Aviloo automatic battery degradation tester w/TÜV certificate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
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This system is a game changer for the used car market. We needed this, and here it is. Very nice! Not only for car markets, but also for owners that thinks there is something wrong with the battery, but their workshops says it’s fine. Now you can get an independent test to give to your dealership/workshop if they refuse to fix within warranty.
Yes! Exactly the situation I find myself in with my 2016 Kia Soul. Range is dropping but Kia dealership test states it’s 73%. Have ordered the Aviloo test.
Nice! A degradation report should be required in all used EV sales.
Seems like a good first attempt at an unified test for degradation.
I'd really like to see you compare the test to your own degradation test to see what differences there are. Especially since it's trying to be universally comparable between different brands and models.
Great video! :)
Brilliant. So many Ioniqs reporting 100% SoH after 100,000 km or more, which is physically impossible.
It would be interesting to see the true versus reported SoH average for each brand/model compared against eachother.
That is of course if the device ID more precise than the Ioniq test
As far as i understood, SoH is a parameter to define the percentage of cells reported damaged or malfunctioning. Says nothing about your degradation (which is just the amount of charge each cell can hold) cell can be degraded, without actually being damaged. SoH can be 100% even with some degradation.
I would love to see how the classic Ioniq stands up!
It could be they took the value of initial battery capacity too high.
It is physically impossible regarding the total battery capacity built into the car. But Hyundai and Kia both declare battery capacity lower than the total built into the car so it’s possible to declare 100% of declared capacity. They use the ‘buffer’ capacity to compensate for lost capacity.
Bjørn, I woud love to see you do 2 tests with the tool connected using the same car and compare you findings:
1) do your standard degredation test (the ideal test)
2) do another degradation test where you trash the car so there's a maximum of heat and energy loss (the worst test)
Challenge is ON and I am excited to see the results !!!
Do it Bjorn! I want to see this test! Great exposure for Aviloo also.
Very intrested in testing their measuring method and compare it with yours. I would love to see this happen.
Thanks for the info you are the best when it comes to testing out electric cars!
They should give you one of these devices - along with a 'T' piece for interconnecting to the car's system - so you can also run your own devices. Would love to see the differences between the numbers.
I am waiting the video with the comparation between your test and the device!! Good job for all of your videos!
challenge accepted, thanks wolfgang , looks like a great product. your work is appreciated!
Great explanation of the Aviloo test, thanks.
Yes, running the Aviloo test while you do your own Ninja calculations would be very interesting, please do it.
Yes, please do that test, it would be really interesting to compare the results
Bjørn, I would love to see the results from your testing compared to this service. This truly is a great concept that should help the used EV market. I hope they will provide it in the US and Canada.
Please do a practical test of this device and compare with your own Bjorn Test values for the same vehicle.
So cool! Just as a house comes with an energy efficiency certificate (in the UK), so all EV s should come with a certificare of degradation and SOC. This could be included in the annual safety test. Bjorn, you need this and access to the data base! Thanks. A, B C - Always Be Certificating!
This is a very interesting and useful service for anyone buying or selling a second hand EV. 👍
Do the practical test Bjørn! Verify them!
Fantastic, thanks Bjorn and Wolfgang. This will help to ease the hesitancy of fossil heads to make the transition to EVs.
Great interview! I Would love to see this in North America
As of July 2022, it looks like it's available in all EU markets plus Norway. Not apparently in the UK. Hopefully they can find a partner here and solve any trade barrier issues if that's the hold-up.
really loooking forward for the test
Very curious to see the results of a classic Ioniq with this test… together with a certified Teslabjørn test
Very cool, would love to see your comparisons!
I look forward to seeing how the LFP Tesla Model 3 SR+ will hold up in these kind of tests.
Exactly, not touching any EV cars until LFP are standard. They are so simple to maintain and replace, I wonder how come it's only popular in Asia, and we are left with this mess of having almost unserviceable thousands of tiny cells In a super crammed pack...
