use the earrings. He could have mentioned that, obviously, they weren't permanent for mortals, since Goku and Vegeta had de-fused after an hour. Even if he hadn't known that when he gave them to Goku, he should have figured it out when he saw Goku and Vegeta reemerge individually from Buu's body after watching them be absorbed as Vegito.
5. Vegeta - Why did Majin Vegeta take so long to blow up Babbidi's ship? He knocks Goku out, the does nothing for an entire episode while Gohan and Supreme Kai are beaten almost to death, and THEN he inserts himself into the situation. If he was "sorry" for not helping Gohan, then why didn't he just help him? Why did Vegeta say goodbye to Trunks when he knew that he could be revived with the Namekian Dragon Balls? Did he just assume that after what he did at the tournament that no one would want to wish him back? How did Vegeta find out about SS3 when he was in Other World? Piccolo said that Vegeta would not get the same reward as Goku when he died, so I guess that means that Vegeta went to Hell with all the other villains. So does that also mean that that giant crystal ball we see in Hell during the Kid Buu fight was being used by the villains the entire time? Were Frieza and later Cell spending every day and night watching Goku and later Gohan's lives on Earth? And if that's the case, then what happened when Vegeta showed up and Frieza, Cell, and the Ginyu Force were all there? Did they all just tolerate each other's presence because they were so invested in watched SS3 Goku fight Fat Buu? This seems unlikely since, during the Kid Buu fight, someone asks who was fighting with Goku and that's when Babbidi explains who Buu is. So that implies that the Kid Buu fight is the first time any of the other villains saw Buu. So then how did Vegeta find out about SS3 if the rest of the events on Earth weren't being broadcast in Hell?
Here are some responses.
1. Babidi is a wizard. He could have set up various traps. So the Supreme Kai could have seen that as a reason not to use instantenous movement. Second I'm pretty sure this is you misremembering. Kibito was the one to show that ability. And then they fuse and then Kibito Kai is shown using that.
2. Goku thought he could convince Vegeta to stop fighting him. And its explained why he didn't use SS3. When he used it against Buu and later to show Goten and trunks his time was used up on earth. Goku had no idea of how long he'd be able to last on earth in that form. You do realize with instant trnasmission Goku needs an energy signature to lock onto right? Goku can not just show up wherever with it.
3. Ya know there is this thing about resurrections in Dragognball. People are revived where they died. Its why there had to be a wish to have Krillin's "soul" dragged to earth and THEN revived. I say this because since Gohan wasn't revived on the lookout he just as easily could have encountered buu again and get killed AGAIN. And since no one could sense him there would be no reason to think he was still alive.
4. Ok there are some things to consider. First we can either include Super in this discussion or not. If we include Super clearly Supreme Kais are taught be elder ones to take the position. But our Supreme Kai didn't get that because the person who would have been his teacher was sealed. So he had no one to teach him how to do those things. You might argue he had the kai who Buu absorbed but we don't know how long the two had spent time together. So those lessons could have happened by then. And this expands to the whole witch thing. Ambiguity is NOT the same as a plot hole. The supreme kai planet is just a planet at the end of the day. Anyone CAN travel there. Its just going to be easier if you have someone who knows the way. Similar to King Kai's planet. Old Kai DIDN'T know about the time limit. Its funny you bring that up but ignore the fact they thought that was because Buu is FREAKING MAGIC. The assumption he made at the time was that Buu's MAGIC body counteracted the fusion.
5. It isn't a plot hole that Vegeta took long to blow up the ship. That is anime pacing. That is NOT the same thing. What the hell are you taling about with Vegeta not just helping Gohan? Do you not know what regret IS? Why would Vegeta think people would revive him when everyone saw him kill the people on the tournament ground?! Also you do realize Baba was the one to bring Vegeta back right? The same person who brought Goku back and saw his transformation to SS3 on the lookout. Plus if you take into account filler Buu was able to sense Goku and Vegeta powering up to SS2 and follow it to the Supreme Kai planet from the other world. And SS3 is way stronger than that. So it would stand to reason Vegeta could sense Goku doing that. The villains keeping their bodies is a filler thing. So that is an inconsistency caused by that.
