I think the ppl who dump Zieten in the trash can does so because of her looks, not her abilities. A solid battlecruiser for sure and good at what she does.
I fully admit, I never said she is a bad ship, just that she is ugly and doesn't fit the rest of the mid and high tiers in the line, as in (using RN terms) A-B-X-Y turret layouts
But zieten is not a good ship to be fair. It eats tons of damage by the nose, but the actual meta are not for brawling ships, thanks to submarines and tons of planes. Otherwise it is a great ship, when the best conditions are met.
I think part of the problem is that she’s by herself in terms of the sudden change in turret arrangement; least with the German CA line you at least get some practice with Konigsberg/Nurnberg before Roon pops up by comparison.
Zieten is honestly a solid Battlecruiser. Yes the downsides are her odd turret arrangement and she doesn't feel as tanky compared to other german BCs. However her guns reload faster than any tier 8 bb, has overmatch advantage thanks to the caliber, nice torps, and of course her secondaries shred everyone to pieces who get in range
My issue with Zieten is that, to me, she felt worse than the P. Heinrich. Felt worse to play. Im sure 1 to 1 she is probably better but when you play your tier, she feels less effective
The Zieten performs remarkably well in operations too (PVE player perspective here). Compared to other German bbs, the only main disadvantage of Zieten is that the armour is not as good as the other tier 8s but the rest is either as good as or straight better than the other tier 8 ships. She's uglier too, but that's kinda subjective 😂
@@Joshua-fi4ji Mh the gun layout surely is let's say more unique to Zieten compared to the other bbs and bcs of the German family, but to me it has never been an hindrance as much as the fact that your bow is only 25 mm (or was it 26?). Again i mostly play operations and there your main opponents (as in most of the enemy ships) are cruisers and dds which shoot mostly HE. There are bbs that can overmatch Zieten bow, but are limited to a couple of instances... Four perhaps: Musashi in Newport, Tirpitz, Bayern (at least 2) and Gneisenau in the escort the Ruan operation (don't recall the name) and the Missouri in Narai and another operation whose name I of course have forgotten.
@@paulthebored6782 Fair enough. I was only trying to say that it might be a reason why people don't like her, since not everyone can adjust their playstyle. I'm still on Heinrich so am not an authority.
Zieten and Gneisenau... Fully agree and play them regularly. Stopped at King George V and prioritised other BB's, German and US. Will eventually get to Monarch as well. Disapointed in the the British so far. Also have Rooke and Hawke. Also stopped there.
KGV and Monarch and Lion had a big nerf to her citadel size a while ago, but KGV is still and Lion are still decent. Queen Elizabeth and below are all solid BBs. Monarch is really frustratingly Inaccurate and the hull is fragile, Lions hull feels nice and the guns hit hard but they're still inaccurate and Conqueror is strong, but it's not super OP like it used to be. I like playing Conqueror with the legendary Mod, but without it it's not fun. The standard rudder shift, citadel size and HE lead to quite boring gameplay. The mod almost makes her play like Vanguard. As a whole, the line is not the most fun and legendary mods cost RB points these days.
@@p_nillybrawling is no longer META in randoms. You will find the going tough at high tiers with full secondary build unless you happen to land in airship escort.
When i play Zieten... i always get focused down on whatever side i go... Cuz if u play full secondaries u just melt cruiser/dds in just a few seconds, its crazy... but mostly u just get burned down first :D
I think he attitude is....Zieten, gonna be a 2ndry build. Kill it with fire before it gets anywhere near me. So you are a priority target to some extent.
The fact that you had a battleship BROADSIDE to you for ages and you didn't switch to AP shows that you know and understand exactly why the Monarch is held in such low regard. Pretty much every other battleship, you would switch to AP and DELETE the broadside BB at that range.
I got the Florida a while ago. Didn’t know about the dispersion gimmick. Played it like a regular BB and thought it sucked. So after watching your video played it again kept it at range and did 130k dmg. Ok I get it now.
That's a good list SLM. I personally love the Florida (home state bias). It has amazing gunnery for tier 7 but it's so easy to citadel through the nose if it has to get point-blank with other battleships. I jokingly dubbed the Zieten "Die Zikkurat" due to its "structure", but it's a solid battlecruiser when used appropriately.
