3D Printing CERAMICS with 3DCeram
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2022
- My chat with @3DCeramSINTO at @Formnext was FANTASTIC. I learned what it takes to 3d print CERAMICS!
3DCeram ▶ 3dceram.com
#3dprinting #additivemanufacturing #formnext2022
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This is definitely mt favorite 3D printing channel, every time I feel burnt out regarding work or 3D printing your videos make me wanna print the world!! 😂
Formdex was incredible this year based on the videos posted on this channel. Joel, you do an outstanding job of finding interesting content with good interviews that are informative but not boring.
Notice the Voron logo on the LDO extruder motor!
It's very impressive to witness how 3D printing is evolving. It will definitely be the future. Amazing channel, good job!
It will be part of the future, not *the* future
Spacecraft will print themselves in space instead of all this folding to fit in the launch vehicle
Guns will eventually be completely legal everywhere because, when it comes to weapons, anything so easily obtained *should* just be legal - banning and licencing only has the effect that law-abiding people have to self-handicap in relation to bad guys.
@@smorrow hahaha that's cute. They'll just ban printers 🤷♂️
@@jamesderiter4370 I expect some nanny state to try it, yeah. Not sure how that's supposed to work though when most printers are open-source, and normal/non-gun people in 3D printing strongly value open-source (too), and filament isn't hard to make either, and also there are printers like Hangprinter (donate to its gofundme, btw) you can make with a shopping cart that doesn't look anything like you're building a printer. If there isn't a printer you can build entirely from scratch, there will be when printers are banned and it becomes the important thing to work on (as has already happened with guns and airguns).
I can’t believe you are still posting FormNext content. You planned that out well. Hats off to you. I blew all my material within 3 days lol
These formnext videos are fantastic! This kind of coverage is what moves this hobby forward and keeps it interesting. These industrial applications will are all one day closer to being available in our homes. Now that's something to look forward to!
EXCELLENT interview: Joel brings an ideal mix of knowledge, expertise, and excitement to this conversation. Likewise, Sid did a great job of explaining his product, and what sets it apart from typical additive systems. Between them, they were able to transmit a *huge amount of highly nuanced technical data*, at a perfect conversational pace. Well done!
cool tech, its also amazing to see the impart of opensource projects on industry; reprap and a voron branded ldo motor :)
Wow. So clear. A knowledgeable and personable sales engineer is a wonderful, wonderful asset for any company and their customers.
Super interesting! Would definitely like to hear more on this in the future.
One of your most interesting vidéo from Formnext, thanks!
Amazing machine. Btw it was good to see you there Joel :)
Love that German accent for learning about anything technical
Absolutely.
6:49 - Noise. I still couldn't see the prints as anything other than plastic - they look soooo familiar, until I heard this noise!
This opens up some really cool parts that can be made now and made much cheaper now.
Watching that intro will never get old 👍
Pretty wild.
What... No high five at the end??? Haha. Really interesting technology! Thanks for sharing
I've said this before but this technology is truly the beginning of democratising manufacturing, ceramics and metal parts will make replacment parts for devices available at a local level, this can even reduce the CO2 foot print as it removes the need to ship parts...
That is only partially true, and even if they managed to get it down to a reasonable size and reduced complexity, at that point you are coming very close to it becoming "hand made" or custom style, just done with more complex and easily breakable or malfunctioning tools. Please look at ALL the connected parameters before declaring instant "utopia" as it is never as easy as it sounds.
Now this is interesting.
Great
That was cool! Now I'm dying to know what "robocasting" is. I'm going to go look at their website. Thanks for the video Joel! High-5!
stay tunned on youtube th-cam.com/channels/VgioWaZrVicebfNEoW6oRQ.html
Really fascinating how 3D printing is evolving and what can be printed today.
What can be printed tomorrow?
so much, most of the limits can be crossed!
I feel like we are still in the early stages of a technology that will change the world. The internet took a few decades from the late 1960s to get to the mid-90s, and then to the boom of the 2000s.
3D has now been around since the 1980s, to the boom in the late 2010s, and the technology is just now hitting the extreme development stages into it's real potential. It will change the world.
