I appreciate you keeping us updated. Hope you find some relief soon. May I ask what your starting intermolar width is, and how much expansion you're trying to achieve?
Thank you for sharing this!!! I watched your video before, during my first week of my MARPE expander. I was so scared that it might not work, but I am on my 3rd week now and almost done!!! I was so scared because yours had 4 mini screws while mine was designed for only 2 mini screws, I thought maybe it might not work for me too. For my first 2 weeks, I've been doing 2 turns every day, then just 1 turn everyday on my 3rd week. At the end of 2nd week my 2 front teeth finally formed a gap just overnight!!! I was so glad 😭
Hey just wanna let you know cause of youre channel i was able to identify my mse failing and ended up getting surgical assistance within 15 days of getting my mse installed. thanks for your content !
I had the marpe in August and it was a fail. There was no expansion. Towards the end I was in excruciating pain with inflammation at the screw sites. It’s so disappointing.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Hi there, I'm just getting to know your channel, which I find very helpful, thank you so much! I'm sorry if you cover the answer to this question in another video, but may I ask you do you know why the first MARPE failed and the 2nd one succeeded? was it just random or something specific that made the first one failed and other one succeed? Thank you again!
@@tonato17 the second MARPE had an extra two screws which were tilted to the side for stability. It was also placed more posteriorly where the palatal bone wasn't so tall and some of the screws could achieve bicortical engagement
Hi, I have marpe & I’m having the same concerns as you were. However, my dentist said that it was working properly. I’ve done at least 30+ turns, yet I do not have a gap. I’m a 26 yr old female. At this point I don’t really trust my dentist because my experience has been different that the success stories throughout my research.
@@MegaLeoben Yes it did! My orthodontist put a wire at the top and I turned the expander seven more times after he put it there. It was sort of strange to me, but it did cause a gap that is now closing. I’ve turned it closer to 45 times now. The crossbite has been corrected in the back, but not in the front 🤔
How many turns did you complete on the MSE? You could cut the molar arms off and continue expanding just to see if you get a diastema. Sometimes a pause of a few days or a week can help in cases with TADs tipping and bending the appliance.
first of all, thank u for sharing ur experience with us. ive also had marpe before and it failed because the screws were too short now ive installed another one with longer screws and its been 6days ive been turning it twice a day and so far the suture didnt split.. i heard that u should feel a pop and then ull know that it split and the gap starts to show but no sign of that so far.. my marpe has only 2screws and most of the cases ive researched had 4 so i dont know im not very hopeful.. and i also feel the pressure on the sides of my palate im scared its just damaging my teeth :/
@@aaronkirsten8079 Yes I've been using an mRNA Appliance for two months now. Here's my latest update: cfs-survivors.org/blog/2020/12/09/two-month-vivos-mrna-update/
Interesting idea, doing the genioplasty earlier ... to spread out some of the stress on the nerves. That actually seems pretty smart! I hope it all goes well for you!
I got the Surgically assisted MSE and my screws have started to tilt and i have pain. I also didnt get the lefort cut. I hope this dosent fail, have you heard of failure with the surgical assist?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I got a cut down the palate and two smaller cuts on either side of the maxilla. Im losing my mind here, I finally started to have better breathing and now it's rolled back.
@@MegaLeoben I got it taken out, and was told my skull is too solid. So I'm gonna get my septum straightened and turbinates reduced. And thinking about going to the states to get expansion from Dr Kasey li, or staying here and getting another expander with lefort cut. It all depends on what give me the best result!
Its been two weeks. I see we got the exact same mse device. I got infection for the first week and after I see the doctor, he told me to turn the device to the opposite way. Did your orthodontist told you just try to turn to the opposite way?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I got infection. For the second day my throat is really hurt, like burning. I did not know I got infection. And everytime I turn the thing, it’s very painful. So I stopped turning the thing on the forth day (before he asked me to turn 6times, everytime 180° per day). On the fifth day, he saw my infection and he asked me to turn back 4times for 3days and then turn to the correct way again. Now I turn the thing to the maximum which I cannot turn anymore. It’s not working. He asked me to turn back again. I dunno what to do. Sorry my english is very fluent:(
I only start to have a diastema only 2 weeks after start MARPE, and just before it happened I felt something break between my front teeth. After this diastema suddenly opened to 1 mm. imho my suture was blinded.
