Older tires become more efficient and less grippy. I'm noticing my 2019 model 3 get more efficient and start to get tire chirp on turns. It's almost time for new tires but I love the efficiency gains of these old tires.
;-) Smaller rolling-diameter when wearing out vs. new tires. This = Your car believes it drives longer than when on new tires & due to this, at an actual slower speed too vs. what the cars tells you. So just look forward to those new tires and enjoy :-)
@@ChipMIK I know the slightly smaller diameter makes a difference in the distance calculation but I have noticed my commute is using less battery percentage than 3 years ago. And it's a fact that older tires become more efficient but loses grip.
I think you are right, the number plate plus the boot lip will both create more drag. Which is a shame when Tesla has gone to all that trouble to make a very efficient car. 😮
Another excellent video Richard. My 2021 M3 SR+ with LFP battery is exactly a year old today. Sadly I have kept a complete record of all costs and charging over this year. Driving has mainly been in town with very occasional longer motorway trips. Based on the Odometer readings on the screen I have used 1146 kWh but I believe this is only when car is in Drive. In reality I have used 1500 kWh based on charging records (home and superchargers) which is 30% more. I assume this is due to pre-heating the car in winter, pre-cooling car and overheat protection, in winter, and keeping climate control on when parked. The range based on the odometer figures and assuming a 52 kW battery is 200 miles in winter (October to March), 235 miles in summer (April to September), and 215 miles overall. In reality and based on actual energy usage though these ranges drop by 23% to 24%
Don't forget simple charging losses giving you that gap being what's delivered to the car and what your electric bill tells you. Converting home AC to DC for the car to charge with will incur losses ( heat in cable, losses in the conversion ) and expect that to be worse in winter. I have measured things too, so if I have say 16kWh going into the car battery , then I often found I have needed 18kWh to get there. Of course as you say using pre heat/cooling , Sentry etc will add to the "extra" energy needed. So as you know when people say they get 200Wh/mile or whatever the reality is that is it a bit more. It's a bit like filling an ICE car and a significant amount of the fuel evaporates away as you fill it and some evaporates away with the car standing.
You need to compare the miles of range when charging since the same percentage of a bigger battery takes more energy so the bigger battery will always take longer to a set percentage! 😊
The bigger battery would take longer if charging from the same state of charge. Say from 0% for example. But the point here was they both had to recharge what they used. Which was an almost identical amount. The charging speed was also clearly a little faster on the older car. Both cars triggered pre-heat for charging at the same time so we know the battery temps were the same
Imagine taking a pint of beer. Drink 30%. Then top up the 30% into a pint glass v a glass a bit bigger than a pint. The bit bigger than a pint glass should be able to top up faster, if anything
No - you’re not considering that you are measuring recharge rate by percentage of battery capacity. This doesn’t work when you have a constant input kilowatts but different sizes. Imagine that you had one battery that was twice the size of the other - in which case it would appear to charge at half the speed when measured as a percentage. In this case it isn’t twice - but it explains why the larger battery charges slower. Also, interesting observation about the number plate - I think you might be onto something there.
@@glenndotarcher it won't be just one thing: - more friction on the newer model (moving parts) - aerodynamic (spoiler, license plate) - heat pump, refrigeration pumps, lighting, etc that all together may work better but may also consume a little more
Up vote the high mileage video! Would love to know about maintenance costs, rough supercharge to AC charging ratio. And if you can find a high mileage example on a wide range of Tesla models and even other brands. Keep up the excellent videos.
My old 2021 M3LR (9,950 miles when I sold it) M3LR had a better ride, than my new 2022 M3LR. However, new car is seems much quieter, wind noise has been greatly reduced. I agree with you on the number plate, more of an impact the rear spoiler. Once again, top notch video, very well done!!
Just wondered how you’re going with your 22 plate? I’m in a situation where I don’t know if I should go for the 21 or 22? Obviously the 21 is a bit cheaper but is it worth spending 3 grand more for the 22? Thanks.
Another great video Richard. Thanks. Prompted me to check which version Model I have. Just checked the brake lights. Hooray I have the latest version. Model 3, JAN 2022 AWD for reference.
great video as always. I have a late 2021 which I believe is identical to the 2022. I also have the bigger LG battery. overall a brilliant car, enormously efficient and just a joy. such back to back tests are very important. of course the newer models always have some advantages but even the first model 3 are in my view a great buy even with high mileage. Only thing to be careful about: if people did not install mud flaps that is bad for the door sills and the stones and gravel can easily damage the paint and produce corrosion later on. and since that is then not from the inside it would not be covered by the 12yr corrosion warranty. BUT/: if one has the tesla mud flaps I would highly recommend to take them off once in spring and clean behind them since they accumulate dirt. no big deal, I led Tesla do it when exchanging thee air filters anyway (I have high mileage already after 10 months ;) ) and it cost around 15€ 😂 not worth doing it oneself for that little money
With the next software update, you can also see the power drain separated per system, like HVAC and drivetrain. As the energy in the battery pack is higher, is it also a heavier battery pack? And more thread on a tyre is also slightly less efficient. So in the next test, include mentioning the weight and pressures, but also try and get the same tyres... and make sure the same settings are kept like autopilot, support mode and cabin temperature.
Weight can make a difference bug from tests Bjørn Nyland did, it actually doesn't make that much difference. In fact one car he loaded to the gills and got a better consumption result (!) but he thought there could been a small gain from slightly lower ride height with the extra weight. I imagine the spoiler and number plate could make a significant difference.
Another great review & comparison between oldish & new 3s. But the other cars with over 300k miles - wow! I'd normally shy away from high mile cars but goes to show but it would be interesting to see costs over the year's. Also, is their a significant weight difference between u & Gibbs re efficiency difference? 🤣🤣Thanks Rich👍🏽
I have had my 2019 3P since march 19, its been very reliable and hasent cost me a lot in services. Running costs quite low, it also uses quite little energy for travel. So even quick charging on vacation is ok since it goes quite far on each charge. Most likely I will sell it now for a YP though (berlin one). I did testdrive an YP some days ago and I have two on order (will just keep one of them from the order).
