men want harder truths means... men want a structure where women are exploited and have harder lives so that men can enjoy the harder "truth" of a comfortable life. They're just lazy and losers because I guarantee that they don't want to really suffer. They can't even handle being slightly associated with bad men in history. They get upset when women choose the bear. I don't see these men having the inner strength to handle even a paper cut much less the "hard truth" they claim they desire. If they truly want a hard truth, let them listen to lectures on toxic masculinity. They won't be able to handle that truth. and frankly, in the last 5-10 years, have started to think that human males are developmentally delayed. I mean, they're so stupid they fell for Petersen or Tate or that silly fresh n fit nonsense. I think we need to keep them in school and not grant them the legal right to be considered adults until they're in their twenties. if they need somebody to tell them to clean their bedrooms, they aren't ready for more responsibility or power.
It’s about control over womens bodies. Those kind of men don’t give a shit what women go through, just as long as they have control over women they’re satisfied.
We humans wouldn’t have to deal with this problem if evolution or gods had made puberty, reproduction, pregnancy and childbirth much more easier for women!
"You, as a woman, are meant to be pure and virginal until you get married, serve and obey your husband who is the master of the home, bear children until your body breaks- wait, where are you going?!"
Preacher’s kid here, I began questioning the church doctrine as a teenager when two church staff told me that the way I was wearing my crossbody purse (i.e., across my body) could “cause a brother to stumble.” When i questioned this, they told my parents I had the spirit of Jezebel. To give you some context, Jezebel was an ‘evil’ queen that tried to kill god’s prophet Elijah. She was later thrown to her death from a high window (by gods servants) and eaten by dogs. ALL BECAUSE OF HOW I WORE MY PURSE.
I bet it was because it parts your boobs and those adults were staring. I had the same issue, where I was told not to wear a crossbody or long necklaces because I was purposefully trying to make others look at my 14 year old chest. Like bro, wtf are you doing ogling a child’s body like that?
Preacher's kid too. I'm 76, black and Baptist. I was supposed to find a man to marry who would take care of me. I told my dad that I'd take care of myself. It was around the time that women's liberation was at its height. Men expected you to serve them dinner. I told men in my life that they had two hands and two feet. Yhey could get up and get their own food. Taught daughters to strive to be all they could be and not subservient to the male of the male of the species. Respect goes both ways. Don't tread on our feelings or our freedoms!😊
There’s a guy at my church who cheated on his wife with a 14 year old girl, and now he’s blaming HIS WIFE because she left the church after they got divorced.
One million percent. I am convinced that most “Christians” nowadays are in fact, “Paulians.” They have forsaken the red letters of Christ in favor of a false gospel made up by a misogynist, hateful man who usurped the good news.
„Im not this way because of patriarchy or bigoted choices. I’m this way because that’s the way the highest power in the universe made me. No personal accountability or self reflection needed here.“
They like to hear some “wrath of god” but it’s definitely only if that wrath is directed towards like women who wear revealing clothes and not if that wrath holds men accountable
Gods forbid you bring up hard truths like the long and throughly documented subjugation and oppression of women and other marginalized groups, the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd get awfully emotional then.
As a woman who was raised Catholic, I was taught that I was never going to go to heaven unless I was subservient to my future husband, unless I pushed out babies, unless I gave myself over to a man completely, and that I was inherently dirty for having a period, or taking control over my body. And I didn’t even go to any crazy conservative churches. That is base line traditional religion. Let’s not pretend that Christianity isn’t built off of the hatred of women (don’t get me started on Eve). Let’s not pretend that Christians didn’t burn women at the stake for the implication of them being anything different.
Grandma was catholic, had a child out of wedlock and wasn’t allowed to get married in the chapel but hidden behind the chapel, her friend who did the same had her father donate $$$ and was treated totally differently so my grandma left
I was "raised" by Jehovah's Witnesses. I remember once as a kid this Catholic girl tried to start a fight w me when she found out my family was JW and made a big thing about the beliefs, but it was like hon you got waaaaay more in common with me than not... XD;;
Will you speak against Islam too? or are they too scary for you? Got to always be edgy and hostile against Christianity, except when there Is a real dangerous religion that could harm you.
Anyone heard pastors/priests making questionable clothing rules on women? Like i have heard a pastor say that women should cover their shoulders, arms, not wear jeans. I didnt know how to react to that....
@@Delphi43 this was also a big part of being in church. I remember being told as a literal child once at this church camp thing where we played SOCCER during the SUMMER (in the heat) that me wearing a tank top was inappropriate because everyone could see my shoulders. I was like 8? at the time I thought it was because I took off my camp shirt because I got hot, now as an adult I realize that they were sexualizing a literal child.
It’s the slow realization over the course of my life that far-right institutions protect predatory men. Not only the church, but the police force and entertainment industry as well. It was hard enough speaking out about me and my friends’ abuse without the church being involved, but the LAPD hardly did a thing even though he was targeting underage girls.
Forreal. And not just ‘far right’. In the so called ‘US’, it is essentially all institutions because the foundation of the ‘country’ is based in genocide, slavery, and predation by abusive bigoted mostly men.
☹ It sucks, doesn't it... I have hope that as more leftists get into power, the more the institutions will change to finally stop protecting those men. I hope both you and your friend have long and peaceful lives. You both deserve that much.
You are so brave for speaking up. I'm so sorry that law enforcement failed you (the way it fails so many of us), but the more we speak up, the harder it will become to ignore what is happening. People don't realize how pervasive these issues are and how accepted they are in certain spaces, communities, and families. Every time a survivor tells their story, I have to believe we get a little bit closer to creating a safer world.
I think religion is our biggest obstacle in the way of progress and advancement. Pretty much all church members are praised for showing a lack of critical thinking skills. "Faith" is considered a good thing, but it just means a person has decided to stop thinking rationally and let someone else tell them what to believe.
Predatory men seek positions of power. That is why these institutions protect them -- one of their own. More women need to be politically active and hold powerful positions, only then can women and young girls enjoy safty and freedom of their own.
“They (women) have been a crucial force in missionary work and volunteering” by that he means “we’ve been able to exploit their labor for hundreds of years and now it looks like they’re over it. What gives?”
Ah, but he was the husband of the Church! And he was God, and God is the Father! But in reality I'm pretty sure they're just trying to use religion as a tool of control, and for that it's easier to force people to fit into a specific mold according to their gender assigned at birth, especially if these molds lead to the production of new followers.
I would think context would matter, yes? Time and place. At any old random church, yeah, it's odd. But most college campuses do have space for use for religious organizations (student community centers based on creed or denomination, and chapel in some cases. The same is true for most hospitals) And just historically, most of the Jesus Freak portion of the hippie movement Were kids. Teens and twenty somethings.
I am a single mom of two girls. I have always told my girls if any religion represses any one or gender it is a CULT, NOT RELIGION. Church should preach LOVE NOT HATE.
you tell me it's my entire life's purpose to be completely submissive and dependent on someone else and are surprised I would rather pursue an education/career and an equitable relationship? hello.
@@caitlinweiss8801 I am 50 and there are NO good churches.. the so called "non denominational" churches are just fundie mega churches.. their music sucks the people are BORING and suck their politics is god awful, pardon the pun, and getting worse...such dorks they say weird stuff like they did in the article about girls and skirts.. that's what happens forcing guys too be stupid celibates...NO reason to be celibate if its not what you feel..I will NEVER return until the right wing conservative BS is marginalized.. that will never happen in my life.. I'm 50.. they went from ok and reasonable a while back to what it became now..eff the church..
The most praised and valued woman in the Bible was a VIRGIN who gave birth. How can any woman live up to that standard? I always think about that. We “ate the apple” and if we are mothers, we cannot be virtuous as virgins. We were set up to fail in Christianity. Please no hate, just my opinion.
I think you hit the bull's eye with misogyny problems with Christianity. Women can never be good enough from the get go, no matter how hard they try, they can never live up to some impossible standards
Catholic care more about Mary than Christians. And in the Bible I only seen the caring of a women’s virginity is BEFORE marriage, it states both male and female should be virgins . The Bible wants us to be mothers and I’ve never seen any hate in the Bible for a mother. We were never supposed to be like many . Men READing the book made that all up. (If you even think the Bible is holy word) men are the ones who disregard women and especially mothers. But a agree things feel pretty sexist sometimes
Like my old church , protestant so no one cares of our opinions thinking we are shit and fake but , they were so good on reminding women how important they are and how god loves them and how important mothers are ect (they did the same for men too) but they did NOT leave out women and were quick to point out points in the Bible where women were important and how sin was no not just “eves aka women’s fault “
And even if we could live up to such a ridiculous standard, WE ARE BLAMED FOR SIN. Like the Bible says we ate the forbidden fruit and then “seduced” men into doing the same. Uhhhhhh…no.
My brother was my best friend for over 20 years, until he became a born again Christian. I'm both a woman and a lesbian, so our friendship ended right on the spot. He chose God over me and I still haven't quite recovered from that. If he thinks I should fundamentally change to be able to go to Heaven and thinks that women shouldn't even wear pants, I don't think we have much to talk about. Gee, can't imagine why women aren't interested in church anymore?
@starleaf-luna recently saw a video of a girl sharing her struggle of running to answer the door but she has pants on so she puts a knee length skirt over it to be modest....she had puffy sweat pants (hardly different from a skirt since it didn't not show form more than the skirt). I think methods of modesty and rules are insane. Its more of a mental game on what a person finds sexual. Which shows a lot about that person's perspective on others too. I know not everyone follows it to a t, but I can't imagine living like that lol my struggle is being dead naked and answering the door in a 2xl t shirt. Such a different life.
after 20+ YEARS??? how can ANYONE just choose to end that kind of sibling relationship, over something they like. JUST got into??? I'm so sorry your brother was so selfish, in the name of religion. Christianity shouldn't be like this. The thousands of years of people perverting scripture has been an absolute disaster for the religion. My own grandfather told me I was possessed by a demon, and that's why I was queer/trans. I hope peace finds you.
sounds like he wasnt choosing god over you, he was choosing being ignorant and staying in an echo chamber over his friendship im an atheist but even i know that god wants acceptance and empathy not... whatever your former friend did
I find that the “men like the “fear of god” sentiment” part of the article rings pretty false to me. These young men don’t like fearing gods punishment, they like being part of punishing others in the name of god
When I was a teenager, our church had separate youth groups for the boys and girls. One year, the girls did a fundraiser for an activity that our leaders had planned and we ended up raising double what we needed. Since the boys had already gotten to do a rock-climbing activity and a couple of adventure obstacle courses and we had only had one big activity that year, our group leaders had hoped that we could use the money to do something fun like the boys got to do. Instead of letting the girls keep the money that WE earned though, the church leaders gave it to the boys to fund a laser tag night. It's been ten years now and I still remember how upset every single one of the girls was when our group leader broke the news. It's not surprising to me now that 8/11 of those girls left the church eventually. There were so many moments like that that made it clear that the boys were valued more than the girls.
Well boycott the NBA then. Gather all those who play for the NBA and make them follow you. Don't play for the NBA, that way they won't have money to subsidize for women. Women will be unable to play, and you guys will be happy. Problem solved. You can keep your churches as well, you won't have to pay women to take care of it since there will be no woman anymore. What bliss ?
@MikeDonaldson-eh2ru women's Healthcare? You mean the non-existent Healthcare that we experience when doctors tell us that our pain is all in our head-- that Healthcare?
@@TypeOneg "women's healthcare" is also when you go to a doctor and they tell you they have no idea what's wrong because they've never cared enough to study women's bodies
@jaceyemerald I got secondhand mad on your behalf just reading this post! Why Why Why are men (obligatory not all men, or as I will henceforth call it “ONAM” :D so effing entitled and fragile - oh right because of people like everyone in society, including their mothers and pastors apparently treating them like they’re made of gold and girls are just there to procreate and serve them, sigh
this is so upsetting :( glad you're out of it now! me and all my sisters left church too because the church obviously saw women as inferior. My father had no sons, but we know that if he had one, he would've treated him better than us daughters.
it's correlates with the rising of male going deep in the "red pill" and manosphere and the rapid rise of male loneliness while more women rn choosing to be celibate and opted out of dating pool to pursue education and career etc. Hmmm seems like the problem is not women
@ryss335 it's not just to pursue education, it's also because most men still believe the only thing they need to give in a relationship is a paycheck. Only modern men also expect you to provide the paycheck and do ALL the work that relationships require.
@@fawnieeeexactly, imagine that the modern society forced us to have the responsibility of taking care of kids and ALL the "wife's duty" while also working a 9-5. All they have wanted is for us to became a maid, a therapist and a caretaker
@@ryss335I actually disagree on one of your points. While I do believe more women are able to be celibate or single, I think this is largely the minority. Women do not just have a greater choice not to date, but a greater choice to date whomever they feel they want to date. So I wanted to clarify that because of this sentiment. “Other Men/University/Work etc. did not take away all the women, women just did not choose you.” There are many women who pursue careers and are married or dating, and men have to realize that they have to be desirable more than covet a system that makes them necessary to a woman as a paycheck.
This is like my parents being like: “Why is my queer child, who we treated like shit when he came out, and who *never* had an accepting church in the 18 years he lived in our house, not Christian anymore? Why is he not interested in going to church with us anymore?” I wonder why…
literallyyyy lmao. i can’t wait to move out and have my family be shocked and surprised that i will be ghosting them the second i am financially independent. as if the word ‘homosexual’, literally what i am, was only used to mean something sinful and horrific and disgusting, only being whispered quietly between the adults as if it’s so wrong that even speaking of it was like cursing yourself.
There was a time when my pastor (and father) called two women to the front of the church to shame them because they had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. But I recently learned that one of the popular junior pastors had been caught cheating on his wife and preying on women in the church. Crickets. Has not been addressed, just brushed under the rug. The shaming, hypocrisy, years of feeling inadequate and inherently evil has taken a toll on my confidence, mental health and ability to make independent decisions. I'll have to spend years unlearning and rewiring my brain to finally heal from all this. I only go to church now cos I live at home. Once I am able to move out - that's it I'm done.
Wish you the best in life. Just remember, we are all equal, in eyes of law, and in eyes of the God (at least I heard so). Your opinions and your feelings are VALID! And you have every right to make choises for yourself. Because it is YOU who live with those choises and consequences, good or bad, not anybody else. And people who love you will understand ❤
It might help to join online spaces that see the world completely opposite of what you were taught. To help you realize that doesn’t have to be your reality and it’s okay if it isn’t.
bro.... why would your dad do that shit as a pastor? something about remove the plank in your own eye before you can remove the speck from someone else's eye.... like didnt jesus say forgive each other, help each other, serve each other? he never said shame each other. thats so crazy. from all stories in church that ive heard, being such a bad pastor right in the open for everyone to see and no one stopping that shit is crazy to me.
"the guys are just hungry" sounds nothing short of a threat veiled as a "warning" that women should make themselves available to losers who don't see us as people. Genuinely horrifying thing to say in the most subtly sinister way.
It sounds more like he's saying that these men are going hungry because they're incapable of providing for themselves without a woman in their life, which is rather pathetic and insulting to both women and men.
The day the church holds men accountable is the day I go back to church. 💀 it’s deadass NEVER a mans fault in church as i grew up in religion. The whole church can know a man is beating his wife and nobody says anything. Yet if a woman cheats on that husband the whole church will shame her.
The church turning a blind eye to domestic violence and even advising DV survivors to stay in those toxic marriages for the "sake of the family unit/ children" is why I left the church and won't come back.
Thats because pastors get that celebrity effect going for them, it's the women that will overlook things if a man can get them excited enough.......The men should be accountable as well but lets not place strictly on the men.
@@quintonmaldonado8368 Women aren't excited about being fucking beaten, you idiot. They are very well aware that they will lose all their social support and lifelong connections if they disobey their church. Women aren't complicit in their own abuse, they simply prefer to stay *alive* and ideally not entirely alone. The women who do choose to leave... the state of domestic violence shelters in the USA is in shambles and no-fault divorce is under attack. The blame is almost always on the men. Not all men, yeah, but somehow. Some fucking how it is always a man!
wasn't it just this year a man stood up during his graduation and told women they basically belonged in the kitchen using his religion as an excuse? Why would we want to stay in the church this year?
What's sad is how many women stay and go along with the sexism. I got 4 women in my family who agree with women submitting to husband authority (they're all abused for it, too).
Young men being more easily manipulated than young women by a community that often makes those young men feel empowered over said young women? I whonder why?
A few weeks ago I attended my grandpa's funeral at a Catholic Church. The deacon told me "you're so cute, why put all that metal in your face?" referring to my septum. I was less than a foot away from my grandfather's corpse. The audacity of some church dudes is insane.
My main problem with the "I just want a traditional woman" crowd is that most of them aren't prepared to be a traditional man in exchange. What they actually want is to sit around playing video games all day while someone else does all the work.
Exactly. Hypocritical man children. Traditional men who genuinely want traditional women, don't whine about it. They put their head down and get on with life until they meet one.
They want another mommy, but one that they can sleep with. That's what purpose many of them believe wives and girlfriends serve. To do things for them and nothing else.
They want to marry their mommies so they can live like how they lived in middle school. You know, where mommy brings you a snack after school and tells you that she cleaned up your room and did your laundry since it was such a mess etc.
What's worse is technically, "trad wife" was different back before the industrial revolution. Like, men had lots of chores too but all the industrial revolution did was automate men chores and give women more chores so the traditional trad wife isn't even that traditional or realistic . Even back then they noted women looking stressed as hell
Not much is traditional about "trad wives". They're well paid influencers who have created lifestyle brands that romanticize the way we never were as a society. Women who could afford to not earn money used women of color, children and poor white women as cooks, wet nurses, laundresses, etc. That is the way things actually were and in many ways, still are.
I rolled my eyes so hard at the stat about childless men wanting children more than childless women. Of course they do, when they don't have to take on any major physical or medical risks to procreate (assuming this stat primarily reflects cis folks). I also think that girls are so much more likely to be expected to babysit/provide childcare from a young age, and have a fuller understanding of how challenging parenting actually is, whereas men might have a rosier, less realistic picture of what raising children is like. [I don't think I should have to say this, but, NOT ALL blah blah blah. I'm commenting on the way we are socialized based on gender under the patriarchy, these are not universal truths, many people break these norms.]
100% in addition to the challenge of women tending to bear more of the responsibility of childrearing, it also historically costs them more as it impacts their bodies (if they birth) and their identity (as, especially in the US, it greatly impacts their ability to hold a job / have a life outside of parenting)
Yup. My knee-jerk response to all of these guys "hungering" for families is to ask what they're doing to help with or support children now? Are they volunteering in the nursery? Teaching Sunday school classes? Donating time/materials for children living in poverty? Or are they just basking in the daydream of a wife, two and a half kids and a picket fence which will never require anything more of him than working one regular 9-5 and also his cooking, cleaning, and laundry have all mysteriously ceased to exist as chores he needs to do.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 I was actually pretty much raised by my dad. He's disabled so my mom had to work. Unfortunately he's a minority of men who actually step up to raise their children. If only more people could be like him. He's not perfect and has his faults, but he did the best he could. I don't doubt him when he says that he wished he could be in my half siblings lives when they were growing up, and I can't imagine what it must've been like. Btw, he was born in febuary of 1965. He's almost 60 with family values stronger than a lot of these church going young men.
Yeah 100%. People *still* talking about how "we should allow women to be housewives" and shit. Like who's forbidding them? Did I miss a blink in human history where househusbands were the norm and women were the majority of breadwinners? Makes me so sick to my stomach how many men treat their supposedly beloved partners, then somehow have those expectations be kowtowed as "rebellious" in this modern age. But-! Some upside; I think I've started to recently see more and more men willing to actually parent their children! Usually I would see men with baby strollers only when accompanying the mother, but just today I saw FOUR fathers pushing the strollers just by themselves, fixing the baby's clothes and all! Genuinely warming my heart, to see even such small changes.