Hey mate, sorry if I missed it in the video but did you get a cortipuncture where small holes are drilled along the suture prior to the MSE appliance being installed?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that's fucked man, Dr Ting recommends it for basically all adult male patients. Good luck with any further treatment - thanks for the quick response.
It's been one year sinse this video, but I am getting my MARPE soon and I am so worried about? Could you tell me how long did it take you to get used to having that metal in your mouth? Is eating becoming more normal? I'm a university student with exams coming up but I'm worried if the extender will interfere with my daily life.
Hello I'm watching all your videos, and I congratulate you because they are all very clear. I am an adult I have just passed 40 years and I also have a problem similar to yours with a narrow palate, I talked to my dentist about the MARPE technique that allows the expansion of the palate without surgery. But he tells me it can't be done. Can you explain me. Thank you very much. I write from Italy. We can talk privately I can give you my e-mail address. Thank you very much and have a nice day Dany
Hi Dany! Thank you for the kind words. Your dentist is correct. You have many areas of resistance to expansion in your skull. Some are structural, some are sutures. The problem is, sutures start to become really tightly locking in adulthood. This is called interdigitation. Therefore, the success rate for MARPE without surgery in males above 25 years old is low. I'm 26 and my first MARPE failed. I got lucky that my second MARPE succeeded. And you're 40, so it would be super low. You can try, but you're probably gonna need surgery. There are options on what kind of surgery you can get. If you would like to talk further through email, that is fine too :)
i will probably undergo SARPE + MARPE, 4:00 so this tradeoff, is this a myth? what did your doctor said? i'm basically doing this solely for my breathing and apnea, so it's important for me to know.
It's definitely a trade off but is it miniscule or significant? I don't know. Also SARPE already has MARPE in it. So it's redundant to say SARPE+MARPE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 sarpe is usually done with a Hyrax expander using a MARPE isnt recommened as the screws are so close to the suture that when the sergeon does the SARPE and breaks the suture, it can break alone the Marpe holes and not the suture, so they prefer to use a hyrax to avoid complications
@@gregducati999 Hi Greg. You're right that I should have specified that not every SARPE uses MARPE. However, I haven't heard of a SARPE patient using a tooth borne expander like hyrax in years. None of my surgeons I've consulted with even consider that an option.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that’s strange because the sergeons I went to see where worried about my MARPE saying they were worried it would cause a unexpected fracture when they hit the suture open with a chisel, they preferes to use a HYRAX or the I use a MARPE where the mini implants weren’t so close to the suture, each surgeon has their own way of doing things though I guess, I’m 7 days into MARPE (6 screws with cortical puncture) trying to open without surgery but I’m 37 If it doesn’t open soon I’ll get surgical assist
SARPE depending on how the cuts are done will not help as much with breathing as you want to open the nasal cavity as much as possible. You should get surgery the only open the mid palete suture and only slight cuts the rear of the maxilar walls but not all the way from front to back, look up the EASE technique, although dr LI basically invented it I’ve showed his TC scan with cuts to other DR and they say it’s common to do similar cuts that leave some of the from wall of the maxilar intact, don’t under any circumstances get a full on Lefort 1 that’s separates completely the maxilar as it want open the nasal vault much at all
Thanks for you videos! I'm 33 and my first marpe failed miserably. My orthodontic wants to try with a new one with longer screws, but my maxillary surgeon says either I can try again with Marpewith MARPE(with no guaranteed success) or go directly with SARPE (more cost but 100% success). What do you suggest? Did your second MARPE work? Thanks
Second MARPE did work for me. I think the key was that it was a 6 screws MARPE and 2 of the screws were tilted outwards. If you have lots of money, I suggest EASE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't have lots of Money, but the uncertain success of the second MARPE it"s making me think to spend a little extra for SARPE with 100% success. At the same time as I'm a third Class I will have to do Lefort I after the second MARPE or SARPE. Not easy at all to decide 😔
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I'm having trouble explaining orthodontists that I need expansion. I have a deviated septum, crossbite, and difficulty breathing through the nose. I'm on 3rd year of braces and still have some overjet and a crossbite on one side but I would argue that the other side isn't great too. They started saying that they might not be able to make it perfect but 2-3 times told me that I don't need bimax or mse, marpe or any of that. Actually 4 orthodontists and a jaw surgeon (who actually has horrible teeth and deep bite) told me that i can fix it all with only braces but now after 3 years still a lot to go. Are they dumb??
