Bjørn is the hero we need! Taking electric cars for 1000 km rides, day after day. Also, he's so much more, well, human than all those serious & 'artificial' people in the well known car shows. Makes every kilowatthour(!) worth watching!
I'd love to see a degradation test on a car with average milage (15k km p/y) that was almost exclusively AC charged to 80% as i think most people certainly in irl/uk will charge at home at night and only do a couple of trips a year further than work
I have a Model S85 2013 with a new battery for 2 years now. I've done 50.000km (the car total is 250.000km) with it, when it was new I had about 71.6kwh nominal full pack, then 6 month later it was 73.7kwh, now 2 years later it's still 73.7kwh. I have a supercharger a few km away from my home, so I'm doing 100% supercharge with this car... most of the time I came with less than 5% after a 60km drive, so the battery is fairly empty and hot, when I charge it reaches 110-120kw then gradually decreases. I charge upto 80%. Never stays below 20% or above 80% for a long time. So basically, I don't think supercharging is actually aging the battery when you do it the right way.
I totally agree with your findings (Model S pre facelift). My one has 270000km with the first battery and has 9% degradation. 2/3 of it is supercharging, since I drive long distances. My one is a 70D only.
I have 2019 Long range and 80000km. On it. I was using superchargers every day even a few times a day. So, my degradation is 5,2-5,4% out here in Canada. I thought it’s a lot, because I was using a superchargers too often, but I guess it isn’t.. Great video, thank you for sharing.👍
Would be really interesting to see a degradation test of a 64 kWh Kona. If you could find a very high mileage one would me most interesting. Because it seems that Kona's LG battery holds up really well (if it has not burned down lol) in terms of degradation. I have a 2018 Kona with 64k km and after logging with Car Scanner or Torque pro app it seems that still around 64 kWh is usable.
Still waiting for Twizy 1000 km challenge. Should be easy in this new, souped-up Twizy, right? (Edit: or maybe for Twizy it could be a 100 km challenge!)
Would be great to see a degradation test on a 2019 Model 3 SR+. Different battery size, potentially different charging habits, wonder what that looks like. Maybe Marcus has one of those?
@@bjornnyland In your video "Checking battery in Model 3 SR+ with ScanMyTesla" ( th-cam.com/video/PIZZvKBoY_I/w-d-xo.html ) at the 4 minute mark, you bring up the Additional Vehicle Information window, which states "Audio System: Premium speakers, no external amplifier", which is the same as my 2020 SR+. As far as I understand from various Tesla forums this means, to my great disappointment, that my car does not have the subwoofer amp. Also, despite having all the premium speaker grilles, my car is missing some speakers. I thought originally my car had the full system, but using a torch / flashlight I can see there is nothing behind some of the grills.😢 The SR+ interior is described as "Upgraded audio - immersive sound" on Tesla's English Language web sites and "Oppgradert lyd - altoppslukende lyd" in Norway. That said, the audio system still sounds very good. If your car has the full "Premium-lyd - 14 høyttalere, 1 subwoofer, 2 forsterkere og altoppslukende lyd" of the dual motor models you're very lucky, so don't tell Tesla 😄
I would say the „nominal full pack“ value is only a guess. I‘m observing my Model 3 for a year now and it hovers around 70-71,8kWh. Can‘t see a clear correlation. Normally it‘s higher in summer 🤷🏼♂️
My 6 year old leaf is at 13% degradation, not bad for no active cooling. I suspect it’s twice as bad as a thermally controlled battery. What would be interesting is the extra expense of thermal cooled vs the impact to the driver for the first 10 years of ownership. Also the extra weight and possible servicing etc, I wonder in the future if density and cheap cost will mean simply adding more capacity cheap and hide the extra to pay the degradation. there will be a sweet spot of cost vs thermal control vs extra capacity balance.
That’s not bad, my 6 year old Kia Soul with 128.000 km has 33% degradation. Only fast charged a handful of times. Really bad battery on the first 27kw Soul EV, lots of people has over 30% degradation after 120-150k km
What is expected loss after say 80-100k km if you have more than 95% homecharging, and almost never above 80% state of battery in comparison to this? Will it be possible to see half the loss of Mc Hammer and Marcus' bil?
