Angron like: "I know i am a fucking monster, i have these nails in my head ! So ... what is your excuse, Russ ? Why are you killing women and children ?"
Pretty rich coming from the guys called "WorldEaters" I really doubt women and children weren't killed by Angron, nails or not. And they don't have the excuse of misfire, as they prefer close quarters combat, so they would know whom they are targeting.
the heartbreaking thing is, right up until he gets turned into a khornate demon that morality really does shine through in a lot of ways. To varying extents of course, but still. It almost disapears once the transformation's done if I recall correctly.
Not really He was supposed to be similar to Alpharious in a sense. To sense the emotions and doubts that his brothers would conceal. With that he would know the loyalty of his men, that the emperor’s gamble and the doubt of those when meeting him and that on command he could doom the imperium and how much of a risk that Big E was taking. Instead he acted in spite and rage and it grew into a scar.
His perspective is so....human, i genuinely believe he had the aspect of empathy because he's not only self aware but also understanding of the evil he's actively inflicting upon others. I can easily see him being best buds with the Khan and ironically enough Vulcan if the Butchers nails was never forced onto him. I always saw the 30k books as a Greek tragedy, and no one was done dirtier than Angron....
When i was 14 years i was in love with sanguinius, the perfection, now that im 35 and reading with difficult english true lore,not the few italian books or codex bad translate,i understand Angron,his umanity,even with the nails,and this man is my favorite primarch. Pure love
Love him or hate him, Angron’s right. The Emperor’s a hypocrite who never had to face a judge for his crimes. If he had reflected on any of his mistakes, he might not have been stuck where he is now.
Well, he was a hard line atheist, what do you expect? In all seriousness, it was all due to the threat of Chaos. Without it, The Emperor would have been happy with providing each world with enough technology to regain their past glory at their own pace along with a network of reliable communications and trade routes. At the end of the day, he only wanted to wage war so there could be no more war ever again, that's why he considered himself a soldier as opposed to a warrior
@@Halfort57 Emphasis on the 'hard-line' there. He's not just a hard-line atheist, he's a militant one. Equally as tyrannical as those who would impose their religions onto people, not more, not less, equally as morally revolting. -- To be fair though, I think if we consider his worldview on how he views the Warp in general then he's not entirely wrong. To him it's not like the Chaos Gods are *literal* gods, they're just gestalts. Entities. Beholden to their nature like mortal men and women are. He just failed to account for the fact that if these entities are benefitting from the collective unconscious of humanity, that you can't really 100% control what goes on in the warp. It was in his eyes, -- one of the most qualified people to speak on it, being an exceptionally powerful psyker that he was and having firsthand experience with all four of them -- that they course they took was the only potential way to deal with the warp in any meaningful degree. Was it moral? Hell no. But it paints a picture of what his intentions were far clearer than him being a slaving-bastard (which is what he is still, but not for the reasons Angron is assuming here) or an infallible, all-knowing, all-correct paragon of moral virtue (like so many Loyalists, some primarchs included, wanted to ascribe onto him). After all... the Emperor's a human being. He can be multifaceted. He can be bad, and good, and everywhere inbetween. Angron can be right here, but his own morality pointed at himself doesn't look upon him favourably. And while he **knows** that, it makes it much easier for Leman to dismiss him. It's all very, very well put together.
I would object the emperor wasn't as Hypocritical as the meme say. He's a cold blodded ass but he never lied about it. How could he if he send his childrens to butcher and enslave people's. Sure the end justify the means is his argument but he never really lied about it. It was people's like leaman and guilliman who convinced themselves there was more to it. Conrad was the pure embodiment of it. Leaman was basically a dig happy to kill. Guilliman was an Hypocritical ass talking about honor while as angron say it feed the slave trade that is the emperium. The khan who is the only smart one joined just because he knew he had no choice he even hated the impérial truth Only other ones who's an Hypocritical ass is corvus Sanguinius did it to save peoples so I supose he just has the same logic lion is a tool to be used Angron is the only one that perfectly describe the emperium
I can't help but feel Angron won here. He had real arguments while all Russ had were baseless accusations and insults like "heretic" or "you are lost". Russ basically just said "you are wrong" without trying to prove or explain why.
Because he couldn't, and it's intentional irony that the atheist loyalist says heretic and appeals to force while the butcher has a philosophy pretty close and less compromised than Corax
@@thewayfarer8849 Yeah. Though, if I remeber correctly, when Angron tryed to pull his philosophy next time with Guilliman, the Big Blue did better than Russ.
Angron is underrated... Almost every accusation he makes here is the truth. Sure in the grand picture what the Emperor is doing might be necessary. But as Angron the Empath himself says, without the nails he would not serve. What was the true intended purpose of Angron? And what was the Emperor hoping to save, when he saved him against his will?
@jackmyers8687 yeah, right? It almost makes losing yourself to an eternal blood rage, becoming hellishly irredeemable hedonistic degenerate, becoming a literal sack of pus and disease, or living with the eternal fear of becoming a chaos spawn (even if you did everything right), worth it.
I can't believe everything in this channel is voiced by you. It's all so damn good, so professional. What an amazing broad range you got. If GW had half a brain they would hire you to make audiobooks.
This is one of my favorite parts of the whole warhammer 40k setting. It gives angron real depth. He was delt the worsted hand out of all the primarchs and when he finally meets big E his father, he still didn't catch a break. The tragedy of Angron's stories almost embody the setting
I love seeing Heresy interactions between Angron and loyalist primarchs because in every instance Angron pulls out facts and statistics and a signed copy of Piotr Kropotkin's "The Conquest of Bread" and the loyalists' response is invariably "um, no? wrong. cringe heresy? 👉🤪 you're a bad person so i dont need to listen to your points. nope"
Honestly, without the butchers nails I honestly believe he would of went down the same route as the lost primarchs due to his compassion and while Vulcan has compassion at the end of day it’s only compassion for people who are willing to obey. Meanwhile if your a traitor or Xenos then Vulkans a drake, that will burn your world to ash
Hell i honestly think he would have been the most apposed to the emperor’s xenophobia, and i think angron would go out of his way to try and help innocent xeno species hade from getting massacred by the imperium, after all calling xenos very existence a “crime” and also saying that conquering the galaxy was humanity’s “birth right” Would be things nail-free angron would hate, what did an alien species who never knew humanity existed do to deserve extinction?, what did humanity do to deserve the galaxy over other species? angron suffered at the hands of humanity’s cruelty, and no such cruelty should have the right to rule the galaxy I think to angron the only birth right he would believe in is the right to be free
In great crusade Imperium had policy against aliens that if they weren't threat to Imperium they could live as protectorate but that all depended on Primarch/Commander choice. There are mentions of them in Cawl novel. Same situation is actually in current imperium, there are xenos that live next to humans and even trade with Imperium. But it all depends on who they meet with actually. There is Interex in Great Crusade that was wiped out due to Erebus and Adarnians that were killed due them being too useful for humans.
