@@MetalheadAndNerd definitely... How they work through the rigidity problems Voron had to deal with going 350 build is gonna bring the cost way up or speed down. Dunno which
I'll eventually buy an X1C. I know a lot of people like to tinker with their 3d printers, but I don't. I use mine as a tool to make parts to tinker with or build other things, but I don't want to have to tinker with the printer. Having something that simply works and allows me to continue design work without having to stop and tune or monitor print progress would be a huge QoL improvement and also increase my productivity.
Exactly the same as I don't feel like tinkering with my laser printer when printing excell documents. A 3D printer should be properly calibrated to print at it's best out of the box.
@@dingdingdingdiiiiing your laser printer isn't a 3-axis CNC machine. If you want to make precision parts you need to setup the machine, that's just life. Even a $$$$$$ industrial CNC machine requires the operator to do calibration after delivery, or they'll send a technician to do it, because it has to be done on location after the machine has been put where it's going to be used. Don't tell me you've never owned or used a printer that left faint horizontal lines around the text, or random black speckles; at least on a 3d printer you have the capability of fixing it yourself instead of either chucking it or just living with the flaws like a dpcument printer.
@@tissuepaper9962 but it would be nice if that CNC didn't NEED to be setup by you or a technician and self-calibrated.... if 3d printers can get there, like the X1C then that's exactly what people really want. this is what made prusa good too. out of the box no tinker printing. i don't want to tinker with the printer either... i can and have but i rather not waste my time on it outside of swapping filament and removing the prints from the bed.
@@digibluh you can do automatic bed leveling with a cheap bolt-on touch probe and a firmware update, you don't need a $1200 Lidar-enabled printer to get a good first layer automatically. Squaring the axes is literally not possible to do automatically if you want the resulting mechanism to be small and stiff enough to be used for 3d printing, they're doing that at the factory and that level of precision can't survive shipping. There is a very good reason that industrial CNC machines don't automatically tram themselves; a real human being with an analog dial indicator does a better job. An Ender3 is made entirely out of standard parts, it's the easiest thing in the world to repair or upgrade. The X1C is mostly custom parts, that alone completely nullifies the convenience factor because it's only convenient until you need to repair it and the only place to buy a part is bambulabs. Why not use a service like shapeways if all you're worried about is getting the part at the end? You're buying the MacBook of 3d printers, an unrepairable product-as-a-service that sells itself on the premise that it "just works".
@@TheBPJo you can just purchase the pre-orer types. there is probably few containers on their way to the local warehouses. i got my printer exactly as promised, 2 months later after ordering the pre-order from their site!
Only due to the Open Source spirit of Prusa, DUET, VORON and many others have we come to the point where we are today. If we want to continue seeing innovation, everyone needs to contribute who built on that work. A monopole doesn't help anyone long term and will kill innovation efforts if there isn't any competition anymore. This is what people and especially customers need to understand and I hope Bambulab will add their fair share!
The fact that it's still able to use the multicolor printing upgrade makes it a winner for me. Faster printing without making errors is also a win. Still not in my budget until I do more work, but it's on my list for the future. _I also want to get a resin printer for the more detailed/precision parts._ _I have a FLSun SR with a rebuilt hot end(because the default nozzles and break just didn't work)_
I've been a MK3s owner for many years, and after upgrading it to the Revo ecosystem recently, it's still an extremely versatile and functional machine. I wasn't sold on the X1C until after they fulfilled their KS orders. Then I put in a preorder, and much to my surprise, the printer showed up at my door only a few days later. Having owned it for a week, I'll say that the hype is mostly justified, it does a lot of amazing things well. But there is one issue I should highlight: we've all been sold on the 17 min benchy, but you can't quite access that speed normally. Yes, that was the first print I did. And yes, my X1C really did indeed print a 17 min benchy with my own generic PLA filament. And yes, I just took it out of the box, hooked everything up, did the first boot calibration, fed in some filament, and it successfully printed that 17 min benchy. Truely as turnkey of a solution as I've ever seen. I never had to do any bed leveling or z-offset setting! Anyway, back to my peeve. So clearly the benchy shows me that yes, in fact the printer on my desk, using my filament is able to print about 5x faster than my MK3s. However, if I go into Bambuslicer, and slice the benchy, no matter what slicer tricks I try, I cannot get it lower than about 45 min. Which is still very fast, but it is not 17 min fast. For comparison, on my profile in Prusaslicer, the benchy is about 90 min. So 45 min is about 2x faster, but that's far from 5x. Sure I can turn on ludicrous mode, but even then I don't think it'll get to 17 min. I don't see any profile in Bambuslicer that says "ridiculous fast speedboat mode". Anyway, my point is, we were sold on the 17 min benchy, which it CAN do, but for some reason, as a X1C user, I am unable to access those speeds from Bambuslicer. That's a little bit annoying. EDIT: it was pointed out the main difference between the 17 min benchy and my Generic PLA slice result in BambuSlicer is the max volumetric flow and max fan layer time setting. I can confirm that adjusting these to match the Bambu Basic PLA, and then using Ludicrous mode does in fact result in a 17 min benchy. Kudos to all those who helped with their tips!
That demo benchy was hand-sliced. Somebody at BL spent a lot of time tuning the slice layer by layer and probably even section by section to get the most possible speed out of it. Slicing software isn't capable of that level of precision and self-tweaking (yet). Yeah, it's disappointing if you thought that everything would print that fast, but that's marketing for you.
Swap it in the slicer from generic pla to bambu pla and it will be 17 mim bench again. Or abs and crank the speeds up. So far I'm stuck on a 12 min abs bench that's reasonable but I want a sub 10 min
@@mortalwombat5811 This sounds like nonsense. No way someone manually sliced it. More logically they probably shot up the accels and flow rates, which you can do in the slicer. Heck Ill do it right now and comment back on my success.
@Stefan they did give back to the open source community. Even Prusa noted it. They provided multiple build plate slicing/jobs and STEP support both of which Prusa is borrowing. Just like everyone adopted Arachne from Cura. Bambu is showing they are here to help the community as whole so far, let’s just hope they continue.
It's not like they made a pull request to Prusa Slicer though - the Prusa team picked it up themselves from the open sourced code. Nothing wrong with that, but it hardly counts as active involvement in the open source community. That said, the accusation that Bambu Lab had ever violated license terms (now repeated by both Tom Sanladerer and CNC Kitchen) is wrong AFAIK and stems only from a complaint tweeted by Jo Prusa, back _before_ Bambu Lab was even distributing the slicer to customers.
@@henninghoefer doesn’t matter. They were distributing it to at least reviewers. And the GPL is quite strickt there. You can basically do nothing unless you release the source. Even for internal tools or anything.
@@nukularpictures That's not correct, internal tools do not need their source to be released even if they use GPL components. And the source is not required to be publicly available either, it can be provided upon request. I don't know if anyone requested it and was denied, but it's now on GitHub, which seems perfectly reasonable.
@@gjsmo What you most likely mean by internal tools is "private software" and that is not what bamboo did. See the comment from nukularpictures. "Internal tools" could mean a lot of course, but it is clear if there is code used directly or indirectly shipped to or used another legal entity it is not covered by private use. I am honestly a little bit surprised people even argue on that. Of course most likely Bamboo did not do it on purpose and most likely it was just a small mistake that can happen - fair. But what Thomas and Stefan claims is simply true in this regard is definitely true and Bamboo them self even acknowledged IMHO, because otherwise they would not just have corrected the mistake without claiming they did it out of good will.
I have the X1C (couple of them) and I like the idea of the P1P if it works about the same as the X1C - as far as fixing things on it, it is still unscrew and replace like most of the other machines on the market. I run my printers for my business so the less I have to tinker on my farm machines the better. I just keep extra parts on hand like I do with all of my printers. I'm in the process of building a pellet machine that will use the chopped up waste from the X1C to print large scale prints that will be painted. I would like a X1C with a build volume of at least 400x400 with speed close to what it is currently
A friend recently got the X1C. I saw it in action firsthand and was blown away. Having been using Creality machines for the past 1.75 years, these things blow them clean out of the water. So much that I will be ordering a P1P this week myself. While I really want an X1C, the P1P will be ideal for what I need it for and the money it will make will pay for the X1C even faster. The speed at which I can knock out projects is worth its weight in gold.
I'd love to know what effect removing the lidar has on print quality. If it's not there to help ensuring a great first layer, but the P1P is intended to print at the same high speeds, will print quality reduce or have higher chances of failing?
Well, this "just" means that you need to tune pressure advance manually and need to make sure that flow is set right. Other than that the LIDAR doesn't help and only adds weight to the toolhead.
@@CNCKitchen Could you please share how manual pressure advance calibration works on bambu environment? Is it possible to change coefficient on their slicer?
@@mrjoelpt Well, they made the decision to not offer it as an option. Virtually all other differences (except the heated bed) can be purchased rather reasonably if you REALLY want the Camera for example. Side panels have been released for free printing, hardened nozzle, Enclosure fan, etc. are also available. You can even buy the glass door and top panel for around $50 USD if you REALLY want then! All the prices are MORE than reasonable. As far as the LIDAR - several people have discussed this in other YT Vids and virtually everyone agrees the LIDAR is not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Nice but not really necessary. The huge number of major features are still there on the P1P, for this price it's a killer.
