It's kinda funny to me how there are so many small things in L4D that we just sort of take for granted just because it "feels" natural. It's like that quote in Futurama: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
13:50 "We base the music on what the player is actually experiencing and not on what we want them to experience" is such a good game design quote, I love it.
its kind of fascinating how left 4 dead and minecraft went the exact opposite direction in terms of the triggers and choice of music cues, yet both are acclaimed for doing it incredibly well their own way
Its fair, never noticed it either, but considering the few campaigns (i know, its about speed runs and shit) but the details bring at least that sorta fine cut
Same here. Genuinely made me realized how smooth, fun and natural L4D2 (and l4d1? haven't played it myself) feels. B4B just feels so artificial and overpolished
It actually looks much better than most other games today. I'm going to assume it's just too complicated a process to replicate. Otherwise I feel like more games really need this level of detail, because despite the outdated graphic engine, the zombie movement/animations look absolutely amazing even by today's standards.
talk for yourself, kid. I always liked the animations, shadows, storyline and characters (they felt so real when i was younger). So nope, not all of us were "spoiled". Sometimes i've just damaged lone zombies in a different parts with a diffetern weapon, because it was really unusual to see so many different reactions.
The one thing I absolutely love about this video is the fact you don't have to speak at all, the dev commentary is just there to show the dedication, you could watch this video muted and still get it.
Blows my mind that game companies have higher budgets than ever and every possible way to monetize a game, but they can't create the fundamentals of what makes great games
Its all about making the most Money with the least Budget/Effort possible Thinking that made me quit learning how to be a Game developer, the industry is full of corporate BS
True They made the collisions and invisible walls more realistic. You can actually jump a little on the barricaded rubble that block the map. That military truck / jeep at bottom kf stage 1 no mercy hospital apartments you can walk on it.
@@Redtortise-vf9xu since you can play L4D1 campaign in L4D2 i think most player will just play L4D2 because there are more contents, also L4D2 have steam workshop.
@@yongyea4147 Nah as a Left 4 Dead fan it was blatantly obvious that special infected have missing cues, there's no music, and the AI director is just constantly spawning zombies around you without any valleys in the action, same thing with every single level being boring. I guess designing organically progressing linear environments is much harder than just funneling players through couple feet wide corridors. It's almost like you need actual talent to make a fun game, not just the "original creator's" idea. I deleted the beta of Back 4 Blood and never looked back. It's mindbending that 10 years later they made a WORSE, more generic zombie shooter
@@yongyea4147 No, the violence, characters, music, refined gameplay, and stellar visual effects are hardly thing you don't notice go missing. And all of that IS MISSING in Back 4 Blood.
Damn, I miss the days when psychologists were hired to suggest how the game could be more engaging and repayable rather than suggesting how to manipulate players into spending copious amounts of cash post entry
@@nikolababic4783 Maybe talks at gdc, a recent game that the devs worked with psychologists is hellblade senua's sacrifice, there is a 20min video on youtube. There are probably studies about that too I would guess.
I don't really care about Back 4 Blood, but this made me realize just how much of a masterpiece Left 4 Dead is. It's even more impressive when you find out that it was released over 13 years ago.
The strength of this channel is that it doesn't even need commentary, the footage speaks for itself and the developer commentary is just the cherry on top.
That's what makes it so stand-out and unique. While all the other channels are just a bunch of talking heads spouting their opinion, Crowbcat shows the world the truth with real footage. He does his homework and compiles it all in an educational and simultaneously funny presentation. I love this guy, I really do. He's the hero the gaming world needs today.
Video gaming has become so corrupted, soulless, and generally terrible that all you need to do is show people factual information or footage to prove it how awful it is. Same goes for the society we live in now.
Show, don't tell That is how i feel Crowbcat operates and i have to admit, it takes legitimate skills to be able to deliver the needed brutal honesty and criticism without anything else other than the actions themselves.
My favorite thing about these videos is when it shows the empty, corporatized hype at game shows/reveals, and cuts right to janky, soulless gameplay. It's the same punchline everytime, but it never fails to entertain.
Honestly the best part about these videos. Sure someone can sit down and have a huge rant/essay/review about why something is bad, but humans tend to be emotional, opinionated and biased. This type of video "commentary "is just clips side by side. Let the game and the devs and marketings own words speak for themselves. Quite the sobering experience.
L4D 1 and 2 could be the curriculum in a masterclass on game design. It's actually hard to believe how simple and elegant they were, looking at them from a modern perspective. AAA mutliplayer games with no costmetics, loot boxes, microtransactions, crafting, levelling or perk unlocking. No treadmills of any kind to artificially extend playtime - just extremely well-designed, fun-as-hell gameplay. Created by devs who carefully considered every aspect, right down to the tiny details. I've always wished for a game to recapture a similar feeling to the many hours I spent playing them, and have never found one.
I don't think crafting would have been inherently bad. and they still needed DLC. And they still changed the tone of the game from L4D1 to L4D2. but they're so good to play still today
The ending showing just how many of the people behind Left 4 Dead were from Valve, and how little went on to Turtle Rock is jaw dropping. Great work as always Crowbcat.
False advertising and idiot consumers is the only reason why the gaming industry hasn't crashed yet, along with anti-consumer practices like pre-order bonuses and microtransactions. The industry should have crashed over a decade ago.
@@JagerFrostTroll sadly consoomers outnumber everyone else by a large amount and with more and more airheads getting into gaming every year that number will only grow. as long as people dont give enough of a shit about their own money to not quite literally let someone legally steal it from them it will never ever crash.
@@billieeisenhower406 The Tank is literally the boss-tier enemy of the L4D franchise. Their spawns are completely unique compared to other special infected which all share the slots.
The reason why the Back 4 Blood devs refuse to make it open to mod makers, is because they're insecure that the modders will do a better job at making Back 4 Blood a better experience. Meanwhile in Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, you can play as Obama, Altair, Kiryu, and 2B fighting a horde of Amogus with an M60 straight from nam, a balloon sword, chicken, a case of bud light, and anabolic steroids.
The debunking of “the creators of Left4Dead” selling point was also huge. Back4blood really used that tagline as a crutch in their PR moves. Fooled people into trusting that the game was in good hands. People who are now questioning the drop in quality and not being able to pinpoint it.
I didn't even have to look at direct gameplay to realize it wasn't gonna be good. The trailers themselves were obvious, and awful. Just another studio shamelessly relying on a now very ancient success. I always hated that shit.
I was about to complain that that's illogical, NOTHING can explain everything in 5 seconds, not even Crowbcat. Then I saw the ending and I completely changed my mind. Lol.
The character comparison part was heartbreaking. So much effort went into making the survivors of l4d and l4d2 into human beings and b4b can only produce the most generic smarmy marketable non people I've ever seen and heard in my life
Agreed, b4b characters feel like corporate pandering. Nothing really memorable except the negative aspects. That one tuff girl that constantly spams "oh, so I'm to blame?" after friendly fire makes me want to team kill her immediately
Do the same thing with credits for other companies' newer games that claim to be from the "save good old devs" trying to resurrect the "good old franchise" (Blizzard is a good example) to instantly die from a heart attack. This method of false advertisement is used really often by now corporate money sucking companies (Once again, like Blizzard).
I wish more games had the developer commentary that a lot of Valve games have. They provide a fantastic look into what the developers had in mind when they were making their games.
It’s hilarious that in L4D2 the character Nick was intentionally given a narcissistic personality & even though he has this trait they still managed to make him a likeable character right from the start. Yet in B4B they tried so hard to make all of their characters so unrealistically badass they unintentionally made them all not only narcissistic but extremely unlikable right from the start. The one line about “We are here to take back our world” just summed B4B up, L4D wasn’t about a bunch of hero’s trying to save the world from a zombie apocalypse, it was about a bunch of survivors working together to stay alive in a zombie apocalypse.
Nick works because you can actually see him grew as a better and more mellowed guy as the game goes and he warming up to each of his friends, so he always got the time and room to make you grow to love him. B4B characters are already made to be this badass and "cool" people so you never get time to see them grow, thus never give you time to like them and came off as coolish pretenders.
@@Bacony_Cakes The point is they still give a shit about polish, don't chase graphical fidelity at the expense of everything else, and do their own thing-for better or worse. Not that I endorse everything the company does forever, or even play most of what they put out.
I only realized this just now but at 0:30, Francis tries to shove the hunter when he wakes up out of pure instinct. That's some attention to detail from the animator.
I never really noticed the zombie animations in L4D much. I kind of took it for granted. But focusing in on them, they are truly amazing and really add depth and emersion to the atmosphere and experience.
I also took it for granted, thinking it's generic staple quality animations, cuse I really didn't know any better, and the zombie craze was just getting started if not started at all back then,
I think that the fact you never noticed them until you looked is the best statement of their quality possible. The best implemented systems are the ones that are so seamless you don't notice them.
Crazy to think I lived through the "L4D2 Boycott". Even if the game is simple on the surface, the amount of polish that you can't physically see (The Director, music cues, AI, animations, map design) explain why L4D2 has stood the test of time. Heck, it's one of only a few games I have never uninstalled on my computer.
You know that old quote that goes somewhat like : unfortunately "revolutionary" for games is just catching up to what valve was doing a decade ago That quote is like a decade old on its own now lol
@@kR-qj7rw yeah, literally another games like Half life, 26 years old and that game had better standards that most of the newest games of this years, is like saying that a 2003 movie have better CGI than a 2023 movie, sadly that's also happens
Its crazy how good, the ragdoll animation/physics is. When they standing up, they support themselves with their arms. Valve did so many things so much ahead of its time. There's still so much that other companies haven't done as well to date.
@yes I disagree. I don't think the differences between the two games are that severe. Left 4 Dead is fantastic, and is probably the better game overall, but Back 4 Blood has some advantages. Overall I think the issues this video outlines are mostly pretty minor
@@jcdentonunatco True, this video only showed that L4D had better animations, physics, gore, atmosphere, mechanic, AI, audio design, etc... People are just overreacting over these very minor issues and overlooked B4B's advantage that is the quirky diverse cast and RNG card gameplay.
Changing the steam description to "creators of Evolve" is the hottest, sickest burn ever. I can't believe that I was tricked into thinking that Turtle Rock were the geniuses behind everything great about Left for Dead.
weve seen great rebirths from original-studios-now-free in recent years though (planet coaster, tony hawks), so its not too far fetched to have thought b4b would be a great redoing of l4d
I mean, they were the geniuses behind left 4 dead. Then valve hired everyone of those geniuses and left behind everyone else to pick up the scraps of the company lmao
@@DrCranberry turtle rock might be “geniuses” that came up with l4d but valve was by far and away the ones running the show creative wise and business wise
Not to mention old games came as complete experiences, now you are sold scaffolding and the rest of it costs you triple the price of an old game. Whoever says "it's to support developers" it is not, I know no developer ever becoming wealthy out of microtransactions, only publishers do.
True last progression was when 360 and ps3 hit with hdmi after that it's been complete copy paste games. Retro arcade games and chain smoking is the best.
"Cooperative first-person shooter from the creators of -Left 4 Dead- *Evolve* Well done, Crowbcat. That ending was an amazing surprise and shows how much research you really put into it. I have an amazing appreciation for L4D and will play it again later.
@@MCXL1140 Ehhhhhhh, there were some very real issues with the core gameplay loop as well. Maybe this wasnt true if you got good enough at the game, but for a lot of the playerbase, a lot of you time with the game was spent running in a big circle around the map trying to find the monster, clashing for a very brief encounter, and then repeating until one side managed to secure a win.
really feels like a product of this current era. every character needs to be a hero with unique abilities, every game needs to have meta-progression and unlocks, like studios are afraid that their games aren't exciting enough on their own. sometimes less is more. doubly so if having 'more' means that the underlying systems end up being less solid
These characters definitely have no depth. They have personalities to an extent, but feel more like they are taken right out of a modern Marvel movie with their crap jokes instead of being believable survivors in an apocalypse.
One of the reasons I really liked the MCC hitting PC was that - for the most part - none of the early Halo games really overstayed their welcome. Kind of feels like a lot of the more modern stuff i've come across tries to lean hard into the "this is now your day job" angle, like a update on the glut of '00s GTA clones.
Lots of newer games feel like assets in a sandbox. Not type of tuning or unique blend of characters, npc, environment, and mechanics working in unison. It’s just has that jink feeling, that bad unfinished feeling. Sad
I only played the first few areas in back 4 blood but every time you go somewhere new it makes you go through a lengthy menu to pick out cards that effected the gameplay and different inventory items. My friends and I always spammed our way through it because we couldn’t care less about it and just wanted to play the damn game.
I always liked the various music cues that play during special attacks, but when he said at 13:50 that they based the music on "what the player is feeling," that makes it SO MUCH BETTER. The music that plays when you get ensnared by a Smoker or spotted by a Witch is EXACTLY the emotion you feel when that happens in-game. Mad respect to Valve and composer Mike Morasky.
Hearing Gabe talk about “making a game that our fans would be proud of because they built our business” feels like a fever dream. Hearing passion and drive to make a good product is all to rare in the industry nowadays. Investors decide what gets put out and it’s going to be what makes the most $$$
Yeah and keep in mind the context of it also was that L4D2 was released very shortly after the first game, so there were many people asking if it was proper sequel or if it should have been a DLC for the original.
That's where the "companies exist to make money" mindset got us. Money above all else, and then you'll get blamed for expecting a decent product and buying it like a constant game of "quit hitting yourself".
