5.0L vs 351W vs LS-SHOULD YOU SWAP?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- FULL RESULTS-STOCK AND MODIFIED 302, 351 & LS. WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE FOR YOUR FOX OR SN95 MUSTANG? UPGRADE OR SWAP? FORD GUYS SHOULD LOVE THE 302 AND 351W OPTIONS, WHILE LOW-BUCK GUYS WILL NO DOUBT CHOOSE THE LS ROUTE. THATS WHY I INCLUDED DYNO RESULTS ON ALL THREE OPTIONS.
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The 351, Windsor or Cleveland are the secret weapons of the ford catalog. They make fantastic power with huge aftermarket support. For me, bottom line , Ford in a Ford. Chevy in a Chevy. Built Ford proud!😎🇺🇸
I never said the Cleveland was a small block. I should of said the forgotten weapons. You clearly missed the whole point.
@Wakanda Forever 351 is a small block...
@@rodfatherschopshop6004 is this guy talking about the crap Ls1's that cannot be rebuilt due to the cintered metal components in them?
@@makattak3550 where is it not rebuildable?
@@jubjub905 the cintered metal the LS1 uses.... totally not reusable.
I'm gonna say the 351W, that usable torque and hp for a street car is fantastic.
There was a time here in Australia when five one clevelands were cheap and common in the wrecking yards and could be swapped into a 6 cyl falcon in a lazy weekend. Those were good times
Yes I’ve got a 351 Cleveland with the Parker funnel web intake, mechanical roller cam, TRW flat top forged pistons, factory crankshaft, 4V closed chamber headed. On a 175 shot low 9’s in the 1/4 mile. Best motors ever!
@@StainlessTIG2 you are pushing what 800 hp? How much does that car weigh?
big Hurtt I really don’t know how much HP it’s making. The car was a 81 Capri all gutted with a roll cage. Car still had the factory K-member with bump steer. I’d say 2800-2900 with me in it. My mustang is all Team Z front and rear suspension with willwood lightweight disk brakes. I’m running a Performance Automatic Racing C4 transmission. The mustang will be a little lighter but a all around better car. I’m hoping for some high 8’s ? I’m building another Cleveland with the same camshaft and Parker funnel web intake. It’ll be a long rod 3.5 stroke Cleveland with aluminum heads, aftermarket block.
Dang how Long ago was that
@@jorgearmando1805 id rather not talk about it as it makes me feel old and decrepit!
No LS in ford ever for me. And that was a fair comparison. If it’s fair to compare a 5.0 to a 5.3 then it’d fair to compare a 5.3 to a 5.8. And it held its own
Yeah even the 4.8 Ls made more than the 5.0 ,impressive when boosted too
@@christopherhamilton4373 they are pretty good. i love all
@@christopherhamilton4373 5.0 does good for what it is but the heads on even the worst preforming ls slay the stock 302
Yeah the 5L heads were not that great. But back in the late 80s and early 90s, it was still a lot better then the 5 liter (305) in the iroc-z.
@@kcdesignconcepts5216 so many engine in the 80s just sucked ass lol
Holy cow that 351 really opened up with those mods. Those factory ones really had it chocked up.
Mine went from 15.4 seconds in the 1/4 (stock 351W 4bbl with headers) to 12.2 seconds with the Edelbrock RPM package. Had to run drag radials to get there though.
@@edjackson4389 Holy fuck that's just insane. Not even these triton engine do that well without selling a nut for parts or a blower of some kind.
@@TheTruthBeToId you cant beat the sound of a cammed 4.6 though
@@monstermash479 God no. Sounds so good.
@@monstermash479 If you think a cammed 4.6 sounds great you should hear a cammed LA 318. I'm no Mopar guy but those motors just sounded so pure, like a trip back to a 70's drag strip
I actually just went through this exact predicament. I opted to have my block machined and I built a 331 Stroker. Love the LS stuff but I like the “whoa you kept the 5.0 on it, nice!” When people see my Fox
heck yeah bro, def better to keep the engine you already have, imo.. i don't like swapping dif brands, Ford Ford, Chevy Chevy is how i see it..
How much did you spend? How much power does the 331 make?
