Debunking "increasing light" in less than 8 minutes! - Cedars' vlog no. 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2013
- www.jwsurvey.org
Watchtower's concept of increasing light (or "new light") is not Bible-based and relies solely on the unwillingness of Jehovah's Witnesses to read certain "proof texts" in context and think for themselves.
Here are the proof texts most often used...
Proverbs 4:14-18
Daniel 12:4,8-10
2 Peter 1:16-21
(Scripture quotations in this video are from the 2013 revision to the New World Translation.)
Neither the above scriptures, nor any others in the Bible, describe a scenario where a "God of truth" who "cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) would deliberately feed false information through his Holy Spirit to his servants as a makeweight until truth is revealed at a later stage.
This is in essence what the increasing light doctrine asks Jehovah's Witnesses to believe. But not everyone is so easily swayed.
For more information, visit JWsurvey.org and JWfacts.com
It's amazing new light has always got to be renewed. There is no where else in the scriptures where God had given the wrong message to his servants. I was a JW for over 30 years before I and never thought of this. WOW!
Totally agree with your assessment...but I think the JWs will say that its their human interpretation of God's word thats "getting brighter" because as we all know, their favourite cop out is that they are ONLY human and make mistakes.
"We're only human" will be a subject for another video! ;-)
John Cedars Were not the apostles also humans? What matters is whether the GB is actually driven by the Holy Spirit as the 1st century apostles were. And the history of JWs has proved beyond doubt that this organization is not the church that Lord Jesus Christ founded.
Expecting another human or even a group of them to be "like God" is just seriously unrealistic. based on your comment - this is the standard, or expectation you have of them, or anyone for any amount of credibility. It's simply impossible. But at least they are interested in understanding God's word, and checking and checking and checking, and they never stop.. the rest of the world is pursuing selfish desires. Don't tell me you aren't included in that - everyone does it to some degree. It's always wise to seek counsel of course, but if you rely on every word someone else says to live your life by, that shows a lack of responsibility. They are responsible for our spiritual well-being of course, but if you adamantly refuse counsel, there's nothing more they can do to help you. :-/ your call. everyone's actions are their own.
+Eli G If all the Governing Body were doing was offering an opinion based on their research on a take-it-or-leave it basis, this channel would not exist. Any organizational leadership who threatens their followers with family estrangement if they disagree with their ever-changing teachings instantly loses their right to be let off the hook with flimsy "they're only human" arguments. If they're only human, they should act accordingly and stop being such bullies.
John Cedars I understand your feelings about that, believe me I do. I have often felt "threatened, intimidated, 'what are they going to do about this?, etc' ".. all those kinds of feelings. But they are just people -- yes, JW'S believe they are operating under holy spirit, under the one true God. And sure, I've been manipulated by them, the ones I was closest to; but I soon moved beyond that, and went out of my way to see "how far" this 'manipulation-technique' went. It went only as far as self-righteous people do (and they exist in and out of every religion, you can't deny that..) Just because your family are loyal to Jehovah and his word, and you feel it's a "conversion-technique" or whatever... That doesn't mean they aren't really God's people. Don't they pretty much spend their whole lives dedicated to this? Research, double-checking, and when they realized they've got it wrong, correcting it... and moving forward? Isn't that what they do? I mean honestly.. it isn't half as scary as what other religious leaders have done; are doing; or what they're raking in... I'm sure your family wants for you to live long and prosper, I'm sure of it! But you already know the truth. Like the Titanic - even if you hang on til the end, it's still sinking.. eventually, it's all under water. The family members made a promise to God; and like He keeps his, I'm sure they're doing their best to keep theirs to Him. I appreciate you very much for taking the time to respond to me. And I do appreciate your channel - it's given me a bit of substance to mull over, plenty of research. And it's helped me cope... The bottom line of the GB is - they are continually doing their best to use ONLY scripture, to interpret scripture. And sure, they jumped the gun, there have been strange reasonings, some over-anticipation - so call it dumb.. that doesn't mean you have to stop doing your own study... nor remain bitter over it, which isn't healthy - valid yes, you have every right to your feelings! J. even took Lot's feelings into consideration - but the town he went to was still doomed for justice in the end. Keep building up other people and being a source of encouragement. :-) You have been to me.