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hi, so after this one failed you got a second appliance placed in? And it was covered under the j Irish cost? You didn’t have to pay 3000 or so a second time? I may need a second as well because I have relapsed :/
@@evanlavizadeh4032 the Invisalign part is the worst part. did you notice any asymmetry during this time? I can only bite down on my left side and not my right now
No, they are very different. Only similarity is the nasal endoscopy and the separation of the mid-palatal suture. (which are the two least important factors)
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Ha, ha, ha, yeah. I watched it last night so you hadn't had a chance to change it. I thought it was clever to add a bit of humour to the "bad" news.
I appreciate you keeping us updated. Hope you find some relief soon. May I ask what your starting intermolar width is, and how much expansion you're trying to achieve?
I can't remember my starting intermole with but my ortho says I only need five or six millimeters of expansion
EVan you are awesome, this video is getting stuck somehow.
Thank you for sharing this!!! I watched your video before, during my first week of my MARPE expander. I was so scared that it might not work, but I am on my 3rd week now and almost done!!! I was so scared because yours had 4 mini screws while mine was designed for only 2 mini screws, I thought maybe it might not work for me too. For my first 2 weeks, I've been doing 2 turns every day, then just 1 turn everyday on my 3rd week. At the end of 2nd week my 2 front teeth finally formed a gap just overnight!!! I was so glad 😭
I'm so relieved for you!! Wow 2 screws? Does that appliance have a specific name? I ended up getting a new appliance with 6 screws!!
Did you notice any difference in nose breathing and sleeping ?
Alicia Where did you get your procedure? TY:) Glad for you
Alicia Victoria Sena did you have the surgery?
Hey just wanna let you know cause of youre channel i was able to identify my mse failing and ended up getting surgical assistance within 15 days of getting my mse installed. thanks for your content !
That is so awesome to hear!! So glad this content helped someone! 🥰 How was the surgical assist operation?
Ian Kershin that's great did you have a hard time getting insurance to cover it or did you have it approved beforehand?
I had the marpe in August and it was a fail. There was no expansion. Towards the end I was in excruciating pain with inflammation at the screw sites. It’s so disappointing.
That is very disappointing :( That's how I felt when my first one failed. I'm happy the next one succeeded. Will you do SARPE?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Hi there, I'm just getting to know your channel, which I find very helpful, thank you so much! I'm sorry if you cover the answer to this question in another video, but may I ask you do you know why the first MARPE failed and the 2nd one succeeded? was it just random or something specific that made the first one failed and other one succeed? Thank you again!
@@tonato17 the second MARPE had an extra two screws which were tilted to the side for stability. It was also placed more posteriorly where the palatal bone wasn't so tall and some of the screws could achieve bicortical engagement
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you !
Hi, I have marpe & I’m having the same concerns as you were. However, my dentist said that it was working properly. I’ve done at least 30+ turns, yet I do not have a gap. I’m a 26 yr old female. At this point I don’t really trust my dentist because my experience has been different that the success stories throughout my research.
Hmm I think that may be normal actually. I'm not sure. Sorry.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 What’s even more odd to me is I am now getting a gap after at least 40+ turns, but the gap is forming by my canine 🥹
@@laries3140 Did it work out? I'm struggling to get a split as well.
