Resins generally cure faster at higher temperatures even if it's advertised as curing at room temperature. This could have been the difference between the garage and inside the office curing. Try curing the resin at an elevated temp to get more consistent results.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel I mean the reality here is that you should use a resin print from the beginning, pointed downwards, with anti-aliasing enabled, which will already give you the smooth surface you want. Such a printer is about $300 - like the Mars. And btw, resin printers are also very sensitive to temperature.
Too hot though and the epoxy doesn't cure properly. Might lose out on cure hardness for cure speed or viscosity while pouring. May also end up not curing right at all and end up still sticky. Many variables to think about when it comes to resin/epoxy and what the end product needs. Generally the max cure temp for any resin should be used as much hotter than the 90-100 degree F will screw up the curing process in my experience. I messed up a resin desk top by curing at the top end of the range and it never fully hardened to be useful as a desk top as a fingernail would leave a dent easily and it scratched by rubbing a finger on it.
Smoothing 3D prints is something I have to do a ton of, we do work for the film industry making props and pieces of set decoration. XTC-3D has the worst of all worlds of properties for smoothing resins IMO, it's got a short pot life so you can't let it settle out and de-bubble, and it has a long cure time so you can't use a lot of thin layers. The UV resin is the right idea, but SLA resins can be finicky and cure way too slowly. Give "I can't believe it's not lacquer" by solarez a try, they make a brush on version and a spray on version that have differing viscosities. UV resin is great, you have all the time in the world to get the film just right, optionally flowing it out and popping bubbles with a heat gun or torch, then it cures rock-hard in about 5 minutes in direct sunlight. The other thing that works well is High-build primer from autobody paint suppliers. If you can, buy it loose in a 1qt can and apply it using an airbrush or HVLP gun, you get probably 10x as much solids per dollar compared to aerosol spray cans and can tune the viscosity. Autobody primers are nice because they tend to wet easily so later coatings stick more easily.
Whoops, didn't see your post before posting mine -- hehe I think I suggested similar things but more grumpily :-D High-fill primers are great for filling in layer lines and painting over, i've always paid out the nose for the artsy 'textured' spray paint version but I recently got a paint sprayer attachment for my little compressor so I may try your suggestion! thx!
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel You can throw epoxies in a vacuum chamber to de-gas prior to application. I do it for all of the types I use. And for application I would use a 'pour over, drip off' type approach rather than a brush on. With a brush you necessarily introduce microbubbles (even if you're insanely careful and exacting).
I can't recall the details, but some plastic prints can be smoothed by exposing them to solvent vapor (acetone, IIRC) that softens the surface and makes the parent material do the same surface tension trick. (Edit: a few links) th-cam.com/video/6xFUNFG-UKE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/NiG1jDEG0kA/w-d-xo.html These seem a lot easier than mixing up resins and trying to get even coatings.
Wow, this is a great video! We always love seeing people using our products! We also really appreciate how you took the time to explain the difference of a first and second surface mirror and how mirrors work. I saw you had a hard time with the resin. We think the ideas you had about curing and temperature are very wise and see some great comments here. We also wanted to point out that not all paint/resin products are compatible with silvering. Some have products within them that are great for the product itself but can actually tarnish the silver. We saw you mention that you weren't quite sure what is in each of the chemicals. We commented below but will add here, the Blue Silver Solution is a Silver Nitrate base. The Clear Silver Reducer is a Sodium Hydroxide/Ammonium Hydroxide base. Essentially the Reducer functions to balance the acidity of the solutions and pull the Silver out of Solution. That is why you want to keep them separate. Part of the issues you had/inconsistency of result could be with the spraying technique. The chemicals need to meet at the same rate and quantity on the piece to cause the right chemical reaction. Also, you may find Aluminum Foil to not be a great back drop. The Silvering solution will not develop properly over metal and splash back could contaminate your piece. Finally, we just wanted to note that in almost all applications you will need to apply a tinted top coat to protect the Silver from tarnishing. Telescope folks don't to maintain optimum optical quality but instead have to reapply the silver periodically. Once again, great video and thanks for trusting our products and your pieces!
I LOVE how politely you said his spraying was terrible! As a pro painter I can professional say his spray "technique" is the worst I've ever seen used in a professional capacity. (Which includes producing technical and 'how-to' video content)
@@Egg-vv8de I have honestly tried to search for his qualifications before and could never find them. When you say degree you mean an undergraduate diploma correct? PS: biochemist aren't chemist, they are biochemist... there is a difference.
And I don't dislike the kid. I watch his content all the time but the blatant disregard for safety is hugely disappointing. The lack of technical knowledge is ok and especially more so if he is trained in biochem not synthetic chemistry.
Yo Angus! I love the channel - I binged a huge backlog of your channel and Stefan’s channel a few years ago when I got more into printing and learned loads. It’s real weird now that my channel is getting wider impressions, I was kinda hoping one of you would make your way here through the benchy thumbnail… And yes because the surface is bare silver it should age over time. Some of my parts still look perfect, and some have actually yellowed slightly, which makes me think there’re still reactions with the resin, but I’m looking forward to the black patina. (Not for the mirrors, but for the button and the benchys!)
Would that silver layer be electrically conductive? If so, electroplating would increase layer thickness allowing mechanical polishing on a regular basis and reduce the matte issue. Would also allow you to sort out your 1M subscriber button.
This gives me a whole new appreciation of the sheer amount of effort required by astronomy hobbyists to grind their own parabolic mirrors for reflecting telescopes from glass disc "blanks" and then silvering them :) The DIY diffraction tests for the proper curvature of the surface identified deviations in the order of a few wavelengths of visible light... And then Tollens reagent! I was always warned never to leave a solution of the two parts mixed together unattended in case the unreasonably crabby and unstable Silver Azide might make an unwelcome appearance!
Yeah the advantage of the glass is that once you grind the perfect shape, you can etch and re-coat the front surface as many times as you want. this plastic method is quite a bit less robust. My dad ground some telescope mirrors in high school I think and I can't imagine the patience that took
The guy from Huygens Optics channel has a lot of videos on grinding mirrors and lenses. Not sure if he does a lot of parabolic mirrors, but there's a lot of information about making glass near atomically smooth on there.
@@DFPercush He tries to avoid aspherical surfaces, but he has a ton of admiration for those who do use them and sometimes makes videos about them, like the guy that makes an entire mini-telescope out of one solid piece of glass.
A couple of things from working with epoxy resin and fiberglass: - reducing with solvents is not recommended because it leaves voids when the solvent evaporates, which weakens the material. - mixing well is key. how long do you stir? - typical FRP epoxy has a waxy amine blush after curing, which you can wash off with soap and water. - there are specialty epoxies that are less viscous - expect full cure to take 12 hours. Instead of epoxy, perhaps it worth trying a can of spray urethane varnish. Varnishes are designed to shrink during curing and the stretching helps to form a smooth surface.
the trick to getting bubbles out of resin is actually to put them in a pressure chamber rather than a vacuum chamber. to squish down the bubbles until theyre imperceptibly small and then let the resin harden around them. either that or use a butane torch to pop them if theyre near the surface
Was going to comment this. Vacuum chambers *are* useful for getting bubbles out of your resin, but only if you do it *before* you pour. Any bubbles that make their way into your casting after you've poured can only be fixed with heat, a pressure chamber, or one-by-one with a needle.
I usually don't leave comments but this video reeeeeally deserves. You make chemistry and physics so much fun! I came for the mirroring process and not only left with the knowledge but also left with some good laughs! I love how you embrace failures, learn and move on.
The best advice that I ever got for epoxy, is that you need to mix it until you're sick of mixing it... then mix it for another 2 minutes. You have 2 parts that need to mix thoroughly and if they don't, you're going to get uncured resin throughout your batch. In turn, if you put excess of either part in the mixture - you're leaving uncurable resin in the mix and you'll never get a solid surface, so it's absolutely critical that you get the ratios correct. *I'd also add that you'd probably be better off just using a polyurethane, like Varathane, to build the smooth surface you're looking for. It's easy to use - it'll cure like a rock - it'll sand down to a shine.
Silver-nitrate was used in black and white photography. As such the solution form is photo sensitive. You can get a mirror coat on glass by applying intense light, as a cameras' aperture to film, an it will stick. _I amused myself as a kid by coating bottles filled with the stuff by adding stencils, then setting under a lamp._
So, as someone who does a bit of molding and casting, should you ever do this again, you don't put urethane resin in a vaccuum chamber to remove bubbles as you found out. Instead, you put it in a pressure chamber. This compresses the bubbles, makes them very small, and effectively removes them. Of course, this means your mold needs to have no air bubbles in it, so you'll need a vaccuum chamber for the silicone mold, and apparently, you'll also want to let that cure in your pressure chamber, so it's used to being under pressure, for best results.
another way to smooth prints that I find super easy is to sand first, then put a layer of spray-putty on them, then sand again - instant fill and works from a spray can (way, way easier than resin)
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I recently tried spray putty without sanding (I hate sanding PLA) and it resulted in, at least locally, perfect results and hidden layer lines.