Yep mine is a 331 as well. Funny thing is every time I tell someone that they've never heard of it and think I have no idea what I'm talking about
@@BRob1320 yes, exactly. It's the safer stroker motor
I built my 5.0 because I didn't want to be bothered with the other stuff involved in swapping. I just kept my eye out online for used deals on, H.C.I
Only thing new is gaskets.
It’s just something about keeping Ford in a ford that I have to build by.
I absolutely agree. A Tech that I work with is doing a 5.3 chevy with a turbo swap on a 96 Mustang GT. I understand why he's doing it but I just don't agree with it. Keep a ford a ford. Just doesn't seem right.
Amen
The easiness of making power reliably and cost effectively and availability for parts, is very such hard too beat of swapping an ls or a small block Chevy into a fox.
you see my user name. it has blue oval in it. i've got 2 in the driveway, ford has been good to me. i've also got a gmc out there with a 6.0 ls. i'm very impressed with that engine and would take that over a 302 or 351 any day. i get it the idea gut that 6.0 moves a 4x4 3/4 ton truck better than i expected.
I definitely get why people do it and am not against it myself. Easy reliable cheap power. Great platform. I just get extra excited when I see a well built sbf in a Ford. To each his own. They are both great options and I would build one of each if I could afford to. Lol
Love the 351w. Sounds amazing and has great potential.
I have a 351 Windsor in my 86 GT Mustang and I love it. Stock Bottom end with dished pistons and has the heads and port matched to a Edelbrock Victor JR intake which the heads have 1.90, 1.60 valves. 498 lift 280,290 duration summit hydraulic cam double roller timing chain, BBK shorty headers with H pipe Dyno max turbo tube 2 1/2 inch exhaust. 600 Holley double pumper MSD distributor,coil, and ignition, C4 Automatic 3000-3500 stall converter and shift kit, 8.8 rear with 3:73 gears with a rebuilt elimentated slip . Homemade traction bars, subframe connectors, new struts/shocks drive shaft safety loop. It has a 8 point rollbar, Hurst Pro stick, 5" Autometer tach, Grant steering wheel, Aftermarket Recarro looking seats with 4 point safety belts. It has 5 gallon fuel cell which is temporary along with the battery mounted in the trunk. It has 4 core radiator with a electric fan. It has Mercury Capri 140 speed ommetor Togo switches and push button start. Wiring and plumbing have been done right. No short cuts. My brother ran a wire 100 amp chrome alternator, with a race mini torque starter, race motor mounts. It has new rack and pinion. I had the brakes done long time ago but could be gone over. Like I say when building this car I wanted it to run well and to be strong. It does need body work cause when I got a divorce a had no garage to put it in which I could not find a storage available at the time and a big storm came and it ended up getting hailed on which it put many dents in the top and dented up the rear window louvers and cracked the rear glass. Right now my car is Charcoal grey metallic but I plan on having the body work done and want to paint it daytona blue with white stripes so it has the Shelby color look. I swapped my 86 front end out for a 87-93 LX now I have the 5.5 Outlaw cowl hood that goes to the windshield. I also have 79-82 Mercury Capri tail lights with Capri sail panels behind the rear window side glass.
NOTHING beats the sound of a Ford V8 :-)
Id swap a built Cleveland in a fox before I went with the LS swap. Cleveland has much potential.
Facts. We have Cleveland in out 48 F1 very good motor
truth is cleveland never had enough bro thats why they never sold enough
@@MannyDelReal they went to Australia. I've seen NA Cleveland's making 800+hp. They definitely have potential.
@@MannyDelReal I'm not a Ford guy, but a Ford engine in a Ford body is cooler than just another boring ass LS swap. That shit is getting old to a lot of folks. There are other options.
in the day the windsor with the 4v clevo heads was the motor to have, the Boss motor, best of both worlds, a revy motor that breathed.
351w!
What's most impressive imho, people managed to put those mostly dead stock 5.0 ho engines into the 12s.
@@charleskeller1245 I have definitely seen 50tussin's vids. You should look into nmra factory stock racing. www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/m5lp-0612-mustang-lx-factory-stocker
@@madmod Will do thanks!!
