"They're only human!" (the most common defence of the Governing Body) - Cedars' vlog no. 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ย. 2013
- jwsurvey.org
The most commonly used argument used by apologists/defenders of the Governing Body is "they're only human!" or "they're just imperfect men!"
Here I give my response, which is to say that if the Governing Body are just imperfect humans they should be acting accordingly.
Yes it gets on my nerves when they say "Jesus' apostles also had wrong expectations" because the apostles did not quote dates and say: "You will be kicked out of you do not believe them"
If the governing body are just men, and make a lot of mistakes, how in the world can they claim to be God's sole channel of information???!!!
GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES !!!!!
It is amazing that 7 "men" can have such control of millions of people. Having them all believe their words come from God, so just do what we say or else, and they do! Unreal and sad.
ZildjianGuy90 very sad...
c rhynehardt I literally just tried to make this point with my father. How can you mess up perfect information? How can you misinterpret perfect information? Because their not getting perfect information, their winging it just like every other religion. The only difference in this one, is that they actually weaponize your family once you wake up.
Insight, volume 2, p. 1132: "Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods." I just want to ask them where was holy spirit when they gave new explanation of generation (wicked!) in 1995?
One question just occurred to me: If the argument "we're only human" applies to the Watchtower, does it also apply to the Christian churches they have so vehemently condemned over the last 135 years?
MeinnameistDreck
exactly the main point. A just God cannot destroy other people and their organizations over their attempts of worship of God and followship of Jesus based on their doctrinal mistakes and political influence...and yet spare one other religion who is guilty of the same things and similar hurt.
Yes you got hell, immortality of soul, and trinity right....but replace those falsehoods with another, predicting end time dates and "hours", Blood doctrine with unreasonable fractions added, 1914/1919 dates extremely arguable, extremism in Disfellowshiping doctrine, UN involvement, handling of pedophilia, and more.
The word says, "get out of her MY PEOPLE, so as not to share in her sins". Jesus is not cruel, he's excepting many humble people to him no matter their creed or denomination...but all the organizations claiming to serve him have done as much harm as good and must all be leveled in order for Gods truth to come about.
No doubt in my mind anymore Watchtower has its share of sins and harm done too! And unless God makes it clear hes cleaning them up publically, swiftly, and fiercly and truly making them a humble spotless organization...then this religion has to go too along with Christendom
MeinnameistDreck Very good point, I have thought the same thing. They really wouldn’t be able to reply to that argument.
Of course not! Totally only applies to The Governing Body. Try and reason this with a JW and they’ll say you’re a bad influence or some other poor insult. 😜craziness
Keep up the good work John. Although I left over 10 years ago, it's only the last year I've started to see how dangerous and corrupt they are.
They're only imperfect narcissists.
The excuses of being "imperfect" or "only human" are not tenable because of the magnificent and venerable position they demand to occupy and the level of power, influence and authority they wield over their followers on the basis of that position.
If they channel wrong information from the spiritual realm, from whom are they channeling?
Brilliant! I really hope sincere JWs will see this or others like this and a light will go on in their heads about the cultic tyrant they serve.
That statement of them being only human drives me INSANE! Then why take their word as truth?! UGH.
I love it when they use the, "they are imperfect and can make mistakes too" argument! By doing so, what they are actually saying is that they are not getting any information or insight from Jesus (who would not make any mistakes), or through any channel of communication, but instead, are making this stuff up themselves.
"We've been wrong in the past but that's okay (we're fallible!), but if you point out current issues we might be wrong about, we'll punish YOU for bringing it up. In other words, believe what we believe, even if we're wrong as we have been in the past, or we'll strip your family away from you." Lovely. Fucking beautiful. I wonder if they ever decide disfellowshipping/shunning is wrong (again, circa 1940s) they'll make any sort of apology or retribution? I'm Agnostic, but didn't Jesus say all judgements, etc. should err on the side of mercy? Y'know, just in case?
I'm so glad you've come out with actual solid evidence front their old actual New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. I have been forced to attend the Kingdom Hall's since I was 5, and I have never liked the religion. Please keep coming out solid evidence like you did with Deuteronomy 18 : 20 - 22. I can also relate where direct questions I had would never get answered like 1914 and old things like that. Appreciate your warnings. Thank You.
According to google, discreet means "careful & prudent"..... hmmm not sure they have been too careful or prudent with their biblical interpretations over the years so how can they call themselves that?
Wow.... I always give a more complicated answer to this question but I love this line of reasoning, simple and to the point. Thanks!
I hate that excuse too! No matter what you say, they've already trained members to give a cookie cutter response. I've had many conversations with family and friends, and I already know exactly what they will say before they say it. Those non falseifiable claims make me crazy!