@@terrencesauve
It's quite simple:
LFP packs are heavier (since they have lower energy density) and they are far more temperature sensitive than other chemistries.
Sodium battery packs are the next evolution, but they also have their issues.
@@rolandrohde I didn't knew that LFP packs were more sensitive to temperature. Do they degrade quicker at lower or higher temps than li-ion? Cold temps have been an issue in Tesla's in Canada. Heat pumps were failing left and right, and fog in the windshield is a major safety issue.
I'm wondering if LFPs would degrade at low temperatures, or would loose much more DOD capacity than li-ion. Thanks!
@@terrencesauve
They don't take any damage in cold weather or cause other issues. The heat pump problem had a different cause.
What LFP suffers from in cold weather is lower available capacity and slower charging. This means you need to invest more energy into heating up the LFP pack before charging and have less range in winter.
On the plus side...in Summer the LFP Pack needs less cooling and is generally more robust
Really great Product really easy to use and fast shipping and response. Highly recommend it. Thanks for the Video.
Exciting! High mileage ID.3 degradation test please Bjorn 🙌
Awesome! I´would be very keen to see the results. Especially the difference between the "ninja" and the aviloo approach. This the important issue being or selling an EV!
Yea that sounds like a good plan to try that device and do your own deg test and see how close or far apart it will be at the end of it , it as to be done for science .
Yeah, I’ve seen those tests on Carla’s site. And while I love the concept of them being transparent about the battery SoH, i’ve also been skeptical of the accuracy. In general they seem a bit pessimistic, and I have often thought I would probably be able to squeeze more out of those batteries if I were given a chance to test it.
But at least I don’t think Carla is overpromising the condition of their cars, so that’s good.
However it would be super interesting if you would be able to test it properly. It this method as reliable in all driving conditions? Different results when stopping at 10% or going all the way to shut down? How big is the spread in results in several consecutive tests? Pretty random or the same? Are the errors biased in any direction? A lot to do here, but I would watch the hell of these videos;)
According to the test reports on Carla's site it seems like Tesla batteries degrade much faster than other ev car brands. I wonder if that can be true taking the long ev experience that tesla has into consideration. Also the advanced bms / battery heating and cooling should keep the batteries from Tesla in a good state. I wonder if there is something in Aviloos algorithms that is not final.
@@janb2992 tesla has no top buffer. Thats why
I love that the EV industry is now taking charge of its own future - not relying on adaptation of ICE infrastructure. Used cars sales will include battery SOH instead of just distance driven. As dealers and back street garages make the change to EVs the true value of EV will become apparent. Making it easy is the key.
That's why I'll be waiting for a truck that would be using the larger prismatic LFP cells. When the true value of the old packs and older cars will come out, many will be left with an "empty" shell. That won't happen if you can replace and test your own LFP prismatic cells in your 8 yr old car/truck.
I've seen the testnumber at Carla for a while now and been questioning the high degradation they have. For example a Model 3 performance, 16.000km that have 89% left.
It would be really interesting if you could test a brand new tesla with this device, because I don't think any tesla will get near 100%, or they degrade REALLY fast. Something is not right
OTH, Kias and Hyundais at Carla have very low degradation. I wonder if that is because of difference in usage. People driving long distances and often do fast charging buy Teslas, people seldom driving long distances buy Kia..?
@@altoclef6688 low degradation compare to what? Range? Years?
Driving less isn't good for battery either...depending what percentage of charge it was on
Tesla makes 100% of the battery available, so they will show degradation sooner than cars like the e-Niro that do have a buffer.
Also depends on the accuracy of the initial capacity value. If the initial capacity of the battery is not disclosed by the OEM (like at Tesla), they have to measure it in a new vehicle. There might be some variation across all vehicles with the same make/model. So if they pick the value of initial capacity too high, all degradation tests will show a degradation that is too high.