@ 100% charge you should check nominal remaining, not nominal full pack. Today when i charged to 100% i got 72,5 nominal full pack, but 73,5kWh nominal remaining, thats why it indicates 101%. My car performance 2019-03 32000km
Got to say my Wife and I would like to come to Norway, we live in BC and Norway looks like an extension of BC Canada, lots of mountains, ocean etc but unlike BC, some really good roads and good EV infrastructure and good place to lease a car for our holidays at Marcusbil!
@@sk.43821 1. Most apes eat it from that side. Learn from the pros. 2. You can get rid of the tiny black thing at the blossom end while opening the banana 3. Better grip with the stem side in the hand 4. You save the best and perfect part for the end 5. You can use the shell as a trap, like they draw it in comics 💁♂️
Hey Bjørn, will you also make a test on Tesla's buffer? How much energy is still available when car shows 0%. And is this buffer a difference between 'Nominal full pack' and your measurement?
The Twizy tuning is legal as the top speed stays below the maximum legal speed for a quad. You will feel the difference in 0 to... 50 as the top speed is less impressive than the acceleration relative to be only 17 bhp in power. I had my Twizy turned now for over 4 years and it transformed the ride. You also get one pedal driving as you can adjust the regenerative braking to what you like increasing the range. Donuts in very wet condition no problem.
@bjorn as soon as possible do please hyundai ioniq5 or kia ev6 range test/1000km/charging test.. in our country Czech rep. we have mostly 50kW chargers limited to 125A only so discharged battery voltage is very important.. can you please always show in your videos voltage @20% state ?
Good sheeet, thanks! Degradation is an interesting topic as there are many variables. Age of the car is the least important. How linear is the degradation over time if other factors remain broadly the same?
I have 2019 M3P with 43k on it, I haven't done full capacity test but I regularly get 34kW out when I go from 100% to 50%. 95% AC charging. I don't have scan my tesla.
I see “regen” is more than double in this car comparing with McHammer. That will suggest a higher degree of city driving with many stop and go -> many small charge discharge cycles. Could that be a factor contributing to battery degradation as well? Cheers, and keep up good work!
Maybe I missed something; at approx 7:40 ''Scan-my-Tesla'' indicated: 71.4kwh nominal full pack; 77.8% full pack when new & 8.23% degradation Your results seems inline with this. Why not trusting the BMS? You also used 73kwh for a full pack new. Is that usable VS the 77.8 kwh? Where do you get the usable value for a new battery?
The average annual cold ambient temperature in Norway helps slowing down calendar life aging in Lithium NCA battery packs like the model 3 has In hotter climates the degradation can be worse, would be interesting to test how much % precise
Interesting that the first owner of this car only had it for a month, and then it was sold back to Tesla Norway, who owned it for more than a year before Marcusbil bought it. Who used it while it was owned by Tesla?
Wow you guys fast charge a lot. My 2016 P100D has 116,000 Km on it charged to 320mi when new now about 300. Prior to Covid my DC charging was 9% probably less now. I have ready access to superchargers but don't use them unnecessarily even though they are free. I make about $10/hr collecting free electricity which is not worth my time. I have done a few road trips of 500 or so miles but not recently. My daily use is 50-100 miles, on some days I will use all the range and even supercharge a little. I will super charge to get ample margin for what I need but no more. I supercharge for 10-15 minutes usually, more of course on a trip. I charge to 100% on rare occasions maybe once or twice a year. Most of my charging is done at home or at work on a Tesla HPWC at 72 Amps. I don't charge every day if it isn't necessary. I plan 10% or 30 miles of margin as a minimum but target 20% usually. I like even more when it is cold. I have been down to 7 mi and 10 mi once. Never less and never stuck. I have had 2 model S cars with about 200K Km of driving. Everyone's driving profile is different. My second Model S had 70 miles more range which made a big difference. When I got my first car there was one supercharger 8 stalls in a 100 mi radius. Now there are dozens in the same area. Charging is never a problem. I have waited once or twice for a charger.
From what I heard DC charging does not harm the battery as long as it is kept below 80 %. What degrades the battery is charging to 100 % daily, doesn't matter if it's DC or AC.
