This is not just about protecting a minor from legal actions but this is more about fair competition. Where is fairness to this? Principal: Athletes who dopes cannot compete in any games. All players efforts and dreams are equally precious.
1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates. 2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules. Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later. It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through. IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics. That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
I wrote my comment a "long time ago", although it's only been 6 weeks maybe )) I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance. Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none. To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned. It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is. I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.
Athletes like Rika Kihira and Brady Tennel ended up with severe injuries trying to compete with the Sambo 70 girls doing these quads (which we all suspect is a result of doping now). And because of these injuries, they can't compete in the Olympics. What aboiut the irreparable harm done to them? The ISU/IOC are a joke.
This decision means you can get away with anything if you are under age. Who is protecting the sport and more importantly the other athletes? This organization should protect athletes who follow the rules.
The latest defense is that she accidentally drank from her grandfather's glass of water, who allegedly takes TMZ for his heart condition, and that contaminated her test result which was taken prior to her National's competition on Christmas. Ignoring the fact that the Russian Nationals took place in St. Petersburg and her grandfather is reported to live in Kazan - some 750 miles apart from each other - the mental gymnastics needed to believe that story would give everyone the twisties.
I'm at the point right now where I'm not going to Google it. It sounds utterly farcical, so that's in character. I'm going to quietly have an aneurysm now. This is just the *end*.
This is so sick and unfair to all skaters!!! I'm not going to watch her routine at the women's skating program. I'm going to turn off the tv. I REFUSE TO WATCH A DOPING SKATER!!!!!!
This is the death of any hope for clean olympics. The message is clear: as long as minors are included, they can be doped and allowed to compete. So any of those estate funded doping programs and abusive coaches, you are good to go. I see so many comments of fans saying "yay good for Kamila" and I feel they are not understanding the seriousness of the situation (except russians because for them Kamila is a propaganda of their country's greatness). This makes me so sad because they don't worry about Kamila's wellbeing, only that she gets a medal. She is young and could have a shot at 19 in the next olympics (well assuming she endures 4 more years). But we all know how this ends: she will win and then go into obscurity like the previous champs before her. Rinse and Repeat.
I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance. Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none. To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned. It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is. I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.
There is something machine-like in the consistency of the Eteri girls pre puberty that it definitely appears plausible that the Sambo 70 system includes doping.
If kamilla is allowed to compete after there were drugs found in her body then i dont know what world we live in anymore… it is a fact that drugs were found and that is so dissapointing, she was a good skater, but if they let her compete then its a spit in the face to her clean competitors.. why would anyone want to compete against someone who uses doping? She could still skate in the next olympics it she is clean.. i dont see the issue if she were to be disqualified and her result nullified. I dont understand why underage atheletes are not punished for taking drugs.. its illegal and they should be facing justice.. if i was underage and found guilty of cosumption of drugs i would go to prison guaranteed this rule is so weird..
she was no more doped than her fellow Russians. All other athletes are also doped according to their country's practice. Using legal substances. A trace substance is NOT something to give cause for performance enhancement and could be due to a drug manufacturing error.
Imagine, guys, if Nathan had had a positive test before the OG, he would have been expelled to the universe. The decision was definitely not fair to the other athletes and the soul of the Olympic Games in general.
So why was Russia in all the Olympics in the first place when they cheated in 2014?? Again she doped in December, nothing was seen before and after December, after the gold medal December's result showed up, the court members are all from anti-russian countries but they still said she can compete... so why are we even ranting when nothing will happen?
I'm sorry but I hardly disagree with this decision. IMO this is not a win for Kamila but rather a win for Eteri as this basically validates that it's okay for doping a minor. They're sending this dangerous message instead of cracking down on the institution and pressing pause on this. Any other athletes who get positive test will be suspended right away while waiting for further investigation (like testing the B sample, etc.). Doping allegation is serious and during the Olympic nonetheless with the "Olympic movement" and "clean sport" this decision is setting up bad precedence for future cases. Now with all this drama, Kamila's mental state is probably at breaking point now (what 15 y.o trained for this situation) and she has to compete with this state of mind and if she places on the podium, no medal ceremony will be given. Imagine what other athletes have to feel right now knowing that you have to compete against athlete that (allegedly) has taken PED and if she wins she will rob your Olympic experience as well by not having the medal ceremony. There are so many wrong things here just to accommodate ROC (again). If after this the age limit is not raised because of this BS "protected minor" misalignment definition between ISU and WADA rules then I don't know what will. Minors should not compete against adults in the first place.
My heart breaks for the Kamila. I wish her the best bc there is gonna be a HUGE backlash for her future skating endeavors. But I do believe the correct answer should have been to ban her from the Olympics. That being said, since they had gone ahead and allowed her to compete for the individual competition, as a compromise, she can skate in the event, but have her results be nullified; I could find that fair enough. I am glad they will be adding an additional person for the FS. Unfortunately, this is going to send the wrong message to the world about doping. Maybe they will make an Eteri Rule or a Valieva Rule after this Olympics....who knows? But we should be compassionate for Kamila, nevertheless. Not an easy situation to be in.