Sticky resin is also usually caused from moisture in the air. When a resin says cured in xx amount of hours, means for the chemical reaction to complete and become a solid, a fullcure can take upto 2 weeks.
Love the video. You were so close to inventing "Spin casting"! The centrifugal forces work in just the right way as to create a perfect parabolic mirror. Make a flat-bottomed circular vat. Pour the resin and spin it while its perfectly level. The result should be a prefect parabolic mirror. Maybe you can give it a try.
spin casting was a possibility, as was high-rpm spin-coating to get as much resin off the mirror as possible. I think the best answer without switching resins may be spin-coating and then letting it rest with a hole in the center to drain excess through. (although based on other comments, I think I'm switching resins)
This does work, there was an article in Scientific American about 30 years ago that included this- they used resin to create large (2m) parabolic mirors. You can also buy first surface mirrors at a reasonable price from Cloudray or other laser suppliers, they are common in CO2 lasers.
Spin casting is the way many telescope mirror labs rough out their blanks. But in glass, not resin. ;-) I believe University of Arizona has the largest spin casting oven. And they keep it under the football stadium.
Interesting to see you break this process down the way you did. I tried the sprayable "chrome" finish several years back. I even spent the money on a specialized spray unit that managed all the silvering steps you described. (Funny that you accomplished the chrome finish with a few $1 spray bottles). I spent a lot of time and money trying to perfect the process and get reliable results to no avail. It just seemed to be too finicky of a process. Surface prep was done by sanding down to 1500 grit, then a base layer was applied with an HVLP gun(that in itself was a trick, as any texture from spraying was immediately transferred to the final finish). The base layer could not be sanded or handled in any way once applied. Even the most minute errors meant the whole process had to start over. I did have some successes with it, but as a business I just did not find it reliable enough to offer as an additional service at my shop. I finally gave up on it after many months of trial and error. I still have the machine but haven't put it to use for several years. Good on you for working out the process and seeing it through. Watching your video, it looks like you had a similar percentage of failure and success with your process. The next trick once you create the silver layer is applying a clear coat to preserve the finish as the silver will tarnish/deteriorate fairly quickly. That's a whole different effort all by itself.
i'd take temperature and relative humidity measurements to further hone in on what makes the best mirror. the main difference between inside and garage will probably temp and humidity
I agree, it's seems that you're one of the only people here who has mentioned relative humidity which plays a big role in evaporation rates. The higher the relative humidity is the lower the evaporation rate will be and the slower the curing rate will be.
"Plan A always goes up in flames" is why I just subbed. I didn't need to watch the rest of the video for it, congrats on getting my total devotion to you, and your channel.
Watching this in December: Yeah, you're about 2 play buttons behind now. Dude your channel is amazing and I'm so glad it found its way onto my feed cause I'm hooked. I love your manner, your presentation is awesome, you're excellent at explaining complex topics in very clear ways. You're fast becoming one of my top favorite channels.
This is FANTASTIC. I've been researching steps on how to do a 3d printed mirror for a couple of years. I hadn't considered resin though. The approach that I've been looking at is to first paint the mirror base with a graphite paint to give it a conductive surface, then to use nickel electroplating to provide a surface that the reflective material can adhere to. I saw a video about 2 years ago where some guys were demonstrating the silvering fluid you used. Ultimately its a bit of a tradeoff when it comes to how you get a reflective surface. Aluminizing the surface would guarantee that the surface doesn't degrade over time due to atmospheric exposure. With the silvering process, it will gradually tarnish over maybe a year or so. Silvering was the traditional process for making telescope mirrors in the 18th/19th centuries, but the surfaces decayed fairly quickly and the mirrors had to be resurfaced often. However, there are some semi to major serious outgassing issues with using plastics in the kind of vacuum chambers used with electroplating. Most commercial operations wouldn't support using a 3d printed plastic part. Building your own deposition chamber is possible but can be a huge project on its own. A possible solution to the silvering process would be to use a clearcoat layer over it. But that leads into one of the biggest overall issues: smoothing. For an optical grade mirror, it needs to be extremely smooth. This is easy with glass, just grind away at it until you get the correct figure. For our 3d printed mirrors, that's not as much of an option due to the very thin layers of materials we're working with. I had been thinking it might be possible to just have a really super thick nickel plating layer and then do the final figuring and surface polishing on that before silvering. I have an idea for you. Perhaps having an air current of argon over the mirror surface while you're spraying could help alleviate some of the issues with the silver forming into oxides instead of adhering to the surface. Similar to how welding uses argon to prevent the oxygen-rich regular atmosphere to interfere with the weld. I've very excited about what you've done so far. Please don't let this be a one-off project. I want to keep seeing how you're approaching this project!
What was the precise silvering kit you used? The MSDS would give a good indication of whatever you used being based on the Tollens reagent. I would be very suspicious of using those types of reagents on plastic resins though: the alkali would definitely be able to attack most common epoxy resins enough to ruin a surface finish. The amateur astronomy literature has quite a few useful recipes for making your own silvering solutions if you would like yet more experiments to run. The "Amateur Astronomer's Handbook" by John Benson Sidgwick and R. C. Gamble has quite a detailed procedure for preparing the surface and making the solutions. Keep up the great work!
Alot of these kits are chinese kits off ebay, there is no MSDS. The professional autobody kits tend to give the bare minimum in the terms of chemicals listings. but yes most are infact based on the tollens reagent reaction. Same process is used for typical retail mirror production.
Hi there! It looks like he used products from our company-Angel Gilding-and you are right-the SDS will show the majority chemical component. He is right in guessing it was silver nitrate. That is the Silver Solution. The Silver Reducer is a Sodium Hydroxide Solution. We also suspect you are onto something with the resin. We are going to post a comment about that part. There are certainly recipes out there for your own silvering solution (this basic chemistry was developed well over a hundred years ago). We always caution folks though to be careful-it can be a dangerous process and can even create fulminating silver if done improperly.
@@AngelGildingcom I take it you mean fulminating as in the nitride Ag3N as opposed to a fulminate? My first thought was the latter, as I could see someone cleaning a surface with an alcohol and having residue react with the nitrate, but I suppose if ammonia were used in a solution you could indeed get the former. Either way, I'd agree notion that it should be avoided. Certainly good to keep in mind, thanks for that tip.
I tried once CA glue instead of epoxy resin. Remembered that I used that back in the day to finish turned pens. It has lower viscosity so it flows better, cures really hard and is very consistent. Microbubbles mixed with epoxy for part can help with smoothing too.
So happy I subbed, this video was made for me. I've been looking for a good way to make miniature pieces with a mirror finish and now I have a lot of info to use.
The recommendation for miniatures seems to be Molotow Liquid Chrome, and there's a video review where Mechhead talks about what coatings are compatible.
The hardener that is not used in the reaction of the resin will rise to the surface. It is sticky and gums up sandpaper rather quickly. Temperature and humidity also have a lot to do with the curing of resins. This was a big pain in the rump for us in the sailplane business back in the late 70's. The solution was to put a layer of nylon fabric on top of the last layer of fiber glass. As the resin cured the excess hardener would rise up above the nylon layer. After everything was cured we simply ripped the nylon layer off along with the unused hardener. It saved us untold hours of sanding. You have a nice project. I thought I would let you know that you aren't the only one who has had this problem. It goes back before you were born. Lol
The 2^15 play button was ORIGINALLY going to be a computational project and I watched your fantastic Conway video while researching. That project got put on hold when I realized I could do a lot more with it but it was going to take a few extra weeks of python
came cause i thought you were spencer from icarly stayed to learn things i didnt know i wanted to know -me months ago keep up the good work, love your unique style and choice of projects. congratulations and onward to 2^16 subs!!!!
Thanks this was amazing! Happy I subscribed the minute I saw one of your videos. Happy to see it paid of! Keep it up! High Five from Dominican Republic!!