I wanted to save this for my journey but damn, I could not wait. Thanks for this upload, Mike.
Freezer couldn't have been nearly strong enough for babidi's purposes, considering that pui pui would have been many times stronger than freezer at that point in the story.
But if badidi put him under mind control that would’ve actually been motivation for him to train and with that much time not even beerus is a threat
@@fireman6986 Beerus would absolutely erase freeza
Is he, though?
Vegeta wanting to let the humans score the win on Buu with their own power is the most out of character shit in the whole series lol. Also can we confirm Gotenks, and especially Gohan, could defeat Kid Buu when Goku struggled so much? I thought Goku wanted to fuse with Gohan since they had similar power levels. Also kid Buu fought in very unorthodox ways and Gohan's kinda ass in a fight even if he his crazy strong
if supreme kai could hear vegeta’s thoughts how come he wasn’t aware that vegeta wanted the majin transformation? he was suprised when vegeta turned majin
Vegeta didn't want the Majin transformation. Moreso he accepted it when it came to him.
Also, Supreme Kai was realizing what Babidi's plan was directly before Vegeta was being afflicted with Majin. Supreme Kai was just simply not fast enough to react with a counter measure. He was definitely the weakest in member of both groups. Unprepared, half-baked plan, underestimated his allies and enemies, etc.
@@kenja0685it probably doesn’t happen in the manga, but in the anime Vegeta said he made up his mind to coax Babidi into mind controlling him DURING Goku’s fight with Yakkon. He said the inflammatory remarks to Gohan purposefully so Dabura would notice the evil in his heart and suggest this to Babidi. Theoretically, Supreme Kai should’ve known that. All said and done, the Buu arc has pretty poor writing even by Toriyama’s standards. But Supreme Kai is still a massive blunder of a character.
For the time chamber, as you were explaining what Goku actually said in the Cell Saga about it, I immediately thought to myself "What he's saying is that if there were more time to prepare, it can be made to house more than two, but there's no time to get that set up *right now*" though that still doesn't explain why Piccolo and Buu could go in there with the boys, unless Popo just has it set up for 4 or 5 people on the chance that something like Cell would happen again and they need to train quicker and he just didn't say anything
I watched this when I was like 5. Too young to notice any plot holes :)
I don't think Parunga restoring Goku's energy is a plot hole
My answer to why babbadi waited this long to try to gather energy to release buu is because of SSJ2 Gohan from the cell arc. I feel like Gohan was the key to finally achieving enough pure energy for buu’s release. After all, Deborah’s power is equal to cell saga gohan’s power which would be a trigger to allow babbadi to finally go to earth and try collecting the energy. Also sorta explains why the supreme kai was on earth at the time, js like babbadi they realized on earth now can potentially release buu, let’s go check it out before babbadi does
I thought daburas power was stated to be near equal to perfect cell?
@@jacobweatherford4696 Goku's first guess is that Dabura is around the level of "a guy named Cell we fought seven years ago" (he never clarifies if he means Perfect Cell or Super Perfect Cell).
Then, as soon as Goku sees Dabura fight Gohan (who is stated to have gotten weaker than he was at the Cell Games), he says that Dabura is "better than I thought".
Take that as you will.
@@zaja2418 i mean it would be dumb if he was talking about imperfect or semi perfect cell, so it would stand to reason he would be talking about the current iteration of the not so ultimate lifeform.
Sooo...Dabura is somewhere between Perfect/Super Perfect Cell and Rusty Buu Saga Gohan, both of whom were weaker than Cell Games SS2 Gohan?
@@RGA301092 id say that sounds fair
I don't know if it happened in the manga, but when Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu were training to take on Vegeta and Nappa Mr. Popo had them train in the time chamber against the two Saiyans. Different function, but I think the same room in the lookout.
youre back with dragon ball what ifs! yay :D
and yeah dragon ball makes no sense overall. subscribed
Biggest plot hole that needs addressing is the Super Buu killing everyone in the lookout.
