Left For Dead... - The Tragedy of Back 4 Blood

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 1.7K

  • @GVMERS
    @GVMERS  ปีที่แล้ว +103

    Download Naraka on Xbox gsght.com/c/776bsp and Steam gsght.com/c/a32t1y for free from 15th to 19th March and get a 50% discount between March 15th-21st on Steam & Epic
    Join the discord group: discord.gg/narakabladepoint

    • @cyclops8238
      @cyclops8238 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The narrator's voice sounds very familiar. Reminds me of the narrator frequently used on History channel's documentaries.

    • @jefp65
      @jefp65 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      If a game doesn't do very well its not a tragedy.

    • @MikeTheGreek
      @MikeTheGreek ปีที่แล้ว

      NO ENGLISH SUBTITLES? F THIS SH*T. You're supposed to add them since people are paying for your Patreon. Is it really that hard for someone to add them?

    • @victorpapillon1487
      @victorpapillon1487 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pin the Andy Sledge comment, now!

    • @C.A._Old
      @C.A._Old ปีที่แล้ว

      Turtle rock studios 2.0 is sucks.

  • @theotherjared9824
    @theotherjared9824 ปีที่แล้ว +3005

    Turtle Rock knows for a fact that handing games over to the community is how to extend its lifespan indefinitely. Explicitly disallowing mods was the worst possible decision they could make.

    • @loganreed23
      @loganreed23 ปีที่แล้ว +472

      The worst decision was to slap modern AAA garbage "quirks" on top of L4D carcass and call it "successor of Left 4 Dead". Disallowment of mod support is part of this too

    • @Snakedude4life
      @Snakedude4life ปีที่แล้ว +69

      That’s the very second I knew this was a stinker.

    • @CubiStudios
      @CubiStudios ปีที่แล้ว +153

      It’s how you extend the lifespan, but if you’re greedy and going for a quick buck and want to squeeze it of what it’s worth…how is anyone gonna buy your cosmetic microtransactions if you can mod cooler models and skins in? Think of the dollars!!

    • @iratepirate3896
      @iratepirate3896 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      Yep. Went from pre-order to a cancel upon hearing that.

    • @Abadeez
      @Abadeez ปีที่แล้ว +55

      Not really, turtle rock didn't really have anything to do with Left 4 Dead. It was 99% Valve.

  • @andysledge
    @andysledge ปีที่แล้ว +3678

    Crowbcat put it perfectly, these guys had almost no involvement in L4D

    • @BNGamesYT
      @BNGamesYT ปีที่แล้ว +292

      This should be the top comment.

    • @chemergency
      @chemergency ปีที่แล้ว +663

      It's not a "spiritual successor" to Left 4 Dead so much as it is a poorly made knockoff/imitator.

    • @TamalPlays
      @TamalPlays ปีที่แล้ว +138

      @@chemergency true. I will say it is a scam

    • @ZeFluffyKnight
      @ZeFluffyKnight ปีที่แล้ว +150

      Crowbcat's video is a bit disingenuous, many Turtle Rock employees had switched and stayed at Valve when Valve originally acquired them after Counter-Strike. TRS had a lot to do with L4D especially in the prototype stages.

    • @Roovka_
      @Roovka_ ปีที่แล้ว +220

      Something about this channel calling them the "original creators" in the intro does discourage me from watching further because of this fact.

  • @DeadFishFactory
    @DeadFishFactory ปีที่แล้ว +920

    People always underestimate what Valve does. They always attribute Valve's successful games to the minds of other studios, but a game idea and its execution are very different things. Valve may not always come up with all of the best game designs or ideas, but they are the masters at the implementation and execution.

    • @usamaaqeel7992
      @usamaaqeel7992 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      True even payday had some involvement with valve, for some time in early 2000's it seems like if a game wants to be good it should be a part of or copy Valve.
      Valve was making multiplayer games in 90's which even played today while other companies were even struggling to make games in that period...

    • @hiranmaydas4921
      @hiranmaydas4921 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Valve's devs graduated from fucking MIT ofcourse they are good

    • @iSOBigD
      @iSOBigD ปีที่แล้ว +44

      @@KawaiiFemBoi I would argue even TF2 set the bar for most multiplayer games of the following 15 years. Although they had classes in TF Classic, I believe it was the first game to give real personalities and Pixar style animations to their characters, along with great voice acting and lines, taunts and fun unlockables. Just about every class based multiplayer game copied the formula and they still do to this day.
      That being said, I think Portal 1/2 are the best example of taking a simple concept or tech demo that no one would have heard of and making it into game of the year material, twice, and games that are still well liked 15 years later. Most developers can't keep a multiplayer going a couple of years, let alone make classic or original games that are still popular a decade of two later.

    • @pintolerance785
      @pintolerance785 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      "Valve may not come up with all of the best game designs or ideas." What do you mean? Every single Valve game is an actual gaming revolutionizing banger.

    • @FerociousMit
      @FerociousMit ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I noticed a lot of valve games in the past weren't ever looking as great as other games, but I could always rely on the valve games being more open to the user letting you do so much more compared to other games. Valve does know their shit. I always preferred PC because of them.

  • @darthcinema4262
    @darthcinema4262 ปีที่แล้ว +1762

    This and Evolve prove that without Valve, TurtleRock is incapable of making good games.

    • @DilbertChan
      @DilbertChan ปีที่แล้ว +250

      Evolve was good, but inherently flawed with its asymmetrical gameplay balance, 2K's push for esports, and in-game cash shop.
      Back 4 Blood is flawed and misguided. Completely missing what users wanted and expected of a L4D-like game, in addition to boasting they were the creators of Left 4 Dead when their involvement was overshadowed by Valve- colossally, I might add.

    • @bobbyevans8136
      @bobbyevans8136 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      Despite its flaws out of the gate, I actually enjoyed b4b alot. The card system brought alot to it. That being said, you still have to give them credit for pushing a L4D game send Valve just insists on sitting on the IP. I still find the Vermintide series to be the true successor of L4D and in many ways surpassed it.

    • @Someone-lg6di
      @Someone-lg6di ปีที่แล้ว +73

      ​@@bobbyevans8136 deep rock galatic is another good successor

    • @darthcinema4262
      @darthcinema4262 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      @@bobbyevans8136 Vermintide does rule.

    • @totesmcfloats9348
      @totesmcfloats9348 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      @@Someone-lg6di Rock and Stone Brotha!

  • @Splarkszter
    @Splarkszter ปีที่แล้ว +680

    Funny was that they said "from the makers of L4D" while the only "devs" from that studio that worked on L4D in total where like 3 or 4 people all others were valve employees. So that it's also a scam.

    • @saltierdongs7760
      @saltierdongs7760 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Well turtle rock came up with the idea so I think that's how they get away with saying that

    • @DustyRagu
      @DustyRagu ปีที่แล้ว +132

      ​@@saltierdongs7760 yeah, i guess "makers of the mod that inspired the actual video game everyone cares about" isnt as good a hook on a trailer or game box

    • @kabeam5643
      @kabeam5643 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Exactly 7 Turtle Rock Employees worked on it out of the 176 people (according to the credits screen) who worked on L4D1, that makes it out to be 169 Valve Employees and 7 Turtle Rock Employees.

    • @theotherjared9824
      @theotherjared9824 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      From the people tangentially involved with Left 4 Dead.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Welcome to video game turnover, where only 15% of new employees last 5-6 years in the industry. If Valve made L4D3 tomorrow I doubt they'd have much more than 3-4 of the original names either. Valve is not the same Valve, Turtlerock is not the same Turtlerock, Blizzard is not the same Blizzard, etc. This is just reality. That being said, you want to see how hypocritical people are about "only 3-4 people" put someone like Hideo Kojima, Tod howard, or Chris Roberts as your front man. Then suddenly 1 person is all you need to love or hate a game :D. VideoGameDunkey nailed it when he said "the most inconsistent voice in the video game community, is the video game community". Yall pick and choose when you want specific arguments to be true lol.

