Tightening Bits and Collets | How to Use Your CNC Correctly
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Properly tightening and using your collet and collet nuts correctly can extend the life of your CNC bits and improve your cut quality. This video goes over how to properly tighten you ER Collets for your CNC and tips and tricks to help you on your CNC journey.
Online Torque Chart:
www.qtstools.com/document_libr...
Tip #1-1:03
Tip #2 - 2:20
Tip #2.5 - 3:59
Tip #3 - 5:49
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Machinist my entire career, nothing wrong with having the shank of the endmill sticking out the rear of the ER collet. Ideally the shorter your stickout the better so long as you dont run into clearance issues, you just cant go past any of the flute grinding. I totally understand if you use this as a shop standard for mitigating clearance issues with crashing collet nuts but just know theres nothing wrong with it and in general its more rigid. There are toolholders in the metalworking industry you can get with adjustable depth stops, its just a set screw you can get to through a hollow pull-stud (also common in the metalworking industry for through spindle coolant)
I have to agree with you - been machining for 20 years and absolutely my take on this issue also .
200% agree. If this gives problems its time to replace the collet.
Agree. I run my end mills flush. If I were to change a tool during an operation I would have to zet my Z axis all over again doing it this way. If I just push the end mill flush with the back and know the measurements I can easily compensate with a little math. (better not say math too loud the younger generation may get scared!) I've never been more than 2 thousandths off yet which yeah that can be alot but still that's a tight tolerance!
@@TheCommo81 2though.. thats 0.58mm? Thats quite a lot!
When i make something with these tolerances.. i can scrap it all. Lol
@@Jbpipesandmufflers 0.58mm is still a tight tolerance. When I do bearing pockets and they are 2 thousandths off I just freeze the bearing in my freezer for an hour and it drops right in. if it's going on a shaft I set the bearing on a 100W light bulb for about 3-4 min and it slides right in. When it cools off it's nice and tight. 2 Thousandths is acceptable to most people. My neighbor has been a machinist for 50 years, 2 thou is the max for him. What I was referencing was placing the tool at the same exact height every time you will know where your tolerance lies when changing tools in the middle of a run.
Unless I'm mistaken ER collets clamp at the front and at the rear. 5C collets only clamp at the front. That's why the slits in the ER collet are cut from both ends.
Preferably the tool should insert to at least even with the rear face. That ensures maximum clamping. If, for whatever reason, the tool is too short, resulting in the flutes going into the collet, then it should be pulled out until the flutes are clear before tightening.
Snaping the collet into the nut first I totally agree with. Doing anything else will result in damaged collets, tools, work piece and probably the router or mill spindle.
As someone else pointed out if there are ridges worn in the "nut taper end" of the collet that's almost to be expected after some use. A "small" amount of anti sieze on that face will slow that problem down but I emphasize "SMALL" amount. If the ridges are on the main tapered part of the collet throw it away. Also examine the machine's spindle taper carefully. It may have been damaged in sympathy and repair may require some specialised grinding to repair.
The one requirement you didn't mention was to make sure your spindle is clean, the collet slots are clear of debris. New collets especially can have swarf from the cutting of the slits left behind. Examine with a light and magnifier. If any are seen I've found a small utility knife blade is about the right thickness to run through the slit to clear them. If there are ridges at the inner or outer edges of the slits fetter them off with a fine, small triangular file. Any protrusion will cause run out. Likewise make sure there are no burrs on the shank of the tool you're inserting.
Thanks for your video.
Excellent video on information that is rarely talked about. Nice job!!
The things that no one else tells you... Thank you sir!
No one has ever explained this to me and I have been doing it wrong thanks for the info
This informations are rare on TH-cam. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Waiting for next vids.
Great tips on collets , thanks for sharing .
Thank you for the great video! It's very useful information missing in the most tutorials.
I really wish I had this information about a year ago when I started with CNC. Absolutely awesome and super helpful. Thank you for making the video
Thanks so much for explaining how to put the collet in correctly. I had no idea it could be popped in place or taken out!!! You saved the day!!!!!
This was just what I needed. Thanks brother.
Simple and helpful tips. Thx.
Thanks for another great video!
Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Matrix, go to sleep thinking about certain things and wake to great videos with all the answers. Great video 👍
Love your videos. Great information.
Excellent information here!
Your just first tip saved my life... Thank you very much.
Excellent video, many thanks!!
For the units-purist: Torque is in metric expressed in newton-meter (Nm), not newton per meter. More force (newtons or pounds) or a longer arm (meters or feet) increase the torque, so both quantities are multiplied instead of divided as 'newton per meter'' suggests.
Apart from that, your video apparently was an eye-opener for many watchers, so very useful!
Legend , finally got my diy cnc collet to work as it should. Thank YOU!!!!!!
That’s awesome! Glad it helped!
Struggled for hours trying to get a bit to run without a wobble on my cheap CNC machine. With a lot of force I managed to snap the collet into the nut and it cured the problem. Many thanks.
Actually the collet snaps into the nut quite easily if you push the collet hold the (empty !) collet at an angle while pushing it in.
Just what I was looking for
I am a total newbie to this. You have solved a problem I have had for three months. I bought a cheap 3018 CNC router to have fun when retired and the tool end always wasn’t central. It moved in a circle at the end when I rotated the motor. So the tools couldn’t machine a good thin line. I bought a new motor and collet but had the same thing. Then I saw your video. I was installing the tool into the collet then the collet into the nut. Just tried clicking the collet into the nut THEN installing the tool, then tightening. Problem solved! Thank you
Your welcome!
What brand torque wrench, and what open ends do you use?
Thank you so much for the information. You made my day 😊
Thank you for this. I thought I had bought crappy engraving v-bits where the point wasn't on centerline, but I just wasn't snapping the collet in properly.
Great videos,im interesting in how to make rough cutting first and finish later,is it 2 different stl files on same project? In use artcam and mach3.i would be very thankful for this
useful info. Thanks.
Great video! Do you have lube on the threads of the motor shaft? If so what would you recommend?
awesome, very helpful
Thank you for your information. I learn a good class
Thank you so much for sharing this information, especially that the collet will snap into the collet nut. Now sounds like common sense, but only after I've seen your video. Cheers.
Helpful video... thank you...
The 'scratches on the collet' thing would depend on where the scratches are. Scratches or raised burrs on the long taper would be bad, they indicate the collet has been slipping in the spindle and they could affect alignment. Wear marks on the short outer taper are just a normal result of the nut turning against the collet every time you change bits.
Long stock that runs through the collet chuck is turned all the time on a lathe. The concern with tool bit holding was always to not be careful not to allow bottoming out on the bit shank which may result in an uneven clamping force when the nut is prevented from fully seating the collet.
or, with long stock... the free end whipping and throwing harmonics down the line...
yup, never heard or seen anyone ever say you shouldnt push stock/cutters right into a collet... up until now.
where some people get their information from... ffs...
this is an example of why one should do a trade or at least read some trade books...
Life saver thank you.
FYI, torque is not "Newtons per meter" just as it's not "lbs per foot"! It's *Newton* *meters* (Nm)
First time of using CNC, I reversed the direction of the collet (haha)
Very helpful
Thank you
Good knowledge brother
Thanks, really useful!
Would love to see your main CNC in action. Never seen hardwood feeds higher than basic hobby grade level.
I am going to do a video soon of just making a simple bowl with my CNC going at 500 or so IPM with a 1/2 bit, should be interesting!
You changed up your closer. If you ain’t cutting it close you ain’t cutting it right. I look forward to your videos. Could you do videos on climb cutting verses conventional cutting and when to use each one. I would also de interested in a video on the types of work you typically do on your cnc. Signage , cabinets etc.
Never seen anyone using torque wrench before, even router manufacturers not stated in usage instructions. However, if using a torque wrench, first thing I was taught as a mechanuc, ALWAYS Zero it back after use, otherwise you will invalidate the settings as the spring will be overstrained long periods.
Actually like all thread fasteners, there is a recommended and max torque value that should be abided by. ER collet nuts are very susceptible to cracking because of the tapered interface between the collet and the nut which puts a lot a tensile hoop stress on the nut. Since the vast majority of endmills used daily are upcut design, the cutting action naturally is trying to pull the endmill out of the collet and thus you want as much torque as you can safely put on the nut to generate the most clamping force from the collet but at the same time, you obviously dont want to crack the nut..