Gniesenau was the first ship I slapped a permanent booster on and I've had her ever since. Problem is I am guaranteed bottom tier 4/5 games so it doesn't get to shine as it should. Great vid though. Zeiten is also pretty boss. I would say i56 too but I'll get crucified if I try to explain why i like a sub so much
Reasons why these are sleepers: 5. Gneisenau is the only ship in the line who can reliably miss a broadside Musashi at close range. 4. Monarch has nothing unique to it. Unlike the Lion and Conqueror, it lacks superheal, and unlike QE and KGV, who either have volume of fire or big guns for their tier and who are also historical ships, Monarch has nothing. 3. Florida? Hyuga is better in almost every single way. Better rate of fire, much better durability and armour and has a reload boost. They possess the same accuracy, afaik. Also, it is a historical ship unlike Florida. 2.Mutsu, I think, is the only one who really deserves to be in this list. It really is phenomenal. 1.Tier per tier, Zieten is, I think, the worst ship in her line from tier 7 and up. Heinrich is much better for her tier, so is Ruprecht and Schlieffen. Zieten is pretty okay, but it is usually outperformed by Bismarcks and Tirpitzes performance-wise, if they are played by the same player. Conclusion, I believe this video could be done for Mutsu alone.
Kansas. Probably the single most overpowered tier 8 in game, even including premium ones - yet rarely praised by the community. 12x insane guns, top tier armor, small superstructure, 40 sec heal, fastest turn rate of all T8 BBs... It's just broken (69% WR over 163 battles), yet so rarely seen...
Gneisenau is a fucking beast. You need a 21 captain on it and definitly the captains perk, which increases speed if not seen by enemy. Add a speed flag and voilá - you run out many cruisers. You have Bismarck guns, just one turret less, but well, its a T7 BB. Secondary build in addition and bang :) If I play a CA/CL/DD or most other BB's and face an agressive Gneisenau player who is decent - I mostly have to escape, its terrifying.
FFS the biggest surprise about this video was the fact I had to watch the damn thing 3 times. The first few times was being distracted by thoughts in my head. Like "These ain't sleeper ships, I didn't see a single ship in this that carries a large amount of people on a voyage to a new star system." I'm betting at least I'm not the only one to even for a sec have a "LOL this ain't a sleeper ship" sci-fi moment.
The Mutsu has lost some of it's fun as power crept effects has made it more difficult to play. The biggest issue is her soft hull when she gets shoved into T7 and T8 games. The MM has a huge impact on this ship because of the hull. One thing that may help is in T7 and T8 games use her spotter and play further back, not forgetting to zigzag (when your spotted) in case some BB has homed in on you. If your in a T5-T6 game play closer in and stay close to your division.
Schroder is the ultimate sleeper. not a ton of them out there. my absolute favorite ship in the game. stealthy, fast, most secondaries in game, 305 mm guns with good reload, hydros, good armor. ship eats agirs for breakfast, can go toe to toe with any cruiser at tier and even most tier 10s. love love love her!
I unlocked the tier 9 Battlecruiser above Zeiten long ago, but i enjoy Zeiten so much, i havent bothered buying it yet. My Zeiten has over 640k xp sitting on it. I did 99% of that in operations.
I still consider Gneisenau the most fun to play of entire line. At T5-6 you have to deal with low accuracy (or dispersion, or sigma, cant remeber which one makes your salvo miss the target at all cardinal directions at the same time) and low speed while at high tiers you have to deal with low accuracy (etc,etc,etc...) and fairly low caliber compared to other nations. And at all tiers you have bulbous thick ship thats hard to citadel, but strangely easy to pen from pretty much any angle, who also loves catching fires. The only exception is Gneisen - fairly sleek, fast, maneuverable, has still very decent caliber on her tier and suprise torpedoes.
I despise Zieten but really like the rest of the line. The guns are a special kind sh*t that more often than not send shells everywhere except they were aimed and when the do hit they seem very anemic compared to the rest of the line.
I find there’s little point in playing my T8 German BB. Most of the time I’m matched with a bunch of T10s so I now just play my T10. Wonder if WG will ever change MM so it matches your level? I really miss playing my Tirpitz but there’s just no point when you’re the only T8 and everything else is T10.
