BAD 2020 Silverado 3.0 Duramax LM2 Engine Teardown INCREDIBLE DAMAGE!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2023
- Another weekly dose of your catastrophic engine forensics! Every week you can find a new teardown of some abused, misused and/or poorly designed engine. I've got over 150 videos of failed engine teardowns on this channel.
Today's teardown is an engine that I never thought I'd be able to get for the channel but thanks to my inability to sleep here it is! This is the LM2, a 3.0L Duramax from a 2020 Silverado 1500. Its a turbodiesel inline 6 that makes 277hp and 460 ftlbs of torque. This is known as one of the baby Duramax and there are other displacements available in vehicles like the Colorado and canyon. This engine is offered in all 2020-2022 1/2 ton GM full size trucks and SUV's including the Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, Suburban. This particular engine suffered some pretty extensive damage, enough to warranty complete engine replacement which was NOT cheap.
My name is Eric and I own and run a full service auto salvage business called Importapart, located in the Saint Louis area. Part of our model includes dismantling blown up and core engines to salvage and resell the good, usable parts from them. We do not rebuild engines, merely supply parts to those that do!
If you'd like to buy parts from this engine or anything else I've torn down you can email us at Importapartsales@gmail.com or go to www.Importapart.com and peruse our latest inventory.
I really hope you enjoyed this video, as always I love all of the comments, feedback and even the criticism.
Catch you on the next one!
-Eric - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
New rule for Engineers: you must work on all engine designs for 1 year before placement in a vehicle.
Melt it down and build a om 617 mercedes Benz diesel 900000 miles and still running ronrdzl
You don’t think engines are tested for at least a year before being put in a vehicle lmao? Most engines go through 5+ year development cycles
Execs and designers say "this is the car. This is what has to go in it. Make it fit, make it work, make it look integrated, and make it simple enough a wild baboon can operate it. You have 6 weeks" oh and "do it as cheaply as possible "
Engineers should be forced to repair common things on a complete vehicle before production. They’ll quit their jobs.
It should be in a vehicle so they know are pain
I don't know why so few manufactures can figure out timing chains anymore.
It's all about the $ and they have it figured just the way they want it.
@@greggc8088 I think Ill stay happy with my old belt drive cam Toyota 2uz, a belt that reliably does 125k miles and take 2 hours to change!
Accountants are the problem.
@@Thecarguy1254 A (dry) timing belt thats easy to change is the best solution!
I don't know why even fewer figure out timing gears.
In order to reduce the cost of the engine by maybe $50, GM decides to use a belt for the oil pump that requires a $2k service to replace at 150k miles. If the belt breaks, it's $8k engine replacement. So they not only save money up front, but make more money on servicing the vehicle as well. In business, that's what we call a win-win.
If you can't afford a 2k service every 150k you're too poor to own one of these anyways lmao, 70k+ vehicles and you're whining about a 2k service
Yep! A win win is only a win for the person expressing it😅😅
@@jellyfrosh9102only a smooth brain like you would brag about overpaying for a shit service on a shit vehicle because of shit engineering 🤡
Well that and they didnt want to do major modifications to the engine bc its an overseas design. Its used in europe for cab overs.
Modern diesels are expensive AF upfront and over their useful service life. Unless someone is extensively towing, the fuel economy alone doesn't make up for it; TCO is higher. At least the HD pickup diesels do better in this aspect. Even the VM Motori's (Fiat owned) have been around since like '13 in the Ram and I wouldn't get an EcoDiesel. Ford abandoned this space altogether in half-tons, so that's pretty telling.
The fact that it ran with no rod bearing on that one journal, the general lack of damage to the crank is impressive. That is a tough crank.
I drove a 1976 Oldsmobile with a 350 Rocket in it for over a week with no bearing left on several rods.
I beat the SHIT out of that car forever, and it finally spun a rod bearing at 176,000 miles.
It started with a slight knock, and the engine would seize up when it was driven long enough and it got hot. Let it cool down for a few hours, and it would fire up again.
I drive it to work 2 miles away for a week like this. The knock got louder, and louder, and pretty soon it actually hurt your ears.
What finally killed it was when a few of the rod bearings were completely gone, and the big end of the rod started to wear big enough, the rod actually contacted the oil pan and the bolts scraped a gouge through the pan, and all the oil drained out. It tossed 6 of the rods very shortly after it lost all of it's oil.
What a broke ass teenager will do...
That engine was a TOUGH mo'fo though. 😂
@@davelowetsNow that engine literally tossed its cookies 🍪 😋 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@carlbernard4197 It SURE did...
Went for quite a bit longer than I thought it would have with spun bearings. I was bummed when I pulled the engine down to remove the camshaft, (I had earlier installed a decent sized Comp cam, and wanted it back) and when the rods broke they took some large chunks out of the cam lobes. 😟
🍻
Tough crank but too bad everything else is designed to fail at 150k.
@@jalee6587 I totally agree
I work at a GM dealership and I HATE working on any vehicle with these, once it's fully dressed there's so much stuff crammed in the engine bay. You have to pull the cab to do major work on them, absolute nightmare otherwise
Is it worse or better in the SUVs vs the trucks? Guessing you don’t pull the cab on a suv where a truck you do.
@@doctube2020you’re guessing which makes an ass out of me and you.
@@doctube2020 You still can
I'd assume almost everything is major work on them.
@@doctube2020you pull the whole body on a suv
The sound it must had made when it jumped time and the valves smacking those pistons must have been glorious 😲
I bet it couldn't be heard over the rod knock.