  • @atomicforgery9266
    @atomicforgery9266 ปีที่แล้ว +854

    They were Back 4 Blood, but they couldn't Evolve. So in the end, they were Left 4 Dead, if only there was a way to stave off this Darktide.

    • @theunhingedgamer3762
      @theunhingedgamer3762 ปีที่แล้ว +42

      I like what you did here 😂

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Hey now, did something happen with Darktide?

    • @MohdAsif-Alpha
      @MohdAsif-Alpha ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Ouch

    • @Daxter609
      @Daxter609 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@steelbear2063 Darktide is still very broken

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@Daxter609
      But is it though?

  • @sealboy1211
    @sealboy1211 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    L4d didn’t need hit markers. That’s really important in a game about shooting zombies.

    • @majorpeepo
      @majorpeepo ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They had valve to help alot

    • @hellcatdave1
      @hellcatdave1 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Valve did literally everything. Turtle Rock only deserves credit for the concept.@@majorpeepo

    • @majorpeepo
      @majorpeepo ปีที่แล้ว +1

      i know this already thats why i said they helped ALOT @@hellcatdave1

    • @TreeFPV
      @TreeFPV ปีที่แล้ว +2

      especially since most special infected are bullet sponges, its so annoying having hitmarker on your screen practically 24/7 with automatic weapons

    • @contra7631
      @contra7631 ปีที่แล้ว

      So you can actually see them die.With their amazing gore system.

  • @o.c.1686
    @o.c.1686 ปีที่แล้ว +307

    12:21 Look at that zombie die like a Minecraft mob, it really makes you feel like you're playing a 60$ game

    • @dindjarin8816
      @dindjarin8816 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Hhhhh 😂 nice catch

    • @highoctanesynx7950
      @highoctanesynx7950 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      LMAOOOOO

    • @Jase_
      @Jase_ ปีที่แล้ว +16

      It’s crazy that a small detail like that can spoil the experience

    • @SasqueEnchiladaII
      @SasqueEnchiladaII ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Shit, even unturned has better ragdoll physics and that game is FREE

    • @kamomohilda7954
      @kamomohilda7954 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wish it turned red and then evaporated.

  • @shmookins
    @shmookins ปีที่แล้ว +46

    From a shady "celebrating 10 million players!" comment to soon after saying "we are quitting this game!" says a lot.

  • @SlientChaos
    @SlientChaos ปีที่แล้ว +222

    This was to be expected. The idea that Turtle Rock Studios had some gamers briefly convinced that they could go back to their Left 4 Dead roots like they promised with Evolve speaks volumes as to how consistently they've pulled the wool over our eyes for years.
    Tragedy? I'm gonna have to call it a foregone conclusion, given Turtle Rock's track record.

    • @jagatheeldest5786
      @jagatheeldest5786 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So true.

    • @DreKozar
      @DreKozar ปีที่แล้ว

      Yea, there was 0 chance I was going to risk B4B after what I put up with happening with Evolve.

    • @denimschaffer9439
      @denimschaffer9439 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think to me Vermintide and Deep Rock were the true spiritual successors to Left 4 Dead they both were co op, had great enemy variety, incredibly good lore, good replay value and really good dialogue

    • @CrashHeadroom
      @CrashHeadroom ปีที่แล้ว

      @@denimschaffer9439 Deeprock is NOT a spiritual succesor or L4D ((although it is good)), the 2 are entirely different outside they are both coop :/. Hell if we were to look at L4D under it's hood you'd find it has way more links to things like ALIEN Isolation due to the way it's enemies and AI Director work. Deep rock is grinding minerals and shooting enemies.... nothing else. Can be very fun, but boring after 3 drops....

  • @evanpeacock6103
    @evanpeacock6103 ปีที่แล้ว +614

    Back for blood used the left 4 dead developers it had as a marketing tool. It turned out that they had less than 10 previous left 4 dead developers out of the over 200 left 4 dead dev team. Crowbat made a very good video comparing the two and the reasons why it failed with side by side comparisons.

    • @johananj.j8003
      @johananj.j8003 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      ​@GangBalls69_Estonia they were not technically lying. Both the games were made by turtle rock studios. So they can be neither sued, nor their actions considered a scam.

    • @gungrave10
      @gungrave10 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      That marketing hurt b4b more than it promote them. Because, b4b isn't all that bad. It is quite fun. But leave a lot to be desired when compared to L4D.

    • @AntagonistaX
      @AntagonistaX ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Why they didn´t call the game "Evolve 2"? OmG

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Welcome to video game turnover. I doubt Valve has many more, if any more, of the OGs on its staff still. Only like 15% of new employees survive 5-6 years in the games industry. And turnover at any individual company is insane. You can be at a company like 3 years and be there longer than most of your department lol. S'crazy and yall are obviously completely unaware that this is how it is lol. It's just Crowbcat preying on your ignorance for views lol.

    • @evanpeacock6103
      @evanpeacock6103 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@Ralathar44 I think you completely missed the mark of points and conversation being had here. The point was to point out that the company for back 4 blood was stating in their marketing that this would be the next left 4 dead, and they were using the fact that they had miniscule part of the dev team from the original left 4 dead as a marketing gimmick. The video that crowbat made was to demonstrate the differences between both games. There was also a very large consensus among the player base that bought and played back 4 blood felt nostalgia for left 4 dead and made them want to play left 4 dead instead. When a game makes you want to play another game the developer of that game has failed because he loses his player base. Back 4 blood also felt like a downgrade with its lack of interesting characters, horrible ragdoll physics, bad path finding AI, a difficulty system that is not properly scaled, and the outright refusal to allow mod developers access to the game to create more content for the community. Adding what was already stated with the deceptive marketing practices and it's failure to compete with an existing IP that is over a decade old this game deserved to fail.

  • @Shadowdash66X
    @Shadowdash66X ปีที่แล้ว +90

    No mods meant it was dead on arrival for me. Also no solo play. Some people from the beta test, myself included, just didn't like the micro-managing aspects of the card/copper systems. Also locking new survivors and infected behind a paywall was a dumb decision. Because each character had their own play styles and "perks" it meant if someone had already picked the character you had leveled up and learned, you'd have to try a new one.

    • @frankcagadas4952
      @frankcagadas4952 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They were afraid that it might fix their game by the community and call them lazy and scam just like Rockstar did with the definitive edition

    • @ryszakowy
      @ryszakowy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      it was dead on arrival anyway
      vermintide has wahrammer setting
      but back 4 blood is a literal cheap made version of left 4 dead only everything sucks
      first mods that would appear would be left 4 dead models and then everyone would leave the game anyway to actually play left 4 dead

  • @spqninjapl
    @spqninjapl ปีที่แล้ว +121

    The times when I was unemployed, was living with parents spending hours locked by myself in room playing L4d and L4d2.. Good old times :D

    • @thathandsomedevil0828
      @thathandsomedevil0828 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I lost my job during the 2008 financial crisis, got a low paying job and saved 3 months pay to buy left 4 Dead!!! 👍😂

  • @TicciSpice
    @TicciSpice ปีที่แล้ว +146

    The thing is, once I played Back 4 Blood for an hour or two, it was like the hole in my heart grew even bigger and the itch to play Left 4 Dead was soooo big.

    • @Yakiniq-n7o
      @Yakiniq-n7o ปีที่แล้ว

      Then fucking play left 4 dead goofy

    • @mathewm6294
      @mathewm6294 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Me too. I have watched gameplay footage of World War Z and that game looks like the Left 4 Dead game that I might be looking for.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      TBH an hour or two is not enough to actually learn or know any of the games in this genre. Sounds like you just wanted to play more L4D and you didn't realize it. B4B just reminded you it existed.

