Can we appreciate for a second how perfect Left 4 Dead 2 improved upon Left 4 Dead 1? L4D1 taught you that sticking closely together is essential to survive, then L4D2 throws in the same concept but adds a challenge of "Hey, check out these new infected that'll fuck you up if you stick together like glue." It was the perfect sequel.
Absolutely. I honestly don't get critiques about the 3 new specials being annoying. That's the point of the Jockey, Spitter and Charger. The were created to separate your team to enhance your cooperation with one another.
L4D on 360 was easily one of my most played games on that console. Day after day in high school, either running random lobbies on the hardest difficulty or finding people to play Vs in. I’ve put maybe 50 hours into b4b purely because I want some value for my purchase.
@@AlyJss Out of those 3, Jockey is the only one I saw as annoying in specific, and I think it holds even more true that it was intentional, like his sound, and that it's the point
The most rare thing in left for dead 2. Is getting knocked like pins from a charger. Getting launched in the air is so engaging like your all stunned for a few seconds enough for other infected to make a play off that charge. That's why I loved the pvp if you got a good charge or a nice jockey snag. That survivor would be dead if the team attacks together which when you pull it off is so fun
I always love how caring coach and Rochelle are to Ellis when he rambles but then nick is always very straight forward telling him that "we don't got time for this shit ellis."
Worth noting that the dev team behind B4B and L4D have very little in common. Crowbcat's video showed that the actual developers who made Left 4 Dead were 90% Valve and 10% Turtle Rock.
@ItsAJs out of 183 from the original team like 6 worked on B4B [someone counted the credits from L4D and compared names] which means only 3.3% of the L4D team is even involved.
From the Creators of Left 4 Dead Consisting of - The intern who brought them coffee - The Janitor who carried around a spare set of keys to let the employees in when they got locked out - The guy in charge of their Twitter account
The existence of the snitch i just find hilarious. The screamer was a special infected cut from L4D that was removed for being unfun, valve removed it and created the boomer (or retooled him. i think he just exploded and damaged at that point). the screamer was just the snitch, and TR just put it right back in, and low and behold, the idea is unfun.
@@keku52 Valve found him too frustrating to deal with, when he is visible for like 5 seconds and then sprints away to summon horde on you. Only to possibly repeat same thing again.
@@keku52 Having an enemy that summons a horde and runs away, only to repeat the same process is going to be unfun for the player, imagine trying to get rid of that enemy while a horde of 13 zombies body block you from managing to do that. And its also very unfun to have to kill a certain enemy just to progress without much difficulty. The only reason why people ''want it back'' (i bet its like 10 people in this community) is because of how they never got to experience it. The reason why people wanted to play the HL2 beta instead of the release one is because they want to experience the cut content that never saw the light of release. Imagine this: the roles are switched, the beta HL2 becomes the release one and the release one becomes the beta, everyone would want to play the beta, because they want to experience the stuff that never got to see the light of release
@@OsnoloVrach I think another reason ppl wanted it to return back then was cus L4D is a well done and fair game, so we all assumed Valve would've found ways to perfect it to fit L4D's mechanics and make it fair. We weren't aware how bad Turtle Rock was at executing their cool concepts until, well, now.
@@keku52 The Screamers in WWZ are good examples of how they should be done. I really enjoy them because they stand out just enough for you to target them, but not enough that they seem way too pit of place. Plus you can easily kill them before they're able to scream given that their weakpoint is the head and takes only 1 or 2 shots to kill
Update: TR said no mod support and (at this moment) solo-play is severely gimped when it comes to progression via supply point to unlock stuff as well as achievements being disabled. They basically told Solo players to f off
Another highlight of Valve's attention to detail. The first map in l4d2, is the "dead center" You are at the top of those "20 flights of god-damn stairs" The outbreak is still fresh and they still have hope of getting rescued. The dialogue for how they address each other & the environment (what they named the zombies) isn't written in stone yet. They introduce each other on the elevator ride down. When you press "look" on the voice radial menu while looking at another character, it will usually have your character say the name of the character you are looking at on any other map. The map Dead Center is unique in this respect because they will refer to each-other with nicknames instead of their real name before they've had a chance to get to know each other. Some Notable examples. Nick calls Ellis "Overalls" Rochelle calls Ellis "Hee Haw" Coach Calls Ellis "youngin" Ellis Calls Coach "big guy" Many more little subtle things that let you know they just met. When Coach hears a spitter he says "I hear a fat women" When Nick sees a Tank he says 'BIG FREAKIN' ZOMBIE!" When Ellis see's a charger he says "One of those Chargin' things! It makes sense that they haven't agreed upon what to call them yet as the outbreak is still fresh, but by the next map, They know each other's names and agreed upon what to call the zombies. This is part of what makes l4d2 a masterpiece.
wow, years of playing that game and never knew that. shows how much soul games of yesteryear had even little dialogue changes are so unique and soulful.
@@cisco20211 The new dialogue changes was only added in TLS update, so it's fair that you've never heard of them unless you started playing after the TLS update.
Fun Fact! The hunter is in parkour gear! The tape he wears reduces air resistance by keeping the thick clothes he wears close to his body! he also wears thick clothes for I believe skin protection
Most of the Special Infected are built around the previous person's life, so the Boomer would have been an overweight person, the Charger/Tank would be bodybuilders or people on steroids, the Smoker would have been someone who smoked (who could've guessed that), etc.
"L4D Devs created B4B as a spiritual successor!" Yes. About 8 developers that had minimum input as management or design, and were simply codemonkies. 8, out of the what, near 200 to 300 that worked on the original games? Impressive. "From the creators of" is such a lie.
Minimum? The co-founders were the ones who had the initial idea for the game and helped direct it to what became Left 4 dead. They were critical in the games inception.
@@Midgedwood they had the initial idea, that's it, valve made everything else, look at the credits, look at the development notes and presentations. Why do you think stating things like "they were integral" means anything? How can you Say how much one person does over another when one does art and one programs, but no it probably wasn't the hundreds of valve employees, it was the 6 devs from turtlerock their entire idea is literally something that was already made in counter strike at the time, it's called zombie survival
@@Midgedwood yeah they had the idea of making a zombie shooter, which isn't very unique. Valve gave the game its identity and soul whilst turtle rock did little to nothing for the game.
Holly gives boring, half assed exposition about how she watched her family die. Meanwhile in L4D’s ‘The Sacrifice’ comic (which is completely free btw) it shows how Zoey had to watch her Father kill her mother since she was infected, finding out he was but and then having to kill him, thinking he’d also turn. Then, finding out the Immunity to the Green Flu is passed down from the Father, meaning Zoey's father was likely immune and wouldn’t of turned after all, leaving her to live with that grief. All done in a beautiful illustrated art style that really makes you feel for her. Back 4 Blood just kind of throws Holly’s grief out there with no build up, and no character development.
i am all for variated female personas and characters, but holly has just felt off since day one. something about her attitude and lines feel like the unironic, or too ironic, hollywood bravado kind of... i dont even know how to describe it. but basically grumpy lines like "ohh here we go again" while facing death threatening situations, when you expect the most to see some hint of nervousness, if not outright panic, or some kind of seriousness, just anything that reflects the visuals. i dont think that i mind as much a superhero like woman with a massive ego, but i did not expect to find that kind of a brave hero with a large ego in a zombie survival co-op game. even though francis fits that description, it comes off purely as ironic, and the others make a laughing stock out of him for it. it is also more like something he pretends to be, and also adds some believable layer to him that he might actually be more intelligent than he shows. i think holly's personality punches too much with too little irony (or too much??) or too little seriousness wedged in i never thought i would be unable to identify if something is too unironic or too ironic, but it somehow lands in a gray zone where it needs both lol
Valve has a talent of making interesting characters with few simple elements. For example, compare Mercy from OW to Medic from TF2; Mercy feels rather generic and dull because Blizzard went with the 'she is, like, SOOOOO awesome, but here's also a food she likes to make her quirky and relatable', all while Valve used the simple and smart 'Raised in Stuttgart, Germany during an era when the Hippocratic oath had been downgraded to an optional Hippocratic suggestion' in order to make him way more memorable and likable.
@@Littlevampiregirl100 I like her personality, because to me it feels like she's just putting on a really long act, and there are certain moments where to me at least she hesitates, and a bbit of honesty leaks through. I think her cheery bravado is a coping mechanism, like one of those "If I pretend to be ok long enough, I'll be ok" kind of deals.
@@gamer47e17 i fully back you up for liking her. female characters tend to go under a lot more scrutiny and nitpicking than most other characters, and that comes from both genders. they have a lot higher bar set for them for how they are supposed to be and act in different video games, and it also varies from what each gender expects of them to generalize it in a narrow way; from the women and girls perspective, they need to be relatable enough in unusual ways and preferably not be tailored to fit only what men want. they are much allowed to stand out in quirky or weird ways, and those ways can vary a lot depending on what kind of woman or girl we are talking about. and from men and boys perspective, its better if they have some or more good qualities about them, like a nice or at least agreeable personality, that they have a good dynamic with male characters, and also being, to some extend, physically attractive or decent looking. and the polar opposite can make these characters very disliked. if they rely on the male gaze, that can put women and girls off and make them annoyed playing these characters, or even just being near them. or if their personality is not meant to be pleasing or challenges others around them, or having very distinct looks not meant to be nice, pleasing, or cute, that can put men off and make them annoyed. so, these needs often clash, because men and women will often want the polar opposite in a female character, making it a very narrow window for what passes as a great character for both. male characters are more agreeable for both genders. (straight) women rarely look for something that suits their female gaze though that need does exist, so men are more often spared from that, and women are also more agreeing with quirky or weird male characters, though this can also go too far and become annoying, but we all have different bars for when that limit is crossed. there are of course also some male characters that are more tailored to fit women's needs, but men are luckily also generally accepting to this need, even if most avoid playing these characters, haha. and then you have characters like francis that are just so badass, all genders find him more than agreeable 🥴 its a very watered down explanation on what both genders like and bordering on stereotypes, but it would take forever to go into depth and explain how and why it is like that, and also covering all the middle grounds where these kind of rules for what makes a good character just doesnt apply either way, for these two generalized perspectives, this kind of shows both with zoey and rochelle, actually. i think while some women found zoey agreeable and relatable, at least depending on their age and attitude, to some of us, there was also a lot more to be desired from her character. but then, most guys tend to lap up how she is and for being more than agreeable to them, for being physically nice to look at too, some even going great extends to sexualize her, though i dont blame all men for that. but this also spoiled the character for a lot of girls and women, especially those that related to her for being the epitome of an average teenager trying to get by in an unreal and horrifying situation rochelle received a lot of backlash, though i doubt that came from the female player community, except maybe for a couple few, some who might even have felt pressured for one reason or another. i have had a couple of girl friends over the years who really liked rochelle (that including myself) since day one, and we still do, and we oppose this dislike as best as we can and try to keep this character as our own relatable thing. i think she especially plays a huge role for some women of color, from what i saw in those friends, though i would never put it on them that they have to like this character just for that. overall she is a very down to earth, at best a weird character who owns herself, who opposes or synergizes with the other male characters, and with zoey once they meet, however little that was, in very interesting ways, for a lot of women and girls to perceive. its also refreshing that she is not that straightforward to sexualize, removing a lot of frustrations that comes from that. some will still try to, and considering the hate she used to receive, i guess that is not as annoying as it would be if it was done since the start. just for the reason of how unpopular she has been, then its nice to see her being turned into something positive in whichever way. but really, it should not be necessary for a female character to either be sexual, or cute and sweet, in order to be a great one for holly, my only problems with her is her personality, though the problem is also a huge one for me. i am just personally not able to perceive it as a coping mechanism with the way it punches so much through. but, if that is literally everyone's one and only problem with her, regardless of gender, then her character is doing pretty well for herself. so, good on you for finding her genuine and likable 🥳
@@Littlevampiregirl100 also francis acts like he is indestructable in trailer and gameplay while screaming like little girl after being downed adds some hillarious characterization
The biggest difference between L4D and B4B in terms of characters is that one group is genuinely try to survive while another one are just a bunch of tryhards.
@@silverlambda3285 this. After watching the trailer (where some annoying person cheerily talks about their little adventure, and the playable characters' traits ) I had to go back to watch the original Left 4 Dead trailer where a bunch of people barely survived and managed to cross a single street.
YESSS, this was one of the biggest things that turned me off of the B4B cast. L4D had the cast fighting to survive while the B4B cast was fighting to get supplies. It felt like they didn't need to be there
@@fearlesspigeon8399 I love another thing in L4D - you have readable silhouettes of the main cast there, so even in bad lightning you can see and know who is who and where.
Interestingly Louis doesn't have any combat experience, but he used to go to the gun range a lot according to the games The Sacrifice comic that they released, so that's interesting
The Snitch is literally an unused concept from L4D. There was a special zombie in a straitjacket that screamed to alert the horde. They decided that it would be a pain to deal with in-game so they cut it and added the horde alerting ability to the Boomer which originally only damaged the player when it blew up just like the Reeker Exploders in B4B.
I’m glad you brought it up. Its almost like things get left on the cutting room floor for a reason. It feels like the B4b team thought that including cut concepts would be neat but didnt stop to consider why it was not implemented.
@@the.littlest.toaster The clown draws the attention of infected in the area to him, The Boomer spawns a large horde (regardless of how many infected are nearby) to attack survivors who have been boomed. Two very different things.
@@the.littlest.toaster Not really, if anything it makes them easier to be killed since they will all be grouped up with the clown meaning high penetration weapons will make quick work of them.
Honestly tho, like I feel if the ideas were even just introduced over time it would be better, but everything is just thrown at you all at once, make it feel like a task to understand the game rather than having fun.
The part were he talked about how you can be anyone you want to be in a movie-styled game; I can relate to that an really good example of this (at least for me) is during the finale of the swamp in L4D2 and the boat had arrived, and two people were downed, I had kept running toward the boat, but realized: the other teammate is going back for the others, I stood there, at the boat, contemplating whether or not to abandon them, and so I ran back. A tank and hundreds of zombies lie in the way of my friends. I stare down the tank as I throw my last Molotov, burning away at the common infected, I rush to the tank unloading mag after mag, with my fellow comrades on the ground assisting as best as they can. The tank, finally, drops to the ground. But the constant stream of common infected leaving no time for celebration, I pick up one person, and throw them pills, then grab the other, we all rush to the boat, I staying behind because the rest are low HP. We make it to the boat, and take off, leaving behind the swamp, and beginning the next campaign.
I can litterly see you turn to the boat and back again and finally saying "fuck" and runs towards your team mates 😹 would have ben epic if you in the final moment died though but there is always the next time right 😹 still thanks for the great story
I once was the last guy, and there were like 3 tanks, my brother had just been murdered, and I was at 1 health, I heard the commotion, but did not have any courage to look back, I swear a rock nearly hit me and I felt slow, it was so much fun
I love how they market themselves as "From The creators of Left 4 Dead". Left 4 Dead was made by the collective effort of 200-250 people named in credits, and only 7 of those people worked on Back 4 Blood. So it's more like "yeah, few of us kind of were here and there at the time, but 99% of our team is irrelevant to our claim". Oh, and the founders of Turtle Rock Studios, not to take away from them, but they were mainly artists. Bold claim to call yourself the creator when your input on the game was painting textures and making few 3D models. According to online databases, collaboration between B4B and L4D is so low it's not even on the list, but collaboration between B4B and Evolve is a group 75 people. Also as of 17th December 2021, Turtle Rock Studios have sold out to Tencent, trying to grab that sweet Chinese revenue. So much for "we want to be free" and other things they were on about in the past.
That marketing is 100% the primary strategy they relied on to sell this game. It's the ONLY reason I got it, I must admit, they played me like a fiddle on this one. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that turned out to be BS. I played the beta for 20 minutes and could immediately tell it was NOT what they had advertised. Thank god for Steam refunds
Rochelle can be annoying, I agree, because she can sound bossy at times... but she takes on the role of the group's mother and her interactions with Ellis are so endearing. Coach is more of a laidback yet fun loving dad so I like their contrast. Meanwhile, Nick is the sleazy guy who keeps hitting on Ro while Ellis is a dumb himbo sweertheart (much like Francis, but smarter and less destructive to others and himself)... So yeah, I understand why she isn't the favorite but I don't think I'd have another character than her in the group. She completes their rag tag group. :>
The first time I watched the Back 4 Blood trailer, I felt like the survivors weren't treating the zombie apocalypse seriously.. Left 4 Dead 2's trailer also did not have a serious tone, but it felt more like the survivors just quickly grew tired of the shit apocalypse yet stakes were still on the line. Also, the trailer of the First L4D shows how the survivors got to the top of the building of the first campaign. Like everything was really explained in that one trailer. Truly a masterpiece. I think that in the L4D franchise there were gun tiers, like the SPAS would always feel better than the Pump Shotgun, yet it was very simple and not a huge mechanic to follow. I miss L4D.. sad that we probably won't have a 3rd
"I DID NOT. COME THIS FAR. TO DIE NOW." Says all you need to hear, really. That, and the emotion, the urgency, that the characters show in the Sacrifice. They got some measure of 'used to it', but still felt tense as life or death was a constant.