You usually don't hear it when it happens.... It just quietly quits running.
I would imagine it sounded like a diesel rattling apart. Soooo it probably sounded no different 😀
Yep it made that Chevy sound like a 80’s ford diesel 😂
That's funny.i don't care who you are 😊
Every time the water pump goes flying, I remember being stranded with a broken water pump on Sunday evening in a small town with very little money left and a car full of passengers. And a scrap yard which did have the needed water pump, in a bad condition, but still working...
The tensioners being powered by oil pressure but needed from the instant the engine starts turning really seems like an insane design choice and makes timing failure all but inevitable in my mind.
yes its a bad idea
I was going to add: if it requires the oil pressure operated tensioner system to hold chain slack from allowing piston/valve contact how does it escape valve interference during cranking/startup ?
An oil pressure tensioner is like a one-way valve... it let's oil in under pressure, but not back out.
As the oil pressure pushes the rod out of the tensioner, up against the chain guide to keep the chain tight, the oil gets trapped in there and the rod can NOT go backwards back into the tensioner, even when the engine is shut off and the oil pressure is gone.
If your tensioner rod is able to be easily pressed back into the case, it's shot.
@@davelowets how well is this going to work if you have a LPOP fail for any reason? now you'll have to check time any time the LPOP goes out to make sure its still good... this was DUMB DUMB DUMB...
@@narmale exactly. I imagine Isuzu is going to have to rethink because most owners are bad about doing regular oil changes.
I’m glad those pistons were able to get some relief
I see what you did there
Damn it man. You just had to didn't you
The wet oil pump belt has a 150k mi interval on the LM2, but its second gen version the LZ0 has the interval bumped to 200k mi. Same p/n belt too. As for it not running, that component on the high pressure pump is the pressure regulator. When the pump (or regulator) is replaced, there is a procedure with GDS2 called a High Pressure Fuel Variable Reset that must be performed. If not done, the ECM can trip all sorts of DTCs, which would explain why when he put the old regulator on the new pump the truck fired up as it knew the values from the old regulator. I'm thinking oil consumption which theory is attributed to the aluminum pistons. LZ0 now has steel pistons.
Awesome info!
So it would seem that they should get an oil pump belt when the transmission is removed for repair. It will be interesting to see how many miles they get before breaking as we know customers are going to push the ragged edge.
Steep pistons? That would be a world first
Every modern engines out there has aluminum pistons
@@Prestiged_peck 6.7 Powerstroke has had them since '20, and all Big Rig Motors have run them essentially forever.
Thank you 🫡
If the pistons weren't forged before....they are now! Great job Eric.😊
The newest model engine is forged now. Which actually gave the engine more horsepower and torque because the heads are now smaller, which makes the rod longer.
Those aluminum pistons are forged. Just extra forged now lol
@adamprater6216 sorry the new ones are made of steel now. I think they were afraid of diesel "knock" which is why it was aluminum.
All duramax pistons are forged
😂😂😂
If you noticed the #2 cylinder when you removed the piston had a broken compression ring, it probably lost its oil thru that cylinder out the exhaust, "the def fluid filter system would have caught most of the smoke" then when the oil was depleted it lost pressure and jumped time, the rest was a downward spiral from no oil pressure. Great video!
Did not notice I have a truck with this engine and I’m largest concern was the reliability and it seems good but I’m going to look out for that failure as well as going back to look at the video and see if I can see the breakage.
@@daltonnewbold587423s and on have a bunch of updates since 20. Pistons, turbo etc
@@daltonnewbold5874same here, I have 2021 with 3.0 and it’s been great engine, so far. I will be monitoring all posts to see if there’s anything lurking in the engines future. Tear down shows how impressively tight the engine is built. Did you notice the metal oil pan? looking at you Ford!
@@joedfaziothat pan was literal tin metal, could poke a hole in it with a flathead screwdriver. Warped beyond reusability just by force of separating it from the silicon holding it to the upper pan. How is that any better than plastic?
@@dixiemudtoybecause the drain plug still has threads instead of some twist lock oring crap
As a BMW tech who's has the unfortunate displeasure of doing many timing chains on the newest BMW inline 6 diesel the N57, it is unbelievable how architecturally similar these two engines are. Wouldn't be surprised if the cam followers swapped directly over
Is there a common cause for these N57 timing chain failures? My 2014 535d with the N57 has 125k miles and I change the oil every 5,000 miles. Problem free so far, and hoping I don't have to worry about this grenading my engine any time soon.
Not a tech but someone who owns a diesel bmw. I saw this video and thought the EXACT SAME THING. They look very similar!
@@jmaner89seems like it really depends on itself. I’ve heard of them going out at 60k to them never going out. Just stay consistent on oil changes and don’t drive like an a hole 24/7. Take care of it and it’ll take care of you.
you're always going to have to be worried - its bad design. Use good oil, and delete it ASAP. TBH with this engine, the chains are the least of your worries @@jmaner89
It's an Opel design. The engineering teams must talk
All that piston damage and the roller rockers still looked good. Wow
Don't tell GM or they will start using weaker and cheaper rockers.
Seriously that was wild
I have watched a lot of these tear downs. what is most astounding is the amount of money poured into the engineering, design, the making of tooling. mold making for the aluminum parts , the dies for metal stamping, tubing bending, all for a engine that won't be around in 10 years. oh and the BELT for the oil pump!!. I like my 20 year old 6.0L and my 60 year old dauntless v6.. great show thanks!!