@Kong 76 I've been in the turbo raptor with a tuner and borla exhaust. It's a 13 second truck.
Maybe the ford tech's knew something.
Guys were running 283s vs 289s on bias plys and running quick times...
Numbers just sell the car. Sometimes you need to step up and get the driver mod.
Oh and MF the LS 🖕😁🖕
@alanjrkaminski I still think the older 6.2 has more potential. It's just easier to turn up the wick on an already twin turbocharged engine.
With the money I'd save having to convert everything for an ls, I could take that modified 351 and boost it with some wuhan whirly boys and go well above the 5.3
Yes.!! So true.. an LS might be great, until you look into the total cost of converting everything, doesn't really make a good comparison for the price tag. Most people don't want to waste their money and time to redo their ride. Just saying, modify what you've got. You'll be money ahead.
Spot on !! No1 talks about those costs
@Barry Boppins now compare a true ls1 5.7 to a 5.8 Ford. Ford will lose on power and fuel economy.
@Barry Boppins I've made 1000 to the tire with boost and exhaust on a 5.3. heads don't even have to come off. Idk where you got your information but you couldn't possibly be more incorrect
That’s just not true.
There will always be a faster car so might as well pick what you enjoy and it's a lot of fun to see what the original hardware can do especially when modded!
I guess I gotta put a parts list together for a possible 3uz swap. Because EVERYONE does either Coyote or LS in old American muscle cars (yes Ive even seen some 2Js in them but they can't make good power in NA form).
Pretty big Ford fan here, have a BBF fox. I'm here to say that Ford solidly f***ed us over by swapping to modular engines and not continuing with a next generation small block. This wouldn't even be a question in 2020 if they had made a next gen pushrod 302 with decent aluminum heads and an upgraded block.
The LS has more in common with a SBF than it does GM engines, with it's #3 thrust bearing and equal spaced ports. It fits where a 302 does. I get why guys LS swap a fox, despite having zero interest in doing it myself. I'd do it in a heartbeat to an import or something else that doesn't have any decent options from the factory though. But I get it, GM cars are generally heavier, foxbodies are easy as hell to get the chassis to work well, Ford left us hanging for years with the 4.6, and it's cheap to buy a roller fox without an engine and a truck LS drivetrain.
I really look forward to some of these cars getting Superduty 7.3s in the future and going back to Ford power to make things more interesting. The world is boring when everyone runs the same engine under the hood. It's the next generation small block that Ford waited too long to make, with 445 cubic inches out of the box. Most Ford fans here would be pissed if they knew how many years Ford had the "new" 7.3 on paper before it finally made it to production. I certainly was.
Let us know when the first 7.3s start showing up on your dyno Richard. They have a modular bellhousing, so a 7.3 6R80 or 4R75 swap should be cake. Small block sizing. No direct injection to dick with; just a cam phaser to tune or lock out. Ford finally threw us Ford guys a bone.
I agree I hated when the 4.6 came it ruined everything for me but don't forget the new 5.0 is a monster it runs with LS1 I just hated it isn't a simple pushrod design
1 word = CLEVOR .. Outflow LS heads. Use the 351 block if you need over 500hp. 347 Clevor is a potent combo. Magazine guys had Cleveland heads available to them in the 70s and 80s.. and didn't write about them. I remember Zero Clevor articles back then... damn shame.
Ancient technology C heads
Modern is better $$$
You must be rich
@@hotrodray6802 Airflow doesn't care about age. Box stock Cleveland heads flow 250cfm.. enough to support 500hp. David Freiburger's 408cid Clevor made 650hp with Trick Flow Cleveland Heads .. blah blah modern. Stock Cleveland 4V's can be had for $600.
800hp Clevor - th-cam.com/video/sSjzJQHRs6A/w-d-xo.html
^^dont get me started with the Aussie stuff or Yates stuff derived from cleveland heads.
Fact is GM used the 351w architecture to design the LS.
