How to swap a C4 Transmission for a T5 Transmission (Part 2 of 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Finally installing a T5 5-speed transmission.
This video is the second of two videos where I go through the steps to remove the automatic trans and swap in a T5.
Parts needed:
T5 Transmission (ideally from a V8 Mustang 1983 - 1993, other years and cars will work, but it may require additional parts and compromises)
Bellhousing
157T Flywheel
10 inch or 10.5 inch clutch, 10T
Clutch lever (these use a "pull" style)
Driveshaft (I used the one from my C4 setup, no modification required)
Crossmember made for these swaps
Transmission mount (between trans and crossmember)
New Flywheel bolts (it's not worth it to use the old bolts)
Clutch Bolts
Speedometer gear (you might be able to use the one in your last Transmission, but now is an easy time to make sure you have the right tooth count gear)
Shifter lever
Shift Ball
Shift boot
Three quarts of Synthetic ATF fluid (do not use gear oil)
Your choice of clutch engagement kits (I went with a cable actuation here, but you can also choose hydraulic or use the factory Z-bar mechanism)
Last, depending on if you had a Manual or Auto before this swap, you'll need to address the third pedal under the dash. I made a whole separate video about dealing with that. :)
The car is a 1966 Mustang Fastback with a factory V8 and T5 transmission.
Shot with GoPro Hero 8 with the Media Mod, edited on Davinci Resolve 17.
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#Mustang
#1966
#Fastback
Andy I am so glad that I stumbled upon your videos on Reddit, they are without a doubt some of the most comprehensive amateur installation videos I've seen. I'm in the last stages of finishing up the fuel injection conversion on my '69, and now you've given me the confidence to take this project on as well. Thanks!
Awesome, thanks for the feedback! :)
I’ve got a 69 too! Considering EFI. What did you go with?
@@KMD583 Edelbrock Pro Flo 4, with the new intake, and fuel rails and injectors pre-installed. Highly recommended.
My 1985 had 5 speed with a 2.73, swapping in 3.73 traction lock. Night and day difference. Loved it
Yeah, short gears like the 3.73 are a lot of fun. :)
Andy your a good mechanic. Thanks for sharing and keeping us motivated.
Ha, shade-tree mechanic at best.
But thank you. :)
I swapped my c4 for a t5 with a short throw shifter. Now it's like a whole new car
It's fun when a change changes how the car feels and drives. :)
I had a 65' in high school my dad and I built from a junkyard. After we got it up and running we bought a 66' and swapped the 4 speed into it. It was very hi geared and I could get about 45 mph in first. The 66' had 3.5 gears so we swapped the rear end out and oh my God did it make a difference! I pulled so hard. I loved the car, biggest mistake I ever made selling it. I'm about to retire for a second time so Im planning to get a 66' convertible to fix up.
Sounds like getting a new project car will be just what you need. :)
17 years ago I swapped out a 3 speed manual to a T5wc in my 67 mustang convertible. Same issues you had! I bought a used 94 t5 and had to get a different input shaft to fit the bell housing… brings back some good and bad memories! I also had a 2.79 rear end I swapped to a 3.55 with a truetrak limited slip diff, all gear, no clutches to wear out! This summer I’m pulling the engine to install a new short block and I think I’m going to a cable clutch which means I need a new bell housing! I had to cut off the original ‘ear’ on it to use the Z bar linkage!!!
MDL makes a great external hydraulic kit, if you're in the market. :)
You make everything look so easy, thanks Andy
I promise it's all in the slick camera angles and fancy editing. :)
Andy im so jealous! I'm like 2 major projects behind you, I did finally get the complete disc brake upgrade done, and 3:55 rear-end installed. But we both know a 3 speed automatic just doesn't cut it. Great video, it'll help me when I do the T5 in the summer.
Awesome, keep your eyes peeled for a Rear Diff video! :)
Andy, once again, a great video. I do enjoy watching your upgrades. I'm sure you spend a lot of time, getting the parts together. Looks like your shifter boot worked perfectly.
Thanks 👍
The shifter boot is a little stretched, but I think I can fix that down the road. :)
I won't be specific since this is the internet, but during the shot at 36:54, I immediatley recognized that location. Pretty funny coincidence! Also nice vid. I'm doing the same job on my 82 capri, and you provided some good info
Good luck with your install. :)
Had to come back and watch this one again, pretty sweet set up the cars gotta be way more fun!
It probably wouldn’t hurt to run through the playlist again. 😉
Andy I figure your somewhere in the PNW from the look of the greenery and wet roads!. We live in Tacoma and I'm into the third day of my T5 Install in my 66 couple. Thank you so much for the content it has cleared up so many of the question I had after reading the limited instructions from Modern Drive Lines. Hope to say hi sometime at a car show. I owe you big!!!
Sometimes we just need someone to show us what to do as it can be difficult to put tasks into words. I hope your swap continues to go smoothly! :)
Great work! I been thinking about converting my 68 fairlane to a T5.
Go for it!
Wow.. I subbed one minute after you started talkin.. great presentation.. but as a member of the International Andy Club.. I am not surprised
Haha, welcome to the club. Hopefully you'll be able to pull nugget of info from my videos. :)
Very good camera and lighting and explanation work Andy, a lot of people video in the dark and you can’t see what they’re doing, 👍🇦🇺
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. :)
Dang it Andy - just watched part 1 and part 2...and I do believe ur gonna cost me some money (don't tell my wife 😉). I have a C4 now and I really want to go manual. My engine is out so now would be the perfect time to do the swap. Great video - Thanks so much!!!
Awesome, good luck!
You may have to do what I did, negotiate with the Boss and see what she needs if you find that you need a T5. :)
You site keeps popping up. The input shaft for a Tremec is about 5/8th inch longer. I drilled two holes on the Tremec bell housing to use the 1965 fulcrum and throwout arm. A aluminum spacer between the fulcrum and inside the bell housing allowed me to use all the original pedal, Z bar, linkage. For those not wanting to go hydraulic or cable. The saved money went into an aluminum driveshaft.