There's something very real about the jokes in L4D, humour is one of the oldest coping mechanisms around and it really reflected that. In L4D it felt like the survivors were cracking jokes to reassure themselves and improve morale, in B4B it feels like they're telling a joke *to* us so they can appear funny to us.
There's one thing B4B did well. It showed people how amazing L4D really is and how many little details were put into the game to really make it enjoyable. Stuff you probably didn't notice but when you play B4B you feel something is off. Things like the zombie animations, how they react to being burned, how they react to being shot and losing limbs, the destructible environment, how important music is and just so much more.
There is no impact on the gunplay in B4B because the animations are so shit. The game has the sophistication of Killing Floor back in 2009. This team is completely talentless compared to the original developers. I stopped playing after Act 1 because, even with friends, the game was so boring. We will go back to L4D because it’s such a classic.
Left 4 Dead's wackiness fits because it's entirely coming _from the characters._ Nick cracking fat jokes at Coach and Louis and Francis giving each other shit is them doing believable coping shit. They're keeping each other's spirits up, cracking wise, but they're not making light of the SITUATION. There's nothing for them to make light of in the situation, they're in a zombie apocalypse. Wackiness in the world is the kind of situational absurdity that also makes sense -- yes you're fighting zombie clowns, but you're at a carnival, it makes sense there'd be clowns there. It's really easy to miss that distinction, and a lot of writers do. But at the end of the day, your characters are living in the world you've made. It matters to them, or it should.
And some of those jokes can be made reality. Like Nick's joke about "helicopter made of chocolate"...and then you have chocolate skin for helicopter(which probably also has Coach making happy noises).
THIS USED TO BE A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD aw man, this is bringin back memories. I'm gonna be a one man cheeseburger apocalypse KIDDIELAAAND! Can we stop for cotton candy? My buddy Keith this one time - *other survivors say to quiet down* "making light of situation": Popped a cap in his ass! Nice shot! That all you got!? Not actually going haha zombie apocalypse. "This is some kinda nightmare zombie apocalypse shit! Shit shit shit, what are we gonna do..." And I bet you that these voicelines are so heartfelt and character driven you know who they're from without me saying any names.
@@g80gzt "THIS USED TO BE A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD!" "AW HELL, IT'S ABOUT TO GET ALL BAGHDAD AND SHIT!" "OW, SHOOT THE TANK, YOU BLIND SON OF A BITCH!" "Hey, I found a candybar! ...Whoop... False alarm." "Poor foodcourt never stood a chance..." "HELICOPTER. IT IS A HELICOPTER. IF YOU CALL THAT THING A WHIRLYBIRD ONE MORE TIME, I'LL BEAT YOU SO BAD, YOUR SISTER WILL WISH SHE NEVER GAVE BIRTH TO YOU!" "Don't walk on the dirt, it's historical." It's just banger after banger quote.
There is a strange infected in B4B called the “Hag”. This has somewhat the same mechanics as the Witch. If hags are shot, they will chase the player. And if they reach them, they will *completely swallow them.*
In left 4 dead they made tons of different animations for falling zombies when you shoot them, depending on where and what. That’s why it feels like each shot makes an impact, BECAUSE IT DOES!
One thing about the cast that's worth touching on is how they look and carry themselves. The old cast had clothes that hinted their upbringing. Francis's biker gear, Bill's uniform, Nick's suit and Ellis's coveralls really painted a picture of where they came from what they were doing before the world went bad. There was big rag tag vibe. The cast in Back 4 Blood are a military unit that goes on missions together and as such are trained and experienced. However they all are wearing different combinations of survival/tactical gear and as such look samey. Sure you get a unique accessory like Hoffman's glasses but you really don't know what these people were like before the zombies. It's like they only exist known to kill Ridden and do little else
Technically speaking that IS true. Since they are the ONLY people that can fight the infection on fields, humanity made sure that it is their ONLY purpose. Since everybody else will get infected from being spit on/drinking water/eating crops from infected soil. These people are an extreme unit because the apocalypse is of EXTREME difficulty. It is almost un-survivable. And on top of that, they have to fight Kaiju level threats in every city. So…. Yeah. If they were normal people, they would be DEAD. Instead, they are an elite death-squad collectively funded more by humanity than NASA…. And it directly translates to game
Late to the party but what annoyed me was the ambiance, dialogue and ads. L4D is a horror movie in which characters take themselves seriously, B4B is a fun gore movie but characters know they're in a movie if my analogy makes sense.
They're basically the epitome of style over substance. No real personalities, no real back stories, no character arcs, not 3 dimensional, no challenges/struggles/growth, etc. They're basically just appealing one liner delivery machines. But still remembered as iconic and that tells you just how good the dialog writing was. Style over substance isn't a bad thing. It's just style of character design. The sole exception is the sacrifice. They actually did a little character writing for that and made a comic for it. But that's the only time they are treated as actual characters. Outside of that it's an overweight health teacher dropping a line about how it used to be a nice neighborhood while in a life or death battle with zombies that they win hands down via their prowess as a health teacher? and for 4 normal people trapped in hell none of them are actually afraid at basically any time. Too busy cooking up that next 1 liner. It's basically 80s action movie rules lol. That's the power of style over substance done right is that none of that matters. As long as they are cool and clever.
Something else to mention about the common infected in L4D/L4D2 is they used mocap to mimic each interaction with weapons depending on where they were hit with a melee or shot with a weapon. If you take your time to shoot a single common in different spots or shove it around you really see the uniqueness in each reaction, Valve really put their all in the animations to give life to a seemingly disposable enemy.
Ye most of the survivors had some experience with guns prior to the outbreak like Zoey being a fan of zombie movies or Louis having target practice same with Ellis and then there's Bill the one with the most experience being a vet or Francis a biker who definetely has shot a gun in his rebel days just like Nick, i think the only person who didn't have much experience is Rochelle but she has 3 people she can depend on and learn fast with so she's good.
I mean, hell i can mod the game to have beans to replace pills, cry of fear adrenaline to replace the adrenaline shot, cloaker from payday 2 to replaces hunter, payday 2 medic bags to replace the first aid kits, wobbly ak-47 and so much more thanks to the workshop, this is why i love l4d2
@@Undercover3267 I have Spider-Man, Hex, Isabelle, and Bass, fight hordes of Minecraft zombies, using Halo weapons, Despenser medkits, and cookie cats. While Ronald McDonald, Wario, Homer, Kazooie, (From Banjo-Kazooie.) Green goblin, Jacket, And last but not least, Peter Griffin, try to kill them. BTW, I have turned Bass and Wario into, Susie and Snorlax respectfully
Reminder that turtlerock were the ones who took counter strike, and dropped in a bunch of bots with knives and said, quote "it was already fun to play, we just needed to make it look good". Valve were the ones who added the special infected, the director, and all the little nuances and systems that made L4D what it is.
‘’now we just need to make it look good’’ (pyro talk) ‘’what, we can’t do that ourselves? Ok then, VALVE, MAKE THIS GAME LOOK GOOD’’ ‘’ok’’ (turtle rock staying doing nothing of the game)
Turtle Rock actually didn't really have as much to do with Left 4 Dead 2. L4D2 was soley created to phase out Left 4 Dead 1 and take Turtle Rock out of the picture, which is why L4D2 was created less than a year after the release of L4D1. Not a lot of people know that, and I noticed you got that wrong in your video, so I thought I would clarify. Left 4 Dead 2 was less of a Turtle Rock thing and mostly a Valve Project.
Listen, l4d2 took less than a year due to REUSED ASSETS……..like oh yeah they totally made whole new models for the hunter, smoker, boomer, witch and the tank…….no they made new maps, 4 new survivors, and added 3 new special infected………you did little to no research or have any paying attention skills
The whole movie thing for L4D is something I have never really thought about until I grew older And even then it wasn't a thing I thought about too deeply outside of "hey this loading screen is like a movie poster" But really thinking about it, the whole movie schtick could not be any more true I remember playing the last act of No Mercy with friends and one thing I would mostly do is whenever the chopper arrives, just stay on the minigun until I died Would it be faster to just get on? Absolutely but I stood on the gun like how the bird man says it, a sacrifice Unnecessary sacrifice but still. The fact that each play through with the mindset of playing through a movie is just great on top of the fantastic game design. I need to play it with my friends again
A concept that is lost in today's games, "Be complete on release". I'm so tired of games that release incomplete and patch to "competent". I want games to feel good day one. Not to feel like Im some studios' QA/Beta tester. There's something I liked about B4B but the more I look at it, the more I realize it reminds me of what L4D gave me and not what B4B is. Thanks for the break down, it was enjoyable to watch.
If you're really itching for left 4 dead style games that are actually good, I'd highly recommend vermintide 1 and 2. It may not be the exact same, but SO much more care was put into those games than back 4 blood. And they really nailed the atmosphere and punchy satisfying combat similar to how l4d did.
Left for Dead is everything I want modern games to be. No Fear of Missing Out, no Microtransactions, No Battlepass, no Progression (barring achievements) No arbitrary perk system, loadouts or cosmetics (and for people who want those features, they are easily modded in.) None of that stupid shit You just jump into the game, choose your character, pick up whatever gun happens to spawn in the safehouse, and GO.
Exactly. Most games add all these grinds or other nonsense in order to retain players. L4D has no grind, yet it retains players due to the simple fact that it's fun, and is very moddable. Though tbh, i wouldn't say no to a cosmetic system. But, like you've said, we can sorta have that with mods.
these types of games are called casual games. not made for competitive play, but for fun casual entertainment, something AAA game publishers and execs have no idea what is because they've thrown quick play and LAN parties out the window in favor of ranked games and global play
it's not a zombie game, but i feel like Deep Rock Galactic nails the co-op survival style of game with a unique setting and art direction so well. the voice lines of the dwarves overlap a bunch but giving them all a different pitch is somehow still enough to make them identifiable. Plus, the game monetisation is incredibly generous compared to similar modern games, just a few cosmetic dlc packs, everything else the devs just toss at you for free. If you enjoyed L4D, give DRG a shot, i promise you you won't regret it
Im glad someone mentioned DRG! I found myself being reminded of it a couple of times whenever he praised the gameplay and mechanics of L4D. Its such a great game its criminally underrated for what it is
I just wish Valve would have made a Left 4 Dead 3, or a Half Life 3, or a Team Fortress 3. Keep these franchises going, not leave them in darkness. Just make games again Valve. We hate you, but we love you.
Nigga they dropped a new half life not that long ago I feel you but it's not like they killed the franchise, I can't say the same for LFD or TF though so rip
@@honeychubbs I had a feeling someone would bring up Alyx. So, at the risk of getting people's dandruff up, I don't consider it on the same level of Half Life 3. If not for the ending, I'd call it a spinoff. That said, I personally still see Alyx as a spinoff that tries to bounce into a Half Life 3 that may or may not happen. Valve never kills their franchises, just leaves them missing in action.
The main reason because Valve is now focused more on research rather than development. HL Alyx was meant to be a market test for their new Source engine which surprisingly did pretty well. Additionally they made the Steam deck which looks pretty good but I'm not gonna judge until it releases. We might as well just give up on having future Valve game releases and hope somebody actually uses the Source 2 Engine to create similar games
I like that even character outfits can be incredibly memorable for being so simple. Louis in his workplace outfit, Nick in his expensive looking suit, Coach in his school coaching attire, Francis being a biker dude with his vest, and even Ellis with just jeans, his iconic T-shirt and a hat. Could be partially because the outbreak is still relatively new for them What do these new characters have? Awful amounts of clothes with so many layers. Edit: y’all gotta calm down. Also, I do now know that Ellis has coveralls and not jeans
It's a small thing, but worth pointing out that Ellis's "jeans" are a pair of coveralls that he's not wearing "properly". A little thing that just helps add to his design/personality.
I play ZOMBIE games for immersion. L4D is the opposite of it. I wish L4D was a “Project Zomboid with special infected”…. But instead it is the opposite. The whole POINT of zombie apocalypse is that you can DIE. Scratch = infection = death. Ammo is scarce. Acid flung into you = death. Exploding zombie = instant death. Slap by a tank = death. Horde = no resources = death. L4D is backwards in design. Zombies are supposed to be tough as nails, but they die in under a second. Survivors are supposed to be squishy, but it takes nothing short of dropping them from 10 stories by an oversized infected to actually kill them. I hate this whole “survivors are damage sponges” thing. Ruins the game for me. It is NOT fun. It is not immersive. It is not well balanced (feast-or-famine stuff where abusing environment and teamwork is more important than individual accomplishment). And it SUCKS to play zombies (unlike playing monster in “Evolve” or playing killer in “Last Year”).
@@kingol4801 prolly just a troll but Realism Expert is what you just described. Also, Adrenaline can make you very tough even if you are as weak as vases, making you run in one hour even if you have a permanent knee injury. They also use medical kits/first aid kits which (assumed) they can battle infections or even tetanus (A first aid contains not only bandages but dressings). Spitter's acid is stomach acid, which takes many, many time to even dissolve you. Also, boomer exploding isn't literally a bomb, its the system of the boomer that self-explodes the vomit it stores. A tank can also down you instantly within one hit in REALISM. The infected being very weak is an intentional design because the green flu's symptoms makes them malnourished and weakened. They aren't immune to other infected, or even to their own attacks. The survivor sponge is very fair, and there's something called incapacitation. It is well balanced because valve designed you to feel the music, forced to be cooperative with your team, and always look out for your team. It doesn't suck to play zombie because it also requires teamwork to injure the survivor team. For example, the spitter can block off an entrance while a smoker grabs a survivor.
As far as I know they don’t do that anymore, for a while actually, kinda wish valve did go back and re release the orange box for this generation, maybe add portal 2 and csgo to the mix, along of course with an updated version of team fortress 2, but it’s just a dream at this point, or a nightmare with how much it haunts me that they won’t do it.
@@fighter5583 I don't really mind it, I like having extensive customisation in my games... but if there are so many hats that you have to dial the graphical fidelity of every other aspect of the game down, maybe it's time to stop
Playing L4D and hearing the horde music gives feelings of adrenaline, but also tensity and fear. The music when a witch is around has build up until you actually see and startle her. All of the piano or violin pieces when a special infected is around are played in a way where it *convinces* you that something threatening is around. The soundtrack in L4D is one of the best pieces of composing in gaming.
Hearing a tank makes me nearly shit myself 10 times out of 10. I slow to a crawl or hang behind the trailblazers because I don't want to suddenly get my ass clapped in a janitor closet with a tank.
So true. Hearing that three tune tone of an incoming horde really does tense me up like no other. That three tune tone instill both fear and also increases ones awareness of ones surrounding too lest the group spots the horde way too late for a pipe bomb to be useful.
The most nostalgia I got from left 4 dead is when me and my friends play that one campaign with the gnome and everybody took turns smashing zombies with it.
As a gamer I’m glad you acknowledge that fact that even though there are a lot of multiplayer and “co-op”games they’re really not co-op in the sense that the game doesn’t really care if you work together more as people playing together but for their own personal reasons
Reasons why that Deep Rock Galactic and Vermintide make their homework of how to make a good Co-op game liked Left 4 Dead but not as a replacement, but as something unique. Side note: Payday and GTFO does count too but that's another story.
But B4B does have unique systems. About 90% of people talking about the game, just don't seem to have any details on what B4B actually is. We already saw playstyle/role defining builds in the beta. We saw complex resource management in many mechanics. And so many people want to gloss all that over, and complain about how it's not the perfect L4D sequel. Exercise in futility if I ever saw one. Is your problem actually that the enemies are zombies, and they used "creators of L4D" in the trailer? And this means that "they are trying to replace L4D, therefore the game sucks" Can you see how silly that is? Give the game and it's mechanics an honest look, maybe you can actually make an informed decision if you like it or not.
@@wtfronsson i did played the Alpha and the Beta fir B4B and it still had the same problems since they show up the game. I do really want it to succeed but as the bad taste and also since the lackluster Evolve. I don't know what else to say more than been concerned about it.
