@109968shadowboy was never about the money this is a small fraction of what I own I've been playing for 30 years I don't mind ppl using proxies against or in tournaments just this game needs to have some value in it.
@@Capie1 gotcha. I felt like with you leading on the financial loss that was the reasoning for your stance on the matter. I can see pros and cons but I can’t help but feel like this will overall be a net negative because right now WoTC’s history handling the card game it is quite clear what they want and how they want it to be. In 2017 there was a huge scene for paper games but now most of my LGS are ghost towns with any other format than commander. Burn out is high with new players, old players don’t have anything good to say about the direction, and the competitive players are in that same boat. Confidence in WoTC I feel like is at an all time low and has been declining for the past 8 years.
nadu and the lotus. Oh, also they put crypt and the lotus on premium products for a ridiculus price. There was also magic 30 anniversary, the pinkertons, ruining of 60 card formats, the list goes on and on…
Can't wait to see reprints and more 😍 tired of these huggers for millions. Pokémon should fo the same. People acting like it's a business when it's for fun.
No it's going to get worst wotc wants to make money the rc was 3rd party this just put commander directly into the hands of those milking the game what better way to make more money then ban more cards.
Wizards doesn't want to ban cards. They want reprint equity, that's their biggest money angle. If you want to twiddle a conspiracy theory, then at least stick with the plot.
I dont want to play 60 card magic competitively. I want to play CEDH. It's the format I love the most. I played standard (or type 2 when I played) for 20 years. I don't enjoy it anymore. CEDH is more fun.
From this point on, if you find yourself disliking any of the no doubt numerous money making decisions Wizards RC are going to make, you know who to blame. It falls entirely on the people who harassed and sent death threats to the RC and CAG or whoever else. I hope they never reverse these decisions as that would mean letting awful people get away with their awful behavior. Surely, not even Wizards would be that stupid.
The RC should have pass the torch to other to take their place if they can’t handle the pressure of being harassed anything is better than giving control to wizards
Any chance WOTC pushed the RC out? Perhaps these bannings, where WOTC lost huge reprint equity, was the last straw and they initiated a coupe under the disguise of "helping". I think this just greatly increased the odds of these cards being unbanned in the future.
I don't understand your tirade against cedh. Cedh is a hugely growing community, and none of us are trying to tell you guys how to play commander. If you want to play a super casual meme deck where every card in your deck has a hat in its art or something and that makes you happy then go for it. I want to play super competitively and try to win as soon as possible while also stopping 3 other people from winning. Those aren't mutually exclusive things. I see people complaining about pub stompers all the time but if somebody really enjoys playing cedh then they wouldn't enjoy stomping a casual pod into the ground. The sheer amount of legal cards in this format means you will never ensure 4 strangers in a pod are on the exact same power level, but maybe this new system will make it a little better.
I agree, a lot of cEDH people seem pretty cool. They know exactly what they want out of the game and they want to play against other people who are the same, and isn't that what Commander is all about? As long as they leave their cEDH decks out of regular Commander there's absolutely no problem, in my opinion.
@@zachcrouch168 "I want to play super competitively and try to win as soon as possible". 1v1 formats are much faster and more competitive than commander, why are you wasting your time on a casual format?
@@Suhrvivor Because they enjoy the commander format? Why doesn't every modern player play legacy? Or legacy player play vintage? Diferent players like to play in different ways.
@@Suhrvivor You live in a world where people starve to death while others see how much food they can eat in a set amount of time. Humans will compete within any set of rules.
Im a cEDH player. I really don’t wanna see wizards try to make it a competitive format. cEDH isn’t even the best name for it because it’s still casual. It’s just a rule zero conversation that’s already happened.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl so all of my casual games with the highest power possible cEDH decks are for money and prize support and I just didn’t know it? 😂 No, what you’re referring to is called tEDH, (tournament is the t) and that is where the competition lies in the cEDH realm. Otherwise cEDH is just a predetermined rule zero.
As someone who use to play Modern and watched WotC destroy that format, I can say that Commander as you all know and love it, is now on its way out. Sorry guys, but you WILL buy new cards that are more and more powerful if you want to play now. In my opinion the old rules group should have banned a lot of cards that WotC had printed and targeted for Commander, but they didn't.
i dont play cedh but telling those players to go play modern or standard is the most gatekeepy thing ive ever heard. casual players dont have to act so entitled all the time.
Some of us want to play 60 cards magic but we cant play 60 card locally, everyone plays commander locally, therefore we play cedh. I went to FNM for standard and modern, only commander players were there.
My legacy decks just collecting dust, but there's no legacy scene here. Only commander players, so I can only play online. I am not a fan of commander either because sometimes I feel like I am walking on eggshells. Throwing a fit when someone counters their spell, or their land gets destroyed, keep attacking them because all they are doing for the first 3-4 turns is just ramping and no defense. That you shouldn't pick on them them as you should "spread it around" so they can ramp safely. (shrugs). Juts not a fan of the whole "play with what you like, except for the cards with don't like".
I'm confused why we need strict rules for a format that is usually just participation. You show up and play you get a pack. Win or lose. Why does anything need to be banned?! I'm apprehensive about WOTC taking things over.
