The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Shin Megami Tensei v was one of my favourite games from 2021. This is a bit funny to me because, despite my enjoyment of this title and the agonizing wait for its release, it’s not one that I’ve really thought about all too much since it came out and I’m certainly not alone in this. Does anyone else find it kind of weird just how quickly the hype surrounding this game died? I get that it’s normal for single-player games to eventually leave the limelight once their 15 minutes is up, but honestly to say that Shin Megami Tensei V even got that much time is a bit generous. Almost as quickly as the game was in our hands the general public moved on. Again, not too out of the ordinary for other game franchises, mainly the ones that get yearly releases, but for this series, it’s a bit strange. As someone who considers themselves to be a fan of this franchise and may or may not have engaged in the odd discussion every once in a while, I’ve begun to notice a few patterns. Games from the PS2 era onwards tend to be the ones that receive the most amount of attention. Maybe if you’re lucky you’ll find a diehard for some of the really old games and I mean some ancient fossils. Like even is this?
This is why it’s so strange to me to see a big-budget and highly anticipated game within the community like Shin Megami Tensei V just sort of fall by the wayside. For that first period when the game was all fresh in our minds, yeah, there was a lot of discussion. But not too long after that, people just sort of moved on. It was almost as if the general public forgot that the game even came out. Again, normal for a franchise with yearly releases, but it’s not often that we get a new numbered mainline game. You’d figure that there would be a lot more buzz surrounding it but that just isn’t the case. So you know what? That’s what we’re going to be doing in today’s video. It’s been about three years since the release of the original game and with Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence just on the horizon, I think it’s time to take a look back and truly analyze why the original game failed to leave an impact.
The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V. Shin Megami Tensei V was one of the better games from 2021 however what people don't talk about is how Shin Megami Tensei V failed to leave an impact. in this Shin Megami Tensei V Review, Shin Megami Tensei V Critique, Shin Megami Tensei V Analysis, I plan on answering why Shin Megami Tensei V has an Unfortunate Legacy while also giving some insight into the game's development. Hopefully, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence will fully capture the potential of Shin Megami Tensei V and will be the better version of the game. When Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence comes out, I'll be sure to do a Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence Review, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengence Critique, Shin Megami Tensei V Analysis. So to stay up to date with everything Shin Megami Tensei and Persona related, consider subscribing to the Nam's Compendium channel. The Unfortunate Legacy of Shin Megami Tensei V is the best video by Nam's Compendium.
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You mention you don't know why the things mentioned early on didn't end up in the final product, while mentioning "producer Yamai". Well, I think that's actually a big point that showcases how turbulent production likely was. Yamai, who was initially pushed as producer and head of the game in early interviews is only credited in the final game by "original concept", which means at some point he completely left development of the game and new staff took over. I wouldn't be surprised if the story we ended up with was just the new staff attempting to finish the game on time.
“Released on a platform with the exact opposite demographic”?
You mean the same platform (Switch) that’s been absolutely dominating the primary market for JRPGs (Japan) for the past years?
Not just JRPGs but japanese games in general.
People don't wanna accept that the Switch dominates any market
What's a "Japan"?
Is also the platform from a company which have the most successful sales of SMT games.
Atlus know the niche and choose nintendo for smt, since is waaaaay less mainstream than other megaten titles anyway.
I was about to make the same comment 'cause that sentence stunned me so much like dude what are you even talking about LMAO
The music is fantastic though. Probably my favourite OSTs in the entire Megaten franchise. The other games have fantastic entries too
This is gonna sound crazy but SMT If the spin off that led into Persona (it's even connected to Persona 1&2) I feel has a really unappreciated OST and it's likely because it's so old and never had a CD or Vinyl or even Cassette I'm talking about the SNES OST btw the PS1 OST is fine but the cleaner audio makes it sound like a really lazy midi tracklist but the SNES version has a super punchy and epic vibe to it
As someone who never played Nocturne, I didn't suspect that V was imitating anything that came before. Da'at was an entirely new world to me and genuinely one of the coolest environments I've had the pleasure of exploring this decade.
I definitely agree. I enjoyed SMT5 when I was playing with it but it didn't super click with me. SMT4, in comparison, got a grip on my brain stem and never let go
Really wish we got a remaster of 4 and maybe even 4A
Complete reverse for me, i play SMT4 solely bc ppl keeping talking about how good the story is, the gameplay just didn't click with me
Same, SMT IV has to come to modern platforms
i could not finish smt4 no matter how hard i try. the overworld always freaking annoys me
@@cptncutleg slap SMT V gameplay and aesthetics on top of SMT4 and you get GOTY all years. I loved SMT4A too I don't understand all the hate it gets
Like a lot of other comments said, the biggest issue with SMT V is that it tried to be Nocturne 2 without understanding what made the original game work.
This isn't a "story simple & dumdum" issue. Nocturne had as simple of a plot as you could get, but the way it and the world in general was presented just hit _different,_ whetever it was because of the art design or the music or just that PS2 era mystique.
The vanilla SMT V plotline just feels like the diet coke version of that. Everything feels way blander and the characters don't really feel impactful outside of Aogami as he's the dude in your shoulder the whole game.
Idk, man. This game has a lot of potential but i hope the new campaign adds the staying power SMT V really needs to keep itself standing.
Tbf,I am a story first gameplay second kinda guy. The best combat and exploration can only hold me so long before I just...get bored without a proper narrative to keep me going. And this story...not bad,but not enough.
I started to notice I was interested less and less in the game WHILE on my first playthrough and when the tower and the ending CHOICE came,it completely lost me.
Choosing your ending kills all replayability for me. I could just save before the final dungeon and then reload after seeing an ending.
Different alignments do almost nothing to change the experience. I had to play through SMT4 four times back to back to get all endings but got story changes that actually justified it.
