Yeah mate, unfortunately when I first saw your videos about taking it to the shop for Bore Scoring, I knew this was going to be a $12,000 to $15,000 job. I commend you on doing it right instead of on the cheap and then selling it off. You did it right! You have an amazing car now, it has a brand new engine just like when it was new but better! It was very smart to do the head and all the other little internal things like chains and bearings, all of it. The shop sounds like they know what they are doing and didn't lead you astray. I know there will be a day when I need to do mine, I am not looking forward to it. But these cars are aging and they will need Motor replacements or rebuilds. I very much appreciate you showing your struggle on TH-cam to prepare me when it happens.
I first had a 987.1 2.7 I very nearly bought a 987.1 3.4 with 58k on the clock lovely car but ended up with a 76k 987.2 3.4 I was lucky got one 3 years ago and only payed £16000 for it bargain at the time before all the price started going up , it’s a peach and a keeper , good to see your cars all sorted looks great
Thanks for the update joe I’m in Leeds with a very similar car to yours apart from mine is the base model which now I’m really glad to have mine has 176000 miles on and apart from routine maintenance it’s driving really well hope you don’t get any more bills to spend that much just shows how much you love the cayman
Nice! those base models do seem to be the way to go I think. Thats great milage! I love a high milage car over a garage queen. These things are meant to be driven. Not only that but once you hit that milage the next 10k or 20k miles added wont even reduce the value.
Fair play to you Joe, that’s horrific isn’t it. Porsche need to really take a good look at these problems, it’s like they have just turned a blind eye. Hope you enjoy the car the now.
Youve got a great looking car that will last for years. 10 k is about what I expected. Dealer sold you that car knowing about the bore scoring issue tho. I would have gone after them
@@JoeTalksCars Its trivial to look inside and see the signs of bore score... I plan on getting a rebuilt & bored out engine Caymen S bored out to 3.9 and calling it a "keeper"
£10k is what I’ve been hearing for a rebuild as well, and to be honest to have a great sports car that you know will be reliable for £25k, is that really that bad? The rebuild also means anyone looking to buy will pay more because you had the work done
Good info,i own a 997 carerra 2 made 08 with 3000 swedish miles on tacho and may experience the same problem in future,from 09 it seems as the problem is solved,however i ran into this car four years ago and fell for its charm ,what i have heard is that it is very important to let the engine reach working temp before you rev it,i have even heard that it all depends on that you ignore that or to do your oilchange properly,otherwise i dont think this is very common Regards Rob Sweden
Cheers Joe, your previous videos encouraged me to walk away from a '07 Boxster S that a VW Dealer in Mansfield were selling just before Christmas. I was really keen but Dave at Strasse and your problems made me think again. Now that I've seen your invoice I'm more than "over" not buying the Boxster. I will wait until I can afford a 981 (probably Cayman) sometime in the future. You, on the other hand, have a completely sorted car now so make sure you enjoy it.
Yeah it’s a huge risk buying an S. I would be all over a 2.7 especially if you can get the sport edition boxster. They are lovely! The 3.4 extra power is not worth it for the chance of bore score! Don’t be put off by the 987 Just go .2 or 2.7 car and you will be fine:)
@@JoeTalksCars Agreed, at 0-60, you gain a few points of a second over the 2.7 with the 3.4 but you will never notice that unless you do a track day (and still may not!). The 2.7 is still only a a fraction of a second (0.4secs) slower that many 911 Carreras of the same generation so why take the IMS risk with a 3.4. which is why the 987.1 2.7 manual has jumped up in value and now are often more than the 3.4 S version (and there are less of them).
Been lucky so far with my 987.2. I intend to keep the car way beyond my retirement (25 years from now).. that said, if I would have to pay 10k and it would bring me down the 25 years.. I would do it.. However, if I intended to sell the car within 1-3 years.. I probably take the loss and immediately and not fix it. Truly hope your 987 will last your lifetime ! Thats what they are there for...
I was really undecided what to do and as I never intended keeping it long term I was in favour of selling. Then covid round 2 came and prices started to go mental. I thought I had best keep it as the danger was I would not be able to get back into one of the prices didn't calm down.
One of the best adverts for getting a Gen 2 987 you can possibly find, either 2.9 or 3.4, it just isn't worth the risk with those sorts of numbers in the mix.
I feel your pain, I had a 2.7 Boxster (no issues) before buying a Gen 2 911 C2, it is a lot of money, but they are cracking cars and if you keep it for quite some time, and use it, you will enjoy it.
Hoping you can discuss what was actually done to fix the scored bores. My 987.1 which spun a rod bearing at 70 k miles is being repaired extensively because replacement engines are scarce and I had some track upgrades already invested. Will include removal of the aluminum bores and sleeved to 3.8l. New pistons and rods. Minor crank journal repair and other internal upgrades like modern IMS upgrade, etc. All that and a new clutch w/light flywheel ( car 100% track use). That bill is quoted to be 24k. Ouch but, for 15 years of driving at track events I’ve been very fortunate to never have a big bill. Guess that lucky streak had to end. I do love the car same as you do so it’s worth it to me.
Il have to try and discuss it in a future video but it had 6 steel liners put in, all top hat design so they don't slip. 6 brand new mahle pistons and loads of other stuff replaced. I could have gone further with the upgrades and reparis but where does it stop. The car is only worth so much. 24k is insane tho!
I agonized for a long time, trying to determine how I was going to get into my first Cayman. A 987.2 S was just too much money (and that's only getting worse). The bore scoring really had me hesitant. Especially the fact that I live in a cold climate, and only have about 6 months of the year to drive such a car. I really came to peace with getting a Base 987.1, after doing my homework. And after driving it for several months, I love it! I have no idea how much more powerful the 3.4l is, and frankly it doesn't concern me. The 2.7l has just enough punch for me. And still sounds amazing!! There's still 50 different things that can occur, and I could be looking at a major repair bill (some day). It's a Porsche....and that simply comes with the badge..
Yeah in some ways I should have gone for the 2.7. Like you said huge bills can still come, suspension, clutches and even air con repairs are costly. It’s a Porsche after all. Shame the engines are flawed in the bigger displacement cars. Never mind, it’s all good now and I can enjoy the flat 6 howl.
@@JoeTalksCars You've made the best of your situation (but costly). And you'll get to make content for quite some time now. Hopefully you'll recoup some of those fees..
I felt sick for you when you said the 10k... Was more than I was thinking (7kish perhaps). It certainly has focused me on saving the extra for a .2 or a 981. Happy Driving
Suspect a lot of P cars have that issue.....they are not "bulletproof" like many want others to think.....check out a wheel bearing on a 991 GT3......the knuckle is a 6000 track miles disposable at about 10k USD...each. ....makes a lotus seem brilliant. Question for you: what did they say about the chances of this happening again later? Is it a design flaw (feature as my local shop likes to call these things...)? Is the fix a complete fix or a restoration to ground zero and another go at the Russian roulette of bore scoring? Thank you in advance. Good for the world to know these data. Had a 996TT and a known transmission fork issue in second gear cost 6,000usd to fix...and they were doing me a favor and that was a discounted price at a cup car sort of shop...dealer would have been at least double that. Known issue..... Then the coolant leaks on those cars...8-10kUSD. Then a vacuum leak......etc. I used to think Porsche's were bulletproof. They may be but they seem to attract howitzer shells instead.
That’s crazy! No such thing as a cheap or bargain Porsche. I was told they have rebuilt hundreds of cars and none have had further scoring, it does seem to stop the issue. The main issue with steel liners is poorly fitting them and then slipping in the block. I trusted this garage and they do have a good reputation so hear is hoping.
Ouch. Have been watching your videos and had expected a figure in that region. Given the extra bits and pieces you had sorted all I can say is I'm not that surprised. Hopefully as you say the value will rise- indeed in the time I've been watching your channel I would say there has already been an increase in values for these. Now at least you can have peace of mind its sorted and start to enjoy your car!
Thank you for watching the videos! Yeah it’s to be expected really, it’s a lot of work but the car is fabulous now and hoping with a bit of luck the value will creep up and reduce my deficit a little.
That’s a very tough pill to swallow. On the bright side, you’ve got many many worry free miles ahead to produce videos with. I would also bet your car will hold more value compared to other well used examples just from peace of mind. I bet in 20 years we will be looking at 987 values wishing more people addressed these issues when the cost benefit was slimmer.
It is a very good way to look at it. One day these things will be mega money. Last of a dying bread and the first of the Caymans. I would say its a fairly good place to put some cash. Not only that but I get to enjoy a Porsche while it appreciates slowly.
@@JoeTalksCars I have little doubt these will be surprisingly valuable cars in the future. They’ve got a lot going for them…a 100% Porsche experience, a true driver’s car, fairly limited production numbers (super limited for 2nd Gen & high spec cars of either Gen), as analog as you can get for the 2000s, major design inspirations & those curves, as much or more power than nearly all 911’s that came before them (applies mostly for S cars), reliability, etc…I could go on. Happy we both have a chance to enjoy this slice of Porsche history✌️keep the content coming and I’ll be working the algo for ya to help recoup the engine rebuild haha
FYI, as a customer in the UK it's the law that all prices have to be quoted to you INCLIUDING VAT where VAT is applicable. You would legally have been entitled to pay the price given to you prior to them adding VAT on top as that price should have already included VAT.
Wow that’s a little more than I would have hoped for Joe. But you now have a properly sorted car and hopefully a long hot summer to get out and enjoy it . Good luck mate 😎
I feel your pain. I have a '05 Base Boxster and at 20K miles it had total IMS failure. I purchased car new, Porsche would NOT stand behind the problem so it was on me...that's a different disappointing story. I Installed the IMS Solution so now don't have to worry about it. With a problem like this, get it behind you as quickly as possible so you can look forward. Did you do anything for the IMS? Also, heard the Base models don't have bore scoring problems because the pistons are made of a different material.
Wow thats crazy! Porsche seem to be really bad at not supporting customers even when its an inherent design flaw from factory. Mine is a 2006 so they have the updated bearing. The 2.7 do avoid the bore score issue all together but I heard it was to do with the thicker block, the 3.4 is a 2.7 that has been bored out. Not sure how it makes a difference but It does.
@@JoeTalksCars It is because they have a thicker block ? Not different piston material , I think the block warps due to poor cooling on certain cylinders . We recently bought a boxster for mh wife , ended up going for a 2.9 gen 2 . Could of had a 3.4 s for the same money but just thought it was too risky .
