Yes. They can. They are also an intricate part of having a relationship with God. Finding the right church, and the right balance, is the tough part 🤣 But I trust God will lead you.
I am so sorry this happened to you. It shouldn’t be this way. But I understand that sometimes it is. Don’t let the bad in others spoil the good in you. God has more for you. Again, I am really sorry to hear that your experience has done this to you.
You should pray about starting a home church! My parent's had one at their house and it was such a solid foundation for my faith. After dealing with a lot of what this video touches on for about 6 years now, my husband and I decided to go back to home church and we're so happy we did. It's a complete biblical way to gather and it's so enriching. God bless ❤️
Out of the 4 churches I’ve been in in my lifetime I’ve had 3 churches that were abusive in some way, one wasn’t even from leadership, but now I’m in an amazing church. There are good ones out there. ❤❤
My wife and I recently decided to worship at a different church. We were leaving silently. We were not trying to detract from what the church was doing. When my wife confided in one of the women pastors of the church of our desire to leave she was removed from the female church community group. Is just supposed to be about sister hood and supporting one another in prayer and fellowship. So now, she is cut off and ostracized. The body of the church of Christ is bigger than one church.
Hey Douglas. You are so right. The Body is one global movement - God’s Kingdom on earth. The divisions and ostracizing you reference are certainly not God’s plan for His church. I am really sorry those people treated your wife this way. That hurts bro. You wife had a sense of community, a sense of security, and a place of belonging there. Once she no longer served “their” agenda, they penalized her by removing those from her life. The transition out of something like that is painful. Someone reading this who hasn’t experienced it may think it’s small or silly. But when that’s your world and you lose it, it hurts deeply. I do know that you eventually walk out of the other side and reestablish healthy relationships with new people in the body of Christ. You look back on these moments as blips on the radar of life. In other words, it truly (and deeply) feels like a mountain right now. But one day, it will feel like just a bump. I pray God lead you and your wife forward my brother. Trust God through the transition. He will heal. And He will direct your path.
@@AaronJDaigle Thank you for the words of encouragement. As the spiritual leader of our family, I was the one who ultimately decided that we were not going to worship their anymore. It had to do with being convicted by the Holy Spirit that most of the instruction that was being given was an hour talk of opinion backed up by only one verse in the Bible and that verse being taken out of proper context. Additionally, the pastor would take jabs at me from the altar, saying "I don't care whether you agree with me or not theologian...the door is that way..." He wouldn't point to me but I am the only one who matches that description in his congregation. I asked many times for opportunities to serve and wasn't even allowed to help in even cleaning up. Ultimately, because I didn't grow out a bird, shout at the top of my lungs, and act with lots of bravado and machismo, I wasn't masculine enough and was probably concealing something in their opinion. I ultimately told my wife we are under God's covering and protection, not an overbearing and abusive pastor.
I thought I was misunderstanding and I found some even joking and finding it funny to stand by people that abuse I stayed silent too long and couldn't do it anymore
I have noticed control words, I could feel like ropes bind me up! Pastors have no authority over you! You don't need covering, You report to commander in Chief, Jesus. ❤
Folks, a verse worth noting >> James 1:27 KJV ( Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.) God does Not dwell in handmade temples plus Jesus said let No man deceive you😮
You dont need a pastor's release to leave a church. If you want to stop going to a then go to a different church. A pastor does not control when you decide to stop going to a church.
I agree. In healthy cases, I’d ask for his input. I like getting other viewpoints on major life decisions. “But hey what do you think about…” and “Can I…” are two totally different things. In an unhealthy situation, I wouldn’t even ask for advice. It’s best to just leave.
I left the church where I grew up in. No one reached out to me even though I had been there all my childhood. I feel like they were all fake friendships and I was taken advantage of my chatty self and people wear just pretending to be my friend. I find that I don't really have a desire to go to church anymore as I struggle with trust. I would rather spend time with people who I actually enjoy being with rather than fake friendships.
This is a hard place to be in. Your entire world was ripped out from under you. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Trusting after getting burned isn’t easy. I pray God lead you to the right friends and connections who will value you as much as you value them.
I did. (And I’d suggest in most cases it’s not only ok but is in fact necessary). You need to go lick your wounds for a while. Just don’t die in the cave. Reconnect (and you’ll have to force yourself to do it almost) with a healthy church. But yes, give yourself some time.
Wow ! You are so right on. Been thru all this in a few churches. The things you are speaking of is plain old manipulation. So glad I woke up and will NEVER ALLOW myself to be fooled again. I also feel it was my fault to for not knowing my God’s heart for me. I should have left way sooner, it has taken me years to recover from such betrayal.
You’re not alone in this. When we’re in it, we swear it’s right. But once we get out, we Know it’s wrong. Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted. I know it feels like a waste. But the insight you have know makes the rest of your life so much better. Keep moving forward my friend.
Finally! Someone who is calling out these horrible behaviors in church leaders! Thank you. I could give you examples of every single one of these 12 forms of abuse. I haven’t been to church more than a handful of times in the past 12 years.
Hey Crystal, thank you. I def wrestled with whether to do this. For years before doing it actually. So yeah, thank you. I pray you’re doing well. That your walk with God is still vibrant despite the circumstances. Things don’t always turn out like we hoped. But when we walk with God, they always turn out.
More than half of my church has left and my husband died just over a month ago, those still at the church who had expressed a wish to go to the funeral, were told by the pastor that if they went to my husband’s funeral then they would be kicked out of the church. Those of us who have left now realise we were in a cult. He has slandered all of us, there is no structure in the church and he had to micro manage everything. He was very passive aggressive and I believe is a covert narcissist. This is the 2nd church I’ve been spiritually abused in.. those of us who have left are meeting in homes right now… it’s been an extremely traumatic experience. Particularly since my husband died, he did a sermon where he ‘insinuated’ my husband was a false christian and is in hell…. I found that to be particularly disturbing and sick. He did say to me once that the Lord will judge between him and me, and I agree… I believe all those leaving the church are proof that the Lord is judging him and how he has continued in his pride and arrogance and some others are starting to wake up.
Hey my friend. I’d first like to express my condolences for your husband. I can’t imagine how you must feel during this loss. To hear that the church made those insinuations about him is sickening. I’m sorry you had to experience the confusion, anger, and embarrassment that resulted. The beauty is that you’re still meeting with other believers and are finding a way to be an active part of the body of Christ in spite of what you’ve been through. Thank you for sharing your story. My heart and prayers are with you and your family during this time.
@@AaronJDaigle Thank you… please pray for us as we now navigate this path the Lord is leading us down, and that we remember to do His will and not ours with regards to starting a new fellowship/church. Pray for the men who will be leading, that they have wisdom and discernment to structure the church where we are all accountable to each other and most importantly to the Lord, so that we don’t end up in the situation we were in before where our pastor was accountable to no one. I just know that as long as we trust and keep our eyes on Jesus, He will make sure we are where we need to be and the ministries that are needed will grow. Thank you and God bless you for the work you do in helping those of us getting through this kind of spiritual abuse.
Many are meeting in homes. Perhaps starting what we need in preparation for the coming tribulation. Nothing God does is by accident. True Christians being chased out of churches.
I have severe trauma from a evangelical free church. It was at the most vulnerable point in my life and created a lot of hurt and damage, all because I happen to attend another church. It was a very hostile and toxic environment I was not made to feel welcome. The experience was horrific and I attend the church of my choice and where I feel safe but the exoerience has still scarred me.
Hey! I am deeply sorry that you experienced this. It’s definitely not something easy to heal from. And the trauma is very real. I am glad to hear though that you have found a good church home and are picking up the pieces, moving on, and finding your way. That takes tremendous strength to trust again after getting burn. Keep the faith and may God lead you on.