John Cedars Very good, as good as the rest of all your valuable shared analogy. Here you have a big fan of yours. Love all the information so well documented about the "Be careful somebody is Watching you from a Tower".
Thank you!
Jehovah does not lie.Witnesses teach old light,new light as absolute,then the light gets brighter.So now forget almost everything we've taught for the last 50or more yes.Now we have New Light.The Governing Body are doing a cruel guessing game with peoples lives.
So many verses they take out of context it's simply unbelievable. That is the way of the cults my friend.
It's always amusing when I think about Jesus found a thorough inspection and appointing the watchtower his mouthpiece in 1919-- uh ya these guys are close enough I guess, we'll just keep revealing new light for the next 85 years then it'll be closer to what we we were looking for. Unreal.
Unfortunately, religion thinking and believes are not based on reason but emotions.
I like your thinking sir
This video alone should be enough to discredit the GB as the “Slave” for any mind that isn’t blinded by mind control. This still remains Lloyds best video IMO.
Excellent points. IF Armageddon is really coming before the generation that overlaps the generation that witnessed the year 1914, passes away (Watchtower Apr 15, 2010) ... and If Jehovah is constantly "refining" His people "morally and doctrinally" (Watchtower Feb 15, 2006) then WHY did He wait till 2010 to (finally) reveal the true timing of Armageddon?! Why didn't He tell Charles Russell 130 years ago? Answers? any JW... anyone?
Thank you so much for this video, John. If ever there was an example of scriptures being taken out of context to back up a false teaching this is it! I hope many active JWs get to see this video and hopefully, even if they verbally condemn it, a few seeds of doubt will have been planted in their cult trained minds. I'm hoping to introduce this topic to my JW family when the opportunity arises.
wonderful, this is great info, thankyou for this john, may yhwh bless you in the shamayim.
All I want to say is Amen!
So logical and true Thanks Cedar ...
As an Anglican priest this is very insightful to me. This way that the WT has of approaching Scripture is so odd and strange to me. Thank you for sharing.
Just be clear here... there are 100s of examples of Anglicans doing exactly the same thing.
Great video, Cedars!
Proverbs 4:18 in the future NWT revision: The path of the righteous is like the traffic light changes depending the transit bottlenecks.
Very well explained.Regards, Arnold.(U.K.)
John i've heard first Corinthians 13 nine through 11 used in the defense of increasing light. And that there will not be perfect understanding until God sets of this kingdom which is perfect. But I agree with you the idea of increasing light is ludicrous.
Great video. Thanks, John.
very well analysed jhon ,as in all your videos
Thank you, that was enlightening.
Excellent point.
Great video Lloyd. One of the best that ive have seen. Thats how the watchtower covers up their false prophecies....
Wow I have no idea what happened with the text below. Very weird. But you get the gist.
I'm an apostate from 2009. I was on the JWR forum!
my name was Dark Angel and Newborn
I like your work. I have an idea for a creative writing exercise for you. Assemble together a collection of the 'old light' statements and some of the most outrageous things they used to say and believe and give a 'talk' based on these teachings. It would highlight how rediculous it is to believe they have some special corner on the truth and hopefully cause at least some people to question the current light with the realization that much of it will some day be seen to be just as rediculous. Keep up the good work.
You r da Man.....love your work!
We have to work together all of us affected by this monolithic organization in order to bring change. Every Wednesday morning the governing body meets why don't we call and request a change in their policies/procedures?
Merci pour la traduction ;)
Yep as the Good Book says " always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth" ... and such lack of understanding is clear to all. New light, old light, red light, green light, pfffft!
Thank you for this video. It was very well done. I appreciate it very much!!
That is pretty similar to the Mormon "milk before meat" theory. Hmmm.
That's what I'm talking about. Good video.
Absolutely on the same page as you 👍
Nor would an all-knowing and alt-loving God withhold information.
You are the best thanks
So the CONTEXT of Prov 4:18 teaches you can CONTRADICT Yourself over 100 years? Is Jehovah the "Author of Confusion?" 1 Cor 14:33.
knowledge can become brighter or clearer for anyone not just those in this religion. If that were true Any organization could say that to prove they're the only way as well. It doesn't prove they are the only way to truth and to say so is ment to keep control. Seeking Knoweledge is good and it should have no boundaries. If the light gets brighter well....., yeah , mine sure has.
