There is a somewhat recent video from Jeff Dahn about this very subject, and LFP was subject to higher degradation when charged to 100%. LFP suffers from partly a very flat charge curve vs cell voltage so there is merrit to charge packs with chemsitry like this to 100% more often than for example NMC/NCA. However it is still not advised as a daily routine.
I don't think most people know this info is out there. I saw Engineering Explained recently did a video on the LFP and appears to be referencing Jeff's work. Most of us have had it engrained in our heads that LFP is the way to go and that it is the million mile battery. Jeff clearly states how to get that million mile battery, but it isn't today's LFP's! LOL This info needs to get out there and people need to change their charging habits.
I believe lfp batteries degrade more quickly early in their life and then flatten out, unlike other chemistries that are more constant in their degradation rate.
@@markstephandoscar634 They do degrade more quickly at first, but you will see if you look up Dr Dahn's work the degradation is still going to continue and they do degrade faster because of the BMS issues and charging to 100%. They think they have a chemistry change that helps and that is likely what CATL and BYD have been talking about with recent LFP battery announcements. Still too soon to know if this really fixes the problem. It is a TBD. We were given a lot of marketing that LFP was the million mile battery, but does not appear to be the case with the current tech sold. Looks like they are hot on the trail to fix this.
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100% is a must in order to both balance cells and reset coulomb counting. However, it's enough to do it from time to time. For example, once a month. Not weekly and, of course, not always as Tesla said at the beginning.
2021 M3 LFP with 65kkm here. Scan my Tesla reports 7.6 % degradation; 62/38 % AC/DC Charging, often charged to 100 % as recommended. Since some weeks I now only charge it to 50 % daily and top up to 75 % when I need to drive longer (~2x per week). I aim for 1x per month 100 % charge for calibration.
Hi Bjørn, I remember you mentioned partner a new content manager after solving cash flow issues. This channel is doing fantastic! The content has been top-notch. Great work!
LFP degrades differently to NMC. At first there is a bigger dip and then the slope is much flatter and the battery stabilises. Also the 'guess' factor of the bmc is much greater and only a charge-to-full from flat will give you accurate results. Recent tests and studies have also confirmed that LFP should not be short-charged to 100% because ( as with any Li-Ion battery) the last 10% are the most stressful for the battery cell.
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In fact, the last 30% double calendar aging. If you want to reduce calendar aging, just charge until 70%. And from time to time to 100% in order to calibrate BMS and balance cells.
The most recent research from Jeff Dahn's labs report there is significant degradation with LFP. They are working on improved chemistries to help with this. But the marketing and advise given appears to be only partially correct. Look up Jeff Dahn's more recent presentations if you want the real scoop. The best advise right now is to only charge to 100% on an as needed basis. Space it out depending on how much you use the car. There was also an updated video by Engineering Explained that appears to reference this info from Dr Dahn for the LFP edition and for the NMC/NCA editions. Better LFP are coming, but we are not there yet. The real million mile batteries are in fact the NMC that are maintained at a moderate SOC in the meaty center of the battery.
Yeah lfp dont want to camp with 100% either. Maybe not that bad as with nmc but still. But LFP needs 100% charges from time to time for the bms to know the soc. correctly.
My 22 lfp has done 80,000km and I have recorded the range consistently since new. I plotted it and did a trend line and I’m losing 3km of range every 10,000km. The curve is linear, it’s not tapering off.
@@sergiuvlad88 so you have lost more than me by the looks of it. I lose 3km per 10,000 and I started at 436km so at 30,000km I was at 427km range. I’m at around 412 now at 80,000km so yours is losing range quicker than mine.
Disagree. The Degradation is good. The Car had 60kWh gross capacity when it was new and around 57,4kWh net available (Buffer was 2,7kWh). Now after 2 Years and 60.000km the Battery has a gross Capacity of 57kWh, which is 5% Degradation. I think that is pretty good given the fact, that smaller batteries get more cycles and they are regulary charged to 100%. Also it seems to be the case, that the LFP Batteries mainly degrade by age, not so much by Cycles and Kilometres or DC Charging.
@@gjssjg How did you measure it? I have a 2024 LFP model 3 and my rated range (shown by the vehicle) has already dropped by 2%...(I charge at home with AC 99% of the time)
Problem with value 60kWh is that nobody has seen and measured this value, it is only on paper. If you you start measuring from delivery of car, you will measure only cca 57,4kWh. And you have to substract energy buffer to calculate usable energy - cca 54,8 kWh from 100% to 0% SOC visible on car display.