When I was 14, after I got baptized, my pastor told me to not let any man get in my pants, “even if he just wants to put in the tip”… it was such an uncomfortable and unprompted conversation, it made my parents wildly uncomfortable when I told them about it.
"men seek out harder truths" and "men feel like they're not immediately under suspicion in church" are such opposites. Like "I want the hard truth but if anyone tells me I have to be better I'm gonna loose it." Bro wut.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups and minorities, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished. I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups and minorities, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished. I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished. I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
Women held a lot of power in history than popular or school version of it teaches. They usually acted in the background arranging marriages and poisoning enemies. Not at flashy as leading men to war but still pretty important
The monetary value of uncompensated labor performed by women globally is worth $11 trillion. And that's if the women and girls were paid minimum wage. - Oxfam & ILO
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495id be interested in what you mean. What specific power did they hold historically. I fear you’ll say something about women’s power being their influence on men with power…. Which is not power. I’ve heard many people argue that case before. But if power relies on pleasing someone who holds the actual power… that’s clearly not power.
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The men can date each other then if they got so much to say
I mean... Jesus ate, lived, and slept with 13 other men, full time. You tell me how that sounds. I don't want to use the word polycule, but I can't think of another word for it.
Nah, we don't want these guys sis. There's already enough of them sneaking around. They can . . . take the Church and whatever they decide to do inside.
@@swearv3396I don't think that's what they are saying AT ALL. I think they are commenting on the cis hetero male loneliness epidemic and how men complain women won't date them (while they refuse to do any self improvement or go to therapy or learn good hygiene) so they should just date each other platonically (or not, maybe some are bi or haven't come out yet) and leave us women alone.
I was a Christian that turned to Paganism because they don't view women as property but as a free being. Plus it's far more fun, interesting, healing, and engaging.
That may be true of modern Neo-Pagan rivals, but if you research the polytheistic religions that Christianity displaced from Europe and the Mediterranean you'll find they tended to be quite a bit more misogynistic than Christianity ever was. Early Christianity was often a refuge that women sought to free themselves from a much more male dominated wider society. There were more than 3 women for every man in the church for the first few centuries, whereas most other cults at the time were mostly (some entirely) male. The idea of becoming a Nun was basically invented by women looking for a religious excuse not to enter the marriages that their fathers had arrange for them.
@@CKLee-rs4kl They're too prosperity driven in the worst way. In Paganism and witchcraft, it's just about having what we need and more to give away to those in need. I've been treated better by non-Christian men. They've been very community oriented which is what we need in this toxic world.
Breaking update on the leopard loneliness crisis: leopards are lobbying the Supreme Court to rule in favor of allowing face eating to be taught in schools. Opponents say it's discriminatory towards women who disagree with having their faces eaten.
The juxtaposition of “Men are attracted to harder truths” and “men are coming to the church because it’s one of the only spaces that doesn’t criticize them” is sending me
Seriously! My ex was one these kind of guys that wanted “the harder truth” but couldn’t even make time to go seek out God on Sundays cuz he was “too busy working” (he would sleep In until 11:00 am after staying up till 2:00 am rewatching LOST for the ninth time and reposting dank memes that went against good Christian values)
My father cheated on my mom with at least 3 different women from church, as well as kicking out his 16 year old son for being gay. Family has since separated from him but he still thinks he did nothing wrong because he immersed himself harder into the church afterwards. That man has done nothing but make people miserable his entire life and yet still is told he's a great person at church. Having long since forgotten the spiritual part of his religion, all he has left is spreading his hate on to unwilling people. Never having to face his faults, or do a deep personal introspection into how he broke up the family for some quick hook ups. He is the picturesque representation of a coddled man who never looked deeper into the mirror because he never had to. The church and religion still protects him and his fragile ego.
This comment presupposes that men believe all criticism of themselves is true and by rejecting it they are knowingly avoiding truth. This is obviously ridiculous, but it is required to be what is going on in order for this comment to be anything other than muddled nonsense. There's no juxtaposition between accepting what you believe to be hard truth and rejecting what you believe to be slander. The fact it "sends you" is a testament to a lack of critical thinking. The men are engaging in perfectly normal behavior. The bizarre thing here isn't the men, it's your weird inability to see things from their perspective.
I think Rhett put it best when talking about why young people are leaving the church. Parents raised their kids to read the Bible. And when they did, they realized what the church was saying wasn’t what Jesus was saying.
Exactly why I left. When I got to high school and we fully read through the Bible for the first time, I realized it had so many contradictions, and preached so many things I didn't want to be a part of. What really solidified it was when we did a whole unit on "proving" God exists, and I tore apart all the reasons in my head with five minutes and a crumb of critical thinking
That. part. One of the main trigger for my deconversion was the idea that Christ calls the weary to "rest" by his side, while my experience with being a genuine believer was 24/7 mental, emotional and physical exhaustion. (That plus the idea, that "heaven" would mean listening to Hillsong's songs surrounded by racist w. evangelicals for all eternity. Good music and drag queen shows sound way more fun, let's be honest!)
Going to church as a kid was what started me on my path to atheism 💀 the amount of hypocrisy going on in the preacher’s lectures confused little me so much
I don't get it either. A bunch of these 'harder truths' is 'you are owed deference just for being male.' The other 'hard truths' are 'if you just ask forgiveness using the right words there should be no consequences.' I've always felt a chunk of the Christian religion is some guy saying 'hey, I'm not the a-hole, god is telling me to be an a-hole!'
I went to catholic school, and in elementary school there were 30 kids in my class, 8 of them were boys, the rest girls. The way those boys were treated vs the girls even tho they were the minority was CRAZY
Then went to an all girls catholic hs that preached women empowerment and girl power etc, then turned around and lectured us about laying and sitting certain ways around campus in our skirts bc of the male teachers being uncomfortable or whatever. There were maybe 10 men who worked at the school lol.
@@Brookeetrout Your second comment makes me absolutely sick...Harkens back to my, nonreligious middle school, "NO SPAGHETTI Strap tops!" "too distracting for the boys". Oddly enough also having a rule about shorts having to be at middle finger length when you put your arms on your sides. As if some of us girlies (me) didn't have long arms despite our short stature😑😑😑😑
@@Brookeetrout Isn't there literally a bible verse about how if someone's presentation offends someone that much, they can pluck out their eyes if they wish to not see it? Maybe those dudes could lead by example.
@@lilygone66When I was in high school, I was really hot (mind you it was a southern summer) and I took my hoodie off. I had an old lady completely flip out and tell me how inappropriate it was for me to show my spaghetti straps and made me put my hoodie on again. 😅
bro the pastor at the church i’m forced to attend literally married his wife when she was 15 and he was 30 smth. and that man always brings up falling for other women but not giving into temptation bc of god… it really makes me feel bad for his wife 🙃
Like How did these lame as men EVER convince women that the knew more, was more righteous and should be in charge of everything when they so obviously are weak, projecting there own shit on to everything and can not see anything els then their own ass🙄😂
Oh my god, how do they just accept this? 15? Do they know they can go to another church without a cheating pedo? What’s the draw? I’m curious if you’ve asked why your parents stay? Probably because the marriage was “a long time ago?” And I’m guessing the women are blamed for the temptation. What about sermons about helping the needy, you know the good stuff Jesus did (as I was taught. I think there’s a higher power but the bible has been rewritten, poorly translated, anything written by women taken out…the book itself history is pretty wild. But it’s basically a tool for control. Men are everything, women create life but they’re not important. I saw a video of a preacher admitting to adultry. Then a girl got up and the adultry was him raping her as a teen in his office. The congregation rallied around her and were disgusted. Then the preacher got up and started whining…and they then rallied around him hugging him. The girl left with her companion without anyone noticing. It was so horrible. So many are just manipulative con artists. How do people just switch within minutes? So sad. I’m sorry you have to go. One day you’ll be free to make your own choices.❤
Whenever priests DO marry or have kids…it’s always with someone like 20 years younger who they effing baptized it’s so disgusting to me. And the same pattern is seen across all Christian churches, preachers pick child brides…almost like, men. 👀
I grew up super conservative Christian and tried to have this conversation with so many male leaders that I looked up to and respected. It was like talking to a brick wall. They would say things like, "I'm so sorry. It's not supposed to be this way. Male leadership is about love, not dominating others." They couldn't wrap their minds around the concept that I fundamentally could not develop and thrive with an awareness of being restricted. To them, it was not my situation (restricted social status, loss of will to future husband) that was the issue, but their tone (be kind instead of harsh). They didn't see me as a person with innate drive, talent, ability, but as a WOMAN, and their model of what they owed to women was: affection. To them, it was enough to soften the message and keep me in a cage. For me, the cage was always the problem, not whether they talked to me sweetly or harshly through the bars. I left and they still say they don't understand why.
Oh this resonates hard. I got told over and over that even though women are not meant to be leaders, they still serve very important roles, etc etc. Like the problem isn't tone here, it's the fact that you're still preaching that women are subservient. No matter how much you soften the message, the message is still misogynistic. No matter how kindly you say it, a golden cage is still a cage.
As a 55 year old woman, who was raised in the church, I never liked hearing preachers who would describe women needing to support their husband's no matter what. And that men need to make the decisions in the family. It was always so frustrating to feel like I was less. I can totally see why women are leaving the church. I have to say, FINALLY!
Same. Men were supposed to "lead" but even as a child, I could see that I had better grades than them at school. It makes no sense to shut down women, when we have as much intelligence and wisdom to offer in leadership.
I have abandoned organized religion for the majority of my life. It really didn't interest me to be told we're all sinful, but because of your genitals you're actually wicked and subservient, etc etc. I then found my own way into faith, and that's how I like it. I simply realized how up for interpretations things are with religion, and how my interpretation really is just as "truthful" as anyone else's. (Like how it's told that man came first, then woman from the man. But if one knows biology, they could tell from that alone that it's the other way around! How woman is actually, physiologically speaking, the default. So it's very easy to accept now, that that's probably not the "reality" of how we were possibly created, but because the bible was written by men alone. Afaik at least.) Now I moved into a new area, with a smaller church that is very transparent about how they actually help the people in need, how many bags of food they have given out, etc. I decided to visit it. Even before they sent out the collection bag, they stated what the money will exactly be spent on this time around, and it was for some shelter this time. I can't recall having heard that in any other church! I always assumed that they're literally just for the church. I have also already vetted the cantor, and she's just super chill, isn't performative and truly tries to live for herself now, rather than for the expectations of others. I haven't vetted the vicar properly yet, but she too seems chill and actually welcoming already. Haven't yet heard anything about women having to be of service and whatnot... Fingers crossed! I really don't have the energy for people or institutes that just use any religion to serve themselves and to control others, especially when we're *supposedly* all supposed to be made equal in the eyes of God... Just thought I'd share, sorry it got this long haha. Definitely came with age that I learned that I simply don't have to take idiots seriously, no matter what collar they're wearing.
Gosh, you have witnessed so much with all the changes and struggles women have gone through! I think about my mom who would have turned 70 this year and the things she witnessed and the things she couldn't do even in adulthood (like own a business which wasn't allowed till I think 1983.) and it wasn't that long ago and we are still struggling so much and now going backwards! It's no wonder many of our mothers and grandmothers were telling us to get an education and not get married.
It was so crazy to watch my mom slowly become left leaning and feminist the moment she divorced my extremely conservative catholic dad. Both of us are still traumatized and healing (she nearly died birthing 6 children!) but I’m glad we made it out 🤦♀️
In church men are told that they're literally the voice of God in the household and that they're inherently more capable of complex thought and decision making than women, and yet church officials act super shocked when a bunch of dudes are down to sign up for that and young women aren't 😂
its ironic too considering that the female human is bioligically FAR more gifted naturally with reference to genetic traits we posses that men simply cannot (on average). this is due to the fact that females have over a thousand more genetic combinations and variations due to our extra x chromsome (xx) whereeas males only having one x. this is also a possible explanation for nuerodivirgence and sensory skills that far differ from others because we humans can actually have other pairs of chromsomes which CAN increase our x chromsomes up to five, for males they may have up to four x and two y. but most males remain with xy and and most females remain with xx (: pretty cool huh?
@@Waspinmymind thats literal data supported science, please do your part to ensure your arent speaking innacurately. if youd like soemthing to start with: the difference of polymorphic x-linked alleles among the sexes
@@breathoffreshair7795 that's pseudoscience and please don't respond tpo men's sexism and bullshit with ak chew lees about woman's inherent biological superiority, it's just not the case and it gets used a lot against trans people. Neurodivergence is explained by the x chromosome something something is not even a fringe belief; nothing you described is a commonly accepted conclusion and you sound like you're getting your summaries not from studies or textbooks but from fringe conspiracy websites. Even if part is true the conclusions simply don't follow.
It's not surprising at all. Churches have been legitemately traumatizing for women. My sister was called a witch and interrogated by the board of elders at 15 years old. They also accused her of sleeping around and spread lies about her. My mom was "exorcised" many times for having bipolar and had her past "sins" as a teenager hippie dragged out behind the pulpit many, many times. My dad blew up and disowned/was disowned by every one of me and my sister's, because he couldn't stand us getting boyfriends or just leaving home unmarried. He was mad at me because he didn't get to choose who I married. I've been to a lot of churches in my life and even the milder ones are very shame-heavy for women. It's not surprising at all that women are leaving the church.
What church was this? Not to hate on any in particular they’re mostly not great. But sounds like Mormon? I’m so sorry you all had to go through that. But I’m so happy you all escaped!❤
@@phoenixgirl70 We were mostly UPC (United Pentecostal) in the south, but did go to a lot of nondenominational, baptist, other churches around the country too. We left UPC when I was 16 but my dad hopped around to any church in the area for about 10 years, hanging out in a single church for maybe 6 months at a time before burning bridges and leaving. Me and my sisters also simutaneously attended a calvinist community church AWANA program for years. So my experiences are all pretty spread out, honestly.
My dad is a southern baptist preacher and has been my entire life. Grew up as a worship leader, very active in church, church camps etc. 20 years of my life spent watching the misogyny and injustices in the name of christianity occur weekly. I moved out and have since deconstructed the past few years. listening to my mom, the preachers wife, tell me what’s going on in church and what she endures is so heartbreaking because she will never be able to remove that veil in a sense. Leaving was the most freeing thing I have ever experienced.
10:26 even the language we use around marriage is so sexist. "Man, wife" Men get married and are seen as mostly unchanged, but a woman gets married and she's no longer an individual woman, she's someone's wife."
@@sma4827 It's like fruit in the supermarket. "Ripe to eat", "barely ripened", "Sold" etc. it just makes it sound like they are put into categories that show off their status of availability to potential prospects to make it easier for them to see if they can have the object of their desire or not. It's really weird.
I mean, the whole institution of marriage is the cornerstone of patriarchy, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet. I'd wish women at least kept their own name and would give the children THEY carry, birth and raise their own name.
Men: "We men are attracted to things that are difficult. We like harder truths." Also Men: **have absolute meltdowns and sometimes deadly outbursts of rage when a woman says they don't want to date him, or call out his bad behavior** Obligatory not all men, but enough for it to be an issue.
Seriously. Plenty of men got upset of hearing the hard truth that women would rather be around bears than men, and that's a hard truth they can examine and reflect upon. They won't though.
@@jenniferstorm4037it's enough men for it to be a stereotype tbh, not that the stereotype proves any kind of point about men on a fundamental level mind you, just that being an ass is kind of something they like to praise each other for
@@sammallory4773 For real. They acted really hysterical for no reason. 😂 I think they are way more protected from ‘hard truths’ than women are. We protect their feelings *way* more and that incident demonstrated that perfectly.
It makes me laugh so hard when pastors and extreme religious people attack men who have longer hair, or wear more feminine clothing, or act meek/timid or kind. JESUS WAS ALL OF THOSE THINGS 💀🙏 he had (at least how most people believe he looked like in the paintings and stuff yk) long hair, wore a robe (they all did, pants weren’t even rly a thing for centuries to come), and IN THE BIBLE was described as meek, mild, and timid, and his WHOLE ASS MANTRA was that he was a super nice guy who died for everyone’s sins. Genuinely shut tf up about that shit dawg 😭
he also was most likely a short king too which is even better. people (christians) believe that jesus was this perfect leading white man that everyone should aspire to be when bro was actually a brown, homeless, shaggy communist. also, i saw a comment a bit ago that said that jesus probably already had his second coming but was killed by the same people who believe in him most due to their twisted perception of christianity and the bible.
i mean jesus was anything but timid. he’d openly stand up to religious leaders, flipped tables of merchants in the temple. he stood on business in a time period where it was a death sentence to stand up to religious authority (and he was killed for it)
@@cupdog_spl stop calling short men short King you are acting like being short is a disability. I'm pretty sure fat women don't like being called fat queen they don't even like called fat forget about being called fat queen. I never heard anyone referring a tall man as tall king or anything like that. Also Jesus mabe short by today standard but he was definitely average in his timeline. At this point everyone know Jesus isn't white. We aren't living in the 90s it's pretty obvious a middle eastern man can't be white
One of my favorite things I've ever seen was a Christian pamphlet dropped off at our door, and it had this great illustration of Jesus but he had the short, modern, businessman looking haircut....They were trying to market a more modern looking Jesus, but still in his robes ofcourse. It was amazing. I love business Jesus.
Brilliantly said! As an older woman who was raised in a strict church I feel finally vindicated that women are now re-thinking the church in general. You have such a strong voice and it gives me hope for the future of this country. This was the video we needed!
it's somehow surprising to me that christians needed an extra *60 years* past the second wave feminist movement to start realizing "oh this shit is actually bad BAD for women huh?"
@@mammajamma4397 It will never happen because Christianity is inherently misogynist and patriarchal. The source materials are wrought with both. There's no redeeming it tbh
The men in these churches are about to get a crash course in how much the unpaid and taken for granted work women did actually kept the organisation running now they’re not showing up to do it any more.
I think that we, women, tend to be more liberal cause we want the same kind of freedom that men have. Freedom to do whatever we want with our bodies without having to live with the constant guilt that the church and religion perpetuate. Having said that, Im happy to live in a moment in history in which men can't control us as they used in the past.
Our current freedoms are rightly attributed to liberalism. It’s basic self-preservation. But they expect us to put our own needs to the side in order to advance their interests.
@hollisblackwood3276 55% of Christian women go to church that far exceeds men if anything the church caters to the women not the other way around Christianity is the only religion in America that has more female attendances than men
This man at my church got caught messing with a 17 y/o. The Psstor was furious. Turns out the man had been grooming & etc that particular girl for over 4 years. 2 deacons came forth saying they caught him with their child (separate situations). They each told him if he left their child alone they would not call the police. That allowed him to walk free for years. The girl of course would not testify that it lasted years and the wife cleared what she found. The entire church disbanded after this. So many elders in the church knew he was praying on minors but lied to save face.
Dude when I was a toddler I went to chuch with my grandma in rural kentucky. was the only coloured kid, and they kept me in a crib in the hallway instead of letting me play with the other kids because the parents complained about me "infecting" their kids. I WAS LIKE 4.
That is so disgusting! I don’t know what the hell is wrong with people. Some people have more melanin than others. Period. Imagine if they actually talked to these people and see they’re just the same having the same loves and have the same worries (actually more!) I know it’s taught but the church should be correcting that hate! Especially because Jesus wasn’t white! What a great thing it would of been if those kids got to be friends with you growing up and see their parents were wrong. Excluding a child from playing with others in church is just plain evil.
as a teen girl who had recently come to the conclusion that the church does not reflect my values it is incredibly tiring hearing men pondering why women are not going to church and coming to the conclusion that they have weaker faith or need the spiritual aid of a male leader (REAL THINGS IVE HEARD) tbh the reason I no longer call myself a Christian is because I was tired of constantly getting messages from the pulpit that I am of the weaker sex who's greatest achievement is motherhood. I'm tired of never seeing a women pastor my church. I'm tired of messages being written for men with women being mentioned in the footnote. Idk pisses me off
When I hear all this, I really wonder why men think of themselves as the rational ones. Not able to simply observe what is actually happening and draw a conclusion out of reliable data.
