Premium vs Top Tier Diesel? Winter Blend? Key Diesel Truck Owner Info
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มี.ค. 2023
- If you are new or life-long diesel truck owner, this video is for you. Publisher Tim Esterdahl talks with Garth Redifer, Vice President of Sales for Power Service Products, Inc. to discuss the ins and outs of diesel engines, additives and the history of Top Tier Diesel as well as Premium Diesel.
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For the price of diesel we should never have to add additives .
It’s $3.75/gal here in NM. Unleaded gas is $2.90/gal.
Diesel is cheaper then regular in my part of Canada
$3.18 for Diesel here. $4.04 for regular unleaded here. Speaking in absolutes is never wise.
@@davidporter7051 regular gas for me is 1.71 and diesel is 1.56 a litre. Diesel usually is cheaper then gas.
I’m using hotshot everyday treatment. Supposed to raise cetane by up to 7 points and you only need 2 oz per 25 gallons. Rated #1 by many independent studies and one 16 oz bottle will treat 400 gallons. FYI
Tim - thank you SO much for doing this and making such an informative video!! You’re killing it with this recent content! Thumbs up! 👍🏼
I've worked at a tank terminal as a contractor. The fuel is piped to the terminal from their designated refinery. As the tankers are filled at the terminal, the terminal mixes in the additives into fuel as the truck is loaded. The terminal serves multiple brands of fuels (Shell/Standard/Casey's/Kum & Go/Sinclair/etc.) and the additive package is specific to each brand, if any is added at all - the base fuel is the same because that's what the refinery produces for the region based upon EPA and/or state agencies. This is the reason why fuel economy varies widely for the exact same vehicle as you travel across the country. Casey's doesn't care where they purchase fuel, they are looking for the cheapest price available from any refinery/terminal serving the region. Therefore, any Casey's store might have fuel in their storage tank from 3 or 4 different refinery/terminals in a region.
Makes sense!
👍🏼👍🏼 *Good to know thanks for sharing that* I put atleast 4oz in my diesel regardless, my father taught us oil is cheaper than metal
Keep up the good work Tim. I've had all the same questions and the answers typical come from your channel.
Thanks for doing this. I enjoy when you interview someone from the industry to explain turbochargers, engines,etc.
Great video Tim! Having diesel boat engines over the years, I've seen some nasty looking fuel at times. Excellent info. Those bad samples were frightening. And when your guest said that the bad sample "... was more often that not the finding" it was disheartening.
Might need to get a couple of Blackstone Labs diesel test kits and send a current untreated sample in to check, and then follow that up with a treated sample with additive (from the same fuel station) to see if it’s helped.
Hi Tim,
Octane is an alkane (a linear hydrocarbon) that is 8 carbon atoms long, C8H18.
Cetane is the same but for 16 carbon atoms.
These alkanes start with 1 carbon (methane), 2 (ethane), 3 (propane), 4 (butane) etc.
Kerosene is 12 by the way.
Notice that at the smaller end of the carbon chain these start as a gas, then they become a gas that is easier to liquify, then a liquid that is very volatile and then kerosene and then onto diesel at 16 which is a light oil.
Now octane and cetane are used as reference, as the benchmark for gasoline and diesel fuels respectively.
The actual fuels contain a mix of many compounds, 20-50 compounds in there. They are a distillation product of crude whose chemistry can vary a lot after all.
So a 90 Octane for example fuel is a fuel that behaves as a 90% mix of pure octane. It doesn’t mean it has that composition, rather that it behaves like that. Hence why you can have 102 and over racing fuels.
Same for Cetane.
A higher Cetane diesel will ignite quicker after it’s been injected in the cylinder. That’s a good thing. The quicker it ignites the more even the burn, lower peak pressure. In fact modern injectors as your guest mentioned have multiple injections per combustion event. Where in the past we would inject the whole fuel dose for one power stroke at once and have a single big bang, now we dose it in across many injections and we burn it more evenly. Smoother operation. A high Cetane diesel improves this as it ignites straight away. The delay in ignition of a poorer fuel allows the build up of the fuel, and then a bigger bang.
An injector with deposits on its tip fails to atomise and spread the fuel over the required volume and as a result a lot of fuel burns in a small area, the oxygen gets depleted, mixture becomes rich and we produce soot.
So Cetane boosters are really good stuff. And in the diesel world we want a fuel that will ignite as soon as possible on entry into the cylinder. In gas engines we want the fuel to resist self ignition (knocking) because there we control the timing of the ignition with the spark. Here we control it with the timing of the fuel injection.