I'm so glad to have been raised _nonreligious/agnostic/atheist_ but *Joyful/Spiritual*.
Thank you Mom and Dad..
You are one of the fortunate ones...I wasn't so lucky.
What loving master sends his most trusted servant to deliver very important messages to his family, or friends closest to him, then punish any one of them that so much as question the validity of the messages given to them by the servant if they do not seem to be coming from the master....EVEN though the master himself gave specific instruction to his loved ones on how to test for the true origin of the message...warning them that some will come in his name & speak on his behalf falsely to deceive them?!
Yeah I heard that many times "they are human" any prophecy that comes from God must happen, regardless if they are perfect or imperfect. The GB are the ones pushing the expectations year after year.
I noticed from the '92 WT article that they admit the "individuals" are imperfect but say the FDS as a "class" are faithful and discreet. This is an attempt at fooling the JW into dismissing the obvious failings of the FDS "class" on the basis of the individual members imperfections while at the same time maintaining the concept of infallibility for the "class", which is in reality responsible for the mistakes. The new teaching is similar, stating that only when meeting together do the GB become the FDS, although as individuals they are just imperfect men.
Notice the dishonesty in comparing their false prophecies of end-of-the-world years with a sincere question that the Apostles asked: Are you going to restore the Kingdom to Israel these days? The Apostles only asked a question, they did not assert their expectation in a positive and did not then turn into into a doctrine. And how many times the same mistake? The Watchtower leaders, your have brought so much suffering to so many families, how can you escape punishment when you are brought before the Christ's throne?
When I told my mom about the false prophecies that the Watchtower made she said that they where human so not perfect
Fantastic reasoning!
Once we research the history of the Watchtower, we concluded that what it teaches is inaccurate, false and twisted. We left the Organization willingly. Along with it, all our friends we made for the past 20 years simply vanished overnight. It is a strange feeling, just like waking up from a dream. Those brothers that we met on the streets started to avoid us deliberately despite us greeting them as what we usually do. We still maintain contact with those who already awaken but in the fading process. Keep up the good work!
Yes john, this is so true, There is NO dignified way to leave this horrible organization, That's why I dissosociated myself from it, to avoid the Drama, fortunately I got away much easier than others.
He made a valid point of them reasoning their “mistakes” to them being imperfect. But it’s not that simple when your mistakes ruins families
"they're only human".....funny they can't say that about some of the people they disfellowship, and often for offenses less serious. At least some of the disfellowshipped haven't done anything that could cause harm to others, but are treated far more harshly than those members of the governing body who have.
perfect ,well said!!!
That's a classic defense mechanism used by die-hard Witnesses. "They're only human and they're just imperfect men who make mistakes". Then how can they be God's appointed channel? The problem with twisted logic such as this is that it excuses away all the pain and emotional damage countless people have suffered at the hands of the governing body.
If they were not haughty then the Crises of Conscience would never have had to be written. The Governing body lives in no mans land and they put themselves there.
John,Another gaff! How can the GB be called "Discrete", If the false hood is being channeled to over 230 Countries and in over 600 languages? Hardly discrete.!! Regards, Arnold.
They say they are only human and not perfect, they make mistakes. yes true god always used imperfect men in biblical times to guide his people but they never added, subtracted, twisted and corrupted god's word. We have god's word today to guide us we don't need religion to mislead us.
Well pointed out.
If only they would admit that they are just human instead of demanding people obedient drones to their insanity and lies. Thank you Lloyd
John, hi, I wanna say I really enjoy your videos.
I wanna say over the years I have experienced the supernatural on many occasions. so although you are atheist I'd like to suggest to you to always be open to the possibility of the supernatural.
What’s funny is that one of their awake magazines from January 1947 they are criticizing the Catholic Church for shunning former members. They said in the article that shunning is NOT biblical and is of pagan origin!
yeah but since it was 1947 they will say that's also old light lol..there's no way out with their reasoning
@dallywally72 I think that quote you posted means a very serious new light is coming... Maybe blinding
Excellent
I just like the walking dead scenery behind, ahahaha. Good vid, KEEP THE GOOD WORK, THANKS !
How can the GB/WT make mistakes or have wrong expectations...if they are directed by Jehovah's holy spirit?If so,Either God made a mistake...or simply GB does NOT have God's backing ! The answer is simple !
If someone gets disfellowshipped because they don't believe something the GB says, do they get reinstated when what the GB says turns out not to be true?
nope. They say they should have trusted their falsehoods at that time
@@polystrate1 WTF???
@@LisaForTruth It's all lies and deception, even among the members.
I used to be a Witness but slithered my way out without any real consequences. Slowly reduced the amount of time I went there. I am still technically "inactive" for the last 11 years.
