@@LA-by6tl you need to come back down to earth buddy, every game has a budget and it needs to be split between different features. If you don't think that's an issue then just look at Tri, underwater ate so much money they had to remove weapons... So why invest millions into something that isn't even guaranteed to work when we already have PERFECT combat on the ground. I'm all for underwater exploration tho (just swimming no combat), like imagine you're exploring an underwater cave system and you meet a lagiacrus, you'd have to gtfo and it would be such thrilling
@@Mik-kv8xx okay mate how about this one... look at 3 ultimate probably the best game in the entire series, had pretty much everything open combat underwater combat and some verticality, now just refine that and poof best game in the series easily
I started the series with tri, and i craved a water comeback in World. I can't imagine how insane it would be in a World quality game with it's monsters and possibillities
They almost did it in World, too. They probably even have all the animations ready. It just didn't materialize. Here's hoping they finally do it for MH6.
Imagine the following: A Hunt like the jhen mohran, but on the sea instead of the desert. Wirebugs allowing you to hook onto the giant monster, crawling to the top to hit it on weakspots. But there I'd say the attacks on the Monster could be super difficult. Maybe give the Monster a pin-attack of which you can wriggle yourself out. If you don't manage to do it in time, instand knockout (to Show that you are in *their Element* ). Like a Kraken monster grabbing you and slowly bringing you to the beak.
Underwater combat was an impressive addition to the MH formula, especially for a first step. It's such a shame they dropped the idea before they could polish it.
I'm willing to bet they will bring it back. The technology at the time probably wasn't enough to achieve the level of polish they would have liked so they opted for verticality in 4 instead. With the current systems we have now I'm sure World 2 will bring it back, it's the one thing they can add that will completely make it stand out from its predecessor
Water combat was wild, monsters felt bigger or smaller based on where you were swimming around. The combat back then was easy enough to not fully hinder the hunt. With how fluid Rise combat is, underwater would feel a bit awkward but I 100% trust them to pull it off if they tried their hand at it again.
I think Capcom should consider remastering MHTri and MH4. I would rather Tri so they can try to bring underwater combat back. Plus the smaller roster and two of the maps already being updated, I think it would be the easier of the two.
@@TheDalisama Mh3U had the underwater and was the expansion to Tri. But I 110% agree. If they remaster most any MH games 3U, 4U I'd buy them again in a heart beat. I still from time to time play them on my blue generations 3DS
If brought back, I'd love to continue using my insect glaive underwater. I picture the kinsect being in a little bubble so it can continue to "fly" while submerged.
So glad you posted. Was watching your stuff last night and was thoroughly bummed when I saw how little content you had, despite it being so good. Keep up the great work!
Deserted Island is one of the most nostalgic places in gaming for me. Every single area has such a vibe, I have vivid memories from every single one. Getting jumped by the entire pack of Jaggis in area 6 at the beginning of the game, fighting Rathalos high up in area 8, praying for Lagiacrus to jump on land in area 10, it really made me feel like a kid exploring the woods. Just magical.
Even if underwater combat felt a little sluggish at times it was really refreshing to have something break up the pace of a fight and keep you on your toes! I'd find interesting to see it return in modern MH with the more fluid style of battle.
As a lance player since tri, I for one welcomed our new aquatic overlords. Kids these days don't know the disparity between a leviathan on land and a leviathan in the water.
@@tbc1880 Can't even blame you, the loss of range and proper gauging is rough for Bow users It's just that with shielded weapons (Lance and Gunlance mainly) you don't need to worry about hitboxes or mix-up positioning attacks and just hold R for borderline Invincibility 🤣
I feel like while the combat wasn't perfect in the Flooded forest it was something that added a nice challenge to the fights that you had gotten use to already. the plants might have been a bit much but the murky water and other things getting in the way challenged you to make sure you were keeping track of the monster in more ways than just looking at it. the areas were too small for sure but it changed up the way you have to go into the fight which you don't see very often really or at least not in the same way.
Hell yes. Fighting the water monsters in their own environment was infinitely cooler than fighting them on land. The terrain changing the way the fight works is a sweet idea that I hope Monster Hunter will bring back.
Another underrated thing about Tri is the dark caves system. It changes so much. Normally, it's easy to keep track of a monster, even when they're fast. In the darkness, it gets a lot tougher. The only visible thing on the monster are their eyes (and Gigginox's glowy bits). So even when it's still land combat, it's still a different environment.
While I haven't played Rise, I think if the wirebug mechanic stays, it'll make underwater gameplay far easier to implement. Like a _"wire fish",_ or something. Tri was my first and childhood Monster Hunter, and while I understand that my boy Lagiacrus and a partially underwater portion of the Ancient Forest never made it into World - I'd love to see it make a comeback.
I doubt wirebug will stay, it'll end up like hunter arts/styles in which, will be in one game and might appear in another game by rhe portable team, but Palamutes have a possibility of staying.
@@gamechanger8908 You never know. Future games could retain Rise's fully explorable maps and the wirebug to serve as a tool for exploring said maps, tho probably taking away its ties to funny special attacks. If that were the case, they could easily have it work underwater under the simple reasoning that wirebugs can use their silk in a similar manner to a diving bell spider to form oxygen bubbles to enable them to breathe while submerged. Whatever they do, I just hope in one way or another we get the chance to dive below the waves once again sometime in the future, I wanna fight Lagi the way Gog intended man.
@@emperortethysusdacertified8175 I could see future maps being more like World than Rise, if we were to continue in the new world. I'd only see it being similar to Rise if they designed old world maps, also slingers are a thing and claws are a thing, they can expand from that and be less flashy.
With world’s graphics (or even better) underwater would look absolutely amazing and terrifying at the same time. Imagine some giant unknown elder dragon comes at you when you’re traversing the depths of the oceans
I love monster hunter underwater stuff so much. I think about those underwater fights like gobul, lagi and ceadeus so often. Honestly, theme-wise, I like it way more than the riding dogs in rise. Which are fine.
Idk man from what ive seen o think the coral highlands in mhw look better and not just in graphics fidelity, i really just like how it looks and the idea of corals on land
It would allow whole new monster designs. It is implied in MH 4 that toothed (carnivorous) whales exist in the world of Monster Hunter. Imagine a whale -like large monster in the monster roster? It would feel novel and refreshing
When I first played tri i really disliked underwater combat, it felt clunky. Later I saw an interview with Kaname Fujioka who mentioned UW combat was unfair by design. This is the monsters element and we are trespassing in their domain, its not supposed to be fair. It completely changed my view on combat and I really enjoyed it from then on.
See, that's an interesting design philosophy that is absolutely awful in practice. It makes sense from a realism perspective, but deliberately making a huge segment of a game less fun is about as far from good design as its possible to get. This ideal is likely what tainted people against it and why it has not returned since.
Totally agree with this sentiment. The thrill of overtaking such a massive threat is the core joy of Monster Hunter, though it took a lot of growing pains, starting from being totally overwhelmed when Lagiacrus jumped into the water, to handling it like no big deal, carries an extra special sense of accomplishment then the process did with mastering most hunts, in large part because it was so much more difficult.
@@notsae66 This operates off of the loaded assumption that making the underwater combat more difficult makes it less fun. Plus, games are, at their core, about doing a task as inefficiently as possible.
@@chungusumungus4004 It's not about it being "more difficult" it's about it being deliberately clunky. Difficulty that comes from bad controls is false difficulty, generated by bad design. A good game has smooth and seamless controls that do nothing to cause unearned difficulty, so that the actual game play and mechanics can congeal into proper difficulty. Your final statement is an absurdity, putting your personal belief up as fact despite the vast majority either just disagreeing or believing the exact opposite. A game is not about inefficiency or efficiency, it's about fun.
As someone who played gen 1/2 and also played 3U on 3ds, I never hated underwater combat. But suffering with monsters with limited moves with bullshit hitbox, multiple small mons, I like it even more.