We come to same conclusion after reading the context of Pro 4:18. It has nothing to say about progressive understanding. Please let the scripture speaks for itself
Greetings from Sweden! I like to see youre videos. Im self out about 6 years ago..like i use to say "I was KICKED out.
I'll debunk there so called "new light" the Scripture that they use Proverbs 4:14,19 is speaking about ones life course or the PATH that you choose, either a RIGHTEOUS or a WICKED "PATH".
Today's light is useless tomorrow. Therefore tomorrows light will by definition fall into the same category. How many more times do intelligent people have to see this before they realize they have been "duped"? A true prophet of God says something then it happens. It will not fail. The WT has been saying things now for over a hundred years and they have a 100% failure rate. If they really are Gods prophet on earth today then we can now see that the Almighty has a fantastic sense of humor
Good video. I hear from JWs as a response the "meat in due season."
Bravo
We have to hope that humanity will wise up to reality and not rely upon faith.
Thanks John. Everyone should watch this video. Watchtower is full of sh*t.
Thank you Lloyd. You’re just too intelligent to be in that religion. The JW religion is definitely for the unquestioning plebs.
I think I know a scripture where Jehovah deliberately lies to his messengers. 1 Kings 22:20-23. Jehovah appoints a lying ghost to give false information to all "Jehovah's prophets" (verses 5-12) but Michaja.
New light, should always be 'in addition' to old light. New light should never contradict old light, for then old light was wrong, or in other words false. This was actually taught by the Watchtower.
for it is impossible that that which was once true, should ever be false
If we were following a man ... undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now. But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth.... A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light," but adds to it. (WT 2-1881, p. 188)
The Watchtower Organization knows this full well, for they have said this in the Watchtower. Now 100 years after their failed prophesy of 1914, they Must keep changing their prophesies, for they are a false prophet, so as not to be discovered as this false prophet, they purport the lie, 'the light gets brighter', amazing the average R&F doesn't see through this.
Except that your understanding and their understanding at that time was flawed. None can escape imperfection right now, or back then.. its getting worse all the time, witnesses arguring with each other inside the organization - but you will see soon, that those who ate still alive on the earth today, 101+ years old are also considered "that generation" -- it will not pass away before the end, which means your time (and mine) are cut extremely short at this point. I, for one, want to live through it. . even if I don't become "ordained" by then.. your choice is youra, but if you really rwadvyour bible and studied on your own, you would realize thoae old reasonings were imperfect to begin with. There will be many more changes to cone after Armageddon too. :-)
Eli G That generation DID all pass away! The 1914 generation are DEAD and gone! Wake up! The wt. prophesy FAILED. ALL of them, since 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, every single one FAILED.
Sally Peterson I am awake, and I will STAY that way. When you dedicate your life to Jehovah, with the prospect of living forever - you dedicate your personal obedience to Him, with "forever" in mind. You can't relax and do nothing in Paradise. He will give us work and commands. It just won't be as hard as it is now. Anyone who had in mind their "promise to serve God UNTIL the end", has already been defeated. Anyone dedicated only until the end of this system, may as well leave before the new one - there's no faith and loyalty in that. And it's a selfish endeavor. Whoever "serves" God will be following his commandments forever. I'm sorry you don't understand his standards for true peace. I hope someday you do. If not, enjoy the rest of the time you have here and now.
Eli G
show me where Jesus offered paradise earth please? show me where Paul explained our hope for paradise earth please? Don't you remember? Jesus said I am going to prepare a PLACE for you, that WHERE I AM YOU ALSO MAY BE. The hope held out to all is a heavenly one, there is but ONE Hope for all--"just as also you were called in ONE HOPE of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:5
Sally Peterson I don't have to show you anything. I'm not Jehovah. I just happen to have immovable faith in HIM. Besides, why must anyone have anything to prove to anyone? What's in your heart is all that matters.
That's actually claimed about slavery in exodus 21 and somewhere in Deuteronomy... I've heard people say that God told them that slavery was ok because it was the norm and gave extra rules to help enforce it, so they would eventually realise it was wrong.
That's of course complete bollocks; God can say "don't kill, don't lie, don't steal" but can't say "don't own people as property"
There is also a scripture somewhere that says God intentionally deceives some people (not for the reason you are getting at) in order for something bad to happen to them - I think it's a false vision of something...
