Reaction, Doctor Who, 9x08, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S9Ep8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2021
- It's time for the thrilling conclusion to The Zygon Invasion! Will Bonnie win? Will the Doctor get through to her? Let's find out what Paula thinks!
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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I firmly believe that Capaldi's speech is one of the best acted (and generally best) moments of Doctor Who.
Cinema!
In 50+ years that’s probably the truest statement ever.
By a Mile!!
Series 9 pulls out a couple of the show's best moments well after I had more or less written it off. Still one of my favourite series.
Totally. To date, I think Capaldi and Smith have gotten the best speeches and this is usually the one I think of first when considering them.
The reason 12 loves Clara so much is the "First face this face saw" rule. The doctor always has an irrational attachment to whoever he sees first after regeneration. Same with the Ponds, which is the first time this was officially established.
I think it's more than that. The Ponds felt more like Family (almost parent like) to him. Clara feels different, she's not just a smitten kitten the way some of them were and she's not a foil like Donna was. Clara was honestly the only one who came very close to understanding what it was like to be the Doctor and I think that makes her special to him.
Yes, like Rose to 10, or even sarah janes for 4.
@@jonjohns8145 Yes! I will also say that there is something that is just hard to explain even if you have been lucky enough to experience it. You might at some point come across a person who you love on a deeper level than them either being family or romantic partner. You are nothing more than friends but its a friendship that makes you feel like you have found that missing piece of your entire essence. Even if they do something infuriating your love for them doesn't diminish.
There are better scenes and stories in this series but when Clara comes on board the Tardis in the girl who lived giving the doctor a hug before she pulls the lever. The doctor gives her a look where he seems so content watching her looking at the tardis console with excitment. And at the end of this episode when she asks him what it was like thinking she was dead and he responds with it being the longest month. It brings tears to my eyes, I'd give up the rest of my limited time if it meant getting to spend a day or an hour with my Clara. Nothing feels right without her, I have learned to live with it. But she is the only person that really knew not just the good but the darkest parts of me. And she never judged me for it, she understood that having gone through what we had experienced you don't pass it on. But you can't remove that part of yourself no matter what.
@@evildeathcuddles886 Spoilers!
She was there when he died, she was there when he was reborn. She's been with him for a long time at this point. Rose is hundreds of years ago to him at this point. So are Amy and Rory and Donna and Martha. For this man, for this Doctor, she is his whole world. That's why he adores her so much. That's why she's important.
"He's had some many companions, why is he so in love with her?" Because Clara is the most like him of any of his companions.
That’s true too.
I was thinking does it have to do with the fact that it was the first face 12 saw. Just exactly as 11 stated that Amy was the first place that his face saw. Imprinted.
Agreed. It isn't about love, it is about someone who thinks the most like him.
He has had other companions, some clever and even Time Lords (Romana), but none of them are like him, for good or bad. ("In his mind" not as a euphemism for something else.)
I don't think they realize that question is better asked about a character like Rose rather than Clara. I understand why The Doctor is close to Clara. Both in personality and of course the fact that she's an integral part of his timeline. But I never quite understood his relationship with Rose. I get that she was one of his first companions after he thought he wiped out his own race, but his continued obsession with her AFTER series 2 still doesn't make much sense to me. The Doctor remembers his companions, but he always moves on. And the way he treated Martha as if she wasn't good enough because she isn't Rose was sickening. Anyway, they can hate Clara all they want. She's still better than their faves. lol
Yep .. Clara is the closest The doctor has EVER come to having an equal among the humans. Most of the companions he had were almost like pets (a point Missy put so bluntly before). People he had that he basically can show off to and make sure he has something to care about so as not to let his dark loneliness take him. But Clara was the first one to ever TRULY understand what it's like to be him, to be the soul burdened by 2000 years of both Joy and Tragedy. That is why she was someone who can call him out on his BS when he does things he KNOWS were wrong or unkind. I honestly think she was the first companion to ever be Truly his friend.
Does he treat Martha like she isn't good enough though? Martha certainly feels inadequate but that's just because she is in love with the Doctor and he is in love with Rose instead. The Doctor tells her upfront in their first ep together that he isn't romantically interested in her, and she lies and tells him the same, it's hardly his fault that he took her words at face value. And it would have been bad writing if he had never mentioned Rose again, he was so attached to her and her family. If we hadn't known that Martha was interested in the Doctor, I don't think his mentions of Rose would come across as cruel
Don't forget that Missy is the one that brought Clara and the Doctor together. Missy is quite the matchmaker and deliberately picked a companion specifically for...reasons. A perfect match, if you will.
I think it's a number of things. Of all his companions, she's the most like him. This is good and bad, but goes a long way to explaining his feelings. I do think her existence throughout his timeline amplifies this, paradox or no. I don't think he cares less for River, Rose, or Amy as a result...but right now she's here and they're not.
I agree with all of this. Also, I think there is something to her (existence) being more prominently introduced to him during a long mourning period after being separated from Amy and Rory. He’s been known to, in a way, connect easily with others, and there are a lot of layers to how he connects with Clara. He said to Amy “you’re the first face this face ever saw” and that’s true for Capaldi’s Doctor in regards to Clara.
@@jciarra
Obviously another similar example of the doctor being attached to the first face he saw is Rose and 10. It could almost be compared to the imprinting that a lot of animals do upon being born.