Keep in mind that after 146,000 miles on that engine, the oil pump belt was in good shape!
Oh the 6.blow with its clogging oil cooler? Yeah you have no room to talk about the 3.0 Duramax. Until you own one keep your ignorance to yourself.
This engine will be around in 10 years. They put it in tons of small box trucks in Europe (Opal branded) and GM is expanding what they put it in here. The new LMZ version has forged pistons and crank with over 300HP. I remember the 6.6 Duramax had horrible overheating issues initially and they figured that out and it is still around. With EPA mileage requirements this engine will undoubtedly be around a long time. The oil pump belt is a 200K interval maintenance now on the LMZ, with the money someone saves on fuel at 25 MPG it is a non factor.
@@alfredocarpaneto5976if you didn't hear, Holden also sold the same diesel engines before they went bankrupt. All of these small GM diesels have a lot of issues, especially the diesel astra / cruise / Captiva.
Enjoyed the video ! Thank you for taking the time to do a full teardown like this!
It boggles the mind - timing chains, but an oil pump *belt* on the back side of the engine, requiring removing the transmission to access for inspection/replacement. An oil submersed rubber-based friggin belt amongst other chains. Tell me engineers don’t hate technicians and customers; or maybe it’s the accountants who do.
Impressive valve imprints on the piston tops 😮
The engine was made for the European market cab over engine trucks……..
This is always a highlight of a Saturday evening
Love this channel! Thank you for recording and posting your adventures. Your content should be required viewing for all powertrain “engineers” around the world. SERIOUSLY! I couldn’t believe the condition of the pistons when you removed the head.
fun video....just mesmerizing seeing you tear these engines down. I am amazed at how engines have "progressed" over time -- they are sure not easily worked on like the earlier day engines that can be torn down and rebuilt in a short amount of time. Thanks for these videos!
Keep in mind, "Duramax" is a brand name and nothing more. The 3.0 was co-developed by GM and Opel. Opel runs smaller variants in the EU.
I have a trouble-free 2020 LM2. It pulls well and has great fuel economy. I get the oil changed every 5k. I change fuel filter every 10k. I run HotShots EDT in the winter. I towed my uncle's 68 Cutlass to TN about 700 miles when it was over 100F outside. Towed a friend's loaded cargo trailer ~1500 miles to UT across i70 through the Rockies when it was just above freezing. It consumed a very minimal amount of oil on both trips. Maybe 1/8 quart. Barely down from full. The problem isn't the belt driven oil pump. It's owners thinking getting the oil changed when the OLM on the dash says 0% is fine. I'm more concerned about emissions components, high pressure fuel pump, glow plugs, injectors, contaminated DEF... all of the modern diesel issues.
I have a 2021 Opel Insignia. Not knowing if the Diesel inside is related to the 3.0 in this video but I confirm that this POS drinks ALL the oil it can get. Already destroyed the first turbo. Thank god it's a company car.
Love my lm2.
@@andrep7757not related at all.
As a GM tech this is the first failure I've seen that wasn't caused by customer ignorance... Yet it might very well be the case here too
I love my 2021 LM2. Oil and filter change every 5k. Zero oil comsumption and smooth as a baby's butt.
The state of modern diesels is sad, didn’t make 150,000 miles. Friend had a International truck with Detroit 6v71,went 385,000 before it had an in frame overhaul then went another 150,000 before he sold it.
The common high mileage number I'm seeing in TH-cam videos for engines designed in the last 10+ years seems to be ~150k miles. For european manufacturers, it seems much less. Apparently, according to them, cars shouldn't last more than 10-12 years.
This engine died from lack of oil.
@@steinwaymodelbPoor maintenance I’d bet. Most people nowadays treat cars like a phone.
When I sold my truck it had 1,128,000 miles on it C15 Acert 2006 model, KW, W900 still original
Almost every european diesel engine last well over 300k miles if oil services are done. Many will last to 600k miles.
I have Opel with 1.7L commonrail diesel, it has over 320k. No issues, runs like new.
6V71 should last near 700k without overhaul, compared to European truck engines...
Eric, you're at 272,000+ subscribers. I remember, it wasn't that long ago that you got to 200,000 and you were saying on the podcast at the time that you never thought you'd get to that plateau. Not only that, but you've had 357,000 views in 12 days. So, double congrats on getting this many of us to subscribe and view this vid. You have put together a tremendous format and we enjoy every episode. One thing they all show, is that engines do much better when they get regular oil changes and other maintenance, as if we need this advice. We look into engines every week on your show, and they're showing us what happens.
Been watching for awhile. I love the weekly schedule with some occasional midweek content. I'm still waiting for a Volvo inline 5 teardown...please.
Those head bolts made the best sounds ever!!
Yeah, I'll bet the torque/rotation specs are off the charts.
Would love to know the torque spec
@@user-wr1bd1mv4qtil it snaps, back a quarter turn
@@user-wr1bd1mv4qit’s quite the sequence but basically it’s:
30 ft-lbs
Loosen
30 ft-lbs
59 ft-lbs
225°
Best parts on the entire engine. As long as they are, G.M. probably recommends replacement, not reuse if the head ever needs to come off due to possible stretching issues. Probably cost around 50-75 bucks each. The engine is a joke.
Excited to see the baby DURAMAX!
Thank you, Matt for the kind words. Love your channel and look forward to seeing it grow. The motor went to a great home. CMW
Thank you! Your videos are very entertaining and I've learned a lot!
This brings a new term to "forged piston".