Good for you! I'm in Europe (a more conservative part of Europe, in fact) and reading the comments here truly feels like a window into 100-200 years ago, how women are treated. I'm relieved to know there seems to be a big awakening going on for women. Hope it spreads far!
"why play misogyny roulette" is exactly it. im not religious anymore but in college i literally WANTED to be. some of that was probably just to please my parents but I thought oh now i'm on my own and not living with my parents, I can find a better church that's more normal, and they wouldn't even know. but then the process of actually doing that, of subjecting myself to the misogyny and homophobia just on the chance there might be some normal people there, was extremely offputting and i gave up almost immediately
I think there are sites like Inclusive faith that list queer friendly churches if you want to attend still. I'm not religious but I hope you find what you are looking for! Best of luck :)
The church is the people. You’ll like some, you won’t like others. Some of those people can create a culture that affects the whole church as a whole, and if it’s not a biblical, you want to avoid it. Church hopping is honestly a sport. You just have to find a church that is Bible based, and where you feel comfortable learning :)
Oh based on the bible thats full of slave owning, saying sodemy is evil, women should marry thier rapists etc etc? Yeah im sure a queer person (or anyone with real morals) can enjoy a space like that! c@@TheNinjapancake14
@@TheNinjapancake14 Exactly what I came to say. I was raised greek orthodox, then had an atheistic phase and currently consider myself a taoist curious about all religions. I tried going to orthodox church again and while I loved the art, hymns, general atmosphere and the priest was extremely captivating and informative the people where not it. It's all love thy neighbor until the queer kid in a midi skirt with hairy legs walks in. Next church I attended the priest stopped mid service to read a bigoted letter from a higher up and he was so boring the entire congregation was checked out well before it. Anyway will be attending a different church this sunday.
I’ll never forgot how I wasn’t invited to my youth pastors’ wedding but they still expected me and the other young girls to come babysit for free during their reception 🙄🙄🙄
Not your typical commenter on this video (I’m not a Christian) but I feel the EXACT same way about Islam, which is why I left. I was born into it and it was shoved down my throat at every waking moment. Especially after Andrew Tate converted to Islam and gave more Muslim men a reason to act extremely shitty to women. People will yell left and right about how fair and empowering Islam is for women but then in every comment section of a Muslim woman there will be HUNDREDS of comments telling the woman to cover herself up properly or her not wearing hijab properly when she is entirely covered up. So glad to be done with it
Is there anybody in the muslim faith who seriously thinks it`s fair and empowering to women? I mean I would find it hilarious if it wouldn`t be so horrifying to me when people say that. I had muslims making that argument to me, do they seriously believe this?
@@anthill1510 I think they're too brainwashed and fearful of God to accept the treatment of women. Their book tends to write so called beautiful words about women, but they don't realize it's to distract them from the truth.
Like HOW do people not grasp that having the wrong people in your life will lower the quality of your life SIGNIFICANTLY more than you just minding your own business, loving your pets and exploring your interest being single. Do they not know how shitty people can be?😂😂
Thinking about how many more women from previous generations would have left the church if they had the choice and if they had a say in it, but couldn't
Yeah when no fault divorce didnt exist, no abortion rights, no right to their own bank account without their husbands permission, reduced access to the work space and day care to support their already existing children.
Exactly. I always wish we could’ve started this movement earlier until I remember women weren’t even allowed to have their own bank accounts until fucking 1970 💀
This is the first time I have seen your channel. What an astute, bright, young man you are. I am 72 and stopped going to church when I was in my late 30's and unmarried. I knew all these things wayyyyy back then, and after I left, never missed it and became a much stronger person. The pity and disdain came from women even more than men. I am so glad young women are so much wiser these days.
If he existed, he would have been a brown, Asian, Jew who advocated for getting money out of religion, paying taxes, total pacifism, and giving away all of your worldly possessions. They would skip the slurs and go straight to another crucifixion.
I grew up fundie evangelical and boy i could not be more pleased to learn that women's attendance is down since i left. Time to go back and rescue the men! Life is so much better out of dogmatic, shaming religious circles. Also Jesus was a soft boi who hung out with sex workers and other outcasts. He did not have an AK 47 or a podcast about gender roles 😂
No frrr these people do not read the Bible they claim to follow. Heck, one of the tennents is that only God can judge but they like to ignore that and judge people lmao
I left the church when I saw a bunch of women washing their husbands feet during a part of the service, and if you weren’t married they would simply direct a woman to bathe some strange man’s feet. The pastor wanted me to bathe a man’s feet who was easily 20 years my senior. I flat out refused and informed the pastor that unless the feet belong to Jesus it ain’t happening. At the age of 16, I left the church and chose a more spiritual relationship with God, that excluded the church.
It’s kinda ironic that in the Bible, it was Jesus that did that for other people. Aka. Wash people’s feet. Jesus did an act that was considered so low by the culture of the time, that it was only given to women. Jesus didn’t mind acting like a woman. He didn’t see it as being lesser than because he didn’t see women as being lesser.
This comment thread is WILD. I checked out of Christianity in childhood (the stories of Abraham and Job did it for me-- I was like "wtf" and my teachers were like "cope"), and I've avoided church ever since-- luckily my parents were very lax. So it BLOWS MY MIND that this kind of mental abuse, discrimination and denigration is happening to THIS MANY PEOPLE, AS THOUGH IT WERE NORMAL. I know church members are only human, but the things commenters are describing are so twisted. My dad, who suddenly got religion in old age (surprise) is sincerely and desperately trying to get me to accept Jesus and I don't get why he can't understand that I am not interested in anything his god is offering, because why would I be? If a man treated me like God does (egotistical, jealous, telling me I'm nothing without him, telling me I'm intrinsically dirty and inferior, telling me it's ok to do the vilest things as long as I say sorry, punishing me arbitrarily and telling me I have no right to question it, threatening me with boundless torture unless I obey him, demanding 24-7-365 gratitude for everything he's ever given me, demanding total submission and telling me that's LOVE) my dad would tell me to run a thousand miles from a relationship like that! So why doesn't he recgnize the psychological abuse when it's coming from "God"?
That is sickening. I'm now agnostic athiest but no where in the bible was that encouraged. It was Jesus who washed the feet of other people. Just another instance of the church twisting the words and teachings of the bible. Good on you for refusing!
I was a social media manager for a church, and I was basically the only young woman in the staff and congregation. The pastor had a nb furry grandchild though, and they were pretty well accepted, despite the church being united methodist. Rock on furry child.
funnily enough the United Methodist church is one of the most welcoming as a whole compared to most other denominations (welcoming to lgbt+ marriage and pastors, divorce, etc)
What kills me is that in religions like the extremely evangelical ones I grew up in *know* that kids will gain a broader understanding of the world once they get to college and will realize how narrow the perspective they grew up with is. Instead of using this as a sign that these Evangelical religions should modernize and change, they instead start preaching against higher education. I no longer identify as a christian and when I ran into someone I grew up with and told them that in conversation she teared up and said "this is why my mom told us not to read all those books like what you read!". Like my dear that is not the win you seem to think it is. If your religion can't stand up to basic education, you should very much rethink your religion.
I really appreciate that! I've been deconstructing my faith this year and even though logically it makes so much more sense and is so much more freeing as an agnostic, I still have this lingering feeling that I somehow failed because I "lost my faith." As if it's my own fault for learning more and realizing the religion wasn't what it claimed to be.
@@thepockethaven I don't think you ever lose faith. I think you lose religion. You can feel faith even without religion. Faith is doing the hard thing because it's right. Faith is helping someone unselfishly simply because they need help. To me faith isn't something that needs to be invested in a higher power, it's a choice we make daily. It's choosing to be kind, to be selfless, to invest in yourself and your community for the good of everyone. Faith is planting a tree knowing you'll never get to sit in it's shade. I don't know if god exists, but if I was to label anything as "divine" it would be hope and faith.
Education is the ultimate antithesis of the conservative Evangelical worldview. It's also why there are so many Evangelical colleges, because Evangelicals can safely be sent off to get a higher education while still removing what they don't like so no one can pop their little bubble of beliefs.
@@lilykep well put. Sometimes religious institute and the bible itself is bullshit because suprise surprise they were written and enforced by men in power and use religion to control others.
It’s insane. As a person who believes in God, I can say that what you’ve experienced is religious and spiritual abuse. If a religion or group of people in said religion doesn’t want you to think for yourself then it’s abusive. I’m so so sorry you’ve experienced that and I hope you’re healing and happier now ❤❤
At the age of 17, my church’s youth group decided to have student-led branches of the youth team. They wanted a drama department, so with 10 years of theatre experience and being the only long-time and regular member who was even remotely interested in theatre, I thought I was the obvious choice. They put me in troupe and put a boy in charge. Not only was my family the entire reason he even started attending that church *the year prior*, he was in the acting class that I taught at our homeschool group. I had directed him in two plays by that point. I walked out when he asked me to warm up the group. I got tired of watching him try to remember rules for the games I had taught him. It drives me up a wall to this day.
This is insane and shld be shared w as many believers as possible. The standards for men are in the gutter and the fact they can’t keep up is their fault and the fathers that supposedly shepherded/raised them into adulthood!!
I remember in youth group the leaders being horrified when I matter of factly said that I was a bad person and didn’t deserve anything good to happen to me. Like - that’s what you guys had been teaching me since I was five. I’m not sure people who haven’t experienced it themselves can understand the peace you gain after leaving church and no longer feeling intense guilt and shame for existing. Even with the narrative of “Your shame is gone with the forgiveness of God! But we will also never let you forget that you SHOULD feel shame. And nothing about you is good.”
One of the most staunchly atheist people I know is a woman who grew up absolutely infatuated with her religion, Mormonism. Then she turned 16 and expressed her want to be a leader in the church and help promote it. They laughed and told her marrying well and having children was how she promoted the church. They push their own away🤷
That sounds like a bad case of “ahead of her time.” I think there was a better way to handle the situation than replying with THAT. And using the word “promote” that way totally undermines how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints operates. Leadership in the Church doesn’t come with better income, more power, or better standing with Heavenly Father. It just means you can handle more and are therefore given more responsibility. And treating that stewardship well obviously comes with rewards. This is available to both men and women.
It doesn't matter if LDS church leadership uses these words or not, because it IS the reality. Women and girls are chattle and breeding stock. Only fit to submit. Boys do survival skills while girls only learn pretty homemaking skills. Screw gender based determinism. Never going back
@@joshuahamilton7630who is this woman. Wld love to see her content. There another female YT that talks abt Mormonism and it is astonishing what those women/communities go through! Learned so much. But not putting that group down because it mirrors what u see women go through all over the world (regardless of their faith)
I think it really depends on the congregation. When I turned 16, I was asked to serve as the president of my class. A class that was only me there every Sunday, and occasionally one other girl my age would show up. The leader of our congregation is called a Bishop, and the Bishop's wife came up to me after Church and told me my testimony wasn't strong enough to be a leader. I was shocked. It felt like she slapped me across the face! Then I got angry. When my Mom got into the car, she saw how angry I was. So I told her what that woman had said to me. Mom was quiet for a second, then said, "Okay. You have a choice to make. You can just laugh at that woman and say, "wow, that says a lot more about her thinking it's okay to say something like that to a 16 year old", and then go on living your life authentic to how you feel. Or, you can let an imperfect person come between you and developing your relationship with Christ. The choice is yours to make." When she put it that way, I realized I could just lose respect for that woman and keep living my life how I wanted to live it. And I wanted to live it knowing God because I saw too often miraculous things happening to deny that He exists and is very much a part of our lives, whether we have eyes to see or ears to hear. Every now and again, my mother's words come back to me. It seems to me that the only thing imperfect humans can do perfectly is traumatize one another. There is so much trauma in the world, and I try really hard to be sensitive to people who have experienced religious trauma. I lived in Utah from Thanksgiving 2018 through August 2021, and that was the hardest experience of my life. But it taught me why diversity of thought and diversity of opinion and diversity of cultures is so vitally important!!
Ppl who are attracted to "harder truths" and "toughness" are ppl who usually who benefit from the harder truths or are advocating for the suffering of others. The minute truth gets harder for them, the minute they start to whine.
But also some people have low self esteem. Lots of “manosphere” rules tells men they’re worthless unless they’re handsome, have money, etc, so these guys believe that they’re worthless. But to them, having a system that tells them their exact value is more comforting than accepting that the world isn’t rigid and doesn’t have a system that tells people their worth. They’re emotionally lazy so they’d rather know their place in a black and white world than take on the unpredictability of a gray and nuanced reality. That’s why they need to believe in misogynistic stereotypes so badly, because if women aren’t just going to automatically be shallow towards them because of the situations they were born into, that would mean they’d actually have to put in EFFORT and HOPE into bettering themselves to find a girlfriend, but they’d rather not have any hope so their feelings don’t get hurt.
@@Petrichorus- I agree but not completely. Mostly bc I'm not talking only about misogyny. They're not really taking into account race and other factors. The experience of a Trans Latina immigrant is very different than the experience, and earnings, of a white cis man. Yes, all men, including white men, are seeing their safety nets disappearing and they lack good role models. However, let us not ignore that they are still doing better than most other people. Even if they don't get into college they have more opportunities simply for being men and/or white. Some of the rage is that they feel that they deserve more. They want the Drake lifestyle without being Drake. I do think that low self-esteem makes men vulnerable to radicalism. However, I don't thank all hatred towards women or minorities stems from low self-esteem. Still, I do think you bring a great point. What you say is true.
@@tramasrarasoddplots oh yeah, definitely. Not everyone who believes in this stuff has low self esteem, like you said I feel like most cases come from entitled men who are too full of themselves. I wanted to express that their systems are so predatory that even if men suffer the side effects too, they’re more willing to uphold patriarchy, racism, and radicalism because it’s what they know and makes sense to them.
@@tramasrarasoddplots “they want the drake lifestyle without being drake” is such a good way to put it. They want the access to women that rich and attractive men have, and feel entitled to benefit from women and other races while boxing them into a life of poverty and less opportunity as a collective (unless they appease WS) all while bringing NOTHING to the table and being unlikeable nobodies. You said all that in 8 words. Thanks
Growing up, it was mostly women who volunteered and supported the church. It really shows how the “virtuous woman” ideal has harmed women in the church. Nowhere in the Bible does God put women down-there are guidelines for both men and women, yet the stricter ones for men are often ignored. At a friend’s wedding, the pastor’s message felt like a slave contract. The bride, who was clearly going to be the main breadwinner with her education and career, was told she had to obey her husband, who would make all the household decisions. It was strange to watch such a smart, independent woman be reduced to a “wife” simply because he was a “good Christian boy.”
@@marielcolley5656 women have kept the church running for 2,000 years. There are letters written by Roman’s criticizing a local church because the leaders are two slave women. They really did an about face on that one
Sorry, but just because the book doesn’t explicitly call women names does not mean it doesn’t put them down. Paul tells a congregation in his letters that women shouldn’t speak in church. That she needs to be quiet and ask her husband to educated her at home. 😂 What role is that? Shut up and ask your man at home. Get outta here.
@marielcolley5656 you never read the Bible. The biblical marriage is a contract between two men where a man sells his daughter to another man in exchange for money or goods. And a man can take as many “wives” he can afford to maintain. So yeah, the ceremony you attended was what the men who wrote the Bible intended it to be.
As a black woman who used to be religious and saw a ton of older black womenfolk uplifting the Church, I wonder if the Black Church is also seeing that dwindling of attendance of womenfolk.
On the topic of church sort of selling suffering is interesting, men seek for meaning trough suffering while women just suffer. Historically and in a modern setting, often sex, birth, periods, physical violence, medical neglect etc. and, additionally work load and emotional labor in excess. I think women learn suffering is mundane and meaningless so having it glorified seams ridiculous, and then you realize only male suffering is supposed to be meaningful to these people, and that might.. you know, make women angry or at least disillusioned with religion.
I'm going to "Yes, and," you here. Yes, men find meaning in suffering, but I think a large part of that is men's suffering being part of the justification they use to maintain power. Like how men being drafted to serve in the military was used as a justification to withhold the vote from women, or just in general the whole vibe of "being a man means being tough and strong and emotionally invulnerable and even sometimes mean and cruel enough to maintain control and not let people take your job/land/women/power from you. It's men being tyranized by the patriarchy, basically. Meanwhile, women don't gain power over others through arbitrary suffering. The vote was never withheld from men because they didn't have period pains or have to go through labor. We never developed this cult of personality around how us being tough and stoic and violent meant we're the ones built to be in charge of everyone else. You know, "for their own good." For us, suffering is something arbitrary and unnecessary, or something that's being visited on us by those in power over us -- maybe even used as a justification for why we're too weak and helpless to exist out from under their control. So we don't even have that carrot to coax us into defending our own suffering to protect our own little slice of privilege. (With the notable exception of TURFS, who have this motivation and very much equate femininity with suffering and martyrdom for this exact reason.) It's not that women are more altruistic, it's just that patriarchy doesn't offer us that incentive, so for us suffering is generally much more easily recognized as an obstacle to dismantle.
Wasn't there that one scene in Fleabag where she talks to an older woman who says something similar? That women carry pain in their own bodies, while men don't, so they need to look for it elsewhere?
Kinda like all these boomers who beat and berated their children - and now wonder why they don't get access to their grandchildren. Your adult child is teaching you about consequences, Mr and Mrs Boomer. Remember how much you LOVED teaching your child about CONSEQUENCES?? You were right. It is important.
Boom! Then, when they hit you with "everybody was doing at the time", we can answer: "if your friend drives off a cliff, do you have to follow just bec. everyone is doing it"? 🧐
THIS. Church: follow Jesus and do what he said!! us: feed the hungry, welcome the immigrant, care for children, love everybody? Cool! So how about tax payer lunches for kids, supporting citizenship pathways for immigrants, voting for universal childcare, and unconditional love for my gay and trans neighbors? Church: *no*, 😡 not like that!!
The "harder truths' line made me eye roll inside. Christianity has the easiest fucking answers to every life problem - don't do anything even remotely outside of what we tell you to do, else you'll go to hell. But if you do something like that anyway, come back and tell us and we will forgive your sins and you'll be back on track to heaven again. My fucking god.
12:30 This reminds me of the one time a pastor brought up abortion and said something along the lines of abortion is worse than what Hitler did. No one looked like they were against what he said.
I grew up in a super accepting, progressive church, and even THAT wasn't enough to keep me in the church. I still felt compelled to leave b/c of the cruelty, hatred, & violence enacted in the name of christianity. it didn't matter that MY church & MY experience was positive; the individual good could never outweigh the corruption of the whole institution. so I left. I'm seeing this same experience more & more often; women that never personally experienced misogyny & violence in the church are still leaving in solidarity w/ those who have, b/c they understand those experiences of oppression & refuse to stay complicit. but most men don't. they don't understand the oppression. they don't (or refuse to) understand their complicity. so they're more likely to be comfortable staying in a corrupt system b/c it has almost always benefited them. which really scares me for the women still in the church, and the direction in which our society & government is headed.
This is exactly why I left too! My parents always went to very progressive places (for a church), but they still preached about women always being submissive (my parents talked me down for raising my concerns) and once had an entire sermon run by an organization about jailing SWs to preach to and convert in prison... Where they now have a worse record and are unable to leave... I think it's obvious why I had a huge issue with their methods.
