As someone who owns SMT5 for the switch but could not bring myself to play through it (I mainly play on PC, the framerate on switch was a dealbreaker), I feel like the list of changes more than makes up for me to buy it again on PC. BUT I can totally understand people would feel a bit short-changed if they played through it already on switch, especially if they were thinking of buying Vengeance again on the switch. I also don't really vibe with the Persona games but if I were comparing the list of changes I've seen in thoose games with Vengeance, Vengeance looks absolutely stacked.
I agree to a certain point, and I think Vengeance looks great, but I don't think its release should mean losing the old one. It won't be completely gone thanks to physical copies and all that, but in an age of increasingly digital gaming, it could become a bigger problem down the road. Hope you enjoy the game when you finally get the chance to play it, I loved the original. -Tin
I have to say I understand the argument of being against rereleases, and the idea "the game should have been like it in the first place". But, at least with Vengeance, they are taking the player feedback from base V very seriously. If we never got base V I would say its highly likely this would have released with many issues people complained about in the first game like Level Scaling. And if V did get delayed its also likely we would have just seen an expanded version of the story we got in base V, whereas now we have an entirely new story. I think because of this, Vengeance is in a better place because theyve made many player-feedback-led changes and also added something entirely new for us to experience. I would say its worth the full price.
I agree. In fact, I make a similar point in the video. I don't think the releases are bad thing or whatever but I do understand the people who don't see a point in buying the game at launch when a better, more expanded (full priced) version is probably right around the corner. It can seem a little consumer unfriendly in that regard. -Tin
@@TinMaxx i completely agree, I think its a really anti consumer decision to delist the base V. I am a huge fan of V as well, so its very disappointing to see. Especially because despite the fact you can play the original story route, there are still gameplay changes that I think will affect the game drastically, particularly in terms of difficulty, which looks like it will be easier. Theres even game design choices they've made in Vengeance that I disagree with, for example, Abscesses no longer obscure the map. I think that takes away a huge part of the game. So while I am excited for Vengeance I do think there will still be reason to play the base game, especially because I imagine area and dungeon layout may change slightly between versions.
As a dude who just bought vanilla version about a week ago. I totally forgot about vengeance. Idk why, it just blipped out of my mind until I realized it was too late. Personally I’m not really upset about this because vengeance is dropping next month which is also my birthday month. And I rarely splurge too which is great and it softens the blow a little. But I understand people are upset about the original getting delisted. It does suck not getting to experience a game before it got all the new updates and stuff. Honestly if I was the devs or ATLUS I would keep the original alongside each-other in the E-Shop. But, I would make all the DLC the original game had for free right from the get go. So that way new players or long time fans get more bang for their buck if they buy the original version of SMTV. But other than this. I wonder how Vengeance is gonna run on the switch cuz that’s the version I’m gonna get. I didn’t mind the pop ins in original game when I’m running around in the over world. it never bothered me really. The only thing that bothered me was the pop in’s on the models whenever you scroll through them in the pause menu, fusions or the compendium. It has been 2 years already. At the time the devs of SMTV never worked with switch hardware and Unreal Engine before, so I hope after these 2 years, they were able to fix this issue.
yeah its pretty bad classic version had a dungeon that was changed after, i one wanted that original difficult dungeon its now ONLY on the 1.0 version of it, content lost for a weaker broader appeal version, its insulting
SMTV already felt a bit water down compared to the other games in the series, so I get where you are coming from. We as players should get to choose what version of the game we play. Vengeance looks pretty great to me, but that's mostly because the original game was already amazing. -Tin
P5 was my first Atlus game and while I have played almost every official English release Atlus game now, that basically means I only had to deal with this with P5 and now SMT V and probably soon Metaphor. At least with SMT V I didn't actually get around to playing it because of the performance and scope but I was glad I was able to get the collector's edition. So because of that, I am somewhat fine with SMT V for a few reason, although P5 was a messy situation as stated in the video. With SMT V, Nintendo clearly helped them release it so it could release globally with various languages and was one of the first games officially announced for Switch. So I imagine there were certain constraints with the development and release so they may of had to rush certain things. I can understand development pipelines getting murky so they want to re-release games to get more stuff in later. I have two main issues with it. First, they do it so often when their major releases that it's hard to understand it most of the time. Second, given online connections, patches, DLC, etc. there's no reason these can't be updates or at least offer 20-30 dollar upgrade paths. No save transfer somewhat makes sense depending on the size of the changes, but no reason they need to charge full price for previous owners every time.