Important to note that Bambu have confirmed that the Micro LiDAR calibration on the X1 series *is not* currently doing flow calibration (despite the name), it's *just* doing PA/LA calibration.
@@engineeringdisillusion pa/la means linear/pressure advance. They do the same thing just on Kliper/Marlin. The aim is to remove over/under extrusion at the start/end by gauging the width of the extrusion. They do nothing in the middle, nor the height. If the LIDAR worked as promised it would do complete flow monitoring/adjustment the entire time, as it can measure the width and height of the extrusion in real time.
As an Ender 3 Pro owner I have been very impressed with what I got for such a low price, I upgraded to a silent motherboard-essential IMHO. If I were to upgrade I’d want an enclosed bed and a bigger print area. I do print functional parts within the limitations of PLA but the fibre reinforced filaments look very tempting. So to sum up I’d buy the higher spec machine.
Dude I will never not use tmc2208 drivers again. pretty amazing that $60 can completely change how an ender 3 feels. Being able to use it a few feet away from me without even noticing it was a game changer
I think Bambu Labs have done themselves proud with the three machines - people like myself can get the speed advantage at a rock bottom price, anyone that needs a plug and play appliance for their home or office can have that, and the middle ground is also still covered. Thanks Stefan for the really good look at this printer. And now I have to start a new penny jar...
Hey there! If I don't care about the budget, but I only print PLA and want the best reliability, which printer of these two should I choose? Is the X1C better for purely PLA printing still? Thanks for any help
I would love to know about how effective the automatic pressure advance calibration of the X1C is. Its this printers biggest innovation but I actually haven't seen comparative tests, and have no idea how the memory for filaments work etc and i have one. It seems like the sort of thing that requires the type of testing I dont have the time or variety of filaments to test.
I ordered a P1P yesterday. I could have easily afforded the X1C, but I actually prefer the P1P. I've already ordered custom cut polycarbonate, and am printing the parts in ABS for the vision enclosure. Beautiful magnetic panels easily removed when needed. The lidar is a gimmick, and doesn't even work on the build plates I will use. Couldn't care less about a touch screen, and the silver cover would be the first thing I would remove. I can't stand working in a cave, and I WILL be modding this thing. Also the extruder gears, and other mods are very reasonably priced, but I will be putting in my own LED lights, and camera system, thank you very much. Really looking forward to it.
Personally I don't care about losing the enclosure, the high temp bed or nozzle but losing the camera and some of those other first layer perfecting features probably makes it a pass for me. At that point it's not much different than my prusa just a lot faster. If I was going to buy a new printer I'd splurge for the carbon
@@alejandroperez5368 You must be new to the 3d printing community - so far you were more into communitys where it is normal to answer reasonable points with personal slurs.
@@zebarzebra nope, I've had the Ender 3 for years. Your comment only makes sense if you're printing only with PLA and PETG. But zero ABS or ASA parts ;)
@@alejandroperez5368 As an Ender 3 owner who seems to think highly of themselves I would have expected you to be aware that none of those features are required to print functional parts, partly because there are ways to get printers to print ASA/ABS without a built in enclosure (eg using an external enclosure as many Ender 3 owners do), and partly because PETG and PLA are perfectly serviceable as structural parts if used appropriately.
I will buy the X1 Carbon because i want a reliable Printer. working on printers is fun but if i need something it should work, because thats why you have a 3d printer
I think they are making the right moves and really pushing the bounds of the 3d printing market. I am probably going to go with the Carbon X1 because of my desire to print carbon filaments, but what a great option for those who are only using pla and the like. Very smart move. Now the one con, give us a usbc or an either-net port on the printers as an option to cloud printing ! I want to be able to use my machine locally and not have to use wifi (cloud), then these will be perfect as far as I'm concerned. That is my biggest gripe, no way to hard wire to my computer. I hope they are reading the comments, as I'm really close to buying one or both of these machines. Cheers.
Oh goodness, Stefan, I just ordered a P1P and now I'm second-guessing myself. I'm brand new at 3D printing and I was about to order the X1C but the lesser was announced. I hope I didn't make a mistake in cutting back! Thank you for the honest review, Stefani
You'll be happy with the P1P as well, especially as a beginner. Hotend and extruder can be upgraded to hardened steel if you ever want to print re-inforced materials.
@CNC Kitchen Thank you for the reassurance and I'm glad to know that I can upgrade those items. I originally was planning on adding a few upgrades when I ordered but the black Friday order didn't allow me to add to the order. I wanted another color filament but I didn't know enough about what I could use with this machine...yes, I'm that new to this 😳
Hands down I'd go with the P1P, and customize as needed vs paying for all the factory upgrades. Although, I don't own either as I'm waiting to see what kind of reputation they build, their reliability, customer service and contributions to the community.
I'm more of a maker, than a tinkered. I also like the higher temperature materials that are available on the X1C out of the box. For MY needs, the X1C is my choice... I'm already saving for a second one. That said, the P1P should have no problems filling in the niche that it is targeted at and has the potential to stretch a fair amount outside of that. If I was still more of a tinkerer, I would have jumped on the P1P in a heartbeat. I seriously considered buying a pre-order but after sleeping on it for a bit, decided that it was better to wait until I can get a 2nd X1C.
Hey CNC Kitchen I just subscribed, love your channel, how high quality it is and how much detail you include when testing different materials or reviewing 3D printers. DON'T EVER STOP!!! 😁👊👌👍
I got both the MK3 and the X1C. Not gonna lie, the later opens way more possibilities. But I’m way more scared to break it. Because you can’t « break » a Prusa. Unless the whole machine catches fire, you can always dismantle it, reprint, and re-fasten the parts. The Bambu ? Not so much ; I can’t even remove the back panel
@@LilApe Open bearing rails means it's relatively simple to get debris on them that permanently ruin the mechanism. Relatively though, it's a rare failure case but means you have to strip and replace one (or both) bearing rails, and sometimes the plastic parts have to be re-printed as well. It's a PITA to diagnose and fixing it requires a full rebuild.
It's true that you can repair a Prusa, and the benefit of that can't be overstated. However, I think comparing it with a Prusa MK3 is the wrong comparison. The MK3 is 5-6 year old technology. Somehow Prusa continues to sell them for $1100, but in reality the MK3 should be a $300 printer (see the Sovol SV-06 - better than then MK3 in almost every way, now selling for $229). A better comparison would be the X1C vs. a Voron Trident. The Voron is also open source and can be repaired and easily modded. Both the Voron and the X1C are designed to print materials that require an enclosure. Parts on my Mk3 started failing rapidly (Z motor developed bad bearing, Z probe failed, extruder probe mount drooped) when I enclosed it. Both the Voron and the X1C can hit accelerations and speeds that the MK3 just can not reach. Even after "upgrading" my printer with a Bear frame, a Y axis linear rail mod, and Klipper with Input Shaper enabled, I can't get remotely close to the same speed as the X1C or Voron. Plus it is an uphill battle to add mods to a Prusa that are either simple to add to a Voron or come built in on the Bambu Labs (an accelerometer, for example). So yes, you can maintain and even mod an MK3, but the amount of time and money you put into that, the limited improvements you will get, and the over-priced nature of the base printer make it a poor choice in 2022. I was hoping that Prusa could turn it around with the XL, but with the delays in shipping and the introduction of the X1C at almost half the price, I am starting to have doubts.
As an X1C owner there are some motion processing issues. Many people reporting vertical lines on outer faces. Not ringing. It’s a bug which no one on TH-cam seems to mention. As long as it gets fixed then id recommend the printer but until it does it’s not great when printing slower for quality.
Thx dood. I’ve not seen any other channel mention the bushings on the lead screws for the P1P. Other tiny changes like a weaker tool head cable incompatible with cable chain (which was also removed) show how the P1P is not just stripped down but actually more economically built (lower quality). Not complaining, it’s just worth mentioning so thanks for that!! (-8
Cost summary Description Price Subtotal 659,00 € Shipping (Germany) 9,00 € Estimated taxes 126,92 € Total EUR 794,92 € Should also be mentioned at least once in the video, $699 is not the final price, practically nobody pays $699! Important for Europeans, as we are used to seeing posted prices as final prices, i.e. tax included and not everyone immediately thinks as "American"...
822€ here in Italy. That was a pain, i've decided to wait for a well tuned version of the P1P, prolly around march 2023 or hoping that x1c will require a lower price...(actually around 1650€ in pre-order)
How are they supposed to show a "final price" including taxes in their advertisements when they sell internationally? Tax rates vary by country, are they supposed to list 186 different prices?
X1C backer here and love the machine. And since for me 3D printing is more of a tool supporting my other hobbies than a hobby in and of it self, it suits me better than the p1p and my previous printers (Anycubic, Solidoodle…). But I’m happy they released it nevertheless-great for 3D printing enthusiasts and helps ensure bambulab‘s future both in general as well as in the more lowcost, hobbyist market! So what’s not to like about that?