Typical misconception is that DC charging would affect a lot on degredation. That has fortunately only a little effect. Also charging to 100 % a lot is not bad at all if the full battery is discharged right after. What affects then? -Keeping the car long times in 80 - 100% or 0 - 50% is the main reason for degredation. Charging the battery to 100% every now and then is good for the battery as it evens out the cells (discharging the battery to 5 - 20 % does the same). So keep your batteries most of the time at 50 - 80 %! :)
There's quite a bit of difference in inefficiency. You had 22% overhead while this car had 13,6% (charged ac+dc / driven kwh). Effectively your model 3 had almost 250Wh/km average while that one had 10% lower (makes sense - same total charge while that one has 10% more km on odometer). Obviously it doesn't have to be all from charging.
Bjorn do you think the outside temperature affects how much available capacity the LR model 3 has? I’ve done two tests. First test, outside temp was a little below 0c preheated car for an hour before an uninterrupted drive. I was only able to use 62kwh before being nearly at 0. Was concerned it meant significant degradation. Later I conducted same test at 18c. Was able to use over 70kwh before running out. Really compounds winter range loss....higher consumption and lower available capacity. But my test method may have been poor.
How does the actual, measured degradation you calculated compare to what ABRP shows when you connect your Tesla to the App? Mine shows over 6% after only 14k km on ABRP but I do not have SmT to compare it. Can it be that ABRP reads the information including the 4,x% “overhead” that SmT also sees from the car’s computer?
I think 6.2% after first year is a bit high side, but remember that by far the most degradation happens in the first year. Second year is maybe 1% more, third year 0.5%. In other words, it's not linear, batteries tend to degrade less and less over time.
Very interesting results, I would expect less degradation than McHammer with less DC but it looks like supercharging is not the most important variable for degradation. I'm curious to know if you have measure the degradation on you 2013 Model S ? Maybe the degradation is mostly due to time and not charging habits ^^
The BMS is smart and knows to get good performance and good longevity. DC charging under harsh conditions, like very cold battery can degrade it. But the car can account for that and throttle the charging speed by a lot to prevent damage. Also, all new cars have thermal management in their packs so it's not as bad to fast charge in most circumstances because the bms manages the temperatures by cooling or heating the battery if needed. The bulk of the degradation comes from time and depending on the car, very low or very high SoC's for long periods of time.
@@bjornnyland I just realised I live in a world where only Mirrorless and Cine cameras exists. Thats a great camera you've got. Love your channel & Thanks for you reply
Björn, is it really about DC and AC or just about the C-Rate over time of which people are charging.... meaning I can charge loads of times on a 50 kW DC which is hardly pushing the battery, but if I do loads of motorway with 100+ kW it might do a lot more damage.....
Heat is the reason for degredation, not DC in itself. Tesla have great battery cooling, so it will cool down fast, after charging, only having heat when needed for fast charging.
Hello If you have NMC lithium battery it should go up daily to 90 or 95% If you have LFP lithium battery (SR+ MIC) then yes you can go to 100% and it'll have a higher cycles of charges and discharges. I have a NMC batt. And I charge it to 100% only on long trips. 90% daily. 52688 km and I have 72.1 kWh instead of 73 kWh. 3.8% degradation.
Depends on the car. Tesla? Yes, because Tesla doesn't have a top buffer as do other cars like e-Tron or Zoe. 90-10% shouldn't create any problem, as 80-20% would. I for one charge the car when it's convenient, so I wouldn't only charge the car when I'm at 20%.
@@cavramau no I’m talking about the actual amount of kW’s under acceleration or regen as a numeric value, not just the tiny little line in the Power Bar. I wasn’t asking about charging data.
@@thomasjacques5286 I run with Scan My Tesla auto started on my phone 2 minutes after the phone attaches to the car audio system. The power number changes very often. I think the thin line black to the right green to the left is smoothed. I would like to see a scale on the line. In my opinon, some things are best shown by a lagged analogue gauge.
Is it the age or the kilometers that is relevant for the degradation ? just asking because i got over 6000 kilometers in my car and i have not had it for a month yet. I am a long-distance commuters.
Björn please if I ad up total ac and dc charging and devide by total milage it looks like avarage consumption for LR is 220w/h and performance 240 w/h it is kind of high compare to my 146 w/h with same milage?