This had just killed any interest in the game for me. I was already on a long break from this but this pretty much solidified my intent to leave the game. I valued Commander for being a community format but when the format gets taken over by a big corporation that already was in bed with the rules committee. It's basically a silent takeover and using threats from anonymous internet people to me is just an excuse to condemn the masses of faceless and nameless people in order to solidify their grasp on their biggest cash cow right now
Interesting takes. While i agree that edh is casual, to hope for any reason that humanity could take anything that has a winner or losers and not try to min-max it is foolish. No shade, i just dont see a world where cedh doesnt come into existance and is loved by a certain demagraphic of individuals
I’ve said this a lot today: WoTC can’t take control of a format if you don’t let them. 5 random people in the community can’t give commander to WoTC. Ignore their rules and they have no power
Well congratulations to all the trolls online and people that threatened the rc... careful what you wish for. I'm sure wotc wont use this opportunity to make more money and certainly will keep the health of the format first and foremost 😅 end of an era... i had already been looking at and building some pedh decks already
Are the threats in the room with us right now? Cause I've not seen any nor did they present any proof of any. All I've seen is people telling them to go fuck themselves which last I checked isn't a threat.
I don't like that they (WOTC) will have control over and insider knowledge of banning cards in their 'premier' format all the while having outlets like Secret Lair where they can dump specifics cards before them getting banned. I just see corporate greed (from Hasbro mostly) and this change hurting the format more than it already has been.
I think this is a good and much needed change. It was also the morally correct thing to do for WotC. 5 volunteers should never had been given that much power and therefore received that much scrutiny as well.
You are entitled to your opinion, however counterpoint, Yugioh is completely run as an eternal format by Konami, and its become an increasingly rough game to play because the company uses their banlist to solely sell more products. Letting unhealthy strategies stay to drives sells, and banning older stronger strategies to sell new ones. With how WotC was already starting to abuse their players with the chase reprints of Manacrypt. J Lotus. and Dockside, I know for a fact they are gonna be worse than Konami now that they have all the power.
@@D_Abellus but if they’re also managing it for financial reasons, they’re incentivized to keep players engaged. A short term cash grab will result in long term losses. Hopefully they’re smart enough to see that
If they reverse the bans do you know how many people that sold their cards or cancel their orders that would be mad, or people that RIP their cards up or set them on fire if they actually did
I predict more game warping cards are going to appear. WOTC needs to make the profit line go up and the way they get it by mainlining powercreep all formats until the average MTG player has a FENT BENT spine due to all the poison.
One of the best apologies i heard during this trying times is " legacy, modern and standard are all like Olympic box/judô, commander is professional wrestling (ppl are there for the show), cEDH is guys that think professional wrestling is for real."
Ok if commander is solely a casual format then why have a ban list period. Also what format can I enjoy high level play with 3-4 friends at a time? Part of the fun in cedh is that there's tons of decks that can compete so why should we be limited to the "competitive" formats where if your not using 1 of the top 5 decks your throwing
Would you like to take a flash hulk combo on turn 0? Would you like to spend 1/2 hour just talking about what game you want to have instead of just play? Would you like corporate rats ruining another format for profit?
Sure I don't have much against flash hulk. How many free counter spells are there now? It shouldn't take half an hour just to rule 0. Granted I dislike people who are manipulative when discussing it. I as a cedh player never have brought my cedh deck/cards to a casual table because the two are completely different. We already know wizards and the RC were discussing the ban a long time ago without word to the player base. They already pretty much control the format as is. Also you didn't answer a single one of my concerns
There is no need for a ban list in a casual format. Rule 0 is all you need. CEDH may actually need one. Commander leagues may need one. Casual play does not one in any way shape or form.
Disagree entirely. A banlist is required for any format. That is like the rules of any game. Rule zero is stupid, especially if I don't have a playgroup. If I follow the banlist perfectly, I should be allowed to play whatever I want.
Weren't there people in the rules committee getting death threats? I wouldn't blame them for tapping out. People have clearly gone way too far in emotional investment just because they can't turn zero dump their commander on the field. I honestly don't see wizards taking over as a good thing, as they have some clear financial incentives to ignore balance changes. But it's a done deal now.
Our playgroup that makes up ~50% of our shops playerbase & we all wanted wotc to take control. I am hyped for this news but over this last week, we have all been bit by the 60+ card kitchen table/ formatless bug. We will likely be returning once the recent banlist is rolled back (at least all non-nadu cards).
The economy and the pandemic boosted commander and killed most 60 card constructed formats in mid to small cities and town. There are numerous stores on wizards store locator that only have commander listed as firing. The price commander pays for becoming so popular is having to deal with the other format refugees that have nothing else to play.
So just going to throw this out there why do we care about there set rules anyways of we want just ingore them and play the way we want lol if a combo seems to powerful then just tone it down with the combos or try something else
"Allowed or not allowed to bring?" No one should be able to tell what you can or cannot bring. If Commander is supposed to be a "causal" format there shouldn't be a ban list. If you can't communicate that's a people problem not a card problem. You've got quite a bone to pick against cEDH huh?
If you hate cEDH soo much. You should have been telling the RC to be far more strict on bans years ago. Cards like Thassa's Oracle still exist in the format.
The " just play 60 card if you want competitive" is ridiculous btw. Ignore the "c". We want to play 100 card singleton in a wide open eternal format where we can do all the most OP sh*t... thats what gets most people into cedh
The biggest issue is the potential of 'insider trading'. The outrage stems from an emotional/sensitive base that wotc/rc coddled. Mtg celebrities and youtube channels never boycotted or held wotcs feet to fire. But the grift is too good.
3 of the 4 banned cards were Wizards fault. Now they have control of the format and card creation. This will be like Scar controlling the pridelands. Nothing changes now but the future looks bleak. The format is forever changed and will not be the same. I respectfully disagree with your enthusiasm on this news.