    • @TicciSpice
      @TicciSpice ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Ralathar44 I played the whole game.
      I stopped multiple times to go back to play Left 4 Dead cause it’s just more fun.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@TicciSpice You realize if you say you kept stopping B4B to play L4D that also means you kept stopping L4D to play B4B right? I'm sorry but this just sounds like BS. If you were not enjoying B4B and you WERE enjoying L4D you wouldn't keep stopping playing L4D to return to B4B. You're just trying to move the goal posts after being called out. It's ok if you didn't give B4B a chance though, people do that kinda thing, its human, it just means you don't know much about B4B. Lying about that though would be pretty shitty.

  • @LegioXXI
    @LegioXXI ปีที่แล้ว +368

    The lack of modding was the biggest dealbreaker to me. Sadly its a common theme with modern games. Can't sell as much in-game stuff if people just can mod the game.

    • @Grvxvity
      @Grvxvity ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Makes even less sense when you realize this game has zero micro transactions and the only thing you can buy is a season pass

    • @ExileHeretic
      @ExileHeretic ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Bethesda proves this isn't the case. Modern AAA game engines are just hard to mod without doing a ton of prep work dev side first. Probably why Bethesda keeps using Gamebryo/Creation engine.

    • @amspook
      @amspook ปีที่แล้ว +23

      @@ExileHeretic 4A Games, creator of Metro series just recently release a modding tool
      Modern game can be modded, just look at games with RE Engine
      Even without modding tool, games can be modded to a varying degree
      Capcom would make a big bucks if they ever decided to give players a modding kit

    • @jaysanj152
      @jaysanj152 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Meanwhile Barotrauma comes out of early access with the Devs proudly embraces Modding while Strives to improve and be like them to their level.
      This game could have gotten a brighter future had it gotten mod and steam workshop support.

    • @MrOverHeels
      @MrOverHeels ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Why are they against mods so much? Given that mods are usually the thing that extend an IP lifespan

  • @ibringnegativity
    @ibringnegativity ปีที่แล้ว +21

    It's amazing how so many zombie coop shooter comes after L4D2 but still can't topple L4D2. You can just check steam charts to see how many players are still playing L4D2 right now

    • @marksantiago9841
      @marksantiago9841 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And the best part, turtle rock studios had absolutely nothing to do with l4d2. They only partially helped create the first game. Valve did all the optimizations, game balancing and not to mention the Ai.

    • @bordoggo8016
      @bordoggo8016 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Even if a better game came out, it would not be capable of competing against L4D2' 5$ price tag. Just the way it is.

    • @iLoveMyBeautifulWife98
      @iLoveMyBeautifulWife98 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Still like 19k when I checked

  • @doctoroptical952
    @doctoroptical952 ปีที่แล้ว +232

    I played B4B when it came out and it was fun for maybe an hour. Trying to join a match was a chore in itself and i got tired of not being able to find anyone who would play the campaign start to finish even in chunks so i uninstalled it and havent bothered with it again.

    • @YogiTheBearMan
      @YogiTheBearMan ปีที่แล้ว +11

      It felt so janky in game too

    • @Cocc0nuttt0
      @Cocc0nuttt0 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      I played for about an hour and realized I've been duped. We spent more time selecting cards (first match ever - no idea if they're worth it or not!) than shooting zombies.
      The "soul" of Valve games (attention to detail, polished mechanics, original ideas, even music) is simply absent in B4B.

    • @doctoroptical952
      @doctoroptical952 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @Cockdonut i completely forgot about that ngl. Truthfully i had some decently tame hopes for the game, i knew it wasnt going to be LfD3 but i didnt think they would add so much bloaty bullshit to the game that it made the core gameplay loop completely unfun.

    • @Slurpified
      @Slurpified ปีที่แล้ว

      Public play was an absolute nightmare. The success rate of playing with randoms was like 1/20 games. Horrendous.

    • @BrandonL_00
      @BrandonL_00 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Finding people for campaigns wasn't that bad for me but versus in B4B was the worst. Every match, 1 team was clearly beating the other and 1 by 1, the losing team would lose players until the match was won by default due to no one being left on that team. 90% of matches were like this for me but even when it was 3v4, B4B doesn't have the same genius system that Left 4 Dead has where new players can join even when the game is still going on. I could be wrong and B4B has this system but I've never seen it.

  • @jagore1258
    @jagore1258 ปีที่แล้ว +613

    The difficulty spike in this game was insane and they never nailed a decent balance between snoozefest and frustrating as fuck.
    Also unlike other horde shooters it never felt like campaigns failed due to death from a thousand cuts or many mistakes.
    Often you would be doing great, have tons of supplies and ammo and health, and then one shitty throw of the dice spawns enough tallboys and retches or whatever in just the right order that your party goes from 100 to 0.
    On higher difficulties this was even worse. I went from feeling alright about this game completing it the first time to fucking hating it struggling to get anywhere in higher difficulty campaigns because the relentless special spawns would just blow your party up randomly somewhere in the map.
    And its not like my friends and I are strangers to these games. We were running the highest difficulty in L4Ds, Vermintide, and Darktide. It was always B4B that gave us problems and they always felt like bullshit out of our control.

    • @j.s.matthews2216
      @j.s.matthews2216 ปีที่แล้ว +65

      That was our problem too. You remember the bug where specials never stopped spawning? That hit us a bunch lol.

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Isn't this is how Left 4 Dead operated? The better you do, the more shit is thrown at you by the AI Director

    • @rubenjacobo3919
      @rubenjacobo3919 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Amen to that, the stalker zombies are fucking annoying to deal with and whenever it takes out one of my friends it always happens far away from the group.

    • @foxbox34594
      @foxbox34594 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      ​@J.S. Matthews bruh they used to be more specials than "normal" one at a certain point. Shit was pissing me off 😂. Me and my friends used to be like " what the hell is going on?"

    • @XXIIXIIIXXXIXXXIX
      @XXIIXIIIXXXIXXXIX ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Git better? 😂 The difficulty wasn't that bad, I can solo it on max 🤣🤣🤣

  • @TheKaMeLRo
    @TheKaMeLRo ปีที่แล้ว +31

    L4D charecters design look so simple but also a lot more memorable too.

    • @ryszakowy
      @ryszakowy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      that's another reason the game failed
      it's characters are everything left 4 dead characters WEREN'T

    • @CatZone985
      @CatZone985 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The characters in back 4 blood are far too over designed and their clothing makes them blend in too much with the environment

    • @CubesBR67
      @CubesBR67 หลายเดือนก่อน

      valve magic

  • @Quyzbuk86
    @Quyzbuk86 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    The beta chased me away long before any of the other problems that version 1.0 brought could. The couple interesting ideas that caught my attention were completely eclipsed by the limp gunplay, the wildly inconsistent tone, and the over-gamification and convolution of basic mechanics (like paying a first aid cabinet or a supply box with absolutely nobody around). This game had an almost comical identity crisis.

  • @ARIXANDRE
    @ARIXANDRE ปีที่แล้ว +360

    Congrats, Turtle Rock. Two games covered by Gvmers ( EVOLVE and this)

    • @morkensan5647
      @morkensan5647 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Three actually, they also did L4D lmao.

    • @kuhpunkt
      @kuhpunkt ปีที่แล้ว +70

      @@morkensan5647 Not really.

    • @KiryuDude
      @KiryuDude ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JT5ingh watch crowbcat video and you will understand why is not really

    • @kuhpunkt
      @kuhpunkt ปีที่แล้ว +57

      @@JT5ingh Look at the credits of the game.

    • @mrbubblestea
      @mrbubblestea ปีที่แล้ว +15

      ​@Morkensan the video on L4D wasn't a video lamenting its failure, though. L4D was more a Valve game anyway.

  • @drakeparker2994
    @drakeparker2994 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    My friends got me this game on steam to play last november. After the first level all I could think about was how much better and more fun L4D is and I spent the rest of that night wanting us to just switch over and play that.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well then you never actually learned the game. L4D is the same way. When you first play L4D you're a total noob and the L4D experience on hour 1 and the L4D experience on hour 100 are completely different. Sounds like you just wanted to play L4D and didn't realize it until B4B reminded you it existed.