I got 304 miles (well I did 284 miles with 7% left) all motorway driving the other week in my 2022 LFP RWD. Autopilot set to 68/70. And mine has the square numberplate on!
Hi Richard, great vid as always. I got pulled by plod for having wrongly-spaced number plate S1 2EBU instead of S12 EBU and got £100 fine but they didn't comment about the stick-on plate at all.
I was thinking to myself that the decal number plate is probably the reason for the tiny efficiency advantage, but you arrived at the same conclusion. 😆👍
I did drive a model 3 LG new from okt. 2021 for 6 months and got a new one few days ago and the new one is a bit more silent and it feels a bit better on bed road, like a bit better put together. I noticed it right away when I drove off that Tesla made some upgrades on chassis.
I was going to say the number plate when I saw them side by side! I put a stick on one on my performance model 3 and seen slightly better range since, to the point I’m always beating the range estimate!
Just a note to say that stick on numberplates are legal in the UK, so long as they use the correct reflective material and have the appropriate BSAU mark. The law doesn't distinguish what a plate has to be made from, so long as they conform to the BSAU standard and are produced by an authorised shop. Of course, there are companies who do not sell compliant stick-on ones.
Interesting. I would think the new chip, plate and spoiler, plus maybe a bit of extra weight. Most of what you mentioned. I'd like to see a 2022 and a pre heatpump 2020 say. Out of interest, My 2020 M3LR is as efficient as my wife's Model Y 2022 with heatpump. Obivously a more efficient shape, but still a suprise. Maybe a 3LR vs a ModelY LR would be interesting! Anyway, thanks, good stuff :-)
There are more sources for better efficiency on oder models: - the older battery already had the initial "optimization" cycles (on the oder side, if it's too old, then has too many cycles...) - all bearings and moving parts (from the engine, tires, brakes...) have already the "running" where friction parts have already adapted to each other. I would be more interested to know if the build quality (which includes wind and noise isolation) is compared to equivalent cars, where tesla has been lacking...
Richard, the slight efficiency difference could well be the extra weight of the larger battery. Not sure what the weight difference between you two is as well. If you really want to get nerdy about figures, maybe you need to even up driver weight as well by adding some ballast to lighter driver (assuming there is a difference of course), but we are just ironing out very minor differences here.
A spoiler like that won't increase down force it will just reduce lift, technically it may actually increase efficiency as it could lower turbulent airflow attaching to the rear of the car. However, being that small it would only move the turbulent air back about 5cm
10% of a bigger battery will take longer to charge as more needs to go in. I doubt that’s the reason but it will explain some of it. Interesting as always Richard. Thanks. Where can you get the vinyl plates from please?
Vinyl plates are totally legal. What the plate is made from is not legislated, what is is the font size, actual font, spacing and required to be a reflective material. I got mine from proplates online.
Bit of a pig to put on in that getting it straight and the air bubbles out. Think like putting a screen protector on your phone but fiddlier. Pro tip, spray some soapy water on the bumper, this will let you move the plates a bit when you put it on so you can get it just right. It will dry overnight and the plate won’t move when dried. Good luck.
@@dirkdiggler69 it's a shame that cars here in the UK have to display a front number plate. Motorcycles haven't needed one for years. I can still remember removing mine from my Bonneville.
Nice video,like always. I wish i was there to say hi as i use that charger quite often. I have a LRMY with 20 " induction wheels. As the winter is coming i was thinking if its such a big deal to buy the 19" gemini wheels for winter time. I have to mention that i work in taxi industry and i do high mileage. Thanks for your videos keep up
Richard - I've just ordered a wdird model 3..... its the model 3 long range RWD rather than AWD. Have you eeen anything about this... what are your thoughts? Slower acceleration but 394 range?
Great comparison test guys, I really love this sort of fact-checking. Certainly, with the massive attention to detail that Tesla put into their designs, that sodding great brick of a number-plate housing in the middle of the most critical areodynamic section of the whole vehicle is like sticking a flat licence plate on the nose of a jet aircraft. Not going to assist smooth airflow much, particularly at higher speeds. Someone at Tesla UK needs to be educated. I have the same model, but it's company car, so can't change it. Also consider the loosening-up of moving components in the drive-train over time.
Worn tyres less grip and rolling resistance, plus tyre pressures? Interesting video. No to suspension-it's too firm. Customer service said to put after market dampers on!
Charging depends on where you parked, and who is next you you? Right. I do a lot of long drives across the US. And I have starting charging where I am the one and only, and get great charge rate. And when it get to a busy, the charge drops, and it takes longer. It depends which charger you pick. If someone pulls out, it gets faster.
Hi, Richard. Just watched an American guy on You Tube talk about his LFP Tesla battery. He's been charging it to 100% constantly, and found - after 7,700 miles - the battery has degraded nearly 3%. So he's stopped charging to 100%, except on long journeys. Apparently, the recommendation to fully charge relates only to obtaining a more accurate idea of the charge to range ratio, not for the sake of the battery. The guy says he's not too worried because, even at that degradation rate, the batteries won't fail until the vehicle hits 350,000 miles. I don't think he understands the range will become impractically low long before total battery failure. Just thought you'd like to know there may be an issue with 100% charging - even with LFPs.
@RSymons. Which car would you recommend/buy with your money? 2022 Tesla Model 3 SR Or 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR Not sure if much has changed between the years in the form of tech or changes. Thanks!
It would have been interesting to see if swapping cars made a difference since driving style will have a big impact, even when both cars are essentially being driven at the same speed. I had an old boss who drove as if his accelerator was a switch yet most of the time was no faster than any other cars around him. His fuel and tyre consumption were horrendous.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but for anyone who ends up wondering why the difference in efficiency, the main contributor is most likely the use of the hungrier AMD chip in the 22 version.
