Left For Dead... - The Tragedy of Back 4 Blood
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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The trailblazing Left 4 Dead and its 2009 sequel redefined cooperative shooters, carving out a new path in the genre that later paved the way for countless co-op-centric experiences. Despite their best efforts, though, no development team could recapture the unique thrill of zombie killing in the Valve-owned franchise; as such, the company’s decision to cease regular support on Left 4 Dead 2 marked the end of an era. A much-coveted Left 4 Dead 3 wouldn’t reinvigorate things either, leaving other studios with the task of carrying the torch. But the likes of Killing Floor 2 and World War Z, while admirable in their own right, arguably paled in comparison to that which came before. With the industry still itching for a comparable zombie experience, Left 4 Dead’s original creators took it upon themselves to revisit the genre through the lens of a new IP-Back 4 Blood.
Billed as Left 4 Dead’s spiritual successor, Back 4 Blood followed the same basic structure-pitting up to four playable heroes against zombie hordes in campaign and competitive modes. However, developer Turtle Rock Studios switched gears in some respects, crafting more capable protagonists, introducing card-based progression, and updating the classic L4D formula with modern systems.
The anticipation ahead of Back 4 Blood’s debut suggested the beloved zombie series had truly returned via another name, yet the former’s October 2021 release left much to be desired. Content-related shortcomings and a handful of technical woes plagued Turtle Rock’s new property during its first few months on the market, resulting in a rapidly declining user base that never returned to full strength.
This is the tragedy of Back 4 Blood.
Intro 0:00
Sponsorship 2:10
The Tragedy of Back 4 Blood 3:42
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The narrator's voice sounds very familiar. Reminds me of the narrator frequently used on History channel's documentaries.
If a game doesn't do very well its not a tragedy.
NO ENGLISH SUBTITLES? F THIS SH*T. You're supposed to add them since people are paying for your Patreon. Is it really that hard for someone to add them?
Pin the Andy Sledge comment, now!
Turtle rock studios 2.0 is sucks.
Crowbcat put it perfectly, these guys had almost no involvement in L4D
This should be the top comment.
It's not a "spiritual successor" to Left 4 Dead so much as it is a poorly made knockoff/imitator.
@@chemergency true. I will say it is a scam
Crowbcat's video is a bit disingenuous, many Turtle Rock employees had switched and stayed at Valve when Valve originally acquired them after Counter-Strike. TRS had a lot to do with L4D especially in the prototype stages.
Something about this channel calling them the "original creators" in the intro does discourage me from watching further because of this fact.
Turtle Rock knows for a fact that handing games over to the community is how to extend its lifespan indefinitely. Explicitly disallowing mods was the worst possible decision they could make.
The worst decision was to slap modern AAA garbage "quirks" on top of L4D carcass and call it "successor of Left 4 Dead". Disallowment of mod support is part of this too
That’s the very second I knew this was a stinker.
It’s how you extend the lifespan, but if you’re greedy and going for a quick buck and want to squeeze it of what it’s worth…how is anyone gonna buy your cosmetic microtransactions if you can mod cooler models and skins in? Think of the dollars!!
Yep. Went from pre-order to a cancel upon hearing that.
Not really, turtle rock didn't really have anything to do with Left 4 Dead. It was 99% Valve.
They were Back 4 Blood, but they couldn't Evolve. So in the end, they were Left 4 Dead, if only there was a way to stave off this Darktide.
I like what you did here 😂
Hey now, did something happen with Darktide?
Ouch
@@steelbear2063 Darktide is still very broken
@@Daxter609
But is it though?
People always underestimate what Valve does. They always attribute Valve's successful games to the minds of other studios, but a game idea and its execution are very different things. Valve may not always come up with all of the best game designs or ideas, but they are the masters at the implementation and execution.
True even payday had some involvement with valve, for some time in early 2000's it seems like if a game wants to be good it should be a part of or copy Valve.
Valve was making multiplayer games in 90's which even played today while other companies were even struggling to make games in that period...
Valve's devs graduated from fucking MIT ofcourse they are good
@@KawaiianArgument I would argue even TF2 set the bar for most multiplayer games of the following 15 years. Although they had classes in TF Classic, I believe it was the first game to give real personalities and Pixar style animations to their characters, along with great voice acting and lines, taunts and fun unlockables. Just about every class based multiplayer game copied the formula and they still do to this day.
That being said, I think Portal 1/2 are the best example of taking a simple concept or tech demo that no one would have heard of and making it into game of the year material, twice, and games that are still well liked 15 years later. Most developers can't keep a multiplayer going a couple of years, let alone make classic or original games that are still popular a decade of two later.
"Valve may not come up with all of the best game designs or ideas." What do you mean? Every single Valve game is an actual gaming revolutionizing banger.
I noticed a lot of valve games in the past weren't ever looking as great as other games, but I could always rely on the valve games being more open to the user letting you do so much more compared to other games. Valve does know their shit. I always preferred PC because of them.
This and Evolve prove that without Valve, TurtleRock is incapable of making good games.
Evolve was good, but inherently flawed with its asymmetrical gameplay balance, 2K's push for esports, and in-game cash shop.
Back 4 Blood is flawed and misguided. Completely missing what users wanted and expected of a L4D-like game, in addition to boasting they were the creators of Left 4 Dead when their involvement was overshadowed by Valve- colossally, I might add.
Despite its flaws out of the gate, I actually enjoyed b4b alot. The card system brought alot to it. That being said, you still have to give them credit for pushing a L4D game send Valve just insists on sitting on the IP. I still find the Vermintide series to be the true successor of L4D and in many ways surpassed it.
@@bobbyevans8136 deep rock galatic is another good successor
@@bobbyevans8136 Vermintide does rule.
@@Someone-lg6di Rock and Stone Brotha!
"From the creators of Left 4 Dead and another dead live service game, here's another dead live service game"
Can you explain what makes back 4 blood a live service game?
@@Grvxvity The content roadmap that released almost immediately after the game. Not advertised as DLC, but as continuing content.