If you are looking for other top five list suggestions and I believe you have them all so it works; two five best and then top five worse Dockyard Ships.
don t know if i can think of some sleeper ship. wha i want to know is in each nation beside german, what are the best cruiser and BB secondary ship, or in short ships that work well but in a different "built" that the rest of the nation
HMS Mongrel has always suffered from Hipper syndrome in being only really able to shine when the red team so underestimates her that they ignore you until you can get into good positions. If OTOH they see you as a damage pinata? Well... you're gonna be mega struggling with the low HP, low punish and bad firing arcs. I despised the ship in my first playthrough unlike any other BB in the game. In my regrind however I did get ignored quite a bit and was able to get a number of good game since yes, even the Mongrel can wreck when you can't angle against it anymore. Somewhat Ironically the KGV was my struggle ship that regrind since SinOP existed by then and hard counters KGV since if they aren't breaking your quad turret they're just bow citadeling you and putting out any fires until their DCP finally runs out.
HMS Monarch is an okay battleship, I think the reason why it's so disliked and slept on by much of the playerbase is because it is ironically one of very few British battleships that can actually do well with AP shells in an ENTIRE LINE that primarily emphasises HE usage.
Z-35 No one seems to own her but myself, which means hardly anyone knows what she can do. But it's a Groningen with torpedoes and British smoke. What is not to like?
As much as I like Warspite, in a 1v1 I think Mutsu wins. She got bigger guns, useful secondaries (not saying you should invest skills in them) and she got fast reloading Torps. Warspite might have better handling and heal, but if Mutsu can close in she got a huge advantage
what player do not like is not the ships its having only 6 guns and that if you want to use all 6 you need to present almost full broadside , that is so for Zatan and that is so for Gneis and you can say the same to a bunch of 6 guns only Cruisers / BB , and when people had a choice they would take their 8 guns , 9 guns , 12 / 15 / 16 guns over having to deal with only 6
Talking about Zieten, I'm also surprised people hold Prinz Heinrich in such high regard. Bayern guns at T7 just felt miserable to me (possibly the worst 380 mm shell performance in the game), and Zieten felt like such a huge upgrade over Heinrich.
I absolutely loved gneis I got her during brawls at t7 it took me a single day to get the bismarck.Seriously she is really good 100k average damage very good ship quite enjoy it.
same for me >.> that a trend i don t like in some german ship ( mosly cruiser) having only 1 front turret, and more turret at the rear. ( i do not like that on the Lyon either ), i tell myself the joke that german ship in Wows run aways ( all gun at the rear) to the french who have often only front facing gun
NOT listed that gets not nearly enough love - Agir I know she's premium. I know everyone who was around before will NEVER STFU about how her secondaries USED to be good. I dont care. I LOVE that ship. She's quick for a cruiser. Can go toe to toe with BBs for firepower. My secondary build makes it rain damage on anything within about 8k of me. And if a destroyer wants to slide in and try me, She's got torps and also a near 40% reduction in torp damage. So she can take a few in the exchange and walk away in okay shape still if you time damage party and repair party well. Stay unpredictable and She's the scourge of every destroyer and other cruiser. And move smartly and she can maneuver on battleships and do big damage. Oh. And her AA is respectable. She is maybe not a master of any trade, but definitely a jack of all at a fairly high performing level... and one of the best all rounders in my dock.
I mean, the ship was always considered one of the strongest. That's why they made Charleston. Nobody plays T3 anymore though. You mostly end up with bots.
I know that many dislike Gneis and she kinda has a bad rep that is undeserved. I think it's more the player, that gives it a bad name. Some think it's a "must" to get your torps off, which leads to huge pens regardless of turtleback. It's not an amazing, but it's a solid ship at it's tier. The NA server win rate is over 50% and mine is a couple of points higher, even though I'm an average player. Monarch?👎 I thought the Zieten is ok, but I hate the single front turret arrangement on a BB; you can't push when you need to.
These are all ships that I very much enjoy. It's really not a coincidence none are tier 10. Top tier games are boring and frustrating filled with meta spamming losers.
HE BB is boring. When i play BB i wanna see big numbers. Dev striking cruisers back to port. I wanna see 20 citadel ribbons. Not 20 fire ribbons. The damage is just not the same. Always minus the fire dmg.
LOL the footage of the Monarch you had really shows how shity it is.. not a sleeper.. also swtiching to AP there you would have nuked the NC much better.
I think the ppl who dump Zieten in the trash can does so because of her looks, not her abilities. A solid battlecruiser for sure and good at what she does.