Hi Joe, I’m just about to embark on a similar journey as yourself. I’ve purchased a 997 gen1 carrera s tiptronic. Noticed issues with the exhaust and soot very early on. I finally had a borescope and 4,5 and 6 are bore scored. I’ve been in contact with Hartech and Strasse. Hartech use aluminium alloy cylinder replacements…..and do Strasse use steel replacements? If so, did you ask Strasse the question whether the same scoring situation would happen again given they are replacing like for like? Cheers.
Really? Not good! Yeah so they use Steel and said it wouldn’t happen again. They have done hundreds of cars and including their race cars and told me they had never had a car come back in with scoring
@@JoeTalksCars Thanks for the reply Joe. Yes, I spoke with Strasse and they were very helpful. I also spoke with Revolution Porsche in Leeds and Hartech. All very helpful, but I will probably go with Revolution. Best wishes on your 987 journey. Cheers.
This is why there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Yes, you can buy a cheap one but it’s always important to have a war chest to pay for unexpected disasters. For anyone else with bore scoring issues I would always advise going with Hartech. They have the best reputation for scoring rebuilds and your car will be a better bet when coming to sell. Many Porsche drivers in the know will actually seek out a Hartech rebuilt car as they know they’re the best company out there doing these builds.
You are right. And in the US it's Flat 6 Innovations. They are like hartech. They are building my 996 c4s a motor now as I had bore scoring as well. It's going to cost me a lot more than what it cost Joe! It will be done right though and be much more powerful.
@@Jack-russell103 Flat 6 innovations and LN are partners. LN puts the nicasil cylinders into the block for flat 6 innovations. Flat 6 does the rest, head work, motor assembly, tuning, etc.
That's a big bill but then you have had a huge job done on a Porsche and if you had to have the same work on any other reasonable car, I am sure you would have had a similar bill. If you are intending to keep the car, you know what you have now and and further work will not be on the engine. Good driving and happy travels ahead for you now. Cherrs John
Very true, the whole process of hauling the engine out and putting it back into any car is going to be ££££ so just because its a Porsche makes it a little bit more. On the flip side its worth every penny and in a unique situation I have a car thats appreciating which I have never had before.
Hi Joe Yep a large bill but it’s time to move forward in the knowledge that everything is like new and you don’t have to worry anymore about engine problems ….. I always take my 2007 Cayman S to my local OPC for servicing and yes it’s expensive but so far they have never report any engine issues but unlike you now 😀 I always have that concern in the back of my mind 😄 …. Just wondered following the repair what warranty did Strasse offer? Hope you enjoy your Cayman for many years to come you won’t certainly won’t regret it 👍
Yeah that’s it, I genuinely enjoy the car way more now knowing it’s not chucking. 2L of oil out each drive and being embarrassingly smelly. Just hope it continues to reward me and not bring another bill! As for the warranty I can’t remember of the top of my head but I need to find out and file it. Obviously rebuilds will not be without teething trouble, it’s a big job after all. But so far so good.
Gen 1 cayman s generally will bore score most of them I did my research spoke to baz at hartech and I waited patiently till a hartech full rebuild cayman came along and I snapped and bought it nearly 4 years into my ownership and cost me nothing other than tyres fuel and servicing you just gotta do your research as on the internet people will have you thinking only a minority score etc but eventually because of the gen 1 engines and how their made and the cutting corners that porsche did they will eventually fail either buy a gen 2 or buy a gen 1 that’s been properly fully rebuilt ideally all 6 liners etc and someone reputable of course am glad you got your car fixed and sorted enjoy in good health 👌👌
I always thought it was rare and because only the scored and failed cars make it to pistonheads forum but I have learnt the hard way. The way they made the car is a disaster and a rebuild is on the cards for all cars. Glad mine is sorted and hopefully it will be trouble free from now on! Thanks for the comment and enjoy your car!!
@@JoeTalksCars yeh the unfortunate truth is eventually gen 1 cayman s will score at some point I waited a good year to find mine as I really wanted a hartech rebuild as the liners used are the same as turbo and gt3 engines which also use closed deck nikasil liners so porsche basically saved the best for the more premium cars and hence why the m97 engines suffer from so many issues atleast you got yours sorted and can enjoy it forever now without having any worries about the engine Going pop
Thank you very nice video.. I was told it was around that by a couple great mechanics .. although I love the cars I’m now simply going Lexus rc350 yr 2015-2017 .. I love the looks of the cayman but I want reliability over all .. dam it love how the cayman looks standing still
Thank you for informative video! Are you based in Warwickshire by any chance? I have 987.1 Cayman S (2006). I am keeping an eye on oil "consumption". Currently it is 1 bar per ~370 miles (within Porsche's spec of 1l per 600 miles). Have much it would have been if you went the Hartech route? They do 3.9l conversion which should very fun to drive!
I live on the Yorkshire Coast. Thats high oil use, mine now uses 0 and i have done over 1000 miles. Hartech was £14k and for the 3.9 I might be wrong but it was £18k + The 3.9 would be amazing tho.
@@JoeTalksCars you must have some nice roads there. We used to go for motorbike rides in Yorkshire Dales! The cost always adds up more than expected by min £1k... Hartech do IMS shaft and engine block exchange. Not sure about the cost but I think if you can rebuild engine yourself it might be possible to get nikasil liners into your engine for ~£8k (including bunch of tools). 3.9l is a dream! I love the car and the way it drives and I wouldn't even know what to replace it with!
Great video, thanks for explaining. I've given the video a Like but that's because I enjoyed the content, not the price. Ouch! Look forward to more videos :)
Ouch! That's got to sting. Lovely car but 24k is 987.2 / early 981 money. At least you can enjoy it worry free now. Thanks for sharing the details I think that will be an eye opener for a lot of potential cayman buyers (myself included!) great video as always 👍
Yeah it did! Annoyingly before I got this car I looked at a gen 2 pdk and at 23k I was overspending. I set myself a budget of 12-15 and that was easy 12 months ago. Now I struggle to see a 3.4 gen 2 for any less than 25k and 981 way more. I agonised over this decision for ages, but in the end I felt like it was worth it. Just need the value to creep up a tiny bit and lessen the blow.
@@JoeTalksCars yeah i get you. Looking at it in a positive way Yours will be worth a lot more now the works been done. Did the garage give you any info regarding the base models? Do the 2.7s tend to be more reliable? Still looking to scratch that cayman itch!
I know someone who bought 2007 Cayman S with 130,000 kms for $37,000 Cdn from an Acura dealership. One week later, it had bore scoring and costed $30,000 cdn to rebuild. I’m not sure if dealership took some of the responsibility. I did see the ad originally and passed. Ended up getting 2006 Cayman S w/ 49,000 kms for same $36,500 as the bore score one. It was definitely Garage Queen condition, extensive options and owner documents. Owner had a newer 911 too. It’s been a couple months and the only fault is a creak on front left side, had a lift check done and it’s tight. The creak is likely from a coffin arm, there’s a boot on top bolt. Rubber boot might be cracked/torn. Bolt is tight as ever. My 3rd party warranty should cover it.
It’s a huge problem bore scoring isn’t it. Mine just wasn’t detectable without pulling the car apart and that’s not something a garage would do or indeed let you do before purchase. I just took my chances. Trouble is with mine as the symptoms started nearly a year later! Wish it showed early so I could have gone back to them.
@@JoeTalksCars Buyers don’t know about Bore Scoring because they’re too worry about IMS. 987.1 received 3rd generation IMS, which is unreplacable. It’s a sealed bearing with oil slash openings so chances of failure is like winning a lottery. I’ve been watching for Bore score symptoms. Blue smoke, sometimes excessive white smoke, ticking/knocking idle and high oil consumption. So far so good.
Hi Joe, Thanks for the piston and the Christmas card, i would say that is about right to be fair, they have done a massive job and drive in and drive out, like i said before had our 05 VW T5 cylinders done and all that same work and not at a specialist and was not much cheaper than that.
Glad you got it safely! As you can see on the piston it was pretty set in bore score! Yeah for a drive in drive out service in that time frame it’s not too bad.
Could have been worse and I tell myself that most times I think about it. The car was essentially scrap with a broken engine so I see this as a rescue mission.
If the repair company fitted steel liners then I would expect you to have issues at some time in the future. These engines are not designed to have steel liners fitted into them. I would be interested to know what type of liners were fitted.
They have fitted steel liners, as they have done many other cars over the years without issue. Agreed we don’t know what will happen but I’m not going to lie I was sick of seeing Hartech bad mouth anyone that isn’t them.
Oh mate that is brutal :( On the flip side you have a stunning car and peace of mind :) The thought of bore scoring runs through my mind every time I take mine out :*( As you say, hopefully these cars are now at the bottom of the depreciation curve and (fingers crossed) will start to climb back up in value. Look forward to future videos of you enjoying your beautiful motor.
Thank you:) yeah it hurt! Not gonna lie. It was killing me wondering if it had it, any noise or high oil use was sending me crazy. I can just enjoy it now:)
Joe, I think you got quite a bit for the money spent. You would spend a lot more here in the states for a rebuild. I wouldn't worry about having more in the car than it would sell for. You have a fantastic car now that will give you years of pleasure. The stunner for me is in your closing comments...having to rebuild an engine at 60k miles is just shameful. Porsche engineers should be embarrassed to go out in public! You should send the bill to Porsche for reimbursement!😉😉
Next video, hand delivering the bill to Porsche 😂 It is a joke isnt it but like you said I have a car that should be more or less worry free, obviously not a cheap car, other things will go but the engine should be sound.
Wow. That's a crazy amount of money. It's way more than I was expecting. I was thinking ok quote was 5k add maybe half that again 7.5k...... but to nearly double is huge. It is alot of work but woa. Really appreciate what you went through. Not sure of your financial status but that is a painful burden surly. I do understand tho, as I would 100% do the same if this type of thing needed doing on mine as well.
Don't know why people say Porsches are well built.. with all these engine problems from 996 to 997. 991 is still new and we don't know what other catastraphic failures are coming up
Hi, it was Strasse in Leeds. I somewhat recommend them. The work was good, the bill was misleading and I have later found out they reinstalled the old thermostat!
What a scary bill but I look forward to the upcoming videos. Makes me think the slightly leggy (119K mile) 987.2 Boxster S I picked up at the weekend was a bit of a bargain at 13k
also I heard its most common on first gen S 3.4 engine and the .2s are different with 4 oil pumps and coating material to fix this issue. the s always was less reliable than the non. Non s 987.2 it the way to go
Honsetly thought that price wasn't bad. I'd almost look for a scored car cheap to have rebuilt. I've heard here in the States that you can spend $30k USD.