Not to mention Clara being linked to him throughout his timeline, visiting him in his dreams as a child, being the one to get him a new regeneration cycle and bearing witness to his death and rebirth, and being the one to convince him to save Gallifrey
The problem with that theory is he hates himself so if she's the most lile him he should hate her the most.
I believe Clara is "the very ultimate companion" only because she is the current companion of the current Doctor. He doesn't compare companions or rank them. He lives in a moment.
And by the way, Amy and Rory were around him for 200 "his" years over 900 years ago. And Clara travels with him since then. Rose, Martha, Donna - just a few years twelve centuries ago. So let him judge of a time :-)
He does rank them in some regards. Leg length for example, and Amy is still winning.
Incarnations are like ducks. Just as 11 couldn't get Amy out of his head and 10 couldn't get Rose out of his, 12 is bonded to Clara. The first face this face saw.
Kinda sad that this didn't happen with Grace and Graham, tbh. But I guess we needed some change.
The first face. Yes that’s what I thought as well.
@@mjm3091 12 became Scottish in remembrance of Amy. 13 has a Yorkshire accent to Clara's Lancashire one. Similarish despite what they might say. So maybe 14 will be a bit like either or both.
The Doctor's war speech, some of the best Doctor Who ever written and performed. and that's over all of the 50+ years.
You have to take into account the Doctor's personal timeline. Its been at least 1,100 years since Rose, a thousand since he said goodbye to the Ponds. That's half his lifetime ago. But Clara was there before Trenzalore. She met every previous version of him and saved their life. She was there when he saved Gallifrey and was the reason he did so. She persuaded the Time Lords to save him on Trenzalore and is the reason he is still alive at all as 12. She was the first face 12 saw. And the first to see him as the Doctor. And now 1000 years later she is still there in his life, at his side. Jenna Coleman is not only the longest serving supporting actor in Nuwho at this point, Clara has been in the Doctor's life longer than any other companion, over 1000 years and through some of the most momentous personal moments in his life.
Then you also have to remember who put them together and why. The prequel to Name of the Doctor, She Said, He Said sums it up-
“And now she is back and we are running together, and she's perfect. Perfect in every way for me...always brave, always funny, always exactly what I need.”
Missy deliberately choose him the perfect companion, but also a dangerous one as she is so much like the Doctor himself. This is why I take issue with Katrina's, and others, view that Clara is inconsistent. These traits, or her bossiness, or her need to have control of a situation have all been present since modern Clara's first appearance in Bells. Yes they have been further developed, but they are not inconsistent at any point.
I mean… and I’m just spitballing here but I’m thinking that he doesn’t feel the same way about Rose/Donna or anyone else because he was someone else when he loved them. Maybe the grumpy old man prefers Clara because she was there with him in the beginning of his regeneration.
I think the thing about Clara being "important" (to the Doctor at least) is easier to see with hindsight, although it is there at least as early as Flatline. IMO, the reason he cares so much about her is because she is similar to him. I think in the same way that the Doctor cares about the Master with them being the last two of their kind, the Doctor seems something similar in Clara.
Clara was there for him in every regeneration, and before that he had looked up every moment of her life to find out who 'The Impossible Girl' was, and just when he was starting to fall in love he regenerated again and almost lost her, that's after 750+ years on 'The Fields of Trenzalore' so the Doctor has spent a lot of time with just her in his life, more than any companion. I kind of get why he is so attached. 😛😁
The Doctor's point is that, no matter how justified the rebellion, there is a choice of making it a war. And there is a choice to address the problems by talking. War is the quick fix and creates more problems than it ever solves.
Well put!
Here we are. THE speech. Not Capaldi’s only one, but certainly a strikingly brilliant one, beautifully written and amazingly acted. Here we see the man who wasn’t sure if he was good at the start of this incarnation demonstrate he’s one of the most fiercely kind of them all (despite the grumpiness).
I can't quite understand why you think that the doctor cares for Clara more than any other companion he has cared equally for everyone who has travelled with him. He had the same feelings for Amy and rose when they were with him and yet you never complained about those relationships. I do think your idea that clara is treated any differently to any other companion is wrong. He only cares for her at the moment because she is the one that is currently travelling with him.
She's the longest running companion. So it prolly makes sense if he feels more attached to her than anyone else. She's also very much like him. But I think what you say is true... And why they feel so is because she has taken screen space for a lot. Of important episodes and a long, long time.
I think the Doctors relationship with Clara is so special because of s07E13 "The name of the Doctor" when she splintered into pieces and spread throughout his entire timeline/lifetime, a version of her even told him which TARDIS to take in the beginning.
I do see your point but the previous Doctors have been like this as well. 10 with Rose, he dismissed Martha for an entire series because of Rose, and it got the point where Martha had to stand up for herself and “get out”.
11 wasn’t as bad as 10 after he lost Amy but he did “retire” to a cloud until he met Clara. She reawakened the “Doctor” in him after a really terrible loss. I also like to think he has this attachment to Clara because after losing Amy, he doesn’t want that to happen again. He doesn’t want to stand over another one of his closest friends gravestone. Which is reinforced because he had already seen Clara sacrifice herself for him in Name of the Doctor - that’s just my little head canon anyway. But I adore Clara, she’s my favourite, I always had an attachment to her more than the others that I just can’t explain why, it’s strange.
I do think it also comes down to the Doctor clinging to that first face he saw as well, 10 with Rose, 11 with Amy and now 12 with Clara - if that makes sense?