I swear nobody was talking about this game after barely a year it came out. I really do hope people come to appreciate SMT V for all the good and bad it did
SMT 5 just doesn't have any characters I care about. There are some good bits and pieces in the story and characters, but coming from SMT 4 it's just not hitting the right spots for me. And even compared to SMT 3, it fell short in terms of the overall world. Gameplay-wise, SMT 5 is great. But man, nothing will ever surpass that moment when I've slain the Minotaur and entered Tokyo for the first time, or when I met Hikawa in the eerie hospital in SMT 3. SMT 5's world just doesn't do anything for me. I'll still pick up Vengeance when it comes out because SMT 5 is a great game, and now that it's free from the shackles of the Switch, it might actually look like it finally.
Same, I didn't really care about anyone either.
I think they wanted to shove the whole desert apocalypse thing so much they forgot that exploring lively areas is good too like in smt4.
SMTV has the problem that, just like in SMTIV, the protagonist just met the main cast but, like in SMTIII, also assumes the protagonist has a relationship with them from the very beginning.
That is not how this works.
And then it builds up a charcter just to instantly kill them again. I think it could have done wonders if you had to live with not being able to defeat Lahmu and him being a motivation to keep going for at least one more area. Instead of a demonking you never met before (and who also just dies).
I personally like shin migami tensei 5 is it perfect no but you know as a fan of this genre I think it was fun.
I actually remember hearing when the game came out that SMT V did go through some rough development mainly surrounding using the unreal engine. Allegedly the staff was not familiar with the Unreal Engine causing large portions of the staff to leave and needing to get in a new development team. I don’t exactly remember where I heard this, so take this with a grain of salt.
didn't they advertise thta smt5 was the first game to be made entirely in unreal?
or was that persona 5?
@@Argonisgema I just looked it up and P5 runs on its own Engine making SMT V the first Atlus game to run on Unreal 5, which leads credit to the idea that it was unfamiliarity with the engine that led to frustration amongst a sizable portion of the Devs.
I cant wait for the new release, i couldnt deal with how bad it ran on the switch, kinda killed my excitement for it and i never even got past the first boss, but im looking forward to doing 2 playthroughs on the new release on ps5
Oh boy I really enjoyed SMTV as it hit that nerve going for great classic 'modern' JRPG feel.
I mean it's getting more love than Fire Emblem Engage. It's a game I keep forgetting even exists and is in my Switch wishlist.
I loved V. One of the few games i've beaten and went right back into it which i haven't done even for the "better" SMT games. Engage was for me the worst experience i've ever had playing fire emblem and as as result probably the last time i buy fire emblem on release.
I really like FE Engage.. I mean it’s clearly not as good as Three Houses but not much is
one of my big problems with SMTV that i hope gets solved in vengeance's new story is how all of the side characters are completely ancillary to whatever's directly in front of you, so they go off and have all of their story off screen only to pop up later like "so this happened". its the most noticeable with Dazai and Miyazu: Dazai because of his random hair slick back joker moment, like we see him go from his starting self to full extreme law man. Miyazu on the other hand literally doesn't do anything between the beginning and end of game until she's relevant for khonsu's optional story
Hope to Dagda DLC offers Anarchy Nanashi boss fight.
Really goes to show how little i care about some supposed generalized opinions Online, personally i played my first SMT5 File for almost 300 hours before i finally finished the game and hadn't felt as crazed about a Video Game ever since P3, now they're my two favourite games of all time, i felt the Story was better than past games so you really can't imagine my shock when i heard people dunking on the Story, to each his own i guess, im off to finish it 3 more times before Vengeance is out, hope i make it in time.
The intention behind V was to have the feel of Nocturne and the gameplay improvements from IV, so from that angle I think it did an okay job
5 screams that it was hurt badly by the pandemic
They even added a COVID demon (Amabie) in Vengeance, maybe this is a sign.
Doi's design for Amabie was first revealed on August 27, 2021 for wishing the end of the COVID19 pandemic, Years before it was officially announced that it would appear as a demon in Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance.
@@nr2676 interesting, didn't know the design was already 3 years old.
5 was hurt badly by multiple factors: COVID, first HD game for Team Maniax, first Unreal game and first open world game for Atlus..... also had to be squeezed into the Switch (obviously this is why P3R and Metaphor is not coming out there).
I don't agree with the "lack of identity" stuff, but I definitely agree that SMT5 just didn't stick in peoples' heads the way Nocturne and SMT4 did, and I do think that the underbaked as hell narrative and wooden, undeveloped characters are to blame for that. As much as I'm inclined to say I enjoyed my time with SMT5 more for the presentation value alone (since the gameplay is for all intents and purposes roughly the same as any other press turn entry), games like SMT4 and Strange Journey just stuck with me way more as experiences. Their atmosphere and writing just sort of elevated them into more complete packages.
Honestly if I could get a ground-up SMT4 remake with 5's production value that would probably be my favorite RPG of all time.
While i agree the story and characters were flat and forgettable, i absolutely loved it mechanically. So addictive and the core gameplay loop never bored me, even after i 100% it i wanted more. Very excited for Vengeance.
2bhwyf, I thought that the gameplay (especially the overworld and customisation stuff) was leagues above all the other games, I've replayed it 4 times because it's so good from a gameplay perspective. Miles better than the other titles. Story I imagine will be "fixed" with Vengeance but the original holds up on it's own
When I played SMTV for the first time after hearing about stuff from the earlier entries, I was expecting the story the be interesting. But as I was getting towards the end I wasn't really feeling the plot all too much. Luckily I was engorged in the gameplay so I didn't mind to much but it definitely felt like the plot didn't hold up to what I've heard and watched of the previous SMTs and I'm glad that feeling wasn't purely from my noob experience having never played any other mainline SMT game
(I'd played Persona at that point but theres obviously some district difference between the two)
The switch only release hurt this game bad, hopefully the definitive edition will help more. SMT is headed in the right direction
I agree, been waiting years to play this game on my PS4.
That makes no sense, is the fastest smt game and is the first that sold 1 million.
Remind you nocturne release on ps2!, the best selling console, and sold shit considering how good that console sold.
Just because you don't want a switch doesn't mean is sold bad, it sold great.