Anyway, great videos!
debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/the-biblical-lies-of-god-and-jesus.html?m=1
I'm reluctant to use these types of sites sometimes, because they tend to be massively bias in one way or another. But there are several instances (more than I thought) where arguments can be made that god was deceiving people or lying potentially. A few of these portray god as not having perfect knowledge too
A god who cannot lie would not have chosen the bible students and Russell, for starters , and changing doctrine is not from Jesus or Jehovah, this is right , we are.not getting light but darkness
Rev.:18 - 19 - I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
Also... how can God be all powerful, if it is 'impossible' for him to lie? Aren't 'all' things possible when one is 'all powerful' - Hence the word 'all' in the term, 'all powerful'.
There is a big difference from God GIVING wrong information and ALLOWING it to be passed on by and to his servants. I think that giving wrong information would be tantamount to lying. And Heb. 6:18 says: "it is impossible for God to lie".
Abraham got told he HAD to kill Isaac.
Jona got told god would destroy Ninive
Adam and Eve got told they would die THAT VERY DAY.
Moses was told "thou shalt not kill" then was told to go and kill the offending Israelites worshipping the golden calf.
Oh and remember how god destroyed the cities of Tyr and Babylon and the kingdom of Egypt... FOREVER so nobody would live there any longer? No? Me neither. Seems god has forgotten to follow up on his threats after making them known in his own book!
Is the bible lying or was it god that told the untruth? And no matter his motives, these things were not true when they were spoken, so they ARE lies. maybe "white lies", but that is not a difference a god should need to make if he's honest by nature.
Also why would you base anything on Hebrews, which is one of the *_fake_* Pauline Letters... How would *_Not_* Paul "know" what god can and cannot do? With that low standards you could equally justified declare Josh Olstein has got the real knowledge revealed to him or Steven Anderson or Pat Robertson and go with their word over other scripture.
So God Almighty, (The Creator, YHWH, Jehovah, Allah, Wakantonka,etc), has repeatedly allowed countless erroneous teachings (New, New Light) to be preached and teached EARTHWIDE, to MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people for generations since the late 1800s as absolute Truth? ? And has allowed the self proclaimed Faithful & Discrete Slave starting with CT Russell who claim to be directed by Holy Spirit and are God's sole channel of communication, to punish and disfellowship any who questioned what turned out to be wrong doctrines and policies ! ? ! And He has allowed false hope, unfulfilled expectations, extreme disappointment? Hmmm, any reasoning person reviewing this JW history would realize; something's wrong with this picture.
A new truth from the mouth of Jehovah, should NOT contradict or change an old truth from the mouth of Jehovah.
Since it does, then Jehovah must be a lying, deceptive God.
l do hold new truths for you!
I was just thinking about what you said about the first reference to how jws' use the light" when there are at least two more scriptures that would achieve their goals better. I think that it makes sense if you think of the first scripture as a 'straw person' argument (hope I'm using this term correctly) to draw you into an argument where a jw can pull YOU into a deeper discussion where their bug guns lay in waiting. I suppose this might make sense if we consider that the soc has probably already researched and reviewed their arguments, positions and responses possibly years before they're even released as "new light." Just wondering, but I wouldn't put it past them. I wonder if there is a room of aged white males researching every possible outcome of every last use of scripture to refute challenges to their dogma? If so, ones' continued use of reactionary approaches to dismantle their belief system, as based on logic, will mostly likely fail to have any impact on those indoctrinated ones. Also explains how they rarely question anything; maybe because they already have a series of answer that mesh and interlock with endless 'supporting' scriptures and theories. They have years to come up with their rhetoric, but we spend only months challenging it. No wonder they don't listen. The deeper a discussion gets, the deeper and more dogmatic their research tools take them. Anyway, just a bit of midnight conjecturing and paranoia.
Keep up the good work John! ~K.
its verry simple people JEHOKVA, the name in it self is a fraud reveal it,s actual meaning and the rest will fall like a house of cards!!!!!! Dare to do this why ?? because this name belongs to the exact opposite that it represents, I CHALLENGE ALL OF YOU !! However there are those that will still serve this master!!
Thanks for your reply. I think 'Increasing Light' happens to be a rather complicated issue, especially to those still under the soc's influence and indoctrination.
anyone ever told you that you look like gerald butler.?,........you do, oh yes!