That's by design, now that I've got you here, there's over 300 videos I need you to watch. :)
Great job Andy. I'm getting ready to put a world T5nin my 74 Ford Bronco. I'm running 3:50:1 gearing and innerstate cruising can be a little noisy. I liked this video a lot.
Thanks Brotha! Good luck with the install, you’ve got this! 😁
Andy, another great video. Yours are the best on TH-cam. You do a great job of filming and showing exactly how to do things and most of the time it’s right on. I really appreciate it and I have used your videos as I am restoring my 65. I sure wish I could go with the five speed, I know it’s fun, But from time to time my old left knee gives out, so I am afraid to go with it. 😢
Thanks!
I feel your pain on the knee issue, that's why I have the hydraulic clutch kit on my car now, it is effortless to operate, I recommend it! :)
@@AndyKruseChannel do you have a video on that?
@@TexarkanaPrepper I have an install video of how to do the hydraulic clutch on the car in this video (it came out not too long after this video), but I don't have much on the hydraulic clutch on my current car. Mostly because I already had a video, but partially because I split up the install because I was waiting for the motor to be installed to finish that clutch install. :)
that V8 just sings !!!!
It does now, not so much back when this video was made. :)
Nice project. As for installation of the shifter boot and having to drill holes to install, I refer you to 21:09 of your video where you can see the captured/welded threaded square nuts in the underside of the transmission tunnel where the shifter boot is to be attached (these were also used to mount the automatic transmission shifter).
Yeah, those holes didn't align with my trim ring of the shifter boot. I later fixed the issue I was having where I made a similar plate to what you are referring to, it perfect now. :)
Very good to watch. Very informative. Well done
Thank you very much!
Nice work! That’s a big upgrade going from the c4 to the t5.
Thanks!
Next time I'm bringing it to your place, it's easier when there's two people. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Definitely
Another great video Andy, sounds awesome!
Many thanks!
Andy, I would recommend going to either 3.55 or even 3.80 gears with a Yukon posi . There are a lot of TH-cam videos on setting up your 8 inch ring and pinion gears . I did 3.80 gears with the Yukon posi in my 8 inch and the Tremic TKX trans .
I like you're thinking..... :)
Awesome video. Instructional and entertaining. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
Very nice video as always! Dude how many gopros do you use to film? I've been doing it wrong the whole time. I need to get more I think. Car sounds great and looks like a lot of fun.
Thanks!!
I only have two GoPros (5 and 8). The one outside I had to stop and keep moving to get the shots. :)
I was going to ask the same. Did u use a suction cup adapter? I was gonna try it but got scared 😢. Maybe a quick YT Short to show the setup?
@@mando82jr Yes, there's a GoPro adapter that works great, no issues.
Awesome work! Just found your channel and I have my 66 coupe. I’m looking for a fox body t5 now. I have a race prepped c4 with a 3.90 rear and it’s HORRIBLE on the highway. Beautiful car and great work!
I need to cut my hood like you did also Love the channel!
Awesome, thanks for the support, and welcome to the fun! :)
Hell ya! Would have probably dropped in a new mini-starter while I was in there, but looks great all around. I'll be doing this to my 63' falcon here soon, should be similar.
Mini starter? I like your thinking, check out my recently posted videos. :)
Rowing through those gears!…. Sounds good too
Gotta have it! :)
Love your videos man. Saying hi from Los Angeles
Hey, thanks!
I truly enjoy watching you and your videos :)
Thanks for that!
You made it look easy, definitely something I want to do to my 68 Fastback, wish I lived in the States though cause prices for the T5 are crazy. MDL can get me what I need but I have import costs and taxes to pay once it lands in NZ. Will be lucky if it'll cost me less than $10k NZD to do it myself. Did you film your rebuild of the T5 as well?
Without sounding over confident, this swap really is easy. Anyone with a basic set of tools should be able to get it done.
There may be a way to get the T5 if you look at junk yards/scrap yards for Ford cars from '83-'04. There's other cars too, but a list of all T5 transmissions found online is a great place to start to see if you can find something you can salvage.
I did not film the rebuild as I wasn't sure if I could get it all done my self. I jumped in and gave it a shot and by the time I realized I could do all the work, most of it was done and too late to start a video. Even then, the videos I used for the rebuild are way better than what I'd put together, no point in reinventing the wheel at that point.
If anyone is interested in a T5 rebuild video, anything with Paul Cangialosi or Junkyard Doggs is where I'd start. Its a good thing TH-cam doesn't charge me by the view count on the videos I watch. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel saw that video too. Down under in NZ we have the Ford Falcons and Holdens. I believe the EB XR8 Falcon used a T5 produced August 1991 - August 1993, but have no idea if it'll work as there is nothing online with a definitive answer, all right hand drive here too. Ideally I get the box here and the components and parts from MDL in the states....
Nicely done Andy
Thanks 👍
I think that is like you said awesome. Really like the idea of the t-5
Yeah, it's been a great upgrade for this car and my last car. :)
Mentions the hall effect in passing. This is how engineers stand out in the crowd
It's the little things...... :)
Love your channel. Great content!
Awesome, thank you!
Great video. It doesn’t look as complicated as I would’ve thought. Did I miss your installation of the clutch/pedal?
Thanks!
While this is my second time doing the swap on a Classic Mustang, I do feel this is fairly easy to do once you see someone go through the steps. You really don't even need any specialty tools for the swap, standard stuff will work.
Yes, the clutch pedal video came out a few days ago. :)
Man awesome content and great info. This video will help me doy t5 swap on my 77 maverick
Awesome, glad to hear it!