RE-forged. They're betterer now!
Yup ! 😂
I was fully expecting the “valve reliefs” to have been a result of the rod bearings disappearing. The clearance between the head and the piston on diesels is typically the thickness of the head gasket (sometimes not even that much) so rod bearing failure almost always causes the pistons to hit the heads on diesels (and some gas engines). But, doesn’t look like the case on this one since it was only the 1 bearing that disappeared.
If I owned one of these, I would not be happy. The timing drive on the rear of the engine is dumb enough as it is, but putting a belt drive back there is literally designing the engine to fail, but in an especially evil way: one that can be blamed on the customer. Nobody is going to pay $3000 to pull the engine/transmission and replace a belt, so instead, they’ll drive it until it breaks, loses oil pressure and destroys the engine. GM will say “well, we told you to replace the belt” and avoid any blame for their idiotic engineering.
Agreed. As an owner of this engine, very frustrating. Making me considering jumping to an HD and going cummins 6.7. Although, I will say, this engine is an absolute PLEASURE in my Sierra 1500 half ton.
Yes. There is NO reason that there can't be a chain back there instead of a belt. 🤷
A rubber belt INSIDE of an engine is simply dumb fuckery at it's finest. A belt IS a consumable item, and should NOT be in there. 🤦
I would have used a chain personally, but it’s a freaking 200k interval. Most people spend far more than $3k on everything else. If you can’t allocate that every 200k miles, you shouldn’t be buying a truck. And it should be factored into the value of trucks selling with 140k+ miles
@@BabyGatorsI agree with you. If I still love the truck, I won't have a problem spending 3-4k at my local shop to get me at least another 150k.
Wet belt design sucks, but the pros I've experienced with this truck so far outweigh the wet belt con.
Agreed. Pickup Truck Plus SUV Talk has the co-creator of the engine talk specifically about the belt and why they chose it and then said the exact same thing you did.@@BabyGators
That's crazy how you were correct 💯% and I have not in 40 years seen something like that on everyone and the depth of the homemade reliefs are mind blowing.😮
This is why this channel is very important to me regardless if the fault was the owner or the design of the engine failure. To me this is another example not to buy a vehicle with this engine and a applaud you for this channel to let the public know what vehicles or trucks to avoid buying I personally thank you sir for this channel. This is like the Ecoboost that was transverse mounted with the water pump buried under the timing chain cover which was a nightmare idea 💡. When a consumer is thinking about buying a truck or vehicle find out what engine that’s in it and find it here on video. Nick thank you sir and Greetings from Silverstreet South Carolina.
Something surprising I DIDN’T notice…. An oil level sensor. My Denali with the LM2 has 70k and it uses about 1.5 quarts of oil between oil changes. I’ve never let it get lower than a quart low but I always assumed it had a low engine oil indicator. Guess not!! I really like my Baby D-Max. Especially 30mpg combined city/hwy.
1.5 L between what interval? 5k? 10k? 15k? We have no idea
1.5 L is a lot. I have an N57 which burns about 0.25 L every 5k miles. And it does have a low oil level alert, not that I've ever seen it
and your payments? I OWN my truck and Ill take 11 mpg + no oil pump belt.
Until gas is $6 a gallon.
That Oldham coupler for the oil pump will likely last forever.
A filet knife will help with removal of flimsy oil pans without distorting them.
great video, been looking for one of these for a while. well done and thank you!
One of the things I see in common with the low mileage failures.. is a very complicated timing chain pattern, with a lot of tight corners requiring lots of tensioners...
Look at a Toyota 4 cyl. a simple V shape from crank to the cams... with very little deflection of the chain where it contacts the tensioner guides..
With this engine.. they should have done a gear drive, to all the components, or a straight shot for the timing parts.. from crank to cams.. and separate chains over to the injection pump and the oil pump... the Timing should be primary concern, if that fails the engine is DONE.. loose the inj pump... it could be repaired.
Using a belt for the oil pump.. and having all the timing on the back of the engine... was just absolutely stupid. Unless they went gear drive.. that should last forever.
The head design and top part look very well done.. easy to get everything off the engine.. the cam plate design INSIDE the vavale cover so as not to need sealant... the VERY impressive head bolts, the nice big needle bearings on the rollers.. all that looks REALLY nicely designed..
Leave it to GM to spend millions developing a new engine.. to then only use it for a short few years... and to handicap it with high maint costs and problems that could easily have been avoided. Especially on a diesel.. they are going to get lots of miles put on them.. that's why you buy one... such a shame..
GM should have copied Toyota and called it a day.
My thoughts EXACTLY.
Funny story about this engine. There was this guy on TH-cam that had one of the lead engineers that designed this engine on a livestream. He directly referenced the wet oil pump belt. He also referred to the "clean slate" GM gave them for this engine. People watching the video gave him down the road for it. Said TH-camr posted a follow up video shilling for the engineer saying the critics don't know anything, yada yada. Was quite an amusing situation altogether.
I watched that back then and yeah....knew it was a bad idea!
Nobody with a clean slate would put the timing chain at the rear and use a belt for the oil pump.
@@rmkilc th-cam.com/video/4KfvxxeGqwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-nAEtpkhryUOIXOm
The Honda 2000i and 2200i generators have these belts to drive their OHC...and carry oil up into the head.
One owner ran his 24/7 for 17,000 hours straight (off grid; only source of power).
See James Condon vid re tearing one down.
Then he ran the same engine with the replacement belt another 17k hours...
then sold it to his friend and it's still going...heading towards 35k hours....
