As a( 92 year old with nearly 50+years in the Motor industry (ex MIMI ) this was a BRAILANT Video and having owned 4 different models of the Macan.Even gowing back to the early 50s when you used a Van Norman boring bar to enlarged the bore to fit oversized liners and using Hoyts bearing journals material to repair a scored Crantshaft this video was amazing. Thank you so much your visit to Hartech was a Joy to watch for a person who has seen the Evolution of ICE engines this film MADE MY Day thank you sincerely
All of these design flaws yet Porsche has never admitted their mistakes (apart from the North America IMS case), to me that really stinks of disrespect to their customers.
@@MrCaterhamr500 vehicle manufacturers rarely admit fault as it will cost them a lot of money to fix the issue. Issues like these can be missed in the normal development program of a car as the tests to simulate vehicle life of 150k miles 10 years are completed in around 2 to 3 years. Modern cars are even worse due to more reliance on computer analysis rather than physical testing.
did toyota admit mistake for the sh* ty engine block on the new Tundras? there is no recall and only replace the block. Everything from your current engine gets transfered to the new block.
Here in Germany, quite a lot of these affected cars are on rebuilt engines now. The survivors with no rebuild & mega miles/km have a few things in common; They are daily driven, Have the 3.6 or non-S engine, driven quite vigorously on the autobahns and oil changes are done every 6 months when the car goes in for its winter wheel swap. The advise I got from the old engineer i bought my 997.1 from was: Drive it like the way you should make love to your spouse. Regular and vigorous 😂
My 2.7L 2004 Boxster provided 154,600 miles of fun, including many track days. It was a CPO at Penske Porsche in OH when I bought it with 22K on the clock.
The point being: Use your car as it always intended to be, know when it needs maintenance, and give it treatment it deserves. Leaving it as a garage queen is the exact opposite of what they need and want.
Bore score and 7 years ago our Porsche forefathers brought upon us, oil consumption, sooty pipes, ticks, and misfires, and a dream that all 2000s Porsche sports cars are created equal.
James, that was a very impressive job of explaining highly technical facts and figures that require talent and skill to communicate clearly. Far harder to get a video like that right than a standard video. Well done indeed. I’m a Porsche owner and that’s the best summary I’ve watched on these issues. Well done and Thankyou.👍
@@EvoraGT430 Toyota always carry out proper testing and produce some of the world’s most reliable engines. Evora GT is a future classic. BTW my favourite engine is the V10 in the LFA
It wasn't design mistakes, it was severe lack of budget. The M series engines were designed in the mid-90's when porsche was near broke. They had to cut corners because they couldn't afford not to. The success of these cars allowed them to survive and then largely fix the problems of their earlier designs, which is why you don't see these issues in newer models.
They had Toyota come in at the time and help them to streamline their manufacturing processes and techniques. These items were those that fell through the net amongst massive change. They also spent all their money developing the 959.
Well that was fantastic! I'm a service engineer for high-end mass spectrometers so have a real appreciation for good (and bad) design and material choices. I love how the original issues were explained extremely well with accompanying video and still images, and then the reasons for the re-designed and improved parts are delivered with that important background. I leant a lot! Thanks JayEmm
They rebuilt my 997’s engine to sort bore scoring. It went on a pallet. Worth the money as i knew what was buying when I bought the car & all the cost back when i sold it.
My 2005 997.1 Carerra S now passing 121000 miles, unopened engine, OCI at 5000 miles, oil analysis have been flawless and consistent in my 10 year ownership
I knew of Baz many years ago as an exceptionally gifted engineer at Caernarfon. His Suzuki engines were incredible. His achievements in solving Porsche engine problems has cemented his reputation in the auto world. A truly remarkable person indeed. Huge respect!
@@ronaldroberts9556 you’re so right… re-engineering the existing platform creates a better powerplant that exceeds the original design. A V2.0 in effect
Thank you James, a very enjoyable and educational watch!! Loved every bit of it because it spoke to the curious mechanical brain inside. Learnt so much and it’s great to know genuine knowledgeable engineers still exist who use their quality of work to speak for themselves.
Great video explaining in understandable terms the design faults on these 911 engines which I have studied previously from information provided by Hartech, but this video crystallised and completed that previous research. Thanks JayEmm and Hartech. Yes JayEmm get a 4.1 997.1 for yourself.
Great video, my gen 1 3.4 is at Hartech now having a full rebuild & capacity increase, watching this just confirms my decision to spend the money is going to be well spent. I can't eait to get it back.
You’ll love it and it’s worth every penny. Slakker (Hartech’s US branch) built my 996.1’s 3.4 into a 3.7 and I have no regrets. It’ll take off in 3rd gear with no problem (learned that due to a failing slave cylinder).
I've taken many M96/97 engines apart. The IMS always had oil inside it and when changing the bearing you can see and smell how bad and acidic that oil has turned. I know some with the theory and I agree, that especially with all the garage queen cars with these engines, oil will seep into the IMS while the car is parked. This oil is cooked again and again and eventually turns acidic. As some of this acidic oil leaks through the IMS bearing, it washes the lubricant away and the bearing starts going to shit. I always advised owners to, if possible, park their rear engine cars nose high and mid engine cars nose low. This way the oil level is below the IMS bearing and oil won't seep into the shaft. I also agree that an open bearing, splash lubricated by engine oil, is a great solution. We would get many M96/97 blocks sleeved locally and us JE pistons, could go to a 102mm bore and those engines ran absolutely great. Increasing engine volume by 200cc didn't require extra tuning, increasing by 400cc we did send them out to be tuned. The Eco engines with 14:1 compression sounds wild, maybe they installed a methanol injection system. An early 996 with a 6-speed close ratio gearbox, stroked and bored to 4.2 liters would be a dream come true and only cost maximum US$25,000 if you found the right deal on a car with a blown engine. If you plan on tracking these cars, the extra 2 liter deep sump oil pan (US$800) is an absolute must investment or your rod bearing #5, followed by mains will take a shit. To keep bore scoring to a minimum use good quality fuel and keep those fuel injectors in perfect condition with perfect spray patterns to avoid cylinder washing and for Christ sake, use good oil and change it often. Great show, that Barry guy is smart.