Let's be honest; ADB did work making pretty simple evil characters have great moments. Night Lords, Curze, Angron, Abbadon are not compelling at a surface look, and he writes so well you feel bad for utterly irredeemable people
I still think his greatest feat was taking the Word Bearers - a legion decried for so long as being 2d cardboard villains, and making them protagonists that a reader can understand the motivations of, even if they may not agree with them. His work with the Night Lords in this was rightly lauded, but the first heretic was an absolutely next level piece of work.
honestly i always feel the worst about the thousand sons because they genuinely had no choice to fall. like even if the events at prospero had gone differently they were still all dying slowly due to the gene flaw, and so even if russ hadn't been retarded, further down the line tzeetch would have made his offer, and magnus in his arrogance and desperation could have easily accepted it if the alternative was to let his legion die.
Angron was kindness, our freedom, our love and our forgiveness and a last chance a true choice to give into the imperium not to fight but happily be apart of something greater and it was stolen from us robbed from us and will never see what could've been the greatest primearch to lead humanity and that's why i cry reading this character he never deserved what happend to him he was the greatest of humanity, Angron will always be the most human of primearchs
I really like how pre-demon Angron isn't just a screaming barbarian troglodyte. He may be the least reasonable man in the room, and he may be clinically insane, but he can hand verbal beatdowns as well as he hands actual beatdowns.
My dude, I've spent several hours tonight consuming every 40k vid you've made. Brilliant performance, words do not do justice to your talent, you need way more subs, my guy. If I were to suggest, a snippent from Last church done by you would be splendid. I am dying to see your rendition of Uriah. (and it's a popular enough story to get views :P)
Angron has a good point, from his perspective of course because the emperor in his "wisdom" didn't tell the primarchs about the chaos, which explains his tyranny. However, Angron's actions towards his sons are not much better, knowing the weight of the butcher's nails
The problem is that telling them about chaos inherently opens them up to corruption. Chaos doesn’t need anything but the briefest moment of lapse in judgment to infect and corrupt a soul. The emperor made the right call.
@@Crazieyboy15 the issue is that they would be open to corruption regardless if he told them or nor But by not telling them, they wete utterly undefended
@@Crazieyboy15 Would Fulgrim have picked up that sword if he knew about Chaos? Would Magnus have trusted the Warp so much? Would Horus have ever allowed the very much chaosy Warrior's Lodge to thrive? If Kurze had actually been told about the nature of the future and how Chaos fucks with you, would he have gone so far down the path we see? Also Lorgar would probably have shot Kor Phaeron and Erebus pretty early on when he realized what they were actually worshipping. The Emperor left His Son's completely ignorant and undefended against an existential threat that corrupts the very nature of a person, and was then surprised when some of them end up corrupted. If Horus knew more about Chaos and how to fight it, they likely would have had the Interex as allies as well, so even greater potential power.
@AveSicarius Fulgrim, yes, dude heard the whispers of the demon and thought it was his subconscious. Like bro, who thinks like that? Magnus knew full well the dangers of the Warp and did it anyway because he was arrogant to think he knew better. With Horus, the Warrior Lodges started off looking benign and beneficial, probably not very "chaosy" either. And Kurze was already too far gone to actually listen to anyone, not his fault, just his lack of an upbringing. *edit* You're underestimating how insidious Erebus and Kor Phaeron were.
The thing is, Angron didn’t initially force the Nails onto them. After Gehenna, they started to augment themselves. Angron later found out, and decided to enforce it legionwide as more of a punishment. Slave of Nuceria shows this to us. After De’Shea, however, shows us that Angron, when the Nails weren’t biting, truly loved his sons. He named them his Eaters of Worlds, and accepted the weight of the golden shackles the Emperor forced upon him for their sakes. But as time went on, and his mangled brain began to die, to the point he legitimately would never have survived the Horus Heresy one way or the other, he became more and more insane, searching for serenity, even as the Nails stole it from him or gave it to him in battle, and his demigod-like form stole it from him with every swing of his axes.
Maybe if the Emperor told them about the horrors of the warp and how they manifest even in seemingly benign cultures if left unsupervised, this scene would not have happened... Or if Angron was allowed to die a hero, rathan than made live long enough to become the villain.
Chaos becomes more powerful as more people know and whorship them. The emperor wanted to save the material universe by forcing every single one of his subjects to deny gods essentially starving them. This was the reason why for example Khorne was not getting more powerful even with the carnage of the great crusade.
@@Noname-sy3du Telling the Primarch's would result in them believing in them? How lol? The Primarch's given knowledge of Chaos are infinitely more protected and more able to do their job at preventing such things down the line. ALL the Primarch's fell because they did not know what they were getting into, had they been told, they would have acted very differently. Chaos also gets more powerful from massive excess of emotions, like what happens when your superpowered transhuman son's get influenced by it because they don't understand what they are doing and end up burning half the Galaxy down. The Horus Heresy only works if the Emperor is stupid and shortsighted in many ways, and so He is, it is the issue with having many prewritten points in a narrative, you have to write around them, and that doesn't mesh well with supposedly hypercompetent characters.
People also often forget that humanity tends to run face first into the brick wall of destiny in the attempt to run away from it. The emperor literally made the military force of not just the loyalists but the heretics as well, and Angron and Kurze were knives he should’ve seen coming. Hell after the primarchs were THROWN THROUGH THE WARP he should’ve expected the very real possibility of corruption either by the trip or the destinations.
I love Angron here. I don't like Leman Russ impression here. He is too bland, too high-heels. Leman in the books is a wolf. He is supposed to be FERAL.
No. Leman wants people to think he's feral, but he's not. He wants people to think he's a simple barbarian, but he's not. Though I do agree with you on his voice actor here.
I agree however it could be argued that this is how Angron saw Russ. He is supposed to be a noble pretending to be a savage and this exchange could be illustrated as a highrider draped in wolf furs lecturing a rabid hound.
he is right about everything, loved this part from Betrayer, except the part where once again clings to the nails. "why would I become a better person when I can blame everything on the nails ?"
When you have a torture device in your head that forces you to be a monster, and your brain is constantly getting mangled and and butchered only to heal and continue the cycle only with ever cycle the pain becomes worse, the rage becomes harder to resist, It’s like a bunch of rusted saws going back and forth instead you’re skull and constantly hacking your brain Angron’s experience is torture
The problem Is how little deception was needed, Russ already hated Magnus and when he showed no intent to fight Russ still went full dogshit brain even with Valdor saying him to don't do bullshit.
no, they resisted it at first. and when the librarius started dying messily because of complications due to the nails, Angron decreed that either they remove the nails or be executed, mind you removing the nails is basically impossible without killing the subject
No, they did not all get the Butcher's Nails out of their own volition. Angron ordered the reverse-engineering efforts on the Butcher's Nails and explicitly ordered all World Eaters to get them and that they should be incorporated into the Space Marine creation process. _"In the aftermath of this slaughter (Ghenna Massacre), the World Eaters were formally censured by the Emperor of Mankind and commanded to cease the implantation of the "Butcher's Nails" cortical implants._ _But the Primarch Angron paid little heed to the Emperor's dictates and ordered the work of the XIIth Legion's Techmarines and Apothecaries to continue with the mass production and implantation of the deadly cortical implants known as the Butcher's Nails in all of his gene-sons."_ Mago's rebellion is just one example of World Eaters refusing the Nails, their refusal wasn't exactly respected... The only World Eaters exempt from the nails were the Librarians, and only because none survived its effects (which they only learned after many attempts).