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 it was advertised as an expansion pass, a season pass. With this logic, cod bo1,mw3,bo2, and ghosts aswell as any other game with a season pass is considered a live service. Back 4 bloods roadmap was marketed from day one as a season pass so is there any other reason? They don’t have MTX either, only thing purchasable is the season pass
@@Grvxvity in my book if you cant play the game after release because they shut down the service its a live service game. You can only get service if its online and now they are cutting the online part so the service is gone.
@@beertlont776 you can still play it lol
Funny was that they said "from the makers of L4D" while the only "devs" from that studio that worked on L4D in total where like 3 or 4 people all others were valve employees. So that it's also a scam.
Well turtle rock came up with the idea so I think that's how they get away with saying that
@@saltierdongs7760 yeah, i guess "makers of the mod that inspired the actual video game everyone cares about" isnt as good a hook on a trailer or game box
Exactly 7 Turtle Rock Employees worked on it out of the 176 people (according to the credits screen) who worked on L4D1, that makes it out to be 169 Valve Employees and 7 Turtle Rock Employees.
From the people tangentially involved with Left 4 Dead.
Welcome to video game turnover, where only 15% of new employees last 5-6 years in the industry. If Valve made L4D3 tomorrow I doubt they'd have much more than 3-4 of the original names either. Valve is not the same Valve, Turtlerock is not the same Turtlerock, Blizzard is not the same Blizzard, etc. This is just reality. That being said, you want to see how hypocritical people are about "only 3-4 people" put someone like Hideo Kojima, Tod howard, or Chris Roberts as your front man. Then suddenly 1 person is all you need to love or hate a game :D. VideoGameDunkey nailed it when he said "the most inconsistent voice in the video game community, is the video game community". Yall pick and choose when you want specific arguments to be true lol.
L4d didn’t need hit markers. That’s really important in a game about shooting zombies.
They had valve to help alot
Valve did literally everything. Turtle Rock only deserves credit for the concept.@@majorpeepo
i know this already thats why i said they helped ALOT @@hellcatdave1
especially since most special infected are bullet sponges, its so annoying having hitmarker on your screen practically 24/7 with automatic weapons
So you can actually see them die.With their amazing gore system.
12:21 Look at that zombie die like a Minecraft mob, it really makes you feel like you're playing a 60$ game
Hhhhh 😂 nice catch
LMAOOOOO
It’s crazy that a small detail like that can spoil the experience
Shit, even unturned has better ragdoll physics and that game is FREE
Wish it turned red and then evaporated.
No mods meant it was dead on arrival for me. Also no solo play. Some people from the beta test, myself included, just didn't like the micro-managing aspects of the card/copper systems. Also locking new survivors and infected behind a paywall was a dumb decision. Because each character had their own play styles and "perks" it meant if someone had already picked the character you had leveled up and learned, you'd have to try a new one.
They were afraid that it might fix their game by the community and call them lazy and scam just like Rockstar did with the definitive edition
Back for blood used the left 4 dead developers it had as a marketing tool. It turned out that they had less than 10 previous left 4 dead developers out of the over 200 left 4 dead dev team. Crowbat made a very good video comparing the two and the reasons why it failed with side by side comparisons.
@GangBalls69_Estonia they were not technically lying. Both the games were made by turtle rock studios. So they can be neither sued, nor their actions considered a scam.
That marketing hurt b4b more than it promote them. Because, b4b isn't all that bad. It is quite fun. But leave a lot to be desired when compared to L4D.
Why they didn´t call the game "Evolve 2"? OmG
Welcome to video game turnover. I doubt Valve has many more, if any more, of the OGs on its staff still. Only like 15% of new employees survive 5-6 years in the games industry. And turnover at any individual company is insane. You can be at a company like 3 years and be there longer than most of your department lol. S'crazy and yall are obviously completely unaware that this is how it is lol. It's just Crowbcat preying on your ignorance for views lol.
@@Ralathar44 I think you completely missed the mark of points and conversation being had here. The point was to point out that the company for back 4 blood was stating in their marketing that this would be the next left 4 dead, and they were using the fact that they had miniscule part of the dev team from the original left 4 dead as a marketing gimmick. The video that crowbat made was to demonstrate the differences between both games. There was also a very large consensus among the player base that bought and played back 4 blood felt nostalgia for left 4 dead and made them want to play left 4 dead instead. When a game makes you want to play another game the developer of that game has failed because he loses his player base. Back 4 blood also felt like a downgrade with its lack of interesting characters, horrible ragdoll physics, bad path finding AI, a difficulty system that is not properly scaled, and the outright refusal to allow mod developers access to the game to create more content for the community. Adding what was already stated with the deceptive marketing practices and it's failure to compete with an existing IP that is over a decade old this game deserved to fail.
This was to be expected. The idea that Turtle Rock Studios had some gamers briefly convinced that they could go back to their Left 4 Dead roots like they promised with Evolve speaks volumes as to how consistently they've pulled the wool over our eyes for years.
Tragedy? I'm gonna have to call it a foregone conclusion, given Turtle Rock's track record.
So true.
Yea, there was 0 chance I was going to risk B4B after what I put up with happening with Evolve.
I think to me Vermintide and Deep Rock were the true spiritual successors to Left 4 Dead they both were co op, had great enemy variety, incredibly good lore, good replay value and really good dialogue
@@denimschaffer9439 Deeprock is NOT a spiritual succesor or L4D ((although it is good)), the 2 are entirely different outside they are both coop :/. Hell if we were to look at L4D under it's hood you'd find it has way more links to things like ALIEN Isolation due to the way it's enemies and AI Director work. Deep rock is grinding minerals and shooting enemies.... nothing else. Can be very fun, but boring after 3 drops....
From a shady "celebrating 10 million players!" comment to soon after saying "we are quitting this game!" says a lot.
The thing is, once I played Back 4 Blood for an hour or two, it was like the hole in my heart grew even bigger and the itch to play Left 4 Dead was soooo big.
Then fucking play left 4 dead goofy
Me too. I have watched gameplay footage of World War Z and that game looks like the Left 4 Dead game that I might be looking for.