This is a great post but points out many ridiculous problems on a production car. Porsche is liable and their reputation should be recognized as crap. The fact that you need to fix all these things is ridiculous. Sorry folks unless someone gives me one And the rebuild costs less than another similar performance car it’s a complete waste of money.
Thought I knew all about the problems with these engines but have learnt so much from the detailed explanations, brilliant! Also glad to see my 986 Boxster S doesnt suffer from bore score
I was first frightened to watch this video but, now I'm on cloud nine. Great video and great break down, Hartech is doing the Lord's work bringing new life to these modern classics. 996/986 is definitely my favorite era of Porsche.
I’ve been running a 996.1 self maintained for 7 years now. A few points: It’s a 20 yo car, I’ve had numerous issues to fix like worn engine mounts, exhaust brackets, steering pump hardline, ac hardline, heat exchanger, AOS. Things which were not broken were worn out like brakes, suspension, steering rack. Old rubber is old rubber, old plastics crack, old metal corrodes. Even though the chassis is galvanised, I’ve spent an entire summer cleaning and resealing a bit of surface corrosion. So it’s not as simple as “this car has an engine issue”. As for the engine, I’ve set aside £13.5k in case the engine goes pop. (AMS is cheaper than Hartech). But it’s not as simple as bore scoring, IMS, RMS. There are also bearings, chains, tensioners, etc. inside the engine. The important thing to note with any 911 is there is no top end / bottom end refresh- got a small issue? Got a big issue? If it’s engine related it’s the whole engine out, at which point a refresh is best given the cost. Usage is also key- the seller used his car sparingly and lightly. I use it every day and, when warm, driven it hard. Driven like that all the issues surfaced over the years. Context is key: go into it blind and it will be a nightmare, but understand what a 20 yo car involves, and you realise the active 911 community ensures these cars live.
They were badly designed in order to save money - it's that simple. I have a '94 Skyline GTR, I've owned it since '98 and it's bomb proof because it was well designed. I therefore do not need to set aside tens of thousands of pounds for when it goes bang!
I had a BMW E39 540i manual for 21 years. I put 55,000 miles on it and no major issues. It's still running now with it's new owner. These Porsches sound ridiculous.
I certainly enjoyed the 996 community when I owned my car. But after a while, you see through the Porsche mystique and see the 996 for what it really is: a giant money pit. I'll always cherish my ownership experience but I'm glad I got over the Porsche allure and went with much better Japanese cars from the early 2000s.
@@corychecketts I totally agree, my years of Impreza (96 WRX RA) and Evo 6 RS were much better than my 996 C4S ownership, far more reliable. In fact I had a JDM Eunos Roadster with over 140k on the clock that I turbo converted and it was super reliable. There this saying that German engineering is great but every German thing I’ve had has broken ie various Bosch appliances and E-bike, and the Porsche is a pain in the arse and not even designed well (long gearing is just ridiculous to have on a sports car)
JayEmm, More of this type of content please. Very interesting indeed. I knew about borescore, but didn't know the cause, or whether to invest in such an equipped car. Great work👍
Great video, right from the best in the industry. I have a very early (late 97) 3.4, which I bought 12 years ago. I did my research back in the day and Baz Hart was very informative. So I fitted an upgraded bearing, a lower temperature thermostat (From Hartech) and - touch wood - going strong at 123k miles.
Great one stop explanations of shortcomings of our fav flat sixes from an expert. Wonderful idea. And yes you should do in depth review of one of their conversions. I look forward to it.
I drove those same 996 cars in Feb 23 and the 3.7 eco was the biggest surprise of the day. It pulled hard even from very low rpm, a great piece of engineering from the team. The 3.9 conversion definitely brought the 3.6 bang up to date with an impressive power delivery right up to the red line and bags of torque where you needed it for fast road driving. The 4.1L which was part of the line up on the day turned the heat up even more and i was lucky enough to become the owner soon after. The team at Hartech are exceptional at what they do and are leading the way in keeping these early water cooled cars on the road where they may otherwise have been uneconomical to repair.
Another great video James. I've heard of Hartech and seen some videos of their amazing work. I have a 1999 Porsche 996 with a replacement engine that has the larger single row IMS bearing. It's a factory replacement that was done by the previous owner some 35k mikes ago. Great car, I've owned it now close to 4 years and it's a great all rounder. It's also ULEZ compliant, which is useful when visiting my brother in London. Get the hartech conversion 4.1, go on you know you want to.
Thanks for showing us the truth. I spent many hours on the internet and all the info I found said the 987.1 wouldn't suffer from bore score because it was the "old" piston design/coating. Oh well, keep driving it, keep the oil extra fresh and hope for the best. Worst case it goes to a new owner that has funds for a different engine as a complete rebuild is too much. Note...I've owned a couple Corvettes,(C-6,C-7), and it seems high performance cars tend to have issues as everything is taken to the max to achieve those results. If you're concerned about reliability buy a car which has been proven to be exactly that.
Great video explaining the situation within a half hour, that depicts what and why this happens, with the M96 & M97 engine series. The ferrous piston skirt coating being banned was the largest reason for the bore scoring happening and in the MA1/9A1 engine design they went back to what they knew from the air cooled and Mezger engine series. Only 5 since 2009 that they have seen with cold seizing and these may be from the change in thermal management that came in the 981/991, as I've not heard about it in the 987.2 & 997.2 engines. The 9A2, which came from the 9A1 engine design went to an Arc Plasma Bore (iron) and I've not heard of these engines having bore problems; but maybe they could have and I'm just not aware of it.
Excellent video, thanks. Never seen so much detailed information on Porsche engine problems in one place. The engineer's explanation on what causes and cures these problems was also excellent. My first Porsche was a 981 Cayman 2.7 manual. Current Porsche is a 718 GTS 4.0 manual. No problems with the 981 and none so far with the 718 GTS 4.0 after 3 years from new. I love Porsches but what a sad indictment of poor engineering on those earlier liquid cooled engines. This from a car maker that prides and promotes itself on its engineering prowess. I realize that the later engine types are much improved but I'm definitely going to pay for the extended Porsche Factory Warranty for as long as possible.
