Audi TT RS vs BMW M2 vs Porsche 718 Cayman S: fast lap shootout
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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PART 3 OF 4: We've timed this trio to 130mph, but now it's time to see which is quickest against the clock around our home circuit, Anglesey. Over to DRIVETRIBE's Editor-at-Large Jethro Bovingdon…
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Jethro you are excellent at communicating how these cars feel, and thank you director and editor for letting the track videos breathe and suck you in without music or editing tricks. Classy, entertaining, informative!
The best Car Video Soundtrack is the engine itself!
One of the biggest advantages Car videos have over Magazines is the visceral sounds that each vehicle makes; at idle, at readline, off throttle at speed...
The Cayman sounds horrendous compared to the last gen
Sounds like a diesel lorry...
Dalton v I think it sounds amazing
Dalton v blame the government.
the new one sounds like a golf gti on steroids its awful
That's exactly what I thought. Truck. The Audi sounds awesome, but having had an S4 Avant about 10 years ago, I know exactly what Jethro is talking about when it comes to that darn understeer. Killer of joy.
I'm not an Audi fan in the slightest but there's something special about the TT, as a seriously fast road car. The engine is a masterpiece. The M2 however.. that is a lovely package for a daily/track day car. Great driving, love it :)
How is M2 a track car when the brakes stop working after a warm up lap?
sliwka621 I never said it was a 'track car'. I said 'track day car'. A friend of mine has an M2 and does 6/7 laps of the ring a day when he goes there. Just because the brakes didn't work well on that track, doesn't mean you can't take it on the track. It just needs some better pads and fluid maybe, and it might last longer.
Yeah basic changes are necessary in some cases to make great automobiles fit their intended purpose. The Miata is a great example. Out of the box it's pretty soft, but it's largely regarded as one of the best entry level sports cars out there due to the platforms ability to adapt to a track or spirited driving environment. If a few small things like brake pads are the issue, it's very easy to remedy and make a truly great car for your intended purpose.
@@sliwka621 Don't forget that the basic M2 comes with regular steel brakes that you can upgrade to the M sport version that i doubt he has on this one since he got the manual gearbox which is 0.2 second slower from 0-100 that the septronic gearbox (interresting btw knowing audi tt is ahead by 0.09 seconds on a lap). And i doubt the M sport brakes would stop working after a warm up lap ;)
@@sliwka621its not the competition spec with ceramic brakes
If you own a 718 Cayman like me it sounds far better in real life. It has a deep throaty sound and yes it's not as nice as the flat 6 but it's not as bad as you hear on video. Oh and it's properly quick, not just in a straight line like the Audi. And just look at it, stunning looking car!
Daniel Harris I agree I saw 718s on video before and I thought it sounded shit like others say then I had a test drive and from the insure it's very different, the engine sound is involving and sits so close to you then it's also improving at high revs
@@mrt.789 it is - it's a raw, snarly and mechanical noise - really nothing like the flat-6, of which I have owned 5 ranging from 2.7l to 3.8l, but I have grown to quite like the flat-4 sound.
It sounds like a diesel.
The Porsche looks soooo pretty! I think its easily the best looking car in this trio. I obviously miss the flat 6 but I would still take the Cayman over the M2 or the TT.
"It's pretty horrendous, actually" - that's a real insult to the TT RS
This is the best car channel currently available, great job drivetribe
RIP to the Cayman's sound
I agree, the sound alone is one of the reasons i needed a NA flat 6 in my garage
It’s not so bad.
Kiedy Obiad yeah but it’s gone from great to “not so bad” which makes it seem worse.
I have a 2.9Cayman and just last week drove the new 718 S far far far far far far better than mine.....and mine has only done 25k from new ! Suggest you drive the darn thing instead of listening to dumb ass journo's !
Sounds good to be a 4 cylinder
Excellent - love the immediate post lap summaries.
I've driven my 718 Cayman on Anglesey too (video on my channel) and I was faster than some Lotuses and Caterhams (and I am a hopeless driver). It's insanely quick.
The TTRS is the most well rounded. Fastest from a launch. Fastest on the straights. Not quite as practical as the M2 but significantly more than the Cayman. AWD for all weather. Great interior. But I still love the M2 more.
Great video. The TTRS would really shine in the wet of course but you gotta love the Cayman S. Porsche has and always will be a Sport car company. I think you've also gotta give the best sounding engine to the TTRS though.
This has been a nice set of videos, not too much all at once, but each one has been very good on it's own.
Nice job guys!
Thumbs up for being so direct and honest! Superb review!