I am in”leadership” at a UPCI church now and this is my struggle. It has been happening for about 10 years now and my pastor has become only accessible when it benefits his own personal kingdom. I recently took a very important concern to him and have been ghosted completely. The good news is that my family sees it for what it is and are ready to prayerfully move on.
@@evanjames8748 i'm in so called leadership too in a upc church. those with money and yes men seem to be rewarded. we are also used for our talents and are expected to be on the ready all the time. vacations, days away with family and breaks are frowned upon.
I have been so abused by the current pastor that I have sat under for the past ten years that I no longer trust any pastor. For me, it is painful just to go to church any more. I want to leave but am terrified of the very notion.
Hey my friend. I know exactly where you are. As in, knowing we must get out but being terrified of what will happen if we do. I stayed stuck for years bc of this. Literally yesterday though (and it’s been a good 7 years (give or take) since I’ve been out, but I was walking my dogs and literally said to God in prayer “thank you so much for getting me out of that church.” Everything in my life is better know. Everything. It didn’t feel that way immediately. But you see the light over time. I pray God give you clarify, Grace, and boldness to make the move you know you need to make.
I have recently left a church I was in bondage to for 21 years. I was in constant anxiety of hell and felt so trapped. I couldn't enjoy life, the company of other people, or anything anything because I felt so watched and loomed over. Worse, I was starting to develop a bitterness toward God because of what an ugly picture my former church painted of Hin. Now, however, I am finally free. Praise God I am free!
I am so glad to hear that you were able to separate your view of God from your view of the fake church. Not everyone is able to heal to that degree. This is painful stuff man. And it leaves its scars.
A Pentecostal leader was trying to get me to join his small church. When I didn't, he remarked about my mother who was born again. He told me that she was more off a Methodist than a Christian. I call that one form of coercion and abuse.
This happens a lot in YWAM as well. I experienced almost everything you mentioned here in YWAM in Argentina, but there are so many stories from bases in many parts of the world where there’s alot of spiritual abuse going on. So glad I got out of it and am resting in the true gospel of grace and have found so many good channels helping to process it, like this channel. Thank you
Yeah, it happens in organizations just like churches. (Businesses and family dynamics too, unfortunately) I’m happy that you yourself got out and, not only that, but recalibrated and found a healthy path in Christ. Keep the faith my friend. And fight the good fight.
Thank you for sharing your experience, I’ve experienced this and haven’t been able to articulate it or even talk to anyone about it because everyone seems like they’re “yes men” and I sense that I’ll be viewed as the problem.
You prob would be viewed as the problem for speaking up. That’s how they keep us silent. God, however doesn’t tell us to fight every battle. So He may direct you to leave it alone and get away. He does tell us to fight some things, however. Only you know which is right for you in this context. More generally, I am sorry to hear you’ve had to experience this. I do know this. God can’t trust everyone with this kind of trouble. He has a purpose for you and allowed you to walk through this to bring you out and to bring you up. You are made for more. And I believe you will walk in all of it.
That’s what sort of happened to me with a church I went to. I spoke to the pastor’s wife about the women’s Bible study and basically asked her if I did something wrong to her personally. She tried to make me feel horrible and make me look like such an angry person for bringing it up. She got very defensive. I understand she had a hard life, but when I tried telling her I needed some grace, she brushed me off and told me she needed grace, too, and I did tell her she was right about that. I tried standing up for myself though, but man it was a mess. A lot of yes women around her too since she’s the pastor’s wife. A lot of women at the church defending her and not saying anything when she says something hurtful to someone else. And I think I was kicked out of their meals ministry, too. I know not all pastors and their wives are like this, but it never makes me want to meet one ever again. That’s ok though, we weren’t friends anyway.
It’s ok to tell someone they are wrong. You just have to deal with the consequences of telling them (Proverbs 9:7). But as for your specific situation, my heart and prayers are with you and your family. I know it feels like your world is being ripped out from under you. Jesus, however, will see you all through it.
Facts! Right on point. Not long ago I learned that spiritual abuse is existent. More people need to watch your video. Anything in Spanish? Sadly, spiritual abuse is something that exists and not a lot of people are aware of and so members ignorantly take on the abuse because they somehow have been convinced to somehow idolized the leader, have become confused, and lost focus of God’s word. Additionally, if members question a decision/ proposal/ narrative of the leader, the member is categorized as being spiritually ill and disobedient to God. Great video!
Thank you so much. Y no tengo recursos en español por ahora. Lo mejor es usar los subtítulos. Pero según Dios, los libros que publiqué serán disponibles en español en unos de estos días.
These are all issues I noticed in the church and these are also things that seem sort of taboo to talk about. All churches/pastors are not this way however it does seem like a problem that didn’t get spoke on enough
Hey it's simple stupid, get born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, He will show you what church to go to. If you're going to church just to punch your time card, get someone to preach how good you are & make you feel good, to think that going to church will get you to heaven or just because it's the biggest mega church in town & popular, then that's your sign you're probably not born again. Hey! Wake Up! The pastor, preacher or teacher isn't an idol, you ain't going to church to please the preacher. If you ain't got the Holy Spirit you won't have discernment & could be sitting in a useless church. Your pastor is there to preach what the Holt Spirit gave him & if it ain't lining up with scripture, what God's Word thru the Holy Spirit has been showing you then this maybe your sign. When you've been studying a topic, go to Sunday school and that lesson lines up & then the preachers message lines up then this could be your sign. Now, if your preacher is preaching in anything but the KJV then you ought to study translations & listen to the Holy Spirit.
I served for over 20 yrs at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley. Our founding pastor was Francis Chan. In the 12 yrs since he stepped away, Cornerstone has slowly sunk into classic spiritual abuse as you described. So many people have left (literally thousands) that there has been an emergence of reverse judgement towards those that stay in that abusive church. We're all in need of a savior!
Man there’s no feeling in the world like giving yourself to something for 20 yrs that falls apart on you. Truly sorry you’ve had to walk through this. And I love your conclusion. We all need a savior. Pointing ourselves and others towards Christ, no matter the circumstances. 👍
Yep, we're all in need of a savior. That savior calls us out of these pagan temples to follow HIS voice and hear HIS understanding. Without leaving these pagan temples we will never be pleasing to God or experience His salvation.
You and your family have really went through some things in church! So glad God brought all of you through and you are stronger in Him. Unfortunately, everyone does not survive church abuse without being wounded, hurt and never wanting to go to anybody's church. You are on point about everything ou shared.
Thank you for understanding. And yes, not everyone makes it through. Perhaps even the majority don’t. My hope is that, through these videos on the Church Hurt playlist, we can increase the number of people who do.
Uugggh im going through this right now🥺🥺😢 I was fine at church until my pastor started getting too into my business by trying to control me and what I do with my life. Controlling me by telling me not to go to Starbucks to have fun. I enjoy going to coffee shops. Apparently I’m a sad depressed lonely young lady because I enjoy going to Starbucks many times during the week. Don’t see how that makes me lonely because coffee shops are relaxing and are filled with many young people and older people. He’s already embarrassed my parents many times during Sunday service by doing that thing when you tell him something and then in front of everyone he complains and judges you over what you said to him and yet everyone else doesn’t know it’s about you but yet the pastor is staring directly at you in front of everyone. I just don’t understand why people are like that. I hope that if I do leave, he doesn’t curse me and my family. When two ladies were “released,” they announced it to everyone on Sunday and talked badly about them.
Wow. I am so sorry you have had to walk through this. It sounds like it’s been difficult for you, and embarrassing for both you and your parents. Proverbs 26:2 promises you that he CAN’T curse you if you leave. When you read that verse, the devil will try to tell you “yea but you deserve it,” but I assure you you don’t. Nobody in the Bible was ever curse for leaving an unhealthy situation in search for a better one. Only you can decide if you need to leave. But I can tell you for a fact that nobody can curse you if you do. Also, in Numbers chapters 22-25 (give or take) there is a story about Balak and Balaam (one hires the other one to curse Israel), but he can’t! Read it and let God free you from that stronghold of fear that is keeping you stuck in a place God may be trying to get you out of.
