The Defiant-class is what happens when Starfleet stops fucking around. It produces a tiny warship capable of wrecking much larger vessels. For basically the same crew allotment as a single Galaxy-class you could have twenty Defiants... and there's not much that could handle that. I personally loved what the ship represented as much as its cool design... the idea that the Federation _could_ be pushed too far, and when it was it could produce ships like the Defiant, and the Sovereign, and the Akira. The only reason why the Federation hasn't simply ended most of its enemies like the Romulans and Cardassians is because _it didn't want to._
The Mirror Universe's Terran Empire showcases petfectly what Humanity would be capable of if it indulged its capacity for warfare and conquest to its fullest potential.
I'm not sure if the Federation was pushed too far, so much as the Borg were not only an existential threat, but one that other avenues (outside of defeating in battle) were not available. They could not be negotiated with, surrender wouldn't yield survival, etc. They could only be defeated, or the Federation (and every other power) would inevitably fall, empowering it. Space Zombies and all that...
In a way SF should have kept the mantra of the 23rd century. While I understand Roddenberry wanting to move away from war, and that reflected with the next gen. The Borg was the right choice to punch SF in the nose that it badly needed, they became complacent.
@@angelphoenix7784 They were still complacent to the point of incompetence when the dominion war went hot and open conflict began, thinking a fleet of mostly decades old ships that had been refitted to modern technology could hold up to a battle fleet of a polity that had been doing it for who knows how long. They had been working on new ships after Wolf 359 but it wasn't urgent because no threat was looming. Then suddenly they're getting pasted in every battle and it's a scramble. When the Federation finally got it's industrial juggernaut going they were cranking out nearly only the combat designs and it started going better; Starfleet remembered how to wage conflict. It was a matter of survival at that point.
@@maverickjsmith8795 Very, true. the Borg were the ones that cause SF to start thinking of tactical ships and ways to defeat them. The Gamma Quadrant however, showed how SF needed these ships.
The Defiant alone should be a big message to the rest of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant Powers. "This is our first attempt at a dedicated military ship. Go ahead, force us to design BIGGER ones."
@@Geats-IXSovereign and Akira had other roles they could perform. While they were beefed up to fight the Borg, the Prometheus Class, like the Defiant Class, was made strictly for combat. The Defiant Class was a short-range warship. The Prometheus Class was a long-range warship.
I like the Lore that lead to the development of the defiant. Benjamin Sisko lost his wife to the borg. Instead of doing something Picard would do, he turned his anger against the borg by building a ship to beat the borg. In turn the ship was to powerful for its own good and wanted to tear itself apart. What I find even more interesting is that the Defiant was rarely used in combat the way it was intended. I describe it as, "The Defiant is a wolf and wolves hunt in packs." The Defiant was designed to close the distance and brawl with the enemy (this was shown in that one episode of Voyager). More often than not, the Defiant was fighting in duels or out numbered, when she was used they way she was intended, she fought beautifully. I consider the Defiant the best example of Starfleet's "Fuck around and find out," mentality. It is small, unassuming, but packs the punch of a ship many times her size. The crew compliment was minuscule (a very great asset in combat if all hands are lost). The Defiant was "Benjamin Sisko's mother fucking pimp hand," and it showed.
Sfdebris put it best: "Picard faced the Borg and after it was done ruining his life he stood in his office drinking Earl Grey. Sicko faced the Borg and after it was done ruining his life he fumed at it from an escape pod then went off to design a ship whose only purpose is to kill Borg. It's a set of guns strapped to an engine. Then he called it Defiant. A name that practically shakes it's fist at the Borg. And that was his second choice. Starfleet felt that the U.S.S. Ben Sisko's Motherf%$&ing Pimphand was just too long."
One of the story Ideas for the war was to have a "Wolf pack" of Defiant class ships (4 in each pack) running around behind enemy lines. One would appear damaged or lost and when the Dominion attacked, the other 3 would decloak and attack. Because of budget restraints this idea was later reworked into the episode "Favor the Bold" and was just he Defiant and Klingon ship doing it.
Sounds nice, but only the Defiant had a cloak, not the class. Once the Defiant was destroyed and the San Paulo was renamed, I don't believe it was ever installed with a cloak
@@brokedude9999 others have been seen with cloaks like the one with the academy students I believe. Besides the writers would of found a way to add it to the lore, it was just something they wanted to do but had to scale it back.
@@jacara1981 I'm pretty sure the Romulans only gave 1 cloak to the Federation. I believe the Valiant was a Red Squadron exclusive training vessel. And it used some spacial anomaly to sneak up on the Gem H'Dar Battle Ship, I don't believe the Valiant used a Cloak. If I remember correctly, the San Paulo/ Defiant didn't cloak at all on screen. If I remember the Voyager episode for the Prometheus, the 2 Defiant Class with the Akira didn't Cloak either. I'm fairly sure the Ship not the class had the cloak.
The outbreak of the Dominion war and the Borg basically reminded Starfleet to follow Theodore Roosevelt's adage when it comes to dealing with conflicts: "Speak softly, and carry a big stick." The Defiant class is proof of the Federation showing how BIG they can make that stick.
There may be bigger, faster, even crazier or more technically accurate spacecraft but The Defiant is my all time favorite starship. That cloaking device they lifted just puts it over the top.
The Defiant's registry number was in honor of Gene Roddenberry's son Rod Roddenberry whose birthday is February 5th, 1974 (02/05/74) as he worked with the DS9 production crew in the art department.
No wonder she was named the Defiant. As Ric pointed out several times, she _defied_ the Federation's emphasis on peaceful exploration and negotiation. About the only other thing they could have named her was "And The Horse You Rode In On."
The fans like to call it Sisko's Pimp hand that he uses to smack down B's that want to front on the federation and DS9 in particular. You mess with the Sisko, you get the Slap!
That sounds more like the name of a Halo UNSC starship. Which if you don't know contain such awesome names as Pillar of Autumn, Forward Unto Dawn, Say My Name, and Bum Rush...
Still my favorite ship in STO. My Starfleet Klingon character ran one of these (the advanced version) with enough cannons to reduce most enemies to flaming wreckage... the USS Mor'Dakka.
The shields were also incredible powerful. Although they are a standard shield found on much larger ships, the small and compact size allowed the shield bubble to take a far greater amount of hits that a larger ship could take, this supposedly includes a warp-core detonation of nearby ships.
Also of note is the fact that the smaller target cross-section means those OP shields would not be hit very often. In EVE online we call these mean little buggers "Tactical Destroyers" and they are devastating little ships for sure!
The Defiant reminds me of a scene from Stargate GS1, where the team is training some rebels from the Goa'uld. Basically they hold up a Zak'natul staff weapon and say, "this is a weapon of terror" and promptly toss it aside. They hold up a FN P90 and say, "this is a weapon of war." The Defiant is the P90. Borg Tactical Cubes are the staff weapon in this metaphor.
I understand Star Fleets reluctantness when thinking of the Defiant simply because, "If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail". 🤔
The Defiant does have two aft torpedo launchers. We see her fire them in several episodes and in "The Way of the Warrior" part 2, while rescuing Dukat and the Detapa Council, Dax tells Sisko that they've lost their aft torpedo launchers.
The only time that we actually see the aft torpedo launcher fired is with the Mirror Universe Defiant in "Shattered Mirror". It is only referenced in dialogue in "Way of the Warrior".
The Defiant was a game changer as ships built after it followed the same trend of minimal streamlined functionality. With more emphasis on compactness .
This has always been my favorite since DS9, even now many years later when I was on STO, once I got a Defiant Class, I stopped upgrading at least for a while. I'm not playing anymore and will one day go back and get a new ship, but this was my dream to captain a Defiant.
You can get max-tier versions and variants of the Defiant class in STO now. I flew one for a while and absolutely loved it. It even has those roll and dash maneuvers that the tiny pilot ships have, which lets you fly the ship as it was always intended to be - just like we saw in the show.
While the Sovereign, Aikira, and Luna Captains have other tools, the Defiant is just a hammer. As a former mechanic this made me chuckle. Most jobs require skill, patience, and a certain amount of delicately applied force using leverage, every once in a while you end up with a job where you have to reach for the 5lb sledge to give it nice hard smack in the face to properly motivate things. They are rare, but every once in a while, when you need it most, nothing else is going to be able to get the job done. :)
That's funny. My coworker been working on machines for 35 years and he said his favorite tool is his mini sledge hammer. Saved him from issues many a time
The UFP is the perfect example of why you should never mess with a "good man". They will smile and talk and negotiate their way out of every crisis they can, but the moment you put them in a corner, the Defiant comes out to put you back in place... and then you will be talking, negotiating and be smiled at on board of a Sovereign where before it would've been a Galaxy class.