I fully admit, I never said she is a bad ship, just that she is ugly and doesn't fit the rest of the mid and high tiers in the line, as in (using RN terms) A-B-X-Y turret layouts
It really isn’t a bad ship at all
But holy FUCK is it ugly
But zieten is not a good ship to be fair.
It eats tons of damage by the nose, but the actual meta are not for brawling ships, thanks to submarines and tons of planes. Otherwise it is a great ship, when the best conditions are met.
I hate how she looks only real bad thing is the 1 cannon front
I think part of the problem is that she’s by herself in terms of the sudden change in turret arrangement; least with the German CA line you at least get some practice with Konigsberg/Nurnberg before Roon pops up by comparison.
Zieten is honestly a solid Battlecruiser. Yes the downsides are her odd turret arrangement and she doesn't feel as tanky compared to other german BCs. However her guns reload faster than any tier 8 bb, has overmatch advantage thanks to the caliber, nice torps, and of course her secondaries shred everyone to pieces who get in range
My issue with Zieten is that, to me, she felt worse than the P. Heinrich. Felt worse to play. Im sure 1 to 1 she is probably better but when you play your tier, she feels less effective
people also don't like ships where they actually have to aim so get frustrated with a 6 gun salvo
Mutsu finally getting the recognition it deserves
I have a secondary Mutsu and I love it. DDs don't expect the secondaries, and most everyone doesn't know about the torpedoes.
The Zieten performs remarkably well in operations too (PVE player perspective here). Compared to other German bbs, the only main disadvantage of Zieten is that the armour is not as good as the other tier 8s but the rest is either as good as or straight better than the other tier 8 ships. She's uglier too, but that's kinda subjective 😂
I haven't played her, but isn't she disliked because of the gun layout making her subpar bow in, a bit like Roon.
@@Joshua-fi4ji Mh the gun layout surely is let's say more unique to Zieten compared to the other bbs and bcs of the German family, but to me it has never been an hindrance as much as the fact that your bow is only 25 mm (or was it 26?). Again i mostly play operations and there your main opponents (as in most of the enemy ships) are cruisers and dds which shoot mostly HE. There are bbs that can overmatch Zieten bow, but are limited to a couple of instances... Four perhaps: Musashi in Newport, Tirpitz, Bayern (at least 2) and Gneisenau in the escort the Ruan operation (don't recall the name) and the Missouri in Narai and another operation whose name I of course have forgotten.
@@paulthebored6782 Fair enough. I was only trying to say that it might be a reason why people don't like her, since not everyone can adjust their playstyle. I'm still on Heinrich so am not an authority.
Zieten and Gneisenau... Fully agree and play them regularly. Stopped at King George V and prioritised other BB's, German and US. Will eventually get to Monarch as well. Disapointed in the the British so far. Also have Rooke and Hawke. Also stopped there.
KGV and Monarch and Lion had a big nerf to her citadel size a while ago, but KGV is still and Lion are still decent.
Queen Elizabeth and below are all solid BBs.
Monarch is really frustratingly Inaccurate and the hull is fragile, Lions hull feels nice and the guns hit hard but they're still inaccurate and Conqueror is strong, but it's not super OP like it used to be.
I like playing Conqueror with the legendary Mod, but without it it's not fun. The standard rudder shift, citadel size and HE lead to quite boring gameplay. The mod almost makes her play like Vanguard.
As a whole, the line is not the most fun and legendary mods cost RB points these days.
They eat damage but burn down the enemy pretty consistently...
I prefer Germans too, full secondary build and guns blazing is awesome fun
The British battle cruisers are great. A lot better overall than the German ones. At least for random battles anyways. German bcs are fun in brawls
@@p_nillybrawling is no longer META in randoms. You will find the going tough at high tiers with full secondary build unless you happen to land in airship escort.
@@samarthraizada Oh, I know brawling isn't meta. Doesn't mean I won't try anyways. Timing is everything!
When i play Zieten... i always get focused down on whatever side i go... Cuz if u play full secondaries u just melt cruiser/dds in just a few seconds, its crazy... but mostly u just get burned down first :D
I think he attitude is....Zieten, gonna be a 2ndry build. Kill it with fire before it gets anywhere near me.
So you are a priority target to some extent.
The fact that you had a battleship BROADSIDE to you for ages and you didn't switch to AP shows that you know and understand exactly why the Monarch is held in such low regard. Pretty much every other battleship, you would switch to AP and DELETE the broadside BB at that range.