I swear my pastor is exactly like that. So what I do is I nod as if he isn't talking to, then look as if I am disgusted by that person. I'm an Atheist now though, Pentecostal churches can really damage you emotionally
I hope you left that harlot house aka a "church". The scriptures are clear that none of these hireling shepherds are of God. They are all blind guides who draw away disciples after themselves. As it is written, let God be true but every man a liar. This whole system is referred to as the great whore in the scriptures. God's elect don't attend these pagan temples and they certainly don't follow the traditions and doctrines of men. His sheep hear His voice, just like the scriptures say, they don't follow strangers.
Galatians 3: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. No one can trump that. Your "pastor" is/was a fraud, plain and simple. Here are the words of a REAL SHEPHERD: I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of His Body, which is the church. (Colossians 1)
WHATS SO AMAZING IS CULTISH PASTORS NEVER ENCOURAGE YOU TO SERVE OUTSIDE OF THE FOUR WALLS OF THE CHURCH. IF WE ARE JUST SERVING IN THE CHUCH WALLS HOW CAN WE HELP THE LOST?
God’s plan is for us to be the church, not just go to church. We are supposed to connect with other believers and seek God together. But church is who we are, not where we go.
When a Pastor returns from vacation and admonishes the church for reducing their giving while he/she was gone.. and demands tithes and offerings to pay for their vacation “that” is abuse
This was great thanks dealt with some of this myself. I was told if I leave I’m causing division in the church and I would basically be on spiritual merry go round and have to get back on where I jumped off just like all the others who left the church and came back.
It’s not divisive if you leave a church to go to another one. A lot of churches take Bible verses of divisiveness out of context. Being divisive is when a false shepherd (pastor) or member creeps into the church with destructive heresies and divides the church that way. For example, Christians are to believe in the Holy Trinity. If others try to dismantle this Biblical doctrine, then out they go. Churches shouldn’t have to put up with that nonsense. But, if you find a different church to feel home at, that’s not divisive. That church has control issues and tries to fear-monger and manipulate their congregation to stay at their church because it’s “better” than others. It’s so foolish for a church to manipulate their congregation from going to visit other Bible teaching churches.
Hey . I’ve experienced spiritual abuse at the hands of the lead pastor at my church, to the point where it became physical abuse tonight at my son’s basketball game. He laid hands on my son, and when I approached him about it, he began getting physically aggressive with me, laying hands unwanted hands on me shoving me and yelling in front of the whole gym. The cameras in the gym did not have the angle to see it after the police said they investigated concluded that he never touched my son (my son insists that he did and he’s not lying and there are witnesses) . He was trying to goad me knowing I’m a trained Marine but I held restraint through the whole ordeal as he was coming at me. I know know that his immediate act of aggression and battery was an attempt to egg me on to throw a punch. Which I didn’t. But I need to talk to someone who’s been through this. I don’t know what to do. He’s the untouchable pastor of a church. I need to know what to do. I’ve been praying and listening for God.
Ryan in your case, given that physical abuse has occurred, I think your next steps are clear. You leave and you take your family with you. I know, easier said than done. But you’re in a situation that has paced the point of resolve. (Side note, much props to you for keeping your cool in a situation like that. That takes a real man to pull something like that off 👍)
All of this is correct in our experience in a IFB - many people hurt and their manipulation was spiritual abuse. The truth will come out and many knew and covered it up and continue to lie for him. (KMears sin, his families sin and their coverup and manipulation and lies continue).
Hey my friend! It’s not an easy thing to go through. For sure. I know it’s hard to recalibrate after experiencing this. I pray in time you and your family are able to heal. And to trust again. In the meantime, my heart and prayers are with y’all. And again, I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
I am experiencing number 3 right now in a church that refused to support me in seminary. Also, I am being talked about because I accepted a pastoral residency and did not ask my pastor to do so. I do not need a pastor to tell me when it is God or not. I think when someone gets called it should be celebrated. However, that is not the case. The way I deal with it is that I do not to fellowship with them. However be open to fellowship when they repent.
Hey Isosori. It sounds like you’ve made bold moves and are paying a price for it. Not everyone will agree with you. That’s ok. Walk on. If you’re right, God will confirm it overtime. If you’re wrong, God will catch you when you jump. He will redirect your course. Trust Him. And keep moving forward.
I went to a year lomg discipleship program that was to help people get off drugs or overcome life controlling issues. Submission was emphasized big time. I believe we are to submit but not out of manipulation. I kept telling the leader of the house im being attacked spiritually and inwas not taken seriously. Even the pastor wouldn't really take it seriously even tho he believes in spiritual warfare. I know God called me to the deliverance ministry but this fellowship seemed to be dimmming my light and zeal. They couldnt keep quality obedient people there so i was out fundraising from sun up til sun down. There was nobody else to fundraise because nobody else could be trusted with money. There were times we would get back late and have to get up two hours later to do it all over again. Basically you walk around and sell bags of popcorn telling people of the cause. This ministry will buy you a bus ticket to get to them. They seem to care but i believe something wasnt right. I felt like if i mentioned the word demon i was saying a bad word. Also we werent allowed to watch certain preachers. I was loving the ministry but i didnt like how they discredited me and the revelation God gave me about the devil. I would tell them the bible says to know our enemy. Anyway i left and before i left my house leader basically spoke death over me saying ill nevrr succeed. I felt God wanted me there but and i felt like i lost my salvation whem i left. I left out of nowhere. It was weird. I want to fulfill my calling. I love the people there still but i cant help but wonder if i was in the wrong place.
My friend, it sounds to me like you were in the wrong place. (Unless God had you there for a season to develop you) But the fact that they spoke death over your life’s ministry, saying you’d never be successful, when you left is a clear indication to not go back. I pray you find the next stops/place on your journey and that God ultimately use this experience to give you even deeper insight into the deliverance ministry He is developing in you.
Man man man, I wasn’t in a church but i was under someone but everything was on the phone. I know it sounds crazy but I’ve only ever spoke to them over the phone but I trusted them. I was told I couldn’t hear from God because I was too new to know his voice. I was told people who pulled away always ended up coming back because they can’t mature elsewhere. I was told that if I left that covering Satan would devour me. I was told things about people and it caused division. I began to feel like it was better than these people because I was being told about them. I was told when I didn’t agree it was the spirit of rebellion and I was a baby Christian so I just wasn’t mature enough to know. Even when i would bring up scripture i was told my Bible was wrong because it wasn’t made before a certain time and all the Bibles after that year they gave me we’re incorrect. I remember when I first got under this person my husband and I had gotten into an argument (I was angry and didn’t understand forgiveness) my husband called them to minister to us through this small disagreement. They told him to apologize and he did but I ignored him and would not respond. They got angry and told my husband to walk away because I had “willed my soul to satan” I was terrified. I remember disagreeing and anytime I did during the weekly call we all had they would bring it up but not mention me but bring it up to get everyone else to agree with them. I was told if I didn’t tithe I’d be cursed. I felt like i was in chains there
Erika, you have experienced something traumatic. I am so sorry this happened to you. I notice you are writing in the past tense so I’m assuming you’re out of this environment. I pray you and your husband have gotten through together, that you heal from this abuse, and that God redirect you into His plans and purpose for your life.
@@AaronJDaigle I just officially told them I was walking away about two weeks ago. I was under a Prophet/evangelist so now I have the feeling like God will be upset with me. I can’t stop thinking that “what if it was me” or God is about to punish me. I don’t speak negatively about this person, say their name, name the ministry or personally attack them. I just tell what was done to me but I was constantly told “Don’t touch my anointed” so I’m trying not to walk in fear. I do have faith that God won’t just leave me but you know how that goes. I guess it’s just a process.