In the Episode "The Search" Sisko says on screen that the defiant was a design meant to be operated in fleets to overwhelm the Borg. O'Brian asked why it wasn't finished, to which Sisko replied, "The Borg threat became less Urgent." and proceeded to add it had development problems. By Sisko's account it wasn't other projects doing better, it was simply politics. Starfleet was *terribly* and unforgivably complacent by TNG. A war with the Cardassians took over a decade. A polity that was a tiny fraction the size of the Federation and militarily a joke not even by comparison. The only way that happens is the Federation, and by extension, Starfleet didn't push it. The result is it dragged on and on, and ended in a treaty that caused so many problems for many peoples. Sisko said it himself, nobody gets the frontier, Earth is paradise. What he meant is nobody thinks anything bad will happen because it's *over there* and so not a problem *for the people in paradise* , it's someone else's problem. The Federation's problem at the start of TNG and going into DS9 is indolence, and supreme arrogance. When they sent the Odyssey into the gamma quadrant, her Captain spoke so proudly and arrogantly like they'd already won. He died along with everyone on his ship and the dominion war began. The Dominion took it as an act of aggression, which it was, carried out poorly and incompetently. The defiant is something Starfleet needed before DS9. If the politics of paradise hadn't gotten in the way, there'd likely be defiant's buzzing around watching star systems by the time DS9 started. Perhaps not a ton, stationed at border sectors, systems of import, etc, alongside and with other ships of the new generation of combat designs. The defiant is a prime example of politics, and public perception, ruining a good thing. tl;dr Earth has no idea how close it got to going full cyberpunk horror and gave up on a good decision because it got complacent again because it decided the horror wouldn't ever happen again.
And they would have given up their soul the Defiant is a tool developed that goes against Starfleet's better nature to fight a foe that wouldn't see reason then brought back out to fight another foe that refused to see reason it is not a vessel they would want to just build
@@michaelkeha The Defiant was perfect for defense of key systems, such as home worlds. Take a squad of ten, dedicated to a system, with crews stationed on either a starbase, or planet side, and rotate crews for system patrols.
The Defiant Class has 4 forward torpedo launchers. Two dorsal and two ventral. You can see two ventral launchers in use in the Episode "For The Uniform".
The reason the ship was so powerful is that it was built with a power plant similar to that of the Galaxy class which is why it 'Nearly shook itself apart when the engines were tested at full capacity' by it's designer Commander Benjamin Sisko in the season 3 2 part episode 'The Search' though it was mentioned later on that they fixed those design flaws.
Yes in a Mirror Universe episode Sisko says to Smiley that "We had to overhaul the structural integrity field grids". This fix stopped it trying to tear itself apart.
To this day, the Defiant is still my favorite Star Fleet ship. I love the fact that it's small but powerful as it allows for more acrobatic flight patterns paired with it's impressive weaponry which is just more entertaining to watch than a huge mostly non-moving ship firing a laser beam at another huge and also mostly non-moving ship. I guess you can say that it feels more like an airplane than an ocean ship in that regard. Also, my favorite showcase of what the Defiant was capable of wasn't even technically done by "The Defiant" but by it's mirror universe counterpart when it totally messed up that huge battle cruiser whilst weaving deftly in between it's weapons fire.
Im currently in the middle of the episode of ds9 “defiant” (first time watching the series i was three months old when this episode aired) i paused to find out more about the ship. Your video is perfect for what i wanted to know without ruining the show
I also believe that push come to shove if star fleet ever found their backs against the wall again i have no doubt the admirals would clamor for warships while captains like Picard begged for a conpromise.
Honestly I could see a cut down version of this ship being great for system defense, maybe reduce the reactor slightly to make it cheaper and remove the shuttle pods as it would spend its time stationed on a surface base or in orbital stations. Any attacker will have to recon with these fast and deadily little ships allowing more resources to be freed up for other mission sets. If you loose one on the defense its only 50 people and has probably damaged or crippled a much bigger and more expensive ship which is key in deterring aggression or making it so they need to spend more to do be able to take your worlds.
I personally have always found the Defiant and it’s various types to be the Federations version of a Klingon Bird of Prey and I’m certainly not complaining about that
Gotta say, love the original design, but some of the Star Trek Online designs are awesome. Especially the Valiant Class, the Sau Paulo is nice too, the adamant is cool as well, the others not so much. I pretty much always run a mix of the Valiant with the Sau Paulo nose, or the legendary defiant nose with the decal. Sometimes I'll use a terrain adamant main hull but the rest is the same as the other.
The detachable nose super torpedo makes a lot of sense if you're fighting a super gigantic borg cube that just wont go down. Poke a hole in the cube and then fill it with the biggest anti matter weapon you can manage
Exactly. Which is probably the lore-reason for never seeing Defiant class ships do this in the shows. It was just far less practical against the smaller and more maneuverable ships the Dominion was throwing at them. Though it would probably work well against the larger battleships that started showing up towards the end of the series.
Downside is that you throw away all of your forward torpedo armament if used as anything other than a final stand. Going back to Starfleet after every other mission asking for another nose and 50-odd torpedoes would lead to some interesting discussions.
Very nice job, Mister CI. This ship was like one of my favourites, and cozier 🖖 It's like not going to be lots of these designs, practical and not that "beautiful"
A small gripe about the Defiant class, though I do love it: Making it possible to build a ship with the power of the Defiant class at its size and crew was an error by the production team-at least in so far as there were more than one of them. As it was only about one tenth the size of the sovereign class (by mass) and with about one twentieth the crew, if the Defiant was stable enough to serve at Deep Space Nine, there’s no reason Starfleet would have ever paused the program unless there were significant reasons why such tiny ships weren’t good allocations of their resources. One of the more plausible in-universe reasons Starfleet wouldn’t build a fleet of them is the supposition that a Defiant class ship costs (in terms of resource allocation) significantly more to produce and maintain than Galaxy and Sovereign class ships, like for one Defiant class they could have five Sovereign class ships due to how difficult it is to manufacture a ship with the hull density of the Defiant class and/or other such factors. Maybe even throw in that they are finicky and need frequent maintenance that can only be done while docked at a starbase or space station with its resources-make them out to be ships that cannot serve on prolonged detachments or campaigns. Perhaps that was the original intent, but it seems that too many Defiant class ships have been seen on screen for that. And the prolonged “campaign” of the Valiant behind Dominion derails the maintenance idea. A further problem is that if the Federation can pull off something like the Defiant class, the Klingons and the Romulans, who care a lot less about exploration and more military efficiency, should at least approximate it. Certainly Martok, as commander of Klingon forces for much of the war, would have requisitioned such an enhanced Bird of Prey for himself, at least for its offensive capabilities.
I love this ship in any Star Trek show. My favorite Defiant moment is in the Mirror Universe during DS9 where Sisko takes the helm to beat up the big Klingon Vessel Worf was commanding. The second, that blew my mind, was two Defiant Class ships plus an Akira (I think) taking on the Prometheus and some Romulans during the Voyager episode where the Doctor get transferred to the Alpha Quadrant. Does anyone else have a favorite Defiant ship moment?
I love the Defiant so much. It just screams out the mental trauma that humanity had gone through because of the Borg. I mean a part of the ship literally detaches not so that it can deliver crew to safety but as a final ditch attempt to *blow up another ship*. Even Klingons would think that was too hard core. The fact that Sisko designed it confirms that the Defiant is just humanity saying "DON'T MAKE US ANGRY YOU WOULDN'T LIKE US WHEN WE'RE ANGRY!" in the angriest way possible. I love it but I can see how it couldn't possibly belong in an enlightened human spacefaring fleet. Another commenter here said it well: the Defiant represents that all these aggressive races like the Klingons and the Romulans and the Cardassians are kind of allowed to exist because humans decided that they didn't want to be genocidal maniacs, *because they could do it and few other races could stop them.*
The Defiant is basically _a Starfleet version of the Kligon Bird of Prey,_ occupying the same niche and concept of a pure attack ship … and it eats BOP's for breakfast. Imagine if the Federation utilised it the same way the Kligon Empire deploys BOP's? Having a few for each system and as a short range patrol ship would make the Federation a very tough nut to crack, and make life very hard for Raiders and Pirates - no more colonies and outpost being attacked by "rogue ships" of other powers. And what if Starfleet upscaled the concept to make frigate and battlecruiser versions of the Defiant concept? But just a large number of Defiants could be useful for the large multirole ships, as they could actually live up to their _classification_ and be assigned as escorts. The Kligons and the Dominion utilised this with their larger ships generally having attack ships escorting them. Just a Nebula class with a Sensor pod (or a Intrepid class), accompanied by a few Defiants, suddenly becomes a order of magnitude more powerful. The multirole ship can provide the logistical support the Defiants lack for long range missions. The Enterprise - E with a flotilla of _just four_ Defiants would have taken out the Scimitar without much effort.