@@MacenW I feel the same. Though the company's policies and relationships with their own series are debatable, it's hard not to trust them at least a bit, considering arguably everything they've put out is still regarded a wonder of game design decades later
Even though the running joke is that valve can’t count to 3, they literally will not ship an unfinished game. They want every product to be a labor of love
Man, their games last for a lot of years I mean, look at Left 4 dead 2 and Team Fortress 2, a lot people play both of them today, they are almost inmortal, even without important updates (mostly in TF2) Man, they deliver quality, yeah, they have their ups and downs, but they will give quality, fun, great ideas, and not, NOT EVEN ONE, unfinished product, no matter what other people think Valve wants well earned money, no copy- paste a game to charge more money, demostrating it by releasing Left 4 dead 2 a year after the first one Yes, im looking to you, Copy Paste Duty Vanguard
I used to think Rockstar got the same principle. Theeen....remaster controversies happen. Even if the remaster was good, they still put crackdown on the mod community. I hope Crowbcat delivers that too on next video
Valve's Developer Commentary modes in their games really show how little other studios care for the stuff they make. Valve is already sharing their winning formula in detail and other devs still won't take the hint
Problem is a lot of other companies are public, so they have to appease to shareholders & deadlines before making a good game. Valve on the other hand is private & Steam is the infinite money maker, and that's why their games can spend years in development hell and they won't bleed a penny.
@@industriastroll3177 But that wasn't the case with Half Life 1 for example. They were amateurs then, but already then they had a passion for video games and what makes them good. I suggest you watch the 25th anniversary documentary on Half Life by Valve. It was super interesting!
@@industriastroll3177Add Steam to the equation. They are practically not required to release any games to receive profits. In short, their store already does all the work.
@@TrentMac There's a difference here. Turtle Rock might've been the studio to create Back 4 Blood, but it lacks the very developers who have love and passion for their development projects. The way I see it, Turtle Rock is a cold husk compared to what it was when they were with Valve.
@@industriastroll3177p much Share holders and higher ups Games go from art to soul less business when that happens. Its not about fun but how much $$$$ you can make
This discussion proves that a good looking game has nothing to do with how many thousands of polygons or lighting arrays. Graphics have a say, sure, but artstyle does too.
Never really noticed these nuances when playing L4D2 when I was younger. But I guess thats the point right? It added so much to the atmosphere and tone and you don’t really notice how much it matters til its not there anymore. First time seeing B4B all I could think was “Something’s off, something is missing” now i know
I always noticed those things inside valve motor. Thats why i have playef half life 2 campaign since im like 14 years old xd. That game feels diferent, is like a world inside a world. The vast mayority of other games feel more superficial in comparison. Even to this day. Another good example of that is dishonored, the game feels alive with that little details.
that is true when i played b4b the first few times it felt.....off, maybe its cuz i didnt notice the gore like l4d2 has or guns dont have the weight behind them like when ya fired a magnum in l4d2 you felt the power it has vs b4b weightless feel
@@bomnitoperro9422 Walking around in the real world these days is a bit like walking around City 17 in Half-Life 2 with the covidstapo shutting down businesses and oppressing the people.
i know right, its amazing how much you don't realize how all the little things just add on to make a game go from amazing to " this doesn't feel right"
Was thinking of this watching this. I didn't even notice the detail of zombie animations in L4D when I was younger until I watched this video but when you compare it to an experience without it, it's night and day. The contextual music is a huge one as well. Didn't neccessarily notice it when it isn't there but it definitely makes a huge difference sub conciously
As a kid now teenager I never played left for dead because I only had a PlayStation, and playing it for the first time when I turned 18 and saved up for a computer really made me appreciate it more today.
remember, everyone: visual design is not the same thing as graphics. bad design decisions can make a modern game look WORSE than an older game, even if the texture quality and resolution are higher. animations and lighting are superbly important. and don't forget sound design. if your guns sound dull and muted, why do you even have guns in your game?
Sound design is massively important. I love Left 4 Dead, but I still refuse the tier 1 submachine gun (even though I consider automatics better than shotguns) because it doesn't sound as weighty as any other weapon in the series.
15:18 For anyone who doesn't know this little fun fact, early playtesters would find it easier to ignore the breaker and run ahead than actually fight it due to how its attacks are programmed. They would just run past it and semi-speed run the levels since they're so short with barely any actual objectives. (Fun fact, the stuff like grabbing the supplies the level before the Diner finale was not part of the original design, that was added later on to pad it out) The _ENTIRE_ reason that it spawns a swarm circle is to _force players to confront it before moving on._ The reason the game has so many mundane objectives like 'destroy the hive' or 'grab the supplies' or 'save the survivors' is to fill out the levels so they dont feel as short. (You could actually see this problem laid bare on levels where they don't have anything like this, and people made speed builds and got to the end of the level before most players were 1/5th of the way through.) But hey, that's just, like, my opinion man, dont sue me
Imagine having worse physics and AI design than a game that was crafted in 2009. This game is the definition of "how dare you stand where he once stood"
Imagine still wondering about how games getting worse at this point. Welcome to the gaming industry 2021/22. Downgrade. Filled to the brim with bugs. Overpriced.
Even Sekiro has dogshit stealth/AI and it was GoTY 2019. Patrolling enemies literally walk over their dead allies (that you just killed) without getting alerted. Half life had better ai 2 decades ago than modern GoTY titles
Those last seconds of the video gave me chills, i knew something was off with B4B after i stopped playing it cause it bored me unlike L4D that i've been playing for years.
dude i legit got bored after playing 3 hours early access, i got a key from watching a streamer and legit got bored of the game in a single day, and i saw the price of the game when it released and i couldnt believe it.. because i literally spent less than 5 dollars on L4D2 4 years ago and yet i still enjoy it to this day
Just one of the things I loved about Left 4 Dead. You can feel the stopping power slowing the infected to a halt when you shoot them. It's also baffling how much life (or lack thereof) was put into the Left 4 Dead Infected; How much blood covers their clothing, how emotional the infected faces are, in their body language, hell, even down to the hordes' mosh pit style behavior...
I never realized how incredibly polished Left4Dead was until seeing this. Had not seen the commentary before now either. But this shows only a tiny piece of how difficult this all is. I hope Turtle Rock can be more successful with their goals in the future.
The commentary in _all_ of their old games is amazing, and a genius way to interact with it. 2000's-Valve were the pinnacle of linear storytelling, both on an in-game and meta level. They'd mastered "show, don't tell"... but when they decide to tell, hoo boy do they tell.
Now we know why Valve time is what it is. and Yeah you don't notice polish because i feels and looks natural, like its supposed to be there. You know it by its absense
finally.... I'm really glad people are done wasting their time with new games like b4b. I play l4d2 often and the only other ppl are latinos and asians, I love that they play but they often don't speak english like me so its hard to communicate.
man, makes you appreciate how lucky we were back then that all these things were considered. Now high poly models and better textures have seemingly replaced all the other immersion work that used to take place :(
+1 indeed. This is an underrated take that most glance over. "but Duh Grafpics!?!" dedication to artstyle and gameplay > graphics hence why tetris and minecraft can outsell this lump of garbage.
@@derekbarbosa even then, the graphics in left 4 dead are very solid for their time comparing the colorless and almost grey filter of gta 4 and far cry 2 to the diverse left 4 dead and its sequel shows a noticeable difference
I assume that with all of the hardware shortages that Devs will have to go back to working on optimization for games, which may lead them to learning how to work with limitations again. hopefully...
I feel like the L4D characters are people trying to actually survive and making light of the situation at times by crackimg up jokes. While the B4B characters are playing a virtual zombie game.
Man this shows just how important attention to detail is in games. When I first played Back 4 blood it immediately felt off and just unpolished. In L4D the elite zombies were the showcase and main event. In B4B the elites were the most annoying part
I also felt like the B4B elites had no character, they all look the same (I think that's a colour/artstyle thing) and they pretty much sound the same. In L4D when there was a Smoker you would see it, hear it, the music, your friends screaming. Same for all the other elites.
@@KerupukKeju Its because there's different classes of the same infected. From more than ten feet away, they all look the same (within their respective 'breed' or whatever) Their weekspots are in different places, with the tallboy having his arm severable, and the crusher style has a normal head weakspot. The bloat characters I really don't like. They're extremely similar and have center mass weakspots. One explodes and draws a horde, the other explodes and doesn't. They both have the same slime effect. The swarm causing one can puke, the one that just explodes causes knockback. I'm currently having fun with this game. They went more vermintide than left 4 dead with this one, with the perk system allowing for min/max builds and higher difficulty. Having a build around hipfiring LMGs while crouching was fun. Hipfire sprinting shotgun was fun. Meta builds aren't. I've had fun with this game, but deeprock galactic just came out for playstation for free, so I'll probably dump 400 hours into that before I put 70 into b4b. For me, blood hangs on future content. If they really are "the creators of left 4 dead" they'll put out whole campaigns for free like they did for l4d2. We'll see.
Absolutely. Nowadays the only developers I really trust are indie ones and one or two reliable big houses. Other than that when a new big game comes out I wait at least a year for reviews and potential sales even if I'm really interested (which is not often though realistically)
When game engines and such are becoming more accessible and easier to use - the talent, effort and knowledge to create something actually great decline. Devs have become lazy. Too many recent games with lack of effort and thought into the overall design. Only a few studios are still passionate to uphold their reputation for the highest standards like Rockstar, Valve and Naughty Dog.
@@ruok3351 Rockstar used to be amazing, but now with how much they keep milking GTA online and not focusing on making a new game, I think its safe to say that they have fell into making cash grabs. Imagine how great it would be if we had a new gta with all the modern technology, but for the past 7 years its been the same game, with dlcs that are used to boost shark card sales, and then they just have shitty remasters of their old games that carried their company. Imagine a new GTA game with all the detail that GTA IV and V had.
Yeah Left 4 Dead isn't a technical marvel or anything (the source engine itself was pretty ahead of the times though) it's simply a good game that is the result of developers that care about their product and spend all their time and effort focusing on what makes the best experience. Nowadays developers are only thinking about how their game can be Fortnite 2 so they can extract as much money as possible from the wallets of their playerbase. Doesnt matter if they have fun, only matters if they continue to give you money for battle passes and ridiculous, immersion breaking cosmetics.
I think you mean all games by Triple A companies. Some indie games are still great and innovative. Although the Triple A side is just Hyping up, Selling unfinished games and nothing else.
@@kgkomrin Absolutely, Ive actually been playing better and better games recently because I keep finding Indie Gems lately now that Ive leaned away from big titles. It's really great to see the medium in this new light!
I mean, even for it's time, Left 4 Dead was really good. It's just that we didn't know how good we had it. With developers who had passion and ideas to make good video games. Nowadays, it's more about making the most money for the least amount of effort.
the character writing part is what made me realize how much i hate this "Millenial Writing". like lady; there's a zombie apocalypse, your loved ones are already dead or something worse happened to them, your life will never be the same "I'M a CoLLeGe GirL wiTH a BasEbALL bAt". left 4 dead games also had humor in them but it never felt misplaced, the bickering between characters felt real and allowed players to understand them better. while B4B characters just make lifeless jokes and drop meaningless F-bombs
Exactly. That's why I love characters like Nick. While he seems very spiteful, almost like he hates the rest of the group. Throughout the campaigns they grow on him as he also feels concerned for them (especially if you hear the dialogue when he heels teammates)
@@ZelphTheWebmancerTell that to those "quirky" writers then. Or, better yet, tell them to quit their jobs since writing isn't something they're good at.
The amount of buildup that went into that final sequence with the credits and highlighting the "devs from L4D that actually worked on B4B" was simply genius.
You could count the original devs on one hand. So damned disappointing. We deserve a L4D3 and this bs is what we got. L4D is how I got my wife into video games. It's her all-time favorite game and she's played dozens of other games since L4D2. Btw She HATES B4B.
You can really tell that they're sweating everytime they or someone mentions that they created left 4 dead. TurtleRock made the idea, Valve made the 𝘌𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦.
Not really its more they used the source engine which is a really good engine for its time. It just goes to show thay game studios when using or creating an engine need to get it right because it controls the entire feel of your game.
@dirk diggler yes but the things they showcase like the superior rag doll, facial expresions, lighting, great ai even to an extent with light modifications dismemberment. All of these are whay made the source enginge great. Im honestly worried for games if every major release is just tied to unreal or unity. They are honestly fairly sloppy game engines. Although they might have turned it around with unreal 5. Wont know till we see more games using it.
@@chrisscott3071No, literally, an overwhelming majority of the creators of Left 4 Dead were Valve employees, with the idea of the game coming from Turtle Rock. Turtle Rock came up with the first conception, the idea. Valve gave it love, sweat, tears, and wanted to make an amazing game.
As far as I know it was turtle rock which made the game. The thing is that the majority of turtlerock has left turtlerock to work for valve. They enjoyed working with valve more than only for turtlerock
The fact they literally said that they won't allow mods for B4B and never will in the future is enough to convince me that the game is gonna go straight to the trash bin.
21:42 Damn, Remember when Devs and Publishers were actually scared on making sequels because gamers are very cautious and strongly against bleeding a franchise dry for money. So they actively had to try to make their sequels good ? _(looks at Ubisoft, EA, and Activision)_ Yeah... The good old days...
@@different_stuff This account is stolen I just hacked it some random cringe kid and the steam account on this account is literally rich which is it has proximately 300+ paid games And I know they already avoided making 3 because "Gaben can't count" but they also need to release a new game to hype those people who is been waiting for a new half life game
It is incredible to me that Gabe was discussing proving to players that L4D2 was a worthy continuation of the franchise to warrant the price tag. Meanwhile most games nowadays release half baked and are as disappointing as ever. Especially considering that L4D2 is one of the greatest games of my lifetime, it is mind boggling to think what we took for granted during this time period in regards to what games we had at our disposal. Imagine all of the disappointing releases of the past 5 years, and then place that thought in your mind next to the fact that people were genuinely opposed to the creation of L4D2 once upon a time. Fascinating stuff.