That is absolutely not true 3u was my first beat the entire thing to dire miralis and I stand by the only good underwater fight was dire Lagi was pretty boring and didn’t leave much of an impression even when I was 10 ivory was just better
Since 3U was my first MH, when i first fought ceadeus, the dragonator broke off his horn and I thought it was scripted and you HAD to use it to sever the horn. I had no idea until fighting him again that it was a super fitting and satisfying coincidence
One thing I think would complement water combat very well: Wedge Beetles from World! If you could use them underwater to zip around to avoid attacks, or maybe even use the slinger harpoon on the monster itself as a tool for approaching, that would be great for increasing underwater mobility. Another Idea I've had for underwater combat is to replace certain moves with their past versions or Switch Skills. For example, you couldn't really do a LS helmbreaker underwater, so replace it with Sacred sheathe. The Perfect Rush finisher for SnS can go back to the Iceborne version and charged backstep can just be a powerful attack. Charge Blade could get Energy Blade to replace SAED. And Insect Glaive could get Kinsect Slash from Sunbreak to replace the normal aerial moves. And just for the heck of it, give gunlance underwater blast dashes. I think that giving some differences between the underwater and land movesets could be beneficial because it varies the combat a little and solves some problematic moves.
I've been watching your channel since your Loc Lac video from last year, and I just want to say that I love the care and thought that you put into your content. Your passion for the MH series really shows, and I'm always excited when you've posted a new video!
If they're gonna bring it back, they should take some pointers from Sekiro's underwater controls. I remember playing MHTri on the Wii and I absolutely hated fighting underwater to the point that I'd sometimes sit at the shore and wait for the monster to become bored and chase me back up. Edit: Another thing that comes to mind would be implementing world's clutch claw to be able to grapple to terrains for a bit more mobility since navigating water was slow as hell. And they also REALLY need to polish the weapon underwater animations.
Now THIS is my type of video. Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate was my first ever MH title. I was introduced to it by my older brother who called me downstairs when he had to do some chores. He was playing online against a Rathalos, handed me the controller and told me to run from the big scary dragon while he went to go do the dishes. I did run into another area but I did end up playing around with the controls and even took a few swings at it when it entered the area unexpectedly and I ended up hooked to the game. He helped me make an account and I started to hunt! I loved the Great Sword and above all I loved the underwater sections and the Lagiacrus, which is still my all time favorite monster. 3 Ultimate holds such a fond place in my heart because it really was my childhood. I had no clue what I was doing and I couldn't read but I loved every second of it. I really wish they would bring the underwater combat back, truly it feels almost empty without it in the newer titles.
I was never a huge fan of underwater combat but what I would love to see is a giant monster that you fight midair and you attack them midair so it’s basically flying combat but it’s more than just 1 attack
I feel like a larger variety of underwater monsters would help underwater combat. I mean it would be neat to see monster types other than Piscine Wyverns, Leviathan, and aquatic Elder Dragons exist underwater, like a spinosaurus-like Brute Wyvern, or heck just make existing monsters that lore-wise are aquatic like Amphibians and Tidal Najarala able to be fought underwater.
zorah magdaros releasing all its energy in the ocean creating a new ecosystem is the perfect setup for underwater gameplay to come back in the next game in the new world
I will always stan lagiaucrus. Being as it was the fight when I became a fan of the franchise. Delving deep in murky waters with a gun as laggy streaks across the screen missing me by a hair. When I finally have a breather to aim I just see him coiling up in the distance where he launches straight for me and then I wake up back at camp
I've consistently said that Olympic Swimmer should definitely be the default swim speed. Water God from G-rank Helios also had that functionality implemented into it, but I have to admit I was always a little curious why the Jackal and Egyptian design philosophy was implemented into what, in its low rank version, had been a viking set from a water monster. I would have expected a design like that to follow from a desert monster. For me, I started with Tri, and both land and underwater combat seemed equally tank-like to me. In fact, underwater combat almost felt easier, because at that point in the series, land combat did not have a free-swinging camera, but a tiered camera that had preset heights and zoom levels; being able to swing the camera more freely underwater was, well, freeing. End result is that I picked up a lot more hunting tricks for underwater than I did on land, such as the ability to have dedicated dodge up and dodge down buttons in the shoulder triggers on the Classic Controller Pro, or otherwise the ability to dodge up and dodge down by pressing and holding dodge and then in quick sequence following up by flicking the movement stick up and down, which would cause a vertical dodge and continue to swim in that direction afterwards if you held the dodge button. Underwater combat definitely focused more on positioning than i-frames, I agree. The ability to dodge up and down avoided so many attacks that I saw other hunters get hit by because they were expecting good timing and i-frames to do the job for them. As other folks have suggested, a wire fish, wire crab, or simply a harpoon with cable could totally make the wirebug functionality work underwater. Apparently I'm not alone in wanting to see some Nakarkos cousin species underwater, too. There was so much potential for underwater combat that wasn't realized. A temnoceran that keeps a bubble of air around its head, and if you pop it, it needs to surface, and can create impromptu 'land' on the surface of the water using webbing. Shogun ceanataur and daimyo hermitaur, Shen Gaoren. A snake wyvern that's adapted to underwater (like Tidal Najarala). Being able to fight Plesioth underwater was actually fantastic - that he was easier underwater than on land was a nice change of pace. A more complex underwater cave system could totally be done thanks to 5th gen tech advancements.
I absolutely love the underwater combat in 3U, I completely understand why some of the zones in the flooded forest are small because have you been in a forest, it's not an open field. Plus the plants getting in the way it's not like they can get up and move, you're going to an area that isn't maintain by people it's a biome first and a place for hunters second, and the murky water I also like because rivers have a lot of dirt and mud that falls in and gets kicked up making it hard to see. Plus it's a really nice contrast to the deserted island's water areas.
They should add aquatic armor versions and weapons you can only use underwater, like harpoons, great harpoons and needle guns. Add new pals like water jet octopus for traversal or domesticated sharq.
I played Tri as a very young kid for years on the Wii and 2DS, loved it to death. Now Ive picked up World as my 2nd game of the series and I seriously cant explain how much im enjoying it so far. Put in an embarassing amount of hours only in the 5 days Ive owned it..😅
I personally think they shoudl bring underwater exploration back, but not the combat. My suugestion is that you could control new helpers based on seals or dolphins which would be able to collect material and drive monsters out of the water. You still get the beauty of underwater areas without the headache off making different playstyles for all the weapons with 3d movement
While this is true, the people live on land, and it’s precisely because these monster encroach on their space that they fight them. Might seem overly genocidal to go off and kill stuff in the ocean.
Also, more sea farer rep. It can't be just Moga who live off the ocean. Like give us a village that's similar to the water tribes from Avatar or something.
I think they tried to return underwater combat in Rise, not only with the inclusion of the Flooded Forest, but also the many water zones on the Frost Islands and Lava Caverns. Not to mention Somnacanth was introduced.
I wish they would bring this back, I loved the dynamic and contrast between land and water play. I would trade water over the wirebugs anyday(I hope they do).
I think underwater mechanics were important to the franchise as a “hunting simulator” in that it increased the immersion of living as a hunter which was not only one of its first concepts but also one of its strongest points as a game. Also I just love underwater stuff in games.
13:00 The funniest thing about the side quest is that it's absolutely mandatory. And the reason it's mandatory is because the village elder tells you that it doesn't matter how many of the air consumables you have because the water pressure would kill you, which is what the mask is for. Super interesting point, which is then dashed when you can't wear it and everyone's like "Cool, the problem of air has been fixed at least because Cha-Cha can give you air."
It would be pretty cool if they gave us a sort of underwater jetpack. One that could be used to give yourself a short boost, it's not too far fetched considering we have weapons like gunlance and charge blade.
3:40 That shot of the hunter going down the quest dock filled me with such a feeling of nostalgia, and a little bit of loss :') Tri was my childhood, probably the most important game other than Pokémon to me.
I really hope they bring it back for World 2/ Monster hunter 6. It took a bit but once you got used to it. It added a new depth literally and was a nice change to the land based combat.
Frozen seaway could have been such a cool underwater map. Imagine fighting a Zamtrios and then it decides to go under the ice. You can then proceed to chase that bugger under the ice and stab it to death. Also not being able to swim to the surface because of the ice would be nerve racking.
Searched for a video about MH's underwater combat due to Wilds having a small underwater section as shown at Gamescom. While they've mentioned that Wilds won't have underwater combat, I'm hoping that small inclusion could serve as a testbed for a future expansion DLC to add it back in.