TBH an hour or two is not enough to actually learn or know any of the games in this genre. Sounds like you just wanted to play more L4D and you didn't realize it. B4B just reminded you it existed.
@@Ralathar44 I played the whole game.
I stopped multiple times to go back to play Left 4 Dead cause it’s just more fun.
@@TicciSpice You realize if you say you kept stopping B4B to play L4D that also means you kept stopping L4D to play B4B right? I'm sorry but this just sounds like BS. If you were not enjoying B4B and you WERE enjoying L4D you wouldn't keep stopping playing L4D to return to B4B. You're just trying to move the goal posts after being called out. It's ok if you didn't give B4B a chance though, people do that kinda thing, its human, it just means you don't know much about B4B. Lying about that though would be pretty shitty.
The times when I was unemployed, was living with parents spending hours locked by myself in room playing L4d and L4d2.. Good old times :D
I lost my job during the 2008 financial crisis, got a low paying job and saved 3 months pay to buy left 4 Dead!!! 👍😂
The lack of modding was the biggest dealbreaker to me. Sadly its a common theme with modern games. Can't sell as much in-game stuff if people just can mod the game.
Makes even less sense when you realize this game has zero micro transactions and the only thing you can buy is a season pass
Bethesda proves this isn't the case. Modern AAA game engines are just hard to mod without doing a ton of prep work dev side first. Probably why Bethesda keeps using Gamebryo/Creation engine.
@@ExileHeretic 4A Games, creator of Metro series just recently release a modding tool
Modern game can be modded, just look at games with RE Engine
Even without modding tool, games can be modded to a varying degree
Capcom would make a big bucks if they ever decided to give players a modding kit
Meanwhile Barotrauma comes out of early access with the Devs proudly embraces Modding while Strives to improve and be like them to their level.
This game could have gotten a brighter future had it gotten mod and steam workshop support.
Why are they against mods so much? Given that mods are usually the thing that extend an IP lifespan
The difficulty spike in this game was insane and they never nailed a decent balance between snoozefest and frustrating as fuck.
Also unlike other horde shooters it never felt like campaigns failed due to death from a thousand cuts or many mistakes.
Often you would be doing great, have tons of supplies and ammo and health, and then one shitty throw of the dice spawns enough tallboys and retches or whatever in just the right order that your party goes from 100 to 0.
On higher difficulties this was even worse. I went from feeling alright about this game completing it the first time to fucking hating it struggling to get anywhere in higher difficulty campaigns because the relentless special spawns would just blow your party up randomly somewhere in the map.
And its not like my friends and I are strangers to these games. We were running the highest difficulty in L4Ds, Vermintide, and Darktide. It was always B4B that gave us problems and they always felt like bullshit out of our control.
That was our problem too. You remember the bug where specials never stopped spawning? That hit us a bunch lol.
Isn't this is how Left 4 Dead operated? The better you do, the more shit is thrown at you by the AI Director
Amen to that, the stalker zombies are fucking annoying to deal with and whenever it takes out one of my friends it always happens far away from the group.
@J.S. Matthews bruh they used to be more specials than "normal" one at a certain point. Shit was pissing me off 😂. Me and my friends used to be like " what the hell is going on?"
Git better? 😂 The difficulty wasn't that bad, I can solo it on max 🤣🤣🤣
L4D charecters design look so simple but also a lot more memorable too.
Congrats, Turtle Rock. Two games covered by Gvmers ( EVOLVE and this)
Three actually, they also did L4D lmao.
@@morkensan5647 Not really.
@@kuhpunkt yes really. Under Valve they stopped using the Turtlerock name but once they requested to leave Valve they went back to being Turtlerock.
@@JT5ingh watch crowbcat video and you will understand why is not really
@@JT5ingh Look at the credits of the game.
Left 4 Dead 2 - “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” at its finest
If they release a remaster of Left 4 Dead 2 with all the previous content I'd buy it immediately
It's amazing how so many zombie coop shooter comes after L4D2 but still can't topple L4D2. You can just check steam charts to see how many players are still playing L4D2 right now
And the best part, turtle rock studios had absolutely nothing to do with l4d2. They only partially helped create the first game. Valve did all the optimizations, game balancing and not to mention the Ai.
Even if a better game came out, it would not be capable of competing against L4D2' 5$ price tag. Just the way it is.
Still like 19k when I checked
The thing I've always found so appealing about Left4Dead was its simplicity. it was a game that I could play over and over again, abandon for a year or two and jump straight back in. The whole card system of Back 4 Blood made it so much more complicated. I don't care for levelling.
More co-op devs should pay attention to one of the reasons why Deep Rock Galactic is so fun, even with randoms: you can survive and do fine even when off on your own.
And because they focussed on what any developer should do: make it a fun game to play
So many games lack focus or have it on the wrong aspects. Games as a service, games as cinematic stories, games as empowerement, games as a social hub…
If the core gameplay is good, everything is just extra. Thats what the devs did. See Tetris or any other old school game like Chess.
DRG gameplay made for both team and solo
_ sure u can go solo away from the team as a scout...but if u die...that is your fault and not the team
_ 4 dwarfs despite having 4 different skills set....they all perform the same task differently...driller can drill up to get resources, engie make platform to get resources, gunner get old man elevator to resources and scout zic zac around for resources. they combo the dwarfs together or not.
_ even if im forced to play as an Engineer...a class that too resource management but i still having fun as playing him. if u somehow make the most dislike class that playable and fun...you are doing something right.
@@ZzVinniezZ It's also the fact that there's no medic
Having a dedicated healer could be fun for some, but worse for others
Parts of why L4D is so fun to play is that there's no dedicated roles, everyone can be anything
@@amspook exactly....forcing roles into certain playstyle is good but there are time when "no i aint picking that class" happen...it gonna cause problem...im glad DRG doesn't do that, cuz some people want 5th dwarf to be a medic
@@ZzVinniezZ You can run Field Medic and Shield Link for players who want to be a traditional mmo healer so making a 5th dwarf that does that is completely pointless.