Andy you number 1 perfect video perfect job
Awesome, thanks for the compliment! :)
Hey, Andy. After watching your videos. I've gained enough confidence to try and do this T5 conversion myself. I've got everything I need, with the exception of headers. Do you have a part number for the headers you used on your car?
Nice, you've got this, it's not as intimidating as it may look.
I have JBA Shorty headers (1650S) and the JBA cross pipe (1650SH), but this cross pipe doesn't work with most subframe connectors for the trans mount. In the video I show the cheap eBay unit, then I had to buy the MDL unit and slightly modify it to make it work. It's been almost a year and I have had zero issues, but I just wanted to give you a heads up if you go that route. :)
Hi Andy, always thankful for your library of videos. I know you don’t have the C4 anymore, but I have a question ; been dealing g with leaks . What’s your Tran. Pan torque specs , 9-12 lbs? What tool do you use to tighten? How do you know the torque is ok?
Thank you
Richard
That sounds about right. The biggest issue these pans have with leaks is someone in the past over tightening them which slightly dimples the sheet metal, makes the pan not seal with the gasket. You may need to pull the pan off and flatten the flanges where the bolts go through. You can probably see the holes in the flange dimpled in a bit. :)
Hi Andy, great vid! Did you notice a significant increase in fuel efficiency / MPG after switching to an OD transmission?
No, but that's be cause I don't put many miles on this car, and when I do there is a lot of WOT because I want to have fun with this car. :)
finally the best mod for a car to make it a different feel of a car , more racy feeling and connection with the car.is the clutch ordered on a 1991 mustang ? or wath is the part number?
(i'm building a 331 stroker so i hope the t5 world class can handle it)
nice how to do vid . keep the vids coming 🙂
Thanks!
The clutch for this swap is a standard, nothing fancy unit from MDL. The part number is MD-O7-14C. It fits flywheels with a 10 inch bolt pattern and fits the T5 10 spline input shaft.
The T5 will be fine on a 331 stroker, the key is to minimize the 5000 rpm clutch drops to paint rubber stripes down the road. :)
Enjoyed the video. Thankk you
No problem, thanks for watching! 😁
excellent [play by play]. subbed
Welcome to the club! :)
Hey great video Man, did you have to check the bell housing run-out like in your last swap? And cool change of pace for the ride along!
Thanks!
I did not check the run-out. While I probably should have, I did not do it on this car.
little late now, but jba has an h-pipe made specifically for cars with a t5 swap. thats probably why you had those issues.
Probably, but that second crossmember (not the cheap ebay unit) did the trick. :)
This video was awesome, like most of you videos. Just curious, why you skipped bell housing alignment.
While it is important, it's less critical on cast housings since they're all made from a mold. The weldment style (like the popular Quick Time units) are built in a jig and there can be some very subtle variance in the weldment. This doesn't mean the cast style is perfect or that it can't have a subtle flaw, but these units did not have the runout measured on each car when they were installed on the Ford assembly line. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel I'm right in the middle of this swap right now.
Great video Andy. Your videos have helped me a lot on my 66 Coupe. I was wondering how you figured out which speedometer gear to put on? I think I have an 8 inch rear but I'm not sure of the ratio. Had a 4 speed in the car before.
First, you'd need to know which driven gear is inside the trans. At the least, you can peek in the side of the tail housing and see the gear, then count the teeth. Next, you'll want to know the gear ratio in the rear. There should be a tag on the front side of the third member that tells you the gear ratio. Is it's not there, you can spin one of the tires one full rotation and count the number of times the pinion gear on the third member spins. There are only a handful of realistic gear ratios for the 8", so it will be easy to see if it's a 2.80, 3.0, 3.25, 3.4, 3.55, 3.8, or 4.11. If it's a stock third member, it will be one of those lower numbers. Then find out the circumference of your rear tires. Finally, take all those numbers and find a website (there are many) that allows you to calculate the speed gear tooth count you need. This is another area that won't be exact, but you should be able to get a gear that is close, something that is less than 3 mph off when going 60 mph. Good luck!
Did you use the same starter from the C4 on the T5? On the old mustangs, ford had different starters for automatic and manual transmissions. Supposedly the difference is the ones for automatic transmissions stick further into the bellhousing. And somehow if things don't jelly just right, you can ruin a flywheel using an automatic transmission starter on a manual transmission setup.
Yes, I used the same starter that was on the car when I bought it. However, I don't know which starter I had (assuming one could tell the difference from looking at it), and this car was originally a manual. Somewhere along its life someone converted it to an Auto. I observed no problems with the starter or damage to the flywheel. I eventually upgraded the starter to a more powerful unit from PowerMaster, but it was because of my engine upgrade, not because there was anything wrong with the starter. :)
Mine is a 67. I'm having a hard time finding enough information to do my engine transmission swap. From and inline6 to some type of a V8...
The are a lot of similarities between the '66 and '67 when it comes to swapping in a motor and trans, so this video will get you part of the way there. You may want to check out Vintage Mustang Forum for additional help on smaller details of the swap. :)
Thanks you.
Great video, I'm unsure why he didn't have the clutch pedal assembly laid out with all the new parts?
It was already installed in the car by the time I got to this part of the swap (there's a separate video for the pedal assembly). :)
Love the vids ! Getting ready to put a t5 in my 67 mustang. Which clutch/pressure plate and flywheel set up did you go with?
Thanks!
Clutch and pressure plate number MD-07-14C, Flywheel number MD-CS157-28D, all from Modern Driveline. :)
Awesome video once again! I'm planning on putting the same T5 in my 68 coupe in a few weeks once I get the rest of the parts together. What kind of flywheel/clutch assembly are you using? I have the original 4 speed manual in place now and wasn't sure if I could re-use the existing clutch/flywheel or buy a new one.
Thanks!