How interesting. I had a full rebuild at an independent dealer about 15 months ago and I believe Porsche bits and pieces were used. With hindsight maybe I should have gone to these guys as they definitely know their stuff. My rebuild including a clutch probably cost more than the car is worth but I’m hoping I’ve got another 15 years out of my Boxster 987.1 S now 🤞🏻
Dont believe this I've just watched a repeat of wheeler dealers where Elvis went to this company. Eye opening and this video is the same , thanks personally I think Porsche have alot to answer for and should talk to these guys that are sorting their engineering mistakes out . Shocking obviously Porsche dont do recalls they are happy to take your hard earned money and leave you to pay later. Alot of owners wont be watching this cause they have money to waste and keep going back to dealer that will have owners pants down . Porsche dont ever think about making another car without talking to the professional and sack your so called development team. 😂 excellent video many thanks. I will be contacting hart❤
An informative and well balanced analysis, James. I bought my 3.4 996 C2 knowing all that could go wrong (and how to deal with it if it does), it had the IMS and RMS done along with a new clutch shortly before purchase, so far all is good. There is however a tiny little bit of me is still hoping for a cylinder bore issue to rear it's head, only so that I have a good enough excuse to visit Hartech for a set of 3.7 pistons and liners... Keep up the great content 👍
Spot on. I absolutely love my 996.2 C2. Without fail it makes me smile every time I drive it. If I need a lift I just take it for a spin, it’s super reliable in that sense and I can’t see myself ever selling it. If one day it were to go BANG I’d just take it to Hartech and make it even better🤷🏻♂️
Great vid James! And yes, a long review would be awesome! All of us Porsche owners have one eye on Hartec for when the inevitable happens, ( and a credit card quivering with fear for when it does!)
I have a 997.1 C2S which had a Harlech rebuild at 80,000. We are now just past 165,000. I know I’m tempting fate but this engine is sooooooo sweet and has been amazing. Hartech did a wonderful job.
A great video, informative and superbly presented. It's convinced me to definitely not buy a Porsche, though what Hartech can do is amazing in giving these engines a new life.
These small companies don't have buildings filled with marketing people or focus groups with their heads stuck in some text book going " we think more screens, more driver aids, more fake engine sounds". Its just a bunch of clever, proper petrol heads doing whatever they want, and you know what, AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY'RE TAKING THE BIG MANUFACTURERS TO SCHOOL......BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It goes against the anecdotes I grew up hearing about British engineering being substandard compared to German engineering. I guess in this case the tables are turned.
I love the styling. I grew up lusting after the Stratos and the Esprit, so I guess I am a sucker for a wedge. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy your videos.
Enjoy and appreciate your videos. Yep, you should get a 996.2 3.6 and get the engine rebuilt to a 4.1 and do a review. The 996.2 is an excellent car with a classic look and handling feel. Best bargain in the sports car world, but not for long thanks to the aftermarket parts and solutions that keep being developed to keep these babies running strong. Everybody will want one.
Great video 👍 Imagine if Lotus had suffered similar design flaws 🤷♂️the British automotive media have a lot to answer for in how these two brands are perceived.
What a great video. Very informative. I own a 2006 987.1 S (3.2) and bought it over a later car for exactly the reasons in your table (interestingly the table doesn't mention 3.2 litre cars with the larger IMS circa 2005/55 and 2006/06). Cast pistons, flexible RMS, larger IMS and no bore score (and 360 quid road tax pre-April 06), known as the 'goldilocks 987'. It's been an amazing car for the past 3 years or so. Yes I'd love a 911 but given the aforementioned issues won't be getting rid anytime soon given the Boxster has cost me under £15k in total and done almost 20k miles with very little trouble.
From our "not a lot of people know that department" - the 2006 Boxster S does not have IMS or bore score problems as it has an improved bearing AND cast pistons so is essentially immune. This nice sweet spot does NOT extend to the 2006 Cayman.
@@warrenblacking , exactly what I found out. I then bought a 2006 Boxster S with the large IMS bearing. Now this bearing has gone wrong and I have a lot of metal particles in the filter. The engine has to be rebuilt! So never be to sure. 67000 miles and complete service history….
Great and informative chat 🙂 Sort of explained my own turmoil searching for my one last attempt to scratch that 911 itch……. and why I went safe/silly and bought a 2001 996 TT coupe……. without your beloved sunroof, with my choice of tiptronic, which I am very pleased with……. Anyhow, you can judge my taste on Sunday in the park 🙂🇬🇧
JAY, once again, great video, congrats. but now its time to buy a 986.2 S 3.2 and go to hartech for the 3.7 conversion. everyone wants to see an old boxster and what they capable of doing. there are so many boxsters on the road in europe.
Really nice breakdown of IMS and RMS issues. IMS has been often overblown. By buying 06 onwards you should be ok. 05 tricky year as IMS could be either a bigger reliable bearing or the smaller single row. Jay's summary of bore scoring risk for all the models half way through the video is spot on.... lot's of reasons why, casting issues, oiling, pistons cast (better) than forged, bore size, v long service intervals, cold climate, idling without driving and much more. Porsche Club America have 4 hours of videos to scare you. We have to remember these engines are two decades old. Sooty tail pipe and tapping are late signs. Having engine scoped before is advised but you'll need to approach bores from below.....I'm not sure all sellers will agree to this. Lot's of other things from air oil separators, corroded cross over pipes, clutches. Own a 08 Boxter 2.7 and IMO they sound better than 911 Cabriolet. Whilst they're are a few around you can be picky. 6k miles in mine last year nd I love the car. I prefer the drive of 987.1, exhaust tone and front but 987.2 are less common and command a premium. These are wonderful cars and IMO the 911 987.1 was the prettiest 911.
Great video which properly explains the issues which even I understand. Before buying a 986S I spent ages trying to find 'realistic' info on their problems. Turns out the internet will have you believe these cars will blow up as soon as you turn the key. It's not true, and statistically the percentages are very low of there being any issues. I sold my Boxster last year. No mechanical issues whatsoever, but I realised rust was starting to appear somewhere unexpected and I wanted something else by then.