It's in Acts 1:6! The apostles went throughout Jerusalem confidently proclaiming: "Millions now living will see the kingdom of God restored to Israel in this generation! This is according to God's word and we could not change it even if we wanted to". Then Jesus had to give them new light that it does not belong to them to know when the kingdom will be established. LOL.
And remember Daniel? He didn't understand some of the things he was inspired to write so he wrote down his own speculations as to what they meant and as a result the book of Daniel had to be adjusted when new light came. LOL.
If God can use his spirit to direct imperfect men to write a collection of books (the bible) that is doctrinally sound, never in need of updating; how is it that he can't also use his spirit direct an organization of imperfect men to print doctrines that are sound, never in need of updating? It makes no sense when you think abou it.
The real reason why they're alway changing doctrines is because pride causes them to speculate on matters not explicitly taught in the bible. Rather than humbly admit they don't understand what a text means, they feel they must give some sort of explantion because they have to live up to their image of being "The Faithful And Discreet Slave", the only organization to whom the bible is not a sealed book, the only organization to whom all must turn for food at the proper time. Then, as is often the case, their speculation gets exposed as being erroneous and they have to give their usual PR spin about increased light and Proverbs 4:18. All of this could be avoided if they were truly humble and just stuck to what the bible explictly teaches. But if they just stuck to what the bible explicitly teaches then there's no need for the organization, is there. They have to present their speculations as being some unique insight that no other organization has, in order for their organization to remain relevant. See how it all works?
Perhaps the light is just listening to.yhe bible and being like jesus and helping fellow man
What a load of liars!
I agree with you completely, but i think a die hard JW would just say it's not what god is giving out, it's their ability to understand it which changes. So god doesnt lie, we're just to stupid to understand it.
they are not claiming that God is giving false information, but that early cleargy men changed scriptural meaning, remember that back then, people were prosecuted and killed for trying to read or translate the bible.
isaiah 5:20WOW ,WHO CALL DARKNESS LIGHT
gb does
because they are look at psalm 146:3,4- only men
I'm not trying to be on the side of the watch tower but I think what the witnesses are saying is that for example Jesus could not reveal everything about himself all-in-one shot to his disciples, otherwise they would be too shocked or wouldn't understand. So he revealed a little about himself from time to time rather than just blurting out, I am the savior of mankind etc. I've been an exjw for a long time and have forgotten alot so I'm not an expert or anything. Just my 2 cents.
If the original scriptures were imperfect then it wouldn't make sense if they supported the concept of increasing light. That's logic for you!
The logic is good, but the sad reality of JW's are "you cannot wake up those who refuse to wake up"...the best we can do IMHO is to help those who have managed to get out, those who are kicked out and those who are being PULLED in...dry the river.
So long as my logic works, I'm happy! I agree that the majority of JWs are immune to logic and reason, but this is not the case with all of them.
It costs me nothing to make a 7-minute video, so if it wakes up one or two wavering Witnesses and forces them to re-evaluate their trusted beliefs, it will be more than worth it! :-)
+John Cedars Revelation 2:2
...soon Satan and this world will have you believing in a false paradise -- by removing things you don't like :-/
***** nice! And yet someday none will be "aloud" or in the words they prefer "needed"... because Satan already has a plan to lull the population. Things are about to get WAY more "mickey mouse".
***** I understand your feelings. However, I have researched - and I personally believe Jehovah is the only source of Truth. This government we have to deal with is false. I can't wait till they're gone. >my personal feelings, though. Not trying to change your mind - I appreciate you sharing yours! I can see you still appreciate scripture, for that I am glad. The word of God. Am just curious - how long were you with Jw?
Challenge accepted: very last chapter of 1 kings. Jehosophat teams up with Ahab .Ahab inquires of 400 men/ prophets they say God is on your side,however one prophet warns Ahab that Jehovah sent a deceptive spirit to fool the 400 other prophets into giving the king a big thumbs up into going to war ....long story short Ahab gets shot by an arrow and tells his charioteer to take him away from the camp where he bleeds out and the dogs lick up his blood.lesson is honesty is a two way street also honesty is not meant for enemies of the God of War.