Stick on number plates - whether or not they are legal, the facts that your plate does not display BS AU 145d (or e) and no maker name or post code on them makes them illegal by default in your case here on the '21' car. Good video about the cars Rich, thx 🙂 Am still wanting one, even with stupid electric prices and no way of home charging. I want to enjoy the Tesla tech so badly. 👍🏻
@RSymons RSEV I think the difference is due to the different battery LG vs Panasonic. The old one i bet it's from Fremont Usa ( you can check the last letter of the VIN ) and the new one is from China Shanghai. The old one has the Panasonic one thus more efficient and better charging due to the fact that its tested. The LG ones there will be in par in future updates. Cheers, great videos as always.
Efficiency change? Speed difference? Could it simply be tyre pressures (or even different tyre batches)? The other small differences likely all fall within experimental errors. That number plate will make a difference - especially at higher speeds. The arrival at final destination because of charging speed may be a red herring? Amount of energy added would be different to return to 80% on both cars. I think it needs an in-depth analysis, not a ‘gut feeling’ as you drive along.🙂. One journey (swallow) does not make a summer, as we say…. Enjoyed the video, all the same.
Hi Richard. How about a video comparing Tesla vision with the existing radar/camera collision prevention functionality that you tested with cardboard Elon in your traffic light drag race alleyway. Would be interesting to see if it’s better or worse now. 🧐
@@RSEV When I ordered the M3 LR in January 2022 the information about the range drop was due to the new AMD Ryzen. You also may have a bit higher internal resistance in the new battery? Therefore the slower charging?
Rookie mistake on the efficiency measurement - the preheating could be slightly different between the cars. You should really have not navigated to the charger :) The charge speeds are quite dependent on the source of the battery pack cells. If you have the older panasonic packs you get the highest charge speeds, which is what the 2021 car here probably has. The 2021 cars can also come with 75kWh LG cells, and those charge slower. The larger 82kWh pack is also LG, and slower.
The overall efficiency remains the same if you pre-heat or not. All that happens when you get to the charger without pre-heating is that the battery heater comes on and the car charges slower until the pack has heated. Pre-heating just consumes that energy while you are driving rather than sat on the charger. You either get a more efficient drive or a more efficient and faster charge. You could argue when the car is driving it has more options to raise battery temperature without using extra energy, when it's stationary it can only actively heat it. Finally, this is a comparison of two vehicles capability. Pre-heating is part of the capability and if one car does it better then that is relevant to the test being performed. They also drove the cars for 50 miles without pre-heating and the older car was still more efficient.
@@insanityideas - I don't think the displayed efficiency does ignore the battery pre-heating whilst driving. It counts all energy used whilst moving. It will ignore the heating whilst stationary though. At least that is my experience with my Model 3, which does a lot of battery heating cos i live in central Norway. Yes, you can argue that it is a test of the two car's capabilities, but the larger capacity battery probably has slightly greater weight. It certainly has a different materials make-up, which means a different (probably higher) heat capacity and a different amount of energy needed to heat it by the same number of degrees.
@@15bit62 Exactly my point, they were trying to compare two different cars but keeping other variables the same. So if the bigger battery does have more thermal mass that will affect pre-heating and therefore overall efficiency of the vehicle when on a trip involving fast charger use. The fact the bigger battery is disadvantaged by pre-heating is actually relevant to the test they were doing. And it will be relevant to any customer that regularly does journeys using DC fast chargers, because even if they don't pre-heat, the car will insist on heating the battery whilst it's charging meaning that a bigger battery charges less efficiently.
@@15bit62 I use Teslamate with my car to grab some extra data because I was curious about how pre-heating worked and if I could save electricity by turning it off and suffering a slower charge (conclusion was that you can't, and actually heating whilst driving may use less energy on a plug to wheel basis) You are correct, the on screen efficiency numbers are all energy out of the battery, so when the car pre-heats the battery during a drive displayed efficiency does go down. The amount of extra power used varies, it can be using extra 7kw just to heat the battery, or as little as 1kw (measured from Teslamate realtime power consumption with the vehicle stationary during pre-heat). What the car doesn't show you is the efficiency of the charge session, it shows energy flow rate into the battery, but Tesla supercharger and all other chargers bill for energy delivered to the car. So if you turn up with a cold battery it will take 7kw of available power from the charger to heat the battery, and that's completely wasted energy (unless it's a heat pump car and the weather is cold, in which case it will heat the cabin from the stored heat in the battery). This is why if you plug into a slow 50kw/100Amp DC charger you might see a charge rate in the car of 27kw rather than the possible 35kw that the charger can achieve and is delivering. This is the difference between what's delivered to the car and what makes it to the battery. Note: Partially discharged battery has charging voltage of 350v which at 100Amp is 35kw. All those 50kw or 120kw chargers only achieve that power level on 500v or 800v cars. The number that matters is the Amps that can be delivered, which is hidden in small print on the charger rating plate. AC charging is usually more efficient in this regard because the car has a much lower battery temperature target when charging at slower speeds. Still needs to heat in cold temperatures, but during the summer it's just running the coolant pump to keep temperatures even, no heating or cooling is taking place.
In response to original comment… 158it Firstly we did say in the video they both started preheating at the same time. A sign battery temps were the same. Secondly, the second part of the journey did not include any preheating as it was back to the office. Same results… and despite the newer car using the aero covers. FYI 75 and 78.8kwh Cars. We never had the 82 long range, only in the performance.
Difference comes from Ryzen computer in 2022 + number plate. The new computer uses far more power to run and it runs all the time. Spoiler is also a factor but normally those increase efficiency.