I do wonder if you will talk about the “Cerberus” class from STO. As I recall it was supposed to be a spin-off from the Prometheus class without the MVA capability. For security focused captains, of which I was one of naturally.
“Perhaps today is a good day to die. Ramming speed!” and that helmsman didn’t even flinch when asked and prepared to suicide bomb the defiant into a borg cube. That’s the officer a captain like worf makes. Total bad asses, if not a bit to willing to follow that order 😂 good thing the enterprise arrived
I've always loved the Defiant. It would have been interesting to see what new ship we would have gotten in replacement of the Defiant after she was destroyed. I mean if there wasn't any time or budget constraints. I just wish they could have made the second Defiant with the São Paulo's registry instead of reusing the original NX registry.
It is kind of obscure lore, as a ship with no such name is featured in any Star Trek episode, only in games and in the encyclopedia...but love how there is a 'USS de Ruyter' a defiant class vessel named after the 17th century Dutch admiral 'Michiel de Ruyter'. de Ruyter was made famous for succesfully defeating the English, French and Spanish several times. A brilliant sailor first, and tactician second - who often won leading smaller fleets with comparatively smaller vessels compared to the English 'floating castles' and still win. Couldn't think of a more fitting ship in the Star Trek universe to carry his name.
Which mod do you use? I recently started playing again and I've been using Fleet Operations for Armada 2. I've been mostly using Defiants and Sovereigns; they're a really tough and hard-hitting pair together.
The Defiant has always been my favorite. A narrow use case, but damn near perfect at what it has to do. Able to rival Klingon designs for raw might, all while that extra "shake the ship apart" power harkins back to the old "Emergency War Power" aircraft used to have. Who needs to worry about extra repairs in an hour when you need the target dead NOW?
Great as always ... In my head you are a young officers on the swing shift reading Starfleet briefs on the delta Vega to Orion run ( you know the Starfleet equivalent of flying rubber dog poop out of hong Kong for the us army) you could do a whole episode on how Sisko and O'Brien basically perfected the pocket battle or super frigate for Starfleet. O'Brien was a true Master from Cardasian monstrosities to romulan cloaks.
The Defiant class is only "too aggressive" because of Star Fleet's insistence on designing exploration and diplomatic starships that have enough armaments to protect themselves. If Starfleet instead had lightly armed diplomatic, scientific, and exploration ships (all designed to be fast enough to escape engagements) and then also had a line of proper escort ships to protect those less armed ships then the statement of, "we don't build warships" would have more weight to it. Not to mention that you'd prevent the built in gunboat diplomacy when you roll up to a planet with a Galaxy class.
i also liked the original concept that the defiant was supposed to fight in groups of 5 or more amall fleets like wolves which would have been great to see. I imagine 20 defiant ship turning up to fight a BORG cube would have been impressive.
two Nerdy Thoughts on the Ship: 1. while the Idea of the "nose" beeing a Last Ditch Option is cool and also somewhat in the vein of the Saucer separation of the Constitution Class, it would have the ship beeing more or less a sitting Duck in a Battlefield without a Deflector. I wonder if they would have an small back-up deflectordish, like the ships in Star Wars always (in theory at least) have a Back-Up Hyperdrive so they could at least somewhat savely archive high impulse or Warp 1-2 2. we know that a cloak draws a low of power from a ship, so they don't can't also have shields and weapons ready and also do not archive high warp speeds like a Galaxie Class, but since the Defiant is quite a beefy Ship i wonder how much Energy it would in reserve and if they could, on a lower Powersetting, fire under cloak. of Course we never would seen it since well, it would not only go even more so against Federation principles but also would not do much of a great Storytelling having a cloaked ship that sneaks around and "stabbing the enemy in the back". I mean things happen in Story not do clever planning or a Power Tier List, but because they writer tells a Story.
I love the defiant, sovereign and Akita class because they show what the federation is actually capable of. Human ingenuity/intuition, Vulcan intelligence and everything else the other species contribute makes the federation an absolute force to be reckoned with. The Terran empire shows what would happen if the federation actually wanted to dominate everyone
My only gripe about the defiant is that it seems to vary in size depending on the episode it is in. Sometimes it is apparently 90 meters long, another it is 120, another it is 240m. Same goes to the station DS9, if i remember correctly the official size which is mentioned in the show is 1,300 diameters across which barely makes it bigger than a Romulan D'Deridex warbird
Actually 1452 metres, per the tie in Technical Manual, @Robin Burt . But at 170.688 m, the Defiant, if to consistent scale as VFX showed, would make DS9 a mile wide. So I think she may be smaller (even 397 ft/121 m) Minimum DS9 size at start was 1097 m (3600 ft) meanwhile. That does match the promenade windows, certainly.
Another big advantage of the class, due to its very small size, is that it's less resource intensive to manufacture. And it requires less personnel to crew it. Both are quite important factors during war time.
Remember in one episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine it was revealed that the Terran rebels of the mirror universe built their version of the Defiant to fight the Klngon/Cardassian/Bajoran alliance and with help.of Quark and his brother whole stole a Klingon cloaking device to save the Negus who went to the mIrror universe the Mirror Universe Defiant probably has that cloaking device now.
I originally thought of the Defiant simply as a testbed for new technologies, rather than an actual ship class. This would keep the ethos and aesthetics of Starfleet ship design inteact, whilst giving sisko his pimp-hand. Unfortunately, the producers and script writers had other ideas.
I don’t think one can make a fully capable starship while simultaneously making it a testbed. The whole idea of a testbed is that you take your time to test things out in a semi-controlled setting, not throwing it into the fires of combat. I think of the Defiant as a prototype, with the idea that it’s made as a fully functional warship with the experimental part being the concept of a warship working out for Starfleet. If the prototype works out for you then you put the class into production with only minor adaptations, if it doesn’t you just keep the prototype.
Technically the Defiant should have had the NX- destination before being reactivated. It was a testbed, but the original plan was to test, iron, and mass produce these ships.
I still want to know how they managed to fit a Runabout into the Defiant as when Odo abandons ship and takes Kira to the founders planet he does so in a Runabout
I was thinking. I heard at some point Worf is meant to become captain of the Enterprise-E. If that is so and if the Enterprise-F is in service at the time, would Worf do everything he can to make his Sovereign class starship even more combat capable. It does seem like something Worf would do as captain of such a ship, especially with more advanced ships coming into to play. The question is what could Worf do to make it more like a battlecruiser. All I can think of are things along the lines of what Captain Jellico had done on the Enterprise-D in the Chain of Command episodes. However you'd think there could be some kinds of modifications he could have engineering do over time that would make the ship more specialized and efficient in its tactical systems.
He'd have probably replaced the excess science systems with tactically oriented upgrades. Additional shield generators and perhaps ablative armor layers to add onto the defenses that are already there, and he would want an innovative engineer who could pump more power into the weapons systems than anyone else. As mentioned with the Defiant in this video, its incredible firepower comes from its unusual way of pumping power into its weapons. He would probably look for a way to capitalize on that technique and improve upon it. I can also see him finding ways to weaponize the deflector dish by drawing on the skills and knowledge of engineers and science offers, combining that with his tactical way of thinking. We see the deflector weaponized several times throughout multiple series. That said, I should watch the video on the Sovereign class in case there are things about it I've forgotten or don't know yet.
Actually it's amazing. Some of the Defiant variants are exceptional performers in the game's combat. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't enjoy something, or why you shouldn't. You can always find a way to make it work. And it can be fun along the way. It sounds like you still love it, and if you do - I would definitely encourage you to give it another shot and find your own way to have fun with it. It's your ship and your experience after all.
While it is hinted in the show that the Defiant more then just an escort ship, with so few crew accommodations it seems that really is just what it is. It wouldn't seem to make sense for Starfleet to want a ship that can't operate well on it's own, even in wartime. So an escort seems exactly the best way to use it, even if it might hit harder then the ship it's escorting. Assigning it to DS9 unique because of the political situation. They wanted to keep the Star Fleet presence in the Bajoran sector focused on the Bejoran co-run station, and not a fully crewed full-time star ship. So a ship the defiant size can give some strong protection, but still give a little more range and flexibility then just a wing of fighters, particularly when needing to take the occasional run through the wormhole.