Great honestly Joe that's a big bill but hopefully you will now get a few years reliable motoring out of it My 986 has cost me a small fortune in last year and its needs a lot more spending on it but not sure it's worth it as 986 values are a lot less than a cayman so at a bit of a crossroads now plus it's 23 years old so that comes into the equation
They can just cost so much can't they. Its not the same as a 911 and that is even more true for the 986. However look at the 996 911. I avoided them like the plaque to get this 987 and some part of me wishes I got one instead. Same chance of scoring but the value has gone insane on all 911 and mostly the previously hated 996.
In retrospect would you have considered putting the Audi S4 V8 engine. I know these can be fitted but would've needed a custom subframe and a different ecu. To get someone to do it would probably have ended with a similar if not less bill but would've ended up with an extra 60-80bhp. Weight wise it would've similar as the V8 is all alloy. It's the same engine as the Cayennes engine so still essentially a Porsche!!
@JoeTalksCars certainly a premium is applied over here. I've been studying what I'm going to buy and what I'll have to dive into on rework. Cuz I never will pay for anyone to work on my rigs.
@@OwhyeeVdub crazy! Yeah it’s the best way is to get clued up on what you buy so it’s all diy. Wish I would work on mine but I have neither the time or the space. One day maybe
had similar engine problem with a 997.2 GTS. did complete rebuild, headers, valves, all cylinders with sleeves, pistons, water pump, oil pump, chains, etc. final bill 22k EUR. done by a German company specializing in fixing Porsche engines.
One wonders what the cost would have been had you used hartech. 10k is a lot of money. I am currently on 40k miles.. As the Clash sang.. "should I stay or should I go". What warranty did you get from Strasse?
@@JoeTalksCars I do not want to tempt fate... The car was bought in August 2020 after much deliberation. I think I have mentioned before that the 944 I had also had some scary stories. I bought that car with 87k and it gave up the ghost at 115k (just after a service). So far, I have only had to fill 1 bar in 5k miles and I was advised I would need to after having the engine removed for some other work. We're still in the 5% failure rate. If it happens, it happens. I would consider a gen2.. Not sure I want to give up analogue steering. The gla has non analogue steering.. One can tell.
Wow. So is this a common issue with cayman 3.4s? Love these cars and was planning to buy one and sell my GTA which I have owned for 10 years and never had issues with the engine. Completely put off now🤔.
My plan is to go 3.8 forged and lower compression for twin turbos, If I’m dropping a fair amount for a basic rebuild I may as well pay the extra to sit at 6-700bhp
Wow! That would be absolutely staggering! The cost of that must be huge tho! I did consider converting it to electric but that would have been an easy 20k
On a positive note, most of what the information displayed on your odometer is now false-you've practically got a new car in many ways. Thanks for sharing the experience Joe, I hope whoever sold you the Cayman receives some karma repaid at a later stage as well.
It’s when the piston coating wears away and scratches the cylinder walls leaving gaps for oil to pass through. In theory it won’t reoccur and it’s been great for 2 years now
That bill is huge. Should have gone with a base 2.7l or a 987.2. I know it's easy to say that now, but bore scoring is a really widespread problem, much more common than IMS problems in this car. I personally know of two 987 with bore scoring and there aren't many around.
Yeah 2.7 seems to be the way to go, the 3.4 is simply not worth the risk. Stupid how Porsche made them so badly, more common than they would have anyone think.
@@JoeTalksCars Followed your channel before I bought my little 2.7, was initially a little peeved I didn't go for the 3.4 after looking at a 3.4 for so long... You've changed my mind, but still. At least you know its solid now and have nothing engine related to worry about!
Hi @Joe Talks Cars I am 2.7 owner since April 2021 with 83000 miles and atm. have 96000 I am all ready spent for maintenance about £8000 I bought a car without experience🙈 a still need a new clutch and better wheels.How important is a pre inspection check. Thank you for your update and enjoy your car👍🤞
if its any consolation my 2007 2.7 with 75000 miles blew a head gasket = £3k bill (included also new clutch and starter motor whilst engine was out), so buying a 2.7 is no assurance of low cost motoring... this happened back in 2018, I still own the car and still love it
No, bore scoring is not a widespread problem! It's over exaggerated by forums. Yes, it happens and when that happens it's a nasty bill to fork out 🥴 but not every Caymans, Boxters or 911 (996) and 997 gen 1 suffer from it. There are also various ways to reduce any potential risks, such as low temperature thermostat etc...
my god I wonder if you could have had it re-sleeved at Hartech for this sort of money, at least u know it wouldn't develop scoring again if you went that route.
@@JoeTalksCars Ah sorry i had misunderstood that, in that case yes it is a lot of money but it gives you peace of mind and a very nice car that you can enjoy without worry! well worth it!
I can't imagine how gutted I would be to have to deal with this. That's surpasses 987.2 money and is getting close to 981 money. If I do decide to buy I'll just get one of those instead. The 981 is the best looking in my opinion inside and out. Cheap porsches are so tempting but not with the risk. I don't know where this 1-5% estimate if failure comes from but there are plenty of rebuilt 911s and Caymans on auto trader and a few guys on TH-cam have had it.
Yeah it’s borderline a 981. Not quite tho, it’s more close to a .2 which is what I should have gone for, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Annoyingly I could have got a cheaper one, this one was at the high end of a .1 at the time.
ih think that compared to a Hartech rebuild this seems reasonable. However Hartech are well known in the industry and therefore carries more attention tha other wise would be the case. If i were buying a Gen1 997 for example with this issue i would personally have all the work done by Hartech at a cost of approx 10 - 15 k. with these cars you really have to do the Maths before buying . a car with bore scoring is therefore only worth around 10-12 k max depending on spec etc.
yeah I am not gonna lie it hurt! But I couldn't be without the car so had no choice. Toyed with getting a Panamera but even they are not without the faults. The V8 apparently is prone to scoring believe it or not.
Thats not a Bill ,, its big enough to be a William ,, but what do you do , too much cash involved to throw it away and buy a Clio , so a fix had to be done , worth the.. cost well only you can answer that but its a good solid driver now so the cash cost will be spread over a longer time and looking at its rebuild as more of a running cost and its not looking just as bad , end result its a nice car and you know its sound. Thanks for showing the actual costs involved .
I second the Gen 2 car suggestion. M4 is another great option but both cars are prone to have issues that cost $$$. The Porsche is more likely to keep/increase value with better reliability between service & repair. Food for thought
May I ask if you replaced all 6 cylinder liners for this rate, or just 1 side of the engine with 3 cylinders? I am sure you stated this somewhere in your earlier videos but I honestly forgot.....
@@JoeTalksCars Glad you got all 6 cylinders re-build. While the bill is high, at least you now can have a piece of mind. If you can keep the car for a long time - not occurring other significant cost - then it still will be ok. Personally, I am a keeper of cars. I will continue to drive my 981 for as long as I live and become a classic car owner in the process. It seems to me that you have a similar outlook on your 987 - so over time the burden of the bill will go away and even from a pure financial point of view such a repair may make sense under a long ownership horizon, and the facts that cars in the long run only become more expensive anyway.
Ouch! Quite a figure there at £10k, but around what I was expecting in fairness. The thing is, you can’t put a price on a car that you have an emotional connection to (well, you can, but…), so you’re paying for your enjoyment and future miles in the car. If you feel like it was worth it, then it was. Enjoy!
Yeah to be fair it’s around what I expected accept being at the top end. Such a shame Porsche built them so badly from factory yet such lovely cars. This one is a keeper.
It is awful that a car needs that level of rebuild after 60,000 miles, especially a Porsche, but they will just state it is high performance to justify, what we all call Porsche TAX (which is wrong in this case because IMS is an issue that Porsche have swept under carpet - probably because sales numbers are so low, imagine a Ford Focus having the same issue, it would definitely have a recall!). Buyers beware - stay away from this pre 07 generation of Porsche unless IMS report undertaken (not just Cayman). The 987 is an amazing car and pleased you can still enjoy, it is appreciating in value too and definitely a future classic.
Yeah I did do the research but clearly not enough, I’d have avoided the car all together and gone panamera V8 or something. Gutted it cost what it did but it’s certainly not going to lose money now.
I'm paying 6.5k gbp for rebuilding 987 3.2S. It was very early stage, no oil consumption, just a slight ticking on idle. The car is in the shop since August. I'm located in Poland ¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
Wow ticking but no oil use. Mine was the other way round, in the end on the way to the garage it got the ticking but it was more tapping, like a person inside the engine with a tiny hammer. Sounded rough!
Ticking is normal on 3.2 you are paying a garage for nothing… and they are taking your money for nothing and it will still tick their after it’s common on 3.2 due to low oil pressure when warm at idle! They all do it even the old M96 engines do it there is a oil pressure spring that breaks down and needs to be changed to rectify that which is £4 on the internet. So sorry if your paying for a rebuild all I can say is you are being taken for a mug and whoever is doing it clearly doesn’t know porsche engines. The 3.2 cannot have bore score due to the liners being different and no oil use means deffinetely not bore score.
How much of that was labour? If you'd been able to do the work yourself I wonder what the difference would've been. And, importantly, what's to stop it needing the whole thing done again in
As it should, it’s nearly a house deposit! 🤣 probably half that is labour but can’t remember of the top of my head. In theory I won’t but some say it will. Time will tell, heard good things from other rebuilds suggesting it will go for years so I’d like to think it will.
@@JoeTalksCars Well, I really hope you keep it and enjoy it for years to come. You can't lose money on something you don't sell. Be a shame to get it sorted and then give someone else the benefit of that.
Consider yourself lucky .... Cost for such rebuilds in North America are easily double what you paid .. I have found labor and associated cost for comparable work on your side of the pond to always be much less .. Regardless this is the price we way to enjoy are cars and well worth it !!
Wow that’s insane! Yeah labour over here is a little cheaper thankfully. Obviously going to a Porsche Center is a lot more expensive, maybe even double.
I wouldn't go back to that shop for repairs. If they truly are a Porsche specialist, they would have known from the beginning you'd be a lot closer to 10 grand to do it right. I can hear the disappointment in your voice, but you learned a couple things at least and now you can enjoy the car...as much as possible with a tiptronic anyway.