In Sweden we have what is called E85, ie 85% ethanol and 15% petrol. It is said that this 101 octane in the winter and 104 octane in the summer. Note that Europe does not calculate octane in the same way
I love these deep dive interview videos, thank you Tim! 🫶🏻
About that "branded" Chevron fuel. At the refinery they will add 2.5 gal of additive to a tanker truck (maybe 5,000 gal). The next tanker fills up from the same supply and goes to all the other stations.
Really good information here in this video.
Very informative to the point I'll stay with a gasser. I was entertaining the idea of purchasing the 3.0 Duramax for the MPG. I'll stay with what I know.
Kinda thankful I’ve stuck with gas engines. Plenty of top tier stations and no need to find or pay for additives.
Great video Tim. I wish there were tighter regulations on keeping diesel tanks clean at fill up. Too bad there wasn't a database of stations that keep their tanks clean. This way consumers knew what they were getting at each pump. I'd be pretty upset if I was pumping something like the sample he showed, and it wrecked my truck.
I have a Tdi and it's fairly sensitive to running additives or not. It will make the motor start easier, run smoother, and be far more quiet. The cost of running diesels here in NH, no longer makes sense. Gas, is 3.19. diesel is 5.29 + def+additives. All for a less refined product...crazy.
5.29 still? its around 4.40 in southern MA
Yes, places right off hwy in Rochester. Highest prices around! Crazy.
It’s $3.75 here in NM.
@@NMTRUCKER I'd kill for 3.75...we get screwed up here.
@@treborheminway3814 NM is a fairly big fossil fuel producer and most of the state’s tax revenue comes from this industry. The residents get the benefit of “cheaper” fuel but we have to deal with huge swaths of land taken over by the oil/gas industry. In southeastern NM you can drive for 30 miles and see nothing but oil well pumps, storage tanks…
Hi Tim good video, being a retired truck driver I'm very familiar with Power Service Products, and they have very good products and I appreciate his good advise as well. I have to comment on diesel pickup trucks though, in my opinion if you're not hot-shotting, hauling heavy equipment or towing a large RV such as a full timer RV and maybe only tow 6-8,000lbs once in a while get a gas truck. Diesel engines love to run and short runs are hard on these trucks. I think most people who buy a diesel truck have no clue how high the maintenance cost is. This negates any fuel saving in my opinion.
I’m starting to realize this, also considering I may have to start using additives, starting to feel like it’s getting costly!
I have run supplements every fill up in my truck since it was new. I wish every manufacturer had a long neck bottle for the capless fuel system of the new trucks. I end up using a funnel which then sits in my truck. Otherwise I don’t have a problem with using supplements in my diesel truck.
I just watched this and found it very informative. I have a 22 Suburban with the Duramax and love driving it. I try to be careful about where I purchase diesel generally focusing on MFA and Costco (they have Top Tier Diesel at the location I generally shop at). MFA claims a typical Cetane of 49 and Exxon/Mobil states that their SYNERGY diesel has improved mileage. My only complaint about Power Service is that I live in Kansas and that is one of the grey states that doesn't have a distributor😐
The typical base fuel in Kansas is high cetane and very high wax content. Which why the high cetane, very low aromatics. MFA and power service is the same detergent molecule- ? Is ppm level. Synergy is detergent only and relatively low level of keep clean detergent. The PS distributor in KS is capital city oil.
After watching this extremely informative video I will stick with a gas engine . I was really considering going to the 3.0 Gm for the longevity and fuel efficiency but after watching this and the video about the oil pump belt I just can’t see the benefit . Looks like another 6.2 is the best option for my needs .
Garth, does diesel fuel supplement (white bottle) quality for the new weights & measures "Premium Diesel" spec as you mentioned? Also, are you guaranteeing a 50 cetane with your product?
I never heard in the discussion the AC Delco vs this additive. Being it’s not recommended, what does that do to the warranty?
In Europe the cetane value can be between 51 to 58 apart from HVO which is a fossil free diesel. It can have a cetane value of 70 or more
I never would have expected the VP of sales to endorse the use of additives and other products that umm, he sells... While he's knowledgeable on the subject, if additives don't sell, he doesn't get a paycheck.