I played B4B when it came out and it was fun for maybe an hour. Trying to join a match was a chore in itself and i got tired of not being able to find anyone who would play the campaign start to finish even in chunks so i uninstalled it and havent bothered with it again.
It felt so janky in game too
I played for about an hour and realized I've been duped. We spent more time selecting cards (first match ever - no idea if they're worth it or not!) than shooting zombies.
The "soul" of Valve games (attention to detail, polished mechanics, original ideas, even music) is simply absent in B4B.
@Cockdonut i completely forgot about that ngl. Truthfully i had some decently tame hopes for the game, i knew it wasnt going to be LfD3 but i didnt think they would add so much bloaty bullshit to the game that it made the core gameplay loop completely unfun.
Public play was an absolute nightmare. The success rate of playing with randoms was like 1/20 games. Horrendous.
Finding people for campaigns wasn't that bad for me but versus in B4B was the worst. Every match, 1 team was clearly beating the other and 1 by 1, the losing team would lose players until the match was won by default due to no one being left on that team. 90% of matches were like this for me but even when it was 3v4, B4B doesn't have the same genius system that Left 4 Dead has where new players can join even when the game is still going on. I could be wrong and B4B has this system but I've never seen it.
Great way to start the weekend
L4D: Four people desparately surviving in a cruel world where death is around every corner.
B4B: Let's just copy Fortnite STW's zombies and obnoxious protagonist personalities then call it a day.
My friends got me this game on steam to play last november. After the first level all I could think about was how much better and more fun L4D is and I spent the rest of that night wanting us to just switch over and play that.
Well then you never actually learned the game. L4D is the same way. When you first play L4D you're a total noob and the L4D experience on hour 1 and the L4D experience on hour 100 are completely different. Sounds like you just wanted to play L4D and didn't realize it until B4B reminded you it existed.
@@Ralathar44 b4b is an advertisement for l4d lol
"Left 4 Dead's original creators" - should be actually understood as "a large team with only six people involved in the original Left 4 Dead games".
I think it's more compelling when your average joes work together to survive the apocalypse. Back 4 Blood's characters looked and talked like Saint's Row characters. Very campy banter despite the morbid infestation around them. It didn't feel right that they seemed so desensitize to the dire situation.
It's like having only Ellises and Rochelles and cranking them to the other side of the spectrum. L4D2's banters worked because of the serious dialogues that makes it grounded.
Average Joes? L4D's characters were all crazy unrealistic action heroes. Coach went from being an overweight gym teacher to fighting zombies in melee with a shotgun while cracking jokes and showing zero fear at all literally overnight. Trust me if you gave 4 random people a bunch of guns suddenly they're prolly as much a danger to themselves and others as the zombies. Shooting, reloading, etc takes practice. Even for the easy to handle guns. You'd need practice to be accurate even feet planted, calm, in a controlled shooting environment. On the right and scared and tired and breathing hard while in major danger your accuracy gets so much worse.
L4D is what people think they'd be like in the zombie apoc. Everyone that isn't Woody Harrelson in zombieland is prolly the best you could actually hope for though lol. Missing shots, panicing, and just generally barely surviving even with an action hero in your party.
@@Ralathar44You’ve completely missed all the details for the characters in both L4D games and being able to shoot a gun doesn’t make you action hero, I can shoot a gun and all I would think about was getting to safety which is exactly what the L4D character do.
@@oxideactual1018 They don't just shoot guns, they shoot guns accurately under pressure and on the move, reload quickly and flawlessly hundreds of times, (shit just those two is beyond 95% of the population) run massive distances, don't suffer from fatigue, are completely fearless making quips in the face of certain death unconcerned, are powerful melee combatants, etc. Every one of them is suddenly a Complete Mary sue that's good at everything combat related and there is no story or backstory justification for it. The game even makes fun of how fat and out of shape one of them is only for 5 minutes later that character to have more stamina than an obsessive crossfit nutter.
They're basically military super soldiers lol. "average joes" my arse lol.
@@Ralathar44 No they don’t “accurately shoot all the time under pressure” - The players do.
In the canonical story, the survivors are often struggling to get by, constantly running out of ammo, and barely managing to survive each campaign.
Obviously the gameplay side of things isn’t going to mirror that - that would fucking suck and be unfun as hell.
What are you gonna say next? That “The Last Of Us” is unrealistic and has a bad story because players speedrun the game?
You are genuinely stupid if you can’t make that distinction.
Kinda ironic that this game is being Left 4 Dead first than Valve's Left 4 Dead 😂
Truly the creator of Evolve, not Left 4 Dead
Not even then with Evolve some how make a comeback
I knew the next "Left 4 Dead" game couldn't exist without a progression system. What appealed to me, was finding everything you needed in-match and making it out alive. That's what added to the randomness of it all. The vast roster of characters made it difficult to relate to.. I mean, it's small things like these that made me puzzled they couldn't handle.
The beta chased me away long before any of the other problems that version 1.0 brought could. The couple interesting ideas that caught my attention were completely eclipsed by the limp gunplay, the wildly inconsistent tone, and the over-gamification and convolution of basic mechanics (like paying a first aid cabinet or a supply box with absolutely nobody around). This game had an almost comical identity crisis.
I bought this for PS4 and was shocked when I learned it didn't have local co-op. Really ruins my main use case for the game.
Crowbcat did an amazing historical recap of this studio and the fact they used L4D as a jumping platform for B4B
"Players ended up enjoying the card and looting systems." The hell we did lmao those were consistently so much of the common complaints I heard.
Both received alot of refinement over time. You got your whole deck starting level 1, builds got improved, almost every card was made useful, difficulty got rebalanced, even a couple cleaners got reworked. The addition of unbolting in safe rooms and a card that let you unbolt in the wild also mean that the "good attatchments vs good gun" pain largely went away. B4B still isn't a perfect game, but it's improved top to bottom a significant amount between release and now. And part of that was making the card system alot better.