I use the p1p for some weeks now, and i needed nothing to calibrate or change. Send a print to it, wait, done. For half the price it’s just amazing. And if i ever want to print abrasive stuff i get the hardened nozzle and one of the already available 3rd party enclosures (starting at around 50 bucks for an acrylic one) and have basically the same machine, except the lidar. For me the P1P canibalized the X1C, because that’s the one i originally planed to get 😁😉
I bought the X1C because I wanted a printer that I didn't have to fiddle with to make work - I wanted something that I could just hit "go" on and walk away. Bambu has delivered on that. I also wanted to easily print ABS, and the X1C does that, too. Something I didn't expect but am very pleased by is the way the X1C is super-accurate if you slow it down a little; I can run it at about half its default speeds, still be almost 50% faster than my Ender 5, and be *amazingly* mechanically accurate. Is the P1P the same motion system? If it is, it seems like it would be a good choice for a first printer - for those of us who want a 3d printer to make our imaginations take physical form, rather than as a building project, anyway. At some point (when I have more money) I'd like to get a very accurate, easy-to-use printer, put a 0.2mm nozzle on it, and be able to print really detailed things without having to deal with the toxicity of resin. A Voron 0 would be a good choice for that, but I'm not interested in building a printer, so - with the X1 being a similar out-of-pocket cost - I was leaning towards getting a second X1. Now that the P1P is available, it's moved up to the top of my "probably this one" list.
Feel like it’s missing a lot without the LiDAR/filament calibration. Biggest advantage to me is ease of use and no calibration on my end, I load my print and have very little to calibrate/slice
The ingenuity of this product goes FAR beyond cost cutting. By releasing a machine at this price point they are inviting tinkerers/hackers//makers to improve their product. A) Low hanging fruit is the side panels. Besides printing custom designs, people will be exploring different materials similar to CONSTRUCT3D like Bamboo or GR10. The open frame also begs for a door and a top similar to the X1. B) Next level is camera, lights, and fan. Yes, they will gladly sell you those options. But the more adventurous will likely develop their own custom solutions. Can users develop a quieter, cheaper alternative to that noisy fan everyone complains about? Can we implement our own imaging system with better resolution? What's the best arrangement for LED lighting? C) Can the existing hardware be improved? Extruder, Hot End, Nozzle mods. How long before we see Revo, Phaetus XG, Bondtech, Orbiter "hacks"? D) Finally, the teardowns and experiments with electronics and software. Can ANY of the electronic hardware be "hacked"? What is in the new display - Is it an ESP32 S3 like the LilyGo T-Embed? Is BambuBus just a trademarked implementation of CAN Bus? How many individuals really just want to see if they can use this for their next Voron/RatRig/VZbot/Hevort project? Ever since the X1 was announced, people have been clamoring - "Does it run Klipper?" "Can I put Klipper on it?" What does Bambu Lab gain from this? A) FREE publicity for the next 6+ months. And not just a name drop. Every Video/Blog entry/Social media post will literally be encouraging new customers to join the fray and make this product the machine you always wanted. At the reduced price, you can't afford NOT to buy one and play around. If you own a print farm, you need half a dozen. B) A community of developers and beta testers. Exploring improvements from a world of different perspectives. Finding out not just what customers are looking for but free "open-source" implementations. I'm NOT saying that any of this is bad. Ultimately we will have to see how they truly treat the community. In fact, DISCLAIMER: I already ordered mine in expectation of investigating a lot of what I outline above. But I'm hoping this works out favorably for ALL. "A rising tide raises ALL boats" (or Benchies!)
After 18months of upgrades on my ender3, ( glass bed - BL touch - microswiss DD - PI with octopirnt then to kilpper) I now trust my self with a quality 3d printer just went and per ordered 1 of these bad boys
As someone new to 3D printing, I am happy this printer is at a lower price point. I already pre-ordered mine and I really hope they start shipping before the new year - but that is just me being incredibly excited. ;)
Did you watch the whole video, because I talk about it? P1P is the loudest, X1 is a bit quieter when you close the door and the MK3 is levels more pleasant to work next to.
IMHO there are several demographics 3D printers address. First is the experimenter who wan'ts to make everything from scratch and tweak it to their hearts desire. Then there's the person who isn't using a printer for professional work but want's an affordable but serious printer as a hobbyist or for schools. Then we have the maker community that really can't be narrowed down since it involves every desire. Finally we have print farms and high end commercial operations who need reliability and productivity. Some making trinkets to others making aerospace and automotive parts. Not everyone who wants a high end machine intends to use it as a business and not everyone who has a print farm needs an ultra high end machine. Thanks for your videos. I'm learning a lot from the technology that is reaching new levels of sophistication without having to spend your children's college money to purchase or have maddening fiddling to keep running. Gott segne und danke.
I'd love one of these. As much as I've tinkered with my Ender 3 Pro, upgrading this or that piece on it, at the end of the day it would be nice to just have a printer that works out of the box and at a decent speed.
Howdy Stefan. Ubiratã from Brasilia, Brazil here. I have to say: I think the Bambulab P1P looks like an awesome product. Even though it lacks some of the outstanding features of the x1 carbon (like the lidar and automatic pressure advance and flow adjustment) it costs 500 USD less! That’s quite q lot of money! Although it does not have side panels (which can be used easily custom made locally using policarbonate panels for example) it can still be used for some filaments like ABS (specially for parts not so big) due to its ludicrous speed. Depending on the kind of parts being printed there simply won’t be enough time for them to warp significantly. Still, as I mentioned, nothing keeps the user from getting locally made panels (cutting their own) so the printer can be properly isolated from air drafts. It’s still a ridiculously fast printer (might even not be as fast as a Voron but enough for the majority of users) that manages to become readymade for (way) less money and work it would take to build a Voron 2.4 250x250x250. (Voron users might want my head for this remark LOL but the fact is that the majority of 3D Print users simple does not have the knowledge or even the will to go to the assembly process, even though a well built Voron is a hell of a printer). Abrasive materials? I think it would be only a matter of ordering the hardened steel nozzle from Bambulabs itself. My only personal problem with Bambulabs is that Brazil is not on their availability list. It it was , I’d be already on the pre-order for the P1P (or better, might have already sold a kidney for the x1 Carbon, LOL). BTW, one thing I didn’t know that I found out through this specific video is that the AMS doesn’t need to be mounted on top of the printer, it can be mounted on the side (I didn’t know that until now). That’s perfect for me, as the Bambulabs printers (without the AMS on top) are a perfect fit (with a little slack for the moving parts) into my workspace (anything taller just won’t fit).
I hope Brazil becomes an availability for you! BTW - Bambu has released printable side panels (even in several patterns!), and the glass top and door are on their orderable parts page! Cheers from the US.
Was thinking about updgrading my ender 3 printer and the p1p seems like a great option. Only drawback for me is the noise level because I have the printer in my room.
If I were to get something like this it would be for material option expansion, so I'd want to go with the X1C. I see the P1P as a goodove for the company though since there are probably lots of people who would want what it provides without having to pay the X1C pricetag.
A hardened hotend is around 40 bucks, depending where you live. Enclosures are starting at 50 bucks for acrylic ones, fittet to the P1P. So for half the price (+90 bucks) you’ve got basically all the capabilities of an X1C, except the lidar. That’s not a bad deal at all, especially if you start to print PLA and such at first. In fact i substituted ABS completely trough high temperature PLA, which is great on every machine, especially the P1P 😁👍
I backed the x1c with AMS. I love it, but after 4 months of use. I would go with the P1P. It's 90% of the of the X1C and the features it's missing I wouldn't mind not having.
Only way I personally feel ok messing with print settings like flow ect. is if I am buying a cheaper printer like a ender 3 or cr10 and in my mind that is the trade off. Once the X1 carbon reviews came out my mind was forever changed and I no longer want any printer that does not have the lidar technology unless it's a cheaper printer like mentioned above. So for me I'd rather buy once cry once and get the top of the line printer which honestly is a steal for what it offers.
The P1P is such a good Printer for the price, i love that thing 😁 (PS: they just added a great way for manual flow calibration and a LAN mode, so you can use the wireless connection of the Printer without the cloud 😉👍 PPS: the optional camera supports timelaps if you want to use it, i suggest getting something like a Blink camera, or if you want a print failure /spaghetti control use an octopi with a webcam to watch over printer and to control it)
"they had to cut some corners" while tracking across the missing corner mouldings as compared to the original. Nice work Stefan, nice work. Have they opensourced their lidar system? that is interesting, going to check now.
Highly saturated market, they've got to do something to drive a "wow, need that!" response. What I need to know is will the print quality further close the gap between fdm and resin? I don't need a cooler fdm, I need a bigger quality print producing fdm. Is this it?
Maybe I'm more skeptical than some since I've been using an X1 Carbon for a few years: it's a Lenovo laptop. I'm typing on it right now. It seems odd that their flagship product shares a name with an established product! Otherwise it will be interesting to hear when real production units get into the hands of a large set of regular users.
Thank you for this quick introductory review and I am looking forward to when you can do a proper in-depth review of this machine. Love your in-depth videos, Stefan!
i heard the X1 can print parts more acuratly then the p1p, so parts snap more neatly together, might be relevant for technical parts, I also heard the x1 prints parts so good that they are water leak proof, but that may be true for the p1p as well?