In regard to River, when he last saw her it was after she’d died and was in the database. He doesn’t like remembering because it hurts him, reminds him she’s gone.
But great reaction as always, can’t wait for the final few of the series!! 💙
My take on today’s discussion topic: why Clara? I think because it’s *always* the companion he’s currently with. The Tenth Doctor pining after Rose was the exception in a long, long life of feeling whoever’s traveling in the TARDIS with him at the moment is the most important person in the universe. Which I think, in turn, is a symptom of his real loneliness. He latches on because, whatever it is that draws him to his wandering life, the solitude of it is a price he wishes he didn’t have to pay.
In “School Reunion” Sarah Jane Smith said “The Doctor likes to travel with an entourage.” I don’t think he likes to, so much as desperately needs to.
There is a key point in Day of the Doctor when the three Doctors (10, 11 and War) are going to destroy everything with The Moment. They can't think of any other option, they are *all* ready to press the "Big Red Button". Clara is the one that gets them to stop and consider alternative solutions. Clara saved Gallifrey, the Timelords and created the means for the Doctor to redeem himself. I like to think that all incarnations of the Doctor recognize that.
One factor I think gets overlooked is that Clara is the only companion *this Doctor* has had, and she was there when he came out of his confusion after regenerating. He's not the same person he was when he was travelling with Amy and Rory, or with Rose. How he thinks, how he processes things, his attitudes towards people are different in each incarnation. How 10 interacted with Sarah-Jane Smith is not how 3 or 4 or (briefly, 11, in one episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures) interacted with her.
He remembers being all those different people, but he's not the same person and his feelings towards people change in various big and small ways in each incarnation.
Came for Capaldi’s speech (gets you every time), stayed for the hand jive.
I think about the anti-war speech in the same terms as I think about strict pacifism (i.e. no fighting even to defend yourself). It works only so long as everyone else adopts the same philosophy. If even just one group chooses to develop weapons or a military, then all the other pacifist societies are sitting ducks. Being willing to forgive anything for the sake of peace is a noble idea, but if even one group decides not to, well, war is inevitable. That's why the situation kept happening and he kept having to wipe their memories.
Exactly 15 times so far, how many more will it repeat, how many dead as groups rebell because the cause isn't fixed.
See, the thing is, Clara was the person who inspired him to travel again after Amy and Rory (The Snowmen), Clara saved his life (TNOTD, and while we're on this episode, Clara jumping into his timeline was a plot point that remained intact, there's nothing in the story that suggests the paradox reversed what she did, at least as far as I remember. And even if it didn't happen, they remember it happening and so therefore it still matters. Under the same principle, one could argue that River and the Doctor aren't actually married, but they still remember getting married and that's what matters.), Clara got the Time Lords to give the Doctor a new set of regenerations (TTOTD), Clara stayed with him throughout his new regeneration and helped him navigate whether he was a good man or not (all of series 8), Clara forgave him over and over again despite his abandoning her constantly, but moreover, he loves Clara because she's brave. She taught him how to be kinder, she's his emotional and moral compass. She's compassionate, she doesn't leave people behind (See: her staying with Angie and Artie despite her dreams of travelling, Merry Gejelh). He loves her for who she is. His connection with her isn't just the impossible girl, again, it's because she stayed with him and helped him through his identity crisis, forgiving him for all his mistakes. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about or love his former companions, but it's been hundreds and thousands of years since he'd even seen any of them. He cares about them, but the person he was then is not the person he is now, and his deeper affections lie with Clara, because of their history together, because of who she is, even if you don't get it. The point is the Doctor gets it. He sees himself in her, that bravery, that recklessness, occasionally, even that selfishness, and it frightens him. But he loves her for it anyways, for all her vices and virtues. Besides, the Doctor still being all mopey over Rose or Amy or River would be terribly tedious. It's not fair on the current companion to constantly have the presence of a former companion looming over them. We'd been through this with Tennant, it's old hat. We all saw what happened with Martha, and boy did that shit not end/age well. Hope this helps somewhat, all the best.
Best Drs speech ever !
Seems Katrina was visibly disappointed that Paula didnt really like the Drs monlogue
There is one more piece to the "why does he like Clara so much?" : The Doctor does regenerate, and he is technically the 'same' Doctor. BUT when the Doctor does regenerate he does 'become' somebody new. And this Doctor has only 'known' Clara as a companion. Great reaction to this, my FAVOURITE episode (so far!)
This rewatch has been fascinating.
I didn't realize the extent of how much the season fed into the last two episodes of this season, until now. (In particular, the "letting Clara into your mind" line.)
I don't think 12 loves clara in that sense more loves her as his best mate and you always want to protect your best mate
@Lauren Lewis he's a timelord not a man
I think Clara is special amongst all the companions becausfe of just how much they are alike and how they push and pull each other on their best and worst characteristics, no other companion has ever really been like that
This episode is probably the most cleverly written, but least in your face about it. The Osgood Box is such a perfect conceit.
The Doctor is a new person each time, so how they feel about different companions changes. Clara was the one who talked him out of destroying Gallifrey*, and soon after that, the Doctor dies and regenerates into Capaldi, who is acknowledged to be more scared than usual and needed Clara to stay with him. Then Clara continues to show brilliance and Doctorish attributes here and there throughout.
All those things combined, of course this Doctor would be over-protective of Clara in a way he isn't with other companions.