You aren’t wrong, it’s the thing that bugged me overall. It’s partly my fault, I didn’t think about VAT. Just wish garages quoted with VAT included, when they deal with the public it makes sense to give the price you actually pay. I’m super happy with it overall. Just a shame it happened .
6 Weeks... Here you have to wait 2 months to get an appointment for them to just look at your car lol ;) If there is major repairs needed you are looking at 1 year without car...
The air con is belt driven, belts off and pipe work I assume it needs gassing after that. My last car had engine out and to remove it you need to remove the pipes, I guess it’s the same but it’s an interesting point you raise that I hadn’t thought of.
10.000 to 15.000 ++ $€£ was what I would expect it cost... But I guess you CAN get it done cheaper but it seems like a waste to not do it properly when you have the entire thing in parts anyway.
Price is fair. Porsche charge double. Ive owned many Porsche new and used they are all trouble. Hence the 2year used warranty that was extended from 1 . BMW proper M cars I've had many no issues
Can I ask why you only had 3 of the cylinders replaced ? Did the garage tell you this problem can and will come again on the other 3 cylinders that wasn’t done ? And when it does you have to strip the engine down again. Also why didn’t they replace the IMS when they had the engine apart that’s the easiest time to do it and I know you would have the newer design but still it can happen and ain’t it better to be safe then sorry later and have that fail and need rebuilding again thanks to that ? I mean the bearing is only £150 and it’s a 2 min job while shaft is out when you split the cases. Sorry but if you wanted to sell this another buyer would be put off as you have done this very cheaply by doing ONLY 3 cylinders and I dread to think what liners the garage used and who machined it as if not fitted properly they will be scored again! I really wouldn’t have put this on TH-cam as if you ever want to sell this car porsche enthusiasts will want all 6 done and they all swear by hartech builds only. To be honest you would of been better stripping this down yourself and rebuilding it then burning money paying garages VAT and labour as that’s practically what you did and you could of rebuilt this engine by hartech with new liners , IMS , Bearings , and new pistons for £5000 all in and then parts to rebuild are about another £1000 so you have just gave money away from practically free and the car will not be worth nothing only having 3 cylinders done and any Porsche enthusiast will tell you that when you come to sell it. I know as I rebuild these myself I had the same issue on my 997 and 987 and rebuilt them both I have a very good machine shop who only charges £300 to do it and the liners are £1000 for 6 of them Westwood liners are great. Sorry but this must be the biggest con of the century and I don’t get why people buy Porsches and can’t work on them there selves ? It’s a enthusiast car and enthusiasts rebuild them they are sports cars and as such, need rebuilding every 100k if not sooner if it sees the track often.
Hi, thanks for the comment, this video was from a while ago but I do think I did state all 6 were done. The IMS was also changed as it wasn’t that expensive, labour is a lot of that and of course the whole engine was out. The car would have been way north of 10k for Hartech to do, I chose somewhere nearer to me that rebuild many of these cars with great success. They used steel liners and yes that’s controversial but fitted correctly there is no reason why they won’t be gone for many more years. The liners have a top hat design meaning they are going nowhere. I could jot have attempted a rebuild myself and was in a position most people are and that is to rely on the experts and pay labour and vat. The car is sweet since and I’m super happy with it. More issues have arisen but not as a result of the engine being rebuilt but more as a result of it being a 17 year old a Porsche and it being a bit of a pain in the bum. Thanks again for the comment, hope this cleared a bit up. Doing 3 cylinders would have been like you said a little pointless.
@@JoeTalksCars thanks for your reply and please don’t take it the wrong way. Just in the beggining of the video you did state they voted and honed 3 cylinders at a cost of £350 so I assumed you only had the 3 done. As for steel liners that’s good to know let’s just hope they used nickel plated ones. And I’m with you on that that hartech are over hyped years ago they was the best but now there is many people and technology has moved on and I think any engineering shop can do it now. As for people doing it themselves I have a few people in my community who go rebuild these daily they buy them cheap and repair them like myself I might add. I think to own a Porsche and not be conned is to do it all yourself as for instance the price you paid for a rebuild I have only spent just over £7000 rebuilding my engine and that’s with doing all front coolant lines and all control arms front and rear for £7600 that’s what I mean what you paid is a rip off and realistically I don’t know if your aware but you don’t have to pay VAT to a garage I don’t know if your aware of that ? There is a loop hole that gets you out of paying it and also they are not allowed to hold your car. For me I think there is too many people getting Porsches and not understanding they are sports car and as such command a premium to maintain and even worse if your taking it to a garage! I would strongly suggest you really learn to do things yourself as if not you are really going to put people off owning a Porsche when this channel should be able encouraging people to buy them. By making them seem expensive to fix which they are not if you do it all yourself and porsche is incredible easy to repair! As I said in total restoring my whole 997 including bore score , control arms and all coolant lines front to back that’s £7600 yeah and think I bought my 997 2S for £10,500 because of the issues but now think how much I can sell that car for ?
Is 10k really that much? Doubt i would be shocked by anything related to pulling the motor costing 10k. Watching the UK videos on Porsches, it seems everything associate with the cost to own and maintain a Porsche in the US are about twice the cost as it is there. You won’t find a decent low mileage Cayman for under 20-24k in here (Los Angeles) and the labor costs here are insane.
$10k is a whole lot. For the job that was done, no but outside of IMS & bore scoring, these are considered quite reliable vehicles. It’s unfortunately a roll of the dice without a bore scope and a thorough PPI
It isn't really when you consider the work involved but when you could only 12 months ago pick up a decent cayman for 11k its quite a chunk of cash. Not only that but thats nearly $14,000 USD so yeah its a big amount whichever way you look at it. We are very lucky in the UK as the prices of these cars has only just started to increase.
Damn man this sucks, I really think about getting a Cayman, but 10000 grand for refurbishing the motor?!?! I looked many vids about Cayman and I’m almost sure that one of the expert’s said that a new original motor from Porsche cost’s 12000 grand. Wouldn’t this be a better choice, if so much must be repaired?
It’s the fitting of the 12k engine too. That would push 20k to do that. I looked at second hand engines but the only affordable ones were the potentialy bore scored cars 🤣
Idk about your region of the world but making a video series like you did it cld wld be considered a business expense and you cld write it off on taxes or at least some of it
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
A Lotus with a Toyota engine is looking mighty good.
Yeah it does appeal a lot more!
Yeah mate, unfortunately when I first saw your videos about taking it to the shop for Bore Scoring, I knew this was going to be a $12,000 to $15,000 job. I commend you on doing it right instead of on the cheap and then selling it off. You did it right! You have an amazing car now, it has a brand new engine just like when it was new but better! It was very smart to do the head and all the other little internal things like chains and bearings, all of it. The shop sounds like they know what they are doing and didn't lead you astray. I know there will be a day when I need to do mine, I am not looking forward to it. But these cars are aging and they will need Motor replacements or rebuilds. I very much appreciate you showing your struggle on TH-cam to prepare me when it happens.
Thank you! Yeah it was never going to end well. I was hoping for something silly being wrong but the worst happened. Needed to share my experience:)
Yes, it is not that bad really to pay double for a car with what is pretty much a new engine...
I first had a 987.1 2.7 I very nearly bought a 987.1 3.4 with 58k on the clock lovely car but ended up with a 76k 987.2 3.4 I was lucky got one 3 years ago and only payed £16000 for it bargain at the time before all the price started going up , it’s a peach and a keeper , good to see your cars all sorted looks great
Thank you! So you have had no issues with oil consumption ect. It just goes to show some of them can go for years with no problems. I was unlucky.
Thanks for the update joe I’m in Leeds with a very similar car to yours apart from mine is the base model which now I’m really glad to have mine has 176000 miles on and apart from routine maintenance it’s driving really well hope you don’t get any more bills to spend that much just shows how much you love the cayman
Nice! those base models do seem to be the way to go I think. Thats great milage! I love a high milage car over a garage queen. These things are meant to be driven. Not only that but once you hit that milage the next 10k or 20k miles added wont even reduce the value.
Fair play to you Joe, that’s horrific isn’t it. Porsche need to really take a good look at these problems, it’s like they have just turned a blind eye. Hope you enjoy the car the now.
Yeah they call themselves one of the best engine builders in the world. Hmmm maybe sometimes 🤣
Youve got a great looking car that will last for years. 10 k is about what I expected. Dealer sold you that car knowing about the bore scoring issue tho. I would have gone after them
Sometimes I do think that but It would be hard to get them to accept even partial blame, if only the car smoked from me picking it up.
End of the day they are a professional dealer and should know to check, and not just pass issues onto customers.
@@JoeTalksCars Its trivial to look inside and see the signs of bore score... I plan on getting a rebuilt & bored out engine Caymen S bored out to 3.9 and calling it a "keeper"
£10k is what I’ve been hearing for a rebuild as well, and to be honest to have a great sports car that you know will be reliable for £25k, is that really that bad?
The rebuild also means anyone looking to buy will pay more because you had the work done
Good info,i own a 997 carerra 2 made 08 with 3000 swedish miles on tacho and may experience the same problem in future,from 09 it seems as the problem is solved,however i ran into this car four years ago and fell for its charm ,what i have heard is that it is very important to let the engine reach working temp before you rev it,i have even heard that it all depends on that you ignore that or to do your oilchange properly,otherwise i dont think this is very common
Regards
Rob
Sweden
Cheers Joe, your previous videos encouraged me to walk away from a '07 Boxster S that a VW Dealer in Mansfield were selling just before Christmas. I was really keen but Dave at Strasse and your problems made me think again. Now that I've seen your invoice I'm more than "over" not buying the Boxster. I will wait until I can afford a 981 (probably Cayman) sometime in the future. You, on the other hand, have a completely sorted car now so make sure you enjoy it.
Yeah it’s a huge risk buying an S. I would be all over a 2.7 especially if you can get the sport edition boxster. They are lovely! The 3.4 extra power is not worth it for the chance of bore score! Don’t be put off by the 987 Just go .2 or 2.7 car and you will be fine:)
@@JoeTalksCars Agreed, at 0-60, you gain a few points of a second over the 2.7 with the 3.4 but you will never notice that unless you do a track day (and still may not!). The 2.7 is still only a a fraction of a second (0.4secs) slower that many 911 Carreras of the same generation so why take the IMS risk with a 3.4. which is why the 987.1 2.7 manual has jumped up in value and now are often more than the 3.4 S version (and there are less of them).