    • @Mondy667
      @Mondy667 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ​@@Ralathar44 b4b is an advertisement for l4d lol

  • @utkphilobio
    @utkphilobio ปีที่แล้ว +20

    I bought this for PS4 and was shocked when I learned it didn't have local co-op. Really ruins my main use case for the game.

  • @toaolisi761
    @toaolisi761 ปีที่แล้ว +109

    I think it's more compelling when your average joes work together to survive the apocalypse. Back 4 Blood's characters looked and talked like Saint's Row characters. Very campy banter despite the morbid infestation around them. It didn't feel right that they seemed so desensitize to the dire situation.

    • @frankmills1917
      @frankmills1917 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      It's like having only Ellises and Rochelles and cranking them to the other side of the spectrum. L4D2's banters worked because of the serious dialogues that makes it grounded.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      Average Joes? L4D's characters were all crazy unrealistic action heroes. Coach went from being an overweight gym teacher to fighting zombies in melee with a shotgun while cracking jokes and showing zero fear at all literally overnight. Trust me if you gave 4 random people a bunch of guns suddenly they're prolly as much a danger to themselves and others as the zombies. Shooting, reloading, etc takes practice. Even for the easy to handle guns. You'd need practice to be accurate even feet planted, calm, in a controlled shooting environment. On the right and scared and tired and breathing hard while in major danger your accuracy gets so much worse.
      L4D is what people think they'd be like in the zombie apoc. Everyone that isn't Woody Harrelson in zombieland is prolly the best you could actually hope for though lol. Missing shots, panicing, and just generally barely surviving even with an action hero in your party.

    • @oxideactual1018
      @oxideactual1018 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      @@Ralathar44You’ve completely missed all the details for the characters in both L4D games and being able to shoot a gun doesn’t make you action hero, I can shoot a gun and all I would think about was getting to safety which is exactly what the L4D character do.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@oxideactual1018 They don't just shoot guns, they shoot guns accurately under pressure and on the move, reload quickly and flawlessly hundreds of times, (shit just those two is beyond 95% of the population) run massive distances, don't suffer from fatigue, are completely fearless making quips in the face of certain death unconcerned, are powerful melee combatants, etc. Every one of them is suddenly a Complete Mary sue that's good at everything combat related and there is no story or backstory justification for it. The game even makes fun of how fat and out of shape one of them is only for 5 minutes later that character to have more stamina than an obsessive crossfit nutter.
      They're basically military super soldiers lol. "average joes" my arse lol.

    • @joao34386
      @joao34386 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ralathar44 No they don’t “accurately shoot all the time under pressure” - The players do.
      In the canonical story, the survivors are often struggling to get by, constantly running out of ammo, and barely managing to survive each campaign.
      Obviously the gameplay side of things isn’t going to mirror that - that would fucking suck and be unfun as hell.
      What are you gonna say next? That “The Last Of Us” is unrealistic and has a bad story because players speedrun the game?
      You are genuinely stupid if you can’t make that distinction.

  • @ryderdonahue
    @ryderdonahue ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Great way to start the weekend

  • @GetToWhereYouAre
    @GetToWhereYouAre ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I knew the next "Left 4 Dead" game couldn't exist without a progression system. What appealed to me, was finding everything you needed in-match and making it out alive. That's what added to the randomness of it all. The vast roster of characters made it difficult to relate to.. I mean, it's small things like these that made me puzzled they couldn't handle.

    • @gabrielandy9272
      @gabrielandy9272 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      i think the way the progression worked on the left 4 dead is ok you keep you weapons to safe room to safe room, and thats enough,
      lets say the next left 4 dead have 10 campaings, you could keep you items ina few safe rooms except in some events where it explain you lost you items, or something cause starting of a campaing should always be with weaker weapons etc.
      for example in left 4 dead 2, you can keep you items from dead center hotel, till dead center mall, once they reach the passing you lost you items,
      the progression could work like that but the game should give u a good explanation why you lost then like helicopter crashing is a good one etc. so basically short progression with a few resets,
      thats the most progression i want, i don't want anything outside of the gameplay, so everyone that starts a campaing together starts the same and end the same, all that change is the choices if they dead and lost a weapon etc.

  • @dillonbacon4818
    @dillonbacon4818 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    Left 4 Dead 2 - “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” at its finest

    • @darthcinema4262
      @darthcinema4262 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      If they release a remaster of Left 4 Dead 2 with all the previous content I'd buy it immediately

  • @Barbaroossa
    @Barbaroossa ปีที่แล้ว +13

    "Left 4 Dead's original creators" - should be actually understood as "a large team with only six people involved in the original Left 4 Dead games".

  • @peachtoastie
    @peachtoastie ปีที่แล้ว +24

    The thing I've always found so appealing about Left4Dead was its simplicity. it was a game that I could play over and over again, abandon for a year or two and jump straight back in. The whole card system of Back 4 Blood made it so much more complicated. I don't care for levelling.

    • @JasonDevadason
      @JasonDevadason 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I played L4D2 from 2009 to 2012 and then abandoned it once my new laptop couldn't play games. Bought a new pc this year and I started playing again everyday without any barrier.

    • @peachtoastie
      @peachtoastie 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ unfortunately I switched from an xbox one to an xbox series s, which meant I lost backwards compatibility, and Xbox removed it from it’s store

  • @randybutternubs4647
    @randybutternubs4647 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    L4D: Four people desparately surviving in a cruel world where death is around every corner.
    B4B: Let's just copy Fortnite STW's zombies and obnoxious protagonist personalities then call it a day.

  • @DinnyForst
    @DinnyForst ปีที่แล้ว +78

    For me, Left 4 Dead sets very high bar for arcade zombie shooter in term of attention of detail, AI interaction, and cohesive gameplay element that comes together. Something that can be overlooked, but I really appreciate as passion project. Simple, accessible, yet has depth and completed package without live service or monitzation.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If L4D2 released with modern graphics today it'd be torn apart by the gaming public. It's grandfathered in with lesser expectations and slathered in layers of nostalgia. I Love that game and have hundreds of hours into it. But it does NOT hold up to modern standards. But hey, when the game costs you $2 you have $2 expectations. L4D2 doesn't cost full AAA price anymore like it did at release and that radically alters people's expectations of it.

    • @mrmolo70
      @mrmolo70 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@Ralathar44 I disagree. When comparing to modern standards, I'd say that Left 4 Dead and it's sequel are marginally average, but it's lasted the test of time both through the modding scene and having a good array of official content on top of that. Hell, with how predatory gaming has become since, Left 4 Dead would be seen as one of those last grasps of 'the old world' where a game isn't asking for you to buy into a stupid battle pass and 15+ DLC post launch. Though that's more policy practices than the game's overall quality, I admit.
      Point of the matter is, I don't think it'd be 'torn apart', but certainly not as praised as it is now. If the series is to ever make a comeback, it'll need to build more complex systems, but not reinvent what's already been set in place. Of course, we're both arguing hypotheticals here. Left 4 Dead as is made its mark and for one reason or another, no game has stolen that thunder. Nostalgia can't be the one reason Back 4 Blood fizzled out while Left 4 Dead sits the throne.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mrmolo70 "last gasp of the old world" lol, there are tons of games that release without DLC and battlepass and etc. Ironically Deep Rock Galactic isnt one of them with 10+ DLC but is well liked and considered properly monetized. And honestly, most games release with more content then L4D2 did by alot. L4D2 campaigns take like 15-30 minutes and they only had like 6 at release. 3 hours of map content. For AAA price. (was $50 back in the day). Like sure it didnt have tons of DLCs, but the value proposition was really messed up, which was a large part of why it got boycotted...its right in the manifesto.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mrmolo70 The interesting thing about modding is that the overhwelming majority of people, even in highly modded games, do not actually play with mods. I personally feel like these people are mad, but its the reality. Like 20 million people have played L4D2, the most subscribed mods have perhaps 500k subscriptions and it drops off really fast past the top mods. If you're like I am and you're a mod user, this sounds like madness to you. But I promise you its the truth. People massively overestimate the impact of mods. Especially since consoles are huge parts of the market and typically dont support mods well. L4D2 console versions just got SHIT on both by
      Valve and their own community. Prolly cost the L4D2 community 30% of its audience honestly.
      And L4D2 isn't sitting on the Throne, Payday 2 is with its lack of free mods and plethora of DLC :). Payday 2 consistently has 30k concurrent. Left 4 Dead is 15k-20k concurrent consistently and has only hit 30k concurrent once before immediately losing 5k players again and will prolly lose more next month.
      B4B didn't fizzle so much as it just never excelled. It puts up about the same level numbers as Killing Floor 2 and Vermintide 2 and those have never been said to have fizzled. People generally like those. So I'm not going to use double standards and call B4B a fizzle. It's just a moderate success. Damned with faint praise. Average. Etc.