This is taken from Matthew Henry's commentary on 1 Kings 22:19-23:
"It is not without the divine permission that the devil deceives men, and even thereby God serves his own purposes. With him are strength and wisdom, the deceived and the deceivers are his, Job. 12:16 . When he pleases, for the punishment of those who receive not the truth in the love of it, he not only lets Satan loose to deceive them (Rev. 20:7, Rev. 20:8 ), but gives men up to strong delusions to believe him, 2 Th. 2:11, 2 Th. 2:12 . Those are manifestly marked for ruin that are thus given up. God has certainly spoken evil concerning those whom he had given up to be imposed upon by lying prophets. Thus Micaiah gave Ahab fair warning, not only of the danger of proceeding in this war, but of the danger of believing those that encouraged him to proceed. Thus we are warned to beware of false prophets, and to try the spirits; the lying spirit never deceives so fatally as in the mouth of prophets".
Yes, GB members are humans and only humans and, THEREFORE, should have paid GREATER attention to what Paul says at Galatians 1:6,7 not to preach a different gospel. Even if the GB were angels, they'd still provoke damnation upon themselves and the reason why is not because they are angels or humans but because they have repeatedly gone BEYOND and AGAINST God's word. John, brother, I can't wait to see your next movie. All the best. Your ex-JW brother from the country of Georgia.
Hello John Cedars I am a little confused about this "light" you are talking about. I know it's biblical but can you please explain to me what this all means in your video and the purpose of it? I am not a Witness and I have recently put my studies on hold because of the stories I have been hearing on the Internet about former Jehovah's Witnesses a nd it is appalling and sad what has happened to them. I remember years ago when I studied maybe 25 years ago with them they always told me don't listen or reading anything from apostates because they are "bad" and can dilute your mind with wrong thinking and stuff. Deep in my mind wondered what made these people turn away but I thought the Witnesses were the truth so I stayed away from apostates and their literature. Perhaps I should have read it and then I wouldn't be in this mess. Nonetheless I agreed with the Witnesses and decided to try it out. Some aweful things happened to me during my studies so I left. I don't know what possessed me to go back considering the things that happened but I guess I was still looking for the "truth" so I decided to give it a second shot. I thought maybe I would just ignore what others say and do and make the truth my own but now with computers and Internet I tapped into my curiosity about "apostate" thinking and decided to check out what other s were saying, which were against the Witnesses wishes and I was quite disturbed by it all. Especially hearing about child abuse cases and stuff. I was really hurt about how some congregations not all though how they dealt and how the WT handled some of these cases. Very disturbing. Reading some of Ray Franz ' s reports about what he experienced with the GB shocked me. Reading these "apostate" literature has made me see things from a whole new light has AWAKENED me a lot. Please explain this "light" you are talking about and thank you for reading this long comment I needed to get this off my chest.
Savina
Savina Batres Perhaps John will reply yet, though I know he is a busy man. In the meantime I'll take a shot.
"New light" is what Jehovah's Witnesses call new understanding of scripture. These "understandings" might relate to when Armageddon is coming, for example they once said that the generation that saw 1914 would never die, but would live right through into a new world. Once the time came that this was no longer possible, they received "new light" about the definition of the word "generation"... they have actually changed the definition several times in recent years, including one definition that they had used decades ago - which is a flip flop - or blinking light. Recent new light has redefined the phrase "Faithful and discrete slave" to mean the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses specifically. Anybody who attempted to apply that scripture to the Governing Body in years past would have been labeled an apostate.
New light can also come out about various policies. For example organ transplants. They were considered ok, then condemned as cannibalism, then they were okay again - another blinking light.
There are many other examples. Just John is right, there is no Biblical example of God giving his representatives falsehood to tide his followers over until they are ready for the truth.
Thank you for responding to this Daniel are you or were you a JW? It sounds like they change their meanings and definitions a lot. It can be very confusing. Why in the world would the Governing Body consider apostasy for questioning them on this? To me I don't understand that. Can you please explain why? It sounds ludicrous to me. Thank you
Savina
Sorry Daniel I noticed that you said that there is no indication in the bible where gives falsehood to tide his followers over or until they are ready for the truth. The Witnesses say that in the bible it is mentioned to "give food as in spiritual food at the proper time" Is that not indicating that food should be given at the proper time until they are ready for the truth as I had mentioned earlier in the paragraph? Perhaps they are simplifying what John Cedars said though making it easier to understand?