Only players that enjoyed it was most likely fortnite apex players sadly
@Majorpeepo it was the best part of the game lol
It was the best part of the game, it was just explained terribly and not given to the player at the pace it should've been. It was a legitimately interesting way to keep things fresh, it was just introduced so poorly most players didn't even clear the few hour barrier to entry on it
The biggest red flag for me when I played the beta was the fact that they had hitmarkers. If you need hitmarkers in a game about mowing down hundreds of zombies your visual feedback isn't good enough. L4D nailed this already, you KNOW you've shot the zombie without needing that kind of thing and deciding to just say screw it and put one in means they never even tried to reach that level.
Not saying it would fix the game obviously, but it shows a lack of understanding for what made a game about repeatedly shooting the same enemies so long lasting.
lol now even hitmarkers are a flaw. And if L4D3 arrived tomorrow with hitmarkers nobody would complain about them. Never change gamers. Never change.
@@Ralathar44 When you buy a soup and it tastes like horse-piss and the chef spits on you when you complain, the least thing you can do is say that floating carrot piece was overcooked.
@@BiteSizedProduction Terrible analogy, Overcooked carrots taste like horse piss now? The whole point of an analogy is to explain a complex idea with something relatable, easily understandable, and brief. Now I just think you're on the drugs.
B4b guns had no impact for me. It just felt so light. Combat wasn’t satisfying
@@mccombo1512 I didn't feel that way at all, but sucks you did man :(. Only fair and right to seek out the gameplay feel you want. Hope you found it and had many good sessions in that game...whether it be L4D2, Killing Floor 2, Deep Rock Galactic, or something else.
Remember kids
Whenever a developer shills the words "Successor to *Blank*" think failure.
For me, Left 4 Dead sets very high bar for arcade zombie shooter in term of attention of detail, AI interaction, and cohesive gameplay element that comes together. Something that can be overlooked, but I really appreciate as passion project. Simple, accessible, yet has depth and completed package without live service or monitzation.
If L4D2 released with modern graphics today it'd be torn apart by the gaming public. It's grandfathered in with lesser expectations and slathered in layers of nostalgia. I Love that game and have hundreds of hours into it. But it does NOT hold up to modern standards. But hey, when the game costs you $2 you have $2 expectations. L4D2 doesn't cost full AAA price anymore like it did at release and that radically alters people's expectations of it.
@@Ralathar44 I disagree. When comparing to modern standards, I'd say that Left 4 Dead and it's sequel are marginally average, but it's lasted the test of time both through the modding scene and having a good array of official content on top of that. Hell, with how predatory gaming has become since, Left 4 Dead would be seen as one of those last grasps of 'the old world' where a game isn't asking for you to buy into a stupid battle pass and 15+ DLC post launch. Though that's more policy practices than the game's overall quality, I admit.
Point of the matter is, I don't think it'd be 'torn apart', but certainly not as praised as it is now. If the series is to ever make a comeback, it'll need to build more complex systems, but not reinvent what's already been set in place. Of course, we're both arguing hypotheticals here. Left 4 Dead as is made its mark and for one reason or another, no game has stolen that thunder. Nostalgia can't be the one reason Back 4 Blood fizzled out while Left 4 Dead sits the throne.
@@mrmolo70 "last gasp of the old world" lol, there are tons of games that release without DLC and battlepass and etc. Ironically Deep Rock Galactic isnt one of them with 10+ DLC but is well liked and considered properly monetized. And honestly, most games release with more content then L4D2 did by alot. L4D2 campaigns take like 15-30 minutes and they only had like 6 at release. 3 hours of map content. For AAA price. (was $50 back in the day). Like sure it didnt have tons of DLCs, but the value proposition was really messed up, which was a large part of why it got boycotted...its right in the manifesto.
@@mrmolo70 The interesting thing about modding is that the overhwelming majority of people, even in highly modded games, do not actually play with mods. I personally feel like these people are mad, but its the reality. Like 20 million people have played L4D2, the most subscribed mods have perhaps 500k subscriptions and it drops off really fast past the top mods. If you're like I am and you're a mod user, this sounds like madness to you. But I promise you its the truth. People massively overestimate the impact of mods. Especially since consoles are huge parts of the market and typically dont support mods well. L4D2 console versions just got SHIT on both by
Valve and their own community. Prolly cost the L4D2 community 30% of its audience honestly.
And L4D2 isn't sitting on the Throne, Payday 2 is with its lack of free mods and plethora of DLC :). Payday 2 consistently has 30k concurrent. Left 4 Dead is 15k-20k concurrent consistently and has only hit 30k concurrent once before immediately losing 5k players again and will prolly lose more next month.
B4B didn't fizzle so much as it just never excelled. It puts up about the same level numbers as Killing Floor 2 and Vermintide 2 and those have never been said to have fizzled. People generally like those. So I'm not going to use double standards and call B4B a fizzle. It's just a moderate success. Damned with faint praise. Average. Etc.
@@Ralathar44
I do think that accessibility plays a role here. With a lower price and more straightforward game mechanics, I do think it's goes a long way to explain L4D2 longevity.
Honestly I'm here for the narrator.
He sounds so professional
Yes, me too. It's pleasant to listen to.
Bruh it's an AI voice
@@gmr2gnr
Dude the narrator has been here for years, and AI voices got realistic only this years, so lay off the crack
Thats why we all watch Gvmers
No it's not, his name is Steve Petitt
This game had such a focus on the special infected but... there wasn't any actual versus mode. So people looking for a horde survival shooter weren't getting it, and people looking for a versus mode weren't getting it either.
Swarm PvP is fantastic...when it works. Having it actually find and connect to a game, and then it actually having 8 players, and then those 8 all knowing the basics like using all their mutation points...that just doesn't happen nearly often enough for most players.
Bro Watchu mean they did I played this trash when it came out and on god there were like 3 infected and I didn’t stay long enough to find out they even had dlc which you buy to “add new special infected” when you can’t even play as the infected so why would we give them our money?
@@antonioyarbrough8871 there were 6 classes to play in the beta, 9 at launch, and 12 after the first DLC released.
I cant believe the video didnt mention no local splitscreen co op, that was a big deal.
huh?
Left 4 dead didn't have it either, why would it have it?