As the GM tech said in another comment in these comments the same belt in the LZ0 engine is now rated at 200k miles before replacement....
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq you can try to justify GM’s stupidity all you want.
Honda small engines don’t impress me either. I’ve worked on a ton of Honda GC and GCV engines. Using a wet belt for the little plastic cam. It’s cost cutting. One instance doesn’t equate to it being an engineering marvel. A gear driven pump is less likely to fail over a belt driven pump in every circumstance.
Love how both rod bearings turned to liquid dust. The valve impacts were amazing. Great Saturday breakdown
Does the impact become less amazing because the pistons are a composite mix design? I just thought about that but don't know much about these things
@@adam9936 No, it's just amazing that the impact was able to instantly pound the rod bearings right out of the rod like that. No matter WHAT the pistons are made out of.
I've worked on MANY engines that have dropped a valve, or lost time, and had pistons and valves crash, BUT I've NEVER seen a rod bearing pounded out like that when it happened. 😳
As an owner of a 2020 Silverado with the baby durtymax, this is super informative. I currently have 60k on the clock. I check my oil level at every fill up, which is every 500 - 600 miles. With zero smoke or drips, it uses 1/2 quart on average. Fellow LM2 owners, check your oil often.
I would love one of those pistons.
My 2020 has 19,000 miles and has never used a drop of oil.. First oil change at 1000 miles then 5000 after.. I use the PPV oil filters on mine.. Next oil change will switch to Amsoil 0-20 Dexos D oil... Same prices as the GM oil.....
A quart every 500 miles??
I would be pissed, and NOT consider that normal...😤 😡
Thanks to all of the stupid emission systems they are going to use oil. Oh but they are better for the environment now so
It's really interesting the difference unit to unit. I have a 2021 LM2 with 28k on it, my oil consumption has been less than 1 quart between each oil change, 4 so far.
Switch to Mobil 1 ESP X2 and you wont burn so much oil. It’s also dexos d rated.
It's the rubber that deteriorates on belts. You've just got to pick the right rubber. Dry belts use EPDM rubber. Wet belts are likely HNBR. The wet belt benefits from less UV and ozone exposure.
You have likely noticed gaskets on newer non-German engines are often like new on high milage engines. It's all in the rubber specification. The same applies to hoses as well.
That upper oil pan loves to leak on these engines in the corner (this engine was a little wet there).There's a guy a few bays down from me who does those pretty frequently. It's a massive job to do in the truck as basically the entire front of the cab has to come off, the transmission, front diff, steering all has to come out in order to access. I really really don't understand the logic of the rear mounted timing system especially that oil pump belt... Engineered to fail since nobody is going to remember the service interval on that thing assuming it hasn't snapped before then.
Also I'm surprised the cam followers weren't obliterated from the valves being struck.
Jumping time due to a missing rod bearing is absolutely a thing, even without losing oil pressure. Take the bearing surface and shell out of the rod and you've increased the piston's TDC height by that much, and since it's loose and moving fast it increases TDC dwell by a GREAT amount. Since most cam timing has overlap periods the valves are still opening and closing at TDC between the exhaust and intake stroke, that piston gets flung up there into the still moving valves, which tries to close the exhaust faster and stop the intake from opening.
Meanwhile, the camshaft is still being driven... and whatever drives it just took one hell of a shock load. It can be enough to force a tensioner open if an engine has that system, or can simply load a belt or chain up enough to climb a tooth and hop over, if it doesn't just outright snap or bend the camshaft. I don't think you'd get so far as to crack a keyed pulley or break a cam nose or lobe though, it's all in the valvetrain geometry though. I bet you can find other motors that have shelled rod bearings with concurrent bent pushrods and rocker arms, if the valves are strong enough and angled little enough to avoid bending. Targets, hrmm.... gonna be a work engine of some sort. I'll digress from there.
Makes sense, decent take
My stance was that the loss of oil pressure both caused the rod bearing failure, and the loss of pressure on the chain tensioner. Other than the chains, tensioner, and oil pump belt being at the back of the engine where they are impossible to service, this teardown video has shown me this engine looks quite solid. Its much simpler than many other modern engines.
This channel, along with AVE, has become my go-to when sitting at my desk cleaning guns or rebuilding jet ski engines. Love the content, love the educational value.
Great job keep up the great work love your videos thank you
Really enjoy your videos and I especially like that "cracking" sound when you loosen tight bolts. Great job as always and keep your videos coming for your viewing audience.
The 3.0L Duramax uses really thin (0W-20) oil and is known for burning/using oil pretty quickly. The factory puts eight quarts of oil in the crankcase from the factory yet states that seven quarts are to be added when changing the oil and filter. I've had to add a quart of oil to my LZO after just a few thousand miles of driving. Pays to check the dipstick every so often.
Dry (first/rebuild) fill and change fill are different values for any machine.
Looking at the design of that lower oil pan the drain plug appears well above the bottom of the pan.
Filling with 8 quarts each oil change may not be a bad idea. Many owners have commented about how the LM2/LZ0 engines tend to be oil thirsty.
Big oof. I just put 5w30 in my 03 escape, calls for 5w20 and used that the last 120k miles. Burnt 2 quarts per 3k. On 5w30, hasn't burnt anything over 2500 miles. I would never run 0w20 in a diesel unless I lived in Antarctica. The mpg gain is not even there. 5w30 in my 2018 tundra and I still get the same mileage as I did on 0w20 when I tried it. Engine is MUCH happier, quieter and smoother.