Beautiful video! You put into words what my heart already knew: That I love Tri and all it has. The feeling underwater combat invokes is unlike anything else and the underwater maps really are some of the most beautiful ones in the series. Nowhere else do I get the same reverance for how stunning an area is. If I could, I would hangout in Flooded Forest Area 7 underwater all day, or marvel at D. Island area 11's opening into the wider ocean. I've also come to almost like the slower underwater movement? Going toe to toe with Lagiacrus should feel intimitating. Breaking rocks. Spewing lightning. Always having to watch your back. It's challenging! And really rewarding to beat it everytime you do. Tri was my first monster hunter experience and the one that made me fall in love with the series. Even if back then I didn't appreciate underwater combat and movement as much as I do now upon returning to Moga. And until my return I didn't see how limited my beloved SnS was underwater... though we still make it work. What makes this game stand out to me is how *hefty* everything feels. There's a weight to every move Hunters and Monsters make, a weight that I've only really felt again in World. Maybe it is just because of slower movements, but hitting an attack or evading a big bodycheck feels so good in both of these games and since underwater combat is even slower that feeling is amplified (for me, though I get that this can be really exhausting). Thank you for making this video and I would love for underwater combat to make a return to the series!
That very first song is locked into my memory as a nostalgia moment. As a child I'd spend ages swimming in that zone because of the cool water and sound effects
I really liked the "fish out of water" feeling you get when having to fight underwater, for the first time I felt genuinely disadvantaged by the environment compared to the monster and it lead to nice highpoints in the fight where you scrambled to get in as much damage as possible when they surfaced on land before they inevitably jumped back into the water.
Maybe phases of underwater combat? I can imagine a monster fleeing by diving underwater, then the hunters pursue and the monster resurfaces somewhere in an air pocket cavern. Chasing a monster through underwater sequences, interspersed by various cavern fights, would feel pretty awesome.
I'm sure they could do it way better these days, fingers crossed for underwater combats return in MH6 🤞 I miss the vibes and feel of Tri so much, I'd love to have some part of that back.
After seeing the Seikret in Wilds, I think a fish “mount” to help you move underwater and possibly a focus on the purpose fighting a monster underwater to drag it into land could be very cool
So in the interim of you posting this Video and Heavy Wings posting his asking the same question, I actually played Tri. Now, I'm an oddity among Monster Hunter players as I play primarily on Keyboard and Mouse with World and Rise. I personally find positioning and aiming easier to get precisely- Aiming especially is something I loathe with controller. Anyways, playing Tri on Dolphin I knew the camera was a huge problem underwater, so when I ended up needing to resort to using Keyboard and Mouse, I prepared myself for pain getting the camera to work right (My Switch Pro Controller does not like Dolphin... or really any program that isn't run through Steam). It was bad. So... So bad. I still don't think I got it right, doubly so because the settings that work for Ground Camera controls, aren't particularly the best settings for Underwater Camera- especially looking up and down. Camera aside, I'm also an Insect Glaive Main... Problem. Okay, my backup then, Dual Bla- Goddamn it. Longsword it is! That's in Tri... And you can't get one early in game... Greatsword? I'm okay with that! ... Okay, Don't use Greatsword right out the gate, learn to control this epileptic fish and learn the monsters first. Okay... Dramatization. My Hunting Buddy started with Tri, and he mains Lance to this day, and Underwater Combat is a large part of why, so I went into Tri kinda expecting to main Lance, which is a weapon I kinda knew I'd wouldn't be great with. "Why block when Evade," says my brain in every game ever. So. When I first encounter Lagiacrus during that Gut gathering quest, armed with a weapon I barely knew and struggled to use effectively, Controlling an already not great camera in a way that no sane being would control it, do you want to know what I thought of it? It was bloody amazing, Even though I knew I couldn't win the fight, I still tried it, seeing what Lagiacrus could do and what I could do to it. It was completely the same thing I fell in love with when I first played World, a careful and calculated dance against a Monster born stronger then you, that you had to beat. Tri is a game that I, even in my limited time with it, can see making lifelong fans of the series, both in what it accomplishes in Environment and Gameplay.
Would like them to work in water features for a lot of monsters, like as long it makes sense that they could swim, let them swim to maybe a more limited degree to the aquatic monsters. Be hilarious to see people surprised by something like Jho casually swimming past. Work in tripping monsters into water as a hazard, could have Tobi Kadachi completely short circuit when knocked into a lake.
Nice, you made a detailed video and didn't waste my time by saying "no" at the end. Tri was my first, and World was the closest to that kind of immersion I first experienced. I feel like Underwater combat should definitely return to help re-flesh out the world. Thanks
Underwater exploration/combat was a really cool idea. That said, that ceadeus fight, with the timed, break this part, in this amount of time, in this specific area, was absolutely rage inducing.
Lot of people in the comments seem to forget how underwater combat caused new weapons being scrapped and in general made development hell. They do not want to relive that ever
Honestly as much as I dislike water combat, I also kinda really love it. The controls were sluggish and frustrating, but it made it all the more fulfilling to master them. I really do want to see water combat come back because I feel like it was way ahead of its time. It reinvented combat and the areas it gave us were incredible, but the sluggish controls really weigh it down. Imagine having rise controls and exploring huge depths, bustling coral reefs, abandoned ruins, and all the monsters that could be lurking in the water. Except plesioth
I started with Tri and I'd love for them to bring underwater back. The amount of variety it allowed in both gameplay and presentation were really positive I think. With the additions to mobility that they've already made with World and Rise, I think bringing back underwater while giving us lots of new options for getting around quickly and precisely would be great. At the same time, I think it would also be a worthwhile idea to make water combat possible with monsters that aren't at home in the water. For example, if hunters are able to lure a normally grounded monster off a cliff into the water maybe they could turn the tables on it and deal some good damage before it can get back to land. This would make it less of a problem that fighting underwater was almost always a bigger challenge, since in this case we could use it to our advantage. Environmental interactions could also be used to great effect to get monsters into the water, like how we can throw monsters of a ledge by unleashing a waterfall in World. Considering how much the teaser of Wilds highlighted rather barren environments, I'm not getting my hopes up though.
One time I had a dream where they brought back underwater combat but it worked like using the ocarina of time Iron boots so you Just walked around and moon jump to evade. Ngl that might be a pretty good solution for bringing it back
@17:18 the water looks red and almost bloody because it quite literally is. Miralis' body heat caused the entire sea to be boiled, and with it all the organisms within.
Id be cool with it if they made it make sense. It's stupid to think a hunter would have any chance in killing anything underwater without any kind of equipment like an oxygen tank or some kind of personal propeller to give hunters increased mobility and speed to close the gap between them and sea creatures that would normally swim circles around them. Give us something like that then the underwater fighting will be fun and engaging.
@@dracojester2971 Yeah underwater lance was awesome, tho I was only able to play lr with it, helped me a lot against lagiacrus when I was horrible at the game
Interesting. Have you watched Heavy Wings video on the topic? He comes to a different conclusion. Part of the reason is the amount of development time that would need to be allocated for underwater combat. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah that's a great point, but with how big Monster Hunter has gotten, I don't see why they couldn't put the time and resources into it. If they could make an underwater world that good with how small their team was back then, I don't see why they couldn't do it now with how successful the franchise has been. If it means a bunch more paid DLC costumes and what not, ittl be a necessary evil to fund some fun stuff.
Just having water combat adds so many possibilities for monsters inspired by aquatic and amphibious creatures and even some new monsters like Zamtrios could really be expanded on with a underwater moveset.
Underwater really added a layer of realism to the world of monster hunter it really felt alive. Truly underated but hard to reuse or even code, sadly I doubt we'll see underwater ever again.
Ive only played 3u on the new 3ds xl, but i never had problems with the camera underwater. I use the target cam to look side to side and set the second bumpers to look up and down, and after a while it felt just as natural as ground camera control
24:30 - This brings back my Gunner memories. I've been gunning since MH1 and up until World, 3U was my favorite gunner game. The aim controls were still awful, but the ricochet-mechanic did SO much damage underwater. Nobody ever mentions this, but every Normal type bullet fired underwater bounced off of the monsters, potentially hitting them multiple times depending on trajectory.