    • @danielchew8739
      @danielchew8739 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@Ralathar44
      I do think that accessibility plays a role here. With a lower price and more straightforward game mechanics, I do think it's goes a long way to explain L4D2 longevity.

  • @foist101
    @foist101 ปีที่แล้ว +122

    The biggest red flag for me when I played the beta was the fact that they had hitmarkers. If you need hitmarkers in a game about mowing down hundreds of zombies your visual feedback isn't good enough. L4D nailed this already, you KNOW you've shot the zombie without needing that kind of thing and deciding to just say screw it and put one in means they never even tried to reach that level.
    Not saying it would fix the game obviously, but it shows a lack of understanding for what made a game about repeatedly shooting the same enemies so long lasting.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      lol now even hitmarkers are a flaw. And if L4D3 arrived tomorrow with hitmarkers nobody would complain about them. Never change gamers. Never change.

    • @BiteSizedProduction
      @BiteSizedProduction ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Ralathar44 When you buy a soup and it tastes like horse-piss and the chef spits on you when you complain, the least thing you can do is say that floating carrot piece was overcooked.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@BiteSizedProduction Terrible analogy, Overcooked carrots taste like horse piss now? The whole point of an analogy is to explain a complex idea with something relatable, easily understandable, and brief. Now I just think you're on the drugs.

    • @mccombo1512
      @mccombo1512 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      B4b guns had no impact for me. It just felt so light. Combat wasn’t satisfying

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mccombo1512 I didn't feel that way at all, but sucks you did man :(. Only fair and right to seek out the gameplay feel you want. Hope you found it and had many good sessions in that game...whether it be L4D2, Killing Floor 2, Deep Rock Galactic, or something else.

  • @infernalskepandaen2127
    @infernalskepandaen2127 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Crowbcat did an amazing historical recap of this studio and the fact they used L4D as a jumping platform for B4B

  • @LateNightHalo
    @LateNightHalo ปีที่แล้ว +8

    On top of disallowing mods which killed the long term sustainability of the game-it was a huge mistake for them to go all in on the “alien worm” aesthetic.
    I quit the game when it asked me to fight a giant alien monster with a healthbar.
    Left4Dead captured the aesthetic of the “zombie apocalypse” while back for blood felt more interested in outer space than zombies

    • @piegineer9130
      @piegineer9130 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah, peoples love zombie apocalypse game when the monster still mostly resemble a human but when they start turn into some kind of giant alien dinosaur head that sprout out multiple tentacles it no longer feel like zombie apocalypse and more like some alien shooter game.

  • @sadtoast6122
    @sadtoast6122 ปีที่แล้ว +150

    Honestly I'm here for the narrator.
    He sounds so professional

    • @GentleMannOfHats
      @GentleMannOfHats ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Yes, me too. It's pleasant to listen to.

    • @gmr2gnr
      @gmr2gnr ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Bruh it's an AI voice

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      @@gmr2gnr
      Dude the narrator has been here for years, and AI voices got realistic only this years, so lay off the crack

    • @Confusedddd
      @Confusedddd ปีที่แล้ว

      Thats why we all watch Gvmers

    • @suckviper4585
      @suckviper4585 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      No it's not, his name is Steve Petitt

  • @MN-jw7mm
    @MN-jw7mm ปีที่แล้ว +40

    This game had such a focus on the special infected but... there wasn't any actual versus mode. So people looking for a horde survival shooter weren't getting it, and people looking for a versus mode weren't getting it either.

    • @Keithustus
      @Keithustus ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Swarm PvP is fantastic...when it works. Having it actually find and connect to a game, and then it actually having 8 players, and then those 8 all knowing the basics like using all their mutation points...that just doesn't happen nearly often enough for most players.

    • @antonioyarbrough8871
      @antonioyarbrough8871 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bro Watchu mean they did I played this trash when it came out and on god there were like 3 infected and I didn’t stay long enough to find out they even had dlc which you buy to “add new special infected” when you can’t even play as the infected so why would we give them our money?

    • @Keithustus
      @Keithustus ปีที่แล้ว

      @@antonioyarbrough8871 there were 6 classes to play in the beta, 9 at launch, and 12 after the first DLC released.

  • @abdelali9279
    @abdelali9279 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    First Evolve now this, just like Crowbcat put it, Back 4 Blood proved that Valve carried Left 4 Dead, these people were more like contractor developers but the real visionaries and designers were from Valve, and it is sad to see that a 12 year old game is beating yours no wonder, they left it for dead

  • @CaseyRedgrave
    @CaseyRedgrave ปีที่แล้ว +8

    L4D in general is a simple game, literally for everyone. Easy to chill to. You can mod with next to 0 issue most of the times. No skill trees or cards or whatever.

  • @snacks1755
    @snacks1755 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    "Players ended up enjoying the card and looting systems." The hell we did lmao those were consistently so much of the common complaints I heard.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Both received alot of refinement over time. You got your whole deck starting level 1, builds got improved, almost every card was made useful, difficulty got rebalanced, even a couple cleaners got reworked. The addition of unbolting in safe rooms and a card that let you unbolt in the wild also mean that the "good attatchments vs good gun" pain largely went away. B4B still isn't a perfect game, but it's improved top to bottom a significant amount between release and now. And part of that was making the card system alot better.

    • @majorpeepo
      @majorpeepo ปีที่แล้ว

      Only players that enjoyed it was most likely fortnite apex players sadly

    • @graysonfost8679
      @graysonfost8679 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@Majorpeepo it was the best part of the game lol

    • @graysonfost8679
      @graysonfost8679 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It was the best part of the game, it was just explained terribly and not given to the player at the pace it should've been. It was a legitimately interesting way to keep things fresh, it was just introduced so poorly most players didn't even clear the few hour barrier to entry on it

  • @AbbreviatedReviews
    @AbbreviatedReviews ปีที่แล้ว +11

    The fact that any developer is making co-op content without looking directly at Deep Rock Galactic as a template is crazy to me. I have twice as much time in that than Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 combined - and I still feel like I'm accomplishing things when I play. Procedural maps in visually distinct biomes keep the experience fresh. There always has to be a limit on objective types, but if every journey to that objective feels like exploring new ground, it doesn't get old as quickly. That's one of the biggest problems I've always had with games in this genre.
    Also, co-op focused gameplay with class synergies encourage teamwork and not just dragging people along because it makes things easier. Numerous requirements for traversal, visibility, combat prowess, and just plain safety encourage a team to stay together or fail - so you avoid that annoying situation where someone is just sprinting through a map for the objective.

  • @-Raylight
    @-Raylight ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Kinda ironic that this game is being Left 4 Dead first than Valve's Left 4 Dead 😂
    Truly the creator of Evolve, not Left 4 Dead

    • @marcuspriest9570
      @marcuspriest9570 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not even then with Evolve some how make a comeback

  • @rich213sal
    @rich213sal ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I cant believe the video didnt mention no local splitscreen co op, that was a big deal.

    • @guiguito5505
      @guiguito5505 ปีที่แล้ว

      huh?
      Left 4 dead didn't have it either, why would it have it?