@@guiguito5505 r u kidding me rn, it totally did... The 4 meant 4 player splitscreen
@@rich213sal it had 2 player split screen on consoles, bur I agree it was a good feature
@@iforgot87872 OMG, i thought PC was always hi n mighty...im a simple man, gimme a console anytime
@@guiguito5505 left 4 dead has split screen lol .
I loved Left 4 Dead 1 + 2 - and the main reason why was the Director. The way it could change things on the fly in unpredictable ways was brutal - but never unfair, if you paid attention to things like sound cues. Back 4 Blood knee-capped the Director with the card system - you basically see all the tricks the Director has in store beforehand.
My take on the best successor for L4D is Zombie Army series. It's basically the same deal, only more focused on the supernatural horror aspect and in 3rd person. Heck, the clunkiness of a WW2 sniper rifles are a perfect fit for a horror title, making you take care with your shots without feeling like someone is adding arbitrary BS between you and the controls. Plus Rebellion keeps supporting their games for long time and - unlike Valve - on all platforms, not just Steam.
I played the Zombie Army series, and I can say, they are the one who managed to follow L4D2's footsteps right, while making their own twist on it. It has the same premise: a level with several stages, divided by saferoom, 4 players, 2 weapons for each, throwables, elite version of the zombies, etc. It's basically slower-paced L4D2 with WW2 setting
Zombie Army is so great, i remember laughing for hours when i fought the zombie tank💀
@@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 That was some WH40k body horror, for sure! That's one of the many things I love about that series - it keeps hopping on both sides of the line between over-the-top and atmospheric and somehow still pulls it of.
I like the idea of being able to upgrade your character, but the card system makes you start over every game so it felt more like you were getting downgraded more than upgraded.
L4D was also simple anyone could play it
Do you ever wonder if there is any self awareness with these kind of devs?
Insane difficulty spikes killed this game for me and my friends.
Same! We would get decimated by some random unbeatable horde and my friends would be like: ya know what? F this game.
@@kcadventures1454
Same here. I played the same friends every Thursday night and we’re always looking for different multiplayer games to play. We were so hyped for this one.
We would go along, and things will be fine and all the sudden difficulty would go from one to 10 .
You’ll get wiped immediately and have to start all the way from the beginning . You did nothing wrong
@@DaveVoyles Agree, B4B is one hot pile of unbalanced and unfair shit. The difficulty from Veteran to Nightmare or Nightmare to No Hope is a joke, on top of that they doesn't give you the option to select levels like L4D but they force you to run through the entire act with 1 continue, and if you don't have any continues left, you got taken back into the very first level. This is so bullshit.
The most funny thing about it is most of those time you can't do shit about it, like, what do they expect us to do in order to fight off 4 tallboys,2 hockers, 5 reeker and have to watch out for birds,alarms all at the same time? On multiplayer,it is even worse if you don't have any friends to play with because those randoms are worse than bots. Not to mention the cursed cards system, like, why? This game failed hard from the start and it is very deserving not gonna lie.
@@DaveVoyles I feel ya man, it's so rare to find 4 player co op games these days to play with friends. Everything is battle royale or if it is co op it's only 2-3 players!?
@@PLYTATN you nailed every reason we hated this game.
L4D in general is a simple game, literally for everyone. Easy to chill to. You can mod with next to 0 issue most of the times. No skill trees or cards or whatever.
First Evolve now this, just like Crowbcat put it, Back 4 Blood proved that Valve carried Left 4 Dead, these people were more like contractor developers but the real visionaries and designers were from Valve, and it is sad to see that a 12 year old game is beating yours no wonder, they left it for dead
Honestly the Vermintide series is the true successor to L4D
Honestly? I think Deep Rock Galactic is probably the best coop shooter ever made next to L4D. It has so much depth, personality and is amazingly balanced.
Uh, World War Z?
@@somerandomdude7785 its shit
Imagine Vermintide with Left 4 Dead's modding support.
@@somerandomdude7785 uh no crap game got bored of it
The fact that any developer is making co-op content without looking directly at Deep Rock Galactic as a template is crazy to me. I have twice as much time in that than Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 combined - and I still feel like I'm accomplishing things when I play. Procedural maps in visually distinct biomes keep the experience fresh. There always has to be a limit on objective types, but if every journey to that objective feels like exploring new ground, it doesn't get old as quickly. That's one of the biggest problems I've always had with games in this genre.
Also, co-op focused gameplay with class synergies encourage teamwork and not just dragging people along because it makes things easier. Numerous requirements for traversal, visibility, combat prowess, and just plain safety encourage a team to stay together or fail - so you avoid that annoying situation where someone is just sprinting through a map for the objective.
Man back 4 blood was a huge yikes in the gaming industry. Turtle rock studios really lost alot of respect and rep with back 4 blood's failure. The biggest issue is that B4B tried to make killing zombies a "Another Day another zombie killing time" tone while L4D was more "Alright stick together, cover each others back and well make it" tone genuienly made me turn away from B4B. World war Z did a better job at being a L4D style game than B4B.
At this point, I'd be satisfied with L4D2 being remade on the new engine. Playing Silent Hill, Resident Evil and other horror maps with my buddies was an experience in itself. B4B felt like WWZ, nice for a week but then gets boring.
Granted the new engine should have the same level of modding support, or better.
@@TheR6R6R Yep. I forgot to mention that.
I love the Tragedy series. You should do a sister series called "The Triumph of..."
After evolve this was kind of expected. Great video.
I remember having fun in this with friends. The difficulty spikes were very bothersome, as if the AI director looked for an opportunity to hamper you in case you made any good progress. Unlike L4D, it didn't reward being quick, it punished you, or so it seemed. Once we finished the campaign, we never went back.