As long as they don't ban my Timetwister the only power 9 card allowed in EDH i don't really care what they do. Well maybe if they unban the other power 9 cards for bracket 4 it would be good as my Nekusar deck would like the blue Lightening bolt otherwise known as Ancestral Recall then immediately Timetwister that way they take a total of 10 damage in 1 turn
This is a great outcome. WotC has always controlled the Commander format. But now, they don't have a scapegoat to help them escape legal liability for their pump and dump schemes. And for those who believe that somehow the RC was holding the reins this entire time, you should remember that "Commander" as a format and trademark is 100% owned by WotC. The original format that the RC did have control over was called EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) but it could not be completely independent as their game was dependent on Magic. Wizards created their own duplicate format with their own branding and trademarks purely for the purpose of owning all the rights to it. They may have given authority to the RC to make banning decisions but it is naive to think that they ever relinquished control over the product.
People need to stop with the "I can sue Wizards because my collection is worthless" attitude. These aren't stocks, and when you buy magic cards you aren't entitled to any amount of value post purchase. This is why you should be buying to play the game, and stop trying to make money off it. WOTC is the only entity that is entitled to a profit because you are a CONSUMER. There is no such thing as a "pump and dump" scheme with MTG cards.
That, combined with commander being much easier to get started in, not just keep up with, and commander being easier to get less competitive people started. Like super smash bros vs street fighter. People can get their girlfriend to play super smash bros, street fighter is a harder sell.
Wizards designs for the format but have shown over the years that the health of the format in mind at all... the rc was not paid and had been working for its health since the mid to late 00's
Why are people pretending they can just take over a community created format? Who says they're in control of the format? If a person can just claim they control a format they didn't make I'm officially in charge of standard now and we're adding Urza's block to the format permanently with no bans except for basic mountains.
I don't like this at all. First and foremost it feels like it enables the worst elements of the blowback rather than putting them down hard. Second, Commander was better off being a Community format rather than a WOTC-owned one. Even if the RC got things wrong, it doesn't mean the format will be better off in WOTC's hands. Commander will end up with the same problems Modern has now. What made Commander great was that it sprang up naturally from the community. We needed people outside of Wizards who could make calls like this and say that cards like Nadu and Jeweled Lotus were bad for the format and shouldn't be played at most tables. It feels like freedom was traded for security here, but both will be lost in the end.
What a shame. It was nice thinking there a group of people out there trying to keep wizards in check from printing completely ridiculous cards. They were in trusted with a great responsibility. Too bad we found out this group was over flowing with suck pumps and D bags. Well it’s good that when wizards prints bad cards there is no one else to blame besides wizards employees.
I was on the verge of getting into mtg and got a starter deck but the day after all this happens and hearing the threats disgusted me and I'm think of avoid mtg now and going to one piece
No amount of throwing powerful cards into most commander decks will EVER produce viable cedh deck. So really there are 4 levels of Casual commander and Cedh.
This is the smartest thing for WotC. We the players get to decide what power level we play at AND WotC is telling players where cards are in power level. The brackets system is just what we needed. This creates a standard for power level. Now players can accurately tell what power level their decks actually are. The next thing to do is put in a point system like Canadian Highlander. You can have broken cards in your decks you just can't play with them all. That would be fine. OR since we have cards in the bracket 4 you could limit how many of those you can have in your deck.
I mean all the people that baby cried over the bans costing them money did this. Rule 0 doesnt work. Never has. Cedh should stand for casual edh. Its a swingy non skilled format that has crazy power level where you just buy power. Anything goes roll dice to see who wins.
@derrickpaulson3093 roll dice and see who gets higher numbers. It has more skill than cedh. And the snark from the rule 0 comment. Pure cringe. If rule 0 works, just use it to use all your wallet warrior cards. It's great how rule 0 is the answer when people want stuff banned, but when it gets banned and people tell you to rule 0, it's different... like it doesn't work or something.
If Wizards unbans any of the cards, they had BETTER reprint them a million times so they wind up being $1, $5, $10, because no "staple" should cost over $100
Make the brackets like this Bracket 4 -> CEDH ( no ban list or very limited ban list) Bracket 3 -> Standard Commander ( no fast mana (except sol ring) / 2 card combos / mass land destruction / anything that creates wincons before T6) Bracket 2 -> Casual ( no mythic no rares (this includes reprints that bump rarity up) + ban list from Bracket 3) Bracket 1 -> Tribal ( Bracket 3 bans + cards that hose tribal builds exclusively) The idea that "one" card makes your deck a higher bracket but lower without it is silly. Commander is all about synergy and a ban list serves to micro manage what access players have to "that synergy"
This shows that WOTC cares who spends the most money. Who is that? The enfranchised players. Not the filthy casuals who use draft chaff, make dumb meme decks, or buy only a couple of cards. The death threats really suck. However WOTC doesn't care. You mess with their bottom dollar, you getting fired. Rightly so with the RC. The RC don't deserve threats but they deserve to get fired. For every person that said "lol sucks to be you, lost all that money! " am going to enjoy all your tears.
Well, you still lost all that money, so you can believe WOTC cares about you if you want, but at the end of the day, if you're still investing in MTG, you're doing it wrong. The game was meant to be played, first and foremost.
"Play other formats" mast stores just do commander now. They can't get commander players playing anything else. It was alwayd really dumb to have some outsiders determining what WOTC could reprint and market in their product cause some randos say it was banned. Wonder if the first ban WOTC makes will be banning proxies.
F tier take. People play commander because they enjoy commander. Same as how people optimize their decks to power level 10, they continue to optimize until until the best possible decks in the format create their own distinct competitive meta. What "other competitive format" that is 100 card singleton where you have access to a specific legendary creature at all times do you play that isn't commander?