Been lucky so far with my 987.2. I intend to keep the car way beyond my retirement (25 years from now).. that said, if I would have to pay 10k and it would bring me down the 25 years.. I would do it.. However, if I intended to sell the car within 1-3 years.. I probably take the loss and immediately and not fix it. Truly hope your 987 will last your lifetime ! Thats what they are there for...
I was really undecided what to do and as I never intended keeping it long term I was in favour of selling. Then covid round 2 came and prices started to go mental. I thought I had best keep it as the danger was I would not be able to get back into one of the prices didn't calm down.
One of the best adverts for getting a Gen 2 987 you can possibly find, either 2.9 or 3.4, it just isn't worth the risk with those sorts of numbers in the mix.
Agree with you on that. Don’t be like me 🤣
Man this is actually better than I thought. My mechanic estimated over $15k for fixing my 996 bore scoring.
With the current exchange rate it probably looks like the cost of your weekly shop 🤣
I feel your pain, I had a 2.7 Boxster (no issues) before buying a Gen 2 911 C2, it is a lot of money, but they are cracking cars and if you keep it for quite some time, and use it, you will enjoy it.
Yeah I think after this bill il be hanging onto it a long time. I need to enjoy it now. Not worry and listen to the flat six soundtrack:)
Hoping you can discuss what was actually done to fix the scored bores. My 987.1 which spun a rod bearing at 70 k miles is being repaired extensively because replacement engines are scarce and I had some track upgrades already invested. Will include removal of the aluminum bores and sleeved to 3.8l. New pistons and rods. Minor crank journal repair and other internal upgrades like modern IMS upgrade, etc. All that and a new clutch w/light flywheel ( car 100% track use). That bill is quoted to be 24k. Ouch but, for 15 years of driving at track events I’ve been very fortunate to never have a big bill. Guess that lucky streak had to end. I do love the car same as you do so it’s worth it to me.
Il have to try and discuss it in a future video but it had 6 steel liners put in, all top hat design so they don't slip. 6 brand new mahle pistons and loads of other stuff replaced. I could have gone further with the upgrades and reparis but where does it stop. The car is only worth so much. 24k is insane tho!
He who dares.. well done Joe. Have fun, safe travels
Absolutely! Thank you!
I agonized for a long time, trying to determine how I was going to get into my first Cayman. A 987.2 S was just too much money (and that's only getting worse). The bore scoring really had me hesitant. Especially the fact that I live in a cold climate, and only have about 6 months of the year to drive such a car.
I really came to peace with getting a Base 987.1, after doing my homework. And after driving it for several months, I love it! I have no idea how much more powerful the 3.4l is, and frankly it doesn't concern me. The 2.7l has just enough punch for me. And still sounds amazing!!
There's still 50 different things that can occur, and I could be looking at a major repair bill (some day). It's a Porsche....and that simply comes with the badge..
Yeah in some ways I should have gone for the 2.7. Like you said huge bills can still come, suspension, clutches and even air con repairs are costly. It’s a Porsche after all. Shame the engines are flawed in the bigger displacement cars. Never mind, it’s all good now and I can enjoy the flat 6 howl.
@@JoeTalksCars You've made the best of your situation (but costly). And you'll get to make content for quite some time now. Hopefully you'll recoup some of those fees..
@@JoeTalksCars Is bore scoring only an issue in the S model?
I felt sick for you when you said the 10k... Was more than I was thinking (7kish perhaps). It certainly has focused me on saving the extra for a .2 or a 981. Happy Driving
Yeah save for the .2 and knowing this you won’t feel bad spending the extra 7 or 8 grand Over a .1
Suspect a lot of P cars have that issue.....they are not "bulletproof" like many want others to think.....check out a wheel bearing on a 991 GT3......the knuckle is a 6000 track miles disposable at about 10k USD...each. ....makes a lotus seem brilliant.
Question for you: what did they say about the chances of this happening again later? Is it a design flaw (feature as my local shop likes to call these things...)? Is the fix a complete fix or a restoration to ground zero and another go at the Russian roulette of bore scoring?
Thank you in advance. Good for the world to know these data.
Had a 996TT and a known transmission fork issue in second gear cost 6,000usd to fix...and they were doing me a favor and that was a discounted price at a cup car sort of shop...dealer would have been at least double that. Known issue..... Then the coolant leaks on those cars...8-10kUSD. Then a vacuum leak......etc. I used to think Porsche's were bulletproof. They may be but they seem to attract howitzer shells instead.
That’s crazy! No such thing as a cheap or bargain Porsche. I was told they have rebuilt hundreds of cars and none have had further scoring, it does seem to stop the issue. The main issue with steel liners is poorly fitting them and then slipping in the block. I trusted this garage and they do have a good reputation so hear is hoping.
Ouch. Have been watching your videos and had expected a figure in that region. Given the extra bits and pieces you had sorted all I can say is I'm not that surprised. Hopefully as you say the value will rise- indeed in the time I've been watching your channel I would say there has already been an increase in values for these. Now at least you can have peace of mind its sorted and start to enjoy your car!
Thank you for watching the videos! Yeah it’s to be expected really, it’s a lot of work but the car is fabulous now and hoping with a bit of luck the value will creep up and reduce my deficit a little.
That’s a very tough pill to swallow. On the bright side, you’ve got many many worry free miles ahead to produce videos with. I would also bet your car will hold more value compared to other well used examples just from peace of mind. I bet in 20 years we will be looking at 987 values wishing more people addressed these issues when the cost benefit was slimmer.
It is a very good way to look at it. One day these things will be mega money. Last of a dying bread and the first of the Caymans. I would say its a fairly good place to put some cash. Not only that but I get to enjoy a Porsche while it appreciates slowly.
@@JoeTalksCars I have little doubt these will be surprisingly valuable cars in the future. They’ve got a lot going for them…a 100% Porsche experience, a true driver’s car, fairly limited production numbers (super limited for 2nd Gen & high spec cars of either Gen), as analog as you can get for the 2000s, major design inspirations & those curves, as much or more power than nearly all 911’s that came before them (applies mostly for S cars), reliability, etc…I could go on. Happy we both have a chance to enjoy this slice of Porsche history✌️keep the content coming and I’ll be working the algo for ya to help recoup the engine rebuild haha
FYI, as a customer in the UK it's the law that all prices have to be quoted to you INCLIUDING VAT where VAT is applicable. You would legally have been entitled to pay the price given to you prior to them adding VAT on top as that price should have already included VAT.
Wow that’s a little more than I would have hoped for Joe. But you now have a properly sorted car and hopefully a long hot summer to get out and enjoy it . Good luck mate 😎
Yeah it more than I wanted 😂 I am going to enjoy this summer for sure!
I feel your pain. I have a '05 Base Boxster and at 20K miles it had total IMS failure. I purchased car new, Porsche would NOT stand behind the problem so it was on me...that's a different disappointing story. I Installed the IMS Solution so now don't have to worry about it. With a problem like this, get it behind you as quickly as possible so you can look forward. Did you do anything for the IMS? Also, heard the Base models don't have bore scoring problems because the pistons are made of a different material.
Wow thats crazy! Porsche seem to be really bad at not supporting customers even when its an inherent design flaw from factory. Mine is a 2006 so they have the updated bearing. The 2.7 do avoid the bore score issue all together but I heard it was to do with the thicker block, the 3.4 is a 2.7 that has been bored out. Not sure how it makes a difference but It does.
@@JoeTalksCars
It is because they have a thicker block ? Not different piston material , I think the block warps due to poor cooling on certain cylinders .
We recently bought a boxster for mh wife , ended up going for a 2.9 gen 2 .
Could of had a 3.4 s for the same money but just thought it was too risky .
Hi Joe, I’m just about to embark on a similar journey as yourself. I’ve purchased a 997 gen1 carrera s tiptronic. Noticed issues with the exhaust and soot very early on. I finally had a borescope and 4,5 and 6 are bore scored. I’ve been in contact with Hartech and Strasse. Hartech use aluminium alloy cylinder replacements…..and do Strasse use steel replacements? If so, did you ask Strasse the question whether the same scoring situation would happen again given they are replacing like for like? Cheers.
Really? Not good! Yeah so they use Steel and said it wouldn’t happen again. They have done hundreds of cars and including their race cars and told me they had never had a car come back in with scoring
@@JoeTalksCars Thanks for the reply Joe. Yes, I spoke with Strasse and they were very helpful. I also spoke with Revolution Porsche in Leeds and Hartech. All very helpful, but I will probably go with Revolution. Best wishes on your 987 journey. Cheers.
Good to see you and the Cayman back Joe.
This is why there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Yes, you can buy a cheap one but it’s always important to have a war chest to pay for unexpected disasters. For anyone else with bore scoring issues I would always advise going with Hartech. They have the best reputation for scoring rebuilds and your car will be a better bet when coming to sell. Many Porsche drivers in the know will actually seek out a Hartech rebuilt car as they know they’re the best company out there doing these builds.
You are right. And in the US it's Flat 6 Innovations. They are like hartech. They are building my 996 c4s a motor now as I had bore scoring as well. It's going to cost me a lot more than what it cost Joe! It will be done right though and be much more powerful.
@@RicknWRX ln engineering is the gold standard in the states
@@Jack-russell103 Flat 6 innovations and LN are partners. LN puts the nicasil cylinders into the block for flat 6 innovations. Flat 6 does the rest, head work, motor assembly, tuning, etc.
@@RicknWRX ah ok. Yes you’re right
@@RicknWRX I think it would be absolute madness to get a rebuild without the nicasil linings. Well worth paying the extra for that peace of mind.
That's a big bill but then you have had a huge job done on a Porsche and if you had to have the same work on any other reasonable car, I am sure you would have had a similar bill. If you are intending to keep the car, you know what you have now and and further work will not be on the engine. Good driving and happy travels ahead for you now. Cherrs John
Very true, the whole process of hauling the engine out and putting it back into any car is going to be ££££ so just because its a Porsche makes it a little bit more. On the flip side its worth every penny and in a unique situation I have a car thats appreciating which I have never had before.
Fun fact.
Unless you have upgraded with newer cylinder sleeves, the scoring will all come back in time...
Mine has upgraded sleeves 😝
Really useful information here Joe. Do I go down the base model route or bite the bullet and go for a gen 2
Base for me to be honest. Knowing what I do now 2.7 all the way. Plus the 987.1 is better looking. Side by side it’s obvious to me.