Every member home world of the Federation should have had 1-10 of these guarding it depending on size of its empire. Since its only a small ship each member could have supplied its own materials and manpower. i think that would give a total of around 180-1800 ships. imagine the dominion exiting the wormhole and finding 180-1800 defiant class ships waiting for them.😵
Having seen this and voyager, I always thought "What'd happen if you took the tech Voyager brung back with the armor and torpedos and integrated them into the Defiant class?" The result would be a ship that would be not just tough but a incredibly dangerous target.
At least one dude who worked on the DS9 Tech Manual got weirdly offended and vaguely condescending about Star Trek Online and fans deciding the Defiant's impulse engine outlets were those red circular vents beside the warp engines - because his book placed the impulse engines in the rear, with the not-visible exhausts handwaved away as being stealth technology.
It's literally a submarine in space. Tight working quarters, special drive system, powerful offensive weapons, able to slip away undetected. I read somewhere that if a ship were to be made today for travel in space, a submarine would be a very viable solution.
@@mechanomics2649 I enjoy old "retro future" looking ships, like the Botany Bay from 'Space Seed', more like a sub than a starship. It really helps to make things more real and connects the past with the future.
Now all they needed was a compliment of Federation Marines trained in ship boarding, CQC and and ground tactics. You don’t send explorers into a war, you send the marines.
The Klingons would probably make a snarky remark about the Federation "Doesn't build warships" and then give them the traditional Klingon back slap and invite the captain for some Gah and some blood wine.
I feel like the defiant class would have worked well in its stated escort roll, I could see a battlegroup with 3-5 of these and a galaxy/sovereign. While the defiants would be pretty bare on amenities, they could rely on the flag vessel for that.
They could assign a couple of them to every starbase in the federation as defensive craft. Romulans would hesitate to pull some of their crap if they had to worry about a couple of Defiants jumping on them with both feet.
It’s quite simple. The Borg were coming, and all bets were off. I would have commissioned the most robust design possible to counter that threat, also with an eye toward the Dominion as well. Therefore, philosophical compromises had to be made.
Great video please can you make a video about the history of the TARDIS von Dr who it's law who designed and everything you could find thank you keep up your great work and love and prosper
I wonder if one of the reasons for the size of the Defiant, was ease of manufacturing? I would think it would be faster and easier to make 10 Defiant class ships, as opposed to one Sovereign class ship. On a personal note, the Defiant is my favorite starfleet vessel. ❤️
Definitely among the chief reasons I think. Easy/quick to produce, very maneuverable and hard to hit, tiny crew size, and can slip through openings other ships are literally too big to. Also considering it was originally designed to fight the Borg, I think Starfleet wanted to be able to throw tons of tiny, tough ships instead of massive bulwarks to combat cubes. With more room to maneuver, the Borg would have to contend with unstoppable swarms instead of fewer larger ships that would be getting in their own way.
9:26 To bad that wasn't seen in First Contact...you know instead Worf ordering ramming speed...have the Defiant use the last of its power to fire its nose cone filled with armed torps at the cube
The giant "nose torpedo" just screams of a couple engineers just looking at each other when designing it and going "I mean...we could...but should we?" and the head engineer slamming their romulan ale on the table and going "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT WE SHOULD" then collapsing unconscious. Edit: Oh if Sisko was involved in the design, then this was him.
At 30m tall that's actually a pretty sizable ship when you think about it. 30 meters is about 9 storys tall. Even if you take away a story or two for the amount the nacelles hang under the habitable part that's still 7 stories in 5 decks. The habitable space makes up about 3/4 of it's over all length and about half of it's width. That's the habitable space of nearly a football field and a half in length and width. That makes it roughly the size of three modern destroyers side by side of just habitable space. Granted there are larger ships in the fleet for sure but this isn't as small as most of us probably imagine it.
In the context of the Star Trek universe, I always wonder why the fascination with 'No creating war shipz'. It would make much more strategic sense for Starfleet to create a fleet of 'defiant like' drone ships/AI equipped, not warp capable but warped into a hotzone via a warp cabable mother ship. A lack of warp nacelles/crew areas could make the drone ships more compact or more armament storage. These ships could be kept on cold storage until a necessity arrives. This strategy would make much more sense for the peace/science/exploration focused Starfleet we know and love.
It was all about putting the firepower of the Galaxy class in the smallest possible frame. A big part of the allure was it's use as a test bed for experimental and illegal tech, plus the power plant and main systems were so overpowered for so small a hull that it's integrity was always collapsing from it simply shaking itself apart with it's own power. In layman's terms, it was more likely to destroy itself than the enemy was in most situations.
Cool ship. Starfleet should scale it up to be like 100x larger and put 20 warp cores in it though so they don’t have to deal with everyone else having bigger and more powerful ships.
"I find it wise to never underestimate the Federations technical skill. Nor Captain Sisko's resourcefulness" --Gul Dukat
"That’s why I ask for the Defiant she may have flaws, but she has teeth" - Benjamin Sisko
@@StarMandoForge poor captain sisko,, I believe he was quite fond of that ship
@@YDKJ07 Weyoun 7x20 The Changing Face of Evil
Sisko: I like my ships like I like my pimp hand. Fast, devastating and you never see it coming.
Or like the Andorians say, "Don't push the pink skins to the thin ice."
The Defiant-class is what happens when Starfleet stops fucking around. It produces a tiny warship capable of wrecking much larger vessels. For basically the same crew allotment as a single Galaxy-class you could have twenty Defiants... and there's not much that could handle that.
I personally loved what the ship represented as much as its cool design... the idea that the Federation _could_ be pushed too far, and when it was it could produce ships like the Defiant, and the Sovereign, and the Akira. The only reason why the Federation hasn't simply ended most of its enemies like the Romulans and Cardassians is because _it didn't want to._
The Mirror Universe's Terran Empire showcases petfectly what Humanity would be capable of if it indulged its capacity for warfare and conquest to its fullest potential.
I'm not sure if the Federation was pushed too far, so much as the Borg were not only an existential threat, but one that other avenues (outside of defeating in battle) were not available. They could not be negotiated with, surrender wouldn't yield survival, etc. They could only be defeated, or the Federation (and every other power) would inevitably fall, empowering it. Space Zombies and all that...
In a way SF should have kept the mantra of the 23rd century. While I understand Roddenberry wanting to move away from war, and that reflected with the next gen. The Borg was the right choice to punch SF in the nose that it badly needed, they became complacent.
@@angelphoenix7784 They were still complacent to the point of incompetence when the dominion war went hot and open conflict began, thinking a fleet of mostly decades old ships that had been refitted to modern technology could hold up to a battle fleet of a polity that had been doing it for who knows how long. They had been working on new ships after Wolf 359 but it wasn't urgent because no threat was looming. Then suddenly they're getting pasted in every battle and it's a scramble. When the Federation finally got it's industrial juggernaut going they were cranking out nearly only the combat designs and it started going better; Starfleet remembered how to wage conflict. It was a matter of survival at that point.
@@maverickjsmith8795 Very, true. the Borg were the ones that cause SF to start thinking of tactical ships and ways to defeat them. The Gamma Quadrant however, showed how SF needed these ships.
I love how Ira Steven Behr said that the Defiant was "on a five-year mission to kick ass."
"To seek out new lifeforms and make them dead"
@@TheSilverPhoenix100 to boldly blow where no starship is anymore
" These are the kills of the warship Defiant"
The Defiant alone should be a big message to the rest of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant Powers. "This is our first attempt at a dedicated military ship. Go ahead, force us to design BIGGER ones."
Aaaaand they ended up having to...
@@sagesheahan6732 Ala the Prometheus.
@@tachyontee3877
More like the Akira and the Sovereign
sovereign isnt really a warship doe@@Geats-IX
@@Geats-IXSovereign and Akira had other roles they could perform. While they were beefed up to fight the Borg, the Prometheus Class, like the Defiant Class, was made strictly for combat. The Defiant Class was a short-range warship. The Prometheus Class was a long-range warship.
I like the Lore that lead to the development of the defiant.
Benjamin Sisko lost his wife to the borg. Instead of doing something Picard would do, he turned his anger against the borg by building a ship to beat the borg. In turn the ship was to powerful for its own good and wanted to tear itself apart.