@@zsolthaluska4522 no car is 100% identical too many variables in driving and manufacturing of the battery cells.....whatever your battery state is right now is what your degradation is going to be. I've charged at home with a Tesla charger with very little supercharging, relatively none.
I also have a MY 2023 SR with 33.500km and 1 and a half year. Now the car displays 401km at 100% vs 418km as new. In the 1st year it dropped just 3km and now in the last months it dropped quite significantly in a short time. I charge mainly with DC (around 90%) but rarely to 100%, maybe 1-2 times per month. To be honest, it degrades more than anticipated, at least in the first years.
Discharge it to about 5%, let it sit for a couple of hours, charge it to 100% and let it sit for a couple of hours. You'll get some km on the guess-o-meter.
Well, that's 2-4% degradation for 1.5 years - the first 2 years are where the steep degradation occurres. Then it flattens out. I believe that's fully OK and nothing to worry about.
There have been quite a few videos about LFP degradation and best charging practices. From what I understand charging LFP to 100% daily is really bad for them especially if you are not discharging below 70%. They need more frequent 100% charges to keep the BMS accurate for state of charge because of the flat discharge curve.
@bjornnyland If I recall correctly The 60kwh SR+ had at least in the beginning an additional buffer at delivery of several kwh. The buffer was setup so that people would not get stranded , as the BMS had not all battery data yet. That buffer was removed as soon as the car was charged to 100%. I believe that some of your initial measurements of the new 60kwh SR+ had bad measurements due to that. Could you please verify and at least add a comment to the table. Just got my Knob a couple of weeks ago and was also a bit disappointed that My 2022 60kwh SR+ has roughly 5% degradation in 2 years and 32tkm in nordic climate according to the Knob’s app. But I still hope that the rate will slow down now. Keep up the good work!
While sentry use a significant amount of battery, i don't think that alone would count for even close to the reported usage here, and standby-drain is near 0. After i had my model 3 LFP parked for 2 weeks, the drain was only around 1%. However, Norway have cold climate in general, and we do use defrost/pre-heating quite a lot, especially those of us who don't park in a garage, so i think it's very likely that pre-heating is the source of the majority of the remaining unknown battery drain on this car. I believe the LFP version also like to have the battery heated up more then the other battery types, so it pre-heats the battery more as well.
Indeed, most probably the biggest one is the cabin preconditioning while the car is not plugged in, as it is not taken into account in the trip meter, but uses a lot of energy, especially in colder climates like Norway.
my argument is that regulators should force automakers to be more accurate, and have more stringent criteria, in their claimed total, and actual usable battery capacity. As well as, having SOH limit for replacement under warranty increased to 80% (or higher) of homologated actual usable battery capacity.
Tesla LFP degradation is only related to battery age. If you find two LFP model 3 built in the same month but with 200k and 10k km on odometer separately, you’ll find them have almost exactly same degradations.
On my LFP batterie with 95% DC charges as I don’t have home charging capability, I have 4,75% degradation for 135000km. What did you have Bjorn on the sexy buttons degradation numbers??
I'm finding LFP battery degrades at approximately 2%/year and that mileage doesn't have a big effect. I have a 3 year old car that has travelled 30,000 miles that has degraded by 6.28% and a similar age car, in TeslaFi, has travelled 200,000 miles and has degraded by 6.51%. I'll see how it ages over the next few years to see if it slows up, but at the moment it seems pretty linear... This is based upon range indicated when charged to 100% however the figures do agree quite well with Scan my Tesla.
@@ksmith660 Mileage per se, no. It’s cycles that is usually the critical issue. That LFP are not prone to degradation from frequent charging to 100% ,especially top cycling is now being challenged.
This. From what i've seen from owners reports is cycles and distance travelled doesnt play a big part. The majority of degrations seen is just calendar aging. The calendar aging can be slowed down by lowering the AVERAGE SOC. So for example its better to charge to 100% once per week and drive it until it hits ~20% and repeat rather than plugging in daily and always topping back up from say 90% to 100%
20% degradation in 10 years would still be a lot. If you don't drive it a lot you would need a new battery after 12 years. IMO that is still terrible. My LPG car is 14 years old and 330.000km, no problems
@@bq5577x judging by other chemistries, it wont be 2%/year every year. Degradation is typically non-linear with most of it happening in the first couple years. Nobody really knows what the curve is for LFP for EVs yet because they've only been in cars since 2021. We simply need to wait to get more data
2023 M3 LR and i lot 5% already at 43000, the worst part degradation is speeding up after this May. I'm really disappointed at these numbers. ;( i took care of it like a baby.