I got the Florida a while ago. Didn’t know about the dispersion gimmick. Played it like a regular BB and thought it sucked. So after watching your video played it again kept it at range and did 130k dmg. Ok I get it now.
That's a good list SLM. I personally love the Florida (home state bias). It has amazing gunnery for tier 7 but it's so easy to citadel through the nose if it has to get point-blank with other battleships. I jokingly dubbed the Zieten "Die Zikkurat" due to its "structure", but it's a solid battlecruiser when used appropriately.
Mutsu is the only IJN BB I went full secondary build on. The maps at tier 6 can still get you into a good brawl fight. Fun fun fun.
I vote for the T-22 German DD. She got some buffs a couple of patches ago so I started playing her more and have had some of my funnest games.
Ahh, my goto seal clubbing fun boat lol. I love it 🙂
At last I have one of the ships in a Top Five. HMS Monarch and I enjoy playing it. Like you have never had a problem playing this ship,
there is many things wrong with the monarch
Have played against the Zieten many times in UK BBs or Cruisers and can confirm that it is remarkably annoying to knock over.
Gniesenau was the first ship I slapped a permanent booster on and I've had her ever since. Problem is I am guaranteed bottom tier 4/5 games so it doesn't get to shine as it should. Great vid though. Zeiten is also pretty boss. I would say i56 too but I'll get crucified if I try to explain why i like a sub so much
Reasons why these are sleepers:
5. Gneisenau is the only ship in the line who can reliably miss a broadside Musashi at close range.
4. Monarch has nothing unique to it. Unlike the Lion and Conqueror, it lacks superheal, and unlike QE and KGV, who either have volume of fire or big guns for their tier and who are also historical ships, Monarch has nothing.
3. Florida? Hyuga is better in almost every single way. Better rate of fire, much better durability and armour and has a reload boost. They possess the same accuracy, afaik. Also, it is a historical ship unlike Florida.
2.Mutsu, I think, is the only one who really deserves to be in this list. It really is phenomenal.
1.Tier per tier, Zieten is, I think, the worst ship in her line from tier 7 and up. Heinrich is much better for her tier, so is Ruprecht and Schlieffen. Zieten is pretty okay, but it is usually outperformed by Bismarcks and Tirpitzes performance-wise, if they are played by the same player.
Conclusion, I believe this video could be done for Mutsu alone.
Hull.
Thats a fun little DD.
Salute to the Sea Lord from Canada! 🇨🇦 07
Kansas. Probably the single most overpowered tier 8 in game, even including premium ones - yet rarely praised by the community.
12x insane guns, top tier armor, small superstructure, 40 sec heal, fastest turn rate of all T8 BBs... It's just broken (69% WR over 163 battles), yet so rarely seen...
Mostly since its slow, meaning once your flank collapses or if its non existent to begin with you're kinda a dead weight
I’ve found the guns a tad inconsistent
But they hit like a goddamned truck
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 Same for Vermont, but people praise it while skipping Kansas (which is basically the same for tier 8).
Gneisenau is a fucking beast.
You need a 21 captain on it and definitly the captains perk, which increases speed if not seen by enemy. Add a speed flag and voilá - you run out many cruisers.
You have Bismarck guns, just one turret less, but well, its a T7 BB. Secondary build in addition and bang :)
If I play a CA/CL/DD or most other BB's and face an agressive Gneisenau player who is decent - I mostly have to escape, its terrifying.
FFS the biggest surprise about this video was the fact I had to watch the damn thing 3 times. The first few times was being distracted by thoughts in my head. Like "These ain't sleeper ships, I didn't see a single ship in this that carries a large amount of people on a voyage to a new star system." I'm betting at least I'm not the only one to even for a sec have a "LOL this ain't a sleeper ship" sci-fi moment.
The Mutsu has lost some of it's fun as power crept effects has made it more difficult to play. The biggest issue is her soft hull when she gets shoved into T7 and T8 games. The MM has a huge impact on this ship because of the hull. One thing that may help is in T7 and T8 games use her spotter and play further back, not forgetting to zigzag (when your spotted) in case some BB has homed in on you. If your in a T5-T6 game play closer in and stay close to your division.