What I find even more interesting is that the Defiant was rarely used in combat the way it was intended. I describe it as, "The Defiant is a wolf and wolves hunt in packs." The Defiant was designed to close the distance and brawl with the enemy (this was shown in that one episode of Voyager). More often than not, the Defiant was fighting in duels or out numbered, when she was used they way she was intended, she fought beautifully.
I consider the Defiant the best example of Starfleet's "Fuck around and find out," mentality. It is small, unassuming, but packs the punch of a ship many times her size. The crew compliment was minuscule (a very great asset in combat if all hands are lost).
The Defiant was "Benjamin Sisko's mother fucking pimp hand," and it showed.
Sfdebris put it best:
"Picard faced the Borg and after it was done ruining his life he stood in his office drinking Earl Grey. Sicko faced the Borg and after it was done ruining his life he fumed at it from an escape pod then went off to design a ship whose only purpose is to kill Borg. It's a set of guns strapped to an engine. Then he called it Defiant. A name that practically shakes it's fist at the Borg. And that was his second choice. Starfleet felt that the U.S.S. Ben Sisko's Motherf%$&ing Pimphand was just too long."
ahh yes the scene of an Akira and two defiant classes trying to take out the Prometheus... a battle worthy of a Klingon.
One of the story Ideas for the war was to have a "Wolf pack" of Defiant class ships (4 in each pack) running around behind enemy lines. One would appear damaged or lost and when the Dominion attacked, the other 3 would decloak and attack. Because of budget restraints this idea was later reworked into the episode "Favor the Bold" and was just he Defiant and Klingon ship doing it.
They could also partner up with Saber escorts for this tactic.
Sounds nice, but only the Defiant had a cloak, not the class.
Once the Defiant was destroyed and the San Paulo was renamed, I don't believe it was ever installed with a cloak
@@brokedude9999 others have been seen with cloaks like the one with the academy students I believe.
Besides the writers would of found a way to add it to the lore, it was just something they wanted to do but had to scale it back.
@@jacara1981
I'm pretty sure the Romulans only gave 1 cloak to the Federation.
I believe the Valiant was a Red Squadron exclusive training vessel.
And it used some spacial anomaly to sneak up on the Gem H'Dar Battle Ship, I don't believe the Valiant used a Cloak.
If I remember correctly, the San Paulo/ Defiant didn't cloak at all on screen.
If I remember the Voyager episode for the Prometheus, the 2 Defiant Class with the Akira didn't Cloak either.
I'm fairly sure the Ship not the class had the cloak.
God I wish they had somewhat closer to the budget of modern prestige tv shows, or maybe just a 20 episode season.
Defiant: _brrrrrrrrtt_
A-10 Thunderbolt: "I'm proud of you, my grandchild."
The outbreak of the Dominion war and the Borg basically reminded Starfleet to follow Theodore Roosevelt's adage when it comes to dealing with conflicts: "Speak softly, and carry a big stick." The Defiant class is proof of the Federation showing how BIG they can make that stick.
Or small 😉
Less of a big stick, more lead pipe. Smaller size, bigger THUNK!
Small, but massif and spiked!
To quote Worf "Little."
It would have been appropriate to name a Defiant class USS Roosevelt.
There may be bigger, faster, even crazier or more technically accurate spacecraft but The Defiant is my all time favorite starship.
That cloaking device they lifted just puts it over the top.
"Lifting the cloak" made me think of Quark and Nog stealing that klingon cloaking device.
The Defiant's registry number was in honor of Gene Roddenberry's son Rod Roddenberry whose birthday is February 5th, 1974 (02/05/74) as he worked with the DS9 production crew in the art department.
That's awesome!
@Richard Gale actually, it's a nickname. His full name is Eugene Wesley Roddenberry, Jr.
Dude, I never knew that. That's amazing.
No wonder she was named the Defiant. As Ric pointed out several times, she _defied_ the Federation's emphasis on peaceful exploration and negotiation. About the only other thing they could have named her was "And The Horse You Rode In On."
"...and your little dog too!"
I always took it as it being Sisko’s F You to the Borg too.
The fans like to call it Sisko's Pimp hand that he uses to smack down B's that want to front on the federation and DS9 in particular.
You mess with the Sisko, you get the Slap!
That sounds more like the name of a Halo UNSC starship. Which if you don't know contain such awesome names as Pillar of Autumn, Forward Unto Dawn, Say My Name, and Bum Rush...
"Captain Sisko's pimp-hand!"
Still my favorite ship in STO. My Starfleet Klingon character ran one of these (the advanced version) with enough cannons to reduce most enemies to flaming wreckage... the USS Mor'Dakka.
One can always use more dakka.
Was it painted in checkers?
@@jwisemanm It was painted red so it would go fasta.
I can just see it, along with a Klingon ship operating in joint operations, the IKS Waaagh
@@Evil0tto I'd like to see a USS Spitfire NCC-74361 around somewhere...
The shields were also incredible powerful. Although they are a standard shield found on much larger ships, the small and compact size allowed the shield bubble to take a far greater amount of hits that a larger ship could take, this supposedly includes a warp-core detonation of nearby ships.
Also of note is the fact that the smaller target cross-section means those OP shields would not be hit very often. In EVE online we call these mean little buggers "Tactical Destroyers" and they are devastating little ships for sure!
The Defiant reminds me of a scene from Stargate GS1, where the team is training some rebels from the Goa'uld. Basically they hold up a Zak'natul staff weapon and say, "this is a weapon of terror" and promptly toss it aside. They hold up a FN P90 and say, "this is a weapon of war."
The Defiant is the P90. Borg Tactical Cubes are the staff weapon in this metaphor.
This comment is 95% accurate, but the last 5% feels like it was meant to drive Stargate fans crazy.
@GM Radio as an SG1 fan, maybe you are right, but I remember the episode they are referring to, and they are effectively correct in thier summation.
@@dantreadwell7421 That is the 95% I mentioned.
I mean the Cube is probably better than any Gou'ld anything lol
@Beau Svedson The Borg would take one look at the Goa’uld and go “You are not worthy of our Perfection.” ;D
The Pimp hand Of Commander Sisko is by far my favorite STNG ship, with the cloak as intended.
I understand Star Fleets reluctantness when thinking of the Defiant simply because, "If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail". 🤔
But conversely, if you refuse to build hammers you're stuck trying to pound nails with a textbook.
@@keiyakins Don't mind if I steal that line, because it's an amazing retort to that.
The Defiant does have two aft torpedo launchers. We see her fire them in several episodes and in "The Way of the Warrior" part 2, while rescuing Dukat and the Detapa Council, Dax tells Sisko that they've lost their aft torpedo launchers.
The only time that we actually see the aft torpedo launcher fired is with the Mirror Universe Defiant in "Shattered Mirror". It is only referenced in dialogue in "Way of the Warrior".
@@MattBurrill She also fires her aft torpedoes at the Lakota.
@@BammerD You are right. I forgot about that one.
For all its logistical flaws, I absolutely LOVE the Defiant.
As Sisko said: "She may have flaws, but she has teeth."
Siskos "pimp hand"😁
@@blackc1479 Siskos Righteous Pimp Hand.
@@RDPendleton The USS Sisko’s MFing Pimp Hand!
The Defiant is basically the Federations Bird of Prey.
At first I wanted to disagree, but there is stolen Romulan tech onboard.
"What if Trek had a Millennium Falcon?"
@@scottmillsap2376 The Millennium Falcon helped battle the borg cube in First Contact.
As comments on EC Henry’s video put it: “We are being assigned to a ship where our allies will be shooting at _us.”_
The Defiant is my favorite in Star Trek. One of my favorites in all of Sci-Fi.
10:09 the “Assimilate THIS!…” thing is pretty badass
It also served as Worf's home. He permanently moved his quarters aboard.
Less noise, more opportunity to blast klingon operas over intercom, and less comfortable than a cardassian military station.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Also makes it very hazardous for would-be Thomas Rikers to try stealing the ship.
That was some good character development. Late worf was an increasingly isolated and difficult person to like.
The Defiant was a game changer as ships built after it followed the same trend of minimal streamlined functionality. With more emphasis on compactness .
This has always been my favorite since DS9, even now many years later when I was on STO, once I got a Defiant Class, I stopped upgrading at least for a while. I'm not playing anymore and will one day go back and get a new ship, but this was my dream to captain a Defiant.
You can get max-tier versions and variants of the Defiant class in STO now. I flew one for a while and absolutely loved it. It even has those roll and dash maneuvers that the tiny pilot ships have, which lets you fly the ship as it was always intended to be - just like we saw in the show.