@@soragranda the numbers you say are world wide, I was speaking in terms of in the states. I’m aware of what SMTV has done in terms of the franchise I’m sure I’ve probably been a fan of the series a lot longer than most (old guy here). And relax I didn’t say anything bad about the switch I own two myself and I enjoyed the fact I could play it on the go. With more platform options it will help bring in more fans and those that don’t have a switch
SMT5 is overhated
Like SMT IV Apocalypse ;)
I agree.
def not, its one of the most underwhelming games ive ever played
I haven't forgotten about it, in fact it has been on mind since I found out it was only on Switch and hoping it would be ported......it's about damn time.
SMTV is a game, that's a fact
i absolutely loved this game.
My biggest fear for the new campaign is its going to turn out like Apocalypse and throw the alignments under the bus again for neutral. Which would be a shame since Law had the best ending this go around.
I think that's mainly because SMTV had great gameplay but a really shallow story. While people here on YT have been deep diving on the stories of games throughout the series because of their complex stories and subtext, SMTV has so little of that that when people were done experiencing the gameplay, the game just didn't have anything else to offer. That's what happened to me, at least, and I still adore the game
I do believe the costs of development caught them by surprise and so the story took a hit.
Doesn't help either the fourth end required so much effort with an underwhelming reward. Level scaling sucked but it wasn't until the Shiva boss fight that all momentum was killed with empty grind.
This is surprising! This is my second SMT game ever, after Apocalypse (it was a gift when I was younger) and I loved the fuck out of this game. I had no other context. Even though I played it on the switch, I thought it was super beautiful, I did notice lag in loading textures and some areas.
It's one of my favorite games ever, but I really wish the human parts were more entertaining. It was really boring for me, I just wanted to see the awesome demons, lol. I don't want to play persona for this reason, I'm here solely for the gameplay and demon designs.
I hope that we can get the semi fiend as a party member in the remake coming up.
Edit: Demi-fiend
After I finished my two runs (the second of which was just a god-mode run), all I could really talk about was the great gameplay, boring story and worse characters*. All of these topics didn't last long, so I didn't really get to say or think much about it.
*Dazai is the only one who seemed to escape the trend, which for me is a shame because I don't really like him. Here's hoping that Vengeance greatly improves the characters, especially Tao because she did literally nothing in the game.
smt 5’s story is stinky doodoo but this was the first mainline smt game to remove random encounters and that is a huge reason i am still playing
immediately after playing V I just knew it was an alright game but not on nocturne or IV's quality. I liked the atmosphere of a lot of the game (especially the first zone of Da'at) , it reminded me of smt 1 and 2 in some places (like the human tokyo exploration and bethel) but nothing else really stuck with me.
I initially disliked the gameplay and thought it was inferior due to how level scaling worked which also disappointed me.
as a longtime smt fan its like the game took one step forward, yet 4 steps back simultaneously. Hopefully Vengeance fixes this
No we do have the answer for why the story fell flat. SMTV had 220 odd daemons, a hand full of them new, 100% of them needing new models due to both the age of the current one (some as old as Nocturne, potentially older) and the switch to UE4 as the game engine. Keep in mind that SMT4 had used PNGs instead of models for the demons for a similar reason. Add on to the fact that no one on the team knew how to use UE4, and some 4 years of Dev time went to those to things alone leaving very little left for the other stuff. They had to take a new path and that lead to the pitiful dungeons, heavy use of the Da'at and the story being simplified. this is also the reason the game seems to reference Nocturne so much, because it was an easy way to quickly create a new story that fans might like. It's also most likely why the Fiend DLC exists.
I think the biggest narrative issue with SMTV trying to do Nocturne again (i.e. creating a world again, and regressing the personality of the protagonist from the 3DS titles) is that player impetus carries Nocturne. Your protagonist is silent because he (you) have nothing to say. You spend the game ranted at by idealogues, who you all reject by upending the forum..
If you pick one of the 3 reasons, Nocturne's narrative is scarcely better than the base 3 endings of V, even if Nocturne has better reps who get more screentime. Taking opportunities to struggle down the kalpas of the Amala Labrynth gives you ample time with Lucifer, and lends the TD ending the sense that you've achieved the world's one possible subterfuge. SMTV is different, and you aren't alone. You have Dad, and you spend half the game in a Law organization. Nocturne's combination of violent silence would have never been a perfect fit for V.
Also the knowledge concept is really cool, and inherently lends itself to interesting scenarios, so its a shame you have to finish 3 of the 4 open areas for unique narrative concepts to even begin appearing.
I've watched to the end, and this basically cements my frustrations with quite the amount of "fans".
You are saying this game doesn't have an identity or story, yet me merely someone who just dive into the mainline SMT series, loves it to bits. Whereas you think the story is hastily made, I instantly figured out it's a passive story, and it's thought provoking. You have to figure out the characters by yourself. They are people with their own story, emotions, and behaviours. Furthermore, they are also talked about by other people in this game. I still understand not only the human characters, but also the demons.
It's got its own identity too, as I genuinely feel this game is different from the rest. Whereas the past games put more emphasis on you trying to survive the journey, V does the opposite; you are way stronger than the others (even in your weaker state) with an actual purpose that we'll know later on. Hell, even the Fiend DLC reflected this. Not only by the music, but also how Aogami practically mocked them after one of the battles.
The same could be said to the areas too. Not only it's beautiful, but also filled with demons that you can talk with, be it in quests or just a normal chat. Hell, some of them will say something different as you progress through the game as well.
Furthermore, I see one "SmT yOuTuBeR" struggling in this game in a pathetic manner. He claimed in his community post that the locations of guardians for a quest is too "VaGuE". MEANWHILE, all I did was merely ask the requester again, and voila, he kindly gave their locations, down to which city block I might add.
The amount of people missing out the simplest of things, even those that are part of the core experience is just...astounding to say the least. It's like everything needs to be spelled out for them.
For me, this game is a Masterpiece. I will happily recommend it to others while telling them it has a passive story. With this sentiment, I very much look forward to Vengeance. The more I look into that game, the more excited I am for it.