JFC. Threats are never acceptable discourse. I disagree with their rulings and thing Olivia was right, but this just enables the worst behavior. We should know that bullying is not acceptable discourse, but we don't know.
@@joelanderson5285exactly. And let’s be real who feels threatened by Commander players that’s like feeling threatened by a pink teddy bear with a dildo strapped to its head.
yea its really funny, the RC can just make decisions to jeopardize the livelihood of the LGSes and now the RC turns the table and cry victim. well played
@@joelanderson5285 Of course nobody has seen them. People made rude comments cause they lost money. I don't see how that's unacceptable. If there were actual threats they would have paraded them around to drive home their points.
I don't think your right in that people don't know it is wrong. I think people know it is wrong they just do it anyway. We still have people stealing in society and in one year had 2 people try to assassinate a candidate for president. Pretty sure they know these things are wrong but do it anyway for potential personal gain.
what a bad take on cEDH. How does people palying competitive EDH affects you? part of the reason why we are in this spot now is the ridiculous attitude towards cEDH.
He doesn’t play “competitive” magic. He plays patty cake / participation award magic. Can’t blame him. Once you understand the nature of “man” it’s difficult to believe in good😂 Bro needs more chocolate mint and less vanilla ice cream.
As a casual player, I don't understand why people are upset at CEDH players. You guys are always going to optimize and play the best decks with whatever card pool is available to you. Go look at the "Play to win" podcast. They are already looking at what decks are going to be good post ban.
I’ve been playing EDH since 2006 and I’ve always played competitively- sorry . Do you think playing bad cards means your pod is less competitive? No one is trying to win ? I don’t need cedh supported and I don’t need “casual” players taking the moral high ground everywhere
Lol why would anyone want WotC to control the format they have no hand in creating and have honestly been destroying the format. This was all done with a plan WotC had those cards banned so their was an outcry so they could take control of the format that currently pays their bills. I dont like the committee and I dont like WotC. No one has to listen to either of them and should play the game how they want to. People should also print their own proxies and enjoy the game free of the rip off it currently has become. The fact you all pay 50$+ for a single piece of cardboard is regarded amd it really shows how terrible of a consumer you are.
"Just play standard of you want a competetive card game" Ah yes... The format that doesnt have commanders. The formats where there everything is ran at 4. This is a bad argument. Some people wanna be competetive with the interesting aspects of commander. This is a boomer argument.
Join the discussion at the official HTTGC Discord: discord.gg/dbWvPbvE
A lot of talk about all of this. Crazy.
I have zero confidence in this format. WOTC has too many conflicts of interest to manage this properly.
As someone that just lost 5k in value of cards I'm ok with wotc in charge 30 years of playing rule 0 is getting out of control.
@@Capie1so glad you lost money lmao
@@109968shadowboy it's always the have nots that cheer. get a job you peasant
@109968shadowboy was never about the money this is a small fraction of what I own I've been playing for 30 years I don't mind ppl using proxies against or in tournaments just this game needs to have some value in it.
@@Capie1 gotcha. I felt like with you leading on the financial loss that was the reasoning for your stance on the matter. I can see pros and cons but I can’t help but feel like this will overall be a net negative because right now WoTC’s history handling the card game it is quite clear what they want and how they want it to be.
In 2017 there was a huge scene for paper games but now most of my LGS are ghost towns with any other format than commander. Burn out is high with new players, old players don’t have anything good to say about the direction, and the competitive players are in that same boat. Confidence in WoTC I feel like is at an all time low and has been declining for the past 8 years.
So the game design team that just gave us Nadu will control the format...
nadu and the lotus. Oh, also they put crypt and the lotus on premium products for a ridiculus price. There was also magic 30 anniversary, the pinkertons, ruining of 60 card formats, the list goes on and on…
Can't wait to see reprints and more 😍 tired of these huggers for millions. Pokémon should fo the same. People acting like it's a business when it's for fun.
Be careful for what you wish for, you just might get it
huh?
@@arxzo7122 It's going to be TERRIBLE.
Like WOTC wasn’t waiting in the shadows. These fools are clueless. WOTC was taking money from suckers since the Reserve List.
true
No it's going to get worst wotc wants to make money the rc was 3rd party this just put commander directly into the hands of those milking the game what better way to make more money then ban more cards.
Wizards doesn't want to ban cards. They want reprint equity, that's their biggest money angle. If you want to twiddle a conspiracy theory, then at least stick with the plot.
Players already hate WotC, so this is probably for the best. Refocus all that hate.
Sure, that will solve, why put this in the hands of 5 cowards when you can put around a corporation that fucked players up over and over again
I dont want to play 60 card magic competitively. I want to play CEDH. It's the format I love the most. I played standard (or type 2 when I played) for 20 years. I don't enjoy it anymore. CEDH is more fun.
Agreed. Don't apply competitive rules on the casual gamer.
From this point on, if you find yourself disliking any of the no doubt numerous money making decisions Wizards RC are going to make, you know who to blame. It falls entirely on the people who harassed and sent death threats to the RC and CAG or whoever else. I hope they never reverse these decisions as that would mean letting awful people get away with their awful behavior. Surely, not even Wizards would be that stupid.
I'm still waiting on the name and shame for those who sent the threats.
The RC should have pass the torch to other to take their place if they can’t handle the pressure of being harassed anything is better than giving control to wizards
Any chance WOTC pushed the RC out? Perhaps these bannings, where WOTC lost huge reprint equity, was the last straw and they initiated a coupe under the disguise of "helping". I think this just greatly increased the odds of these cards being unbanned in the future.