I bought a 2004 986S (facelift with the improved engine) in 2017 with 90k on the clock and spoke to 2 well-known independent specialists as well as 2 OPCs, and none of them had seen a single case of IMS failure in the last 10 years. They all strongly advised not to waste £3k on an IMS change (40% of my cars value) on old models like the 986 and 996 as, if your car was affected, the original bearing would’ve long gone by now and you’ve now far more expensive things to potentially worry about, such as gearbox failure.
I Worked on Air/Oil Cooled Engines And They Suffered From Bore Scoring A Lot More Than a Water Cooled Ever Did ,Its To Do With The Heating Up Or Not Before Loading the Engine,Cooling down After Use,Oil Level And How Often its Changed and the Correct oil or Not and Loads More To Do With Differing Materials Used and How Quickly They Exspand etc.
What a great and highly informative video. If I had a Porsche with engine issues, this place in question, is for sure, the place I'd take it. Also, if we're looking at around £12000 for a major rebuild (and you could afford it), to spend an extre £3000 for an increased swept volume, seems a very tempting offer! It would make it all worth the effort, and itd drive noticeably better, and longer than ever!
+1. I’ve a low mileage & well maintained 996.2. It feels like a new car yet, in the unlikely event I ever wear out the engine, there are terrific opportunities at Hartech to soften the bow.,
The issue is that’s plus VAT so you are nearly spending the value of the car all over again, and will not get much back at all. I don’t know many folk that can afford to lose £15,0000
Hartech seem like an impressive engine builder. Ten years ago I was driving a 78 911SC and liked it, but when the front torsion bar failed and you could only buy used bars I figured I'd pass it on to someone who was more suicidal. I did like Porsche's and the water cooled ones were getting into my price range. When I did my homework I just wasn't satisfied with "well they don't ALL fail". What did I do? Well I bought an 02 Maserati Spyder with a manual transmission. The Maserati Ferrari M136 engine doesn't fail. Cheap, fabulous car.
@MrCaterhamr500 I've had both the S and the base, the gearing is looong in both and you won't really notice the marginal difference. It's the kind of thing that is easy to spot on paper, nearly impossible to perceived in the real world. The base is tons of fun and it makes you work a little more for the performance by revving it out (which is something I love as a former S2000 owner). Finding a 6-speed base is extremely rare and you'll pay a premium for it, and it's totally not worth it.
@@IronicTonic8 I agree that the gearing is still long but the gap between ratios is better on a six speed, I’ve owned and tracked both, the six speed IS better when driven properly.
Very educational, thank you. I previously owned a 997.2. It was around £8k more than a 997.1 but worth every penny for the improved engine and other updates, plus it was 3 years newer.
I own a 987.1 2.7 2006. 118 k, with mods. I change the oil with hi silicone racing oil every 5 k. NOT one engine issue since I bought it in 2007! Car runs awesome. Had it up to 135 mph the other day (yea, once a year. LOL). Not one hiccup! Stayed right with that Mustang GT!
Allowing Julien to talk on camera, was a very, very good idea. Engaging, comfortable and clearly confident in what he's saying!
I actually agree
@@ftboomer1 actually came here to comment similar actually
He was brilliant hey! I love listening to a real experienced expert in their field.
As a( 92 year old with nearly 50+years in the Motor industry (ex MIMI ) this was a BRAILANT Video and having owned 4 different models of the Macan.Even gowing back to the early 50s when you used a Van Norman boring bar to enlarged the bore to fit oversized liners and using Hoyts bearing journals material to repair a scored Crantshaft this video was amazing. Thank you so much your visit to Hartech was a Joy to watch for a person who has seen the Evolution of ICE engines this film MADE MY Day thank you sincerely
This man is giving a college lecture on engine design for Porsche engineers ! Increadible! Brilliant!
Agree but why incredible?
Hartech are simply the best at dealing with these (shonky) engines. Would love to see a 4.1 996 test.
All of these design flaws yet Porsche has never admitted their mistakes (apart from the North America IMS case), to me that really stinks of disrespect to their customers.
@@MrCaterhamr500 vehicle manufacturers rarely admit fault as it will cost them a lot of money to fix the issue. Issues like these can be missed in the normal development program of a car as the tests to simulate vehicle life of 150k miles 10 years are completed in around 2 to 3 years. Modern cars are even worse due to more reliance on computer analysis rather than physical testing.
did toyota admit mistake for the sh* ty engine block on the new Tundras? there is no recall and only replace the block. Everything from your current engine gets transfered to the new block.
@@PatricioGarcia1973 How can your compare a basic Tundra and mythical cars like contemporary 911 that have been fooling people for years.
@@vikos78 because they are both cars, thats how you compare
@@malcolmn.5222 You make no sense. They are not comparable from the main metric that is price
Here in Germany, quite a lot of these affected cars are on rebuilt engines now.
The survivors with no rebuild & mega miles/km have a few things in common; They are daily driven, Have the 3.6 or non-S engine, driven quite vigorously on the autobahns and oil changes are done every 6 months when the car goes in for its winter wheel swap.
The advise I got from the old engineer i bought my 997.1 from was: Drive it like the way you should make love to your spouse. Regular and vigorous 😂
Similar story with Ducati motorbikes, the ones that fall apart are frequently the ones which don't get used enough
@@chrisdavidson911 hence the “Italian tuneup”
drive it like you stole it
My 2.7L 2004 Boxster provided 154,600 miles of fun, including many track days. It was a CPO at Penske Porsche in OH when I bought it with 22K on the clock.
The point being: Use your car as it always intended to be, know when it needs maintenance, and give it treatment it deserves. Leaving it as a garage queen is the exact opposite of what they need and want.
Bore score and 7 years ago our Porsche forefathers brought upon us, oil consumption, sooty pipes, ticks, and misfires, and a dream that all 2000s Porsche sports cars are created equal.
*poorly.
Haha nice
Dang, you beat me to it!
And all intermediate shafts not equal
@@trevorlane this was pure genius …
James, that was a very impressive job of explaining highly technical facts and figures that require talent and skill to communicate clearly. Far harder to get a video like that right than a standard video. Well done indeed. I’m a Porsche owner and that’s the best summary I’ve watched on these issues. Well done and Thankyou.👍
Can’t believe a company like Porsche made so many design mistakes on these engines
Yet people still decry Toyota-engined Lotus cars.......