@@MegaLeoben Yes it did! My orthodontist put a wire at the top and I turned the expander seven more times after he put it there. It was sort of strange to me, but it did cause a gap that is now closing. I’ve turned it closer to 45 times now. The crossbite has been corrected in the back, but not in the front 🤔
How many turns did you complete on the MSE? You could cut the molar arms off and continue expanding just to see if you get a diastema. Sometimes a pause of a few days or a week can help in cases with TADs tipping and bending the appliance.
first of all, thank u for sharing ur experience with us. ive also had marpe before and it failed because the screws were too short now ive installed another one with longer screws and its been 6days ive been turning it twice a day and so far the suture didnt split.. i heard that u should feel a pop and then ull know that it split and the gap starts to show but no sign of that so far.. my marpe has only 2screws and most of the cases ive researched had 4 so i dont know im not very hopeful.. and i also feel the pressure on the sides of my palate im scared its just damaging my teeth :/
Wow two screws??! Never heard of that. My new MARPE has 6! Hmmmm I hope your provider knows what they're doing. Any success yet?
any update?
Thanks for this update Evan, it's super helpful and informative.
No prob! I enjoy doing it!
@@aaronkirsten8079 Yes I've been using an mRNA Appliance for two months now. Here's my latest update: cfs-survivors.org/blog/2020/12/09/two-month-vivos-mrna-update/
Would not do DOME. Zygos will not be moved.
very cool! did he tell you how he does the genioplasty? dr. walline had proposed a genioglossus advancement for me.
Yes it's the same as what Dr.Walline told you. Sliding chin genieoplasty.
Interesting idea, doing the genioplasty earlier ... to spread out some of the stress on the nerves. That actually seems pretty smart! I hope it all goes well for you!
Yeah, I can't imagine any downfalls. I'm excited!! Thank you!
I got the Surgically assisted MSE and my screws have started to tilt and i have pain. I also didnt get the lefort cut. I hope this dosent fail, have you heard of failure with the surgical assist?
What surgical cuts did you get?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I got a cut down the palate and two smaller cuts on either side of the maxilla. Im losing my mind here, I finally started to have better breathing and now it's rolled back.
@@Cannonbreed sorry to hear that, same here. Did it work out?
@@MegaLeoben I got it taken out, and was told my skull is too solid. So I'm gonna get my septum straightened and turbinates reduced. And thinking about going to the states to get expansion from Dr Kasey li, or staying here and getting another expander with lefort cut. It all depends on what give me the best result!
@@Cannonbreed good luck 👍. I have a consult with kasey li too. Would be good to know if Li’s procedure is guaranteed to split.
Its been two weeks. I see we got the exact same mse device. I got infection for the first week and after I see the doctor, he told me to turn the device to the opposite way. Did your orthodontist told you just try to turn to the opposite way?
What is your orthodontist's reason for telling you to turn the opposite way?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I got infection. For the second day my throat is really hurt, like burning. I did not know I got infection. And everytime I turn the thing, it’s very painful. So I stopped turning the thing on the forth day (before he asked me to turn 6times, everytime 180° per day). On the fifth day, he saw my infection and he asked me to turn back 4times for 3days and then turn to the correct way again. Now I turn the thing to the maximum which I cannot turn anymore. It’s not working. He asked me to turn back again. I dunno what to do. Sorry my english is very fluent:(
im literally on the same journey. 4 days in im not feeling anything or seeing anything change with my MSE
Hmmmm might be too early to say. How old are you?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 26 :/
@@IKLaFlare ahh shit same :( good luck! It's not too late!
I only start to have a diastema only 2 weeks after start MARPE, and just before it happened I felt something break between my front teeth. After this diastema suddenly opened to 1 mm. imho my suture was blinded.
Hey mate, sorry if I missed it in the video but did you get a cortipuncture where small holes are drilled along the suture prior to the MSE appliance being installed?