I played this when it came out and I had fun for the most part. But yeah the story was like non existent. Hoping they fix it first the remake and the graphics are hopefully improved upon. My familys getting it for me as a gift so hope its worth it
SMT5 was meh after 4 and Apocalypse, and I hate that Atlus isn't offering any sort of upgrade path for Switch owners when it comes to Vengeance. Still, I'll likely pick up Vengeance at a strong discount, depending on how well it reviews with fans.
Will Vengeance do anything to improve the problems with the original story campaign? A new improved campaign is great, but hopefully new players who want to experience the original storyline first won't have to play 40+ hours before the story gets good
I doubt Vengeance will improve vanilla base story route but at least there is a whole different route.
I've heard people say SMTIV references other games to the point that it has no originality or self-confidence. All the self-belittling callbacks and references aren't nostalgia bait, but the writers not knowing what to do. There are to many references in order to make me think otherwise.
It is a lot like smt1 that is undeniable, but most people didn’t play smt1 so they have no idea
Isn’t it like, the vainilla version is good but I’ll wait until the “true game” is released. For what I have seen with atlus is just like that the real game is the enhanced version, so just wait.
As a newcomer to the series, it seems to me like the “SMT community,” has been a bit overboard with the criticism of the SMT 5 story. I just finished Soul Hackers, and the story and characters were quite dry and bland compared to SMT 5. ( I will say that the main story picked up quite a bit at the end). Every attempt to make me care about the useless hackers fell flat. Also, the “futuristic atmosphere” was pretty underwhelming outside of Paradigm X (which itself was kind of limited).
In contrast, SMT 5’s areas were all gorgeous hellscapes. The story developed in smaller pieces bit by bit. The fighting between the depleted Hell and Bethel forces was extremely interesting to me. Both sides were desperate and lacking direction. The early show of force from Nuwa really drove that home how pathetic the two sides were, and then you kind of kept having to be dragged along with the Tokyo branch despite kind of knowing they were full of it. The fairy village was a phenomenal moment for me. It was like this alternative little oasis outside of the petty fighting. The council was one of the coolest story moments I’ve ever experienced (I’ve been playing RPGs since 1991). Amanozako’s story was really interesting as it unfolded too. The only part that I wasn’t so much into was the school stuff and the mud face dude, but I get how that was important to establish the danger of nahobinos.
Gameplay wise, the final dungeon in relation to the requirement for the true ending doesn’t make sense because if you fulfill the requirement, then the entire end section is pathetically easy. Some of the level based damage rolls were also off. (I noticed they used levels to help calculate damage in Soul Hackers as well, but in SMT 5 the level scaling is just way overboard). Of course the overall exploration and fighting mechanics were top notch.
I really liked SMT5 and V got announced at a great time, as the itch to play it again is growing~
Though I still think the game's bosses where so weak and uninteresting overall >< (Which is weird cause the combat is fun but the bosses feel like normal enemies but with a bigger health bar)
I disagree, V's bosses were way harder than most SMT games bosses especially on the beggining where there is a lot of strategy involved, meanwhile in Nocturne (at least on normal, never played it on hard) you mostly abuse of buffs/debuffs, strong attacks and just have Daisoujou on your team for the most of the game, IV is kinda easy afther Medusa, IV Apocalypse i never played and Strange Journey is probably harder than V, SMT 1 and 2 are easy but the dungeon crawler aspect makes it harder to playthrough.
Game was fun, that's all that matters to me
A part of me thinks that smt V is _unfortunately_ a starting spiral of terrible design decisions coming from atlus.
Particularly coming from dlc ports, and _especially_ microtransactions.
Technically you could argue smt 4 started it, but then 3 hd tried to do it, everyone was not cool with it as it was supposed to be a _remake_
And unfortunately smt 5 still followed the trend publicly despite being a _brand new game_ yet there was already six forced separate dlcs on _day one_
And then it's story retake comes out and does not makes them free for the complete package, just makes them _cheaper?_
How is that cool
gameplay wise, SMT V is way too easy due to magatsuhi and the elemental null items
Thats every SMT game minus Nocturne tbh, they have a gimmick that breaks the game. SJ has sources, SMT1 has ailment ammo, 4 has smirk tetrakarn/makarakarn etc
@@dc7981 Ah okay. It was my first and only SMT and I'd heard how they were supposedly very difficult so I was disappointed
Men i liked the combat but the exploration felt like a coletaton plataformer
performance and lackluster story. those two are why I had a lukewarm reception to SMTV. it's just a really forgetabble rpg. sorry atlus
V is one of my favorite games. But the story was seriously lacking. Vengeance looks better story wise, but I have no intention of buying the same game twice.
I did not find fault with the original games story. Yes, it could have been more fleshed out, but it did its job well, in my opinion. That it’s going to expand on that, and give players the choice of a new path, is just what Atlus likes to do.
🐑
A game with good gameplay but does nothing with its ideas and characters and it has some interesting ideas, they just go nowhere. This game probably ha the worst "chaos" rep in the series, who ever you think is the worst probably did more and got more screen time then V rep, i kept waiting to get to know the guy and see his side but that time never came (not that the other 2 were much better but at least they got their time)
When it comes to smt as a series the story never got me hooked over all i like the game play in the series it just i never was given a reason to care about the story in any of the smt game
11:43 DAMNNN
Its definitely cuz the story is really lacking
I gotta disagree. The hype around SMT5 Vengeance is pretty dang big. It's just that games lose hype and the ones that don't are rare. Not every game can be Final Fantasy 7, ya know? Like look at highly praised games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Tears of the Kingdom. Aint no one talking about those games anymore
It's fascinating looking back at reviews of SMT4 at the time of its release criticizing the characters for being bland and forgettable. One decade later 5's characters lowered the bar and Walter and Jonathan are the meme icons of the entire series.
I feel like that shift happened earlier. people appreciated IV more after Apocalypse
Nah, most SMT IV reviews where made before SMT V release. And a Lot of those reviews come from either new players or Persona fans trying SMT for the first time.
I remember the memes of people noticing this when smt V came out.