I'd give it another go, they've considerably smoothed out the experience. I wouldn't call it a 10/10, but if launch was a 6/10 its prolly a solid 8/10 now. Ironically at launch speedrunning, IE playing quick, was excessively dominant to the point it was difficult to get a match without people trying to force you to speed run. It's been balanced out a bit so both fast play and slow play are valid options. But I will warn you, B4B is a game where game knowledge matters more. L4D is very minimalist and you can shoot your way out of almost any mistake you make easily because of how fragile all enemies are. The answer to every situation is shoot it, or bash it. And this can actually even prevent almost every grab in the game too. (hunters can be bashed out of the air, smokers can be killed mid tongue) allowing people to cancel out their own mistakes and avoid punishment for bad play. In B4B you're prolly going to take damage or have someone go dwn on nightmare and above if you make big mistakes either by not having game knowledge or by being stupid.
Good example is Sleepers. An experienced B4B player is good at seeing sleepers and tries to stay fairly near his allies because one missed sleeper with you separated can mean bad things for you and the team. They basically fulfill the niche of the hunter around corners in L4D, except the hunter always give themselves away with a growl whereas sleepers are something you should always be able to see visually before entering their range. (or quickly learn where they are).
An experienced B4B team, even if only of middling skill, will complete the map "call to arms" with only a few alarms set off. Skilled L4D players who are not familiar with B4B will set off every fucking alarm because "gotta go fast" + "don't know what dangers exist in the game yet" is a pretty punishing combo. This is why when someone says something to the effect of "don't worry, im really good at L4D" its a red flag in B4B. It almost always means you've got a noob on your hands who will need to be carried and they'll be the last one to realize it.
@@Ralathar44B4B ended support tho LOL.
@@vyruss9348 The irony is that B4B fans have let it go. L4D2 fans did not lol. B4B fans moved on and L4D2 fans are still making major threads bitching about B4B :D. That's how much of a hate boner they've had for it. Literally another thread 5 days ago on the L4D2 subreedit about the game. Already 3rd highest upvoted thread of the entire last 30 days. That's how salty L4D2 fans still are. Honestly its just sad. Let it go already. I'm playing BG 3 and Starfield and Cyberpunk and having a great time not being stuck in the past.
It's a shame--a big reason that I never gave this game a shot was because of the card based progression system. Why cards? I don't understand why games with loadouts or perks insist on making them cards. There's really nothing different from it and a traditional perk system, but man. I just don't like it. Battlefield rubbed me the wrong way with it, and it still feels "ech" here
As originally released, the card system was very interesting because it was like an actual card game. You chose cards and put them in a specific order because you received 1 new card per mission. There was a strategy not just in which cards to include in your deck, but also when they could be "played". Difficulty increased as you progressed through a campaign, and the added card in each mission helped offset that.
Unfortunately, this was never made very clear to players. The entire tutorial system was a disaster/not really existent.
After about 6 or 9 months, they revised the whole thing and just gave you all your cards at the beginning of each campaign (adjusting difficulty to compensate for the increased player abilities). This simplified the card mechanics, but made the deck system pretty dumb. Might as well just create a skill system or tree like in any MMO or heavy RPGs. Would have been much easier to understand.
I just view cards as an aesthetic. Don't really love or hate them. Cards and decks vs skills and builds, its all the same thing. Feels weird to get hung up on it. It'd be like getting upset on whether someone called their money gold or zenny or credits or etc :D.
You know your game is bad when your predecessor comes back from the dead to show you how its done and persist in memory at the same time.
Funny thing is, L4D2 never died, and B4B is dead as hell now.
The absolute biggest thing that cemented the expectations of it being Left 4 Dead 3 by another name is right in the title.
The use of "4".
Was eagerly awaiting for this video after they announced ending support for Back 4 Blood.
Wait really?!?! Such a massive fat L if it's true lol
Lmao already? Damn, I dodged a bullet then
@@AHappyCub How is it an L, everyone is crapping on it anyway.
@@AHappyCub It is, you can look it up, earlier this year they announced it
@@mercster
An L for the devs, dude.
I played the Beta. Almost bought the game.. glad I didn't.
I’ll never forget the hour of my life I wasted playing the beta with some friends, and telling them “this game won’t last more than 3 years”
it didnt even last 3 years bruh 😭😭
From the start I knew game wasn’t gonna last long at all
@@mrinsomniac2968 You can play solo for as long as you like?
You want a good coop game?
Get Deep Rock Galactic, you won't regret it
Try playing coop with a woman
@@steelbear2063 sorry im not a leaf lover kid
Lest we forget, that the majority of the developers that made left for dead what it is aren't even in turtle rock studios
This one hit too close to home. Me and my buds were addicted to this game, and then their first update hit and it killed all joy we had in the game.
What happened in the first update?
@@Cloud-zx2mu "seasoning pass"
@@Cloud-zx2mu the first update had turtlerock focusing on balancing the game and nerfing the strongest strats while nightmare was still incredibly difficult
@@Someone-lg6di true!
well consider yourself lucky, i never found joy in this crap ever lmao
i got to like 3rd mission t hen deleted it and never went back
sometimes i think about it, then i say nahhhh and play something else lol
They could ensure a way longer lifespan for B4B with one simple choice. Allow modding. Players would've taken over the content creation.
The video Crowbcat dropped right after the release of that game is the best possible recap of why this game crashed and burn.
12:22 I thought that this animation of the zombie just rotating horizontally when it dies was a rare glitch only crowbcat could capture but seeing it here is just hilariously depressing
All the left 4 dead custom campaigns are so crazy i love the giant ship one and mall from dawn of the dead such talented designers ^^
Great content as always, one of the best FPS series out there. But Gvmers channel, I was wondering what happened to the excellent Kingdoms of Amalur documentary video you made?
What’s the one mode everyone played in left 4 dead 2? The 4 man team of survivors vs 4 man team of zombies while running through the story mission. The fact that back 4 blood didn’t have this and you could only play pvp in a set arena not the story levels. And you could only play story mode with 4 survivors in pve meant they doomed their game from the start.
that was just the normal campaign versus mode where both teams would fight each other to progress through the campaign and the zombie users got all the special units except for the witch
Never played 4 vs 4 nonsense in L4D. Hated it.
@@GZP1023 Sounds like a skill issue~
Been waiting on this
I would just like to remind people that L4D2 still gets 30k+ concurrent a day and is not a 'dead' game.