@@Bercik87my 22 m3p has worse because I have panasonic batteries. But 5% is nothing, it’s normal to lose that early, after that it should degrade less per km&years. just don’t charge it too high
Same here, 2022 MY LR with 7% degradation at 60k km. I noticed the same behavior, as from may degradation increased a lot, lost almost 2kwh in a month, but I suspect it is linked to outside temperature increase and I also suspect I will get some back in Oct, once outside temperature goes down. Noticed the same behavior last year as well.
9% on SR+ 12/2021 17k km, MIC. figure derived from full charge “range” as reported on %/“range”, new 444km, now 410km. 17k km, Mostly charged on slow AC. I blame regular top cycling which I have stopped doing.
I think Tesla has to do better, when it comes LFP charging recommendations. A lot of people including myself end up charging 100% way too frequently. I havent stopped until recently, when I came across a video on the topic.
I have Model Y RWD LFP BYD pack and the car is only 10 mounts old - 25k km. I have 4,2% degradation according to scan my tesla app. 60.7 kWh Full pack when New, 58.0kWh now. 2.6kWh buffer and 55.4kWh udable now. 418km rated range when new, now 408km. +-90% AC charging.
Sounds about right. I have a September 2023 Model Y RWD MIC LFP CATL with 15.000km. From new it said 418km now 412km. I have been top charging waaay to much over the past year.
Latest info I have seen is that LFP degrades much quicker if you constantly charge to 100%. Its a massive difference compared to only charging to around 50%. Especially if you leave it for a long time.
Any chance we can see how the 40kwh Leaf has fared over time. They are a popular second hand choice and interesting to see how the lack of cooling has affected the battery.
It was so nice experience to have Nissan Leaf as a rental car. Peeping all time about anything, only Chademo as only DC option and then finding Charging spots was a pleasure.
According to the SMT data you showed, this car's battery pack has lost 3.5 kWh. Tesla calculates degradation using (Nominal Ful Pack) / (Full Pack When New) = 57.0/60.5 = 94.2% of original capacity remaining. Cycles don't seem to matter as much as calendar aging, especially if car is parked for long periods at high SoC and/or high temperature.
2021 M3 LFP with 56k and ca. 8% deg. according to SMT. Used to charge to 60% in the first 1,5 years and more often to 100% since then. Didn't seem to make a difference for me, looking at the deg. over time.
The usage doesn't really appear to have any influence on degradation for the LFP M3. So I assume if you had a car with a few hundred kilometers and the corresponding cycles, the degradation per cycle would be way better. But finding such a car is probably not easy.
The thing is i did see someone test this can´t remember his name but he did say that LFP batteries need to be charged to max 60% to as when you charge it up to 100% everyday it is bad for the batteri even for LFP , so from what he did say best for LFP is to try and charge it up to only 60% and that will help the batteri to last longer. So i have started that now as long as i go to work and back if i will go longer then i will charge it higher when needed.
Question about the Sexy knob. That installation is letting to off the light from the inside of the center console? I can see that the lid of the center console cannot close completely.
BTW If you find that range has gone down faster lately it's just that Tesla changed the way of calculating it after update 2024.32.3, you must have lost from 3 to 6 kms (maybe more depending on the engine).
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The main factor in LFP degradation is TIME, not cycles, not kilometers. Cyclic aging is almost negligible. Calendar aging is not.
Agreed. My standard range MY with LFP was advertised with 455km of range and from new only ever charged to 435km. Within a year it degraded to 420km. Couple this with the fact that Tesla are about to start changing customers extra to access the full capacity of their battery, this shows that Tesla are misleading their customers.
Degradation doesn't really go by cycles (the relationship is not linear). You can expect 5% within the first 50k km and then the curve pretty much flattens out.
This seems to be in line with what I see on my 23 Model Y RWD with 50k km, around ~5%, for me the degradation seems quite big, I bought this car expecting the battery to be strong and to last and now I'm not so sure.
At about 18,000 miles on LFP and sitting at 259 miles at 100% vs 272 miles when new. Like a month ago it was showing 262 miles at 100%. Might stop charging to 100% unless going on long road trip.
Mine is from December 2022 and has 12000 miles on it. It is currently showing 251 miles where about 2 months ago it was 262 and I’ve done like 3000 miles since then. I think BMS is miscalibrated on mine as I stopped charging it to 100% and usually charge to 50-70% only the other day charged to 100% just to find out my range dropped quite a bit.