This was an informative and educational. I will be searching Power Service’s home page to see if there are any fuel stations in the regions that I travel - Barring that, with declinning fuels prices and the narrowing of price differential between Diesel and Premium Gas (in my case as I compare Duramax 3.0L vs 6.2L gas for Torque), diesel has finally become more economical once again for my driving needs (mix of city, hwy, towing including taking into consideration DEF cost and higher oil change costs). However, if you now have to add $13-$18 per tank for additives, then financial incentives begin to disappear again. Add to that the need to buy “fresh”DEF, increased oil change costs, increased maitenance and repair costs, now the need to buy fuel additive due to lack of uniform Diesel quality standards at pumps…… it just beginning to sounds like courting a very high maintenance pain in the neck date. For me and probably many out there it sounds like a 6.2L (for GM) or similar engine with the same or better HP and Torque is is much simpler option when the financials are basically a wash. What am i missing?
Reliability, power and mpg are things to consider with regards to diesel vs gas. Pro con on all factors.
AFM/DFM and all the problems that come with these systems.
@@dalelong4716 You are right about that - that was the primary reason why I switched my order from 6.2L tahoe to 3.0L….off course, none of it matters given that I placed my order with dealer and I was #155 in line back in October and now I am #8 (have been for a month) and cant even get GM to pick up my diesel order - and when they do, who knows when they will deliver. Ordering a vehicle has become a year long ordeal…I might as well wait for the 2024 refresh now.
@@dalelong4716 I was considering trading my 2021 GMC 1500 Sierra diesel for the new 2023 GMC Canyon until I read GM is incorporating AFM/DFM on the 2.7. The 430 lbs of torque with the 2.7 is amazing considering my 3.0 diesel has 460 lbs of torque.
@@kaivonmortazavi8656 Six hours ago, I picked up my 23 High Country with the Duramax. Driving home I tried to adjust the tilt/telescopic steering wheel, the control fell into the steering column. Back to the dealer tomorrow........and so it begins!
Anybody know if Shell Diesel has cleaning additives? I have a local fuel stop good price. No top tier anywhere around. Interestingly Shell gasolines are top tier. But see nothing on their diesel.
PS I bought a 2023 HC 3.0 😀
Both my DD 6.2 and Mercedes OM617 5cyl diesels run on 75% filtered used motor oil mixed with 25% used ATF. Do I need $500 in fuel additives?? Should I burn dino or synth used oil??
My BS meter pinned watching this...
Sure wish Power service made individual doses. Most user have trucks that may be either 31gallons or 50 gallons. 31 gallons takes about 10 oz . When we use the larger bottle it hard to figure 10 oz and storing the left over is difficult, they leak. So maybe see it in 10 or 12 oz bottle doses
In Connecticut everybody gets gas from the same tanks! I don’t know about diesel buttt it’s most likely the same .
I'll echo what others have said, thank you for having Garth on. So much mis-information floating around and so hard to tell what is accurate. I have a 6.7L Cummins, a Gen 3 ECODiesel, and several diesel powered land management machines. I run both on road and off road diesel. I've been using Power Service since I got my 2015 Cummins and treat my off-road diesel. So far, after many years and many winters, I've had zero issues.
So do they have an anti gel for the diesel dif fluid?
Great Video Tim, Have you starting using an additive? If so what are you using. New 3.0 nervous Tahoe owner.
U can use ac Delco conditioning , I don’t used … I have the 3.0 also
It's the same gas, just a different additive. Indy refineries sell branded gas. It's literally just the additives. And it's also very small amounts. A small injection per 100 gallons.
How does the water get into diesel fuel? Is diesel fuel hygroscopic like brake fluid?
Hey Tim. I have a 2021 GMC Denali with the 3.0 LM2 diesel in it. For the first year of it I was getting 37.5mpg highway and about 28-30mpg in the city. Now for the last 4-5 weeks I’ve only been averaging 21-23mpg for both highway and city driving. I took it to the dealership and they don’t know what’s going on. Then they showed me paperwork showing it’s only supposed to get 23mpg city and 26mpg highway where I’m not even getting what it shows. That’s a 14mpg drop. Some vehicles only get 14mpg. Any ideas? It has 10700 miles on it. My recent oil change was $105 and to top off my Def when it was only half full ran me and additional $52. I’ve also experienced the long crank/no start 7x in 13 months. Dealership doesn’t know why. My research was saying it could be a bent cam shaft?
Since using Lucas oil in my tank of gas, it has increased my miles per gallon so now I’m getting 720 miles a tank full.
Have you changed your fuel filter?
Never, and I mean NEVER let the dealership top off your DEF. That is the biggest rip off on the face of the planet considering how simple it is to do at any truck stop with bulk DEF.
I been using Archoil for years love it trucks regen less
So are you saying if I fill up at one of these stations with the extreme diesel logo I do not need to add any additives ? If I do is there such a thing as to much additives?
If you can find a station with Top Tier diesel, it has an additive in the fuel already. I would think using a lot of additives is probably a bad thing. That’s just IMO.