@@Dimitri9511 I didn't play Evolve, but I understand people actually considered it a pretty good game. It was the monetization that killed it. And if someone told me that Take Two, who "saved" the Evolve project from financial trouble is solely to blame for that monetization, I would believe it. Take Two are also the people who forced Rockstar to keep churning out endless multiplayer DLC for GTA and RDR, instead of making a story DLC. Even when the Rockstar story DLC's of past are so highly regarded and loved. They just have a lower profit margin, so Take Two gave them a red light. Considering all this, I find it hard to blame TRS for Evolve.
@@wtfronsson i got to disagree with that one because of the amount of modes that evolve had only one was the most balanced and it was Hunt, the other modes from the game was the Evac that has 2 modes called Nest and Rescue and the majority of the mode the monster always win (just eat evolve to level 3 and win) and the last one Defense that was a 180° to the whole deal like no matter how garbage your team was on those previous modes on Defense the hunters always win on that mode. So basically in Evolve aside from microtransactions only one of the four modes was the decent of the bunch and at the end people got tired of it that even TR never gave more new content aside from just new hunters and skins instead of more game modes or balanced out the Evac mode.
Man, on the sound design thing. You know its good design when despite the fact its been YEARS since I last played, you can play the infected jingles or any of their sound effects, and i instantly remember exactly what infected will be around the corner
The funny thing is, as pointed out by Crowbcat's video the 'devs behind Left 4 dead' tagline is actually kinda false, most of the minds behind L4D remained at Valve or moved on to different things when Turtle rock split. Only a small handful actually moved with Turtle, and clearly it was none of the ones that knew the smaller more important details that made L4D good.
Crowbcat's video reveals that less than a handful out of the hundred developers from the left 4 dead team created Back 4 Blood. Most of them stayed at Valve.
So people that wanted to make games left to make games, and everyone else that wants a fat paycheck streaming in from a storefront stayed at Valve. What does that have to do with anything lol.
@@WeinerTouchy He’s talking about how 90% of the people who made Left 4 Dead were Valve employees and stayed at Valve, so the 7 Turtle Rock employees who worked on the game getting to call themselves the “creators of Left 4 Dead” is a massive white lie.
@@WeinerTouchy Spoken like someone that doesn't know how shit works at Valve 11 years for Half Life Alyx. Single handedly pushing the VR market as leeches slowly jump on board with low effort trash (aka sony) and setbacks like Oculus and what Facebook pulled But yes all these talented developers just sit on their ass. It's not like people can decide themselves at Valve what they want to work on. Especially with the newest tech A reference these people aren't even 6% of the team that worked on L4D. You know what they did make? Evolve
@@commisaryarreck3974 Sony is a leech because they did something before Valve? Lol okay, talk about not knowing what you are talking about. Stopped reading the boot licking there, whatever you have to tell yourself at night to sleep buddy.
@@WeinerTouchy No, Sony is a leech because they don't innovate, they merely copy whatever becomes popular. Usually with extremely low effort, from PS move to PSVR But sure thing kiddo, Sony did it first, especially before Valve. A company that just sits back and collects money from the storefront and nothing else Ironic that you're calling me a bootlicker considering your own behavior
That absolutely depends on the setting. In some cases what we call "Zombie" doesn't exists in the lore of the game / movie. In this case, the characters have no idea what a zombie is and so they will at first have no idea how to fight them and will give them different names.
I don’t know why but seeing copper having to be used to access a Trauma center pulled me right out of it. Like imagine if you had to shovel 50 bucks to access the Medkits in safe houses.
The man who forgot his turtles and let them freeze is the kind of guy who would forget his kid at the gas station then decide he can just make another later.
Fun fact about the "riddens" In french: Infected = infecté Ridden = infesté So everyone calls them infected because the two words look so much alike and when you read the TIMY AS FUCK descriptions and subtitles, your brain just sees "infecté" like in any other zombie game.
I remember the first time I played L4D beta way back, and it was mind blowingly good. I wish developers would try to captivate people rather than think replicating something they think we want. The little details mean a lot when it comes down to it.
Nitpick time: Louis, the pill-loving Junior Systems Analyst of an IT department, *does* have some combat experience: He goes to a shooting range on a regular basis to practice with... well, guns. His colleagues usually made fun of him for this, but we know who has the last laugh. (Side note, who tf makes fun of someone going to a shooting range?) Also, it's speculated that his naivety, along with his overwhelming optimism, is a self-defence mechanism. As an IT guy, he's as much of a realist as he can be, like Rochelle. Edit: A bit of misinfo fixed in light of a guy in the replies.
There is so many issues even missed with this game. This is coming from a guy who beat the game in nightmare. 1) Special infected generally have very good frontal movement with very bad side movement, so the counter is to move side to side. Okay now do it in a linear sewer that is 2 player models wide. It makes sense in the more bigger open map and they work in their but the second you're inside a house or cramped level the game design falls apart to eating shit. 2) Special infected generally come in 3 variants for each type not going into the video, so the hocker he explained can come in a version that doesn't tie you up but instead rapidly shoots and does a good bit of damage or one that leaps and jockeys you, while also stunning everyone beside you for a good 2 seconds. The tall boi comes in a version that grapples you and has a massive hp bar and can charge forward at mach 10 or one that also slams the area around him in an AOE which makes the trick of running towards him and jumping to dodge the swing into a massive bunch of colossal damage. Exploder changes from massive damage, like enough to take you out in one shot or calling a mini horde. Why is this is an issue, well the WEAK SPOT is how you guess them but how are you going to figure out in the head of the moment the right one and some are impossible to tell from a side view. AS shown in the video both the bruiser (AOE) and tall boy (single target) will cover their spot making it hard to guess and the only variant you can guess is the grappler as his spot is on the neck. The mini horde exploder has no weak spot and the massive explosion one has it on his stomach... so during a horde or a side profile it can tell if you're going to maybe get a mini horde on your friend or kill him. It's one of those things it can become only obvious if you have a side profile view with chargers and a frontal uncovered view with exploders. OR you turn on subtitles and it says [hocker/stinger/stalker noises]. 3)The gun tiers exist, but not all guns are equal like left for dead and that stats are pretty much who's line is it anyways, the points don't matter. There is less guns now as it used to be the mp5/m1a/m4/m16 where terrible guns. Now the MP5 is a good gun... the M1A isn't bad but imagine spam firing 10 bullets when your max sniper ammo capacity is 110 to do as much damage as what 2 bullets will do and after 2 reload cards the phoenix bolt action will out dps you anyway while you need to get cards to fix ammo capacity, he is getting a card that is amazing for any weapon he has even his side arms. M4 is just a gun that is just shit, it's purple tier is on par with white version of other guns and the M16 is just a one tier below ranch rifle... so there is no point to go from a green ranch rifle to a blue m16, it's better to wait for a purple M16 or a blue RR if you want a common clearing assault rifle. But the worst part is the stats mean nothing... effective range of 80M- but most guns suffer from damage drop off start at the 2.5-20m range and max drop off at 12.5-30m range. Firepower is damage or dps? Nope M4 does less damage than every gun in the game but will out firepower the MP5 which does more damage 11 damage per shot vs 10 at a higher rof 900 vs 600. They can't even get gun stats right and have them straight up LIE to the player. If you don't research about this shit you will feel your gun with 90m effective range feels like it's shooting nerf darts since most guns have a 40-50% damage drop off at max range effectively halving your dps even though you're firing at it's supposed "EFFECTIVE RANGE" the gun says. 4) The spawning of all infected is absolute garbage, not even going into the literally spawning a special infected in your face tier shit but there is so many places for things to spawn it can be almost impossible to find a safe spot. Where he said melee was useless before, in nightmare they're a god send for dealing with the common infected later down the line as they have so much hp from killing common infected swarms as 3 cards will make them gods. 1 card will heal you for 2 hp for each thing killed, another will give you 2 temp health to you and every ally in 5m of you and another will give you 2 temp health for everything that dies within 5m of you. So during a swarm you're just becoming a massive heal to your entire team while they just laser focus the specials. BUT good luck finding a spot to camp as so many spots are spawn spots. You literally need meta knowledge to which flesh pile is a spawn pile and which isn't. Which wall they climb over to spawn, which holes can have them spawn there isn't any consistency. It's hilarious the first time seeing a tall boy come out of a fucking tiny ass vent, it's not funny when it's nightmare and it spawns 2 of them in one around the corner and they're both grapplers. 5) Something missed about the Siren, a nightmare card actually makes it pointless to kill and their counter is annoying. Pretty much you have to shoot to get them to the point you want than crouch walk around them as they go to the sound and if they bump into you horde time. Though a card called the shadow removes the killing by mass damaging with allies option as killing will get the horde to come no matter what. There is nightmare cards that put armor on their weak spot making it have almost the same TTK as just going for body shots. I dont mind the nightmare cards but some are just so annoying or changing the base rules. 6) I wont say cards are needed in this game, but the game suffers from some builds just being way better with cards or can prop useless weapon types to god tier. Like melee without cards = shit, melee with cards = god tier. As I pointed above spawn 4x the common infected? enjoy watching your hp climb, your team members hp climb, while they kill the special infected as they can 100% ignore the common infected. Literally having 2 people with a melee build, any spot is a safe spot as you just endlessly swing front and behind in a 180 swing while your two gunners going pure damage with cards like glass cannon/holding their iron sight down for 3 seconds, and a few other cards can make them do as much damage as 2 players in one. 7) There isn't a single really likeable person maybe outside of hoffman and even he doesn't hold a match to L4D characters. They're mostly generic or stereotypical with one trait, imagine francis but his only lines where "I hate X" was his given depth. That's B4B characters. But the big issue even if you like a certain character they have stats and not all characters where made equal there either. So enjoy picking annoying trope that more fits your build vs someone you want to play as.
@@Razumen I was slow to realize B4B was worse than L4D, but this was clear to me pretty quickly. A part of true co-op like L4D, and what B4B tries to be, is being able to alert my teammates what special infected I have noticed being present and make them aware. I can barely tell when playing B4B so reporting was a lot of: "Tall boy! No wait, it was a Crusher!" and "Careful, there is a Wrecth! No actually, it was an exploder".
@@True_Hanman Eh, in some ways it's still a lot of fun. Despite what some people think, the cards add a lot to the game. Also, you can ping specials, and your character will say what type it is. Couldn't do that in L4D.
@@Razumen Didn't need to do that in L4D because the design was unique and your character would talk about it. Adding a feature that used to be automatic is not a good thing.
@@JimJamTheAdmin you're forgetting sound ques that happen when a special infected spawns in L4D Or the design and actual sounds alone indicating it. You can spot a boomer, smoker hunter and any other special infected easily from their silloute Better yet point at a game that does B4B better, Vermintide. Sound ques, character quotes the ability to mark specials. The only decent "left 4 dead clone" on the market
my most memorable moment playing the b4b beta was playing on the ship part with only two people alive. then, two blood bruisers spawned at the same time right on top of us so they instantly grabbed us and we died without any counterplay. that was fun.
My favorite part was refunding that dumpster fire and starting left for dead and feeling the anxiety from the giant shit released in my face after I seen what turtle cock had been half ass working on these last few years wash away god i will never degrade myself like that again
@@mixinthebisquic1238 I played for an hour then uninstalled. Then I watched this video, remembered that I'm still out $60, and got my refund from Steam
They made a frying pan feel like one of the coolest melee weapons in a zombie survival game. If that isn't good sound design, I don't know what is. BONK
Just a heads up staff of L4D and L4D2 are still at valve, like almost every one. Only 3 people are at turtle rock. So back 4 blood isn't made by the creator's of L4D.
The reason the L4D creators aren't doing good on B4B is because ONLY 9 of those creators from the left 4 dead games out of the over 100 creators actually made back 4 blood. The whole "from the creators of left4Dead" is a bunch of truth twisting bullcrap they pulled.
I remember the mall level in LFD2 when you have to fill the car with gasoline. That was the first time I'd ever sat back with my friends and actually came up with a cooperative strategy that didn't just involve blasting and staying alive. Amazing game.
"Turtle rock is good at coming up with ideas for games, but are terrible at actually making games" This is even strengthened by crowbat left4dead proves that valve called back4blood
The reason why *Back 4 Blood* is gonna fail is because they didn't focus on characters and the things that made *TF2,* Both *L4D's,* both *Half-Life* games, and both *Portal* games (even though *Half-Life* and *Portal* have a mute protagonist) so charming and unforgettable. With the *L4D* games you had the cutscenes and the dialogue the characters would say to each other, as well as comics. *Half-Life* was one of the first-ever shooters with a story, not just running in and shooting, but it felt like you were going to work at Black Mesa as *Gordon Freeman.* With *Portal,* you had witty robots cracking jokes to keep you uplifted throughout the game, and *Chell* didn't even need to say a word to make the robots funny. Then you have *Team Fortress 2,* where all of the character's personalities were established within some spectacular shorts, and if you read the comics, you're gonna notice plenty of references the game makes to the comics, which are absolute masterpieces, by the way. But the character shorts *(along with Expiration Date)* made me really care about these characters and want to play as them. For real though if you are reading this comment and haven't seen *TF2's* *"Meet the team"* videos, you should go see those right now. *BUT BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND.* These games all took time to make, and focused on creating an immersive experience for the player, trying to make a story people could play. *Back 4 Blood,* however, didn't really try to give it any lore or characterization. In the *L4D* series you can hear the sadness in each character's voice when one of their teammates dies. In *B4B,* it's just: *"Hoffman down."* Also, with each of the games having unique artstyles, *B4B* chooses to go with the generic (and overused) *"tacti-cool"* aesthetic. I'm afraid that its just gonna be another recycled zombie horror survival shooter.
nah if the game is fun who cares, the characters are the least important thing in a game like this, atmosphere, sound design, and combat aswell as enemy variety take huge priority over the cast being funny or going "sad thing :(" If you only give a shit about what characters do in a video game, youre better off just watching movies dude.
@@Pred. yeah sound design makes games awesome, like in re4 or dead space. I just like seeing what the characters do because it makes it more fun for me to play as them.
@@Nonesovile96 It's as much about the characters as it is about the atmosphere. If you are working on a world that doesn't have charm, and is generic, it will not pick up.
@@Pred. I hope you're kidding because as much as you play it, if the game world doesn't have much substance in it, it'd be as forgettable as the next generic fps shooter. Even games such as dota 2 and league of legends are expanding their universes and as a result, cashing in its success. The characters and how they interact with the world around them is part of the experience. L4d and l4d2 is successful because they managed to nail the atmosphere and character interaction into a very good mix. It's like the difference between a generic fried chicken and kfc. One is just regular, the other is richer and has more substance.
I usually hate game reviews, packed with "the ultimate gaming experience" jargon, but you made this candid and realistic: something all gamers can appreciate in a review. For that you've earned my thumb sir
There's a difference between trying to copy a game and being inspired by it Back 4 blood feels like its trying to BE left 4 dead but also try new things that DON'T work in l4d. The copper system and cards feels like a function straight out of a bad EA game. If you're going to make a game this similar to L4d, at least give it functions that fit. Whenever i see a the phrases "card building" or "dlc" or "weapon rarity" i roll my eyes, especially when it's shoehorned into a game that doesn't need it
The card building is enough to turn me off. I just want to jump in an kill zombies, man - why do I have to deal with some Solitaire BS? Not to mention card building taking away the strategies of the gameplay itself. It's like equipping a card that allows you to one-shot a Witch and Tank. Fun, sure, but where's the challenge in that?
this is a great example of how far triple A gaming has gone back zero heart into the games released and people get hyped to get greatly disappointed. it hurts seeing a game that looks amazing fall at the waist due to incompetent developers or an angry community who wants it now i just want a game with a heart and a soul as it should be
I tried out the B4B beta with friends, and while I will admit, I did get a little bit of enjoyment out of it, it was probably mostly from hanging out with friends and messing around rather than from the actual game itself My biggest complaint is like what you said, it had no soul, Left 4 Dead is Left 4 Dead, no mistaking it, Back 4 Blood seems like just another zombie game, and if it weren’t for the fact that it was so hyped up, it’d be forgotten by the end of the year, even if it was released on December 30th, it’d still do that and be forgotten the next day I also really like the point you made with how Turtle Rock is really good at coming up with ideas, but terrible at executing them, which is why L4D was so great, TR came up with the idea and sown the seeds of the game while Valve designed it and helped it blossom into something beautiful, I think they should do that again, come up with a great game idea, but get a game company who knows how to make a good game to make the game themselves Great work
@@lsmer8994 Yes, and it's completely built on the first game, which is mainly TRS's work. I mean, L4D 2 released only a year after. This is only possible when the game is basically ready, and you are mostly just adding assets and small design elements. Also Valve brought TRS in again to do DLC for L4D 2. So any talk about Valve considering TRS as incompetent or whatever, seems pretty weird. Why are they hiring someone whose work they don't like?
