It's easy to forget that the "tank" in a Model 3 LR is equivalent to 2.5 gallons of gas in pure energy. It's so efficient normally, that things like pre-heating seem "expensive" when we are used to burning 10x the amount of "fuel" in an ICE car without even thinking about it.
One liter gasoline/petrol fuel indholds 9.5kWh and one liter of diesel fuel in holds 10.7kWh. Assuming 75kWh battery capacity in M3LR, the equivalent in is 7.8 liters gasoline/petrol or 7 liters diesel. Considering a fossil car has a 50 liter reservoir drives about 1000km best case, and assuming a M3LR drives about 500km with a full charge result that M3LR is about 3 times to 3.5 times more efficient than a fossil fuel car.
4:00 I think onboard charger generates heat during AC charging. On "Rich Rebuilds" video, you can see, that the charger is also liquid cooled, so Tesla probably takes the heat from onboard charger, to the battery.
Can you show this with a SR+ RWD or LR RWD? Perhaps a time comparison between how long a RWD vs AWD takes using afterburner to heat the battery cell temp.
I guess, if you don't take in account the cheapest hours to charge, the most efficent way to preheat the battery is charging slow and make it last untill you get in the car in the morning, so the battery stayed at a nice temperature and won't have too much work preheating before getting into the car. I tried this last week and could see in Stats app that the car was taking only 1-2 kw from the plug in about 10 minutes of preheating. Normally if the battery has been cold and not charging for 2-3 hours, It can stay 30 minutes picking 3,6kW from the plug (my maximum charging power at home) and losing SoC, all to preheat... My garage temperatures this days are between 10 and 14ºC.
Interesting. I am curious how it is in my SR+. As smaller battery it takes probably less time to heat it up during driving. But as it is only single motor (so only one 3kW "afterburner") it takes probably more time to heat it up during stay/charging. When I am pluged-in 13A-230V = 3kW Schuko and started to preheat the car, I am loosing also some % from SoC.
@teslabjorn you should try to start preheating using the option "Hi" from the app and after a minute choose 20°C in this way the battery should start preheating the battery immediately.
when you are "ACTIVATING PREHEAT" - is that just by turning the car / cabin HVAC to ON ? or are you doing something more like telling it you are going to a supercharger nearby ?
Yes, you can schedule charging+pre-heating. You tell the car when you are planning on leaving and what charge level you want. I only used it once myself and then I left a lot sooner then I originally planned so it didn't really work out for me. But there are probably some videos on it.
Hi Børn, I am a power electronics engineer from DK, M3LR new owner. Very entertaining to see your videos, thanks! Can you please make it clear why would one desire to preheat the battery other than for improved regen power? Myself I prefer to not preheat the battery and keep a safe distance in front of me for the first 20-30km drive until battery gets heated by the losses in motor(s) - that feels more energy efficient to me. However it would be interesting to know if we can use the battery as a heat storage tank if the excess heat from motors will then be used for cabin heating. Could you see with Scan My Tesla if that could be the case?
Maybe I was not clear enough. I am pro preheating the cabin especially while plugged in, I always do it for 5-10 minutes, max 15 minutes. But I am not certain what advantage I get preheating the battery also, except higher regen power. I never preheat the battery, just the cabin for max 15 minutes.
siliara, I have nowhere seen reports about LiIon battery lifetime degradation if discharged when it is cold. Charging when is cold is software limited to protect it. The impedance is higher and perhaps is not best to do drag race like that due to limited discharge power. So still, for regular use I find very few reasons to preheat the battery, but there might be something I don’t know on the way the HVAC system works.
In my view, Tesla fixed this when they let you set a "ready to leave" time. It then charges the battery which heats it up, and it gets the cabin to temp for that time.
Is it the same to just press the fan icon in the app, and go into climate and press the windscreen icon? Does only one of them heat the battery? Interesting video btw
Unfortunately Tesla has changed the heater wattage location in 0x2B3 and ScanMyTesla has not updated so your heater readings are all wrong. Hopefully Amund can update SMT soon. You can also read heater voltage and current (to calculate power) from 0x345. Also suggest you show cabin temperature on the screen so we can see things heating. I will do an in-depth HVAC and/or battery heating video soon.
Did you start the pre-heating from the app in all cases? If so, can please you do the same analysis when programming departure time? In my experience the car then charges during off peak hours, and starts preheating of the cabin and batt from the plug in time for it to be ready at the desired time. Would be nice to see the details!
Very interesting. And the charge level SoC must be more than 25% to secure a preheating is still possible. You are loosing 4-5% by the blue beam and then. you are over the limit 20%. Below 20% SoC no pre-heating is possible.