I read it somewhere, it's actually the reason why Valve never announced l4d3, hl3 / hl2ep3, portal3, and any other third related title. GabeN wants it to be perfect and don't want to let down the fans. it's better to have no deadline and keep silent on the new game until they really think it's a perfect game. Well, at least that what I read. New Source Engine need to be finished first tho.
For a little context on the backlash L4D2 received, Valve initially told players that L4D1 was going to receive continual updates and DLC, so it was a little weird that after receiving no updates, a second game was announced. At the time of announcement, a lot of people saw it as like, developing a bunch of new maps and weapons for TF2 and releasing it seperately as TF3
There have been some amazing games made in the current era though. God of War, RDR2, GTAV (on release), the Spider-Man games, and so on. I agree it’s on a downtrend. But it’s a individual studios problem more so than gaming as a whole.
You gotta keep in mind that L4D2 came out only a year after L4D, so the criticism of a sequel so soon was understandable because Valve doesn’t do that. People were concerned Valve was going to do annual low effort sequels.
This proves to me that we were wrong back in the day to see awesome games like L4D and think "Damn with future tech, games will be even more amazing". It shows that talent will always be more impactful than technology. Always.
Yea it's a common thought that the more powerful game development environments are getting, the better the game is. But if you know how game development works, you know it's not the case. Alot of it can come down to what to focus on.
Talent, experience, dedication and pride in their work. The people at Valve _wanted_ to make a great game, and had the understanding of what it takes to do that, and the dedication to do it. It also helps to have all the Valve resources and backing. There are just so many things about L4D that make it great. And I think a lot of those things are not known or understood by other developers. I watch the developer commentary and can't help wondering if the developers of B4B did.
"It shows that talent will always be more impactful than technology. Always." This honestly. I've seen tons of people harp about Unreal 5 going: "Games will look super amazing and like life now" "Console will surpass PC with this" and so and so forth, but it is always the person that works with the engine that has to be capable to get everything out of it.
gave B4B a hell of a try, for almost a full year its pretty much all I played... but you know what happened. I Started playing L4D2 again and havent stopped... There is no comparison when it comes to Replay L4D2 is a Juggernaut even after 10+ years.
I also gave b4b a 4th try yesterday, but I got bored of it, and rather frustrated from it, because stuff like trauma and the continue system limit creativity and fun with the game.
I've been trying and it's o.k. but I'm unable to get past a part in the abomination fight without someone else because the bots don't shoot at the objective only at infected. Still absolute garbage compared to L4D and there's way too much extra junk with all the supply lines and cards.
Generally when the marketing goes "from the creators of [older but amazing IP]" what they generally mean is that they just have one or two people from the original team.
That's how I kind of felt when they kept selling Outer Worlds as "From the creators of Fallout: NV". Granted, Outer Worlds turned out rather well and stands as a good game on its own. But you can't call it another New Vegas by any stretch.
@@commanderzander580 outer worlds was made by the creators of the fallout universe in general, not 1 or 2 devs but the ones that came up with every concept and were behind fo1, fo2 and NV
A largely underappreciated aspect of L4D zombie's animation is how they continue running and walking towards you even after they technically die from a gameplay perspective. Not only this looks a lot more natural and fluid, it really adds up to the whole horror experience, forcing you to be on alert even when the danger had passed and spent far more bullets than you have to sometimes.
That was probably one of the most frustrating and irritating mechanics of Left4Dead for me. Knowing now that it was intentional and why they did it, I can appreciate the artistry at least... but man does it make the game so much more infuriating to actually play. And it cheats you out of the satisfaction of kills too, because instead of feeling like you killed the zombie yourself or giving you a satisfying ragdoll, they all die from "bleeding out" instead.
So true. The normal game idea of instant ragdolling removes the connection period from life to death. It's just an on and off switch. To add the stagger here where you can't even be sure where along the way the zombie actually died is so important. It adds SO much realism in such a split second of information
@@cynthius6567 It's because the game feels like it cares about immersion above all else. In real life you would not be able to tell when the zombie is truly out of commission. It adds a skill cap too where you can stop shooting earlier by sort of memorizing when the zombie is actually dead, and thus you can save more bullets with more experience. Back4Blood is about arcadey zombie shooting. Left4Dead is about immersion in a post apocalypse
I remember my first time through the airport getting outside and the plane crashed. Louis, Bill, Francis and Zoey, in unison, yelled "HOLY SHIT!" I have never been able to replicate that experience. They have never done it again. It was and is magical the way this game is designed to feel so infinitely replayable.
Man that last part with the people who went from L4D to B4B was brutal, and it is a testament to Valve's abilities how replayable their games are even if they stop making content for those games
It was the modding community that gave L4D a huge following and an endless experience of gameplay. Sure the core game is super fun especially with friends but once u finished the main story or maps it can get repetitive. Thats the biggest difference between B4B and L4D.
@@nico5179 you say that but you should realize that the reason why the modding community is still as robust as it is is because Valve set up their games to be receptive for modding. It's still a point that goes to Valve regardless since unlike other companies, they never forgot their roots and how modders were the foundation behind their success. This only gets emphasized even further when you get companies like Bethesda that started shunning the very people who make their games playable at the advent of FO76.
@Jackoftrades I'm not gonna totally condemn turtle rock because Valve does have a track record of not communicating with third party developers they work with, it's not just turtle rock that went through this, it's also what caused the rift between Valve and Gearbox. That said what I take issue is them claiming they MADE l4d, which crowb disproved. It does amuse me to find out that the creator of Portal also had a hand in L4D.
When it talked about how they hired numerous stuntmans for the common infected death animation, I just realized how detailed their movements were and how it added so much to the experience and gameplay.
@@domskillet5744 This is probably one of the most annoying things about creating anything in general. If you do it right it "feels natural" and goes unnoticed. if you do it wrong everyone will notice and criticize it.
Crazy how Valve said "we wanted to take an extremely successful game and make it even better, not just make money off a successful title." Exactly what's wrong with entertainment nowadays
@@scottjefferson4048 There's also the fact that sequels aren't particularly needed for their flagship series, outside of the obvious half life. Portal and L4D have "finished" storylines, and TF2 doesn't need a sequel.
Not only does this showcase how unpolished Back 4 Blood is, but also just how much time, care, and effort Valve puts into things. As impressive as Left 4 Dead is, this just brings to light how far ahead Valve was against the rest of the industry, even a decade later. This video gave me a new appreciation for this game. Thanks, Crowbcat.
It's a shame that Valve doesn't make games anymore, just VR masterpieces that only people with money can play. Hope the teaser from the end Half-Life: Alyx comes true.
It's just about graphics and physics. If this was about content, it'd be vastly different while also stating how L4D2 was carried by community content instead.
@@Pandize Well even content is same or better than B4B. It even proofed itself with already 2 big, free updates that added new maps (Cold Stream and the Last Stand recently) with some game and bug improvements. B4B already advertised PAYED DLCs from the get go before it has been even released... So L4D has the superior graphics, physics, content, mods and even the bigger playerbase, while still running on a lower end system compared to B4B. The game felt so empty and unbalanced in the beta and most people from my friends list who bought it dropped it.
The facial expressions part is also evident in Valve's other product of the same era TF2. You literally can see how much they cared for emotions and expressions of their characters.
The funny thing is that the characters having facial expressions almost seems pointless, since you never notice it in the heat of battle. You can almost "get" why the B4B devs didn't put time/resources into it. Ha, but booooy, once you see what it looks like without it, you definitely start to notice it. Honestly, Valve should be happy Turtle Rock made this game - you never quite notice how polished and detailed something is until you see it without those things!
@@ruffusgoodman4137 And there's said pearl clutching, gotta love forced, fake outrage. Oh boo hoo, you can't use taunt or laugh in official versus games now. My heart bleeds for you.
15:52: also because the Tank was a threat in other ways, aside from just being a bullet sponge: - He could easily outrun you or your teammates (even on open spaces). - He followed you _everywhere you went, and nothing stopped him._ - One punch sent you flying, leaving you stunned and more vulnerable. - _Extremely powerful_ ranged attacks that could end the match in seconds. - Made throwing Molotovs or gas cans a gamble. - There was always a horde coming with or behind a Tank.
every time back 4 blood is shown, I'm like, "oh it's not that bad" and then i see the l4d or l4d2 comparison, and it's like... this looks miles better and it came out over a decade ago
@@randomguy-randomness The mandatory corruption cards are what ruined it for me. Like the card system was unique and I enjoyed it, but the corruption cards being a mandatory thing and not something you can switch on for extra difficulty like modifiers in L4D2 is upsetting and it turned me off of the game
> it's not that bad My man, B4B (graphics wise, at least) looks like it was developed by Digital Homicide, and that's just on its own, without direct comparisons to L4D.
The death animation portion really made me think. Left 4 Dead's weaponry really feels powerful, it feels like it actually does something to the zombies you are fighting and the death animations gives that grotesque and macabre vibe of the life slinking from the exhausted and dying infected you just shot. In Back 4 Blood, the weapons can simultaneously feel like they barely do anything to the infected while also throwing them like I hit them with a 20kg shotgun slug at point blank range. It doesn't feel right. A true L4D3 game would be MOUNDS better and I wouldn't mind waiting an entire 10 years for it to exist.
Wouldent it be funny if valve decided to make a L4D 3 And only using the original L4D2 engine and assets, and just updating the graphics. And having it turning out to be waaaay better than B4B? :)
@@horizont6883 A punch from 1911 would technically be stronger than from a rifle, due to it's bigger projectile (.45 ACP being 11.4mm vs M4's 5.56mm) and slower speed of said projectile, doesn't penetrate as well, so to speak.
To really drive home how good these death animations are, in L4D the amount of times you'll put extra bullets into a zombie to make sure its dead is astounding. You'll put like 15 extra bullets into a tank or charger cus you don't know if that thing is dead or not. In B4B they just fall and die. They even have a health bar so you know they're dead lmao.
i have closed captions on, it shows the death sounds for specials e.g . [Tank Death!] so i figure out when to stop shooting there lol. or I see the death animation which is almost always the tank suddenly kneeling and arms going windmill
@@edbo10 Look L4D is a pretty casual game unless you're playing Versus. Everyone knows what the tanks death animation looks like but If you're playing with friends and screaming at each other over comms you're really not gonna try to look for that.
It's actually incredible how well done, lifelike, and likeable Left 4 Dead's characters are done. Where everyone nowadays is just trying to make the next snarky marvel dialog ridden muppet that has to make a point about everything, dynamic and believable characters like these are such a breath of fresh air.
Amazing that left 4 dead 2 can run on almost any basic office computer made within the last 10 years. You don't need a "gaming PC" to run it well, and it has so much content between what valve made, and what the community made/makes. It is such a good value.
Back 4 Blood had Ray-Tracing, decades of physics engine, the best photorealistic game engines ever available, consoles that are just outstanding, and yet, Left 4 Dead 2 looks and feels more real than B4B ever wished it had
Kinda goes to show that fancy hardware is just a singular facet of a good game. Yes you can optimize the most out of your engines and consoles, but if the core game design is lacking, people will notice.
Just goes to show that it doesn't matter how much better the game engine is if you aren't willing to take full advantage of it in every way possible and go above and beyond, you're game will still be shit.
@@burningspeed it just needs love fr. But hey I’ll take a remaster of L4D2. I’ll pay a full 60$ if they promise to support it for ten+ years. Imagine L4D1 and 2 combined for 60$ remastered in 4K 60fps. Not remade I don’t trust them to remake it
@@saucyx4 I would probably sell my soul for that. Both L4D and L4D2 used to be my life ages ago, so to see them brought up to snuff with today's tech while still maintaining the charm and soul that both games contained would literally be a dream come true.
I wonder if Turtle Rock devs listened to the commentary on L4D, because it states so clearly the main pillars of the game. It’s the perfect guide to anyone who wants to recreate the magic of the original. It really feels like they didn’t.
i honestly had to fight so many eyerolls at b4b's characters, they all just seem like the same cookie-cutter "confident wise-cracking everyman" without expanding on that at all. also they literally dropped a "yep, that's me" i dont think i need to elaborate on that
The only character that got close to kinda interesting was the fat white dude. I have over 80 hours and still can't remember his name and I mained him, lol. Goes to prove the point of how terrible the writing was. They spread all the personality across to many characters.
I'm mentally exhausted from every single new character in everything being a sardonic, detached, and borderline sociopathic quip-master in every situation. It's just sickening at this point.
Not just video games either, mainstream movie characters are more braindead than ever *cough cough* Marvel *cough cough*. And the equally braindead audience of today eats it up. "10/10!!!!!! WOaH SooOi CoOL ACTiON AcTIOn ACtION!!!!!!!!!"
The conversations were funny for first time, but after an hour, it gets sickening. Listen to the left 4 dead survivors, their voice lines are not tiring to listen to due to the interactions between each other along with how they act around certain environmental events
It’s *been* that way for at least a decade at this point. EA reusing Madden, The Sims and it’s excessive amount of DLC, Full Price games with Loot Boxes and MTx, GTAV getting 3 PlayStations & XBoxes, the list goes on.