Thank you for your solidarity. I grew up in an evangelical church that looked progressive from the outside but that was just the love bomb to get people in before telling them they should change who they really are or else they will go to hell. I'm glad that you got a much better experience and is still understanding and compassionate to people who did not have the same experience. Some people would rather wave the flag of "not all Christians" to force people to stay in toxic environments.
Yeah same and I don't even go to church that much. My experiences with religion and church aren't bad but I've seen time and time again how people use Christianity to harm marginalised communities, like women and especially queer women. As someone whose an aroace woman, I'd obviously quit Christianity when so much people choose it to force women into being maid baby machines for men.
They're shocked women are not interested in partaking in an organized faith system where they rank bottom of the hierarchy, whilst men who rank top, stay. Yes. How very mystifying indeed.
More women have faith- a sense of meaningful spiritual connection to others in the world. More men have religion- a set of rules to hold them to a way of living.
If by "hold them to a way of living" you mean they inact archaic ways of living on those demographics like women. Men will never actually follow their own rules.
Organized religion is ultimately the issue. No one cares if someone has religious beliefs, but the implementation of strict dogma to create a hierarchy of in and out groups has and still continues to oppress
It’s nice to know that someone gets it. Not too long ago I was around so many women who were proud to not be a feminist. I asked “it you have a body and/ or a paycheck, wouldn’t you like a say in what happens to them?” Being a feminist doesn’t mean you hate men. It means you respect yourself.
When I met girls who wouldn't call themselves feminist, I'd ask them, "Do you know what the word 'feminist' means?" And they never did. After we chatted a little further, it ALWAYS turned out that they were feminist after all, whether they wanted to admit it or not. I'm around a fair number of women who insist that they "just believe in" subservient practices like serving the man of the house (even sons) dinner before everyone else, or not contradicting their man in public, or hiding/downplaying the fact that their wage is higher than the man's. And all of them are single. All that subservient behavior did not even win them devotion-- a devotion that would be highly questionable and depressingly transactional even if they had it.
I totally believe that men wanna have children more than women do They can just decide to leave whenever they want, they wouldn't risk their lives or have a huge change in their bodies
@@fixcpuYT is an evil site that won't let you spread your opinions is a crazy take. Maybe you should look inward at why some of the things you may be spouting are not welcome in the communities you're participating in.
John 11:35 "Jesus wept" the shortest verse in the Bible yet it does so much to deconstruct the idea that Jesus was some macho alpha nonsense. And especially when you look at the context. He was crying because his female woman friend was crying! Like... So different from these macho men...
I think a lot of them probably grew up going to church (sports) camps like Kanakuk where they repaint Jesus as a rugged buff jock because they're trying to recruit young athletes as a revenue stream Its a whole weird thing that a lot of heavy hitters in the Christian fundamentalist circles are involved in
Yeah. Except i visited churches who are now redefining "humility" and "servanthood" in an alpha-male way. Literally defining "meekness" as knowing WHEN to "let loose" and when not to and comparing it to being a trained police horse... As if you needed more evidence of the patriarchy, some churches are literally changing the definitions of words because some stubborn men don't like it.
As someone who has recently decided to leave Christianity and organized religion, this whole "revelation" that women are leaving church is so funny to me. I didn't leave just because I'm queer and nonbinary, or even because I don't believe in God to an extent, but because most churches and most (traditional) Christians refuse to allow themselves to grow and progress along with our culture and society. Things are meant to evolve, and that includes religion and ideologies. Long story short, it's not that serious. Let the girlies leave the church if they want and stop pouting if you aren't going to make the church where the girlies feel safe enough to stay.
I agree. treating scripture as an excuse to uphold systems without allowing space to evolve them as we grow in understanding does not generally lead to a healthy community the core values of Christianity of loving, supporting, and caring for the larger community are great, but the limitations on what exactly that means without space for including the whole community in the conversation has led to a lot of harm
I have personally come to the conclusion that any god worth worshiping would just want me to be a good person. If a god cares about being worshiped, having a bunch of rules followed, rituals prescribed, and threats of hell and damnation, their probably not worth following even if they exist. 'Prove to me your god is decent' is a surprisingly high bar to hit if you haven't already started drinking the Kool aid
"More young men value the traditional family". "Childless young men want kids more than childless young women". Yeah, and I bet those two things are related. How much overlap is there between men who want women to do almost all of the child-rearing and also who want more kids? It's easy to have kids when you also believe you won't have to take care of them
one of my roommates is a lovely young Christian woman who recently has been taking church and religious studying really seriously. I'm not religious, but I have seen the genuinely great impact religion has had on her. her recent issues have been not finding a true Christian man (we are college students, and she attends church with young college men). every time she thinks she's found someone who will respect and uphold her beliefs, they quickly reveal themselves as not Christians, but just misogynists with an excuse. that's anecdotal, but I've seen the movement too.
Let her know that, if she truly wishes for a husband, may it happen some day, however, may she also know, there is no shame in being alone as, being alone means your entire sight is on God. Once you are married, your focus is on your husband or even your children. While one is single is the short time when one can do their all for God without the worries and burdens that come with a romantic relationship.
I feel like she’s so close to realizing the truth, but just keeps missing the bull’s-eye. Like they’re misogynistic for a reason-they read the same book
If she rlly reads the book then she must know it's a misogynistic religion. Literally says rapists should marry the woman they defiled. Plus all the slavery justification and such. You can have an airy fairy new age reading if you want. But the book is nasty and coated in blood
HAHA I’ve heard so many stories, including from people I’ve known personally IRL, who are Christian and looking to date a Christian man to marry, and they get SO Excited when a woman’s profile says they are Christian, or a virgin, or prefer a traditional lifestyle with a man, and their faces DROP when they realize that woman won’t sleep with them until marriage, and they actually have to be worth marrying. Like they expect to take their virginity and not even marry them 💀my brother (questionably) in Christ, what did you think was gonna happen? 😂
My grandmother decided to be come a pastor when she was in her 60s. She graduated and went to several churches and was scorned pretty frequently. She's incredibly left, she got angry when abortion was removed as a right, hates trump and adopts my brother's lgbtq friends and once told someone who was nonbinary that god has no gender and has used they/them pronouns. She's the best grandmother and i think the way christian should think to be. She has no hate and loves every single person.
See if people like your grandma were the people running the church, religions wouldn’t be dying out! Plenty of people enjoy religion but are forced out by something (most often prejudice). Most people become straight up atheist from a religious family due to trauma with religion. If the institution isn’t abusive this wouldn’t be a problem! And tell your grandma she rocks! I’m sure many couples would be more than happy to have her officiate their weddings if that’s something she’s interested in doing!
Since we moved quite a bit when I was younger, I was also a church hopper. In one, a devout woman was being kicked out of the congregation because she was divorcing her husband who had cheated on her for over 20 years. The husband was not being kicked out because he was, in the words of the pastor, "sorry." In another, I and several other women were SA-ed by one of the pastor's favorite members. Again, that man was forgiven and we were shunned because we had embarrassed the church with our actions (by coming forward with the truth). There's a church down the street from us now (Faithful Word Baptists) that preaches that anyone who is not straight should be shot. I could go on, but I'm not a church-goer anymore. For a religion that preaches love and acceptance, there is too much hate in the organizations that spread it.
I was raised without religion. I can't tell you how many people were absolutely floored that I wasn't Christian. Like they literally couldn't comprehend that somebody could be a nice human being without god in their life. I'm glad I was able to show them that was untrue, and also was happy to nudge them in the direction to be more open-minded towards other people. I have unfortunately lost some friends because of this, but the ones that stuck around I love dearly. ❤️
@@lilytheflower-4004those people are hilarious to me, as a raised without religious person. They’re admitting that without religion telling them not to they would be murderers and thieves? I’m not a criminal because it doesn’t cross my mind lol, but some of these Christians imply that only the threat of hellfire is holding them back
@@lilytheflower-4004no frr. Like I love my dad but sometimes once in a blue moon he'll say the craziest shit,and one time bro comes out saying something like "well if you are atheist then how will you know what is moral" as if now that I don't have a doctrine to follow I'm gonna go murder a man and not feel bad about it or smth??
I’ve had a similar experience while in summer school. I was in for English and I don’t know how it came up but I said I was an atheist and these two girls were flabbergasted. They also confused it for agnosticism which I corrected. They seemed like nice girls throughout my time in summer school, not too loud, never really mean but yeah. Completely agree.
I'm atheist, and there have been so many times that people told me, "You must be Christian". People CAN be nice, sincere and practice good morals without the threat of eternal damnation, y'all!
As a woman in academia (STEM related), the amount of times I've been disrespected and had to pick up after men's slack in general is through the roof. Not to mention that if you ask for a raise or something, you have to justify yourself. We have members of our team that literally cry every year "I'm too stressed, I need a raise" and they get one, they are also all men. You're also hard pressed to request time off and 'leaving the team hanging'. And once you're done being gaslit to oblivion and decide to leave, they, just like your ex, have no idea why you 'suddenly' left out of nowhere.
"men seek out hard truths" Yes the hard truth, that no matter what you do in your life skydaddy loves you and thinks you're his special little man. Such a hard hard truth you've got there lmao
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished. I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
The ironic thing is, the reason why women loved Christ so dearly and followed him was because he saw past tradition and saw them as wbo they are, human. Not cattle, not property, not baby factories, but human.
Literally. My entire upbringing, I was taught about how Jesus reached out to the disenfranchised and outcast. It's utter lunacy to me that people would see the religion as anything _but_ supportive of those who face discrimination.
I’ll never forget in my “World Religions” class how the professor asked on the first day, “Would we be moral creatures without religion?” and my Atheist-since-childhood ass was like “Yeah of course” meanwhile the rest of the racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/conservative class said “No.” The fucking irony.
They're the kinda people who resort to utter carnage soon as the teacher leaves the classroom because there is no one there to enforce the rules anymore. If you needed a set of rules to be good, you were never good to begin with, you were only compliant in fear of repercussion, not due to your nature.
The fact that they need religion to be decent is a reflection of them. I’ve often heard people say they are good because they don’t want to burn in eternal damnation, which is just…scummy imo. You should be a good person because you WANT to be.
this is an incredibly interesting topic for me from a purely biological standpoint. human beings naturally do not enjoy hurting others. think about how many veterans have ptsd from war. from either killing or watching people be killed. think of the statistic of how little people actually shot their enemies during our first wars. when we see other humans as people, it goes against our nature to hurt them. that is why mr german painter did so much damage, he taught the soldiers not to view their enemies as people, therefore it was easier to kill them. we are social animals, we thrive around other people. we experience sympathy and empathy completely naturally. i mean a majority of social animals do not go out of their way to hurt each other and most of them don’t even have the complex emotional intelligence we do. i genuinely think being ‘good’ people is instinct edit: sorry i never actually got to my point-i do not think it is religion that teaches people to be ‘good’ people. i think we are born that way. it is obviously possible to corrupt our view on other people but that is because we are social animals. we want to belong. so we definitely can and have skewed our beliefs if it means we can be apart of a community
I'd heard a Christian at one point when I was a kid say that God made atheists to show Christians that you didn't need to believe in God to be a good person. I got the sentiment, but even as a kid I thought it was an odd thing to say. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized, it's so very self-centered. Regardless of what was meant, phrasing another person's *life* as a personally built lesson just for you is unhinged and not right.
My Episcopal friend goes to a trans supportive church and I always just think, wouldn’t less women and queer people leave if more churches were simply progressive and safer?
i dont even believe in christianity and stuff (atheist) but its just SO SO SO heartbreaking that you have to go out of your way to find a church that won’t hate on you /srs like wtf why aren’t all of them accepting, doesn’t your god tell you to put acceptance first??
^^^^^ this. considering jesus hung out with marginalized people and was strictly opposed to theocracy. but yanno. it’s convenient for the Vatican as a corporate entity which it absolutely is.
As a teen, the woman who taught the teen girls bible study told us that when she went to college, she "strayed" and drank and partied. And she slept with a man and got pregnant. And the church made her APOLOGIZE on stage, in front of the congregation. Crying and all she had to ask THEIR forgiveness. I never wanted to come back. My heart still hurts for her. She thought this was acceptable. She deserved better.
"men like harder truths" but if you explain the hard truth of sexism to them all of a sudden they can't handle it anymore
Oop 🫢
Or you tell them hard truths about their own behavior and it hurts their feelings 🤫
You literally can’t explain anything about the woman’s body without them getting all weird about it. Period.
@@crystocious6715 Ba-dump tssss!
men want harder truths means... men want a structure where women are exploited and have harder lives so that men can enjoy the harder "truth" of a comfortable life. They're just lazy and losers because I guarantee that they don't want to really suffer. They can't even handle being slightly associated with bad men in history. They get upset when women choose the bear. I don't see these men having the inner strength to handle even a paper cut much less the "hard truth" they claim they desire. If they truly want a hard truth, let them listen to lectures on toxic masculinity. They won't be able to handle that truth.
and frankly, in the last 5-10 years, have started to think that human males are developmentally delayed. I mean, they're so stupid they fell for Petersen or Tate or that silly fresh n fit nonsense. I think we need to keep them in school and not grant them the legal right to be considered adults until they're in their twenties. if they need somebody to tell them to clean their bedrooms, they aren't ready for more responsibility or power.
I hate the obsession with impregnating women but simultaneously making being pregnant more difficult and dangerous than it already was.
It’s about control over womens bodies. Those kind of men don’t give a shit what women go through, just as long as they have control over women they’re satisfied.
And simultaneously making it more expensive to give birth in a hospital. And what abt daycare for said kid.
We humans wouldn’t have to deal with this problem if evolution or gods had made puberty, reproduction, pregnancy and childbirth much more easier for women!
@@MarshalMarrs-eu9yhthere’s no intent behind evolution yk
@@spook6394 I understand that but I said “evolution or GODS”.
"You, as a woman, are meant to be pure and virginal until you get married, serve and obey your husband who is the master of the home, bear children until your body breaks- wait, where are you going?!"
😂😂😂
“BTW, if the husband cheats or you’re assaulted, it’s your fault. See you next week!”
Dont forget to also work over 40 hours and pay the bills on top of it nowadays. Pass
Also don’t forget to disown your kids and family members if they’re sinners and not devoted Christians.
Warning: the same men who “play games to escape reality” go to church to do the same thing.
Preacher’s kid here, I began questioning the church doctrine as a teenager when two church staff told me that the way I was wearing my crossbody purse (i.e., across my body) could “cause a brother to stumble.” When i questioned this, they told my parents I had the spirit of Jezebel. To give you some context, Jezebel was an ‘evil’ queen that tried to kill god’s prophet Elijah. She was later thrown to her death from a high window (by gods servants) and eaten by dogs. ALL BECAUSE OF HOW I WORE MY PURSE.
How DARE you have breasts and the ability to make food.
all that for a cross body bag 💀💀 men are gone
Wow 😮
I bet it was because it parts your boobs and those adults were staring. I had the same issue, where I was told not to wear a crossbody or long necklaces because I was purposefully trying to make others look at my 14 year old chest. Like bro, wtf are you doing ogling a child’s body like that?
Preacher's kid too. I'm 76, black and Baptist. I was supposed to find a man to marry who would take care of me. I told my dad that I'd take care of myself. It was around the time that women's liberation was at its height. Men expected you to serve them dinner. I told men in my life that they had two hands and two feet. Yhey could get up and get their own food. Taught daughters to strive to be all they could be and not subservient to the male of the male of the species. Respect goes both ways. Don't tread on our feelings or our freedoms!😊
There’s a guy at my church who cheated on his wife with a 14 year old girl, and now he’s blaming HIS WIFE because she left the church after they got divorced.
InSANEEEEE! LOCK HIM UP!
💀💀💀
That man is not seeing the pearly gates
My mom said church becomes hell on earth the minute when you become a divorcee. The dynamic actively changes
why is he in church and not PRISON???
The irony is that if Jesus was living nowadays, he would actually scold these hypocritical Pharisees so hard they would put him on a cross. Again.
Fr. They would condemn him as a radical communist😂
this comment hits
Remember, Jesus went and made the whip he took to the corrupt churches to talk
I would pay good money to see how Jesus handled it today lol
They use Jesus to justify their misogyny, racism, wealth hoarding, child abuse, and classism. Jesus would never
One million percent. I am convinced that most “Christians” nowadays are in fact, “Paulians.” They have forsaken the red letters of Christ in favor of a false gospel made up by a misogynist, hateful man who usurped the good news.
The irony of saying men go to church to seek out the “hard truth” when in actuality it’s to escape owning up to their own misogyny.
the “hard truth” that super conveniently says the world needs to be less hard on you and harder on everyone else
„Im not this way because of patriarchy or bigoted choices. I’m this way because that’s the way the highest power in the universe made me. No personal accountability or self reflection needed here.“
@@allisonsummer6817 "I know I've been unfaithful, but God forgives me and that ALL that matters" 😌
They like to hear some “wrath of god” but it’s definitely only if that wrath is directed towards like women who wear revealing clothes and not if that wrath holds men accountable
Gods forbid you bring up hard truths like the long and throughly documented subjugation and oppression of women and other marginalized groups, the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd get awfully emotional then.
As a woman who was raised Catholic, I was taught that I was never going to go to heaven unless I was subservient to my future husband, unless I pushed out babies, unless I gave myself over to a man completely, and that I was inherently dirty for having a period, or taking control over my body. And I didn’t even go to any crazy conservative churches. That is base line traditional religion.
Let’s not pretend that Christianity isn’t built off of the hatred of women (don’t get me started on Eve). Let’s not pretend that Christians didn’t burn women at the stake for the implication of them being anything different.
Grandma was catholic, had a child out of wedlock and wasn’t allowed to get married in the chapel but hidden behind the chapel, her friend who did the same had her father donate $$$ and was treated totally differently so my grandma left
I was "raised" by Jehovah's Witnesses. I remember once as a kid this Catholic girl tried to start a fight w me when she found out my family was JW and made a big thing about the beliefs, but it was like hon you got waaaaay more in common with me than not... XD;;
Will you speak against Islam too? or are they too scary for you? Got to always be edgy and hostile against Christianity, except when there Is a real dangerous religion that could harm you.
Anyone heard pastors/priests making questionable clothing rules on women? Like i have heard a pastor say that women should cover their shoulders, arms, not wear jeans. I didnt know how to react to that....
@@Delphi43 this was also a big part of being in church. I remember being told as a literal child once at this church camp thing where we played SOCCER during the SUMMER (in the heat) that me wearing a tank top was inappropriate because everyone could see my shoulders. I was like 8? at the time I thought it was because I took off my camp shirt because I got hot, now as an adult I realize that they were sexualizing a literal child.
One of the main reasons the pastor misses women is because he expects their free labor as volunteers? Put the boys to work, Pastor!
Good point.
Boys usually have the spine to tell him no unlike girls who are typically raised to be more susceptible to social pressure.
😂😂😂
But... but... that's HOUSECLEANING, coOking, and childcare. 😱
The truth of your comment is beautiful.
Yup was never raised with religion but the few times I’ve been to events it’s so obvious that the women and their daughters make events happen
What? Women aren’t as eager to practice a religion that views them as cattle now that they have more agency in their lives? Who’d a thunk it?
The Bill Hicks is strong in you.
My family is Catholic and my mom thinks men are more oppressed than women. Christian women are actually brainwashed
"No! Handmaid's Tale is a good thing!" - Evangelical Men
@@DarwinRoger893 all*
Trust me. I've checked. They all benefit men at the not benefit of women. 😊
@@DarwinRoger893 every religion teaches women that they are inferior and shames them from their early childhood onwards.
It’s the slow realization over the course of my life that far-right institutions protect predatory men. Not only the church, but the police force and entertainment industry as well. It was hard enough speaking out about me and my friends’ abuse without the church being involved, but the LAPD hardly did a thing even though he was targeting underage girls.