You can re-use your clutch and flywheel as long as you plan to retain the clutch mechanism (Z-bar in your case). If you choose to upgrade to the cable conversion or hydraulic actuation, you'll need a new clutch and possibly a new flywheel (depending on the clutch bolt hole pattern). If you're looking to change the clutch actuation, I'd suggest calling MDL and explaining your scenario, they'll be able to point you down the correct path based on your build plan. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel thanks! I’ll keep that in mind!
Andy, is this the factory hood or did you replace it? If you did replace it, what brand is that? Awesome job on the Transmission!!
Thanks!
Sorry Boss, I don't know if the hood is the OEM piece or not, it was on the car when I bought it. :)
@AndyKruseChannel yes sir! That is an awesome ride! I'm doing my wife's 64 1/2 which came with a 6 and a 3 speed. Just put a 302 in and will do the T5 swap. Your videos are a huge help!!!
Awesome video this conversion is moving to the top of my list! What was your budget for this? I'm seeing the transmission itself running between $1,100-2,000 not including bell housing and other components..
Was this a new unit or a refurbished?
I'm into this particular swap about $2500, but I was almost $4500 into this same swap on my last Mustang. There were several things I didn't need to buy this round, but part of that is due to getting the "right" T5 and using some parts already on my car. It's safer to buy a T5 from places like MDL or a local transmission shop as they're likely to have been gone through recently and often come with a warranty. But, nothing is free, so those T5s will be more expensive. I purchased this T5 from a local guy off Facebook for $250. The guy seemed legit, but the price was too good to be true. Turned out that there were several teeth missing from the mating gear for 4th on the intermediate shaft. But, when buying the new intermediate shaft and rebuilding it myself (there's lots of good videos on TH-cam on how to do that) and buying some needed tools, it was still cheaper than what I paid for my first T5 and I was able to skip the rebuild labor costs I had to pay last time. However, not everyone is in a position to do that kind of work, let alone be willing to give it a try.
Another thing to consider are used parts. While not ideal for some people, this can be a way to shave a few bucks off the total. The single most expensive item I had was the Cable Conversion Kit (the Hydraulic Kit is almost double that price). The bellhousing was also a pricey piece, but people can find these used all the time. I think it's robbery for what they charge for the Crossmember Support, but I wasn't in the mood to make my own so it is what it is.
If you bought all new parts (like I did), you can safely put aside $2000 for everything but the T5. That will get you what you need and give you flexibility if you want something nicer than what I have for one part, but willing to go a lesser route for another part. It's easier and cheaper if you stick with the '83-'93 T5s, but the newer units will work, it just takes more money. For info on installing the '94-'04 T5s in a classic Mustang, check out the T5 swap video I did last year.
Used unit.
@@AndyKruseChannel I saw your last series on the coupe! I agree it's murder how much some of the components cost. I have a local place that has several refurbed units and also carries plenty of components. I'll be converting from a 3spd manual and would like to use most of the parts that can carryover assuming they are in good shape still.
Are you going to swap the rear end out next to improve acceleration? I guess it all depends on what most of your driving is. I'm city almost exclusively so don't mind highway speed cruising at s higher RPM, just not 1:1 high 😁
@@jordanschultz2232 I don't want to give away any details on the new rear gear and limited slip purchase I made... wait..... doh!!
People should always get a new drive shaft/tail shaft.
Why?
Hi Andy, how it going ?
Question , I noticed a bit of leaking atf between the bell housing and the tran pan. Any suggestions to a cause?
I thought it was my pan , but the fluid seems up towards housing connection to the front end pan area
Thanks
By saying trans pan, I'm assuming you have an Auto. If you're certain it's not the pan gasket, then my guess would be the seal on the input shaft of the Auto. There's fluid in the torque converter and the seal between that and the transmission where the input shaft is located might be done. :)
Hey Andy I was wondering why didn’t you go the hydraulic route like the coupe? Would you still recommend the set up you had in the coupe I have the cable and I was wanting to go hydraulic mainly because I see my fire wall flexing a little
Mostly cost, as the Hydraulic Kit is about $200 more than the Cable Kit. If money wasn't an issue, Hydraulic any day of the week.
@@AndyKruseChannel good to hear I was wondering why the switch so I was hesitant at first. Your video for the hydraulic kit isn’t the cost around 200 for the entire kit? It’s been a while since I watched it but were there other parts needed? I just ran the number for the kit from mdl
@@lucianohernandez3468 There are two parts to the kit, the master cylinder (about $320) and the slave cylinder (about $225). You have to select them separately on the MDL site as there are a few different models and designs, it depends on what you want.
Andy awesome job, I have a 66 FB C4 as well, any concerns with just going with a new tremec T5?
Thanks!
I would have loved to get a new Trans, but the budget forces a used purchase. But if I had the funds, I would have purchased a new TKX, or possibly a T56.
Lovely video, literally just what I needed as I’m about to do this with my 67! I’m back and fourth on if I want the hydraulic clutch, you briefly mentioned it, but from having a Hydraulic clutch to now cable, I’m curious as to why you went the cable over hydraulic? I’m leaning on going cable as well.
Thanks!
I had to put the Hydraulic actuation on my last Mustang (I have a whole video about it and why), but this round I went with the Cable option for two reasons. One, the Cable option is almost 1/2 the price of the Hydraulic option. Two, I don't mind the required "push" to get the Cable to disengage the clutch. So people don't like that it takes additional leg strength to actuate the Cable clutch, but I don't mind because I'm old school and that's just how it used to be. On the other hand, the Hydraulic actuation is buttery smooth and incredibly easy to actuate. If the price was the same, I might have just gone with the Hydraulic. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Ahh makes sense! Yeah after all my research only difference I could really see was it is "harder" to push with the cable but I agree that isn't a problem for me at all, and the additional cost for hydraulic isn't worth it for me at the moment. But awesome this video couldn't have came out at a better time. hoping I don't have an issue with my long tube headers and the cable like you did before
@@lukegoodwin2160 I hope you don't have an issue either. MDL has a list of headers on their website that are known to work with the Cable Clutch, it might be worth it to check it out. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Do you know where that link is on their website? I've been endlessly researching trying to find out what long tube headers will work with the cable clutch. I'm almost done with my 347 build and do not want to go shorties on it. Thanks!