I understand every change they made from the X1C to the P1P...except the lower max temp for the bed heater. Bed heaters are rarely easy to upgrade/replace and with Bambu Labs' largely captive parts environment users are fully at their mercy when it comes to availability and pricing of a higher-end bed heater. If I were to spend $700 on a printer that has a nozzle capable of printing PC, I want a bed that is capable of doing so as well. The parts availability/pricing problem is true for basically everything else on the printer, of course, and that gives me a little pause - despite the surprising success of their Kickstarter and the high ceiling for Bambu Labs as a company, all it takes is a few bad decisions for them to go out of business. If that were to happen, even a best case scenario where Prusa or another company buys up the IP doesn't guarantee that there won't be a ton of $1,500 doorstops out in the world. Bambu Labs will be artificially limiting their sales potential if they stick with a closed system, which is a shame given the exceptional features they've built into their printers. It would also be real nice if they could cut down on the filament wasted by the purge system...I'm approaching the point where I can't imagine doing multi-color or -material printing without independent extruders, given the horrific amount of plastic wasted by purge loops and priming towers. It's not even so much the environmental impact of being unable to use all of that material, I just see a lot of money ending up in the trash (or in a shoebox that you promise to use with a filament recycler, as soon as you have the space and cash to afford one) that doesn't need to be there.
I don't think can completely rule out running fiber infused filaments for an occasional print. While the gears and nozzle aren't hardened they are still steel and won't get chewed up like other printers running brass parts.
We already have the spare harden steel extruder and 3-5 spare HS nozzles that Bambu gave us ($1 gift?). So this will be a perfect farm PLA machine that will output the same products of 3-4 bedslingers.
Its a step under the x1c but people seem forget the x1 exists and is still on preorder as well. Why create a 3rd machine when you cant deliver the first 2
As with all your work, this is a great video; Ii's the best comparison of the two I've seen. I want to start a business (despite being new on the scene) and have been struggling for the last months working on printers 7x more than running them. I love them and like to work on them and learn a ton from them, but I want to print more. I started with inexpensive corexy's and just bought a zero-g that comes close to being a Voron. Though it has been a better experience, it has also kept me busy learning and screwing around more than printing. I was going to rebuild/and upgrade the printers, but I am to the point I am going to sell them all and upgrade to either Vorons or Bambu labs. I saw your short discussion on the melt zone. I am still undecided. I like the idea of no more hassles, but am having trouble with the idea of not being able to quickly and cheaply get parts, or will I be able to fix problems on my own at all? I don't see any videos about problems and how to fix them yet. Any more thoughts? planning a comparison video soon? Will you be at the Ruhr Maker Faire? Greetings from Neustadt Weinstrasse!
Loved the video Stefan and I'd love to get one of these printers but I need to pay the energy bills, feed the family and buy some other important stuff. Bottom-line still way too expensive for me.
The only drawback i see is the multicolor system. I hope they will realise a version with Dual x extruders ( two extruders moving separatly along the x axis). Which will help avoiding all that purge.
One thing I haven't seen is are these machines actually sporting safety ratings for their electronics? At my work place I have 7 Ultimaker S5's that crank out beautiful prints. I get asked about cheaper printers all the time but they just don't offer the safety and reliability we require.
Excellent move. It does not take much effort to slap a few sheets of acrylic on to the sides of this to increase the internal temp. Prusa printers are looking more and more over-priced by the day. Prusa is a greedy profit engine. It's about time they reduced their prices. SPEED is the important thing now that differentiates your product from others and Bambulab's has that in buckets !!
"Prusa is a greedy profit engine" - sounds to me you up to a big thing - let me guess they work together with the reptiliods? Keep up the sharp mind - you are the only hope for the far right.
Greedy profit engine? Dude I don’t think you understand the costs built into manufacturing. Bamboo has a built in edge being so close to suppliers and dirt cheep labor.
What keeps from jumping the gun on either is the noise, as I like to do my work also at night. Is replacing the fans with something quieter a feasable option?
I can see why they did this. The X1C is an amazing machine, but it's too expensive for most people, so they have a hard time establishing a community around their ecosystem. This is accessible for a much broader audience and will hopefully create a vibrant and creative community around their machines. At least that's how I think they imagine how this will play out. In reality I don't see how a tinkerer would buy this over a mk3s. The p1p is a stripped down version of a machine that was designed from the ground up to be as low maintenance as possible. Just because they remove the side panels and all the qol improvements doesn't mean it lends itself to playing around with it. It really doesn't look like it wants to be taken apart at all. If I were in bambu lab's shoes I'd probably do the same thing, they have very little to lose with this machine because it didn't take any upfront investment from them that they need to recoup, but I don't think it'll steal a lot of market share from prusa.
Heres a thought though. How many tinkerers actually exist vs people who want to make things with their printers? I dont think the majority of people tinker with printers because they want to. They do so because their printers suck out of the box. This is a printer that does not suck out of the box, and I think thats valuable to far more printer buyers than tinkerability. Otherwise Vorons would be a lot more popular than they are.
@@bomas_ulz It doesnt break, and matches most 1kg spools. Limitations dont mean you must tinker with it. You can absolutely criticize those limitations, but that still doesnt mean it doesnt function as intended.
❤ you hit my question X1 or P1P when I clicking on buy button. thanks for help… i choose X1 🙏 I would like know more about missing p1p calibration. is there in for example in manual matter?😅
I kickstarted the X1C+AMS and love it. I have since got an Ender-3 S1 Plus and an Ender-5 S1. I ended up upgrading the S1 Plus to a Sonic Pad just to make it usable. what's the point of large prints if they take 7+ days? The 5 S1 is decent but comparing it to the P1P on price and features I never would have got it if I knew the P1P was coming out. I don't want to be proud of my printer. I want to be proud of what comes out of it and I can get great prints with almost no work out of the X1C. Starting my own little print farm I ended up pre-ordering 2 P1Ps because I want something that can just crank out PLA prints 24/7 without worrying about if I need to upgrade to the latest Klipper or whether I should swap out for that fancy new extruder I just heard about. All that stuff is great and if you want to build a printer and learn how it all works and tinker away, awesome, build a Voron. I just want to design and print stuff so Bambu Labs it is.
X1 Carbon, P1P or neither of them?
The X1C+ with larger build volume.
Carbon X1 Easily
Both
@@MetalheadAndNerd definitely... How they work through the rigidity problems Voron had to deal with going 350 build is gonna bring the cost way up or speed down. Dunno which
Build a Voron.
I'll eventually buy an X1C. I know a lot of people like to tinker with their 3d printers, but I don't. I use mine as a tool to make parts to tinker with or build other things, but I don't want to have to tinker with the printer. Having something that simply works and allows me to continue design work without having to stop and tune or monitor print progress would be a huge QoL improvement and also increase my productivity.
Exactly the same as I don't feel like tinkering with my laser printer when printing excell documents. A 3D printer should be properly calibrated to print at it's best out of the box.
That was THE reason for me to back the x1c, too.
@@dingdingdingdiiiiing your laser printer isn't a 3-axis CNC machine. If you want to make precision parts you need to setup the machine, that's just life. Even a $$$$$$ industrial CNC machine requires the operator to do calibration after delivery, or they'll send a technician to do it, because it has to be done on location after the machine has been put where it's going to be used. Don't tell me you've never owned or used a printer that left faint horizontal lines around the text, or random black speckles; at least on a 3d printer you have the capability of fixing it yourself instead of either chucking it or just living with the flaws like a dpcument printer.
@@tissuepaper9962 but it would be nice if that CNC didn't NEED to be setup by you or a technician and self-calibrated.... if 3d printers can get there, like the X1C then that's exactly what people really want. this is what made prusa good too. out of the box no tinker printing. i don't want to tinker with the printer either... i can and have but i rather not waste my time on it outside of swapping filament and removing the prints from the bed.
@@digibluh you can do automatic bed leveling with a cheap bolt-on touch probe and a firmware update, you don't need a $1200 Lidar-enabled printer to get a good first layer automatically. Squaring the axes is literally not possible to do automatically if you want the resulting mechanism to be small and stiff enough to be used for 3d printing, they're doing that at the factory and that level of precision can't survive shipping. There is a very good reason that industrial CNC machines don't automatically tram themselves; a real human being with an analog dial indicator does a better job.
An Ender3 is made entirely out of standard parts, it's the easiest thing in the world to repair or upgrade. The X1C is mostly custom parts, that alone completely nullifies the convenience factor because it's only convenient until you need to repair it and the only place to buy a part is bambulabs. Why not use a service like shapeways if all you're worried about is getting the part at the end? You're buying the MacBook of 3d printers, an unrepairable product-as-a-service that sells itself on the premise that it "just works".
First! No, ooops, too late. Great video! (Also without considering the boundary conditions you had)
As an X1C owner, seeing this being wider available at a lower cost is excellent. The X1C is a beast and I expect the P1P will do well.
did you purchase some sort of kickstarter version? when i looked on their website 2 weeks ago it still was on pre-order
@@TheBPJo you can just purchase the pre-orer types. there is probably few containers on their way to the local warehouses. i got my printer exactly as promised, 2 months later after ordering the pre-order from their site!
@@TheBPJo i got mine a month ago with preorder i orderd in august.
@@TheBPJo yup, I was a kickstarter. Have had mine for a while now. Great machine and the AMS is excellent as well.
I've been looking for a P1P vs X1 for a week now. Thanks for this extremely useful review.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you sooo much for holding these companies accountable in relation to the open source spirit!