@@Erikap358 Yes, it is (a process). And what you were told was part of the manipulation tactics used to keep people from leaving. As you grow in your healing, you will also grow beyond those fear tactics that were used against you. I promise.
A hazardous situation happened to my family. My dad took my brother to church after their baptizing my brother told the church untrue and horrible schizophrenic things about my dad. My mother was abused by the Morman church as a child and has cut off all church congregation forever. My brother keeps harassing my mom about how her brother who passed away when she was a teenager is at his church. And that my parents aren’t his parents. And that my dad did horrible things to him. Where is this coming from? He stolen our family photos. Loaded a virus to my dads laptop.
Man I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I don’t have the answers as to where this is coming from. This is not of God. I’m praying with you about this situation.
Higher places ministries in Vineland NJ dug up my past after I donated music gear for their food bank then got asked how much I was worth in dollars and cents after being diagnosed with Cancer COPD and MS in 2019
So many correlations. I am curious if you have a video about the friends you lost, the people you worked with or who you were close to in the church community that believed the pastor’s story?
I am very sorry to hear this. It’s so sad that many of us have had to walk through this. I pray you’re at a better place now at this new season of your life. 🙏
So true. That was part of why I struggled so long before doing the videos. The world is so antagonistic towards biblical principles and the church. And so many Christians/pastors/churches love God and people. They do it for the right reasons. Those are not the ones these videos are about. And yes, the ones the videos ARE about, rely on people’s attendance as a badge of merit, a way to prop up their own importance, a means to become the next big name megachurch pastor.
Do you think if the pastoral team expects you to be available all the time for whatever they want you to do even when you have not yet becomes a licensed pastor that this is toxic? It feels like a disrespect of my life and specific calling and time. “We expect you to be at both services and say yes to everything.
@@AaronJDaigle The language that was used was : “ hey we want to give you more pastoral duties and we want people to see you as a Pastor so we want you to be the Director of this and the leader of these two teams and be here for both services on Sunday teach a class on Wednesday even though you work a full-time job”
One pastor at my church said you couldnt get filled with the holy spirit if you first dont submit to the church leadership. What do you think about that?
It doesn’t matter what I think about that. The Bible teaches on that. Acts 2:38, for example, says to repent and be baptized in Jesus’ name. And then says you “shall” receive the Holy Spirit. Shall is will, not might. And it doesn’t say anything about submitting to church leadership in that verse, nor do other parts of scripture. What was told you was a mismatching of some scripture with other scripture to try to say one thing that neither of those scriptures say.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
I attended a church in Racine, Wisconsin. The Open Bible church, Souls Harbor on Wright Ave. A couple went to Bible College at night. Got thier degrees. Wanted to be used more in the church for advancing the kingdom. They approached the Pastor. Nothing came for them. So they left. Found another church. The Pastor and his wife went to talk to them to change their minds. But to no avail. They never came back. So after that meeting the Pastor, from the pulpit, in front of over 300 people, declared..."Because they have left this church, it's like they now have one foot in Hell"...needless to say in the next few moths probably 50 people left that church. I remember the preachers wife at the organ very visibly shaking her head in a no-no nod at what her husband said.
Well, thankfully his wife sees through it. That’s helpful. And it sounds like a bunch of other people do too. It’s sad that things like that are said over the pulpit. Jesus does not use the pulpit to condemn people to the hell He died on a cross to save them from.
None. God does not control people. The devil does. (That's not to say in appropriate cases that your pastor should not advise you on this subject. We often go into dating blindly and get burned because we overlook the signs that those around us can see) Counsel is good. Control is not.
My ex church still contacts me, I'm still in all their groups and they never discuss people in the groups. I remember how they even came to my rescue when I was in need even though i no longer attended the church. Then when I left another church they stopped talking to me, i visited the church and no one even spoke to me. The pastor warned them no to have anything to do with me.
this is a great video ... there is massive use of tactics and jabbing ... read Acts 20 ... there is an incredible pattern laid out for true shepherding ... this is what some call the "Pauline pattern" which is under heavy assault, by those who don't conform to it the Pauline pattern is the basis for successful church and is actively assaulted by the wolves ... the first line of attack on the Pauline pattern is that is falsely called "Paul worship" ... Paul's sufferings are captured in Scripture and are to be preached with regularity, clarity and emphasis ... in fact, the first thing we hear Jesus say about Paul in Scripture is this ... "... I will show him how many things he must suffer for my name's sake." here is the constant/abiding call to the Pauline pattern (Philippians 3): Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, AS YOU HAVE US FOR A PATTERN. For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame-who set their mind on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I never heard of the pattern from Acts 20 like you mention. But I am truly grateful to hear your thoughts on this. Again, thank you for your contribution to the conversation! 👍
I've already left the church and several people from that church continue to message me weekly asking if I want to attend their event. I've told 2 people already several times that I won't be going and now today I got another message. I'm not sure what exactly to say.
It sounds like you already said it. I once emailed a famous person a question. He was kind to respond as to not ignore me. Be his response was that he doesn’t answer questions via email this way. A month later, I emailed him again. He did not respond. Then it dawned on me. He did respond. He responded to my second email when he responded to the first one telling me he doesn’t respond to these types of emails. So, you already gave them your answer. You don’t need to give it to them every time they ask just because they didn’t respect you the first time you answered them.
These are lazy Christians.. They fill like they fulfill their commission to preach the gospel to people who already know Jesus. It's easy for them to preach to someone who already knows Jesus but miss church. They will probably never go into the streets and look for those truly unsaved because they are lazy.
I’m sorry to hear. It happens. Thankfully, there are good churches and Christian leaders out there. I pray God lead you and your family to the right place.
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Those arent preachers, those are wolves in 🐑 clothing. Anybody who curses a person for leaving is a wizard/ warlock posing as a pastor.😮
Yep 👍
Sounds like charismatic Pentecostal chaos from people who value the word of the pastor more than the word of God. And cults
Mostly. Although it’s not limited to a denomination.
AMEN!
Pentecostal churches
Yes dealing with this now
@weavedrsapothecary4125 It is a horrible experience to go through. I pray God see you through this, and into what He has for you next 🙏
My relationship with the Lord is about Jesus. It's not about a church. Sometimes churches can become idols.
Yes. They can. They are also an intricate part of having a relationship with God. Finding the right church, and the right balance, is the tough part 🤣 But I trust God will lead you.
💯
Amen sister
Your attendance can become the success of the pastor and job security
I'm going through it again. Church has ruined my life for 18 years. I will never attend church again. I will worship God at home.
I am so sorry this happened to you. It shouldn’t be this way. But I understand that sometimes it is. Don’t let the bad in others spoil the good in you. God has more for you. Again, I am really sorry to hear that your experience has done this to you.
You should pray about starting a home church! My parent's had one at their house and it was such a solid foundation for my faith.
After dealing with a lot of what this video touches on for about 6 years now, my husband and I decided to go back to home church and we're so happy we did. It's a complete biblical way to gather and it's so enriching. God bless ❤️
me to people go on about we are family but they have nothing to do with you
just want you as an attendance number and your money.
I feel you. It’s an absolute train wreck out there. I’m not saying what to do. But I agree
Out of the 4 churches I’ve been in in my lifetime I’ve had 3 churches that were abusive in some way, one wasn’t even from leadership, but now I’m in an amazing church. There are good ones out there. ❤❤
My wife and I recently decided to worship at a different church. We were leaving silently. We were not trying to detract from what the church was doing. When my wife confided in one of the women pastors of the church of our desire to leave she was removed from the female church community group. Is just supposed to be about sister hood and supporting one another in prayer and fellowship. So now, she is cut off and ostracized. The body of the church of Christ is bigger than one church.