I drive a 7 year old 24Kw Leaf. After 80K on the meter, my SoH is reported as 82% and the car was ChAdeMO-d a lot in the first 3 years. Maybe it`s just me, but I expected a bit better from a managed battery on that Model 3, even if it did that many miles over 2 years.
So many great EV coming this year, but I think for now until the technology gets better, I will stick to my Gen.3 Prius. Absolutely non degradation of range in 9 years.... I literally would be forced to mostly DC charge and I would hate my Model 3 LR or EV6 GT-Line turn into a SR+ after just two years !
"I have to keep eating them bananas, because I need more banana box for bigger cars...."
:D
Made my day.
Keep up the good work!
When can we expect the Enyaq tested Bjorn?
Bjørn is on fire lately! REALLY loving his videos since corona-free! :) Cheers!
I had to check the title after seeing you in Leaf lol
Ha ha... Same here 😀
Bjørn is the hero we need!
Taking electric cars for 1000 km rides, day after day.
Also, he's so much more, well, human than all those serious & 'artificial' people in the well known car shows. Makes every kilowatthour(!) worth watching!
Hi from Delaware USA, I love your English. You speak like a movie star. Love the videos!!!
I'd love to see a degradation test on a car with average milage (15k km p/y) that was almost exclusively AC charged to 80% as i think most people certainly in irl/uk will charge at home at night and only do a couple of trips a year further than work
Time degrades batteries as well. So you’ll still see passive degradation.
@@ToreOnTH-cam yes
I have a Model S85 2013 with a new battery for 2 years now. I've done 50.000km (the car total is 250.000km) with it, when it was new I had about 71.6kwh nominal full pack, then 6 month later it was 73.7kwh, now 2 years later it's still 73.7kwh. I have a supercharger a few km away from my home, so I'm doing 100% supercharge with this car... most of the time I came with less than 5% after a 60km drive, so the battery is fairly empty and hot, when I charge it reaches 110-120kw then gradually decreases. I charge upto 80%. Never stays below 20% or above 80% for a long time. So basically, I don't think supercharging is actually aging the battery when you do it the right way.
I totally agree with your findings (Model S pre facelift). My one has 270000km with the first battery and has 9% degradation.
2/3 of it is supercharging, since I drive long distances. My one is a 70D only.
I have 2019 Long range and 80000km. On it. I was using superchargers every day even a few times a day. So, my degradation is 5,2-5,4% out here in Canada. I thought it’s a lot, because I was using a superchargers too often, but I guess it isn’t.. Great video, thank you for sharing.👍
Definitly try the Twizy. I got the same tune as well and its so much fun
Here in Finland they actually removed the 80kmh speed limit on trailers.
That's super cool! I think Belgium doesn't have any either
Hello Bjorn! What happened to the model 3 sr+? Weren't you going to do more tests with it?
If it was from China it would have been worth it... but it's from USA, it's predictable and boring.
He can come to denmark and test my sr+ mic
Thanks for the deep analysis and interesting numbers.
shook me all night looong!....great one...as always thank you for making the video, and waiting for the next one.
Would be really interesting to see a degradation test of a 64 kWh Kona. If you could find a very high mileage one would me most interesting. Because it seems that Kona's LG battery holds up really well (if it has not burned down lol) in terms of degradation. I have a 2018 Kona with 64k km and after logging with Car Scanner or Torque pro app it seems that still around 64 kWh is usable.
That car and eniro has a ~10% hidden buffer so you won`t notice the first 10% degradation
@@tellusw9701 I saw it mentioned somewhere and its 67kwh actually, so the buffer is notactually that big.
Still waiting for Twizy 1000 km challenge. Should be easy in this new, souped-up Twizy, right? (Edit: or maybe for Twizy it could be a 100 km challenge!)
Would be great to see a degradation test on a 2019 Model 3 SR+. Different battery size, potentially different charging habits, wonder what that looks like. Maybe Marcus has one of those?
This would be really great!
Agreed
I can hazard a guess and say the degradation will be much higher than on the LRs. 10-15 % is going to be the norm.
A comparison between the stereo of S+ and LR would be awsome. 😎🖖🏻
No need to because they are the same.