The next technology to do this will be AI, which has been slower to develop over the decades.
Cool outro video, very nice. Is that 3d smoke or you do a cool setup?
Nice
So Did i get this right, you can only print symmetric parts?
is there a filament that works with regular printers that makes the part and u put it in the oven and u get a metal part?
Yes there is.
Interesting, we use AlN parts occasionally, but would want to job shop the part out with a company that had the printer to see how it goes.
Kind of sounded like the guy didn't washy to divulge too much 😂
"reliable for short and long prints"
well i would hope so... thats the difference between something working and not working lol
Make some fancy lithophanes!!!
It's a significant commitment to set up the full process (printing, debinding, and sintering). Are there any US-based service bureaus with these printers?
I'd like to know what the minimum coefficient of thermal expansion that can be achieved for final alumina parts is. Conventional alumina parts can achieve
I get the sense a basic setup, like done with The Virtual Foundry, could be done for under $1,000, most of which is for the programmable kiln (this doesn't include the 3D printer that most nerds salivating over this presumably already have). I don't know if such an at-home process would produce particularly good parts. I don't know if any companies do this, but I'd imagine probably so - would seem like a very lucrative business. As for the coefficient of thermal expansion, I wouldn't expect that to depend upon porosity from what I understand about it - it's a material rather than structural property.
@@quillmaurer6563 yes, a basic setup can be used. The debinding needs to be vented, so there are details like that that should be paid attention to. I'm not sure how porosity impacts CTE. I feel I should know, given that I have to pay a lot of attention to CTE in my area of work.
@@JonS To give an idea, it's supposed to be around 95% dense once sintered and can achieve higher density through CVI/CVD.
Fascinating. Really curious how they do the sintering, since he mentioned lasers weren't an option. It can't just be tossing it in a kiln ir something like that.
This is the same for any "green" ceramics. They first go through a debinding stage that burns off the organic binders. Then they are heated to the point the material fused. And yes, it uses a kiln.
Just saw a voron logo on a stepper
I wonder if the tech could be used to print ceramic water filters?
I would say by accident, yes. Consistently, no. At least to my knowledge of the ceramic water filters on the market (much smaller porosity)
th-cam.com/video/_nTbpSrgoRI/w-d-xo.html
So it's just a different extruder? why an entire printer?
It's probably a belt extruder?
How do you remove the bonding metrix after it's done printing?
I imagine you would bake it in a ceramic kiln or something to that effect.
I've been told some are water soluble... will see soon enough. Otherwise high temp kilns.
I would have loved to have more informations about the binder they use in their filament. I don't know any plastic that melt at 160°c except maybe PCL but 160/170 seem a bit high for PCL. Anyone have an idea?
PLA can come out that low, especially at these low speeds. Most wood PLA is printed at 170.
There's a wax filament for investment casting. Edit: But he does say at 3:19 they use a plastic
Honey, i shrunk the 3D Print
This is a really interesting FFF Material. I do wonder if we could put their ceramic materials on regular printers. as I didnt see anything out of the ordinary when it comes to that.
Just a guess from my experience with them, from 3DCeram sales reps, no, from their technicians, yes. The kicker is the price per kilo being around $1-2k.
Getting the brittle material off the print bed in one piece may be tricky. And post print processing will take a kiln that most of us don't have.
Getting the brittle material off the print bed in one piece may be tricky. And post print processing will take a kiln that most of us don't have.
hanelyp1 has the right answer - the M.A.T. has been developed to print ceramic and you might know that one of the main issues with FFF is the loading of the filament into the extruder. This issue is fixed with the M.A.T. and this is not this only one...
Could you take off your shadow ?🙂 it is quite a challenge to 3D print SiC with any FFF machine...
Hmm I wonder if parts you print with this can't have irregular shapes, like most the parts he shows are either symmetrical or like a sketch you rotate around the Z axis. I wonder if they otherwise shring "wrong".
Uniform wall thickness is critical to this sintering process. Asymmetric part shapes are not an issue.