Hey Douglas. You are so right. The Body is one global movement - God’s Kingdom on earth. The divisions and ostracizing you reference are certainly not God’s plan for His church. I am really sorry those people treated your wife this way. That hurts bro. You wife had a sense of community, a sense of security, and a place of belonging there. Once she no longer served “their” agenda, they penalized her by removing those from her life. The transition out of something like that is painful. Someone reading this who hasn’t experienced it may think it’s small or silly. But when that’s your world and you lose it, it hurts deeply. I do know that you eventually walk out of the other side and reestablish healthy relationships with new people in the body of Christ. You look back on these moments as blips on the radar of life. In other words, it truly (and deeply) feels like a mountain right now. But one day, it will feel like just a bump. I pray God lead you and your wife forward my brother. Trust God through the transition. He will heal. And He will direct your path.
@@AaronJDaigle Thank you for the words of encouragement. As the spiritual leader of our family, I was the one who ultimately decided that we were not going to worship their anymore. It had to do with being convicted by the Holy Spirit that most of the instruction that was being given was an hour talk of opinion backed up by only one verse in the Bible and that verse being taken out of proper context. Additionally, the pastor would take jabs at me from the altar, saying "I don't care whether you agree with me or not theologian...the door is that way..." He wouldn't point to me but I am the only one who matches that description in his congregation. I asked many times for opportunities to serve and wasn't even allowed to help in even cleaning up. Ultimately, because I didn't grow out a bird, shout at the top of my lungs, and act with lots of bravado and machismo, I wasn't masculine enough and was probably concealing something in their opinion. I ultimately told my wife we are under God's covering and protection, not an overbearing and abusive pastor.
X2
The big Mistake we make is trusting these pastors with our problem. You will become a topic to be preached about. I learned a hard lesson
I thought I was misunderstanding and I found some even joking and finding it funny to stand by people that abuse I stayed silent too long and couldn't do it anymore
I have noticed control words, I could feel like ropes bind me up! Pastors have no authority over you! You don't need covering, You report to commander in Chief, Jesus. ❤
I like that, the commander and chief notion 👍😀
I just left a church for these reasons. Pastor wanted to control me, but I wasn’t having it.
I’m glad you got out. Hope you find for yourself and your family the right church, the one God has for you.
Good 4 u
Folks, a verse worth noting >>
James 1:27 KJV ( Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.) God does Not dwell in handmade temples plus Jesus said let No man deceive you😮
This is true. Thank you for sharing my friend!
You dont need a pastor's release to leave a church. If you want to stop going to a then go to a different church. A pastor does not control when you decide to stop going to a church.
I agree. In healthy cases, I’d ask for his input. I like getting other viewpoints on major life decisions. “But hey what do you think about…” and “Can I…” are two totally different things. In an unhealthy situation, I wouldn’t even ask for advice. It’s best to just leave.
I left the church where I grew up in. No one reached out to me even though I had been there all my childhood. I feel like they were all fake friendships and I was taken advantage of my chatty self and people wear just pretending to be my friend. I find that I don't really have a desire to go to church anymore as I struggle with trust. I would rather spend time with people who I actually enjoy being with rather than fake friendships.
This is a hard place to be in. Your entire world was ripped out from under you. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Trusting after getting burned isn’t easy. I pray God lead you to the right friends and connections who will value you as much as you value them.
@@AaronJDaigle Is it okay to take a few months from church after a thing like this?
I did. (And I’d suggest in most cases it’s not only ok but is in fact necessary). You need to go lick your wounds for a while. Just don’t die in the cave. Reconnect (and you’ll have to force yourself to do it almost) with a healthy church. But yes, give yourself some time.
Wow ! You are so right on. Been thru all this in a few churches.
The things you are speaking of is plain old manipulation. So glad I woke up and will NEVER ALLOW myself to be fooled again. I also feel it was my fault to for not knowing my God’s heart for me. I should have left way sooner, it has taken me years to recover from such betrayal.
You’re not alone in this. When we’re in it, we swear it’s right. But once we get out, we Know it’s wrong. Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted. I know it feels like a waste. But the insight you have know makes the rest of your life so much better. Keep moving forward my friend.
Thank you for exposing these issues. I pray anyone who is watching and are going thru this will leave and find a healthy church
Thank you. I pray this same prayer along with you.
Finally! Someone who is calling out these horrible behaviors in church leaders! Thank you. I could give you examples of every single one of these 12 forms of abuse. I haven’t been to church more than a handful of times in the past 12 years.
Hey Crystal, thank you. I def wrestled with whether to do this. For years before doing it actually. So yeah, thank you. I pray you’re doing well. That your walk with God is still vibrant despite the circumstances. Things don’t always turn out like we hoped. But when we walk with God, they always turn out.
More than half of my church has left and my husband died just over a month ago, those still at the church who had expressed a wish to go to the funeral, were told by the pastor that if they went to my husband’s funeral then they would be kicked out of the church. Those of us who have left now realise we were in a cult. He has slandered all of us, there is no structure in the church and he had to micro manage everything. He was very passive aggressive and I believe is a covert narcissist. This is the 2nd church I’ve been spiritually abused in.. those of us who have left are meeting in homes right now… it’s been an extremely traumatic experience. Particularly since my husband died, he did a sermon where he ‘insinuated’ my husband was a false christian and is in hell…. I found that to be particularly disturbing and sick. He did say to me once that the Lord will judge between him and me, and I agree… I believe all those leaving the church are proof that the Lord is judging him and how he has continued in his pride and arrogance and some others are starting to wake up.
Hey my friend. I’d first like to express my condolences for your husband. I can’t imagine how you must feel during this loss. To hear that the church made those insinuations about him is sickening. I’m sorry you had to experience the confusion, anger, and embarrassment that resulted. The beauty is that you’re still meeting with other believers and are finding a way to be an active part of the body of Christ in spite of what you’ve been through. Thank you for sharing your story. My heart and prayers are with you and your family during this time.
@@AaronJDaigle Thank you… please pray for us as we now navigate this path the Lord is leading us down, and that we remember to do His will and not ours with regards to starting a new fellowship/church. Pray for the men who will be leading, that they have wisdom and discernment to structure the church where we are all accountable to each other and most importantly to the Lord, so that we don’t end up in the situation we were in before where our pastor was accountable to no one. I just know that as long as we trust and keep our eyes on Jesus, He will make sure we are where we need to be and the ministries that are needed will grow. Thank you and God bless you for the work you do in helping those of us getting through this kind of spiritual abuse.
Many are meeting in homes. Perhaps starting what we need in preparation for the coming tribulation. Nothing God does is by accident. True Christians being chased out of churches.
“Jab at you from the pulpit.” Bingo. “Put you on a guilt trip.” Bingo 2.0.
Well said 👍
I have severe trauma from a evangelical free church. It was at the most vulnerable point in my life and created a lot of hurt and damage, all because I happen to attend another church. It was a very hostile and toxic environment I was not made to feel welcome. The experience was horrific and I attend the church of my choice and where I feel safe but the exoerience has still scarred me.
Hey! I am deeply sorry that you experienced this. It’s definitely not something easy to heal from. And the trauma is very real. I am glad to hear though that you have found a good church home and are picking up the pieces, moving on, and finding your way. That takes tremendous strength to trust again after getting burn. Keep the faith and may God lead you on.
I left my United Pentecostal Church 28 years ago and what you have said describes my former church .
It describes many churches, unfortunately. But not all churches, thankfully. I hope you’ve found a good church family since you left.
I am in”leadership” at a UPCI church now and this is my struggle. It has been happening for about 10 years now and my pastor has become only accessible when it benefits his own personal kingdom. I recently took a very important concern to him and have been ghosted completely. The good news is that my family sees it for what it is and are ready to prayerfully move on.
@@evanjames8748 i'm in so called leadership too in a upc church. those with money and yes men seem to be rewarded. we are also used for our talents and are expected to be on the ready all the time. vacations, days away with family and breaks are frowned upon.
I have been so abused by the current pastor that I have sat under for the past ten years that I no longer trust any pastor. For me, it is painful just to go to church any more. I want to leave but am terrified of the very notion.