Schroder is the ultimate sleeper. not a ton of them out there. my absolute favorite ship in the game. stealthy, fast, most secondaries in game, 305 mm guns with good reload, hydros, good armor. ship eats agirs for breakfast, can go toe to toe with any cruiser at tier and even most tier 10s. love love love her!
love it too :) very good ship, it would be to OP if it had torp XD
Gnei main here :v.... I LOVE IT
I unlocked the tier 9 Battlecruiser above Zeiten long ago, but i enjoy Zeiten so much, i havent bothered buying it yet. My Zeiten has over 640k xp sitting on it. I did 99% of that in operations.
I still consider Gneisenau the most fun to play of entire line. At T5-6 you have to deal with low accuracy (or dispersion, or sigma, cant remeber which one makes your salvo miss the target at all cardinal directions at the same time) and low speed while at high tiers you have to deal with low accuracy (etc,etc,etc...) and fairly low caliber compared to other nations. And at all tiers you have bulbous thick ship thats hard to citadel, but strangely easy to pen from pretty much any angle, who also loves catching fires. The only exception is Gneisen - fairly sleek, fast, maneuverable, has still very decent caliber on her tier and suprise torpedoes.
I despise Zieten but really like the rest of the line. The guns are a special kind sh*t that more often than not send shells everywhere except they were aimed and when the do hit they seem very anemic compared to the rest of the line.
Maybe When Zieten launch
We already have Bismark for secondary and shinnyhorse and torpitz which have torps on top of not bad secondary
Hm, gotta try the Mutsu now. I've been skipping her since she is very squishy and has pretty much shotgun accuracy when shooting at long range
Yes some Gneisenau love!
I find there’s little point in playing my T8 German BB. Most of the time I’m matched with a bunch of T10s so I now just play my T10. Wonder if WG will ever change MM so it matches your level? I really miss playing my Tirpitz but there’s just no point when you’re the only T8 and everything else is T10.
If you are looking for other top five list suggestions and I believe you have them all so it works; two five best and then top five worse Dockyard Ships.
you should try and make a top 5 most accurate secondary gun build ships lol.
don t know if i can think of some sleeper ship. wha i want to know is in each nation beside german, what are the best cruiser and BB secondary ship, or in short ships that work well but in a different "built" that the rest of the nation
HMS Mongrel has always suffered from Hipper syndrome in being only really able to shine when the red team so underestimates her that they ignore you until you can get into good positions. If OTOH they see you as a damage pinata? Well... you're gonna be mega struggling with the low HP, low punish and bad firing arcs.
I despised the ship in my first playthrough unlike any other BB in the game. In my regrind however I did get ignored quite a bit and was able to get a number of good game since yes, even the Mongrel can wreck when you can't angle against it anymore. Somewhat Ironically the KGV was my struggle ship that regrind since SinOP existed by then and hard counters KGV since if they aren't breaking your quad turret they're just bow citadeling you and putting out any fires until their DCP finally runs out.
The Mighty Jingles just unsubscribed. 🤣
huh? What did I miss?
@@eaglesix6585 The Mighty Jingles hates the Gneisenau with a passion.
@@sirbum1918no he doesn't, he has said it many times he hates how shit the guns perform despite only having 6
@@LordAKiraAndou Na, he hates it.
HMS Monarch is an okay battleship, I think the reason why it's so disliked and slept on by much of the playerbase is because it is ironically one of very few British battleships that can actually do well with AP shells in an ENTIRE LINE that primarily emphasises HE usage.
Z-35
No one seems to own her but myself, which means hardly anyone knows what she can do. But it's a Groningen with torpedoes and British smoke. What is not to like?
Hmmm- Mutsu vs Warspite would be interesting to see that fight.
As much as I like Warspite, in a 1v1 I think Mutsu wins. She got bigger guns, useful secondaries (not saying you should invest skills in them) and she got fast reloading Torps. Warspite might have better handling and heal, but if Mutsu can close in she got a huge advantage
what player do not like is not the ships its having only 6 guns and that if you want to use all 6 you need to present almost full broadside , that is so for Zatan and that is so for Gneis and you can say the same to a bunch of 6 guns only Cruisers / BB , and when people had a choice they would take their 8 guns , 9 guns , 12 / 15 / 16 guns over having to deal with only 6
Talking about Zieten, I'm also surprised people hold Prinz Heinrich in such high regard. Bayern guns at T7 just felt miserable to me (possibly the worst 380 mm shell performance in the game), and Zieten felt like such a huge upgrade over Heinrich.