(should note that I have never played tri)I don't think it should because it'll take too much development time for something that even in mhtri wasnt very extensive. they would have to make twice as many weapon animations and extra moves for certain monsters when they could be working on new monsters or something else. but I can't deny that lagiacrus, ceadeus and dire miralis are very cool monsters I'd like to fight EDIT: I haven't quite watched the video yet so I might change it afterwards EDIT 2: My opinion stays the same no matter the prettyness of it you should never sacrifice gameplay for it you yourself stated the many problems with it such as clunky camera and movement etc.. and you spoke about the amount of underwater areas which are too few to be worth using development time on. So no I personally do not think that underwater combat should return in any MAINLINE games but it being in a underwater based spin off where the combat is only in the water and the weapons aren't unbalanced would probably work quite well
a fun joke from a video about fatalis I think: "The third generation of monster hunter brought many improvements such as the addition of underwater combat. Then came along the fourth generation which brought many improvements such as the removal of underwater combat."
As someone who has played all MH games ( which were released in the west). They cleaned up the movement/controls a lot since the beginning of the franchise. It should make a return. And the two point you brought up: -needing extra animations for underwater movesets -movement being too slow Don't hold water (pun intended) nowadays. Mostly because capcom is not an indi-studio which couldn't afforded an extra 1 or 2 animators riggers per project. They also fundamentally changed the land based movement since world, so what makes you think they couldn't do the same for underwater combat? Not saying that you're not allowed to hold that opinion, I just think it doesn't really make sense from my perspective.
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 I have since played mh3u, even if they certainly can afford to get a few animators that doesn't mean they would want to take the risk of making a mechanic which failed the last time they did it and base a games whole play experience around it. And what could they change about underwater movement in general to make it a better experience? sure outside of combat its fine but during? it effectively does not exist due to the fact that you don't move vertically very much anyway, (though maybe I'm wrong about that since I haven't gone into high rank yet) making it a complete waste of time and money for capcom, time and money that could've been spent elsewhere. anyway thanks for your opinion, have a good day. ps: flooded forest is annoying
One thought I had would be that you would be given aqua jets that are active when you traverse underwater environments, making you just as, if not more faster underwater. Also allow for some emergency dodge type shenanigans.
No, underwater combat / clutch claw / 1 page of chest storage / mandatory stick motion attack controls should not return, regardless of nostalgia baiting.
I really liked underwater combat, and I agree that it should return. It was a fun variation on the normal hunting mechanics. It's main problem was the sluggishness of the hunter. Now-a-days, hunters are extremely agile and faster than ever, so I don't think the sluggishness will return. Additionally, I think the new style of maps would be an excellent addition to underwater mechanics rather than hinder it. Imagine: An archipelago map where you have to swim between the islands. A deep sea map that is entirely underwater, and you can swim around and in deep sea trenches and mountains. An Underwater caves map with tons of unique rock and crystal formations. All of these sound amazing to me. Now imagine the monsters that could be found in these locations. Some other people are already doing this in the comments. Zorah Magdaros, Namielle, Nakarkos, Lagiacrus, the crabs, and more. New subspecies like a Mizutsune adapted for swimming. And all the new monsters that could be made with pure water maps: giant electric eels, squids, and other seaborn abominations. They could do a lot with it, and I think it would be amazing.
22:13 As someone relatively new to MonHun (started playing sometime in.. 2022? began with rise) and a dual blades main, this genuinely made me happy to hear. I've been wanting to check out older MonHun titles, but was worried about how gameplay differences might affect my experience. Tri looks extremely fun, I'm gonna have to give it a shot!
(I'm going to watch the video after finishing 3U, but I wanted to drop by to say that the thumbnail really keeps tempting me to watch - I like the vibe a lot)
as someone that got introduced into the franchise with Tri I would love to se underwater be reintroduced, if you consider the fact thatall of the verticality that has been added from sea level and upward these games it kind of proves that the notion to go back down into the water could be in the horizon in a few games if they really want to. both World/IB and Rise/SB have good proof on concept of large multilayered open world maps, having a similar map but with an underwater section aswell doesn't sound unreasonable. The Main pointer as you said is to get the feeling of movement and combat right, but with alot of the stuff they have experiemented with in the previous 3-4 games should give them a good base to test and build with. Land and Air movement is in a pretty good state even if some of the things we have now don't get adopted for the future (Mountable support,wirebugs etc), so if they wanted to experiment then they proboly could without losing too mutch on it really, and adding water combat would add the possibility to reintroduce all of those monsters that most people haven't encountered outside of videos (ah how I would love to fight Gobul again, even if it is a big spikey ball of pain).
19:43 You actually can just dash up and down by pressing ZR/ZL on the Wii Pro controller (not sure what the input is for Wiimote and nunchuck). This only works in Tri and I'm not sure if it's enabled by default. If it's not, you can change it in the options. In 3U ZR/ZL are dedicated to the chat and Target Camera I think. But you can still dash vertically if you hold the B button and THEN press up or down on the analogue stick.
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bring it back... nothing like diving in for the first time or seeing a lagis yellow eyes swimming at you, absolutely loved it
Underwater combat is expensive to make so no.
@@Mik-kv8xx dont be that guy, they just sold the most sold capcom game of all time dont concern yourself with budgets
@@LA-by6tl you need to come back down to earth buddy, every game has a budget and it needs to be split between different features. If you don't think that's an issue then just look at Tri, underwater ate so much money they had to remove weapons... So why invest millions into something that isn't even guaranteed to work when we already have PERFECT combat on the ground. I'm all for underwater exploration tho (just swimming no combat), like imagine you're exploring an underwater cave system and you meet a lagiacrus, you'd have to gtfo and it would be such thrilling
@@Mik-kv8xx okay mate how about this one... look at 3 ultimate probably the best game in the entire series, had pretty much everything open combat underwater combat and some verticality, now just refine that and poof best game in the series easily
@@LA-by6tl not gonna lie 3u with gen 5 mechanics sounds like a strong goty contender
I started the series with tri, and i craved a water comeback in World. I can't imagine how insane it would be in a World quality game with it's monsters and possibillities
i started with 3ultimate and fighting aquatic monsters on land in later games felt like they were handicapped. 😥
@@dnegel9546 same, lagiacrus was butchered and borin in xx.
and they almost did it too! a shame that they left it out in the end... :(
They almost did it in World, too. They probably even have all the animations ready. It just didn't materialize. Here's hoping they finally do it for MH6.
Imagine the following:
A Hunt like the jhen mohran, but on the sea instead of the desert. Wirebugs allowing you to hook onto the giant monster, crawling to the top to hit it on weakspots. But there I'd say the attacks on the Monster could be super difficult.
Maybe give the Monster a pin-attack of which you can wriggle yourself out. If you don't manage to do it in time, instand knockout (to Show that you are in *their Element* ). Like a Kraken monster grabbing you and slowly bringing you to the beak.
They should add a wire crab to fix underwater combat
There's irl water bugs that fly too. Just retcon that.
Absolutely my thoughts
Lol, how about no, just add a way to increase the movement speed of casual swimming and add an underwater equivalent of the superman dive, thats it
Use a diving beetle
@@slenderhatesmillennials195 There was a swimming skill, you just never used it
Underwater combat was an impressive addition to the MH formula, especially for a first step. It's such a shame they dropped the idea before they could polish it.
I'm willing to bet they will bring it back. The technology at the time probably wasn't enough to achieve the level of polish they would have liked so they opted for verticality in 4 instead. With the current systems we have now I'm sure World 2 will bring it back, it's the one thing they can add that will completely make it stand out from its predecessor
It's a shame they added it before they polished it
They have abandoned lot of ideas before they have polished this game
@@bakedkrow2456Well, they announced Wilds, seems to be desert-themed. Who knows if it's just desert or what else.
@@AkaiAzulmonster hunter world reveal trailer only had a forest, might only be a forest game?
Water combat was wild, monsters felt bigger or smaller based on where you were swimming around. The combat back then was easy enough to not fully hinder the hunt. With how fluid Rise combat is, underwater would feel a bit awkward but I 100% trust them to pull it off if they tried their hand at it again.