I don't understand your tirade against cedh. Cedh is a hugely growing community, and none of us are trying to tell you guys how to play commander. If you want to play a super casual meme deck where every card in your deck has a hat in its art or something and that makes you happy then go for it. I want to play super competitively and try to win as soon as possible while also stopping 3 other people from winning. Those aren't mutually exclusive things. I see people complaining about pub stompers all the time but if somebody really enjoys playing cedh then they wouldn't enjoy stomping a casual pod into the ground. The sheer amount of legal cards in this format means you will never ensure 4 strangers in a pod are on the exact same power level, but maybe this new system will make it a little better.
This
I agree, a lot of cEDH people seem pretty cool. They know exactly what they want out of the game and they want to play against other people who are the same, and isn't that what Commander is all about? As long as they leave their cEDH decks out of regular Commander there's absolutely no problem, in my opinion.
@@zachcrouch168 "I want to play super competitively and try to win as soon as possible". 1v1 formats are much faster and more competitive than commander, why are you wasting your time on a casual format?
@@Suhrvivor Because they enjoy the commander format? Why doesn't every modern player play legacy? Or legacy player play vintage? Diferent players like to play in different ways.
@@Suhrvivor You live in a world where people starve to death while others see how much food they can eat in a set amount of time. Humans will compete within any set of rules.
Also remember that cards “keeping value” is bad for most players. If you’re competing on wallet size everyone loses
Im a cEDH player. I really don’t wanna see wizards try to make it a competitive format. cEDH isn’t even the best name for it because it’s still casual. It’s just a rule zero conversation that’s already happened.
Tell that to the angry nerds that threat them because their cardboard pieces ar worthless
Cedh is certainly not casual. It's competitive because you are trying to win as fast as possible. Casual would mean you don't care about winning.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl so all of my casual games with the highest power possible cEDH decks are for money and prize support and I just didn’t know it? 😂
No, what you’re referring to is called tEDH, (tournament is the t) and that is where the competition lies in the cEDH realm. Otherwise cEDH is just a predetermined rule zero.
@@adoo765 tell them what exactly? Do you think I know these people? 😂
@@BrandoCalrizzien i was beeing sarcastic, "tell" the angry sissy nerds you surely dont know that you are right
As someone who use to play Modern and watched WotC destroy that format, I can say that Commander as you all know and love it, is now on its way out. Sorry guys, but you WILL buy new cards that are more and more powerful if you want to play now. In my opinion the old rules group should have banned a lot of cards that WotC had printed and targeted for Commander, but they didn't.
Commander was nice while it lasted
i dont play cedh but telling those players to go play modern or standard is the most gatekeepy thing ive ever heard. casual players dont have to act so entitled all the time.
Some of us want to play 60 cards magic but we cant play 60 card locally, everyone plays commander locally, therefore we play cedh. I went to FNM for standard and modern, only commander players were there.
I feel your pain
My legacy decks just collecting dust, but there's no legacy scene here. Only commander players, so I can only play online. I am not a fan of commander either because sometimes I feel like I am walking on eggshells. Throwing a fit when someone counters their spell, or their land gets destroyed, keep attacking them because all they are doing for the first 3-4 turns is just ramping and no defense. That you shouldn't pick on them them as you should "spread it around" so they can ramp safely. (shrugs).
Juts not a fan of the whole "play with what you like, except for the cards with don't like".
@@Narcomoeba1the last time I play legacy was 5 years ago 😢
Is "my deck's a 3" the new "my deck's a 7?"
I'm confused why we need strict rules for a format that is usually just participation. You show up and play you get a pack. Win or lose. Why does anything need to be banned?! I'm apprehensive about WOTC taking things over.
This had just killed any interest in the game for me. I was already on a long break from this but this pretty much solidified my intent to leave the game. I valued Commander for being a community format but when the format gets taken over by a big corporation that already was in bed with the rules committee. It's basically a silent takeover and using threats from anonymous internet people to me is just an excuse to condemn the masses of faceless and nameless people in order to solidify their grasp on their biggest cash cow right now
Interesting takes. While i agree that edh is casual, to hope for any reason that humanity could take anything that has a winner or losers and not try to min-max it is foolish. No shade, i just dont see a world where cedh doesnt come into existance and is loved by a certain demagraphic of individuals
I’ve said this a lot today: WoTC can’t take control of a format if you don’t let them. 5 random people in the community can’t give commander to WoTC. Ignore their rules and they have no power
Well congratulations to all the trolls online and people that threatened the rc... careful what you wish for. I'm sure wotc wont use this opportunity to make more money and certainly will keep the health of the format first and foremost 😅 end of an era... i had already been looking at and building some pedh decks already
Are the threats in the room with us right now? Cause I've not seen any nor did they present any proof of any. All I've seen is people telling them to go fuck themselves which last I checked isn't a threat.
I don't like that they (WOTC) will have control over and insider knowledge of banning cards in their 'premier' format all the while having outlets like Secret Lair where they can dump specifics cards before them getting banned. I just see corporate greed (from Hasbro mostly) and this change hurting the format more than it already has been.
I think this is a good and much needed change. It was also the morally correct thing to do for WotC. 5 volunteers should never had been given that much power and therefore received that much scrutiny as well.