The royal content is closer to DLC even tho there are some changes sprinkled in the story. I’m not trying to defend Atlus’s practice But about SMT VV thanks to what I’ve heard from the journalist previews and What I’ve from the stream of the early parts of the game by a comedian in the Japanese Atlus accounts, the scope of the changes and additions are looking to be much bigger than I thought, yeah a 30-40 dollars upgrade would have been nice there’s no way Vengeance could be given a free update to the owners of the original version
I hope SMT5V will get future DLC. I would love a female protag option, characters from other Megaten games as optional bosses/playable characters, more demons, more places to explore, dungeons, quests, etc.
SMT do introduced a femboy protag since IV is already a step up, and female audience do enjoy yaoi fantasies without complaining the long tradition of male-oriented protag in mainline series
What you got in SMTVV is simply being redundant, you got a game that comes with a system being fully-overhauled, a fully recomposed story(as seen in the sneak peak stream in JP side) and full bags of old DLCs, and having at the nearly same MSRP as the vanilla version while the only downside is the wind dungeon is been detuned(based pre-midlife wind arrangement) and being limited transfer from the vanilla version while vanilla buyer being mogged like a b-tch if you hate that just buy a 2nd hand copy, way cheaper, while buying with extra DLCs would be simply nonsense as the vengeance's price is still cheaper even buying with 2nd hand copy of vanilla and extra DLCs in MSRP
If they made the Vanilla copy cheaper instead of delisting it I would agree with you. A lot of folks already paid the full price for the base game and now will have to pay again to get the improvements. Fans that paid $70 the first time should be rewarded in my opinion and not made to pay another $70 for new version. But, appreciate your thoughts and your comment! 🙏-Maxx
Similarly BS, all of the DLC (including the exclusive Vita-only link up app) for the Like A Dragon: Ishin game for PS3/PS4 was removed when the PS4/PS5 remaster was released. Friggin' BS.
This case is more like SMT III than Persona 5. SMT III was released as a very lacking version, so they made SMT III Maniax. Same game but with a lot of more content. In P5 Royal you only have Royal. Not the original version. In SMT V Vengeance we'll have a new route, basically a new story called "Canon of Vengeance". But the original is also included in this new release, they called it "Canon of Creation". Which is exactly the same original game, likely with the new QoL. So there's no point on keeping the original SMT V. I understand why Atlus wants us to play the clearly inferior version no more. If I create something, released it, and then improved it and fixed the issues my original creation had. I'll want to retire it from the stores to put my new one better version on sale. It's even more understandable if they're reselling the original game, the same price, PLUS a new game with it. Or, if you prefer, a new game + the old one both at one same price as the original one.
I'm not quite sure I understand the point you are trying to make? Much like SMTVV Royal added additional content but didn't remove anything major from the original game. If you ignore the Royal content, then you get the same overall experience as P5 Vanilla, just with a lot of QOL and all the previous DLC. Also, SMT3, which added back in cut content for the Maniax release, effectively making it a directors cut of the game, isn't the same as what they are doing with Vengeance. The new story path and other additional content isn't stuff that was cut from the original and added back in. It's all new content made specifically for this re-release, much like Persona 5 Royal or Persona 4 Golden. The potential problem of them delisting the original is more a case of where the line is drawn. What kind of precedent will this set going forward? Companies removing the choice to purchase older, cheaper versions of a game so the only options is the newer full priced game is something that will 100% be abused by publishers if not called out. If people want to play the original version of SMTV for whatever reason, they should have that ability, and Atlus shouldn't make it harder to access. I think Vengeance looks awesome, and once it comes out, I'll probably never touch the original again, but that doesn't mean it deserves to be erased. -Tin
The fact that street fighter and pokemon the literal first ones to do this skumy trend don't anyone is a sign atlus needs to stop not only this but all there greedy practices. They are owned by Sega and so many games like persona 5 sell like hot cakes there literally no excuse for this crap anymore
@@TinMaxx Don't worry, the next step backwards is releasing broken games to sell them again to you, still broken, so they can release it again, still broken.