This sort of applies to Valve as well, but to be honest most of their stuff when released is freaking awesome. I didn't play HL:Alyx because I couldn't justify burning so much money on VR and computer upgrade which I won't use as much since am not into gaming a lot. But I do own every other Valve game, with exception of Artifact, they pulled that one. People keep calling them out on never being able to count to 3 and stuff, but I'd rather wait for them to release it when it's ready rather than shitting it out in unfinished state just to grab money.
@@MladenMijatov buy quest 2 for 300 dollars. lots of internal games, pc games compatibility, can work alone on its own. you will enjoy it trust me. if you dont mind making facebook account though
@@dcmcmother3531not really. A couple of people at turtle rock were involved with valve a long time ago and turtle rock used that as a marketing ploy but a majority of turtle rocks team had never been involved and those that eere involved with valve... Well... Their involvement with l4d2 was definitely misrepresented To be clear I am referring to the employees of turtle rock at the time of back4blood. Yes turtlerock was the studio that originally made l4d but there had been staffing changes.
5-7 people from left4dead Made b4b and people say "the creators of left 4 dead" the next Thing IS "the creators of evolve" i did Not know that but yes they cant make good Games because they dont have the Skill for that.
@@dcmcmother3531 Concepts are easy, concepts are cheap. Go to any pub around the world and have a few drinks with a mate, you'll have hundreds of free "concepts" right there already. Actually implementing them, however.... That takes skill, talent, time and dedication.
I feel like the better technology and more cookie cutter development of games in general seems to have killed a lot of the ingenuity that led to the flavour of these games. I'm not trying to say they aren't working hard, but it seems like maybe due to the size and scale of these games, the original vision for what the game should be gets clouded and lost somewhere in the development. It's why indie games seem to still give me that feeling old games did, whilst most AAA games tend to leave me thoroughly dissatisfied.
@@gaborvarga6567 I dont know about that. I havn't played Half-Life Alyx but I'm told its a master-piece. Also Gabe Newell is basically the Elon Musk of the gaming industry, a genious. Who's to say they currently arent working on the next master-piece, dare I say HL3:D
Is a little sad that we are starting to realize that the reason this incredible games from all this companies that we respected and held in high regards was because of the people behind them...it wasn't because the COMPANY did the game, it was because the GAME DESIGNERS, the ART DESIGNERS, SOUND DESIGNERS, MAP DESIGNERS, etc were the ones that made those games memorable, it wasn't because l4d2 was made by Valve that it was good...it was because the core team were extremely passionate about the game they did and the hard work they put into it
Turtlerock Studios' only selling point was literally just them cramming the "We're the creators of Left 4 Dead! We're the *REAL* creators! The original ones! Yeah! Us!" chant down our throats. And that's it. That's all they had going for them with this. If B4B doesn't get a workshop, then this game is gonna plummet faster and harder than my IQ
Modding often can fix a glitchy, generally shitty game anyhow, and make it stupidly prosperous. (*cough cough* literally any recent Bethesda release in the past 13 years). I seriously don't understand why B4B wouldnt want to allow their game to be modded...
One thing I love about Left For Dead is how you can add mods yourself to your own liking. From mods that makes everything hilarious to mods that adds "horror ambience" that just adds spice to the game. It's just so fun to experiment knowing you'll get what you want.
It's kinda funny to me how there are so many small things in L4D that we just sort of take for granted just because it "feels" natural. It's like that quote in Futurama: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
"the best part of a game are the things you dont notice"
Like a door not opening towards you
God, that has to be my favorite episode.
@@gilinar What episode was it?
@@DarrenHoussein I don't remember the exact name, but it's where Bender is shot through space through a missile and then meets God.
@@gilinar Okay thank you anyway
13:50 "We base the music on what the player is actually experiencing and not on what we want them to experience" is such a good game design quote, I love it.
Music design in games are so underappreciated, ambiance being the most important. SH2 would be nothing without the music and ambiance
its kind of fascinating how left 4 dead and minecraft went the exact opposite direction in terms of the triggers and choice of music cues, yet both are acclaimed for doing it incredibly well their own way
Back 4 Blood got me experiencin beeps and boops like mr krabs
@@itsCbomb B4B has no recognizable music, yet anyone who has played L4D recognizes the Witch theme immediately
@@ColdRampager doo du dodoo du du doo doooo...
I actually never realized how fluid the zombie animations and movements were in L4D before. Man, we were all really spoiled as kids.
Its fair, never noticed it either, but considering the few campaigns (i know, its about speed runs and shit) but the details bring at least that sorta fine cut
Same here. Genuinely made me realized how smooth, fun and natural L4D2 (and l4d1? haven't played it myself) feels.
B4B just feels so artificial and overpolished
@@dezgasting its just because b4b isnt running on source engine. Physics on that engine are out of this world
It actually looks much better than most other games today. I'm going to assume it's just too complicated a process to replicate. Otherwise I feel like more games really need this level of detail, because despite the outdated graphic engine, the zombie movement/animations look absolutely amazing even by today's standards.
talk for yourself, kid. I always liked the animations, shadows, storyline and characters (they felt so real when i was younger). So nope, not all of us were "spoiled". Sometimes i've just damaged lone zombies in a different parts with a diffetern weapon, because it was really unusual to see so many different reactions.
The one thing I absolutely love about this video is the fact you don't have to speak at all, the dev commentary is just there to show the dedication, you could watch this video muted and still get it.
This might be the most brutal critique of a game I've ever seen, and all done by letting the gameplay speak for itself.
Have you seen Crowbcat's cyberpunk video?
@@SrGreen02 I haven't! Only just discovered this video in fact.
New to Crowbcat aren't you. Honestly, I'm impressed with how he makes gaming documentaries by editing alone.
@@MildManneredBen Oh well you’re in for a ride :)
The gameplay has spoken!
The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was
Oooof
BRUH LMAO TRUE!!
I agree
Was? You mean *is*?
@@Goofygooberston you're right
Blows my mind that game companies have higher budgets than ever and every possible way to monetize a game, but they can't create the fundamentals of what makes great games
ikr
All that money is spent into making the graphics look great.
@@Pennycilin3 lol ok go watch a movie for that I’m here to PLAY
Its all about making the most Money with the least Budget/Effort possible
Thinking that made me quit learning how to be a Game developer, the industry is full of corporate BS
Because they aren't hiring the talent that used to make games great anymore. They're hiring quotas.
What we truly took for granted with L4D is that it can run on almost anything
True
They made the collisions and invisible walls more realistic.
You can actually jump a little on the barricaded rubble that block the map. That military truck / jeep at bottom kf stage 1 no mercy hospital apartments you can walk on it.
The fact that I can run left 4 dead at max settings on an office computer that my father gave me is insane
@@ZmaniacSuperRealOmgi can run it with reshades and dynamic lighting at 60+ fps on a shitty laptop, its actually wild
That's Valve magic, back when they used to make games.
My friend jailbreak his V2 Nintendo switch to run left 4 dead and it works with a little sound shuttering but it runs on solid 30 to 45 fps
Current Player Populations (Steam)
Back 4 Blood: 2,465
Left 4 Dead 2: 13,329
Looks like zombies aren't the only thing dead in Back 4 Blood.
For real?? 2,465 players? Lmao
2465 for one of the most waited 2021 games
what about the original l4d so its a tiny bit more fair
@@Redtortise-vf9xu since you can play L4D1 campaign in L4D2 i think most player will just play L4D2 because there are more contents, also L4D2 have steam workshop.
Don’t fall for the hype you guys always do this I hope you learned your lesson
This demonstrates how you can take so much detailing and polish for granted in the moment but you notice immediately when it's no longer present.
Details are what makes a good game great
Only Crowbat noticed.
@@yongyea4147 Nah as a Left 4 Dead fan it was blatantly obvious that special infected have missing cues, there's no music, and the AI director is just constantly spawning zombies around you without any valleys in the action, same thing with every single level being boring. I guess designing organically progressing linear environments is much harder than just funneling players through couple feet wide corridors. It's almost like you need actual talent to make a fun game, not just the "original creator's" idea. I deleted the beta of Back 4 Blood and never looked back. It's mindbending that 10 years later they made a WORSE, more generic zombie shooter
@@folx2733 " It's mindbending that 10 years later they made a WORSE," game i think this is the story of most games coming out now.
@@yongyea4147 No, the violence, characters, music, refined gameplay, and stellar visual effects are hardly thing you don't notice go missing. And all of that IS MISSING in Back 4 Blood.
Damn, I miss the days when psychologists were hired to suggest how the game could be more engaging and repayable rather than suggesting how to manipulate players into spending copious amounts of cash post entry
Sigh...
Im a psychology student and I would really like to know more about how old game developers used psychologists. Do you know where I can get more info?
@@nikolababic4783 theres a reason why we have google yknow
@@nikolababic4783 Maybe talks at gdc, a recent game that the devs worked with psychologists is hellblade senua's sacrifice, there is a 20min video on youtube. There are probably studies about that too I would guess.
@@user-nd1km9bc6jbro what you just said is like telling a dude at a library to go to the library when he asked where to find a specific book
That last scene of swapping the L4D name from the description and replacing it with "Evolve" is basically all that anyone needs to know :D
I don't really care about Back 4 Blood, but this made me realize just how much of a masterpiece Left 4 Dead is.
It's even more impressive when you find out that it was released over 13 years ago.
Couldn't agree more. Btw, didn't except to see you here Dante! Hope you're doing well man. Can't wait for your next vid lol.
Totally agree, this video made me want to play Left 4 Dead again
Really makes one wants to play L4D again..
I play left 4 dead almost every day. And now my Lil brother plays with me, so it's even more fun.
older games seem like the was made with love. now just rush straight to the money
The strength of this channel is that it doesn't even need commentary, the footage speaks for itself and the developer commentary is just the cherry on top.
Narrative editing skill 100/100
Absolutely, because people don't understand the difference between complaining and constructive criticism.
That's what makes it so stand-out and unique. While all the other channels are just a bunch of talking heads spouting their opinion, Crowbcat shows the world the truth with real footage. He does his homework and compiles it all in an educational and simultaneously funny presentation. I love this guy, I really do. He's the hero the gaming world needs today.
Video gaming has become so corrupted, soulless, and generally terrible that all you need to do is show people factual information or footage to prove it how awful it is. Same goes for the society we live in now.
Show, don't tell
That is how i feel Crowbcat operates and i have to admit, it takes legitimate skills to be able to deliver the needed brutal honesty and criticism without anything else other than the actions themselves.
My favorite thing about these videos is when it shows the empty, corporatized hype at game shows/reveals, and cuts right to janky, soulless gameplay. It's the same punchline everytime, but it never fails to entertain.
B-b-bro we have... Oh my god we have the same... 😳
@@kasket007vod4 brøther
Honestly the best part about these videos. Sure someone can sit down and have a huge rant/essay/review about why something is bad, but humans tend to be emotional, opinionated and biased.
This type of video "commentary "is just clips side by side. Let the game and the devs and marketings own words speak for themselves. Quite the sobering experience.
@@MrLachapell literally Disney
At this point, it doesn't entertain. It simply depresses.
L4D 1 and 2 could be the curriculum in a masterclass on game design. It's actually hard to believe how simple and elegant they were, looking at them from a modern perspective. AAA mutliplayer games with no costmetics, loot boxes, microtransactions, crafting, levelling or perk unlocking. No treadmills of any kind to artificially extend playtime - just extremely well-designed, fun-as-hell gameplay. Created by devs who carefully considered every aspect, right down to the tiny details.
I've always wished for a game to recapture a similar feeling to the many hours I spent playing them, and have never found one.
And to think that down the hood they are empowered half life 2 mods lol
I don't think crafting would have been inherently bad. and they still needed DLC. And they still changed the tone of the game from L4D1 to L4D2.
but they're so good to play still today
Remember kids, studios don't make games, talented people do.
This video made me appreciate L4D even more, and I did not think that was possible.
BioWare and Square taught me that lesson.
CDPR still #1 example
tbh it is the same talented people, i guess they didnt put much of their talent on this one tho
I'm going to make a backup of that first sentence. Couldn't have been said better.
12 years in, me and the bois still opting for L4D2 during game nights
The ending showing just how many of the people behind Left 4 Dead were from Valve, and how little went on to Turtle Rock is jaw dropping. Great work as always Crowbcat.
People in comments be screaming how Valve was only the publisher, or only a supporting muscle in creation of L4D, which is not ... very true
Sad that valve will never release l4d3
False advertising and idiot consumers is the only reason why the gaming industry hasn't crashed yet, along with anti-consumer practices like pre-order bonuses and microtransactions. The industry should have crashed over a decade ago.
Man took the words out of my mouth.
@@JagerFrostTroll sadly consoomers outnumber everyone else by a large amount and with more and more airheads getting into gaming every year that number will only grow. as long as people dont give enough of a shit about their own money to not quite literally let someone legally steal it from them it will never ever crash.
Putting HP bar on the boss is taking away the sheer horror of said boss.
We often put more bullets into tank's body to make sure it's dead
@@billieeisenhower406 his point still stands
@@billieeisenhower406 there wasn't, but still if you think about it he still has a point
@@billieeisenhower406 The tank is a boss...
@@billieeisenhower406 the tank was literally the boss in left 4 dead 1 and 2.... everything he said was correct.
@@billieeisenhower406
The Tank is literally the boss-tier enemy of the L4D franchise. Their spawns are completely unique compared to other special infected which all share the slots.
The reason why the Back 4 Blood devs refuse to make it open to mod makers, is because they're insecure that the modders will do a better job at making Back 4 Blood a better experience.