Had the same with a 9974s I got in lock down and I did new radiators and all the cooling pipes
Yeah I am dreading that bill. Huge job but seems to be common on cars this age
Hi Joe
Yep a large bill but it’s time to move forward in the knowledge that everything is like new and you don’t have to worry anymore about engine problems ….. I always take my 2007 Cayman S to my local OPC for servicing and yes it’s expensive but so far they have never report any engine issues but unlike you now 😀 I always have that concern in the back of my mind 😄 …. Just wondered following the repair what warranty did Strasse offer? Hope you enjoy your Cayman for many years to come you won’t certainly won’t regret it 👍
Yeah that’s it, I genuinely enjoy the car way more now knowing it’s not chucking. 2L of oil out each drive and being embarrassingly smelly. Just hope it continues to reward me and not bring another bill! As for the warranty I can’t remember of the top of my head but I need to find out and file it. Obviously rebuilds will not be without teething trouble, it’s a big job after all. But so far so good.
Gen 1 cayman s generally will bore score most of them I did my research spoke to baz at hartech and I waited patiently till a hartech full rebuild cayman came along and I snapped and bought it nearly 4 years into my ownership and cost me nothing other than tyres fuel and servicing you just gotta do your research as on the internet people will have you thinking only a minority score etc but eventually because of the gen 1 engines and how their made and the cutting corners that porsche did they will eventually fail either buy a gen 2 or buy a gen 1 that’s been properly fully rebuilt ideally all 6 liners etc and someone reputable of course am glad you got your car fixed and sorted enjoy in good health 👌👌
I always thought it was rare and because only the scored and failed cars make it to pistonheads forum but I have learnt the hard way. The way they made the car is a disaster and a rebuild is on the cards for all cars. Glad mine is sorted and hopefully it will be trouble free from now on! Thanks for the comment and enjoy your car!!
@@JoeTalksCars yeh the unfortunate truth is eventually gen 1 cayman s will score at some point I waited a good year to find mine as I really wanted a hartech rebuild as the liners used are the same as turbo and gt3 engines which also use closed deck nikasil liners so porsche basically saved the best for the more premium cars and hence why the m97 engines suffer from so many issues atleast you got yours sorted and can enjoy it forever now without having any worries about the engine Going pop
I definitely looking to buy buy I'm either thinking 2.7 or 2.9 to avoid some of the issues
2.9 gen 2 would be the one to go for if budget will allow.
Thank you very nice video.. I was told it was around that by a couple great mechanics .. although I love the cars I’m now simply going Lexus rc350 yr 2015-2017 .. I love the looks of the cayman but I want reliability over all .. dam it love how the cayman looks standing still
The reliability of the engine is a joke to be honest. Shame as the rest of the car is holding up really well! sorry for the late reply 😉
Thank you for informative video! Are you based in Warwickshire by any chance? I have 987.1 Cayman S (2006). I am keeping an eye on oil "consumption". Currently it is 1 bar per ~370 miles (within Porsche's spec of 1l per 600 miles). Have much it would have been if you went the Hartech route? They do 3.9l conversion which should very fun to drive!
I live on the Yorkshire Coast. Thats high oil use, mine now uses 0 and i have done over 1000 miles. Hartech was £14k and for the 3.9 I might be wrong but it was £18k + The 3.9 would be amazing tho.
@@JoeTalksCars you must have some nice roads there. We used to go for motorbike rides in Yorkshire Dales! The cost always adds up more than expected by min £1k... Hartech do IMS shaft and engine block exchange. Not sure about the cost but I think if you can rebuild engine yourself it might be possible to get nikasil liners into your engine for ~£8k (including bunch of tools). 3.9l is a dream! I love the car and the way it drives and I wouldn't even know what to replace it with!
Great video, thanks for explaining. I've given the video a Like but that's because I enjoyed the content, not the price. Ouch! Look forward to more videos :)
Ouch! That's got to sting. Lovely car but 24k is 987.2 / early 981 money. At least you can enjoy it worry free now. Thanks for sharing the details I think that will be an eye opener for a lot of potential cayman buyers (myself included!) great video as always 👍
Yeah it did! Annoyingly before I got this car I looked at a gen 2 pdk and at 23k I was overspending. I set myself a budget of 12-15 and that was easy 12 months ago. Now I struggle to see a 3.4 gen 2 for any less than 25k and 981 way more. I agonised over this decision for ages, but in the end I felt like it was worth it. Just need the value to creep up a tiny bit and lessen the blow.
@@JoeTalksCars yeah i get you. Looking at it in a positive way Yours will be worth a lot more now the works been done. Did the garage give you any info regarding the base models? Do the 2.7s tend to be more reliable? Still looking to scratch that cayman itch!
I know someone who bought 2007 Cayman S with 130,000 kms for $37,000 Cdn from an Acura dealership. One week later, it had bore scoring and costed $30,000 cdn to rebuild. I’m not sure if dealership took some of the responsibility. I did see the ad originally and passed. Ended up getting 2006 Cayman S w/ 49,000 kms for same $36,500 as the bore score one. It was definitely Garage Queen condition, extensive options and owner documents. Owner had a newer 911 too. It’s been a couple months and the only fault is a creak on front left side, had a lift check done and it’s tight. The creak is likely from a coffin arm, there’s a boot on top bolt. Rubber boot might be cracked/torn. Bolt is tight as ever. My 3rd party warranty should cover it.
It’s a huge problem bore scoring isn’t it. Mine just wasn’t detectable without pulling the car apart and that’s not something a garage would do or indeed let you do before purchase. I just took my chances. Trouble is with mine as the symptoms started nearly a year later! Wish it showed early so I could have gone back to them.
@@JoeTalksCars Buyers don’t know about Bore Scoring because they’re too worry about IMS. 987.1 received 3rd generation IMS, which is unreplacable. It’s a sealed bearing with oil slash openings so chances of failure is like winning a lottery. I’ve been watching for Bore score symptoms. Blue smoke, sometimes excessive white smoke, ticking/knocking idle and high oil consumption. So far so good.
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the piston and the Christmas card, i would say that is about right to be fair, they have done a massive job and drive in and drive out, like i said before had our 05 VW T5 cylinders done and all that same work and not at a specialist and was not much cheaper than that.
Glad you got it safely! As you can see on the piston it was pretty set in bore score! Yeah for a drive in drive out service in that time frame it’s not too bad.
Is a lot to pay out, but i would say your car is now worth between £18/20k . have just sold my 56plate caymanS for £16k with 60000miles
Not bad, enjoy your car we live only once.!
Could have been worse and I tell myself that most times I think about it. The car was essentially scrap with a broken engine so I see this as a rescue mission.
If the repair company fitted steel liners then I would expect you to have issues at some time in the future. These engines are not designed to have steel liners fitted into them. I would be interested to know what type of liners were fitted.
They have fitted steel liners, as they have done many other cars over the years without issue. Agreed we don’t know what will happen but I’m not going to lie I was sick of seeing Hartech bad mouth anyone that isn’t them.
Oh mate that is brutal :(
On the flip side you have a stunning car and peace of mind :)
The thought of bore scoring runs through my mind every time I take mine out :*(
As you say, hopefully these cars are now at the bottom of the depreciation curve and (fingers crossed) will start to climb back up in value.
Look forward to future videos of you enjoying your beautiful motor.
Thank you:) yeah it hurt! Not gonna lie. It was killing me wondering if it had it, any noise or high oil use was sending me crazy. I can just enjoy it now:)
Joe, I think you got quite a bit for the money spent. You would spend a lot more here in the states for a rebuild. I wouldn't worry about having more in the car than it would sell for. You have a fantastic car now that will give you years of pleasure. The stunner for me is in your closing comments...having to rebuild an engine at 60k miles is just shameful. Porsche engineers should be embarrassed to go out in public! You should send the bill to Porsche for reimbursement!😉😉
Next video, hand delivering the bill to Porsche 😂 It is a joke isnt it but like you said I have a car that should be more or less worry free, obviously not a cheap car, other things will go but the engine should be sound.
Wow. That's a crazy amount of money. It's way more than I was expecting. I was thinking ok quote was 5k add maybe half that again 7.5k...... but to nearly double is huge. It is alot of work but woa. Really appreciate what you went through. Not sure of your financial status but that is a painful burden surly. I do understand tho, as I would 100% do the same if this type of thing needed doing on mine as well.
Yeah it’s been painful but fortunate to have had the cash. The car is hopefully going to hold good money for when I swap for another Porsche…one day 🤣
Don't know why people say Porsches are well built.. with all these engine problems from 996 to 997. 991 is still new and we don't know what other catastraphic failures are coming up
They are inside and out just the engines are crap 🤣
It's certainly a keeper now Joe!! 😀 Get a lot of enjoyment and make some epic memories over the next few years in it and it'll pay dividends!
100% that is the intention:) no need to worry about it’s oil burning issue :)
Hi Joe.. which specialist did your rebuild?
Hi, it was Strasse in Leeds. I somewhat recommend them. The work was good, the bill was misleading and I have later found out they reinstalled the old thermostat!
What a scary bill but I look forward to the upcoming videos. Makes me think the slightly leggy (119K mile) 987.2 Boxster S I picked up at the weekend was a bit of a bargain at 13k
Yeah a higher mileage car would probably be my go to. Cheaper and if it’s made it that far it’s probably ok.
also I heard its most common on first gen S 3.4 engine and the .2s are different with 4 oil pumps and coating material to fix this issue. the s always was less reliable than the non. Non s 987.2 it the way to go
Yeah the .2 are nearly unheard of. I think there has been 1 or 2 reported but I don’t know the details .
Honsetly thought that price wasn't bad. I'd almost look for a scored car cheap to have rebuilt. I've heard here in the States that you can spend $30k USD.
For the USA this is probably cheap. I’ve heard it’s so expensive over there to have this done
Great honestly Joe that's a big bill but hopefully you will now get a few years reliable motoring out of it
My 986 has cost me a small fortune in last year and its needs a lot more spending on it but not sure it's worth it as 986 values are a lot less than a cayman so at a bit of a crossroads now plus it's 23 years old so that comes into the equation
They can just cost so much can't they. Its not the same as a 911 and that is even more true for the 986. However look at the 996 911. I avoided them like the plaque to get this 987 and some part of me wishes I got one instead. Same chance of scoring but the value has gone insane on all 911 and mostly the previously hated 996.
In retrospect would you have considered putting the Audi S4 V8 engine. I know these can be fitted but would've needed a custom subframe and a different ecu. To get someone to do it would probably have ended with a similar if not less bill but would've ended up with an extra 60-80bhp. Weight wise it would've similar as the V8 is all alloy.