Charging to 100% is not healthy at all even to LFP battery, it's advertised to charge like that to make BMS work properly. The reason is that LFP has way more flat discharge curve (not as linear as NMC cells) and as you already noticed it kicks ass at now SOC no problem but then is suddenly goes to empty. Having it frequently at 100% SOC BMS knows was more precisely where real SOC is.
11:57 So, tesla dont report any heating to drive consumption?? So total energy consumption with heat losses is on 60kkm/15Mwh is 25kwh/100km. There is line on software DISCHARGE TOTAL 15268kwh. You can calculate wh/km from that 😊
Haa, yes. Ideling, stationary is there, offcourse. Sorry my mistake. Had to check the lines in app again. Big ideling consumption, over 2000kwh is there. But winter stationary consumption is lot, when glass roof waste the heat out.
There are lots of documented Tesla's which have over 400,000 MILES and the battery degradation is pretty much the same as someone who would be charging it at home. The difference is almost non existent. So it's proven that if you only have access to Superchargers... your battery will be just fine. CATL have batteries developed with 1,000,000 km warranty and even a new one with 1,500,000 km warranty. if your vehicle loses a certain amount of capacity over that time. I think it's around 90-ish %... they'll give you a new battery for free. We're at the point where battery degradation isn't anything to think about anymore. I sure wont be thinking about it.
LFP batteries are no good. Too heavy, low power output and battery capacity issues requiring 100% charge to reset the battery capacity, which in turn reduces battery life. Tesla 4680 dry cells will become the lowest cost and best performing batteries. Hopefully, these cells are used by Tesla in my next EV.
Well well? I am not surprised at the bigining it was the miracle battery the chinese manufacturer are just liars and now wee need to see how difficult it is to repair a LFP battery how do you melt all that glue .......just imposible😊
Hi Bjorn, i have a 03-2022 Model 3 RWD with 92.000km on the clock if you want to test it, will happily drive it to you. ScanMyTesla reports 56,6kWh nominal full pack
There is a somewhat recent video from Jeff Dahn about this very subject, and LFP was subject to higher degradation when charged to 100%. LFP suffers from partly a very flat charge curve vs cell voltage so there is merrit to charge packs with chemsitry like this to 100% more often than for example NMC/NCA. However it is still not advised as a daily routine.
I don't think most people know this info is out there. I saw Engineering Explained recently did a video on the LFP and appears to be referencing Jeff's work. Most of us have had it engrained in our heads that LFP is the way to go and that it is the million mile battery. Jeff clearly states how to get that million mile battery, but it isn't today's LFP's! LOL This info needs to get out there and people need to change their charging habits.
Yup i tend to share video from EE about LFP and NMC because so many misleading info on battery charging behaviour out there
I believe lfp batteries degrade more quickly early in their life and then flatten out, unlike other chemistries that are more constant in their degradation rate.
@@markstephandoscar634 They do degrade more quickly at first, but you will see if you look up Dr Dahn's work the degradation is still going to continue and they do degrade faster because of the BMS issues and charging to 100%. They think they have a chemistry change that helps and that is likely what CATL and BYD have been talking about with recent LFP battery announcements. Still too soon to know if this really fixes the problem. It is a TBD. We were given a lot of marketing that LFP was the million mile battery, but does not appear to be the case with the current tech sold. Looks like they are hot on the trail to fix this.
100% is a must in order to both balance cells and reset coulomb counting. However, it's enough to do it from time to time. For example, once a month. Not weekly and, of course, not always as Tesla said at the beginning.
2021 M3 LFP with 65kkm here. Scan my Tesla reports 7.6 % degradation; 62/38 % AC/DC Charging, often charged to 100 % as recommended. Since some weeks I now only charge it to 50 % daily and top up to 75 % when I need to drive longer (~2x per week).
I aim for 1x per month 100 % charge for calibration.
Hi Bjørn, I remember you mentioned partner a new content manager after solving cash flow issues. This channel is doing fantastic! The content has been top-notch. Great work!
LFP degrades differently to NMC. At first there is a bigger dip and then the slope is much flatter and the battery stabilises. Also the 'guess' factor of the bmc is much greater and only a charge-to-full from flat will give you accurate results. Recent tests and studies have also confirmed that LFP should not be short-charged to 100% because ( as with any Li-Ion battery) the last 10% are the most stressful for the battery cell.