Hey my friend. I know exactly where you are. As in, knowing we must get out but being terrified of what will happen if we do. I stayed stuck for years bc of this. Literally yesterday though (and it’s been a good 7 years (give or take) since I’ve been out, but I was walking my dogs and literally said to God in prayer “thank you so much for getting me out of that church.” Everything in my life is better know. Everything. It didn’t feel that way immediately. But you see the light over time. I pray God give you clarify, Grace, and boldness to make the move you know you need to make.
I have recently left a church I was in bondage to for 21 years. I was in constant anxiety of hell and felt so trapped. I couldn't enjoy life, the company of other people, or anything anything because I felt so watched and loomed over. Worse, I was starting to develop a bitterness toward God because of what an ugly picture my former church painted of Hin. Now, however, I am finally free. Praise God I am free!
I am so glad to hear that you were able to separate your view of God from your view of the fake church. Not everyone is able to heal to that degree. This is painful stuff man. And it leaves its scars.
A Pentecostal leader was trying to get me to join his small church. When I didn't, he remarked about my mother who was born again. He told me that she was more off a Methodist than a Christian. I call that one form of coercion and abuse.
Sounds like it was a good decision NOT to join.
There is a self help coach TH-camr I watch who quotes this. "Every time a narcissist talks about God, they're actually talking about themselves.
Wow. There’s a lot of truth to unpack in that thought. A lot.
Damn that’s good
This is TOTALY my church!!!!! Woow I cant believe this!
I’m sorry 😢 Not a good feeling to realize this. I pray God lead you as to your next steps from here.
Get out of that church if this is what you are experiencing. God is for you and you will not be cursed .
This happens a lot in YWAM as well. I experienced almost everything you mentioned here in YWAM in Argentina, but there are so many stories from bases in many parts of the world where there’s alot of spiritual abuse going on. So glad I got out of it and am resting in the true gospel of grace and have found so many good channels helping to process it, like this channel. Thank you
Yeah, it happens in organizations just like churches. (Businesses and family dynamics too, unfortunately) I’m happy that you yourself got out and, not only that, but recalibrated and found a healthy path in Christ. Keep the faith my friend. And fight the good fight.
If someone shows you their true colors, then don't try to repaint them!
That, my friend, is true wisdom.
I hope these messages go nation wide! So important for so many to hear!!
Thank you. People need to hear there is hope and healing after these things happen. So grateful for your support my friend!
Thank you for sharing your experience, I’ve experienced this and haven’t been able to articulate it or even talk to anyone about it because everyone seems like they’re “yes men” and I sense that I’ll be viewed as the problem.
You prob would be viewed as the problem for speaking up. That’s how they keep us silent. God, however doesn’t tell us to fight every battle. So He may direct you to leave it alone and get away. He does tell us to fight some things, however. Only you know which is right for you in this context. More generally, I am sorry to hear you’ve had to experience this. I do know this. God can’t trust everyone with this kind of trouble. He has a purpose for you and allowed you to walk through this to bring you out and to bring you up. You are made for more. And I believe you will walk in all of it.
That’s what sort of happened to me with a church I went to. I spoke to the pastor’s wife about the women’s Bible study and basically asked her if I did something wrong to her personally. She tried to make me feel horrible and make me look like such an angry person for bringing it up. She got very defensive. I understand she had a hard life, but when I tried telling her I needed some grace, she brushed me off and told me she needed grace, too, and I did tell her she was right about that. I tried standing up for myself though, but man it was a mess. A lot of yes women around her too since she’s the pastor’s wife. A lot of women at the church defending her and not saying anything when she says something hurtful to someone else. And I think I was kicked out of their meals ministry, too. I know not all pastors and their wives are like this, but it never makes me want to meet one ever again. That’s ok though, we weren’t friends anyway.
They ask to step down from leadership.. please pray for us...my family is being attacked...and it is true don't tell Christian leaders they are wrong
It’s ok to tell someone they are wrong. You just have to deal with the consequences of telling them (Proverbs 9:7). But as for your specific situation, my heart and prayers are with you and your family. I know it feels like your world is being ripped out from under you. Jesus, however, will see you all through it.
Facts!
Right on point. Not long ago I learned that spiritual abuse is existent. More people need to watch your video.
Anything in Spanish?
Sadly, spiritual abuse is something that exists and not a lot of people are aware of and so members ignorantly take on the abuse because they somehow have been convinced to somehow idolized the leader, have become confused, and lost focus of God’s word. Additionally, if members question a decision/ proposal/ narrative of the leader, the member is categorized as being spiritually ill and disobedient to God.
Great video!
Thank you so much. Y no tengo recursos en español por ahora. Lo mejor es usar los subtítulos. Pero según Dios, los libros que publiqué serán disponibles en español en unos de estos días.
Yes, church hurt really does hurt. Excellent series!
That is a good way of putting it!
These are all issues I noticed in the church and these are also things that seem sort of taboo to talk about. All churches/pastors are not this way however it does seem like a problem that didn’t get spoke on enough
You are spot on. 👍
Hey it's simple stupid, get born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, He will show you what church to go to. If you're going to church just to punch your time card, get someone to preach how good you are & make you feel good, to think that going to church will get you to heaven or just because it's the biggest mega church in town & popular, then that's your sign you're probably not born again. Hey! Wake Up! The pastor, preacher or teacher isn't an idol, you ain't going to church to please the preacher. If you ain't got the Holy Spirit you won't have discernment & could be sitting in a useless church. Your pastor is there to preach what the Holt Spirit gave him & if it ain't lining up with scripture, what God's Word thru the Holy Spirit has been showing you then this maybe your sign. When you've been studying a topic, go to Sunday school and that lesson lines up & then the preachers message lines up then this could be your sign. Now, if your preacher is preaching in anything but the KJV then you ought to study translations & listen to the Holy Spirit.
I served for over 20 yrs at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley. Our founding pastor was Francis Chan. In the 12 yrs since he stepped away, Cornerstone has slowly sunk into classic spiritual abuse as you described. So many people have left (literally thousands) that there has been an emergence of reverse judgement towards those that stay in that abusive church. We're all in need of a savior!
Man there’s no feeling in the world like giving yourself to something for 20 yrs that falls apart on you. Truly sorry you’ve had to walk through this. And I love your conclusion. We all need a savior. Pointing ourselves and others towards Christ, no matter the circumstances. 👍
Yep, we're all in need of a savior. That savior calls us out of these pagan temples to follow HIS voice and hear HIS understanding. Without leaving these pagan temples we will never be pleasing to God or experience His salvation.
You and your family have really went through some things in church! So glad God brought all of you through and you are stronger in Him. Unfortunately, everyone does not survive church abuse without being wounded, hurt and never wanting to go to anybody's church. You are on point about everything ou shared.
Thank you for understanding. And yes, not everyone makes it through. Perhaps even the majority don’t. My hope is that, through these videos on the Church Hurt playlist, we can increase the number of people who do.
Uugggh im going through this right now🥺🥺😢 I was fine at church until my pastor started getting too into my business by trying to control me and what I do with my life. Controlling me by telling me not to go to Starbucks to have fun. I enjoy going to coffee shops. Apparently I’m a sad depressed lonely young lady because I enjoy going to Starbucks many times during the week. Don’t see how that makes me lonely because coffee shops are relaxing and are filled with many young people and older people. He’s already embarrassed my parents many times during Sunday service by doing that thing when you tell him something and then in front of everyone he complains and judges you over what you said to him and yet everyone else doesn’t know it’s about you but yet the pastor is staring directly at you in front of everyone. I just don’t understand why people are like that. I hope that if I do leave, he doesn’t curse me and my family. When two ladies were “released,” they announced it to everyone on Sunday and talked badly about them.