Forreal. And not just ‘far right’. In the so called ‘US’, it is essentially all institutions because the foundation of the ‘country’ is based in genocide, slavery, and predation by abusive bigoted mostly men.
☹
It sucks, doesn't it...
I have hope that as more leftists get into power, the more the institutions will change to finally stop protecting those men.
I hope both you and your friend have long and peaceful lives. You both deserve that much.
You are so brave for speaking up. I'm so sorry that law enforcement failed you (the way it fails so many of us), but the more we speak up, the harder it will become to ignore what is happening. People don't realize how pervasive these issues are and how accepted they are in certain spaces, communities, and families. Every time a survivor tells their story, I have to believe we get a little bit closer to creating a safer world.
I think religion is our biggest obstacle in the way of progress and advancement. Pretty much all church members are praised for showing a lack of critical thinking skills. "Faith" is considered a good thing, but it just means a person has decided to stop thinking rationally and let someone else tell them what to believe.
Predatory men seek positions of power. That is why these institutions protect them -- one of their own. More women need to be politically active and hold powerful positions, only then can women and young girls enjoy safty and freedom of their own.
„They are less traditional“ often translates to me as „we can’t use and manipulate them as easy anymore“
“They (women) have been a crucial force in missionary work and volunteering” by that he means “we’ve been able to exploit their labor for hundreds of years and now it looks like they’re over it. What gives?”
!!!!!
If there are no women, who is going to volunteer to clean the church? Set up for service?
@@Heartofthestar I really cannot emphasize enough how much women’s free labor is exploited in church settings.
Who will bake the scones? My rugged, manly hands can't possible mix flour and milk together.
@@Dontstopbelievingman 😂😂😂 sadly you’re probably quoting them verbatim
emphasizing the masculinity of jesus to tell young men that they have a purpose as husbands and fathers??? jesus wasn’t even a husband or a father..?
That depends on which gospel you believe in. But I get your point.
The right wing view on masculinity is that your true calling is military service and that your emotions don't matter. It's pathetic
He did have a six pack tho 💪
Ah, but he was the husband of the Church! And he was God, and God is the Father!
But in reality I'm pretty sure they're just trying to use religion as a tool of control, and for that it's easier to force people to fit into a specific mold according to their gender assigned at birth, especially if these molds lead to the production of new followers.
Nor are they taught that men should be fathers like how women should be taught to be mothers. Like?
If i enter a church and see mostly frat boys, I’m gonna back out of there so fast they’re gonna thing something holy just happened
They're gonna think you got raptured 😂😂😂
Why would you even enter a church when you can easily find the Creator in Nature.?
I would think context would matter, yes?
Time and place.
At any old random church, yeah, it's odd.
But most college campuses do have space for use for religious organizations (student community centers based on creed or denomination, and chapel in some cases. The same is true for most hospitals)
And just historically, most of the Jesus Freak portion of the hippie movement
Were kids. Teens and twenty somethings.
@@kriskabin some people need some help putting order and structure into their lives.
As long as it's limited to their own lives, where's the problem?
I'd kool aid man my way out that door.
I am a single mom of two girls. I have always told my girls if any religion represses any one or gender it is a CULT, NOT RELIGION. Church should preach LOVE NOT HATE.
Church: "A women's purpose is to serve men"
Women: *leaves*
Church: *surprised Pikachu face*
you tell me it's my entire life's purpose to be completely submissive and dependent on someone else and are surprised I would rather pursue an education/career and an equitable relationship? hello.
I’ve noticed when women rely on men they fail them. Not all but most drop the ball. So no we’re not going to serve men who can’t lead.
@@caitlinweiss8801 I am 50 and there are NO good churches.. the so called "non denominational" churches are just fundie mega churches.. their music sucks the people are BORING and suck their politics is god awful, pardon the pun, and getting worse...such dorks they say weird stuff like they did in the article about girls and skirts.. that's what happens forcing guys too be stupid celibates...NO reason to be celibate if its not what you feel..I will NEVER return until the right wing conservative BS is marginalized.. that will never happen in my life.. I'm 50.. they went from ok and reasonable a while back to what it became now..eff the church..
surprised pik face in almost october 2024 is unbelievable
I think it’s important to emphasize some churches
The most praised and valued woman in the Bible was a VIRGIN who gave birth. How can any woman live up to that standard? I always think about that. We “ate the apple” and if we are mothers, we cannot be virtuous as virgins. We were set up to fail in Christianity. Please no hate, just my opinion.
I think you hit the bull's eye with misogyny problems with Christianity. Women can never be good enough from the get go, no matter how hard they try, they can never live up to some impossible standards
It doesn’t matter what we do we’ll never be “good enough”. Ironically it’s the same thing they’re complaining about them not being good enough for us.
Catholic care more about Mary than Christians. And in the Bible I only seen the caring of a women’s virginity is BEFORE marriage, it states both male and female should be virgins . The Bible wants us to be mothers and I’ve never seen any hate in the Bible for a mother. We were never supposed to be like many . Men READing the book made that all up. (If you even think the Bible is holy word) men are the ones who disregard women and especially mothers. But a agree things feel pretty sexist sometimes
Like my old church , protestant so no one cares of our opinions thinking we are shit and fake but , they were so good on reminding women how important they are and how god loves them and how important mothers are ect (they did the same for men too) but they did NOT leave out women and were quick to point out points in the Bible where women were important and how sin was no not just “eves aka women’s fault “
And even if we could live up to such a ridiculous standard, WE ARE BLAMED FOR SIN. Like the Bible says we ate the forbidden fruit and then “seduced” men into doing the same. Uhhhhhh…no.
My brother was my best friend for over 20 years, until he became a born again Christian. I'm both a woman and a lesbian, so our friendship ended right on the spot. He chose God over me and I still haven't quite recovered from that. If he thinks I should fundamentally change to be able to go to Heaven and thinks that women shouldn't even wear pants, I don't think we have much to talk about. Gee, can't imagine why women aren't interested in church anymore?
> thinks that women shouldn't even wear pants
that is wild, no idea what to even say
@starleaf-luna recently saw a video of a girl sharing her struggle of running to answer the door but she has pants on so she puts a knee length skirt over it to be modest....she had puffy sweat pants (hardly different from a skirt since it didn't not show form more than the skirt). I think methods of modesty and rules are insane. Its more of a mental game on what a person finds sexual. Which shows a lot about that person's perspective on others too. I know not everyone follows it to a t, but I can't imagine living like that lol my struggle is being dead naked and answering the door in a 2xl t shirt. Such a different life.
Damn bro, I feel bad for you 😔
after 20+ YEARS??? how can ANYONE just choose to end that kind of sibling relationship, over something they like. JUST got into??? I'm so sorry your brother was so selfish, in the name of religion. Christianity shouldn't be like this. The thousands of years of people perverting scripture has been an absolute disaster for the religion. My own grandfather told me I was possessed by a demon, and that's why I was queer/trans. I hope peace finds you.
sounds like he wasnt choosing god over you, he was choosing being ignorant and staying in an echo chamber over his friendship
im an atheist but even i know that god wants acceptance and empathy not... whatever your former friend did
I find that the “men like the “fear of god” sentiment” part of the article rings pretty false to me. These young men don’t like fearing gods punishment, they like being part of punishing others in the name of god
THIS!!!
The subjects of this punishment are largely women. Never nem..
PERIOD!!!
Pretty sadistic
When I was a teenager, our church had separate youth groups for the boys and girls. One year, the girls did a fundraiser for an activity that our leaders had planned and we ended up raising double what we needed. Since the boys had already gotten to do a rock-climbing activity and a couple of adventure obstacle courses and we had only had one big activity that year, our group leaders had hoped that we could use the money to do something fun like the boys got to do. Instead of letting the girls keep the money that WE earned though, the church leaders gave it to the boys to fund a laser tag night. It's been ten years now and I still remember how upset every single one of the girls was when our group leader broke the news. It's not surprising to me now that 8/11 of those girls left the church eventually. There were so many moments like that that made it clear that the boys were valued more than the girls.
Well boycott the NBA then. Gather all those who play for the NBA and make them follow you. Don't play for the NBA, that way they won't have money to subsidize for women. Women will be unable to play, and you guys will be happy. Problem solved.
You can keep your churches as well, you won't have to pay women to take care of it since there will be no woman anymore. What bliss ?
@MikeDonaldson-eh2ru women's Healthcare? You mean the non-existent Healthcare that we experience when doctors tell us that our pain is all in our head-- that Healthcare?
@@TypeOneg "women's healthcare" is also when you go to a doctor and they tell you they have no idea what's wrong because they've never cared enough to study women's bodies
@jaceyemerald I got secondhand mad on your behalf just reading this post! Why Why Why are men (obligatory not all men, or as I will henceforth call it “ONAM” :D so effing entitled and fragile - oh right because of people like everyone in society, including their mothers and pastors apparently treating them like they’re made of gold and girls are just there to procreate and serve them, sigh
this is so upsetting :( glad you're out of it now!
me and all my sisters left church too because the church obviously saw women as inferior. My father had no sons, but we know that if he had one, he would've treated him better than us daughters.
More women in Uni and more men in church. The something .......not irony but something else. Dont know what.
it's correlates with the rising of male going deep in the "red pill" and manosphere and the rapid rise of male loneliness while more women rn choosing to be celibate and opted out of dating pool to pursue education and career etc. Hmmm seems like the problem is not women
@ryss335 it's not just to pursue education, it's also because most men still believe the only thing they need to give in a relationship is a paycheck. Only modern men also expect you to provide the paycheck and do ALL the work that relationships require.
@@fawnieeeexactly, imagine that the modern society forced us to have the responsibility of taking care of kids and ALL the "wife's duty" while also working a 9-5. All they have wanted is for us to became a maid, a therapist and a caretaker
@@ryss335I actually disagree on one of your points. While I do believe more women are able to be celibate or single, I think this is largely the minority.
Women do not just have a greater choice not to date, but a greater choice to date whomever they feel they want to date. So I wanted to clarify that because of this sentiment.
“Other Men/University/Work etc. did not take away all the women, women just did not choose you.”
There are many women who pursue careers and are married or dating, and men have to realize that they have to be desirable more than covet a system that makes them necessary to a woman as a paycheck.
college, knowledge, Jupiter, stupider etc.
This is like my parents being like: “Why is my queer child, who we treated like shit when he came out, and who *never* had an accepting church in the 18 years he lived in our house, not Christian anymore? Why is he not interested in going to church with us anymore?” I wonder why…
Just know that you're loved 😊
aq
@@oneofmanygoogleaccountsima4221 shocked pikachu
Fr. Sorry it went that way fam. I hope you’re doing better these days.
literallyyyy lmao. i can’t wait to move out and have my family be shocked and surprised that i will be ghosting them the second i am financially independent. as if the word ‘homosexual’, literally what i am, was only used to mean something sinful and horrific and disgusting, only being whispered quietly between the adults as if it’s so wrong that even speaking of it was like cursing yourself.
There was a time when my pastor (and father) called two women to the front of the church to shame them because they had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. But I recently learned that one of the popular junior pastors had been caught cheating on his wife and preying on women in the church. Crickets. Has not been addressed, just brushed under the rug. The shaming, hypocrisy, years of feeling inadequate and inherently evil has taken a toll on my confidence, mental health and ability to make independent decisions. I'll have to spend years unlearning and rewiring my brain to finally heal from all this. I only go to church now cos I live at home. Once I am able to move out - that's it I'm done.
Wish you the best in life. Just remember, we are all equal, in eyes of law, and in eyes of the God (at least I heard so). Your opinions and your feelings are VALID! And you have every right to make choises for yourself. Because it is YOU who live with those choises and consequences, good or bad, not anybody else. And people who love you will understand ❤
Funny, maybe that’s why single mothers from religious families choose abortion.
It might help to join online spaces that see the world completely opposite of what you were taught. To help you realize that doesn’t have to be your reality and it’s okay if it isn’t.
Wishing you all the best and a long and wonderful life!
bro.... why would your dad do that shit as a pastor? something about remove the plank in your own eye before you can remove the speck from someone else's eye.... like didnt jesus say forgive each other, help each other, serve each other? he never said shame each other. thats so crazy. from all stories in church that ive heard, being such a bad pastor right in the open for everyone to see and no one stopping that shit is crazy to me.
"the guys are just hungry" sounds nothing short of a threat veiled as a "warning" that women should make themselves available to losers who don't see us as people. Genuinely horrifying thing to say in the most subtly sinister way.
It sounds more like he's saying that these men are going hungry because they're incapable of providing for themselves without a woman in their life, which is rather pathetic and insulting to both women and men.
it sounds animalistic and a way to dehumanize women by saying that men are hungry FOR them which is genuinely so fucked up.
So the Duran Duran song "Hungry Like the Wolf" is kinda sinister too, then? Genuine question.
lisa queen
hi lisa aquarius queen!
The day the church holds men accountable is the day I go back to church. 💀 it’s deadass NEVER a mans fault in church as i grew up in religion. The whole church can know a man is beating his wife and nobody says anything. Yet if a woman cheats on that husband the whole church will shame her.
Why would you ever go back. Get better friends and stay rational.
The church turning a blind eye to domestic violence and even advising DV survivors to stay in those toxic marriages for the "sake of the family unit/ children" is why I left the church and won't come back.
Thats because pastors get that celebrity effect going for them, it's the women that will overlook things if a man can get them excited enough.......The men should be accountable as well but lets not place strictly on the men.
@@quintonmaldonado8368 That's because they've been brainwashed to be "submissive". The bible compares a wife to a slave, it's pathetic and disgusting!
@@quintonmaldonado8368 Women aren't excited about being fucking beaten, you idiot. They are very well aware that they will lose all their social support and lifelong connections if they disobey their church. Women aren't complicit in their own abuse, they simply prefer to stay *alive* and ideally not entirely alone. The women who do choose to leave... the state of domestic violence shelters in the USA is in shambles and no-fault divorce is under attack. The blame is almost always on the men. Not all men, yeah, but somehow. Some fucking how it is always a man!
Wow, women ditch patriarchal and sexist institution?? 😱
You win the internet today. 🏆
I didn't realize I was in a cult until I left and it completely changed everything I was taught.
I'm glad I left.
wasn't it just this year a man stood up during his graduation and told women they basically belonged in the kitchen using his religion as an excuse? Why would we want to stay in the church this year?
What's sad is how many women stay and go along with the sexism. I got 4 women in my family who agree with women submitting to husband authority (they're all abused for it, too).
More news at 10.
Young men being more easily manipulated than young women by a community that often makes those young men feel empowered over said young women?
I whonder why?
A few weeks ago I attended my grandpa's funeral at a Catholic Church. The deacon told me "you're so cute, why put all that metal in your face?" referring to my septum. I was less than a foot away from my grandfather's corpse. The audacity of some church dudes is insane.
I would've answered: "Because God told me to" lmaoooo
That's messed up.
“You know who else had their skin pierced with metal? Jesus.”
@@donttrustthefey3777 💀
@@donttrustthefey3777lol good one
My main problem with the "I just want a traditional woman" crowd is that most of them aren't prepared to be a traditional man in exchange. What they actually want is to sit around playing video games all day while someone else does all the work.
Exactly. Hypocritical man children.
Traditional men who genuinely want traditional women, don't whine about it.
They put their head down and get on with life until they meet one.
They want another mommy, but one that they can sleep with. That's what purpose many of them believe wives and girlfriends serve. To do things for them and nothing else.
They want to marry their mommies so they can live like how they lived in middle school. You know, where mommy brings you a snack after school and tells you that she cleaned up your room and did your laundry since it was such a mess etc.
What's worse is technically, "trad wife" was different back before the industrial revolution. Like, men had lots of chores too but all the industrial revolution did was automate men chores and give women more chores so the traditional trad wife isn't even that traditional or realistic . Even back then they noted women looking stressed as hell
Not much is traditional about "trad wives". They're well paid influencers who have created lifestyle brands that romanticize the way we never were as a society. Women who could afford to not earn money used women of color, children and poor white women as cooks, wet nurses, laundresses, etc. That is the way things actually were and in many ways, still are.
I rolled my eyes so hard at the stat about childless men wanting children more than childless women. Of course they do, when they don't have to take on any major physical or medical risks to procreate (assuming this stat primarily reflects cis folks). I also think that girls are so much more likely to be expected to babysit/provide childcare from a young age, and have a fuller understanding of how challenging parenting actually is, whereas men might have a rosier, less realistic picture of what raising children is like.
[I don't think I should have to say this, but, NOT ALL blah blah blah. I'm commenting on the way we are socialized based on gender under the patriarchy, these are not universal truths, many people break these norms.]
100%
in addition to the challenge of women tending to bear more of the responsibility of childrearing, it also historically costs them more as it impacts their bodies (if they birth) and their identity (as, especially in the US, it greatly impacts their ability to hold a job / have a life outside of parenting)
There's a great statistic where in countries with paid paternity leave, the number of children men want goes *way* down
Yup. My knee-jerk response to all of these guys "hungering" for families is to ask what they're doing to help with or support children now? Are they volunteering in the nursery? Teaching Sunday school classes? Donating time/materials for children living in poverty? Or are they just basking in the daydream of a wife, two and a half kids and a picket fence which will never require anything more of him than working one regular 9-5 and also his cooking, cleaning, and laundry have all mysteriously ceased to exist as chores he needs to do.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 I was actually pretty much raised by my dad. He's disabled so my mom had to work. Unfortunately he's a minority of men who actually step up to raise their children. If only more people could be like him. He's not perfect and has his faults, but he did the best he could. I don't doubt him when he says that he wished he could be in my half siblings lives when they were growing up, and I can't imagine what it must've been like. Btw, he was born in febuary of 1965. He's almost 60 with family values stronger than a lot of these church going young men.
Yeah 100%. People *still* talking about how "we should allow women to be housewives" and shit. Like who's forbidding them? Did I miss a blink in human history where househusbands were the norm and women were the majority of breadwinners? Makes me so sick to my stomach how many men treat their supposedly beloved partners, then somehow have those expectations be kowtowed as "rebellious" in this modern age. But-! Some upside; I think I've started to recently see more and more men willing to actually parent their children! Usually I would see men with baby strollers only when accompanying the mother, but just today I saw FOUR fathers pushing the strollers just by themselves, fixing the baby's clothes and all! Genuinely warming my heart, to see even such small changes.
When I was 14, after I got baptized, my pastor told me to not let any man get in my pants, “even if he just wants to put in the tip”… it was such an uncomfortable and unprompted conversation, it made my parents wildly uncomfortable when I told them about it.
Dude at 14?? Wtf??? That is so disgustingly inappropriate
"men seek out harder truths" and "men feel like they're not immediately under suspicion in church" are such opposites. Like "I want the hard truth but if anyone tells me I have to be better I'm gonna loose it." Bro wut.
Fragile masculinity at its finest
I commented a similar thing. It's because they love the wrath of God happening to someone ELSE. they don't imagine it happening to them.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups and minorities, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished.
I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups and minorities, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished.
I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished.
I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
11:39 "[women] historically have been crucial forces in missionary work and volunteering" wait I thought men built the world on their own??? 🤨 (/s☠)
Crucial until it’s time for recognition
Women also actually funded men in the past but were removed from leadership positions after men stopped taking their money
Women held a lot of power in history than popular or school version of it teaches. They usually acted in the background arranging marriages and poisoning enemies. Not at flashy as leading men to war but still pretty important
The monetary value of uncompensated labor performed by women globally is worth $11 trillion. And that's if the women and girls were paid minimum wage. - Oxfam & ILO
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495id be interested in what you mean. What specific power did they hold historically. I fear you’ll say something about women’s power being their influence on men with power…. Which is not power. I’ve heard many people argue that case before. But if power relies on pleasing someone who holds the actual power… that’s clearly not power.
