I’ve been shooting 540ish with cut in contact two blade heads forever . I’ve for 20 years shot a hight front of center. I now shoot a higher more extreme front of center with the single bevel . The arrow flight has become much more forgiving of setup. I now this year for the first time am trying 650 plus out of my two compounds. One bow im shooting is 52# with no sights and fingers . The other is 58# with sights and release. My FOC is about 26% with a 650 and 660 grain arrows . I’ve also shot 440-50 grain arrows at 60-80# bows . With cut in contact type heads I’d zip through whitetails even with cutting the scapula a little. Then started shooting Rages . I hunted with the Rages Extreme 125s and the blades stared breaking off going through the animals. Along came a giant 200 plus Boone n Crocket freak . It was a steep down shot and I shot a bit forward of where I wanted . Hit the scapula and the arrow only went just through the scapula and not the ribs . Broke off the broadhead at the insert and he ran off . I’d shot deer with 55-56# recurves in the scapula went through and got the heart and lungs . Hitting the shoulder in the other side or complete pass through. This much faster IBO rated at 345-350 speed demon , light arrow and a parachute type open up broad head didn’t penetrate. This was the buck of bucks I’d hunted 40 years for . I didn’t hunt for a couple of years because of wounding such a majestic animal. I’ve gone back to simple two blade heads but with single bevel , high foc and heavier weights . The past 6 deer mostly haven’t gone from 20-35 yards. Not even knowing there were hit . One was a hard quartering away shot went from hip to and through the chest. That deer did go 150 yards. It knew it had been hit and hurt . 4 of the deer were shot from 50-55 yards. I don’t recommend most people attempt shots this far . Please don’t . Im shooting now 650 grain arrows and won’t shoot that far . It’s almost 100gr increase in weight . I am shooting 1.125” and 1.5” heads this year. Abowyer Bone Heads . They are pretty decent heads but not as strong as I want . Next year I’ll probably go to another brand of a fully machined heads .
Was listening to one of Troy's "opponents" last night (on youtube) He is a light and fast guy - flat trajectory. A great shot. And he says he shoots 530 grain arrows - just about exactly what Troy has been preaching. Go figure??
@@greekmaster1001 yep. JD comes out all chest fronting in his 'I'm going to humiliate heavy arrow Troy' podcast, but then says out loud that he shoots north of 500 -550 which is exactly what RF advocates. And JD isn't even shooting 40 and in like Troy advocates. He's a known long distance shot guy. Seriously people have more they agree on than what they disagree on if they just stop and actually listen.
I don’t shoot mechanical’s cause they will never b as reliable are as stronge as solid steel fixed head single bevel the best but if shwacker made a stronger little heavier head it is the best design for a mechanical
@Elkaholics classy response! More elk hunters need to focus on this stuff. If I shot a compound I'd shoot micro diameter 400 grains up front and let her rip!