Maybe we can 3d print vibranium in the future
So I can print dinner plates and forks? Neato
im trying to find a good source for a ceramic resin i can use on my elegoo saturn 8k. i just clicked the link in the description and it sends you to a website that sends you to a distro website that you need to put in all your contact info and company name before they will get back to you. can anyone provide me with a reliable source for this resin that doesnt require me to have a company name before they will consider selling to me?
You can try Tethon, still isn't cheap, whether it's buying their premade slurries or making your own. Sintering would be interesting at the home/hobbyist level.
Why do I think @integza is basically looking like the Fry just take my money meme?
Where can I buy this filament?
Contact them, but it's around $1-2000 per kilo...
Did you talk about the De- binding or sintering process in more detail. Special equipment or chemicals needed?
I would like to know more about the types of materials that lend themselves to this type of printing. Is it mainly because of optical properties? Is this a fast prototyping play or are there industrial applications in mind
How soon can you get this to @integza so he can build a rocket nozzle that won't blow up, melt, or leak like sieve?
Not yet. But in the next year we may visit 3DCeram to talk more about the entire workflow.
It is actually possible to do right now.... but it requires proper knowledge of material science, ability to create and/or heavily modify their own software and tooling, and exactly how the given process functions... I could conceivably do something similar to using a "pancake batter" printer with several key modifications... but knowing which ones, what materials, and how to apply them is where it gets tricky. @integza is free to contact me, but I am not about to share it on the open internet where people can get hurt if they don't thoroughly understand ALL the things I mentioned above.
Maybe we can see 3D-printed ceramic engine parts in future cars.
Not to mention metal components!
They already use that technology in the vehicle industry, one example is the turbo housing for the koenigsegg sportscar
So from reading the comments I get an idea of price per kg. Now I just wonder what the price of the machines are, anyone that knows the ballpark numbers?
That whole "careful extrusion" thing sounds to me like they really try to upsell their (really cool) materials with their own line of printers. I bet any good printer with probably mintemp lowered will do the job just as well. I get it that companies don´t like to fiddle with parameters thogh ...
*3D print 2A has entered the chat*
Plates? Plates?
size, unless you wanna be high speed low drag and only cover your heart and part of your lungs
What's really crazy about this stuff is that, unlike DMLS that requires $50k at the very minimum machines, processes like this can be done on a home 3D printer (I'm guessing even my home-built from $200 kit machine could do it, maybe with a few upgrades) and burned-out/sintered in a kiln used for firing pottery. I don't know if this company would sell their products/process to the general public, but The Virtual Foundry already is. Probably won't get quite as good results as professional-grade everything, but this is certainly becoming within reach of the home hobbyist.
Many of these things have always been within the reach of a home hobbyist with the proper knowledge of material science, ability to create their own software and tooling, and how a process functions... One issue is the costs involved with creating a functioning tool unless one has a functional machine shop and all the knowledge to produce the parts... then there are the materials themselves... these are not the type of thing you can go out and buy off the shelf, these are custom filaments and far more delicate then the standard stuff we all know and use.... the typical FDM printer would chew up these materials if you could get them and require software editing at the firmware level to bypass the normal 3D printer operations.
I wonder how supports work with this material.
On the FFF style printing you can print standard supports if needed but you need to remove them prior to any sintering.
Very interesting - how soon will this get into consumer hands, I wonder? Better start studying material engineering! Getting closer to more inclusive home manufacturing, or at least franchised Maker Spaces that can host the higher end machines for community use. Fascinating.
That's a normal printer using special filament. He said it was different the whole time but didn't show one different non-software thing. Sounds like marketing bs to sell you a whole new (probably highly marked up $$$) printer to do what you could of done with the one you have, their filament, and MAYBE a new "gentle" extruder (probably like a flex extruder that doesn't press as hard to damage the fragile filament).
Nice to see this technique back in the mainstream news after a few years. Though my eyes are definitely going to fall out if he keeps going on like it requires a special printer or like it's anything new. This is literally the primary reason why companies released complex filaments like copperfill in the first place. *Gets to the end* Oh, his machine can also mill and rotocast... Novelty but still not unique these days. Plenty of multi-tool systems out there to add mills to a machine, and probably any machine with a raised bed on three independent lead screws and can do basic rotocasting.