In fact, the last 30% double calendar aging. If you want to reduce calendar aging, just charge until 70%. And from time to time to 100% in order to calibrate BMS and balance cells.
Don't LFP batteries degrade quickly early on and then slowly? It'll be interesting to see how the car would be after 4, 6, 8, 10, 15, 20 years.
this. The ageing process is very nonlinear in the beginning
not only LFP, but in general
The most recent research from Jeff Dahn's labs report there is significant degradation with LFP. They are working on improved chemistries to help with this. But the marketing and advise given appears to be only partially correct. Look up Jeff Dahn's more recent presentations if you want the real scoop. The best advise right now is to only charge to 100% on an as needed basis. Space it out depending on how much you use the car. There was also an updated video by Engineering Explained that appears to reference this info from Dr Dahn for the LFP edition and for the NMC/NCA editions. Better LFP are coming, but we are not there yet. The real million mile batteries are in fact the NMC that are maintained at a moderate SOC in the meaty center of the battery.
You are interessted to see the car after 20 years? Based on that, which decission will you make?
This is true for both LFP and NMC/nickel batteries.
DC charging is not contributing to fast degradation, it’s heat and prolonged high SoC. LFP doesn’t like to stay at high SoC either.
Yeah lfp dont want to camp with 100% either. Maybe not that bad as with nmc but still.
But LFP needs 100% charges from time to time for the bms to know the soc. correctly.
Bjorn please come to LA and test my degredation. I have 211,000 miles on my 2018.
bet you have ay flight and so on… 😂 test your soh yourself, it’s not rocket science
But your M3 will be NCA based... not LFP!
My 22 lfp has done 80,000km and I have recorded the range consistently since new. I plotted it and did a trend line and I’m losing 3km of range every 10,000km. The curve is linear, it’s not tapering off.
did you mainly charge on AC or DC? My M3 rwd 23 shows 419km when full after 27k km. Charged on DC 80% of the time.
@@sergiuvlad88 so you have lost more than me by the looks of it. I lose 3km per 10,000 and I started at 436km so at 30,000km I was at 427km range. I’m at around 412 now at 80,000km so yours is losing range quicker than mine.
Disagree. The Degradation is good. The Car had 60kWh gross capacity when it was new and around 57,4kWh net available (Buffer was 2,7kWh). Now after 2 Years and 60.000km the Battery has a gross Capacity of 57kWh, which is 5% Degradation. I think that is pretty good given the fact, that smaller batteries get more cycles and they are regulary charged to 100%. Also it seems to be the case, that the LFP Batteries mainly degrade by age, not so much by Cycles and Kilometres or DC Charging.
Agree, I have a 22 LFP MIC with 25k on the clock I don't have any degradation at all
@@gjssjg How did you measure it? I have a 2024 LFP model 3 and my rated range (shown by the vehicle) has already dropped by 2%...(I charge at home with AC 99% of the time)
Problem with value 60kWh is that nobody has seen and measured this value, it is only on paper. If you you start measuring from delivery of car, you will measure only cca 57,4kWh. And you have to substract energy buffer to calculate usable energy - cca 54,8 kWh from 100% to 0% SOC visible on car display.
@@zsolthaluska4522 Why do you charge to 100% all the time? It will degrade battery faster (yes, LFP as well)
@@zsolthaluska4522 no car is 100% identical too many variables in driving and manufacturing of the battery cells.....whatever your battery state is right now is what your degradation is going to be.
I've charged at home with a Tesla charger with very little supercharging, relatively none.
I also have a MY 2023 SR with 33.500km and 1 and a half year. Now the car displays 401km at 100% vs 418km as new. In the 1st year it dropped just 3km and now in the last months it dropped quite significantly in a short time. I charge mainly with DC (around 90%) but rarely to 100%, maybe 1-2 times per month.
To be honest, it degrades more than anticipated, at least in the first years.
Discharge it to about 5%, let it sit for a couple of hours, charge it to 100% and let it sit for a couple of hours. You'll get some km on the guess-o-meter.
My MY 2023 SR 16 months old with 38.000 km has 409 km.
Well, that's 2-4% degradation for 1.5 years - the first 2 years are where the steep degradation occurres. Then it flattens out. I believe that's fully OK and nothing to worry about.
There have been quite a few videos about LFP degradation and best charging practices. From what I understand charging LFP to 100% daily is really bad for them especially if you are not discharging below 70%. They need more frequent 100% charges to keep the BMS accurate for state of charge because of the flat discharge curve.
