#43 Is New Light, True Light? Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2013
- This question is directed at Jehovah's Witnesses who may be unfamiliar with the Watchtower's history of changing the identity of the Faithful and Discreet Slave mentioned in Matthew 24. This doctrine is being changed yet again, reflected in the articles discussed in the July 15, 2013 Study Edition of the Watchtower magazine.
To know more about these changes, read these excellent articles.
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fai...
www.jwfacts.com/pdf/the-truth-...
To read about a conversation I had with a Jehovah's Witness elder concerning the changes, read these three blog posts.
blog.evidenceministries.org/di...
blog.evidenceministries.org/di...
blog.evidenceministries.org/di...
Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses is a series of quick questions for JWs (hence the name) and other interest parties to ponder. The answers to the questions just might be a little more revealing than most JWs would want to admit.
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Very well researched. I did not realize how many times the "new light" switched "on" and "off" regarding the identity of the slave.
I think it's changed again. They say now that the faithful slave will not be revealed until after the thousand years has ended. When I left, I didn't know what I was even supposed to believe because everything was constantly changing. It was ridiculous! Truth does not change!
Eyes Wide Open Amen!
Well said! The older literature is so eye opening! No wonder WT discourages its followers from reading it.
If you don't know the Truth, then your "truth" will keep changing.
InternetDisciple Amen! So True. For How Can the Truth Set You FREE, If it Keeps Changing? God Is Not A Wishy Washy Can't Make Up His Mind Kind of God. JWs make God out to be a God that Seems to be confused. Of course that's not at all the reality, of who God is or what He is like. You would think after all this time they would learn to do things God's way and believe him at his word. No! They have gone their own way, and the evidence shows they have been leaning on their own understandings for years. For if they were fully letting the power of God's Spirit lead them, there would have not been so much ever changing " New Light". For Jesus said the Holy Spirit is to be Our Helper, Our Guide, Our Teacher, Our Comforter, etc. The Holy Spirit Guides Into (some truth?). No the scriptures say, Jesus says. ALL TRUTH, not into ever changing " New Light.
I remember my sister had a JW lady over to the house one week before her Convention (which my sister knew about the doctrinal change coming up). and she asked her to identify who the faithful slave was, then sat back and listened. The following week after the convention, my sister asked her to continue on as to why the 144,000 were the FDS. And watched the JW squirm in her seat. My sister said, "But didn't you say last week..." LOL!
Very good review! They have built their entire empire upon their convoluted interpretations of this passage. I really like the question you pose...is new light, true light? Excellent question!
Love the history lesson, thanks!
EXCELLENT!!!!
PAULO==BRAZIL====Very well explained !!!
Pick the one that matters to you more.
1 Galatians 1:7: "even if WE or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed." The Watchtower has accursed itself many times by declaring as goods news changed doctrines in the "new light" setting beyond what it has already declared as good news! One's got to be blind not to see it!
The interesting thing is when it comes to NEW LIGHT as scripture says will shine on truth getting brighter. it's not a matter of changing . It a better understanding or getting clearer or brighter. As scripture says will happen. if all others religions don't apply this principal in its teaching. How could that be the truth. As nothing is getting clearer.
Both.
No, you can do that. Either watch the video or not. Then afterwards you can tell me which you think it is.
how much times they change their views and how much can they change in our life time?
Gee, the Anointed Class just got demoted. That's terrible. So let me ask and perhaps a JW can answer this, "If the anointed class is no longer the faithful discreet slave, is their destiny still a heavenly class or are they staying on earth like the rest of the JWs?
Sorry, update, it was about 'the generation that will not pass away'. Not the FDS.
"When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." (WT 7/15/10 p.23)
How can the spirit be wrong?
EvidenceMinistries The Holy Spirit is never wrong.
Yvette Donohue the Holy Spirit is never wrong but the Watchtower is.
What I said was faithful and discreet not infallible slave. The article you referred to says this: "From the prophetic shadows to the actual realities we observe that this God-provided channel for Christians is the collective congregation of anointed ones who serve as a prophetlike organization under the leadership of its communicating head, Christ Jesus. -Eph 5:23"
Being a prophet like organization under Christ still does not mean being inspired the way the bible writers were!
Mat 4:4 But in reply he said: 'It is written, ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah’s mouth.'
It's God's word the bible (every utterance coming forth through Jehovah's mouth) that teaches us there would be the faithful slave, Math 24:45.
Notice however that this slave, or really a slave class, is described as faithful and discreet. It does not say infallible.
We don't lie, but we are allowed to make clarifications on things that have been written about in the past. This is part of a progressive understanding the Paul alluded to in 1Cor 13:9-12 "For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially...For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror... At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately..." WE ARE NOT INSPIRED THE WAY THE BIBLE WRITERS WERE.