Sorry, but what Atlus games have been released broken? I'm genuinely asking because my experience with Atlus games on launch has been great, with zero issues. Or are you just talking about the larger industry as a whole, which definitely has a broken-game-on-launch problem.
Why the fuck would it matter that they delist the version that doesn't have the DLC and updates? If you have nostalgia for the base version, that means you already have it
That's a valid question, and it's one we address in the video. Personally, I feel like there is a strong chance companies will start to test how far they can go in terms of delisting older games, even games that aren't that old like SMTV Vanilla. In this age of digital "ownership," conversations like this become more and more important as the industry becomes more and more consumer unfriendly. Thanks for commenting and contributing to said conversation! -Tin
I dont understand whats so confusing. Its the same game, same amount of value as when you first bought it plus more content which adds to the value even further, amounting to a full price again. It makes literally no sense to resell an enhanced version of an only 3 year old game with added value for a smaller price tag, especially knowing fans of the series will buy it. 😂 and why wouldnt you remove the inferior version of that product? If you're a first time buyer, theres no need to buy both and no need to run the risk of people buying the inferior on accident.
Nothing about it is confusing. What we are talking about here is the subjective value of a game, and I'm really happy for you that you're willing to constantly shell out $60-70 for games that have already been out for years but not everyone is going to be happy to do that. Removing the original game not only hurts the preservation of gaming as a medium, but it also hurts the consumer by removing any choice they might have. OG SMTV on sale was down to $20 and I bet Vengeance won't even see a sale price for several months and even when it does go on sale the price will not be cut by nearly as much. If someone would rather spend less on the older version to see if they like the game, then that should be an option available to them. Also, why is the first time doing this? What if they had done this with Persona 5? Where does the line get drawn for delisting games? Just because a shiny new version of a game releases doesn't mean the original is rendered completely valueless unless you're a cynic, I guess. Also, anyone who buys the wrong version of the game shouldn't be trusted with money in the first place. Learn to read. -Tin
No there is litterally nothing wrong with this. Physical copies will still exist, isos still exist. Vengence isnt removing the oriignal canon of creation. If you wanna be reactionary fuck wits about it and dont want to educate your self on the game then stop being fake fans.
Love the fact that someone who clearly didn't watch the video and just commented this off of the title alone is calling us "reactionary fuck wits". Calm down bro, it just a video game. At some point, maybe try rubbing together any brain cells you might have left and look at the bigger picture for once. Companies delisting old games is bad for everyone, and if left unchecked, will be abused to squeeze every possible cent out of people. Which is already being done to an annoying degree, but hey, keep calling randos on TH-cam names, and maybe someday Atlus will give you a pat on the back or something lol -Tin
Next time we're using the good camera. I did my best okay
We look a little pale 😂-Maxx
As someone who owns SMT5 for the switch but could not bring myself to play through it (I mainly play on PC, the framerate on switch was a dealbreaker), I feel like the list of changes more than makes up for me to buy it again on PC. BUT I can totally understand people would feel a bit short-changed if they played through it already on switch, especially if they were thinking of buying Vengeance again on the switch.
I also don't really vibe with the Persona games but if I were comparing the list of changes I've seen in thoose games with Vengeance, Vengeance looks absolutely stacked.