Out of the box, like batteries in laptop, you never get "100%" of the design specs. Different companies will calibrate the packs in the BMS and that is what you should try to get when you drive your first 1000 km. It's only a reference point. The device will probably try to read the calibration voltage of each series in the pack and then calculate how much each series can discharge (and recharge) down. It would be more interesting to see where the degradation is located rather than having a flat #. If there would be any type of servicing possible, then you could just replace the pack in the series that has one or possibly two dead cells. Hope this makes sense, I have played a bit with making my own packs for a UPS.
This product is currently used in Autoweek magazine tests in The Netherlands. Just as you mention a couple of times, the amount of degradation appears to be a little high in all cases according to what I would expect. I am very interested in this product and I’m curious about comparisons between the product and manual tests like you are performing them. Could you please partner up with them 😀?!
That absolutely needs testing! Especially on Teslas since the numbers seem way higher than I've seen elsewhere...
Yes please, I think you should use this device, while driving.
Sometimes you can just have it plugged in from 100% to 10%, while doing other stuff.
Other times you can do your degradation calculations as well, to to compare.
Do the test. 🙂 it's interesting to see if it's really a thing we can trust.
In fact you could use it on every degradation test.
Don't forget to test it with a brand new vehicle also. Its interesting if it will show 100% SOH or more.
We allways test brand new vehicles, some have more kWh than promised some have less and for some the OEM data given is correct.
Nice information, I think you should test the device Bjorn
Test it please! Would make life so much easier.
You should also compare Aviloo test vs Leaf Spy SoH. Seems like Aviloo don’t support all brands. I hope they include more brands (Honda e) in the future.
Yes, that would be a nice test. 👍
Would be nice for regulators to require something standard like this for all EV manufacturers. Also, my initial reaction to this was “battery degradation on EVs is scary and complex”, but ICE vehicles can lose power over time / mileage depending on use and maintenance too, so at least with EVs you can get useful information over OBDII to hint to how it was cared for before buying used.
Very cool. I guess that the exemplary results shown were from product tests with rental EVs, as they probably don't have their own fleet. And rental EVs tend to be DC charged a lot and also are often left somewhere at 100% SoC, thus the high degradation.
Hoping you will test this device.
Very nice video! We will bring an Aviloo box with us on our trip trought Africa!
good improvement of the interview from middle on
Very good for selling an used car.
But I'm quite ceptic if OEM's will accept this test (or any other than their own), if there is the need to claim warranty on the battery. And actually, this would be for me, one of the most useful uses of such independent test/certificate.
The certificate has helped drivers to get their warranty claim accepted. Its a strong argument.
Capacity estimation is highly dependent on discharge speed (which is super variable & hard to control in an EV-driving test) - wondering if the analysis (both the Aviloo product and Bjorn's own tests) somehow account for this in their estimates? I'd be super interested in seeing the variety of values you'd get from running multiple tests under different conditions (e.g. city driving vs highway driving).
Yes
Test of some new cars would be very interesting:) to get a feeling for the "out of box" capacity...
First thoughts: Nah, I can do it easily by myself. At the end of this video: using this test makes totally sense 😎 please do a comprehension between your Ninja-Test and this one. Would be totally interesting.
Cost of test, and U.S availability? If not, when?
Is the explanation of high degradation in that Tesla something to do with the fact that Tesla have a buffer under 0% and nothing on top of 100% while other brands have something on top of 100% or/and both? In that way, there is always - 5% ish not visible. Obviously, we do not know their algorithm but is hard to believe that high figure unless someone really abused the battery. So, a back to back test comparison will be interesting. No matter what, I find this idea/service really interesting - thumbs up to Aviloo.
BTW: did you know that if you connect your Tesla to ABRP they also do a battery degradation estimation (no premium needed)?
Not true. Tesla has an initial 2 kWh fresh battery buffer at least in Model S/X. I haven't seen it in 3/Y yet. I have pointed out this in many of my range test videos.
@@bjornnyland the car in question here was an M3 and maybe there is some kind of buffer on top explaining difference between gross and net. However, that was not my main point on the topic. If they measure energy linear considering 0% is ZERO, I see the source for such high degradation shown.