Cayman with a PDK would be in a different league round a track
As someone who owns both an Audi and a BMW and worked for Audi I have to say you have to drive the Audi differently. If you drive the Audi like a standard RWD car and follow the racing line for a RWD car it will understeer. You have to drive it like a FWD car but you can get on the power way sooner than most other cars. I think with someone used to driving Audi's you could get the fastest time out of all those cars. Jethro is still a good driver tho, not denying that
Since you worked for Audi , why don't you put an Lsd on the front axle since it's 50:50 power split?
Am driving the TT RS these days for my publication. I found the front end on the road to have a better bite than usual for Audi. Maybe it's the Yoko Advan tires, and I also felt the back end reacting nicely at gas pedal release mid corner, something unusual for Audi. If I could disconnect all the stability mgmt completely, I guess you could play with it a lot more. The engine is a real treat and yes, it sounds so much better than the Porsche. After nearly 30 years of waiting for the needle to pass the 5,000 rpm of the boxer aspirated angine and enter a proper world, now all these fking turbo engines are so linear that they lost their character. even on the 991... I was so disappointed on how boring are these new turbo engines
I chose the TTRS over the M2 and 718/911. It’s far quicker in most road conditions.
Amazing video, more videos like this please! I thought the TT was going to be better, as it has more power-torque and 4wd, but the balance of the porche is unbeatable
It's always the case with Audi's cars. At least for their public cars.
If you want a sportcar, you just don't buy an Audi
ECCvideo78 then you buy R8...
TheEryk03 the R8 is actually the only choice from audi for a fun car but still, not as good as Porsche for sportcars
Even BMW is getting less sportier and more towards luxery for their line up except for the M2 and M6 maybe?
And that is actually weirder than audi making fast luxury cars
ECCvideo78 TT RS is also very fun, in a differing way. And the R8 is actually much better than any 911. Porsche have very boring engines.
TT Handling tuned for safe road ! So easy to have softer re-tune of front suspension and anti roll bar .. Then Wins all round. ?
biggest must have engineering fad on all 16/17 cars: THOSE ANNOYING ARTIFICIAL UPSHIFT FARTS.
Such a beautiful circuit !
I for one have never felt that a comparo between an AWD performance vehicle VS a Rwd one to have too much merit. It's apples and lettuce., but I get it ! it needs to be done and this film was awesome to watch. Thank you for doing it !!!
Audi has always had a rigid design&safety belief that Understeer will keep their customers safe from potential harm ,especially with with a car with that much power. One just needs to adjust their driving style and intuition to take advantage of Quattro and the Sport Diff rear. The TT-Rs is geared for the general enthusiast market, a demographic that at best will only drive the RS to 7/10th's of its capability if even that and for the most part mainly floor it when they're going straight on the Expressway. Folks that want a car that looks the business, goes like stink and more importantly stops and scrubs speed better than anything in its class.No one will ever complain about the brakes on an RS car. My RS4 never runs out of brakes, nor did my old RS6.
When it comes down to it, the Audi is a beast in any type of weather. I'll take that over a 1+ sec track lap advantage any day...because in the "real" world, that doesn't add up to a whole lot of beans. One also wonders what the times would be if Cup2's were standard instead of the Pirelli Corsa's that come on the TT as well as the new option of reverse stagger which is available on the US bound RS3.
Lastly, that 5 pot is one of the most violently delicious sounds coming out of a bonnet in a long time, especially compared to the lawnmower concerto of the Cayman's 4...yuck !
Loving this series so far, Drivetribe. We want more!!
brilliant feedback from the driver after each run. Like it. He was pushing pretty hard on those runs to.
Let’s be honest here: the guy was prepared to dislike the TT RS. The current trend command that good race drivers must praise manual trans and rear wheel drive. Everything else isn’t proper, just tolerated. So, the auto trans and awd weren’t welcome. The driver even say he lost time banging the rev limiter with the paddles because he doesn’t like to leave in auto. Well the way I see it is if you’re shooting for a fast lap you have to adapt to get everything the car can do! That said and being honest, the Cayman has the superior handling , the M2 is fun to drift and the TT RS could do better in the hands of a driver who commit to it. But I loved the video even if I don’t agree completely with the conclusion !
I'm a simple man. I see "Jethro" in the thumbnail, I click like.
this is a golden era of cars, every one of these cars are amazing and will be the same price as Toyotas in a couple years
Keep dreaming
Golden era? With the amount of electronics in cars these days, it seems almost boring.. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years these types of cars had on-board computers to race themselves on actual racetracks to give owners the "track day experience".