It's because people treat Jonathan and Walter as isolated characters and judge them based on that, deeming them one-note "generic law/chaos boy". SMT IV like many games of the franchise focuses on world building and plot and the characters are threated as part of that rather then the other way around. I feel like character-driven stories have just become the norm, or at least mainstream stories have been a lot more character leaning. The true genius of their writing comes when you see them as cogs of a greater system, and you really need to have a grasp of the overarching world that is going around you which requires you to be aware of all the endings as well as pay attention to very important details that are heavily implied rather than made explicit with dialogue and visuals.
@dzigayu4944 YEAH EXACTLY
It's such a breathe of fresh air to see somebody get what SMT IV/Mainline SMT before 4A was going for. The characters and endings aren't "choose a faction," and instead, pieces of a larger whole that is the main theme of the work.
At this time and age, buying an ATLUS game first day is an invitation to disaster. 3 or 4 years later you'll be playing a better, more refined version anyways.
At this rate, my only reason to buy an ATLUS game at launch would be fear of receiving spoilers untill the better version and FOMO.
I still prefer the OG version of Strange Journey to its remaster which only came out 10 years later.
It felt like nothing more than an easy to make cashgrab of a relatively newer, yet perfectly fine title which also shat on Kanekos iconic artwork by replacing some of it.
That last point alone would make me never want to give that game a single cent.
@@Thial1000Considering redux have the best ending and tons of quality of life improvement.
Kaneko designs doesn't have much weight to me.
People need to learn to move on.
Persona 5 vanilla was an amazing experience without the royal content so idk what you're talking about. And also, SMT 4 didn't have a second version and the game is one of the best jrpgs I played in my life and compared to SMT 4, SMT 5 is not even close to be as good.
Case in point: SMT5 Vengeance, which I will most certainly get a physical PS4 copy of this summer! :)
The fighting mechanics were fun but 2 things ruined the game for me:
1- The damage was defined not only by your stats but by your level, your demon could have 99 magic but as he was 10 levels below the boss then you did practically no damage, what the hell? and the same but in reverse, if you were 5 levels above the boss and your character had mediocre stats he still did a lot of damage and received nothing.
2- The plot was completely mishandled, undeveloped characters with unknown motivations until the last dungeon of the game and with very boring endings, definitely the SMT with the worst endings. They wanted to make a kind of modern SMT3 but it really didn't even come close to it.
The first point was the nail in the coffin for me for the original smt v sadly. Thankfully the developers for 5 vengance have mentioned that they are changing that aspect
So should levels be removed entirely then? And only leave stats?
@@SourWine789 Naw. not levels the level scaling, that's what op is talking about.
Its been in other games in the series also so if they take that out i feel the game would be better for it.
Literally ruined the game with that scaling BS
@@Argonisgema ohhh I see, my mistake
It may be an unfortunate legacy, but damn if it doesn't have some of the best RPG gameplay of the past few years.
We can all praise the gameplay as much as we want but at the end of the day we gotta acknowledge that it's an SMT game, and you can find just as good of gameplay if not better in Nocturne, IV, IVA or SJ.
So at that point the only things V can use to stand on its own merits are that story and atmosphere, most of which felt lacking, especially again in comparison to those older games.
And keep in mind, V came out 5 years after IVA, nearly a decade after IV. All that time and the only thing V has that sets it apart is Ryota Kozukas amazing soundtrack.
That's why SMT fans hate on V
@@Pie_The_Man Tbf in terms of mainline SMT, the only one with even a passable story is IV. V really reminds me of III in all of the best (and worst) ways.
I think we just have to accept SMT overperforms in gameplay, while overperforming in story/characters is more Persona's thing. Maybe one day we'll see a game from either of them that excels in both.
@@Pie_The_Manthis is just not right tho, majority of smt fans actually love v for its gameplay, there’s always gonna be opinionated statements but factually smt v houses the best quality of life changes while still being accessible to newer players. The main issues people bring up about the game is the level scaling, the magatsuhi system and the minimalist story which all are valid complaints but don’t make the game worse than other smt games, in the gameplay and exploration department this is the best smt game
@@Pie_The_Mandon’t try to speak for other smt fans, people don’t hate smt v it’s regarded as one of the best in gameplay but factually one of the worst in stories but the gameplay is arguably as good if not better than iv. It only gets criticized because lack luster story
@@Pie_The_Manjust as good yes…better no, smt v definitely has the best gameplay and exploration just off the new mechanics and how much more streamlined they made fusions. And the fact they made making your ideal demons less tedious with the addition of the essences is phenomenal. The quality of life changes are top notch, such as fusing from your compendium and changing affinities and skills via essences
SMT V is the game of all time
Gameplay and Lore wise I agree. Story wise needs a bit of work
Lol. Let's hope SMT V V does it justice.
come back patrock i miss you ☹☹
@@goobertgum nope
SMT V is definitely a game
I’m glad I didn’t play this game until last year when my roommate let me borrow his switch, so my copy was only like $30 😹
My biggest problem with smt 5 is that it tries to be nocturne really badly without understanding what made nocturne's minimalistic setting for its story work and doubling down on flaws that plagued nocturne as well
I still love the game,but it couldve been so much better if it tried to carve its own identity rather than trying to be nocturne 2
Pretty much.
I agree totally with this. I liked Nocturne back in the day but games like SMT IV absolutely surpassed it in gameplay and mechanics. V feels just like Nocturne and I never liked that at all a lot.
I also strongly prefer a dystopian/sci-fi Tokyo with gameplay featuring COMPs, fighting with real weapons and technology instead too.
Now SMT VV is out and it's amazing
@@Junpeidaman190 YEP
VENGEANCE REDEEMED SMT5 AAAAAAA
GENIUNELY ITS NOW ONE OF MY FAVORITE GAMES OF ALL TIME
@@GanonAutumn777 YEAH
With the recently announced SMTV Vengeance or whatever it's called, I've decided I won't be buying anymore Persona or SMT games at launch. If they want my money, they'll release a full package a launch, not 2-3 years later.
This, it's straight disrespect to the consumer and people defending them are delusional. I've also decided recently that I'll be doing the same.