Ford could have CHEAPLY done an aluminum 351C headed Windsor to compete if they wanted but they chose to go modular for long term emissions purposes
I'd bet there was a Compression ratio difference between the engines as well. The windsor does well for an engine designed in the 60's but modern tech shows through with the LS, even modified
LS always seems like the best bang for your buck. I am curious to see a shoot out from the modern 5.0 vs LS
For the cost of conversion
Motor, gearbox, ecu, radiator, exhaust and tailshaft etc
You could build a good 5.0 for daily street and track fun.
Francis Stone. You summed it all up in your statement.
Yeah but you would be slow
It wont compare to the ls tho. Far as racing
@@major1388 351 would be a lot closer
you tell yourselves that im aussie mate Ls is way more pricey here and is still cheap for the power you yanks can pick an Ls up in stock form with cast headers box loom and ecu for less then 1000 usd for that piddly price you get a motor that makes 360hp 380ft lb for another grand chuck in a cam you have 500hp motor... try to argue that you would be even a quarter way in to having a 5.0 ford make 500hp for 2200. if your a real car guy you could just fab up your own exhaust and get your factory tailshaft modified
I've got a full on heads, cam, intake 351W in my crawler and it's stout, but my next project will be a boosted 6.0LS that is going to make 2x the power for less than what I've got into the 351W build alone. I've got two 6.0's and an 80E for $100 invested, I cannot complain. SEP 1500's already acquired...
That isn't realistic pricing though idk how you landed 2 6 liters for 100 bucks but that is certainly not typical lol.
Ready to see many 7.3 swaps!!!
11:06 the modified 351 is making close to 50 more HP at 4500rpm, and roughly 90 more ft lb. looking at the busy graph, the 351 build looks to have a better power curve across the board than even a modified 5.3 LS. #ShotsFired
pick the one you want to run
Its probably doing it with less compression too its a stock bottom end car. These swap right into a fox 5.0 it's a very easy swap. Idk why more ppl dont do it it's not like they cost alot either lol. If you rebuild it with more cubes and higher compression you can really have a monster on your hands.
@@richardholdener1727 i appreciate your attention to detail, and the passing along of knowledge. this video was an eye opener!
@@MrStangdawg I bought my 94 351W for $300 beans. Ill pay roughly $300 to get the block decked and cleaned. I wanted to go with AFR Heads and have those Ported and polished for another $200-300 per head plus valves and springs. Debating on stroking it to a 387ci or 393ci... No not very cheap but hitting the gas pedal brings a Villain like grin to my chiseled stone face. Its just for N/A fun on the streets.
@@midnight347 those 351s came with a big dished piston. Flat top piston probably would have made 11 to 1 compression
Awesome compassion and relevant to current market. Assuming no rules and racing, the LS is a compelling story. Whilst not shown, the Coyote is makes great power but will still struggle for torque and high cost. As for me, I'm sticking with my Windsor 5.0 in my Mustang, just seems right, cost effective, and enough of an upgrade path for one not racing. Keep the videos coming.
Love ur content, thank you for giving back to everyone with the things you know and the sources you have.
LSs are great engines, but LS swaping a FOMOCO is like getting a sex change.
Yep it like going from a puxxy to a full grown man!!!!!
Only a democrat would swap a Chevy into a Ford ;D
Ed Jackson that’s a damn lie, I have been a republican long before trump, I was swapping ls when people were still calling 5.3’s corvette motors, lol
@@Boostismyfriend HaHaHa! Well you were one of the pioneers of the LS swapage (back when it was cool) so of course you're a republican. Well done sir!
Ed Jackson I’m definitely more republican than Democrat and for young people like me who haven’t gotten into their careers yet, budget is a big factor, I’d love to coyote swap my 86 notch but ls motors are just sooo easy to source work on and put into basically anything. I picked up a 5.3 with accessories, harness, and computer, nice cylinder crosshatch, all for $370. The power, especially under boost is undeniable. I know it’s sacreligious, but I’m not a ford guy or a Chevy guy, I’m just a muscle car guy.
I really like this guy and the good information he provides. Some you tubers can get bland and uninteresting over time, Richard isn't one of them.
It costs basically the same to build a 302 as a 347... and basically the same to go from 351 to 408...
my personal car went from a 302 to a 351 to a 408. My 408 makes 631hp and 558tq NA to the tires. I have no complaints and In my miata it eats a c7 vette with similar mods as well as my friends turbo 5.3 and another friends built 6.0 fox body. All cars run between an 850 and 950 carb. I run an ultra xp 850.