* You really can't downplay how much that would figure into the Doctor's emotion. It's the Time War. He killed billions of Gallifreyan children. He destroyed his own race. He has felt the pain for hundreds of years, and Clara finds the right moment to push him in another direction. And we see in this episode's speech how much the Time War still means to him. He still has memories (and feelings) of both timelines, including the one in which he did press the button and murdered billions of his own people. And Clara gave him a better option. It's a huge freaking deal.
Clara is special to 12, the same way Amy was special to 11! 11 very rarely, if ever, mentioned Rose or Martha or Donna. Each incarnation has their own best friend.
Add to that it was Missy/The Master who chose her. Missy wanted the Doctor to be that dependant to Clara (for other reasons, of course)
Another great reaction. I think Paula is right at the end. The Doctor would say those things to any of his companions. He feels that way about Clara because she is the current one. He moped about Rose for all of s3-4. After he lost Amy and Rory he went into isolation for an indeterminate amount of time and it’s Amy he sees when he Regenerates. He still feels guilt about Donna in s6. And the combination of the loss of Rose and Donna leads him to the edge of breaking time. It took the paradox of Clara to draw him out. Does she say “Pond” because it describes the danger or because the part of her that is a fragment of original Clara knows that is the right word? She created the timeline that caused them to meet. She was the first person he saw after regenerating. She was intwined in his timeline even if she doesn’t remember it. He has a history in classic who of never looking back. Once a companion is gone that’s it only Tegan leaves gets on with her life then meets him again and travels with him again. He rarely speaks of them once they are gone. But while they are there he will risk everything he can for them. And much harder won’t risk the thinks he can’t. The temptation to cross the line must be constant and the only way to deal is to cherish what you have while you have it and move on and don’t look back after it’s gone. As The Doctor says “I never know why. I only know who”.
My educational background is in international affairs. The box scene is the perfect example of brinksmanship... Good on the production team.
In answer to your question, “Why is Clara so special to 12”… I think it goes back to something 11 said about Amy, the Amy was the first face that 11 saw. The first face is imprinted.
Oh … the Day of the Doctor explanation works too.
Inb4 copyright claims! (Missed Trek finale..)
And, ahh yeah.. this is Capaldi at his best, most defining Doctor moment, I think.. There's so much here about political (and social) resentment, and hatred, and this story was amazing in how it summed up.. all of the series up to this point, but especially all of Modern Who, as an object lesson about it always winding back at the same place in the end.
To Paula's question, I don't think it was a full resolution, just like it never was back in the Day of the Doctor when it started. All it's saying is war, in terms of mass destruction, isn't the answer. The more complicated reality is that grievances still exist, and the solutions to those aren't simple let alone going to be solved in 1 episode.
Because A. She is Sooo much like Him. and B. Clara is unlike any Other companion. First, You save Every version of the Doctor. How do you top that? You Save the Doctor's Soul. How do you top that? You GUILT THE TIMELORDS INTO DOING THE RIGHT THING!
I actually don't understand why ppl don't get this...
I dunno i think the doctor and Clara being obsessed with each other is certainly a feature and not a bug. I mean we already have had hints that the dynamic isn’t healthy in episodes like deep breath, flatline deep breath/death in heaven and so i feel what i think is missed on some people is that you as a viewer are meant to be feeling kind of sketchy about their relationship, about how co dependent they are. Hopefully once Clara storys over (as she isn’t on the show for the rest of time as much as ali wish she was) You’ll understand what they were going for (emphasis on “understand” - i very much doubt Paula will appreciate it i reckon shes going to hate the finale ahah but appreciating and understanding are different)
theres no chance she likes the finale based on her current "understanding" of their relationship
This speech singlehandedly makes this my favourite episode of Doctor Who. Like ever.
Same
Sometimes you have that one friend who you don't necessarily always click with and others may even wonder how you even became or stay friends. On some levels, you may even be bad for each other. Through all this though, you are inseparable. At least, for a time. Looking back, this is kind of how I see The Doctor and Clara.
What is the reason for the importance of Clara? I see three things: 1) Her being interwoven into the lives of each of the known faces of the Doctor, up to Capaldi, and in each case being the proximate cause of saving him. 2) Clara is very much like the Doctor himself. The third one that occurs to me is perhaps the most important...3) Clara is also very much like River Song. She can be flirty with him, she is brilliant, and in many cases, much as River is able to do, she can "control" him.
Perhaps this is why, from a writing point of view, there is almost no interaction between River and Clara, except in a couple of instances.
Sorry, because I put the same in other comments... Don´t forget Clara was chosen by Missy to make the Doctor... almost dependant to her. She chose pretty well...
Thank you, Gallifrey Gals. Rewatching this season through your eyes made me finally realise it is sooooo much better than I remembered.
To be honest I don't think there's anything different about Clara. Coming from the classic Who perspective the companions seemed to be far more of an influence in the show and on the Doctor than ever before in the current series. And it really took me a while to get used to it, right from Rose in the beginning- or at least once it became obvious how infatuated the Doctor was with her. Clara's reason is obvious enough, being there to save all the Doctor's incarnations, so really it's not a mystery or anything. She's not more important than any of the others, just maybe because she clashes with him so often it makes it harder to deal with him putting up with it all. In the end though that's the Doctor more than ever- he demonstrated that quite clearly when he forgave the Master of all people.
This speech. this speech. It's what made Capaldi my Doctor, Tom Baker not included ;)
As to why Clara is so special, I believe every Companion is the most important to the Doctor *while they are with him* He commits to them fully. He chooses special people to anchor him. I think The Doctor's real power is making heroes spring up around him like weeds.