1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates. 2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules. Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later. It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through. IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics. That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
@@Dan-uf2vh Trace is not consistent with someone who was accidentally sharing a glass with grandpa. A trace means it was 200x higher than that and indicates it was consistent with someone who was doping at the tail end of leaving their system. She is 100 percent guilty. The minor protected status is supposed to be for privacy and not to criminalize them but Russian media outed her. Protected doesn't mean you get to cheat and still participate.
@@rajs7876 The guilty party is really the entourage and you can bet drugging went undetected for the rest. Also, that substance certainly had next to zero effect compared to everything else (cocktails of drugs that aren't banned, including those that delay maturity, massive dieting and overtraining). WADA, the IOC, the ROC and Tuberitze's team of doctors all need to be sanctioned for their lack of proper drug classification, proper drug testing, and the abuse going on. In the existing conditions, all the shunning and null ceremony constitute the actions of a bunch of bullies, inept and taking it out on an innocent person. Performance enhancement strictly referring to that banned substance was total nonsense, based purely on politics and mass hysteria. They didn't even bother to determine if she was drugged all year round using hair sampling and more testing that should have gone on year long, thereby preventing the doctors from considering it as a risk acceptable measure.
She should be out. I don’t care her age. She was doping either knowingly or unknowingly. This doesn’t change that she cheated to try to gain a competitive advantage. It is not fair to the other skaters who did not cheat. To those who say let her compete and later she may get her medals stripped - this also is not fair to the other skaters especially the ones who medal. If she wins, she will stand on top of the podium and get her gold medal and all the accolades that come with that. And the skater who finishes in fourth will get nothing. Stripping the medals months later will not fix that situation as no one will remember who later was moved up to medal positions as a result. They will only remember that the cheater was stripped. Not fair. This is a bad decision and a bad precedent to set.
I wasn't shocked, I expected her to be allowed to skate, there's a loop hole, she's under age, so the rules don't apply to her and the ROC knows that. so they used it to their advantage.
Absolutely a wrong ruling. Valieva should not be allowed to compete. It’s absolutely a slap in the face to other competitors, but most of my anger is directed to the entire Tutberidze method of and “school of training.” She is hailed by the Russian government for her contribution to the advancement of their entire sports teams…etc etc. She continues to work these girls so hard that their bodies break down, even to the extent that their injuries may result in permanent, life-long health problems and physical disability. Her “expiration date” on her skaters is reprehensible. Basically once a skater is no longer prepubescent and not “producing,” she brings in her next “stable” of 13-14 year old skaters groomed to win Jr. and Senior national competition until they are old enough to compete at the Senior level in international competition. She knowingly and purposely dopes them, among other outrageous training techniques. But I digress. I put this doping incident firmly on her shoulders. That is NOT to say that Valieva has no responsibility here. She should not be allowed to compete. But until the ruling bodies place sanctions against specific schools/team coaches (in all Russian sports), doping will continue, especially in questionable coaching techniques, including the Tutberidze coaching techniques, which use doping as a training aid need to bear at least SOME of the responsibility and actual sanctions.
Last Olympics we had to make the Zigitova rule so they no longer can do all their jumps in the 2nd half for bonuses so the best skater in the world can actually win the gold vs a jumping robot.😉 Now they’ll have to come up with the Velieva rule, if you’re 15 or younger you can’t take the “special vitamin” that we usually put in the handful of pills we give you to keep you healthy. 😏 I’m just can’t stop thinking about the 3 ROC girls who are Thursty because Eteri forbids them from swallowing. They are only allowed to rinse & spit. So cruel!!!!! 😢
It’s not just cruel to keep Medvedeva, etc. from drinking water, it doesn’t even make sense from a medical standpoint! Physical performance is worse when you’re dehydrated.
In the end I feel terrible for Kamila, she’s a young girl with trainers treating her like a show pony. Now all the added pressure; it’s not her fault. You can tell she’s been working so hard doping or not, don’t take it out on this young girl.
I’m definitely not watching skating anymore. This is the straw the broke tha camel’s back. FS has officially ceased being a sport. It’s simply a psyop.
Agree completely about the GOE, PCS corruption. Even disregarding Russians. For instance, look at the grossly inflated GOE and PCS Kaori(Fed fav) gets, in Japan especially, vs what Higuchi (Fed hates) gets. They are comparable technically and Higuchi is far superior artistically and presentation wise,but the scores are reversed for them. Joke sport.
The decision was fair. CAS did not rule on Kamila’s guilt or innocence. They merely decided that it would be unfair to lift her ban especially when the notice was so late that she would not have had the opportunity to mount the proper defense. If found guilty later on, she would be stripped of her medal. But if she was found innocent and was still suspended, she was robbed of a chance to compete. Please note that procedurally, her automatic suspension was already lifted by Rusada, so the onus on the appeal is on WADA, not Kamila. But why Rusada is the one deciding to lift her suspension seems shady to say the least. But for all intents and purposes, rules were being followed. I agree with the decision.