Rounding is to full kW, so with such a short distance the error is large. In the worst case, one could have 21.49kW and the other 21.51kW, which is a difference of 0.02kW and not 1kW as you said. You are looking for differences not where you need to.
could it be the more worn tyres on the 2021 have less flex (less energy losses) on the tread blocks (because of the shallower tread depths) and into slightly different compounds as the tyre wears down?
One thing to also remember is that the 2022 Models have the AMD Ryzen system which drains a bit more electricity than the Intel Atom Systems in the 2021 and earlier models.
How come the processors weren’t mentioned? There were a number of articles saying the Ryzen processor decreases the efficiency of the car, hence the reason why Tesla started fitting the larger batteries?
I’m curious, shouldn’t the 2021 have had more battery degradation (~10% in the first year) compared to the newer model? Therefore it would have charged quicker since it has less total capacity left?
It’s a very grey area isn’t it on their legality. Some say they’re not after a certain (recent) date new… but I’m not clear… One like on this car certainly is correct font, spacing, reflective etc so I really don’t see the issue if all this is in place
@@RSEV I've had mine on my model 3 since April 2020 and not had any problem but would like to have one on any new Tesla I bought in the future. I'll just keep my fingers crossed 🤞😁
@@RSEV following watching this video (great, as always, by-the-way...!) I did a bit of research... So long as a registration plate meets the requirements of the British Standard BS AU 145e, then they should be perfectly legal, stick-on or not. SO WHAT DO PLATES HAVE TO BE UNDER THE E STANDARD? Durable and able to resist: Impact - Stone chips and minor parking collisions are unfortunately part of driving. The impact test ensures the plate’s longevity. Bending - The components that make up a plate can separate from each other when the plate is bent. This is sometimes called plate delamination. The bend test prevents delamination on BNMA member supplied plates. Thermal change - The UK’s changeable temperature necessitates this test. The plate’s shape and size must remain the same when subjected to heat and cold. Abrasion (NEW) - Plates stay clear and easy-to-read if they pass the abrasion test. This protects against repeated exposure to dirt, road grime and jet-washing. Being removed from a vehicle - Provided adhesive pads are placed correctly along the plate, it will take over 160 hours of consistent pressure to detach a plate that passes the E standard. Weathering - The weathering test under BS AU 145d remains the same under BS AU 145e. It’s a key and extensive test and replicates 2,275 hours of UV exposure; 2½ times more than some other European number plate test schedules. Dirt - As a subset of the weathering test, plates must be able to resist simulated dirt.
I think the dead flies on the new car knocked the miles off and the driver was lighter and in the old one and turned he blower and radio off to mess with your head.
Have something in the pipeline for exactly this 😉 Just taking a while for BMW to release hundreds of cars that are sitting built and made but under recall and cannot be handed over.. 🤦♂️
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Would love the video with the high mile Teslas
Definitely. The future all of the cars are heading towards
He did one not long ago on high mileage s model
Really good video Richard. Not many people able to do this kind of back to back testing, so very interesting and thanks for doing it.
Older tires become more efficient and less grippy. I'm noticing my 2019 model 3 get more efficient and start to get tire chirp on turns. It's almost time for new tires but I love the efficiency gains of these old tires.
Just buy 2nd hand tyres if that is the case
;-) Smaller rolling-diameter when wearing out vs. new tires. This = Your car believes it drives longer than when on new tires & due to this, at an actual slower speed too vs. what the cars tells you. So just look forward to those new tires and enjoy :-)
@@ChipMIK I know the slightly smaller diameter makes a difference in the distance calculation but I have noticed my commute is using less battery percentage than 3 years ago. And it's a fact that older tires become more efficient but loses grip.
Stick on number plate makes the front of the car much cleaner,excellent video.
I think you are right, the number plate plus the boot lip will both create more drag. Which is a shame when Tesla has gone to all that trouble to make a very efficient car. 😮
Also my guess the newer grippier tyres are less efficient. Eco tyres for example don't tend to have the best grip but have better efficiency.
Think also the extra weight of the slight larger battery
Another excellent video Richard. My 2021 M3 SR+ with LFP battery is exactly a year old today. Sadly I have kept a complete record of all costs and charging over this year. Driving has mainly been in town with very occasional longer motorway trips. Based on the Odometer readings on the screen I have used 1146 kWh but I believe this is only when car is in Drive. In reality I have used 1500 kWh based on charging records (home and superchargers) which is 30% more. I assume this is due to pre-heating the car in winter, pre-cooling car and overheat protection, in winter, and keeping climate control on when parked. The range based on the odometer figures and assuming a 52 kW battery is 200 miles in winter (October to March), 235 miles in summer (April to September), and 215 miles overall. In reality and based on actual energy usage though these ranges drop by 23% to 24%
Don't forget simple charging losses giving you that gap being what's delivered to the car and what your electric bill tells you. Converting home AC to DC for the car to charge with will incur losses ( heat in cable, losses in the conversion ) and expect that to be worse in winter. I have measured things too, so if I have say 16kWh going into the car battery , then I often found I have needed 18kWh to get there.
Of course as you say using pre heat/cooling , Sentry etc will add to the "extra" energy needed.
So as you know when people say they get 200Wh/mile or whatever the reality is that is it a bit more. It's a bit like filling an ICE car and a significant amount of the fuel evaporates away as you fill it and some evaporates away with the car standing.
I can see how charging losses can contribute - a bit like friction loss in pipes
You need to compare the miles of range when charging since the same percentage of a bigger battery takes more energy so the bigger battery will always take longer to a set percentage! 😊
True
The bigger battery would take longer if charging from the same state of charge. Say from 0% for example.
But the point here was they both had to recharge what they used. Which was an almost identical amount.
The charging speed was also clearly a little faster on the older car.
Both cars triggered pre-heat for charging at the same time so we know the battery temps were the same
Imagine taking a pint of beer. Drink 30%. Then top up the 30% into a pint glass v a glass a bit bigger than a pint.