@@EvoraGT430 Toyota always carry out proper testing and produce some of the world’s most reliable engines. Evora GT is a future classic. BTW my favourite engine is the V10 in the LFA
It wasn't design mistakes, it was severe lack of budget. The M series engines were designed in the mid-90's when porsche was near broke. They had to cut corners because they couldn't afford not to. The success of these cars allowed them to survive and then largely fix the problems of their earlier designs, which is why you don't see these issues in newer models.
They had Toyota come in at the time and help them to streamline their manufacturing processes and techniques. These items were those that fell through the net amongst massive change. They also spent all their money developing the 959.
Folks, it was bad design. Period. Stop making excuses for Porsche. Yes they've corrected it now, but they should be called out when they get it wrong.
I have a fresh built 4.1 hartech 997.1 .. 389bhp and 353ftlb, and I can testify, it is absolutely PERFECT for our B roads .. absolutely sublime!!
How much was the work? That's what I'd do to mine if I had the dreaded issue...
Hartech rebuilt my 3.8 carrera S to a 4.1 and its fantastic,loads of torque.These guy's really know what there doing 100%
Well that was fantastic!
I'm a service engineer for high-end mass spectrometers so have a real appreciation for good (and bad) design and material choices. I love how the original issues were explained extremely well with accompanying video and still images, and then the reasons for the re-designed and improved parts are delivered with that important background. I leant a lot! Thanks JayEmm
IMS Failure: : .... It's the very best IMS failure video description - -bearing improvement I've ever encountered.
They rebuilt my 997’s engine to sort bore scoring. It went on a pallet.
Worth the money as i knew what was buying when I bought the car & all the cost back when i sold it.
My 2005 997.1 Carerra S now passing 121000 miles, unopened engine, OCI at 5000 miles, oil analysis have been flawless and consistent in my 10 year ownership
I knew of Baz many years ago as an exceptionally gifted engineer at Caernarfon. His Suzuki engines were incredible. His achievements in solving Porsche engine problems has cemented his reputation in the auto world. A truly remarkable person indeed. Huge respect!
@@ronaldroberts9556 you’re so right… re-engineering the existing platform creates a better powerplant that exceeds the original design. A V2.0 in effect
Thank you James, a very enjoyable and educational watch!! Loved every bit of it because it spoke to the curious mechanical brain inside. Learnt so much and it’s great to know genuine knowledgeable engineers still exist who use their quality of work to speak for themselves.
Had my 3.8 C4S Cab rebuilt and converted to 4.1 last year with Hartech. Very happy with the results. Pulls really well through the manual gears.
It seems James' shirt has also been a victim of bore scoring
More like pie feasting
That video deserves a lot more than 110k views.
Great video explaining in understandable terms the design faults on these 911 engines which I have studied previously from information provided by Hartech, but this video crystallised and completed that previous research. Thanks JayEmm and Hartech. Yes JayEmm get a 4.1 997.1 for yourself.
Great video, my gen 1 3.4 is at Hartech now having a full rebuild & capacity increase, watching this just confirms my decision to spend the money is going to be well spent. I can't eait to get it back.
You’ll love it and it’s worth every penny. Slakker (Hartech’s US branch) built my 996.1’s 3.4 into a 3.7 and I have no regrets. It’ll take off in 3rd gear with no problem (learned that due to a failing slave cylinder).
Truly one of the best channels on Utube James. Great video. I'll be saving this for future reference 👌👍
I've taken many M96/97 engines apart. The IMS always had oil inside it and when changing the bearing you can see and smell how bad and acidic that oil has turned. I know some with the theory and I agree, that especially with all the garage queen cars with these engines, oil will seep into the IMS while the car is parked. This oil is cooked again and again and eventually turns acidic. As some of this acidic oil leaks through the IMS bearing, it washes the lubricant away and the bearing starts going to shit. I always advised owners to, if possible, park their rear engine cars nose high and mid engine cars nose low. This way the oil level is below the IMS bearing and oil won't seep into the shaft. I also agree that an open bearing, splash lubricated by engine oil, is a great solution.
We would get many M96/97 blocks sleeved locally and us JE pistons, could go to a 102mm bore and those engines ran absolutely great. Increasing engine volume by 200cc didn't require extra tuning, increasing by 400cc we did send them out to be tuned.
The Eco engines with 14:1 compression sounds wild, maybe they installed a methanol injection system. An early 996 with a 6-speed close ratio gearbox, stroked and bored to 4.2 liters would be a dream come true and only cost maximum US$25,000 if you found the right deal on a car with a blown engine.
If you plan on tracking these cars, the extra 2 liter deep sump oil pan (US$800) is an absolute must investment or your rod bearing #5, followed by mains will take a shit. To keep bore scoring to a minimum use good quality fuel and keep those fuel injectors in perfect condition with perfect spray patterns to avoid cylinder washing and for Christ sake, use good oil and change it often.
Great show, that Barry guy is smart.
This is a great post but points out many ridiculous problems on a production car. Porsche is liable and their reputation should be recognized as crap. The fact that you need to fix all these things is ridiculous. Sorry folks unless someone gives me one And the rebuild costs less than another similar performance car it’s a complete waste of money.
This was a brilliant video. Thank you for taking the time and energy to make such an in-depth walk through.
Thought I knew all about the problems with these engines but have learnt so much from the detailed explanations, brilliant! Also glad to see my 986 Boxster S doesnt suffer from bore score
Big Lee is the man saved me from a botched effort my a cowboy from paisley Scotland thanks Lee
4.1 is a must, can’t leave the middle gen out. Great video!
Fantastic piece! Thank you for adding solid info to the Porsche community's knowledge base, and helping to grow that. We need more of this.
I was first frightened to watch this video but, now I'm on cloud nine. Great video and great break down, Hartech is doing the Lord's work bringing new life to these modern classics. 996/986 is definitely my favorite era of Porsche.