Yes but emission tax will make these babies cost way more in the future when everything is electric + fast electric cars will be the sport toys then
Horsepower has never been cheaper.
Roberto Arkenburg yeah not with trump, but trump will tax German cars so still trouble ;)
I’d just get a TT RS for daily and highway/stoplight dominance and a modified 2018 181hp Miata ND / Abarth 124 Spider for handling thrills on the weekends.
Great job Jethro! Cheers from a Canadian fan.
Loved the S1 quatro sound, glad they've brought that 5pot back.
Please do more 3 part comparisons!!!! These videos are fantastic and informative
I know manufacturers pick oem tires to meet many standards, but I wish for these comparison tests, all cars are equipped with identical tires to remove that variable
MonkeyMD so true. The Pirelli tires on the Audi are awful. Tires are everything.
Ryan B yep its all tires.
simply swapping the pzeros to mpss is worth 2sec a lap......
MonkeyMD then it would not be a stock test comparing them.
Completely fair test is more meaningful than "Well thats how it came.." Its a bad test if tires are garbage, actual owners will swap them out immediately anyway for nice tires. The other cars also needed to be autos.
Why did you test the TTRS with an open window?!
I would take the Audi TT RS. The Porsche is almost 2 seconds faster than the Audi around the track yes, but an average driver like me I would probably run similar times in both cars. But the Audi absolutely crushes the Porsche in a straight line, thats where I'm going to use most of the power day to day.
The Porsche with a PDK and Sport Chrono would not be crushed, only slightly slower in a straight line (3.6 sec in a Car and Driver test, only 1/10th off the result for the TT RS here). Once the curves arrive, it's game over for the Audi, even with an average driver like you. The Audi does sound better...
Dear Drivetribe,
Please relocate the mic for recording the engine sounds.
All onboards for hot laps you guys currently make sounds like it's distorted.
Much appreciated thanks.
.Great video - love that 'ringside commentary' from the driver straight off the bat...but if you're not a professional driver but are comparing a Mk2 TTRS, a 911 997 and a BMW (M4)?
M2 every time for me. If it was the 981 it would be a tough choice.
Agree with u Tony
the interior, though... reminds me of my dad's old early-2000s acura.
but fun to drive.
I agree, but for me with chronic pain, the m245i is better (340 PS and a torque over 500 Nm beginning at 1500 tours), because i have a comfort mode. And in sport mode the m2 is not faster. There is a software problem. If You give full power You must wait a short moment. But BMW will fix it. Sorry for my bad Englisch and many greetings from Germany.
For the entirety of these tests, if the TT RS doesn't come in manual (is it even an option I don't know?) then the BMW and the Porsche should have been equipped with M-DCT and PDK respectively...seems much more fair
This video was too good. You have my attention Jethro.
What you have here are three great cars. Look at what you need in terms of practicality, see which one you like the design of and bingo. You have made a good choice.
Price aside, this is almost an unfair comparison. The Porsche is a true mid engine sports car.
The other two are sport coupes...
Porsche wins as it should!
Porsche is rear engines not mid engined. But I do agree with you although I'm not sure what you mean by the Porsche is a sports car while the other two are sports coupes
Mario Master 02 incorrect. I have a Cayman...the 911 is rear engine, but the Cayman is Mid Engine. The engine sits in front of the rear axle
GTRS Oh my bad. I forgot that this car had a different engine placement from the 911.
We are going to see a M2 CS with a detuned S55 engine with 400hp soon, that will be fun.
and cayman gt4 or gts
Your prediction is happening. But it’s way more than 400hp😂
wow Jethro is actually telling it like it is. much respect.
the M2 auto is a lot quicker
the rasp on TTRS is nice
Damn the Cayman sounds like shit!
>Your mother sounded like shit, when she delivered you...! You idiot! Go back to elementary school... schoolboy!
SJW Maniac I shouldn't have expected more with that username. Besides, the new Cayman does sound bad compared to previous generations. It needs an improvement.
hes with her lol
Right, the NA flat 6 is on a different level of sound quality.
Put a Suby badge on it, and it sounds great!
The average driver that can afford these cars will pull a faster time in the Audi every single lap. These are professional race car driver times, people always forget that. Audi Sport knows this simple fact of life
They should get dual clutch edition of cayman and M2 for proper comparison in all tests .
whats that whoosshy wind ish sound when the m2 revs high??? so confused, i swear thats not part of the inline 6 is it?? or is it because all sounds are recorded super close to exhausts? maybe that explains why my desk literally rumbles during the 718 part...my bass was just going crazy
This has put me off the TTRS. That ploughing is horrendous!