The bit bigger than a pint glass should be able to top up faster, if anything
No - you’re not considering that you are measuring recharge rate by percentage of battery capacity. This doesn’t work when you have a constant input kilowatts but different sizes. Imagine that you had one battery that was twice the size of the other - in which case it would appear to charge at half the speed when measured as a percentage. In this case it isn’t twice - but it explains why the larger battery charges slower. Also, interesting observation about the number plate - I think you might be onto something there.
@@glenndotarcher it won't be just one thing:
- more friction on the newer model (moving parts)
- aerodynamic (spoiler, license plate)
- heat pump, refrigeration pumps, lighting, etc that all together may work better but may also consume a little more
Up vote the high mileage video! Would love to know about maintenance costs, rough supercharge to AC charging ratio. And if you can find a high mileage example on a wide range of Tesla models and even other brands.
Keep up the excellent videos.
Great comparison Richard. Interesting the number plate. Agree with your view.
THANK YOU, for the video !!!!
I was thinking alot to change my 2021 LR to the new one. But not anymore :)
My old 2021 M3LR (9,950 miles when I sold it) M3LR had a better ride, than my new 2022 M3LR. However, new car is seems much quieter, wind noise has been greatly reduced. I agree with you on the number plate, more of an impact the rear spoiler. Once again, top notch video, very well done!!
Just wondered how you’re going with your 22 plate? I’m in a situation where I don’t know if I should go for the 21 or 22? Obviously the 21 is a bit cheaper but is it worth spending 3 grand more for the 22? Thanks.
Another great video Richard. Thanks. Prompted me to check which version Model I have. Just checked the brake lights. Hooray I have the latest version. Model 3, JAN 2022 AWD for reference.
Picked up my MYLR this week on alloys. The ride quality is soooo much nicer than the one I test drove 6 months ago on 19” wheels.
The 19’s with Hankook tyres are pretty firm!!
great video as always. I have a late 2021 which I believe is identical to the 2022. I also have the bigger LG battery. overall a brilliant car, enormously efficient and just a joy. such back to back tests are very important. of course the newer models always have some advantages but even the first model 3 are in my view a great buy even with high mileage.
Only thing to be careful about: if people did not install mud flaps that is bad for the door sills and the stones and gravel can easily damage the paint and produce corrosion later on. and since that is then not from the inside it would not be covered by the 12yr corrosion warranty.
BUT/: if one has the tesla mud flaps I would highly recommend to take them off once in spring and clean behind them since they accumulate dirt. no big deal, I led Tesla do it when exchanging thee air filters anyway (I have high mileage already after 10 months ;) ) and it cost around 15€ 😂 not worth doing it oneself for that little money
With the next software update, you can also see the power drain separated per system, like HVAC and drivetrain. As the energy in the battery pack is higher, is it also a heavier battery pack? And more thread on a tyre is also slightly less efficient. So in the next test, include mentioning the weight and pressures, but also try and get the same tyres... and make sure the same settings are kept like autopilot, support mode and cabin temperature.
Good point about the weight. Every little helps (or hinders).
Weight can make a difference bug from tests Bjørn Nyland did, it actually doesn't make that much difference. In fact one car he loaded to the gills and got a better consumption result (!) but he thought there could been a small gain from slightly lower ride height with the extra weight.
I imagine the spoiler and number plate could make a significant difference.
Another great review & comparison between oldish & new 3s. But the other cars with over 300k miles - wow! I'd normally shy away from high mile cars but goes to show but it would be interesting to see costs over the year's. Also, is their a significant weight difference between u & Gibbs re efficiency difference? 🤣🤣Thanks Rich👍🏽
😂😂
I have had my 2019 3P since march 19, its been very reliable and hasent cost me a lot in services.
Running costs quite low, it also uses quite little energy for travel. So even quick charging on vacation is ok since it goes quite far on each charge.
Most likely I will sell it now for a YP though (berlin one). I did testdrive an YP some days ago and I have two on order (will just keep one of them from the order).
I got 304 miles (well I did 284 miles with 7% left) all motorway driving the other week in my 2022 LFP RWD. Autopilot set to 68/70. And mine has the square numberplate on!
That’s good. I love the rwd cars and they’re just so incredibly efficient
Didn't know sticker number plates a thing. Love it!
Neither did I! Turns out California just approved a program to use these here as well!
Hi Richard, great vid as always. I got pulled by plod for having wrongly-spaced number plate S1 2EBU instead of S12 EBU and got £100 fine but they didn't comment about the stick-on plate at all.
Of course, I have no idea of its impact on efficiency as I get 298 Wh/mile with the way I drive (mostly motorway)
I was thinking to myself that the decal number plate is probably the reason for the tiny efficiency advantage, but you arrived at the same conclusion. 😆👍
Great video. I look forward to the older high mileage model s review
I did drive a model 3 LG new from okt. 2021 for 6 months and got a new one few days ago and the new one is a bit more silent and it feels a bit better on bed road, like a bit better put together. I noticed it right away when I drove off that Tesla made some upgrades on chassis.
I was going to say the number plate when I saw them side by side! I put a stick on one on my performance model 3 and seen slightly better range since, to the point I’m always beating the range estimate!
Would the older car be “run in” better? Brakes, bearings, gears in the motor etc?
Another good informative one. I hope you get to do an interview video with those two Gents. It will be very interesting.
Nice Video there Richard 👍🏼
Cheers from Germany
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Just a note to say that stick on numberplates are legal in the UK, so long as they use the correct reflective material and have the appropriate BSAU mark. The law doesn't distinguish what a plate has to be made from, so long as they conform to the BSAU standard and are produced by an authorised shop. Of course, there are companies who do not sell compliant stick-on ones.