I agree to a certain point, and I think Vengeance looks great, but I don't think its release should mean losing the old one. It won't be completely gone thanks to physical copies and all that, but in an age of increasingly digital gaming, it could become a bigger problem down the road. Hope you enjoy the game when you finally get the chance to play it, I loved the original. -Tin
I have to say I understand the argument of being against rereleases, and the idea "the game should have been like it in the first place". But, at least with Vengeance, they are taking the player feedback from base V very seriously. If we never got base V I would say its highly likely this would have released with many issues people complained about in the first game like Level Scaling. And if V did get delayed its also likely we would have just seen an expanded version of the story we got in base V, whereas now we have an entirely new story. I think because of this, Vengeance is in a better place because theyve made many player-feedback-led changes and also added something entirely new for us to experience. I would say its worth the full price.
Fair enough! I just wish they had the base game still available at a cheaper price instead of delisting it entirely. Appreciate your comment! 🙏-Maxx
I agree. In fact, I make a similar point in the video. I don't think the releases are bad thing or whatever but I do understand the people who don't see a point in buying the game at launch when a better, more expanded (full priced) version is probably right around the corner. It can seem a little consumer unfriendly in that regard. -Tin
@@TinMaxx i completely agree, I think its a really anti consumer decision to delist the base V.
I am a huge fan of V as well, so its very disappointing to see. Especially because despite the fact you can play the original story route, there are still gameplay changes that I think will affect the game drastically, particularly in terms of difficulty, which looks like it will be easier. Theres even game design choices they've made in Vengeance that I disagree with, for example, Abscesses no longer obscure the map. I think that takes away a huge part of the game. So while I am excited for Vengeance I do think there will still be reason to play the base game, especially because I imagine area and dungeon layout may change slightly between versions.
As a dude who just bought vanilla version about a week ago. I totally forgot about vengeance. Idk why, it just blipped out of my mind until I realized it was too late. Personally I’m not really upset about this because vengeance is dropping next month which is also my birthday month. And I rarely splurge too which is great and it softens the blow a little.
But I understand people are upset about the original getting delisted. It does suck not getting to experience a game before it got all the new updates and stuff. Honestly if I was the devs or ATLUS I would keep the original alongside each-other in the E-Shop. But, I would make all the DLC the original game had for free right from the get go. So that way new players or long time fans get more bang for their buck if they buy the original version of SMTV.
But other than this. I wonder how Vengeance is gonna run on the switch cuz that’s the version I’m gonna get. I didn’t mind the pop ins in original game when I’m running around in the over world. it never bothered me really. The only thing that bothered me was the pop in’s on the models whenever you scroll through them in the pause menu, fusions or the compendium. It has been 2 years already. At the time the devs of SMTV never worked with switch hardware and Unreal Engine before, so I hope after these 2 years, they were able to fix this issue.
Yeah I will be curious to see how it runs on the switch too! Hoping for your birthday it runs amazing and you have a blast playing!- Maxx
@@TinMaxx Thanks broski’s!
yeah its pretty bad
classic version had a dungeon that was changed after, i one wanted that original difficult dungeon its now ONLY on the 1.0 version of it, content lost for a weaker broader appeal version, its insulting
SMTV already felt a bit water down compared to the other games in the series, so I get where you are coming from. We as players should get to choose what version of the game we play. Vengeance looks pretty great to me, but that's mostly because the original game was already amazing. -Tin
P5 was my first Atlus game and while I have played almost every official English release Atlus game now, that basically means I only had to deal with this with P5 and now SMT V and probably soon Metaphor. At least with SMT V I didn't actually get around to playing it because of the performance and scope but I was glad I was able to get the collector's edition. So because of that, I am somewhat fine with SMT V for a few reason, although P5 was a messy situation as stated in the video. With SMT V, Nintendo clearly helped them release it so it could release globally with various languages and was one of the first games officially announced for Switch. So I imagine there were certain constraints with the development and release so they may of had to rush certain things. I can understand development pipelines getting murky so they want to re-release games to get more stuff in later. I have two main issues with it. First, they do it so often when their major releases that it's hard to understand it most of the time. Second, given online connections, patches, DLC, etc. there's no reason these can't be updates or at least offer 20-30 dollar upgrade paths. No save transfer somewhat makes sense depending on the size of the changes, but no reason they need to charge full price for previous owners every time.