The men can date each other then if they got so much to say
since they hate women so much anyways
I mean... Jesus ate, lived, and slept with 13 other men, full time. You tell me how that sounds. I don't want to use the word polycule, but I can't think of another word for it.
Nah, we don't want these guys sis. There's already enough of them sneaking around. They can . . . take the Church and whatever they decide to do inside.
Are you really blaming ALL gay men rn???
@@swearv3396I don't think that's what they are saying AT ALL. I think they are commenting on the cis hetero male loneliness epidemic and how men complain women won't date them (while they refuse to do any self improvement or go to therapy or learn good hygiene) so they should just date each other platonically (or not, maybe some are bi or haven't come out yet) and leave us women alone.
I was a Christian that turned to Paganism because they don't view women as property but as a free being. Plus it's far more fun, interesting, healing, and engaging.
That may be true of modern Neo-Pagan rivals, but if you research the polytheistic religions that Christianity displaced from Europe and the Mediterranean you'll find they tended to be quite a bit more misogynistic than Christianity ever was. Early Christianity was often a refuge that women sought to free themselves from a much more male dominated wider society. There were more than 3 women for every man in the church for the first few centuries, whereas most other cults at the time were mostly (some entirely) male. The idea of becoming a Nun was basically invented by women looking for a religious excuse not to enter the marriages that their fathers had arrange for them.
Same
But Christ and his followers don’t view women as property at all. Anyone that said others is a liar and doesn’t know God
And if you interested in being ethical and moral in all your dealings, Pagans far out-strip christians every single time.
@@CKLee-rs4kl They're too prosperity driven in the worst way. In Paganism and witchcraft, it's just about having what we need and more to give away to those in need. I've been treated better by non-Christian men. They've been very community oriented which is what we need in this toxic world.
Leopards Confused that Women No Longer Want Their Faces Eaten: More at 10
Shocking ‼️‼️😪💔
Leopards *Absolutely Devastated* That This Applies To Almost Every Woman Too: More Updates On The Way
Breaking update on the leopard loneliness crisis: leopards are lobbying the Supreme Court to rule in favor of allowing face eating to be taught in schools. Opponents say it's discriminatory towards women who disagree with having their faces eaten.
Lmao y'all silly
@@triciad4100Breaking: The Supreme Court handed a win to the leopards.
The juxtaposition of “Men are attracted to harder truths” and “men are coming to the church because it’s one of the only spaces that doesn’t criticize them” is sending me
Seriously! My ex was one these kind of guys that wanted “the harder truth” but couldn’t even make time to go seek out God on Sundays cuz he was “too busy working” (he would sleep
In until 11:00 am after staying up till 2:00 am rewatching LOST for the ninth time and reposting dank memes that went against good Christian values)
My father cheated on my mom with at least 3 different women from church, as well as kicking out his 16 year old son for being gay. Family has since separated from him but he still thinks he did nothing wrong because he immersed himself harder into the church afterwards. That man has done nothing but make people miserable his entire life and yet still is told he's a great person at church.
Having long since forgotten the spiritual part of his religion, all he has left is spreading his hate on to unwilling people. Never having to face his faults, or do a deep personal introspection into how he broke up the family for some quick hook ups. He is the picturesque representation of a coddled man who never looked deeper into the mirror because he never had to. The church and religion still protects him and his fragile ego.
This comment presupposes that men believe all criticism of themselves is true and by rejecting it they are knowingly avoiding truth. This is obviously ridiculous, but it is required to be what is going on in order for this comment to be anything other than muddled nonsense. There's no juxtaposition between accepting what you believe to be hard truth and rejecting what you believe to be slander.
The fact it "sends you" is a testament to a lack of critical thinking. The men are engaging in perfectly normal behavior. The bizarre thing here isn't the men, it's your weird inability to see things from their perspective.
I think Rhett put it best when talking about why young people are leaving the church. Parents raised their kids to read the Bible. And when they did, they realized what the church was saying wasn’t what Jesus was saying.
Exactly why I left. When I got to high school and we fully read through the Bible for the first time, I realized it had so many contradictions, and preached so many things I didn't want to be a part of. What really solidified it was when we did a whole unit on "proving" God exists, and I tore apart all the reasons in my head with five minutes and a crumb of critical thinking
100%
the church says to love everyone then gets upset when people assume that means queer, Black, etc. people too
That. part. One of the main trigger for my deconversion was the idea that Christ calls the weary to "rest" by his side, while my experience with being a genuine believer was 24/7 mental, emotional and physical exhaustion. (That plus the idea, that "heaven" would mean listening to Hillsong's songs surrounded by racist w. evangelicals for all eternity. Good music and drag queen shows sound way more fun, let's be honest!)
We do not even know what was in the original version of the Bible. All we have are copies of copies, translations and some letters from Jesus buddies.
Going to church as a kid was what started me on my path to atheism 💀 the amount of hypocrisy going on in the preacher’s lectures confused little me so much
“attracted to harder truths” is just euphemism for “can’t handle complex and ambiguous moral situation that require nuance”
I don't get it either. A bunch of these 'harder truths' is 'you are owed deference just for being male.' The other 'hard truths' are 'if you just ask forgiveness using the right words there should be no consequences.' I've always felt a chunk of the Christian religion is some guy saying 'hey, I'm not the a-hole, god is telling me to be an a-hole!'
“Easy jobs are for women” is unfortunately a common opinion. But ask a man to set up his own utilities. Ask him to balance a checkbook.
Ask the man to work in an old people home or as a Kindergarten Teacher, as a nurse etc. Man are are d...
Ask him to cook. Or wash dishes. Or clean.
@@vegasa2067Care and parent the children equally
@@vegasa2067 or make his own doctor's appointment.
What are you talking about? Single men do all of those things. Do you think we're out here hiring maids??
I went to catholic school, and in elementary school there were 30 kids in my class, 8 of them were boys, the rest girls. The way those boys were treated vs the girls even tho they were the minority was CRAZY
Then went to an all girls catholic hs that preached women empowerment and girl power etc, then turned around and lectured us about laying and sitting certain ways around campus in our skirts bc of the male teachers being uncomfortable or whatever. There were maybe 10 men who worked at the school lol.
@@Brookeetrout Your second comment makes me absolutely sick...Harkens back to my, nonreligious middle school, "NO SPAGHETTI Strap tops!" "too distracting for the boys". Oddly enough also having a rule about shorts having to be at middle finger length when you put your arms on your sides. As if some of us girlies (me) didn't have long arms despite our short stature😑😑😑😑
This type of gender favouritism should count as child abuse.
@@Brookeetrout Isn't there literally a bible verse about how if someone's presentation offends someone that much, they can pluck out their eyes if they wish to not see it? Maybe those dudes could lead by example.
@@lilygone66When I was in high school, I was really hot (mind you it was a southern summer) and I took my hoodie off. I had an old lady completely flip out and tell me how inappropriate it was for me to show my spaghetti straps and made me put my hoodie on again. 😅
bro the pastor at the church i’m forced to attend literally married his wife when she was 15 and he was 30 smth. and that man always brings up falling for other women but not giving into temptation bc of god… it really makes me feel bad for his wife 🙃
He needs to get his hard drive checked and go to jail
The "other women" he's tempted by are probably just the other teenagers at church.
Like How did these lame as men EVER convince women that the knew more, was more righteous and should be in charge of everything when they so obviously are weak, projecting there own shit on to everything and can not see anything els then their own ass🙄😂
Oh my god, how do they just accept this? 15? Do they know they can go to another church without a cheating pedo? What’s the draw? I’m curious if you’ve asked why your parents stay? Probably because the marriage was “a long time ago?” And I’m guessing the women are blamed for the temptation. What about sermons about helping the needy, you know the good stuff Jesus did (as I was taught. I think there’s a higher power but the bible has been rewritten, poorly translated, anything written by women taken out…the book itself history is pretty wild. But it’s basically a tool for control. Men are everything, women create life but they’re not important. I saw a video of a preacher admitting to adultry. Then a girl got up and the adultry was him raping her as a teen in his office. The congregation rallied around her and were disgusted. Then the preacher got up and started whining…and they then rallied around him hugging him. The girl left with her companion without anyone noticing. It was so horrible. So many are just manipulative con artists. How do people just switch within minutes? So sad. I’m sorry you have to go. One day you’ll be free to make your own choices.❤
Whenever priests DO marry or have kids…it’s always with someone like 20 years younger who they effing baptized it’s so disgusting to me. And the same pattern is seen across all Christian churches, preachers pick child brides…almost like, men. 👀
I grew up super conservative Christian and tried to have this conversation with so many male leaders that I looked up to and respected. It was like talking to a brick wall. They would say things like, "I'm so sorry. It's not supposed to be this way. Male leadership is about love, not dominating others." They couldn't wrap their minds around the concept that I fundamentally could not develop and thrive with an awareness of being restricted.
To them, it was not my situation (restricted social status, loss of will to future husband) that was the issue, but their tone (be kind instead of harsh). They didn't see me as a person with innate drive, talent, ability, but as a WOMAN, and their model of what they owed to women was: affection.
To them, it was enough to soften the message and keep me in a cage. For me, the cage was always the problem, not whether they talked to me sweetly or harshly through the bars. I left and they still say they don't understand why.
Thissssss
Oh this resonates hard. I got told over and over that even though women are not meant to be leaders, they still serve very important roles, etc etc. Like the problem isn't tone here, it's the fact that you're still preaching that women are subservient. No matter how much you soften the message, the message is still misogynistic. No matter how kindly you say it, a golden cage is still a cage.
As a 55 year old woman, who was raised in the church, I never liked hearing preachers who would describe women needing to support their husband's no matter what. And that men need to make the decisions in the family. It was always so frustrating to feel like I was less. I can totally see why women are leaving the church. I have to say, FINALLY!
Same. Men were supposed to "lead" but even as a child, I could see that I had better grades than them at school. It makes no sense to shut down women, when we have as much intelligence and wisdom to offer in leadership.
I have abandoned organized religion for the majority of my life. It really didn't interest me to be told we're all sinful, but because of your genitals you're actually wicked and subservient, etc etc. I then found my own way into faith, and that's how I like it. I simply realized how up for interpretations things are with religion, and how my interpretation really is just as "truthful" as anyone else's. (Like how it's told that man came first, then woman from the man. But if one knows biology, they could tell from that alone that it's the other way around! How woman is actually, physiologically speaking, the default. So it's very easy to accept now, that that's probably not the "reality" of how we were possibly created, but because the bible was written by men alone. Afaik at least.) Now I moved into a new area, with a smaller church that is very transparent about how they actually help the people in need, how many bags of food they have given out, etc. I decided to visit it. Even before they sent out the collection bag, they stated what the money will exactly be spent on this time around, and it was for some shelter this time. I can't recall having heard that in any other church! I always assumed that they're literally just for the church. I have also already vetted the cantor, and she's just super chill, isn't performative and truly tries to live for herself now, rather than for the expectations of others. I haven't vetted the vicar properly yet, but she too seems chill and actually welcoming already. Haven't yet heard anything about women having to be of service and whatnot... Fingers crossed! I really don't have the energy for people or institutes that just use any religion to serve themselves and to control others, especially when we're *supposedly* all supposed to be made equal in the eyes of God... Just thought I'd share, sorry it got this long haha. Definitely came with age that I learned that I simply don't have to take idiots seriously, no matter what collar they're wearing.
Patriarchal good old boys club-->christianity.
Gosh, you have witnessed so much with all the changes and struggles women have gone through! I think about my mom who would have turned 70 this year and the things she witnessed and the things she couldn't do even in adulthood (like own a business which wasn't allowed till I think 1983.) and it wasn't that long ago and we are still struggling so much and now going backwards! It's no wonder many of our mothers and grandmothers were telling us to get an education and not get married.
It was so crazy to watch my mom slowly become left leaning and feminist the moment she divorced my extremely conservative catholic dad. Both of us are still traumatized and healing (she nearly died birthing 6 children!) but I’m glad we made it out 🤦♀️
In church men are told that they're literally the voice of God in the household and that they're inherently more capable of complex thought and decision making than women, and yet church officials act super shocked when a bunch of dudes are down to sign up for that and young women aren't 😂
its ironic too considering that the female human is bioligically FAR more gifted naturally with reference to genetic traits we posses that men simply cannot (on average). this is due to the fact that females have over a thousand more genetic combinations and variations due to our extra x chromsome (xx) whereeas males only having one x. this is also a possible explanation for nuerodivirgence and sensory skills that far differ from others because we humans can actually have other pairs of chromsomes which CAN increase our x chromsomes up to five, for males they may have up to four x and two y. but most males remain with xy and and most females remain with xx (: pretty cool huh?
I'm honestly surprised at how long this took. I guess indoctrination from youth is a powerful thing
@@breathoffreshair7795Not how that works. Incredibly misogynistic of you.
@@Waspinmymind thats literal data supported science, please do your part to ensure your arent speaking innacurately. if youd like soemthing to start with: the difference of polymorphic x-linked alleles among the sexes
@@breathoffreshair7795 that's pseudoscience and please don't respond tpo men's sexism and bullshit with ak chew lees about woman's inherent biological superiority, it's just not the case and it gets used a lot against trans people.
Neurodivergence is explained by the x chromosome something something is not even a fringe belief; nothing you described is a commonly accepted conclusion and you sound like you're getting your summaries not from studies or textbooks but from fringe conspiracy websites. Even if part is true the conclusions simply don't follow.
It's not surprising at all. Churches have been legitemately traumatizing for women. My sister was called a witch and interrogated by the board of elders at 15 years old. They also accused her of sleeping around and spread lies about her. My mom was "exorcised" many times for having bipolar and had her past "sins" as a teenager hippie dragged out behind the pulpit many, many times. My dad blew up and disowned/was disowned by every one of me and my sister's, because he couldn't stand us getting boyfriends or just leaving home unmarried. He was mad at me because he didn't get to choose who I married. I've been to a lot of churches in my life and even the milder ones are very shame-heavy for women. It's not surprising at all that women are leaving the church.
What church was this? Not to hate on any in particular they’re mostly not great. But sounds like Mormon? I’m so sorry you all had to go through that. But I’m so happy you all escaped!❤
@@phoenixgirl70 We were mostly UPC (United Pentecostal) in the south, but did go to a lot of nondenominational, baptist, other churches around the country too. We left UPC when I was 16 but my dad hopped around to any church in the area for about 10 years, hanging out in a single church for maybe 6 months at a time before burning bridges and leaving. Me and my sisters also simutaneously attended a calvinist community church AWANA program for years. So my experiences are all pretty spread out, honestly.
@@phoenixgirl70 I'm so happy to be out! It takes a lot of work to learn to not shame yourself for every little thing.
does your church think this is the 1500's 💀💀
Are you… a time traveler from a puritan community in Salem, Massachusetts circa 1692???
Fr tho, that’s so much trauma. wtf
My dad is a southern baptist preacher and has been my entire life. Grew up as a worship leader, very active in church, church camps etc. 20 years of my life spent watching the misogyny and injustices in the name of christianity occur weekly. I moved out and have since deconstructed the past few years. listening to my mom, the preachers wife, tell me what’s going on in church and what she endures is so heartbreaking because she will never be able to remove that veil in a sense. Leaving was the most freeing thing I have ever experienced.
10:26 even the language we use around marriage is so sexist. "Man, wife" Men get married and are seen as mostly unchanged, but a woman gets married and she's no longer an individual woman, she's someone's wife."
wow ive never even thought of that 🤦♀️
I never thought about that either... I'm going to change how I speak on marige I don't want to contribute to that
omg never thought of that. but I always think of how weird "Miss", "Ms" and "Mrs" is.
@@sma4827
It's like fruit in the supermarket. "Ripe to eat", "barely ripened", "Sold" etc. it just makes it sound like they are put into categories that show off their status of availability to potential prospects to make it easier for them to see if they can have the object of their desire or not. It's really weird.
I mean, the whole institution of marriage is the cornerstone of patriarchy, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet. I'd wish women at least kept their own name and would give the children THEY carry, birth and raise their own name.
Men: "We men are attracted to things that are difficult. We like harder truths."
Also Men: **have absolute meltdowns and sometimes deadly outbursts of rage when a woman says they don't want to date him, or call out his bad behavior**
Obligatory not all men, but enough for it to be an issue.
Seriously. Plenty of men got upset of hearing the hard truth that women would rather be around bears than men, and that's a hard truth they can examine and reflect upon. They won't though.
It’s not all men but it is the same large group of men expressing both sentiments.
@@jenniferstorm4037it's enough men for it to be a stereotype tbh, not that the stereotype proves any kind of point about men on a fundamental level mind you, just that being an ass is kind of something they like to praise each other for
@@choryllis6646 there are definitely men who behave like women.
@@sammallory4773 For real. They acted really hysterical for no reason. 😂 I think they are way more protected from ‘hard truths’ than women are. We protect their feelings *way* more and that incident demonstrated that perfectly.
It makes me laugh so hard when pastors and extreme religious people attack men who have longer hair, or wear more feminine clothing, or act meek/timid or kind. JESUS WAS ALL OF THOSE THINGS 💀🙏 he had (at least how most people believe he looked like in the paintings and stuff yk) long hair, wore a robe (they all did, pants weren’t even rly a thing for centuries to come), and IN THE BIBLE was described as meek, mild, and timid, and his WHOLE ASS MANTRA was that he was a super nice guy who died for everyone’s sins. Genuinely shut tf up about that shit dawg 😭
he also was most likely a short king too which is even better. people (christians) believe that jesus was this perfect leading white man that everyone should aspire to be when bro was actually a brown, homeless, shaggy communist.
also, i saw a comment a bit ago that said that jesus probably already had his second coming but was killed by the same people who believe in him most due to their twisted perception of christianity and the bible.
"the meek shall inherit the earth" whomst? pretty sure it was supposed to say "the chadded alphas" actually, translation error.
i mean jesus was anything but timid. he’d openly stand up to religious leaders, flipped tables of merchants in the temple. he stood on business in a time period where it was a death sentence to stand up to religious authority (and he was killed for it)
@@cupdog_spl stop calling short men short King you are acting like being short is a disability. I'm pretty sure fat women don't like being called fat queen they don't even like called fat forget about being called fat queen. I never heard anyone referring a tall man as tall king or anything like that. Also Jesus mabe short by today standard but he was definitely average in his timeline. At this point everyone know Jesus isn't white. We aren't living in the 90s it's pretty obvious a middle eastern man can't be white
One of my favorite things I've ever seen was a Christian pamphlet dropped off at our door, and it had this great illustration of Jesus but he had the short, modern, businessman looking haircut....They were trying to market a more modern looking Jesus, but still in his robes ofcourse. It was amazing. I love business Jesus.
Brilliantly said! As an older woman who was raised in a strict church I feel finally vindicated that women are now re-thinking the church in general. You have such a strong voice and it gives me hope for the future of this country. This was the video we needed!
we learned from seeing the way you were treated. and it is unacceptable my grandmother have horrible stories from church back in the day.
it's somehow surprising to me that christians needed an extra *60 years* past the second wave feminist movement to start realizing "oh this shit is actually bad BAD for women huh?"
They still haven't realized it yet. Maybe in another 15, 20 years.
And it STILL hasn't clicked, this is impressive at this point
@@mammajamma4397 It will never happen because Christianity is inherently misogynist and patriarchal. The source materials are wrought with both. There's no redeeming it tbh
Religions always arrive a bit later than the current mentality and morals ... They're like that kid evereyone has to wait to finish a race
Technically, they still don't think that. They think men are flocking to them, not that women are leaving 🤦
The men in these churches are about to get a crash course in how much the unpaid and taken for granted work women did actually kept the organisation running now they’re not showing up to do it any more.
… the bake sales will just end
@ada babe you're so naive lmfao
Yes! Men who paid lip service to how important 'women's work' is are about to learn the truth.