3:20 why not use ABS and do acetone vapour bath. gives a crazy good finish, tho it can also be easy to mess up. just need a 3dprinter with an enclosure. the other option for non ABS plastic is sand (super super fine also costly) recasting which does smooth out the layer lines a bit. could maybe be enough here unless the mirrors need to have a low variance in surface height
You put the tub of mixed resin into the vacuum chamber before application, not the piece after application. You might (should) also use a heat gun/blow torch to pop surface bubbles after application. Other tips...NEVER pour from the container you mixed the resin in, there will ALWAYS be unmixed resin around the edges of the container. Pour into a separate container first, mix again, then apply. Wait at least 3 days before doing anything chemical with resin, or anything at all really. That's 3 days in a warm room too, not a cold garage. There are literally gazillions of artists and makers on youtube who use resin on a daily basis, you might want to check out some of their how-to vids. Good luck.
So a mirrors reflection of light involves electrons being moved by photons, in the process absorbing and then emitting photons ( ~1:40). Since we can't measure the one way speed of light, does this mean that any measurement of the speed of light we make, will be slightly longer than the theoretical calculation due to the time it takes for the photon to be absorbed and emitted? Or, does the scale at which that movement happens, and the speed that light travels, mean that the time the process takes is less than our ability to discern?
Comments about elevated temperatures are spot on, typically epoxy resins tend to cure smoother, faster, and clearer when heated. Think somewhere around 125-150F, or ~52-66C. It helps to "thin" the resin a bit, and allows bubbles to reach the surface better for release, and allows the resin to fill smaller crevices better. Another thing I would like to note is that to make a usable optical lens, you will likely have to do a good amount of surface finishing, as the silver coating will be quite thin, and finishing will likely be more difficult after silvering than finishing the resin. Personally, I prefer to give resin 4-6 hours at an elevated temperature, then the remainder of 72 total hours to finish curing completely. It should also be noted that during cure, dust intrustion and bug intrusion should be prevented as much as possible (bugs love paint and anything you need a nice surface on). I would love to see the end result once you get a finished product ready for testing. I'm not typically one for subscribing, but if I were, this would be the first channel I would click.
Look up Factorial Experimental methods. I commend you for doing a "grid search" as you call it and not OFAT. A half fold factorial could help in the future. I also use a lot of resin/epoxies for strain ga(u)ge / load cell stuff. Temperature is a huge factor as you found. Cures tend to be exponential on time until they stop (too cold) or degrade, burn, or do weird stuff at too hot. It could need a huge amount of time in the garage OR it could be below the reaction temp needed to cure the epoxy.
So we did a survey on 3d printed surfaces requested and the most requested was brushed metal look. Being that you pulled off mirror chrome look. Do you think brushed metal is doable using some of those skillsets?
1st surface mirrors can be really expensive if you have to buy them. One common place I've found them is inside of old projection TV's. I have a couple that are nearly 1meter^2 I salvaged from old TVs. There's huge fresnel lenses in there too that are a lot of fun to experiment with! =D
Please stay on this topic and make an open source version of that mirror solution. I tried to find a free solution to mirror-effekt my 3D prints, but all i found were industrial solutions for above 500€. So please help mirroring our future and stay on that topic. I will support you at any moment as best i can
I would recommend a stand for your table saw and also standing to the side. Kickback can be really dangerous (at least you had your blade guard/riving knife on) and in the squat position you really do risk accidentally falling into the saw when it’s operating. Just my two cents but table saws are easily the most dangerous piece of equipment in the standard US house, and its highly recommended to treat them with the respect. Other than that, a very cool project man, stay safe, stay healthy and thanks for the great content.
Yeah table saws absolutely terrify me and this is the first one I've owned so I'm trying to catch up on best practices quickly - another comment had some good suggestions about when to use the guide and when to use the miter to avoid kickback, but since I'm typically just doing ply, sometimes I don't have a great way to use either (if the plywood is larger than the table) do you have any tips other than "go in a straight line"? obviously I don't expect high quality cuts when "freehanding" like that, but I'd like to be able to do it without actually freeing my hand from my arm.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel So if you're trying to rip larger sheets of plywood, my go to would be to use a circular saw unless if you had a large outfeed table set up for your table saw. To get an accurate cut, I like to clamp a guide to the plywood, and then put my circular saw up against it/(or in it in my case) to do the rip. There are a ton of how to videos to make a good guide (I followed the plans from a video called "Super Simple Saw Track" by One Minute Workbench on YT and it works fantastic for what I need it to do). You can also purchase them, Kreig makes decent ones. I'm terrible at free handing myself. Once it is smaller and can be supported by your table saw, that's when I would use it. If you do not have space in your workshop for an outfeed table (it's a table you can push the ripped plywood onto after a cut, highly highly recommend one if you have the space), you can use a roller stand to support the piece. Kickback ultimately is caused by the wood binding in the back of the blade which is spinning towards you, the blade catches it, and then flings it forwards or upwards. It does it with enough force and quick enough that you really don't have time to react, and since you're the softest thing in the shop, can impale you, or also draw your hand into the blade before you can react. Your riving knife (piece that sticks out on the back of the blade) is there to prevent the wood from binding in that way. If you are trying to make an angled cut using your miter gauge, youre not going to want to use the fence, the wood might get pinched between the blade and the fence hence the kickback. If doing a rip cut, it's very important to make sure that your blade is parallel to the fence or it also might cause that pinching action. The thing though that started the comment though was your position of how you were pushing the wood for the rip. You want to be as stable as possible, get a stand, they are under $200 and are able to be folded and stored away or make one so you are able able to push the wood through while standing up comfortably. In that squat position it it's way way way too easy to fall forward and that's your face in a sharp blade that can easily kill you. My ultimate recommendation though, watch some safety and how to use a table saw videos on YT, they're really dangerous and it just takes a single fuck up or accident and then you might be missing some digits or worse. Stumpy Nubs is a woodworker on YT that I respect and would recommend his safety videos for any woodworking equipment. Sorry, a bit of a long response. Regardless, stay safe and healthy and just remember we're the softest meatbag in the shop.
Yeah, I've worked with a few industrial machines spinning at tens of thousands of RPMs and they never unnerved me as much as when I used a table saw. Every time I go near one my mind races with all the possibilities of accidentally tripping into it or slipping my hand. There is something about such a large blade so exposed that is terrifying.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel kickback can of course happen when you twist the plywood going in. But by far the biggest risk for kickback is with lumber, when ripping it. If the boards have a warp or twist, cutting it can release internal stresses and cause the cut to close back in on itself. That's why a riving knife is required on all european saws, I believe. It keeps the wood from closing back on itself. Here in the US sometimes those are built into the cover, so you may have to take them off before cutting ply, but make sure to put it back on when ripping boards.
You could throw it under a heat lamp to cure the resin faster. You can actually cure it in a couple hours if you get the surface temp to over 100f. They say the resin is "cured" when it is sufficiently hard and can't be bonded to with a fresh coat without sanding which is not the same thing as a full cure. The full cure time depends on the hardener and temperature but it can take days or even months if it's too cold since at about 60f the reaction stops. When coating things in epoxy (or other paints/resins) I have a few 1000w quartz heat lamps that cure them in only a few hours but that's for large projects. You can get a infrared bulb at the hardware store for like 10 bucks that would do small parts just fine. Also denatured alchohol is better for thinning the epoxy and I find you only need to add 1% to drastically cut the viscosity to where it doesn't hold bubbles in the mixture anymore. If you add too much it will develop fish eyes however. This is speaking of epoxy in general and it can vary radically depending on the manufacturer & exact formulation which can vary depending on the batch. Not all variables can be known and accounted for but you can reduce the scattering significantly and achieve more consistent results by isolating some of the bigger variables.
check out the Huygens optics video about mini telescope mirrors for satellites! if you can print suitably clear resin that'd be awesome. nowhere near diffraction-limited optics, but still pretty cool
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel yeah I saw that one. Maybe I'll give it a go. I am thinking about picking up an airbrush off Craigslist to try "silvering" much cheaper than the kit you used. It won't be nearly as good, but it's a lower cost way to at least get a proof of concept going. I found some videos of Alclad polished aluminum paint that looks like it may work
If you’re doing a second-surface like that I believe it’s significantly more forgiving. The specularness is set my the interface roughness rather than the interface AND the quality of the coating
Fancy! I had a very similar problem lately when making curved mirrors for picoprojectors and did try to avoid coating. In the end I settled on thermoforming pre-coated polystyrene sheets to get the same surface tension smoothing effect but could avoid any additional coating afterwards. That did work out quite well for getting okay-is mirrors for prototyping. I summarized all necessary steps for simulating, printing jigs and thermoforming in a video. Thanks for the video!
Try double or triple mixing of the Resin! After mixing pour it into a new beaker and use a new stick for mixing. Even small quantity of non proper mixed resin from the container wall or the stick can ruin the resin.