I wonder if the driver aides were on ? As Audi/VW driver aides tend are key to getting the thing to turn properly, with XDS+ giving the LSD effect and braking of inside wheels to make it pivot. I understand that track 🚘 ng you typically turn everything off, but as you don't need to worry about traction control cutting in on TTRS due to Quattro, I bet you get less understeer with the XDS+ being allowed to do it's thing.
Porsche still #1, very cool and love that Miami Blue.
Direct and honest analysis
Great review 👌 definatly need to make more of these vids in the future.
Thanks a lot for the video and great driving there Jethro!
I had the previous TT and agree they still understeer badly now have an M2 DCT and best car for me by far cannot comment on the 718 probably the best sports car for the price range but the four-cylinder engine lets it down..
242 laps on the Ring in my new 718 Boxster S;
sound does not matter, when going in big circles.
how much of the difference in handling behavior is just down to the factory alignments?
It'd be cool to get a MPH readout during the laps too! Great stuff as always
such a good video. thanks.
Great video! Would like to hear the cars from the interior though, to get a better feel for the cars
This guy can't drive Quattro....Stuck and Röhrl should give him lessons 👍
Get another driver, he drives the TT RS like its an m2 or cayman for that matter. His corner entry speed is way too high for the quattro rs, he's trying to make it behave like an m2. Not saying the RS would beat the porsche and bmw, which are better track cars probably. But when looking at other comparissons on track featuring the new TT RS it should have done a lot better imo.
anjeroxjp I totally agree with you, that’s so obvious
I'll say I'm quite disappointed in the M2 so far... still that TT's engine is a monster! Could it be that Audi have caught up to BMW or is it that BMW and the M division have slowed down or become static over the years? OK trolls my opinion and question as a M car owner. Brilliant honest review I could watch your videos all day any day. Thank you!
Stock M2 sucks, simple as that
1. way to heavy (needs massive weight reduction)
2. brakes sucks (see point 1) can fix with proper race pads
3. oem wheel/tires setups is terrible, need's light R18' square setup + semis slicks
4. engine is good, power is not a problem, just need to improve on cooling - avoiding the heat soak
Still Audi beats it out of the box.. yes I know Porsche this and that but Audi (nothing against Audi as a brand) with all the oversteer... would seriously consider a RS Audi as a next car... disappointed 😔.. I guess Porsches influence in Audi is working... Wake up BMW!
The BMW is for driving pleasure, not numbers car like Audi
Hea Mees there once was a time when driving pleasure, finesse and balance was what BMW was known for. Very few cars could outperform a BMW in its class on the track course. Now.........
Agreed, BMW's M-Division has lost its way in recent years. They've been tasked with increasing production and profits over building once spirited and exciting cars (but really, who hasnt in this day and age?). Porsche still has some of that luster left, but again is slowly being dwindled away with turbo only engine lineups or PDK only transmission options (thankfully they listen and we've been granted reprieve, for now).
comparing an automatic 4wd audi rs with two manual 2wd cars seems not too fair
Real life driving on real roads the RS WILL DESTROY
Chris Hall on real roads with real weather conditions with an average driver the rs is going to be the easiest car to drive fast
Exactly why I chose a TTRS over the competition.
now imagine the Porsche and BMW with DCT.
I'm imagining a less engaging driving experience.
Neah, just better braking and it would be much better. He's not the only one complaining about the M2 brakes, I think i've heard that thing in other places also.
Having better brakes means you could brake so much later and having more exit speed on the corners. I bet the M2 with proper brakes would give Cayman a run for his money.
heck, just take away the steering wheel and paddles are digital buttons.
RaGeAlucard Christ... why would I want to imagine that? The head of Audi's RS division laughed when asked why RSs don't come with manual transmissions any more. "Ha ha..our customers don't want such things." he said. The guy knows his buyers, and I'm glad they're kept in understeery, 4wd lumps filled with driver aids and airbags.
that Cayman even with a manual is faster on track no doubt even with 50 less hp then the Audi with pdk maybe a 1 or 2 second more now the cayman is a 2 seater 2 door so you have to consider that the car is a compromise in usability also while the audi have 4 seats 4wd granted the rear seats are quite useless the bmw is the real hero in my books honestly its 35 hp down on the ttrs better rear seats more boot space then either the cars and with the dct just as if not faster then the ttrs on track and its a front engine rear wheel drive best for drifting and having fun the audi cant really drift or slide just understeer the cayman dont like drifting
I would have a hard time deciding between the M2 and the Cayman S
You could just see how horrendous the TT's understeer was and the M2 was faster through every part of the track sub that last sector where the Audi made up a deficit of nearly 6/10ths on those two straights.