@bjornnyland
If I recall correctly The 60kwh SR+ had at least in the beginning an additional buffer at delivery of several kwh. The buffer was setup so that people would not get stranded , as the BMS had not all battery data yet. That buffer was removed as soon as the car was charged to 100%.
I believe that some of your initial measurements of the new 60kwh SR+ had bad measurements due to that. Could you please verify and at least add a comment to the table.
Just got my Knob a couple of weeks ago and was also a bit disappointed that My 2022 60kwh SR+ has roughly 5% degradation in 2 years and 32tkm in nordic climate according to the Knob’s app. But I still hope that the rate will slow down now.
Keep up the good work!
While sentry use a significant amount of battery, i don't think that alone would count for even close to the reported usage here, and standby-drain is near 0. After i had my model 3 LFP parked for 2 weeks, the drain was only around 1%.
However, Norway have cold climate in general, and we do use defrost/pre-heating quite a lot, especially those of us who don't park in a garage, so i think it's very likely that pre-heating is the source of the majority of the remaining unknown battery drain on this car.
I believe the LFP version also like to have the battery heated up more then the other battery types, so it pre-heats the battery more as well.
Indeed, most probably the biggest one is the cabin preconditioning while the car is not plugged in, as it is not taken into account in the trip meter, but uses a lot of energy, especially in colder climates like Norway.
my argument is that regulators should force automakers to be more accurate, and have more stringent criteria, in their claimed total, and actual usable battery capacity. As well as, having SOH limit for replacement under warranty increased to 80% (or higher) of homologated actual usable battery capacity.
Tesla LFP degradation is only related to battery age. If you find two LFP model 3 built in the same month but with 200k and 10k km on odometer separately, you’ll find them have almost exactly same degradations.
On my LFP batterie with 95% DC charges as I don’t have home charging capability, I have 4,75% degradation for 135000km. What did you have Bjorn on the sexy buttons degradation numbers??
I'm finding LFP battery degrades at approximately 2%/year and that mileage doesn't have a big effect. I have a 3 year old car that has travelled 30,000 miles that has degraded by 6.28% and a similar age car, in TeslaFi, has travelled 200,000 miles and has degraded by 6.51%. I'll see how it ages over the next few years to see if it slows up, but at the moment it seems pretty linear... This is based upon range indicated when charged to 100% however the figures do agree quite well with Scan my Tesla.
@@ksmith660 Mileage per se, no. It’s cycles that is usually the critical issue. That LFP are not prone to degradation from frequent charging to 100% ,especially top cycling is now being challenged.
This. From what i've seen from owners reports is cycles and distance travelled doesnt play a big part. The majority of degrations seen is just calendar aging. The calendar aging can be slowed down by lowering the AVERAGE SOC. So for example its better to charge to 100% once per week and drive it until it hits ~20% and repeat rather than plugging in daily and always topping back up from say 90% to 100%
20% degradation in 10 years would still be a lot. If you don't drive it a lot you would need a new battery after 12 years. IMO that is still terrible. My LPG car is 14 years old and 330.000km, no problems
@@bq5577x judging by other chemistries, it wont be 2%/year every year. Degradation is typically non-linear with most of it happening in the first couple years. Nobody really knows what the curve is for LFP for EVs yet because they've only been in cars since 2021. We simply need to wait to get more data
2023 M3 LR and i lot 5% already at 43000, the worst part degradation is speeding up after this May. I'm really disappointed at these numbers. ;( i took care of it like a baby.
LR does not have LFP batteries.
@@DamianLesiuk It doesn't - but i'm referring to generic battery degradation from customer perspecitve. It's MUCH more than anticipated.
@@Bercik87my 22 m3p has worse because I have panasonic batteries. But 5% is nothing, it’s normal to lose that early, after that it should degrade less per km&years. just don’t charge it too high
Same here, 2022 MY LR with 7% degradation at 60k km. I noticed the same behavior, as from may degradation increased a lot, lost almost 2kwh in a month, but I suspect it is linked to outside temperature increase and I also suspect I will get some back in Oct, once outside temperature goes down. Noticed the same behavior last year as well.
Maybe test degradation also with different LFP Model 3s
9% on SR+ 12/2021 17k km, MIC. figure derived from full charge “range” as reported on %/“range”, new 444km, now 410km. 17k km, Mostly charged on slow AC. I blame regular top cycling which I have stopped doing.
Is it also LFP? There's a theory about this saying that LFP might degrade more as time passes than with kms or charging cycles.