You are entitled to your opinion, however counterpoint, Yugioh is completely run as an eternal format by Konami, and its become an increasingly rough game to play because the company uses their banlist to solely sell more products. Letting unhealthy strategies stay to drives sells, and banning older stronger strategies to sell new ones. With how WotC was already starting to abuse their players with the chase reprints of Manacrypt. J Lotus. and Dockside, I know for a fact they are gonna be worse than Konami now that they have all the power.
@@D_Abellus but if they’re also managing it for financial reasons, they’re incentivized to keep players engaged. A short term cash grab will result in long term losses. Hopefully they’re smart enough to see that
Why get mad at people for wanting to play a 4 person competitive format? It has a lot more variance than a 1v1 format idk weird take imo
If they reverse the bans do you know how many people that sold their cards or cancel their orders that would be mad, or people that RIP their cards up or set them on fire if they actually did
I predict more game warping cards are going to appear.
WOTC needs to make the profit line go up and the way they get it by mainlining powercreep all formats until the average MTG player has a FENT BENT spine due to all the poison.
One of the best apologies i heard during this trying times is " legacy, modern and standard are all like Olympic box/judô, commander is professional wrestling (ppl are there for the show), cEDH is guys that think professional wrestling is for real."
That is one of the worst analogies I've ever heard.
Ok if commander is solely a casual format then why have a ban list period. Also what format can I enjoy high level play with 3-4 friends at a time? Part of the fun in cedh is that there's tons of decks that can compete so why should we be limited to the "competitive" formats where if your not using 1 of the top 5 decks your throwing
Would you like to take a flash hulk combo on turn 0? Would you like to spend 1/2 hour just talking about what game you want to have instead of just play? Would you like corporate rats ruining another format for profit?
Sure I don't have much against flash hulk. How many free counter spells are there now? It shouldn't take half an hour just to rule 0. Granted I dislike people who are manipulative when discussing it. I as a cedh player never have brought my cedh deck/cards to a casual table because the two are completely different. We already know wizards and the RC were discussing the ban a long time ago without word to the player base. They already pretty much control the format as is. Also you didn't answer a single one of my concerns
@@adoo765also if it takes longer than a minute or 2 per person to rule 0 your doing it wrong
There is no need for a ban list in a casual format. Rule 0 is all you need. CEDH may actually need one. Commander leagues may need one. Casual play does not one in any way shape or form.
Banlists are for making the game better at any level, not just competitive.
Disagree entirely. A banlist is required for any format. That is like the rules of any game. Rule zero is stupid, especially if I don't have a playgroup. If I follow the banlist perfectly, I should be allowed to play whatever I want.
Weren't there people in the rules committee getting death threats? I wouldn't blame them for tapping out. People have clearly gone way too far in emotional investment just because they can't turn zero dump their commander on the field. I honestly don't see wizards taking over as a good thing, as they have some clear financial incentives to ignore balance changes. But it's a done deal now.
Comments already show one thing:
People are too dumb to read, but not too dumb to phantasize stuff into things.
Our playgroup that makes up ~50% of our shops playerbase & we all wanted wotc to take control. I am hyped for this news but over this last week, we have all been bit by the 60+ card kitchen table/ formatless bug. We will likely be returning once the recent banlist is rolled back (at least all non-nadu cards).
The economy and the pandemic boosted commander and killed most 60 card constructed formats in mid to small cities and town. There are numerous stores on wizards store locator that only have commander listed as firing. The price commander pays for becoming so popular is having to deal with the other format refugees that have nothing else to play.
So just going to throw this out there why do we care about there set rules anyways of we want just ingore them and play the way we want lol if a combo seems to powerful then just tone it down with the combos or try something else
Wotc first banning every thing on the reserve list as they make no money from it
WOTC should have been in charge of the rules as soon as it was an official format.
"Allowed or not allowed to bring?" No one should be able to tell what you can or cannot bring. If Commander is supposed to be a "causal" format there shouldn't be a ban list. If you can't communicate that's a people problem not a card problem. You've got quite a bone to pick against cEDH huh?
If you hate cEDH soo much. You should have been telling the RC to be far more strict on bans years ago. Cards like Thassa's Oracle still exist in the format.
Giving the Wolf full use of the hunter’s shotgun.😂what could go wrong?
The " just play 60 card if you want competitive" is ridiculous btw. Ignore the "c". We want to play 100 card singleton in a wide open eternal format where we can do all the most OP sh*t... thats what gets most people into cedh
Jeweled lotus and dockside and nadu should of never been printed
The biggest issue is the potential of 'insider trading'. The outrage stems from an emotional/sensitive base that wotc/rc coddled.
Mtg celebrities and youtube channels never boycotted or held wotcs feet to fire. But the grift is too good.
3 of the 4 banned cards were Wizards fault. Now they have control of the format and card creation. This will be like Scar controlling the pridelands. Nothing changes now but the future looks bleak. The format is forever changed and will not be the same. I respectfully disagree with your enthusiasm on this news.
I just started to get back into magic this month after not playing for 20 years. All this drama is a major turn off. Perhaps i should just avoid MTG.
As long as they don't ban my Timetwister the only power 9 card allowed in EDH i don't really care what they do. Well maybe if they unban the other power 9 cards for bracket 4 it would be good as my Nekusar deck would like the blue Lightening bolt otherwise known as Ancestral Recall then immediately Timetwister that way they take a total of 10 damage in 1 turn
This is a great outcome. WotC has always controlled the Commander format. But now, they don't have a scapegoat to help them escape legal liability for their pump and dump schemes.