    • @rich213sal
      @rich213sal ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@guiguito5505 r u kidding me rn, it totally did... The 4 meant 4 player splitscreen

    • @iforgot87872
      @iforgot87872 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@rich213sal it had 2 player split screen on consoles, bur I agree it was a good feature

    • @rich213sal
      @rich213sal ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@iforgot87872 OMG, i thought PC was always hi n mighty...im a simple man, gimme a console anytime

    • @majorpeepo
      @majorpeepo ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@guiguito5505 left 4 dead has split screen lol .

  • @PenguinDT
    @PenguinDT ปีที่แล้ว +49

    I loved Left 4 Dead 1 + 2 - and the main reason why was the Director. The way it could change things on the fly in unpredictable ways was brutal - but never unfair, if you paid attention to things like sound cues. Back 4 Blood knee-capped the Director with the card system - you basically see all the tricks the Director has in store beforehand.
    My take on the best successor for L4D is Zombie Army series. It's basically the same deal, only more focused on the supernatural horror aspect and in 3rd person. Heck, the clunkiness of a WW2 sniper rifles are a perfect fit for a horror title, making you take care with your shots without feeling like someone is adding arbitrary BS between you and the controls. Plus Rebellion keeps supporting their games for long time and - unlike Valve - on all platforms, not just Steam.

    • @arsmariastarlight3567
      @arsmariastarlight3567 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I played the Zombie Army series, and I can say, they are the one who managed to follow L4D2's footsteps right, while making their own twist on it. It has the same premise: a level with several stages, divided by saferoom, 4 players, 2 weapons for each, throwables, elite version of the zombies, etc. It's basically slower-paced L4D2 with WW2 setting

    • @someonewhospams0w0inchat16
      @someonewhospams0w0inchat16 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Zombie Army is so great, i remember laughing for hours when i fought the zombie tank💀

    • @PenguinDT
      @PenguinDT ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 That was some WH40k body horror, for sure! That's one of the many things I love about that series - it keeps hopping on both sides of the line between over-the-top and atmospheric and somehow still pulls it of.

    • @SirGriefALot
      @SirGriefALot ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I like the idea of being able to upgrade your character, but the card system makes you start over every game so it felt more like you were getting downgraded more than upgraded.

    • @bryocx
      @bryocx ปีที่แล้ว +1

      L4D was also simple anyone could play it

  • @MrDawnnix
    @MrDawnnix 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the videos. Please don't stop.

  • @DaveVoyles
    @DaveVoyles ปีที่แล้ว +68

    Insane difficulty spikes killed this game for me and my friends.

    • @kcadventures1454
      @kcadventures1454 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Same! We would get decimated by some random unbeatable horde and my friends would be like: ya know what? F this game.

    • @DaveVoyles
      @DaveVoyles ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@kcadventures1454
      Same here. I played the same friends every Thursday night and we’re always looking for different multiplayer games to play. We were so hyped for this one.
      We would go along, and things will be fine and all the sudden difficulty would go from one to 10 .
      You’ll get wiped immediately and have to start all the way from the beginning . You did nothing wrong

    • @PLYTATN
      @PLYTATN ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@DaveVoyles Agree, B4B is one hot pile of unbalanced and unfair shit. The difficulty from Veteran to Nightmare or Nightmare to No Hope is a joke, on top of that they doesn't give you the option to select levels like L4D but they force you to run through the entire act with 1 continue, and if you don't have any continues left, you got taken back into the very first level. This is so bullshit.
      The most funny thing about it is most of those time you can't do shit about it, like, what do they expect us to do in order to fight off 4 tallboys,2 hockers, 5 reeker and have to watch out for birds,alarms all at the same time? On multiplayer,it is even worse if you don't have any friends to play with because those randoms are worse than bots. Not to mention the cursed cards system, like, why? This game failed hard from the start and it is very deserving not gonna lie.

    • @kcadventures1454
      @kcadventures1454 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@DaveVoyles I feel ya man, it's so rare to find 4 player co op games these days to play with friends. Everything is battle royale or if it is co op it's only 2-3 players!?

    • @kcadventures1454
      @kcadventures1454 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PLYTATN you nailed every reason we hated this game.

  • @StevenTalbot
    @StevenTalbot ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Do you ever wonder if there is any self awareness with these kind of devs?

  • @Jekyll_Jackal
    @Jekyll_Jackal ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Remember kids
    Whenever a developer shills the words "Successor to *Blank*" think failure.

  • @TheTrevorFox
    @TheTrevorFox ปีที่แล้ว +16

    It's a shame--a big reason that I never gave this game a shot was because of the card based progression system. Why cards? I don't understand why games with loadouts or perks insist on making them cards. There's really nothing different from it and a traditional perk system, but man. I just don't like it. Battlefield rubbed me the wrong way with it, and it still feels "ech" here

    • @DudeSWEEET
      @DudeSWEEET ปีที่แล้ว +4

      As originally released, the card system was very interesting because it was like an actual card game. You chose cards and put them in a specific order because you received 1 new card per mission. There was a strategy not just in which cards to include in your deck, but also when they could be "played". Difficulty increased as you progressed through a campaign, and the added card in each mission helped offset that.
      Unfortunately, this was never made very clear to players. The entire tutorial system was a disaster/not really existent.
      After about 6 or 9 months, they revised the whole thing and just gave you all your cards at the beginning of each campaign (adjusting difficulty to compensate for the increased player abilities). This simplified the card mechanics, but made the deck system pretty dumb. Might as well just create a skill system or tree like in any MMO or heavy RPGs. Would have been much easier to understand.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I just view cards as an aesthetic. Don't really love or hate them. Cards and decks vs skills and builds, its all the same thing. Feels weird to get hung up on it. It'd be like getting upset on whether someone called their money gold or zenny or credits or etc :D.

  • @paragonflash8937
    @paragonflash8937 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Man back 4 blood was a huge yikes in the gaming industry. Turtle rock studios really lost alot of respect and rep with back 4 blood's failure. The biggest issue is that B4B tried to make killing zombies a "Another Day another zombie killing time" tone while L4D was more "Alright stick together, cover each others back and well make it" tone genuienly made me turn away from B4B. World war Z did a better job at being a L4D style game than B4B.

  • @StephenFord
    @StephenFord ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I love the Tragedy series. You should do a sister series called "The Triumph of..."

  • @AnkushBhattacharya
    @AnkushBhattacharya ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I remember having fun in this with friends. The difficulty spikes were very bothersome, as if the AI director looked for an opportunity to hamper you in case you made any good progress. Unlike L4D, it didn't reward being quick, it punished you, or so it seemed. Once we finished the campaign, we never went back.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I'd give it another go, they've considerably smoothed out the experience. I wouldn't call it a 10/10, but if launch was a 6/10 its prolly a solid 8/10 now. Ironically at launch speedrunning, IE playing quick, was excessively dominant to the point it was difficult to get a match without people trying to force you to speed run. It's been balanced out a bit so both fast play and slow play are valid options. But I will warn you, B4B is a game where game knowledge matters more. L4D is very minimalist and you can shoot your way out of almost any mistake you make easily because of how fragile all enemies are. The answer to every situation is shoot it, or bash it. And this can actually even prevent almost every grab in the game too. (hunters can be bashed out of the air, smokers can be killed mid tongue) allowing people to cancel out their own mistakes and avoid punishment for bad play. In B4B you're prolly going to take damage or have someone go dwn on nightmare and above if you make big mistakes either by not having game knowledge or by being stupid.
      Good example is Sleepers. An experienced B4B player is good at seeing sleepers and tries to stay fairly near his allies because one missed sleeper with you separated can mean bad things for you and the team. They basically fulfill the niche of the hunter around corners in L4D, except the hunter always give themselves away with a growl whereas sleepers are something you should always be able to see visually before entering their range. (or quickly learn where they are).
      An experienced B4B team, even if only of middling skill, will complete the map "call to arms" with only a few alarms set off. Skilled L4D players who are not familiar with B4B will set off every fucking alarm because "gotta go fast" + "don't know what dangers exist in the game yet" is a pretty punishing combo. This is why when someone says something to the effect of "don't worry, im really good at L4D" its a red flag in B4B. It almost always means you've got a noob on your hands who will need to be carried and they'll be the last one to realize it.

