Better than an Amiga?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2021
- Is there a retro computer released at the same time as the Amiga that's better at playing arcade-style games? I check out one contender and put it into a head to head with the Amiga.
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The X68000 blew the Amiga away in terms of power, but it was also far more expensive. Part of the Amiga's success was its entry level price which made it way more accessible to everyone, so in that respect the X68k wasn't really an alternative.
Commodore dropped the ball with the Amiga though. They just didn't bother to really update the system over the years, and it stagnated. Even the A1200 was just a partial update (audio and Blitter were pretty much the same as the previous Amigas).
They had a real chance to overhaul the system with the ECS and add things like more audio channels, blitter X/Y Flipping, and more hardware sprites, but it was almost identical to the OCS.
Agreed the A1200 needed to be more of an upgrade then it was. It just couldn't keep pace with a VGA/Sound Blaster/486.
Nothing hurts my heart more then giving a like to an Amiga competitor :'(
Sure, it's better. But it was released 2 years after Amiga, and costed 5 times more :)
Good video bro :)
@Ryukenden Not to mention 8bit sound chip in Amiga computers...
Even in Japan, the X68000 is positioned for expensive enthusiasts.
In places like Akihabara, where discount sales were the norm, I was able to buy the X68 main unit and CRT set for about 340,000 yen.
When it came to X68000 PRO, it was 298,000 yen with X68 + CRT + game software + cyber stick.
At that time, the salary of an ordinary Japanese man (20 to 30 years old) was roughly 160,000-250,000 yen.
Considering that it was equivalent to 1.5 to 2 months of salary, there is no doubt that it was expensive.
The rival NEC PC-9801 series was the same or even more expensive.
The X68000 was a dream PC at the time, and was the dream machine of many PC boys in Japan.
However, in Japan, the NEC PC-8801/9801 was too strong and the X68000 never succeeded.
Many criticisms of X68 are that it lacks software and is unusable for work.
Most popular RPGs, adventure games, and simulation games were for PC-8801/9801.
It was often said that the X68 only had action games and shooting games.
In 1985, a nearly completed prototype of the X68000 was distributed to various parties for operation testing.
In the fall of 1986, the completed machine was announced on TV and in magazines. And it was released about half a year after the announcement.
By the way, development started in 1982.
At that time, I saw many articles in Japanese PC magazines about the Amiga's high performance and high functionality.
Everyone around me, including my friends and acquaintances, thought that Amiga and Mac were better PCs, and overall I still think so.
Even in the X68000 magazine "Oh!X", there were several writers who praised the Amiga over the X68.
I've seen many times that the Amiga is great here and the X68000 is not.
I am using google translate
I'm sorry if there are any funny parts.
Thank you for the insight into Japanese home computing Yoshitaka, I didn't even know if the Amiga was known of in Japan.
@yoshitaka7642 When I lived in England I almost bought an X68000. When I first saw it I was really impressed with the few games I saw. I talked with the guy about it and asked about getting one and software. I knew getting software for it was going to be a problem (I've owned a couple of systems over the years that you just can't get software for) but the guy said it wasn't a problem. Next time I saw the guy he decided to sell his system, but I wanted to see more software and know a bit more about the hardware before I commited so I went to his place and he had a number of games (most were great) but that was all he had so I asked about some applications, he said it wasn't a problem to get them but would take a few days (I'm sure he had a contact in Japan and was downloading them via a MODEM) Next time I saw it, he had expanded his games and a bunch of applications. I found that there were a bunch of throw away games typical of any system, but that was OK it was to be expected not every game was gold. But when it came to the applications and my introduction to the inner workings of the OS, that was where I was blown away by how antiquated it was. I was shown a number of what I was told were the best apps on the system Now I don't speak or read any kind of Japanese so I knew that was going to be an issue but that quickly became a non issue because the interface was just so badly done on everything. On top of that graphics packages were sorely missing features, ray tracing were non existent and the fractal landscape program was awful. I wanted to do some programming on it but with all the other programs just being so poor I just said no thank you. Now maybe he wasn't showing me the best stuff, but what I do know is I still haven't seen any better demonstrations of applications for it.