Agreed! Hopefully, they start to realize they are charging too much. But, I doubt it. Thanks for watching! -Maxx
The royal content is closer to DLC even tho there are some changes sprinkled in the story. I’m not trying to defend Atlus’s practice But about SMT VV thanks to what I’ve heard from the journalist previews and What I’ve from the stream of the early parts of the game by a comedian in the Japanese Atlus accounts, the scope of the changes and additions are looking to be much bigger than I thought, yeah a 30-40 dollars upgrade would have been nice there’s no way Vengeance could be given a free update to the owners of the original version
At least Switch owners get a physical copy of SMT5V, us PS4 owners don't even get that.
Physical copies hopefully make a big comeback!-Maxx
Play-Asia has preorders for the PS4 physical up...
I hope SMT5V will get future DLC. I would love a female protag option, characters from other Megaten games as optional bosses/playable characters, more demons, more places to explore, dungeons, quests, etc.
We will have to wait and find out! -Maxx
SMT do introduced a femboy protag since IV is already a step up, and female audience do enjoy yaoi fantasies without complaining the long tradition of male-oriented protag in mainline series
What you got in SMTVV is simply being redundant, you got a game that comes with a system being fully-overhauled, a fully recomposed story(as seen in the sneak peak stream in JP side) and full bags of old DLCs, and having at the nearly same MSRP as the vanilla version
while the only downside is the wind dungeon is been detuned(based pre-midlife wind arrangement) and being limited transfer from the vanilla version while vanilla buyer being mogged like a b-tch
if you hate that just buy a 2nd hand copy, way cheaper, while buying with extra DLCs would be simply nonsense as the vengeance's price is still cheaper even buying with 2nd hand copy of vanilla and extra DLCs in MSRP
If they made the Vanilla copy cheaper instead of delisting it I would agree with you. A lot of folks already paid the full price for the base game and now will have to pay again to get the improvements. Fans that paid $70 the first time should be rewarded in my opinion and not made to pay another $70 for new version. But, appreciate your thoughts and your comment! 🙏-Maxx
Oh dear
Yeah…. Not great news!- Maxx
Learn the lesson and wait for the *definitive* edition
That's a good call, especially if you also wait for them to go on sale. Most games get a pretty hefty price cut only a few months after release. -Tin
Similarly BS, all of the DLC (including the exclusive Vita-only link up app) for the Like A Dragon: Ishin game for PS3/PS4 was removed when the PS4/PS5 remaster was released. Friggin' BS.
It really is nuts… Think people who wait should be able to buy games at a cheaper price. This makes it hard to do that!-Maxx
I agree, I hate day one DLC.
They are the absolute worst!-Maxx
This case is more like SMT III than Persona 5. SMT III was released as a very lacking version, so they made SMT III Maniax. Same game but with a lot of more content. In P5 Royal you only have Royal. Not the original version. In SMT V Vengeance we'll have a new route, basically a new story called "Canon of Vengeance". But the original is also included in this new release, they called it "Canon of Creation". Which is exactly the same original game, likely with the new QoL.
So there's no point on keeping the original SMT V.
I understand why Atlus wants us to play the clearly inferior version no more.
If I create something, released it, and then improved it and fixed the issues my original creation had. I'll want to retire it from the stores to put my new one better version on sale. It's even more understandable if they're reselling the original game, the same price, PLUS a new game with it. Or, if you prefer, a new game + the old one both at one same price as the original one.
I'm not quite sure I understand the point you are trying to make? Much like SMTVV Royal added additional content but didn't remove anything major from the original game. If you ignore the Royal content, then you get the same overall experience as P5 Vanilla, just with a lot of QOL and all the previous DLC. Also, SMT3, which added back in cut content for the Maniax release, effectively making it a directors cut of the game, isn't the same as what they are doing with Vengeance. The new story path and other additional content isn't stuff that was cut from the original and added back in. It's all new content made specifically for this re-release, much like Persona 5 Royal or Persona 4 Golden.