The difference between the most talented team in the world wanting to make the greatest game of all time, versus the team that was content to make something passable and cash in.
Wdym? Valve is good? Yeah they make great stuff but are garbage after launch (i am a tf2 player and need updates pls i beg them)
On top of disallowing mods which killed the long term sustainability of the game-it was a huge mistake for them to go all in on the “alien worm” aesthetic.
I quit the game when it asked me to fight a giant alien monster with a healthbar.
Left4Dead captured the aesthetic of the “zombie apocalypse” while back for blood felt more interested in outer space than zombies
Yeah, peoples love zombie apocalypse game when the monster still mostly resemble a human but when they start turn into some kind of giant alien dinosaur head that sprout out multiple tentacles it no longer feel like zombie apocalypse and more like some alien shooter game.
As a L4D fan, there were a few jarring concepts that I could feel diminish my enjoyment of B4B.
One was the personality themes presented by the cleaners of B4B vs the survivors of L4D. There were too many goofy one-liners, too humorous of an atmosphere, too much of a lack of sincerity. This negatively effected immersion and emotional investment.
The difficulty scaling was also insanely broken; perhaps the most broken of any game in recent memory. I remember looking up videos of the few groups that could actually clear nightmare mode. They had full mic communication and had to stick to very specific speed builds and just run through the levels without fighting enemies. They weren’t even trying to speedrun, you just couldn’t win the match if you invested in actual combat. This gameplay approach is contrary to the genre.
Another huge issue was the clunkiness of the enemy colliders and the slow down affect they had on you. This is harder to describe, but the enemies seemed to have larger, more disruptive colliders and could more easily induce slows on the player. Enemy attacks had a type of lag to them and would sometimes still hit they player even if the attack was dodged or interpreted beforehand. As a fan of the smoothness of Vermintide combat, this was incredibly distasteful.
I found myself just defaulting back to deep rock galactic.
What back 4 blood did is make people remember L4D is still there.
Me and my buddies tried so hard to like this game. That deck change was good but it was too little, too late
So you put a card system in the game so that players could make a build and play the game in a way that suited them, but the build was only mostly/fully active for only a third of the game and as soon as you finally got it going, you lost it. Real geniuses in the video game industry.
That's why it got changed back in June 2022, you start with your entire deck :p
At this point L4D2 will outlive every single cooperative shooter out there.
Because that game is awesome, does the formula correctly, has tons of content and isn't a live service cash grab
It's sad that back 4 blood had to go out like this and amazing video man :]
I got up at 5AM on a school day of my junior year in highschool to play OG L4D on release day. Played through the whole first campaign with a couple random guys who are still friends on steam. such a fun and vivid gaming memory. When L4D2 was released barely a year later, people were upset that it didn't change enough, but in hindsight, look at the staying power that game had! holds up so well TO THIS DAY. I'm 31 now with a busier life but if a friend asks if i wanna play a L4D2 Campaign, i am ALWAYS down.
Thats sick, L4D2 memories never get old, that game really is timeless.
I waited for years and years for the next game and it was so tragic :(
Just wanna say that now because of this whenever a company says "from the creators of " I immediately see that as a big ass red flag. And it goes into an instant wait for reviews and/or sales. Got burned by this (but not as bad as i got burned by callisto protocol since B4B was free on game pass) and callisto protocol since Callisto said they had a big name dev from dead space. Shows that no matter how big of a name you are, it doesn't mean instant gold lol. (At least in callisto protocols case. The back 4 blood people aren't the same people that worked on L4D1. Its been a long damn time between 2008 and 2021).
The ingredient needed for a good successor is Valve, it seems
Great video again 👍
Turtle Rock gave the idea, Valve gave us the experience.
It's quite simple, they didn't allow addons or mods, as soon as I heard that I refused to play the game
It came out in a time when I was no longer interested in zombies and already had Left 4 Dead 2, and had already completed all of it.
Great video! But I wasn't ready for beardless Matt Colville at 4:48
I think we can all agree that Back 4 Blood would've been received much better had it not been advertised as a successor to Left 4 Dead.
Ohhh a new Gvmers videos this is going to be good!!!
I wouldn't say WWZ pales in comparison to L4D. It's probably the closest we'll get to a proper L4D3 and the constant WWZ updates have really improved it over the years. Very pleasant surprise and fun if a bit grindy.
GVMERS SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO "THE TRAGEDY OF TURTLEROCK STUDIOS" CAUSE THEIR STUDIO MAKES PLENTY OF TRAGEDIES
could count the devs of turtlerock that actualy helped in production with my two hands, valve did most if not all the work
it's sad cause i actualy had quite high hopes for this one
I usually skip all the promotion stuff from a video, but this guy's voice delivers. Game devs should hire this guy to do some voice overs for mission/objective briefing stuff on a tactical shooter game.
I actually really liked Back 4 Blood, it's honestly a shame they stopped producing more content, especially with the Children of the Worm and River of Blood expansion, it really spiced up the game; the cult and level designs in the last two dlcs were really damn good, imagine if we had that consistent quality throughout the game with newer expansions.
There was so much more detail in L4D. Just like at the knifing difference with the kills
Can't wait for "The tragedy of NARAKA Bladepoint"
What's wrong with that game? It has sold a ton of copies and is a top seller for the past Steam holiday sales.
@@Daxter609 Are you paid to shill for this game like that or you just do it for free?
@@Rileykard I'm not I hardly follow the game but it has been a top earner on Steam so what exactly makes it a tragedy?
@@Daxter609 Is this bait? It's an online game that will eventually die. You are commenting on a channel famous for talking about dead games. Do I need to explain any further? Inb4 "muh steam". Do I also need to list all the top 10 steam games that died anyway?
@@Rileykard Mate chill. He's just asking a question about a game he doesn't follow.
Beautiful video
Current turtlerock tried to ride off their new game on the success of l4d, saying “from the creators of l4d” but didn’t tell people there are no l4d devs in their team
Am I the only one who actually enjoys this game quite a bit?
Nope I love and play this game too, you're not the only one