So you mean a wise and desecrate servant would provide poisonous food?
Savina Batres I am no longer a JW, but I was for 36 years.
Questioning the Governing Body about anything is viewed as apostasy. JWs are expected to believe the "entire range" of current Watchtower teachings.
So, in the past there were people who thought that it made more sense that the Governing Body specifically was the Faithful Slave, but the Watchtower said it was the entire remnant of the 144,000. So, to say it was the Governing Body at that time was an apostate idea.
Now that the Watchtower says that it actually is JUST the Governing Body that is the Faithful Slave, to say it is the remnant of the 144,000 is the Slave would be an apostate idea.
The truth is that the "Faithful Slave" passage is simply a parable, not a prophecy... which of course would be the worst kind of apostate idea of all to a JW.
Bottom line is that you can't disagree with anything the Governing Body teaches currently, regardless of how many times they have changed doctrine on the topic. If you do, you risk losing your family.
Can you turn the base down ffs....
Luke Glanford What? Something wrong with your hearing (or possibly your mind).
I'm not defending the 'lightbrighter' stance, but how about animal sacrifice?
The animal sacrifice was not a "less bright" light, but a temporal commandment by God for forgiving sins by the shedding of the animal´s blood (instead of the sinners); it had its purpose and it accomplished it, but after Jesus' sacrifice as the Lamb of God it was just no longer needed, as the rest of the law.
The difference with the WT doctrine is that they turn 180 degrees everytime there is "new light", completely contradicting themselves in the process and saying that it came from God.
God bless you
Mvillano13
actually, i was referring to the fact that God commanded the sacrifice of animals, and then later, (i think in Psalms) said he never commanded animal sacrifice.
I get it. Maybe you are referring to Isaiah 1, there God says to the people of Israel that He's tired of their sacrifices that He didn't ask. If you see the passage in the context of the book, He's referring to the "spirit" of those sacrifices, which had become mere religion and they only sacrificed their animals because of tradition. In 1 Samuel 15 God says that He wants obedicence, not sacrifices. It's the same idea. God accepts the sacrifices as fruit of that obedience, followed by a will to change their ways and not because a tradition or hipocrisy.
God bless you.
Mvillano13 No, i was not referring to Isaiah.
(Psalm 51:16) For you do not take delight in sacrifice-otherwise I would give [it]; In whole burnt offering you do not find pleasure.
(Psalm 40:6) Sacrifice and offering you did not delight in; These ears of mine you opened up. Burnt offering and sin offering you did not ask for.
(Jeremiah 7:21-22) 21 “This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said, ‘Add those whole burnt offerings of YOURS to YOUR sacrifices and eat flesh. 22 For I did not speak with YOUR forefathers, nor did I command them in the day of my bringing them out from the land of Egypt concerning the matters of whole burnt offering and sacrifice.
Perfecto.
If you read the context of the psalm is the same idea as the prior passage. Verse 17 says "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise" (NIV), meaning the same. It is useless to give sacrifices without a God desiring God and to obey Him, which is what Israel did so many times. The sacrifices were made for Israel to atone for their sins, but God despided them since they didn't even repent.
God bless you.
Hmm as far as I know, the only thing to be revealed progressively in the scriptures was the identity of the Messiah. What his name was. Where he would be born. What he would preach and how he would die. Everything else was pretty much straight forward.
Except for God's explicit commands to sacrifice animals to him, and then his explicit statement that he never asked for such sacrifices.
Verse please
Rhamsody Phage (Jeremiah 7:21-22) . . .“This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said, ‘Add those whole burnt offerings of YOURS to YOUR sacrifices and eat flesh. 22 For I did not speak with YOUR forefathers, nor did I command them in the day of my bringing them out from the land of Egypt concerning the matters of whole burnt offering and sacrifice.
(Psalm 40:6) 6 Sacrifice and offering you did not delight in; These ears of mine you opened up. Burnt offering and sin offering you did not ask for.
There are more.
OK koo I'll get on it. Not to sound snide but I kinda figured it was OT. The OT has always been a tricky read. Several passages give me pause.
I'm not sure a scripture standing on its own context is reason enough for me to disgard the entire Bible however, but I will look into it...
Rhamsody Phage lol. Of course its the OT. And i should hope these few scriptures would not so easily shake your faith. Though it does give one good reason for some deeper questioning. Let me know what you find.
hey dude
Yes, I like bug guns.