You'll note that he didn't say much if anything about what kind of TPP they used, so debinding could mean anything from water to acid to heat. Sintering means you'll need a high temperature kiln with a programmable oven to get to the right firing schedules, and probably a need for vacuum evacuation and a neutral gas (though not necessarily a noble one). The bed and hot end heater control systems in any FDM printer already do controlled heating schedules. I want to see someone come out with a consumer hobbyist grade sintering oven running off of similar cheapo boards that can fit prints larger than your fist and doesn't cost as much as an ER visit or a d**n surgery.
1800 degrees Celsius isn't cheap, thermocouples alone at $1500ish.
@@ScuffedEngineer With a ten seconds search on Google, I'm seeing three Type Bs rated around 1800° and a "very high temp exotic" rated around 2200° each for under $400 apiece. It's important to note that most sintering is done below 1000° and that 1500° is considered the recommended upper range limit for "very high temperature sintering". A type K can get you up to around 1300° in some cases and usually cost less than $50, though you'll want to shop around because some manufacturers make them with considerably lower range and sensitivity.
They always skim over the debinding and sintering stages...
De-binding in a solvent then kiln sintering based on the materials. Ceramic sintering is at temperatures near 1700 C.
@@daviddiegel1239 what type of kiln?
@@_Junkers There is a basic tabletop kiln for the de-binding phase up to about 300 C. The sintering kiln depends on the material you are using. Metals are more in the 1000 C range, but ceramics, especially SiC, can be up to 1800 C to properly sinter it. That type of industrial kiln can cost up to $55,000 for a tabletop size.
There is many parts used in the semiconductor industry that are going to drop in price because of this.
As a German myself I usually can not listen to Germans speaking English with this horrible accent but this dude is an exception well done
Interesting that he has the 'th' sound in English down, but doesn't use it in words already known from L1 ('thermoplastic')
One good opportunity in India would you like to explore
Sure, bring me to India!
Autsj, not actually knowing the 3D printing Nerd. :) I wonder if this MAT printer would be super useful though, apparently it has to print veeeery slow?
For industrial applications I can see it happening, actual machining time would be longer, if the part can even be machined at all.
@@robertsmith4681 I guess once the thermoplastic material is burned out and the ceramic is baked to it's final hardness
@@haydenc2742 All of that can be done in one pass of a proper oven. Not so much burn off but sublimate out the binder, and then raise the temp to bake the part to whatever ceramic needs to bake at.
@@robertsmith4681 In a nice oven you could do it at once, but cheaply, debind in gas at low temp to burnout the binder and then sinter at elevated temps (2 separate ovens). These filaments are supposed to debind in a solvent, will be interesting to use. Ultrasonic mills can machine green parts and you can always abrade away material (though slowly).
Advanced Shrinky Dinks
I think I have experienced non-isotropic shrinkage.
Hey Joel, it would be nice if in these videos you told us a price range for the printer. I know it’s out of reach of hobbyists, but people are always asking me about printing metal and stuff. It would be nice to be able to tell them how much one of these cost, rather than saying “sure it can be done, if you’re NASA”
This is a more approachable price point. The entire system, with all 3 technologies, installed and with a variety of ceramic and metal materials on hand and ready to print would be under $60,000.
That is a very slow print in the background. Hmm...
You should change your channel name to "Useful Prints".
It's a German Turk
no one care about the price tag...can be usefull somehow (not really clear how) but with a price tag of 50k(donno the real price) for a printer with less than 20x20cm of building area this product its one of the thousends in the "useless" range...
~$60K
There's NOTHING special about that printer. These guys are definitely basing their product around people not knowing enough about printers/just having a complete ecosystem. The printer is a slightly better built ender 6 at best. Look at that bearing stack on the right bending over a few degrees and the ANCIENT hotend design. Joel go buy a spool of their filament, I'll bet you the price of that spool that it is totally printable with any normal printer.
Sorry but he was probably the worst managering director in the 3D printing world as he didn't know you....