Superb episode and the quality look of those high mileage cars, impressive
Interesting. I would think the new chip, plate and spoiler, plus maybe a bit of extra weight. Most of what you mentioned. I'd like to see a 2022 and a pre heatpump 2020 say. Out of interest, My 2020 M3LR is as efficient as my wife's Model Y 2022 with heatpump. Obivously a more efficient shape, but still a suprise. Maybe a 3LR vs a ModelY LR would be interesting! Anyway, thanks, good stuff :-)
See this video for pre-heat pump v heat pump model 3…
th-cam.com/video/RdVqqvWQMl8/w-d-xo.html
There are more sources for better efficiency on oder models:
- the older battery already had the initial "optimization" cycles (on the oder side, if it's too old, then has too many cycles...)
- all bearings and moving parts (from the engine, tires, brakes...) have already the "running" where friction parts have already adapted to each other.
I would be more interested to know if the build quality (which includes wind and noise isolation) is compared to equivalent cars, where tesla has been lacking...
Richard, the slight efficiency difference could well be the extra weight of the larger battery. Not sure what the weight difference between you two is as well. If you really want to get nerdy about figures, maybe you need to even up driver weight as well by adding some ballast to lighter driver (assuming there is a difference of course), but we are just ironing out very minor differences here.
A spoiler definitely affects drag. If it is designed to increase downforce, it will distinctly cut efficiency.
A spoiler like that won't increase down force it will just reduce lift, technically it may actually increase efficiency as it could lower turbulent airflow attaching to the rear of the car. However, being that small it would only move the turbulent air back about 5cm
I think its down to 3 major things Numberplate, tire mileage and the mcu with ryzen processor vs. Intel
How about the ryzen cpu, that apparently uses a few percent more power? Might be the cause of the difference in range?
10% of a bigger battery will take longer to charge as more needs to go in. I doubt that’s the reason but it will explain some of it. Interesting as always Richard. Thanks. Where can you get the vinyl plates from please?
I'm not sure about the legality, but older cars such as the E type had stick on plates.
Vinyl plates are totally legal. What the plate is made from is not legislated, what is is the font size, actual font, spacing and required to be a reflective material. I got mine from proplates online.
@@dirkdiggler69 excellent. Thanks John, they look loads better. I am guessing it’s an easy switch
Bit of a pig to put on in that getting it straight and the air bubbles out. Think like putting a screen protector on your phone but fiddlier. Pro tip, spray some soapy water on the bumper, this will let you move the plates a bit when you put it on so you can get it just right. It will dry overnight and the plate won’t move when dried. Good luck.
@@dirkdiggler69 it's a shame that cars here in the UK have to display a front number plate. Motorcycles haven't needed one for years. I can still remember removing mine from my Bonneville.
Both cruising at the same speed blocking 2 lanes - surely that's reserved for Audis & Volvos !
Nice video,like always. I wish i was there to say hi as i use that charger quite often. I have a LRMY with 20 " induction wheels. As the winter is coming i was thinking if its such a big deal to buy the 19" gemini wheels for winter time. I have to mention that i work in taxi industry and i do high mileage. Thanks for your videos keep up
Always enjoy ur videos! 👍
Richard - I've just ordered a wdird model 3..... its the model 3 long range RWD rather than AWD. Have you eeen anything about this... what are your thoughts? Slower acceleration but 394 range?
Always enjoy your films as I feel there is always something new to discover in the world of “Tesla”!
Great comparison test guys, I really love this sort of fact-checking. Certainly, with the massive attention to detail that Tesla put into their designs, that sodding great brick of a number-plate housing in the middle of the most critical areodynamic section of the whole vehicle is like sticking a flat licence plate on the nose of a jet aircraft. Not going to assist smooth airflow much, particularly at higher speeds. Someone at Tesla UK needs to be educated. I have the same model, but it's company car, so can't change it. Also consider the loosening-up of moving components in the drive-train over time.
Worn tyres less grip and rolling resistance, plus tyre pressures? Interesting video. No to suspension-it's too firm. Customer service said to put after market dampers on!
Charging depends on where you parked, and who is next you you? Right. I do a lot of long drives across the US. And I have starting charging where I am the one and only, and get great charge rate. And when it get to a busy, the charge drops, and it takes longer. It depends which charger you pick. If someone pulls out, it gets faster.
Curious, is the 2022 Model with the bigger battery (slightly) heavier than the 2021 Model??
Not been able to measure
Take the plate off and re run, I’m sure you have trade plates to put in the window.
Nice test 👍
Hi, Richard. Just watched an American guy on You Tube talk about his LFP Tesla battery.
He's been charging it to 100% constantly, and found - after 7,700 miles - the battery has degraded nearly 3%. So he's stopped charging to 100%, except on long journeys.
Apparently, the recommendation to fully charge relates only to obtaining a more accurate idea of the charge to range ratio, not for the sake of the battery.
The guy says he's not too worried because, even at that degradation rate, the batteries won't fail until the vehicle hits 350,000 miles. I don't think he understands the range will become impractically low long before total battery failure.
Just thought you'd like to know there may be an issue with 100% charging - even with LFPs.
@RSymons. Which car would you recommend/buy with your money?
2022 Tesla Model 3 SR
Or
2021 Tesla Model 3 LR
Not sure if much has changed between the years in the form of tech or changes.
Thanks!
2022 model - LFP battery @ 305 mile range.
Difference probably created by driving style and tire wear. Great video.
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And potentially battery weight and driver weight differences.
Nice editing, with the snoring bit. :)
Great video guys👌
It would have been interesting to see if swapping cars made a difference since driving style will have a big impact, even when both cars are essentially being driven at the same speed.
I had an old boss who drove as if his accelerator was a switch yet most of the time was no faster than any other cars around him. His fuel and tyre consumption were horrendous.
Richard's calculations are a great cure for insomnia 💤 😴
I'm a bit late to the party here, but for anyone who ends up wondering why the difference in efficiency, the main contributor is most likely the use of the hungrier AMD chip in the 22 version.