@@lukegoodwin2160 The list is inside the instructions for installing the cable clutch, and those instructions are available (in PDF form) on the page of the cable clutch kit. TH-cam won't let me put a link in the comments, but the instructions can be found on MDL's site when you get down to the specific kit for you car. :)
Hi I’m doing a t5 swap on my 65 I’m using a 88 t5 with the stock 88 bell housing so my question is do I use a 88 flywheel and clutch or the 65 flywheel and clutch? Thanks love your videos
That '88 flywheel has a 50oz imbalance, so unless you've updated your harmonic balancer to also have a 50oz imbalance, you'll want to stick with the flywheel on your '65. The clutch is another story. This is dependent on the clutch actuation you plan to go with. If you are planning to use the factory 'z-bar', you'll want to use the '65 clutch, or at least a new one (call MDL, they'll have exactly what you need). If you're using a cable actuation or a hydraulic actuation, you'll want to get the modern 'push' style. This is another area where you can call MDL with your setup and they'll tell you the parts you need. Good luck, you've got this!! :)
Your content is great! I've learned a lot, you explain very clearly and give lots of useful insight.
I have a question I was hoping you could help me with (or anyone in the comment section for that matter).
I found a 1994 BorgWarner T5 transmission for my 1966 Ford Mustang. I know 94´ T5 models are not the ideal for a 1966 mustang as the transmission input shaft is longer, the ideal ones are 93 and below. However after hearing your statement at 1:06 where you were able to adapt a 2001 T5, gives me hope that the 94 can be adapted.
I still have the original 1966 Bellhousing tho.
What do I need in order to be able to adapt the 1994 BorgWarner T5 transmission to my inline 6 1966 Mustang? Would I need a T5 adapter plate for 6 bolt Bellhousing? I reckon i'll have to adjust the drive shaft, correct? Anything else that I'm not contemplating? Is it a dead end?
I appreciate any comment, I'm here to learn.
If you are set on putting that T5 with your I6 engine, you'll want to reach out to MDL and tell them what you have and they'll tell you what you need to make it work. They may have a bellhousing that will bolt up to your I6, so I guess you'll want to solve that equation first. If so, then you'll need to get the shorter input shaft and come up with a solution for the crossmember bolts are about an inch farther back and the speedo on the Trans is not a mechanical drive like your current setup. Fortunately I have a few of these solution in my other T5 swap video (summer 2021) where I put in that 2001 T5 you just mentioned. Check that video out.
It's not a dead end, it just might cost more than you want and you'll have to decide if it's worth chasing or make changes to the car/motor to make it work. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Thank you very much Andy, i´ll check out your other T5 video. I asked MDL and they told me it´s a dead end lol, but I´m not giving up yet. I still have the original bellhousing that goes with my inline6, so I´ll see if I still can adapt it. Worst case scenario i´ll sell it and hope to get the proper one.
Final question, once you were able to swap your 2001 T5 to your old Mustang, did you have frequent problems with the installation/adaptation? or once it was set up it worked just fine?
@@jcrb0 I hate to break it to you, but if MDL says it's a dead end, it probably is (unless you've got money for custom parts). If you're set on keeping your 6, you're limited in what you can do with it. It might be worth it to find a 289/302 locally and shove that in there, then the T5 will work great.
Once I got the T5 installed, it was easy as pie, with the exception of the clutch cable that I melted. But that was my fault for not following the directions from MDL and header choice. I had zero problems with that trans, and so I did it again on my next Mustang. Everything is great!! 😀
Andy, I too love your videos. I recently did a T5 swap for my 3 speed in my 67 Fastback. In the first runs I’m hearing a kind of whoa whoa sound in 1st gear as I accelerate and it’s noisier than I expected in 1st gear. Worrying Ive got a problem. Any advice or comment? It’s a new T5 from MDL.
Thanks!
Um, not sure where to begin. Using words to describe the sound is not easy, so I'm already lost on the "whoa whoa".
If it's a new unit from MDL, then it's probably not the Trans. However, if it's only in first gear, you can almost eliminate everything outside of the Trans. I did find the long threaded rod of my parking brake (once I finally installed my parking brake) was very subtly touching the u-joint right at the output of the Trans. After trimming the length of that rod down, the sound went away. However, I'm not sure how the parking brake is setup on the '67.
You may need to put the car on jackstands, fire it up, and put it in gear. As long as you don't get crazy with the wheel speeds, you should be able to hear the sound with the car in the air. You'll need so help, maybe have a buddy sit in the seat to keep the speed low while you listen. Try not to get under the car, but you may be able to see something rubbing if it's an external issue. Good luck!!
@@AndyKruseChannel thanks for the quick reply. I did put the car on blocks to turn the wheels. Sure seems like the noise is coming from the transmission. I say noise but also a vibration is part of this. I did find an exhaust bolt looking like it was touching the floor. Fixed that and no real change. I’ll take a close look at the emergency brake cable set up but pretty much as you describe on the 66. I’ll be calling MDL.
great job on the videos. it appears if you have power brakes the booster will be in the way of hole needed for clutch cable. Any thoughts?
I cannot confirm if the booster would be in the way, but the cable is sort of flexible, it might be able to be routed over the top of the booster to the firewall. Also, if it is (which MDL can confirm for you) you could do the hydraulic option. I went from Cable to Hydraulic on my last Mustang and I made a video of how that install went. The master cylinder for the hydraulic clutch mounts closer to the fender wall, so it would definitely clear the booster for the power brakes. The hydraulic actuation is much, much smoother and easier to use that the cable, I just went with the cable because of my budget. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Appreciate what your doing. Have a 66 coupe. endless possibilities with these cars as long as the wallet can handle it. Thank you Sir!