Any freshly manufactured engine will burn oil and they are ALL over filled at the factory. A low mile/hour engine hasn't had time to break in and seal the rings.
Im glad i watched the teardown of this engine. It would've been nice to see you put it on tdc first to verify timing. This would've confirmed the the timing jump and shown which chain was off.
Buen contenido amigo,
gracias por mostrarlo detalladamente
Great video, really enjoyed it. Like seeing the diesel engines on your channel. Glad you were able to snag this one off marketplace.
You remember the rule of thumb. Diesels are always torqued down extremely tight because the compression would pop ordinarily torqued bolt.
The timing appears to be advanced a bit
It's the vibration from diesels that require the excessive torque on absolutely everything to keep from buzzing loose, not necessarily because of compression.
I'm not familiar with these, but that was my exact feeling also. Low pressure reduces the tensioner push. Maybe jumped teeth on the T belt?? Makes total sense on worn parts.
It's funny, everyone (me included) has a bad opinion of that oil pump belt, but I have never heard of one failing and the one he took out of that engine didn't look too concerning for 140K miles.... After this video I am more concerned about that 4 foot long upper timing chain and oil tensioners than I am about the belt... Great video, very interesting to see one of these taken apart.
Eric, thanks for another good video. That was a pretty big undertaking. I'm glad you point out the wear patterns in these engine takedown videos. You can't always catch seeing the metal on the videos.
So what do you salvage out of this engine to get your money back?
views
As a current 3.0 Duramax owner I hope not to experience this in person.
Frequent oil changes with quality oil. You’ll be fine.
Can’t believe those pistons didn’t crack from the new valve reliefs.
@@MendicantBias1Did one at 500 and at every 5000 now, with factory Dexos D. Cheap insurance.
That generation had a issue with oil consumption that was hopefully with the LZ0 model. The oil pump beltbus for drive ability and noise reduction.
Check your oil level
Then check it again and check it often
Don’t go by the oil life monitor, change the oil long before it says to.
Every time I heard that SNAP when you were breaking loose those head bolts, I imagined the head bolts were shearing off! That was brutal!
Very informative …and you make it fun. Thanks
fantastic video! checking oil is paramount. Thank you for this
We need a Fiat 1.4T multiair engine teardown for my interminable curiosity!
🤢
Put your money where your mouth is and SEND HIM ONE.
Same considering I had one about 5 years ago that blew up (at the dealershop no less LOL). Makes me hate that engine.
The multi air design is borderline genius...
Yep... Hydraulically controlled valves!
One thing I hate is they put the timing chain in the back. Literally have to remove the engine to replace it if it fails or needs work.
Engine stays in place. Just the transmission is dropped. Not a super simple task, but anyone with a medium mechanical ability can do it... and 22.5 and up (LZO) are 200k replacement on the belt. Lots of of gas vehicles require 60k-100k timing belt replacements that are similar repair costs.
not my 454 with a big fat chain up front. @@randycupp5925
@@randycupp5925hope the tranny isn't bolted to a transfercase what a stupid idea
im truly impressed the valves stayed together
another video showing not to buy a particular engine. Thanks for being the hero we need!
I’m a Millwright and work on heavy industrial machinery. Sorry I have more faith in belts over chains. We have some high quality Gates belts that endure unbelievable punishment. Chains wear and stretch, belt technology has come a long way.
146K? About time for that wet belt inspection for the oil pump. [shakes head at boneheaded engineering]
Just like ford does for the 2 7l and 1.0 ecoboosts. Literally 3 to 4 a week I replace or replace complete engines under warranty.
But it saved them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ /s
@@gregoryjohnson9733 If engines are being replaced under warranty, they probably did not save money. This looks like lack of checking oil or doing oil change at reasonable intervals. The recommended intervals, I think, are too long.
It is a stupid design, but, a wet belt at 147K miles that still looked good, not bad.
This plan would only work if people maintain their engines properly which they don't 😆
I personally would never buy an engine where the timing chain components are at the back where you have to remove the f****** transmission
So glad he's able to do this it's very relaxing and interesting to watch
It’s kind of like solving a mystery as he goes along. I kind of enjoy @chubbyemu in a similar way.
thanks for your great efforts on educating the public on the manufacturers planned obsolescence witch in Europe is in most parts and areas of manufacturer where we cant even rely on any of the once revered producers/companies products to the point of purchasing the least poor quality whilst realizing the modern truth that no vehicle electronic item even clothing and home furniture is now made to last but we the general public have little or no alternative
Once again we learn that checking your oil is important. Had the owner bothered to take a few minutes when they were buying fuel to pop the hood and pull a dipstick this engine would probably still be in service.
well said
Or if GM could make an engine that would not drink its own blood between oil changes……..
Actually, these engines are known for losing oil suddenly and spectacularly.
Having an lm2 for 2 years i didn’t see any oil consumption. I put 50k miles on, oil change interval was 7500 miles.
@@brandontierney9489I have 43K on my LM2 and lose zero oil in 6k Mile oil change intervals.
Finally a 3.0 Duramax. I LOVE my 3.0 so I am going to have to hope and pray mine doesn't do this..
The Honda 2000i and 2200i generators have these belts to drive their OHC...and carry oil up into the head.
One owner ran his 24/7 for 17,000 hours straight (off grid; only source of power).
See James Condon vid re tearing one down.
Then he ran the same engine with the replacement belt another 17k hours...
then sold it to his friend and it's still going...heading towards 35k hours....