Leman didn't bother giving him a proper response, probably cause he was himself never told of the past or present, i don't think even leman knows why the great crusade is happening
Angron won this fight... even if the Space Wolves killed Angron before he axed Leman, Angron would still win. He wants to die. So there is literally no way he can lose in this fight. He dies, he wins. He kills, Leman he wins.
You can also say Angron already lost, he wins? He doesn’t care hell keep killing just because, he dies ? He doesn’t care he did what he wanted killed as he pleased
@@jackmyers8687 if he was honest he would have taken his own life. Hes the guy who bitches about life, doesnt do anything to solve and wants to drag everyone down to his level because he suffered. I can't care less for characters like this buckets of pissing and moaning
Angrons nails may have ruined him and turned him to madness. His actions ruined his sons and tempt them all to chaos…but the man spoke nothing but facts here.
The Emperor denied and rejected his humanity, his flaws and the thought that he could be wrong….he was little more than a imperialist and dictator thinking only he and his idea of what the galaxy and humanity should be and nothing else was correct. The Emperor was like any one man claiming to be the savior….arrogant, self righteous, and despite his hate for religion had a god-complex. He never allowed anyone to question him and in the end he made Chaos become much worse than it was and simply created a hellhole for humanity as well as his own downfall. The Imperium is a sickness, a sickness built and then further rotted by a hypocrite. Also I’m gonna call bullshit on the people who say shit like “oh but the Emperor knew what was going to happen which is why he did what he did” that’s just lazy writing and in all honesty is more of a dismissal of his flaws.
Actually... that would 100% have been Lorgar. Lorgar and the Word Bearers make the Black Templars look like atheists. Lorgar quite literally worshipped his father. He was rasied on a Chaos undivided world and when the Emperor arrived. Lorgar immediatly declared his complete and unquestioning loyalty and service to Him. Lorgar put up with a lot of shit, *EVEN THE RAZING OF MONARHCIA* was not his final blow. Lorgar was on his knees, pleading with Magnus as to what he should do, where should be turn after this display of discipline. Even there, Lorgar was still clinging to the last shreds of loyalty to his father, but when Magnus gave him the cold shoulder and left him to suffer, and by extension - The Emperor - Lorgar turned to the only voices that would give him comfort.
Angron and Big E would be beefing everytime they crossed paths if he didn't have the butchers nail. Angron wouldn't stand for what the Imperium is doing.
I have to admit such honesty from Angron is unexpected. The sad part is that despite the millions of people he and his sons slaughtered and every world he drowned in blood he's right. What did Leman Russ to Magnus and his world after he made a "mistake"? He chose to slaughter everyone on Prospero; not only the Thousand Sons but also every man, women and child. He offered no freedom, he brought death to everyone and forced Magnus to become a traitor in order to save himself, his sons and his world. The difference between Russ and Angron is that Angron can't think rational anymore since he got the nails which slowly destroy his brain and turn every non violent thought into unbearable pain. Russ on the other hand actively chose to kill Magnus, destroy his world and slaughter his sons as well as every civilian. Russ chose to become an executioner, Angron does it because his sanity does no longer exist and it's the only thing left in his life.
I mean, yeah angron is right in this particular situation. The only argument Leman Russ had was that angron had his sons implanted with the butchers nails as well. Which in and of itself was only half true. The world eaters made the choice themselves to develop a version of the butchers nails for the astartes and implant it into themselves to be closer to their primarch. Afaik angron never forced them to do it but also didn't stop them from doing it either. Only later on did he begin to promote the butchers nails.
@@RufusJuice the emotion you manage to put into angron is incredible. Keep up the amazing work. Hope the black library finds your channel, and gets you to voice the next books!
With Angron I always have a hard time because I agree with 9/10 of his statement and then get lost at "therefore be as awful and hypocritical as possible and get enslaved to chaos"
Wasn't angron tricked into daemonhood by Lorgar when he was near death and couldn't think straight? Im paraphrasing cause that's how i vaguely remember it.
@@PirateFrog. Somewhat. He was also driven mad with rage because Guilliman taunted him and broke his friends' skulls while fighting...which was really Angron's fault, because he was wearing them on his chest while fighting a Primarch wearing a power fist, so they got knocked off and stepped on.
@@PirateFrog. I heard he wasn't really tricked but some last ditch effort on lorgars part and angron couldn't really fight back. If I had the motivation I would read the books. I like angron, but looking at the comments he unfortunately attracts people who lack empathy. Angron doesn't see a point in any of this and the people who could pull him out of his nihilism are dead. Choas is power without purpose and since this is the GRIMDARK future. Any one using chaos for good is non-existent
What I don’t like about Angron is that he exists to justify the Emperor’s evils. Lemme explain. It would not be unusual for the Emperor to kill his servents once they are done with it. He did it with the Thunder Warriors. He did it with the 2nd and 11th legion. And he had plans to probably do the same to the Navigators when the Webway Project was completed. Angron had a tragic life. We all know it. But most of the decisions when he was a Primarch was really just him being forced and act in a certain way. Like Perturabo, but unlike him, Angron actually enjoyed the slaughter and the killing. He is a sadist, at least in the fury in the nails. Not like the traditional slaaneshi sadist obviously, but the khornate “I will make you feel pain before death” sadist. So, we get a moment just before pre heresy, where the Emperor having already erased the 2nd and the 11th and going “Well, I mean. That boy with the nails in his head does kill well, so I can’t just get rid of him.” He doesn’t care. If it were as simple as “What have they done to you my boy?”, the Emperor would have landed his custodes, taken Nuceria and burn their treacherous, dark relic of a planet down. But he did not. Instead, he abducted an emotionally unstable and hysterical man, whos emotions are only sated when in combat. Even the Emperor taking him out back and mercy killing him would have been a greater good to the universe then if he gave him a full army. Kharn and his brothers were desperate enablers. Angron is not a well written character after he gets picked up from Nuceria, for then he becomes a puppet. A statistic of 12 in the Emperor’s armies. And he does not care. But Angron cares. He cares because he wishes it was his death that was met on Nuceria. Now, the Universe suffers because of this mistake. Angron may be ‘justified’, and even ‘sympathetic’, but he is far from right. The writers now treat him as this largely 2-D daemon shadow that only exists to kill. And that is a darn tragedy. Also, if you want to know why he is far from right, I have one critical comparison. Remember how he treated the high riders? It was pure respect and duty. Remember how he treated the World Eaters? Slaves. Ironically. Russ was not the person to should have talken to him. Not Gulliman. Not even someone who might be able to understand a fraction of the pain like Perturabo, Mortarion or anyone. It was the Emperor himself. But like a deadbeat dad, he dabbed out and we basically never see the two interact in a way that is meaningful.