Which clutch was that? MDL, Zoom? New or sourced? I'm thinking about doing the same C4 to T5 or maybe TKX soon. Also, what would you say your gas mileage was, and what is it now? (looking a pros, cons, etc)
The clutch is a new unit from MDL, part number MD-07-14C. If it's in the budget, I'd recommend the TKX over the T5. I may upgrade to the TKX down the road.
I never paid attention to gas mileage on this car, as I drive it so infrequently and with a heavy foot. :)
Thank you for the quick reply.@@AndyKruseChannel How come the TKX over the T5? T5 not sturdy enough? I'm looking at a good deal on a brand new T5 + new bellhousing + new Crossmember for $1450
The TKX is rated for much more power and in my case, I am making more power than what the T5 is rated for. I have not broken anything yet, but that's a combo of me not driving like a mad man, but I also don't want to break anything right now so I'm being mindful of that while I drive.
As long as the guts of that T5 are not shredded, that sounds like a decent deal. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Makes sense. No, it's a brand new T5 from Tremec. Guy bought it and had to pause his project. I have a Blueprint 302 crate engine rated at 365 hp. It's a daily driver so while I'll get down on the throttle every now and again, I drive it likes it's a 50 year old car. (The good folks at Modern Driveline actually recommended at T5 over a TKX for my application.) My only hesitation is like you mentioned I don't want to feel like I have to be careful all the time. I think it'll be fine though. Appreciate your channel and your videos. I'm learning a lot!
@@bradstaton1934 New T5, Bellhousing, and Crossmember for $1450? Buy it.
Yeah, at 365 you'll be fine with a T5, just keep the 5k clutch drops to a minimum. Actually, you'll probably shred the 8" rear before you ruin the T5, so now you've got one more item to explore for your list. 😝
Andy, buying parts for my swap now. Do you have a part number or a link to the shifter you bought that doesn’t allow the shifter to over travel? I want to make sure I get the right one! Do you like it thus far?
That shift assembly I have is from LMR, part number SVE-7210A. I paid about $150 for it. You may be able to find a used shifter assembly on eBay if your budget is a little tighter. Maybe look up Steeda Tri-Ax or something from Summit Racing?
Andy, I’m doing a c4 to T5 now for my 66 so thanks for your videos! Should my stock driveshaft work? I think i’ll need to at least get a new slip yoke but I’m finding conflicting info.
The driveshaft you had with your C4 will fit. Both the length of the driveshaft and the yoke will all fit. That’ll save you a few bucks as you work through your swap. 🙂
@@AndyKruseChannel sweet! Thank you! Not sure why some people are telling me otherwise. I was wondering if it was cause you said you had a newer t5 but I might be confusing videos.
@@bry94608 The output shaft spline count is the same on the C4 and T5, so the yoke will fit. Buy new parts is not a bad idea as you'll know there's nothing wrong with them (cracks, stress marks, etc), but it's not needed to get your car heading down the road.
@@AndyKruseChannel appreciate you!
Got the t5 mounted but fyi the drive shaft is a little to too long. I wonder if I can cut the slip yoke a little. I’ll call MDL tomorrow.
I am about to do this swap,did you need to adjust the clutch cable at all or was it pretty good as installed?
I made sure everything was tight before going for a drive. I don't recall needing to tighten up the cable after driving around, everything seemed good from then on. :)
So I had my moms 65 mustang upgraded to the same t5 trans, the problem I’m having with it is that every shift it grinds. I have no real idea what to do when it comes to transmissions so I have no idea how to correct my problem. Any ideas that I could look at to try and fix it before I have to breakdown and take it to a shop?
My first guess are worn out synchros inside the transmission. Beyond that, maybe the clutch is not fully disengaging or possibly worn shift fingers (located inside the top of the trans, these can get stretched out over time). Lastly, maybe double check the fluid level and make sure there's enough ATF fluid inside there. Good luck!! :)
Do you have part numbers for the clutch pedal and all the other parts needed (I have the T5) but I’m trying to get an idea of what else I’ll need. Thank you
I don't know what parts you need because I don't know what you have so far. Your best bet is to head over to MDL and start with the clutch pedal. They usually put common needed parts on the bottom of the page for each individual item. But if you're still unsure, call the boys at MDL and tell them what you're working with, they'll be able to show you all the final pieces you need to get that T5 in your car. :)
Which flywheel and clutch bolts did u use? the clutch needs shouldered bolts because of the dowl pins that you cannot use ? Do you have a part number?
Flywheel bolts = ARP 100-2801. Clutch bolts = ARP 150-2201.
Correct, these clutch bolts have a shoulder because the dowels pins are not used. :)
Hey I just stumbled upon this your video and I have a 67 that I did this conversation on I had a C4 before I have a 302 in it and it makes that same wining noice from 1-4 and 5 doesn’t like going in (but that could be me I don’t have a tac and just go by noise) I was wondering if you had ever changed out you rear diff gear ratio and if you did did the noise go away?
By the time I installed this T5, I had not swapped out the rear end yet. I have since upgraded the rear end and I don't have any noticeable whining from the gears.
If you're having trouble getting 5th to go into gear, it's likely that your synchros need to be replaced. While you're in there, you might as well freshen up all the synchros, bearings, and seals. :)
Hi Andy, Why did you switch to the hydraulic clutch release? Was there something wrong with the cable release method?
I'm getting old and the relatively zero effort needed for the hydraulic actuation is better for me knee. For those on a budget, the cable actuation is perfectly fine, but if you've got the scratch, get the hydraulic version. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel I feel your pain. i just turned 62. What's you recommendation on headers?