@@wtfronsson Just watch what happened chronologically and come to your own conclusion, but to sum it up Valve did most of the job and quality control and not long after TRS went on their merry way while most of their members joined Valve while others disbanded.
The sad part is that I felt the same way when I was playing it. The simple gameplay loop of L4D was great. I thought it was nostalgia but it was just bc L4D was fun. B4B has all of these complicated loadout options and character buffs that take away from a simple drop in and play mindset. The way I feel about games now are that every game wants to be that hit blockbuster movie but sometimes I just wanna sit and enjoy bite sized portions of a tv show. I'm disappointed that I know I am going to buy B4B.
That was just about the same concept with WWZ. It was supposed to be a "L4D3" or a "replacer" and failed miserably. Granted the hordes were absolutely terrifying, ill give them that, but the special infected lacked oomph. The bull just flopped you around while the stalker just punches and flail their arms on you. The bull didn't have the oomph like the charger did. The chargers pick up and *SLAM* into the ground made you feel the impact and understand the pain from the survivors. The stalker just punches you while the hunter actually rips into a survivor. You can feel and understand the survivors pain, it really complements and emphasizes eachother. They had something good going with the zeke horde but failed at emphasizing the impact behind special infected attacks. One other thing I noticed, both B4B and WWZ didn't have the smooth character development like L4D did. The start where everyone didn't know eachother right off the bat until the elevator. Nick being an absolute asshole of a gambler with no care for his team to actually softening up to his team after a couple campaigns. His heartfelt complements to a fallen member, his sincere remarks about joking about his insults toward ellis when it's only him and ellis left after Ro and Coach died. B4B and WWZ, they just never really hit different. Didnt have the same feeling whereas the survivors in L4D actually feel alive and care
I just think WWZ is very mediocre. The atmosphere in that game is like a kids playground with lots of toys to kill zombies with. Not like a survival scenario I guess. The first person patch helps a little, but even there the execution is only half of what you really expect from a 1st person game. But neither WWZ or B4B were meant to be L4D "replacements". That's you own misconception, or you picked it up from someone else without questioning it. They have their own gameplay draw, and you just need to take a look to understand it's not like L4D to begin with. Moot point.
@@wtfronsson Yeah WWZ was pretty mediocre but as for b4b and wwz being a replacer, I knew it would never be a replacer as I was mocking those who did think that. I've seen so many videos like "oh wwz/b4b is the new l4d3 we'd never get from valve" Or something along the lines. Everytime I would see a video or comment about it, I would just laugh and shake my head as I knew nothing would ever compare to l4ds masterpiece of a game
Bull feels like it's cuddling a puppy on a bed. Charger? *GRARCH* sounds, fucking horrific impact crunch sounds, the sheer blast of it running into a wall hurts you and can even stagger you from the sheer concussive force
I keep imagining Uncle Gaben watching these videos and laughing his ass off, like seeing his classmate trying to copy his homework but failing miserably. I just hope one day he'll bring us l4d3, one of my favorite details of the first 2 games is the characters, they feel real, they talk to each other, the sync perfectly together, they put SO much effort in every single voice line and every bit of dubbing for those games.
Gabe can't count to three. Plus isn't he the one who purposely crapped on Half-Life players by mocking them with " postponing" 3's date whenever someone teased him about bring fat?
Killing Floor enemies are cloned experiments but literally same gameplay concept of wave survival. Most people probably think of it as a zombie game. It had a ton of lore in the early days as a mod but they kind of removed 90% of the story elements upon creating the stand alone.
Im glad about watching this as well as Crowbcat and The Act Man's videos about B4B and LFD2.. its really inspiring how you all share the same topic but give out really different perspectives and points.
This game is so good, it still makes memories for people who picked it up recently. At least, for me. I picked up the game just 3 or 4 years ago and it's my most favorite game in the fucking world. It's GOOD, and nothing else is like it. The game is simple, you head in, you kick ass and its over. No need to think about anything else that's outside of the moment itself. When you pop in the menu, its just add ons (if youre pc) and game options/modes. I love that, it feels so arcade-y. This game means the world to me and I'm sad B4B tries so hard to seem like a successor when it doesn't have the same care at all. At least L4D is always there when you want a kickass zombie shooter to play with friends.
Unfortunately, Valve Time TM. There would've been a TF2 TV series if Valve didn't miss deadlines over and over. We would've gotten the story in comic form instead of they didn't forget about Book 7
I always believed film grain in a game to make it look "cinematic" was stupid and completely wrong to do. However, L4D's art style is supposed to be like a movie, and it's the only game I ever use it on. I turn that dial to the max. I want B4B to be good, I want to like it, and I want it to succeed. However, I think we have another Evolve on our hands...
The L4D developer commentary basically explains the game's art direction, map/level design and co-op gameplay mechanics. Yes it's supposed to be a movie, but a movie whose plot is defined by the characters themselves. That's why it's still played even after 12+ years. As for Back 4 Blood, I think it was doomed in the first place because it's just reinventing the wheel
That Stat of Decay callout was kind of bad because while its grindy its a fairly simple but enjoyable zombie game unlike Back 4 Blood which felt like that annoying little brother trying so hard to fit in.
What a great video dude and such a love letter to the Left 4 Dead series as a whole. I've been playing L4D2 ever since I got it for Christmas 2009 and haven't stopped since. It's a shame that the creators of such an influential game in life can't even do weapon noises properly anymore. What a shame.
Back 4 Blood will never reach the beauty of L4D2. Back 4 blood actually brought back interest in L4D2. I grow up with Xbox 360 and L4D was my first game ever, and my favorite game of all time. I remember when me and my brother found out that you could fly with the pipe bomb, so fun man!
L4D2 was released 15 years ago, i was a kid, the game aged so well, we got around 30k people playing it on steam daily, videos about l4d still get like 100k views, that is some impressive stuff. Valve, PLEASE release LEFT 4 DEAD 3.
I feel like Vermintide 2 is a better spiritual successor to L4D than B4B. Even if it has some selfish mechanics (like those green circles), it has a lot of team based mechanics. In order to get better equipment you need to get collectables in the level: 3 books, 2 grimoires, and loot dice from killing bosses. Carrying a book means that you can't carry healing so you need to rely on you teammates to help you. Grims replace buff potions and will decrease the teams' max health and the only way to get rid of the curse is to destroy the grim. There are meta builds because there are different classes, weapons, talents and randomized attributes on items. In the end there is more incentive to work as a team while also giving opportunity for individual skill to shine.
Not just one, but TWO Kanye related images in the first 30 seconds. I thought you were just a really great video creator, now you're officially on my cream team of perfect content creators
The funniest part about calling yourself a narcissist is that you're almost guaranteed not to be because a narcissist because a narcissist will almost never come to terms with the fact that they are one
8:21 I respect why you'd argue Destiny raids are just 6 man lootfests but it really isn't that true. Anyone who played Last Wish on its release can tell you raids require EVERYONE to be communicating and helping each other.
Yeah what he said about the raids is just blatantly untrue. Anyone who's raided in destiny knows that. This guy either hasn't raided in destiny or is just lying
He is incredibly biased and it is clear as daylights, saying you have to be selfish and play only for yourself WHILE showing games like overwatch, and then saying that L4D is OBJECTIVELY teamwork based and everyone does so, while disregarding many games as otherwise. I get it, people like their game and will cry their eyes out by insulting other games that people enjoy to make their one seem superior. It's sad how L4D's community is riddled with these pricks, the games good, but the community is filled with pretentious fanboys.
Basically it’s the lack of simplicity and freedom, the game is designed to make everything feel like a linear structured experience, progression, combat all of it is structured to much, the progression requires players to be subconsciously selfish and grind/loot for better shit rather than just kill zombies and survive, the enemies aren’t allowed to be random crazy occurrences but rather scripted encounters that require the same approach every time, the maps are linear A-B but don’t even have the illusion of openness or exploration that L4d did, the weapons are structured to be categorized like rpg items, not just whatever you feel like using to kill zombies, the game isn’t as good cause the developers have taken away too much player freedom and made the experience a rigid one.
Why would it be objectively bad or worse to make a game _about_ these systems of progression and added complexity? It's simply different from L4D. If you don't like that then you don't get the game. Personally I'm very much looking forward to unlocking stuff and trying out different builds. What I already know from the beta is that the builds are very much playstyle defining, so I'm calling them a success. I love that the game has all these variables like different ammo types and corruption cards, because it gives me something to think about as I go. I wonder if Payday 2 was also attacked like this when it came out? Because it was also a horde shooter with a lot of added complexity. Or did it not rouse the haters because you shoot cops instead of zombies in that game? lol.
It's the same reason I couldn't get into cold war zombies. In the old games you could play with any gun you wanted, you just had to pap it. That's what I like about l4d is that you could pick up any gun,including the base pistol, and just kill and have fun. But everything is about grinding now and it just sucks the fun out of these casual couch play games
@@ThermalKill24 The card grind in B4B will probably be completed in less than a week. Maybe two weeks if you play shorter sessions. After that you can do any build. Are you really that put off by the idea that a fresh character needs to do just a bit of "leveling up" before everything is unlocked? And sure you can just use any gun *type* and not worry about stuff if the difficulty isn't too high. It might take a while to find the exact weapon you want, but is that really such a bad thing in a supposed zombie survival scenario? I think it's purely a plus that you need to find guns and upgrades as you go. And you won't always have your favorite stuff. Sometimes the ammo might force you to switch off a weapon type, which you'll do early if you're smart about it. Or pick a favorite weapon that's actually ammo efficient, so you'll never need to switch. To me, your idea of fun seems way too simple to keep me interested.
I find that exploration L4D had was bad at times, for new players you'd get lost or waste time. It added issues to the base game flow making it not very friendly to get into. Games which have exploration tend to have maps to compensate for the maze like nature of it.
One of my fond memories is playing l4d2 with my mum as a kid, we always played zombie games together and I even got my name Ellis from Ellis in l4d2! And now I’m still here and zombies are my special interest❤
I feel like all we really need is just a remaster of L4D and L4D2, just those two games but with modern graphics and maybe additional content, that would have been so much better
Can we appreciate for a second how perfect Left 4 Dead 2 improved upon Left 4 Dead 1?
L4D1 taught you that sticking closely together is essential to survive, then L4D2 throws in the same concept but adds a challenge of "Hey, check out these new infected that'll fuck you up if you stick together like glue."
It was the perfect sequel.
Absolutely. I honestly don't get critiques about the 3 new specials being annoying. That's the point of the Jockey, Spitter and Charger. The were created to separate your team to enhance your cooperation with one another.
L4D on 360 was easily one of my most played games on that console. Day after day in high school, either running random lobbies on the hardest difficulty or finding people to play Vs in. I’ve put maybe 50 hours into b4b purely because I want some value for my purchase.
@@AlyJss Out of those 3, Jockey is the only one I saw as annoying in specific, and I think it holds even more true that it was intentional, like his sound, and that it's the point
@@euso2008 I will never forgive those super quiet bot jockeys that come out of nowhere and fuck you up. Especially on a solo run.
The most rare thing in left for dead 2. Is getting knocked like pins from a charger. Getting launched in the air is so engaging like your all stunned for a few seconds enough for other infected to make a play off that charge. That's why I loved the pvp if you got a good charge or a nice jockey snag. That survivor would be dead if the team attacks together which when you pull it off is so fun
Surprisingly, Ellis's story about his friend Keith is 10x more interesting than the rest of B4B dialogue's combined.
*unsurprisingly
How many times can I like this comment?
Buddy, You forgot 17 zeros in that number.
Agre!
I always love how caring coach and Rochelle are to Ellis when he rambles but then nick is always very straight forward telling him that "we don't got time for this shit ellis."
Worth noting that the dev team behind B4B and L4D have very little in common. Crowbcat's video showed that the actual developers who made Left 4 Dead were 90% Valve and 10% Turtle Rock.
not even 10 % to be honest
@ItsAJs out of 183 from the original team like 6 worked on B4B [someone counted the credits from L4D and compared names] which means only 3.3% of the L4D team is even involved.
@@kraigisboss wait i thought it was 7?
6 out of 240 is not "10%"
Valve lists their employees in the credits despite who has actually worked on the game though
From the Creators of Left 4 Dead
Consisting of
- The intern who brought them coffee
- The Janitor who carried around a spare set of keys to let the employees in when they got locked out
- The guy in charge of their Twitter account
you forgot about the guy who accidentally walked into the wrong meeting room, very integral to the game
@@toasthead LOL
I understand that you're trying to be funny, but goddammit you're too accurate for me to take this lightly.
- The guy who only comes in every once in a year and complains that he isn't getting paid enough
Can't believe they fired the guy who did the microwave textures.
The existence of the snitch i just find hilarious. The screamer was a special infected cut from L4D that was removed for being unfun, valve removed it and created the boomer (or retooled him. i think he just exploded and damaged at that point). the screamer was just the snitch, and TR just put it right back in, and low and behold, the idea is unfun.
It's funny because a portion of the L4D fandom wanted the Screamer back. Now we have "Screamers" in WWZ and B4B and people hate it.
@@keku52 Valve found him too frustrating to deal with, when he is visible for like 5 seconds and then sprints away to summon horde on you. Only to possibly repeat same thing again.
@@keku52 Having an enemy that summons a horde and runs away, only to repeat the same process is going to be unfun for the player, imagine trying to get rid of that enemy while a horde of 13 zombies body block you from managing to do that.
And its also very unfun to have to kill a certain enemy just to progress without much difficulty.
The only reason why people ''want it back'' (i bet its like 10 people in this community) is because of how they never got to experience it.
The reason why people wanted to play the HL2 beta instead of the release one is because they want to experience the cut content that never saw the light of release.
Imagine this: the roles are switched, the beta HL2 becomes the release one and the release one becomes the beta, everyone would want to play the beta, because they want to experience the stuff that never got to see the light of release
@@OsnoloVrach I think another reason ppl wanted it to return back then was cus L4D is a well done and fair game, so we all assumed Valve would've found ways to perfect it to fit L4D's mechanics and make it fair. We weren't aware how bad Turtle Rock was at executing their cool concepts until, well, now.
@@keku52 The Screamers in WWZ are good examples of how they should be done. I really enjoy them because they stand out just enough for you to target them, but not enough that they seem way too pit of place. Plus you can easily kill them before they're able to scream given that their weakpoint is the head and takes only 1 or 2 shots to kill
If Back 4 Blood gets Workshop access, the most popular mods will be the L4D reskins/sfx. And that's a fact.
Or the UNO reverse card, L4D will get B4B's map and stuff.
@@firstnamesurname2482 even better!
nope no mods for b4b ever
@@GinpeiWangan what
Update: TR said no mod support and (at this moment) solo-play is severely gimped when it comes to progression via supply point to unlock stuff as well as achievements being disabled. They basically told Solo players to f off
Another highlight of Valve's attention to detail. The first map in l4d2, is the "dead center" You are at the top of those "20 flights of god-damn stairs" The outbreak is still fresh and they still have hope of getting rescued. The dialogue for how they address each other & the environment (what they named the zombies) isn't written in stone yet. They introduce each other on the elevator ride down. When you press "look" on the voice radial menu while looking at another character, it will usually have your character say the name of the character you are looking at on any other map. The map Dead Center is unique in this respect because they will refer to each-other with nicknames instead of their real name before they've had a chance to get to know each other. Some Notable examples. Nick calls Ellis "Overalls" Rochelle calls Ellis "Hee Haw" Coach Calls Ellis "youngin" Ellis Calls Coach "big guy" Many more little subtle things that let you know they just met. When Coach hears a spitter he says "I hear a fat women" When Nick sees a Tank he says 'BIG FREAKIN' ZOMBIE!" When Ellis see's a charger he says "One of those Chargin' things! It makes sense that they haven't agreed upon what to call them yet as the outbreak is still fresh, but by the next map, They know each other's names and agreed upon what to call the zombies. This is part of what makes l4d2 a masterpiece.
Also, in the hotel, all yhe characters have unique lines for getting weapons and addressing each other.
wow, years of playing that game and never knew that. shows how much soul games of yesteryear had even little dialogue changes are so unique and soulful.
@@cisco20211
Only now?
It should become noticeable if you have ever played dead center.