Ignroring the obvious fact that being in the imperium is generally better than being outside for humans considering all the threats in the galaxy (even before Tyranids and Necrons became an issue) and the fact that he ignored the mutilation of his legion Angron is again pointing about how unlucky he is to the wrong man. Leman Russ was dropped on a primitive world where people are larping as vikings, wolves are bigger than a horse and there are literally warhammer fantasy trolls roaming the land. Angron should have been the healer, the paladin of the primarchs but the butcher's nail turned his gift into pointless bitterness. He could walk into Ultramar and he would still find something to complain about the way people are living.
@@Alzir-n9m Ok let's try: 1) they don't fight for ideal but for land, wealth and men Kinda true but misleading, the crusade needs those things, that's true, but the final objective is to create a galaxy where humanity can live safe from aliens and chaos (he doesn't know the 2' so it's ok). 2)he is correct about the fact that every planet has to submit to the empire even if they are granted autonomy later 3)He decides to completely ignore the fact that he mutilates and abuse his legion, making him arguably worse than the emperor in that aspect 4)He is ordered to conquer worlds, that is true, but it's his choice to leave them ruined instead of working to reconstruction like Guilliman does, he destroys and he enjoys it (thanks to the nails) but he doesn't care about trying to fix what he did and instead he simply complains 5)in the end he never actually cared about killing a tyrant to free people because he either worked for the emperor or worked for Horus\chaos gods so he was just trading a tyrant for another
1) That is the ideal that the Crusade justifies itself with, yet Angron sees fully functioning worlds and mini-empires where humans are safe put to the sword in the sane way Chaos worshipping and human enslaving Xenos civilizations are. If the goal of the Imperium is safety for the human species, why are these peaceful civilizations not simply allied to the Imperium, rather than conquered and having their culture destroyed? Why does a rational, scientific philosophy place such reverence on the base human form and abhore mutations when science acknowledges that mutations made that "sacred" form in the first place? Why does places humanity over every other lifeform? 3) Servitors 4) Lorgar also dedicated himself towards reconstruction after conquest, to such a degree that he made beautiful, highly complient and loyal worlds, yet the Emperor ultimately punishes him for doing that (Lorgar reflects that he did not really hide his worship and conversion of worlds towards the Imperial Cult, which he took as implicit approval; the Emperor makes it clear his speed was the straw that broke the camel's back) 5) As he said, the only difference between him and Russ is that he acknowledges what they really are
@@francesco8000 a point that i particularly disagree with is your OG post, there were at least some places that would've been better off without the Imperium (the interex, to name one.) also, a lot of what you say doesn't exactly refute any of what angron says, but you are calling him a hypocrite which i absolutely agree with. except for the chaos bit. he didn't particularly want to be ascended, lorgar kinda just did that to him
I love how an enraged berserker has a good point to make here: how can Russ claim to be a moral, upright man when he serves at the beck and call of a tyrant above all other tyrants? Angron at least has no delusions: those were all shattered when the Emperor stole him away from his family on Nuceria.
umm that was lorgar he wanted to die in nuceria he was in nuceria around battle and with his brother and sister's skulls on him lorgar made him into a demon without his consent
scenes like this is why i sometimes think conrad curze despite his insanity had a point. at the end of the day the great crusade was just the way to get the emperor's plan for humanity in action. no matter what the long game was, no matter if it was better inside the imperium or not, the great crusade was a war of expansion plain and simple. all primarchs did brutal and cruel actions under orders as that is the reality of war and tyranny. at least conrad curze had no delusions that he was anything other than a monster and a tool.
Angron like: "I know i am a fucking monster, i have these nails in my head ! So ... what is your excuse, Russ ? Why are you killing women and children ?"
Damn…like goddamn
Spitting hot fire here!!!!🔥🔥🔥
Because Russ is a dog and a coward. I hate him and the hype around him so much " But, but SPACE VIKING ARE BADASS "
This woke hammer, they don't care that men kill women
after the burning of prospero... yea angron makes a pretty good point
Pretty rich coming from the guys called "WorldEaters" I really doubt women and children weren't killed by Angron, nails or not. And they don't have the excuse of misfire, as they prefer close quarters combat, so they would know whom they are targeting.
Angron's corruption is so tragic because even with the butcher's nails, he's really eloquent and he spits straight facts.
the heartbreaking thing is, right up until he gets turned into a khornate demon that morality really does shine through in a lot of ways. To varying extents of course, but still. It almost disapears once the transformation's done if I recall correctly.
The nails could break him, but they couldn't change him. At his core he is still the empath of the Primarchs.
I swear, every time Angron debated one of his brothers, my dude had Main Character dialogue!
Pre demon Angron always roasted his brothers...
He was to be the Emperors Empathy, instead he became his bloodlust. Angron could have been better than them, better than them all.
@@generalnawaki He and Vulkan would have had similar outlooks. Perhaps brothers among brothers.
Angron: "i was a slave and my brain was mutilated"
Robute: "child"
Until he had his brain circumcised.@@generalnawaki
I love the fact that Angron was supposed to be the great peace maker, but was ruined by the nails.
Not really
He was supposed to be similar to Alpharious in a sense.
To sense the emotions and doubts that his brothers would conceal.
With that he would know the loyalty of his men, that the emperor’s gamble and the doubt of those when meeting him and that on command he could doom the imperium and how much of a risk that Big E was taking.
Instead he acted in spite and rage and it grew into a scar.
@@silent_stalker3687 Yes, the great peace maker. He could take his gladiators pain from them and allow them to sleep. He could sense emotions as well.
In my head canon angron was the one destined to be war master.
The only one that could understand the others and handle them
@silent_stalker3687 the nails took his mind and his primarch aura/powers
@@silent_stalker3687why did he give his legion the butcher nails?
man i love those rare moments of lucidity angron has, if not for the nails he'd actually be a dangerously eloquent revoluctionary leader
"We offer them freedom!" Russ really believes in the Imperium.
Based and Russ pilled
His perspective is so....human, i genuinely believe he had the aspect of empathy because he's not only self aware but also understanding of the evil he's actively inflicting upon others.
I can easily see him being best buds with the Khan and ironically enough Vulcan if the Butchers nails was never forced onto him.
I always saw the 30k books as a Greek tragedy, and no one was done dirtier than Angron....
Even with the nails, his empathy still shined through.....sometimes lol
When i was 14 years i was in love with sanguinius, the perfection, now that im 35 and reading with difficult english true lore,not the few italian books or codex bad translate,i understand Angron,his umanity,even with the nails,and this man is my favorite primarch.
Pure love
Love him or hate him, Angron’s right. The Emperor’s a hypocrite who never had to face a judge for his crimes. If he had reflected on any of his mistakes, he might not have been stuck where he is now.