@@d4sbot I used to like Atlus a lot, but in recent years I've grown pretty sour towards them. In fact, Monolith Soft has taken their place for me, because at least they will release a full game, and their DLC is priced appropriately.
Zoom-Zoom doesn't know what expansions are
LOL! LMAO!
I wish I had your self-control. I'm probably still buying games at launch even though I know that eventually they will release a new and better version of the same game, and that sucks.
Now that Atlus is releasing games simultaneously on multiple platforms and PC, I hope they release new content as DLC. But we know Atlus, they probably won't.
Same, I only bought this game near launch, due to the steel box release of SMTV being 40 USD.
ATLUS wants us to double dip, like with every other re-release they've done, but I don't want to, when Monolith Soft releases finished RPGs with DLC that is like expansion packs from years gone by.
There's also what Nam has told on how a lot of ATLUS re-releases have something that screw it up, a random new character, an iOS port, "true golden ending". For every Devil Survivor Overclocked or P5 Royal, there's all the other re-releases.
It's a shame too, I like the new stuff in SMTV, even as someone that didn't play as much of these games, but I really don't like how V's story feels half baked, especially when other SMT games have better story. It's the very reason why I focused on finishing Xenoblade 1 Definitive Edition.
Even though SMT5's story is undoubtedly half-baked, there is one through-line 5 made that I genuinely loved. That being the natural conclusion to Lucifer's motivations in Nocturne.
Lucifer's primary goal in Nocturne was to overthrow YHVH, who he believed was responsible for the endless cycle of destruction and recreation the universe had been subjected to. He was successful, but his victory in dethroning God led to a discovery he wasn't expecting. That YHVH ultimately wasn't responsible for the cycle, even if he had a hand in manipulating it to some degree. In truth, the Mandala System is an inevitability baked into the foundation of the universe itself.
But upon consuming The Creator's knowledge, he discovered a way to free the universe from the Mandala System. He would finally be able to create the unshackled world he desired in Nocturne. But to do so, he would need to pass down the Knowledge he consumed to a Nahobino capable of not only reaching the Throne of Creation, but capable of defeating him in his complete angelic form.
Lucifer is Chaos in the sense that he desires a version of humanity that is completely unfettered. From the beginning, he's acted in hopes of seeing what people can do when they're allowed to reach their fullest potential. With nothing, not even God himself, holding them back. It's only natural he would do everything in his power to bring his vision into reality, even if it means sacrificing himself to do so. Even if he isn't there to see what humanity is truly capable of, his battle ends with him content that the universe's shackles will finally be broken.
It proves to me that, at one point, a much deeper story was planned for this game. And yet because SMT5 had a troubled development, a lot of ideas had to be thrown out. And yet, somehow through it all, this one scrap of an incredible story managed to survive.
SMTV Excels in gameplay, no question about that. The original story is just, Interesting ideas and some admittedly cool cutscenes, kind of just stringed together. It's not a terrible story imo, but it's left too open ended and does not give players enough to sink their teeth into. Especially with having the traditional law, chaos and nuetral routes but only two of those routes feel like they have any buildup.
At least going by the Trailers of Vengeance, I know for sure that'll have far more going on in the narrative and characters to keep folks engaged.
But it will leave the "Canon of Creation" feeling like just an extra game mode you can go through like say the Akira Route in SMTIF / Snow Queen in Persona 1, rather than the original narrative (unless Vengeance does add more cutscenes too it, which I doubt).
You saying it was left ''open ended" is you being gracious, this story was a work in progress that was left unfinished and released as it is unfortunately, that's the main reason vengeance is important right now, getting a good and finished story with this great gameplay will make this game more than just memorable.
yeah unfortunately, the lackluster story IS the reason this game vanished from the public limelight so quickly. RPGs, more than any other genre NEED a good story to have a lasting impression.
@@ArynBacklogDragonagreed story is important to rpgs
the gameplay is not good, the combat is good, the rest of the actual gameplay is atrocious.
It wasn't "open-ended", it was incomplete. Majority of the character arcs made no sense and were rushed by the end. There were a lot of fanboys justifying the game when it came out for being "minimalist" but it was just nonsensical and lacked any real impact by the end.
I truly think Vengeance will fix most if not all of these problems.
*Ding* *ding* *ding*
Correct
Most but not all
@@2265Hello Which problems do you have issues with?
@@echos9396 story went from bare bones to passable really. Though imo its not something they could have fixed without redoing most of the game on top of a rewrite
For me Smt 5 feels like a unofficial part 2 of smt 3 part but its butchered. Let put it in a other way Imagine pokémon gold and silver that you can fight only battle some of the kanto gyms and the main game is rushed and the red fight is 30$ dlc. But everyone just appreciate it by just exist because of the unreasonable cooking time.
I ignored it because it was in Nintendo jail, gonna pick it up when it's on PC.
I truly think COVID really hurt this games development in certain parts. Overall, this is still an amazing game and my favorite within the franchise. The gameplay in this game is so good.
It took a reset for me to enjoy the game and gameplays. But other things came out that caught my attention. But now with Vengeance coming out I don’t even want to bother finishing my first playthrough
The game was in development when the Switch was still called the NX 💀
Did it really? The game was in development years before anyone would seriously consider a global pandemic.
@@dzigayu4944 I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that one year of a pandemic could really do some damage to some of the plans they had. Remember this game released in 2021 and many corporations were doing work from home and still trying to figure out how to work around the new environment at the time.
@@Chelaxim just because it was in development, that doesn’t mean it entered full production. Remember that games often have a “draft” phase where they are writing the story and testing gameplay concepts.
For me SMT V had some disastrous writing and uneven character development issues that made me not really care to go back into it and explore or experience the whole thing again like Nocturne did. The gameplay was great, sure, but so much of the writing felt underbaked.
I've been replaying OG SMT V before Vengeance and yeah, the game still holds up well in the gameplay, it's probably one of the best if not the best turn based JRPG gameplay i've see so far and this makes me even more hyped to see if Vengeance will finally fix its main issue that is the story.
With that said, it's unfortunate that the game couldn't have been launched in a satisfactory way from the beggining but i really wish that Vengeance will properly deliver the game we wanted 3 years ago.