Yep let’s see how many men will volunteer or even sing in the church choir. They may have to start paying…
@@adarateranroldan I was just thinking about that. They're going to have to buy Entemann's baked goods for their events.
I think that we, women, tend to be more liberal cause we want the same kind of freedom that men have. Freedom to do whatever we want with our bodies without having to live with the constant guilt that the church and religion perpetuate. Having said that, Im happy to live in a moment in history in which men can't control us as they used in the past.
Real it's a little fun watching their slight mental break at women's rights
Globally, Women tend to lean left because they are taught empathy from a young age while men aren't.
Our current freedoms are rightly attributed to liberalism. It’s basic self-preservation. But they expect us to put our own needs to the side in order to advance their interests.
Freedom to be a human just as much as men
@hollisblackwood3276 55% of Christian women go to church that far exceeds men if anything the church caters to the women not the other way around
Christianity is the only religion in America that has more female attendances than men
This man at my church got caught messing with a 17 y/o. The Psstor was furious. Turns out the man had been grooming & etc that particular girl for over 4 years. 2 deacons came forth saying they caught him with their child (separate situations). They each told him if he left their child alone they would not call the police. That allowed him to walk free for years. The girl of course would not testify that it lasted years and the wife cleared what she found. The entire church disbanded after this. So many elders in the church knew he was praying on minors but lied to save face.
Dude when I was a toddler I went to chuch with my grandma in rural kentucky. was the only coloured kid, and they kept me in a crib in the hallway instead of letting me play with the other kids because the parents complained about me "infecting" their kids. I WAS LIKE 4.
Infecting them with what ? Melanin ?
infecting them with what 😭 i know it's just racist shit but like... skin color isn't transferable????
that's another thing. the most religious friends i had growing up were so racist i was genuinely shocked.
That is so disgusting! I don’t know what the hell is wrong with people. Some people have more melanin than others. Period. Imagine if they actually talked to these people and see they’re just the same having the same loves and have the same worries (actually more!) I know it’s taught but the church should be correcting that hate! Especially because Jesus wasn’t white! What a great thing it would of been if those kids got to be friends with you growing up and see their parents were wrong. Excluding a child from playing with others in church is just plain evil.
What ethnicity are you if you don’t mind me asking?
as a teen girl who had recently come to the conclusion that the church does not reflect my values it is incredibly tiring hearing men pondering why women are not going to church and coming to the conclusion that they have weaker faith or need the spiritual aid of a male leader (REAL THINGS IVE HEARD) tbh the reason I no longer call myself a Christian is because I was tired of constantly getting messages from the pulpit that I am of the weaker sex who's greatest achievement is motherhood. I'm tired of never seeing a women pastor my church. I'm tired of messages being written for men with women being mentioned in the footnote. Idk pisses me off
If you ever want a church community there are ones where women lead
When I hear all this, I really wonder why men think of themselves as the rational ones. Not able to simply observe what is actually happening and draw a conclusion out of reliable data.
Good for you. ❤
Good for you! I'm in Europe (a more conservative part of Europe, in fact) and reading the comments here truly feels like a window into 100-200 years ago, how women are treated. I'm relieved to know there seems to be a big awakening going on for women. Hope it spreads far!
😢
"why play misogyny roulette" is exactly it. im not religious anymore but in college i literally WANTED to be. some of that was probably just to please my parents but I thought oh now i'm on my own and not living with my parents, I can find a better church that's more normal, and they wouldn't even know. but then the process of actually doing that, of subjecting myself to the misogyny and homophobia just on the chance there might be some normal people there, was extremely offputting and i gave up almost immediately
I think there are sites like Inclusive faith that list queer friendly churches if you want to attend still. I'm not religious but I hope you find what you are looking for! Best of luck :)
The church is the people. You’ll like some, you won’t like others. Some of those people can create a culture that affects the whole church as a whole, and if it’s not a biblical, you want to avoid it. Church hopping is honestly a sport. You just have to find a church that is Bible based, and where you feel comfortable learning :)
Oh based on the bible thats full of slave owning, saying sodemy is evil, women should marry thier rapists etc etc? Yeah im sure a queer person (or anyone with real morals) can enjoy a space like that! c@@TheNinjapancake14
@@desertels5119 it's an oxymoron the church cannot be queer friendly just pretend to be
@@TheNinjapancake14 Exactly what I came to say. I was raised greek orthodox, then had an atheistic phase and currently consider myself a taoist curious about all religions. I tried going to orthodox church again and while I loved the art, hymns, general atmosphere and the priest was extremely captivating and informative the people where not it. It's all love thy neighbor until the queer kid in a midi skirt with hairy legs walks in. Next church I attended the priest stopped mid service to read a bigoted letter from a higher up and he was so boring the entire congregation was checked out well before it. Anyway will be attending a different church this sunday.
I’ll never forgot how I wasn’t invited to my youth pastors’ wedding but they still expected me and the other young girls to come babysit for free during their reception 🙄🙄🙄
Not your typical commenter on this video (I’m not a Christian) but I feel the EXACT same way about Islam, which is why I left. I was born into it and it was shoved down my throat at every waking moment. Especially after Andrew Tate converted to Islam and gave more Muslim men a reason to act extremely shitty to women. People will yell left and right about how fair and empowering Islam is for women but then in every comment section of a Muslim woman there will be HUNDREDS of comments telling the woman to cover herself up properly or her not wearing hijab properly when she is entirely covered up. So glad to be done with it
Is there anybody in the muslim faith who seriously thinks it`s fair and empowering to women? I mean I would find it hilarious if it wouldn`t be so horrifying to me when people say that. I had muslims making that argument to me, do they seriously believe this?
Same here🙌
@@anthill1510 I think they're too brainwashed and fearful of God to accept the treatment of women. Their book tends to write so called beautiful words about women, but they don't realize it's to distract them from the truth.
@@anthill1510 Sadly yes, it gets indoctrinated young.
@@cinnamon2175 I am totally fine being disrespectful against any religion. Thanks for the reply, though.
Was told for the thousandth time yesterday that I’ll die alone with my cats, as though that’s a bad thing 😂
It’s truly wild a lot of people don’t realize a lot of women are happy to be alone.
Uh, never ending battle between men and cats where cats win every fight so far.
@@ana-nim they really just don't get it. I would feel pity for them if they weren't actively oppressing women.
Like HOW do people not grasp that having the wrong people in your life will lower the quality of your life SIGNIFICANTLY more than you just minding your own business, loving your pets and exploring your interest being single. Do they not know how shitty people can be?😂😂
@@LavenderMike77Because cats aren’t afraid to establish boundaries.
Thinking about how many more women from previous generations would have left the church if they had the choice and if they had a say in it, but couldn't
Yeah when no fault divorce didnt exist, no abortion rights, no right to their own bank account without their husbands permission, reduced access to the work space and day care to support their already existing children.
Exactly. I always wish we could’ve started this movement earlier until I remember women weren’t even allowed to have their own bank accounts until fucking 1970 💀
This is the first time I have seen your channel. What an astute, bright, young man you are. I am 72 and stopped going to church when I was in my late 30's and unmarried. I knew all these things wayyyyy back then, and after I left, never missed it and became a much stronger person. The pity and disdain came from women even more than men. I am so glad young women are so much wiser these days.
Young men today would call a biblically accurate Jesus the f slur.
and other slurs…
If he existed, he would have been a brown, Asian, Jew who advocated for getting money out of religion, paying taxes, total pacifism, and giving away all of your worldly possessions.
They would skip the slurs and go straight to another crucifixion.
It's either that or a racial one. You know how many people forget Jesus probably wouldn't have been white given where he was born?
word
@@Me-vn3gz because he was black :3
I grew up fundie evangelical and boy i could not be more pleased to learn that women's attendance is down since i left. Time to go back and rescue the men! Life is so much better out of dogmatic, shaming religious circles. Also Jesus was a soft boi who hung out with sex workers and other outcasts. He did not have an AK 47 or a podcast about gender roles 😂
"He did not have an AK 47 or a podcast about gender norms" this is the one 💀🗣️📢
Jesus's dad probably would've tho 😅 early testament is v sigma mindset
@@Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh saying og abraham god has a sigma mindset is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read… you’re not wrong tho
No frrr these people do not read the Bible they claim to follow. Heck, one of the tennents is that only God can judge but they like to ignore that and judge people lmao
Also it never sat right with me how periods were seen as impure and unclean in religions 🧐
wut?????
Yep, God has a lot to answer for if He created our fertility and then called it unclean.
@@LaundryFaerie the God of the bible seems to hate us for sure
Even in yoga, you’re not supposed to practice during menstruation.
@@ina7133cuz it was written by men.
I left the church when I saw a bunch of women washing their husbands feet during a part of the service, and if you weren’t married they would simply direct a woman to bathe some strange man’s feet. The pastor wanted me to bathe a man’s feet who was easily 20 years my senior. I flat out refused and informed the pastor that unless the feet belong to Jesus it ain’t happening. At the age of 16, I left the church and chose a more spiritual relationship with God, that excluded the church.
It’s kinda ironic that in the Bible, it was Jesus that did that for other people. Aka. Wash people’s feet. Jesus did an act that was considered so low by the culture of the time, that it was only given to women. Jesus didn’t mind acting like a woman. He didn’t see it as being lesser than because he didn’t see women as being lesser.
Good for you! That washing of feet to imitate a passage in the Bible is demeaning to women. Those men can wash their own ugly feet.
This comment thread is WILD. I checked out of Christianity in childhood (the stories of Abraham and Job did it for me-- I was like "wtf" and my teachers were like "cope"), and I've avoided church ever since-- luckily my parents were very lax. So it BLOWS MY MIND that this kind of mental abuse, discrimination and denigration is happening to THIS MANY PEOPLE, AS THOUGH IT WERE NORMAL. I know church members are only human, but the things commenters are describing are so twisted.
My dad, who suddenly got religion in old age (surprise) is sincerely and desperately trying to get me to accept Jesus and I don't get why he can't understand that I am not interested in anything his god is offering, because why would I be? If a man treated me like God does (egotistical, jealous, telling me I'm nothing without him, telling me I'm intrinsically dirty and inferior, telling me it's ok to do the vilest things as long as I say sorry, punishing me arbitrarily and telling me I have no right to question it, threatening me with boundless torture unless I obey him, demanding 24-7-365 gratitude for everything he's ever given me, demanding total submission and telling me that's LOVE) my dad would tell me to run a thousand miles from a relationship like that! So why doesn't he recgnize the psychological abuse when it's coming from "God"?
That is sickening. I'm now agnostic athiest but no where in the bible was that encouraged. It was Jesus who washed the feet of other people. Just another instance of the church twisting the words and teachings of the bible. Good on you for refusing!
Proud of you ❤
I was a social media manager for a church, and I was basically the only young woman in the staff and congregation. The pastor had a nb furry grandchild though, and they were pretty well accepted, despite the church being united methodist. Rock on furry child.
Hell yeah! Rock on indeed
I'm so happy for that kid 😊
I needed some sort of wholesome comment 😢 I know most Christians take it too far but there are some that actually preach what they teach
It doesn't make someone good for only changing views when it effects them directly.
funnily enough the United Methodist church is one of the most welcoming as a whole compared to most other denominations (welcoming to lgbt+ marriage and pastors, divorce, etc)
What kills me is that in religions like the extremely evangelical ones I grew up in *know* that kids will gain a broader understanding of the world once they get to college and will realize how narrow the perspective they grew up with is. Instead of using this as a sign that these Evangelical religions should modernize and change, they instead start preaching against higher education. I no longer identify as a christian and when I ran into someone I grew up with and told them that in conversation she teared up and said "this is why my mom told us not to read all those books like what you read!". Like my dear that is not the win you seem to think it is. If your religion can't stand up to basic education, you should very much rethink your religion.
I really appreciate that! I've been deconstructing my faith this year and even though logically it makes so much more sense and is so much more freeing as an agnostic, I still have this lingering feeling that I somehow failed because I "lost my faith." As if it's my own fault for learning more and realizing the religion wasn't what it claimed to be.
@@thepockethaven I don't think you ever lose faith. I think you lose religion. You can feel faith even without religion. Faith is doing the hard thing because it's right. Faith is helping someone unselfishly simply because they need help. To me faith isn't something that needs to be invested in a higher power, it's a choice we make daily. It's choosing to be kind, to be selfless, to invest in yourself and your community for the good of everyone. Faith is planting a tree knowing you'll never get to sit in it's shade. I don't know if god exists, but if I was to label anything as "divine" it would be hope and faith.
Education is the ultimate antithesis of the conservative Evangelical worldview. It's also why there are so many Evangelical colleges, because Evangelicals can safely be sent off to get a higher education while still removing what they don't like so no one can pop their little bubble of beliefs.
@@lilykep well put. Sometimes religious institute and the bible itself is bullshit because suprise surprise they were written and enforced by men in power and use religion to control others.
It’s insane. As a person who believes in God, I can say that what you’ve experienced is religious and spiritual abuse. If a religion or group of people in said religion doesn’t want you to think for yourself then it’s abusive. I’m so so sorry you’ve experienced that and I hope you’re healing and happier now ❤❤
At the age of 17, my church’s youth group decided to have student-led branches of the youth team. They wanted a drama department, so with 10 years of theatre experience and being the only long-time and regular member who was even remotely interested in theatre, I thought I was the obvious choice.
They put me in troupe and put a boy in charge. Not only was my family the entire reason he even started attending that church *the year prior*, he was in the acting class that I taught at our homeschool group. I had directed him in two plays by that point.
I walked out when he asked me to warm up the group. I got tired of watching him try to remember rules for the games I had taught him.
It drives me up a wall to this day.
That’s awful, hope you got or get other opportunities to do cool theatre stuff!
This is insane and shld be shared w as many believers as possible. The standards for men are in the gutter and the fact they can’t keep up is their fault and the fathers that supposedly shepherded/raised them into adulthood!!
I hope you left that church.
It’s giving destiny stealing parasite. I’m so sorry. I hope you are thriving
I remember in youth group the leaders being horrified when I matter of factly said that I was a bad person and didn’t deserve anything good to happen to me. Like - that’s what you guys had been teaching me since I was five.
I’m not sure people who haven’t experienced it themselves can understand the peace you gain after leaving church and no longer feeling intense guilt and shame for existing. Even with the narrative of “Your shame is gone with the forgiveness of God! But we will also never let you forget that you SHOULD feel shame. And nothing about you is good.”
EXACTLY!!!
One of the most staunchly atheist people I know is a woman who grew up absolutely infatuated with her religion, Mormonism. Then she turned 16 and expressed her want to be a leader in the church and help promote it. They laughed and told her marrying well and having children was how she promoted the church.
They push their own away🤷
That sounds like a bad case of “ahead of her time.” I think there was a better way to handle the situation than replying with THAT.
And using the word “promote” that way totally undermines how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints operates. Leadership in the Church doesn’t come with better income, more power, or better standing with Heavenly Father. It just means you can handle more and are therefore given more responsibility. And treating that stewardship well obviously comes with rewards. This is available to both men and women.
It doesn't matter if LDS church leadership uses these words or not, because it IS the reality. Women and girls are chattle and breeding stock. Only fit to submit. Boys do survival skills while girls only learn pretty homemaking skills. Screw gender based determinism. Never going back
@@joshuahamilton7630who is this woman. Wld love to see her content. There another female YT that talks abt Mormonism and it is astonishing what those women/communities go through! Learned so much. But not putting that group down because it mirrors what u see women go through all over the world (regardless of their faith)
@@joshuahamilton7630well clearly the men in church don't want a women to help spread their religion 😂
I think it really depends on the congregation. When I turned 16, I was asked to serve as the president of my class. A class that was only me there every Sunday, and occasionally one other girl my age would show up. The leader of our congregation is called a Bishop, and the Bishop's wife came up to me after Church and told me my testimony wasn't strong enough to be a leader.
I was shocked. It felt like she slapped me across the face! Then I got angry. When my Mom got into the car, she saw how angry I was. So I told her what that woman had said to me. Mom was quiet for a second, then said, "Okay. You have a choice to make. You can just laugh at that woman and say, "wow, that says a lot more about her thinking it's okay to say something like that to a 16 year old", and then go on living your life authentic to how you feel. Or, you can let an imperfect person come between you and developing your relationship with Christ. The choice is yours to make."
When she put it that way, I realized I could just lose respect for that woman and keep living my life how I wanted to live it. And I wanted to live it knowing God because I saw too often miraculous things happening to deny that He exists and is very much a part of our lives, whether we have eyes to see or ears to hear.
Every now and again, my mother's words come back to me. It seems to me that the only thing imperfect humans can do perfectly is traumatize one another. There is so much trauma in the world, and I try really hard to be sensitive to people who have experienced religious trauma. I lived in Utah from Thanksgiving 2018 through August 2021, and that was the hardest experience of my life. But it taught me why diversity of thought and diversity of opinion and diversity of cultures is so vitally important!!
Ppl who are attracted to "harder truths" and "toughness" are ppl who usually who benefit from the harder truths or are advocating for the suffering of others. The minute truth gets harder for them, the minute they start to whine.
But also some people have low self esteem. Lots of “manosphere” rules tells men they’re worthless unless they’re handsome, have money, etc, so these guys believe that they’re worthless. But to them, having a system that tells them their exact value is more comforting than accepting that the world isn’t rigid and doesn’t have a system that tells people their worth. They’re emotionally lazy so they’d rather know their place in a black and white world than take on the unpredictability of a gray and nuanced reality. That’s why they need to believe in misogynistic stereotypes so badly, because if women aren’t just going to automatically be shallow towards them because of the situations they were born into, that would mean they’d actually have to put in EFFORT and HOPE into bettering themselves to find a girlfriend, but they’d rather not have any hope so their feelings don’t get hurt.
@@Petrichorus- I agree but not completely. Mostly bc I'm not talking only about misogyny. They're not really taking into account race and other factors. The experience of a Trans Latina immigrant is very different than the experience, and earnings, of a white cis man. Yes, all men, including white men, are seeing their safety nets disappearing and they lack good role models. However, let us not ignore that they are still doing better than most other people. Even if they don't get into college they have more opportunities simply for being men and/or white. Some of the rage is that they feel that they deserve more. They want the Drake lifestyle without being Drake. I do think that low self-esteem makes men vulnerable to radicalism. However, I don't thank all hatred towards women or minorities stems from low self-esteem. Still, I do think you bring a great point. What you say is true.
@@tramasrarasoddplots oh yeah, definitely. Not everyone who believes in this stuff has low self esteem, like you said I feel like most cases come from entitled men who are too full of themselves. I wanted to express that their systems are so predatory that even if men suffer the side effects too, they’re more willing to uphold patriarchy, racism, and radicalism because it’s what they know and makes sense to them.
@@tramasrarasoddplots “they want the drake lifestyle without being drake” is such a good way to put it.
They want the access to women that rich and attractive men have, and feel entitled to benefit from women and other races while boxing them into a life of poverty and less opportunity as a collective (unless they appease WS) all while bringing NOTHING to the table and being unlikeable nobodies. You said all that in 8 words. Thanks
@@Petrichorus-and they will still benefit first even if they stand at the back of the line of men.
Growing up, it was mostly women who volunteered and supported the church.
It really shows how the “virtuous woman” ideal has harmed women in the church. Nowhere in the Bible does God put women down-there are guidelines for both men and women, yet the stricter ones for men are often ignored.
At a friend’s wedding, the pastor’s message felt like a slave contract. The bride, who was clearly going to be the main breadwinner with her education and career, was told she had to obey her husband, who would make all the household decisions. It was strange to watch such a smart, independent woman be reduced to a “wife” simply because he was a “good Christian boy.”