Yeah, personally I loved that underwater combat experience.
Ooh, do you think mechanics like the wirebug would work to help underwater mobility feel more slick?
Maybe we’d need a wire minnow tho…
@@chronictoast4665 a wire minnow would be adorable, I would have no complaints with that.
I think Capcom should consider remastering MHTri and MH4. I would rather Tri so they can try to bring underwater combat back. Plus the smaller roster and two of the maps already being updated, I think it would be the easier of the two.
@@TheDalisama Mh3U had the underwater and was the expansion to Tri.
But I 110% agree. If they remaster most any MH games 3U, 4U I'd buy them again in a heart beat. I still from time to time play them on my blue generations 3DS
If brought back, I'd love to continue using my insect glaive underwater.
I picture the kinsect being in a little bubble so it can continue to "fly" while submerged.
love how you started with the chill underwater music and carried that on throughout the entire video. set the tone perfectly
this is just another love letter to tri and im all for it, thank you
You caught me...
@@flyann2 it deserves it.
So glad you posted. Was watching your stuff last night and was thoroughly bummed when I saw how little content you had, despite it being so good. Keep up the great work!
Man you're killing me with this nostalgia, can't wait to hit up loc lac when the online beta for tri is released
Got a Loc lac ore in rise the other day and just got a little wave of nostalgia pass over me reading its name and description.
I've heard the servers exist again
Deserted Island is one of the most nostalgic places in gaming for me. Every single area has such a vibe, I have vivid memories from every single one. Getting jumped by the entire pack of Jaggis in area 6 at the beginning of the game, fighting Rathalos high up in area 8, praying for Lagiacrus to jump on land in area 10, it really made me feel like a kid exploring the woods. Just magical.
Even if underwater combat felt a little sluggish at times it was really refreshing to have something break up the pace of a fight and keep you on your toes! I'd find interesting to see it return in modern MH with the more fluid style of battle.
Being able to fish out the angler fish monster and watch him flop around on land while you pound his face in was such a great feeling.
As a lance player since tri, I for one welcomed our new aquatic overlords. Kids these days don't know the disparity between a leviathan on land and a leviathan in the water.
The disparity is that Lance is effectively a God weapon underwater
@@PixelHeroViish only weapon I didn't enjoy underwater was the bow personally.
@@tbc1880 Can't even blame you, the loss of range and proper gauging is rough for Bow users
It's just that with shielded weapons (Lance and Gunlance mainly) you don't need to worry about hitboxes or mix-up positioning attacks and just hold R for borderline Invincibility 🤣
@@PixelHeroViish epic strategy poke and guard
@@fardgarde4104 Best Strat
I feel like while the combat wasn't perfect in the Flooded forest it was something that added a nice challenge to the fights that you had gotten use to already. the plants might have been a bit much but the murky water and other things getting in the way challenged you to make sure you were keeping track of the monster in more ways than just looking at it. the areas were too small for sure but it changed up the way you have to go into the fight which you don't see very often really or at least not in the same way.
Hell yes. Fighting the water monsters in their own environment was infinitely cooler than fighting them on land.
The terrain changing the way the fight works is a sweet idea that I hope Monster Hunter will bring back.
Another underrated thing about Tri is the dark caves system. It changes so much. Normally, it's easy to keep track of a monster, even when they're fast. In the darkness, it gets a lot tougher. The only visible thing on the monster are their eyes (and Gigginox's glowy bits). So even when it's still land combat, it's still a different environment.
While I haven't played Rise, I think if the wirebug mechanic stays, it'll make underwater gameplay far easier to implement. Like a _"wire fish",_ or something.
Tri was my first and childhood Monster Hunter, and while I understand that my boy Lagiacrus and a partially underwater portion of the Ancient Forest never made it into World - I'd love to see it make a comeback.
Just call it the water bug :D. And I had the exact same thoughts.
Slinger/Clutch Harpoon
I doubt wirebug will stay, it'll end up like hunter arts/styles in which, will be in one game and might appear in another game by rhe portable team, but Palamutes have a possibility of staying.
@@gamechanger8908 You never know. Future games could retain Rise's fully explorable maps and the wirebug to serve as a tool for exploring said maps, tho probably taking away its ties to funny special attacks. If that were the case, they could easily have it work underwater under the simple reasoning that wirebugs can use their silk in a similar manner to a diving bell spider to form oxygen bubbles to enable them to breathe while submerged.
Whatever they do, I just hope in one way or another we get the chance to dive below the waves once again sometime in the future, I wanna fight Lagi the way Gog intended man.
@@emperortethysusdacertified8175 I could see future maps being more like World than Rise, if we were to continue in the new world. I'd only see it being similar to Rise if they designed old world maps, also slingers are a thing and claws are a thing, they can expand from that and be less flashy.
With world’s graphics (or even better) underwater would look absolutely amazing and terrifying at the same time. Imagine some giant unknown elder dragon comes at you when you’re traversing the depths of the oceans
I love monster hunter underwater stuff so much. I think about those underwater fights like gobul, lagi and ceadeus so often. Honestly, theme-wise, I like it way more than the riding dogs in rise. Which are fine.
What if you get a for underwater you get a dolphin to aid in the speed underwater? 🤔
The underwater ruins is the most visually mesmerizing map in MH history and I wish more environments embraced this aesthetic
Idk man from what ive seen o think the coral highlands in mhw look better and not just in graphics fidelity, i really just like how it looks and the idea of corals on land
@@PureColumbianCocainum1949that might be your opinion cuz I personally think it’s one of the ugliest
I started in World and would love it to see underwater combat return
It would allow whole new monster designs. It is implied in MH 4 that toothed (carnivorous) whales exist in the world of Monster Hunter. Imagine a whale -like large monster in the monster roster? It would feel novel and refreshing
@@unicorntomboy9736 wait, what? I started in 4u and I don't recall anything like that!
@@Taiakami777 The boat/airship that our player protagonist and the caravan characters use...
When I first played tri i really disliked underwater combat, it felt clunky. Later I saw an interview with Kaname Fujioka who mentioned UW combat was unfair by design. This is the monsters element and we are trespassing in their domain, its not supposed to be fair. It completely changed my view on combat and I really enjoyed it from then on.
See, that's an interesting design philosophy that is absolutely awful in practice. It makes sense from a realism perspective, but deliberately making a huge segment of a game less fun is about as far from good design as its possible to get. This ideal is likely what tainted people against it and why it has not returned since.
Totally agree with this sentiment. The thrill of overtaking such a massive threat is the core joy of Monster Hunter, though it took a lot of growing pains, starting from being totally overwhelmed when Lagiacrus jumped into the water, to handling it like no big deal, carries an extra special sense of accomplishment then the process did with mastering most hunts, in large part because it was so much more difficult.
ngl i laughed at ludroth on land but on the sea i got clapped
@@notsae66 This operates off of the loaded assumption that making the underwater combat more difficult makes it less fun.
Plus, games are, at their core, about doing a task as inefficiently as possible.
@@chungusumungus4004 It's not about it being "more difficult" it's about it being deliberately clunky. Difficulty that comes from bad controls is false difficulty, generated by bad design. A good game has smooth and seamless controls that do nothing to cause unearned difficulty, so that the actual game play and mechanics can congeal into proper difficulty.
Your final statement is an absurdity, putting your personal belief up as fact despite the vast majority either just disagreeing or believing the exact opposite. A game is not about inefficiency or efficiency, it's about fun.
I want it back. They did a pretty good job with the first iteration, I can only imagine how good they can make it feel now.
I think a lot of the underwater hate is from people who never experienced it, can't wait to see your take
That's not necessarily true, I've met people who are glad it's gone some of them even started in 3u, I personally would love it back
Nah
As someone who played gen 1/2 and also played 3U on 3ds, I never hated underwater combat. But suffering with monsters with limited moves with bullshit hitbox, multiple small mons, I like it even more.
All the hate comes from the Flooded Forest, and I understand that.