Entertain this, please. Not a hatter. I enjoy your show, bro. It's on my bucket list to hunt with you someday. I'm a Blacktail Deer Guide. 370-grain arrow 10% FOC @ 275-FPS is all you need, through the front shoulder into the spine. The Magnus stinger stopped at the opposite side of the spine core, 5-point Bull Elk. I can name multiple similar shots. It just doesn't take much. The FOC part is total backward bullshit in my opinion. Don't take me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you lay down, I like you, and I think you are smart, however, I would like to point a few FOC problems to you and have an adult conversation about our differences of opinion on that. I agree with you in a perfect world of media, however, when the left side of the head hits a bone and the right side doesn't 10% FOC will maintain a straighter path through the animal than a 17% FOC arrow will. It's like a car going into a corner too fast, you have the same car, it has a big heavy bumper on the front and a 454 Chevy in it, run it into that corner and when you try and turn the ass end will come around the front, while the weight in the front wants to push through the corner the ass end wants to come around the front and you will end up backward on the outside of the corner if you are going too fast to make the corner. So, while you are right about the forward weight wanting to carry the load and push it through the corner, the fact that it allows the ass end to come around the front easier makes the arrow enter the animal sideways trying to push the side of the arrow through the hole. Whereas, if you take the same car move the motor back under the windshield take the bumpers off both ends, and take the corner at the same speed, it will go around the corner with the ass end following the front. I believe this is called a (Polar Moment). If you were going too fast to make the corner the car would be still pointing forward and off the outside of the corner. It won't be around backward like the car with all the weight up front. All the circle track racers know about this. Do you want to test this theory? Take 3 17.5% FOC arrows and play a Vegas game with them at 20 yards. I want you to pay attention to your bad shots, punched or pushed shots. Your good ones will be in the target straight. You will notice this with all your punched and pushed shots. Say, your pin was on the outer edge of the 9 ring when the shot broke and you pushed it into the 10 ring. From where you shot your nock will look like it is on the opposite side of the target as where your pin was when the shot went off. It will look like you have a questionable 9-8 while the point is on the edge of the 10 ring. Then play the same game with a 10% FOC arrow and you will find no more than 1/4" angle in any shot comparison. Basically, I'm saying the arrow will keep the nock behind the point better. It's more stable. I'm saying I will have a better score with 23's at 10% FOC than I will with 27's at 17.5% FOC based on the arrow angle in the target only. I will lose more points with the fatter line cutter 27's because of the arrow angle over the skinnyer Dia. of the 23's. That is splitting hairs, but I have proven this to myself. Now there are a lot of other things to consider. FOC and fletch surface are directly related to a good arrow flight. What you may be noticing is that it takes a certain amount of FOC to make your lacking vane surface fly an arrow well. For instance, in target archery, indoor, I like about 10% FOC 23' and as much vane surface as I can get behind the rest. For outdoors, I like I like a much smaller Dia. shaft with a smaller low-profile vane so the wind will have less effect on the arrow. This causes me to have to increase FOC to about 12% to compensate for not having the recovery that is provided with larger vanes. It's a cause-and-effect thing. We give up something for something else. In the end, the results work for each job at hand. So, next time you think you got the magic number, drop the FOC, add some vane surface, and see if you get the same or better results. It's always a combination of FOC and vane surface, one won't work without the other.
It's hilarious to me that you dont think Ed Adhby, Rocketman, MikeTenaka, and Ranch Fairy haven't already tested this extensively. These guys are way ahead of you. YOU try your own cornering test, but on a greased track. Car tires have traction in a way that arrows in air don't. Not a good analogy. As was said, when everything goes right, anything works.
@@stephenballard3759 What's hilarious is you can't read, or you would understand that I already have. That was an invitation to learn something on your own. I have killed well over 100 Big Game animals with a bow. I don't need a theory to getter done. I already know what works. My best friend's wife has killed way more Big Game animals with a 40 pound bow than any of these humps. I'm trying to tell you that it's just not that hard to do. You are all over thinking it. It's about hunting good not the equipment.
Why would you want the arrow to stop on the offside of the entry?A pass thru promotes better blood loss and a faster expiration.Hit a 6 inch nail with a 16oz claw hammer then hit another 6 inch nail with a 2 lb sledge hammer.Which sinks the nail to the head in the board the fastest and the least amount of effort.Physics does not lie,it is always constant and way more intelligent than any of us.Ranch fairy uses physics proven by men like newton.Are you smarter than newton?I know I am not!!Therefore I will believe newton over you.
For all you compound elk hunters...here's the #1 fact a 650 grain arrow has the same foot pounds of energy at 50 yds that a 500 grain arrow has coming out of the bow. Think about that.
I’ve been shooting 540ish with cut in contact two blade heads forever . I’ve for 20 years shot a hight front of center.
I now shoot a higher more extreme front of center with the single bevel . The arrow flight has become much more forgiving of setup. I now this year for the first time am trying 650 plus out of my two compounds. One bow im shooting is 52# with no sights and fingers . The other is 58# with sights and release. My FOC is about 26% with a 650 and 660 grain arrows .