@@marielcolley5656 women have kept the church running for 2,000 years. There are letters written by Roman’s criticizing a local church because the leaders are two slave women. They really did an about face on that one
That's kind of how a Christian marriage works
Sorry, but just because the book doesn’t explicitly call women names does not mean it doesn’t put them down. Paul tells a congregation in his letters that women shouldn’t speak in church. That she needs to be quiet and ask her husband to educated her at home. 😂 What role is that? Shut up and ask your man at home. Get outta here.
“Nowhere in the bible…” from someone whose educational background is in religions…you are either IGNORANT or LYING.
@marielcolley5656 you never read the Bible. The biblical marriage is a contract between two men where a man sells his daughter to another man in exchange for money or goods. And a man can take as many “wives” he can afford to maintain.
So yeah, the ceremony you attended was what the men who wrote the Bible intended it to be.
As a black woman who used to be religious and saw a ton of older black womenfolk uplifting the Church, I wonder if the Black Church is also seeing that dwindling of attendance of womenfolk.
On the topic of church sort of selling suffering is interesting, men seek for meaning trough suffering while women just suffer. Historically and in a modern setting, often sex, birth, periods, physical violence, medical neglect etc. and, additionally work load and emotional labor in excess. I think women learn suffering is mundane and meaningless so having it glorified seams ridiculous, and then you realize only male suffering is supposed to be meaningful to these people, and that might.. you know, make women angry or at least disillusioned with religion.
What’s that quote about how a female Christ couldn’t move the culture for 2,000 years because female suffering is mundane
I'm going to "Yes, and," you here. Yes, men find meaning in suffering, but I think a large part of that is men's suffering being part of the justification they use to maintain power. Like how men being drafted to serve in the military was used as a justification to withhold the vote from women, or just in general the whole vibe of "being a man means being tough and strong and emotionally invulnerable and even sometimes mean and cruel enough to maintain control and not let people take your job/land/women/power from you. It's men being tyranized by the patriarchy, basically.
Meanwhile, women don't gain power over others through arbitrary suffering. The vote was never withheld from men because they didn't have period pains or have to go through labor. We never developed this cult of personality around how us being tough and stoic and violent meant we're the ones built to be in charge of everyone else. You know, "for their own good." For us, suffering is something arbitrary and unnecessary, or something that's being visited on us by those in power over us -- maybe even used as a justification for why we're too weak and helpless to exist out from under their control. So we don't even have that carrot to coax us into defending our own suffering to protect our own little slice of privilege. (With the notable exception of TURFS, who have this motivation and very much equate femininity with suffering and martyrdom for this exact reason.) It's not that women are more altruistic, it's just that patriarchy doesn't offer us that incentive, so for us suffering is generally much more easily recognized as an obstacle to dismantle.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 👀
Absolutely brilliant comment, you've put it perfectly
Wasn't there that one scene in Fleabag where she talks to an older woman who says something similar? That women carry pain in their own bodies, while men don't, so they need to look for it elsewhere?
Kinda like all these boomers who beat and berated their children - and now wonder why they don't get access to their grandchildren.
Your adult child is teaching you about consequences, Mr and Mrs Boomer. Remember how much you LOVED teaching your child about CONSEQUENCES?? You were right. It is important.
This comment is that work🎉🎉😂😂👏👏
Boom! Then, when they hit you with "everybody was doing at the time", we can answer: "if your friend drives off a cliff, do you have to follow just bec. everyone is doing it"?
🧐
THIS.
Church: follow Jesus and do what he said!!
us: feed the hungry, welcome the immigrant, care for children, love everybody? Cool! So how about tax payer lunches for kids, supporting citizenship pathways for immigrants, voting for universal childcare, and unconditional love for my gay and trans neighbors?
Church: *no*, 😡 not like that!!
💯
Except Gen Z men, they are like the new Boomers
The "harder truths' line made me eye roll inside. Christianity has the easiest fucking answers to every life problem - don't do anything even remotely outside of what we tell you to do, else you'll go to hell. But if you do something like that anyway, come back and tell us and we will forgive your sins and you'll be back on track to heaven again. My fucking god.
I mean, it's a *bit* more complicated than that...
Totally agree with OP
They just want dirt on u😂😂
@@NilejavxipIt’s really not?
That is most definitely not what Christianity says. Maybe Evangelical Churches, but not the Bible.
12:30 This reminds me of the one time a pastor brought up abortion and said something along the lines of abortion is worse than what Hitler did. No one looked like they were against what he said.
Because how could a man ever be worse than a woman? Not even genocide qualifies
I grew up in a super accepting, progressive church, and even THAT wasn't enough to keep me in the church. I still felt compelled to leave b/c of the cruelty, hatred, & violence enacted in the name of christianity. it didn't matter that MY church & MY experience was positive; the individual good could never outweigh the corruption of the whole institution. so I left.
I'm seeing this same experience more & more often; women that never personally experienced misogyny & violence in the church are still leaving in solidarity w/ those who have, b/c they understand those experiences of oppression & refuse to stay complicit. but most men don't. they don't understand the oppression. they don't (or refuse to) understand their complicity. so they're more likely to be comfortable staying in a corrupt system b/c it has almost always benefited them. which really scares me for the women still in the church, and the direction in which our society & government is headed.
This is exactly why I left too! My parents always went to very progressive places (for a church), but they still preached about women always being submissive (my parents talked me down for raising my concerns) and once had an entire sermon run by an organization about jailing SWs to preach to and convert in prison... Where they now have a worse record and are unable to leave...
I think it's obvious why I had a huge issue with their methods.
Progressive and church cannot be in the same sentence wtf
Thank you for your solidarity. I grew up in an evangelical church that looked progressive from the outside but that was just the love bomb to get people in before telling them they should change who they really are or else they will go to hell. I'm glad that you got a much better experience and is still understanding and compassionate to people who did not have the same experience. Some people would rather wave the flag of "not all Christians" to force people to stay in toxic environments.
Yes, exactly this! If every church was like the one I grew up in, I might still be religious
Yeah same and I don't even go to church that much. My experiences with religion and church aren't bad but I've seen time and time again how people use Christianity to harm marginalised communities, like women and especially queer women. As someone whose an aroace woman, I'd obviously quit Christianity when so much people choose it to force women into being maid baby machines for men.
They're shocked women are not interested in partaking in an organized faith system where they rank bottom of the hierarchy, whilst men who rank top, stay.
Yes. How very mystifying indeed.
Young woman* not woman as a whole
More women have faith- a sense of meaningful spiritual connection to others in the world.
More men have religion- a set of rules to hold them to a way of living.
If by "hold them to a way of living" you mean they inact archaic ways of living on those demographics like women. Men will never actually follow their own rules.
Organized religion is ultimately the issue. No one cares if someone has religious beliefs, but the implementation of strict dogma to create a hierarchy of in and out groups has and still continues to oppress
Men reach out to religion cause now they're direction-less since they can't oppress women anymore
I always felt it was a set of rules they can enforce on others more than to govern their own lives
*** hold WOMEN to rules. A lot of the men don't even bother trying.
It’s nice to know that someone gets it. Not too long ago I was around so many women who were proud to not be a feminist. I asked “it you have a body and/ or a paycheck, wouldn’t you like a say in what happens to them?” Being a feminist doesn’t mean you hate men. It means you respect yourself.
When I met girls who wouldn't call themselves feminist, I'd ask them, "Do you know what the word 'feminist' means?" And they never did. After we chatted a little further, it ALWAYS turned out that they were feminist after all, whether they wanted to admit it or not.
I'm around a fair number of women who insist that they "just believe in" subservient practices like serving the man of the house (even sons) dinner before everyone else, or not contradicting their man in public, or hiding/downplaying the fact that their wage is higher than the man's. And all of them are single. All that subservient behavior did not even win them devotion-- a devotion that would be highly questionable and depressingly transactional even if they had it.
I totally believe that men wanna have children more than women do
They can just decide to leave whenever they want, they wouldn't risk their lives or have a huge change in their bodies
Męŋ don't like ŵomen and don't like children, but they only want control
@@fixcpuYT is an evil site that won't let you spread your opinions is a crazy take. Maybe you should look inward at why some of the things you may be spouting are not welcome in the communities you're participating in.
Idky the red pill community makes Jesus out to be some alpha male. He, the son of God, demonstrated humility and servanthood.
John 11:35 "Jesus wept" the shortest verse in the Bible yet it does so much to deconstruct the idea that Jesus was some macho alpha nonsense.
And especially when you look at the context. He was crying because his female woman friend was crying! Like... So different from these macho men...
They prefer to kiss a man butt than being civilized with women, nuff said.
I think a lot of them probably grew up going to church (sports) camps like Kanakuk where they repaint Jesus as a rugged buff jock because they're trying to recruit young athletes as a revenue stream
Its a whole weird thing that a lot of heavy hitters in the Christian fundamentalist circles are involved in
@@annamelvina216 jesus was also meek and timid dude was literally a shy femboy with the temper of a volcano and they think he’s a alpha male
Yeah. Except i visited churches who are now redefining "humility" and "servanthood" in an alpha-male way. Literally defining "meekness" as knowing WHEN to "let loose" and when not to and comparing it to being a trained police horse...
As if you needed more evidence of the patriarchy, some churches are literally changing the definitions of words because some stubborn men don't like it.
As someone who has recently decided to leave Christianity and organized religion, this whole "revelation" that women are leaving church is so funny to me. I didn't leave just because I'm queer and nonbinary, or even because I don't believe in God to an extent, but because most churches and most (traditional) Christians refuse to allow themselves to grow and progress along with our culture and society. Things are meant to evolve, and that includes religion and ideologies. Long story short, it's not that serious. Let the girlies leave the church if they want and stop pouting if you aren't going to make the church where the girlies feel safe enough to stay.
I agree. treating scripture as an excuse to uphold systems without allowing space to evolve them as we grow in understanding does not generally lead to a healthy community
the core values of Christianity of loving, supporting, and caring for the larger community are great, but the limitations on what exactly that means without space for including the whole community in the conversation has led to a lot of harm
@albertlassiter8608 The limitation come from men who want power
I have personally come to the conclusion that any god worth worshiping would just want me to be a good person. If a god cares about being worshiped, having a bunch of rules followed, rituals prescribed, and threats of hell and damnation, their probably not worth following even if they exist. 'Prove to me your god is decent' is a surprisingly high bar to hit if you haven't already started drinking the Kool aid
Yep. Crying about the consequences of what they make church to be.
"More young men value the traditional family". "Childless young men want kids more than childless young women". Yeah, and I bet those two things are related. How much overlap is there between men who want women to do almost all of the child-rearing and also who want more kids? It's easy to have kids when you also believe you won't have to take care of them
one of my roommates is a lovely young Christian woman who recently has been taking church and religious studying really seriously. I'm not religious, but I have seen the genuinely great impact religion has had on her. her recent issues have been not finding a true Christian man (we are college students, and she attends church with young college men). every time she thinks she's found someone who will respect and uphold her beliefs, they quickly reveal themselves as not Christians, but just misogynists with an excuse. that's anecdotal, but I've seen the movement too.
Let her know that, if she truly wishes for a husband, may it happen some day, however, may she also know, there is no shame in being alone as, being alone means your entire sight is on God. Once you are married, your focus is on your husband or even your children. While one is single is the short time when one can do their all for God without the worries and burdens that come with a romantic relationship.
I feel like she’s so close to realizing the truth, but just keeps missing the bull’s-eye. Like they’re misogynistic for a reason-they read the same book
This happens a LOT in these environments.
Usually the more Christian a man appears to be in the congregation the more heinous he is.
If she rlly reads the book then she must know it's a misogynistic religion. Literally says rapists should marry the woman they defiled. Plus all the slavery justification and such. You can have an airy fairy new age reading if you want. But the book is nasty and coated in blood
HAHA I’ve heard so many stories, including from people I’ve known personally IRL, who are Christian and looking to date a Christian man to marry, and they get SO Excited when a woman’s profile says they are Christian, or a virgin, or prefer a traditional lifestyle with a man, and their faces DROP when they realize that woman won’t sleep with them until marriage, and they actually have to be worth marrying. Like they expect to take their virginity and not even marry them 💀my brother (questionably) in Christ, what did you think was gonna happen? 😂
My grandmother decided to be come a pastor when she was in her 60s. She graduated and went to several churches and was scorned pretty frequently. She's incredibly left, she got angry when abortion was removed as a right, hates trump and adopts my brother's lgbtq friends and once told someone who was nonbinary that god has no gender and has used they/them pronouns. She's the best grandmother and i think the way christian should think to be. She has no hate and loves every single person.
Tell your grandmother I love her too!
your grandma sounds hella cool
See if people like your grandma were the people running the church, religions wouldn’t be dying out! Plenty of people enjoy religion but are forced out by something (most often prejudice). Most people become straight up atheist from a religious family due to trauma with religion. If the institution isn’t abusive this wouldn’t be a problem! And tell your grandma she rocks! I’m sure many couples would be more than happy to have her officiate their weddings if that’s something she’s interested in doing!
Aaawwwww my heart
I love her❤
Since we moved quite a bit when I was younger, I was also a church hopper. In one, a devout woman was being kicked out of the congregation because she was divorcing her husband who had cheated on her for over 20 years. The husband was not being kicked out because he was, in the words of the pastor, "sorry." In another, I and several other women were SA-ed by one of the pastor's favorite members. Again, that man was forgiven and we were shunned because we had embarrassed the church with our actions (by coming forward with the truth). There's a church down the street from us now (Faithful Word Baptists) that preaches that anyone who is not straight should be shot. I could go on, but I'm not a church-goer anymore. For a religion that preaches love and acceptance, there is too much hate in the organizations that spread it.
I grew up in the church and have a LOT of trauma from it. It’s taken me YEARS to mute the pain.
I was raised without religion. I can't tell you how many people were absolutely floored that I wasn't Christian. Like they literally couldn't comprehend that somebody could be a nice human being without god in their life. I'm glad I was able to show them that was untrue, and also was happy to nudge them in the direction to be more open-minded towards other people.
I have unfortunately lost some friends because of this, but the ones that stuck around I love dearly. ❤️
I’ve heard this same thing, Christians saying you can’t be a moral person without being religious or, what they implied, specifically Christian
@@lilytheflower-4004those people are hilarious to me, as a raised without religious person. They’re admitting that without religion telling them not to they would be murderers and thieves? I’m not a criminal because it doesn’t cross my mind lol, but some of these Christians imply that only the threat of hellfire is holding them back
@@lilytheflower-4004no frr. Like I love my dad but sometimes once in a blue moon he'll say the craziest shit,and one time bro comes out saying something like "well if you are atheist then how will you know what is moral" as if now that I don't have a doctrine to follow I'm gonna go murder a man and not feel bad about it or smth??
I’ve had a similar experience while in summer school. I was in for English and I don’t know how it came up but I said I was an atheist and these two girls were flabbergasted.
They also confused it for agnosticism which I corrected. They seemed like nice girls throughout my time in summer school, not too loud, never really mean but yeah. Completely agree.
I'm atheist, and there have been so many times that people told me, "You must be Christian". People CAN be nice, sincere and practice good morals without the threat of eternal damnation, y'all!
As a woman in academia (STEM related), the amount of times I've been disrespected and had to pick up after men's slack in general is through the roof. Not to mention that if you ask for a raise or something, you have to justify yourself. We have members of our team that literally cry every year "I'm too stressed, I need a raise" and they get one, they are also all men. You're also hard pressed to request time off and 'leaving the team hanging'. And once you're done being gaslit to oblivion and decide to leave, they, just like your ex, have no idea why you 'suddenly' left out of nowhere.
"men seek out hard truths"
Yes the hard truth, that no matter what you do in your life skydaddy loves you and thinks you're his special little man. Such a hard hard truth you've got there lmao
The quote about men liking to hear harder truths is about hearing cruelties against outgroups, not about hearing harder truths about themselves. "He wants to hear messages about the wrath of god" is about hearing hellfire wished upon everybody else. He is getting all aroused by the idea of other people being punished.
I watch the Evangelical spaces and they ramped up their rhetoric for cruelty against non-believers a lot lately. They are talking about womens empathy being a liability because women won`t want to enforce cruel punishments as much as men.
IFKR LMAOOO. And they call women delusional
@@anthill1510 maybe women should start I mean we do raise these boys into manhood. We can change how we raise them.
They seek out hard truth until someone tries telling the truth about them lmao
@@ladybug3380how bout we just stop having kids all together.
The ironic thing is, the reason why women loved Christ so dearly and followed him was because he saw past tradition and saw them as wbo they are, human. Not cattle, not property, not baby factories, but human.
The ironic thing is that people who use the name 'Jesus' most often are such hypocrites that they are turning everyone off of Jesus' message.
Literally. My entire upbringing, I was taught about how Jesus reached out to the disenfranchised and outcast. It's utter lunacy to me that people would see the religion as anything _but_ supportive of those who face discrimination.
“We should be suffering” is such a strange message. Everyone is going to suffer in life, fam, it’s not something you have to seek out
Exactly! I’ve seen and been through so much just by being alive at this time. I don’t seek to add more to my plate lol
I think the Christian mindset is sadomasochistic
I’ll never forget in my “World Religions” class how the professor asked on the first day, “Would we be moral creatures without religion?” and my Atheist-since-childhood ass was like “Yeah of course” meanwhile the rest of the racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/conservative class said “No.” The fucking irony.
They're the kinda people who resort to utter carnage soon as the teacher leaves the classroom because there is no one there to enforce the rules anymore.
If you needed a set of rules to be good, you were never good to begin with, you were only compliant in fear of repercussion, not due to your nature.
The fact that they need religion to be decent is a reflection of them. I’ve often heard people say they are good because they don’t want to burn in eternal damnation, which is just…scummy imo. You should be a good person because you WANT to be.
this is an incredibly interesting topic for me from a purely biological standpoint. human beings naturally do not enjoy hurting others. think about how many veterans have ptsd from war. from either killing or watching people be killed. think of the statistic of how little people actually shot their enemies during our first wars. when we see other humans as people, it goes against our nature to hurt them. that is why mr german painter did so much damage, he taught the soldiers not to view their enemies as people, therefore it was easier to kill them. we are social animals, we thrive around other people. we experience sympathy and empathy completely naturally. i mean a majority of social animals do not go out of their way to hurt each other and most of them don’t even have the complex emotional intelligence we do. i genuinely think being ‘good’ people is instinct
edit: sorry i never actually got to my point-i do not think it is religion that teaches people to be ‘good’ people. i think we are born that way. it is obviously possible to corrupt our view on other people but that is because we are social animals. we want to belong. so we definitely can and have skewed our beliefs if it means we can be apart of a community
I'd heard a Christian at one point when I was a kid say that God made atheists to show Christians that you didn't need to believe in God to be a good person. I got the sentiment, but even as a kid I thought it was an odd thing to say. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized, it's so very self-centered. Regardless of what was meant, phrasing another person's *life* as a personally built lesson just for you is unhinged and not right.
@@mr.bingusthecat100%
My Episcopal friend goes to a trans supportive church and I always just think, wouldn’t less women and queer people leave if more churches were simply progressive and safer?
but then how will they preach hate and fear 😱
@@mathewwilliams6801They may have no choice but to actually read the Bible. Horrifying
i dont even believe in christianity and stuff (atheist) but its just SO SO SO heartbreaking that you have to go out of your way to find a church that won’t hate on you /srs
like wtf why aren’t all of them accepting, doesn’t your god tell you to put acceptance first??
^^^^^ this. considering jesus hung out with marginalized people and was strictly opposed to theocracy. but yanno. it’s convenient for the Vatican as a corporate entity which it absolutely is.
Sounds like you don’t know why religion was created, oppression.
As a teen, the woman who taught the teen girls bible study told us that when she went to college, she "strayed" and drank and partied. And she slept with a man and got pregnant. And the church made her APOLOGIZE on stage, in front of the congregation. Crying and all she had to ask THEIR forgiveness. I never wanted to come back. My heart still hurts for her. She thought this was acceptable. She deserved better.