@@bjornnyland did they change that? S+ was lacking the subwoofer and some speakers 🤔
@@bjornnyland not according to Tesla
@@bjornnyland In your video "Checking battery in Model 3 SR+ with ScanMyTesla" ( th-cam.com/video/PIZZvKBoY_I/w-d-xo.html ) at the 4 minute mark, you bring up the Additional Vehicle Information window, which states "Audio System: Premium speakers, no external amplifier", which is the same as my 2020 SR+. As far as I understand from various Tesla forums this means, to my great disappointment, that my car does not have the subwoofer amp. Also, despite having all the premium speaker grilles, my car is missing some speakers. I thought originally my car had the full system, but using a torch / flashlight I can see there is nothing behind some of the grills.😢
The SR+ interior is described as "Upgraded audio - immersive sound" on Tesla's English Language web sites and "Oppgradert lyd - altoppslukende lyd" in Norway. That said, the audio system still sounds very good. If your car has the full "Premium-lyd - 14 høyttalere, 1 subwoofer, 2 forsterkere og altoppslukende lyd" of the dual motor models you're very lucky, so don't tell Tesla 😄
Hehehehe. You need to eat more banana because you need more banana box to test bigger cars 😂😂😂. (However, you right because skoda is big dude) 🤷
I would say the „nominal full pack“ value is only a guess. I‘m observing my Model 3 for a year now and it hovers around 70-71,8kWh. Can‘t see a clear correlation. Normally it‘s higher in summer 🤷🏼♂️
technically true but in practice its fairly accurate.
My 6 year old leaf is at 13% degradation, not bad for no active cooling. I suspect it’s twice as bad as a thermally controlled battery. What would be interesting is the extra expense of thermal cooled vs the impact to the driver for the first 10 years of ownership. Also the extra weight and possible servicing etc, I wonder in the future if density and cheap cost will mean simply adding more capacity cheap and hide the extra to pay the degradation. there will be a sweet spot of cost vs thermal control vs extra capacity balance.
That’s not bad, my 6 year old Kia Soul with 128.000 km has 33% degradation. Only fast charged a handful of times. Really bad battery on the first 27kw Soul EV, lots of people has over 30% degradation after 120-150k km
What's that on the right on 4:34? Looks like a Tesla supercharger but kinda different at the same time. Hmmm
What is expected loss after say 80-100k km if you have more than 95% homecharging, and almost never above 80% state of battery in comparison to this? Will it be possible to see half the loss of Mc Hammer and Marcus' bil?
Here LR RWD 2019. SMT
new 75,4 kWh
now 55.000 km, 73,9 kWh, 509 km
What is the meaning of SMT?
@@cavramau scan my tesla, diagnostics port
Bjorn, can you try to find a high mileage LFP SR+ to do a degradation test on?
@ 100% charge you should check nominal remaining, not nominal full pack. Today when i charged to 100% i got 72,5 nominal full pack, but 73,5kWh nominal remaining, thats why it indicates 101%. My car performance 2019-03 32000km
Got to say my Wife and I would like to come to Norway, we live in BC and Norway looks like an extension of BC Canada, lots of mountains, ocean etc but unlike BC, some really good roads and good EV infrastructure and good place to lease a car for our holidays at Marcusbil!
18:30
Thanks... now i cant get the song out of my head xD
And it'll stay there aaall night long. **groan**
(I'll let myself out. :D)
14:27 you are eating the banana from the right side 👍🏼😎
@@sk.43821 1. Most apes eat it from that side. Learn from the pros.
2. You can get rid of the tiny black thing at the blossom end while opening the banana
3. Better grip with the stem side in the hand
4. You save the best and perfect part for the end
5. You can use the shell as a trap, like they draw it in comics
💁♂️
The bastard cable 😂😂😂
maybe DC charging is not a key factor in degradation.... very interesting, its necessary to test more cars for better conclusions
Hey Bjørn, will you also make a test on Tesla's buffer? How much energy is still available when car shows 0%. And is this buffer a difference between 'Nominal full pack' and your measurement?
No need to test it. I have several videos in the past where I use the buffer.
Yes, it`s 3,2kWh after 0km in that car, risky business thou.