And for those who believe that somehow the RC was holding the reins this entire time, you should remember that "Commander" as a format and trademark is 100% owned by WotC. The original format that the RC did have control over was called EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) but it could not be completely independent as their game was dependent on Magic. Wizards created their own duplicate format with their own branding and trademarks purely for the purpose of owning all the rights to it. They may have given authority to the RC to make banning decisions but it is naive to think that they ever relinquished control over the product.
The reason why we got eldrazi in MH3 was because of the original RC, now wizards can lock those cards on low rates and collector boosters
People need to stop with the "I can sue Wizards because my collection is worthless" attitude. These aren't stocks, and when you buy magic cards you aren't entitled to any amount of value post purchase. This is why you should be buying to play the game, and stop trying to make money off it. WOTC is the only entity that is entitled to a profit because you are a CONSUMER. There is no such thing as a "pump and dump" scheme with MTG cards.
Honestly 60 card competitive formats being more expensive to keep up with is what drove the majority of the player base to EDH to begin with.
That, combined with commander being much easier to get started in, not just keep up with, and commander being easier to get less competitive people started. Like super smash bros vs street fighter. People can get their girlfriend to play super smash bros, street fighter is a harder sell.
Does “casual” mean there is no banned list ? What does “casual” mean ? What does “fun” mean ?
Welcome to the awakening of The New Era my friends
Wizards designs for the format but have shown over the years that the health of the format in mind at all... the rc was not paid and had been working for its health since the mid to late 00's
I don’t want to play a 1v1 competitive format. I want to play competitive 1v1v1v1. The only format/sub format that allows me to do that is cEDH
Why are people pretending they can just take over a community created format? Who says they're in control of the format? If a person can just claim they control a format they didn't make I'm officially in charge of standard now and we're adding Urza's block to the format permanently with no bans except for basic mountains.
I don't like this at all. First and foremost it feels like it enables the worst elements of the blowback rather than putting them down hard. Second, Commander was better off being a Community format rather than a WOTC-owned one. Even if the RC got things wrong, it doesn't mean the format will be better off in WOTC's hands. Commander will end up with the same problems Modern has now. What made Commander great was that it sprang up naturally from the community. We needed people outside of Wizards who could make calls like this and say that cards like Nadu and Jeweled Lotus were bad for the format and shouldn't be played at most tables. It feels like freedom was traded for security here, but both will be lost in the end.
RC are cowards
Maybe commander will be treated with more care than standard. It is their flagship format after all.
I don't think there is a format right now they treat with care...not going to change now.
Well ofc they do, as if the RC could continue with death threats for s voluntary free work
What a shame. It was nice thinking there a group of people out there trying to keep wizards in check from printing completely ridiculous cards. They were in trusted with a great responsibility. Too bad we found out this group was over flowing with suck pumps and D bags. Well it’s good that when wizards prints bad cards there is no one else to blame besides wizards employees.
Banning everything from the reserved list in 3… 2… 1…
I wanta see these threats that make everyone feel unsafe.
It doesn't matter I'm going to play the game the way I want to play it anyway
I was on the verge of getting into mtg and got a starter deck but the day after all this happens and hearing the threats disgusted me and I'm think of avoid mtg now and going to one piece
No amount of throwing powerful cards into most commander decks will EVER produce viable cedh deck. So really there are 4 levels of Casual commander and Cedh.
Well congrats people , you got what you wanted. Let’s see how you all like it. We all know wotc wont do anything awful. Right ?
People need to move to Sorcery already
This is the smartest thing for WotC. We the players get to decide what power level we play at AND WotC is telling players where cards are in power level. The brackets system is just what we needed. This creates a standard for power level. Now players can accurately tell what power level their decks actually are.
The next thing to do is put in a point system like Canadian Highlander. You can have broken cards in your decks you just can't play with them all. That would be fine. OR since we have cards in the bracket 4 you could limit how many of those you can have in your deck.
Wotc controling it has no upsides
RIP to my favorite format
Pick up game? You mean a PUG. Get with it Grandpa 😂
I will not be bullied twice per week when I’m obviously correct!!! I’m standing my ground on Pick Up Games!
Learn the lingo, n00b!!!
😜
As a wow player, I giggle that it took me years to understand what a PUG was.
@@HometownTcg ❤️
Put all reserved list cards at a four
It's competitive jumpstart a thing? I'm down for that
I mean all the people that baby cried over the bans costing them money did this. Rule 0 doesnt work. Never has. Cedh should stand for casual edh. Its a swingy non skilled format that has crazy power level where you just buy power. Anything goes roll dice to see who wins.
Rule zero has always worked for me. I guess I know how to communicate with people.
And if you think cedh has no skill I’ve also got a bridge to sell you.
@derrickpaulson3093 roll dice and see who gets higher numbers. It has more skill than cedh. And the snark from the rule 0 comment. Pure cringe. If rule 0 works, just use it to use all your wallet warrior cards. It's great how rule 0 is the answer when people want stuff banned, but when it gets banned and people tell you to rule 0, it's different... like it doesn't work or something.
If Wizards unbans any of the cards, they had BETTER reprint them a million times so they wind up being $1, $5, $10, because no "staple" should cost over $100
You know they aren't going to do that. Mana Crypt will still be 100+. I'm selling my reserve list cards immediately.
Ya they won’t but they will unban
I sure hope they unban. But I also want a tier bracket and agree that midrange strategies should not have to pay for mana crypts.