I’ve been running a 996.1 self maintained for 7 years now. A few points: It’s a 20 yo car, I’ve had numerous issues to fix like worn engine mounts, exhaust brackets, steering pump hardline, ac hardline, heat exchanger, AOS. Things which were not broken were worn out like brakes, suspension, steering rack. Old rubber is old rubber, old plastics crack, old metal corrodes. Even though the chassis is galvanised, I’ve spent an entire summer cleaning and resealing a bit of surface corrosion. So it’s not as simple as “this car has an engine issue”. As for the engine, I’ve set aside £13.5k in case the engine goes pop. (AMS is cheaper than Hartech). But it’s not as simple as bore scoring, IMS, RMS. There are also bearings, chains, tensioners, etc. inside the engine. The important thing to note with any 911 is there is no top end / bottom end refresh- got a small issue? Got a big issue? If it’s engine related it’s the whole engine out, at which point a refresh is best given the cost. Usage is also key- the seller used his car sparingly and lightly. I use it every day and, when warm, driven it hard. Driven like that all the issues surfaced over the years. Context is key: go into it blind and it will be a nightmare, but understand what a 20 yo car involves, and you realise the active 911 community ensures these cars live.
They were badly designed in order to save money - it's that simple. I have a '94 Skyline GTR, I've owned it since '98 and it's bomb proof because it was well designed. I therefore do not need to set aside tens of thousands of pounds for when it goes bang!
Sound like expensive money pits to me, I prefer the earlier cars.
I had a BMW E39 540i manual for 21 years. I put 55,000 miles on it and no major issues. It's still running now with it's new owner. These Porsches sound ridiculous.
I certainly enjoyed the 996 community when I owned my car. But after a while, you see through the Porsche mystique and see the 996 for what it really is: a giant money pit. I'll always cherish my ownership experience but I'm glad I got over the Porsche allure and went with much better Japanese cars from the early 2000s.
@@corychecketts I totally agree, my years of Impreza (96 WRX RA) and Evo 6 RS were much better than my 996 C4S ownership, far more reliable.
In fact I had a JDM Eunos Roadster with over 140k on the clock that I turbo converted and it was super reliable.
There this saying that German engineering is great but every German thing I’ve had has broken ie various Bosch appliances and E-bike, and the Porsche is a pain in the arse and not even designed well (long gearing is just ridiculous to have on a sports car)
That explanation shows a very detailed depth of knowledge, certainly provides confidence in anyone looking for work to be conducted on their vehicle
Very well explained. I had a 986 about 24 years ago for a couple of years and was lucky.
JayEmm,
More of this type of content please.
Very interesting indeed.
I knew about borescore, but didn't know the cause, or whether to invest in such an equipped car.
Great work👍
Great video, right from the best in the industry. I have a very early (late 97) 3.4, which I bought 12 years ago. I did my research back in the day and Baz Hart was very informative. So I fitted an upgraded bearing, a lower temperature thermostat (From Hartech) and - touch wood - going strong at 123k miles.
Great one stop explanations of shortcomings of our fav flat sixes from an expert. Wonderful idea. And yes you should do in depth review of one of their conversions. I look forward to it.
As usual, your deep dives are very entertaining and supremely informational. Now I understand.
Great to see someone like Julian that actually knows what he’s talking about. Top video 👍
I drove those same 996 cars in Feb 23 and the 3.7 eco was the biggest surprise of the day. It pulled hard even from very low rpm, a great piece of engineering from the team. The 3.9 conversion definitely brought the 3.6 bang up to date with an impressive power delivery right up to the red line and bags of torque where you needed it for fast road driving. The 4.1L which was part of the line up on the day turned the heat up even more and i was lucky enough to become the owner soon after. The team at Hartech are exceptional at what they do and are leading the way in keeping these early water cooled cars on the road where they may otherwise have been uneconomical to repair.
What are the Hp/trq figures for the 4.1?
@@MrCaterhamr500 mine is 371 bhp and 450nm
@@dwarfyh32 thank you, that’s not bad!
Very interesting, thanks for posting. This is a proper engineering company, I could listen to this engineer all day, very clever 👊🏻
Thank you very much!!!! You did a fantastic job of explaining the problem and having the solution of fixing it!!! Really appreciated
The first expert I've heard talk about these issues! Brilliant.
I’ve nearly pulled the trigger on a 996 a few times, but never quite got there. This is a brilliant video, probably one of the best you’ve done!
Really enjoyed learning and seeing more about IMS problems. It’s something I’ve always heard about. But never really seen/explained
Can’t wait for the 4.1 review! I get a 996.2 with the 3.6 bored to 3.9. It feels great!
Great informative video. Thanks, James!
And yes please to a more in depth video on a 4.1 😃
Thank you for producing such a fine video. The descriptions of the problems cuts through all the Internet bluster.
Another great video James. I've heard of Hartech and seen some videos of their amazing work. I have a 1999 Porsche 996 with a replacement engine that has the larger single row IMS bearing. It's a factory replacement that was done by the previous owner some 35k mikes ago. Great car, I've owned it now close to 4 years and it's a great all rounder. It's also ULEZ compliant, which is useful when visiting my brother in London. Get the hartech conversion 4.1, go on you know you want to.
Great content. I myself had my 997.1c2s full engine rebuilt so yes Hartech guys know their stuffs. 🎉
Thanks for showing us the truth. I spent many hours on the internet and all the info I found said the 987.1 wouldn't suffer from bore score because it was the "old" piston design/coating. Oh well, keep driving it, keep the oil extra fresh and hope for the best. Worst case it goes to a new owner that has funds for a different engine as a complete rebuild is too much. Note...I've owned a couple Corvettes,(C-6,C-7), and it seems high performance cars tend to have issues as everything is taken to the max to achieve those results. If you're concerned about reliability buy a car which has been proven to be exactly that.
One of your best videos. Would love to see more Hartech Porsche content please 🙏
Great video explaining the situation within a half hour, that depicts what and why this happens, with the M96 & M97 engine series. The ferrous piston skirt coating being banned was the largest reason for the bore scoring happening and in the MA1/9A1 engine design they went back to what they knew from the air cooled and Mezger engine series. Only 5 since 2009 that they have seen with cold seizing and these may be from the change in thermal management that came in the 981/991, as I've not heard about it in the 987.2 & 997.2 engines. The 9A2, which came from the 9A1 engine design went to an Arc Plasma Bore (iron) and I've not heard of these engines having bore problems; but maybe they could have and I'm just not aware of it.