@@a.k8185 I usually played with friends w/voice chat. So truthfully never payed attention to the dialogue all too much
@@cisco20211 The new dialogue changes was only added in TLS update, so it's fair that you've never heard of them unless you started playing after the TLS update.
Fun Fact! The hunter is in parkour gear! The tape he wears reduces air resistance by keeping the thick clothes he wears close to his body! he also wears thick clothes for I believe skin protection
Most of the Special Infected are built around the previous person's life, so the Boomer would have been an overweight person, the Charger/Tank would be bodybuilders or people on steroids, the Smoker would have been someone who smoked (who could've guessed that), etc.
@@Grampa_Swoodi heard the boomer was a chef somewhere long ago
@@Grampa_SwoodThe witch is your average plastic Instagram model
@@SuFoYa i think those were the meet the infected gmod vids f
The tape is round his joints for joint support.
"L4D Devs created B4B as a spiritual successor!"
Yes. About 8 developers that had minimum input as management or design, and were simply codemonkies. 8, out of the what, near 200 to 300 that worked on the original games? Impressive. "From the creators of" is such a lie.
True
Minimum? The co-founders were the ones who had the initial idea for the game and helped direct it to what became Left 4 dead. They were critical in the games inception.
@@Midgedwood they had the initial idea, that's it, valve made everything else, look at the credits, look at the development notes and presentations. Why do you think stating things like "they were integral" means anything? How can you Say how much one person does over another when one does art and one programs, but no it probably wasn't the hundreds of valve employees, it was the 6 devs from turtlerock their entire idea is literally something that was already made in counter strike at the time, it's called zombie survival
@@Midgedwood yeah they had the idea of making a zombie shooter, which isn't very unique. Valve gave the game its identity and soul whilst turtle rock did little to nothing for the game.
Yes yes we all watched the crowbcat's video. Good stuff.
Holly gives boring, half assed exposition about how she watched her family die.
Meanwhile in L4D’s ‘The Sacrifice’ comic (which is completely free btw) it shows how Zoey had to watch her Father kill her mother since she was infected, finding out he was but and then having to kill him, thinking he’d also turn. Then, finding out the Immunity to the Green Flu is passed down from the Father, meaning Zoey's father was likely immune and wouldn’t of turned after all, leaving her to live with that grief. All done in a beautiful illustrated art style that really makes you feel for her.
Back 4 Blood just kind of throws Holly’s grief out there with no build up, and no character development.
i am all for variated female personas and characters, but holly has just felt off since day one. something about her attitude and lines feel like the unironic, or too ironic, hollywood bravado kind of... i dont even know how to describe it. but basically grumpy lines like "ohh here we go again" while facing death threatening situations, when you expect the most to see some hint of nervousness, if not outright panic, or some kind of seriousness, just anything that reflects the visuals. i dont think that i mind as much a superhero like woman with a massive ego, but i did not expect to find that kind of a brave hero with a large ego in a zombie survival co-op game. even though francis fits that description, it comes off purely as ironic, and the others make a laughing stock out of him for it. it is also more like something he pretends to be, and also adds some believable layer to him that he might actually be more intelligent than he shows. i think holly's personality punches too much with too little irony (or too much??) or too little seriousness wedged in
i never thought i would be unable to identify if something is too unironic or too ironic, but it somehow lands in a gray zone where it needs both lol
Valve has a talent of making interesting characters with few simple elements.
For example, compare Mercy from OW to Medic from TF2; Mercy feels rather generic and dull because Blizzard went with the 'she is, like, SOOOOO awesome, but here's also a food she likes to make her quirky and relatable', all while Valve used the simple and smart 'Raised in Stuttgart, Germany during an era when the Hippocratic oath had been downgraded to an optional Hippocratic suggestion' in order to make him way more memorable and likable.
@@Littlevampiregirl100 I like her personality, because to me it feels like she's just putting on a really long act, and there are certain moments where to me at least she hesitates, and a bbit of honesty leaks through. I think her cheery bravado is a coping mechanism, like one of those "If I pretend to be ok long enough, I'll be ok" kind of deals.
@@gamer47e17 i fully back you up for liking her. female characters tend to go under a lot more scrutiny and nitpicking than most other characters, and that comes from both genders. they have a lot higher bar set for them for how they are supposed to be and act in different video games, and it also varies from what each gender expects of them
to generalize it in a narrow way; from the women and girls perspective, they need to be relatable enough in unusual ways and preferably not be tailored to fit only what men want. they are much allowed to stand out in quirky or weird ways, and those ways can vary a lot depending on what kind of woman or girl we are talking about. and from men and boys perspective, its better if they have some or more good qualities about them, like a nice or at least agreeable personality, that they have a good dynamic with male characters, and also being, to some extend, physically attractive or decent looking. and the polar opposite can make these characters very disliked. if they rely on the male gaze, that can put women and girls off and make them annoyed playing these characters, or even just being near them. or if their personality is not meant to be pleasing or challenges others around them, or having very distinct looks not meant to be nice, pleasing, or cute, that can put men off and make them annoyed. so, these needs often clash, because men and women will often want the polar opposite in a female character, making it a very narrow window for what passes as a great character for both. male characters are more agreeable for both genders. (straight) women rarely look for something that suits their female gaze though that need does exist, so men are more often spared from that, and women are also more agreeing with quirky or weird male characters, though this can also go too far and become annoying, but we all have different bars for when that limit is crossed. there are of course also some male characters that are more tailored to fit women's needs, but men are luckily also generally accepting to this need, even if most avoid playing these characters, haha. and then you have characters like francis that are just so badass, all genders find him more than agreeable 🥴
its a very watered down explanation on what both genders like and bordering on stereotypes, but it would take forever to go into depth and explain how and why it is like that, and also covering all the middle grounds where these kind of rules for what makes a good character just doesnt apply
either way, for these two generalized perspectives, this kind of shows both with zoey and rochelle, actually. i think while some women found zoey agreeable and relatable, at least depending on their age and attitude, to some of us, there was also a lot more to be desired from her character. but then, most guys tend to lap up how she is and for being more than agreeable to them, for being physically nice to look at too, some even going great extends to sexualize her, though i dont blame all men for that. but this also spoiled the character for a lot of girls and women, especially those that related to her for being the epitome of an average teenager trying to get by in an unreal and horrifying situation
rochelle received a lot of backlash, though i doubt that came from the female player community, except maybe for a couple few, some who might even have felt pressured for one reason or another. i have had a couple of girl friends over the years who really liked rochelle (that including myself) since day one, and we still do, and we oppose this dislike as best as we can and try to keep this character as our own relatable thing. i think she especially plays a huge role for some women of color, from what i saw in those friends, though i would never put it on them that they have to like this character just for that. overall she is a very down to earth, at best a weird character who owns herself, who opposes or synergizes with the other male characters, and with zoey once they meet, however little that was, in very interesting ways, for a lot of women and girls to perceive. its also refreshing that she is not that straightforward to sexualize, removing a lot of frustrations that comes from that. some will still try to, and considering the hate she used to receive, i guess that is not as annoying as it would be if it was done since the start. just for the reason of how unpopular she has been, then its nice to see her being turned into something positive in whichever way. but really, it should not be necessary for a female character to either be sexual, or cute and sweet, in order to be a great one
for holly, my only problems with her is her personality, though the problem is also a huge one for me. i am just personally not able to perceive it as a coping mechanism with the way it punches so much through. but, if that is literally everyone's one and only problem with her, regardless of gender, then her character is doing pretty well for herself. so, good on you for finding her genuine and likable 🥳
@@Littlevampiregirl100 also francis acts like he is indestructable in trailer and gameplay while screaming like little girl after being downed adds some hillarious characterization
The biggest difference between L4D and B4B in terms of characters is that one group is genuinely try to survive while another one are just a bunch of tryhards.
They're also soulless characters that have boring personalities that are way too unrealistic which also ruined the game in my opinion
Just one look at the B4B survivors was enough for me to ignore playing it.
@@silverlambda3285 this. After watching the trailer (where some annoying person cheerily talks about their little adventure, and the playable characters' traits ) I had to go back to watch the original Left 4 Dead trailer where a bunch of people barely survived and managed to cross a single street.
YESSS, this was one of the biggest things that turned me off of the B4B cast. L4D had the cast fighting to survive while the B4B cast was fighting to get supplies. It felt like they didn't need to be there
@@fearlesspigeon8399 I love another thing in L4D - you have readable silhouettes of the main cast there, so even in bad lightning you can see and know who is who and where.
Interestingly Louis doesn't have any combat experience, but he used to go to the gun range a lot according to the games The Sacrifice comic that they released, so that's interesting
Yeah, Louis was kind of a panicky white bread dude who was paranoid about crime or something. Luckily, it came in clutch for him.
The Snitch is literally an unused concept from L4D. There was a special zombie in a straitjacket that screamed to alert the horde. They decided that it would be a pain to deal with in-game so they cut it and added the horde alerting ability to the Boomer which originally only damaged the player when it blew up just like the Reeker Exploders in B4B.
The clown alerts hordes
I’m glad you brought it up. Its almost like things get left on the cutting room floor for a reason. It feels like the B4b team thought that including cut concepts would be neat but didnt stop to consider why it was not implemented.
@@the.littlest.toaster The clown draws the attention of infected in the area to him, The Boomer spawns a large horde (regardless of how many infected are nearby) to attack survivors who have been boomed. Two very different things.
@@crosby_underscore4987 oh well they're going to die either way cool fact though.
@@the.littlest.toaster Not really, if anything it makes them easier to be killed since they will all be grouped up with the clown meaning high penetration weapons will make quick work of them.
I still to this day yell "Reloading!" Like Francis whenever I'm reloading in a co-op game
*Reee_Load_Ing!*
For me it Bill’s “Whaht thah hell are you doing Francis!”
I still say “got it” like I’m picking up gas cans in Scavenge 😂
When i get annoyed at someone talking too much i say: if i listen to this will this be the last?
In a voice like nick
i still say "get it of me" when hunter is on me
Back 4 Blood has potential, but its bogged down by way too many ideas that feel too shallow. But heres hoping
Whoa i just Found you here
Totally agreed
Same hope
Hello WSG!
Im pretty sure this video summed it up why it just wont ever happen.
Honestly tho, like I feel if the ideas were even just introduced over time it would be better, but everything is just thrown at you all at once, make it feel like a task to understand the game rather than having fun.
The part were he talked about how you can be anyone you want to be in a movie-styled game; I can relate to that an really good example of this (at least for me) is during the finale of the swamp in L4D2 and the boat had arrived, and two people were downed, I had kept running toward the boat, but realized: the other teammate is going back for the others, I stood there, at the boat, contemplating whether or not to abandon them, and so I ran back. A tank and hundreds of zombies lie in the way of my friends. I stare down the tank as I throw my last Molotov, burning away at the common infected, I rush to the tank unloading mag after mag, with my fellow comrades on the ground assisting as best as they can. The tank, finally, drops to the ground. But the constant stream of common infected leaving no time for celebration, I pick up one person, and throw them pills, then grab the other, we all rush to the boat, I staying behind because the rest are low HP. We make it to the boat, and take off, leaving behind the swamp, and beginning the next campaign.
I know this is 6 months later. But I needed to read this. I needed to feel this again. Nostalgic. Thank you lol
I can litterly see you turn to the boat and back again and finally saying "fuck" and runs towards your team mates 😹 would have ben epic if you in the final moment died though but there is always the next time right 😹
still thanks for the great story
I once was the last guy, and there were like 3 tanks, my brother had just been murdered, and I was at 1 health, I heard the commotion, but did not have any courage to look back, I swear a rock nearly hit me and I felt slow, it was so much fun
dude, even reading stories about the game are interesting
Only in L4D
30:52 And let's not forget, each campaign has its own thematically themed horde musics which adds to the atmosphere of each maps.
when the music is Ambatukam
yeah, menacing banjo on Dead Center, crazy violin on Swamp Fever and chaotic trumpet on Parish kick ass
My favorite set of themes has got to be the ones from The Passing.
"thematically themed"
how i've always seen Left 4 Dead was that Turtle Rock CREATED the IDEA of it and laid out the rough ground work, Valve actually refined it
Agreed. That's pretty much TF2, Counterstrike and Dota 2. Peoples ideas refined.
AFAIK, TRS had no involvement with L4D2 whatsoever, it was all Valve.
@@TheMentalgen that is true
@@TheMentalgen That's why it's so good, Valve knew what to do
@@akuisbestgirl2448 yeah, but the original was still dope
I love how they market themselves as "From The creators of Left 4 Dead".
Left 4 Dead was made by the collective effort of 200-250 people named in credits, and only 7 of those people worked on Back 4 Blood.
So it's more like "yeah, few of us kind of were here and there at the time, but 99% of our team is irrelevant to our claim". Oh, and the founders of Turtle Rock Studios, not to take away from them, but they were mainly artists. Bold claim to call yourself the creator when your input on the game was painting textures and making few 3D models.
According to online databases, collaboration between B4B and L4D is so low it's not even on the list, but collaboration between B4B and Evolve is a group 75 people.
Also as of 17th December 2021, Turtle Rock Studios have sold out to Tencent, trying to grab that sweet Chinese revenue. So much for "we want to be free" and other things they were on about in the past.
Selling out to Tencent is such a huge insult. Turtle Rock would be in a much better position today had they just remained a part of Valve.
That marketing is 100% the primary strategy they relied on to sell this game. It's the ONLY reason I got it, I must admit, they played me like a fiddle on this one. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that turned out to be BS. I played the beta for 20 minutes and could immediately tell it was NOT what they had advertised.
Thank god for Steam refunds
Nice profile picture
@@Space_Australian Feel the same, thank god I didnt buy it and thank god for game pass.
Crowbat sums it up beautifully, it's not from the creator of L4D but Evolve
Rochelle can be annoying, I agree, because she can sound bossy at times... but she takes on the role of the group's mother and her interactions with Ellis are so endearing. Coach is more of a laidback yet fun loving dad so I like their contrast. Meanwhile, Nick is the sleazy guy who keeps hitting on Ro while Ellis is a dumb himbo sweertheart (much like Francis, but smarter and less destructive to others and himself)... So yeah, I understand why she isn't the favorite but I don't think I'd have another character than her in the group. She completes their rag tag group. :>
The first time I watched the Back 4 Blood trailer, I felt like the survivors weren't treating the zombie apocalypse seriously.. Left 4 Dead 2's trailer also did not have a serious tone, but it felt more like the survivors just quickly grew tired of the shit apocalypse yet stakes were still on the line.
Also, the trailer of the First L4D shows how the survivors got to the top of the building of the first campaign. Like everything was really explained in that one trailer. Truly a masterpiece.
I think that in the L4D franchise there were gun tiers, like the SPAS would always feel better than the Pump Shotgun, yet it was very simple and not a huge mechanic to follow.
I miss L4D.. sad that we probably won't have a 3rd
"I DID NOT. COME THIS FAR. TO DIE NOW." Says all you need to hear, really.
That, and the emotion, the urgency, that the characters show in the Sacrifice.
They got some measure of 'used to it', but still felt tense as life or death was a constant.
Why do you miss it. It's here alive and fun to play
@@ixams Its been so long since I have played the game especially with friends. Hoping that I could revisit it someday though.
I love L4D1 trailer “son we just crossed the street”
There's something very real about the jokes in L4D, humour is one of the oldest coping mechanisms around and it really reflected that.
In L4D it felt like the survivors were cracking jokes to reassure themselves and improve morale, in B4B it feels like they're telling a joke *to* us so they can appear funny to us.
There's one thing B4B did well. It showed people how amazing L4D really is and how many little details were put into the game to really make it enjoyable. Stuff you probably didn't notice but when you play B4B you feel something is off. Things like the zombie animations, how they react to being burned, how they react to being shot and losing limbs, the destructible environment, how important music is and just so much more.
There is no impact on the gunplay in B4B because the animations are so shit. The game has the sophistication of Killing Floor back in 2009. This team is completely talentless compared to the original developers. I stopped playing after Act 1 because, even with friends, the game was so boring. We will go back to L4D because it’s such a classic.
@@Bendaak Cringe, B4D and L4D2 are both great games, get off your high horse.
@@localdude3702 you’re talking rubbish and clearly haven’t played one of those games.
@@Bendaak Played L4D when it came out with splits screens lol, Don't even bruh
@@localdude3702 Then you’ve obviously not paid attention…
Left 4 Dead's wackiness fits because it's entirely coming _from the characters._ Nick cracking fat jokes at Coach and Louis and Francis giving each other shit is them doing believable coping shit. They're keeping each other's spirits up, cracking wise, but they're not making light of the SITUATION. There's nothing for them to make light of in the situation, they're in a zombie apocalypse. Wackiness in the world is the kind of situational absurdity that also makes sense -- yes you're fighting zombie clowns, but you're at a carnival, it makes sense there'd be clowns there.