Do you think is normal to loose 8kw of battery charge in one night at 0° and preheating 15 mins on the morning? Model 100X. Zap charger says i put 30kw and tesla computer says 22kw used since last charge. Feels like a hole in a fosil car tank loosing a litre per day
For me it's normal. Preheating sucks 6 kW of power in cabin and 6 kW for battery. It will use plug+battery in case. The charging loss is about 90%. So it's good.
@@antoniocirino8444 thanks. I will test it without preheating. Now it says has charged 26kwh in zapcharger but battery moved from 42% to 66% (22kwh?)...maybe something wrong with bms?
It all depends on the temperature, he showed this exactly in the video, that the Car is pulling 13kw when not plugged on while preheating. That means in 15 minutes it will consume 3.25 kWh of Energy. I preheat my car every day for 10 minutes 2x a day which means in a 5 day work weak I will use 21kwh of energy to preheat the car. Which is a lot of energy and money. But the comfort of having a warm car every day and also a preheated battery with full regen than is totally wort it imo. And its obv only during the winter
@@emiliopicazo9635 22/26=0.84 pretty normal charging efficiency. 2-3 kWh for preheating is acceptable. You will heat the car with battery if you are not doing so. Is it better grid or battery? I prefer grid.
Could it be that the left heater is showing the wrong value, and should be the same as the right heater? I see no logic to it beeing different. That would explain a lot of your discrepancy's, like the missing kw during campling. And that the sum of afterburner and heater in this video is to low around the 12 min mark?
It's easy to forget that the "tank" in a Model 3 LR is equivalent to 2.5 gallons of gas in pure energy. It's so efficient normally, that things like pre-heating seem "expensive" when we are used to burning 10x the amount of "fuel" in an ICE car without even thinking about it.
That’ about 9.5 liters. It’s mind blowing how efficient Model 3 is.
One liter gasoline/petrol fuel indholds 9.5kWh and one liter of diesel fuel in holds 10.7kWh. Assuming 75kWh battery capacity in M3LR, the equivalent in is 7.8 liters gasoline/petrol or 7 liters diesel. Considering a fossil car has a 50 liter reservoir drives about 1000km best case, and assuming a M3LR drives about 500km with a full charge result that M3LR is about 3 times to 3.5 times more efficient than a fossil fuel car.
4:00 I think onboard charger generates heat during AC charging. On "Rich Rebuilds" video, you can see, that the charger is also liquid cooled, so Tesla probably takes the heat from onboard charger, to the battery.
Can you show this with a SR+ RWD or LR RWD? Perhaps a time comparison between how long a RWD vs AWD takes using afterburner to heat the battery cell temp.
He just got a LR RWD to test, hopefully we see some of these tests out of that. :D
@Bjørn Nyland think you could take up this request and post a video about it?
I guess, if you don't take in account the cheapest hours to charge, the most efficent way to preheat the battery is charging slow and make it last untill you get in the car in the morning, so the battery stayed at a nice temperature and won't have too much work preheating before getting into the car. I tried this last week and could see in Stats app that the car was taking only 1-2 kw from the plug in about 10 minutes of preheating. Normally if the battery has been cold and not charging for 2-3 hours, It can stay 30 minutes picking 3,6kW from the plug (my maximum charging power at home) and losing SoC, all to preheat... My garage temperatures this days are between 10 and 14ºC.
Tesla owner Manual explains What
Bjorn TH-cam video explains Why
Thanks for sharing this knowledge
Interesting. I am curious how it is in my SR+. As smaller battery it takes probably less time to heat it up during driving. But as it is only single motor (so only one 3kW "afterburner") it takes probably more time to heat it up during stay/charging. When I am pluged-in 13A-230V = 3kW Schuko and started to preheat the car, I am loosing also some % from SoC.
@teslabjorn you should try to start preheating using the option "Hi" from the app and after a minute choose 20°C in this way the battery should start preheating the battery immediately.
Did you use the app to see this result?
@@GagandeepPandher I have a model s and when I do like this a battery icon appears in the climate control section in my Tesla app
Giacomo David i did try this and no it doesn’t show the icon but the car is not plugged in tho.
@@nate6249 did you tried with model s?
Giacomo David sorry I forgot to mention i tried with M3 LR
when you are "ACTIVATING PREHEAT" - is that just by turning the car / cabin HVAC to ON ? or are you doing something more like telling it you are going to a supercharger nearby ?
Just turn on HVAC from app.
Bjørn Nyland what temperature do you usually set the car to when preheating?
20-21
At what battery temp will the battery not accept a charge at all? It looks like charging starts around 40f and ramps up past 60f.
Can you set a temperature for a ‘leaving’ time and the car figures out when to start heating based on current temps?
Yes, you can schedule charging+pre-heating. You tell the car when you are planning on leaving and what charge level you want. I only used it once myself and then I left a lot sooner then I originally planned so it didn't really work out for me. But there are probably some videos on it.