Hmmm wall stick is a great point - I made some waffles the other day and got a bite of dry mix powder at one point that was not very appetizing. I think it detached from the bowl late…
Ok the way you did the chemical formulas when talking about the compounds in the commercial film, was brilliant. If this was shown to me when I was learning it man would I have an eye opener.
And now we know scientists abide the rules of nature, but don't have to abide some other rules to obtain sime results they want. And it's nice XD (random silver button pun) Great work man, love it!
Would this work for re-coating a headlight reflector? Would it last out in the elements? Maybe coating it with something transparent and uv resistant would help?
I won’t lie. I have absolutely NO idea what they’re talking about. Stuff like this goes WAY over my head. I may understand it to a certain extent, but I couldn’t possibly explain it to anyone else
Most mirrors are glass coated with metal. Light travels through the glass strikes the metal and "bounces" back through the glass. The glass changes the image. His mirrors have metal on top of plastic. No glass layer to distort the image. The light strikes the metal and "bounces" back. It's called a "first surface mirror" because the metal is on top. I hope I've said this correctly.
Brings back memories. I did stuff like this when I built an 8 inch Newtonian telescope 50 years ago. Mine was first surface. Had to be replaced at least once a year. You could get a quartz coating, but I was too poor to do that. Getting a parabolic surface was the hardest part.
I worked in a plastic bottle factory. Many of the bottles we made were also printed on. The way we got the ink to stick to the plastic was by quickly passing it through a propane torch.
Because resin is insoluble in water, will the resin be evenly distributed due to surface tension if you immerse a resin-coated object in water? Will it go more smoothly if you place a UV lamp around the water tank at this time?
Lots of interesting insight towards getting a smooth surface with epoxy resin. Though as many had pointed out, the thick epoxy will hide details and edges. The way to go is through a resin printer, and with a smoother surface you can opt to use something like spray on polyurethane to get a smooth surface through multiple thin coats.
I'm glad that I'm finally coming across more videos i can learn from felt like I learned everything I could from YT videos for some time very cool mirrors creation process never seen it done with spraying solutions
Not exactly clear on the product you used or how you make this. if you made the solution can you link to the video that shows how two make this. Thanks!
Would it be possible to continue to coat the parts to make the silver layer thick enough to buff it to make it even smoother and shinier? Or is it not worth it?
As a kid I was always fascinated by those robot/cars toys with cool paint job and shinny chrome parts, you can't imagine my sadness and disappointment once the cheap black plastic shows up, now I know how they tricked me countless times, thank you.
I don't know if you had problems with this one but usually a pressure pot will make the air pockets in resin casts smaller, I would assume it works the same for a thick application. Resin pours also work best if you quickly run a blowtorch over it to pop any surface bubbles if you are having any issues. As for curing, high heat on poly is almost always the way. If you have the option between cool and dry and hot and humid, hot and humid would be the better choice. Heat matters much more than humidity.
What do you do with the spent silvering solutions? If you let them set, & if they have silver & ammonia in them, they can form silver AZIDE. This is an EXPLOSIVE which can SPONTANEOUSLY go off! IMMEDIATELY after you are done with the solutions, ass salt water to them. This forms silver chloride, a nonhazardous gray powder. This can be recycled back to silver metal with lye (first, gray turns black) & then add dextrose (slowly) back to silver powder (silvery-black). You should have the salt solution premade & ready. All this silvering stuff can be done much better with the 2 solutions poured into tray with item to be silvered & rocked. No mist! Better quality coat! Pour it off into waste container (containing the salt) when done. This is how telescope mirrors were made by amateurs. There are 2 chemistry's available. One is fast, for opaque coatings such as you have made. The other is slow, permitting making "half-silvered" mirrors by timing the reaction.
@@jemandanderes7075 Don't know what the chemistry is. I suspect that the "activator" solution is a tin salt, but know nothing more (other than silvering solutions typically use silver nitrate, ammonia, caustic soda, & glucose or dextrose). I looked up waste treatment & they add powdered clay to the waste (don't know what that does).
Resin problems are usually due to incorrect mixing, incorrect measurement and insufficient cure time. Mix your resin gently in one container, then pour that into a second clean container to ensure no unmixed resin remains (it tends to cling to the sides). Then place that container into the vacuum chamber to de-gas. That resin is then ready to use. Resin can usually be accelerated with heat up to 60-70 degrees (Celcius), but check instructions as it depends on the resin. Mixing excess curing agent (Usually your 'part B') can give poor results because is can cause the resin to become too hot during the exotherm. Mixing excess resin (Usually the 'part A') can cause long cure times or even resin that remains uncured and tacky. Anyway, cool video!
This was very interesting. First video I've seen on your channel and it was quite cool. Just wanted to chime in a bit on the resin. The outside vs inside cure is likely do to temperature. All resins use a thermal reaction on some level to cure. The thicker the cast the more heat the quicker and generally harder the cure. For thin layers like you are doing it helps if they cure at 'room temp', around 70F ish. Also on the bubbles you were on the right track with vacuum degassing but in your application it is actually better to use a pressure pot to force the small bubbles back in to solution for the duration of the curing process. Surface bubbles can be popped with a quick swipe of a small torch or lighter. Hope that makes sense and can help out with future projects. Subsrcibing to find out what you need 3d printed mirrors for! Good luck!
I just see video posted 4 months ago : 2^15 subscribers special video 4 months later: 222.000 subscribers. that's an epic, extraordinarial growth here. you've gained my subscribe, the bell on for every video you will post, and my congratulations for the quality or your contents!!
Resins generally cure faster at higher temperatures even if it's advertised as curing at room temperature. This could have been the difference between the garage and inside the office curing. Try curing the resin at an elevated temp to get more consistent results.
Ooooh interesting thought - I sure the garage is a bit colder
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel I mean the reality here is that you should use a resin print from the beginning, pointed downwards, with anti-aliasing enabled, which will already give you the smooth surface you want. Such a printer is about $300 - like the Mars. And btw, resin printers are also very sensitive to temperature.
the general rule of thumb for organic chemistry is double the reaction rate for every 10°C increase
Too hot though and the epoxy doesn't cure properly. Might lose out on cure hardness for cure speed or viscosity while pouring. May also end up not curing right at all and end up still sticky. Many variables to think about when it comes to resin/epoxy and what the end product needs. Generally the max cure temp for any resin should be used as much hotter than the 90-100 degree F will screw up the curing process in my experience. I messed up a resin desk top by curing at the top end of the range and it never fully hardened to be useful as a desk top as a fingernail would leave a dent easily and it scratched by rubbing a finger on it.
Could it also have something to do with UV exposure?
Please never change that intro. The click of the lighter being perfectly in time with the music is just so satisfying!
Smoothing 3D prints is something I have to do a ton of, we do work for the film industry making props and pieces of set decoration.
XTC-3D has the worst of all worlds of properties for smoothing resins IMO, it's got a short pot life so you can't let it settle out and de-bubble, and it has a long cure time so you can't use a lot of thin layers.
The UV resin is the right idea, but SLA resins can be finicky and cure way too slowly.
Give "I can't believe it's not lacquer" by solarez a try, they make a brush on version and a spray on version that have differing viscosities. UV resin is great, you have all the time in the world to get the film just right, optionally flowing it out and popping bubbles with a heat gun or torch, then it cures rock-hard in about 5 minutes in direct sunlight.
The other thing that works well is High-build primer from autobody paint suppliers. If you can, buy it loose in a 1qt can and apply it using an airbrush or HVLP gun, you get probably 10x as much solids per dollar compared to aerosol spray cans and can tune the viscosity. Autobody primers are nice because they tend to wet easily so later coatings stick more easily.
Fantastic tips! I’ll go look at that solarez resin right away
Whoops, didn't see your post before posting mine -- hehe I think I suggested similar things but more grumpily :-D High-fill primers are great for filling in layer lines and painting over, i've always paid out the nose for the artsy 'textured' spray paint version but I recently got a paint sprayer attachment for my little compressor so I may try your suggestion! thx!
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel You can throw epoxies in a vacuum chamber to de-gas prior to application. I do it for all of the types I use. And for application I would use a 'pour over, drip off' type approach rather than a brush on. With a brush you necessarily introduce microbubbles (even if you're insanely careful and exacting).
I've given up on XTC-3D too. These days I use automotive filler primer for my props or anything that needs a "finished" look.
I can't recall the details, but some plastic prints can be smoothed by exposing them to solvent vapor (acetone, IIRC) that softens the surface and makes the parent material do the same surface tension trick.