I’ve also shot 440-50 grain arrows at 60-80# bows . With cut in contact type heads I’d zip through whitetails even with cutting the scapula a little. Then started shooting Rages . I hunted with the Rages Extreme 125s and the blades stared breaking off going through the animals.
Along came a giant 200 plus Boone n Crocket freak . It was a steep down shot and I shot a bit forward of where I wanted . Hit the scapula and the arrow only went just through the scapula and not the ribs . Broke off the broadhead at the insert and he ran off .
I’d shot deer with 55-56# recurves in the scapula went through and got the heart and lungs . Hitting the shoulder in the other side or complete pass through. This much faster IBO rated at 345-350 speed demon , light arrow and a parachute type open up broad head didn’t penetrate. This was the buck of bucks I’d hunted 40 years for .
I didn’t hunt for a couple of years because of wounding such a majestic animal.
I’ve gone back to simple two blade heads but with single bevel , high foc and heavier weights .
The past 6 deer mostly haven’t gone from 20-35 yards. Not even knowing there were hit . One was a hard quartering away shot went from hip to and through the chest. That deer did go 150 yards. It knew it had been hit and hurt .
4 of the deer were shot from 50-55 yards. I don’t recommend most people attempt shots this far . Please don’t . Im shooting now 650 grain arrows and won’t shoot that far . It’s almost 100gr increase in weight .
I am shooting 1.125” and 1.5” heads this year. Abowyer Bone Heads . They are pretty decent heads but not as strong as I want . Next year I’ll probably go to another brand of a fully machined heads .
Watching the arrow hit the target thru my sighs has helped me a lot
Was listening to one of Troy's "opponents" last night (on youtube) He is a light and fast guy - flat trajectory. A great shot. And he says he shoots 530 grain arrows - just about exactly what Troy has been preaching. Go figure??
Yeah he says that 500-550 is the low end of what he would recommend… but people always say he always wants people to use those massive 800 grainers
You talking about JD?
@@greekmaster1001 yep. JD comes out all chest fronting in his 'I'm going to humiliate heavy arrow Troy' podcast, but then says out loud that he shoots north of 500 -550 which is exactly what RF advocates. And JD isn't even shooting 40 and in like Troy advocates. He's a known long distance shot guy. Seriously people have more they agree on than what they disagree on if they just stop and actually listen.
@@bbmas1930 that's my weight between 500-550 to be exact in at 530 TAW this year
Okay so I’ve heard of Brook Trout Rainbow Trout Brown Trout Cut Throat Trout but I have NEVER heard of humongous trout ! 😂 🎣
I don’t shoot mechanical’s cause they will never b as reliable are as stronge as solid steel fixed head single bevel the best but if shwacker made a stronger little heavier head it is the best design for a mechanical
Sorry guy, no way can anyone do 90 minutes of the same stuff we have seen from Troy.
@@timbow50 no worries i totally understand. Thank you for your feedback
Not everyone has heard it obviously or Troy would be a millionaire 😅😅
@Elkaholics classy response! More elk hunters need to focus on this stuff. If I shot a compound I'd shoot micro diameter 400 grains up front and let her rip!