Search 351 miata on TH-cam for the 351 and my unboxing of 408 parts
Lol it eats a 5.3 ls with a turbo lol 😂😂 yeah ok..
What you say is true if your starting From scratch and are using non of your old parts! Not vary often the builder is going to scrap every thing he has to start over! You can't by a rotating stroker assembly for the cost of freshening a 302. If your going 351 then even the intake and headers are different!
Think what you want. a built 302 costs basically the same as a built 351 at any over bore. If you are talking reusing your 302 crank and pistons and rods... you're freshening up an old motor. I'm saying it costs the same to have a BUILT motor. T5 trans will still bolt up... if you just want to go with budget... BUILT would have a tko 500 or 600 or t56. Headers are the same because heads are the same. If there is a clearance issue either buy new ones or cut/hammer on yours. I have a 351 block in a 2001 miata... youtube 351 miata if you dont believe. And those videos are before 408
@@barakelium Tell Me Were can I buy a rotating stroker assembly for the same price as I can buy new pistons and have my crank turned, and I will Buy two of them today. I rebuilt My 302 for 550 and the cheapest I could get a 347 Stroker kit was 1100
then it had to be balanced!
No way a 351w can make 680 HP unless it's a full on high dollar cylinder head and built bottom end or forced induction If you despise LS swaps just say that don't make up lies
Always love the detail of your videos Richard...... I'm a import guy but love watching your V8 videos....
That LS area under the curve is badass and undeniable and I’m a Ford guy! When I get the right deal, gonna pull my 5.0 HO EFI outta my ‘62 Ranchero and stuff a 5.3 LS in it. With the right gearing that lightweight combo should run high 12’s stock and low 12’s with a cam swap/tune.....and get good fuel mileage....I ain’t too proud to utilize cheap technology.
I always ask Ford guys, do you want to go fast, or do you just want to blow money? Get yourself a LS3 and go fast.
@MrFoxbody89 - Do you even have a clue as to the meaning of my comment...obviously not. Keep wasting your money trying to keep up HA, HA, HA
@MrFoxbody89 - You've obviously never heard of power to weight ratio. Maybe you should read a little more.
I’d stay home with my 5.3. I just modified a few days ago but a tune will be the judge of my efforts. The 351 or 302. I’m always rooting for the little guy but the 351 has a lot history on the road as a go to engine. A 351 is a big payoff if modified correctly!! Tough choice but the 5.3 is still formidable either way to Ford. Thanks Richard
I'd probably do 351W , when swapping for a 5.0, you also have to remember that most electrical connectors, ECU, engine mounts and transmission, will work just as they did on the 5.0. When swapping a LS, rewiring things, new engine management, having to make things fit a little different. Feel like it's more of a hassle IMO.
It is and it drives up cost too eating into the whole cheap factor everyone raves about. I am convinced a 351 is a more cost friendly swap for a 5 liter mustang guy.
@@midnight347 not to mention if you have a 5.0 ,I'm sure it has bolt-on parts already that can be used on the 5.8 and continue to keep the budget low
Stroker , 30 over 351. They sound so wicked. Great torque and power out put. I'm also anti LS swap.
LS heads on a 351W short block with a 4" crank and 2 teriyaki tornadoes cranked up to about 20 psi. Teamwork for the win!
A turbo 402 with big heads would be interesting.
Right Richard ??
@@hotrodray6802 RIGHT RICHARD CAN YOU HEAR US CAN YOU?
Remember that guy that put the LS1 heads on a 302?
Richard, let's see LS3 heads on 408!
Customer cam and intake, what else will it take lol?
You sound dumb
@@god1st.530 😂😂😂😂😂
Depends on your end goal. If I were just looking for a hot cruiser I’d build the 5.0 and not have to worry about making things fit or work together. Max na power, probably the 351 (I always wanted to do a windsor stroker in my old lx). If it’s a purpose built race car I’d go ls.
You’re going to break the internet with this..
Awesome video Richard!! