BORE SCORE PORSCHE CAYMAN 987 REBUILD, DO I REGRET IT? | Cayman 987.1 Engine | Bore score |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Do I regret getting my Porsche Cayman 987.1 S rebuilt and should I have used the money to buy something else. In this video I will talk though my reasoning behind the rebuild, my thoughts now the car is back and advice to anyone in a similar situation with a Porsche Cayman or even a 911.
I have owned my 2006 Porsche Cayman 987.1 S 3.4 for just over a year and felt like I should start a channel to document what a normal (ish) guy will find when owning one. The good the bad and the very very ugly. In this case it was the ultimate failure, Bore Score. Sometimes these cars will pop up on Autotrader for sale for not a lot of money and although it is temping to pick up a Porsche for the price of a new Ford Fiesta it is not without its pitfalls.
As I have already said I wanted to document the whole ownership experience covering everything from modifications, exhaust, performance upgrades, general running costs and the most important thing smiles per mile.
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Thanks for watching
Joe 😊
As long as you are happy, it was worth it.
Yup:) and I am very happy with the thing now. That noise 🥳🥳🥳
Prices are mad on these at the moment. If you keep the car for 5 years the bore score fix cost you £2k a year (anyone who buys any 10 years old+ Porsche should budget at least this amount per annum). Engine should be bullet proof now (at least for 5 years) so no further costs there, so hopefully not a lot else (potentially crossover pipes etc, brakes etc). That is still a cheap Porsche experience (all second hand Porsche will cost you good money every year), and I genuinely believe the 987 will retain values and continue to appreciate. I spent over £2k on my 987 last year but that goes with the territory. My man maths says that bore score job cost you £5.50p per day over 5 years. Anyone who drives that car would pay that every single day for the smile. Keep it and enjoy for the next 5 years. Loving the videos.
Thanks for the comment and helping me to further justify that bill. I’m over it now 🤣 I love the car and like you said it’s only going to increase now. Can’t see them dropping ever, how many cars can you say that about. Not looking forward to the other known huge bills but I guess that’s just the downside of driving an old Porsche.
Joe, good to see you out enjoying the Cayman. If it was mine, I would have done the same thing. Money well spent admit it you love driving the Cayman. Be well and enjoy.
Thank you! Yeah most agree which is nice. Makes me feel less insane.
Look at it another way Joe. People buy new car every day and lose more than that when they put the plates on. Just a pity you didn't upgrade.
Because of the brand, and indeed your love for that brand of course it was worth the large spend. Economics will however go against this. But most Porsche owners don't look at their car as an investment. I'll never sell my Cayman. I don't care how much its worth. If necessary I would re mortgage my house to pay a repair bill. Yet again brilliant video Joe, thanks so much pal.
Wow you’re such a Cayman fanatic, I pushed my budget and bought a 978.2 base and it remains the sweet spot, not over / under powered for London overcrowded speed camera infested 20mph roads. I love you passion!
@@MrRoyck10 Cheers pal thanks so much. Best of luck and health to enjoy your 987.2.
Thank you!! Yeah better not to look at it like an investment. Let’s be honest I can’t see them dropping in price and it will never be worth £1000 like my past cars when they hit a certain age or mileage. I can’t see me parting with this for a long long time. Il keep the videos going! Thanks for always watching:)
Hindsight I would have got a .2 but I really wasn’t thinking with my head but just my heart. Glad I’ve got it now and so glad the engine is sound for many many years to come.
I spent $31k USD (£23,000+) on my new engine. The 987 is special and obviously Porsche isn't manufacturing them anymore. Superior engine + superior car = priceless.
Wow! It’s crazy how big the bills can be! Worth it tho. Like you said it’s priceless
Well said Joe.. also have a Cayman S 987 ..same problem.... engine renewed now on the 4th year with the new engine ... and I am glad that i did not sell the car after before and after the repair ...you have the biggest problem solved .. so now its just fun ... and alot of petrol...
Nice! It’s painful to pay for it but look at what you end up with. A true modern classic. Did you get steel liners or something else?
@@JoeTalksCars well not sure ... the work was done at a Porsche dealer
You love the car as you’ve said and because you are a decent bloke you fixed it (didn’t palm it off) and now you’re enjoying it. I know it was £10k but look what you have now. Ive been with you from the beginning and I admire your honesty and sincerity. Looking forward to more content and possibly meeting up one day to compare cars.
We need to meet up! Need more variety on the channel. My god I nearly did let Phillip Schofield take the hit but couldn’t in the end.
This video has been so incredibly helpful ;thanks very much indeed. I knew that the 996 and M96 Boxsters could have issues but I had no idea that the Cayman generation of cars suffered from this as well. Your video shows that we really, really must have professional inspections when considering buying these cars 👍👍
Thank you so much sorry for the late reply 😉 I just bought with my heart and not my head. Shame but glad it will help somebody.
nice 24k classic car mate
The word Porsche and rebuild somehow are often included in the same sentence. Looking at a MX5 RF myself.
They really are. The best engine builders in the world, apart from when they aren’t 🤣
Get a NC MX5 and turbo it. Yeah, it’s gonna break, but &3k you get a new engine… highlanders!
Hey, I'm in the same boat. I bought a 2002, 911 996 with 79k miles. which has developed symptoms of bore scoring. I did as much due diligence as I could before buying, checked the car over, examined its history, knew all the pitfalls, IMS etc and still ended up with a smoking exhaust and engine tapping after less than 1k miles (3 months), of ownership. The private seller, a forty something, home counties middle management, rugby going type denied all knowledge, I even phoned the specialist garage who did the previous service and they denied all knowledge.
I beat myself up like yourself but then eventually accepted that aside from spending £360 + VAT on inspections on each and every car I went to see (I saw at least six 911's before buying this), I did all that I could and just got unlucky.
I'm thinking of an engine rebuild, I'm interested how you went from your expectation of £5-£6k to an eventual £10k (I assume including VAT).
It would be interesting how much of that figure was labour costs for instance. Also you ended up doing all 6 cylinders but generally the issue is found only on cylinders 4,5,6 on the right bank of the engine, (mine has been identified on cylinder 6). Was there scoring on cylinders 1,2,3 in left bank or did you just figure may as well do the lot since the engine is out anyway?
How much more did doing all 6 cylinders add to the cost for you, rather than just the 3 on the right bank?
I think in the greater scheme of things £10k for all the work you had done is not too bad, I leased a VW Tiguan for 3 years, it cost me £12k in payments and I had to give it back after that. So don't worry about it.
Kudos for not palming it off the next guy, wish there was more honesty in the motoring World in general when selling cars.
Thanks for your comment! Sorry to hear you have had the same problem! It’s so widespread and most forums will have you believe it’s rare. I was quoted that initially but on the first scope they could only see scoring on 2 cylinders. Thought I may need 1 or 2 pistons but hard to tell. Upon opening it, 3 were badly gone, replacing the set made sense, nice fully refreshed engine. Most of that bill was labour for sure, the car was away 4 weeks. It’s all the little bits that add up, chains ect. They also had to do some head work which added around £600, that as well as a new oil pump as that was scored too. VAT added on it came to £10k. Thinking about it for the amount I had done it wasn’t too bad, glad it’s done and don’t regret it. Least the car could be sold on guilt free. Sounds like somebody passed yours on knowing and I do genuinely believe this car was traded in due to it.
Joe, I can't remember for sure...did you have the oil consumption from day-1? If so, I think the PO offloaded a bore-scored car on you. Do you concur? Good on ya for doing a rebuild and not selling it. Well done!
100% it was offloaded. I’m not sure the garage knew as it was a high volume garage, cars coming and going and realistically you aren’t going to notice on a test drive, only when you hit a few hundred.
Previous owner i suspect knew about it. I met them once actually, said it was fine and no oil use. I’m not 100% sure about that but there we are…
I noticed maybe a month or 2 later, thought it seemed high but calculated within tolerance, my drives on a steep hill so could never check on a morning and put the fluctuations down to the way the car was parked.
As time progressed the oil usage was so high I thought the sensor had gone mad, 2 litres for every 100 miles was about what it took. I knew it was curtains for the engine then. Just shows how quick it can go.
Enjoyed the video, thanks so much. So sorry that you were hit with such a devastating expense so early in your P-car adventure.
However, I think you made the right decision, and I am glad that you did. Forget about the money and drive it. They are very cathartic to drive.
I have had a 987.1 Boxster for over 7 years and have loved every minute and every mile.
Thank you! Yeah it’s a shame but now I love the car even more. Don’t even think about future issues of bore score. I can just enjoy that flat six howl.
Would live to find a car that is bore scored at the right price and have it rebuilt. In US its $25-30,000 usd for the rebuild. Sure don't want to spend $25,000 on the car AND the rebuild.
Yeah I often think I wish I had known and found one that was wrecked and bought it cheap. All I’ve done is pay good money on the car to rebuild
You did the right thing keeping another lovely cayman on the road. Really enjoying the videos and your style of presentation. So many youtubers feel that they have to talk from a position of authority yours are much more natural and authentic. Keep it up 😀
Thank you so much! I try my best.
Look at it like this, you paid 25k for a very low mileage Cayman S with reinforced cylinder walls 😏
That’s how I tend to think about it now. Glad it’s ok. I mean it’s in the garage next week for a fault and let’s see what they find.
Seems that the best option would be to replace the Porsche engine with a Subaru engine.
🤣🤣 yeah a flat engine that doesn’t go bang 🤣
Getting a car scoped pre purchase is a good idea. But it doesn't really guarantee much. It'll only pick up scoring once it's got to a certain point. The piston coating goes first, which you can see without a tear down. I think the lower part of the bore which can't be seen from the spark plug hole may also go before the top part of the bore. Anyway, you could get a car scoped, acquire a clean bill of health and find thing is scored 10k down the road. The scope will indicate whether there's a likely need for immediate attention. But probably not much more than that.
Very very true. I’ve heard that to be honest. Not only that but most dealers wouldn’t want anyone pulling a car to bits for a pre purchase inspection. Best thing to do would be a very detailed check over after buying then return the car quickly if it turns out to be one of the unlucky ones.
Better way is to do regular oil analysis, but you have to start before you have bore scoring so you have a baseline...
Spot on advise most people are driving round with form of bore score even if it’s minimal .
Yup, I think most are ultimately affected. It’s when not if.
Good afternoon I am looking at a cayman at the moment I have a golf R I have seen a couple of nice ones looking at a Porsche specialist in Surrey called Cridfords there is an S on a 2006 for about £17995 .
My friend has a Golf R but loves my Porsche. That would make a great upgrade, just be aware of the higher running costs, Golf R are comparatively cheap!
Oh and sorry for the late reply 😉
I think the best advice I personally could give to anyone wanting to buy one of these cars…….is, do research the background……there should be receipts for any MOT failures in the cars history, if not why not?……and with using VCheck it tells you how quickly an owner got rid of a car?….ask yourself why did he get rid of so quickly………and the best of all…….before purchase get the bores on the engine checked by an independant reputable porsche specialist, there is also a mobile Porsche engineers who will visit a dealer and do a complete evaluation of the car plus bore scoping for about £400 or so quid, bore issues are one problem with the 987.1 they also suffer from a multitude of quality issues, gear lever cables breaking etc etc etc etc………laughably I gave mine the name German Fiat…..lol lol
Haha German Fiat sounds about right! Yeah the pre inspection bore scope is the most important thing you can do. Something I never did and learnt the hard way
Love your view about your car. I bought a high milage 987.2, bcs I want this specific car. The only things I checked bfr, are there any blue smoke signs, have the services been reuglary done...... as far, I'm very happy with my decision.
So let's check the oil level regularly😉 and an annual oil service in addition could keep our cars alive.
And yes, I would do the same for my Cayman 👍...... ofc with tears drop from my wallet 😂😂😂
Kind regards from 🇨🇭
.2 are Normally worry free in terms of scoring so don’t let a little bit of smoke or noise. Enjoy the car;)
Phew!
😂
Hello Joe, where did you have the engine rebuilt?
I shouldn't be surprised to see you here, but I am. You two are largely responsible for my insatiable Porsche itch that I unfortunately can't scratch after just buying my first house. I couldn't decide between a 987 Cayman and a 996 Carrera, and a house seemed more sensible at the time so I had to be a responsible adult. :/ Oh, well. Guess I'll have to start saving again, but til then I'll have to keep watching you guys. Hope you get better, by the way. Back problems are no joke.