Nope I didn't.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that's fucked man, Dr Ting recommends it for basically all adult male patients. Good luck with any further treatment - thanks for the quick response.
@@stray4445 no prob! Yeah idk Dr.Yoon said it doesn't help. Dr.Walline said the same. And I think my suture broke. I think it's just my thick skull
@@stray4445 i was 26 and 9 months old when I got MARPE installed. No corticopunctures. Expanded over 10mm.
It depends on the individual.
@@claudius_drusus_ Do you know if it also depends on the age? I'm 40 and considering MARPE. Thanks
How many turns per day did you do? Did you get a corticopuncture?
2 turns per day. No corticopuncture
Will the genioplasty be ok for your condyles?
I don't even know what condyles are :(
I had a genioplasty but it didn't affect my condyles or tongue at all.
It's been one year sinse this video, but I am getting my MARPE soon and I am so worried about? Could you tell me how long did it take you to get used to having that metal in your mouth? Is eating becoming more normal? I'm a university student with exams coming up but I'm worried if the extender will interfere with my daily life.
It made my sleep apnea a little worse when I had the expander in. That's the only side effect that really mattered.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I have sleep apnea too. But its all will be for health. I know it will get better. Everything passes in this world.
Hello I'm watching all your videos, and I congratulate you because they are all very clear. I am an adult I have just passed 40 years and I also have a problem similar to yours with a narrow palate, I talked to my dentist about the MARPE technique that allows the expansion of the palate without surgery. But he tells me it can't be done. Can you explain me. Thank you very much. I write from Italy. We can talk privately I can give you my e-mail address. Thank you very much and have a nice day Dany
Hi Dany! Thank you for the kind words. Your dentist is correct. You have many areas of resistance to expansion in your skull. Some are structural, some are sutures. The problem is, sutures start to become really tightly locking in adulthood. This is called interdigitation.
Therefore, the success rate for MARPE without surgery in males above 25 years old is low. I'm 26 and my first MARPE failed. I got lucky that my second MARPE succeeded.
And you're 40, so it would be super low. You can try, but you're probably gonna need surgery. There are options on what kind of surgery you can get.
If you would like to talk further through email, that is fine too :)
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Hi I have read your message very carefully and thank you very much for what you wrote to me. Thank you
i will probably undergo SARPE + MARPE, 4:00 so this tradeoff, is this a myth? what did your doctor said? i'm basically doing this solely for my breathing and apnea, so it's important for me to know.
It's definitely a trade off but is it miniscule or significant? I don't know. Also SARPE already has MARPE in it. So it's redundant to say SARPE+MARPE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 sarpe is usually done with a Hyrax expander using a MARPE isnt recommened as the screws are so close to the suture that when the sergeon does the SARPE and breaks the suture, it can break alone the Marpe holes and not the suture, so they prefer to use a hyrax to avoid complications
@@gregducati999 Hi Greg. You're right that I should have specified that not every SARPE uses MARPE. However, I haven't heard of a SARPE patient using a tooth borne expander like hyrax in years. None of my surgeons I've consulted with even consider that an option.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that’s strange because the sergeons I went to see where worried about my MARPE saying they were worried it would cause a unexpected fracture when they hit the suture open with a chisel, they preferes to use a HYRAX or the I use a MARPE where the mini implants weren’t so close to the suture, each surgeon has their own way of doing things though I guess, I’m 7 days into MARPE (6 screws with cortical puncture) trying to open without surgery but I’m 37 If it doesn’t open soon I’ll get surgical assist
SARPE depending on how the cuts are done will not help as much with breathing as you want to open the nasal cavity as much as possible. You should get surgery the only open the mid palete suture and only slight cuts the rear of the maxilar walls but not all the way from front to back, look up the EASE technique, although dr LI basically invented it I’ve showed his TC scan with cuts to other DR and they say it’s common to do similar cuts that leave some of the from wall of the maxilar intact, don’t under any circumstances get a full on Lefort 1 that’s separates completely the maxilar as it want open the nasal vault much at all
Thanks for you videos! I'm 33 and my first marpe failed miserably. My orthodontic wants to try with a new one with longer screws, but my maxillary surgeon says either I can try again with Marpewith MARPE(with no guaranteed success) or go directly with SARPE (more cost but 100% success). What do you suggest? Did your second MARPE work? Thanks
Second MARPE did work for me. I think the key was that it was a 6 screws MARPE and 2 of the screws were tilted outwards. If you have lots of money, I suggest EASE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't have lots of Money, but the uncertain success of the second MARPE it"s making me think to spend a little extra for SARPE with 100% success. At the same time as I'm a third Class I will have to do Lefort I after the second MARPE or SARPE. Not easy at all to decide 😔
@@fiore7777 lefort 1 in this context could mean many things. Do you mean lefort 1 advancement, segmental lefort 1 expansion, or lefort 1 SARPE?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 @Evan Lavizadeh as I understood it would be le fort I twice, the first time Sarpe le fort I, and after le fort I Advancement..