Also, it's a scripted TV show and he can't walk around saying, "You're alright, Amy was waaay better."
I don't see - or like! - Doctor Who as a romcom, so I tend not to get too analytical about Doctor/Companion relationships.... as long as there's a dramatic spark between them, and imho the Coleman/Capaldi combo delivered drama in spades :)
I'm definitely a 'He loves them all' sort of fan -- but maybe that's because I'm poly and think you can love many people and it's not about loving someone 'more' than another, because every relationship between people is unique. ❤️
The zygon speech has to be the best scene of dr who
Clara is the "First face this face saw" rule. The doctor always has an irrational attachment to whoever he sees first after regeneration. Same with the Ponds
From a character-development perspective that seems like a cop-out to me ngl. "They did X because they're being irrational" just seems like you couldn't be bothered to create a genuine motivation.
Regarding the name confusing Oswald - Osgood... There is a classic Who UNIT member called Osgood, and If I remember correctly it is implied that NuWho Osgood is a daughter or other relative of his.
Correct. Sergeant Osgood, an electronics/radio boffin with UNIT, appeared in _The Dæmons,_ a much-loved Third Doctor story.
Is it because she once did go back to the past to see the doctor as a child and she told him that he would come back to this barn and will be really afraid ( talking about the time war) that he says in this episode that it was her in his head ?
you shouldn't feel like you need to keep some of your clara opinions to yourself! clara has always been my fave and always will be but i'm interested in what you dislike about her too, and people who attack you for it are so ridiculous they aren't even worth listening to. i'd rather hear everything you're thinking than you keeping stuff to yourself, i'm here to know what you think of the show, good and bad!
to give you a different insight on 12s love for clara, i think it's partly because she's with him right now and i think he tries to move on from past companions so it doesn't hurt him. we all know rose, donna, and amy were extremely important to him when he was with them, but you very rarely see future incarnations reference them! i also think the relationship between 12 and clara is rare, they are extremely similar and their relationship definitely feels like an addiction (on clara's behalf anyway), where i don't feel like other companions felt like that. at this moment 12 and clara are all each other have and i feel like their feelings towards each other are a lot more complex than "i love travelling with you", they very much depend on each other and don't have anything or anyone else.
anyway, sorry for the essay! great reaction, that speech will forever be my favourite of the show :)
Hi Ladies, thanks for your honest reactions! For the 11th Doctor, Clara jumped into his timeline to save him, knowing that it should kill her. She was willing to let herself be ripped into many copies to the help all of the doctors. 11 also saw her versions die a few times and feel guilty about that. He does save her, but she is still the same original Clara in season 8 who jumped into his timeline. That history between them still exists. For 12, he had a major reboot that wasn't supposed to happen. It left him more jumbled and confused than usual and Clara was there for him as a grounding force during that. They also did have their ups and down through that time, but very much like people do who have deep feelings for eachother. The doctor really cares for all of his companions, but it didn't surprise me of how deep it was with Clara after their history and shown feelings. I also liked Clara from the beginning, so I was fine seeing the attachment that formed with her even back with 11 and into the complicated one with 12. Maybe me liking her made it easier for me to see their connection and be good with it. Thanks again for your reactions!
Um I don't think that this paradox of the impossible girl is canon. In the time of the doctor it is confirmed that she still has the memories.
I like this story a lot. Capaldi is acting his socks off in that speech and I love it.
Why Clara - because she was his first, as Amy was before and Rose before that.... Each Doctor is still finding themselves when the regenerate and they bond closely to their first companion - cos it partly shapes who they are becoming - at least thats my view.!
Jenna Coleman is great in Victoria too
I suspect part of the reason beyond the writing is that Clara had to get rushed in series 7 because Moffat lost 1 episode because of production delays. So the impossible girl just became a season long arc without his initial pay off unlike what he was able to do series 5 and 6. Also didn't help that he was making Sherlock series 3 at the same time as he was making the last 3 episodes of series 7 and day of the doctor. And he had such trouble with the BBC not giving the actors contracts because they wanted to keep casting cost low. So the reason he had set up Clara to be the impossible girl was so that she could if needed be the main character in the 50th anniversary special. Going through time and be the only person knowing which stories of the doctor was real and which were fake after G.I and her entered his timestream.
But I also suspect its because with Amy you had a fresh Doctor and companion who's relationship you saw through her eyes. With 12 and Clara you have baggage of her having had feelings for 11 before it became platonic with 12 and also you don't see the doctor through clara's eyes. You see Clara through the doctors eyes and he is seeing that she doesn't just want to travel with him before one day settling down, or like Donna who just wanted to travel until she was no longer able. They have been making it clear since the underground Boneless episode Clara wants to become just like him. But I feel the doctor would have said the same if it was 11 and Amy, Moffat just really likes writing about people who truly love each other more than the basic romantic or familial bond. He can have that in there as well, he just seem to think its important to showcase chosen family.
Shouldn't also whoever is the companion on the TARDIS be written like they are the most important? Once we get a new companion and a new doctor. Gone are the days pining for several series. We wouldn't want a repeat Martha situation where she had to deal with being compared to Rose.
As for the splinter group the doctor wouldn't have set this up if Bonnie hadn't started killing and if the complaints she had was "the humans are killing us". It's not because that only happens after they attack humans, but let's say that it was. Why not contact the doctor first instead? And you miss one crucial aspect of your argument for revolution. You can't have one without a war of some kind and all the things that the doctor listed. Yes we have had times in history where it was the only way, the french killed every man, woman and child that was a part of the ruling class and ever since the government has been afraid of the people.