You could get the Valiant or the Adamant variants
While the Sovereign, Aikira, and Luna Captains have other tools, the Defiant is just a hammer.
As a former mechanic this made me chuckle. Most jobs require skill, patience, and a certain amount of delicately applied force using leverage, every once in a while you end up with a job where you have to reach for the 5lb sledge to give it nice hard smack in the face to properly motivate things. They are rare, but every once in a while, when you need it most, nothing else is going to be able to get the job done. :)
That's funny. My coworker been working on machines for 35 years and he said his favorite tool is his mini sledge hammer. Saved him from issues many a time
The UFP is the perfect example of why you should never mess with a "good man". They will smile and talk and negotiate their way out of every crisis they can, but the moment you put them in a corner, the Defiant comes out to put you back in place... and then you will be talking, negotiating and be smiled at on board of a Sovereign where before it would've been a Galaxy class.
In the Episode "The Search" Sisko says on screen that the defiant was a design meant to be operated in fleets to overwhelm the Borg. O'Brian asked why it wasn't finished, to which Sisko replied, "The Borg threat became less Urgent." and proceeded to add it had development problems. By Sisko's account it wasn't other projects doing better, it was simply politics. Starfleet was *terribly* and unforgivably complacent by TNG. A war with the Cardassians took over a decade. A polity that was a tiny fraction the size of the Federation and militarily a joke not even by comparison. The only way that happens is the Federation, and by extension, Starfleet didn't push it. The result is it dragged on and on, and ended in a treaty that caused so many problems for many peoples.
Sisko said it himself, nobody gets the frontier, Earth is paradise. What he meant is nobody thinks anything bad will happen because it's *over there* and so not a problem *for the people in paradise* , it's someone else's problem. The Federation's problem at the start of TNG and going into DS9 is indolence, and supreme arrogance. When they sent the Odyssey into the gamma quadrant, her Captain spoke so proudly and arrogantly like they'd already won. He died along with everyone on his ship and the dominion war began. The Dominion took it as an act of aggression, which it was, carried out poorly and incompetently.
The defiant is something Starfleet needed before DS9. If the politics of paradise hadn't gotten in the way, there'd likely be defiant's buzzing around watching star systems by the time DS9 started. Perhaps not a ton, stationed at border sectors, systems of import, etc, alongside and with other ships of the new generation of combat designs. The defiant is a prime example of politics, and public perception, ruining a good thing.
tl;dr Earth has no idea how close it got to going full cyberpunk horror and gave up on a good decision because it got complacent again because it decided the horror wouldn't ever happen again.
And they would have given up their soul the Defiant is a tool developed that goes against Starfleet's better nature to fight a foe that wouldn't see reason then brought back out to fight another foe that refused to see reason it is not a vessel they would want to just build
@@michaelkeha The Defiant was perfect for defense of key systems, such as home worlds. Take a squad of ten, dedicated to a system, with crews stationed on either a starbase, or planet side, and rotate crews for system patrols.
The Defiant Class has 4 forward torpedo launchers. Two dorsal and two ventral. You can see two ventral launchers in use in the Episode "For The Uniform".
The reason the ship was so powerful is that it was built with a power plant similar to that of the Galaxy class which is why it 'Nearly shook itself apart when the engines were tested at full capacity' by it's designer Commander Benjamin Sisko in the season 3 2 part episode 'The Search' though it was mentioned later on that they fixed those design flaws.
Yes in a Mirror Universe episode Sisko says to Smiley that "We had to overhaul the structural integrity field grids". This fix stopped it trying to tear itself apart.
To this day, the Defiant is still my favorite Star Fleet ship. I love the fact that it's small but powerful as it allows for more acrobatic flight patterns paired with it's impressive weaponry which is just more entertaining to watch than a huge mostly non-moving ship firing a laser beam at another huge and also mostly non-moving ship. I guess you can say that it feels more like an airplane than an ocean ship in that regard. Also, my favorite showcase of what the Defiant was capable of wasn't even technically done by "The Defiant" but by it's mirror universe counterpart when it totally messed up that huge battle cruiser whilst weaving deftly in between it's weapons fire.
Im currently in the middle of the episode of ds9 “defiant” (first time watching the series i was three months old when this episode aired) i paused to find out more about the ship. Your video is perfect for what i wanted to know without ruining the show
I also believe that push come to shove if star fleet ever found their backs against the wall again i have no doubt the admirals would clamor for warships while captains like Picard begged for a conpromise.
Honestly I could see a cut down version of this ship being great for system defense, maybe reduce the reactor slightly to make it cheaper and remove the shuttle pods as it would spend its time stationed on a surface base or in orbital stations. Any attacker will have to recon with these fast and deadily little ships allowing more resources to be freed up for other mission sets. If you loose one on the defense its only 50 people and has probably damaged or crippled a much bigger and more expensive ship which is key in deterring aggression or making it so they need to spend more to do be able to take your worlds.
I personally have always found the Defiant and it’s various types to be the Federations version of a Klingon Bird of Prey and I’m certainly not complaining about that
I like the defiant class but I will always love the akira class.
Gotta say, love the original design, but some of the Star Trek Online designs are awesome.
Especially the Valiant Class, the Sau Paulo is nice too, the adamant is cool as well, the others not so much. I pretty much always run a mix of the Valiant with the Sau Paulo nose, or the legendary defiant nose with the decal. Sometimes I'll use a terrain adamant main hull but the rest is the same as the other.
Pair a few Defiants with a few Sabres with a Sovereign or Galaxy in the lead and you have a mighty task force.
The USS Defiant and the Defiant class is one of my fav Ships in Sci-Fi
The detachable nose super torpedo makes a lot of sense if you're fighting a super gigantic borg cube that just wont go down. Poke a hole in the cube and then fill it with the biggest anti matter weapon you can manage
Exactly. Which is probably the lore-reason for never seeing Defiant class ships do this in the shows. It was just far less practical against the smaller and more maneuverable ships the Dominion was throwing at them. Though it would probably work well against the larger battleships that started showing up towards the end of the series.
Downside is that you throw away all of your forward torpedo armament if used as anything other than a final stand. Going back to Starfleet after every other mission asking for another nose and 50-odd torpedoes would lead to some interesting discussions.
Awesome video! Defiant and Sovereign class are my all-time favorites.
Very nice job, Mister CI.
This ship was like one of my favourites, and cozier 🖖
It's like not going to be lots of these designs, practical and not that "beautiful"
A small gripe about the Defiant class, though I do love it: Making it possible to build a ship with the power of the Defiant class at its size and crew was an error by the production team-at least in so far as there were more than one of them. As it was only about one tenth the size of the sovereign class (by mass) and with about one twentieth the crew, if the Defiant was stable enough to serve at Deep Space Nine, there’s no reason Starfleet would have ever paused the program unless there were significant reasons why such tiny ships weren’t good allocations of their resources. One of the more plausible in-universe reasons Starfleet wouldn’t build a fleet of them is the supposition that a Defiant class ship costs (in terms of resource allocation) significantly more to produce and maintain than Galaxy and Sovereign class ships, like for one Defiant class they could have five Sovereign class ships due to how difficult it is to manufacture a ship with the hull density of the Defiant class and/or other such factors. Maybe even throw in that they are finicky and need frequent maintenance that can only be done while docked at a starbase or space station with its resources-make them out to be ships that cannot serve on prolonged detachments or campaigns.
Perhaps that was the original intent, but it seems that too many Defiant class ships have been seen on screen for that. And the prolonged “campaign” of the Valiant behind Dominion derails the maintenance idea.
A further problem is that if the Federation can pull off something like the Defiant class, the Klingons and the Romulans, who care a lot less about exploration and more military efficiency, should at least approximate it. Certainly Martok, as commander of Klingon forces for much of the war, would have requisitioned such an enhanced Bird of Prey for himself, at least for its offensive capabilities.
I love this ship in any Star Trek show. My favorite Defiant moment is in the Mirror Universe during DS9 where Sisko takes the helm to beat up the big Klingon Vessel Worf was commanding. The second, that blew my mind, was two Defiant Class ships plus an Akira (I think) taking on the Prometheus and some Romulans during the Voyager episode where the Doctor get transferred to the Alpha Quadrant. Does anyone else have a favorite Defiant ship moment?
When Worf orders to engage ramming speed and then Picard ruins his good day to die.
Awesome ship!!! Great back story too! Great video!
The Defiant was the best on screen, it was fast, deadly, accurate and impressive. In fact, I had lots of fun watching it.