Heresy! The emperor is on the throne because that is his sacrifice to save humanity! Emperor willing, it is all according to his plan
Maybe not judgment, but karma is a b**** for the corpse emperor.
Well, he was a hard line atheist, what do you expect?
In all seriousness, it was all due to the threat of Chaos. Without it, The Emperor would have been happy with providing each world with enough technology to regain their past glory at their own pace along with a network of reliable communications and trade routes.
At the end of the day, he only wanted to wage war so there could be no more war ever again, that's why he considered himself a soldier as opposed to a warrior
@@Halfort57 Emphasis on the 'hard-line' there. He's not just a hard-line atheist, he's a militant one. Equally as tyrannical as those who would impose their religions onto people, not more, not less, equally as morally revolting.
-- To be fair though, I think if we consider his worldview on how he views the Warp in general then he's not entirely wrong. To him it's not like the Chaos Gods are *literal* gods, they're just gestalts. Entities. Beholden to their nature like mortal men and women are. He just failed to account for the fact that if these entities are benefitting from the collective unconscious of humanity, that you can't really 100% control what goes on in the warp.
It was in his eyes, -- one of the most qualified people to speak on it, being an exceptionally powerful psyker that he was and having firsthand experience with all four of them -- that they course they took was the only potential way to deal with the warp in any meaningful degree. Was it moral? Hell no. But it paints a picture of what his intentions were far clearer than him being a slaving-bastard (which is what he is still, but not for the reasons Angron is assuming here) or an infallible, all-knowing, all-correct paragon of moral virtue (like so many Loyalists, some primarchs included, wanted to ascribe onto him).
After all... the Emperor's a human being. He can be multifaceted. He can be bad, and good, and everywhere inbetween. Angron can be right here, but his own morality pointed at himself doesn't look upon him favourably. And while he **knows** that, it makes it much easier for Leman to dismiss him. It's all very, very well put together.
I would object the emperor wasn't as
Hypocritical as the meme say.
He's a cold blodded ass but he never lied about it.
How could he if he send his childrens to butcher and enslave people's.
Sure the end justify the means is his argument but he never really lied about it.
It was people's like leaman and guilliman who convinced themselves there was more to it.
Conrad was the pure embodiment of it.
Leaman was basically a dig happy to kill.
Guilliman was an Hypocritical ass talking about honor while as angron say it feed the slave trade that is the emperium.
The khan who is the only smart one joined just because he knew he had no choice he even hated the impérial truth
Only other ones who's an Hypocritical ass is corvus
Sanguinius did it to save peoples so I supose he just has the same logic lion is a tool to be used
Angron is the only one that perfectly describe the emperium
I can't help but feel Angron won here. He had real arguments while all Russ had were baseless accusations and insults like "heretic" or "you are lost". Russ basically just said "you are wrong" without trying to prove or explain why.
Because he couldn't, and it's intentional irony that the atheist loyalist says heretic and appeals to force while the butcher has a philosophy pretty close and less compromised than Corax
@@thewayfarer8849 Yeah. Though, if I remeber correctly, when Angron tryed to pull his philosophy next time with Guilliman, the Big Blue did better than Russ.
@oldy4080 did better, doesn't mean he won
@@nella9115Sure he did. Angron was a waste of space.
@@Ares99999 he didn't win, angron battered him 😂
Angron is underrated... Almost every accusation he makes here is the truth. Sure in the grand picture what the Emperor is doing might be necessary. But as Angron the Empath himself says, without the nails he would not serve.
What was the true intended purpose of Angron? And what was the Emperor hoping to save, when he saved him against his will?
This is why I went Chaos
@@jackmyers8687 Because Chaos is so much better, right?
@phillipgouthier5525 that, and they don't have to follow that silly codex, or put up with Primaris rubbish
@jackmyers8687 yeah, right? It almost makes losing yourself to an eternal blood rage, becoming hellishly irredeemable hedonistic degenerate, becoming a literal sack of pus and disease, or living with the eternal fear of becoming a chaos spawn (even if you did everything right), worth it.
@@phillipgouthier5525 Glad we agree 👍
I have no idea what a voice actor would have to do for me to imagine Angron with any other voice than this.
Your angron and khârn are absolutely phenomenal. No one has captured the personality of angron better.
That laugh, and the grunting grate in Angron's voice sets a clear idea he's like a chipped statue. Good work!
I can't believe everything in this channel is voiced by you. It's all so damn good, so professional. What an amazing broad range you got. If GW had half a brain they would hire you to make audiobooks.
This is one of my favorite parts of the whole warhammer 40k setting. It gives angron real depth. He was delt the worsted hand out of all the primarchs and when he finally meets big E his father, he still didn't catch a break. The tragedy of Angron's stories almost embody the setting
I love seeing Heresy interactions between Angron and loyalist primarchs because in every instance Angron pulls out facts and statistics and a signed copy of Piotr Kropotkin's "The Conquest of Bread" and the loyalists' response is invariably "um, no? wrong. cringe heresy? 👉🤪 you're a bad person so i dont need to listen to your points. nope"
I dud not expect Kropotkin to be mentioned here lmao totally agree
Bars
Honestly, without the butchers nails I honestly believe he would of went down the same route as the lost primarchs due to his compassion and while Vulcan has compassion at the end of day it’s only compassion for people who are willing to obey.
Meanwhile if your a traitor or Xenos then Vulkans a drake, that will burn your world to ash
Hell i honestly think he would have been the most apposed to the emperor’s xenophobia, and i think angron would go out of his way to try and help innocent xeno species hade from getting massacred by the imperium, after all calling xenos very existence a “crime” and also saying that conquering the galaxy was humanity’s “birth right”
Would be things nail-free angron would hate, what did an alien species who never knew humanity existed do to deserve extinction?, what did humanity do to deserve the galaxy over other species?
angron suffered at the hands of humanity’s cruelty, and no such cruelty should have the right to rule the galaxy
I think to angron the only birth right he would believe in is the right to be free
In great crusade Imperium had policy against aliens that if they weren't threat to Imperium they could live as protectorate but that all depended on Primarch/Commander choice. There are mentions of them in Cawl novel. Same situation is actually in current imperium, there are xenos that live next to humans and even trade with Imperium. But it all depends on who they meet with actually. There is Interex in Great Crusade that was wiped out due to Erebus and Adarnians that were killed due them being too useful for humans.
Let's be honest; ADB did work making pretty simple evil characters have great moments. Night Lords, Curze, Angron, Abbadon are not compelling at a surface look, and he writes so well you feel bad for utterly irredeemable people
I still think his greatest feat was taking the Word Bearers - a legion decried for so long as being 2d cardboard villains, and making them protagonists that a reader can understand the motivations of, even if they may not agree with them. His work with the Night Lords in this was rightly lauded, but the first heretic was an absolutely next level piece of work.
honestly i always feel the worst about the thousand sons because they genuinely had no choice to fall. like even if the events at prospero had gone differently they were still all dying slowly due to the gene flaw, and so even if russ hadn't been retarded, further down the line tzeetch would have made his offer, and magnus in his arrogance and desperation could have easily accepted it if the alternative was to let his legion die.