But surely we have evolved since then?
Your ST:TNG vid got yanked down quick so I figured that I better watch this one fast before copyright enforcement algorithm strikes again.
Paula got more emotional about the Osgoods than during the speech lol first time I've seen that, makes a nice change.
Lots of people have soul mates and their relationship may not seem rational to the casual observer. Clara did mention "addiction" in an earlier episode, it could just be that.
Think forrest gump and Jenny , I bet Paula was shouting at the screen when she watched that film ha ha 😂
Yeah, the Doctor's had tons of Companions who've all meant.. so much to him (As we saw with Sarah Jane), but I think Clara's special mainly for being the one who was there to provide just that bit of nudge in the 50th that allowed the Doctor to save.. himself, really.. and not just 11 or the War Doctor but all of himself. That's kinda what the Companion does, especially at those critical moments when the Doctor would lose himself: adding that crucial moment of humanity.
Rose was special in that same way because she was that for him after he returns from ending the Time War and feeling PTSD. And I think similar cases can be found for Amy and Donna and so on. But the Day of the Doctor was pretty big, since the guilt of the Time War has been that dark facet that has really defined the Doctor (and weighed him down) throughout all of Modern Who.
An' yeah, all the Companions do that so there's that hint of well, Clara was kinda the one who happened to be there at the right time? Which I don't think I'd rebut necessarily, but I would say the series at least does kinda acknowledge it tacitly. Like, it's subtly there throughout Moffat's writing that the Companions mean more to the Doctor than they realize. To them, he's the Man with the Magic Box showing them the universe, and little conception they're any different from the former ones. But the Doctor sees what's special about each and every one of them.
"Clara was kinda the one who happened to be there at the right time"
That's part of the equation. Moffat wanted to write about aspects of the Doctor that are interesting or haven't been explored before. Moffat wasn't the writer in the past, so if he wants to tell those stories, he has to use what is around right now.
That speech...if I see it 100 times I'm going to cry 100 times...great reaction guys
The Doctor spent brief periods of his life with each of those other companions. The Doctor spent most of his life with souffles of which Clara is the recipe.
Paula - If you get a new girlfriend does it mean you loved your ex girlfriend any less??
Sidenote - He was 11 when he had Christmas dinner with Amy
He was 10 when he had Christmas dinner with Rose
Past, present or future, none of the doctors will ever be able to or have been able to top Peter's speech in this episode. He is such a fucking good doctor.
I have watched That Speech roughly 1.7 billion times and I cry every single time I watch even a single clip.
Why do we love the people we love? What makes them special! Why them, when we have so many other neat and better people in the world.
The negotiations not addressed in this episode is because they were properly addressed in the 50tg Special.
The Doctor's has dozens of companions, he has had to become emotionally closed off having lived for so long and lost so many people, from 2x3 School Reunion "You can spend the rest of your life with me… but I can’t spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on. Alone. That’s the curse of the Time Lords.".
Also, you might think he should be more emotionally attached to Rose or Donna but they were 300 years ago for The Doctor.
11 said to Amy that he was connected to her as she was "the first face this face saw", stands to reason the same would be said for 12 and Clara.
Finally, Clara is the companion who is the most like The Doctor, constantly challenging and pushing each other. Their relationship is by no means healthy but perhaps their similarities are what draws them to each other.
14:09, problem is, that however justifiable a conflict may be, a risk keeps rising with the momentum of the war of neither side willing to trust the other, or stop itself from doing things that will feed the enemy's hate.
I think the show typically focuses the doctor's affections on whoever the current companion is, which is just the way the show is written and I think understandable from a story writing perspective. If I wanted to be charitable, maybe I'd point out that this incarnation of the doctor has primarily only travelled with Clara. I know all the past companions are there in his memories, but perhaps that's different compared to his "own" memories in his current form. And his current incarnation may have a different response to losing a companion than his former ones may have, just like any number of other differences between them.
Clara is special because she's the Impossible Girl. She's spent unknown numbers of lifetimes saving the Doctor.
Yes, but she was special even before the Doctor realise that, during Eleven´s run.
BEST 12th Doctor speech of his entire run!!! Right up there with 11's Rings of Akhaten speech!
The best speech in Doctor Who ever for me, Peter Capaldi has so much presence, I can't take my eyes off him as he delivers it.
yes.. made it to one of the doctors most epic speeches. gets me every time.
Post time-war (the entire new series), the Doctor has been more emotionally needy than he was pre time-war (the classic series). This neediness and vulnerability has ramped up a bit with the significant loss of companions in ways not of anyone’s choosing (Rose, Rory & Amy). In many ways Clara is the rebound girl, but she is also fun, flirty, and more assertive/dominant in personality than we typically see in the companions.
The 11th Doctor said that he cared about Amy a lot more than others as she was the first face he seen. I don’t know if it’s a new thing in New Who, but the first person each Doctor has seen, has been who he is most attached to.
"He's too old to be The Doctor!" Can you believe people passed on Capaldi?
I have my theory about Clara being that important. Remember she was chosen by Missy. It´s the Master who chose a person to bug the Doctor. He/She chose very well. At least it works for me.