@@drtm1718 Howdy Duderama 🙌 The house was definitely the smart move 🤓 I will be returning to the garage soon, doc asked me to take a month off wrenching and lifting things. Really cool to see your comment here, I think Joe also made the smart decision to have someone else rebuilt his engine 😅
@@ManinaGarage Awesome! Looking forward to what's next. I hope to see you enjoy that car once you get it on the road. I was the guy rooting for you to track it in one of your recent videos, if your health allows. I think it would make for excellent content to see you build it up to be a daily-drivable track car, just so I could live vicariously through you until I get my own. Perhaps also for inspiration into my own daydream build. Love your channel though. Keep on doing what you do!
@@drtm1718 Best of luck with your new home 🍀 congratulations 🥳
First of all love your videos! Thanks for commenting. Mine was rebuilt at Strasse in Leeds. Very well known in the Porsche world. Expensive but worth it.
It would never be cheap to run an old Porsche. But if you keep them for at least 10 years and you look back the costs of ownership including depreciation is suddenly reasonable cheap.
Yeah that’s it! Keep it a good few years and boom. It was cheaper than a fiesta🤣 that’s what I tell my wife too.
Even with the cost of the rebuild you have done well. In the US the left-side-drive version of your car goes for ~$35,000.
Yeah I have heard that a lot. We are lucky in the UK for now. Prices have been surging recently
While fixing the bore scoring and having the engine already dismantled, did you have the IMS-bearing checked or possibly having it switched for a new one?, a shame if not because the engine was already apart therefore it wouldn’t take much to do it.
The consequences can be catastrophic if the bearing blows.
IMS was done but it’s not a known failure point in this year thankfully. That’s reserved for the pre 2006 cars.
Im with you Joe, I loved my Cayman, your totally right it doesn’t make financial sense…..and it cant be seen as an investment financially, but it can be seen as an investment in fun and pleasure for you personally, and in that regard its got to be priceless…………have fun joe
Yeah for sure. I get a lot of fun and enjoyment out of it and it’s ok on running costs bar the engine rebuild. Hope to keep it a good few years:)
When you said " so I kept it" your face started smiling, you made the right decision just by the look on your face👌🏽
For sure:) I am so glad I did. A bargain for a car of this calibre.
Possibly instead of doing the research my route was buying from a porsche specialist with a good reputation. I know i might still fall foul but it is some reassurance
Yeah that would be my choice, I made an error. Never mind🤣
assuming the owner is dead set on owning a 987.1 cayman S or not will determine how difficult it is to decide on whether or not it was worth the rebuild.
if the owner would consider other marques the calculations would become too complicated and subjective to, IMO, be worth discussing, but if the alternative is either rebuilding the current engine or purchasing another cayman S of roughly the same year and mileage and options then a valid comparison could be pretty simply as long as the original purchase price was known and what a comparable car with very low mileage would cost.
i suspect the biggest loss will be on resale. the rebuilt engine's low mileage compared to the mileage shown on the dash cluster will not be rewarded by a prospective purchaser as it should be. not fair, i know. but that's the reality.
and i agree with joe about the blue smoke and normality. it is not normal. in fact it indicative of what is most likely a serious problem.
I was stuck as the car would be essentially scrapped with the way the engine was. So that would be me losing the 14k I paid and potentially selling a Broken one for 5 or 6k. I figured it was best to fix, if only to keep another Porsche on the road.
According to Hartech if you have a rebuild carried out using steel liners then there’s every chance it will score again. Having a Hartech rebuild with nikasil liners completely future-proofs the car and will help with resale value. Yes, is will cost more (approximately £12) but will certainly be worth it come through time to r selling it.
That’s what I read a lot online about. Hartech are so well regarded in the business and could well be correct. However steel liners surely can cope and are better then standard so I don’t see an issue. Time will tell I suppose
Helpful video. Did you ever investigate what on your car caused the bore scoring? ie talked to previous owners, did they let the car sit for a long time without running it, or start it often and not let the oil get up to proper temperature, etc. What is the cause of bore scoring?
No I never managed to find out. Seems a lot of it is like you see on the internet. Just lots of theories. Mine on this car would be a collection of things.
Low mileage, sometimes never went more than 2k a year.
Ran on 0w40 serviced by Porsche every 2 years like they say. We all know that isn’t right.