Just watching the documentary of how Eteri Tuberitze push her trainees to the point that they get anorexia, serious injuries, she even make someone trained while injured… I’m not surprised she will do whatever to secure a win. They just need to raise the age eligibility to 18 to be able compete at a senior level.
This is appalling. As another former skater, I always looked forward to the Olympics; it's a highlight. And now this is utterly farcical, appalling and enraging. I've been going on about this since the first peep, so I'll save my breath, but under *any* name, give Team Russia/OAR/ROC their ban and ENFORCE IT.
Watch your team, even though it's shocking, The funniest thing is that whether we like it or not, Russia is still going to be at the Olympics for generations..Why in the first place are they not outrightly banned? What is ROC when even a high schooler vast in current news knows that they are Russians? Shaming? Well who gets to be shamed now? Definitely not the Russians because they will celebrate at home and we will continue to rant abroad... we all ranted giving it to China and here we are watching our teams doing the global sports... rant all you want, that's the way the world goes, might is right!!!
you don't have to watch for competitive reason's why do people care about the competitve element of figure skating anyways, when it is so subjective and artistic? i've never understood that... watch it cause kaori sakamoto is a goddess in the flesh and deserves acknowledgement, ya know? the viewer perception of the sport can make a huge positive impact and change on the sport as well, possibly. its worth a try.
@@tvtda1 As for me, I rarely watch galas and I like competing, so I prefer to watch competitions - figure skating is a sport after all. And why am I not going to continue watching now? It was already difficult for me to accept the judges' not entirely fair scoring, and if I have to think how eg. our briliant Kaori is supposed to feel when competing with doped-up kid, I don't have the nerve for it. Figure skating was (and still is when it comes to the men's category) my happy place, and as a very stress-prone person, I just don't want to spoil my health. I know not everyone will understand this, but mental hygiene is important to me, so I avoid toxic stuff. If someone feels like it - let them watch. I am simply outgrown with it :(
Like the grinch that stole Christmas thinking it was all about the presents, cheaters think the Olympics is all about the medals and it’s not. It’s about the athletes’ love of it and that will always live on. Go Mariah and Karen and TeamUSA!
i feel bad but like there's difficulty in protecting young people in a sport that continues to grow younger and younger. This is seperate from the conversation about the age limit for competing at the highest level for health purposes, thats gonna need to have some science and analytical data backing its case when its presented. Theres a case for limiting age to just protect the Olympic committee themselves from legal backlash. but who cares about the Olympic committees' personal safety anyways? They deserve whatever reckoning they have coming to them from any standpoint. Concern for morality and for people and athletes competing isn't even on their list of concerns. The place and time they're holding these Olympics is proof enough of that.
The situation here is not about the drug effect, or true or false on whether she use that drug. She may not use that drug, and may be mistakes happen to her test result. But regardless of the reason is, for now she had positive result and shouldnt be competing. Jessica Calalang suffered something she didnt do, in the same situation, and as an adult athlete she couldnt compete, although she was declared clean afterwards. But she suffered that condition for 8 months. And that must be applied to Kamila. Regardless of how clean you are, rule is rule. You can have your name be cleared afterwards, but the competition, you cant skate there.
This decision was fair and humane. Anyway, If she is found guilty of doping she would be stripped of all her medals since December. But it would help her to keep her career as a skater, I hope. And after a thorough investigation, we would know the truth about her case. But the whole guilt should not be placed on her, she is 15, man, let the girl be. Her future hinges on this Olympics. If there is a mistake she should be able to compete, but how would we know right now? If there was doping, take the medals away. It is that easy. WADA is to blame for the late test and inability to protect her from mass media abuse. IT IS EXTREMELY COMPLICATED! THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY DOPING IN THE OLYMPICS! But, do not throw the girl away.
The late test was caused by Covid peak that delayed testing of samples in Sweden lab. RUSADA took the sample but since they lost credentials to test in their own lab, they sent the sample to other accredited lab. They didn't tag the samples as urgent so they might get lost in queue with other samples plus the short-staffed lab caused the delay. The media abuse is inevitable but if you meant by that hooded-cover walk, that should have been avoided if her coaches was always with her.
@@yohanes2034 so now she must compete, and we all have to wait the resolution of this investigation due to covid, due to lab, yeah yeah. The whole Olympics experience is now postponed and ruined.
Love the upbeat intro transitioning to this hot mess of a drama as a reminder that figure skating is suppose to be fun and exiting. Honestly all that is happening is too real, the violence Eteri's athletes go though is too much, some people are even talking about possible se#ual abuse... it's too much!
I can’t help but wonder how Kamila’s teammates feel about the CAS decision. If they manage a ROC podium sweep, then Kamila’s getting caught will have deprived her teammates of their moments of Olympic glory too. They can’t be too happy about that.