    • @vyruss9348
      @vyruss9348 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@Ralathar44B4B ended support tho LOL.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vyruss9348 The irony is that B4B fans have let it go. L4D2 fans did not lol. B4B fans moved on and L4D2 fans are still making major threads bitching about B4B :D. That's how much of a hate boner they've had for it. Literally another thread 5 days ago on the L4D2 subreedit about the game. Already 3rd highest upvoted thread of the entire last 30 days. That's how salty L4D2 fans still are. Honestly its just sad. Let it go already. I'm playing BG 3 and Starfield and Cyberpunk and having a great time not being stuck in the past.

  • @blueghost6946
    @blueghost6946 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    At this point, I'd be satisfied with L4D2 being remade on the new engine. Playing Silent Hill, Resident Evil and other horror maps with my buddies was an experience in itself. B4B felt like WWZ, nice for a week but then gets boring.

    • @TheR6R6R
      @TheR6R6R ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Granted the new engine should have the same level of modding support, or better.

    • @blueghost6946
      @blueghost6946 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheR6R6R Yep. I forgot to mention that.

  • @purpleonblues2992
    @purpleonblues2992 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    After evolve this was kind of expected. Great video.

  • @kip_c
    @kip_c ปีที่แล้ว +4

    12:22 I thought that this animation of the zombie just rotating horizontally when it dies was a rare glitch only crowbcat could capture but seeing it here is just hilariously depressing

  • @ЦветомирИванов-т8ь
    @ЦветомирИванов-т8ь ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Current turtlerock tried to ride off their new game on the success of l4d, saying “from the creators of l4d” but didn’t tell people there are no l4d devs in their team

  • @lebitelexie9350
    @lebitelexie9350 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    They could ensure a way longer lifespan for B4B with one simple choice. Allow modding. Players would've taken over the content creation.

  • @hihosh1
    @hihosh1 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It's quite simple, they didn't allow addons or mods, as soon as I heard that I refused to play the game

  • @CannedMarmalade
    @CannedMarmalade ปีที่แล้ว +54

    Was eagerly awaiting for this video after they announced ending support for Back 4 Blood.

    • @AHappyCub
      @AHappyCub ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Wait really?!?! Such a massive fat L if it's true lol

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Lmao already? Damn, I dodged a bullet then

    • @mercster
      @mercster ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AHappyCub How is it an L, everyone is crapping on it anyway.

    • @amspook
      @amspook ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@AHappyCub It is, you can look it up, earlier this year they announced it

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@mercster
      An L for the devs, dude.

  • @ZombieSlayerBen1
    @ZombieSlayerBen1 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Lest we forget, that the majority of the developers that made left for dead what it is aren't even in turtle rock studios

  • @LeonTheSaint44
    @LeonTheSaint44 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    All the left 4 dead custom campaigns are so crazy i love the giant ship one and mall from dawn of the dead such talented designers ^^

  • @MrYoungzman
    @MrYoungzman ปีที่แล้ว +76

    This one hit too close to home. Me and my buds were addicted to this game, and then their first update hit and it killed all joy we had in the game.

    • @Cloud-zx2mu
      @Cloud-zx2mu ปีที่แล้ว +7

      What happened in the first update?

    • @GameBacardi
      @GameBacardi ปีที่แล้ว +26

      @@Cloud-zx2mu "seasoning pass"

    • @Someone-lg6di
      @Someone-lg6di ปีที่แล้ว +10

      ​@@Cloud-zx2mu the first update had turtlerock focusing on balancing the game and nerfing the strongest strats while nightmare was still incredibly difficult

    • @arutohiden3807
      @arutohiden3807 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Someone-lg6di true!

    • @THaB4DGuY
      @THaB4DGuY ปีที่แล้ว +4

      well consider yourself lucky, i never found joy in this crap ever lmao
      i got to like 3rd mission t hen deleted it and never went back
      sometimes i think about it, then i say nahhhh and play something else lol

  • @GrimPrism
    @GrimPrism ปีที่แล้ว +91

    Honestly the Vermintide series is the true successor to L4D

    • @seansquella5552
      @seansquella5552 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Honestly? I think Deep Rock Galactic is probably the best coop shooter ever made next to L4D. It has so much depth, personality and is amazingly balanced.

    • @somerandomdude7785
      @somerandomdude7785 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Uh, World War Z?

    • @1738-l1j
      @1738-l1j ปีที่แล้ว

      @@somerandomdude7785 its shit

    • @TheR6R6R
      @TheR6R6R ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Imagine Vermintide with Left 4 Dead's modding support.

    • @karasutaiga6214
      @karasutaiga6214 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ​@@somerandomdude7785 uh no crap game got bored of it

  • @Masterho310
    @Masterho310 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    What’s the one mode everyone played in left 4 dead 2? The 4 man team of survivors vs 4 man team of zombies while running through the story mission. The fact that back 4 blood didn’t have this and you could only play pvp in a set arena not the story levels. And you could only play story mode with 4 survivors in pve meant they doomed their game from the start.

    • @theunhingedgamer3762
      @theunhingedgamer3762 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      that was just the normal campaign versus mode where both teams would fight each other to progress through the campaign and the zombie users got all the special units except for the witch

    • @GZP1023
      @GZP1023 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Never played 4 vs 4 nonsense in L4D. Hated it.

    • @SillyPillow
      @SillyPillow ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@GZP1023 Sounds like a skill issue~

  • @reecedaybreak7954
    @reecedaybreak7954 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    You know your game is bad when your predecessor comes back from the dead to show you how its done and persist in memory at the same time.

    • @Mwright4444
      @Mwright4444 ปีที่แล้ว

      Funny thing is, L4D2 never died, and B4B is dead as hell now.

  • @Chekkles
    @Chekkles ปีที่แล้ว +50

    I’ll never forget the hour of my life I wasted playing the beta with some friends, and telling them “this game won’t last more than 3 years”

    • @Mentallyheld
      @Mentallyheld ปีที่แล้ว +1

      it didnt even last 3 years bruh 😭😭

    • @RagingTaygan
      @RagingTaygan ปีที่แล้ว +2

      From the start I knew game wasn’t gonna last long at all

    • @jimbo992
      @jimbo992 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Mentallyheld You can play solo for as long as you like?

  • @Gadfly818
    @Gadfly818 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Me and my buddies tried so hard to like this game. That deck change was good but it was too little, too late

  • @microsoftpain
    @microsoftpain ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I played the Beta. Almost bought the game.. glad I didn't.

  • @Abom713
    @Abom713 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    So you put a card system in the game so that players could make a build and play the game in a way that suited them, but the build was only mostly/fully active for only a third of the game and as soon as you finally got it going, you lost it. Real geniuses in the video game industry.

    • @bordoggo8016
      @bordoggo8016 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That's why it got changed back in June 2022, you start with your entire deck :p

  • @edzombie78
    @edzombie78 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Remember the free multi player demo we all turned it off 2 min in when they said about cards for weapons etc saved us 60 quid each

  • @nakfoor1846
    @nakfoor1846 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The difference between the most talented team in the world wanting to make the greatest game of all time, versus the team that was content to make something passable and cash in.