I hear people say this and it generally confuses me every time I hear it. Not that you are wrong, I just generally wonder how many jrpgs you even played.
L E V E L S C A L I N G
What disappointed me was that I was expecting it yo be as memorable as SMT IV. While V had a banger OST and the best combat in a turn based RPG, it's world and characters just left me with nothing. The world design was so good that I wish it had more depth to push it forward.
I never picked it up and I honestly hadn't been interesting in ever playing it... but I am somewhat looking forward to Vengance. Maybe when it goes on sale.
Fym SMT V has bad art direction what game have you been playing
SMTV is such a weird game.
Like, the gameplay is really fun, it looks pretty good, neat cutscenes and an amazing soundtrack that could easily stand next to those from other titles.
However, the story and worldbuilding is incredibly shallow. And the little there is, you don't have to look out for. It's fed to you by hand while you follow orders without being able to make any meaningful decisions until the very end (where you basically get the same ending with role distribution determined by who you joined).
If I compare this to Nocturne...
Nocturne also throws you into this world you have no idea about, but:
Nocturne establishes your friends as persons the protagonist already knew for quite some time
SMTV has of a group of people he just met and that were nice to him.
Nocturne hands you as your first ally a bit dubious reporter who also has no idea what's going on, so you have to figure out what to do by yourself.
SMTV gives you a protofiend who tells you what to do. No need thinking for yourself. He is later replaced by a minister and an archangel who tell you what to do.
In Nocturne, while you barely meet your former friends, every meeting is important and progressses their character development.
SMTV the meetings are not nearly as meaningful and then right before the finale suddenly change to fit the stories's end. Also, two of the characters just disappear before you can really bond with them.
Nocturne has, despite being a world where all humans were wiped out, various npcs in for of souls, demon and manikins who contribute to the worldbuilding with their dialogues.
SMTV has npcs that give you quest or warn you of a bossfight. I can count the demons who contribute to worldbuilding outside of these on one hand.
Maybe I was really unlucky with my choice of the two endings I played (Nuwa and Abdiel).
Maybe I am not deep enough into Nocturne to get taken in by the references (I finished my first SMTIII run after my first SMTV run. Nuwa ending is def. the funniest though)
But with all it's good points, I am really struggling to get myself to play SMTV for a third time.
And I am scared Vengeance is not fixing that in the long run.
I'm pretty certain I remember people bringing up comparisons to Nocturne as early as the first few trailers and comparing Da'at to the Vortex Realm in terms of general aesthetics. Sure it became alot more blatant with the final game and the Demi-Fiend dlc but I'm pretty sure comparisons were made at the time.
i've been thinking about and i really do think that real life events might be the cause of the story being as it is. For example, another japanese game, ciconia phase 2, was planned for 2020 but due to the game being about world ending events, the dev decided that he shouldn't release it because of covid happening and the game got delayed to this day. Also, if you go back in time, this thing can be see happening numerous times, for example Disaster Report 4, a game about surviving through giant earthqueakes and tsunamis, was cancelled after the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and didn't release until several years after. Going further in time, when world trade center attack happened, a bunch of games and movies got cancelled, delayed or rewritten, basically anything including new york or 2 towers being present in a story. My theory is that they indeed had a story ready around 2018 but after covid started happenning in 2020, they chickened out and got scared and decided to nuke the entire storyboard, after which they only managed to pick a few pieces left and glued them together and it stayed like that due to the deadline being not far of and the game being already far in development and not having time to rework stuff and they just kinda had to make something up with what they already had.
I mean, I still don’t think it’s legacy is unfortunate. It’s an SMT game, this did exactly what it needed to do for fans of the series. Can’t wait to buy it again after I beat Elden ring DLC.
I'm selling hand drawn saucey pics of Jack Frost if your interested. Normally $120 but I'll cut you a deal for $70.
SMTV is to megami tensei what FE Fates is to Fire Emblem.
A game that _has no story_ or rather it might as well have no story. But the gameplay overall is spectacular.
Wonder if that gets fixed in Vengeance.
I would say FE Engange is also a good comparasion
@@alsaiduq4363
Engage and Fates are basically cut from the same cloth so that’s understandable.
@@alsaiduq4363 it's really weird that multiple somewhat niche rpg series have a switch entry with weak ass storytelling but amazing gameplay.
I kept thinking the exact same thing the entire time while watching this video.
I've been saying this for years, funny enough Fates(Conquest) is my favorite Fire Emblem game, meanwhile... IV is my favorite SMT game but V was also great and fun in the end, now i just wish that Vengeance fixes the story.
I think about SMT V every single day lol. Its my favourite game of all time.
Glad you injoyed the game what is your favorite thing about the game just curious?
@@GoProGamer447 the lore and atmosphere.
The gameplay is amazing but i dont think just gameplay can carry a game. I think the lore is the most interesting out of any SMT game. And I think that the story is an interesting allegory for ideologies.
I will admit characters are better in other SMT games (SJ and IV) but there are still characters i like (Dazai, Abdiel, Nuwa, Yakumo, Tao and Sahori)
@@louish5068bro I love their take on the Garden of Eden. God took away every other God's knowledge and placed it in an apple. Adam and Eve ate the apple, which is why God punished humanity because now the possibility of a Nahobino arising is on the table, threatening God's rule. So cool
@@Mavuika_Gyaru I also like the fact they just say a serpent tempted the humans. We dont know who that serpent is especially with this newly revealed focus on snake gods in Vengeance. Obvious answer is Lucifer, could be Nuwa (she would want humans to be free of God as she is in her mythology a mother goddess who created humans), and could also be Lilith now given her Vengeance design or possibly Samael (who she is a wife of, could explain why Samael is seemingly dead, there is also a somewhat popular interpretation of the Bible in which Samael is the serpent in Eden)
@@louish5068 actually In the bible it was never stated that the serpent was Lucifer, it's always referred to as "the serpent". But yeah, SMT can make which ever demon they want as the serpent and Nuwa being that serpent is a cool idea
I welcome the changes for vengeance. I really liked smt5 but is a bit rough around the edges. Thankfully the vanilla experience comes with vengeance so is like buying smt4+apocalypse for one
I don't mind how SMTV borrows so much from Nocturne. I love Nocturne, so why wouldn't I want more of it? Something original and new might have been nicer, but sometimes trying something new is risky, so I understand from ATLUS' perspective.