Plot twist: The Russians thought all of this through. like in euphoria, the drug dealer gave Rue 10k in drug to sell at school because the law of minor selling drug to minors was a slap on the wrist compared to an adult doing it.
I stopped watching after Sochi. Yuna Kim and others were robbed in my .02 To learn here recently that big doping Kremlin style happened back then. Like I missed Polina Edmunds who is very talented and ARTISTIC . Yes she was at Sochi but my focus was Yuna and Kostner. Both so much more artistic with better technique than what won.
Eric, may you answer a simple question, please: Would the skating community be able to forgive Kamila? Would she be accepted later in any competitions? (Despite the after Olympics final decision.)
It might depend on more information that comes out, and I’m sure the community will be divided (e.g. most Russians seem to not mind). Outside of Russia, I think people mostly want to see the adults around her + country accountable in order to forgive. However - most likely there needs to be a ban (maybe 2 years? I don’t know all the rules) for both Kamila and maybe Russia. If held accountable, I’m sure many of would be happy to see Kamila compete again. And again I don’t think most people are actually blaming her, so in that sense there is nothing to “forgive”.
@@EricStinehart thanks for the explanation, isu must raise minimal age to 17, and specific coaching techniques should be banned, as far as I understand. No one should abuse or bully teenage athletes. I hope there will be 30 years healthy skaters on the Olympics in the future
And i think, if Kamila wasnt allowed to compete in Beijing and afterwards she revealed to be clean, i dont think athletes and olympians will take back their statements about her. They are not pointing their fingers to Kamila. They do take pity on her and her career. They made those statements based on the situation that is happening now, what kind of decision would be taken if this problem occurs to other athletes: Other athletes wouldnt be allowed to compete when the problem happen to them. For that situation, and for Kamila, its only be true to not let her compete and send her home.
Well, anyway she still has a right to defend herself in a court of sports law. She can compete but can't take medals until proven innocent. Well, her current moral condition is a disaster. If she wins in that condition that would be a miracle. Poor Kamila.
I find your arguments interesting helping to understand the situation better. However in this case: 1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates. 2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules. Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later. It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through. IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics. That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
You do realize that finding traces means there was more of the drug in her body originally? Drugs have a half-life, meaning that less of the drug will be in the blood the longer you wait. Also, 'performance enchancing' is not the only argument for banning certain drugs. Some are banned because they are dangerous for one's health, which is the case with Valieva's heart medication. It should never be prescribed to adolescents, period. And what you call an 'accident' still needs to be proven as such. The only valid point in your comment is that most likely her teammates are also drugged up. Which contradicts your own argument that this was an accident. Were they all doped by accident then?
@@russki1978 I wrote the comment a "long time ago", although it's only been 6 weeks maybe )) I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance. Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none. To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned. It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is. I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.
Unfair for the other athletes. It gives a bad precedence; below 16 years old can take the drug to have more endurance & improve flow of blood...
This is not just about protecting a minor from legal actions but this is more about fair competition. Where is fairness to this? Principal: Athletes who dopes cannot compete in any games. All players efforts and dreams are equally precious.
@JET MECH wat about thc
@JET MECH word
1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates.
2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules.
Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later.
It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through.
IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics.
That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
I wrote my comment a "long time ago", although it's only been 6 weeks maybe ))
I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance.
Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none.
To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned.
It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is.
I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.
Athletes like Rika Kihira and Brady Tennel ended up with severe injuries trying to compete with the Sambo 70 girls doing these quads (which we all suspect is a result of doping now). And because of these injuries, they can't compete in the Olympics. What aboiut the irreparable harm done to them? The ISU/IOC are a joke.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
This decision means you can get away with anything if you are under age. Who is protecting the sport and more importantly the other athletes? This organization should protect athletes who follow the rules.
The latest defense is that she accidentally drank from her grandfather's glass of water, who allegedly takes TMZ for his heart condition, and that contaminated her test result which was taken prior to her National's competition on Christmas. Ignoring the fact that the Russian Nationals took place in St. Petersburg and her grandfather is reported to live in Kazan - some 750 miles apart from each other - the mental gymnastics needed to believe that story would give everyone the twisties.
I'm at the point right now where I'm not going to Google it. It sounds utterly farcical, so that's in character.
I'm going to quietly have an aneurysm now. This is just the *end*.
This is so sick and unfair to all skaters!!! I'm not going to watch her routine at the women's skating program. I'm going to turn off the tv. I REFUSE TO WATCH A DOPING SKATER!!!!!!
It's not her fault
This is the death of any hope for clean olympics. The message is clear: as long as minors are included, they can be doped and allowed to compete. So any of those estate funded doping programs and abusive coaches, you are good to go.