The potential problem of them delisting the original is more a case of where the line is drawn. What kind of precedent will this set going forward? Companies removing the choice to purchase older, cheaper versions of a game so the only options is the newer full priced game is something that will 100% be abused by publishers if not called out. If people want to play the original version of SMTV for whatever reason, they should have that ability, and Atlus shouldn't make it harder to access. I think Vengeance looks awesome, and once it comes out, I'll probably never touch the original again, but that doesn't mean it deserves to be erased. -Tin
The fact that street fighter and pokemon the literal first ones to do this skumy trend don't anyone is a sign atlus needs to stop not only this but all there greedy practices. They are owned by Sega and so many games like persona 5 sell like hot cakes there literally no excuse for this crap anymore
It’s hard because these companies care more about the bottom line than their consumers. At some point it will bite them in the butt….-Maxx
From releasing broken games until they fix it 3 years later to releasing broken games so they can resell it to you 3 years later.
But there games are so much fun to play even if they are broken lol! -Maxx
@@TinMaxx Don't worry, the next step backwards is releasing broken games to sell them again to you, still broken, so they can release it again, still broken.
"Broken games"? Calm down bro. 😂
Sorry, but what Atlus games have been released broken? I'm genuinely asking because my experience with Atlus games on launch has been great, with zero issues. Or are you just talking about the larger industry as a whole, which definitely has a broken-game-on-launch problem.
Why the fuck would it matter that they delist the version that doesn't have the DLC and updates? If you have nostalgia for the base version, that means you already have it
That's a valid question, and it's one we address in the video. Personally, I feel like there is a strong chance companies will start to test how far they can go in terms of delisting older games, even games that aren't that old like SMTV Vanilla. In this age of digital "ownership," conversations like this become more and more important as the industry becomes more and more consumer unfriendly. Thanks for commenting and contributing to said conversation! -Tin
I dont understand whats so confusing. Its the same game, same amount of value as when you first bought it plus more content which adds to the value even further, amounting to a full price again. It makes literally no sense to resell an enhanced version of an only 3 year old game with added value for a smaller price tag, especially knowing fans of the series will buy it. 😂
and why wouldnt you remove the inferior version of that product? If you're a first time buyer, theres no need to buy both and no need to run the risk of people buying the inferior on accident.
Nothing about it is confusing. What we are talking about here is the subjective value of a game, and I'm really happy for you that you're willing to constantly shell out $60-70 for games that have already been out for years but not everyone is going to be happy to do that. Removing the original game not only hurts the preservation of gaming as a medium, but it also hurts the consumer by removing any choice they might have. OG SMTV on sale was down to $20 and I bet Vengeance won't even see a sale price for several months and even when it does go on sale the price will not be cut by nearly as much. If someone would rather spend less on the older version to see if they like the game, then that should be an option available to them. Also, why is the first time doing this? What if they had done this with Persona 5? Where does the line get drawn for delisting games? Just because a shiny new version of a game releases doesn't mean the original is rendered completely valueless unless you're a cynic, I guess. Also, anyone who buys the wrong version of the game shouldn't be trusted with money in the first place. Learn to read. -Tin
No there is litterally nothing wrong with this.
Physical copies will still exist, isos still exist.
Vengence isnt removing the oriignal canon of creation.
If you wanna be reactionary fuck wits about it and dont want to educate your self on the game then stop being fake fans.
Love the fact that someone who clearly didn't watch the video and just commented this off of the title alone is calling us "reactionary fuck wits". Calm down bro, it just a video game. At some point, maybe try rubbing together any brain cells you might have left and look at the bigger picture for once. Companies delisting old games is bad for everyone, and if left unchecked, will be abused to squeeze every possible cent out of people. Which is already being done to an annoying degree, but hey, keep calling randos on TH-cam names, and maybe someday Atlus will give you a pat on the back or something lol -Tin