(Edit: a few links)
th-cam.com/video/6xFUNFG-UKE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/NiG1jDEG0kA/w-d-xo.html
These seem a lot easier than mixing up resins and trying to get even coatings.
Wow, this is a great video! We always love seeing people using our products! We also really appreciate how you took the time to explain the difference of a first and second surface mirror and how mirrors work. I saw you had a hard time with the resin. We think the ideas you had about curing and temperature are very wise and see some great comments here. We also wanted to point out that not all paint/resin products are compatible with silvering. Some have products within them that are great for the product itself but can actually tarnish the silver. We saw you mention that you weren't quite sure what is in each of the chemicals. We commented below but will add here, the Blue Silver Solution is a Silver Nitrate base. The Clear Silver Reducer is a Sodium Hydroxide/Ammonium Hydroxide base. Essentially the Reducer functions to balance the acidity of the solutions and pull the Silver out of Solution. That is why you want to keep them separate. Part of the issues you had/inconsistency of result could be with the spraying technique. The chemicals need to meet at the same rate and quantity on the piece to cause the right chemical reaction. Also, you may find Aluminum Foil to not be a great back drop. The Silvering solution will not develop properly over metal and splash back could contaminate your piece. Finally, we just wanted to note that in almost all applications you will need to apply a tinted top coat to protect the Silver from tarnishing. Telescope folks don't to maintain optimum optical quality but instead have to reapply the silver periodically. Once again, great video and thanks for trusting our products and your pieces!
I LOVE how politely you said his spraying was terrible!
As a pro painter I can professional say his spray "technique" is the worst I've ever seen used in a professional capacity. (Which includes producing technical and 'how-to' video content)
Ok Nile, where are you to tell phoenix the exact way the chemicals work?
Nile is not a chemist. His channel makes chemist cringe so hard.
@@Egg-vv8de I have honestly tried to search for his qualifications before and could never find them. When you say degree you mean an undergraduate diploma correct? PS: biochemist aren't chemist, they are biochemist... there is a difference.
And I don't dislike the kid. I watch his content all the time but the blatant disregard for safety is hugely disappointing. The lack of technical knowledge is ok and especially more so if he is trained in biochem not synthetic chemistry.
@@kpedretty3012 look at his older videos
@@kpedretty3012 so basically you're saying he has no idea how chemistry works? I would like to believe that's not true, based on his videos
fun fact: First-surface mirrors are found in rear-projection TVs as well! I found this out while disassembling one.
Not just a giant concrete scorching Fresnel lens? Where do you find them?
fun fact: per dictionary definition, fun facts are not required to be "fun", but merely trivial
"Throwing variables at the wall and seeing what sticks" - Mendel would like a word (also have you heard of chrome paint? 😄)
This really got me, I felt personally attacked haha
16:13 on the left for the chrome paint.
He sure knows how to troll :)
Sh!t usually sticks...
Thanks Cave Johnson
Its a mirror-cool
That's so satisfying to watch! So being silver, it should get a grey/black patina over time? Should look quite pretty as it ages.
Yo Angus! I love the channel - I binged a huge backlog of your channel and Stefan’s channel a few years ago when I got more into printing and learned loads. It’s real weird now that my channel is getting wider impressions, I was kinda hoping one of you would make your way here through the benchy thumbnail…
And yes because the surface is bare silver it should age over time. Some of my parts still look perfect, and some have actually yellowed slightly, which makes me think there’re still reactions with the resin, but I’m looking forward to the black patina. (Not for the mirrors, but for the button and the benchys!)
Now we can pretend our 1:1 prints were casted, and screw with our friends when they pick them up at 100% arm strength.
Would that silver layer be electrically conductive? If so, electroplating would increase layer thickness allowing mechanical polishing on a regular basis and reduce the matte issue. Would also allow you to sort out your 1M subscriber button.
@@___xyz___ you are evil... I like it.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel The benchy did get my attention for sure, but so did the process! Subbed for more.
This gives me a whole new appreciation of the sheer amount of effort required by astronomy hobbyists to grind their own parabolic mirrors for reflecting telescopes from glass disc "blanks" and then silvering them :)
The DIY diffraction tests for the proper curvature of the surface identified deviations in the order of a few wavelengths of visible light...
And then Tollens reagent! I was always warned never to leave a solution of the two parts mixed together unattended in case the unreasonably crabby and unstable Silver Azide might make an unwelcome appearance!
Yeah the advantage of the glass is that once you grind the perfect shape, you can etch and re-coat the front surface as many times as you want. this plastic method is quite a bit less robust. My dad ground some telescope mirrors in high school I think and I can't imagine the patience that took
The guy from Huygens Optics channel has a lot of videos on grinding mirrors and lenses. Not sure if he does a lot of parabolic mirrors, but there's a lot of information about making glass near atomically smooth on there.
@@DFPercush He tries to avoid aspherical surfaces, but he has a ton of admiration for those who do use them and sometimes makes videos about them, like the guy that makes an entire mini-telescope out of one solid piece of glass.
A couple of things from working with epoxy resin and fiberglass:
- reducing with solvents is not recommended because it leaves voids when the solvent evaporates, which weakens the material.
- mixing well is key. how long do you stir?
- typical FRP epoxy has a waxy amine blush after curing, which you can wash off with soap and water.
- there are specialty epoxies that are less viscous
- expect full cure to take 12 hours.
Instead of epoxy, perhaps it worth trying a can of spray urethane varnish. Varnishes are designed to shrink during curing and the stretching helps to form a smooth surface.
the trick to getting bubbles out of resin is actually to put them in a pressure chamber rather than a vacuum chamber. to squish down the bubbles until theyre imperceptibly small and then let the resin harden around them.
either that or use a butane torch to pop them if theyre near the surface
with epoxy you can also use fire to take out bubbles
@@antzjr2184 What do you think a butane torch is?
Was going to comment this. Vacuum chambers *are* useful for getting bubbles out of your resin, but only if you do it *before* you pour. Any bubbles that make their way into your casting after you've poured can only be fixed with heat, a pressure chamber, or one-by-one with a needle.
Ya de gas your resin mixture before applying it
I usually don't leave comments but this video reeeeeally deserves.
You make chemistry and physics so much fun!
I came for the mirroring process and not only left with the knowledge but also left with some good laughs!
I love how you embrace failures, learn and move on.
Showing the trial and error of this process deserves so much praise. It's definitely the encouragement I needed to continue with my projects.
The best advice that I ever got for epoxy, is that you need to mix it until you're sick of mixing it... then mix it for another 2 minutes. You have 2 parts that need to mix thoroughly and if they don't, you're going to get uncured resin throughout your batch. In turn, if you put excess of either part in the mixture - you're leaving uncurable resin in the mix and you'll never get a solid surface, so it's absolutely critical that you get the ratios correct. *I'd also add that you'd probably be better off just using a polyurethane, like Varathane, to build the smooth surface you're looking for. It's easy to use - it'll cure like a rock - it'll sand down to a shine.
Silver-nitrate was used in black and white photography. As such the solution form is photo sensitive.
You can get a mirror coat on glass by applying intense light, as a cameras' aperture to film, an it will stick.
_I amused myself as a kid by coating bottles filled with the stuff by adding stencils, then setting under a lamp._
Yes, another variable might be to accomplish the tasks under red light (darkroom) conditions.
So, as someone who does a bit of molding and casting, should you ever do this again, you don't put urethane resin in a vaccuum chamber to remove bubbles as you found out. Instead, you put it in a pressure chamber. This compresses the bubbles, makes them very small, and effectively removes them. Of course, this means your mold needs to have no air bubbles in it, so you'll need a vaccuum chamber for the silicone mold, and apparently, you'll also want to let that cure in your pressure chamber, so it's used to being under pressure, for best results.
another way to smooth prints that I find super easy is to sand first, then put a layer of spray-putty on them, then sand again - instant fill and works from a spray can (way, way easier than resin)
I recently tried spray putty without sanding (I hate sanding PLA) and it resulted in, at least locally, perfect results and hidden layer lines.
Super happy to hear you were just busy at a bad time, and it's great you are back. These are interesting enough to wait for.
“Technically green.” The best kind of green.
Sticky resin is also usually caused from moisture in the air.
When a resin says cured in xx amount of hours, means for the chemical reaction to complete and become a solid, a fullcure can take upto 2 weeks.
As someone who's been watching since under 10k, congrats on making it this far! Here's to another 100k and many more!
You and Dylan Hollis. The BEST presenters on the Internoot. Your love and excitement about what is so apparent.
Love the video.
You were so close to inventing "Spin casting"!
The centrifugal forces work in just the right way as to create a perfect parabolic mirror.