Nice that someone can fix what Porsche couldn't give toss about. As far as I am concerned Porsche stopped building cars after the last aircooled 6.
You have a really good show, you get into the details. I really like your show.
Excellent video, thanks. Never seen so much detailed information on Porsche engine problems in one place. The engineer's explanation on what causes and cures these problems was also excellent. My first Porsche was a 981 Cayman 2.7 manual. Current Porsche is a 718 GTS 4.0 manual. No problems with the 981 and none so far with the 718 GTS 4.0 after 3 years from new. I love Porsches but what a sad indictment of poor engineering on those earlier liquid cooled engines. This from a car maker that prides and promotes itself on its engineering prowess. I realize that the later engine types are much improved but I'm definitely going to pay for the extended Porsche Factory Warranty for as long as possible.
I love the engine details in the show and tell section.
How interesting. I had a full rebuild at an independent dealer about 15 months ago and I believe Porsche bits and pieces were used. With hindsight maybe I should have gone to these guys as they definitely know their stuff. My rebuild including a clutch probably cost more than the car is worth but I’m hoping I’ve got another 15 years out of my Boxster 987.1 S now 🤞🏻
Great video. These garage modification insights are really unique and helpful. Boiling down years of forum chat into digestible videos.
The best intelligent assessment I have seen amazed they shared their knowledge.
Dont believe this I've just watched a repeat of wheeler dealers where Elvis went to this company. Eye opening and this video is the same , thanks personally I think Porsche have alot to answer for and should talk to these guys that are sorting their engineering mistakes out . Shocking obviously Porsche dont do recalls they are happy to take your hard earned money and leave you to pay later. Alot of owners wont be watching this cause they have money to waste and keep going back to dealer that will have owners pants down . Porsche dont ever think about making another car without talking to the professional and sack your so called development team. 😂 excellent video many thanks. I will be contacting hart❤
An informative and well balanced analysis, James.
I bought my 3.4 996 C2 knowing all that could go wrong (and how to deal with it if it does), it had the IMS and RMS done along with a new clutch shortly before purchase, so far all is good. There is however a tiny little bit of me is still hoping for a cylinder bore issue to rear it's head, only so that I have a good enough excuse to visit Hartech for a set of 3.7 pistons and liners...
Keep up the great content 👍
Spot on. I absolutely love my 996.2 C2. Without fail it makes me smile every time I drive it. If I need a lift I just take it for a spin, it’s super reliable in that sense and I can’t see myself ever selling it. If one day it were to go BANG I’d just take it to Hartech and make it even better🤷🏻♂️
Great vid James! And yes, a long review would be awesome! All of us Porsche owners have one eye on Hartec for when the inevitable happens, ( and a credit card quivering with fear for when it does!)
Thanks James. That was an absolutely brilliant video! I'm just sorry that Hartech aren't here in California.
Jay, I really enjoyed the format of this video, it reminded me a lot of 90s Top Gear. I hope to see more JayEmm On Location in the future!
I have a 997.1 C2S which had a Harlech rebuild at 80,000. We are now just past 165,000. I know I’m tempting fate but this engine is sooooooo sweet and has been amazing. Hartech did a wonderful job.
Until they find the next point of failure
A great video, informative and superbly presented. It's convinced me to definitely not buy a Porsche, though what Hartech can do is amazing in giving these engines a new life.
These small companies don't have buildings filled with marketing people or focus groups with their heads stuck in some text book going " we think more screens, more driver aids, more fake engine sounds". Its just a bunch of clever, proper petrol heads doing whatever they want, and you know what,
AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY'RE TAKING THE BIG MANUFACTURERS TO SCHOOL......BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its at these small to medium sizes that companies at at their most efficient for sure
It goes against the anecdotes I grew up hearing about British engineering being substandard compared to German engineering. I guess in this case the tables are turned.
I love the styling. I grew up lusting after the Stratos and the Esprit, so I guess I am a sucker for a wedge. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy your videos.
Enjoy and appreciate your videos. Yep, you should get a 996.2 3.6 and get the engine rebuilt to a 4.1 and do a review. The 996.2 is an excellent car with a classic look and handling feel. Best bargain in the sports car world, but not for long thanks to the aftermarket parts and solutions that keep being developed to keep these babies running strong. Everybody will want one.
Terrific video explaining the issues in a clear way.
Very good explanation of these engines
Most don’t have problems
Great video 👍 Imagine if Lotus had suffered similar design flaws 🤷♂️the British automotive media have a lot to answer for in how these two brands are perceived.
Hear hear
they have a lot of design flaws. You never had a Lotus Sprit or Lotus Elan?
@@PatricioGarcia1973at least the engine is in the right place, not hanging out the back? Lol
What a great video. Very informative.
I own a 2006 987.1 S (3.2) and bought it over a later car for exactly the reasons in your table (interestingly the table doesn't mention 3.2 litre cars with the larger IMS circa 2005/55 and 2006/06).
Cast pistons, flexible RMS, larger IMS and no bore score (and 360 quid road tax pre-April 06), known as the 'goldilocks 987'.
It's been an amazing car for the past 3 years or so. Yes I'd love a 911 but given the aforementioned issues won't be getting rid anytime soon given the Boxster has cost me under £15k in total and done almost 20k miles with very little trouble.
From our "not a lot of people know that department" - the 2006 Boxster S does not have IMS or bore score problems as it has an improved bearing AND cast pistons so is essentially immune. This nice sweet spot does NOT extend to the 2006 Cayman.
@@warrenblacking , exactly what I found out. I then bought a 2006 Boxster S with the large IMS bearing. Now this bearing has gone wrong and I have a lot of metal particles in the filter. The engine has to be rebuilt! So never be to sure. 67000 miles and complete service history….
Nice video! Thanks. Porsche 996.1 owner in Japan 🇯🇵
Very informative James thank you! I'll now save up for a 996 Turbo or 997 Gen 2!