I wish I hadn't burned all my mana crypts and jeweled lotuses
Lol
Make the brackets like this
Bracket 4 -> CEDH ( no ban list or very limited ban list)
Bracket 3 -> Standard Commander ( no fast mana (except sol ring) / 2 card combos / mass land destruction / anything that creates wincons before T6)
Bracket 2 -> Casual ( no mythic no rares (this includes reprints that bump rarity up) + ban list from Bracket 3)
Bracket 1 -> Tribal ( Bracket 3 bans + cards that hose tribal builds exclusively)
The idea that "one" card makes your deck a higher bracket but lower without it is silly. Commander is all about synergy and a ban list serves to micro manage what access players have to "that synergy"
This shows that WOTC cares who spends the most money. Who is that? The enfranchised players. Not the filthy casuals who use draft chaff, make dumb meme decks, or buy only a couple of cards. The death threats really suck. However WOTC doesn't care. You mess with their bottom dollar, you getting fired. Rightly so with the RC. The RC don't deserve threats but they deserve to get fired. For every person that said "lol sucks to be you, lost all that money! " am going to enjoy all your tears.
Well, you still lost all that money, so you can believe WOTC cares about you if you want, but at the end of the day, if you're still investing in MTG, you're doing it wrong. The game was meant to be played, first and foremost.
@@Arctanis-vt3hlwhere do you get your free cards, my guy? I should say ... OFFICIAL cards.
"Play other formats" mast stores just do commander now. They can't get commander players playing anything else.
It was alwayd really dumb to have some outsiders determining what WOTC could reprint and market in their product cause some randos say it was banned.
Wonder if the first ban WOTC makes will be banning proxies.
RC made a fatal error with overzealous bannings.
Let people use powerful mana if they want to.
THe bannings are necessary. If you want to play powerful mana, you'll have to rule zero it in. Most casual tables aren't going to want it.
Cedh is competitive even if you don't like the concept, cringe gatekeeping
If people can bully people's real world cash value of there collection, they can take virtual bullying online that hurts nothing but fefes
Bro, why did you say bucket instead of bracket? Lol
The same clown that Made nadu are in charge now... This Will make this format more of a shit show in the furure
F tier take. People play commander because they enjoy commander. Same as how people optimize their decks to power level 10, they continue to optimize until until the best possible decks in the format create their own distinct competitive meta.
What "other competitive format" that is 100 card singleton where you have access to a specific legendary creature at all times do you play that isn't commander?
Just rule 0 whatever daft things WotC introduces
Rule zero is stupid. THe banlist should determine what is played. Everything else is on the table.
Thumbs down for non cedh support
This is bad news 😢
JFC. Threats are never acceptable discourse. I disagree with their rulings and thing Olivia was right, but this just enables the worst behavior. We should know that bullying is not acceptable discourse, but we don't know.
Did anyone here make a threat? This is all quite sketchy and it is a modern media tactic to try to redirect in such situations.
@@joelanderson5285exactly. And let’s be real who feels threatened by Commander players that’s like feeling threatened by a pink teddy bear with a dildo strapped to its head.
yea its really funny, the RC can just make decisions to jeopardize the livelihood of the LGSes and now the RC turns the table and cry victim. well played
@@joelanderson5285 Of course nobody has seen them. People made rude comments cause they lost money. I don't see how that's unacceptable. If there were actual threats they would have paraded them around to drive home their points.
I don't think your right in that people don't know it is wrong. I think people know it is wrong they just do it anyway. We still have people stealing in society and in one year had 2 people try to assassinate a candidate for president. Pretty sure they know these things are wrong but do it anyway for potential personal gain.
Looking fresh ✂️💈
what a bad take on cEDH. How does people palying competitive EDH affects you? part of the reason why we are in this spot now is the ridiculous attitude towards cEDH.
No one cares about cEDH tho? I have never even seen any of the banned cards XD.
He doesn’t play “competitive” magic. He plays patty cake / participation award magic. Can’t blame him. Once you understand the nature of “man” it’s difficult to believe in good😂 Bro needs more chocolate mint and less vanilla ice cream.
As a casual player, I don't understand why people are upset at CEDH players. You guys are always going to optimize and play the best decks with whatever card pool is available to you. Go look at the "Play to win" podcast. They are already looking at what decks are going to be good post ban.
This not fallout from the bans, this is fallout from a small number of people who could not suck it up and act like an adult. Today we all lost.
And this small group of people will most likely not be well liked in their own local community for the damage done to the format in general.
Are you referring to those making death threats, or those who refuse to have a rule 0 conversation in person yet fill discord servers with complaints?
@@Dstinct Those who made the threats.
I’ve been playing EDH since 2006 and I’ve always played competitively- sorry . Do you think playing bad cards means your pod is less competitive? No one is trying to win ? I don’t need cedh supported and I don’t need “casual” players taking the moral high ground everywhere
Lol why would anyone want WotC to control the format they have no hand in creating and have honestly been destroying the format. This was all done with a plan WotC had those cards banned so their was an outcry so they could take control of the format that currently pays their bills. I dont like the committee and I dont like WotC. No one has to listen to either of them and should play the game how they want to. People should also print their own proxies and enjoy the game free of the rip off it currently has become. The fact you all pay 50$+ for a single piece of cardboard is regarded amd it really shows how terrible of a consumer you are.
I, for one, welcome our corporate overlords.
Omg 🔥
CEDH is a part of the format, get off your weird high horse
"Just play standard of you want a competetive card game"
Ah yes... The format that doesnt have commanders. The formats where there everything is ran at 4.
This is a bad argument. Some people wanna be competetive with the interesting aspects of commander.
This is a boomer argument.
Love it. People cried and now WOTC controls commander. Hope the crybabies are happy!
GOOD.
First! FOR JEWELED LOTUS SAVE US PAPA HASBRO
Yikes...
WoTC right now: "I love democracy..."