That is absolutely not true
3u was my first beat the entire thing to dire miralis and I stand by the only good underwater fight was dire
Lagi was pretty boring and didn’t leave much of an impression even when I was 10 ivory was just better
Even with all these flaws, underwater combat bring so much variation to so many incredible fights
Using the lance underwater felt so good.
The added complexity of underwater combat was a bonus and the underwater moments felt very immersive.
Since 3U was my first MH, when i first fought ceadeus, the dragonator broke off his horn and I thought it was scripted and you HAD to use it to sever the horn. I had no idea until fighting him again that it was a super fitting and satisfying coincidence
I was a big fan of underwater combat. I miss Gobble. I would definitely be in favor of bringing it back.
One thing I think would complement water combat very well: Wedge Beetles from World! If you could use them underwater to zip around to avoid attacks, or maybe even use the slinger harpoon on the monster itself as a tool for approaching, that would be great for increasing underwater mobility.
Another Idea I've had for underwater combat is to replace certain moves with their past versions or Switch Skills. For example, you couldn't really do a LS helmbreaker underwater, so replace it with Sacred sheathe. The Perfect Rush finisher for SnS can go back to the Iceborne version and charged backstep can just be a powerful attack. Charge Blade could get Energy Blade to replace SAED. And Insect Glaive could get Kinsect Slash from Sunbreak to replace the normal aerial moves. And just for the heck of it, give gunlance underwater blast dashes. I think that giving some differences between the underwater and land movesets could be beneficial because it varies the combat a little and solves some problematic moves.
I've been watching your channel since your Loc Lac video from last year, and I just want to say that I love the care and thought that you put into your content. Your passion for the MH series really shows, and I'm always excited when you've posted a new video!
If they're gonna bring it back, they should take some pointers from Sekiro's underwater controls. I remember playing MHTri on the Wii and I absolutely hated fighting underwater to the point that I'd sometimes sit at the shore and wait for the monster to become bored and chase me back up.
Edit: Another thing that comes to mind would be implementing world's clutch claw to be able to grapple to terrains for a bit more mobility since navigating water was slow as hell. And they also REALLY need to polish the weapon underwater animations.
Now THIS is my type of video.
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate was my first ever MH title. I was introduced to it by my older brother who called me downstairs when he had to do some chores. He was playing online against a Rathalos, handed me the controller and told me to run from the big scary dragon while he went to go do the dishes. I did run into another area but I did end up playing around with the controls and even took a few swings at it when it entered the area unexpectedly and I ended up hooked to the game. He helped me make an account and I started to hunt! I loved the Great Sword and above all I loved the underwater sections and the Lagiacrus, which is still my all time favorite monster. 3 Ultimate holds such a fond place in my heart because it really was my childhood. I had no clue what I was doing and I couldn't read but I loved every second of it. I really wish they would bring the underwater combat back, truly it feels almost empty without it in the newer titles.
Great choice of armor, Ayann
I was never a huge fan of underwater combat but what I would love to see is a giant monster that you fight midair and you attack them midair so it’s basically flying combat but it’s more than just 1 attack
I feel like a larger variety of underwater monsters would help underwater combat. I mean it would be neat to see monster types other than Piscine Wyverns, Leviathan, and aquatic Elder Dragons exist underwater, like a spinosaurus-like Brute Wyvern, or heck just make existing monsters that lore-wise are aquatic like Amphibians and Tidal Najarala able to be fought underwater.
zorah magdaros releasing all its energy in the ocean creating a new ecosystem is the perfect setup for underwater gameplay to come back in the next game in the new world
I will always stan lagiaucrus. Being as it was the fight when I became a fan of the franchise. Delving deep in murky waters with a gun as laggy streaks across the screen missing me by a hair. When I finally have a breather to aim I just see him coiling up in the distance where he launches straight for me and then I wake up back at camp
I've consistently said that Olympic Swimmer should definitely be the default swim speed. Water God from G-rank Helios also had that functionality implemented into it, but I have to admit I was always a little curious why the Jackal and Egyptian design philosophy was implemented into what, in its low rank version, had been a viking set from a water monster. I would have expected a design like that to follow from a desert monster.
For me, I started with Tri, and both land and underwater combat seemed equally tank-like to me. In fact, underwater combat almost felt easier, because at that point in the series, land combat did not have a free-swinging camera, but a tiered camera that had preset heights and zoom levels; being able to swing the camera more freely underwater was, well, freeing.
End result is that I picked up a lot more hunting tricks for underwater than I did on land, such as the ability to have dedicated dodge up and dodge down buttons in the shoulder triggers on the Classic Controller Pro, or otherwise the ability to dodge up and dodge down by pressing and holding dodge and then in quick sequence following up by flicking the movement stick up and down, which would cause a vertical dodge and continue to swim in that direction afterwards if you held the dodge button.
Underwater combat definitely focused more on positioning than i-frames, I agree. The ability to dodge up and down avoided so many attacks that I saw other hunters get hit by because they were expecting good timing and i-frames to do the job for them.
As other folks have suggested, a wire fish, wire crab, or simply a harpoon with cable could totally make the wirebug functionality work underwater. Apparently I'm not alone in wanting to see some Nakarkos cousin species underwater, too. There was so much potential for underwater combat that wasn't realized. A temnoceran that keeps a bubble of air around its head, and if you pop it, it needs to surface, and can create impromptu 'land' on the surface of the water using webbing. Shogun ceanataur and daimyo hermitaur, Shen Gaoren. A snake wyvern that's adapted to underwater (like Tidal Najarala). Being able to fight Plesioth underwater was actually fantastic - that he was easier underwater than on land was a nice change of pace. A more complex underwater cave system could totally be done thanks to 5th gen tech advancements.
I absolutely love the underwater combat in 3U, I completely understand why some of the zones in the flooded forest are small because have you been in a forest, it's not an open field. Plus the plants getting in the way it's not like they can get up and move, you're going to an area that isn't maintain by people it's a biome first and a place for hunters second, and the murky water I also like because rivers have a lot of dirt and mud that falls in and gets kicked up making it hard to see. Plus it's a really nice contrast to the deserted island's water areas.
They should add aquatic armor versions and weapons you can only use underwater, like harpoons, great harpoons and needle guns.
Add new pals like water jet octopus for traversal or domesticated sharq.
I played Tri as a very young kid for years on the Wii and 2DS, loved it to death. Now Ive picked up World as my 2nd game of the series and I seriously cant explain how much im enjoying it so far. Put in an embarassing amount of hours only in the 5 days Ive owned it..😅
I personally think they shoudl bring underwater exploration back, but not the combat. My suugestion is that you could control new helpers based on seals or dolphins which would be able to collect material and drive monsters out of the water. You still get the beauty of underwater areas without the headache off making different playstyles for all the weapons with 3d movement
Considering most life forms live in Earth's ocean, it feels like we need to see more water-based monsters. The sand ocean is getting crowded.
While this is true, the people live on land, and it’s precisely because these monster encroach on their space that they fight them. Might seem overly genocidal to go off and kill stuff in the ocean.
Also, more sea farer rep. It can't be just Moga who live off the ocean. Like give us a village that's similar to the water tribes from Avatar or something.
I think they tried to return underwater combat in Rise, not only with the inclusion of the Flooded Forest, but also the many water zones on the Frost Islands and Lava Caverns. Not to mention Somnacanth was introduced.
Also the Wirebug mechanic that also plays with verticality.
I wish they would bring this back, I loved the dynamic and contrast between land and water play. I would trade water over the wirebugs anyday(I hope they do).
I think underwater mechanics were important to the franchise as a “hunting simulator” in that it increased the immersion of living as a hunter which was not only one of its first concepts but also one of its strongest points as a game.
Also I just love underwater stuff in games.
Yes. My best friend and I have been wanting it to come back since the third gen ended.
Also I will FOREVER call it "SAY-uh-DAY-ǝs"
13:00 The funniest thing about the side quest is that it's absolutely mandatory. And the reason it's mandatory is because the village elder tells you that it doesn't matter how many of the air consumables you have because the water pressure would kill you, which is what the mask is for. Super interesting point, which is then dashed when you can't wear it and everyone's like "Cool, the problem of air has been fixed at least because Cha-Cha can give you air."