Wow. I am so sorry you have had to walk through this. It sounds like it’s been difficult for you, and embarrassing for both you and your parents. Proverbs 26:2 promises you that he CAN’T curse you if you leave. When you read that verse, the devil will try to tell you “yea but you deserve it,” but I assure you you don’t. Nobody in the Bible was ever curse for leaving an unhealthy situation in search for a better one. Only you can decide if you need to leave. But I can tell you for a fact that nobody can curse you if you do. Also, in Numbers chapters 22-25 (give or take) there is a story about Balak and Balaam (one hires the other one to curse Israel), but he can’t! Read it and let God free you from that stronghold of fear that is keeping you stuck in a place God may be trying to get you out of.
Girl, tell them Bye with love. They have no power to curse you!! Remember who you serve. Greater is He . .
I swear my pastor is exactly like that. So what I do is I nod as if he isn't talking to, then look as if I am disgusted by that person. I'm an Atheist now though, Pentecostal churches can really damage you emotionally
I hope you left that harlot house aka a "church". The scriptures are clear that none of these hireling shepherds are of God. They are all blind guides who draw away disciples after themselves. As it is written, let God be true but every man a liar. This whole system is referred to as the great whore in the scriptures. God's elect don't attend these pagan temples and they certainly don't follow the traditions and doctrines of men. His sheep hear His voice, just like the scriptures say, they don't follow strangers.
Galatians 3: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us.
No one can trump that. Your "pastor" is/was a fraud, plain and simple. Here are the words of a REAL SHEPHERD:
I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of His Body, which is the church. (Colossians 1)
WHATS SO AMAZING IS CULTISH PASTORS NEVER ENCOURAGE YOU TO SERVE OUTSIDE OF THE FOUR WALLS OF THE CHURCH. IF WE ARE JUST SERVING IN THE CHUCH WALLS HOW CAN WE HELP THE LOST?
God’s plan is for us to be the church, not just go to church. We are supposed to connect with other believers and seek God together. But church is who we are, not where we go.
When a Pastor returns from vacation and admonishes the church for reducing their giving while he/she was gone.. and demands tithes and offerings to pay for their vacation “that” is abuse
Yes, it is.
That’s disgusting
This was great thanks dealt with some of this myself. I was told if I leave I’m causing division in the church and I would basically be on spiritual merry go round and have to get back on where I jumped off just like all the others who left the church and came back.
That’s pure manipulation. I’m sorry you dealt with this and do hope you’re out of there.
It’s not divisive if you leave a church to go to another one. A lot of churches take Bible verses of divisiveness out of context. Being divisive is when a false shepherd (pastor) or member creeps into the church with destructive heresies and divides the church that way. For example, Christians are to believe in the Holy Trinity. If others try to dismantle this Biblical doctrine, then out they go. Churches shouldn’t have to put up with that nonsense. But, if you find a different church to feel home at, that’s not divisive. That church has control issues and tries to fear-monger and manipulate their congregation to stay at their church because it’s “better” than others. It’s so foolish for a church to manipulate their congregation from going to visit other Bible teaching churches.
Hey . I’ve experienced spiritual abuse at the hands of the lead pastor at my church, to the point where it became physical abuse tonight at my son’s basketball game. He laid hands on my son, and when I approached him about it, he began getting physically aggressive with me, laying hands unwanted hands on me shoving me and yelling in front of the whole gym. The cameras in the gym did not have the angle to see it after the police said they investigated concluded that he never touched my son (my son insists that he did and he’s not lying and there are witnesses) .
He was trying to goad me knowing I’m a trained Marine but I held restraint through the whole ordeal as he was coming at me. I know know that his immediate act of aggression and battery was an attempt to egg me on to throw a punch. Which I didn’t. But I need to talk to someone who’s been through this. I don’t know what to do. He’s the untouchable pastor of a church. I need to know what to do. I’ve been praying and listening for God.
Ryan in your case, given that physical abuse has occurred, I think your next steps are clear. You leave and you take your family with you. I know, easier said than done. But you’re in a situation that has paced the point of resolve. (Side note, much props to you for keeping your cool in a situation like that. That takes a real man to pull something like that off 👍)
All of this is correct in our experience in a IFB - many people hurt and their manipulation was spiritual abuse. The truth will come out and many knew and covered it up and continue to lie for him. (KMears sin, his families sin and their coverup and manipulation and lies continue).
Hey my friend! It’s not an easy thing to go through. For sure. I know it’s hard to recalibrate after experiencing this. I pray in time you and your family are able to heal. And to trust again. In the meantime, my heart and prayers are with y’all. And again, I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
Thank you for talking about this real issue. ⚘
Thank you 🙏
I am experiencing number 3 right now in a church that refused to support me in seminary. Also, I am being talked about because I accepted a pastoral residency and did not ask my pastor to do so. I do not need a pastor to tell me when it is God or not. I think when someone gets called it should be celebrated. However, that is not the case.
The way I deal with it is that I do not to fellowship with them. However be open to fellowship when they repent.
Hey Isosori. It sounds like you’ve made bold moves and are paying a price for it. Not everyone will agree with you. That’s ok. Walk on. If you’re right, God will confirm it overtime. If you’re wrong, God will catch you when you jump. He will redirect your course. Trust Him. And keep moving forward.
I went to a year lomg discipleship program that was to help people get off drugs or overcome life controlling issues. Submission was emphasized big time. I believe we are to submit but not out of manipulation. I kept telling the leader of the house im being attacked spiritually and inwas not taken seriously. Even the pastor wouldn't really take it seriously even tho he believes in spiritual warfare. I know God called me to the deliverance ministry but this fellowship seemed to be dimmming my light and zeal. They couldnt keep quality obedient people there so i was out fundraising from sun up til sun down. There was nobody else to fundraise because nobody else could be trusted with money. There were times we would get back late and have to get up two hours later to do it all over again. Basically you walk around and sell bags of popcorn telling people of the cause. This ministry will buy you a bus ticket to get to them. They seem to care but i believe something wasnt right. I felt like if i mentioned the word demon i was saying a bad word. Also we werent allowed to watch certain preachers. I was loving the ministry but i didnt like how they discredited me and the revelation God gave me about the devil. I would tell them the bible says to know our enemy. Anyway i left and before i left my house leader basically spoke death over me saying ill nevrr succeed. I felt God wanted me there but and i felt like i lost my salvation whem i left. I left out of nowhere. It was weird. I want to fulfill my calling. I love the people there still but i cant help but wonder if i was in the wrong place.
My friend, it sounds to me like you were in the wrong place. (Unless God had you there for a season to develop you) But the fact that they spoke death over your life’s ministry, saying you’d never be successful, when you left is a clear indication to not go back. I pray you find the next stops/place on your journey and that God ultimately use this experience to give you even deeper insight into the deliverance ministry He is developing in you.
Man man man, I wasn’t in a church but i was under someone but everything was on the phone. I know it sounds crazy but I’ve only ever spoke to them over the phone but I trusted them. I was told I couldn’t hear from God because I was too new to know his voice. I was told people who pulled away always ended up coming back because they can’t mature elsewhere. I was told that if I left that covering Satan would devour me. I was told things about people and it caused division. I began to feel like it was better than these people because I was being told about them. I was told when I didn’t agree it was the spirit of rebellion and I was a baby Christian so I just wasn’t mature enough to know. Even when i would bring up scripture i was told my Bible was wrong because it wasn’t made before a certain time and all the Bibles after that year they gave me we’re incorrect. I remember when I first got under this person my husband and I had gotten into an argument (I was angry and didn’t understand forgiveness) my husband called them to minister to us through this small disagreement. They told him to apologize and he did but I ignored him and would not respond. They got angry and told my husband to walk away because I had “willed my soul to satan” I was terrified. I remember disagreeing and anytime I did during the weekly call we all had they would bring it up but not mention me but bring it up to get everyone else to agree with them. I was told if I didn’t tithe I’d be cursed. I felt like i was in chains there
Erika, you have experienced something traumatic. I am so sorry this happened to you. I notice you are writing in the past tense so I’m assuming you’re out of this environment. I pray you and your husband have gotten through together, that you heal from this abuse, and that God redirect you into His plans and purpose for your life.