Angron was kindness, our freedom, our love and our forgiveness and a last chance a true choice to give into the imperium not to fight but happily be apart of something greater and it was stolen from us robbed from us and will never see what could've been the greatest primearch to lead humanity and that's why i cry reading this character he never deserved what happend to him he was the greatest of humanity, Angron will always be the most human of primearchs
I really like how pre-demon Angron isn't just a screaming barbarian troglodyte.
He may be the least reasonable man in the room, and he may be clinically insane, but he can hand verbal beatdowns as well as he hands actual beatdowns.
They keep saying that Angron is crazy but you know what...maybe he was the only one to see it for what it was at face value...
that the emperor is an evil slave making monster, who cares not for any of the people under his rule, only that they bow and 'comply' or die
Was just rewatching your videos today, and here's a gift like that! Thanks, your work is astonishing, as always
My dude, I've spent several hours tonight consuming every 40k vid you've made. Brilliant performance, words do not do justice to your talent, you need way more subs, my guy.
If I were to suggest, a snippent from Last church done by you would be splendid. I am dying to see your rendition of Uriah. (and it's a popular enough story to get views :P)
Angron has a good point, from his perspective of course because the emperor in his "wisdom" didn't tell the primarchs about the chaos, which explains his tyranny. However, Angron's actions towards his sons are not much better, knowing the weight of the butcher's nails
The problem is that telling them about chaos inherently opens them up to corruption.
Chaos doesn’t need anything but the briefest moment of lapse in judgment to infect and corrupt a soul. The emperor made the right call.
@@Crazieyboy15 the issue is that they would be open to corruption regardless if he told them or nor
But by not telling them, they wete utterly undefended
@@Crazieyboy15
Would Fulgrim have picked up that sword if he knew about Chaos? Would Magnus have trusted the Warp so much? Would Horus have ever allowed the very much chaosy Warrior's Lodge to thrive? If Kurze had actually been told about the nature of the future and how Chaos fucks with you, would he have gone so far down the path we see?
Also Lorgar would probably have shot Kor Phaeron and Erebus pretty early on when he realized what they were actually worshipping.
The Emperor left His Son's completely ignorant and undefended against an existential threat that corrupts the very nature of a person, and was then surprised when some of them end up corrupted.
If Horus knew more about Chaos and how to fight it, they likely would have had the Interex as allies as well, so even greater potential power.
@AveSicarius Fulgrim, yes, dude heard the whispers of the demon and thought it was his subconscious. Like bro, who thinks like that? Magnus knew full well the dangers of the Warp and did it anyway because he was arrogant to think he knew better. With Horus, the Warrior Lodges started off looking benign and beneficial, probably not very "chaosy" either. And Kurze was already too far gone to actually listen to anyone, not his fault, just his lack of an upbringing.
*edit* You're underestimating how insidious Erebus and Kor Phaeron were.
The thing is, Angron didn’t initially force the Nails onto them. After Gehenna, they started to augment themselves. Angron later found out, and decided to enforce it legionwide as more of a punishment. Slave of Nuceria shows this to us.
After De’Shea, however, shows us that Angron, when the Nails weren’t biting, truly loved his sons. He named them his Eaters of Worlds, and accepted the weight of the golden shackles the Emperor forced upon him for their sakes. But as time went on, and his mangled brain began to die, to the point he legitimately would never have survived the Horus Heresy one way or the other, he became more and more insane, searching for serenity, even as the Nails stole it from him or gave it to him in battle, and his demigod-like form stole it from him with every swing of his axes.
Angron be spitting I swear.
That is some EXCELLENT Russ cosplay from Guilliman!
Maybe if the Emperor told them about the horrors of the warp and how they manifest even in seemingly benign cultures if left unsupervised, this scene would not have happened...
Or if Angron was allowed to die a hero, rathan than made live long enough to become the villain.
Chaos becomes more powerful as more people know and whorship them. The emperor wanted to save the material universe by forcing every single one of his subjects to deny gods essentially starving them. This was the reason why for example Khorne was not getting more powerful even with the carnage of the great crusade.
@@Noname-sy3dubut at the same time he was unwittingly creating a new chaos god, a god of unbelief.
@@Halfort57I mean. Its not like he knew about that.
@@Halfort57what do you mean? what chaos god?
@@Noname-sy3du
Telling the Primarch's would result in them believing in them? How lol? The Primarch's given knowledge of Chaos are infinitely more protected and more able to do their job at preventing such things down the line. ALL the Primarch's fell because they did not know what they were getting into, had they been told, they would have acted very differently.
Chaos also gets more powerful from massive excess of emotions, like what happens when your superpowered transhuman son's get influenced by it because they don't understand what they are doing and end up burning half the Galaxy down.
The Horus Heresy only works if the Emperor is stupid and shortsighted in many ways, and so He is, it is the issue with having many prewritten points in a narrative, you have to write around them, and that doesn't mesh well with supposedly hypercompetent characters.
I’m beginning to think that the butchers nails made Angron more aware and open minded than his brothers
People seem to forget why big E is doing this, it's not like he wants to, but he literally foresaw humanity's doom.
People also often forget that humanity tends to run face first into the brick wall of destiny in the attempt to run away from it.
The emperor literally made the military force of not just the loyalists but the heretics as well, and Angron and Kurze were knives he should’ve seen coming.
Hell after the primarchs were THROWN THROUGH THE WARP he should’ve expected the very real possibility of corruption either by the trip or the destinations.
Which make him even more batshit crazy than Conrad.
@@aguyontheinternet9095 What's your point? Big E should've just accept fate and let humanity die? Lmao
@@Warmaster2001 I wouldn't say crazy, but out of touch for sure
I love Angron here.
I don't like Leman Russ impression here. He is too bland, too high-heels. Leman in the books is a wolf. He is supposed to be FERAL.
No. Leman wants people to think he's feral, but he's not. He wants people to think he's a simple barbarian, but he's not. Though I do agree with you on his voice actor here.
I agree however it could be argued that this is how Angron saw Russ. He is supposed to be a noble pretending to be a savage and this exchange could be illustrated as a highrider draped in wolf furs lecturing a rabid hound.
@@kaalsevulom Aye, very true! 🐺
he is right about everything, loved this part from Betrayer, except the part where once again clings to the nails. "why would I become a better person when I can blame everything on the nails ?"
He's saying if he didn't have the nails then he wouldn't have served the emperor
When you have a torture device in your head that forces you to be a monster, and your brain is constantly getting mangled and and butchered only to heal and continue the cycle only with ever cycle the pain becomes worse, the rage becomes harder to resist,
It’s like a bunch of rusted saws going back and forth instead you’re skull and constantly hacking your brain
Angron’s experience is torture
The nails also basically make it impossible to speak poorly about the nails.
Let’s remember that parts of angron brain are missing
I've always hated leman and reading a thousand sons with betrayer made me hate him more
Magnus, is that you?