The Twizy tuning is legal as the top speed stays below the maximum legal speed for a quad. You will feel the difference in 0 to... 50 as the top speed is less impressive than the acceleration relative to be only 17 bhp in power. I had my Twizy turned now for over 4 years and it transformed the ride. You also get one pedal driving as you can adjust the regenerative braking to what you like increasing the range. Donuts in very wet condition no problem.
Please do more of these tests on other EVs. But interresting to see that degradation is only 1% less than my Leaf 2018.
52650 km
Now 72.1 kWh
It was 73 kWh
Model 3 LR mars 2020
Degradation 3.8%
Can u tell us how your charging habbits are :)?
@@SVLZNO mostly 50 kW DC fast chargers and fewer times on 11 kW AC wall connectors.
@bjorn as soon as possible do please hyundai ioniq5 or kia ev6 range test/1000km/charging test.. in our country Czech rep. we have mostly 50kW chargers limited to 125A only so discharged battery voltage is very important.. can you please always show in your videos voltage @20% state ?
Great video, love these tests!
Good sheeet, thanks! Degradation is an interesting topic as there are many variables. Age of the car is the least important. How linear is the degradation over time if other factors remain broadly the same?
When you experienced the drop in capacity on MC hammer, could that be tesla moving some capacity below 0%? Accounting for some of the "degradation"?
Glad you are well. I'd give gold for having you testing a Dacia Spring (!). That would be a minimum 50k viewers ...
I have 2019 M3P with 43k on it, I haven't done full capacity test but I regularly get 34kW out when I go from 100% to 50%. 95% AC charging. I don't have scan my tesla.
I see “regen” is more than double in this car comparing with McHammer. That will suggest a higher degree of city driving with many stop and go -> many small charge discharge cycles. Could that be a factor contributing to battery degradation as well? Cheers, and keep up good work!
Maybe I missed something; at approx 7:40 ''Scan-my-Tesla'' indicated:
71.4kwh nominal full pack; 77.8% full pack when new & 8.23% degradation
Your results seems inline with this. Why not trusting the BMS?
You also used 73kwh for a full pack new. Is that usable VS the 77.8 kwh?
Where do you get the usable value for a new battery?
Yeah keep eating bananas to get more Banana boxes 😂🐵 you should do a Banana Box Test of a euro shipping container 🤓🥳
17:33 420.2kWh? Did you mean 420.2km?
The average annual cold ambient temperature in Norway helps slowing down calendar life aging in Lithium NCA battery packs like the model 3 has
In hotter climates the degradation can be worse, would be interesting to test how much % precise
Interesting that the first owner of this car only had it for a month, and then it was sold back to Tesla Norway, who owned it for more than a year before Marcusbil bought it. Who used it while it was owned by Tesla?
probably a loaner for people who had theirs on maintenance
Wow you guys fast charge a lot. My 2016 P100D has 116,000 Km on it charged to 320mi when new now about 300. Prior to Covid my DC charging was 9% probably less now. I have ready access to superchargers but don't use them unnecessarily even though they are free. I make about $10/hr collecting free electricity which is not worth my time. I have done a few road trips of 500 or so miles but not recently. My daily use is 50-100 miles, on some days I will use all the range and even supercharge a little. I will super charge to get ample margin for what I need but no more. I supercharge for 10-15 minutes usually, more of course on a trip. I charge to 100% on rare occasions maybe once or twice a year. Most of my charging is done at home or at work on a Tesla HPWC at 72 Amps. I don't charge every day if it isn't necessary. I plan 10% or 30 miles of margin as a minimum but target 20% usually. I like even more when it is cold. I have been down to 7 mi and 10 mi once. Never less and never stuck. I have had 2 model S cars with about 200K Km of driving. Everyone's driving profile is different. My second Model S had 70 miles more range which made a big difference. When I got my first car there was one supercharger 8 stalls in a 100 mi radius. Now there are dozens in the same area. Charging is never a problem. I have waited once or twice for a charger.
Hi Bjorn am in N.E.Thailand and looking for updates on EVs here in English.
Any suggestions please?
Thanks Douglas
From what I heard DC charging does not harm the battery as long as it is kept below 80 %. What degrades the battery is charging to 100 % daily, doesn't matter if it's DC or AC.
what is the app you use and how to you connect it to the car ?