It's the same engine as the Cayennes engine so still essentially a Porsche!!
Nooo, I like the idea but my last car was an engine swapped car, nothing but trouble when it needed to be in the garage, ordering parts ect.
Sounds like a decent price. Here in the states that price only works if you do the work.
Really? Here it’s considered fairly normal
@JoeTalksCars certainly a premium is applied over here. I've been studying what I'm going to buy and what I'll have to dive into on rework. Cuz I never will pay for anyone to work on my rigs.
@@OwhyeeVdub crazy! Yeah it’s the best way is to get clued up on what you buy so it’s all diy. Wish I would work on mine but I have neither the time or the space. One day maybe
had similar engine problem with a 997.2 GTS. did complete rebuild, headers, valves, all cylinders with sleeves, pistons, water pump, oil pump, chains, etc. final bill 22k EUR. done by a German company specializing in fixing Porsche engines.
Wow! A .2 GTS. I genuinely thought they were immune to this. Lots of money but a 997.2 GTS is going to be worth it!
I thought the GTS cars had a completely different engine.
One wonders what the cost would have been had you used hartech. 10k is a lot of money. I am currently on 40k miles.. As the Clash sang.. "should I stay or should I go". What warranty did you get from Strasse?
I can't even remember what they said but I have the email somewhere so will check:) Has yours got any symptoms at all? You might be lucky
Hartech will be similar price. Always factor 10k in for a rebuild 😆
@@JoeTalksCars I do not want to tempt fate... The car was bought in August 2020 after much deliberation. I think I have mentioned before that the 944 I had also had some scary stories. I bought that car with 87k and it gave up the ghost at 115k (just after a service).
So far, I have only had to fill 1 bar in 5k miles and I was advised I would need to after having the engine removed for some other work.
We're still in the 5% failure rate. If it happens, it happens. I would consider a gen2.. Not sure I want to give up analogue steering. The gla has non analogue steering.. One can tell.
Wow. So is this a common issue with cayman 3.4s? Love these cars and was planning to buy one and sell my GTA which I have owned for 10 years and never had issues with the engine. Completely put off now🤔.
yeah it’s common unfortunately also. I’d seriously look at the 2.7 tho. Good power, noise and still a Porsche without the worry of bore score.
Sorry to hear that big bill. I predicted £7100 but 10k shocked me. I'm looking for a cayman but think I will save a bit longer and get a 2010/11 2.9
Yeah it’s mad isn’t it. VAT killed it, my fault, was a bit stupid to be fair. I would 100% hold on for a .2 or even look for a 2.7
Which cylinder liners were used in your rebuild?
Steel. With a top hat design so they can’t slip like older style steel liners.
Thank you, yep, not buying, you enjoy, 💯
Probably best thing to do. Maybe consider the 2.7 tho.
My plan is to go 3.8 forged and lower compression for twin turbos, If I’m dropping a fair amount for a basic rebuild I may as well pay the extra to sit at 6-700bhp
Wow! That would be absolutely staggering! The cost of that must be huge tho! I did consider converting it to electric but that would have been an easy 20k
I feel for you Joe, 6k maybe but 10k that’s scary.
Mad isn’t it:(
On a positive note, most of what the information displayed on your odometer is now false-you've practically got a new car in many ways. Thanks for sharing the experience Joe, I hope whoever sold you the Cayman receives some karma repaid at a later stage as well.
Yeah 60k miles but the engine is on 1000, it is quite nice to know that. When I do part with it somebody is going to get a good one.
Did you consider putting a different motor in?
I did but the cost would have been another 5k
Hi
I donot understand what is bore scoring but if now you have spent this much money, how long can it take for re occurence of bore scoring?
It’s when the piston coating wears away and scratches the cylinder walls leaving gaps for oil to pass through. In theory it won’t reoccur and it’s been great for 2 years now
That bill is huge. Should have gone with a base 2.7l or a 987.2. I know it's easy to say that now, but bore scoring is a really widespread problem, much more common than IMS problems in this car. I personally know of two 987 with bore scoring and there aren't many around.
Yeah 2.7 seems to be the way to go, the 3.4 is simply not worth the risk. Stupid how Porsche made them so badly, more common than they would have anyone think.
@@JoeTalksCars Followed your channel before I bought my little 2.7, was initially a little peeved I didn't go for the 3.4 after looking at a 3.4 for so long... You've changed my mind, but still. At least you know its solid now and have nothing engine related to worry about!
Hi @Joe Talks Cars I am 2.7 owner since April 2021 with 83000 miles and atm. have 96000 I am all ready spent for maintenance about £8000 I bought a car without experience🙈 a still need a new clutch and better wheels.How important is a pre inspection check. Thank you for your update and enjoy your car👍🤞
if its any consolation my 2007 2.7 with 75000 miles blew a head gasket = £3k bill (included also new clutch and starter motor whilst engine was out), so buying a 2.7 is no assurance of low cost motoring... this happened back in 2018, I still own the car and still love it
No, bore scoring is not a widespread problem! It's over exaggerated by forums. Yes, it happens and when that happens it's a nasty bill to fork out 🥴 but not every Caymans, Boxters or 911 (996) and 997 gen 1 suffer from it. There are also various ways to reduce any potential risks, such as low temperature thermostat etc...
my god I wonder if you could have had it re-sleeved at Hartech for this sort of money, at least u know it wouldn't develop scoring again if you went that route.
It’s been re-sleeved but just not using the same material as Hartech use. It shouldn’t rescore again. Many people had these liners in with 0 issues.
@@JoeTalksCars Ah sorry i had misunderstood that, in that case yes it is a lot of money but it gives you peace of mind and a very nice car that you can enjoy without worry! well worth it!
Some good content here. Keep up the good work 🤟
Thank you so much! Too kind
I can't imagine how gutted I would be to have to deal with this. That's surpasses 987.2 money and is getting close to 981 money. If I do decide to buy I'll just get one of those instead. The 981 is the best looking in my opinion inside and out. Cheap porsches are so tempting but not with the risk. I don't know where this 1-5% estimate if failure comes from but there are plenty of rebuilt 911s and Caymans on auto trader and a few guys on TH-cam have had it.
Yeah it’s borderline a 981. Not quite tho, it’s more close to a .2 which is what I should have gone for, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Annoyingly I could have got a cheaper one, this one was at the high end of a .1 at the time.
No such thing as a cheap Porsche :)
ih think that compared to a Hartech rebuild this seems reasonable. However Hartech are well known in the industry and therefore carries more attention tha other wise would be the case.
If i were buying a Gen1 997 for example with this issue i would personally have all the work done by Hartech at a cost of approx 10 - 15 k.
with these cars you really have to do the Maths before buying . a car with bore scoring is therefore only worth around 10-12 k max depending on spec etc.
Really surprised this never saw a class action suit. Less than I thought
Should’ve really. Lots of people have suffered this.
My sympathy to you Joe on that bill but like others have said years of worry free motoring in a very very good looking car 👍
yeah I am not gonna lie it hurt! But I couldn't be without the car so had no choice. Toyed with getting a Panamera but even they are not without the faults. The V8 apparently is prone to scoring believe it or not.
Thats not a Bill ,, its big enough to be a William ,, but what do you do , too much cash involved to throw it away and buy a Clio , so a fix had to be done , worth the.. cost well only you can answer that but its a good solid driver now so the cash cost will be spread over a longer time and looking at its rebuild as more of a running cost and its not looking just as bad , end result its a nice car and you know its sound. Thanks for showing the actual costs involved .
Sure is! Mad isn’t it how a car can cost that sort of money. Was driving more or less normally also!
Been looking for a good Cayman for ages, definitely off the menu now, absolutely gutted for you Joe, M4 it is 🙈🙈
You can still go for a Gen 2 car post 2009. Which i assume you would be with an M4 budget. The engines were redesigned.
I second the Gen 2 car suggestion. M4 is another great option but both cars are prone to have issues that cost $$$. The Porsche is more likely to keep/increase value with better reliability between service & repair. Food for thought
@@tylerhough9124
Best get my arse in gear and start looking a bit harder 👍👍
@@tomtimtomtim
What a bloody dilemma 🙈🙈
2.7
May I ask if you replaced all 6 cylinder liners for this rate, or just 1 side of the engine with 3 cylinders? I am sure you stated this somewhere in your earlier videos but I honestly forgot.....
It was all 6. Including the pistons:) a lot of work so the bill is understandable to be honest.
@@JoeTalksCars Glad you got all 6 cylinders re-build. While the bill is high, at least you now can have a piece of mind. If you can keep the car for a long time - not occurring other significant cost - then it still will be ok. Personally, I am a keeper of cars. I will continue to drive my 981 for as long as I live and become a classic car owner in the process. It seems to me that you have a similar outlook on your 987 - so over time the burden of the bill will go away and even from a pure financial point of view such a repair may make sense under a long ownership horizon, and the facts that cars in the long run only become more expensive anyway.
Ouch! Quite a figure there at £10k, but around what I was expecting in fairness. The thing is, you can’t put a price on a car that you have an emotional connection to (well, you can, but…), so you’re paying for your enjoyment and future miles in the car. If you feel like it was worth it, then it was. Enjoy!
Yeah to be fair it’s around what I expected accept being at the top end. Such a shame Porsche built them so badly from factory yet such lovely cars. This one is a keeper.
You have my sympathy. That's a big bill.
Yeah it’s pretty bad, nearly the cost of the car 😂
It is awful that a car needs that level of rebuild after 60,000 miles, especially a Porsche, but they will just state it is high performance to justify, what we all call Porsche TAX (which is wrong in this case because IMS is an issue that Porsche have swept under carpet - probably because sales numbers are so low, imagine a Ford Focus having the same issue, it would definitely have a recall!). Buyers beware - stay away from this pre 07 generation of Porsche unless IMS report undertaken (not just Cayman). The 987 is an amazing car and pleased you can still enjoy, it is appreciating in value too and definitely a future classic.
Yeah I did do the research but clearly not enough, I’d have avoided the car all together and gone panamera V8 or something. Gutted it cost what it did but it’s certainly not going to lose money now.
I've researched about porsche ENGINE bore scoring and it's REAL...