@@fiore7777 ahh I see. Have you been tested for sleep apnea? My diagnosis means it's covered
if you don't mind me asking, how old are you?
I'm 26
I heard it is harder for younger guys as they probably have harder bones and soft tissues.
so a sleeping test is not sufficient?
Sorry I'm not understanding your question. Can you elaborate? I'm not remembering what I said in this video.
Did you still have to pay the full price for your MSE?
Yep. But the second expander was included
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I'm having trouble explaining orthodontists that I need expansion. I have a deviated septum, crossbite, and difficulty breathing through the nose. I'm on 3rd year of braces and still have some overjet and a crossbite on one side but I would argue that the other side isn't great too. They started saying that they might not be able to make it perfect but 2-3 times told me that I don't need bimax or mse, marpe or any of that. Actually 4 orthodontists and a jaw surgeon (who actually has horrible teeth and deep bite) told me that i can fix it all with only braces but now after 3 years still a lot to go. Are they dumb??
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hi, so after this one failed you got a second appliance placed in? And it was covered under the j Irish cost? You didn’t have to pay 3000 or so a second time?
I may need a second as well because I have relapsed :/
@@lyssw9073 that's correct but not every provider gives the second expander for free
I did surgical assist! I'm 2.5 months post!! hope you're doing well =]
I started at 30 mm, now at 35 mm. I can bREATHHHHEEEE.
@@teethree141 AMAZING NEWS!! congratulations!! That's so great to hear. Thanks for letting me know!
thank you! how many mm are you at right now?@@evanlavizadeh4032
@@evanlavizadeh4032 the Invisalign part is the worst part. did you notice any asymmetry during this time? I can only bite down on my left side and not my right now
It's my 5th day ad I tomorrow is my appointment I think the expander is not working on my teeth.. 😑
I got another MARPE after this and It took me 3 weeks to see any results. It was a success! keep going!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you so much 🎊
@@evanlavizadeh4032 may i ask who you got the 2nd MARPE with? Was it Dr. Yoon again?
@@shawneecorey yes it was!
I have a question I have a question. You said your orthodontist is Doctor Yoon. By chance… is it audrey yoon or her father ?
Dr.Audrey Yoon
Best wishes, Evan!
Thank you so much Vishal!
DOME-MINE sounds like Dr Li’s EASE procedure…do you agree Evan? Oh…I watched a bit further in your video, and you answered my question. Lol
No, they are very different. Only similarity is the nasal endoscopy and the separation of the mid-palatal suture. (which are the two least important factors)
1:35 that makes sense
Yeah I hope I'm not damaging my teeth. :/
😫😫😫😫
I knoooow
Awww, you edited your friend out of the video...i thought that bit was funny.
HAHA you noticed!!! I thought it was kinda too silly. Maybe I'll make some more silly ones later.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Ha, ha, ha, yeah. I watched it last night so you hadn't had a chance to change it. I thought it was clever to add a bit of humour to the "bad" news.