Any time one is trying to do very high accuracy / extremely low tolerance machining using ER Collets (or with any type of tapered collet), retention thread torque values should be abided by. Most aerospace industry machining businesses (among others) are very particular about this because of the tolerances they are trying to hold. I've worked for a few places over the years that if you were seen not using a torque wrench and proper values when setting up tools, you faced suspension and / or getting fired. Then again, these were also jobs where loose tolerance jobs where in the +/- a couple tenths (like +/- 0.0002" (or +/-0.005mm) and tight tolerance where in the hundreths (like +/- 0.00005" (or 0.001mm). Beyond that, you were getting into the realm of ground and lapped to size rather than milled but still, a few lb-ft of torque difference can result in a cutter slipping a a tenth or two in the holder and blowing the tolerance.
At the same time, many of these industries have gotten away from collet style tool holding and gone to shrink fit and hydraulic tool holders due to their superior retention over collets.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
thank you
great tips! now i have to get crowfoot adaptors for my torque wrench, never thought of torque. Question for ya. i've been following your advice on feeds and speeds. i have a laguna 4x8 router. when I follow the feeds and speeds to the full calculations cutting maple with a whiteside 1/4' compression endmill. i get a horrible sound. sounds like a demented freight train whistle. i've played around with speed and feed and still get that horrible sound. using new bits. any idea what could cause this?. thanks for all your great videos and tips. they have helped out a ton
@@cutting-it-close on a piece of 3/4 maple i tried 3 passes first pass being .25" i have tried it in 2 passes as well. right now i've dropped my feed and speeds 18000 spindle 170 feed. still have the freight train sound. not as bad. i think it's chatter and I've tried faster speeds and feeds and slower. gone to extremes holding down my work piece as well. still get it, especially with maple. Up here in canada we pay through the nose for bits. so its is a bit frustrating.(no pun intended lol) by the time i get a whiteside or vortex compression bit delivered im in $60 to $70. i have an opportunity to do a mass cut project for a customer that could make my year. All maple. just worried about taking it until i figure out how to cut more efficient and cleaner im cutting latter today and tomorrow. maybe i'll take a video and send it off to you. more than likely it is something really obvious and i'm over thinking it. Thanks
Try using an up cut bit instead. I just milled 10/4 hard maple with a 1/2” UC end mill. No problems. 1/4” DOC each pass.
Thanks for this amazing video. I am new to this. You took your time and made it clear. I wish you were my teacher. Lol
You are so welcome!
Sorry, my English is not very good, so I may have misunderstood something.
I'm interested in knowing where you got the information for tip number 2.
I have never heard that you can't put tools over the collets, and if the tools are too short, it may cause injury to the collets.
Thanks for the informative video. Just a small detail - using the metric system - torque is measured in Newton Metrers ( and not Newtons per square metre). Best wishes.
@ cutting it close your the best cnc youtuber. I would rather wacth you than ather cn youtubers your great.
Thank you so much, is there anything else you would like to see from me?
@@cutting-it-close some cnc summer designs or spring matbe ?
Could we extend the collet or Shank for deeper job in this type of routers ? And how please help
Thanks for the advice! Can you provide information for tip 3 of ER11?
Could you be more specific? I can help!
What torque wrench or adaptor are you using?
What size of CNC is good for a door production line.
Which motor is best for cnc, stepper or Servo?
I understand what you are saying but how do you know your bit tolerance if you don't set it flush with the back of the collet? I was always taught the back of the end mill should be flush with the back of the collet unless the cutting edge is too close to or in the collet then you pull it out some. This is important so when you change tooling and go back you already know that end mill sitting flush sticks out xx mm or inches from the collet. Lots of CNC software considers the bottom of the collet as Z0, like mach 3. If you add your tooling into the software and it's flush you can save that tooling and then the software automatically knows when you select that tool that it's going to stick out say....2 inches from the bottom of the spindle. Z probing doesn't help you in the middle of a project when you make a tool change, only at the start. If you have consistency with putting the end mill flush with the back your tolerances will be much closer if not spot on all the time.