I see so many comments of fans saying "yay good for Kamila" and I feel they are not understanding the seriousness of the situation (except russians because for them Kamila is a propaganda of their country's greatness). This makes me so sad because they don't worry about Kamila's wellbeing, only that she gets a medal. She is young and could have a shot at 19 in the next olympics (well assuming she endures 4 more years). But we all know how this ends: she will win and then go into obscurity like the previous champs before her. Rinse and Repeat.
I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance.
Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none.
To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned.
It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is.
I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.
There is something machine-like in the consistency of the Eteri girls pre puberty that it definitely appears plausible that the Sambo 70 system includes doping.
Doping is cheating and cheating should not be allowed at any athletic competition, period.
They need to changed the age limit to be affair to other skaters.
what about the irreperable harm done to all the other competitors?
If kamilla is allowed to compete after there were drugs found in her body then i dont know what world we live in anymore… it is a fact that drugs were found and that is so dissapointing, she was a good skater, but if they let her compete then its a spit in the face to her clean competitors..
why would anyone want to compete against someone who uses doping?
She could still skate in the next olympics it she is clean.. i dont see the issue if she were to be disqualified and her result nullified. I dont understand why underage atheletes are not punished for taking drugs.. its illegal and they should be facing justice.. if i was underage and found guilty of cosumption of drugs i would go to prison guaranteed this rule is so weird..
she was no more doped than her fellow Russians. All other athletes are also doped according to their country's practice. Using legal substances. A trace substance is NOT something to give cause for performance enhancement and could be due to a drug manufacturing error.
Imagine, guys, if Nathan had had a positive test before the OG, he would have been expelled to the universe. The decision was definitely not fair to the other athletes and the soul of the Olympic Games in general.
So why was Russia in all the Olympics in the first place when they cheated in 2014?? Again she doped in December, nothing was seen before and after December, after the gold medal December's result showed up, the court members are all from anti-russian countries but they still said she can compete... so why are we even ranting when nothing will happen?
Well figure skating unfortunately became the first and ONLY sport to knowingly allow an athlete to compete amid positive doping tests.
I'm sorry but I hardly disagree with this decision. IMO this is not a win for Kamila but rather a win for Eteri as this basically validates that it's okay for doping a minor. They're sending this dangerous message instead of cracking down on the institution and pressing pause on this. Any other athletes who get positive test will be suspended right away while waiting for further investigation (like testing the B sample, etc.). Doping allegation is serious and during the Olympic nonetheless with the "Olympic movement" and "clean sport" this decision is setting up bad precedence for future cases. Now with all this drama, Kamila's mental state is probably at breaking point now (what 15 y.o trained for this situation) and she has to compete with this state of mind and if she places on the podium, no medal ceremony will be given. Imagine what other athletes have to feel right now knowing that you have to compete against athlete that (allegedly) has taken PED and if she wins she will rob your Olympic experience as well by not having the medal ceremony.
There are so many wrong things here just to accommodate ROC (again). If after this the age limit is not raised because of this BS "protected minor" misalignment definition between ISU and WADA rules then I don't know what will. Minors should not compete against adults in the first place.
My heart breaks for the Kamila. I wish her the best bc there is gonna be a HUGE backlash for her future skating endeavors. But I do believe the correct answer should have been to ban her from the Olympics. That being said, since they had gone ahead and allowed her to compete for the individual competition, as a compromise, she can skate in the event, but have her results be nullified; I could find that fair enough. I am glad they will be adding an additional person for the FS. Unfortunately, this is going to send the wrong message to the world about doping. Maybe they will make an Eteri Rule or a Valieva Rule after this Olympics....who knows? But we should be compassionate for Kamila, nevertheless. Not an easy situation to be in.
1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates.
2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules.
Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later.
It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through.
IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics.
That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
@@Dan-uf2vh Trace is not consistent with someone who was accidentally sharing a glass with grandpa. A trace means it was 200x higher than that and indicates it was consistent with someone who was doping at the tail end of leaving their system. She is 100 percent guilty. The minor protected status is supposed to be for privacy and not to criminalize them but Russian media outed her. Protected doesn't mean you get to cheat and still participate.
@@rajs7876 The guilty party is really the entourage and you can bet drugging went undetected for the rest. Also, that substance certainly had next to zero effect compared to everything else (cocktails of drugs that aren't banned, including those that delay maturity, massive dieting and overtraining). WADA, the IOC, the ROC and Tuberitze's team of doctors all need to be sanctioned for their lack of proper drug classification, proper drug testing, and the abuse going on. In the existing conditions, all the shunning and null ceremony constitute the actions of a bunch of bullies, inept and taking it out on an innocent person. Performance enhancement strictly referring to that banned substance was total nonsense, based purely on politics and mass hysteria. They didn't even bother to determine if she was drugged all year round using hair sampling and more testing that should have gone on year long, thereby preventing the doctors from considering it as a risk acceptable measure.
Not watching the event!! They need changed the age from now on.