Those 996 C4S are gorgeous, at least among 996s. 😮
Wow! Thank you for this content. The amount of info and engineering talking is mind blowing. ❤
Great and informative chat 🙂
Sort of explained my own turmoil searching for my one last attempt to scratch that 911 itch……. and why I went safe/silly and bought a 2001 996 TT coupe……. without your beloved sunroof, with my choice of tiptronic, which I am very pleased with…….
Anyhow, you can judge my taste on Sunday in the park 🙂🇬🇧
Really enjoyed this video!
JAY, once again, great video, congrats. but now its time to buy a 986.2 S 3.2 and go to hartech for the 3.7 conversion. everyone wants to see an old boxster and what they capable of doing. there are so many boxsters on the road in europe.
Fabulous video, no silly alarmist talk, clear, informative and entertaining (for me anyway)
Really nice breakdown of IMS and RMS issues. IMS has been often overblown. By buying 06 onwards you should be ok. 05 tricky year as IMS could be either a bigger reliable bearing or the smaller single row. Jay's summary of bore scoring risk for all the models half way through the video is spot on.... lot's of reasons why, casting issues, oiling, pistons cast (better) than forged, bore size, v long service intervals, cold climate, idling without driving and much more. Porsche Club America have 4 hours of videos to scare you. We have to remember these engines are two decades old. Sooty tail pipe and tapping are late signs. Having engine scoped before is advised but you'll need to approach bores from below.....I'm not sure all sellers will agree to this.
Lot's of other things from air oil separators, corroded cross over pipes, clutches.
Own a 08 Boxter 2.7 and IMO they sound better than 911 Cabriolet. Whilst they're are a few around you can be picky. 6k miles in mine last year nd I love the car. I prefer the drive of 987.1, exhaust tone and front but 987.2 are less common and command a premium.
These are wonderful cars and IMO the 911 987.1 was the prettiest 911.
What a cool video. Now I want my 997.2S converted to 4.2 with more torque! Time to go send an email.
So enjoyable and educational, like wiping up gravy off your plate after a wonderful meal. Thanks.
I love that simile
Excellent video! Great commentary and thorough information !
Great video which properly explains the issues which even I understand. Before buying a 986S I spent ages trying to find 'realistic' info on their problems. Turns out the internet will have you believe these cars will blow up as soon as you turn the key. It's not true, and statistically the percentages are very low of there being any issues. I sold my Boxster last year. No mechanical issues whatsoever, but I realised rust was starting to appear somewhere unexpected and I wanted something else by then.
I bought a 2004 986S (facelift with the improved engine) in 2017 with 90k on the clock and spoke to 2 well-known independent specialists as well as 2 OPCs, and none of them had seen a single case of IMS failure in the last 10 years. They all strongly advised not to waste £3k on an IMS change (40% of my cars value) on old models like the 986 and 996 as, if your car was affected, the original bearing would’ve long gone by now and you’ve now far more expensive things to potentially worry about, such as gearbox failure.
I Worked on Air/Oil Cooled Engines And They Suffered From Bore Scoring A Lot More Than a Water Cooled Ever Did ,Its To Do With The Heating Up Or Not Before Loading the Engine,Cooling down After Use,Oil Level And How Often its Changed and the Correct oil or Not and Loads More To Do With Differing Materials Used and How Quickly They Exspand etc.
What a great and highly informative video. If I had a Porsche with engine issues, this place in question, is for sure, the place I'd take it. Also, if we're looking at around £12000 for a major rebuild (and you could afford it), to spend an extre £3000 for an increased swept volume, seems a very tempting offer! It would make it all worth the effort, and itd drive noticeably better, and longer than ever!
+1.
I’ve a low mileage & well maintained 996.2.
It feels like a new car yet, in the unlikely event I ever wear out the engine, there are terrific opportunities at Hartech to soften the bow.,
The issue is that’s plus VAT so you are nearly spending the value of the car all over again, and will not get much back at all. I don’t know many folk that can afford to lose £15,0000
Excellent video great info thanks Jay
Hartech seem like an impressive engine builder. Ten years ago I was driving a 78 911SC and liked it, but when the front torsion bar failed and you could only buy used bars I figured I'd pass it on to someone who was more suicidal. I did like Porsche's and the water cooled ones were getting into my price range. When I did my homework I just wasn't satisfied with "well they don't ALL fail". What did I do? Well I bought an 02 Maserati Spyder with a manual transmission. The Maserati Ferrari M136 engine doesn't fail. Cheap, fabulous car.
This is the reason I bought the 2.7 base cayman. I've owned a 911 and Cayman S, and the base 2.7 Cayman is just as much fun. Don't overlook it.
They have long gearing though in the 5 speed, not bad if you get the optional 6 speed though. 2.7 is a sweet engine, needs a light flywheel though.
@MrCaterhamr500 I've had both the S and the base, the gearing is looong in both and you won't really notice the marginal difference. It's the kind of thing that is easy to spot on paper, nearly impossible to perceived in the real world. The base is tons of fun and it makes you work a little more for the performance by revving it out (which is something I love as a former S2000 owner). Finding a 6-speed base is extremely rare and you'll pay a premium for it, and it's totally not worth it.
@@IronicTonic8 I agree that the gearing is still long but the gap between ratios is better on a six speed, I’ve owned and tracked both, the six speed IS better when driven properly.
A friend got bore score on his 2.7 Cayman, less risk of course but they arent safe sadly..
Such a great video - thank you!
Best video you have ever made.
Very educational, thank you.
I previously owned a 997.2. It was around £8k more than a 997.1 but worth every penny for the improved engine and other updates, plus it was 3 years newer.
I never thought you’d ever mention M96 motor ailments again but here we are. I’m excited!
I own a 987.1 2.7 2006. 118 k, with mods. I change the oil with hi silicone racing oil every 5 k. NOT one engine issue since I bought it in 2007!
Car runs awesome. Had it up to 135 mph the other day (yea, once a year. LOL). Not one hiccup!
Stayed right with that Mustang GT!
Excellent video, super informative!
brilliant annalist on the main problems explained, even I understood! Go ahead and get one Jay.
analyst; annalist is a list of anna's..
+1 for the 4.1 Review!!!