Has the charging speed/curve degraded too?
1000 km challenge in the Twizzy! 😁
Twizy road trip to North Cape in winter. 😂
I have 72,000km on my Model 3 LR RWD with NO DC fast charging and i have the same degradation
@2:17 Those headlights are definitely not alliged properly :O
Typical misconception is that DC charging would affect a lot on degredation. That has fortunately only a little effect. Also charging to 100 % a lot is not bad at all if the full battery is discharged right after.
What affects then? -Keeping the car long times in 80 - 100% or 0 - 50% is the main reason for degredation. Charging the battery to 100% every now and then is good for the battery as it evens out the cells (discharging the battery to 5 - 20 % does the same). So keep your batteries most of the time at 50 - 80 %! :)
Source: th-cam.com/video/SfE3bTRe3v8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=PlugLifeTelevision
There's quite a bit of difference in inefficiency. You had 22% overhead while this car had 13,6% (charged ac+dc / driven kwh). Effectively your model 3 had almost 250Wh/km average while that one had 10% lower (makes sense - same total charge while that one has 10% more km on odometer). Obviously it doesn't have to be all from charging.
Bjorn do you think the outside temperature affects how much available capacity the LR model 3 has? I’ve done two tests. First test, outside temp was a little below 0c preheated car for an hour before an uninterrupted drive. I was only able to use 62kwh before being nearly at 0. Was concerned it meant significant degradation. Later I conducted same test at 18c. Was able to use over 70kwh before running out. Really compounds winter range loss....higher consumption and lower available capacity. But my test method may have been poor.
Bjørn, speaking of bigger cars, could you please ask about e-Ducato, it might be out in days..
How does the actual, measured degradation you calculated compare to what ABRP shows when you connect your Tesla to the App? Mine shows over 6% after only 14k km on ABRP but I do not have SmT to compare it. Can it be that ABRP reads the information including the 4,x% “overhead” that SmT also sees from the car’s computer?
I compare to what I could actually get when the battery was new. ABRP and Scan My Tesla looks at the variable Full Pack When New which is misleading.
8%? Thats nice.. My 2020 M3 LR has 6,2% degradation after 10.000 km/1 year according to teslamate.
I think 6.2% after first year is a bit high side, but remember that by far the most degradation happens in the first year. Second year is maybe 1% more, third year 0.5%. In other words, it's not linear, batteries tend to degrade less and less over time.
Very interesting results, I would expect less degradation than McHammer with less DC but it looks like supercharging is not the most important variable for degradation. I'm curious to know if you have measure the degradation on you 2013 Model S ? Maybe the degradation is mostly due to time and not charging habits ^^
The BMS is smart and knows to get good performance and good longevity. DC charging under harsh conditions, like very cold battery can degrade it. But the car can account for that and throttle the charging speed by a lot to prevent damage. Also, all new cars have thermal management in their packs so it's not as bad to fast charge in most circumstances because the bms manages the temperatures by cooling or heating the battery if needed. The bulk of the degradation comes from time and depending on the car, very low or very high SoC's for long periods of time.
I wonder if the speed of fast charging matters. Charging at 50KW (or less?) vs 300KW might have an impact but both count as DC right?
How can I check my battery cap. ? Now possible only with only an app? No need extra hardware?
th-cam.com/video/PIZZvKBoY_I/w-d-xo.html
Is the nominal full pack of the Lange range awd wasn’t 75kw? Björn calculate with 73kw...
You mixed kW and kWh. And I measure actual energy pulled out, not estimated energy from BMS. Big difference.
Which camera are you using that has that nd filter swapping? Sony fs?
Canon HF G60
@@bjornnyland I just realised I live in a world where only Mirrorless and Cine cameras exists. Thats a great camera you've got. Love your channel & Thanks for you reply
What is the lifetime efficiency on MC hammer vs the long range? That makes a fairly big difference in the amount of cycles on the battery.
Björn, is it really about DC and AC or just about the C-Rate over time of which people are charging.... meaning I can charge loads of times on a 50 kW DC which is hardly pushing the battery, but if I do loads of motorway with 100+ kW it might do a lot more damage.....