Stick on number plates - whether or not they are legal, the facts that your plate does not display BS AU 145d (or e) and no maker name or post code on them makes them illegal by default in your case here on the '21' car. Good video about the cars Rich, thx 🙂 Am still wanting one, even with stupid electric prices and no way of home charging. I want to enjoy the Tesla tech so badly. 👍🏻
this will be a good review
@RSymons RSEV I think the difference is due to the different battery LG vs Panasonic. The old one i bet it's from Fremont Usa ( you can check the last letter of the VIN ) and the new one is from China Shanghai. The old one has the Panasonic one thus more efficient and better charging due to the fact that its tested. The LG ones there will be in par in future updates. Cheers, great videos as always.
The 2021 is a China car, 75kwh, we assume Lg
I i order a basic Model Y today RHD for ireland:
will it have
a LFP 🔋 ?
double glazing ?
a heated steering wheel ?
Old tires lead to lower rolling resistance. And the tire pressure increases consumption by minimum 1% for every 2.4 psi of lower pressure.
For buying used is the 2022 car worth the little extra over the top of a 2020/2021 car with the same mileage?
Great testing as usual 👍
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I reckon it is the stick on number plate. I have it on my Model 3 2022 LFP. Lifetime efficiency is 201Wh/mile.
That was an incredibly boring video - and I enjoyed every second of it! 😂👍
Check the recent video from Fully Charged - that spoiler really makes a difference for the worse range.
Would love to see the high mileage Tesla video 👌
i think it is a combination of all the factors u mentioned :)
Efficiency change? Speed difference? Could it simply be tyre pressures (or even different tyre batches)? The other small differences likely all fall within experimental errors.
That number plate will make a difference - especially at higher speeds. The arrival at final destination because of charging speed may be a red herring? Amount of energy added would be different to return to 80% on both cars.
I think it needs an in-depth analysis, not a ‘gut feeling’ as you drive along.🙂. One journey (swallow) does not make a summer, as we say…. Enjoyed the video, all the same.
Hi Richard. How about a video comparing Tesla vision with the existing radar/camera collision prevention functionality that you tested with cardboard Elon in your traffic light drag race alleyway. Would be interesting to see if it’s better or worse now. 🧐
Does the 2021 car have the older Intel processor which uses less energy?
Yes, one reason for the higher energy consumption.
Interesting.., that much energy used by Ryzen?
@@RSEV yes, I believe that was also the reason for the bigger battery.
Also I assume you had the sentry mode set the same on both cars?
@@RSEV When I ordered the M3 LR in January 2022 the information about the range drop was due to the new AMD Ryzen. You also may have a bit higher internal resistance in the new battery? Therefore the slower charging?
Could it be the stick on number plate vs the black plastic number plate surround on the newer model???
I must say they look good without the aerocaps.
Are the tires the same brand? I know in the 3P they went from Pilot Sport 4S to different tires, might also have changed for the 3LR?
Yup. My money would be on greater drag - number plate and the spoiler on the ‘22
It is the extra weight of bigger battery?
Rookie mistake on the efficiency measurement - the preheating could be slightly different between the cars. You should really have not navigated to the charger :)
The charge speeds are quite dependent on the source of the battery pack cells. If you have the older panasonic packs you get the highest charge speeds, which is what the 2021 car here probably has. The 2021 cars can also come with 75kWh LG cells, and those charge slower. The larger 82kWh pack is also LG, and slower.
The overall efficiency remains the same if you pre-heat or not. All that happens when you get to the charger without pre-heating is that the battery heater comes on and the car charges slower until the pack has heated. Pre-heating just consumes that energy while you are driving rather than sat on the charger. You either get a more efficient drive or a more efficient and faster charge.
You could argue when the car is driving it has more options to raise battery temperature without using extra energy, when it's stationary it can only actively heat it.
Finally, this is a comparison of two vehicles capability. Pre-heating is part of the capability and if one car does it better then that is relevant to the test being performed. They also drove the cars for 50 miles without pre-heating and the older car was still more efficient.
@@insanityideas - I don't think the displayed efficiency does ignore the battery pre-heating whilst driving. It counts all energy used whilst moving. It will ignore the heating whilst stationary though. At least that is my experience with my Model 3, which does a lot of battery heating cos i live in central Norway.
Yes, you can argue that it is a test of the two car's capabilities, but the larger capacity battery probably has slightly greater weight. It certainly has a different materials make-up, which means a different (probably higher) heat capacity and a different amount of energy needed to heat it by the same number of degrees.
@@15bit62 Exactly my point, they were trying to compare two different cars but keeping other variables the same. So if the bigger battery does have more thermal mass that will affect pre-heating and therefore overall efficiency of the vehicle when on a trip involving fast charger use. The fact the bigger battery is disadvantaged by pre-heating is actually relevant to the test they were doing. And it will be relevant to any customer that regularly does journeys using DC fast chargers, because even if they don't pre-heat, the car will insist on heating the battery whilst it's charging meaning that a bigger battery charges less efficiently.
@@15bit62 I use Teslamate with my car to grab some extra data because I was curious about how pre-heating worked and if I could save electricity by turning it off and suffering a slower charge (conclusion was that you can't, and actually heating whilst driving may use less energy on a plug to wheel basis)
You are correct, the on screen efficiency numbers are all energy out of the battery, so when the car pre-heats the battery during a drive displayed efficiency does go down.
The amount of extra power used varies, it can be using extra 7kw just to heat the battery, or as little as 1kw (measured from Teslamate realtime power consumption with the vehicle stationary during pre-heat).
What the car doesn't show you is the efficiency of the charge session, it shows energy flow rate into the battery, but Tesla supercharger and all other chargers bill for energy delivered to the car.