5 gameplay is great, but 4A is still better in my opinion. The decision to make level a stat really compromised my experience, way too many fights that just were hard because I was underleveled and then became a walk in the park if I was at the same level or one above as the enemy. Also their phylosophy with battles going for way more time wasn't really something that added much for the enjoyment of the gameplay.
Hadn't though before about the lack of memorable spots in the game until you mentioned it. From the top of my head, I can only recall the school in some cutscenes when the plot with that schoolgirl and the demon starts, the fairy village and the place where they hold the council of gods. From the trailers, the game looked like it would have way more closed and tense scenarios, horror vibes and all, but that was very much only in that school portion of the game. I feel like a modern world slowly becoming ravaged by demons in the same horrific way as it happened with the school would have made for a way more unique atmosphere, tho I enjoyed the early game where you're just dropped in this ruined and deserted place and have to face off demons without knowing what's going on for quite a while. Gives quite a unique uncertain feeling to the player, while also allowing for a certain indepedence, even if fake since there is limits to where you can go and what you can do.
How is the Switch the "exact opposite target demographic" for jrpgs? Pretty stupid thing to say. You should've said Xbox.
I bought a switch for this game and i love it but after a while this game just disappear from my mind, i think the problem is the storytelling, for me other SMT games are like experiences with themes or character you can pondering for a long time but SMTV feels more like a toy, is really fun to play with but when you finish with it nothing of his story or characters remain with you
SMT5 was the most disappointing of the main games to me, I put up with 4 and when I took 4:A less seriously I began to enjoy it. All 5 gave me was a half-decent opening, interesting ideas that went nowhere, flat characters, no dungeons save 2, really good demon designs, excellent art, a great OST, and a very wonderful send-off to one of my top 5 favorite characters in the franchise, Lucifer, in a game that doesn't deserve said send-off to a character who definitely doesn't deserve to inherit his will; Hito-Shura, Aleph and the MC or SJ deserve to inherit it Way more than the MC or 5.
I enjoyed the game A LOT. But it just didnt hit the same like SMT4/Apocalypse. Smt4 stayed in my mind way after i finished it and i wanted to get all the endings. The characters were more interesting and their situation felt dire. Not to mention the twist in the beginning. I thought it was gonna be sone medieval setting until it wasn't. That right there pulled me in. I wanted to like 5 more but it feels a bit empty if that makes sense
I had fun and enjoyed the story. But i won't deny that the story was sloppy
Great video, Nam!
As someone who absolutely loves this game to death and still plays it from time to time, even I can't help but agree with many of your points here. I think it definitely suffers from a serious case of "Pre-Maniax syndrome" where, despite its initial release being absolutely groundbreaking in the graphics and gameplay department, the larger story and narrative content is just so inherently restricted in its presentation that said initial release is simply unable to cement itself as "one of the greats" despite how brilliant some of the new ideas present here may truly be. I mean hell, we kinda tend to forget that the initial release of Nocturne was (as far as I remember, don't quote me on this though) pretty mixed in its reception by diehard Japanese fans just because of how much of a downgrade they felt its main campaign and story presentation to be from that of 1 and 2.
So ultimately, my hope for V is that, like Nocturne Maniax, maybe Vengeance will serve as sort of a "rekindling of the flame" for this game and its legacy. Because, warts and all, I absolutely ADORE this game, not just for its gameplay but for its story too. Having played through it about 6, going on 7 times now, I can't help but feel that this game's story is just such an honest, valiant effort, even if many of its threads do tend to fall somewhat (or in some cases, VERY) short ( ***cough*** Yuzuru Atsuta).
In fact, I love it so much that I've (apologies for the shameless plug, lol) recently begun working on a sort of "documentary" type video for my channel that aims to foster just general analysis and discussion surrounding the game, but with a bit more of a "positive" air to it, focusing a lot more on the things that I felt it did right rather than wrong. I mean hell, I don't feel like nearly enough people talk about just how spectacularly SMT V tackles a lot of the real world myths via its quests and substories compared to previous entries; Not to mention its particularly "meta" incarnation of Lucifer, which is easily one of the most fascinating parts of the entire package to me personally.
Overall though, great video, man. I just love seeing candid discussions surrounding these games, positive or negative. It all comes from a place of love for these games, and just a general, shared desire to see our favorite series to be the best they possibly can be and I don't feel like you can ever really go wrong with that.
Cheers dude, and here's to hoping Vengeance will blow us away!!
This is my first taste of the franchise and I am really enjoying it. I see how they cut the fat and are reapplying it to the rerelease and that’s definitely a turn off but coming out of final fantasy and dragon quest, this game is sick
Kind of new to SMT and Atlus games in general. Started with SMT5 on release. Got P5R some time later. There is one important thing I learned about those games and Atlus itself. Never buy a Atlus game on release. They milk their fanbase dry, every fucking time. Wait a few years for the complete edition with all DLC and on sale. I don't get why the fanbase even accepts this kind of thing. Anyone is shiting on Ubishit and EA, but japanese developers a kind of worse in some way. Releasing a halfbaked, unfinished mess of a game and they put some of the worst money milking dlc I've seen so far. Same shit with the rerererelease of P3. I'll buy it in a few years when the most likely complete rererererelease is on sale.
4:30 Opposite target demographic?, Switch?, the hell dude, ignorance is fine but holy shit XD.
I sort of disagree with you about the game not having atmosphere, the desert area that you start in has great atmosphere imo.
If the game wasn't on the switch exclusively, more people would've talked about/play it. On top of it being a covid game with as big of a team as it had, coordinating that and having the end product being good is gonna be a pain
The Switch has dominated the JRPG market for the last couple of years.
Very unfortunate
It will comeback with vengeance