That is not the same thing. Here is what I mean.
"That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel.-Matt. 4:4; " (WT 7/15/13 p.20)
Please explain the reference to Matt 4:4. What is the message they are sending?
“Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:19) Jesus passed around the wine and bread, his flesh and blood. When? On the Jewish Passover.
Genesis 2:8 states: “Jehovah God planted a garden [“park,” Mo; “paradise,” Dy; pa·ra′dei·son, LXX] in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man [Adam] whom he had formed.”
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth...New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven...death will be no more... nor pain be anymore, Rev 21. Sounds like paradise on earth to me.
How is it beyond what Paul declared as Good News?
This is clear evidence by which Watchtower's own words both accuse and condemn them for their every changing beliefs. They promote the worship of men.
Any seeker should be THANKING GOD that you have done the necessary research by using the Watchtower's Own out of print publications, and not "apostate" literature which they could therefore dismiss.
So how does the governing body, at the moment consisting of eight men, not represent the last remaining ones of the rest of the 144,000 at this present time? All those of the anointed still have present and future roles to play: And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them... And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years, Rev 20:4. If I'm wrong please correct me.
The spiritual feeding was always done through a few. By far the majority of the anointed, unless they had specific skills and were invited to positions within the teaching and writing departments, had no import at all to what was actually put to print. It just wasn't their job. Much like in the first century, it was just a few, the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, who had been manoeuvred into those kinds of decision making roles as to what was going to be taught, 15:6.
Because it takes 94 years for the truth to get truer.
And I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses are going to repudiate this factual information?
"Without a doubt Pastor RUSSELL filled the office... and WAS therefore that WISE AND FAITHFUL SERVANT ministering to the household of faith meat in due season"(Harp of God,1921 edition,p.239)
"That FAITHFUL AND WISE SERVANT does not apply to one individual and NOT to BROTHER RUSSELL".(WT 2/15/1927,p.56
The big deal is that the previous viewS have all been presented as God's viewS. What is the big deal? Try to disagree with it and when you are in your judicial committee meeting, just ask, "What's the big deal?"
No we are mixing applied understanding and experience with truths that with time are coming clearer and clearer. But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established, Prov 4:18.
You deliberately missed my point. I said we are not inspired the way the bible writers were. In other words those inspired to write the bible were able to recall and put to paper God's thoughts using their own words. So the bible doesn't change, nor does it need to; its as complete as it needs to be. Our understanding on some of the things it means however is ongoing and always will be until it's all fulfilled.
I guess the objectors in 1981 were right. They had more Holy Spirit than the governing Body in 1981 who criticized the objectors? Self-appointed Governing Body is just making it up as they go along.
Before I listen to your video, please tell me. Is this "question" a real question, in that you are intellectually inquisitive person looking for information, or do you already have your answers and you believe you give the other side something to think about?
How does the Watchtower inform the dead anointed class members who died in the pass that they are not the faithful and discreet slave? Someone in the organization should perform a resurrection and give the dead ones the bad news that they are no longer the faithful and discreet slave. Good grief JWs. Wake up, your own organization is playing with your heads and worse, YOUR SALVATION.
I feel bad for Jehovahs Witnesses. they are left with trying to defend the indefensible. This is exactly why shunning, and not talking to "right hearted ones" are so important to maintaining doctrinal unity. Because any amount of factual criticism against their worldview will leave them bankrupt.
What's changed really?
zebdonk, it was the Watchtower leaders who sounded "melodramatic" when claiming that those who doubted that CTR was a FDS were not the true child of God and accused those who later thought only those who actually dispensed "truths" were a FDS of self-deception. And don't you think you also sound melodramatic by trying all in vain to defend implicitly every stupid "new light" of the Watchtower, no matter how unscriptural they are?
The Holy spirit is not wrong; its us who are in error and who need to be readjusted, brought back down to earth, corrected. Today it is much like the ancient Israelites. They were guided by God (spirit directed) and yet they, sometimes, made serious mistakes that impacted negatively upon their nation, but they were still God's people weren't they?
That's over thirty years ago. You know all those statements don't apply anymore. Unlike the bible The Watchtower is not inspired. It can be corrected and updated anytime. The bible doesn't say how many can be on the GB as part of the Faithfull Slave preparing the spiritual food for his (Jesus's) domestics, Math 24: 45, which by the way all serving members of the GB, as individuals, still are...mere domestics.