Entertain this, please. Not a hatter. I enjoy your show, bro. It's on my bucket list to hunt with you someday. I'm a Blacktail Deer Guide. 370-grain arrow 10% FOC @ 275-FPS is all you need, through the front shoulder into the spine. The Magnus stinger stopped at the opposite side of the spine core, 5-point Bull Elk. I can name multiple similar shots. It just doesn't take much. The FOC part is total backward bullshit in my opinion. Don't take me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you lay down, I like you, and I think you are smart, however, I would like to point a few FOC problems to you and have an adult conversation about our differences of opinion on that. I agree with you in a perfect world of media, however, when the left side of the head hits a bone and the right side doesn't 10% FOC will maintain a straighter path through the animal than a 17% FOC arrow will. It's like a car going into a corner too fast, you have the same car, it has a big heavy bumper on the front and a 454 Chevy in it, run it into that corner and when you try and turn the ass end will come around the front, while the weight in the front wants to push through the corner the ass end wants to come around the front and you will end up backward on the outside of the corner if you are going too fast to make the corner. So, while you are right about the forward weight wanting to carry the load and push it through the corner, the fact that it allows the ass end to come around the front easier makes the arrow enter the animal sideways trying to push the side of the arrow through the hole. Whereas, if you take the same car move the motor back under the windshield take the bumpers off both ends, and take the corner at the same speed, it will go around the corner with the ass end following the front. I believe this is called a (Polar Moment). If you were going too fast to make the corner the car would be still pointing forward and off the outside of the corner. It won't be around backward like the car with all the weight up front. All the circle track racers know about this. Do you want to test this theory? Take 3 17.5% FOC arrows and play a Vegas game with them at 20 yards. I want you to pay attention to your bad shots, punched or pushed shots. Your good ones will be in the target straight. You will notice this with all your punched and pushed shots. Say, your pin was on the outer edge of the 9 ring when the shot broke and you pushed it into the 10 ring. From where you shot your nock will look like it is on the opposite side of the target as where your pin was when the shot went off. It will look like you have a questionable 9-8 while the point is on the edge of the 10 ring. Then play the same game with a 10% FOC arrow and you will find no more than 1/4" angle in any shot comparison. Basically, I'm saying the arrow will keep the nock behind the point better. It's more stable. I'm saying I will have a better score with 23's at 10% FOC than I will with 27's at 17.5% FOC based on the arrow angle in the target only. I will lose more points with the fatter line cutter 27's because of the arrow angle over the skinnyer Dia. of the 23's. That is splitting hairs, but I have proven this to myself. Now there are a lot of other things to consider. FOC and fletch surface are directly related to a good arrow flight. What you may be noticing is that it takes a certain amount of FOC to make your lacking vane surface fly an arrow well. For instance, in target archery, indoor, I like about 10% FOC 23' and as much vane surface as I can get behind the rest. For outdoors, I like I like a much smaller Dia. shaft with a smaller low-profile vane so the wind will have less effect on the arrow. This causes me to have to increase FOC to about 12% to compensate for not having the recovery that is provided with larger vanes. It's a cause-and-effect thing. We give up something for something else. In the end, the results work for each job at hand. So, next time you think you got the magic number, drop the FOC, add some vane surface, and see if you get the same or better results. It's always a combination of FOC and vane surface, one won't work without the other.
Way off with the car into a corner analogy.😅😅😅
@@douglasvaughn9530 Bullshit, do the indoor arrow test game I mentioned and see if you learn something. Don't trust me.
It's hilarious to me that you dont think Ed Adhby, Rocketman, MikeTenaka, and Ranch Fairy haven't already tested this extensively.
These guys are way ahead of you.
YOU try your own cornering test, but on a greased track. Car tires have traction in a way that arrows in air don't. Not a good analogy.
As was said, when everything goes right, anything works.
@@stephenballard3759 What's hilarious is you can't read, or you would understand that I already have. That was an invitation to learn something on your own. I have killed well over 100 Big Game animals with a bow. I don't need a theory to getter done. I already know what works. My best friend's wife has killed way more Big Game animals with a 40 pound bow than any of these humps. I'm trying to tell you that it's just not that hard to do. You are all over thinking it. It's about hunting good not the equipment.
Why would you want the arrow to stop on the offside of the entry?A pass thru promotes better blood loss and a faster expiration.Hit a 6 inch nail with a 16oz claw hammer then hit another 6 inch nail with a 2 lb sledge hammer.Which sinks the nail to the head in the board the fastest and the least amount of effort.Physics does not lie,it is always constant and way more intelligent than any of us.Ranch fairy uses physics proven by men like newton.Are you smarter than newton?I know I am not!!Therefore I will believe newton over you.
For all you compound elk hunters...here's the #1 fact a 650 grain arrow has the same foot pounds of energy at 50 yds that a 500 grain arrow has coming out of the bow. Think about that.