Make a flat-bottomed circular vat. Pour the resin and spin it while its perfectly level. The result should be a prefect parabolic mirror. Maybe you can give it a try.
spin casting was a possibility, as was high-rpm spin-coating to get as much resin off the mirror as possible. I think the best answer without switching resins may be spin-coating and then letting it rest with a hole in the center to drain excess through. (although based on other comments, I think I'm switching resins)
This does work, there was an article in Scientific American about 30 years ago that included this- they used resin to create large (2m) parabolic mirors.
You can also buy first surface mirrors at a reasonable price from Cloudray or other laser suppliers, they are common in CO2 lasers.
Spin casting is the way many telescope mirror labs rough out their blanks. But in glass, not resin. ;-) I believe University of Arizona has the largest spin casting oven. And they keep it under the football stadium.
Interesting to see you break this process down the way you did. I tried the sprayable "chrome" finish several years back. I even spent the money on a specialized spray unit that managed all the silvering steps you described. (Funny that you accomplished the chrome finish with a few $1 spray bottles). I spent a lot of time and money trying to perfect the process and get reliable results to no avail. It just seemed to be too finicky of a process. Surface prep was done by sanding down to 1500 grit, then a base layer was applied with an HVLP gun(that in itself was a trick, as any texture from spraying was immediately transferred to the final finish). The base layer could not be sanded or handled in any way once applied. Even the most minute errors meant the whole process had to start over. I did have some successes with it, but as a business I just did not find it reliable enough to offer as an additional service at my shop. I finally gave up on it after many months of trial and error. I still have the machine but haven't put it to use for several years.
Good on you for working out the process and seeing it through. Watching your video, it looks like you had a similar percentage of failure and success with your process. The next trick once you create the silver layer is applying a clear coat to preserve the finish as the silver will tarnish/deteriorate fairly quickly. That's a whole different effort all by itself.
i'd take temperature and relative humidity measurements to further hone in on what makes the best mirror. the main difference between inside and garage will probably temp and humidity
I agree, it's seems that you're one of the only people here who has mentioned relative humidity which plays a big role in evaporation rates. The higher the relative humidity is the lower the evaporation rate will be and the slower the curing rate will be.
I came to the comments to mention the variables of humidity and temperature that were more than likely the main difference between garage and indoor.
"Plan A always goes up in flames" is why I just subbed. I didn't need to watch the rest of the video for it, congrats on getting my total devotion to you, and your channel.
I'm so glad this channel is finally taking off; I'm surprised over how long it took!
Same!- I subscribed somewhere around 20k i think
Watching this in December: Yeah, you're about 2 play buttons behind now.
Dude your channel is amazing and I'm so glad it found its way onto my feed cause I'm hooked. I love your manner, your presentation is awesome, you're excellent at explaining complex topics in very clear ways. You're fast becoming one of my top favorite channels.
New AlphaPhoenix vid always makes my day!
mine too
This is FANTASTIC. I've been researching steps on how to do a 3d printed mirror for a couple of years. I hadn't considered resin though. The approach that I've been looking at is to first paint the mirror base with a graphite paint to give it a conductive surface, then to use nickel electroplating to provide a surface that the reflective material can adhere to. I saw a video about 2 years ago where some guys were demonstrating the silvering fluid you used.
Ultimately its a bit of a tradeoff when it comes to how you get a reflective surface. Aluminizing the surface would guarantee that the surface doesn't degrade over time due to atmospheric exposure. With the silvering process, it will gradually tarnish over maybe a year or so. Silvering was the traditional process for making telescope mirrors in the 18th/19th centuries, but the surfaces decayed fairly quickly and the mirrors had to be resurfaced often.
However, there are some semi to major serious outgassing issues with using plastics in the kind of vacuum chambers used with electroplating. Most commercial operations wouldn't support using a 3d printed plastic part. Building your own deposition chamber is possible but can be a huge project on its own.
A possible solution to the silvering process would be to use a clearcoat layer over it. But that leads into one of the biggest overall issues: smoothing.
For an optical grade mirror, it needs to be extremely smooth. This is easy with glass, just grind away at it until you get the correct figure. For our 3d printed mirrors, that's not as much of an option due to the very thin layers of materials we're working with. I had been thinking it might be possible to just have a really super thick nickel plating layer and then do the final figuring and surface polishing on that before silvering.
I have an idea for you. Perhaps having an air current of argon over the mirror surface while you're spraying could help alleviate some of the issues with the silver forming into oxides instead of adhering to the surface. Similar to how welding uses argon to prevent the oxygen-rich regular atmosphere to interfere with the weld.
I've very excited about what you've done so far. Please don't let this be a one-off project. I want to keep seeing how you're approaching this project!
What was the precise silvering kit you used? The MSDS would give a good indication of whatever you used being based on the Tollens reagent. I would be very suspicious of using those types of reagents on plastic resins though: the alkali would definitely be able to attack most common epoxy resins enough to ruin a surface finish.
The amateur astronomy literature has quite a few useful recipes for making your own silvering solutions if you would like yet more experiments to run. The "Amateur Astronomer's Handbook" by John Benson Sidgwick and R. C. Gamble has quite a detailed procedure for preparing the surface and making the solutions.
Keep up the great work!
Alot of these kits are chinese kits off ebay, there is no MSDS. The professional autobody kits tend to give the bare minimum in the terms of chemicals listings. but yes most are infact based on the tollens reagent reaction. Same process is used for typical retail mirror production.
Hi there! It looks like he used products from our company-Angel Gilding-and you are right-the SDS will show the majority chemical component. He is right in guessing it was silver nitrate. That is the Silver Solution. The Silver Reducer is a Sodium Hydroxide Solution. We also suspect you are onto something with the resin. We are going to post a comment about that part. There are certainly recipes out there for your own silvering solution (this basic chemistry was developed well over a hundred years ago). We always caution folks though to be careful-it can be a dangerous process and can even create fulminating silver if done improperly.
@@AngelGildingcom I take it you mean fulminating as in the nitride Ag3N as opposed to a fulminate? My first thought was the latter, as I could see someone cleaning a surface with an alcohol and having residue react with the nitrate, but I suppose if ammonia were used in a solution you could indeed get the former. Either way, I'd agree notion that it should be avoided. Certainly good to keep in mind, thanks for that tip.
@@amarissimus29 yes, the main risk we reference is in the manufacture of the chemicals themselves.
I tried once CA glue instead of epoxy resin. Remembered that I used that back in the day to finish turned pens. It has lower viscosity so it flows better, cures really hard and is very consistent. Microbubbles mixed with epoxy for part can help with smoothing too.
I’ve used CA to coat prints before sanding and polishing with really good results. I could see my reflection quite clearly.
So happy I subbed, this video was made for me. I've been looking for a good way to make miniature pieces with a mirror finish and now I have a lot of info to use.
Be warned that this coating is really quite fragile and easy to scratch - it’s literally a telescope mirror. Good luck!
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel Can you coat it?
The recommendation for miniatures seems to be Molotow Liquid Chrome, and there's a video review where Mechhead talks about what coatings are compatible.
I imagine the silver could be coated with a thin resin or just a spray-on clearcoat. Even PCB lacquer.
I tried spray polyurethane since it was the only spray-on clear thing I had in the garage and it made it a lot fuzzier. it wasn't self-smoothing
The hardener that is not used in the reaction of the resin will rise to the surface. It is sticky and gums up sandpaper rather quickly. Temperature and humidity also have a lot to do with the curing of resins. This was a big pain in the rump for us in the sailplane business back in the late 70's. The solution was to put a layer of nylon fabric on top of the last layer of fiber glass. As the resin cured the excess hardener would rise up above the nylon layer. After everything was cured we simply ripped the nylon layer off along with the unused hardener. It saved us untold hours of sanding.
You have a nice project. I thought I would let you know that you aren't the only one who has had this problem. It goes back before you were born. Lol
6:48 Appreciate the Carl Spackler reference!
Materials Science is so underrated! It applies to everything from arts and crafts to aerospace!
I've been following your channel for a few years: it's great to see that you're finally growing so much! 😊
The 2^15 play button was ORIGINALLY going to be a computational project and I watched your fantastic Conway video while researching. That project got put on hold when I realized I could do a lot more with it but it was going to take a few extra weeks of python
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel Ohh thank you so much! 😊 Feel free to get in touch if you have any question about GoL-related stuff! ⠠⠵
This guy is grrrrrreat. I love him I haven't a clue what he's explaining, or what he is doing but he's fun. Keep going Einstein
came cause i thought you were spencer from icarly
stayed to learn things i didnt know i wanted to know
-me months ago
keep up the good work, love your unique style and choice of projects. congratulations and onward to 2^16 subs!!!!