8% on SR+ 10/2021 51k km, MIC
I think Tesla has to do better, when it comes LFP charging recommendations.
A lot of people including myself end up charging 100% way too frequently. I havent stopped until recently, when I came across a video on the topic.
Last year I had 59,0 kWh Usable Remaining in new 2023 Model Y Rwd according to ScanMyTesla. Now it is 56,0 kWh. Degradation is 5 %.
I have Model Y RWD LFP BYD pack and the car is only 10 mounts old - 25k km. I have 4,2% degradation according to scan my tesla app. 60.7 kWh Full pack when New, 58.0kWh now. 2.6kWh buffer and 55.4kWh udable now. 418km rated range when new, now 408km. +-90% AC charging.
Sounds about right. I have a September 2023 Model Y RWD MIC LFP CATL with 15.000km.
From new it said 418km now 412km.
I have been top charging waaay to much over the past year.
Thank you
Latest info I have seen is that LFP degrades much quicker if you constantly charge to 100%. Its a massive difference compared to only charging to around 50%. Especially if you leave it for a long time.
Where did you get that? The chemical structure of LFP should be much more stable at 100% than NMC/NCA, so that doesn't align with most info.
@@GoofyChristoffer It does "better" with degradation from high SoC, but LFP is not 100% resistant to it. Not at all.
Any chance we can see how the 40kwh Leaf has fared over time. They are a popular second hand choice and interesting to see how the lack of cooling has affected the battery.
Leaf 2018 40kWh, 6.5 years, 60K km, 30% fast charging = 14% degradation.
Leaf 2017 40kWh, 55000 km, 50% DC charging, 11,3% degradation.
It was so nice experience to have Nissan Leaf as a rental car. Peeping all time about anything, only Chademo as only DC option and then finding Charging spots was a pleasure.
My tesla model 3 LR 2019 NMC, has 152k on the clock and 8% degredation. 4500kw dc charge and 26000kw AC charge.
My 2022 Model 3 RWD (LFP) has ~120 000 kms and has around 6.4% degradation according to the Tessie app. Around 80% AC charged, 20% DC charged.
@@hayden4857 what’s the displayed range out of interest?
According to the SMT data you showed, this car's battery pack has lost 3.5 kWh. Tesla calculates degradation using (Nominal Ful Pack) / (Full Pack When New) = 57.0/60.5 = 94.2% of original capacity remaining. Cycles don't seem to matter as much as calendar aging, especially if car is parked for long periods at high SoC and/or high temperature.
Got the same car with 84,000km and about the same degradation, avg 129Wh/km
Great video
2021 M3 LFP with 56k and ca. 8% deg. according to SMT. Used to charge to 60% in the first 1,5 years and more often to 100% since then. Didn't seem to make a difference for me, looking at the deg. over time.
I have Tesla Model 3 SR+ 60 kWh LFP at 93k km. I can give you some stats if you like.
Only taken the battery to 7% and even then was sweating about it even though I had many superchargers within the area. 😅
The usage doesn't really appear to have any influence on degradation for the LFP M3. So I assume if you had a car with a few hundred kilometers and the corresponding cycles, the degradation per cycle would be way better. But finding such a car is probably not easy.
The thing is i did see someone test this can´t remember his name but he did say that LFP batteries need to be charged to max 60% to as when you charge it up to 100% everyday it is bad for the batteri even for LFP , so from what he did say best for LFP is to try and charge it up to only 60% and that will help the batteri to last longer. So i have started that now as long as i go to work and back if i will go longer then i will charge it higher when needed.
Here for the dad jokes - AC/DC one got me haha
I never mesuared the degration on my 2019 M3 LR but at least i dont feel it jet 😅
i want to see the scanmytesla battery stats of mc hammer 🙏
Question about the Sexy knob.
That installation is letting to off the light from the inside of the center console?
I can see that the lid of the center console cannot close completely.
BTW If you find that range has gone down faster lately it's just that Tesla changed the way of calculating it after update 2024.32.3, you must have lost from 3 to 6 kms (maybe more depending on the engine).
The main factor in LFP degradation is TIME, not cycles, not kilometers. Cyclic aging is almost negligible. Calendar aging is not.
Very good 💯
Agreed. My standard range MY with LFP was advertised with 455km of range and from new only ever charged to 435km. Within a year it degraded to 420km. Couple this with the fact that Tesla are about to start changing customers extra to access the full capacity of their battery, this shows that Tesla are misleading their customers.