If it's in the budget, FPA headers any day of the week. If the budget is less, then something like some Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers. :)
@AndyKruseChannel thanks Andy, I really appreciate your help and knowledge.
Hey, quick question. You have the JBA 1650SH front pipe for the C4, how does it fit with the T-5? I talked to JBA and they said it won't fit the T-5
I can see why they would say that as the crossmember I am using is from MDL but I had to slightly modify to make the JBA pipes work. Some crossmembers out there don't work with these JBA pipes (you can see why in my video), but the MDL unit is the closest one I found that will work. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Excellent, thanks for the reply. That is the crossmember I'm going with when the time comes to convert it to manual. I just didn't want to have to buy another front pipe when I change to the T-5.
How do you deal with the neutral safety switch that was connected to the c4 I just finish the swap but my starter won’t turn because my safety neutral switch it’s not connected do you bypass ? Thanks in advance
In this car it was not hooked up. As far as offering advice on how to bypass the neutral safety switch, I'm not your guy. :)
Great video. Wonder if this would work on a 69 Mustang with 302? I have a C4 now
Absolutely, but you'll likely need a different crossmember (MDL has a bunch to choose from) and I'm sure about the final driveline length, but you can do the swap. :)
Do you have the part number of the LMR shift assembly? Did you use a throw out bearing fork to trans boot?
Yep, part number SVE-7210A
Now we're talking!!
The excitement is real!
@@AndyKruseChannel Yes, I know the feeling. About 2 years ago, I converted my 1957 Belair 2drht from auto to a Tremec 5 speed. I had the same smile on my face as you did..
why do you need a new bellhousing? is it because the opening for the transmission is a different size?
So the T5 is the correct depth and so it bolts up correctly.
What was the wine ..? Wasn’t a super charger … the diff ..? Nice job 👍
I had to replace the Intermediate Shaft during the trans rebuild, new gears and old gears are trying to find their happy place.
Do you remember the part number and where you bought the clutch lever(fork) and the throw out bearing?
I ordered the Clutch Fork from Summit Racing, part no PIO-CF-119. The throwout bearing came with the Clutch, which I ordered from Modern Driveline, part no MD-07-14C. Heads up, that Clutch is a 10 inch size, with a 10 spline, and designed to worth with Cable or Hydraulic Clutches, not the OEM style Z-Bar mechanism. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel and if it's not a bother, what bell housing did you get and where did you get it from?
@@taylornelson8189 No problem at all, I ordered it from Modern Driveline, part no MD-401-1101. It's designed to fit the 6 bolt 289/302 Ford motors, and the T5s from 79-93. T5s from '94-'04 need a slightly deeper Bellhousing as the input shaft is about 7/8" longer. But MDL has all the parts you need. :)
Hello there , i have a question, i have H O 302 with C4 , can i do this swap and convert it to manual on mine ?
Yes, most of what I did in this video should work on your car. However, depending on your year and model, the C4 driveline may or may not work, you'll want to check into that. :)
Hi, i love the videos you do! I have a 65 coupe and have the same trans crossmember you first tried to use. You got it to line up. I can’t. It’s off by half an inch. Any thoughts ?
First thought is which year T5 do you have? Only because in my last Mustang I purchased a 94-04 T5 and the crossmember mount for that trans is about 1/2" or so farther back than the mount on the 83-93 T5 units. On my current car, I made sure to get the correct T5.
If you have the correct year Trans, you might check the rubber trans mount that is bolted to the bottom of your T5. If you bolt that rubber mount in place and tighten it down before you test fit the Crossmember, it might need to be adjusted. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel i have the 80s T5. The tubular crossmember was from the AOD i had before in the 65 mustang. Looks identical to yours and what some manufacturers sell. If you look at the MDL one, the area for the bolts have more of an adjustment than the tubular ones that are more offset. I can get it to work, but it’ll need some drilling.
@@raptorjesus99 Sounds like making those slots longer may work for you. Normally I'd say just get the correct crossmember mount, but everything is expensive these days so modifying what you have might be the best route. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel thank you! Is TH-cam the platform you are most active? I literally had your video playing with me under the car.
Yes. Sometimes I post on other sites, but it's usually somehow linked to my TH-cam videos. :)
Question what year pressure plate did you use. Diaphragm is the only way to go.
Brand new pressure plate.
Where did you find the bolts for the bell housing? I have been all over my town and no one has them.
You may need to check out NPD, CJ Pony, and maybe Modern Driveline. Unfortunately those kinds of bolts are not something most places will stock locally. You can also try McMasterCarr, they usually ship pretty fast. :)
Do you recommend a supplier for the T5 and the related parts? I have a 66 coupe 289 three speed I want to upgrade.
If I was buying new, I would only spend my money at Modern Driveline (MDL). Not only do they have the transmission you want and all the associated parts to make the swap, but they're super great to work with. If you're on a tight budget, try to find your T5 on Craigslist or Marketplace, shop around a little for some of the more basic parts, but still get some of the important stuff from MDL (like the bellhousing, flywheel, and crossmember). :)
@@AndyKruseChannel thanks Andy.
Changing from a C4, what clutch pedal did you install.
I added the pedal that MDL sells, and installed it with a roller bearing kit. Super easy to do and I'd do it all the same again if I had to. I made a video about it, it came out right before this video. :)
I know it’s been a few months now, but do you remember about how long it took you to do all the work?