Do you know any details about the degradation estimation made by ABRP? It’s shown 2,7% on a M3 LR (34k and 1,5 years old) with the first LG pack and that seems to match with some of my estimations based on your methods but also based on another app I’m using.
I think that the kWh number as new is to high. Since it is to high, it will also give you a high degradation. 13% seems alot for a car with so low milage.
@@sthaukeb I believe it all comes down to use. If you often hammer it and often DC charge, the battery will suffer.
yes very nice. you really need to make a comparison :))
Must see how the classic Ioniq is doing! It's apparently so good at everything - is it real?
Would be good if you a parallel run of what the box is saying and your calculation and if it takes into account various battery sizes of models done within certain years.
Interesting!👍
Very interesting!
Wow cool little gadget there, 👍👍
Arvillo please add a usb and usb power pass through connector to so with say with a paid software download from your site we can then do mobile /iPad checks as well as 3rd party checking for older devices is essential
Veramente molto molto interessante!!!!
Can it also test PHEVs?
Very interesting video 👍
This will be awesome
The certificate is a first good step, but I realy miss the information about charging cycles, AC vs. DC charging, etc. on the certificate ! Do you get any other info as a result of the testing ?
Do every car brand actually record this info?
I'd like to see you go head to head with Aviloo in a test
Very good, but could Aviloo give a degradation curve by makers/models? It could be very interestings!
Number of DC charges and how many KWh from DC charges would be nice in the report, also numbers from AC charges
ALSO do some of your degragtion tests while the Aviloo is in the same car.
Even better get one for yourself an put it in everycar you test in the future It might give Aviloo the "Ninja validated" quality stamp :D So we all can trust them !
Number of AC and DC charges is interesting but ultimately doesnt tell you much about the degradation.
@@aviloo9024 And contrary to common belief is that DC fast charging seems to make the degradation slower rather than faster.
Very interesting
Testing VW ID car would be interesting. Volkswagen claims 82 kWh gross and 77 kWh net capacity, while Aviloo assumes 72kWh as actually usable 100-0% SOC (Aktuell Nutzbar 100-0% SOC), difference between net capacity and actually usable is considered Emergency Reserve (Notreserve) by Aviloo, not counted when calculating SOH (for Aviloo net capacity is from 100% SOC until car stops). Aviloo's SOH estimate is therefore based on 72 kWh actually usable capacity in VW ID 82 kWh (this detailed explanation from Aviloo was recently quoted on goingelectric German forum, thread Skoda Enyaq iV - Probleme & Lösungen). Basically correct, cars should not be driven below 0% SOC.
You may have hidden the VIN of the vehicles on the certificates but you can find them through the QR code on them...
Great idea for people to get a health check of battery, especially when you going to sell the car.
Bjørn do the test and beat the AI with your Ninjaskills 👍😀
Great Device for people that are not Björn 🙂
I wonder why there is a rather big discrepancy between Bjorn tests and Aviloo. any thoughs on that?
What do they do with the data once the tests have been done, do they anonymously save the data to then give access to the trends on different car batteries to the public or private companies.
We use the data to continously improve our algorithm.
Are you aware if they have a dealer in Canada & US? My friend would be interested to run the test! Doesnt seem by looking at their website.
Working on Canada & US. Will take some time though. Wolfgang
@@aviloo9024 thanks for your response! For some electronic components, TUV is recognized as a conformity assessment body in Canada. Check with Standards Council of Canada. If they aren't listed for your product, you can check with our popular CAB, such as Underwriters Laboratory or CSA Group. Very interesting product, good luck!
@@terrencesauve Thanks Terrence, is CAB widley know with consumers in Canada?
@@MrWolfgang100 Hi Herr Berger! CAB stands for Conformity Assessment Body. These are recognized organisations under ISO 17025 to conduct product and lab testing in your country. TüV is a CAB in Germany and may also be recognized in Canada by Standards Council Of Canada for electrical devices (depends on their scope). Call them first to see if they can also certify your device for the Canadian market. If you have more questions regarding market in Canada, contact Nadine at the Canadian German Chamber of Commerce in Toronto and she will hook you up with the proper contacts. I also have contacts for the EV Club in Ottawa that would be interested to know more about your testing certificates for the EV battery packs. Good luck!