Meanwhile in Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, you can play as Obama, Altair, Kiryu, and 2B fighting a horde of Amogus with an M60 straight from nam, a balloon sword, chicken, a case of bud light, and anabolic steroids.
its to sell microtransactions.
Remember GTA:SA? Klaus killed the entire modding community to pave way for Grift Turd Absurd by Grove Street Game
I'm glad Nugget is still finding work after the bubble popped.
@@HowToChangeNamethe modding community is still active on their since the original pc port is so easy to find and download online
The ending was done so well. The last 5 seconds alone tell you all you need to know about this game.
The debunking of “the creators of Left4Dead” selling point was also huge. Back4blood really used that tagline as a crutch in their PR moves. Fooled people into trusting that the game was in good hands. People who are now questioning the drop in quality and not being able to pinpoint it.
I didn't even have to look at direct gameplay to realize it wasn't gonna be good. The trailers themselves were obvious, and awful. Just another studio shamelessly relying on a now very ancient success. I always hated that shit.
I was about to complain that that's illogical, NOTHING can explain everything in 5 seconds, not even Crowbcat.
Then I saw the ending and I completely changed my mind. Lol.
@@sanderzphillipsand solidify that Valve had a lot to do with L4D's success
This is why its dangerous to focus on studios and not the talent who made the games. Studios don't make games, artists do.
The character comparison part was heartbreaking. So much effort went into making the survivors of l4d and l4d2 into human beings and b4b can only produce the most generic smarmy marketable non people I've ever seen and heard in my life
They feel like NPCs from Sunset Overdrive
@@Xenunnaki except sunset did it on purpose
Agreed, b4b characters feel like corporate pandering. Nothing really memorable except the negative aspects. That one tuff girl that constantly spams "oh, so I'm to blame?" after friendly fire makes me want to team kill her immediately
It’s just so uninteresting and booring, no character or color to the characters at all.
The characters in B4B are like a Flanderized ripoff of Kickass or Suicide Squad. Just painfully cringy "fuck you we got this lol" bullshit.
L4D characters: People just trying to survive
B4B characters: "Yeah, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this situtation"
I can hear Baba O'Riley already
We need an official term for these types of characters. I swear, those mediocre Mary Sue types are everywhere in modern media.
@@DashingSteel We do, generic and contrived
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Cringeworthy tumblr level writing 😂
good lord the zoey face animation at 17:53 paired with the scream portrays such genuine terror its uncanny
Now I just want to play a bunch of Left 4 Dead 2 again.
Do it, you won't regret it
Still got a thriving community here :)
I just said that out loud to myself lol.
Post more halo montages
Right.
That ending credit scene has me in absolute shock jeez
His edits on that part is just perfect, sad to see but, it is what it is.
Yep
Do the same thing with credits for other companies' newer games that claim to be from the "save good old devs" trying to resurrect the "good old franchise" (Blizzard is a good example) to instantly die from a heart attack. This method of false advertisement is used really often by now corporate money sucking companies (Once again, like Blizzard).
I still don't understand why they fight over the developers.
Chronicling
I wish more games had the developer commentary that a lot of Valve games have. They provide a fantastic look into what the developers had in mind when they were making their games.
Same tbh
There’s a fantastic game called gunpoint that has this if you’d be interested in checking it out. It is dlc though.
How many developers have the kind of thoughtfulness and commitment to quality that Valve does?
@@cajunboy67 probably a lot, you just cant see it because they dont have development comentaries
Cry of fear also had those dev cpmmentary and mind you they were pretty good and not just slapped there because
It’s hilarious that in L4D2 the character Nick was intentionally given a narcissistic personality & even though he has this trait they still managed to make him a likeable character right from the start. Yet in B4B they tried so hard to make all of their characters so unrealistically badass they unintentionally made them all not only narcissistic but extremely unlikable right from the start. The one line about “We are here to take back our world” just summed B4B up, L4D wasn’t about a bunch of hero’s trying to save the world from a zombie apocalypse, it was about a bunch of survivors working together to stay alive in a zombie apocalypse.
Nick works because you can actually see him grew as a better and more mellowed guy as the game goes and he warming up to each of his friends, so he always got the time and room to make you grow to love him.
B4B characters are already made to be this badass and "cool" people so you never get time to see them grow, thus never give you time to like them and came off as coolish pretenders.
Unfortunately, this isn't just a problem for Turtle Rock. This is an example that very accurately demonstrates the shift in the industry as a whole.
Apparently unless you're Nintendo.
@@Stigmaphobia777 dunno, i can't wrap my mind around the idea of playing mario for 30 years.
@@Stigmaphobia777 Nintendo still thinks a kid in a basement making sprite mods for Mario Bros. will crash the video game industry.
@@Bacony_Cakes The point is they still give a shit about polish, don't chase graphical fidelity at the expense of everything else, and do their own thing-for better or worse. Not that I endorse everything the company does forever, or even play most of what they put out.
@@Stigmaphobia777 I'm just saying that Nintendo should be less murderous when it comes to fan content.
I only realized this just now but at 0:30, Francis tries to shove the hunter when he wakes up out of pure instinct. That's some attention to detail from the animator.
Lucky, you got hearted by a guy that barely even talks lol.
yeah you can definitely hear the shoving sound
An attention to detail that would make Valve proud, unlike with B4B.
deadstopping hunters has always been fucking awesome
insane detail
I never really noticed the zombie animations in L4D much. I kind of took it for granted. But focusing in on them, they are truly amazing and really add depth and emersion to the atmosphere and experience.
I also took it for granted, thinking it's generic staple quality animations, cuse I really didn't know any better, and the zombie craze was just getting started if not started at all back then,
I think that the fact you never noticed them until you looked is the best statement of their quality possible. The best implemented systems are the ones that are so seamless you don't notice them.
Crazy to think I lived through the "L4D2 Boycott".
Even if the game is simple on the surface, the amount of polish that you can't physically see (The Director, music cues, AI, animations, map design) explain why L4D2 has stood the test of time.
Heck, it's one of only a few games I have never uninstalled on my computer.
@heirofaniu exactly, well put. That is what they were going for.
They're so good that you don't even notice them.
You know its bad when half life 1, a game from 1998, has a better facial system than your game from 2021.
Is impressive than most of the games of the last years have worst AI than a game of 1998
You know that old quote that goes somewhat like : unfortunately "revolutionary" for games is just catching up to what valve was doing a decade ago
That quote is like a decade old on its own now lol
@@kR-qj7rw yeah, literally another games like Half life, 26 years old and that game had better standards that most of the newest games of this years, is like saying that a 2003 movie have better CGI than a 2023 movie, sadly that's also happens
i first played half life this year and i was surprised that AT THE START OF THE GAME i could already do more stuff than most new games today@@kR-qj7rw
The fact that even expertmode is actually fun instead of doing frustrating
Its crazy how good, the ragdoll animation/physics is. When they standing up, they support themselves with their arms. Valve did so many things so much ahead of its time.
There's still so much that other companies haven't done as well to date.
literally valve if they had the graphics capabilities of today they would be unstoppable
@yes I disagree. I don't think the differences between the two games are that severe. Left 4 Dead is fantastic, and is probably the better game overall, but Back 4 Blood has some advantages. Overall I think the issues this video outlines are mostly pretty minor
@@jcdentonunatco True, this video only showed that L4D had better animations, physics, gore, atmosphere, mechanic, AI, audio design, etc... People are just overreacting over these very minor issues and overlooked B4B's advantage that is the quirky diverse cast and RNG card gameplay.
@@c0rn322 yeah. only what you'd need in a zombie shooter. what people really care about are the graphics. and RNG.
@@c0rn322 BFB sucks, get over it nd try not to cope any harder
Changing the steam description to "creators of Evolve" is the hottest, sickest burn ever. I can't believe that I was tricked into thinking that Turtle Rock were the geniuses behind everything great about Left for Dead.
It explains so much about the game and how it works on so many levels.
weve seen great rebirths from original-studios-now-free in recent years though (planet coaster, tony hawks), so its not too far fetched to have thought b4b would be a great redoing of l4d
I mean, they were the geniuses behind left 4 dead.
Then valve hired everyone of those geniuses and left behind everyone else to pick up the scraps of the company lmao
@@DrCranberry Valve did more work than them lmao.
@@DrCranberry turtle rock might be “geniuses” that came up with l4d but valve was by far and away the ones running the show creative wise and business wise
Before, we played old games to feel nostalgia. Now, we play them because they are just better.
Superior, from a different timeline.
It's truly sad
Not to mention old games came as complete experiences, now you are sold scaffolding and the rest of it costs you triple the price of an old game. Whoever says "it's to support developers" it is not, I know no developer ever becoming wealthy out of microtransactions, only publishers do.
Exactly.
True last progression was when 360 and ps3 hit with hdmi after that it's been complete copy paste games. Retro arcade games and chain smoking is the best.
Damn I never really thought about how left 4 dead zombie behaviour and animations were so detailed. Gotta appreciate that.
I didn't even notice if they fought amongst eachother, I just shot them as soon as I saw 'em
Usually the small things you only notice and miss when they are gone 😢
Personally it’s so hard to tell when it gives off so much fun you end up spending so much hours on the game
Never thought but definitely felt.
And to think that this game runs smoothly on a potato computer such as mine is just another level.
"Cooperative first-person shooter from the creators of -Left 4 Dead- *Evolve*
Well done, Crowbcat. That ending was an amazing surprise and shows how much research you really put into it. I have an amazing appreciation for L4D and will play it again later.
Less videos, higher quality. Thats why we love him
Evolve was really fucking good. The only issue was the way it was monetized, which was a publisher decision.
@@MCXL1140 Evolve was absolutely not really fucking good. It was terrible
@@MCXL1140 Ehhhhhhh, there were some very real issues with the core gameplay loop as well. Maybe this wasnt true if you got good enough at the game, but for a lot of the playerbase, a lot of you time with the game was spent running in a big circle around the map trying to find the monster, clashing for a very brief encounter, and then repeating until one side managed to secure a win.
@@ForFutureUse in my experiences it was one of the best asymmetrical combat games ever.
really feels like a product of this current era. every character needs to be a hero with unique abilities, every game needs to have meta-progression and unlocks, like studios are afraid that their games aren't exciting enough on their own. sometimes less is more. doubly so if having 'more' means that the underlying systems end up being less solid
This
These characters definitely have no depth. They have personalities to an extent, but feel more like they are taken right out of a modern Marvel movie with their crap jokes instead of being believable survivors in an apocalypse.
One of the reasons I really liked the MCC hitting PC was that - for the most part - none of the early Halo games really overstayed their welcome. Kind of feels like a lot of the more modern stuff i've come across tries to lean hard into the "this is now your day job" angle, like a update on the glut of '00s GTA clones.
Lots of newer games feel like assets in a sandbox. Not type of tuning or unique blend of characters, npc, environment, and mechanics working in unison. It’s just has that jink feeling, that bad unfinished feeling. Sad
I only played the first few areas in back 4 blood but every time you go somewhere new it makes you go through a lengthy menu to pick out cards that effected the gameplay and different inventory items. My friends and I always spammed our way through it because we couldn’t care less about it and just wanted to play the damn game.
I always liked the various music cues that play during special attacks, but when he said at 13:50 that they based the music on "what the player is feeling," that makes it SO MUCH BETTER. The music that plays when you get ensnared by a Smoker or spotted by a Witch is EXACTLY the emotion you feel when that happens in-game. Mad respect to Valve and composer Mike Morasky.
Hearing Gabe talk about “making a game that our fans would be proud of because they built our business” feels like a fever dream.
Hearing passion and drive to make a good product is all to rare in the industry nowadays. Investors decide what gets put out and it’s going to be what makes the most $$$
Yeah and keep in mind the context of it also was that L4D2 was released very shortly after the first game, so there were many people asking if it was proper sequel or if it should have been a DLC for the original.
That's where the "companies exist to make money" mindset got us. Money above all else, and then you'll get blamed for expecting a decent product and buying it like a constant game of "quit hitting yourself".
@@MacenW I feel the same. Though the company's policies and relationships with their own series are debatable, it's hard not to trust them at least a bit, considering arguably everything they've put out is still regarded a wonder of game design decades later
i can only dream about a left 4 dead 3 with mod support. i hope it happens one day
Valve is privately owned. They don't have investors.
Even though the running joke is that valve can’t count to 3, they literally will not ship an unfinished game. They want every product to be a labor of love
What about artifact?
@@Oreoezi The money spoke for them once on that one. I doubt they'll ever let it speak again.
@@Oreoezi Artifact is an incredible card game, very well designed and highly complex. It was just out of touch with the market.
Man, their games last for a lot of years
I mean, look at Left 4 dead 2 and Team Fortress 2, a lot people play both of them today, they are almost inmortal, even without important updates (mostly in TF2)
Man, they deliver quality, yeah, they have their ups and downs, but they will give quality, fun, great ideas, and not, NOT EVEN ONE, unfinished product, no matter what other people think
Valve wants well earned money, no copy- paste a game to charge more money, demostrating it by releasing Left 4 dead 2 a year after the first one
Yes, im looking to you, Copy Paste Duty Vanguard
I used to think Rockstar got the same principle. Theeen....remaster controversies happen. Even if the remaster was good, they still put crackdown on the mod community.
I hope Crowbcat delivers that too on next video
Valve's Developer Commentary modes in their games really show how little other studios care for the stuff they make. Valve is already sharing their winning formula in detail and other devs still won't take the hint
Problem is a lot of other companies are public, so they have to appease to shareholders & deadlines before making a good game.
Valve on the other hand is private & Steam is the infinite money maker, and that's why their games can spend years in development hell and they won't bleed a penny.