~K.
Evans hi “ in acts 4:12.
Furthermore there is no salvation in anyone else,
For there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
This is there errors there not holding on to the head, Christ “!
In 1 Corinthians 3:11.
For no man can lay any other foundations then what is laid.,
Which is Jesus Christ.”
This men from Warwick have taken over the seat of Jesus,
Apparently.
And the CB name Warwick seems to be mean king maker.
Yes they have sat up there own princes and kings.
In first 1 Thessalonians 2 : 2: 3.
Said
The exhortation we give does not arise from error ,”
Or from uncleanness or with deceit.
This man the Bible writers that and Jesus apostles were chosen by Jehovah.that’s why when they would speak it came to be so .
And men from today are absulitly not chosen from God”!
That’s why there prophetic 1878
1914 1925 and 1947 or 1957.
There false prophets.
Your daughters are so cute,
I enjoy hearing your accent of British.
Please don’t change it bye!”
In number
The Bible 📖 Says that the father of Lies 🤥 is Satan the Devil! 😈 Not Jesus Christ! Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is an Eternal Sin! In this World and the kingdom of Heaven the new World to Come! 👑✝️🙌
Correct Lloyd New Light 💡 Doctrine is False!
A dream I had at the time all my doubts in Jehovah as a good god came to a climax whent like this: I was standing on some kind of huge pier... watching over the ocean. And with me was a group of people that were clearly of all sorts of religions.. my dad was also there. We were all waiting for something ...waiting for Armageddon. Then a huge mushroom cloud appeard over the horizon. But nothing happened. I saw nobody around me dying... but then one thing did happen quite unexpectedly... my dad said "so this wás Armageddon!!" But it clearly was 'just' an atomic bomb.. then I woke up...
"Increasing light" my ass!! ...and then finally ...I really woke up....
God has lied. He told Adam and Eve that on the day of their eating from the forbidden tree they would die. And... well... they didn't. So Satan didn't tell the first pork pie, it was the big G himself.
God did not lie. Adam and Eve did die - spiritually, and their fellowship with God was ended. He put them out of the garden and they were on their own.
Since then all mankind is born tainted with Adam's sin nature and is thus separated from God. Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". However, God is rich in mercy and "so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16.
Jesus shed His blood for us - He paid the price for our sin and God's justice was satisfied. Because of His sacrifice for us, all who receive Him as their personal Saviour are restored to fellowship with God both now and in eternity.
You really need to stop waisting your life on this! Move on .... I was brought up as a witness and I just left simple as that
...I'm sincerely curious as to why you feel he's "waisting" his time, in this movement, please do tell me thanks.
are his videos or his actions bothering u? if u really had left the org then his videos shouldn't bother u. in fact u should thank him for strengthening your conviction to leave and that he is enlightening many people with his works (for me, im very thankful to him), so i don't agree he is wasting his time. the fact that he is committing so much time and effort on this shows that he doesn't think he is wasting. he is a man with a mission.
+yukio321 people are intelligent to know what they are doing .... People will believe in what they want to .... And fundamental it's the org that's gone corrupt ... Not the basis of the religion
+Sally Short .. Intelligent people can , have and are still being deceived . It is being knowlegable and being educated about the Watchtower that will help current JW's to see that the Watchtower has deceived and manipulated them and that they are in a harmful cult.If you think warning people about joining a harmful cult so they will not have to go through the suffering John and so many former Witnesses go through is wasting time then that is sad on your part.
Sally Short Well Sally dear, if you have moved on what the hell are you doing on this channel watching Lloyd’s videos? Talk about pot and kettle!!
Actually some of us ex-JWs like taking a peek at the latest goings on of the Borg and one can rely on Lloyd to have researched everything and for his videos to be accurate and honest which is a hell of a lot more than can be said for what the watchtower dish up to their ignorant followers. Now run along and get on with your life. Simple as that.
So sorry I spent 19 years in this made up religion. Began to do my research on the early Church that led me back to the Catholic Church. So glad to be back. Wish I could talk o my former J.W. Friends. As you know they will not talk to me.
Diane Sic gala you're a deluded idiot, you don't go anything but atheist once you gain the perspective of being a JW
Guitar Heaven, I agree, don't blame the Bible for some scammers misrepresenting it.