Agreed
Only due to the Open Source spirit of Prusa, DUET, VORON and many others have we come to the point where we are today. If we want to continue seeing innovation, everyone needs to contribute who built on that work. A monopole doesn't help anyone long term and will kill innovation efforts if there isn't any competition anymore. This is what people and especially customers need to understand and I hope Bambulab will add their fair share!
@@CNCKitchen Do you know if they patented their lidar system?
agreed, when corporations stand on the shoulders of FOSS giants, it's important for them to give back, even if it's not strictly required.
You don't buy, that is how you hold them accountable.
The fact that it's still able to use the multicolor printing upgrade makes it a winner for me.
Faster printing without making errors is also a win.
Still not in my budget until I do more work, but it's on my list for the future.
_I also want to get a resin printer for the more detailed/precision parts._
_I have a FLSun SR with a rebuilt hot end(because the default nozzles and break just didn't work)_
I've been a MK3s owner for many years, and after upgrading it to the Revo ecosystem recently, it's still an extremely versatile and functional machine. I wasn't sold on the X1C until after they fulfilled their KS orders. Then I put in a preorder, and much to my surprise, the printer showed up at my door only a few days later. Having owned it for a week, I'll say that the hype is mostly justified, it does a lot of amazing things well. But there is one issue I should highlight: we've all been sold on the 17 min benchy, but you can't quite access that speed normally. Yes, that was the first print I did. And yes, my X1C really did indeed print a 17 min benchy with my own generic PLA filament. And yes, I just took it out of the box, hooked everything up, did the first boot calibration, fed in some filament, and it successfully printed that 17 min benchy. Truely as turnkey of a solution as I've ever seen. I never had to do any bed leveling or z-offset setting! Anyway, back to my peeve. So clearly the benchy shows me that yes, in fact the printer on my desk, using my filament is able to print about 5x faster than my MK3s. However, if I go into Bambuslicer, and slice the benchy, no matter what slicer tricks I try, I cannot get it lower than about 45 min. Which is still very fast, but it is not 17 min fast. For comparison, on my profile in Prusaslicer, the benchy is about 90 min. So 45 min is about 2x faster, but that's far from 5x. Sure I can turn on ludicrous mode, but even then I don't think it'll get to 17 min. I don't see any profile in Bambuslicer that says "ridiculous fast speedboat mode". Anyway, my point is, we were sold on the 17 min benchy, which it CAN do, but for some reason, as a X1C user, I am unable to access those speeds from Bambuslicer. That's a little bit annoying.
EDIT: it was pointed out the main difference between the 17 min benchy and my Generic PLA slice result in BambuSlicer is the max volumetric flow and max fan layer time setting. I can confirm that adjusting these to match the Bambu Basic PLA, and then using Ludicrous mode does in fact result in a 17 min benchy. Kudos to all those who helped with their tips!
That demo benchy was hand-sliced. Somebody at BL spent a lot of time tuning the slice layer by layer and probably even section by section to get the most possible speed out of it. Slicing software isn't capable of that level of precision and self-tweaking (yet). Yeah, it's disappointing if you thought that everything would print that fast, but that's marketing for you.
Swap it in the slicer from generic pla to bambu pla and it will be 17 mim bench again. Or abs and crank the speeds up. So far I'm stuck on a 12 min abs bench that's reasonable but I want a sub 10 min
Its the volumetric flow, set it to 22mm/sec or higher in the slicer.
as of now, mk3s or bambu labs?
@@mortalwombat5811 This sounds like nonsense. No way someone manually sliced it. More logically they probably shot up the accels and flow rates, which you can do in the slicer. Heck Ill do it right now and comment back on my success.
@Stefan they did give back to the open source community. Even Prusa noted it. They provided multiple build plate slicing/jobs and STEP support both of which Prusa is borrowing. Just like everyone adopted Arachne from Cura. Bambu is showing they are here to help the community as whole so far, let’s just hope they continue.
It's not like they made a pull request to Prusa Slicer though - the Prusa team picked it up themselves from the open sourced code. Nothing wrong with that, but it hardly counts as active involvement in the open source community.
That said, the accusation that Bambu Lab had ever violated license terms (now repeated by both Tom Sanladerer and CNC Kitchen) is wrong AFAIK and stems only from a complaint tweeted by Jo Prusa, back _before_ Bambu Lab was even distributing the slicer to customers.
@@henninghoefer doesn’t matter. They were distributing it to at least reviewers. And the GPL is quite strickt there.
You can basically do nothing unless you release the source. Even for internal tools or anything.
@@henninghoefer so what?
@@nukularpictures That's not correct, internal tools do not need their source to be released even if they use GPL components. And the source is not required to be publicly available either, it can be provided upon request. I don't know if anyone requested it and was denied, but it's now on GitHub, which seems perfectly reasonable.
@@gjsmo What you most likely mean by internal tools is "private software" and that is not what bamboo did. See the comment from nukularpictures.
"Internal tools" could mean a lot of course, but it is clear if there is code used directly or indirectly shipped to or used another legal entity it is not covered by private use. I am honestly a little bit surprised people even argue on that.
Of course most likely Bamboo did not do it on purpose and most likely it was just a small mistake that can happen - fair. But what Thomas and Stefan claims is simply true in this regard is definitely true and Bamboo them self even acknowledged IMHO, because otherwise they would not just have corrected the mistake without claiming they did it out of good will.
I have the X1C (couple of them) and I like the idea of the P1P if it works about the same as the X1C - as far as fixing things on it, it is still unscrew and replace like most of the other machines on the market. I run my printers for my business so the less I have to tinker on my farm machines the better. I just keep extra parts on hand like I do with all of my printers. I'm in the process of building a pellet machine that will use the chopped up waste from the X1C to print large scale prints that will be painted. I would like a X1C with a build volume of at least 400x400 with speed close to what it is currently
A friend recently got the X1C. I saw it in action firsthand and was blown away. Having been using Creality machines for the past 1.75 years, these things blow them clean out of the water. So much that I will be ordering a P1P this week myself. While I really want an X1C, the P1P will be ideal for what I need it for and the money it will make will pay for the X1C even faster. The speed at which I can knock out projects is worth its weight in gold.
I'd love to know what effect removing the lidar has on print quality. If it's not there to help ensuring a great first layer, but the P1P is intended to print at the same high speeds, will print quality reduce or have higher chances of failing?
Well, this "just" means that you need to tune pressure advance manually and need to make sure that flow is set right. Other than that the LIDAR doesn't help and only adds weight to the toolhead.
@@CNCKitchen they should sell the lidar module itself, setting flow and PA manually every time u change filament type can be annoying.
@@CNCKitchen Could you please share how manual pressure advance calibration works on bambu environment? Is it possible to change coefficient on their slicer?
@@mrjoelpt Well, they made the decision to not offer it as an option. Virtually all other differences (except the heated bed) can be purchased rather reasonably if you REALLY want the Camera for example. Side panels have been released for free printing, hardened nozzle, Enclosure fan, etc. are also available. You can even buy the glass door and top panel for around $50 USD if you REALLY want then! All the prices are MORE than reasonable. As far as the LIDAR - several people have discussed this in other YT Vids and virtually everyone agrees the LIDAR is not as big a deal as it is made out to be. Nice but not really necessary. The huge number of major features are still there on the P1P, for this price it's a killer.
Important to note that Bambu have confirmed that the Micro LiDAR calibration on the X1 series *is not* currently doing flow calibration (despite the name), it's *just* doing PA/LA calibration.
Can you elaborate on what that means, for newcomers? thanks
@@engineeringdisillusion pa/la means linear/pressure advance. They do the same thing just on Kliper/Marlin. The aim is to remove over/under extrusion at the start/end by gauging the width of the extrusion. They do nothing in the middle, nor the height.
If the LIDAR worked as promised it would do complete flow monitoring/adjustment the entire time, as it can measure the width and height of the extrusion in real time.
As an Ender 3 Pro owner I have been very impressed with what I got for such a low price, I upgraded to a silent motherboard-essential IMHO. If I were to upgrade I’d want an enclosed bed and a bigger print area. I do print functional parts within the limitations of PLA but the fibre reinforced filaments look very tempting. So to sum up I’d buy the higher spec machine.
Dude I will never not use tmc2208 drivers again. pretty amazing that $60 can completely change how an ender 3 feels. Being able to use it a few feet away from me without even noticing it was a game changer
@@mhgscrubadub9917 I did the same for the Tevo Tornado and music to my ears!
excellent video 👏
you highlighted very well the differences between the two!
I think Bambu Labs have done themselves proud with the three machines - people like myself can get the speed advantage at a rock bottom price, anyone that needs a plug and play appliance for their home or office can have that, and the middle ground is also still covered. Thanks Stefan for the really good look at this printer. And now I have to start a new penny jar...
Yeah, give em a year until you have an expensive paperweight.
@@8BitLife69 a solid year later and they released a couple new banger products and is still supporting the x1c, p1p, p1s.
Hey there! If I don't care about the budget, but I only print PLA and want the best reliability, which printer of these two should I choose?
Is the X1C better for purely PLA printing still?
Thanks for any help
The stripped down model is nice however I’m more sold on the X1C. That really looks like a fully featured ready to go machine.
I would love to know about how effective the automatic pressure advance calibration of the X1C is. Its this printers biggest innovation but I actually haven't seen comparative tests, and have no idea how the memory for filaments work etc and i have one. It seems like the sort of thing that requires the type of testing I dont have the time or variety of filaments to test.