As the GM tech said in another comment in these comments the same belt in the LZ0 engine is now rated at 200k miles before replacement....
CHANGE DA OIL🤷🏿♂️💯🤫🤔
Check da oil often.
Another commenter said that after reading these comments he went out to his Duramax which had covered 3600 miles since the last oil change...
and found the dipstick level 1 quart low.
H e had never checked his oil levels between oil changes previously.....
@@rickreese5794
Man, thanks again for very interesting video
I had a 2020 Silverado with this engine. Just traded it in in August with 146000 miles on it. It was making a knocking noise from the back of the engine on start up. The tech at the dealership said there’s a TSB about the oil pump belt tensioner bolts can back out and destroy the engine. Having other issues with the truck (glow plug codes, turbo leaking oil, and DEF problems) I decided to trade it in before I had to buy an engine.
Terrifying, these new vehicles have gone to hell. Dam European buying up all the American car companies or doing co development ruined everything
I love how every time this guy gets his hands on a recent engine, something less than 7-8 years old, it always starts a controversy over design robustness vs cost cutting
It's a valid conversation, I think. It's clear, from the engines presented here, that many engine designs abandon tried and true architectural choices, often for less-optimal results. Confusingly, it also seems to increase complexity and part count, which seems directly against cost-cutting.
@@danielclawson2099 Who knows the reasoning behind it all? For all we know its cheaper in the long run to use a more complex design with cheaper parts than the tried and true method, or maybe its just full on more efficient from a power or fuel economy perspective.
It’s a belt driven oil pump that’s only accessible by removing the transmission. That is redonkey dick
Great teardown Eric... I'm amazed on the damage on the tops of the pistons...
You should see one that drops a valve... if the engine had hypereutectic pistons, they will shatter like glass, into sand, and be completely missing from that cylinder.
Another quality GM product! Looking good Bobby!
Hi Eriuc. This is a great video.
The way the valves pressed into the pistons takes tons of pressure. Each piston is as the ram in a simple flywheel driven punch press. It would require a 40 ton or greater press to simulate this situation. The crank moves the rod a few last thousandths of an inch, developing that much pressure to "coin" the pistons. The rods and pistons survived. Impressive.
No engine should have its timing system at the back of the engine.
This thing is so sick!!! I'm in the process of turboing my vg33 in my Pathfinder pretty excited
So glad you did this one. I know a guy who has a truck with this duramax in it and he was telling me about the oil pump belt and he had to get it serviced. I thought for sure he was going to say he had his blinker fluid changed next. A really dumb design, but made for an awesome video!😂
146k miles in 3 years wow, that’s a lot
1000 miles a week or maybe even a little more.
@@zachlafond2652 Probably very little time to slip in an occasional maintenance.
I hope it was a work truck with multiple drivers.
That’s why you buy a diesel, you plan to run it. Or I should say that is why you used to buy a diesel.
Like Scotty said, "oil is cheap and engines are expensive". I always change my oil every 5k.
Nah gotta take the German planned obsolescence approach: "Use only 0w20 and leave it in there for 15,000 miles to ensure proper oil leakage, hard carbon depositing in ring lands, sludge buildup, oil burn-off and chain tensioner slack; We don't make any money if your engine lasts more than 3-5yrs or 100,000 whichever comes first"
@@alexwalker8422 Running Synthetic 6-7K miles, check it every couple weeks. Don't have to usually add any but just for peace of mind.
Scotty Kilmer? 🙄
@@nooooooooooo6uoki67 Yeah, he's a bit of a goof.
That's about when my oil minder goes off... soo
When you said reduced power, I was thinking timing. I have experienced this on other older engines. I had a 69 Pontiac with a 300 cI engine. It ran fine, but had noticeable reduced power. Pontiac used a fiber toothed timing gear that allowed the metal chain to eventually jump a tooth due to wear on the fiber teeth. When I got the vehicle, I knew it had issues. I tried retiming the engine through dwell settings( points and condenser) and reguardless of what I did, the timing seemed to float. Eventually the chain jumped enough that it did the engine in. Being zero clearance, an exaust valve took a hit. I didn't know it until I already installed a new timing chain and gears. It was my very first major repair on an engine and I was only 19 at the time.
Thanks for the tear down. Every motor you tear apart with long mileage oil changes makes me cry. For the price of a frequent oil change, you can get a lot more mileage out of your vehicle investment.
Those were some of the most satisfying head bolt removals yet
At 15:00 when the rear covers are off you can see the upper timing chain tensioner is already completely extended to its limit. Timing chain stretch is likely the issue for valve-piston interference, as well possible timing offset. These engines run very aggressive AI50 (50% burn point of the combustion process) which is likely the cause for the upper con rod bearing shell wear. Looks like number 6 piston also shows a crack in it.
You're killing my desire to buy one of these trucks! You're saying even with religious oil changes the con rod bearings are going to get beat up due to the aggressive timing the engine runs to hit it's efficiency target?
I thought I saw a crack in the piston also
@@terrynagle7410 doesn't bode well for longevity either!
@@DaveBenson don't do it man
@@KHALABEEB haha, but what truck do I buy then? Coyote powered Ford....I can afford the gas but I do love diesel
I watch these videos EVERY weekend and always hope for some maybe a little too tight head bolts just for all the sounds of them breaking loose, this engine definitely scratched that itch for a while
i feel like with some aftermarket support this would be an awesome, reliable, high performance engine
Seems like a pretty good designed engine, except for the oil belt and oil pump drive
Putting the timing chains at the back of the engine was also a dumb mistake.