Mostly to address in the Manga, that Gotenks *re-fused* in the time chamber prior to breaking out, but it's never really shown or addressed that well. I believe it's _vaguely_ mentioned.
my biggest grief with babidi. why didn’t he take control of frieza earlier. he controlled the universe for years. with his resources he’d be way better off. and we know he could have taken control of frieza because dabura is way stronger than frieza
Mike, I love your commentary man, freaking love it. That Android 18 line got me bawling my eyes out.
On Porunga being able to refresh Goku, it's kind of like how Krillin was able to wish for Shenron to take the bombs out of 17 and 18, but couldn't make them fully human.
I will agree it does seem odd that while Babadi was fly around the universe he was gathering great fighters it does seem odd that he wasn't collecting power as for Majin Buu also, it's possible that maybe over time that power burns off and even when first located there wasn't enough strong fighters in the universe to power up Majin Buu. Overall while the fights in the Buu were great I think the reason it's the least liked out of all the DBZ arcs is because there are a ton of plot holes and truly it was an ill conceived story overall.
Super Buu is the most powerful Buu I've always said that plus Goku was getting tossed with Buutenks but able to hang with Kid Buu, Gohan was definitely stronger than that Buu
I feel like its within the dragons power to influence stronger people IF they accept it.
Also restoring someone’s stamina should be quite simple no matter how strong the person is
I kind of feel that Dende would have been in trouble so maybe it’s good that he didn’t go. But it wasn’t stated. As for the dragon restoring energy.. I feel like it’s usually when you get destructive towards someone that it’s a problem for the dragon.
Welcome back again Mike! You're popping up on my feed everytime! Algorithm seems to be set back in your favor... and since you're doing this for fun I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon! Welcome back buddy
Lol I never even noticed the 'Dende not healing Supreme Kai' plot hole
It could be argued that Dende might not have enough energy to sufficiently restore both of them.
You know I have interests in films and other anime besides Dragonball Mike and I'm glad to see you're back.
I thought we weren't allowed to talk about anything wrong with Z now that Super's out? 😅
A plot hole I always wondered about is if Gohan was the strongest character then shouldn't just his energy be enough to defeat Boo? Then shouldn't it have been enough with just the Z team? So why wasn't it enough on its own and why did they need everyone from earth to donate energy?
I've heard that Genki is not power level per se, but more of a metaphysical concept, like soul energy. In short, some people have the theory that everyone's Genki is about the same.
@@zaja2418 if that is the case then why risk the fate of everything on cooperation when they could have just wished Gohan there?
@@bmb-ub6ecBecause the Spirit Bomb is a more fantastic conclusion than just having Mystic Gohan come whoop Buu’s ass. The crazy fantastical dramatic approach that Gotenks took to fighting was just Toriyama making fun of himself.
@@zaja2418 wouldnt this make the Spirit bomb during the TOP absolutely garbage in strength?
The real hero of this arc Mr Satan
To add to the Spirit Bomb thing, Krillin straight up throws a Spirit Bomb and has it blow up on Vegeta. While it wasn't strong enough to kill Vegeta, it at least damaged him a good bit and there was no resistance on Vegeta's part, only attempting to dodge it.
It could be that the dragons can't make someone stronger, but able to summon infinite amount of energy?
Maybe Goku didn't visit in the original timeline and fight the androids because he's a horrible person like everyone says he is 😀
Gotenks learned SSJ3 just from observing it.
Vegeta not postponing his battle with Goku, to stop Buu from being revived.
Goku not destroying Buu.
Gotenks not destroying Buu.
Ultimate Gohan not destroying Buu.
Vegito not destroying Buu
Goku and Vegeta not using potara fusion again to defeat Buu on the Kai planet.
These are my top issues wi..... O.... You said plot holes and not...... Gotcha.
The not using potara shit is clear. BUU was infused so he wanted to fight fair
Well Gotenks is a fusion so it isn't too high pitch for them to learn ssj3
You can definitely argue Goku, Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan (sort of), Vegito, and Goku+Vegeta literally toying with Buu just like Vegeta and Gohan did with Cell or Goku did with Frieza or the Androids.