Heinrich can literally munch the entire enemy team if you get a T5/6 game. Completely useless in an uptier though.
I absolutely loved gneis I got her during brawls at t7 it took me a single day to get the bismarck.Seriously she is really good 100k average damage very good ship quite enjoy it.
You actually pronounce the "G" in Gneisenau :) rest is on point though
The "Z" in Zieten should be sharp, like in "Tsar", but especially the "Neisenau" gives me almost a bout of OCD whenever he says it :D
problem with zieten is odd superstructure and gun placement , 6 guns , low hp and armor its tortures to play with it in randoms
same for me >.> that a trend i don t like in some german ship ( mosly cruiser) having only 1 front turret, and more turret at the rear. ( i do not like that on the Lyon either ), i tell myself the joke that german ship in Wows run aways ( all gun at the rear) to the french who have often only front facing gun
not sure if its a sleeper, but ive been having grat fun in my Graf Spee lately :V
NOT listed that gets not nearly enough love - Agir
I know she's premium. I know everyone who was around before will NEVER STFU about how her secondaries USED to be good.
I dont care.
I LOVE that ship.
She's quick for a cruiser. Can go toe to toe with BBs for firepower. My secondary build makes it rain damage on anything within about 8k of me. And if a destroyer wants to slide in and try me, She's got torps and also a near 40% reduction in torp damage. So she can take a few in the exchange and walk away in okay shape still if you time damage party and repair party well.
Stay unpredictable and She's the scourge of every destroyer and other cruiser. And move smartly and she can maneuver on battleships and do big damage.
Oh. And her AA is respectable.
She is maybe not a master of any trade, but definitely a jack of all at a fairly high performing level... and one of the best all rounders in my dock.
Zietan performs well I think, but holy crap it looks hideous- especially when compared to the mighty Bismarck
I think Mutu is still alright but only in T6 battle.
A good yukon player in ranked is tough
Pre-watch guesses
Graf Spee
Atlantico
Ashitaka can smash hard, just not take a hit in return
Arizona
HSF Harekaze
FLORIDA... believe you forgot to mention her above average reload rate.
Can you make at least one video per week talking about how great the Monarch is?
Gneiseneu and Mutsu are godawful what does this mean xD wtf do you mean THINK she's been kept on...
AHOY
Mushy pea gods
The American St, Louis, yes I know it’s low tier.
I mean, the ship was always considered one of the strongest. That's why they made Charleston.
Nobody plays T3 anymore though. You mostly end up with bots.
Lol two ships i can't stand. The monarch and the Florida
I know that many dislike Gneis and she kinda has a bad rep that is undeserved. I think it's more the player, that gives it a bad name. Some think it's a "must" to get your torps off, which leads to huge pens regardless of turtleback. It's not an amazing, but it's a solid ship at it's tier. The NA server win rate is over 50% and mine is a couple of points higher, even though I'm an average player. Monarch?👎 I thought the Zieten is ok, but I hate the single front turret arrangement on a BB; you can't push when you need to.
Neisenau? really?
Me thinks you be trollin..
just ask jingles how to pronunce "Gneisenau" and have fun...
maybe in ops, where enemies will get within secondary, I mean main gun, range
Gneisenau is pronounced with an hard g so kinda like „kneisenau“ - just in case anyone wanna brag with their German knowledge 😂
ZIETEN really? I skip this ship immediately because in Asia server all of player are passive. and you can do nothing by this one.
i love zeatin agir is better
These are all ships that I very much enjoy. It's really not a coincidence none are tier 10. Top tier games are boring and frustrating filled with meta spamming losers.
I would love Zieten IF she didnt have the dumb turret layout. Same reason i hate Roon.
HE BB is boring. When i play BB i wanna see big numbers. Dev striking cruisers back to port.
I wanna see 20 citadel ribbons. Not 20 fire ribbons.
The damage is just not the same. Always minus the fire dmg.
if I want fire ribbons on a BB, it better be with hundreds of secondary hits
Monarch!!!? Whaaat? Unsubscribed.
LOL the footage of the Monarch you had really shows how shity it is.. not a sleeper.. also swtiching to AP there you would have nuked the NC much better.
Quite large that’s what I’m told all the time by my girl
My choice would be the british cruiser Hampsire.