When you hear about how the Amiga came about it shows in its design. Jay Miner wanted to build a computer, but others wanted a console, so the compromise was with his small team he designed a computer that was highly integrated and could be cut down for a console. The X68000 looks like they just wanted to build a computer that that had everything for gaming, no regard for cost. The Amiga has few chips in its production, where as the X68000 is a mass of chips.
I do think that the Amiga got lucky with the OS and that allowed some great applications to also come to it.
Do you know of any Japanese systems that got a decent OS, because from what I have seen that doesn't exist.
The Google Translate seems to have done a decent job
I really think the games comparison were very unfair. You should show Amiga 500 exclusive games, not rubbish Arcade ports, or XenonII which basically were an ST port. If you showed exclusive and compared the genre (catagories) you would get a more fair feel for what the differences really were. Games such as Agony, Project X, Apydia, Fighting Spirit, Fire and Ice and last but not least Lionheart! Then the differences would not been as huge as this video is presenting them. In this video the Amiga is shown much worse that it really was. And yes I know the video was about Arcade games, but that has always been a weird comparison in my book... Sorry, do not mean to be negative.. 🙏🙏🙏
Yes. This is mostly a comparison with Atari ST games.
@@DjMetune Then poorly ported lol
Is Outrun available for Sharp X68000 ?
And how run this botched US Gold Outrun version on Amiga 3000 or with turbocards ? playable or incompatible ? ;)
Great video. Never seen this machine before. Two points: the amiga was released in 1985, not 87 making it 2 years earlier. Also the amigas development was initially (and always?) hampered by the cost of memory. Thats why the 1000 initially had only a paltry 256k. That memory was made in Japan.. It seems as though this machines big advantage was the extra memory it had easy access to.
Thanks, pleased you like it. You are right on the dates. What I had meant to say was that the A500 came out in 1987, whereas of course the A1000 came out before that, as you say.
24:55 Isn't the ST version the original? I believe pretty much all bitmap brothers games were straight ST conversions.
Most of the good Amiga programmers were making their own games back then, leaving software publishers with Arcade licenses to pick up teenagers to convert the games.
I think it would be cool to compare proper original Amiga games such as Lemmings on both platforms or to compare conversions from the likes of Ocean France (Pang!), Elite (Ghosts n Goblins) and the Sales Curve (Ninja Warriors), not that I expect the 700$ Amiga to beat the Sharp but it would be interesting to see how large the gap is with games that take actual use of the Amiga's custom chips.
I think that the X68000 would have been a niche product in the west due to its price, western adults with that disposable income generally weren't that into games, and its underwhelming OS, making it more of a toy or C64 functionally wise than a good productivity machine. I think Amigas were more popular in Japan than the X68000 for content creation and broadcasting due to this.
Commodore also had a major brand recognition advantage over Sharp in the west.
If it had a western release I think it wouldn't have anymore of an impact then when people imported them over, no threat to the Amiga line as they aren't really direct competitors.
Sharp wanted to bring an Arcade machine in your home and they excelled, the Amiga corporation wanted to create the ultimate PC with the best OS around, very different products for different segments. One being better in some regard than the other doesn't make the other completely obsolete, I think the Amiga and X68000 would have been able to co-exist as there isn't any overlap with each other.
I can't sleep
I stand corrected on Xenon 2, then! And I agree with you on the different ideologies behind both machines which resulted in different outcomes.
What's the super clicky joystick your using in the video...... ?
Ha! Microswitches forever! It's a QuickShot QS-137F, which is handy because it switches between multiple joystick formats.
Quickshot did some crap sticks and some good sticks. I have a Quickshot Maverick 1M AKA "QS-138F" It is a microswitched, two button (you know that thing most people don't think exists on Amiga), switchable multi-format Commodore/Atari, MSX, Amstrad, Sega, has a switch for autofire and oddly has 2 leads coming out of it so it can be plugged in to port 1 and 2 for switchable two player games. It's a great stick but it's noisy
Is the next video the difference between a PS5 and a gameboy??
Bravo! Good video :)
Thank you! Cheers!
Bubble Bobble on Amiga is ST game Tiny Bobble on Amiga is much better version to compare. I love both machines :) Sadly X68K hasnt got rich library of games also homebrew scene is really quiet :/
Thanks - I don't know Tiny Bobble. I think the thing is that Bubble Bobble shouldn't stress an Amiga so a close copy of the arcade version ought to be possible.