    • @Sir_Squid
      @Sir_Squid ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wdym? Valve is good? Yeah they make great stuff but are garbage after launch (i am a tf2 player and need updates pls i beg them)

  • @tehfoxxy9630
    @tehfoxxy9630 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    9:55
    Its hard to get away from that when they started their marketing campaign with *FROM THE CREATORS OF LEFT 4 DEAD*

  • @AegisAuras
    @AegisAuras ปีที่แล้ว +3

    As a L4D fan, there were a few jarring concepts that I could feel diminish my enjoyment of B4B.
    One was the personality themes presented by the cleaners of B4B vs the survivors of L4D. There were too many goofy one-liners, too humorous of an atmosphere, too much of a lack of sincerity. This negatively effected immersion and emotional investment.
    The difficulty scaling was also insanely broken; perhaps the most broken of any game in recent memory. I remember looking up videos of the few groups that could actually clear nightmare mode. They had full mic communication and had to stick to very specific speed builds and just run through the levels without fighting enemies. They weren’t even trying to speedrun, you just couldn’t win the match if you invested in actual combat. This gameplay approach is contrary to the genre.
    Another huge issue was the clunkiness of the enemy colliders and the slow down affect they had on you. This is harder to describe, but the enemies seemed to have larger, more disruptive colliders and could more easily induce slows on the player. Enemy attacks had a type of lag to them and would sometimes still hit they player even if the attack was dodged or interpreted beforehand. As a fan of the smoothness of Vermintide combat, this was incredibly distasteful.
    I found myself just defaulting back to deep rock galactic.

  • @SloopJohnB91
    @SloopJohnB91 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I got up at 5AM on a school day of my junior year in highschool to play OG L4D on release day. Played through the whole first campaign with a couple random guys who are still friends on steam. such a fun and vivid gaming memory. When L4D2 was released barely a year later, people were upset that it didn't change enough, but in hindsight, look at the staying power that game had! holds up so well TO THIS DAY. I'm 31 now with a busier life but if a friend asks if i wanna play a L4D2 Campaign, i am ALWAYS down.

    • @limitlessapocalypse2702
      @limitlessapocalypse2702 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thats sick, L4D2 memories never get old, that game really is timeless.

  • @cariboucreates7988
    @cariboucreates7988 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    GVMERS SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO "THE TRAGEDY OF TURTLEROCK STUDIOS" CAUSE THEIR STUDIO MAKES PLENTY OF TRAGEDIES

  • @moyses9293
    @moyses9293 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Been waiting on this

  • @Pers0n97
    @Pers0n97 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    The video Crowbcat dropped right after the release of that game is the best possible recap of why this game crashed and burn.

  • @moonasha
    @moonasha ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I would just like to remind people that L4D2 still gets 30k+ concurrent a day and is not a 'dead' game.

  • @bottleflaskan802
    @bottleflaskan802 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    You want a good coop game?
    Get Deep Rock Galactic, you won't regret it

    • @steelbear2063
      @steelbear2063 ปีที่แล้ว

      Try playing coop with a woman

    • @bottleflaskan802
      @bottleflaskan802 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@steelbear2063 sorry im not a leaf lover kid

  • @joet7136
    @joet7136 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    After watching the trailer and gameplay preview videos I knew it wouldn't come close to replacing L4D2 for me.

  • @TheGodEmperorOfMankind_
    @TheGodEmperorOfMankind_ ปีที่แล้ว +3

    When you hear shit like "Regular content for years to come" and "Long term commitment" you know the game is already dead

  • @everphantom2528
    @everphantom2528 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I actually really liked Back 4 Blood, it's honestly a shame they stopped producing more content, especially with the Children of the Worm and River of Blood expansion, it really spiced up the game; the cult and level designs in the last two dlcs were really damn good, imagine if we had that consistent quality throughout the game with newer expansions.

  • @dont259
    @dont259 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Didn't know they were essentially owned by tencent, that's disgusting.

    • @IamShellBee
      @IamShellBee ปีที่แล้ว

      Tencent has their hands in pretty much all of gaming your not gonna be able to avoid them.

  • @GojiraRising
    @GojiraRising ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "I got my money's worth so I can't wait for the sequel." These were asinine comments that I saw on the Back 4 Blood subreddit. The devs barely put any content into it to justify it's purchase.

  • @dictatorofthecheese
    @dictatorofthecheese ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just wanna say that now because of this whenever a company says "from the creators of " I immediately see that as a big ass red flag. And it goes into an instant wait for reviews and/or sales. Got burned by this (but not as bad as i got burned by callisto protocol since B4B was free on game pass) and callisto protocol since Callisto said they had a big name dev from dead space. Shows that no matter how big of a name you are, it doesn't mean instant gold lol. (At least in callisto protocols case. The back 4 blood people aren't the same people that worked on L4D1. Its been a long damn time between 2008 and 2021).

  • @Dartnitt
    @Dartnitt ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Devs really need to understand that what makes a game have a lot of replay value, is not how much stuff you put in it, but how good the core gameplay is. L4d2 is simple but polished, no sprinting, no skills, no passives, no ads, no cards. You could have 100 maps on the start and 50 different characters to play with different skills, but one day people will play on every single map, try out every character, and there will be no reason to play again since core gameplay is not fun enough to keep you playing

    • @BodofLegend
      @BodofLegend ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly!! The release of this game made people go back and play the l4d games!! No one asked for this card shit or any of this new crap. People just wanted to boot and play and get better over time without all this mindcramp load out crap.

  • @coachingmanagersandleaders
    @coachingmanagersandleaders ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I waited for years and years for the next game and it was so tragic :(

  • @joelou
    @joelou ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The balance on this game on launch was so terrible. On rhe first 3 occasions my team of 4 tried playing this, we would be completely whiping the floor with ease for the first 3/4 of a campaign. Way too easy. Then suddenly hit an impossible brick wall. We would quickly loose all of our restarts and get a game over. All progress lost. It was so annoying.
    I get that balancing a game like this can be difficult, but having limited continues made there be no room for flukes.
    I'm sure they improved things after the patch, but I couldn't convince my 3 friends to download the game again.

  • @princess_raggs9883
    @princess_raggs9883 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Turtle Rock gave the idea, Valve gave us the experience.

  • @ethanmarley678
    @ethanmarley678 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why can't game developers take notes from Deep Rock Galactic, Vermintide 1/2, Darktide, Zombie Army, Payday 1/2, World War Z and even TF2's Mann vs. Machine when making co-op PVE type games?

    • @pleasekillyoursef
      @pleasekillyoursef ปีที่แล้ว

      Ikr! Coops are not dead, they are as good as ever, its just that they are not AAA

    • @alexduffy7925
      @alexduffy7925 ปีที่แล้ว

      Darktide's garbage too thou. Even worse than B4B. Lost 100,000+ of it's players in 2 months, lol.

  • @tomhiggart
    @tomhiggart ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Back 4 blood was so easy to do right, even the new additions were good ideas but they messed up every single element and have ran with the money. Turtle rock studios as far as I'm concerned is on par with blizzard and EA. A stain on the gaming industry.

  • @DP12321
    @DP12321 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I wouldn't say WWZ pales in comparison to L4D. It's probably the closest we'll get to a proper L4D3 and the constant WWZ updates have really improved it over the years. Very pleasant surprise and fun if a bit grindy.

  • @de_buffer
    @de_buffer ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think we can all agree that Back 4 Blood would've been received much better had it not been advertised as a successor to Left 4 Dead.

  • @sirpizo555
    @sirpizo555 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    At this point I just want a Left 4 Dead remastered collection I can play on ps5

  • @TheUltraKekster
    @TheUltraKekster ปีที่แล้ว +16

    What back 4 blood did is make people remember L4D is still there.

  • @mrcaboosevg6089
    @mrcaboosevg6089 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Game is 2 years old and they're still asking for £50 on Steam, i bought L4D for next to nothing shortly after release

  • @ryan.1990
    @ryan.1990 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    "No you don't get mods, we made the game perfect as it is!"
    The arrogance of modern game devs

  • @chainsawplayin
    @chainsawplayin ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It came out in a time when I was no longer interested in zombies and already had Left 4 Dead 2, and had already completed all of it.

  • @tijoike
    @tijoike ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There was so much more detail in L4D. Just like at the knifing difference with the kills

  • @vaultdweller94
    @vaultdweller94 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The ingredient needed for a good successor is Valve, it seems