@@industriastroll3177 But that wasn't the case with Half Life 1 for example. They were amateurs then, but already then they had a passion for video games and what makes them good. I suggest you watch the 25th anniversary documentary on Half Life by Valve. It was super interesting!
@@industriastroll3177Add Steam to the equation. They are practically not required to release any games to receive profits. In short, their store already does all the work.
@@TrentMac There's a difference here. Turtle Rock might've been the studio to create Back 4 Blood, but it lacks the very developers who have love and passion for their development projects. The way I see it, Turtle Rock is a cold husk compared to what it was when they were with Valve.
@@industriastroll3177p much
Share holders and higher ups
Games go from art to soul less business when that happens.
Its not about fun but how much $$$$ you can make
This discussion proves that a good looking game has nothing to do with how many thousands of polygons or lighting arrays. Graphics have a say, sure, but artstyle does too.
art direction over graphics every single time and if you think otherwise you are probably young or a casual dad gamer with kids in his late 30s
Never really noticed these nuances when playing L4D2 when I was younger. But I guess thats the point right? It added so much to the atmosphere and tone and you don’t really notice how much it matters til its not there anymore. First time seeing B4B all I could think was “Something’s off, something is missing” now i know
I always noticed those things inside valve motor. Thats why i have playef half life 2 campaign since im like 14 years old xd. That game feels diferent, is like a world inside a world. The vast mayority of other games feel more superficial in comparison. Even to this day. Another good example of that is dishonored, the game feels alive with that little details.
that is true when i played b4b the first few times it felt.....off, maybe its cuz i didnt notice the gore like l4d2 has or guns dont have the weight behind them like when ya fired a magnum in l4d2 you felt the power it has vs b4b weightless feel
@@bomnitoperro9422 Walking around in the real world these days is a bit like walking around City 17 in Half-Life 2 with the covidstapo shutting down businesses and oppressing the people.
i know right, its amazing how much you don't realize how all the little things just add on to make a game go from amazing to " this doesn't feel right"
Was thinking of this watching this. I didn't even notice the detail of zombie animations in L4D when I was younger until I watched this video but when you compare it to an experience without it, it's night and day. The contextual music is a huge one as well. Didn't neccessarily notice it when it isn't there but it definitely makes a huge difference sub conciously
L4D truly is a masterpiece that holds up incredibly well even now
Yoo Tetra!
YOOOOOO ITS THE (will think of funny and creative title later, too tired)
hi
Welp...
As a kid now teenager I never played left for dead because I only had a PlayStation, and playing it for the first time when I turned 18 and saved up for a computer really made me appreciate it more today.
remember, everyone: visual design is not the same thing as graphics. bad design decisions can make a modern game look WORSE than an older game, even if the texture quality and resolution are higher. animations and lighting are superbly important.
and don't forget sound design. if your guns sound dull and muted, why do you even have guns in your game?
I agree 100% about sound design. Gun sounds are so very often neglected in modern games. (Looking at you Doom Eternal.)
@@Skrenja Go listen to Resistance: Burning Skies sound design lol it’s even worse
Sound design is massively important. I love Left 4 Dead, but I still refuse the tier 1 submachine gun (even though I consider automatics better than shotguns) because it doesn't sound as weighty as any other weapon in the series.
"Graphics Are Temporary, but Art Direction is Eternal" - Bricky
A good visual design example would be Half-Life 2's face animations vs. Mass Effect Andromeda's face animations
15:18 For anyone who doesn't know this little fun fact, early playtesters would find it easier to ignore the breaker and run ahead than actually fight it due to how its attacks are programmed. They would just run past it and semi-speed run the levels since they're so short with barely any actual objectives. (Fun fact, the stuff like grabbing the supplies the level before the Diner finale was not part of the original design, that was added later on to pad it out)
The _ENTIRE_ reason that it spawns a swarm circle is to _force players to confront it before moving on._
The reason the game has so many mundane objectives like 'destroy the hive' or 'grab the supplies' or 'save the survivors' is to fill out the levels so they dont feel as short. (You could actually see this problem laid bare on levels where they don't have anything like this, and people made speed builds and got to the end of the level before most players were 1/5th of the way through.)
But hey, that's just, like, my opinion man, dont sue me
Imagine having worse physics and AI design than a game that was crafted in 2009. This game is the definition of "how dare you stand where he once stood"
*cough* Bf2042
Imagine still wondering about how games getting worse at this point. Welcome to the gaming industry 2021/22.
Downgrade.
Filled to the brim with bugs.
Overpriced.
Source its still the king!
Tony Stark built this in a cave! With a box of scraps!
Even Sekiro has dogshit stealth/AI and it was GoTY 2019. Patrolling enemies literally walk over their dead allies (that you just killed) without getting alerted. Half life had better ai 2 decades ago than modern GoTY titles
Those last seconds of the video gave me chills, i knew something was off with B4B after i stopped playing it cause it bored me unlike L4D that i've been playing for years.
Thanks for sharing.
who can forget Shrek Tank
forsenBB CHILLS
GEE WIZ
dude i legit got bored after playing 3 hours early access, i got a key from watching a streamer and legit got bored of the game in a single day, and i saw the price of the game when it released and i couldnt believe it.. because i literally spent less than 5 dollars on L4D2 4 years ago and yet i still enjoy it to this day
When Crowbcat comes out of hiding, it means that someone somewhere must have fucked something up.
The Vidja Vigilante puts on the suit once again.
He is taking his sweet time making a video for GTA Trilogy "Definitive" edition.
Still waiting on rust “CoNsOlE eDiTiOn” or GTA trilogy
“Back 4 Blood”
@@youtindia I'm patiently waiting for his Halo Infinite one.
Just one of the things I loved about Left 4 Dead. You can feel the stopping power slowing the infected to a halt when you shoot them. It's also baffling how much life (or lack thereof) was put into the Left 4 Dead Infected; How much blood covers their clothing, how emotional the infected faces are, in their body language, hell, even down to the hordes' mosh pit style behavior...
I never realized how incredibly polished Left4Dead was until seeing this. Had not seen the commentary before now either. But this shows only a tiny piece of how difficult this all is. I hope Turtle Rock can be more successful with their goals in the future.
The commentary in _all_ of their old games is amazing, and a genius way to interact with it. 2000's-Valve were the pinnacle of linear storytelling, both on an in-game and meta level. They'd mastered "show, don't tell"... but when they decide to tell, hoo boy do they tell.
Turtle Rock will never be successful, look at Evolve.
@@ADRENELINEDUDE yeah honestly turtle rock should just give it up at this point. Evolve could have been great but they turned it into shit
Now we know why Valve time is what it is. and Yeah you don't notice polish because i feels and looks natural, like its supposed to be there. You know it by its absense
Turtle Rock will not EVER be successful now that they're owned by commies
Damn the stark differences in quality... back to L4D2 we go!
Back4L4d2😳
finally.... I'm really glad people are done wasting their time with new games like b4b. I play l4d2 often and the only other ppl are latinos and asians, I love that they play but they often don't speak english like me so its hard to communicate.
I'ma be real with you. The quality is in L4D1, not L4D2. A lot of stuff is janky or got gutted in L4D2 even with the maps transitioned over.
@@3yebex like what exactly?
Someone play l4d2 on xbox with me no 1 ik got it
man, makes you appreciate how lucky we were back then that all these things were considered. Now high poly models and better textures have seemingly replaced all the other immersion work that used to take place :(
+1
+1 indeed. This is an underrated take that most glance over.
"but Duh Grafpics!?!"
dedication to artstyle and gameplay > graphics
hence why tetris and minecraft can outsell this lump of garbage.
The entire Graphical arms race was a mistake.
@@derekbarbosa even then, the graphics in left 4 dead are very solid for their time
comparing the colorless and almost grey filter of gta 4 and far cry 2 to the diverse left 4 dead and its sequel shows a noticeable difference
I assume that with all of the hardware shortages that Devs will have to go back to working on optimization for games, which may lead them to learning how to work with limitations again. hopefully...
I feel like the L4D characters are people trying to actually survive and making light of the situation at times by crackimg up jokes.
While the B4B characters are playing a virtual zombie game.
Man this shows just how important attention to detail is in games. When I first played Back 4 blood it immediately felt off and just unpolished. In L4D the elite zombies were the showcase and main event. In B4B the elites were the most annoying part
I also felt like the B4B elites had no character, they all look the same (I think that's a colour/artstyle thing) and they pretty much sound the same. In L4D when there was a Smoker you would see it, hear it, the music, your friends screaming. Same for all the other elites.
yeah i could tell within about 30 seconds of just watching, the game wasn't as fun to play.
Yeah even with the tank, the second you hear that music you know shit is about to go down and with b4b it just dont feel the same.
@@KerupukKeju Its because there's different classes of the same infected. From more than ten feet away, they all look the same (within their respective 'breed' or whatever)
Their weekspots are in different places, with the tallboy having his arm severable, and the crusher style has a normal head weakspot.
The bloat characters I really don't like. They're extremely similar and have center mass weakspots. One explodes and draws a horde, the other explodes and doesn't. They both have the same slime effect. The swarm causing one can puke, the one that just explodes causes knockback.
I'm currently having fun with this game. They went more vermintide than left 4 dead with this one, with the perk system allowing for min/max builds and higher difficulty. Having a build around hipfiring LMGs while crouching was fun. Hipfire sprinting shotgun was fun. Meta builds aren't. I've had fun with this game, but deeprock galactic just came out for playstation for free, so I'll probably dump 400 hours into that before I put 70 into b4b.
For me, blood hangs on future content. If they really are "the creators of left 4 dead" they'll put out whole campaigns for free like they did for l4d2. We'll see.
Blackwood Security you sound like a creator for the game
Its amazing how the technology as a whole has improved yet games keep devolving more into these hollow, uninspired cash grabs
Absolutely. Nowadays the only developers I really trust are indie ones and one or two reliable big houses. Other than that when a new big game comes out I wait at least a year for reviews and potential sales even if I'm really interested (which is not often though realistically)
When game engines and such are becoming more accessible and easier to use - the talent, effort and knowledge to create something actually great decline. Devs have become lazy. Too many recent games with lack of effort and thought into the overall design. Only a few studios are still passionate to uphold their reputation for the highest standards like Rockstar, Valve and Naughty Dog.
@@ruok3351 remove Naughty Dog and replace it with Capcom
@@chinesemassproduction Disagree. Story is subjective. But Last of Us 2 gameplay design and animations is like no other, down to the smallest details.
@@ruok3351 Rockstar used to be amazing, but now with how much they keep milking GTA online and not focusing on making a new game, I think its safe to say that they have fell into making cash grabs. Imagine how great it would be if we had a new gta with all the modern technology, but for the past 7 years its been the same game, with dlcs that are used to boost shark card sales, and then they just have shitty remasters of their old games that carried their company. Imagine a new GTA game with all the detail that GTA IV and V had.
Everyone talking about how ahead of it's time Left 4 Dead was but, the way I see it, more and more games are just behind the times.
Not many try and innovate anymore. Instead they just hype up consumers with false promises. It's sad really.
Yeah Left 4 Dead isn't a technical marvel or anything (the source engine itself was pretty ahead of the times though) it's simply a good game that is the result of developers that care about their product and spend all their time and effort focusing on what makes the best experience.
Nowadays developers are only thinking about how their game can be Fortnite 2 so they can extract as much money as possible from the wallets of their playerbase. Doesnt matter if they have fun, only matters if they continue to give you money for battle passes and ridiculous, immersion breaking cosmetics.
I think you mean all games by Triple A companies. Some indie games are still great and innovative. Although the Triple A side is just Hyping up, Selling unfinished games and nothing else.
@@kgkomrin Absolutely, Ive actually been playing better and better games recently because I keep finding Indie Gems lately now that Ive leaned away from big titles. It's really great to see the medium in this new light!
I mean, even for it's time, Left 4 Dead was really good. It's just that we didn't know how good we had it. With developers who had passion and ideas to make good video games. Nowadays, it's more about making the most money for the least amount of effort.
the character writing part is what made me realize how much i hate this "Millenial Writing". like lady; there's a zombie apocalypse, your loved ones are already dead or something worse happened to them, your life will never be the same "I'M a CoLLeGe GirL wiTH a BasEbALL bAt".
left 4 dead games also had humor in them but it never felt misplaced, the bickering between characters felt real and allowed players to understand them better. while B4B characters just make lifeless jokes and drop meaningless F-bombs
Exactly. That's why I love characters like Nick. While he seems very spiteful, almost like he hates the rest of the group. Throughout the campaigns they grow on him as he also feels concerned for them (especially if you hear the dialogue when he heels teammates)
Can we *not* make "Millennial Writing" a thing? Like, sure it's not good writing in this case, but the term is such a nothing burger.
@@ZelphTheWebmancercringe millennial spotted
@@painfullyhuman Weak reply. I'm not millennial, I was born in '97, but even if I was my point still stands.
@@ZelphTheWebmancerTell that to those "quirky" writers then. Or, better yet, tell them to quit their jobs since writing isn't something they're good at.
The amount of buildup that went into that final sequence with the credits and highlighting the "devs from L4D that actually worked on B4B" was simply genius.
You could count the original devs on one hand. So damned disappointing. We deserve a L4D3 and this bs is what we got. L4D is how I got my wife into video games. It's her all-time favorite game and she's played dozens of other games since L4D2. Btw She HATES B4B.
You can really tell that they're sweating everytime they or someone mentions that they created left 4 dead.
TurtleRock made the idea, Valve made the 𝘌𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦.