@@djmech3871 No kidding! It should be a felony for car manufacturers to do that
@@djmech3871this platform was taken from the international market where it was originally intended for cab-over trucks that are serviced from the rear.
If you define “good design” as expensive to repair I agree with you!
I love In-line 6 engines and was considering this engine in a Silverado. The timing of your video is just perfect!
They did update the engine to LZ0 though.
Better than the timing on that engine!
The 3.0 Duramax is a very stout engine. This failure is do to the negligent owner not changing their oil at the correct interval.
@@EBIndy I agree however the better MPG argument means nothing when diesel is more expensive than gas
Just take came of your engine and you will be fine. Check your oil and when you change the oil add 8 qts not 7.
Good job dude!
Not so sure about the root failure is oil below pickup. While I am not familiar with this specific engine, most engines in recent decades will shut down with a loss of most or all oil pressure to prevent permanent damage. My theory, once a bearing loses its hardened surface, they melt away fairly quickly with friction/wear. When the extra 'reach' occurred on that cyl, it was the first to smack the valves causing a lash in the excessive timing chain system, causing the rest of the pistons to smack their respective valves. I think the original failure was a bearing failure.
good theory, I like it
Hi Eric I love it when you do diesels. Great vid. Would love to see a F150 3.0L Powerstroke. Cheers
Just look up Range Rover 3.0. Same thing.
Eric, you're a nut and I really enjoy your character. This engine is by far amazing in the way it hit the valves on the pistons. I'm glad I'm retired from being a GM master tech. I would hate all the newer stuff.lol
My uncle retired from GM master tech in the late 00s. I’ve drifted away from GM in the last couple years myself after a lifetime of being a fan.
im just seeing this one now, idk why i usually see them when they drop, but anyway the grease on your face hit me as really funny! i needed that laugh this dreary morning, thanks
This actually made me happy to own an LM2 in a weird way. I went into it knowing about the oil pump belt inspection and what's involved in that. Seeing this engine hold up surprisingly well (no shattered pistons, valves not crushed in) and only having this problem due to neglect has me hopeful for the longevity of one that's properly maintained
keep hoping consumer boy
@@TheInsultInvestor I plan to.
right there with ya! it's not all doom and gloom here. I love my LM2, it's a great motor. Some head scratching design decisions, but seeing this teardown and RCA made me even more confident in parts quality and robustness of the internals.
@adam9936 Exactly! There are definitely some questionable engineering choices, but most of the problems with these engines stem from a loose nut between the drivers seat and steering wheel
@cje26 I am in agreement with you and Adam, as an LM2 owner. For the mileage and torque from this little diesel, there are some things to admire after seeing this tear down.
Especially if it was low oil or poor maintenance interval on this unit.
Holy, i thought chevy came out with a new design for this eng. That is impressive... I've never seen a train engine blow a piston , until i worked at the BNSF yard. they kept one around. what an exit that had to be..
The reason for the rear timing chain is the combination of the aluminum block and long crankshaft leads to a lot of torsional vibration - the snout of the crank twists back & forth relative to the rear. Putting timing bits on the rear keeps those from transfering into the cams (and cam timing) since the transmissions dampens those vibrations the most.
Still a dumb design just to save 100lbs.
I saw a post by a fellow stating how the accessory belt on his engine had shredded and jammed up the timing belt on his volvo. a common issue on that model he said. at least when the timing chain and acc belt are at opposite ends that won't happen.
I would love to see the service history of this truck/engine.
Probably very few oil changes
I think this engine was run low on oil for an extended period. It looks like it had generally good maintenance over it's lifespan - perhaps it always used oil and the original owner kept up with it...then maybe it changed hands and the new guy ran it into the ground. Seen this type of failure a lot. I have a 2011 F150 with a Coyote in it - I bought it new. It has used oil since day 1, but I have always kept up with it. If I ever sold it to someone else, it would probably wouldn't make it one oil change interval before it would fail. lol
Got to remember Eric, those valve strikes on the top of the pistons were probably a few million in number before that big end failed and "announced" that the engine was absolutely KAPUT!
It must have sounded a bit off for a while, then . . .
@@nigeldepledge3790 sometimes a bit hard to tell with a diesel, not the most mechanically quite anyway.
@@gazzafloss - good point.
I just started watching this, & I have to say that is one very well built shipping pallet\cradle. Half lapped, doubled up 3/4 plywood(almost thought it was a LVL at 1st) screwed together in that crisscross style is super strong! That thing would hold a Cat 3406e no problem! Wow! Now lets see this lil dirtymax taken apart!👍👌🛠️🔩🔧📐📏⚡💥💨⚠️🤔🤷🏻♂️
24:49 Head bolts on diesel engine heads are serious! There's a lot of compression in the cylinders.....cause compression ignition --No spark plugs! GM\Izuzu must've learned from Navistar to properly hold heads down to the block -- #6.0problems🤷🏻♂️🤔😀
Have you in fact seen the video where his woodgeneering holds up a 3126 or is this coincidence? :D
1) it was run with the wonderful 10,000 mile oil changes as recommended on the oil filter packages "extended performance" which led to the gradual formation of the crud in the bottom sump area
2) someone allowed the oil level to get low which led to the jumped time and the final failure of one of the rod big ends (the rod bearings may have already been wearing out due to the "extended performance" oil changes)
did someone continue to try to "make it home" with an oil/red "check engine" light on?
Thanks Bob for this video