After days of researching I cannot figure out what to use. Seems diesel Kleen does not emulsify or demulsify but hot shots EDT does demulsify. I hear good and bad things about that. Ac delco conditioner is crazy priced comparatively but I don’t want to jeopardize my warranty or cause any issues. What did you decide to go with? Please help. Standing in a parts store for an hour now and still can’t make up my mind.
I have a 21 ATF with an LM2
I'm getting ready to order a new GMC with a diesel, so its good to add an additive every time you fuel to keep it running at its best?
You can for sure. Lots of opinions online about it.
My 2001dodge 5.9 2500 is a little picky not to bad
So why don’t we heat the diesel fuel lines from the tank to the filter?
Simple, are we good to put this in the 3.0L?!?!?!? I haven’t put any additives in my 2021 and I have over 56’000 KM’s! I’m thinking it’s not too late!
I use BIOBOR MD in my diesel.
So what adative are you using. I just bought the same truck you have and didn't even consider top-tier a thing.
Not using any additive.
I’ve owned two Chev diesel duramaxs . A short bed and long bed . I switch up to a long bed to fit quads better . But I always used a diesel additive always since owning both trucks . I was recommended a product by the dealership. Never had problems. A 3000 Miles isn’t too late to start . Add the additive . It’s never too late . Why wouldn’t you take care of your investment. That’s the way I look at it . Bottom line . Take care of your property/ truck !
So, you never said what your dealer recommended. Care to tell us what it was?
While I appreciate the interview, I’m a bit skeptical-you’re interviewing someone who’s selling diesel additives and asking him if consumers need to buy them. Of course his answer is going to be yes, not only that, he’s going to try to scare everyone into using them. I’ll stick with my local Costco Top Tier.
Hmm talked me out of buying a modern diesel truck.
This video sure makes me less likely to buy a diesel. Very discouraging that these engines are so expensive to operate.
top tier at costco,cheeper than gas stations
Just add a gallon of kerosene to thin out the winter diesel to a tank full thins it out hotter fire under comp
Lots of useful info here...BUT, I have to wonder 'is this a sponsored product' that you got paid to cover?
I haven't bought any of the product nor do I have a code for you to save 10% or anything. I just wanted to get some answers, so I interviewed him.
I think I'm sticking with my gas truck.
Price of diesel has nothing to do with it
Do we have any idea on who makes a good quality diesel fuel from the big manufacturers? I just bought a Silverado with the 3.0 engine and want to do what’s best for it. I know many buy in bulk, but if some of them actually produce their own, maybe we can be more confident in its quality and additives? Any thoughts?
Top tier gas came out here long before diesel. Your just looking to far into it! Pretreated does not mean much here just treat your own for your application.
Manual says only AC Delco. Why is that?
GM owns AC Delco.
@@Pickuptrucktalk ah, well how convenient lol .. which brand have you been using in your 3.0?
@@hdvidclips I’m not using any additive.
Mpg with the diesel is great. But when I consider cost of diesel compared to gasoline I'm not going to save any money with a diesel. Add $18 additive per tank. Ouch.
GM seems to be having problems with gas and the 3.0 diesel. No wonder guys are having problems with their diesels after listening to this. Would be curious to know percent of customers having problems. A neighbor had lifter issues on his 3 month old Yukon.
Run the red diesel and call it a day. 😂😂😂
You can pay me now or you can pay me later. For the everyday consumer, diesel is becoming too much of a risk.
Winter diesel is mostly kerosene
How do you know this?
Hey Tim, the next time you talk to your GM rep who was the leader on the engine design, can you please ask him if they have a recommendation on which oil company to use for diesel? Manufacturers typically work with the oil companies when designing new engines to make sure the parameters are met, ( I know it also depends on the station and tank maintenance). The prices here are all over the place. I’m afraid to use the cheapest price in case it’s crap but hate to pay top dollar if it’s the same as the other places. I know years ago, BMW used to endorse Shell for its detergents and alcohol content for the issues they had it’s valve deposits. I did some checking into the company in this video and they don’t seem to have the end all on diesel additives either. So before I look into additives more, I’d really like to start with top end diesel fuel. I know the guy here seems to think it’s all the same, but I gotta think some of the big oil companies might do their own and have a better handle on the quality and additives . Tks and love the channel. Your part of the reason I bought the Silverado with the 3.0 baby max.
They recommend Top Tier diesel which is nearly impossible to find. Top Tier gas, but not diesel. That’s all I can get out of GM.
@@Pickuptrucktalk ok Tks.