Please go for it
great stuff!
Is that a Kewet Buddy in the background? Do they still make them? I had a Kewet El-Jet 4.
A nice concept. However, I would be concerned about the transparency of the whole process. Unless the testing procedure is clearly documented in detail and can be reproduced without their custom equipment, cloud connection, etc. there is no guarantee that the result you are getting is actually correct and objective. The reason is that if the company which operates those devices chooses to be evil, they can silently skew any particular result in any direction without anyone noticing.
The system is TÜV certified and they are really strict. TüV is the most reputation Testing and Inspection company.
@@MrWolfgang100 I assume that the certification applies to their testing procedure itself, its soundness, etc. This is all OK. However, what I am concerned about is not the soundness of the definition of the testing procedure itself. I am concerned about its practical application and the ability of the company to skew the results if they choose to do so.
Unless there is some kind of external control and transparency in the entire process and unless it can be verified by an independent 3rd party without custom black box tools and without a custom cloud API, there is no way to ensure that the certified testing process was actually used when obtaining a particular result for a particular car.
Niko CTO AVILOO: every year we are recertified and have to proove that we are working correctly as well as all our processes. so there is no possibility of manupulation. and even if. we want to help the people all the million of EV owners that are unsatisfied cause of the rejected gurantee. we already helped many people by finding battery problems that the garage did not find or helped them with our certificate to get the battery changed cause of too high degradation. thx for your issue
I agree they should at least explain how they calculate SOH. What parameters they actually use via OBDII and the formulas (at least in general) so that we can trust how they measure kWh so that we can trust what they do. This is essential because if they don’t explain their procedure it’s back to square one: like OEM we don’t know how they compute SOH, this is the same if they don’t say how they compute SOH beside saying: « we analyse a bunch of data ». This is not enough they should say what they do exactly so that we trust them.
@@JeanPierreLavoie yes, this would of course be a separate in depth video, but I agree. We want to know more!
Interesting device, but the report should clearly state if the degradation is in the good, normal or bad state... preferrably like a scale so customers directly can see if its a good purchase.
We can do that later when the sample size is big enough to calculate a meaningfull average. Wolfgang
@@aviloo9024 I have a Mitsubishi imiev in Sint Maarten. Would you send a tester if I apply? There are 5 imievs that are degrading. We want to ship our cars to a dealership for testing only if we are sure they will replace under warranty which expires 2023. Can you help?
You need to compare how accurate it is.
I have taken this Aviloo test on my Model X from 2017 with 152K KM and 18% degredation as a result. With scan my tesla app I calculated a degradation of 12% so there is difference in testing from driving and testing with the BMS data/scan my tesla app. Link of the (Dutch) test video: th-cam.com/video/BpRKi1Mp2jI/w-d-xo.html
So witch of the apps reads better or is more acurate?
I don’t think this test is taking the low end buffer for Tesla into account. On the certificate it says 100-0% but you can take Teslas below zero.
We should *not* use anything below 0 % for obvious reasons.
Niko CTO AVILOO: of course we know about the low end buffer. but for the SoH we defined that we only take into account the "usable" energy between 100 and 0 %. WHY? well many other car types you cant drive below zero. and many people dont eant to drive below zero. therefore we decided to go this way. an most people like this solution. thx for your comment!!!
@@nikolausmayerhofer8058 then the calculation for the Model S seems wrong, could you say more about this? Do you use the "new" km value from Tesla, or do you use a value based on that but without the buffer under 0 ? I see 73,5 kWh usable on the paper but i cant see if its a 90 or 85 ether way 90% does not ad up to both, as the 85 has about 73 new and the 90 has about 77 new without the buffer under 0%
me wants to see moah, I know I'm going to need this in the future
You should strike a deal so you car use this on all your tests, not to replace your method, but to easily get a 2nd opinion that others can replicate.