I don't, but it's tough to gauge the time as I have to deal with the lighting, camera placement, knowing what to say, and stuff like that while I make the video, so it'll naturally take me longer. However, if a guy had all the tools and parts ready to go, maybe a friend to help, this could be done in a day. The parts that can delay this swap are stuck bolts and dealing with the exhaust if the system is not already modular or able to be taken apart and put back together. This particular swap took about a week because of the problem I had with the transmission crossmember (and I work a regular job too, so my time is limited). But if I wasn't so cheap, I would have purchased the better crossmember to begin with and I would not have had an issue. :)
Installed mine over year ago, using MDL, i cant get clutch to realease, i notice yoiu Did Not do a run out on your bell housing, i didnt either, i had 0 help and was my first time installing a clutch, my question is? would me not doing this run out cause the clutch not to release, its c4 to t5 conversion from mdl amd the runout was never mention, Please Please help me, could be air? pedal adjustment? I have no help and hate to take it back out, but if you tell me its the problem i will, thanks a lot!!!1 Great Vuideo by the way
If there was a runout issue with your setup, it manifest as increased wear on the input shaft bearing, which means you'll need to service that location before someone that was within runout specs. The clutch sticking is not related to any runout issues.
You don't mention the clutch actuation style (Z-bar vs Cable vs Hydraulic), so it's difficult to diagnose without that info. Also, you say you can't get the clutch to release. Do you mean getting the clutch to release from the flywheel, or when you take your foot off the clutch pedal you can't get it out of neutral and into gear?
Hydralic clutch from mdl, when i pit into gear and i press the clutch the wheels are still lock cause in gear, i can put in neutral and wheels turn@@AndyKruseChannel
i have it on a small lift and i crank it put in gear and wheels turn but when i press in clutch wheels still turn@@AndyKruseChannel
@@rickycarroll1990 My guess is that the system needs to be bled again. I spent a long time bleeding the hydraulic clutch, and I went through a lot of fluid making sure I did it correctly. In the end I probably spent longer than needed, but everything works great, just gotta follow those instructions to a "T"! :)
@@AndyKruseChannel ok I bet you are right, I will be on it tomorrow and I appreciate you so much, ease my mind, I will let u know how it goes, have a great day, And thanks again
You still have that first cross member bracket? How much you want for it?
Sorry Boss, I don’t.
hi Andy I am installing my t5 on my 351c but the t5 is sitting more to the driver side this is normal?
I don't know how the T5 would fit in your application, but it shouldn't be too far off from how it bolts up and fits with the 289/302 blocks. Is it possible that the engine mounts are either worn out or need to be adjusted? That may play a role in how the T5 fits in the tunnel. Also, in my build, the T5 isn't exactly centered in the tunnel, and this is ok, the crossmember bolts to the transmission and makes everything line up. :)
Any tips on attaching that cable to the bracket? It’s next to impossible.
I threaded it to the clevis, then attached the clevis to the end of the linkage bar that bolts to the side of the clutch pedal.
@@AndyKruseChannel but how did you get it attached to the linkage bar? Did you do it before attaching the cable to the firewall through the hole you drilled? Cause I am at my wits end with it. Can’t see what I’m doing up there and not much hand room.
Attach the clevis to the cable before feeding it through the firewall. Then, under the dash, attach the clevis to the clutch bracket with the supplied pin and cotter pin. Then bolt the linkage to the clutch pedal.
What did you do with the coolant lines and where did you get the clutch pedal from
I ruined the coolant lines taking them off, but that's ok because they're not need and can be disconnected from the bottom of the radiator. No caps are need, the section is separate from the rest of the radiator.
The clutch pedal was purchased from MDL, part number MD-402-6566M-C, I paid about $190 for it. A used one off eBay should be just as good and way cheaper if you're on a budget.
Hi Andy...thanks for your answers. I'm in the UK 🇬🇧 and I've got a 1963 rancharo..I'm in two minds whether to go AOD or T5. Its got a 3 speed automatic. The RPM on the motorway ( freeway lol ) is frightening
@@allangreen2275 I don't know if you'll run into fitment issues with the AOD in your ranchero, but at that same point, I don't know how the T5 would fit either. Having that overdrive gear in the AOD or T5 will be fantastic if you're RPMs are high on the freeway like you mentioned. It will likely take fewer parts to put that AOD in your car, specifically with the clutch pedal and clutch actuations system (z-bar vs cable vs hydraulic). :)
Did you use tailshaft off the 86 T5 as well.
Yes, it fit perfectly in the car, no issues with installation or alignment of any kind. :)
Did you replace the speedo cable or just the gear.
Just the gear. The speedo cable in these cars will plug right into several transmissions out there, which is another reason this swap is so easy. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel
Perfect. I’m doing my swap this week.
Well I'm in the final steps of this process and my driveshaft will not work, it's about 1 1/2" too long. Not sure if it's a difference in the trans or not, I got the entire kit from Modern Driveline including the trans, so be aware of this.
I'd give them a call and see if either the wrong driveline was sent or if there's some other issue. All my experiences with MDL have been stellar! :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Yeah I'm not sure, I've double and tripled checked everything along the way. The yoke will slide it all the way but it's just not enough to get the u-joints in the rear end. Maybe there are slight differences in the tail shaft/housing? You also had to trim your tunnel opening to get the shifter through where mine fit in perfectly. I'll give them a call anyways though.
@@grant3049 That part about trimming the tunnel is interesting. I needed to cut around 1" to 1-1/2" of clearance to get the shifter assembly to slide up into the car. But my transmission crossmember fit fine. I think you're doing the right thing, give MDL a call and see what they say. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel And you had to trim the front part of the shifter opening correct? That's the 1"-1 1/2" I need for the driveshaft :)
I just got off the phone with them and they said typically the driveshaft needs to be trimmed about 3/4-1" going from the C4 to T5. He did say that it depends on if the driveshaft was at the right length to begin with.
What did you do for a neutral safety switch?
I did not hook it up. I pulled the rod out from the switch and taped up the wires. :)
what's that whine when you acclerate?
That's the sound of everyone that doesn't have a T5 in their Mustang! :)
@@AndyKruseChannel 😂 I agree
@@AndyKruseChannel hahahaha. Good one.
@@bofa83 It's the new intermediate shaft I had to replace in the trans before the install. New gear parts will always whine, until they get worn in a bit. :)