So if you turn up with a cold battery it will take 7kw of available power from the charger to heat the battery, and that's completely wasted energy (unless it's a heat pump car and the weather is cold, in which case it will heat the cabin from the stored heat in the battery). This is why if you plug into a slow 50kw/100Amp DC charger you might see a charge rate in the car of 27kw rather than the possible 35kw that the charger can achieve and is delivering. This is the difference between what's delivered to the car and what makes it to the battery.
Note: Partially discharged battery has charging voltage of 350v which at 100Amp is 35kw. All those 50kw or 120kw chargers only achieve that power level on 500v or 800v cars. The number that matters is the Amps that can be delivered, which is hidden in small print on the charger rating plate.
AC charging is usually more efficient in this regard because the car has a much lower battery temperature target when charging at slower speeds. Still needs to heat in cold temperatures, but during the summer it's just running the coolant pump to keep temperatures even, no heating or cooling is taking place.
In response to original comment… 158it
Firstly we did say in the video they both started preheating at the same time. A sign battery temps were the same.
Secondly, the second part of the journey did not include any preheating as it was back to the office. Same results… and despite the newer car using the aero covers.
FYI 75 and 78.8kwh Cars. We never had the 82 long range, only in the performance.
Difference comes from Ryzen computer in 2022 + number plate. The new computer uses far more power to run and it runs all the time.
Spoiler is also a factor but normally those increase efficiency.
How many battery replacements have the two high mileage cars had?
Rounding is to full kW, so with such a short distance the error is large. In the worst case, one could have 21.49kW and the other 21.51kW, which is a difference of 0.02kW and not 1kW as you said. You are looking for differences not where you need to.
could it be the more worn tyres on the 2021 have less flex (less energy losses) on the tread blocks (because of the shallower tread depths) and into slightly different compounds as the tyre wears down?
I had a nice nap in my car in that car park once upon a time 🤣
You had a truck backing up making the beeping sound in your video. I paused twice to see where the truck was. Hint. Not at my house!...
can you put the later light on a 21 plate?
Did you ever catch up with the 2 model S drivers and do the video about their maintenance journey on the high mileage cars Richard ?
One thing to also remember is that the 2022 Models have the AMD Ryzen system which drains a bit more electricity than the Intel Atom Systems in the 2021 and earlier models.
Yes not something I’d considered until reading the comments.
But I still think it’s the number plate 💁♂️😂
@@RSEV You could be correct about that my friend.
Does the 2022 have the LFP batteries?
No LFP is only the Standard Range
How come the processors weren’t mentioned? There were a number of articles saying the Ryzen processor decreases the efficiency of the car, hence the reason why Tesla started fitting the larger batteries?
God they look brilliant... just like mine! 🔥🔥🔥
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You driving these at 70 mph and still getting 4.3 miles/kWh is excellent. Good news.
My 2021 LR only shows range of 247 @ 80% does that mean my battery is degrading quickly
Going to guess it's down to the older tires vs newer tires. Older tires are MORE efficient because more rubber has been used and they roll easier.
I’m curious, shouldn’t the 2021 have had more battery degradation (~10% in the first year) compared to the newer model? Therefore it would have charged quicker since it has less total capacity left?
It’s common Tesla charge a bit slower with new battery pack’s until they gather more data and then push the speed up later in a software Update.
Great video! Surely though with a slightly larger battery, the percentage charged will start to drift between the two cars?
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I agree with the stick on number plate. Is there clarity on whether they are still legal? I hear so much conflicting chat on that
It’s a very grey area isn’t it on their legality. Some say they’re not after a certain (recent) date new… but I’m not clear…
One like on this car certainly is correct font, spacing, reflective etc so I really don’t see the issue if all this is in place
@@RSEV I've had mine on my model 3 since April 2020 and not had any problem but would like to have one on any new Tesla I bought in the future. I'll just keep my fingers crossed 🤞😁
@@RSEV following watching this video (great, as always, by-the-way...!) I did a bit of research...
So long as a registration plate meets the requirements of the British Standard BS AU 145e, then they should be perfectly legal, stick-on or not.
SO WHAT DO PLATES HAVE TO BE UNDER THE E STANDARD?
Durable and able to resist:
Impact - Stone chips and minor parking collisions are unfortunately part of driving. The impact test ensures the plate’s longevity.
Bending - The components that make up a plate can separate from each other when the plate is bent. This is sometimes called plate delamination. The bend test prevents delamination on BNMA member supplied plates.
Thermal change - The UK’s changeable temperature necessitates this test. The plate’s shape and size must remain the same when subjected to heat and cold.
Abrasion (NEW) - Plates stay clear and easy-to-read if they pass the abrasion test. This protects against repeated exposure to dirt, road grime and jet-washing.
Being removed from a vehicle - Provided adhesive pads are placed correctly along the plate, it will take over 160 hours of consistent pressure to detach a plate that passes the E standard.
Weathering - The weathering test under BS AU 145d remains the same under BS AU 145e. It’s a key and extensive test and replicates 2,275 hours of UV exposure; 2½ times more than some other European number plate test schedules.
Dirt - As a subset of the weathering test, plates must be able to resist simulated dirt.
I hate to say it, but I think the manbun is responsible for the difference in efficiency.
How do you check the battery size? I have a 22 LR collected Aug 22 and Tessie is reporting 78.8 kWh usable capacity
Yes so that’s the newer bigger battery.
isn't the speedo GPS based in Tesla?
I think the dead flies on the new car knocked the miles off and the driver was lighter and in the old one and turned he blower and radio off to mess with your head.
Difference in weight between the drivers?
Need to do one of these vs the BMW I4 eDrive 40. Noise, comfort, efficiency, the works. Would make for a nice video. What say you ?
Have something in the pipeline for exactly this 😉
Just taking a while for BMW to release hundreds of cars that are sitting built and made but under recall and cannot be handed over.. 🤦♂️
@@RSEV Looking forward to it. Keep up the good work.
2022 also has two reverse/fog lights and bigger indicators 👍