Oh yes very much real
I'm paying 6.5k gbp for rebuilding 987 3.2S. It was very early stage, no oil consumption, just a slight ticking on idle. The car is in the shop since August. I'm located in Poland ¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
Wow ticking but no oil use. Mine was the other way round, in the end on the way to the garage it got the ticking but it was more tapping, like a person inside the engine with a tiny hammer. Sounded rough!
Ticking is normal on 3.2 you are paying a garage for nothing… and they are taking your money for nothing and it will still tick their after it’s common on 3.2 due to low oil pressure when warm at idle! They all do it even the old M96 engines do it there is a oil pressure spring that breaks down and needs to be changed to rectify that which is £4 on the internet. So sorry if your paying for a rebuild all I can say is you are being taken for a mug and whoever is doing it clearly doesn’t know porsche engines.
The 3.2 cannot have bore score due to the liners being different and no oil use means deffinetely not bore score.
DEFINITELY, if you are already in for a rebuild anyway, replace with forged pistons.
Mine are mahle which are the same brand as the standard one’s looking at the markings.
Saludos desde Chile... tu video realmente me dio miedo...
How much of that was labour? If you'd been able to do the work yourself I wonder what the difference would've been. And, importantly, what's to stop it needing the whole thing done again in
As it should, it’s nearly a house deposit! 🤣 probably half that is labour but can’t remember of the top of my head. In theory I won’t but some say it will. Time will tell, heard good things from other rebuilds suggesting it will go for years so I’d like to think it will.
@@JoeTalksCars Well, I really hope you keep it and enjoy it for years to come. You can't lose money on something you don't sell. Be a shame to get it sorted and then give someone else the benefit of that.
Joe at leadt now you know your engine is good for hundreds of thousands of km. ...use good dyn oil change every 7.5 G km and youll enjoy the beast.
Yeah most have said that, just need to get the miles on it now and enjoy it.
Me again. It might be worth it if you could of got the cayman at 8,000$ to 10,000$ at the most at first purchase ?
100% it would have been better, it wouldn’t put me off buying a known bore scored car, getting it cheap and fixing it. Could be a good route to take.
Consider yourself lucky .... Cost for such rebuilds in North America are easily double what you paid .. I have found labor and associated cost for comparable work on your side of the pond to always be much less .. Regardless this is the price we way to enjoy are cars and well worth it !!
Wow that’s insane! Yeah labour over here is a little cheaper thankfully. Obviously going to a Porsche Center is a lot more expensive, maybe even double.
I wouldn't go back to that shop for repairs. If they truly are a Porsche specialist, they would have known from the beginning you'd be a lot closer to 10 grand to do it right. I can hear the disappointment in your voice, but you learned a couple things at least and now you can enjoy the car...as much as possible with a tiptronic anyway.
You aren’t wrong, it’s the thing that bugged me overall. It’s partly my fault, I didn’t think about VAT. Just wish garages quoted with VAT included, when they deal with the public it makes sense to give the price you actually pay. I’m super happy with it overall. Just a shame it happened .
6 Weeks... Here you have to wait 2 months to get an appointment for them to just look at your car lol ;) If there is major repairs needed you are looking at 1 year without car...
I was very lucky. Where abouts are you? That’s insane! At worst it’s a week waiting on your car.
why would the aircon need re-gassing to fix an engine issue - sounds like they found more than was actually needed
The air con is belt driven, belts off and pipe work I assume it needs gassing after that. My last car had engine out and to remove it you need to remove the pipes, I guess it’s the same but it’s an interesting point you raise that I hadn’t thought of.
I really wanted one of these. That's not happening now 😂
Go for a 2.7 or gen 2 either will be fine:) or have 10k spare for when it goes “tap, tap, tap”
You didn’t go in to what the cost was for parts and what was labour?
Il cover that in the next one! Sorry, yeah a breakdown would have been better. Parts were a lot but obviously labour is huge on this.
10.000 to 15.000 ++ $€£ was what I would expect it cost... But I guess you CAN get it done cheaper but it seems like a waste to not do it properly when you have the entire thing in parts anyway.
Yeah I guess I was a bit silly to think it would be less 😂
You really have made up my mind to stick with a 2012 boxster 2.7 cheers, on the bright side for you though you now have the car you want
Yeah that sounds like a good choice. I love my car but knowing what I do now, I’d have done the same. 2012 2.7 sounds just the car!
My Porsche Cayman 2007 rebuild engine was 14k !
🤯 crazy how much these cars cost!
i owe 987.2 2.9. 35k miles
how possible is bore scoring in the future?
The 2.9 are unaffected thankfully! Apparently providing I use the correct oil, warm it up right and look after it I will not have bore score again.
Price is fair.
Porsche charge double.
Ive owned many Porsche new and used they are all trouble.
Hence the 2year used warranty that was extended from 1 .
BMW proper M cars I've had many no issues
Yeah it’s just a kick in the teeth. Looking at the amount of work it’s good:) yeah I think il be going new next time with warranty.
Can I ask why you only had 3 of the cylinders replaced ? Did the garage tell you this problem can and will come again on the other 3 cylinders that wasn’t done ? And when it does you have to strip the engine down again.
Also why didn’t they replace the IMS when they had the engine apart that’s the easiest time to do it and I know you would have the newer design but still it can happen and ain’t it better to be safe then sorry later and have that fail and need rebuilding again thanks to that ? I mean the bearing is only £150 and it’s a 2 min job while shaft is out when you split the cases.
Sorry but if you wanted to sell this another buyer would be put off as you have done this very cheaply by doing ONLY 3 cylinders and I dread to think what liners the garage used and who machined it as if not fitted properly they will be scored again!
I really wouldn’t have put this on TH-cam as if you ever want to sell this car porsche enthusiasts will want all 6 done and they all swear by hartech builds only. To be honest you would of been better stripping this down yourself and rebuilding it then burning money paying garages VAT and labour as that’s practically what you did and you could of rebuilt this engine by hartech with new liners , IMS , Bearings , and new pistons for £5000 all in and then parts to rebuild are about another £1000 so you have just gave money away from practically free and the car will not be worth nothing only having 3 cylinders done and any Porsche enthusiast will tell you that when you come to sell it.
I know as I rebuild these myself I had the same issue on my 997 and 987 and rebuilt them both I have a very good machine shop who only charges £300 to do it and the liners are £1000 for 6 of them Westwood liners are great.
Sorry but this must be the biggest con of the century and I don’t get why people buy Porsches and can’t work on them there selves ? It’s a enthusiast car and enthusiasts rebuild them they are sports cars and as such, need rebuilding every 100k if not sooner if it sees the track often.
Hi, thanks for the comment, this video was from a while ago but I do think I did state all 6 were done. The IMS was also changed as it wasn’t that expensive, labour is a lot of that and of course the whole engine was out. The car would have been way north of 10k for Hartech to do, I chose somewhere nearer to me that rebuild many of these cars with great success. They used steel liners and yes that’s controversial but fitted correctly there is no reason why they won’t be gone for many more years. The liners have a top hat design meaning they are going nowhere. I could jot have attempted a rebuild myself and was in a position most people are and that is to rely on the experts and pay labour and vat. The car is sweet since and I’m super happy with it. More issues have arisen but not as a result of the engine being rebuilt but more as a result of it being a 17 year old a Porsche and it being a bit of a pain in the bum. Thanks again for the comment, hope this cleared a bit up. Doing 3 cylinders would have been like you said a little pointless.
@@JoeTalksCars thanks for your reply and please don’t take it the wrong way. Just in the beggining of the video you did state they voted and honed 3 cylinders at a cost of £350 so I assumed you only had the 3 done.
As for steel liners that’s good to know let’s just hope they used nickel plated ones. And I’m with you on that that hartech are over hyped years ago they was the best but now there is many people and technology has moved on and I think any engineering shop can do it now.
As for people doing it themselves I have a few people in my community who go rebuild these daily they buy them cheap and repair them like myself I might add.
I think to own a Porsche and not be conned is to do it all yourself as for instance the price you paid for a rebuild I have only spent just over £7000 rebuilding my engine and that’s with doing all front coolant lines and all control arms front and rear for £7600 that’s what I mean what you paid is a rip off and realistically I don’t know if your aware but you don’t have to pay VAT to a garage I don’t know if your aware of that ? There is a loop hole that gets you out of paying it and also they are not allowed to hold your car.
For me I think there is too many people getting Porsches and not understanding they are sports car and as such command a premium to maintain and even worse if your taking it to a garage! I would strongly suggest you really learn to do things yourself as if not you are really going to put people off owning a Porsche when this channel should be able encouraging people to buy them.
By making them seem expensive to fix which they are not if you do it all yourself and porsche is incredible easy to repair! As I said in total restoring my whole 997 including bore score , control arms and all coolant lines front to back that’s £7600 yeah and think I bought my 997 2S for £10,500 because of the issues but now think how much I can sell that car for ?
Is 10k really that much? Doubt i would be shocked by anything related to pulling the motor costing 10k. Watching the UK videos on Porsches, it seems everything associate with the cost to own and maintain a Porsche in the US are about twice the cost as it is there. You won’t find a decent low mileage Cayman for under 20-24k in here (Los Angeles) and the labor costs here are insane.
$10k is a whole lot. For the job that was done, no but outside of IMS & bore scoring, these are considered quite reliable vehicles. It’s unfortunately a roll of the dice without a bore scope and a thorough PPI
It isn't really when you consider the work involved but when you could only 12 months ago pick up a decent cayman for 11k its quite a chunk of cash. Not only that but thats nearly $14,000 USD so yeah its a big amount whichever way you look at it. We are very lucky in the UK as the prices of these cars has only just started to increase.
Yeah its annoying how reliable these cars are apart from the 2 major engine issues
Damn man this sucks, I really think about getting a Cayman, but 10000 grand for refurbishing the motor?!?!
I looked many vids about Cayman and I’m almost sure that one of the expert’s said that a new original motor from Porsche cost’s 12000 grand.
Wouldn’t this be a better choice, if so much must be repaired?
It’s the fitting of the 12k engine too. That would push 20k to do that. I looked at second hand engines but the only affordable ones were the potentialy bore scored cars 🤣
Put the bill away in the service history folder, forget about it, enjoy the car.
Yeah it’s a good receipt to keep hold of:) peace of mind now.
Well it's not a coincidence that 987.2s has double the price then gen1s
That’s exactly my thoughts too. Always wondered but this is why.
Idk about your region of the world but making a video series like you did it cld wld be considered a business expense and you cld write it off on taxes or at least some of it
It would be now. When I started I was not earning money so never set the channel up as a business. Shame. I’m