Just to be sure about that chart, the torque for collets ID over 2 mm for ER16 is 42, for ER20 is 59.
For collets ID under 2 mm, ER16 is 30 but ER20 is 24 ft/lbs?
Is this correct since ER25 is 77 in both columns?
There is less torque needed for a ER20 collet when the ID is under 2mm?
Useful video, thank you. Just one thing I have to correct you on, in the metric system torque is measured in Nm ie Newton metres, not in Newtons per metre!
@Cutting it close.Wow Wow Wow thanks so much!!!!!!.You helped me so much.Man!your great love ya and thanks
You’re very welcome! I’m guessing you were burning through collets like I was!
@@cutting-it-close yep
Pretty good info. But,... the hang out in the back doesn't matter as long as the collet is the correct size. I just keep trying different sizes until the collet holds the cutter, drill, ect.. cutter slides freely buts just grabs. Or put tool in collet and squeeze collet out of the nut with my hand and as long as there is a visible gap in the slots and and the tool holds tight with hand force your good! I've been a machinist for 30 years and have never had a problem with my technique. Just wanted to let you know.
awesome info I didn't know, thanks I was doing step 1&2 wrong also am a noob 🙂
Where can you find the collet torque wrench? It looks like a specialty item. 😬
I got mine from Vortex tools
QUESTION: How can you calibrate a Z-axis if it is not exactly in relation to the X / Y plane? I'm using a Stepcraft M1000 and can feel with my fingernails, that the surface I milled isnt flat.
You need to tram x/y using a tramming tool:
stupidsimple.tools/products/tramming-tool?variant=38224402776262
Z is only up or down, so any ridges you feel or see are corrected on x or y plane. It is near impossible on any hobby grade machine not to have Machining marks left that does not need a little sanding before finishing. But if you are referring to actual ridges, then tuning it up will help solve the problem.
hey what kind of router bits and collets do i need to start a 3D carving and advertising business?
The metric units are newton-meters, rather than newtons _per_ meter.
yes, but what if the milling cutter is long, should it be inserted more then?
Ou puis-je trouver la clee dinamometrique de serrage ?
Have you ever trie a product called Musclechuck?
I REALLY wish I knew to watch this sooner. Looks like I fucked up my new collets and I guess that explains the chatter and broken bits. Fuckkkkk $$$$$$
who told you that the bit can not protrude past the end of the collet ?
where did that information come from.
There's probably a reason why you've never been told about the torque settings on a collet. Or why there's no torque specifications in the user manuals of these machines.
Why is a bit sticking too far into the collet not good? The shorter the tool, the less deflection, chatter, etc.
In principle, the nut needs to move the collet+bit deeper into the taper in order to clamp tighter onto the bit. I suppose if the back end of the bit has already bottomed out it could prevent that from happening, but in reality I doubt it's a problem.
Omgoodness. I have put my bits in upside down for the entire year I’ve used it. I can’t wait to get in the shop and see what happens when I do it correctly. Smh
40hrs a week.. we are running the machine 16-20hrs a day... Everyday... I need to change my collet more frequently. 😐
Stickout at the back doesnt matter.
The bit is pushed out if it cant go in that deep while clamping.
Impropper stickout on the other hand(cutting side) can and will induce isseus. If you need to to get deep enough. Be aware of that.
On the blank side of the tool. Its absolutely no problem.
Simply becourse the taper is precision ground to match the collet. This part is bullshit rule. If that coyses issieus. Replace the collet !
Load of bollocks. Nothing wrong with the tool going all the way through the collet. Most ER holders have an adjustable stop below the bottom face of the collet.
alot of these "tips" are made up
Nothing wrong with the tool extending out the top of the collet… what is this “must be 1/8 in from the top” stuff? He seems like a bit of a beginner.
What is this guy on about
...THANKS FOR THIS ADVICE! HOWEVER!.. IT'S NOT "NEWTONS PER METER"!!!!!!!!! THAT'S TOTALLY MISLEADING!!!!!!! IT'S "NEWTON x METERS"
=> IT'S AN IDEAL, "MAXIMUM" (NOT TO EXCEDE) AMOUNT OF "TORQUE FORCE"....
Great video! Thank you