The Saiyans have a massive Hubris that causes a crap ton of problems for them in the long run. Literally, the only character that doesn't have Hubris is Future Trunks and that's because he's seen the worst of the worst and doesn't take any chances EXCEPT against Cell when he didn't want to show Vegeta his Grade 3 power he thought was better than him.
Goten and trunks knew what it looked like so it made it easier to reach that benchmark
Vegeta isn’t a patient guy he didn’t care about anything else except his rematch with goku
Goku couldn’t sustain ssj3
Gotenks didn’t have enough time to defeat buu
Gohan was too overconfident
Vegito’s purpose wasn’t to kill buu it was to save piccolo, gotenks, and gohan which were all inside buu.
They didn’t use potato again because they were already defused and didn’t want to “permanently” merge their bodies again and also they thought they could take buu without merging
characters being dumb =/= plotholes
All that took place in 1 day
Regarding "two people in the time chamber," I am pretty sure Goku was being slippery about it to trick Vegeta to go with Trunks. I remember he admit that somewhere.
That’s probably dub only lol, never said in the Japanese
I know Z post cell games is the least popular, and rightly so. But I thought it was pretty good until post vegeta final explosion. That's when it went off the rails overall quality wise to me.
I hate the Great Saiyaman Saga
Looking back now there’s no justification for goten & trunks becoming super sayin like nothing, let alone becoming super sayin 3. Prior to that every transformation has build up & emotion. I got absolutely none of that from goten & trunks
In dragon Ball super, Frieza mentions that King Cold told him never to face Majin Buu or Beerus. So they were at least aware of Buu's existence, and probably wouldn't have gone along with his plans even if he did approach them
Totally unrelated, I've always loved the thought of Kid Buu being less powerful than Super and Majin Buu but stil being the "final" boss!!
Maybe Buu really was around before Bibidi, if Majin Buu had been around during the beginning of the universe's creation but was sealed, it is definitely possible even the Kaioshin didn't know of his existence until Bibidi took control of him and used his power to destroy things, and before Beerus was introduced they called Kid/Pure Buu "The God of Destruction" and unlike Cell who's a manmade creation, there's some merit to the title for them to claim him as such because relatively speaking before BOG/DBS, he was definitely the most powerful being in the universe.
I never took that to real account about why they had the final fight with Kid Buu not include Gohan and Gotenks. Despite Vegeta saying as much I didn't realize just how big a deal Toriyama wanted the idea of humanity saving itself for once was supposed to be.
I have a newfound respect for the way Kid Buu is defeated now
Goku died without knowing of other threats , from his point "life went on" and stayed dead.
The other Z fighters dont have the "privilege" to come back as spirits with their original bodies.
Also the dead dont come to solve the problems of the living.
In Buu saga Goku kind of went off the rules of Yemma but since Buu was an universe threat, Yemma kind of let it go.
Maybe the "only two people in the hyperbolic time chamber" thing is true, and that's how Buu was able to break out. Maybe having 4 people inside "weakened" the dimension enough for Buu to be able to break it
22:57 Vegeta out here cooking up the most stupid plans ever
Goku's issue with the Spirit Bomb isn't that Kid Buu was too strong, but it's also not about being able to detonate it. It's that Goku didn't have the strength to push the attack himself. As soon as he was healed, he became strong enough to push the Spirit Bomb.
Kid Buu's pushing was too strong compared to Goku's pushing, to the point where Kid Buu could even push the Spirit Bomb, an attack designed to vanquish evil. It's kinda like a beam clash in a way.
future Goku wasn't able to keep his body bc he didn't die in battle
In a bonus chapter of the dragon ball super manga future Goku is shown in the afterlife with his body
@@robertcobb3634 yeah that was just to explain things
Kid buu definitely pushed the genki dama back. That’s why goku needed to be full strength plus SSJ. Kid buu was too powerful.
That dende thing was a plot hole he put himself into, all he had to say was dende used up all of his power as well to the bomb and couldn't heal anyone just like whoever had no teleport energy
Can you talk about every arcs plot holes in all of dragon ball: original, GT and Super? Like make it a series?
MikEEE, great videos, next to Big D Geekdom and Scholar, you're my fav DB YT content creator