This episode, and The Speech, settled Capaldi as my favourite Doctor. And made me like Osgood (Petronela Osgood) even more...
man i forgot the speech in this episode what a treat partially forgetting it feels like watching it the first time
Capaldi's speech has to be one of the best speeches ever given of television.
Probably my second favorite speech from the show. It's so freaking good and Capaldi's performance is incredible. I personally still think Matt Smith's speech in Rings of Akhaten is a bit better, but their is no denying that these are the two best speeches from the show.
Ah! I'm the opposite! Rings of akhaten speech is AMAZING but this one just tops it for me. Both are absolutely phenomenal though!
@@gwinnellheald8592 It's hard to choose between these two because of them are so incredible. Smith and Capaldi both have some of the best performances from the show.
"DOCTOR: What is it that you actually want?
(After a long pause.)
CLARA-Z: War.
DOCTOR: Ah. Ah, right. And when this war is over, when you have a homeland free from humans, what do you think it's going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you're very close to getting what you want. What's it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? Will there be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who's going to make the violins? Well? Oh, you don't actually know, do you? Because, like every other tantrumming child in history, Bonnie, you don't actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad guys, and when it's all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?
CLARA-Z: We'll win.
DOCTOR: Oh, will you? Well, maybe, maybe you will win! But nobody wins for long. The wheel just keeps turning. So, come on. Break the cycle.
CLARA-Z: Why are you still talking?
DOCTOR: Because I want to get you to see, and I'm almost there!
CLARA-Z: Do you know what I see, Doctor? A box. A box with everything I need. A fifty percent chance.
KATE: For us, too.
(Both women have their hands poised over the buttons. The Doctor resumes Games Host mode.)
DOCTOR: And we're off! Fingers on buzzers! Are you feeling lucky? Are you ready to play the game? Who's going to be quickest? Who's going to be luckiest?
KATE: This is not a game!
DOCTOR: No, it's not a game, sweetheart, and I mean that most sincerely.
(Do a search on Hughie Green if you don't get the reference.)
CLARA-Z: Why are you doing this?
KATE: Yes, I'd quite like to know that, too. You set this up. Why?
DOCTOR: Because it's not a game, Kate. This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought, right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn! How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning. Sit down and talk! (sigh) Listen to me. Listen, I just, I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It's just a fancy word for changing your mind.
CLARA-Z: I will not change my mind.
DOCTOR: Then you will die stupid. Alternatively, you could step away from that box, you can walk right out of that door and you could stand your revolution down.
CLARA-Z: No! I'm not stopping this, Doctor. I started it. I will not stop it. You think they'll let me go, after what I've done?
DOCTOR: You're all the same, you screaming kids. You know that? Look at me, I'm unforgivable. Well, here's the unforeseeable. I forgive you. After all you've done, I forgive you.
CLARA-Z: You don't understand. You will never understand.
DOCTOR: I don't understand? Are you kidding? Me? Of course I understand. I mean, do you call this a war? This funny little thing? This is not a war! I fought in a bigger war than you will ever know. I did worse things than you could ever imagine. And when I close my eyes I hear more screams than anyone could ever be able to count! And do you know what you do with all that pain? Shall I tell you where you put it? You hold it tight till it burns your hand, and you say this. No one else will ever have to live like this. No one else will have to feel this pain. Not on my watch!
(Kate closes the lid of the red box and steps back.)"
Awesomeness!
OMG I clicked so fast! It is time for THE SPEECH!!
The reason Clara is so special is because her and the doctor are too similar.
Clara is the most important person to the Twelfth Doctor. Rose, Martha, Donna etc. become less significant with each regeneration. Maybe in the next incarnation, River Song will become a fading memory rather than a significant other. The only former companion never to leave the Doctor's thoughts is his/her granddaughter Susan. Even Sarah Jane didn't figure in his head until he was reunited with her in School Reunion. Personally, I think Clara's significance is perfectly justified in the context of the era.
Each Doctor tends to have someone they're particularly close to, and who they 'click' with a lot. Especially in NuWho where they'll be with just one person usually for a long time. I don't think Clara is put on more of a pedestal than, say, Rose. She's just different because she's more a kindred spirit than a foil like Donna or more of a partner like Rose.
She's also interesting because of her weird timeline/different version stuff. He was initially interested in her as an intriguing mystery, and then she's continued to be a close companion. He tends to mope about whoever he's with at the time. The only person he really spoke about after they left in NuWho was Rose, who annoys me similarly to Clara lol.
The Clara thing, similarly to Rose, also becomes clearer in retrospect.
Clara is his current companion, he's focused on her.
The Doctor doesn’t say she is the only or most important companion to him he simply says that when she gets inside your head she doesn’t leave. You could say the same thing about River, Amy, Rose, Donna etc it’s just the comment wouldn’t work because he is talking to a double of Clara.
The Doctor stops the war; it's up to the Humans and Xygons to negotiate peace. He's not trying to solve all their problems, just give them a chance to do the solving themselves.
I feel that Clara is so important to this doctor because it's was his first connection he had after regeneration much like 10 was with rose and 11 with Amy I always feel that even tho the doctor is the same person when he regenerates it's like a new life just with memory's of his past life so I feel that because she was the first of this doctors life there is a special connection between them
It may have been mentioned, but in a way the Doctor IS responsible for this situation, like Bonnie said... at least indirectly. In the 50th Anniversary, it was said that the Zygon homeworld that was destroyed in the early days of the Time War. Collateral damage from his war. Granted he's been making amends ever since, by establishing the colony on Earth and keeping the peace, but his people (and the Daleks) are the ultimate cause of the situation.