Hi Børn, I am a power electronics engineer from DK, M3LR new owner. Very entertaining to see your videos, thanks! Can you please make it clear why would one desire to preheat the battery other than for improved regen power? Myself I prefer to not preheat the battery and keep a safe distance in front of me for the first 20-30km drive until battery gets heated by the losses in motor(s) - that feels more energy efficient to me. However it would be interesting to know if we can use the battery as a heat storage tank if the excess heat from motors will then be used for cabin heating. Could you see with Scan My Tesla if that could be the case?
Maybe I was not clear enough. I am pro preheating the cabin especially while plugged in, I always do it for 5-10 minutes, max 15 minutes. But I am not certain what advantage I get preheating the battery also, except higher regen power. I never preheat the battery, just the cabin for max 15 minutes.
siliara, I have nowhere seen reports about LiIon battery lifetime degradation if discharged when it is cold. Charging when is cold is software limited to protect it. The impedance is higher and perhaps is not best to do drag race like that due to limited discharge power. So still, for regular use I find very few reasons to preheat the battery, but there might be something I don’t know on the way the HVAC system works.
Thank you so much for the video 💪🏼
In my view, Tesla fixed this when they let you set a "ready to leave" time. It then charges the battery which heats it up, and it gets the cabin to temp for that time.
Super interesting- thank you!
Is it the same to just press the fan icon in the app, and go into climate and press the windscreen icon? Does only one of them heat the battery? Interesting video btw
Same
Unfortunately Tesla has changed the heater wattage location in 0x2B3 and ScanMyTesla has not updated so your heater readings are all wrong. Hopefully Amund can update SMT soon. You can also read heater voltage and current (to calculate power) from 0x345. Also suggest you show cabin temperature on the screen so we can see things heating. I will do an in-depth HVAC and/or battery heating video soon.
Yes, already explained in the video.
@@bjornnyland I meant to say, it's not really a bug. The app used to be correct :)
Probably some power go to 12v battery it's charging or app buggy🤔
Already explained in the video.
Did you start the pre-heating from the app in all cases? If so, can please you do the same analysis when programming departure time? In my experience the car then charges during off peak hours, and starts preheating of the cabin and batt from the plug in time for it to be ready at the desired time. Would be nice to see the details!
From app, yes.
Very interesting. And the charge level SoC must be more than 25% to secure a preheating is still possible. You are loosing 4-5% by the blue beam and then. you are over the limit 20%. Below 20% SoC no pre-heating is possible.
*losing
When you say preheating. What settings do you have? Do you just press the defrost button?
Yes
Bjorn are you going to purchase model y or keep the 3 since they are almost the same??
I think Tesla are sandbagging, the Model Y will be a big step forward.
Hei Bjørn
Hvorfor exporter du ikke scan my Tesla data til CSV for å så imponert det i Excel?
Conclusion: From this 20 minute video, there is a need to be able to pre-heat the battery without heating the whole car!
Just set it to charge thru the app by sliding up the charge level and it will heat the battery without heating the cabin.
Do you think is normal to loose 8kw of battery charge in one night at 0° and preheating 15 mins on the morning? Model 100X. Zap charger says i put 30kw and tesla computer says 22kw used since last charge. Feels like a hole in a fosil car tank loosing a litre per day
For me it's normal.
Preheating sucks 6 kW of power in cabin and 6 kW for battery. It will use plug+battery in case.
The charging loss is about 90%. So it's good.
@@antoniocirino8444 thanks. I will test it without preheating. Now it says has charged 26kwh in zapcharger but battery moved from 42% to 66% (22kwh?)...maybe something wrong with bms?
It all depends on the temperature, he showed this exactly in the video, that the Car is pulling 13kw when not plugged on while preheating.
That means in 15 minutes it will consume 3.25 kWh of Energy.
I preheat my car every day for 10 minutes 2x a day which means in a 5 day work weak I will use 21kwh of energy to preheat the car. Which is a lot of energy and money. But the comfort of having a warm car every day and also a preheated battery with full regen than is totally wort it imo.
And its obv only during the winter
@@emiliopicazo9635 22/26=0.84 pretty normal charging efficiency. 2-3 kWh for preheating is acceptable.
You will heat the car with battery if you are not doing so.
Is it better grid or battery? I prefer grid.
@@likandooTV- 3 kWh for preheating in model x is normal.
This link is not working :) Model S&X (containing both TDC adapters)
Could it be that the left heater is showing the wrong value, and should be the same as the right heater? I see no logic to it beeing different.
That would explain a lot of your discrepancy's, like the missing kw during campling. And that the sum of afterburner and heater in this video is to low around the 12 min mark?
woah