She should be out. I don’t care her age. She was doping either knowingly or unknowingly. This doesn’t change that she cheated to try to gain a competitive advantage. It is not fair to the other skaters who did not cheat.
To those who say let her compete and later she may get her medals stripped - this also is not fair to the other skaters especially the ones who medal. If she wins, she will stand on top of the podium and get her gold medal and all the accolades that come with that. And the skater who finishes in fourth will get nothing. Stripping the medals months later will not fix that situation as no one will remember who later was moved up to medal positions as a result. They will only remember that the cheater was stripped. Not fair.
This is a bad decision and a bad precedent to set.
They allow flutz and floop infront of the audience eyes. So what's so different about allowing drug use.
You are doing well, Eric. Keep it up! 👍
I wasn't shocked, I expected her to be allowed to skate, there's a loop hole, she's under age, so the rules don't apply to her and the ROC knows that. so they used it to their advantage.
Absolutely a wrong ruling. Valieva should not be allowed to compete. It’s absolutely a slap in the face to other competitors, but most of my anger is directed to the entire Tutberidze method of and “school of training.” She is hailed by the Russian government for her contribution to the advancement of their entire sports teams…etc etc. She continues to work these girls so hard that their bodies break down, even to the extent that their injuries may result in permanent, life-long health problems and physical disability. Her “expiration date” on her skaters is reprehensible. Basically once a skater is no longer prepubescent and not “producing,” she brings in her next “stable” of 13-14 year old skaters groomed to win Jr. and Senior national competition until they are old enough to compete at the Senior level in international competition. She knowingly and purposely dopes them, among other outrageous training techniques. But I digress. I put this doping incident firmly on her shoulders. That is NOT to say that Valieva has no responsibility here. She should not be allowed to compete. But until the ruling bodies place sanctions against specific schools/team coaches (in all Russian sports), doping will continue, especially in questionable coaching techniques, including the Tutberidze coaching techniques, which use doping as a training aid need to bear at least SOME of the responsibility and actual sanctions.
Last Olympics we had to make the Zigitova rule so they no longer can do all their jumps in the 2nd half for bonuses so the best skater in the world can actually win the gold vs a jumping robot.😉 Now they’ll have to come up with the Velieva rule, if you’re 15 or younger you can’t take the “special vitamin” that we usually put in the handful of pills we give you to keep you healthy. 😏
I’m just can’t stop thinking about the 3 ROC girls who are Thursty because Eteri forbids them from swallowing. They are only allowed to rinse & spit. So cruel!!!!! 😢
It’s not just cruel to keep Medvedeva, etc. from drinking water, it doesn’t even make sense from a medical standpoint! Physical performance is worse when you’re dehydrated.
In the end I feel terrible for Kamila, she’s a young girl with trainers treating her like a show pony. Now all the added pressure; it’s not her fault. You can tell she’s been working so hard doping or not, don’t take it out on this young girl.
I’m definitely not watching skating anymore. This is the straw the broke tha camel’s back. FS has officially ceased being a sport. It’s simply a psyop.
Agree completely about the GOE, PCS corruption. Even disregarding Russians. For instance, look at the grossly inflated GOE and PCS Kaori(Fed fav) gets, in Japan especially, vs what Higuchi (Fed hates) gets. They are comparable technically and Higuchi is far superior artistically and presentation wise,but the scores are reversed for them. Joke sport.
Shame on the verdict! It's disgusting 🤢. I will never watch her skiing again and any of Eteri team. DISGUSTING. NO MORE OLYMPICS for me.
The decision was fair. CAS did not rule on Kamila’s guilt or innocence. They merely decided that it would be unfair to lift her ban especially when the notice was so late that she would not have had the opportunity to mount the proper defense. If found guilty later on, she would be stripped of her medal. But if she was found innocent and was still suspended, she was robbed of a chance to compete.
Please note that procedurally, her automatic suspension was already lifted by Rusada, so the onus on the appeal is on WADA, not Kamila. But why Rusada is the one deciding to lift her suspension seems shady to say the least. But for all intents and purposes, rules were being followed. I agree with the decision.
Just watching the documentary of how Eteri Tuberitze push her trainees to the point that they get anorexia, serious injuries, she even make someone trained while injured… I’m not surprised she will do whatever to secure a win. They just need to raise the age eligibility to 18 to be able compete at a senior level.
This is appalling. As another former skater, I always looked forward to the Olympics; it's a highlight.
And now this is utterly farcical, appalling and enraging. I've been going on about this since the first peep, so I'll save my breath, but under *any* name, give Team Russia/OAR/ROC their ban and ENFORCE IT.
I don't understand this decision. And I won't be watching the ladies figure skating events from now on.
Watch your team, even though it's shocking, The funniest thing is that whether we like it or not, Russia is still going to be at the Olympics for generations..Why in the first place are they not outrightly banned? What is ROC when even a high schooler vast in current news knows that they are Russians? Shaming? Well who gets to be shamed now? Definitely not the Russians because they will celebrate at home and we will continue to rant abroad... we all ranted giving it to China and here we are watching our teams doing the global sports... rant all you want, that's the way the world goes, might is right!!!
you don't have to watch for competitive reason's why do people care about the competitve element of figure skating anyways, when it is so subjective and artistic? i've never understood that... watch it cause kaori sakamoto is a goddess in the flesh and deserves acknowledgement, ya know? the viewer perception of the sport can make a huge positive impact and change on the sport as well, possibly. its worth a try.
@@tvtda1 As for me, I rarely watch galas and I like competing, so I prefer to watch competitions - figure skating is a sport after all. And why am I not going to continue watching now? It was already difficult for me to accept the judges' not entirely fair scoring, and if I have to think how eg. our briliant Kaori is supposed to feel when competing with doped-up kid, I don't have the nerve for it. Figure skating was (and still is when it comes to the men's category) my happy place, and as a very stress-prone person, I just don't want to spoil my health. I know not everyone will understand this, but mental hygiene is important to me, so I avoid toxic stuff. If someone feels like it - let them watch. I am simply outgrown with it :(
Eteri’s pre-pubescent wards believe they are being rewarded with Smarties and Jelly Tots when they perform well! 🧑🏻🍼🤷🥇
Like the grinch that stole Christmas thinking it was all about the presents, cheaters think the Olympics is all about the medals and it’s not. It’s about the athletes’ love of it and that will always live on. Go Mariah and Karen and TeamUSA!
The irreparable harm was to the other athletes.
C'mon, guys, smash the subscribe button! Eric's videos are simply stunning.
🥺😍🤩
i feel bad but like there's difficulty in protecting young people in a sport that continues to grow younger and younger. This is seperate from the conversation about the age limit for competing at the highest level for health purposes, thats gonna need to have some science and analytical data backing its case when its presented. Theres a case for limiting age to just protect the Olympic committee themselves from legal backlash. but who cares about the Olympic committees' personal safety anyways? They deserve whatever reckoning they have coming to them from any standpoint. Concern for morality and for people and athletes competing isn't even on their list of concerns. The place and time they're holding these Olympics is proof enough of that.
The situation here is not about the drug effect, or true or false on whether she use that drug.
She may not use that drug, and may be mistakes happen to her test result. But regardless of the reason is, for now she had positive result and shouldnt be competing. Jessica Calalang suffered something she didnt do, in the same situation, and as an adult athlete she couldnt compete, although she was declared clean afterwards. But she suffered that condition for 8 months. And that must be applied to Kamila. Regardless of how clean you are, rule is rule. You can have your name be cleared afterwards, but the competition, you cant skate there.
This decision was fair and humane. Anyway, If she is found guilty of doping she would be stripped of all her medals since December. But it would help her to keep her career as a skater, I hope. And after a thorough investigation, we would know the truth about her case. But the whole guilt should not be placed on her, she is 15, man, let the girl be. Her future hinges on this Olympics. If there is a mistake she should be able to compete, but how would we know right now? If there was doping, take the medals away. It is that easy. WADA is to blame for the late test and inability to protect her from mass media abuse. IT IS EXTREMELY COMPLICATED! THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY DOPING IN THE OLYMPICS! But, do not throw the girl away.
The late test was caused by Covid peak that delayed testing of samples in Sweden lab. RUSADA took the sample but since they lost credentials to test in their own lab, they sent the sample to other accredited lab. They didn't tag the samples as urgent so they might get lost in queue with other samples plus the short-staffed lab caused the delay. The media abuse is inevitable but if you meant by that hooded-cover walk, that should have been avoided if her coaches was always with her.
@@yohanes2034 it seems lab in Sweden lost its accredibility
@@yohanes2034 I see just the Swedish lab faults here, Rusada did their part.
@@aleksandr-belousov_1 in the world of covid anything can happen and I believe it falls under force majeure, under no one's control.
@@yohanes2034 so now she must compete, and we all have to wait the resolution of this investigation due to covid, due to lab, yeah yeah. The whole Olympics experience is now postponed and ruined.
Love the upbeat intro transitioning to this hot mess of a drama as a reminder that figure skating is suppose to be fun and exiting.
Honestly all that is happening is too real, the violence Eteri's athletes go though is too much, some people are even talking about possible se#ual abuse... it's too much!
14:02 she is not going to win, this destroyed her concentration. Anna is probably going to win this.
Yeah right. She has not landed one single quad flip in days and both her neck and legs are taped. Are those any signs of exhaustion and abuse ?
I can’t help but wonder how Kamila’s teammates feel about the CAS decision. If they manage a ROC podium sweep, then Kamila’s getting caught will have deprived her teammates of their moments of Olympic glory too. They can’t be too happy about that.
Plot twist: The Russians thought all of this through. like in euphoria, the drug dealer gave Rue 10k in drug to sell at school because the law of minor selling drug to minors was a slap on the wrist compared to an adult doing it.