How had been the battery charged? Since the new study that 100% always is also not good for LFP batteries, I charge only once a week to 100%.
Degradation doesn't really go by cycles (the relationship is not linear). You can expect 5% within the first 50k km and then the curve pretty much flattens out.
My 2020 54kwh has 13% according to sexy button 60k on the clock
This seems to be in line with what I see on my 23 Model Y RWD with 50k km, around ~5%, for me the degradation seems quite big, I bought this car expecting the battery to be strong and to last and now I'm not so sure.
You forgot to subtract the energy regenerated from the charge total. The numbers work then.
aviloo formula for tesla battery pack:
"nominal full pack" minus "energy buffer". that's it.
At about 18,000 miles on LFP and sitting at 259 miles at 100% vs 272 miles when new. Like a month ago it was showing 262 miles at 100%. Might stop charging to 100% unless going on long road trip.
charging to 100% all times is also bad for LFP
Mine is from December 2022 and has 12000 miles on it. It is currently showing 251 miles where about 2 months ago it was 262 and I’ve done like 3000 miles since then. I think BMS is miscalibrated on mine as I stopped charging it to 100% and usually charge to 50-70% only the other day charged to 100% just to find out my range dropped quite a bit.
@@bq5577x We don't. Maybe once a week. Drive it down to 20% or so and charge it back.
My 22 LFP 20,000 miles is also at 259 (273 when new) -similar to yours.
Charging to 100% is not healthy at all even to LFP battery, it's advertised to charge like that to make BMS work properly. The reason is that LFP has way more flat discharge curve (not as linear as NMC cells) and as you already noticed it kicks ass at now SOC no problem but then is suddenly goes to empty. Having it frequently at 100% SOC BMS knows was more precisely where real SOC is.
Oh, you better get a bigger sample size to make sure!
3:36 What did the car GOM report as km range at 100% battery
Was also hoping to see that
11:57 So, tesla dont report any heating to drive consumption?? So total energy consumption with heat losses is on 60kkm/15Mwh is 25kwh/100km. There is line on software DISCHARGE TOTAL 15268kwh. You can calculate wh/km from that 😊
Common misconception. Tesla counts heat also.
Haa, yes. Ideling, stationary is there, offcourse. Sorry my mistake. Had to check the lines in app again. Big ideling consumption, over 2000kwh is there.
But winter stationary consumption is lot, when glass roof waste the heat out.
btw my m3 rwd from 2022.12 had 62kwh gross (nominal remaining) 59,2kwh net. can send you smt screenshot.
Oh my days, gray hair in coming😢
Does not tesla know the nett battery capacity when new?
Is the LFP battery in that Tesla the same as the one in the new Highland RWD?
@@cemoz0132 Tesla didn’t updated their batteries with Highland, so yes, is the same LFP battery from CATL.
This battery probably needed a few calibration Cycles where is discharged down below 5% SOC add charge below 12kw/h up to 100%
❤❤❤
I leased my ModelY SR LFP - so don't care about degradation!! lol
4% in the first 2 years is OK I guess, but if it continues like this its not good.
Trade it in for a GM EV!😊
4.2% capacity loss
Second 😊
There are lots of documented Tesla's which have over 400,000 MILES and the battery degradation is pretty much the same as someone who would be charging it at home. The difference is almost non existent. So it's proven that if you only have access to Superchargers... your battery will be just fine. CATL have batteries developed with 1,000,000 km warranty and even a new one with 1,500,000 km warranty. if your vehicle loses a certain amount of capacity over that time. I think it's around 90-ish %... they'll give you a new battery for free. We're at the point where battery degradation isn't anything to think about anymore. I sure wont be thinking about it.
I don't think any Tesla LFP battery already has 400.000 miles.
First 👋
Third
LFP batteries are no good. Too heavy, low power output and battery capacity issues requiring 100% charge to reset the battery capacity, which in turn reduces battery life. Tesla 4680 dry cells will become the lowest cost and best performing batteries. Hopefully, these cells are used by Tesla in my next EV.
LFP are the best option right now, we will see what's really behind the 4680 cells, we have only promises so far.
Well well? I am not surprised at the bigining it was the miracle battery the chinese manufacturer are just liars and now wee need to see how difficult it is to repair a LFP battery how do you melt all that glue .......just imposible😊
Hi Bjorn, i have a 03-2022 Model 3 RWD with 92.000km on the clock if you want to test it, will happily drive it to you.
ScanMyTesla reports 56,6kWh nominal full pack