It would be interesting for you to gain repeatability and change over time of both tests in the same car as it ages.
As I always say never buy something before is ABC ( Always Bjorn Checked) . So in my opinion this the degradation test on that M3LR which shows 87% , it actually shows the flaws of this device, because people will hook it up on the car and drive normally and the device reads the current out only and if the user hammers the car the current lost in battery heat is not accounted for. When you (Bjorn) test it like a ninja you take care not to hammer it, drive it at 90km/h so no high power discharge which can account in battery heat loss. So that’s why in my opinion the high degradation. And also I have a question, in Teslas there is a buffer under the 0% mark which the device doesn’t account for, right? Because it measures 100-0% which result a -3 kwh under the 0% which they are not taken in consideration. I would like to have your view about this matter Bjorn if my logic is correct and under the 0% is also not taken in consideration so it contributes further to the degradation count. Thank you!
I haven’t tested a Tesla of any sort, but my car, Hyundai Ioniq 5, have two different SOC readouts to the OBD2 reader. That’s is, when my car says 0% SOC, the BMS can say something like 4,5% left.
Interesting that you start the test by charging to 100%, what happens if you can't because a fault in the battery pack prevents charging to 100%? Do you just charge as high as it can go, then start the test? Or does it not then work?
So how much would the box itself cost?
Surely there’s more money in selling these at a lower price, so it would be a no-brainer for every EV owner to buy one rather than making them so expensive, only car dealerships can afford them or making them rent-based for consumers.
Also, if I were Aviilo, I’d subsidize the lower price by selling the used battery data to battery and car manufacturers so they can improve their battery packs, since all the data is run through their servers anyway!
But that’s just my free advice!
In my opinion, getting these in the hands of as many owners as possible would not only help the consumer be more aware of how they treat their battery.
Generating as much data as possible could really help the entire industry develop better batteries!
If Aviloo can do this... why not get all car manufacturers to follow the same calculation and report proper SOH since they clearly already have all the data.
Kinda hard to get car manufacturers to agree on anything... and no they don't have the battery data in +10 Hz frequency.
Is there a way for me to check the pdf validity of the certificate? Because a car dealer could forge an aviloo pdf.
Any chance of getting one of these in the USA? I want to try it out on our 2018 leaf.
Niko CTO AVILOO: yes we try to offer our product as well in the US. the trial run in the US was working fine.
@@nikolausmayerhofer8058 thank you. I submitted in inquiry on the website, but I can't tell if it was sent. The language didn't stat in English so I'm wondering if it was successful.
16:38 BEV with 43k km, 3 years old and SoH of 100% ?!
Either physical/chemical limits have been broken here, or it's a brand new battery, or the device is reading weirdly.
Buffer
@@bjornnyland It will be so, but then the individual manufacturers/battery packs cannot be directly compared with this measurement method. At least not with the simplified SoH statement.
This device definitely needs a review from the battery ninja ;)
test the 2 methods to see which is more accurate
Glad to be driving en e-Niro :)
Available in belgium or not?
99€
Yes, you can order it online and soon it will be available with workshops from LKQ.
Always ABC: AB testing Cooperation! Ninja vs Austrian precision
Since its Tuv certified I imagine it could be used in lawsuits against car manufacturers regardig the 8 year waranties
TÜV-certified is just a marketing gimmick. It is of absolutely no value, because TÜV certifies whatever you want when you give them money.
Understandable, how would a person even measure the capacity so that is official
well Tüv certified is much better than an alibaba dongle and some estimation on the calculator.
@@whuzzzup this is absolute true, you can by anything you want from TÜV
Excellent battery in the e-Niro.
How to convince a seller that he should charge his car to 100% and then drive until 10%? When I want to buy a car I don't have possibility to force seller to charge to 100% or fast charger on site. He will say it is not recommanded and then what?
Someone should do two or three tests on the same vehicle. To test the test 🥸🤓
Has been done many times.
@@aviloo9024 where?