I stopped watching after Sochi. Yuna Kim and others were robbed in my .02 To learn here recently that big doping Kremlin style happened back then. Like I missed Polina Edmunds who is very talented and ARTISTIC . Yes she was at Sochi but my focus was Yuna and Kostner. Both so much more artistic with better technique than what won.
Thank you Eric. It just horrible.
If she won first place I hope the second place athlete to protest in some way
16:01 in the US (350 millions)? because this is just one country and the whole rest of the world (7 billions) are still watching it.
How lovely to be Russian 😏 . Springtime for Putin and ROC.🎵 Wintertime for Ukraine and clean athletes.🎵
Eric, may you answer a simple question, please:
Would the skating community be able to forgive Kamila?
Would she be accepted later in any competitions?
(Despite the after Olympics final decision.)
It might depend on more information that comes out, and I’m sure the community will be divided (e.g. most Russians seem to not mind). Outside of Russia, I think people mostly want to see the adults around her + country accountable in order to forgive. However - most likely there needs to be a ban (maybe 2 years? I don’t know all the rules) for both Kamila and maybe Russia. If held accountable, I’m sure many of would be happy to see Kamila compete again. And again I don’t think most people are actually blaming her, so in that sense there is nothing to “forgive”.
@@EricStinehart thanks for the explanation, isu must raise minimal age to 17, and specific coaching techniques should be banned, as far as I understand. No one should abuse or bully teenage athletes. I hope there will be 30 years healthy skaters on the Olympics in the future
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
And i think, if Kamila wasnt allowed to compete in Beijing and afterwards she revealed to be clean, i dont think athletes and olympians will take back their statements about her. They are not pointing their fingers to Kamila. They do take pity on her and her career. They made those statements based on the situation that is happening now, what kind of decision would be taken if this problem occurs to other athletes: Other athletes wouldnt be allowed to compete when the problem happen to them. For that situation, and for Kamila, its only be true to not let her compete and send her home.
Well, anyway she still has a right to defend herself in a court of sports law. She can compete but can't take medals until proven innocent. Well, her current moral condition is a disaster. If she wins in that condition that would be a miracle. Poor Kamila.
I find your arguments interesting helping to understand the situation better. However in this case:
1. The trace found had nothing to do with performance in the competition and was an accident PLUS it wasn't up to her what she takes. She is as much doped on legal drugs as her team mates.
2. As was stated, WADA messed up and their argument shouldn't have even been considered since they broke their own rules.
Under 1 and 2, she should have been cleared to compete without any ban on the ceremony and the rest could be sorted out later.
It's not like suddenly this opens a floodgate for far more evident performance enhancements to go through.
IOC completely failed to consider the case carefully and instead thrashed the efforts of the athlete which goes against basic human principles like origin of guilt as well as the performance involved. Essentially IOC played dumb politics and drew a dumb like AKA "doping -> ban" without even considering this was a trace substance and all the rest of the equation. Or they just played into anti-Russian politics.
That being said, for the future ALL synergizing cocktails should get properly evaluated and banned, not that it would be easy to sort out. The age should be raised to 18 so as to stop the rearing of disposable children. None of this has to do with the fact that they threw out the window the efforts of Kamila who played by the rules of her entourage and got to where she was with a LOT of hard work, to which IOC proved itself unable to handle gracefully and just thrashed by denying the ceremony. These guys don't do the work and are unworthy to preside over athletes that do.
You do realize that finding traces means there was more of the drug in her body originally? Drugs have a half-life, meaning that less of the drug will be in the blood the longer you wait. Also, 'performance enchancing' is not the only argument for banning certain drugs. Some are banned because they are dangerous for one's health, which is the case with Valieva's heart medication. It should never be prescribed to adolescents, period. And what you call an 'accident' still needs to be proven as such. The only valid point in your comment is that most likely her teammates are also drugged up. Which contradicts your own argument that this was an accident. Were they all doped by accident then?
@@russki1978 I wrote the comment a "long time ago", although it's only been 6 weeks maybe ))
I think that the most accurate supposition would be that for no real benefit, the doctor and coach decided it wouldn't get detected and even though the core of abusive performance enhancement was already in place on stuff that actually isn't banned, to also include that substance.
Is there any reason to think that Kamilla knew what she was being given, especially since 2 of 3 pills were not banned? No. Did it have any significant benefit on top of everything else? Pretty much none.
To be clear, the core of the abuse consists of having these girls delay from maturing into women and overworking them so they peak at 16-17 before their bodies break down. And WADA with its Russian affiliate fails to regulate it, including a whole range of supposed medications that aren't properly researched and should get banned.
It goes to show how completely insane and corrupt WADA and its affiliates are, and how ruthless the Russian machine is.
I simply believe that in a sane world and under established circumstances, Kamilla should have been cleared to participate with no disturbance to ceremony and not even a whisper of shunning. Pretty much everyone else misbehaved: from the institutions to the populist outraged goons in the public.