I ordered a P1P yesterday. I could have easily afforded the X1C, but I actually prefer the P1P. I've already ordered custom cut polycarbonate, and am printing the parts in ABS for the vision enclosure. Beautiful magnetic panels easily removed when needed. The lidar is a gimmick, and doesn't even work on the build plates I will use. Couldn't care less about a touch screen, and the silver cover would be the first thing I would remove. I can't stand working in a cave, and I WILL be modding this thing. Also the extruder gears, and other mods are very reasonably priced, but I will be putting in my own LED lights, and camera system, thank you very much. Really looking forward to it.
Personally I don't care about losing the enclosure, the high temp bed or nozzle but losing the camera and some of those other first layer perfecting features probably makes it a pass for me. At that point it's not much different than my prusa just a lot faster.
If I was going to buy a new printer I'd splurge for the carbon
Of course you don't care. You must be only printing decorative things in PLA.
@@alejandroperez5368 You must be new to the 3d printing community - so far you were more into communitys where it is normal to answer reasonable points with personal slurs.
@@zebarzebra nope, I've had the Ender 3 for years. Your comment only makes sense if you're printing only with PLA and PETG. But zero ABS or ASA parts ;)
@@alejandroperez5368 As an Ender 3 owner who seems to think highly of themselves I would have expected you to be aware that none of those features are required to print functional parts, partly because there are ways to get printers to print ASA/ABS without a built in enclosure (eg using an external enclosure as many Ender 3 owners do), and partly because PETG and PLA are perfectly serviceable as structural parts if used appropriately.
It does have a high temp nozzle, just not a hardened steel one.
I will buy the X1 Carbon because i want a reliable Printer.
working on printers is fun but if i need something it should work, because thats why you have a 3d printer
I think they are making the right moves and really pushing the bounds of the 3d printing market. I am probably going to go with the Carbon X1 because of my desire to print carbon filaments, but what a great option for those who are only using pla and the like. Very smart move. Now the one con, give us a usbc or an either-net port on the printers as an option to cloud printing ! I want to be able to use my machine locally and not have to use wifi (cloud), then these will be perfect as far as I'm concerned.
That is my biggest gripe, no way to hard wire to my computer. I hope they are reading the comments, as I'm really close to buying one or both of these machines. Cheers.
Purchased a P1P this week. Ready to give it a try after 2 Creality CR6SE machines, one a backer. The P1P is the Boxster to the GT2.
Oh goodness, Stefan, I just ordered a P1P and now I'm second-guessing myself. I'm brand new at 3D printing and I was about to order the X1C but the lesser was announced. I hope I didn't make a mistake in cutting back!
Thank you for the honest review,
Stefani
They’re both the easiest to use machines and fastest (out of the box) on the market currently, so don’t worry too much.
@@morbus5726 and they'll break down in 2 weeks 🤣🤣
You'll be happy with the P1P as well, especially as a beginner. Hotend and extruder can be upgraded to hardened steel if you ever want to print re-inforced materials.
@CNC Kitchen Thank you for the reassurance and I'm glad to know that I can upgrade those items. I originally was planning on adding a few upgrades when I ordered but the black Friday order didn't allow me to add to the order. I wanted another color filament but I didn't know enough about what I could use with this machine...yes, I'm that new to this 😳
@@Fejszi have you had a bad experience with your x1c? Mine works lika beast 8 weeks in, printing almost non stop, haven't had any issues yet 🙂
Hands down I'd go with the P1P, and customize as needed vs paying for all the factory upgrades. Although, I don't own either as I'm waiting to see what kind of reputation they build, their reliability, customer service and contributions to the community.
the lidar is one of the things you can't upgrade to on the P1P, if that's relevant to you. presumably some of the cost savings is in the processor.
doing your own upgrades will be more costly and janky
I'm more of a maker, than a tinkered. I also like the higher temperature materials that are available on the X1C out of the box. For MY needs, the X1C is my choice... I'm already saving for a second one.
That said, the P1P should have no problems filling in the niche that it is targeted at and has the potential to stretch a fair amount outside of that. If I was still more of a tinkerer, I would have jumped on the P1P in a heartbeat. I seriously considered buying a pre-order but after sleeping on it for a bit, decided that it was better to wait until I can get a 2nd X1C.
Hey CNC Kitchen I just subscribed, love your channel, how high quality it is and how much detail you include when testing different materials or reviewing 3D printers. DON'T EVER STOP!!! 😁👊👌👍
I got both the MK3 and the X1C. Not gonna lie, the later opens way more possibilities.
But I’m way more scared to break it. Because you can’t « break » a Prusa. Unless the whole machine catches fire, you can always dismantle it, reprint, and re-fasten the parts.
The Bambu ? Not so much ; I can’t even remove the back panel
Nah, I've seen multiple people permanently ruin their Prusas.
@@louisvaught2495 Press X for doubt.
@@LilApe Open bearing rails means it's relatively simple to get debris on them that permanently ruin the mechanism.
Relatively though, it's a rare failure case but means you have to strip and replace one (or both) bearing rails, and sometimes the plastic parts have to be re-printed as well.
It's a PITA to diagnose and fixing it requires a full rebuild.
@@louisvaught2495 How it’s permanently ruined if you can replaced busted parts and rebuild? 🤔
It's true that you can repair a Prusa, and the benefit of that can't be overstated. However, I think comparing it with a Prusa MK3 is the wrong comparison. The MK3 is 5-6 year old technology. Somehow Prusa continues to sell them for $1100, but in reality the MK3 should be a $300 printer (see the Sovol SV-06 - better than then MK3 in almost every way, now selling for $229). A better comparison would be the X1C vs. a Voron Trident. The Voron is also open source and can be repaired and easily modded. Both the Voron and the X1C are designed to print materials that require an enclosure. Parts on my Mk3 started failing rapidly (Z motor developed bad bearing, Z probe failed, extruder probe mount drooped) when I enclosed it. Both the Voron and the X1C can hit accelerations and speeds that the MK3 just can not reach. Even after "upgrading" my printer with a Bear frame, a Y axis linear rail mod, and Klipper with Input Shaper enabled, I can't get remotely close to the same speed as the X1C or Voron. Plus it is an uphill battle to add mods to a Prusa that are either simple to add to a Voron or come built in on the Bambu Labs (an accelerometer, for example). So yes, you can maintain and even mod an MK3, but the amount of time and money you put into that, the limited improvements you will get, and the over-priced nature of the base printer make it a poor choice in 2022. I was hoping that Prusa could turn it around with the XL, but with the delays in shipping and the introduction of the X1C at almost half the price, I am starting to have doubts.
Great video Stefan!
Looking forward to the future of 3D printing!
As an X1C owner there are some motion processing issues. Many people reporting vertical lines on outer faces. Not ringing. It’s a bug which no one on TH-cam seems to mention. As long as it gets fixed then id recommend the printer but until it does it’s not great when printing slower for quality.
Thx dood. I’ve not seen any other channel mention the bushings on the lead screws for the P1P. Other tiny changes like a weaker tool head cable incompatible with cable chain (which was also removed) show how the P1P is not just stripped down but actually more economically built (lower quality).
Not complaining, it’s just worth mentioning so thanks for that!! (-8
The main question I have is: if you enclose it with side panels, will you be able to print ABS and Nylon at least?
Cost summary
Description Price
Subtotal 659,00 €
Shipping (Germany) 9,00 €
Estimated taxes 126,92 €
Total EUR 794,92 €
Should also be mentioned at least once in the video, $699 is not the final price, practically nobody pays $699!
Important for Europeans, as we are used to seeing posted prices as final prices, i.e. tax included and not everyone immediately thinks as "American"...
822€ here in Italy. That was a pain, i've decided to wait for a well tuned version of the P1P, prolly around march 2023 or hoping that x1c will require a lower price...(actually around 1650€ in pre-order)
How are they supposed to show a "final price" including taxes in their advertisements when they sell internationally? Tax rates vary by country, are they supposed to list 186 different prices?
@@Hagop64 dear friend, everyone do it without crying, prusa does it also and I'm not their fan, i run on an Artillery actually
and it's Not in the advertisement we Are talking about their site also, logging in with a personal account
X1C backer here and love the machine. And since for me 3D printing is more of a tool supporting my other hobbies than a hobby in and of it self, it suits me better than the p1p and my previous printers (Anycubic, Solidoodle…). But I’m happy they released it nevertheless-great for 3D printing enthusiasts and helps ensure bambulab‘s future both in general as well as in the more lowcost, hobbyist market! So what’s not to like about that?
I use the p1p for some weeks now, and i needed nothing to calibrate or change. Send a print to it, wait, done. For half the price it’s just amazing. And if i ever want to print abrasive stuff i get the hardened nozzle and one of the already available 3rd party enclosures (starting at around 50 bucks for an acrylic one) and have basically the same machine, except the lidar. For me the P1P canibalized the X1C, because that’s the one i originally planed to get 😁😉
I bought the X1C because I wanted a printer that I didn't have to fiddle with to make work - I wanted something that I could just hit "go" on and walk away. Bambu has delivered on that. I also wanted to easily print ABS, and the X1C does that, too.
Something I didn't expect but am very pleased by is the way the X1C is super-accurate if you slow it down a little; I can run it at about half its default speeds, still be almost 50% faster than my Ender 5, and be *amazingly* mechanically accurate.