It's really easy to miss that distinction, and a lot of writers do. But at the end of the day, your characters are living in the world you've made. It matters to them, or it should.
And some of those jokes can be made reality. Like Nick's joke about "helicopter made of chocolate"...and then you have chocolate skin for helicopter(which probably also has Coach making happy noises).
That's a great way to put it
THIS USED TO BE A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD
aw man, this is bringin back memories.
I'm gonna be a one man cheeseburger apocalypse
KIDDIELAAAND!
Can we stop for cotton candy?
My buddy Keith this one time - *other survivors say to quiet down*
"making light of situation": Popped a cap in his ass! Nice shot! That all you got!?
Not actually going haha zombie apocalypse.
"This is some kinda nightmare zombie apocalypse shit! Shit shit shit, what are we gonna do..."
And I bet you that these voicelines are so heartfelt and character driven you know who they're from without me saying any names.
@@g80gzt 1st is definitely Coach, 2nd is totally Ellis, the 3rd is i forgor, but my bet's on Nick
@@g80gzt
"THIS USED TO BE A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD!"
"AW HELL, IT'S ABOUT TO GET ALL BAGHDAD AND SHIT!"
"OW, SHOOT THE TANK, YOU BLIND SON OF A BITCH!"
"Hey, I found a candybar! ...Whoop... False alarm."
"Poor foodcourt never stood a chance..."
"HELICOPTER. IT IS A HELICOPTER. IF YOU CALL THAT THING A WHIRLYBIRD ONE MORE TIME, I'LL BEAT YOU SO BAD, YOUR SISTER WILL WISH SHE NEVER GAVE BIRTH TO YOU!"
"Don't walk on the dirt, it's historical."
It's just banger after banger quote.
There is a strange infected in B4B called the “Hag”. This has somewhat the same mechanics as the Witch. If hags are shot, they will chase the player. And if they reach them, they will *completely swallow them.*
Yeah, except that one is more realistic durability-wise.
It looks like a mix of a resident evilenemy in a sci-fi monster
One of the differences is that the witch is genuinely scary, whereas the hag is just... Weird.
In left 4 dead they made tons of different animations for falling zombies when you shoot them, depending on where and what. That’s why it feels like each shot makes an impact, BECAUSE IT DOES!
One thing about the cast that's worth touching on is how they look and carry themselves. The old cast had clothes that hinted their upbringing. Francis's biker gear, Bill's uniform, Nick's suit and Ellis's coveralls really painted a picture of where they came from what they were doing before the world went bad. There was big rag tag vibe.
The cast in Back 4 Blood are a military unit that goes on missions together and as such are trained and experienced. However they all are wearing different combinations of survival/tactical gear and as such look samey. Sure you get a unique accessory like Hoffman's glasses but you really don't know what these people were like before the zombies. It's like they only exist known to kill Ridden and do little else
Agree. L4D & L4D2 survivors connect with players better.
Technically speaking that IS true.
Since they are the ONLY people that can fight the infection on fields, humanity made sure that it is their ONLY purpose.
Since everybody else will get infected from being spit on/drinking water/eating crops from infected soil.
These people are an extreme unit because the apocalypse is of EXTREME difficulty. It is almost un-survivable.
And on top of that, they have to fight Kaiju level threats in every city. So…. Yeah.
If they were normal people, they would be DEAD. Instead, they are an elite death-squad collectively funded more by humanity than NASA….
And it directly translates to game
Late to the party but what annoyed me was the ambiance, dialogue and ads. L4D is a horror movie in which characters take themselves seriously, B4B is a fun gore movie but characters know they're in a movie if my analogy makes sense.
@@ClemDiamond It's the bad writing meta garbage of late 2010's Hollywood. B4B characters are safe edgy and have skin-deep diversity.
Trained my ass
I love hearing people talk about l4d2s characters man, it’s one of the best things about the game.
They're basically the epitome of style over substance. No real personalities, no real back stories, no character arcs, not 3 dimensional, no challenges/struggles/growth, etc. They're basically just appealing one liner delivery machines. But still remembered as iconic and that tells you just how good the dialog writing was. Style over substance isn't a bad thing. It's just style of character design. The sole exception is the sacrifice. They actually did a little character writing for that and made a comic for it. But that's the only time they are treated as actual characters. Outside of that it's an overweight health teacher dropping a line about how it used to be a nice neighborhood while in a life or death battle with zombies that they win hands down via their prowess as a health teacher? and for 4 normal people trapped in hell none of them are actually afraid at basically any time. Too busy cooking up that next 1 liner. It's basically 80s action movie rules lol. That's the power of style over substance done right is that none of that matters. As long as they are cool and clever.
@@Ralathar44 “DIE DIE MY DARLINS DIE DIE DIE.”
@@SwishyBros That's just a line from a song lol. The Misfits. It's a pop culture reference lol.
@@Ralathar44 You’re wrong on every front here buddy. I don’t think you could find a single person who agrees with this trash.
@@LilMushroomFella1 K
Something else to mention about the common infected in L4D/L4D2 is they used mocap to mimic each interaction with weapons depending on where they were hit with a melee or shot with a weapon. If you take your time to shoot a single common in different spots or shove it around you really see the uniqueness in each reaction, Valve really put their all in the animations to give life to a seemingly disposable enemy.
In the L4D lore, Louis was a regular at a shooting range before the games take place, so technically no real combat experience, but good with guns.
So
@Mr Pinky My name's Coach, and I KNOW how to shoot a gun.
@Mr Pinky crazy
Ye most of the survivors had some experience with guns prior to the outbreak like Zoey being a fan of zombie movies or Louis having target practice same with Ellis and then there's Bill the one with the most experience being a vet or Francis a biker who definetely has shot a gun in his rebel days just like Nick, i think the only person who didn't have much experience is Rochelle but she has 3 people she can depend on and learn fast with so she's good.
@@greengarnish1711 To add to Zoey; she's also the daughter of a cop, who has trained her.
Even if B4B was better, L4D2 has something it never will.
Steam workshop.
I mean, hell i can mod the game to have beans to replace pills, cry of fear adrenaline to replace the adrenaline shot, cloaker from payday 2 to replaces hunter, payday 2 medic bags to replace the first aid kits, wobbly ak-47 and so much more thanks to the workshop, this is why i love l4d2
Then I hope they do add modding support in the future
@@Undercover3267 I have Spider-Man, Hex, Isabelle, and Bass, fight hordes of Minecraft zombies, using Halo weapons, Despenser medkits, and cookie cats. While Ronald McDonald, Wario, Homer, Kazooie, (From Banjo-Kazooie.) Green goblin, Jacket, And last but not least, Peter Griffin, try to kill them.
BTW, I have turned Bass and Wario into, Susie and Snorlax respectfully
@Android 21 ack
@@Lord_Seraph damn that's a complete set ngl
Reminder that turtlerock were the ones who took counter strike, and dropped in a bunch of bots with knives and said, quote "it was already fun to play, we just needed to make it look good". Valve were the ones who added the special infected, the director, and all the little nuances and systems that made L4D what it is.
‘’now we just need to make it look good’’
(pyro talk)
‘’what, we can’t do that ourselves? Ok then, VALVE, MAKE THIS GAME LOOK GOOD’’
‘’ok’’
(turtle rock staying doing nothing of the game)
Turtle Rock actually didn't really have as much to do with Left 4 Dead 2. L4D2 was soley created to phase out Left 4 Dead 1 and take Turtle Rock out of the picture, which is why L4D2 was created less than a year after the release of L4D1.
Not a lot of people know that, and I noticed you got that wrong in your video, so I thought I would clarify. Left 4 Dead 2 was less of a Turtle Rock thing and mostly a Valve Project.
Proof?
oh wow
@@omni6982 its common knowledge dawg
Listen, l4d2 took less than a year due to REUSED ASSETS……..like oh yeah they totally made whole new models for the hunter, smoker, boomer, witch and the tank…….no they made new maps, 4 new survivors, and added 3 new special infected………you did little to no research or have any paying attention skills
@@AwesomVideoGameClips they did actually re-model the boomer, hunter, tank, smoker and witch…. Even the guns that were in 1.
The whole movie thing for L4D is something I have never really thought about until I grew older
And even then it wasn't a thing I thought about too deeply outside of "hey this loading screen is like a movie poster"
But really thinking about it, the whole movie schtick could not be any more true
I remember playing the last act of No Mercy with friends and one thing I would mostly do is whenever the chopper arrives, just stay on the minigun until I died
Would it be faster to just get on? Absolutely but I stood on the gun like how the bird man says it, a sacrifice
Unnecessary sacrifice but still. The fact that each play through with the mindset of playing through a movie is just great on top of the fantastic game design. I need to play it with my friends again
I think it worked better as a series like each map in the game is an episode though there's already Walking dead.
A concept that is lost in today's games, "Be complete on release". I'm so tired of games that release incomplete and patch to "competent". I want games to feel good day one. Not to feel like Im some studios' QA/Beta tester.
There's something I liked about B4B but the more I look at it, the more I realize it reminds me of what L4D gave me and not what B4B is.
Thanks for the break down, it was enjoyable to watch.
If you're really itching for left 4 dead style games that are actually good, I'd highly recommend vermintide 1 and 2. It may not be the exact same, but SO much more care was put into those games than back 4 blood. And they really nailed the atmosphere and punchy satisfying combat similar to how l4d did.
@@johnsullivan937 Good recommendations, played both actually! Though going to Vermintide 1 AFTER 2 was a bad call lol.
Left for Dead is everything I want modern games to be.
No Fear of Missing Out, no Microtransactions, No Battlepass, no Progression (barring achievements) No arbitrary perk system, loadouts or cosmetics (and for people who want those features, they are easily modded in.)
None of that stupid shit
You just jump into the game, choose your character, pick up whatever gun happens to spawn in the safehouse, and GO.
this is a straightest and truest complain i would like to read
Exactly. Most games add all these grinds or other nonsense in order to retain players. L4D has no grind, yet it retains players due to the simple fact that it's fun, and is very moddable.
Though tbh, i wouldn't say no to a cosmetic system. But, like you've said, we can sorta have that with mods.
You should try GTFO
these types of games are called casual games. not made for competitive play, but for fun casual entertainment, something AAA game publishers and execs have no idea what is because they've thrown quick play and LAN parties out the window in favor of ranked games and global play
i’d agree but i personally think we’ll done progression is a very fun thing
it's not a zombie game, but i feel like Deep Rock Galactic nails the co-op survival style of game with a unique setting and art direction so well.
the voice lines of the dwarves overlap a bunch but giving them all a different pitch is somehow still enough to make them identifiable.
Plus, the game monetisation is incredibly generous compared to similar modern games, just a few cosmetic dlc packs, everything else the devs just toss at you for free.
If you enjoyed L4D, give DRG a shot, i promise you you won't regret it
I can also suggest Warhammer Vermintide 1 and 2 as nice alternatives for Left 4 Dead.
Oh isn't that the ps plus game for this month? I might download it and play it then.
@@Darkray800 i believe it is, it just got a PlayStation release and i have heard talk that it was on ps+
@@Darkray800 you really should, it is so much fun and so addictive
Im glad someone mentioned DRG! I found myself being reminded of it a couple of times whenever he praised the gameplay and mechanics of L4D. Its such a great game its criminally underrated for what it is
I just wish Valve would have made a Left 4 Dead 3, or a Half Life 3, or a Team Fortress 3. Keep these franchises going, not leave them in darkness.
Just make games again Valve. We hate you, but we love you.
Gabe is playing all those games& laughing at us
Nigga they dropped a new half life not that long ago I feel you but it's not like they killed the franchise, I can't say the same for LFD or TF though so rip
@@honeychubbs I had a feeling someone would bring up Alyx.
So, at the risk of getting people's dandruff up, I don't consider it on the same level of Half Life 3. If not for the ending, I'd call it a spinoff. That said, I personally still see Alyx as a spinoff that tries to bounce into a Half Life 3 that may or may not happen.
Valve never kills their franchises, just leaves them missing in action.
The main reason because Valve is now focused more on research rather than development. HL Alyx was meant to be a market test for their new Source engine which surprisingly did pretty well. Additionally they made the Steam deck which looks pretty good but I'm not gonna judge until it releases.
We might as well just give up on having future Valve game releases and hope somebody actually uses the Source 2 Engine to create similar games
a Franchise does not die by the developers but by the players.
I like that even character outfits can be incredibly memorable for being so simple. Louis in his workplace outfit, Nick in his expensive looking suit, Coach in his school coaching attire, Francis being a biker dude with his vest, and even Ellis with just jeans, his iconic T-shirt and a hat.
Could be partially because the outbreak is still relatively new for them
What do these new characters have? Awful amounts of clothes with so many layers.
Edit: y’all gotta calm down.
Also, I do now know that Ellis has coveralls and not jeans
It's a small thing, but worth pointing out that Ellis's "jeans" are a pair of coveralls that he's not wearing "properly". A little thing that just helps add to his design/personality.
And being token characters that virtue signal towards people that follow the anti western culture agenda
@@NhBleker Or a lame ripoff of Harley Quinn narrating trailers like some kind of Le Quirky badass
@@galanga21890 He’s annoying but has personality at the same time. Ellis is my second favorite survivor purely for his stories alone.
@@NhBleker oh boohoo the game has the women and the black people boohoohoo
"You should be having fun, it's a video game" this really hits on the current situation on video games.
I play ZOMBIE games for immersion.
L4D is the opposite of it.
I wish L4D was a “Project Zomboid with special infected”…. But instead it is the opposite.
The whole POINT of zombie apocalypse is that you can DIE.
Scratch = infection = death. Ammo is scarce. Acid flung into you = death. Exploding zombie = instant death. Slap by a tank = death.
Horde = no resources = death.
L4D is backwards in design. Zombies are supposed to be tough as nails, but they die in under a second.
Survivors are supposed to be squishy, but it takes nothing short of dropping them from 10 stories by an oversized infected to actually kill them.
I hate this whole “survivors are damage sponges” thing. Ruins the game for me.
It is NOT fun. It is not immersive.
It is not well balanced (feast-or-famine stuff where abusing environment and teamwork is more important than individual accomplishment). And it SUCKS to play zombies (unlike playing monster in “Evolve” or playing killer in “Last Year”).
@@kingol4801 weakest bait ever, nothing you complained about even made sense lmao. try a better bait comment next time,.
@@kingol4801It's called expert realism. Troll.
@@kingol4801too long to be good bait lol
@@kingol4801 prolly just a troll but Realism Expert is what you just described. Also, Adrenaline can make you very tough even if you are as weak as vases, making you run in one hour even if you have a permanent knee injury. They also use medical kits/first aid kits which (assumed) they can battle infections or even tetanus (A first aid contains not only bandages but dressings). Spitter's acid is stomach acid, which takes many, many time to even dissolve you. Also, boomer exploding isn't literally a bomb, its the system of the boomer that self-explodes the vomit it stores. A tank can also down you instantly within one hit in REALISM. The infected being very weak is an intentional design because the green flu's symptoms makes them malnourished and weakened. They aren't immune to other infected, or even to their own attacks. The survivor sponge is very fair, and there's something called incapacitation. It is well balanced because valve designed you to feel the music, forced to be cooperative with your team, and always look out for your team. It doesn't suck to play zombie because it also requires teamwork to injure the survivor team. For example, the spitter can block off an entrance while a smoker grabs a survivor.
"He's voiced by Rigby". Why did this make me laugh so hard lmao
Same
Odd...
The Jockey in l4d2 is voiced by Squilliam...
I bet The Charger is voiced by Leeroy Jenkins
@@HumperJumper69 indeed
The fact Microsoft was forcing valve to make players pay for DLCs on xbox is the reason why TF2 on xbox never got updated past 2009.
Oh, so that’s why, always wandered about that
As far as I know they don’t do that anymore, for a while actually, kinda wish valve did go back and re release the orange box for this generation, maybe add portal 2 and csgo to the mix, along of course with an updated version of team fortress 2, but it’s just a dream at this point, or a nightmare with how much it haunts me that they won’t do it.
@@joescannoli7660 I think the old school players hate the fact TF2 turned into Hat Fortress 2.