Thanks this was amazing! Happy I subscribed the minute I saw one of your videos. Happy to see it paid of! Keep it up! High Five from Dominican Republic!!
3:20 why not use ABS and do acetone vapour bath. gives a crazy good finish, tho it can also be easy to mess up. just need a 3dprinter with an enclosure.
the other option for non ABS plastic is sand (super super fine also costly) recasting which does smooth out the layer lines a bit. could maybe be enough here unless the mirrors need to have a low variance in surface height
I'm very glad you got to see some of the best Japan has ever had to offer. They really do lead in the driving experience
This man be making his own silver playbutton. And as a bonus, it's actual silver.
The way you showed the problem solving for the three variables was really smart. You showed perserverence where I would probably have just quit.
You put the tub of mixed resin into the vacuum chamber before application, not the piece after application.
You might (should) also use a heat gun/blow torch to pop surface bubbles after application.
Other tips...NEVER pour from the container you mixed the resin in, there will ALWAYS be unmixed resin around the edges of the container. Pour into a separate container first, mix again, then apply.
Wait at least 3 days before doing anything chemical with resin, or anything at all really. That's 3 days in a warm room too, not a cold garage.
There are literally gazillions of artists and makers on youtube who use resin on a daily basis, you might want to check out some of their how-to vids.
Good luck.
So a mirrors reflection of light involves electrons being moved by photons, in the process absorbing and then emitting photons ( ~1:40).
Since we can't measure the one way speed of light, does this mean that any measurement of the speed of light we make, will be slightly longer than the theoretical calculation due to the time it takes for the photon to be absorbed and emitted? Or, does the scale at which that movement happens, and the speed that light travels, mean that the time the process takes is less than our ability to discern?
Humidity is an issue with most epoxies. Going outside increased the humidity, unless you live in an arid climate.
You’re a natural! I always expected your channel to blow up
That looks incredible and you explain it all extremely well. You are a fantastic teacher.
Comments about elevated temperatures are spot on, typically epoxy resins tend to cure smoother, faster, and clearer when heated. Think somewhere around 125-150F, or ~52-66C. It helps to "thin" the resin a bit, and allows bubbles to reach the surface better for release, and allows the resin to fill smaller crevices better. Another thing I would like to note is that to make a usable optical lens, you will likely have to do a good amount of surface finishing, as the silver coating will be quite thin, and finishing will likely be more difficult after silvering than finishing the resin. Personally, I prefer to give resin 4-6 hours at an elevated temperature, then the remainder of 72 total hours to finish curing completely. It should also be noted that during cure, dust intrustion and bug intrusion should be prevented as much as possible (bugs love paint and anything you need a nice surface on). I would love to see the end result once you get a finished product ready for testing. I'm not typically one for subscribing, but if I were, this would be the first channel I would click.
Look up Factorial Experimental methods. I commend you for doing a "grid search" as you call it and not OFAT. A half fold factorial could help in the future. I also use a lot of resin/epoxies for strain ga(u)ge / load cell stuff. Temperature is a huge factor as you found. Cures tend to be exponential on time until they stop (too cold) or degrade, burn, or do weird stuff at too hot. It could need a huge amount of time in the garage OR it could be below the reaction temp needed to cure the epoxy.
So we did a survey on 3d printed surfaces requested and the most requested was brushed metal look. Being that you pulled off mirror chrome look. Do you think brushed metal is doable using some of those skillsets?
1st surface mirrors can be really expensive if you have to buy them. One common place I've found them is inside of old projection TV's. I have a couple that are nearly 1meter^2 I salvaged from old TVs. There's huge fresnel lenses in there too that are a lot of fun to experiment with! =D
Instead of using hard to control resin, have you considered using filler and primer (+clearcoat?).
113k is a bit more than 32768 :)
Too many subs too fast! I’m a button and a half behind…
Please stay on this topic and make an open source version of that mirror solution. I tried to find a free solution to mirror-effekt my 3D prints, but all i found were industrial solutions for above 500€. So please help mirroring our future and stay on that topic. I will support you at any moment as best i can
I would recommend a stand for your table saw and also standing to the side. Kickback can be really dangerous (at least you had your blade guard/riving knife on) and in the squat position you really do risk accidentally falling into the saw when it’s operating. Just my two cents but table saws are easily the most dangerous piece of equipment in the standard US house, and its highly recommended to treat them with the respect. Other than that, a very cool project man, stay safe, stay healthy and thanks for the great content.
Yeah table saws absolutely terrify me and this is the first one I've owned so I'm trying to catch up on best practices quickly - another comment had some good suggestions about when to use the guide and when to use the miter to avoid kickback, but since I'm typically just doing ply, sometimes I don't have a great way to use either (if the plywood is larger than the table) do you have any tips other than "go in a straight line"? obviously I don't expect high quality cuts when "freehanding" like that, but I'd like to be able to do it without actually freeing my hand from my arm.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel So if you're trying to rip larger sheets of plywood, my go to would be to use a circular saw unless if you had a large outfeed table set up for your table saw. To get an accurate cut, I like to clamp a guide to the plywood, and then put my circular saw up against it/(or in it in my case) to do the rip. There are a ton of how to videos to make a good guide (I followed the plans from a video called "Super Simple Saw Track" by One Minute Workbench on YT and it works fantastic for what I need it to do). You can also purchase them, Kreig makes decent ones. I'm terrible at free handing myself. Once it is smaller and can be supported by your table saw, that's when I would use it. If you do not have space in your workshop for an outfeed table (it's a table you can push the ripped plywood onto after a cut, highly highly recommend one if you have the space), you can use a roller stand to support the piece. Kickback ultimately is caused by the wood binding in the back of the blade which is spinning towards you, the blade catches it, and then flings it forwards or upwards. It does it with enough force and quick enough that you really don't have time to react, and since you're the softest thing in the shop, can impale you, or also draw your hand into the blade before you can react. Your riving knife (piece that sticks out on the back of the blade) is there to prevent the wood from binding in that way. If you are trying to make an angled cut using your miter gauge, youre not going to want to use the fence, the wood might get pinched between the blade and the fence hence the kickback. If doing a rip cut, it's very important to make sure that your blade is parallel to the fence or it also might cause that pinching action. The thing though that started the comment though was your position of how you were pushing the wood for the rip. You want to be as stable as possible, get a stand, they are under $200 and are able to be folded and stored away or make one so you are able able to push the wood through while standing up comfortably. In that squat position it it's way way way too easy to fall forward and that's your face in a sharp blade that can easily kill you. My ultimate recommendation though, watch some safety and how to use a table saw videos on YT, they're really dangerous and it just takes a single fuck up or accident and then you might be missing some digits or worse. Stumpy Nubs is a woodworker on YT that I respect and would recommend his safety videos for any woodworking equipment. Sorry, a bit of a long response. Regardless, stay safe and healthy and just remember we're the softest meatbag in the shop.
Yeah, I've worked with a few industrial machines spinning at tens of thousands of RPMs and they never unnerved me as much as when I used a table saw. Every time I go near one my mind races with all the possibilities of accidentally tripping into it or slipping my hand. There is something about such a large blade so exposed that is terrifying.
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel kickback can of course happen when you twist the plywood going in. But by far the biggest risk for kickback is with lumber, when ripping it. If the boards have a warp or twist, cutting it can release internal stresses and cause the cut to close back in on itself. That's why a riving knife is required on all european saws, I believe. It keeps the wood from closing back on itself. Here in the US sometimes those are built into the cover, so you may have to take them off before cutting ply, but make sure to put it back on when ripping boards.
You could throw it under a heat lamp to cure the resin faster. You can actually cure it in a couple hours if you get the surface temp to over 100f. They say the resin is "cured" when it is sufficiently hard and can't be bonded to with a fresh coat without sanding which is not the same thing as a full cure. The full cure time depends on the hardener and temperature but it can take days or even months if it's too cold since at about 60f the reaction stops. When coating things in epoxy (or other paints/resins) I have a few 1000w quartz heat lamps that cure them in only a few hours but that's for large projects. You can get a infrared bulb at the hardware store for like 10 bucks that would do small parts just fine. Also denatured alchohol is better for thinning the epoxy and I find you only need to add 1% to drastically cut the viscosity to where it doesn't hold bubbles in the mixture anymore. If you add too much it will develop fish eyes however. This is speaking of epoxy in general and it can vary radically depending on the manufacturer & exact formulation which can vary depending on the batch. Not all variables can be known and accounted for but you can reduce the scattering significantly and achieve more consistent results by isolating some of the bigger variables.