Not really its more they used the source engine which is a really good engine for its time. It just goes to show thay game studios when using or creating an engine need to get it right because it controls the entire feel of your game.
@@chrisscott3071 they had 4 people involved with minor aspects of left 4 dead
@dirk diggler yes but the things they showcase like the superior rag doll, facial expresions, lighting, great ai even to an extent with light modifications dismemberment. All of these are whay made the source enginge great. Im honestly worried for games if every major release is just tied to unreal or unity. They are honestly fairly sloppy game engines. Although they might have turned it around with unreal 5. Wont know till we see more games using it.
@@chrisscott3071No, literally, an overwhelming majority of the creators of Left 4 Dead were Valve employees, with the idea of the game coming from Turtle Rock.
Turtle Rock came up with the first conception, the idea. Valve gave it love, sweat, tears, and wanted to make an amazing game.
As far as I know it was turtle rock which made the game. The thing is that the majority of turtlerock has left turtlerock to work for valve. They enjoyed working with valve more than only for turtlerock
The fact they literally said that they won't allow mods for B4B and never will in the future is enough to convince me that the game is gonna go straight to the trash bin.
I mean, I was convinced when the actively nerfed the speed perks in order to force the speedrunners to play the game in only the way they intended.
@@AbeDorf18 just force crossplay off if any mods are installed?
@@AbeDorf18 not that I can think of off the top of my head, just thought it was an obvious solution.
@@AbeDorf18 Microsoft does it fine with mcc actually, seperate launch option in steam for mod support.
23:22 even the reporter couldn't help laughing when they said B4B will have no modding support
This video right here NEEDS to be required viewing for all kinds of game development schooling. This is an absolute must watch.
21:42
Damn, Remember when Devs and Publishers were actually scared on making sequels because gamers are very cautious and strongly against bleeding a franchise dry for money. So they actively had to try to make their sequels good ?
_(looks at Ubisoft, EA, and Activision)_
Yeah... The good old days...
@@different_stuff all I just want for valve is to release the episode 3 of half life 2
Nowadays, who needs sequels when you can bleed a franchise dry for money with only a single title with microtransactions? lol.
@@different_stuff bruh they probably only made "Half-life: Alyx" to avoid making or releasing episode 3 probably
@@different_stuff bruh idk what you are saying
@@different_stuff This account is stolen I just hacked it some random cringe kid and the steam account on this account is literally rich which is it has proximately 300+ paid games
And I know they already avoided making 3 because "Gaben can't count" but they also need to release a new game to hype those people who is been waiting for a new half life game
It is incredible to me that Gabe was discussing proving to players that L4D2 was a worthy continuation of the franchise to warrant the price tag. Meanwhile most games nowadays release half baked and are as disappointing as ever. Especially considering that L4D2 is one of the greatest games of my lifetime, it is mind boggling to think what we took for granted during this time period in regards to what games we had at our disposal. Imagine all of the disappointing releases of the past 5 years, and then place that thought in your mind next to the fact that people were genuinely opposed to the creation of L4D2 once upon a time. Fascinating stuff.
Exactly what I was thinking as I saw that part. It's so tiresome these days
I read it somewhere, it's actually the reason why Valve never announced l4d3, hl3 / hl2ep3, portal3, and any other third related title.
GabeN wants it to be perfect and don't want to let down the fans. it's better to have no deadline and keep silent on the new game until they really think it's a perfect game.
Well, at least that what I read. New Source Engine need to be finished first tho.
For a little context on the backlash L4D2 received, Valve initially told players that L4D1 was going to receive continual updates and DLC, so it was a little weird that after receiving no updates, a second game was announced.
At the time of announcement, a lot of people saw it as like, developing a bunch of new maps and weapons for TF2 and releasing it seperately as TF3
There have been some amazing games made in the current era though. God of War, RDR2, GTAV (on release), the Spider-Man games, and so on. I agree it’s on a downtrend. But it’s a individual studios problem more so than gaming as a whole.
You gotta keep in mind that L4D2 came out only a year after L4D, so the criticism of a sequel so soon was understandable because Valve doesn’t do that. People were concerned Valve was going to do annual low effort sequels.
This proves to me that we were wrong back in the day to see awesome games like L4D and think "Damn with future tech, games will be even more amazing".
It shows that talent will always be more impactful than technology. Always.
B4B really shows this too
You can have the technology, but without the talent to use it its just wasted
Yea it's a common thought that the more powerful game development environments are getting, the better the game is.
But if you know how game development works, you know it's not the case.
Alot of it can come down to what to focus on.
Hardwork and love too
Talent, experience, dedication and pride in their work. The people at Valve _wanted_ to make a great game, and had the understanding of what it takes to do that, and the dedication to do it. It also helps to have all the Valve resources and backing.
There are just so many things about L4D that make it great. And I think a lot of those things are not known or understood by other developers. I watch the developer commentary and can't help wondering if the developers of B4B did.
"It shows that talent will always be more impactful than technology. Always."
This honestly. I've seen tons of people harp about Unreal 5 going: "Games will look super amazing and like life now" "Console will surpass PC with this" and so and so forth, but it is always the person that works with the engine that has to be capable to get everything out of it.
gave B4B a hell of a try, for almost a full year its pretty much all I played... but you know what happened. I Started playing L4D2 again and havent stopped... There is no comparison when it comes to Replay L4D2 is a Juggernaut even after 10+ years.
I also gave b4b a 4th try yesterday, but I got bored of it, and rather frustrated from it, because stuff like trauma and the continue system limit creativity and fun with the game.
I've been trying and it's o.k. but I'm unable to get past a part in the abomination fight without someone else because the bots don't shoot at the objective only at infected. Still absolute garbage compared to L4D and there's way too much extra junk with all the supply lines and cards.
it started getting to the point where there were no players and I was waiting forever for a game to start. @@jayh5840
Generally when the marketing goes "from the creators of [older but amazing IP]" what they generally mean is that they just have one or two people from the original team.
That's how I kind of felt when they kept selling Outer Worlds as "From the creators of Fallout: NV". Granted, Outer Worlds turned out rather well and stands as a good game on its own. But you can't call it another New Vegas by any stretch.
@@commanderzander580 Damn not even close. FNV was all sorts of incredible, OW is just ok.
It had the 2 of the 6 Turtle Rock employees who made L4D.
@@commanderzander580 Well, now we got Bethesda and the creators of Fallout: NV in one place... **insert wild imagination here**
@@commanderzander580 outer worlds was made by the creators of the fallout universe in general, not 1 or 2 devs but the ones that came up with every concept and were behind fo1, fo2 and NV
I think the big difference between the 2 games is that L4D *FEELS* like a zombie infection takeover while B4B feels like a lifeless COD mod
Haha I can see that
Unreal engine sux
There are literal mods made for half life 1, a decade or more before B4B, that had more life and energy than B4B.
L4D has that certain vibe to it which many other valve games at that time had which was completely lost in B4B
@@m.n.s.s2825 It does not at all, the developers suck.
A largely underappreciated aspect of L4D zombie's animation is how they continue running and walking towards you even after they technically die from a gameplay perspective. Not only this looks a lot more natural and fluid, it really adds up to the whole horror experience, forcing you to be on alert even when the danger had passed and spent far more bullets than you have to sometimes.
It kinda reminds me of the old Resident Evil death animations
That was probably one of the most frustrating and irritating mechanics of Left4Dead for me. Knowing now that it was intentional and why they did it, I can appreciate the artistry at least... but man does it make the game so much more infuriating to actually play. And it cheats you out of the satisfaction of kills too, because instead of feeling like you killed the zombie yourself or giving you a satisfying ragdoll, they all die from "bleeding out" instead.
So true. The normal game idea of instant ragdolling removes the connection period from life to death. It's just an on and off switch. To add the stagger here where you can't even be sure where along the way the zombie actually died is so important. It adds SO much realism in such a split second of information
@@cynthius6567 It's because the game feels like it cares about immersion above all else. In real life you would not be able to tell when the zombie is truly out of commission. It adds a skill cap too where you can stop shooting earlier by sort of memorizing when the zombie is actually dead, and thus you can save more bullets with more experience. Back4Blood is about arcadey zombie shooting. Left4Dead is about immersion in a post apocalypse
@@Zarzar22 As the devs said - it was made to feel as if you were playing through a good horror movie.
I remember my first time through the airport getting outside and the plane crashed. Louis, Bill, Francis and Zoey, in unison, yelled "HOLY SHIT!"
I have never been able to replicate that experience. They have never done it again. It was and is magical the way this game is designed to feel so infinitely replayable.
Closest is in l4d2 when you do the concert finale in dark carnival imo
@@newturtle3don't forget you can walk coach to the mic and make him sang some bits
Man that last part with the people who went from L4D to B4B was brutal, and it is a testament to Valve's abilities how replayable their games are even if they stop making content for those games
It was the modding community that gave L4D a huge following and an endless experience of gameplay. Sure the core game is super fun especially with friends but once u finished the main story or maps it can get repetitive. Thats the biggest difference between B4B and L4D.
@@nico5179 you say that but you should realize that the reason why the modding community is still as robust as it is is because Valve set up their games to be receptive for modding. It's still a point that goes to Valve regardless since unlike other companies, they never forgot their roots and how modders were the foundation behind their success. This only gets emphasized even further when you get companies like Bethesda that started shunning the very people who make their games playable at the advent of FO76.
@@nico5179 nah, i dont play with mods so its just valve for me carrying hard with the immersion
@Jackoftrades I'm not gonna totally condemn turtle rock because Valve does have a track record of not communicating with third party developers they work with, it's not just turtle rock that went through this, it's also what caused the rift between Valve and Gearbox.
That said what I take issue is them claiming they MADE l4d, which crowb disproved.
It does amuse me to find out that the creator of Portal also had a hand in L4D.
When it talked about how they hired numerous stuntmans for the common infected death animation, I just realized how detailed their movements were and how it added so much to the experience and gameplay.
Even if you don't consciously notice it, it always felt incredibly satisfying to gun down a horde and I'm sure the movement variation played into it
@@domskillet5744 This is probably one of the most annoying things about creating anything in general. If you do it right it "feels natural" and goes unnoticed.
if you do it wrong everyone will notice and criticize it.
you didn't notice it, but your brain did
Crazy how Valve said "we wanted to take an extremely successful game and make it even better, not just make money off a successful title." Exactly what's wrong with entertainment nowadays
Exactly what Turtle Rock did
i suppose they still carry that ideology since they haven't released sequels for a long time.
@@scottjefferson4048 its hard to improve on near perfection. Look what EA did to starwars battlefront. Made it look better at the expense of all fun
@@scottjefferson4048 There's also the fact that sequels aren't particularly needed for their flagship series, outside of the obvious half life. Portal and L4D have "finished" storylines, and TF2 doesn't need a sequel.
@@jonsanta8452 yeah, the only one that is left unfinished is half life.
What I like about this channel is that he isn’t a total negative guy. He loves the show how brilliant and well-designed these games games used to be
Not only does this showcase how unpolished Back 4 Blood is, but also just how much time, care, and effort Valve puts into things. As impressive as Left 4 Dead is, this just brings to light how far ahead Valve was against the rest of the industry, even a decade later. This video gave me a new appreciation for this game. Thanks, Crowbcat.
Amen
It's a shame that Valve doesn't make games anymore, just VR masterpieces that only people with money can play. Hope the teaser from the end Half-Life: Alyx comes true.
I played back4blood back in the beta and I knew b4b doesn't have the l4d vibe but I kinda knew that since they didn't have valve to back it up
It's just about graphics and physics. If this was about content, it'd be vastly different while also stating how L4D2 was carried by community content instead.
@@Pandize Well even content is same or better than B4B. It even proofed itself with already 2 big, free updates that added new maps (Cold Stream and the Last Stand recently) with some game and bug improvements. B4B already advertised PAYED DLCs from the get go before it has been even released...
So L4D has the superior graphics, physics, content, mods and even the bigger playerbase, while still running on a lower end system compared to B4B.
The game felt so empty and unbalanced in the beta and most people from my friends list who bought it dropped it.
The facial expressions part is also evident in Valve's other product of the same era TF2. You literally can see how much they cared for emotions and expressions of their characters.
the same can be said for half life 2 and that game came out in 2004, left 4 dead definitely has valves quality touch all over it.
@@drakevevo3710 Indeed
The funny thing is that the characters having facial expressions almost seems pointless, since you never notice it in the heat of battle. You can almost "get" why the B4B devs didn't put time/resources into it. Ha, but booooy, once you see what it looks like without it, you definitely start to notice it.
Honestly, Valve should be happy Turtle Rock made this game - you never quite notice how polished and detailed something is until you see it without those things!
@@arandompasserby7940 Detailed facial expressions is something you don't notice when done well, but when done badly or not there, it is very apparent
To the ACTUAL creators of Left 4 Dead, Thank you I still love this game today, thanks for the awesome memories over the years
I remember being 5 playing Left For Dead and not noticing how good it was.
Last updates were rough on the game, though...
@@ruffusgoodman4137 It wasn't, it's just a bunch of pearl-clutching hollow whining.
@@Quyzbuk86 You really don't play the game, huh?
TH-cam poser fans be like
@@ruffusgoodman4137 And there's said pearl clutching, gotta love forced, fake outrage. Oh boo hoo, you can't use taunt or laugh in official versus games now. My heart bleeds for you.
15:52: also because the Tank was a threat in other ways, aside from just being a bullet sponge:
- He could easily outrun you or your teammates (even on open spaces).
- He followed you _everywhere you went, and nothing stopped him._
- One punch sent you flying, leaving you stunned and more vulnerable.