One more thing. I saw the Confidential special about this episode, and Osgood´s actress said that all she could do during the Doctor´s speech was to stand there and cry...
I don't suppose you could post on twitter a gif of the reaction to the end scene of TNG 4x26 since CBS is CBS and wont let you post it? Was looking forward to that reaction for a few weeks.
Not a bad idea!! I'll see what we can do ☺️
@@KatAlysha I'm on it!
I’m starting my Doctor Who journey, and I’m on the First Doctor, currently. Enjoying it so far, and I can’t wait to get to the more recent seasons.
Why is Clara so important to Twelve compared to any of his other companions? For a few reasons. One, the other companions travelled with other versions of him, not Twelve. Two, Clara was the first face his face saw. Three, she stayed with him and helped him after his regeneration into a completely different personality. Four... she is so like the Doctor, a theme that was explored in Flatline last series.
We're also only a few episodes after Ashildr wanted to travel with the Doctor, and he decline her request because he didn't think two people so similar should be travelling together. The whole point of Clara and Twelve, as we've seen in S8 is their similarity and toxicity towards each other. They're like magnets to each other.
This single scene cemented Capaldi as one of the BEST Doctor's....PERIOD! And I am a lifelong Baker fan...and Tennant admirer. To finally have a Doctor that just lets his pure, raw emotions out...I mean, my god! I still get all weepy at it!
And to think this was the ONLY take that was ever filmed. Capaldi nailed it THAT hard....ONE BLOODY TAKE!!!!
“How many worlds has his regret saved?” - the War Doctor
This is a story that I think everyone praises on the basis of the last 10/15 minutes, because the vast majority of “The Zygon Inversion” is good, but not great. There’s plenty of stuff I like of course, Jenna Coleman’s dual turn as Clara and Bonnie is fantastic, with the interrogation between the pair being a particular highlight. In general, I like Bonnie as a villain, I love how she shifts between being this cold monster and throwing tantrums when things go badly for her. It’s also nice to see Osgood step into the companion role in Clara’s place, her and the Doctor have a really fun dynamic, and it gives her a chance to be fleshed out as a character. The Zygons are really well used too, there’s a lot more focus on the paranoia behind their shapeshifting abilities, and the scenes with the one civilian Zygon does a great job at showing that not all the Zygons are evil, and there are those who just want to live in peace.
But what the episode is beloved for is the climactic speech, and what an ending it is. Yeah there are some issues, there is a feeling that it goes on a little bit too long, and the fact that the Doctor has done this at least 15 times does undercut the effectiveness a little bit. But who cares about that, this speech is FUCKING PHENOMENAL. The script that Moffat and Peter Harness have written is fantastic, packed full of brilliantly poignant lines (the part where the Doctor refers to the boxes as a scale model of war was particularly powerful). And of course, Capaldi’s performance is magnificent, normally an episode ending with the Doctor giving a speech that gets the villain to stand down would be ridiculous, but Capaldi shows such great power, energy, and conviction in his performance, that you’d have to have a heart of stone not to be moved. He puts so much emotion into the speech; sarcasm, anger, pain, regret, desperation, empathy, all perfectly conveyed, sometimes with just a single facial expression. And the decision to not have any music playing for most of the scene just makes it even more powerful, you really get the sense that this isn’t one of his usual ostentatious monologues, he is baring his soul for everyone, both in and out of universe to see, and helps cement this as a defining moment for this incarnation of the character. He’s no longer moping about his trauma like Tennant, nor is he bottling it up like Smith, he is letting it all out, and establishing himself as someone trying to atone for his actions, making sure that no one else makes the same horrible mistakes as him. It’s a beautiful powerful sequence, made even more so by the fact that this was broadcast in the UK on the day before Remembrance Sunday (by the way, nice job with timing the release of this reaction).
So that’s a wrap on the Zygon two-parter. It’s a bit of a mess on the whole, but it’s a very enjoyable mess, and more than enough to redeem Peter Harness after “Kill the Moon”. There’s some incisive and effective political commentary, a great sense of scale and scope, some nice character moments for the Doctor, Clara, and Osgood, a phenomenal one-shot villain, and it all gets wrapped up with one of the most beautiful and poignant sequences in the entirety of the revival. Yet another great entry in series 9, and to think that the best is still to come…
I loved the Tom Baker Zygon's as a small child and got unduly excited for their return in the 50th anniversary special and almost died from freaking out when old Tom made a cameo. The Capaldi ones were great too.. Looking forward to the 60th on November 23.
(Sorry about the necro. I only just found your channel because of Red Dwarf.)
PS Petronella Osgood was underused. I thought she was brilliant.
There really is a few factors as for why the Doctor cares so much for Clara.
Them being so similar to one another, her being the 12th Doctors first companion and also her being his longest standing companion, at least from his perspective.
The Doctor was somewhere around 1100-1200 years old when he first met Clara and is now over 2000 years old.
Not to mention stuff like her helping him save Gallifrey, all the impossible girl stuff and her being responsible for the Doctor even having regenerated into Capaldi in the first place.
It's honestly kinda crazy how much of an influence Clara has had on the Doctor's life.
I love that Kate is as badass as her dad, the Brigadier, ie the #1 envelope.
I have been waiting for you to get here. Capaldi at his best. One of the best moments of new Who. Many of which come from Capaldi.