Riker: tough little ship
Worf: little (scowl look) 😁
I love the Defiant so much. It just screams out the mental trauma that humanity had gone through because of the Borg. I mean a part of the ship literally detaches not so that it can deliver crew to safety but as a final ditch attempt to *blow up another ship*. Even Klingons would think that was too hard core.
The fact that Sisko designed it confirms that the Defiant is just humanity saying "DON'T MAKE US ANGRY YOU WOULDN'T LIKE US WHEN WE'RE ANGRY!" in the angriest way possible. I love it but I can see how it couldn't possibly belong in an enlightened human spacefaring fleet.
Another commenter here said it well: the Defiant represents that all these aggressive races like the Klingons and the Romulans and the Cardassians are kind of allowed to exist because humans decided that they didn't want to be genocidal maniacs, *because they could do it and few other races could stop them.*
If you haven't already, a breakdown of the Yorktown class (ENT Era) would be interesting
One of my favourite ship. A no nonsense ship that was needed after the opulence of the Galaxy Class.
This coincides with the release of the USS Defiant in Star Trek Fleet Command as well. Great video as always!
The Defiant is basically _a Starfleet version of the Kligon Bird of Prey,_ occupying the same niche and concept of a pure attack ship … and it eats BOP's for breakfast.
Imagine if the Federation utilised it the same way the Kligon Empire deploys BOP's? Having a few for each system and as a short range patrol ship would make the Federation a very tough nut to crack, and make life very hard for Raiders and Pirates - no more colonies and outpost being attacked by "rogue ships" of other powers.
And what if Starfleet upscaled the concept to make frigate and battlecruiser versions of the Defiant concept?
But just a large number of Defiants could be useful for the large multirole ships, as they could actually live up to their _classification_ and be assigned as escorts. The Kligons and the Dominion utilised this with their larger ships generally having attack ships escorting them.
Just a Nebula class with a Sensor pod (or a Intrepid class), accompanied by a few Defiants, suddenly becomes a order of magnitude more powerful. The multirole ship can provide the logistical support the Defiants lack for long range missions.
The Enterprise - E with a flotilla of _just four_ Defiants would have taken out the Scimitar without much effort.
It's like a L.A.V. 3 for infantry, just an all around purposeful war machine.
I do wonder if you will talk about the “Cerberus” class from STO. As I recall it was supposed to be a spin-off from the Prometheus class without the MVA capability. For security focused captains, of which I was one of naturally.
Can you think of a better name for a prometheus class than the Cerberus! :D
USS Eternal Flame
“Perhaps today is a good day to die. Ramming speed!” and that helmsman didn’t even flinch when asked and prepared to suicide bomb the defiant into a borg cube. That’s the officer a captain like worf makes. Total bad asses, if not a bit to willing to follow that order 😂 good thing the enterprise arrived
0:16 - What's the music, please?
I loved when jadzia said to her crewmates on DS9 that if you think the defiant is cramped try being on a Klingon bird of prey for several weeks😊
I've always loved the Defiant. It would have been interesting to see what new ship we would have gotten in replacement of the Defiant after she was destroyed.
I mean if there wasn't any time or budget constraints. I just wish they could have made the second Defiant with the São Paulo's registry instead of reusing the original NX registry.
It is kind of obscure lore, as a ship with no such name is featured in any Star Trek episode, only in games and in the encyclopedia...but love how there is a 'USS de Ruyter' a defiant class vessel named after the 17th century Dutch admiral 'Michiel de Ruyter'. de Ruyter was made famous for succesfully defeating the English, French and Spanish several times. A brilliant sailor first, and tactician second - who often won leading smaller fleets with comparatively smaller vessels compared to the English 'floating castles' and still win.
Couldn't think of a more fitting ship in the Star Trek universe to carry his name.
This 'ingame' channel is more lore-friendly than supposed lore-friendly channels, I love it.
1:00 USS Lionheart is such a good name for a defiant ❤
In my preferred mod of Star Trek Armada, the Defiant class is the battleship class I use. To make it distinct from the gigantic D'deridex and Negh'Var
Which mod do you use? I recently started playing again and I've been using Fleet Operations for Armada 2. I've been mostly using Defiants and Sovereigns; they're a really tough and hard-hitting pair together.
The Defiant has always been my favorite. A narrow use case, but damn near perfect at what it has to do. Able to rival Klingon designs for raw might, all while that extra "shake the ship apart" power harkins back to the old "Emergency War Power" aircraft used to have. Who needs to worry about extra repairs in an hour when you need the target dead NOW?
Great as always ... In my head you are a young officers on the swing shift reading Starfleet briefs on the delta Vega to Orion run ( you know the Starfleet equivalent of flying rubber dog poop out of hong Kong for the us army) you could do a whole episode on how Sisko and O'Brien basically perfected the pocket battle or super frigate for Starfleet. O'Brien was a true Master from Cardasian monstrosities to romulan cloaks.
The Defiant class is only "too aggressive" because of Star Fleet's insistence on designing exploration and diplomatic starships that have enough armaments to protect themselves. If Starfleet instead had lightly armed diplomatic, scientific, and exploration ships (all designed to be fast enough to escape engagements) and then also had a line of proper escort ships to protect those less armed ships then the statement of, "we don't build warships" would have more weight to it. Not to mention that you'd prevent the built in gunboat diplomacy when you roll up to a planet with a Galaxy class.
Favorite ship of all the series . 5hx for the video
spectacular cheers from venezuela amaizing video
Thanks Rick.
Great work as usual.
i also liked the original concept that the defiant was supposed to fight in groups of 5 or more amall fleets like wolves which would have been great to see. I imagine 20 defiant ship turning up to fight a BORG cube would have been impressive.
two Nerdy Thoughts on the Ship:
1. while the Idea of the "nose" beeing a Last Ditch Option is cool and also somewhat in the vein of the Saucer separation of the Constitution Class, it would have the ship beeing more or less a sitting Duck in a Battlefield without a Deflector. I wonder if they would have an small back-up deflectordish, like the ships in Star Wars always (in theory at least) have a Back-Up Hyperdrive so they could at least somewhat savely archive high impulse or Warp 1-2
2. we know that a cloak draws a low of power from a ship, so they don't can't also have shields and weapons ready and also do not archive high warp speeds like a Galaxie Class, but since the Defiant is quite a beefy Ship i wonder how much Energy it would in reserve and if they could, on a lower Powersetting, fire under cloak.
of Course we never would seen it since well, it would not only go even more so against Federation principles but also would not do much of a great Storytelling having a cloaked ship that sneaks around and "stabbing the enemy in the back". I mean things happen in Story not do clever planning or a Power Tier List, but because they writer tells a Story.
"It's on a five year mission to kick ass" - Ira Steven Behr
You always have the best schematics of the ships. Where do you find such high quality versions of them?
I love the defiant, sovereign and Akita class because they show what the federation is actually capable of. Human ingenuity/intuition, Vulcan intelligence and everything else the other species contribute makes the federation an absolute force to be reckoned with. The Terran empire shows what would happen if the federation actually wanted to dominate everyone
My only gripe about the defiant is that it seems to vary in size depending on the episode it is in.
Sometimes it is apparently 90 meters long, another it is 120, another it is 240m.
Same goes to the station DS9, if i remember correctly the official size which is mentioned in the show is 1,300 diameters across which barely makes it bigger than a Romulan D'Deridex warbird
Actually 1452 metres, per the tie in Technical Manual, @Robin Burt . But at 170.688 m, the Defiant, if to consistent scale as VFX showed, would make DS9 a mile wide. So I think she may be smaller (even 397 ft/121 m)
Minimum DS9 size at start was 1097 m (3600 ft) meanwhile. That does match the promenade windows, certainly.
Another big advantage of the class, due to its very small size, is that it's less resource intensive to manufacture. And it requires less personnel to crew it. Both are quite important factors during war time.
Remember in one episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine it was revealed that the Terran rebels of the mirror universe built their version of the Defiant to fight the Klngon/Cardassian/Bajoran alliance and with help.of Quark and his brother whole stole a Klingon cloaking device to save the Negus who went to the mIrror universe the Mirror Universe Defiant probably has that cloaking device now.
I originally thought of the Defiant simply as a testbed for new technologies, rather than an actual ship class. This would keep the ethos and aesthetics of Starfleet ship design inteact, whilst giving sisko his pimp-hand.
Unfortunately, the producers and script writers had other ideas.