Is the P1P the same motion system? If it is, it seems like it would be a good choice for a first printer - for those of us who want a 3d printer to make our imaginations take physical form, rather than as a building project, anyway.
At some point (when I have more money) I'd like to get a very accurate, easy-to-use printer, put a 0.2mm nozzle on it, and be able to print really detailed things without having to deal with the toxicity of resin. A Voron 0 would be a good choice for that, but I'm not interested in building a printer, so - with the X1 being a similar out-of-pocket cost - I was leaning towards getting a second X1. Now that the P1P is available, it's moved up to the top of my "probably this one" list.
Im waiting on my X1 carbon, glad to see a more afordable version that more people can actually buy, Great video as always
Feel like it’s missing a lot without the LiDAR/filament calibration. Biggest advantage to me is ease of use and no calibration on my end, I load my print and have very little to calibrate/slice
The ingenuity of this product goes FAR beyond cost cutting. By releasing a machine at this price point they are inviting tinkerers/hackers//makers to improve their product.
A) Low hanging fruit is the side panels.
Besides printing custom designs, people will be exploring different materials similar to CONSTRUCT3D like Bamboo or GR10. The open frame also begs for a door and a top similar to the X1.
B) Next level is camera, lights, and fan. Yes, they will gladly sell you those options. But the more adventurous will likely develop their own custom solutions. Can users develop a quieter, cheaper alternative to that noisy fan everyone complains about? Can we implement our own imaging system with better resolution? What's the best arrangement for LED lighting?
C) Can the existing hardware be improved? Extruder, Hot End, Nozzle mods. How long before we see Revo, Phaetus XG, Bondtech, Orbiter "hacks"?
D) Finally, the teardowns and experiments with electronics and software. Can ANY of the electronic hardware be "hacked"? What is in the new display - Is it an ESP32 S3 like the LilyGo T-Embed? Is BambuBus just a trademarked implementation of CAN Bus?
How many individuals really just want to see if they can use this for their next Voron/RatRig/VZbot/Hevort project?
Ever since the X1 was announced, people have been clamoring - "Does it run Klipper?" "Can I put Klipper on it?"
What does Bambu Lab gain from this?
A) FREE publicity for the next 6+ months. And not just a name drop. Every Video/Blog entry/Social media post will literally be encouraging new customers to join the fray and make this product the machine you always wanted. At the reduced price, you can't afford NOT to buy one and play around. If you own a print farm, you need half a dozen.
B) A community of developers and beta testers. Exploring improvements from a world of different perspectives. Finding out not just what customers are looking for but free "open-source" implementations.
I'm NOT saying that any of this is bad. Ultimately we will have to see how they truly treat the community.
In fact, DISCLAIMER: I already ordered mine in expectation of investigating a lot of what I outline above.
But I'm hoping this works out favorably for ALL.
"A rising tide raises ALL boats" (or Benchies!)
Duh, I forgot to mention upgrading the build plate heater and LIDAR/Spaghetti Detection.
After 18months of upgrades on my ender3, ( glass bed - BL touch - microswiss DD - PI with octopirnt then to kilpper) I now trust my self with a quality 3d printer just went and per ordered 1 of these bad boys
As someone new to 3D printing, I am happy this printer is at a lower price point. I already pre-ordered mine and I really hope they start shipping before the new year - but that is just me being incredibly excited. ;)
Invest in ear-plugs for you and everyone in your home.
@@RajinderYadav Why? I have it and it's not that bad. We have it in a back bedroom and we don't even hear it really outside of that bedroom. =P
Hallo Stephan, can you tell us something about the noise during printing, comparing the MK3, X1 and this new one respectively?
Did you watch the whole video, because I talk about it?
P1P is the loudest, X1 is a bit quieter when you close the door and the MK3 is levels more pleasant to work next to.
@@CNCKitchen I did but must have missed that part. Did an extra search with the chapters as well. My bad. Thank you for the answer, have a nice day!
Already pre order p1p, but same week I bought sovol 04 idex and the flv400.
Let's see what shakes out.
IMHO there are several demographics 3D printers address. First is the experimenter who wan'ts to make everything from scratch and tweak it to their hearts desire. Then there's the person who isn't using a printer for professional work but want's an affordable but serious printer as a hobbyist or for schools. Then we have the maker community that really can't be narrowed down since it involves every desire. Finally we have print farms and high end commercial operations who need reliability and productivity. Some making trinkets to others making aerospace and automotive parts. Not everyone who wants a high end machine intends to use it as a business and not everyone who has a print farm needs an ultra high end machine. Thanks for your videos. I'm learning a lot from the technology that is reaching new levels of sophistication without having to spend your children's college money to purchase or have maddening fiddling to keep running. Gott segne und danke.
I'd love one of these. As much as I've tinkered with my Ender 3 Pro, upgrading this or that piece on it, at the end of the day it would be nice to just have a printer that works out of the box and at a decent speed.
Howdy Stefan. Ubiratã from Brasilia, Brazil here.
I have to say: I think the Bambulab P1P looks like an awesome product. Even though it lacks some of the outstanding features of the x1 carbon (like the lidar and automatic pressure advance and flow adjustment) it costs 500 USD less! That’s quite q lot of money!
Although it does not have side panels (which can be used easily custom made locally using policarbonate panels for example) it can still be used for some filaments like ABS (specially for parts not so big) due to its ludicrous speed. Depending on the kind of parts being printed there simply won’t be enough time for them to warp significantly. Still, as I mentioned, nothing keeps the user from getting locally made panels (cutting their own) so the printer can be properly isolated from air drafts.
It’s still a ridiculously fast printer (might even not be as fast as a Voron but enough for the majority of users) that manages to become readymade for (way) less money and work it would take to build a Voron 2.4 250x250x250. (Voron users might want my head for this remark LOL but the fact is that the majority of 3D Print users simple does not have the knowledge or even the will to go to the assembly process, even though a well built Voron is a hell of a printer).
Abrasive materials? I think it would be only a matter of ordering the hardened steel nozzle from Bambulabs itself.
My only personal problem with Bambulabs is that Brazil is not on their availability list. It it was , I’d be already on the pre-order for the P1P (or better, might have already sold a kidney for the x1 Carbon, LOL).
BTW, one thing I didn’t know that I found out through this specific video is that the AMS doesn’t need to be mounted on top of the printer, it can be mounted on the side (I didn’t know that until now). That’s perfect for me, as the Bambulabs printers (without the AMS on top) are a perfect fit (with a little slack for the moving parts) into my workspace (anything taller just won’t fit).
I hope Brazil becomes an availability for you! BTW - Bambu has released printable side panels (even in several patterns!), and the glass top and door are on their orderable parts page!
Cheers from the US.
I'm mostly looking forward to the bigger bambu lab 3D printer, hoping they would release one!
I would rather buy a machine with the X1 Carbon features but with a minimum of a 500mm x 500mm x 500mm build volume.
the v core 3 can do that, but its a kit, and requires tuning. It does perform better, and can print faster, but definitely isn't beginner friendly.
Was thinking about updgrading my ender 3 printer and the p1p seems like a great option. Only drawback for me is the noise level because I have the printer in my room.
I would have preferred if they increased the price a little bit and kept the hardened extruder gears and nozzle.
If I were to get something like this it would be for material option expansion, so I'd want to go with the X1C. I see the P1P as a goodove for the company though since there are probably lots of people who would want what it provides without having to pay the X1C pricetag.
A hardened hotend is around 40 bucks, depending where you live. Enclosures are starting at 50 bucks for acrylic ones, fittet to the P1P. So for half the price (+90 bucks) you’ve got basically all the capabilities of an X1C, except the lidar. That’s not a bad deal at all, especially if you start to print PLA and such at first. In fact i substituted ABS completely trough high temperature PLA, which is great on every machine, especially the P1P 😁👍
I backed the x1c with AMS. I love it, but after 4 months of use. I would go with the P1P. It's 90% of the of the X1C and the features it's missing I wouldn't mind not having.
Ended up getting the P1P, printing the armor for it now on my other printers. Shipping says 5 days in USA.
Only way I personally feel ok messing with print settings like flow ect. is if I am buying a cheaper printer like a ender 3 or cr10 and in my mind that is the trade off. Once the X1 carbon reviews came out my mind was forever changed and I no longer want any printer that does not have the lidar technology unless it's a cheaper printer like mentioned above. So for me I'd rather buy once cry once and get the top of the line printer which honestly is a steal for what it offers.
The P1P is such a good Printer for the price, i love that thing 😁 (PS: they just added a great way for manual flow calibration and a LAN mode, so you can use the wireless connection of the Printer without the cloud 😉👍 PPS: the optional camera supports timelaps if you want to use it, i suggest getting something like a Blink camera, or if you want a print failure /spaghetti control use an octopi with a webcam to watch over printer and to control it)
"they had to cut some corners" while tracking across the missing corner mouldings as compared to the original. Nice work Stefan, nice work. Have they opensourced their lidar system? that is interesting, going to check now.
AFAIK they haven't - unfortunately. Maybe we see mor nozzlecams in the future that are able to do the same things.