- _Extremely powerful_ ranged attacks that could end the match in seconds.
- Made throwing Molotovs or gas cans a gamble.
- There was always a horde coming with or behind a Tank.
That's actually untrue. The game director stops sending hordes and special infected during tanks. This is actually abused sometimes on high level play
every time back 4 blood is shown, I'm like, "oh it's not that bad"
and then i see the l4d or l4d2 comparison, and it's like... this looks miles better and it came out over a decade ago
If only back 4 blood wasn't trying to be l4d 3 spiritually but just be it's own game....but even then the cards system was janky for me
@@randomguy-randomness The mandatory corruption cards are what ruined it for me. Like the card system was unique and I enjoyed it, but the corruption cards being a mandatory thing and not something you can switch on for extra difficulty like modifiers in L4D2 is upsetting and it turned me off of the game
Wow it's almost like that's the entire point of the video
@@brianbadonde9251 and
> it's not that bad
My man, B4B (graphics wise, at least) looks like it was developed by Digital Homicide, and that's just on its own, without direct comparisons to L4D.
The death animation portion really made me think.
Left 4 Dead's weaponry really feels powerful, it feels like it actually does something to the zombies you are fighting and the death animations gives that grotesque and macabre vibe of the life slinking from the exhausted and dying infected you just shot.
In Back 4 Blood, the weapons can simultaneously feel like they barely do anything to the infected while also throwing them like I hit them with a 20kg shotgun slug at point blank range. It doesn't feel right. A true L4D3 game would be MOUNDS better and I wouldn't mind waiting an entire 10 years for it to exist.
The real tragedy is we’ve already waited MORE than ten years...and yet, I’ll keep waiting, just for the chance at something that great to exist
really makes you wonder how a 1911 can send a zombie flying back a few meters but all the m4 does is just stop the zombie's movement
Wouldent it be funny if valve decided to make a L4D 3 And only using the original L4D2 engine and assets, and just updating the graphics. And having it turning out to be waaaay better than B4B? :)
At this point LFD3 is just a realistic as HL3 and no that VR only game does not count. Valve just doesn't give a crap anymore.
@@horizont6883 A punch from 1911 would technically be stronger than from a rifle, due to it's bigger projectile (.45 ACP being 11.4mm vs M4's 5.56mm) and slower speed of said projectile, doesn't penetrate as well, so to speak.
To really drive home how good these death animations are, in L4D the amount of times you'll put extra bullets into a zombie to make sure its dead is astounding. You'll put like 15 extra bullets into a tank or charger cus you don't know if that thing is dead or not. In B4B they just fall and die. They even have a health bar so you know they're dead lmao.
Exactly. Until I saw this video, I never realized that common infected didn't need to be hosed with bullets as thoroughly as I'd normally do it.
i have closed captions on, it shows the death sounds for specials e.g . [Tank Death!] so i figure out when to stop shooting there lol. or I see the death animation which is almost always the tank suddenly kneeling and arms going windmill
@@edbo10 Look L4D is a pretty casual game unless you're playing Versus. Everyone knows what the tanks death animation looks like but If you're playing with friends and screaming at each other over comms you're really not gonna try to look for that.
@@MsDestroyer900 i know, i'm just saying there are other ways of knowing when it dies and after playing a few games you can quickly pick up on things
a side effect of this is that it rewards players for keeping an ear out for zombie death sounds, adding to the immersion
It's actually incredible how well done, lifelike, and likeable Left 4 Dead's characters are done. Where everyone nowadays is just trying to make the next snarky marvel dialog ridden muppet that has to make a point about everything, dynamic and believable characters like these are such a breath of fresh air.
Amazing that left 4 dead 2 can run on almost any basic office computer made within the last 10 years. You don't need a "gaming PC" to run it well, and it has so much content between what valve made, and what the community made/makes. It is such a good value.
And it only cost 10$😎
@@warmommy5996 that's if you don't wait for a sale.
@@warmommy5996 it gets down to $1-1.99 pretty regularly.
currently playing it on a work laptop and its running smoothly
@Bandit 26 yep, it's very easy to run
Back 4 Blood had Ray-Tracing, decades of physics engine, the best photorealistic game engines ever available, consoles that are just outstanding, and yet, Left 4 Dead 2 looks and feels more real than B4B ever wished it had
Kinda goes to show that fancy hardware is just a singular facet of a good game. Yes you can optimize the most out of your engines and consoles, but if the core game design is lacking, people will notice.
Just goes to show that it doesn't matter how much better the game engine is if you aren't willing to take full advantage of it in every way possible and go above and beyond, you're game will still be shit.
@@burningspeed it just needs love fr. But hey I’ll take a remaster of L4D2. I’ll pay a full 60$ if they promise to support it for ten+ years. Imagine L4D1 and 2 combined for 60$ remastered in 4K 60fps. Not remade I don’t trust them to remake it
left for dead looks and feels alive. it feels like you're actually in that world. b4b looks like generic zombie shooter
@@saucyx4 I would probably sell my soul for that. Both L4D and L4D2 used to be my life ages ago, so to see them brought up to snuff with today's tech while still maintaining the charm and soul that both games contained would literally be a dream come true.
This actually makes me so sad man. Can't believe we got to the point where 10 year old games have more features than new ones.
Yeah its all about cash grabs mostly now devs don't really care what they put out apart from a few rare ones
It makes me mad actually. The gaming industry has been corrupted from the inside out.
It was already like this when GTA V came out. Crowbcat even did a comparison between IV and V where IV had more detail and thought in it than V
@@ニーア0 look at Halo infinite, it's lazy.
@Diru Dozur I mean, if you think inclusion is the problem, your probably are racist.
We weren't "spoiled" as kids. We were treated with respect. As were the IPs made for us to enjoy.
I wonder if Turtle Rock devs listened to the commentary on L4D, because it states so clearly the main pillars of the game. It’s the perfect guide to anyone who wants to recreate the magic of the original. It really feels like they didn’t.
Guaranteed they had a lot of input from Tencent on how to make the game more widely appealing.
@@varg1231 Yeah the studio is owned by Tencent. That explains why the game sucks and is a cash grab.
@@robbytherob Hard to grab cash when nobody's buying. Game is on sale already.
@@vozanderson8665 plus no one plays online anymore lol
Lol they didn't need to listen to dev commentary since "they" created L4D lmao
i honestly had to fight so many eyerolls at b4b's characters, they all just seem like the same cookie-cutter "confident wise-cracking everyman" without expanding on that at all.
also they literally dropped a "yep, that's me" i dont think i need to elaborate on that
The only character that got close to kinda interesting was the fat white dude. I have over 80 hours and still can't remember his name and I mained him, lol. Goes to prove the point of how terrible the writing was.
They spread all the personality across to many characters.
so true kara hitsujigoods
*Tim Allen Grunt* Yeeaup, that's me! B4b is so unlikeable its insane lol
everything has to be Marvel now. it's depressing
everyone in b4b is a wisecracking marvel jokester
I'm mentally exhausted from every single new character in everything being a sardonic, detached, and borderline sociopathic quip-master in every situation. It's just sickening at this point.
Not just video games either, mainstream movie characters are more braindead than ever *cough cough* Marvel *cough cough*.
And the equally braindead audience of today eats it up. "10/10!!!!!! WOaH SooOi CoOL ACTiON AcTIOn ACtION!!!!!!!!!"
The conversations were funny for first time, but after an hour, it gets sickening. Listen to the left 4 dead survivors, their voice lines are not tiring to listen to due to the interactions between each other along with how they act around certain environmental events
@@catboat863 basically the world is out of new shit
@@yamabushi170 they just aren't trying. It's all about money, not passion for the subject
I see you played Apex Legends
by not allowing the Moding of B4B they essentially killed it from day one.
They really shot themselves in the foot, with b4b. It's a damn shame
@@imsentinelprime9279 Turtle Rock is China like Epic now sadly
@@imsentinelprime9279 which is ironic, considering you could mod B4B in L4D and make it better.
It was made with unreal engine. That shitty unoptimized engine was always known for not friendly to mods.
No wonder it wasn't mod-compatible.
I think the statement "We used to make games, now we make money" is becoming true for a lot of AAA studios out there.
It’s *been* that way for at least a decade at this point. EA reusing Madden, The Sims and it’s excessive amount of DLC, Full Price games with Loot Boxes and MTx, GTAV getting 3 PlayStations & XBoxes, the list goes on.
This sort of applies to Valve as well, but to be honest most of their stuff when released is freaking awesome. I didn't play HL:Alyx because I couldn't justify burning so much money on VR and computer upgrade which I won't use as much since am not into gaming a lot. But I do own every other Valve game, with exception of Artifact, they pulled that one. People keep calling them out on never being able to count to 3 and stuff, but I'd rather wait for them to release it when it's ready rather than shitting it out in unfinished state just to grab money.
@@Bruh-ok1rq its a shame they are probally never going to make a game like deus ex hr
@@MladenMijatov buy quest 2 for 300 dollars. lots of internal games, pc games compatibility, can work alone on its own. you will enjoy it trust me. if you dont mind making facebook account though
Hideo Kojima still bae tho
And with support for Back 4 blood now dead, this video has now aged extraordinarly well like a fine wine. This is a certified hood classic.
Funny how it was promised to last years.
@@a.k8185 those B4B defenders in the comments does not talk back anymore. they got rekted by their beloved company.
@@madtech5153
Most of them don't.
There are still some diehards around.
You're so goddamn right man. This video is crazy relevant.
@@a.k8185 Expectation: 5+ years
Reality: Oct 2021 - Feb 2023
Seeing how many of L4D's team is not present in the making of B4B makes you quickly realize why things turned out the way it did
Well, that and being published by a publicly traded corporation this time instead of a privately own business like Valve
The people who made B4B are people that gave the concept of l4d
@@dcmcmother3531not really. A couple of people at turtle rock were involved with valve a long time ago and turtle rock used that as a marketing ploy but a majority of turtle rocks team had never been involved and those that eere involved with valve... Well... Their involvement with l4d2 was definitely misrepresented
To be clear I am referring to the employees of turtle rock at the time of back4blood. Yes turtlerock was the studio that originally made l4d but there had been staffing changes.
5-7 people from left4dead Made b4b and people say "the creators of left 4 dead" the next Thing IS "the creators of evolve" i did Not know that but yes they cant make good Games because they dont have the Skill for that.
@@dcmcmother3531 Concepts are easy, concepts are cheap. Go to any pub around the world and have a few drinks with a mate, you'll have hundreds of free "concepts" right there already.
Actually implementing them, however.... That takes skill, talent, time and dedication.
L4D when caught: terrifying ost that encapsulates the desperation of your situation
B4b when caught: stopwatch that plays when your test is over
I remember 10 years ago imagining what games would be like 10 years in the future. Never did I expect them to be worse.
And remember back in 2001 when games like Deus Ex and MGS 2 released.
yeah exactly, now it's just yo we have battle royale at 4k and 1000 micro transactions
Because studios like valve and rockstar are just milking their online games and lazy to make new ones.
I feel like the better technology and more cookie cutter development of games in general seems to have killed a lot of the ingenuity that led to the flavour of these games. I'm not trying to say they aren't working hard, but it seems like maybe due to the size and scale of these games, the original vision for what the game should be gets clouded and lost somewhere in the development. It's why indie games seem to still give me that feeling old games did, whilst most AAA games tend to leave me thoroughly dissatisfied.
@@gaborvarga6567 I dont know about that. I havn't played Half-Life Alyx but I'm told its a master-piece. Also Gabe Newell is basically the Elon Musk of the gaming industry, a genious. Who's to say they currently arent working on the next master-piece, dare I say HL3:D
Is a little sad that we are starting to realize that the reason this incredible games from all this companies that we respected and held in high regards was because of the people behind them...it wasn't because the COMPANY did the game, it was because the GAME DESIGNERS, the ART DESIGNERS, SOUND DESIGNERS, MAP DESIGNERS, etc were the ones that made those games memorable, it wasn't because l4d2 was made by Valve that it was good...it was because the core team were extremely passionate about the game they did and the hard work they put into it
And that core team left Turtle Rock, hence why B4B is what it is today.
Many members of the original team left a long time ago.
Well said👍
It's not a secret really...
It takes more than blue hairs and other diversity hires to make a good game. WHO COULD'VE IMAGINED THAT?
Turtlerock Studios' only selling point was literally just them cramming the "We're the creators of Left 4 Dead! We're the *REAL* creators! The original ones! Yeah! Us!" chant down our throats. And that's it. That's all they had going for them with this.
If B4B doesn't get a workshop, then this game is gonna plummet faster and harder than my IQ
I completly agree with you on this. B4B is a horrible copy paste of L4D, where they brought none of the good things.
The game is already done for, its dead
@@victor95pc you can say it’s… “Left 4 Dead.”
It would be a shame if they had two terrible flops in a row…
Modding often can fix a glitchy, generally shitty game anyhow, and make it stupidly prosperous. (*cough cough* literally any recent Bethesda release in the past 13 years).
I seriously don't understand why B4B wouldnt want to allow their game to be modded...
One thing I love about Left For Dead is how you can add mods yourself to your own liking. From mods that makes everything hilarious to mods that adds "horror ambience" that just adds spice to the game. It's just so fun to experiment knowing you'll get what you want.
Meanwhile, Valve somewhere: We must send a bouquet with a card to Turtle Rock Studios for promoting our 13 year old game. They are amazing!
Nice
I actually saw that vid and went to play L4D2 after 10 years since I last launched it
Wait, did they do that ?
Imagine valve actually trying to make game this days they would rake most of goty for themselves
L4D giga chad moment🤣