I don’t think one can make a fully capable starship while simultaneously making it a testbed. The whole idea of a testbed is that you take your time to test things out in a semi-controlled setting, not throwing it into the fires of combat. I think of the Defiant as a prototype, with the idea that it’s made as a fully functional warship with the experimental part being the concept of a warship working out for Starfleet. If the prototype works out for you then you put the class into production with only minor adaptations, if it doesn’t you just keep the prototype.
Technically the Defiant should have had the NX- destination before being reactivated. It was a testbed, but the original plan was to test, iron, and mass produce these ships.
I still want to know how they managed to fit a Runabout into the Defiant as when Odo abandons ship and takes Kira to the founders planet he does so in a Runabout
Its bigger on the inside? They folded up the Runabout?
Was it a runabout tho? I thought it was a much smaller craft.
It wasn't a runabout. Odo explicitly says they're aboard a shuttlecraft when Kira asks the question "Where am I?"
Type-18 shuttlepod (about 15 ft long)
It had gull wing doors. A runabout doesn't have those
I was thinking. I heard at some point Worf is meant to become captain of the Enterprise-E. If that is so and if the Enterprise-F is in service at the time, would Worf do everything he can to make his Sovereign class starship even more combat capable. It does seem like something Worf would do as captain of such a ship, especially with more advanced ships coming into to play. The question is what could Worf do to make it more like a battlecruiser. All I can think of are things along the lines of what Captain Jellico had done on the Enterprise-D in the Chain of Command episodes. However you'd think there could be some kinds of modifications he could have engineering do over time that would make the ship more specialized and efficient in its tactical systems.
He'd have probably replaced the excess science systems with tactically oriented upgrades. Additional shield generators and perhaps ablative armor layers to add onto the defenses that are already there, and he would want an innovative engineer who could pump more power into the weapons systems than anyone else. As mentioned with the Defiant in this video, its incredible firepower comes from its unusual way of pumping power into its weapons. He would probably look for a way to capitalize on that technique and improve upon it. I can also see him finding ways to weaponize the deflector dish by drawing on the skills and knowledge of engineers and science offers, combining that with his tactical way of thinking. We see the deflector weaponized several times throughout multiple series.
That said, I should watch the video on the Sovereign class in case there are things about it I've forgotten or don't know yet.
I remember being so excited to get a Defiant ship only to be told at great length how much it sucks in STO.
Actually it's amazing. Some of the Defiant variants are exceptional performers in the game's combat. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't enjoy something, or why you shouldn't. You can always find a way to make it work. And it can be fun along the way. It sounds like you still love it, and if you do - I would definitely encourage you to give it another shot and find your own way to have fun with it. It's your ship and your experience after all.
While it is hinted in the show that the Defiant more then just an escort ship, with so few crew accommodations it seems that really is just what it is. It wouldn't seem to make sense for Starfleet to want a ship that can't operate well on it's own, even in wartime. So an escort seems exactly the best way to use it, even if it might hit harder then the ship it's escorting.
Assigning it to DS9 unique because of the political situation. They wanted to keep the Star Fleet presence in the Bajoran sector focused on the Bejoran co-run station, and not a fully crewed full-time star ship. So a ship the defiant size can give some strong protection, but still give a little more range and flexibility then just a wing of fighters, particularly when needing to take the occasional run through the wormhole.
Every member home world of the Federation should have had 1-10 of these guarding it depending on size of its empire. Since its only a small ship each member could have supplied its own materials and manpower. i think that would give a total of around 180-1800 ships. imagine the dominion exiting the wormhole and finding 180-1800 defiant class ships waiting for them.😵
Having seen this and voyager, I always thought "What'd happen if you took the tech Voyager brung back with the armor and torpedos and integrated them into the Defiant class?"
The result would be a ship that would be not just tough but a incredibly dangerous target.
At least one dude who worked on the DS9 Tech Manual got weirdly offended and vaguely condescending about Star Trek Online and fans deciding the Defiant's impulse engine outlets were those red circular vents beside the warp engines - because his book placed the impulse engines in the rear, with the not-visible exhausts handwaved away as being stealth technology.
It's literally a submarine in space. Tight working quarters, special drive system, powerful offensive weapons, able to slip away undetected.
I read somewhere that if a ship were to be made today for travel in space, a submarine would be a very viable solution.
The submarine aesthetic was also why I liked the NX-01.
@@mechanomics2649 I enjoy old "retro future" looking ships, like the Botany Bay from 'Space Seed', more like a sub than a starship. It really helps to make things more real and connects the past with the future.
Now all they needed was a compliment of Federation Marines trained in ship boarding, CQC and and ground tactics. You don’t send explorers into a war, you send the marines.
The Klingons would love the Defiant, it’s right up their street, so to speak.
Federation Bird of Prey!
The Klingons would probably make a snarky remark about the Federation "Doesn't build warships" and then give them the traditional Klingon back slap and invite the captain for some Gah and some blood wine.
I feel like the defiant class would have worked well in its stated escort roll, I could see a battlegroup with 3-5 of these and a galaxy/sovereign. While the defiants would be pretty bare on amenities, they could rely on the flag vessel for that.
They could assign a couple of them to every starbase in the federation as defensive craft. Romulans would hesitate to pull some of their crap if they had to worry about a couple of Defiants jumping on them with both feet.
There is a letter missing in the title (s) it should read (Class) not (clas) .
It’s quite simple. The Borg were coming, and all bets were off. I would have commissioned the most robust design possible to counter that threat, also with an eye toward the Dominion as well. Therefore, philosophical compromises had to be made.
Great video please can you make a video about the history of the TARDIS von Dr who it's law who designed and everything you could find thank you keep up your great work and love and prosper
I wonder if one of the reasons for the size of the Defiant, was ease of manufacturing? I would think it would be faster and easier to make 10 Defiant class ships, as opposed to one Sovereign class ship.
On a personal note, the Defiant is my favorite starfleet vessel. ❤️
Definitely among the chief reasons I think. Easy/quick to produce, very maneuverable and hard to hit, tiny crew size, and can slip through openings other ships are literally too big to. Also considering it was originally designed to fight the Borg, I think Starfleet wanted to be able to throw tons of tiny, tough ships instead of massive bulwarks to combat cubes. With more room to maneuver, the Borg would have to contend with unstoppable swarms instead of fewer larger ships that would be getting in their own way.
9:26 To bad that wasn't seen in First Contact...you know instead Worf ordering ramming speed...have the Defiant use the last of its power to fire its nose cone filled with armed torps at the cube
And it turned out that ends up being what kills the cube
The giant "nose torpedo" just screams of a couple engineers just looking at each other when designing it and going "I mean...we could...but should we?" and the head engineer slamming their romulan ale on the table and going "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT WE SHOULD" then collapsing unconscious.
Edit: Oh if Sisko was involved in the design, then this was him.
Either that or someone had their ammo cook off in Battletech one too many times.
At 30m tall that's actually a pretty sizable ship when you think about it. 30 meters is about 9 storys tall. Even if you take away a story or two for the amount the nacelles hang under the habitable part that's still 7 stories in 5 decks. The habitable space makes up about 3/4 of it's over all length and about half of it's width. That's the habitable space of nearly a football field and a half in length and width. That makes it roughly the size of three modern destroyers side by side of just habitable space. Granted there are larger ships in the fleet for sure but this isn't as small as most of us probably imagine it.
Not only is she a tough little ship, she's the sexiest design in Starfleet.
The nose is also where the deflector dish is located, so launching it would have caused the ship to not be able to go to warp.
Yeah, I think it's an absolute last resort move where it's absolutely critical to damage or destroy a target at all costs.
In the context of the Star Trek universe, I always wonder why the fascination with 'No creating war shipz'. It would make much more strategic sense for Starfleet to create a fleet of 'defiant like' drone ships/AI equipped, not warp capable but warped into a hotzone via a warp cabable mother ship. A lack of warp nacelles/crew areas could make the drone ships more compact or more armament storage. These ships could be kept on cold storage until a necessity arrives. This strategy would make much more sense for the peace/science/exploration focused Starfleet we know and love.
I remember all those preproduction sketches in star trek magazine in the 90s
It was all about putting the firepower of the Galaxy class in the smallest possible frame. A big part of the allure was it's use as a test bed for experimental and illegal tech, plus the power plant and main systems were so overpowered for so small a hull that it's integrity was always collapsing from it simply shaking itself apart with it's own power. In layman's terms, it was more likely to destroy itself than the enemy was in most situations.
"she may have flaws, but she has teeth.'
Capt. Benjamin Sisko
Cool ship. Starfleet should scale it up to be like 100x larger and put 20 warp cores in it though so they don’t have to deal with everyone else having bigger and more powerful ships.