@@fighter5583 I don't really mind it, I like having extensive customisation in my games...
but if there are so many hats that you have to dial the graphical fidelity of every other aspect of the game down, maybe it's time to stop
I never knew that
Playing L4D and hearing the horde music gives feelings of adrenaline, but also tensity and fear. The music when a witch is around has build up until you actually see and startle her. All of the piano or violin pieces when a special infected is around are played in a way where it *convinces* you that something threatening is around. The soundtrack in L4D is one of the best pieces of composing in gaming.
Hearing a tank makes me nearly shit myself 10 times out of 10. I slow to a crawl or hang behind the trailblazers because I don't want to suddenly get my ass clapped in a janitor closet with a tank.
So true. Hearing that three tune tone of an incoming horde really does tense me up like no other. That three tune tone instill both fear and also increases ones awareness of ones surrounding too lest the group spots the horde way too late for a pipe bomb to be useful.
The most nostalgia I got from left 4 dead is when me and my friends play that one campaign with the gnome and everybody took turns smashing zombies with it.
Crazy to think this video wouldn’t of existed if I never carried you in left for dead
Are u rick ross
Great Name Adam
have*
Wouldn't have ≠ wouldn't of
You mixed of with ‘ve
As a gamer I’m glad you acknowledge that fact that even though there are a lot of multiplayer and “co-op”games they’re really not co-op in the sense that the game doesn’t really care if you work together more as people playing together but for their own personal reasons
Reasons why that Deep Rock Galactic and Vermintide make their homework of how to make a good Co-op game liked Left 4 Dead but not as a replacement, but as something unique.
Side note: Payday and GTFO does count too but that's another story.
But B4B does have unique systems. About 90% of people talking about the game, just don't seem to have any details on what B4B actually is. We already saw playstyle/role defining builds in the beta. We saw complex resource management in many mechanics. And so many people want to gloss all that over, and complain about how it's not the perfect L4D sequel. Exercise in futility if I ever saw one.
Is your problem actually that the enemies are zombies, and they used "creators of L4D" in the trailer? And this means that "they are trying to replace L4D, therefore the game sucks" Can you see how silly that is? Give the game and it's mechanics an honest look, maybe you can actually make an informed decision if you like it or not.
@@wtfronsson i did played the Alpha and the Beta fir B4B and it still had the same problems since they show up the game. I do really want it to succeed but as the bad taste and also since the lackluster Evolve. I don't know what else to say more than been concerned about it.
@@Dimitri9511 I didn't play Evolve, but I understand people actually considered it a pretty good game. It was the monetization that killed it.
And if someone told me that Take Two, who "saved" the Evolve project from financial trouble is solely to blame for that monetization, I would believe it. Take Two are also the people who forced Rockstar to keep churning out endless multiplayer DLC for GTA and RDR, instead of making a story DLC. Even when the Rockstar story DLC's of past are so highly regarded and loved. They just have a lower profit margin, so Take Two gave them a red light. Considering all this, I find it hard to blame TRS for Evolve.
@@wtfronsson i got to disagree with that one because of the amount of modes that evolve had only one was the most balanced and it was Hunt, the other modes from the game was the Evac that has 2 modes called Nest and Rescue and the majority of the mode the monster always win (just eat evolve to level 3 and win) and the last one Defense that was a 180° to the whole deal like no matter how garbage your team was on those previous modes on Defense the hunters always win on that mode.
So basically in Evolve aside from microtransactions only one of the four modes was the decent of the bunch and at the end people got tired of it that even TR never gave more new content aside from just new hunters and skins instead of more game modes or balanced out the Evac mode.
@@wtfronsson card system is the worst mechanic to add in a shooter
Man, on the sound design thing. You know its good design when despite the fact its been YEARS since I last played, you can play the infected jingles or any of their sound effects, and i instantly remember exactly what infected will be around the corner
“Do do dun donnn”
The funny thing is, as pointed out by Crowbcat's video the 'devs behind Left 4 dead' tagline is actually kinda false, most of the minds behind L4D remained at Valve or moved on to different things when Turtle rock split.
Only a small handful actually moved with Turtle, and clearly it was none of the ones that knew the smaller more important details that made L4D good.
Crowbcat's video reveals that less than a handful out of the hundred developers from the left 4 dead team created Back 4 Blood. Most of them stayed at Valve.
So people that wanted to make games left to make games, and everyone else that wants a fat paycheck streaming in from a storefront stayed at Valve.
What does that have to do with anything lol.
@@WeinerTouchy He’s talking about how 90% of the people who made Left 4 Dead were Valve employees and stayed at Valve, so the 7 Turtle Rock employees who worked on the game getting to call themselves the “creators of Left 4 Dead” is a massive white lie.
@@WeinerTouchy
Spoken like someone that doesn't know how shit works at Valve
11 years for Half Life Alyx. Single handedly pushing the VR market as leeches slowly jump on board with low effort trash (aka sony) and setbacks like Oculus and what Facebook pulled
But yes all these talented developers just sit on their ass. It's not like people can decide themselves at Valve what they want to work on. Especially with the newest tech
A reference these people aren't even 6% of the team that worked on L4D. You know what they did make? Evolve
@@commisaryarreck3974 Sony is a leech because they did something before Valve? Lol okay, talk about not knowing what you are talking about.
Stopped reading the boot licking there, whatever you have to tell yourself at night to sleep buddy.
@@WeinerTouchy
No, Sony is a leech because they don't innovate, they merely copy whatever becomes popular. Usually with extremely low effort, from PS move to PSVR
But sure thing kiddo, Sony did it first, especially before Valve. A company that just sits back and collects money from the storefront and nothing else
Ironic that you're calling me a bootlicker considering your own behavior
Tip for any zombie writers: Just call the zombie zombies! Not anything else
Yeah but infected sounds dope
If they look like zombies and walk like zombies, well
@@MissFazzington the characters in Left 4 Dead calls the zombies zombies though
Bill: "Dammit, Francis, they are ZOMBIES, not vampires!"
One of my favorite lines, makes me laugh every time.
That absolutely depends on the setting. In some cases what we call "Zombie" doesn't exists in the lore of the game / movie. In this case, the characters have no idea what a zombie is and so they will at first have no idea how to fight them and will give them different names.
I don’t know why but seeing copper having to be used to access a Trauma center pulled me right out of it. Like imagine if you had to shovel 50 bucks to access the Medkits in safe houses.
Medkits that might not even spawn. Imagine spending some dumb credit you grind your ass off for only to find 1 pills in the four slots in a saferoom
The man who forgot his turtles and let them freeze is the kind of guy who would forget his kid at the gas station then decide he can just make another later.
Fun fact about the "riddens"
In french:
Infected = infecté
Ridden = infesté
So everyone calls them infected because the two words look so much alike and when you read the TIMY AS FUCK descriptions and subtitles, your brain just sees "infecté" like in any other zombie game.
Timy
Yeah the Ridden and ridden/infested with parasite like worms.
They're not 'infected' by a virus of some kind.
I do miss Bill sometimes...
Packwatch
RIP The Badass old man that ever live William "Bill" Overbeck you were my favourite and always be untill the end
@@DocVolteer yeah he didn't have a nice ending and he's now trapped with the entity in dead by daylight
@@ash_j_williams the voiceactor died irl
@@aetherian31 I know I was referring to the character though
I remember the first time I played L4D beta way back, and it was mind blowingly good. I wish developers would try to captivate people rather than think replicating something they think we want. The little details mean a lot when it comes down to it.
Nitpick time:
Louis, the pill-loving Junior Systems Analyst of an IT department, *does* have some combat experience: He goes to a shooting range on a regular basis to practice with... well, guns. His colleagues usually made fun of him for this, but we know who has the last laugh.
(Side note, who tf makes fun of someone going to a shooting range?)
Also, it's speculated that his naivety, along with his overwhelming optimism, is a self-defence mechanism. As an IT guy, he's as much of a realist as he can be, like Rochelle.
Edit: A bit of misinfo fixed in light of a guy in the replies.
atleast the ones who were laughing are no more
But seriously tho who the fuck would make fun of someone who goes to a shooting range regularly?
@@Tobi-co3hy maybe they were Democrats
grabbin' pills...
Can’t forget he also plays counter strike
HES BACK GENTS
Imagine being exist lol
There is so many issues even missed with this game. This is coming from a guy who beat the game in nightmare.
1) Special infected generally have very good frontal movement with very bad side movement, so the counter is to move side to side. Okay now do it in a linear sewer that is 2 player models wide. It makes sense in the more bigger open map and they work in their but the second you're inside a house or cramped level the game design falls apart to eating shit.
2) Special infected generally come in 3 variants for each type not going into the video, so the hocker he explained can come in a version that doesn't tie you up but instead rapidly shoots and does a good bit of damage or one that leaps and jockeys you, while also stunning everyone beside you for a good 2 seconds. The tall boi comes in a version that grapples you and has a massive hp bar and can charge forward at mach 10 or one that also slams the area around him in an AOE which makes the trick of running towards him and jumping to dodge the swing into a massive bunch of colossal damage. Exploder changes from massive damage, like enough to take you out in one shot or calling a mini horde. Why is this is an issue, well the WEAK SPOT is how you guess them but how are you going to figure out in the head of the moment the right one and some are impossible to tell from a side view. AS shown in the video both the bruiser (AOE) and tall boy (single target) will cover their spot making it hard to guess and the only variant you can guess is the grappler as his spot is on the neck. The mini horde exploder has no weak spot and the massive explosion one has it on his stomach... so during a horde or a side profile it can tell if you're going to maybe get a mini horde on your friend or kill him. It's one of those things it can become only obvious if you have a side profile view with chargers and a frontal uncovered view with exploders. OR you turn on subtitles and it says [hocker/stinger/stalker noises].
3)The gun tiers exist, but not all guns are equal like left for dead and that stats are pretty much who's line is it anyways, the points don't matter. There is less guns now as it used to be the mp5/m1a/m4/m16 where terrible guns. Now the MP5 is a good gun... the M1A isn't bad but imagine spam firing 10 bullets when your max sniper ammo capacity is 110 to do as much damage as what 2 bullets will do and after 2 reload cards the phoenix bolt action will out dps you anyway while you need to get cards to fix ammo capacity, he is getting a card that is amazing for any weapon he has even his side arms. M4 is just a gun that is just shit, it's purple tier is on par with white version of other guns and the M16 is just a one tier below ranch rifle... so there is no point to go from a green ranch rifle to a blue m16, it's better to wait for a purple M16 or a blue RR if you want a common clearing assault rifle.
But the worst part is the stats mean nothing... effective range of 80M- but most guns suffer from damage drop off start at the 2.5-20m range and max drop off at 12.5-30m range. Firepower is damage or dps? Nope M4 does less damage than every gun in the game but will out firepower the MP5 which does more damage 11 damage per shot vs 10 at a higher rof 900 vs 600. They can't even get gun stats right and have them straight up LIE to the player. If you don't research about this shit you will feel your gun with 90m effective range feels like it's shooting nerf darts since most guns have a 40-50% damage drop off at max range effectively halving your dps even though you're firing at it's supposed "EFFECTIVE RANGE" the gun says.
4) The spawning of all infected is absolute garbage, not even going into the literally spawning a special infected in your face tier shit but there is so many places for things to spawn it can be almost impossible to find a safe spot. Where he said melee was useless before, in nightmare they're a god send for dealing with the common infected later down the line as they have so much hp from killing common infected swarms as 3 cards will make them gods. 1 card will heal you for 2 hp for each thing killed, another will give you 2 temp health to you and every ally in 5m of you and another will give you 2 temp health for everything that dies within 5m of you. So during a swarm you're just becoming a massive heal to your entire team while they just laser focus the specials. BUT good luck finding a spot to camp as so many spots are spawn spots. You literally need meta knowledge to which flesh pile is a spawn pile and which isn't. Which wall they climb over to spawn, which holes can have them spawn there isn't any consistency. It's hilarious the first time seeing a tall boy come out of a fucking tiny ass vent, it's not funny when it's nightmare and it spawns 2 of them in one around the corner and they're both grapplers.
5) Something missed about the Siren, a nightmare card actually makes it pointless to kill and their counter is annoying. Pretty much you have to shoot to get them to the point you want than crouch walk around them as they go to the sound and if they bump into you horde time. Though a card called the shadow removes the killing by mass damaging with allies option as killing will get the horde to come no matter what. There is nightmare cards that put armor on their weak spot making it have almost the same TTK as just going for body shots. I dont mind the nightmare cards but some are just so annoying or changing the base rules.
6) I wont say cards are needed in this game, but the game suffers from some builds just being way better with cards or can prop useless weapon types to god tier. Like melee without cards = shit, melee with cards = god tier. As I pointed above spawn 4x the common infected? enjoy watching your hp climb, your team members hp climb, while they kill the special infected as they can 100% ignore the common infected. Literally having 2 people with a melee build, any spot is a safe spot as you just endlessly swing front and behind in a 180 swing while your two gunners going pure damage with cards like glass cannon/holding their iron sight down for 3 seconds, and a few other cards can make them do as much damage as 2 players in one.
7) There isn't a single really likeable person maybe outside of hoffman and even he doesn't hold a match to L4D characters. They're mostly generic or stereotypical with one trait, imagine francis but his only lines where "I hate X" was his given depth. That's B4B characters. But the big issue even if you like a certain character they have stats and not all characters where made equal there either. So enjoy picking annoying trope that more fits your build vs someone you want to play as.
The Special infected having variants with no easy and fast way to differentiate between them really is bullshit.
@@Razumen I was slow to realize B4B was worse than L4D, but this was clear to me pretty quickly. A part of true co-op like L4D, and what B4B tries to be, is being able to alert my teammates what special infected I have noticed being present and make them aware. I can barely tell when playing B4B so reporting was a lot of: "Tall boy! No wait, it was a Crusher!" and "Careful, there is a Wrecth! No actually, it was an exploder".
@@True_Hanman Eh, in some ways it's still a lot of fun. Despite what some people think, the cards add a lot to the game.
Also, you can ping specials, and your character will say what type it is. Couldn't do that in L4D.
@@Razumen Didn't need to do that in L4D because the design was unique and your character would talk about it. Adding a feature that used to be automatic is not a good thing.
@@JimJamTheAdmin you're forgetting sound ques that happen when a special infected spawns in L4D
Or the design and actual sounds alone indicating it. You can spot a boomer, smoker hunter and any other special infected easily from their silloute
Better yet point at a game that does B4B better, Vermintide. Sound ques, character quotes the ability to mark specials. The only decent "left 4 dead clone" on the market
I think Valve carried Left 4 Dead a lot more than people realise.
my most memorable moment playing the b4b beta was playing on the ship part with only two people alive. then, two blood bruisers spawned at the same time right on top of us so they instantly grabbed us and we died without any counterplay. that was fun.
My favorite part was refunding that dumpster fire and starting left for dead and feeling the anxiety from the giant shit released in my face after I seen what turtle cock had been half ass working on these last few years wash away god i will never degrade myself like that again
I remember when 5 tall boys spawned at the same time and killed me and my friend instantly
@@mixinthebisquic1238 I played for an hour then uninstalled.
Then I watched this video, remembered that I'm still out $60, and got my refund from Steam
@@LaVitr_e that happens way too often
The most memorable melee noises from lfd2 is the guitar,and the pan idk why but feels really good
They made a frying pan feel like one of the coolest melee weapons in a zombie survival game. If that isn't good sound design, I don't know what is.
BONK
@@ZodiacEntertainment2 until it becomes a headache for Team Fortress 2. Idk, for better or worse, I guess
“SPAAANG” - Ellis
Just a heads up staff of L4D and L4D2 are still at valve, like almost every one. Only 3 people are at turtle rock.
So back 4 blood isn't made by the creator's of L4D.
22:50 I think when zoey ask for that dream, she didn't think that it would literally happened
The reason the L4D creators aren't doing good on B4B is because ONLY 9 of those creators from the left 4 dead games out of the over 100 creators actually made back 4 blood. The whole "from the creators of left4Dead" is a bunch of truth twisting bullcrap they pulled.
You watched Crowbcat video too?
*Turtle Rock Publishes game*
Everyone:
Buys B4B
Gets L4D2 Nostalgia
Starts playing L4D2
Never Stops.
I remember the mall level in LFD2 when you have to fill the car with gasoline. That was the first time I'd ever sat back with my friends and actually came up with a cooperative strategy that didn't just involve blasting and staying alive. Amazing game.
"Turtle rock is good at coming up with ideas for games, but are terrible at actually making games"
This is even strengthened by crowbat left4dead proves that valve called back4blood
The reason why *Back 4 Blood* is gonna fail is because they didn't focus on characters and the things that made *TF2,* Both *L4D's,* both *Half-Life* games, and both *Portal* games (even though *Half-Life* and *Portal* have a mute protagonist) so charming and unforgettable. With the *L4D* games you had the cutscenes and the dialogue the characters would say to each other, as well as comics. *Half-Life* was one of the first-ever shooters with a story, not just running in and shooting, but it felt like you were going to work at Black Mesa as *Gordon Freeman.* With *Portal,* you had witty robots cracking jokes to keep you uplifted throughout the game, and *Chell* didn't even need to say a word to make the robots funny. Then you have *Team Fortress 2,* where all of the character's personalities were established within some spectacular shorts, and if you read the comics, you're gonna notice plenty of references the game makes to the comics, which are absolute masterpieces, by the way. But the character shorts *(along with Expiration Date)* made me really care about these characters and want to play as them. For real though if you are reading this comment and haven't seen *TF2's* *"Meet the team"* videos, you should go see those right now. *BUT BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND.* These games all took time to make, and focused on creating an immersive experience for the player, trying to make a story people could play. *Back 4 Blood,* however, didn't really try to give it any lore or characterization. In the *L4D* series you can hear the sadness in each character's voice when one of their teammates dies. In *B4B,* it's just: *"Hoffman down."* Also, with each of the games having unique artstyles, *B4B* chooses to go with the generic (and overused) *"tacti-cool"* aesthetic. I'm afraid that its just gonna be another recycled zombie horror survival shooter.
Just smoke have fun and play the fucking game geez
nah if the game is fun who cares, the characters are the least important thing in a game like this, atmosphere, sound design, and combat aswell as enemy variety take huge priority over the cast being funny or going "sad thing :(" If you only give a shit about what characters do in a video game, youre better off just watching movies dude.
@@Pred. yeah sound design makes games awesome, like in re4 or dead space. I just like seeing what the characters do because it makes it more fun for me to play as them.
@@Nonesovile96 It's as much about the characters as it is about the atmosphere. If you are working on a world that doesn't have charm, and is generic, it will not pick up.
@@Pred. I hope you're kidding because as much as you play it, if the game world doesn't have much substance in it, it'd be as forgettable as the next generic fps shooter.
Even games such as dota 2 and league of legends are expanding their universes and as a result, cashing in its success.
The characters and how they interact with the world around them is part of the experience. L4d and l4d2 is successful because they managed to nail the atmosphere and character interaction into a very good mix.
It's like the difference between a generic fried chicken and kfc. One is just regular, the other is richer and has more substance.
I usually hate game reviews, packed with "the ultimate gaming experience" jargon, but you made this candid and realistic: something all gamers can appreciate in a review. For that you've earned my thumb sir
thanks for the nostalgia trip
Crazy how you just dropped one of the best videos on this website and dipped
It tickled me how amused you were while mentioning the actor played by Rigby. Made me chuckle. And then sub.
There's a difference between trying to copy a game and being inspired by it
Back 4 blood feels like its trying to BE left 4 dead but also try new things that DON'T work in l4d. The copper system and cards feels like a function straight out of a bad EA game. If you're going to make a game this similar to L4d, at least give it functions that fit. Whenever i see a the phrases "card building" or "dlc" or "weapon rarity" i roll my eyes, especially when it's shoehorned into a game that doesn't need it
The card building is enough to turn me off. I just want to jump in an kill zombies, man - why do I have to deal with some Solitaire BS?
Not to mention card building taking away the strategies of the gameplay itself. It's like equipping a card that allows you to one-shot a Witch and Tank. Fun, sure, but where's the challenge in that?
"130$ worth of DLC content!"
*Paradox players:*
130 dollars dam
DoA players:
I mean I can totally buy no step back I don't need to have a freezer I can just use the one in the shop
The Sims 4 players:
seriously though who the fuck would pay a thousand euros just to make a guy with no free will live a better life than them?
Correction: Louis actually went to the gun range several time before the pandemic.
30:08 I get chills and ptsd from this sound. The most bone chilling sound I’ve ever heard as a kid.
this is a great example of how far triple A gaming has gone back zero heart into the games released and people get hyped to get greatly disappointed. it hurts seeing a game that looks amazing fall at the waist due to incompetent developers or an angry community who wants it now i just want a game with a heart and a soul as it should be
I tried out the B4B beta with friends, and while I will admit, I did get a little bit of enjoyment out of it, it was probably mostly from hanging out with friends and messing around rather than from the actual game itself
My biggest complaint is like what you said, it had no soul, Left 4 Dead is Left 4 Dead, no mistaking it, Back 4 Blood seems like just another zombie game, and if it weren’t for the fact that it was so hyped up, it’d be forgotten by the end of the year, even if it was released on December 30th, it’d still do that and be forgotten the next day
I also really like the point you made with how Turtle Rock is really good at coming up with ideas, but terrible at executing them, which is why L4D was so great, TR came up with the idea and sown the seeds of the game while Valve designed it and helped it blossom into something beautiful, I think they should do that again, come up with a great game idea, but get a game company who knows how to make a good game to make the game themselves
Great work
I don't think anyone knows how much of L4D was really Valve and how much was Turtle Rock. Unless there's a solid source, it's just speculation.
@@wtfronsson Well left 4 dead 2 was made entirely by VALVe so……
@@lsmer8994 Yes, and it's completely built on the first game, which is mainly TRS's work. I mean, L4D 2 released only a year after. This is only possible when the game is basically ready, and you are mostly just adding assets and small design elements.
Also Valve brought TRS in again to do DLC for L4D 2. So any talk about Valve considering TRS as incompetent or whatever, seems pretty weird. Why are they hiring someone whose work they don't like?
@@wtfronsson Just watch what happened chronologically and come to your own conclusion, but to sum it up Valve did most of the job and quality control and not long after TRS went on their merry way while most of their members joined Valve while others disbanded.
Yeah but unfortunately Valve don’t know how to count to Three
The sad part is that I felt the same way when I was playing it. The simple gameplay loop of L4D was great. I thought it was nostalgia but it was just bc L4D was fun. B4B has all of these complicated loadout options and character buffs that take away from a simple drop in and play mindset.
The way I feel about games now are that every game wants to be that hit blockbuster movie but sometimes I just wanna sit and enjoy bite sized portions of a tv show.
I'm disappointed that I know I am going to buy B4B.
I still love how the second Covid affected 2020 everyone went back to playing l4d2 as if they were preparing
That was just about the same concept with WWZ. It was supposed to be a "L4D3" or a "replacer" and failed miserably. Granted the hordes were absolutely terrifying, ill give them that, but the special infected lacked oomph. The bull just flopped you around while the stalker just punches and flail their arms on you. The bull didn't have the oomph like the charger did. The chargers pick up and *SLAM* into the ground made you feel the impact and understand the pain from the survivors. The stalker just punches you while the hunter actually rips into a survivor. You can feel and understand the survivors pain, it really complements and emphasizes eachother. They had something good going with the zeke horde but failed at emphasizing the impact behind special infected attacks.
One other thing I noticed, both B4B and WWZ didn't have the smooth character development like L4D did. The start where everyone didn't know eachother right off the bat until the elevator. Nick being an absolute asshole of a gambler with no care for his team to actually softening up to his team after a couple campaigns. His heartfelt complements to a fallen member, his sincere remarks about joking about his insults toward ellis when it's only him and ellis left after Ro and Coach died. B4B and WWZ, they just never really hit different. Didnt have the same feeling whereas the survivors in L4D actually feel alive and care
I just think WWZ is very mediocre. The atmosphere in that game is like a kids playground with lots of toys to kill zombies with. Not like a survival scenario I guess. The first person patch helps a little, but even there the execution is only half of what you really expect from a 1st person game.
But neither WWZ or B4B were meant to be L4D "replacements". That's you own misconception, or you picked it up from someone else without questioning it. They have their own gameplay draw, and you just need to take a look to understand it's not like L4D to begin with. Moot point.
@@wtfronsson Yeah WWZ was pretty mediocre but as for b4b and wwz being a replacer, I knew it would never be a replacer as I was mocking those who did think that. I've seen so many videos like "oh wwz/b4b is the new l4d3 we'd never get from valve" Or something along the lines. Everytime I would see a video or comment about it, I would just laugh and shake my head as I knew nothing would ever compare to l4ds masterpiece of a game
Bull feels like it's cuddling a puppy on a bed.
Charger? *GRARCH* sounds, fucking horrific impact crunch sounds, the sheer blast of it running into a wall hurts you and can even stagger you from the sheer concussive force
I keep imagining Uncle Gaben watching these videos and laughing his ass off, like seeing his classmate trying to copy his homework but failing miserably.
I just hope one day he'll bring us l4d3, one of my favorite details of the first 2 games is the characters, they feel real, they talk to each other, the sync perfectly together, they put SO much effort in every single voice line and every bit of dubbing for those games.
Gabe can't count to three. Plus isn't he the one who purposely crapped on Half-Life players by mocking them with " postponing" 3's date whenever someone teased him about bring fat?
@@IWasaTeenageTeenWolf that shit was great and deserved.
Even the other dubs were great.
I've played with the german dub and they nailed the voicelines, just as perfect as the english dub.
Killing Floor enemies are cloned experiments but literally same gameplay concept of wave survival. Most people probably think of it as a zombie game. It had a ton of lore in the early days as a mod but they kind of removed 90% of the story elements upon creating the stand alone.
Damn.
Im glad about watching this as well as Crowbcat and The Act Man's videos about B4B and LFD2.. its really inspiring how you all share the same topic but give out really different perspectives and points.
This game is so good, it still makes memories for people who picked it up recently. At least, for me. I picked up the game just 3 or 4 years ago and it's my most favorite game in the fucking world. It's GOOD, and nothing else is like it. The game is simple, you head in, you kick ass and its over. No need to think about anything else that's outside of the moment itself. When you pop in the menu, its just add ons (if youre pc) and game options/modes. I love that, it feels so arcade-y. This game means the world to me and I'm sad B4B tries so hard to seem like a successor when it doesn't have the same care at all. At least L4D is always there when you want a kickass zombie shooter to play with friends.
This video has made me realize that we *REALLY NEED* a Left 4 Dead movie along with a few other Valve games.
There is a left 4 dead fan made movie. Most fans say it’s very good and faithful
Unfortunately, Valve Time TM. There would've been a TF2 TV series if Valve didn't miss deadlines over and over. We would've gotten the story in comic form instead of they didn't forget about Book 7
I always believed film grain in a game to make it look "cinematic" was stupid and completely wrong to do. However, L4D's art style is supposed to be like a movie, and it's the only game I ever use it on. I turn that dial to the max. I want B4B to be good, I want to like it, and I want it to succeed. However, I think we have another Evolve on our hands...
The L4D developer commentary basically explains the game's art direction, map/level design and co-op gameplay mechanics. Yes it's supposed to be a movie, but a movie whose plot is defined by the characters themselves. That's why it's still played even after 12+ years.
As for Back 4 Blood, I think it was doomed in the first place because it's just reinventing the wheel
@@Theophan123 - hence the AI Director. One player's movie won't be the same as the other.
That Stat of Decay callout was kind of bad because while its grindy its a fairly simple but enjoyable zombie game unlike Back 4 Blood which felt like that annoying little brother trying so hard to fit in.
What a great video dude and such a love letter to the Left 4 Dead series as a whole. I've been playing L4D2 ever since I got it for Christmas 2009 and haven't stopped since. It's a shame that the creators of such an influential game in life can't even do weapon noises properly anymore. What a shame.
Back 4 Blood will never reach the beauty of L4D2. Back 4 blood actually brought back interest in L4D2.
I grow up with Xbox 360 and L4D was my first game ever, and my favorite game of all time.
I remember when me and my brother found out that you could fly with the pipe bomb, so fun man!
I loved how left 4 dead character had personalities and bounces off each other. Back 4 blood characters….can’t even remember their names 😅
L4D2 was released 15 years ago, i was a kid, the game aged so well, we got around 30k people playing it on steam daily, videos about l4d still get like 100k views, that is some impressive stuff. Valve, PLEASE release LEFT 4 DEAD 3.
Left for dead was way too good for his time. Even today left for dead is way better then some games.
I feel like Vermintide 2 is a better spiritual successor to L4D than B4B. Even if it has some selfish mechanics (like those green circles), it has a lot of team based mechanics. In order to get better equipment you need to get collectables in the level: 3 books, 2 grimoires, and loot dice from killing bosses. Carrying a book means that you can't carry healing so you need to rely on you teammates to help you. Grims replace buff potions and will decrease the teams' max health and the only way to get rid of the curse is to destroy the grim. There are meta builds because there are different classes, weapons, talents and randomized attributes on items. In the end there is more incentive to work as a team while also giving opportunity for individual skill to shine.
That’s what that game was. I was trying to find it’s name
Not just one, but TWO Kanye related images in the first 30 seconds. I thought you were just a really great video creator, now you're officially on my cream team of perfect content creators
The funniest part about calling yourself a narcissist is that you're almost guaranteed not to be because a narcissist because a narcissist will almost never come to terms with the fact that they are one
?
I was so skeptical when they announced this game. I’m glad I waited to see how it would turn out.
8:21 I respect why you'd argue Destiny raids are just 6 man lootfests but it really isn't that true. Anyone who played Last Wish on its release can tell you raids require EVERYONE to be communicating and helping each other.
Yeah what he said about the raids is just blatantly untrue. Anyone who's raided in destiny knows that. This guy either hasn't raided in destiny or is just lying
He is incredibly biased and it is clear as daylights, saying you have to be selfish and play only for yourself WHILE showing games like overwatch, and then saying that L4D is OBJECTIVELY teamwork based and everyone does so, while disregarding many games as otherwise. I get it, people like their game and will cry their eyes out by insulting other games that people enjoy to make their one seem superior. It's sad how L4D's community is riddled with these pricks, the games good, but the community is filled with pretentious fanboys.
@@ihavevisionfearme thank you for having a brain
Basically it’s the lack of simplicity and freedom, the game is designed to make everything feel like a linear structured experience, progression, combat all of it is structured to much, the progression requires players to be subconsciously selfish and grind/loot for better shit rather than just kill zombies and survive, the enemies aren’t allowed to be random crazy occurrences but rather scripted encounters that require the same approach every time, the maps are linear A-B but don’t even have the illusion of openness or exploration that L4d did, the weapons are structured to be categorized like rpg items, not just whatever you feel like using to kill zombies, the game isn’t as good cause the developers have taken away too much player freedom and made the experience a rigid one.
Why would it be objectively bad or worse to make a game _about_ these systems of progression and added complexity? It's simply different from L4D. If you don't like that then you don't get the game. Personally I'm very much looking forward to unlocking stuff and trying out different builds. What I already know from the beta is that the builds are very much playstyle defining, so I'm calling them a success. I love that the game has all these variables like different ammo types and corruption cards, because it gives me something to think about as I go.
I wonder if Payday 2 was also attacked like this when it came out? Because it was also a horde shooter with a lot of added complexity. Or did it not rouse the haters because you shoot cops instead of zombies in that game? lol.
It's the same reason I couldn't get into cold war zombies. In the old games you could play with any gun you wanted, you just had to pap it. That's what I like about l4d is that you could pick up any gun,including the base pistol, and just kill and have fun. But everything is about grinding now and it just sucks the fun out of these casual couch play games
@@ThermalKill24 The card grind in B4B will probably be completed in less than a week. Maybe two weeks if you play shorter sessions. After that you can do any build. Are you really that put off by the idea that a fresh character needs to do just a bit of "leveling up" before everything is unlocked?
And sure you can just use any gun *type* and not worry about stuff if the difficulty isn't too high. It might take a while to find the exact weapon you want, but is that really such a bad thing in a supposed zombie survival scenario?
I think it's purely a plus that you need to find guns and upgrades as you go. And you won't always have your favorite stuff. Sometimes the ammo might force you to switch off a weapon type, which you'll do early if you're smart about it. Or pick a favorite weapon that's actually ammo efficient, so you'll never need to switch.
To me, your idea of fun seems way too simple to keep me interested.
I find that exploration L4D had was bad at times, for new players you'd get lost or waste time. It added issues to the base game flow making it not very friendly to get into. Games which have exploration tend to have maps to compensate for the maze like nature of it.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 I remember Dark Carnival chapter 1 in Left 4 Dead.It takes hours to find a way
One of my fond memories is playing l4d2 with my mum as a kid, we always played zombie games together and I even got my name Ellis from Ellis in l4d2! And now I’m still here and zombies are my special interest❤
I feel like all we really need is just a remaster of L4D and L4D2, just those two games but with modern graphics and maybe additional content, that would have been so much better
I would like them to be on another engine more than anything else, while source was good back when hl2 came out, it's time to move on.