Russ is and idiotic monster who thinks he's a hero... No Magnus against of he wasn't a living bullshit
"Deception" "False information" does it mean anything to you?
The problem Is how little deception was needed, Russ already hated Magnus and when he showed no intent to fight Russ still went full dogshit brain even with Valdor saying him to don't do bullshit.
Horus set that up
amazing!
It's worth noting that Angron didn't make his sons get the nails, they did it out of their own volition
no, they resisted it at first. and when the librarius started dying messily because of complications due to the nails, Angron decreed that either they remove the nails or be executed, mind you removing the nails is basically impossible without killing the subject
No, they did not all get the Butcher's Nails out of their own volition.
Angron ordered the reverse-engineering efforts on the Butcher's Nails and explicitly ordered all World Eaters to get them and that they should be incorporated into the Space Marine creation process.
_"In the aftermath of this slaughter (Ghenna Massacre), the World Eaters were formally censured by the Emperor of Mankind and commanded to cease the implantation of the "Butcher's Nails" cortical implants._
_But the Primarch Angron paid little heed to the Emperor's dictates and ordered the work of the XIIth Legion's Techmarines and Apothecaries to continue with the mass production and implantation of the deadly cortical implants known as the Butcher's Nails in all of his gene-sons."_
Mago's rebellion is just one example of World Eaters refusing the Nails, their refusal wasn't exactly respected...
The only World Eaters exempt from the nails were the Librarians, and only because none survived its effects (which they only learned after many attempts).
@@sqocks8254why would Angron do that? He knows how terrible the nails are.
Damn he spoke to Russ like that......
Damn who let the blud cook!!!!
Not a world eaters fan and absolutely not an angron fan but he’s telling a hard truth here
I never thought I'd hear the word Heretic come out of Leman's mouth.
Angron was 100% speaking the truth here.
I do love me some Angron
I wonder if Angron's original role before the nails was being Big E's moral anchor. Someone to tell him straight, "no, this is wrong"
This is my Angron
Leman didn't bother giving him a proper response, probably cause he was himself never told of the past or present, i don't think even leman knows why the great crusade is happening
Angron seems more reasonable than everyone else
Angron won this fight... even if the Space Wolves killed Angron before he axed Leman, Angron would still win. He wants to die. So there is literally no way he can lose in this fight. He dies, he wins. He kills, Leman he wins.
You can also say Angron already lost, he wins? He doesn’t care hell keep killing just because, he dies ? He doesn’t care he did what he wanted killed as he pleased
@@pedropierre9594 He "lost" the moment the nails went into his head.
Angron is the most honest Primarch. And his truth is his victory
@@jackmyers8687 if he was honest he would have taken his own life. Hes the guy who bitches about life, doesnt do anything to solve and wants to drag everyone down to his level because he suffered. I can't care less for characters like this buckets of pissing and moaning
Angrons nails may have ruined him and turned him to madness. His actions ruined his sons and tempt them all to chaos…but the man spoke nothing but facts here.
Wait, let him cook
The Emperor denied and rejected his humanity, his flaws and the thought that he could be wrong….he was little more than a imperialist and dictator thinking only he and his idea of what the galaxy and humanity should be and nothing else was correct.
The Emperor was like any one man claiming to be the savior….arrogant, self righteous, and despite his hate for religion had a god-complex. He never allowed anyone to question him and in the end he made Chaos become much worse than it was and simply created a hellhole for humanity as well as his own downfall.
The Imperium is a sickness, a sickness built and then further rotted by a hypocrite. Also I’m gonna call bullshit on the people who say shit like “oh but the Emperor knew what was going to happen which is why he did what he did” that’s just lazy writing and in all honesty is more of a dismissal of his flaws.
In other words….the Emperor was a reactionary who shot himself in the foot every step of the way.
And to think the Red Angel would have been the most fiercely loyal of the Emperor's sons if things went different.
Actually... that would 100% have been Lorgar. Lorgar and the Word Bearers make the Black Templars look like atheists.
Lorgar quite literally worshipped his father. He was rasied on a Chaos undivided world and when the Emperor arrived. Lorgar immediatly declared his complete and unquestioning loyalty and service to Him. Lorgar put up with a lot of shit, *EVEN THE RAZING OF MONARHCIA* was not his final blow. Lorgar was on his knees, pleading with Magnus as to what he should do, where should be turn after this display of discipline. Even there, Lorgar was still clinging to the last shreds of loyalty to his father, but when Magnus gave him the cold shoulder and left him to suffer, and by extension - The Emperor - Lorgar turned to the only voices that would give him comfort.
Angron and Big E would be beefing everytime they crossed paths if he didn't have the butchers nail. Angron wouldn't stand for what the Imperium is doing.
Angron was right here
Comment for the great god of knowledge in all forms
Angron, 40k's Troll lol
I have to admit such honesty from Angron is unexpected. The sad part is that despite the millions of people he and his sons slaughtered and every world he drowned in blood he's right.
What did Leman Russ to Magnus and his world after he made a "mistake"? He chose to slaughter everyone on Prospero; not only the Thousand Sons but also every man, women and child. He offered no freedom, he brought death to everyone and forced Magnus to become a traitor in order to save himself, his sons and his world.
The difference between Russ and Angron is that Angron can't think rational anymore since he got the nails which slowly destroy his brain and turn every non violent thought into unbearable pain.
Russ on the other hand actively chose to kill Magnus, destroy his world and slaughter his sons as well as every civilian.
Russ chose to become an executioner, Angron does it because his sanity does no longer exist and it's the only thing left in his life.
I mean, yeah angron is right in this particular situation.
The only argument Leman Russ had was that angron had his sons implanted with the butchers nails as well.
Which in and of itself was only half true.
The world eaters made the choice themselves to develop a version of the butchers nails for the astartes and implant it into themselves to be closer to their primarch. Afaik angron never forced them to do it but also didn't stop them from doing it either. Only later on did he begin to promote the butchers nails.
My anarchist king Angron.
Is this the voice acting in the audio books? Or does this channel do there own interpretation? Either way it's incredible!
All my own work and interpretation of the text. I would kill to voice an official audio book though.
@@RufusJuice the emotion you manage to put into angron is incredible. Keep up the amazing work. Hope the black library finds your channel, and gets you to voice the next books!
Wow!
What's the name of this epic song???
With Angron I always have a hard time because I agree with 9/10 of his statement and then get lost at "therefore be as awful and hypocritical as possible and get enslaved to chaos"
Wasn't angron tricked into daemonhood by Lorgar when he was near death and couldn't think straight?
Im paraphrasing cause that's how i vaguely remember it.
@@PirateFrog. Somewhat. He was also driven mad with rage because Guilliman taunted him and broke his friends' skulls while fighting...which was really Angron's fault, because he was wearing them on his chest while fighting a Primarch wearing a power fist, so they got knocked off and stepped on.