Being an auto won’t have helped. Driven gently it races through the gears and would be easy not to get the revs up when warm to properly run the car. We all know Porsches like a good drive!
Think it was a combination of all those factors and also luck. Bad luck in this case. 🤣
Mate I you are keeping the car it's worth it all day long
Yeah it’s worth it as she is a keeper.
Will probably have it for many more years now
Is your car not a manual transmission? Why did you choose that setup?
No it the auto. I don’t know really, wrote of the idea until I drove it. The Tiptronic is so hated I just thought I would try it. It’s really not bad, it’s no PDK but seriously it’s nice to drive. Plus where I live the traffic is horrible and I’m mad enough to daily this car.
Really pleased you are happy with your choice of getting the car fixed Joe.I guess most people would have done the same thing if they could.I love my Boxster dearly so know how you feel . Continued good luck with it mate .
Yeah I think Anyone that is truely in to Porsches would do the same. It’s a love affair and not one that can be swayed by the ££££. If it was we would have all jumped ship 🤣
Thanks for the video and information
No problem:) glad it was helpful
Glad your having fun in the car again Joe
I really am. Lots planned and so many years of motoring left in her
What’s the wife say about the cost?
Erm well she accepted it but sees the car as a lump of cash on the drive. It’s days are numbered 🤣
I am in a similar situation. My 2005 IMS bearing broke and destroyed the engine. I have opted for a rebuild but going from 3.2 to a 3.8 L engine.
sorry for the late reply 😉 did this add much more to the cost. When I enquired it was another 5k which was way too much.
@@JoeTalksCars no the 3.8 was no extra cost as they said the level of work is the same
@@steelydan133 amazing! Where is it being done?
It’s a hell of a lot more expensive in the US. I’m getting an upgrade to 4.3 litres as part of the rebuild, and it’s costing me 3x as much as Joe spent.
We’ll see how worthwhile it really is.
Really? That’s crazy! Mind you to go up to 4.3 which I didn’t think was even possible that will add so much more to the cost. The biggest you can go here is 3.8 I think
@@JoeTalksCars apparently there are a few Boxster/Cayman’s out there (with 4.3 conversions) running nearly 500hp!
@@I999-g2s wow that’s crazy! They must be very quick, that’s supercar levels of power for the weight.
Glad you're happy with it still. One thing I'd recommend you do as a protection precaution on your Cayman is look to get those radiators covered with a grille. I didn't hear or notice any perticular debris hit the rads on those front vents and one service was told my air con was gone and it would cost me £900 to replace the damaged rad if I wanted it working again. Easily avoided had I put some little mesh grilles I could have picked up for £40
Yeah I have looked at those as the rads are hugely costly. I’m just not a fan of the way they look. Maybe they will grow on me. Il need to see some in person I think.
@@JoeTalksCars there's a few different styles I've seen. The matt black mesh ones are quite discrete.
@@VictoryHand that would be good. It’s the silver ones that are right at the edge of the opening I really hate
Too much road noise.
Well, here's the thing. Driving a BMW 5 series, you can't tell whether you're doing 40,50,60 or 90mph from road noise alone. At least in the cayman you *know *.. :-)
It’s my rubbish microphone but that’s now sorted. There is a fair bit of road noise but who cares, it’s a much more raw driving experience than something like a BMW:)
@@aneildavisI drive old mercs and a E34 BMW. Zero road noise compared to the wife's 2017A3
Love the honesty Joe - if only everyone was like you!
I am still making my way through your earlier videos but couldn't resist watching this while it was still fresh so to speak. I'll watch the earlier ones in a different light now.
Two things and excuse me if you have covered these in a video I've not yet seen: firstly, do you think the smoke you experienced early on in your ownership might have been an indication of the bore scoring and secondly, did you buy the car privately or from a dealer?
Thank you! Sorry for the late reply!
I have been honest throughout my channel or try to be, it’s good to show my ownership experience all from the good and the very very bad. Yeah the smoke was apparent really early on but as every single person online says it’s “normal for Porsches” I just accepted it. Shame I didn’t do more investigations early on. Got it from a dealer but couldn’t fight that as I had the car a year before it needed a rebuild. Bad but not a lot I could do. The garage wouldn’t probably realise either.