When I was to be baptized, the person who studied with me said for me to give it a try and if I didn't like being a Witness, I could leave. Turns out that was a lie and really pissed me off. It feels like getting ones baptized is like a sales quota and once you are in the corporation, if you leave, you know too much and must be terminated.
@@polystrate1 That sucks. I've never been a JW, but I have a JW series on my channel
Funny how people defend men that they have never met and do not know one damn bit. It's like being bedazzled by celebrities. Celebrities don't know you and you don't know them but people sure love to have opinions about them. At least we see Hollywood celebrities interviewed on T.V. When is the last time a GB member spoke to the public about themselves ? Yet millions of people give their entire lives to men they do not know. JW's don't know their own history and it's no mistake that the WT makes it hard to find that out.
Thinking like (and about) the Governing Body makes my head hurt. Is it because I am losing IQ points by listening to their drivel? :0)
I suspect they might be cyborgs from the Pleiades. They are running an intergalactic version of Amway. Human they are not.
Stumbling blocks is better to say.
Im a stumbled block watch out
The JW.org website doesn't have this Watchtower on hand for review.
But they set themselves up to a higher standard, so I don't think it's wrong to hold them accountable to that Standard! And if God is the most high - does he need man to defend him? They are only human, but deceive the masses by their wrong and false teachings.
I always used to hear the nonsense about the "wheat and the weeds"... It seemed like a pretty confusing system to let so many weeds in the garden, and so much wheat in "Satan's" field. The more "good" people I met who weren't JWs, the less I could tolerate bad people who were. Pretty soon, I figured out that we were sailing under false colors...
Saying "they're only human" to me sounds like they're admitting it's human words and not God's. If God was passing it through them as they're the only "true" or chosen link, then surely the messages would be perfect every time 🤔
The scribes and Pharisees were also "only human" but that didn't work for them either. Check out Matt. 23 to see Jesus' take on that...lol.
Jehovah would protect his name not get a bunch of idiots to direct us
Thats why Im still a witness. I am being blackmailed. They will take away my father in law and wifes family if I leave, and they need me, so I stay a witness.
Yes, the Creators (Promise) about the 1914"generation" was just a wrong (Expectation)!!! LOL....
There only ognorent???some not All
The watchtower people have to look at 1 Thessalonians 1:3-4.
For the exhortation we give does not arise from. “Errors “
Or from uncleanness or with
“Deceit”. !
You watchtower are completely blinded. I was there, can’t believe it now, With this 7 men at Warwick.
This is why there prophesy has been false.
There not fallowing the prophets or apostles, it’s the Bible, or scrolls,.” That all of us should listen , or spiritual people I guess.
This men were chosen by Jehovah. Not by men .
As number 12:6-8.
This is an old video, but I will leave a comment anyways, how you´ll read it. I haven´t seen all your videos yet so perhaps you´ve already talked about this before.
I find very annoying the concept of “perfect human being” that all religious people always refer to. I mean, what is a perfect human being? Or a perfect rabbit or horse? I think the concept originated in Plato´s theory of ideas. We all know what a perfect circle or a perfect triangle is, for example, but when we draw or construct one it would surely be an imperfect circle or triangle compared to that abstract and well defined concept, no matter how precise our tools are.
But, when it comes to living organisms, that makes no sense. Biologically speaking, it is well know that we have all sorts of bad “designs” in our bodies, like the laryngeal nerve or our eyes wired backwards, among many others. Who made those bad designs in the first place? A loving God? Is there a perfect human design somewhere, like the perfect triangle? Did God change the entire human design after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Including Adam and Eve themselves?
What about the animals? They have the same issues. What is a perfect lion? A perfect killing machine? Were they perfect killing machines at the time of Adam and Eve? Doesn´t sound very loving. Or were they vegetarian? In that case, their entire biology and genome would have been completely different. Did God turn them into imperfect killing machines because…. someone ate a fruit? Leaving aside the reprehensible morale of doing this, why would he do a deficient job on purpose here? None of this makes any sense.
In other words: There´s no perfect design, you can always improve the previous one unless you are talking about abstract objects, like circles or triangles. Living organisms are not abstract concepts.
But if these religious people are referring to being “morally perfect”, the same thing applies: Values and morality are ever evolving concepts driven by our ever-increasing knowledge about the things that affects our wellbeing. There are complex moral dilemmas far beyond the “you shall not kill” that don´t have a black or white answer. But even those black or white “dilemmas” like slavery were never condemned by either God or Jesus, who supposedly was a perfect human being….
Well, if they were really wanting to follow Jesus the last thing they would be doing is looking for a date.
The Watchtower is right., Cedars has probably done far worse than any Elder.