Ceadeus is my favorite fight in the Monster Hunter franchise, I would love more underwater combat
Wow... Why? Really wondering because I hated having to fight Caedeus
Yeah I'm in the opposite camp 100%, that fight was worse than Zorah M
It would be pretty cool if they gave us a sort of underwater jetpack. One that could be used to give yourself a short boost, it's not too far fetched considering we have weapons like gunlance and charge blade.
Thats a really cool idea
@@Mausyboi Thank you! I was brainstorming ways to give us more mobility under water, though this was honestly the best I could come up with.
Something I never understood was them removing the Subquest mechanic going from Tri into 3U, it's such a weird change to me
3:40 That shot of the hunter going down the quest dock filled me with such a feeling of nostalgia, and a little bit of loss :')
Tri was my childhood, probably the most important game other than Pokémon to me.
I really hope they bring it back for World 2/ Monster hunter 6. It took a bit but once you got used to it. It added a new depth literally and was a nice change to the land based combat.
At 19:22 you forget that the 3DS had the circle pad pro. I used the circle pad pro on my 3ds xl and adds a c stick and 2 extra shoulder button.
Frozen seaway could have been such a cool underwater map. Imagine fighting a Zamtrios and then it decides to go under the ice. You can then proceed to chase that bugger under the ice and stab it to death. Also not being able to swim to the surface because of the ice would be nerve racking.
Searched for a video about MH's underwater combat due to Wilds having a small underwater section as shown at Gamescom. While they've mentioned that Wilds won't have underwater combat, I'm hoping that small inclusion could serve as a testbed for a future expansion DLC to add it back in.
Beautiful video! You put into words what my heart already knew: That I love Tri and all it has.
The feeling underwater combat invokes is unlike anything else and the underwater maps really are some of the most beautiful ones in the series. Nowhere else do I get the same reverance for how stunning an area is. If I could, I would hangout in Flooded Forest Area 7 underwater all day, or marvel at D. Island area 11's opening into the wider ocean.
I've also come to almost like the slower underwater movement? Going toe to toe with Lagiacrus should feel intimitating. Breaking rocks. Spewing lightning. Always having to watch your back. It's challenging! And really rewarding to beat it everytime you do.
Tri was my first monster hunter experience and the one that made me fall in love with the series. Even if back then I didn't appreciate underwater combat and movement as much as I do now upon returning to Moga. And until my return I didn't see how limited my beloved SnS was underwater... though we still make it work.
What makes this game stand out to me is how *hefty* everything feels. There's a weight to every move Hunters and Monsters make, a weight that I've only really felt again in World. Maybe it is just because of slower movements, but hitting an attack or evading a big bodycheck feels so good in both of these games and since underwater combat is even slower that feeling is amplified (for me, though I get that this can be really exhausting).
Thank you for making this video and I would love for underwater combat to make a return to the series!
That very first song is locked into my memory as a nostalgia moment. As a child I'd spend ages swimming in that zone because of the cool water and sound effects
I really liked the "fish out of water" feeling you get when having to fight underwater, for the first time I felt genuinely disadvantaged by the environment compared to the monster and it lead to nice highpoints in the fight where you scrambled to get in as much damage as possible when they surfaced on land before they inevitably jumped back into the water.
Foliage in the foreground is neat and you should consider this a lost feature. It adds a claustrophobic atmosphere to the old jungles and underwater.
The underwater map is one of the best-looking environments I have ever seen
Maybe phases of underwater combat?
I can imagine a monster fleeing by diving underwater, then the hunters pursue and the monster resurfaces somewhere in an air pocket cavern.
Chasing a monster through underwater sequences, interspersed by various cavern fights, would feel pretty awesome.
I'm sure they could do it way better these days, fingers crossed for underwater combats return in MH6 🤞 I miss the vibes and feel of Tri so much, I'd love to have some part of that back.
After seeing the Seikret in Wilds, I think a fish “mount” to help you move underwater and possibly a focus on the purpose fighting a monster underwater to drag it into land could be very cool
So in the interim of you posting this Video and Heavy Wings posting his asking the same question, I actually played Tri. Now, I'm an oddity among Monster Hunter players as I play primarily on Keyboard and Mouse with World and Rise. I personally find positioning and aiming easier to get precisely- Aiming especially is something I loathe with controller. Anyways, playing Tri on Dolphin I knew the camera was a huge problem underwater, so when I ended up needing to resort to using Keyboard and Mouse, I prepared myself for pain getting the camera to work right (My Switch Pro Controller does not like Dolphin... or really any program that isn't run through Steam). It was bad. So... So bad. I still don't think I got it right, doubly so because the settings that work for Ground Camera controls, aren't particularly the best settings for Underwater Camera- especially looking up and down.
Camera aside, I'm also an Insect Glaive Main... Problem. Okay, my backup then, Dual Bla- Goddamn it. Longsword it is! That's in Tri... And you can't get one early in game... Greatsword? I'm okay with that! ... Okay, Don't use Greatsword right out the gate, learn to control this epileptic fish and learn the monsters first. Okay... Dramatization. My Hunting Buddy started with Tri, and he mains Lance to this day, and Underwater Combat is a large part of why, so I went into Tri kinda expecting to main Lance, which is a weapon I kinda knew I'd wouldn't be great with. "Why block when Evade," says my brain in every game ever.
So. When I first encounter Lagiacrus during that Gut gathering quest, armed with a weapon I barely knew and struggled to use effectively, Controlling an already not great camera in a way that no sane being would control it, do you want to know what I thought of it? It was bloody amazing, Even though I knew I couldn't win the fight, I still tried it, seeing what Lagiacrus could do and what I could do to it. It was completely the same thing I fell in love with when I first played World, a careful and calculated dance against a Monster born stronger then you, that you had to beat.
Tri is a game that I, even in my limited time with it, can see making lifelong fans of the series, both in what it accomplishes in Environment and Gameplay.
Could you imagine a modern monster hunter where a rathlos tries to fish mid hunt? Or a land monster accidently falling into the water?
Would like them to work in water features for a lot of monsters, like as long it makes sense that they could swim, let them swim to maybe a more limited degree to the aquatic monsters. Be hilarious to see people surprised by something like Jho casually swimming past.
Work in tripping monsters into water as a hazard, could have Tobi Kadachi completely short circuit when knocked into a lake.
One time I had submerged myself in the far end of a lake and a deviljho just kept spam throwing rocks at me, the ai was definitely confused there
Nice, you made a detailed video and didn't waste my time by saying "no" at the end. Tri was my first, and World was the closest to that kind of immersion I first experienced. I feel like Underwater combat should definitely return to help re-flesh out the world. Thanks
Bro your videos are so damn good. You can literally see how much you love tri like i do. Keep it up ❤️
Underwater exploration/combat was a really cool idea. That said, that ceadeus fight, with the timed, break this part, in this amount of time, in this specific area, was absolutely rage inducing.
Didn’t even watch it yet, YES
Same 🤝🏻
Lot of people in the comments seem to forget how underwater combat caused new weapons being scrapped and in general made development hell. They do not want to relive that ever
Honestly as much as I dislike water combat, I also kinda really love it. The controls were sluggish and frustrating, but it made it all the more fulfilling to master them.
I really do want to see water combat come back because I feel like it was way ahead of its time. It reinvented combat and the areas it gave us were incredible, but the sluggish controls really weigh it down. Imagine having rise controls and exploring huge depths, bustling coral reefs, abandoned ruins, and all the monsters that could be lurking in the water. Except plesioth
I started with Tri and I'd love for them to bring underwater back. The amount of variety it allowed in both gameplay and presentation were really positive I think. With the additions to mobility that they've already made with World and Rise, I think bringing back underwater while giving us lots of new options for getting around quickly and precisely would be great. At the same time, I think it would also be a worthwhile idea to make water combat possible with monsters that aren't at home in the water. For example, if hunters are able to lure a normally grounded monster off a cliff into the water maybe they could turn the tables on it and deal some good damage before it can get back to land. This would make it less of a problem that fighting underwater was almost always a bigger challenge, since in this case we could use it to our advantage. Environmental interactions could also be used to great effect to get monsters into the water, like how we can throw monsters of a ledge by unleashing a waterfall in World. Considering how much the teaser of Wilds highlighted rather barren environments, I'm not getting my hopes up though.