@@PirateFrog. I heard he wasn't really tricked but some last ditch effort on lorgars part and angron couldn't really fight back. If I had the motivation I would read the books. I like angron, but looking at the comments he unfortunately attracts people who lack empathy. Angron doesn't see a point in any of this and the people who could pull him out of his nihilism are dead. Choas is power without purpose and since this is the GRIMDARK future. Any one using chaos for good is non-existent
What I don’t like about Angron is that he exists to justify the Emperor’s evils. Lemme explain.
It would not be unusual for the Emperor to kill his servents once they are done with it. He did it with the Thunder Warriors. He did it with the 2nd and 11th legion. And he had plans to probably do the same to the Navigators when the Webway Project was completed.
Angron had a tragic life. We all know it. But most of the decisions when he was a Primarch was really just him being forced and act in a certain way. Like Perturabo, but unlike him, Angron actually enjoyed the slaughter and the killing. He is a sadist, at least in the fury in the nails. Not like the traditional slaaneshi sadist obviously, but the khornate “I will make you feel pain before death” sadist.
So, we get a moment just before pre heresy, where the Emperor having already erased the 2nd and the 11th and going “Well, I mean. That boy with the nails in his head does kill well, so I can’t just get rid of him.”
He doesn’t care. If it were as simple as “What have they done to you my boy?”, the Emperor would have landed his custodes, taken Nuceria and burn their treacherous, dark relic of a planet down. But he did not. Instead, he abducted an emotionally unstable and hysterical man, whos emotions are only sated when in combat. Even the Emperor taking him out back and mercy killing him would have been a greater good to the universe then if he gave him a full army. Kharn and his brothers were desperate enablers.
Angron is not a well written character after he gets picked up from Nuceria, for then he becomes a puppet. A statistic of 12 in the Emperor’s armies. And he does not care.
But Angron cares. He cares because he wishes it was his death that was met on Nuceria. Now, the Universe suffers because of this mistake.
Angron may be ‘justified’, and even ‘sympathetic’, but he is far from right. The writers now treat him as this largely 2-D daemon shadow that only exists to kill. And that is a darn tragedy.
Also, if you want to know why he is far from right, I have one critical comparison. Remember how he treated the high riders? It was pure respect and duty. Remember how he treated the World Eaters? Slaves. Ironically.
Russ was not the person to should have talken to him. Not Gulliman. Not even someone who might be able to understand a fraction of the pain like Perturabo, Mortarion or anyone. It was the Emperor himself. But like a deadbeat dad, he dabbed out and we basically never see the two interact in a way that is meaningful.
Shouldnt leman russ's voice be...idk deeper and more "wulflike" or is this legacy of TTS messing with my head?
i kinda agree ngl, but VA still did a good job
Russ didn t offer any real argument here at all
No jo... he has a point...
One of the main reasons why Angron is one of my top favorite Primarchs
Ignroring the obvious fact that being in the imperium is generally better than being outside for humans considering all the threats in the galaxy (even before Tyranids and Necrons became an issue) and the fact that he ignored the mutilation of his legion Angron is again pointing about how unlucky he is to the wrong man.
Leman Russ was dropped on a primitive world where people are larping as vikings, wolves are bigger than a horse and there are literally warhammer fantasy trolls roaming the land.
Angron should have been the healer, the paladin of the primarchs but the butcher's nail turned his gift into pointless bitterness.
He could walk into Ultramar and he would still find something to complain about the way people are living.
Can you actually point to a single thing he's said that was false?
@@Alzir-n9m Ok let's try:
1) they don't fight for ideal but for land, wealth and men
Kinda true but misleading, the crusade needs those things, that's true, but the final objective is to create a galaxy where humanity can live safe from aliens and chaos (he doesn't know the 2' so it's ok).
2)he is correct about the fact that every planet has to submit to the empire even if they are granted autonomy later
3)He decides to completely ignore the fact that he mutilates and abuse his legion, making him arguably worse than the emperor in that aspect
4)He is ordered to conquer worlds, that is true, but it's his choice to leave them ruined instead of working to reconstruction like Guilliman does, he destroys and he enjoys it (thanks to the nails) but he doesn't care about trying to fix what he did and instead he simply complains
5)in the end he never actually cared about killing a tyrant to free people because he either worked for the emperor or worked for Horus\chaos gods so he was just trading a tyrant for another
1) That is the ideal that the Crusade justifies itself with, yet Angron sees fully functioning worlds and mini-empires where humans are safe put to the sword in the sane way Chaos worshipping and human enslaving Xenos civilizations are. If the goal of the Imperium is safety for the human species, why are these peaceful civilizations not simply allied to the Imperium, rather than conquered and having their culture destroyed? Why does a rational, scientific philosophy place such reverence on the base human form and abhore mutations when science acknowledges that mutations made that "sacred" form in the first place? Why does places humanity over every other lifeform?
3) Servitors
4) Lorgar also dedicated himself towards reconstruction after conquest, to such a degree that he made beautiful, highly complient and loyal worlds, yet the Emperor ultimately punishes him for doing that (Lorgar reflects that he did not really hide his worship and conversion of worlds towards the Imperial Cult, which he took as implicit approval; the Emperor makes it clear his speed was the straw that broke the camel's back)
5) As he said, the only difference between him and Russ is that he acknowledges what they really are
@@francesco8000
a point that i particularly disagree with is your OG post, there were at least some places that would've been better off without the Imperium (the interex, to name one.)
also, a lot of what you say doesn't exactly refute any of what angron says, but you are calling him a hypocrite which i absolutely agree with. except for the chaos bit. he didn't particularly want to be ascended, lorgar kinda just did that to him
I love how an enraged berserker has a good point to make here: how can Russ claim to be a moral, upright man when he serves at the beck and call of a tyrant above all other tyrants? Angron at least has no delusions: those were all shattered when the Emperor stole him away from his family on Nuceria.
And the he proceeded and became a literal demon. So much for liking freedom bozo.
umm that was lorgar he wanted to die in nuceria he was in nuceria around battle and with his brother and sister's skulls on him lorgar made him into a demon without his consent
Angry Ron is unfathomably based.
Magnus did nothing wrong? How about Angron was completely justified?
scenes like this is why i sometimes think conrad curze despite his insanity had a point. at the end of the day the great crusade was just the way to get the emperor's plan for humanity in action. no matter what the long game was, no matter if it was better inside the imperium or not, the great crusade was a war of expansion plain and simple. all primarchs did brutal and cruel actions under orders as that is the reality of war and tyranny. at least conrad curze had no delusions that he was anything other than a monster and a tool.
Angron is a hypocrite!
so is the emperor. at least angron is aware that he is a hippocrite and doesn't shy away from admitting it
@@sovietunion7643 and that makes it better
@@durrangodsgrief6503I mean yeah it does. Especially when it’s associated with the nails forced into his brain.
Total character disparity. In no known universe does Russ sounded weaker than Angron in a promo. Shame on you
It's from the book tho blame aurther
This is why I like Angron and dislike Russ a lot
Pin me plz ❤ from Pakistan🇵🇰
Voice acting so off.