@@AaronJDaigle I just officially told them I was walking away about two weeks ago. I was under a Prophet/evangelist so now I have the feeling like God will be upset with me. I can’t stop thinking that “what if it was me” or God is about to punish me. I don’t speak negatively about this person, say their name, name the ministry or personally attack them. I just tell what was done to me but I was constantly told “Don’t touch my anointed” so I’m trying not to walk in fear. I do have faith that God won’t just leave me but you know how that goes. I guess it’s just a process.
@@Erikap358 Yes, it is (a process). And what you were told was part of the manipulation tactics used to keep people from leaving. As you grow in your healing, you will also grow beyond those fear tactics that were used against you. I promise.
Thank you!
Thanks brother..good contribution
Thank you 🙏
A hazardous situation happened to my family. My dad took my brother to church after their baptizing my brother told the church untrue and horrible schizophrenic things about my dad. My mother was abused by the Morman church as a child and has cut off all church congregation forever. My brother keeps harassing my mom about how her brother who passed away when she was a teenager is at his church. And that my parents aren’t his parents. And that my dad did horrible things to him. Where is this coming from? He stolen our family photos. Loaded a virus to my dads laptop.
Man I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I don’t have the answers as to where this is coming from. This is not of God. I’m praying with you about this situation.
You said released.thats bondage
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Higher places ministries in Vineland NJ dug up my past after I donated music gear for their food bank then got asked how much I was worth in dollars and cents after being diagnosed with Cancer COPD and MS in 2019
I am sorry you had to experience this
So many correlations. I am curious if you have a video about the friends you lost, the people you worked with or who you were close to in the church community that believed the pastor’s story?
Wow. No. But. That is such a needed video. I will def look into this. I truly believe this would help so many people. Thank you.
So much of what u shared happened to me
I am very sorry to hear this. It’s so sad that many of us have had to walk through this. I pray you’re at a better place now at this new season of your life. 🙏
Serious Wisdom here. God bless, Australia
Appreciate it. God bless you and Australia 🇦🇺 as well!
You gave expression to some subtle tactics that are hard to explain. So helpful. Thks!
Thank you. I think it’s hard for all of us who have been through these things to put them into words.
This does not apply to all churches or pastors. Your support and attendance can become the success of the pastor and job security
So true. That was part of why I struggled so long before doing the videos. The world is so antagonistic towards biblical principles and the church. And so many Christians/pastors/churches love God and people. They do it for the right reasons. Those are not the ones these videos are about.
And yes, the ones the videos ARE about, rely on people’s attendance as a badge of merit, a way to prop up their own importance, a means to become the next big name megachurch pastor.
So much of this we have experienced. Thanks
Hey Laura. I am sorry. It’s not an easy thing to go through, that’s for sure.
Please pray for me... definitely being hurt...
I’m praying for you at this very moment. I’m so sorry you are going through this.
Do you think if the pastoral team expects you to be available all the time for whatever they want you to do even when you have not yet becomes a licensed pastor that this is toxic? It feels like a disrespect of my life and specific calling and time. “We expect you to be at both services and say yes to everything.
I do not think someone who fails to respect your boundaries is healthy. This applies whether you are a licensed minister or not.
@@AaronJDaigle The language that was used was : “ hey we want to give you more pastoral duties and we want people to see you as a Pastor so we want you to be the Director of this and the leader of these two teams and be here for both services on Sunday teach a class on Wednesday even though you work a full-time job”
One pastor at my church said you couldnt get filled with the holy spirit if you first dont submit to the church leadership. What do you think about that?
It doesn’t matter what I think about that. The Bible teaches on that. Acts 2:38, for example, says to repent and be baptized in Jesus’ name. And then says you “shall” receive the Holy Spirit. Shall is will, not might. And it doesn’t say anything about submitting to church leadership in that verse, nor do other parts of scripture. What was told you was a mismatching of some scripture with other scripture to try to say one thing that neither of those scriptures say.
@@AaronJDaigle I agree with u.
Control over what books you read or radio or tv faith-wise is up to you, you have the holy spirit
to help you discern guide teach.
Yes 👍
this is hwat happens when the church becomes about the pastor and not god
Sadly, yes.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Of course
I attended a church in Racine, Wisconsin. The Open Bible church, Souls Harbor on Wright Ave. A couple went to Bible College at night. Got thier degrees. Wanted to be used more in the church for advancing the kingdom. They approached the Pastor. Nothing came for them. So they left. Found another church. The Pastor and his wife went to talk to them to change their minds. But to no avail. They never came back. So after that meeting the Pastor, from the pulpit, in front of over 300 people, declared..."Because they have left this church, it's like they now have one foot in Hell"...needless to say in the next few moths probably 50 people left that church. I remember the preachers wife at the organ very visibly shaking her head in a no-no nod at what her husband said.
Well, thankfully his wife sees through it. That’s helpful. And it sounds like a bunch of other people do too. It’s sad that things like that are said over the pulpit. Jesus does not use the pulpit to condemn people to the hell He died on a cross to save them from.
how much control can a church or pastor have control over your dating life outsode or inside the curch ?
None. God does not control people. The devil does. (That's not to say in appropriate cases that your pastor should not advise you on this subject. We often go into dating blindly and get burned because we overlook the signs that those around us can see) Counsel is good. Control is not.
My ex church still contacts me, I'm still in all their groups and they never discuss people in the groups.
I remember how they even came to my rescue when I was in need even though i no longer attended the church.
Then when I left another church they stopped talking to me, i visited the church and no one even spoke to me.
The pastor warned them no to have anything to do with me.
Sounds like see seen both sides of this, good and the ugly.
this is a great video ... there is massive use of tactics and jabbing ...
read Acts 20 ... there is an incredible pattern laid out for true shepherding ... this is what some call the "Pauline pattern" which is under heavy assault, by those who don't conform to it
the Pauline pattern is the basis for successful church and is actively assaulted by the wolves ... the first line of attack on the Pauline pattern is that is falsely called "Paul worship" ... Paul's sufferings are captured in Scripture and are to be preached with regularity, clarity and emphasis ... in fact, the first thing we hear Jesus say about Paul in Scripture is this ... "... I will show him how many things he must suffer for my name's sake."
here is the constant/abiding call to the Pauline pattern (Philippians 3):
Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, AS YOU HAVE US FOR A PATTERN. For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame-who set their mind on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I never heard of the pattern from Acts 20 like you mention. But I am truly grateful to hear your thoughts on this. Again, thank you for your contribution to the conversation! 👍
I've already left the church and several people from that church continue to message me weekly asking if I want to attend their event. I've told 2 people already several times that I won't be going and now today I got another message. I'm not sure what exactly to say.
It sounds like you already said it. I once emailed a famous person a question. He was kind to respond as to not ignore me. Be his response was that he doesn’t answer questions via email this way. A month later, I emailed him again. He did not respond. Then it dawned on me. He did respond. He responded to my second email when he responded to the first one telling me he doesn’t respond to these types of emails. So, you already gave them your answer. You don’t need to give it to them every time they ask just because they didn’t respect you the first time you answered them.
Don't go
These are lazy Christians.. They fill like they fulfill their commission to preach the gospel to people who already know Jesus. It's easy for them to preach to someone who already knows Jesus but miss church. They will probably never go into the streets and look for those truly unsaved because they are lazy.
Hey
Hey Isabella
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o
God bless
All of this is going on at Heartland Baptist Fellowship in Cass County Missouri, by nearly all of the lay pastors.
🪓😡👍💯💯💯
I’m sorry to hear. It happens. Thankfully, there are good churches and Christian leaders out there. I pray God lead you and your family to the right place.