One time I had a dream where they brought back underwater combat but it worked like using the ocarina of time Iron boots so you Just walked around and moon jump to evade.
Ngl that might be a pretty good solution for bringing it back
@17:18 the water looks red and almost bloody because it quite literally is. Miralis' body heat caused the entire sea to be boiled, and with it all the organisms within.
the swimming is what hooked me to tri in the first place so i definetly want it to return
Id be cool with it if they made it make sense. It's stupid to think a hunter would have any chance in killing anything underwater without any kind of equipment like an oxygen tank or some kind of personal propeller to give hunters increased mobility and speed to close the gap between them and sea creatures that would normally swim circles around them. Give us something like that then the underwater fighting will be fun and engaging.
loved the underwater combat. I used motion controls, maybe they just worked better? also mained GS, SnS or lance would've probably been awful
Underwater lance was actually great
@@dracojester2971 Yeah underwater lance was awesome, tho I was only able to play lr with it, helped me a lot against lagiacrus when I was horrible at the game
Imagine the 2023 mh title "Monster Hunter seas"
Interesting. Have you watched Heavy Wings video on the topic? He comes to a different conclusion. Part of the reason is the amount of development time that would need to be allocated for underwater combat. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah that's a great point, but with how big Monster Hunter has gotten, I don't see why they couldn't put the time and resources into it. If they could make an underwater world that good with how small their team was back then, I don't see why they couldn't do it now with how successful the franchise has been.
If it means a bunch more paid DLC costumes and what not, ittl be a necessary evil to fund some fun stuff.
Just having water combat adds so many possibilities for monsters inspired by aquatic and amphibious creatures and even some new monsters like Zamtrios could really be expanded on with a underwater moveset.
Underwater really added a layer of realism to the world of monster hunter it really felt alive. Truly underated but hard to reuse or even code, sadly I doubt we'll see underwater ever again.
Ive only played 3u on the new 3ds xl, but i never had problems with the camera underwater. I use the target cam to look side to side and set the second bumpers to look up and down, and after a while it felt just as natural as ground camera control
We need the feeling of vulnerability back into this series. Tri had that when the monster was literally swimming circles around you.
24:30 - This brings back my Gunner memories.
I've been gunning since MH1 and up until World, 3U was my favorite gunner game. The aim controls were still awful, but the ricochet-mechanic did SO much damage underwater. Nobody ever mentions this, but every Normal type bullet fired underwater bounced off of the monsters, potentially hitting them multiple times depending on trajectory.
(should note that I have never played tri)I don't think it should because it'll take too much development time for something that even in mhtri wasnt very extensive. they would have to make twice as many weapon animations and extra moves for certain monsters when they could be working on new monsters or something else.
but I can't deny that lagiacrus, ceadeus and dire miralis are very cool monsters I'd like to fight
EDIT: I haven't quite watched the video yet so I might change it afterwards
EDIT 2: My opinion stays the same no matter the prettyness of it you should never sacrifice gameplay for it you yourself stated the many problems with it such as clunky camera and movement etc.. and you spoke about the amount of underwater areas which are too few to be worth using development time on. So no I personally do not think that underwater combat should return in any MAINLINE games but it being in a underwater based spin off where the combat is only in the water and the weapons aren't unbalanced would probably work quite well
a fun joke from a video about fatalis I think: "The third generation of monster hunter brought many improvements such as the addition of underwater combat. Then came along the fourth generation which brought many improvements such as the removal of underwater combat."
As someone who has played all MH games ( which were released in the west).
They cleaned up the movement/controls a lot since the beginning of the franchise.
It should make a return. And the two point you brought up:
-needing extra animations for underwater movesets
-movement being too slow
Don't hold water (pun intended) nowadays.
Mostly because capcom is not an indi-studio which couldn't afforded an extra 1 or 2 animators riggers per project.
They also fundamentally changed the land based movement since world, so what makes you think they couldn't do the same for underwater combat?
Not saying that you're not allowed to hold that opinion, I just think it doesn't really make sense from my perspective.
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 I have since played mh3u, even if they certainly can afford to get a few animators that doesn't mean they would want to take the risk of making a mechanic which failed the last time they did it and base a games whole play experience around it. And what could they change about underwater movement in general to make it a better experience? sure outside of combat its fine but during? it effectively does not exist due to the fact that you don't move vertically very much anyway, (though maybe I'm wrong about that since I haven't gone into high rank yet) making it a complete waste of time and money for capcom, time and money that could've been spent elsewhere. anyway thanks for your opinion, have a good day.
ps: flooded forest is annoying
@@tornadoblast I hope you've a good day too.
One thought I had would be that you would be given aqua jets that are active when you traverse underwater environments, making you just as, if not more faster underwater. Also allow for some emergency dodge type shenanigans.
No, underwater combat / clutch claw / 1 page of chest storage / mandatory stick motion attack controls should not return, regardless of nostalgia baiting.
I really liked underwater combat, and I agree that it should return. It was a fun variation on the normal hunting mechanics. It's main problem was the sluggishness of the hunter. Now-a-days, hunters are extremely agile and faster than ever, so I don't think the sluggishness will return.
Additionally, I think the new style of maps would be an excellent addition to underwater mechanics rather than hinder it. Imagine: An archipelago map where you have to swim between the islands. A deep sea map that is entirely underwater, and you can swim around and in deep sea trenches and mountains. An Underwater caves map with tons of unique rock and crystal formations. All of these sound amazing to me.
Now imagine the monsters that could be found in these locations. Some other people are already doing this in the comments. Zorah Magdaros, Namielle, Nakarkos, Lagiacrus, the crabs, and more. New subspecies like a Mizutsune adapted for swimming. And all the new monsters that could be made with pure water maps: giant electric eels, squids, and other seaborn abominations.
They could do a lot with it, and I think it would be amazing.
Having started my MH journey with Tri on the Wii, I can objectively say Im glad its gone
Nothing about that is objective. I also started with Tri and I enjoy the underwater parts.
"OBJECTIVELY"...................
Meant that as Im not someone who never played Tri and still hates underwater. I played it. A lot. And still hated it
@@carnagerex9363 I think you meant to say definitively
>Objectively
>states opinion
Dammit Rex, you used the word objectively wrong!
22:13
As someone relatively new to MonHun (started playing sometime in.. 2022? began with rise) and a dual blades main, this genuinely made me happy to hear. I've been wanting to check out older MonHun titles, but was worried about how gameplay differences might affect my experience. Tri looks extremely fun, I'm gonna have to give it a shot!
Underwater exploration / Swimming feature: Yes
Underwater combat feature: No
I would also be happy with that
(I'm going to watch the video after finishing 3U, but I wanted to drop by to say that the thumbnail really keeps tempting me to watch - I like the vibe a lot)
No
as someone that got introduced into the franchise with Tri I would love to se underwater be reintroduced, if you consider the fact thatall of the verticality that has been added from sea level and upward these games it kind of proves that the notion to go back down into the water could be in the horizon in a few games if they really want to. both World/IB and Rise/SB have good proof on concept of large multilayered open world maps, having a similar map but with an underwater section aswell doesn't sound unreasonable.
The Main pointer as you said is to get the feeling of movement and combat right, but with alot of the stuff they have experiemented with in the previous 3-4 games should give them a good base to test and build with. Land and Air movement is in a pretty good state even if some of the things we have now don't get adopted for the future (Mountable support,wirebugs etc), so if they wanted to experiment then they proboly could without losing too mutch on it really, and adding water combat would add the possibility to reintroduce all of those monsters that most people haven't encountered outside of videos (ah how I would love to fight Gobul again, even if it is a big spikey ball of pain).
19:43 You actually can just dash up and down by pressing ZR/ZL on the Wii Pro controller (not sure what the input is for Wiimote and nunchuck). This only works in Tri and I'm not sure if it's enabled by default. If it's not, you can change it in the options. In 3U ZR/ZL are dedicated to the chat and Target Camera I think. But you can still dash vertically if you hold the B button and THEN press up or down on the analogue stick.
27:24 that was a presentation showing an old demo that was all about the environment