I may have to try this with my resin printer and see if I can make a little reflector telescope!
check out the Huygens optics video about mini telescope mirrors for satellites! if you can print suitably clear resin that'd be awesome. nowhere near diffraction-limited optics, but still pretty cool
@@AlphaPhoenixChannel yeah I saw that one. Maybe I'll give it a go. I am thinking about picking up an airbrush off Craigslist to try "silvering" much cheaper than the kit you used. It won't be nearly as good, but it's a lower cost way to at least get a proof of concept going. I found some videos of Alclad polished aluminum paint that looks like it may work
If you’re doing a second-surface like that I believe it’s significantly more forgiving. The specularness is set my the interface roughness rather than the interface AND the quality of the coating
Fancy! I had a very similar problem lately when making curved mirrors for picoprojectors and did try to avoid coating. In the end I settled on thermoforming pre-coated polystyrene sheets to get the same surface tension smoothing effect but could avoid any additional coating afterwards. That did work out quite well for getting okay-is mirrors for prototyping. I summarized all necessary steps for simulating, printing jigs and thermoforming in a video.
Thanks for the video!
Try double or triple mixing of the Resin!
After mixing pour it into a new beaker and use a new stick for mixing.
Even small quantity of non proper mixed resin from the container wall or the stick can ruin the resin.
Hmmm wall stick is a great point - I made some waffles the other day and got a bite of dry mix powder at one point that was not very appetizing. I think it detached from the bowl late…
15:02 "I thought I'ld be so clever!" Oh man, I know that feeling. Great Video!
This guy looks like a younger version of Mark Rober.
Only if you've never seen Mark Rober 😂
Ok the way you did the chemical formulas when talking about the compounds in the commercial film, was brilliant.
If this was shown to me when I was learning it man would I have an eye opener.
And now we know scientists abide the rules of nature, but don't have to abide some other rules to obtain sime results they want. And it's nice XD (random silver button pun)
Great work man, love it!
What a unique explanation! THX for bringing us this. Absolutely you are an amazing lecturer👍👍
Would this work for re-coating a headlight reflector? Would it last out in the elements? Maybe coating it with something transparent and uv resistant would help?
Could it conduct electricity current? or there is any other mehtod to make 3d printings conductive?
Grats on the big growth Phoenix, been watching your content for about two years, keep up the good work.
I won’t lie. I have absolutely NO idea what they’re talking about. Stuff like this goes WAY over my head. I may understand it to a certain extent, but I couldn’t possibly explain it to anyone else
He's making plastic mirrors.
Most mirrors are glass coated with metal. Light travels through the glass strikes the metal and "bounces" back through the glass. The glass changes the image.
His mirrors have metal on top of plastic. No glass layer to distort the image. The light strikes the metal and "bounces" back. It's called a "first surface mirror" because the metal is on top. I hope I've said this correctly.
Brings back memories. I did stuff like this when I built an 8 inch Newtonian telescope 50 years ago. Mine was first surface. Had to be replaced at least once a year. You could get a quartz coating, but I was too poor to do that. Getting a parabolic surface was the hardest part.
"So they got that going for them....which is nice". That Caddyshack reference made me happy.
I worked in a plastic bottle factory. Many of the bottles we made were also printed on. The way we got the ink to stick to the plastic was by quickly passing it through a propane torch.
That's some amazing growth, congrats dude! Blew straight past 2 powers of 2 and almost a third. Keep it up! :)
Subscribed for the "Caddyshack" reference. Which is good.
Because resin is insoluble in water, will the resin be evenly distributed due to surface tension if you immerse a resin-coated object in water? Will it go more smoothly if you place a UV lamp around the water tank at this time?
saw the thumbnail & title; accidentally refresh the page; after 10 minutes found it, Subscribed :D
Lots of interesting insight towards getting a smooth surface with epoxy resin. Though as many had pointed out, the thick epoxy will hide details and edges. The way to go is through a resin printer, and with a smoother surface you can opt to use something like spray on polyurethane to get a smooth surface through multiple thin coats.
I'm glad that I'm finally coming across more videos i can learn from felt like I learned everything I could from YT videos for some time very cool mirrors creation process never seen it done with spraying solutions
Great way to explain *what* reflectivity is.
And great way to animate the chemical reaction 'equations'
Glad that you are getting traction on TH-cam! Your videos are awesome!!
The MOMENT I heard Acetone I knew what I had thought was right.
Great episode.
Cleanest brand intro I’ve seen yet
Not exactly clear on the product you used or how you make this. if you made the solution can you link to the video that shows how two make this. Thanks!
Yeah wtf happened?! I left a few weeks ago after your telescope and surfing, and you've become a legit youtuber?!
Would it be possible to continue to coat the parts to make the silver layer thick enough to buff it to make it even smoother and shinier? Or is it not worth it?
…..I’m just here to applaud the Caddyshack reference. Thank you, sir
Nice work! Would using a pressure pot help with the bubbles (vs the vacuum chamber)?
As a kid I was always fascinated by those robot/cars toys with cool paint job and shinny chrome parts, you can't imagine my sadness and disappointment once the cheap black plastic shows up, now I know how they tricked me countless times, thank you.
I don't know if you had problems with this one but usually a pressure pot will make the air pockets in resin casts smaller, I would assume it works the same for a thick application. Resin pours also work best if you quickly run a blowtorch over it to pop any surface bubbles if you are having any issues. As for curing, high heat on poly is almost always the way. If you have the option between cool and dry and hot and humid, hot and humid would be the better choice. Heat matters much more than humidity.
I've been looking for a while to find a way to give a metallic finish to my prints. What is the name of the product or where can I buy it?
Would baking the resin parts prior to spraying them help with the curing process?
What do you do with the spent silvering solutions? If you let them set, & if they have silver & ammonia in them, they can form silver AZIDE. This is an EXPLOSIVE which can SPONTANEOUSLY go off! IMMEDIATELY after you are done with the solutions, ass salt water to them. This forms silver chloride, a nonhazardous gray powder. This can be recycled back to silver metal with lye (first, gray turns black) & then add dextrose (slowly) back to silver powder (silvery-black). You should have the salt solution premade & ready.
All this silvering stuff can be done much better with the 2 solutions poured into tray with item to be silvered & rocked. No mist! Better quality coat! Pour it off into waste container (containing the salt) when done. This is how telescope mirrors were made by amateurs. There are 2 chemistry's available. One is fast, for opaque coatings such as you have made. The other is slow, permitting making "half-silvered" mirrors by timing the reaction.
Wouldn't the company have to warn about that danger if they are using silver and ammonia?
@@jemandanderes7075 Don't know what the chemistry is. I suspect that the "activator" solution is a tin salt, but know nothing more (other than silvering solutions typically use silver nitrate, ammonia, caustic soda, & glucose or dextrose). I looked up waste treatment & they add powdered clay to the waste (don't know what that does).
Resin problems are usually due to incorrect mixing, incorrect measurement and insufficient cure time.
Mix your resin gently in one container, then pour that into a second clean container to ensure no unmixed resin remains (it tends to cling to the sides).
Then place that container into the vacuum chamber to de-gas. That resin is then ready to use.
Resin can usually be accelerated with heat up to 60-70 degrees (Celcius), but check instructions as it depends on the resin.
Mixing excess curing agent (Usually your 'part B') can give poor results because is can cause the resin to become too hot during the exotherm.
Mixing excess resin (Usually the 'part A') can cause long cure times or even resin that remains uncured and tacky.
Anyway, cool video!
This was very interesting. First video I've seen on your channel and it was quite cool. Just wanted to chime in a bit on the resin. The outside vs inside cure is likely do to temperature. All resins use a thermal reaction on some level to cure. The thicker the cast the more heat the quicker and generally harder the cure. For thin layers like you are doing it helps if they cure at 'room temp', around 70F ish. Also on the bubbles you were on the right track with vacuum degassing but in your application it is actually better to use a pressure pot to force the small bubbles back in to solution for the duration of the curing process. Surface bubbles can be popped with a quick swipe of a small torch or lighter. Hope that makes sense and can help out with future projects. Subsrcibing to find out what you need 3d printed mirrors for! Good luck!
Plan A always goes up in flames, love it bro
Congratulations dude! You deserve it!
Great, where are the proportions, where are the links where you can buy them and what chemicals are needed for this?
I just see
video posted 4 months ago : 2^15 subscribers special video
4 months later: 222.000 subscribers.
that's an epic, extraordinarial growth here. you've gained my subscribe, the bell on for every video you will post, and my congratulations for the quality or your contents!!
9:17 the way you're talking through the respirator is making me think of Bane, haha. Happy to see a new video!