You guys always sound so melodramatic. How is it such a big deal? It was generally considered that The Governing Body represented the remaining ones of the 144,000 and it still is. More specifically however The Faithfull and Discreet slave of Math 24:45 is now identified more closely with the work that The Governing Body does, rather than others of the anointed who have no share in the actual preparation of the spiritual food: See Math 25:15
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses fast
Actually all of Jw were NEVER thought to be the 144,000. The majority of those who make up that class of the ANCIENT jews
This is 2018 and this didn’t happen. I’m not defending the g b cause I don’t believe them, but your facts don’t match what I’ve heatd
IF YOU WERE HUMBLE YOU WOULD SAY THEY OFTEN SAY SOMETHNG WHICH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE. IT HAS BEEN ONE OF THERE HABITS TO MISGUIDE THEIR PEOPLE BUT MORE THEN eager TO ACCUSE OTHER CHURCHES OF MISGUIDING THEIR FOLKS-
TO SAY AND PREACH ANd TEACH SOMETHING WHICH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE :"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you."(2 Pet.2:1)
THE BIBLE TELLS US TO FLEE SUCH
YOU ARE A WATCHTOWER-WITNESS AND SHOULD CHANGE YOUR NAME INTO IT.
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Na, think again; there's a difference to being inspired and spirit directed: The bible writers were inspired; being spirit directed is more like reading the bible and yet still learning along the way, like we all are, making adjustments when we need to. You can question and disagree; just don't be on a mission to weaken or subvert the faith of your brothers with your own personal opinions.
zebdonk Say whatever you want, God does not change. The true followers of God and Christ are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit that is poured out by Jesus and comes from God, always leads and guides those who truly have it, into ALL TRUTH. The men who run the organization have not let themselves be led by the full power of the Holy Spirit. Believe that if they truly were or are, there surely would of not been so much supposed "New Light", that they switch back & forth like someone switching on & off a light switch. God is a God of Order, and Not Confusion, and Ever Changing Light.
Russel was influenced by several men, and got his teaching from those who tried to predict Jesus' second coming, all was based upon that, and JW is based upon the influence of many men who influenced Russel. It's erroneous in its base.
Wow, that place is in disarray and messy. Didn't your mom or your wife teach you to be clean and tidy?
I file in piles.
How have JWs changed anything taught as good news by Christ or his disciples? The churches, Catholic and Protestant, from long ago, with their pagan rulers, practices, dogmas and philosophies, have changed the pure simple teachings of Christ into a confusing babel that masks not only the true teachings of Jesus but mystifies the personality and identity of God.
Remove the Watchtower spectacles and look at people with Christ's eyes. Your Revelation Book, page 38, mentions Polycarp of Smyrna who died a martyr's death in 156. "Martyrdom of Polycarp" mentioned in your Rev. Book tells Polycarp believed in eternal fire for torment of unrepentant sinners. How come Polycarp whom the Watchtower presents as a true follower of Christ believed in the so-called "Babylonian" teaching of hellfire? Please Google "Martyrdom of Polycarp" and have due respect for him.
”The PATH of the righteous is like the clarity of the Light, going (rising) and enlightening till the day is established. The way of the wicked is like darkness, they do not know what they stumble on." Prov. 4:18-19 (Interlinear Hebrew-English)
It does not read "light is increasing", it reads "the path of the righteous...." This is how erroneous JW make scripture.
Sir, you mix Christ's teachings with medicine and invite punishment upon yourself by trying to "improve" or as your GB often says "refine" His teachings.
I don't understand you. Would you go back 50, 80 years through medical journals looking for rationalized understandings of how doctors have viewed and treated the human body and then condemn all doctors because they've updated and improved upon their understanding these past 80 years? And yet that is what you are saying about Jehovah's People today.
Chameleons at work
Don't feel bad for Jehovah's Witnesses. It's the ones who have not yet come up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob, and beaten their swords into ploughshares that you should feel bad for, Isaiah 2: 3-4 They are just getting further and further away from the rulership of God's Son.
Who cares about titles? That's just human thinking. Why are you so hung up on old 1954 WTs, anyway? There's always been clarifications. We expect it.
If I told the w t what I thought of Russell I’d be cast out so far I’d teach the moon, can’t tell them that
Old light new light old light new light old light new light new light old light old light new light old light new light old light old light old light new light new light old light....AHHHHHHHH
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS...
I did not and will not watch your video. The fact that your posting these videos shows how insecure you are about your Beliefs. That you have to put others down
Five years out before reading your comment but how could you possibly know the content or purpose of this video if you refuse to watch it? What kind of logical idiocy is that? Why bother judging his motives anyway? Jesus said by your words you will be justified and by your words you'll be condemned Mt. 12:36. Why not follow Jesus' lead and analyze what he says instead of merely acting on foolishly misplaced sentiment? You'll be doing yourself a favor and looking far more intelligent along the way. 😁