I think you may be right
Now I know that "bil" means car in Norwegian. Perhaps comes from automoBILe?
We also use «Kjøretøy» it means vehicle in English and fahrzeug in German.
I learned Norwegian and never thought about this. Thanks!
Heat is the reason for degredation, not DC in itself. Tesla have great battery cooling, so it will cool down fast, after charging, only having heat when needed for fast charging.
I think i Belgium and France you're allowed 130kmh with a trailer
Yeah they removed the 80kmh limit here in Finland too.
Max speed in Belgium is 120 km/h, trailer less then 3500 kg may ride 120 km/h else max 90 km/h
@@Vanhool5941 still fast af
bjorn, will it lessen degradation of we keep the battery between 20 to 80% charge versus 100%?
Hello
If you have NMC lithium battery it should go up daily to 90 or 95%
If you have LFP lithium battery (SR+ MIC) then yes you can go to 100% and it'll have a higher cycles of charges and discharges.
I have a NMC batt. And I charge it to 100% only on long trips.
90% daily.
52688 km and I have 72.1 kWh instead of 73 kWh.
3.8% degradation.
Depends on the car. Tesla? Yes, because Tesla doesn't have a top buffer as do other cars like e-Tron or Zoe.
90-10% shouldn't create any problem, as 80-20% would. I for one charge the car when it's convenient, so I wouldn't only charge the car when I'm at 20%.
Yes.
Yes
I see, this is good to know:)
I wish Tesla would add some of the data (that SMT displays) to the POWER BAR such as the number of kW's being pulled or pushed back into the battery.
It is shown graphically.
@@cavramau no I’m talking about the actual amount of kW’s under acceleration or regen as a numeric value, not just the tiny little line in the Power Bar. I wasn’t asking about charging data.
@@thomasjacques5286 I run with Scan My Tesla auto started on my phone 2 minutes after the phone attaches to the car audio system. The power number changes very often. I think the thin line black to the right green to the left is smoothed. I would like to see a scale on the line. In my opinon, some things are best shown by a lagged analogue gauge.
Is it the age or the kilometers that is relevant for the degradation ? just asking because i got over 6000 kilometers in my car and i have not had it for a month yet. I am a long-distance commuters.
10:14
I see that the Model 3 on the screen has wheels without an aero caps. Is there an option that you can change that?
That's what's under the aero caps when you remove them.
Interesting test. Thanks
Björn please if I ad up total ac and dc charging and devide by total milage it looks like avarage consumption for LR is 220w/h and performance 240 w/h it is kind of high compare to my 146 w/h with same milage?
Did you mean w/k? Oops you and I both meant Whr/km. Energy used to drive a km not power per whatever.
Yes w/km
1000km challange in Twizy ^^
I drive a 7 year old 24Kw Leaf. After 80K on the meter, my SoH is reported as 82% and the car was ChAdeMO-d a lot in the first 3 years. Maybe it`s just me, but I expected a bit better from a managed battery on that Model 3, even if it did that many miles over 2 years.
What does SoH mean?
@@cavramauState of Health
What is the application called that you use with OBD dongle? Thx
Scan My Tesla. Check video description.
This clip told in conclusion, no different between low and Hi power charger at least upto 80k+ km.
My understanding is that it's not so much that charging to 100% is bad, it's more that keeping it at 100% is bad.
The twizy is promising!
Bjorn, how many km of range was showing at 100% soc?
-8%
Definitely my type of car too :)
Be careful pulling out prematurely. You'll get electrons all over you
8% seems like a ton for a Tesla...
Maybe this car had seen more 0% soc or 100% soc.
I really hope Bjørn doesn't go into my garage and see my dodgy illegal EV Adapter lead... ... ...
Notification squad
I hear Björn talking to me in my sleep... I watch too much yt....
So many great EV coming this year, but I think for now until the technology gets better, I will stick to my Gen.3 Prius.
Absolutely non degradation of range in 9 years....
I literally would be forced to mostly DC charge and I would hate my Model 3 LR or EV6 GT-Line turn into a SR+ after just two years !
🤔
who eats a banana from the end?
th-cam.com/video/tvKiHElHIIc/w-d-xo.html
1st