Beautiful driving, great tests. But for the love of god porsche! We want your 6 cylinder back
Haha TTRS beats an M car. Imagine if they actually made a rws ttrs. Would eat the cayman as well
Wise choice in changing the voice over!
Huge outlet, massive backing and budget; can't do an apples to apples comparison of these cars with their auto boxes. With the DCT the M2 would have beaten the considerably more powerful Audi around the track and with the PDK the Porsche would have been in a different stratosphere. That would be a fair reflection of these cars chassis', instead the Audi gets artificially boosted by having a faster box with closer ratios than either of the other two despite those two having that option.
Thanks for the constantly changing camera views on the fast lap, so we can never see what the car is actually doing.
Very nice video
the quattro system relies on power being put down in the corners thats why it under-steers if you dont. try putting 10% power down when cornering and the quattro system will make the steering far more precise.
this guys the gordon ramsay/simon cowell of reviewers holy shit
Great critical Vid!!! Not just silly glorifications!! M2 is too heavy, but comparing the Porsche and the Audi: You give up 1.5s with the Audi on this curvy track but you get a proper boot and an everyday / all year capable AWD.
Don't understand why Audi cant handle the front axle.. there are a lot of front engine / FWD cars who are really sharp to drive. Audi should make a more track focused version.
So far we have seen power figures, a drag race and lap times. We drive performance cars because of how they make us feel, not because of the figures. At least I do. If the fourth video only counts as 1 point out of 4 the winner would actually be the least pleasing car to drive out of the 3. I hope know one buys a TT based on these videos.
Why not use the Cayman GTS along with PDK? Would embarrass the others.
I'm an Audi fan, but I wouldn't touch that TTRS with a 10 foot pole without it having a manual transmission.
If I had to pick one. It'd be the TTRS. The AWD in Seattle is a no brainer.
Am I the only person tripped out that this video was narrated by Thomas of Throttle House??
Pretty telling that despite having a whole 51bhp more than the M2, and being 57kg lighter, the TT RS is still only a 10th of a second quicker around the track. Pretty clear that BMW's actual engineering and balancing is far superior to Audi's.
And yet the TTRS is still faster. The M2 gets destroyed round the ring.
Did they all have the same tire ... ?
Stiil for my the best its audi you can play with suspension camber tire presure etc too make this car mutch more playfull and on wet or snow its Crazy car :)
ESP settings were changed for the fast lap or default?
So close in performance I wonder if all being on the same rubber would either make or break one of these cars. I hate that these comparisons NEVER list tire sizes and brand/model tires they are run on. My TTS never seems to have the understeer they always complain about. I also replaced the tires with a decent set of 265/30r19
why wasn't he shifting for him self with the audi ? why was it in sports automatic? :/
MRCroosingTootH maybe he's not a real racing driver but rather just a reviewer
Are you new? Jethro is legit: www.evo.co.uk/authors/jethro-bovingdon
He was. He even complained that when bouncing off the rev-limiter the car didn't want to shift up fast enough and that this was why he preferred the manual.
right, when a few minutes later he was driving manual and rev matching. you're an idiot
Anthony I commented before he drove the manual.i take it back
why didnt you guys go for the dct transmission m2?/
I suppose they don't "go" for anything - they get supplied with a car for a few days and that is what you have to work with.
I'm surprised DriveTribe didn't include an Evora 400 in the comparison.
Love these videos
Biggest problem with the M2 and TT is they are so common on UK roads you’d never give them a second look, the desirability to own one just isn’t there
Why don't they talk about the price difference between these cars as built. Not base but what they really cost. The TT RS is $75k fully loaded. A fully loaded Porsche Cayman 718 S is approaching $100k.
I am very surprised about the Porsche brakes fading thing. The 718 S has the carrera brakes and with less curb weight it should never have that issue!!!! What is happening ppl!!!!????
Awesome job, well done
All his comments about brakes really just make me want to get a caterham
What tire on each car?
They are road cars by the way. Which one is best on the road? Nobody ever looks at this.
I really hope we get to see a 718 GT4!
Ok so here is my 6 cents. The Porsche should not be in the picture because of price. When would you ever run into the BMW or Cayyman? Maybe at a traffic light? Then just smoke them! If I wanted to go racing, I would buy a Miata! Most fun for the money.
Why is the audio of this video is so poor?