P1P + aux fan + hardened steel components. I'll close it myself with windshield sunshade multilayer material on a 3d printed minimal frame
Highly saturated market, they've got to do something to drive a "wow, need that!" response. What I need to know is will the print quality further close the gap between fdm and resin? I don't need a cooler fdm, I need a bigger quality print producing fdm. Is this it?
do you think both of these mashines can print Pc ore abs ore carbon?
It's never early for innovation. 100% will consider it as my main 3D printer.
Hey really helpful video, as I'm finally looking at buying my first one but I just want a cheapie!
Have a great Sunday!
I love that ‘Spaghetti Detection’ is a technical term now
Maybe I'm more skeptical than some since I've been using an X1 Carbon for a few years: it's a Lenovo laptop. I'm typing on it right now. It seems odd that their flagship product shares a name with an established product!
Otherwise it will be interesting to hear when real production units get into the hands of a large set of regular users.
9:12 that print looks so good
After a couple of months of P1P and it's awesome, the LAN only mode works well and should get better. Only regret is not getting the X1C.
i can`t be the only one wanting to print his own shoes after this video...
amazing printer, finally some meaningful innovation. I preordered x1c as I want to support them.
Thank you for this quick introductory review and I am looking forward to when you can do a proper in-depth review of this machine. Love your in-depth videos, Stefan!
Thanks, great you enjoyed it.
The P1P looks awesome! All these new innovations will encourage other companies to improve
especially Prusa
i heard the X1 can print parts more acuratly then the p1p, so parts snap more neatly together, might be relevant for technical parts, I also heard the x1 prints parts so good that they are water leak proof, but that may be true for the p1p as well?
Awesome initial review. The question is can you upgrade to a higher temp nozzle?
The nozzle is already high temp, I think the max temp is 300c, though you will need to upgrade to hardened steel for abrasives.
I understand every change they made from the X1C to the P1P...except the lower max temp for the bed heater. Bed heaters are rarely easy to upgrade/replace and with Bambu Labs' largely captive parts environment users are fully at their mercy when it comes to availability and pricing of a higher-end bed heater. If I were to spend $700 on a printer that has a nozzle capable of printing PC, I want a bed that is capable of doing so as well.
The parts availability/pricing problem is true for basically everything else on the printer, of course, and that gives me a little pause - despite the surprising success of their Kickstarter and the high ceiling for Bambu Labs as a company, all it takes is a few bad decisions for them to go out of business. If that were to happen, even a best case scenario where Prusa or another company buys up the IP doesn't guarantee that there won't be a ton of $1,500 doorstops out in the world. Bambu Labs will be artificially limiting their sales potential if they stick with a closed system, which is a shame given the exceptional features they've built into their printers.
It would also be real nice if they could cut down on the filament wasted by the purge system...I'm approaching the point where I can't imagine doing multi-color or -material printing without independent extruders, given the horrific amount of plastic wasted by purge loops and priming towers. It's not even so much the environmental impact of being unable to use all of that material, I just see a lot of money ending up in the trash (or in a shoebox that you promise to use with a filament recycler, as soon as you have the space and cash to afford one) that doesn't need to be there.
Good news, I think bambulab is really a game changer. I think a lot of company will suffer even big one like prusa.
I don't think can completely rule out running fiber infused filaments for an occasional print. While the gears and nozzle aren't hardened they are still steel and won't get chewed up like other printers running brass parts.
We already have the spare harden steel extruder and 3-5 spare HS nozzles that Bambu gave us ($1 gift?). So this will be a perfect farm PLA machine that will output the same products of 3-4 bedslingers.
Its a step under the x1c but people seem forget the x1 exists and is still on preorder as well. Why create a 3rd machine when you cant deliver the first 2
wow, so many flowers given by Stefan at this point ...
As with all your work, this is a great video; Ii's the best comparison of the two I've seen. I want to start a business (despite being new on the scene) and have been struggling for the last months working on printers 7x more than running them. I love them and like to work on them and learn a ton from them, but I want to print more. I started with inexpensive corexy's and just bought a zero-g that comes close to being a Voron. Though it has been a better experience, it has also kept me busy learning and screwing around more than printing.
I was going to rebuild/and upgrade the printers, but I am to the point I am going to sell them all and upgrade to either Vorons or Bambu labs. I saw your short discussion on the melt zone. I am still undecided. I like the idea of no more hassles, but am having trouble with the idea of not being able to quickly and cheaply get parts, or will I be able to fix problems on my own at all? I don't see any videos about problems and how to fix them yet.
Any more thoughts?
planning a comparison video soon?
Will you be at the Ruhr Maker Faire?
Greetings from Neustadt Weinstrasse!
Loved the video Stefan and I'd love to get one of these printers but I need to pay the energy bills, feed the family and buy some other important stuff. Bottom-line still way too expensive for me.
Would this be a good first 3d printer?
It is better than any other printer on the market now.
you could print different colored panels to customize it
One of the few videos where people actually skip to the ad
very good video, it helped me decide on the x1 carbon. Seems like a very reasonable entry point for firearm accessories
I want a über silent X1 Carbon even if the prints take longer and would like the poop hole to be in the front or the side.
The only drawback i see is the multicolor system. I hope they will realise a version with
Dual x extruders ( two extruders moving separatly along the x axis). Which will help avoiding all that purge.
fantastic video! Love the detail comparison. Might just have to get one of the P1P myself!
I‘ve this printer in my watchlist since the first time I heard about it - I definitely gonna get the p1p
Is the LiDAR sensor really needed? Or is it good without it? I hope I can upgrade the control panel to the touchscreen.
As he said, all the other printers works fine, even without lidar.
One thing I haven't seen is are these machines actually sporting safety ratings for their electronics? At my work place I have 7 Ultimaker S5's that crank out beautiful prints. I get asked about cheaper printers all the time but they just don't offer the safety and reliability we require.
What safety are you looking for?
How is the removable plate? Odd it as good as the Prusa plates? Thanks for the review, did a great job!
Excellent move. It does not take much effort to slap a few sheets of acrylic on to the sides of this to increase the internal temp. Prusa printers are looking more and more over-priced by the day. Prusa is a greedy profit engine. It's about time they reduced their prices. SPEED is the important thing now that differentiates your product from others and Bambulab's has that in buckets !!
"Prusa is a greedy profit engine" - sounds to me you up to a big thing - let me guess they work together with the reptiliods?
Keep up the sharp mind - you are the only hope for the far right.
Greedy profit engine? Dude I don’t think you understand the costs built into manufacturing. Bamboo has a built in edge being so close to suppliers and dirt cheep labor.
What keeps from jumping the gun on either is the noise, as I like to do my work also at night. Is replacing the fans with something quieter a feasable option?
Turn off the fan, print at half speed, means silent
I just want to be able to purchase x1c but they're out of stock on their website :-(
I can see why they did this. The X1C is an amazing machine, but it's too expensive for most people, so they have a hard time establishing a community around their ecosystem. This is accessible for a much broader audience and will hopefully create a vibrant and creative community around their machines.
At least that's how I think they imagine how this will play out.
In reality I don't see how a tinkerer would buy this over a mk3s. The p1p is a stripped down version of a machine that was designed from the ground up to be as low maintenance as possible. Just because they remove the side panels and all the qol improvements doesn't mean it lends itself to playing around with it. It really doesn't look like it wants to be taken apart at all.
If I were in bambu lab's shoes I'd probably do the same thing, they have very little to lose with this machine because it didn't take any upfront investment from them that they need to recoup, but I don't think it'll steal a lot of market share from prusa.
Heres a thought though. How many tinkerers actually exist vs people who want to make things with their printers?
I dont think the majority of people tinker with printers because they want to. They do so because their printers suck out of the box. This is a printer that does not suck out of the box, and I think thats valuable to far more printer buyers than tinkerability.
Otherwise Vorons would be a lot more popular than they are.
@@bomas_ulz It doesnt break, and matches most 1kg spools. Limitations dont mean you must tinker with it. You can absolutely criticize those limitations, but that still doesnt mean it doesnt function as intended.
well the p1p is cheaper than the unassembled mk3 by like $100
❤ you hit my question X1 or P1P when I clicking on buy button. thanks for help… i choose X1 🙏 I would like know more about missing p1p calibration. is there in for example in manual
matter?😅
I hope this company makes some 3d printed files available to fill in the frame molding they took out.
Idea: strip down the X1 Carbon, take all the panels off it, and compare it with the P1P
Owww, genius idea.
Besides this model does not have Lidar, the same chassis can use almost the same settings done by you smart brother.
I kickstarted the X1C+AMS and love it. I have since got an Ender-3 S1 Plus and an Ender-5 S1. I ended up upgrading the S1 Plus to a Sonic Pad just to make it usable. what's the point of large prints if they take 7+ days? The 5 S1 is decent but comparing it to the P1P on price and features I never would have got it if I knew the P1P was coming out. I don't want to be proud of my printer. I want to be proud of what comes out of it and I can get great prints with almost no work out of the X1C. Starting my own little print farm I ended up pre-ordering 2 P1Ps because I want something that can just crank out PLA prints 24/7 without worrying about if I need to upgrade to the latest Klipper or whether I should swap out for that fancy new extruder I just heard about. All that stuff is great and if you want to build a printer and learn how it all works and tinker away, awesome, build a Voron. I just want to design and print stuff so Bambu Labs it is.
I want to see you compare them with your voron.