@@wrangleramiga896 Tiny Bobble is an OCS Amiga remake for the Amiga, proving that the Amiga was more capable of doing an Arcade version. The same team did Tinyus which is a Gradius port, really quite close to the arcade original while still running on an OCS Amiga.
Very industrial and unusual design....tons of stuff happens in Japan that we never hear about.
I've always liked the X68K from the few shots it got on some gaming magazines at the times... Two things would be interesting to compare: one is the "non gaming" software, the Amiga was a creative powerhouse and had an excellent OS, not sure the X68K had pre-emptive multitasking for example. The other thing is the price of an A500 or A2000 vs the average income of the times, and the price of the X68000 in Yen vs the general income in Japan at the times. It will be still a very expensive machine, but maybe a bit better (or worse :D )
everything is decoupled on X68000. The sound is managed apart, the graphics are managed by chips and not the 68000 directly. Of course the X68000 is a multitasking machine :)
@@dlfrsilver It's not a matter of the machine, but of the OS. SX-Windows, the GUI based OS of the X68000 used non-preemptive multi tasking, Amiga OS was preemptive
I’d say Tinybobble is on par with the X68000 version.
I see that the Amiga is running all the games slower whereas the X68k seems almost arcade perfect. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that the X68K version has a higher frequency cpu and more memory in general
Yep, and different custom chips. But it also cost a _lot_ more as a result. And as others have pointed out, I have sometimes picked games where the Amiga versions aren't done that well.
You get what you pay for ultimately.
Also, the Amiga was designed and released several years before the Sharp X68K.
So it should be the better machine... of course.
And no.. Lionheart is not AGA.. Many think that! 😂
In the area of arcade games, the Amiga had particularly bad luck, with most conversions being low-effort cash grabs. The X68K was more potent hardware-wise, to be sure, but the contrast wouldn't be nearly as stark had the Amiga gotten adequate support from competent developers.
Developers weren't the problem. Publishers were. They gave dev teams very little time and resources to do arcade ports, plus the Amiga line was never really updated hardware wise, so it lacked a LOT of features which were needed for fast action games.
@@nebularain3338 Fair point regarding the publishers (looking at you US Gold).
Wow, that Castlevania conversion is terrible.....no parallax scrolling, on an Amiga....really?
I'm not going to argue with that! In retrospect, it's hard to find decent versions of games for both X68000 _and_ Amiga to go head to head. Xenon 2 is one example and they are near identical.
Lol that is like comparing a very expensive neogeo "game" console to an amiga 500 computer. That is a very expensive game station half/computer with a very basic (and ugly) command line interface operative system called human68k. Try to run programs in multitasking on that, see if it has deluxe paint, imagine2.0, lightwave, final writer, vista pro, real 3d, scala, art department pro, image fx etc.
As a computer it was much mucb worse of even an atari ST TOS based system. At this point I would compare an original arcade board to a commodore 128 or the likes lol
This debate never seems to end. The Amiga 1000 came out (according to Wikipedia) around July/August 1985 while the X68000 came out around March 1987. About 1.7 years. Hardly "at the same time". Simply going by Moore's Law, the number of transistors more than doubled in that nearly 2 years. And like others have said, the Amiga 1000 suffered from minimal memory and in the nearly 2 years, RAM prices dropped a lot.
And, let's not forget PRICE. When could you buy an "Amiga killer" for the same price point the Amiga had? Was the Sharp 68000, the VGA/486 or the Mac ever as cheap as an Amiga 500 WHEN THE AMIGA 500 was still in production?
Having said that, maybe you should compare and original XBox to a VIC-20. They came out about the same time.
Calm down! :) It wasn't the A1000 being compared anyway was it, it was the A500 (1987).
'stats' are not what makes an amiga better.
I think this really provoked me abit! hahaha. NO HARD feelings! But Castlevania VS Lionheart! I mean WHY, WHYYY could you not show that? Hahaha.. 😂😂😂Okey, I will stop! Have a great day!
was better? yes. were mum and dad going to get you one at that price? no...
I'm with you. Actually, I think Dad would have got one for his own exclusive use! :-D
Don’t worry; the Amiga version of Final Fight IS rubbish. The Sharp X68000 version is arcade perfection. The Amiga version is garbage.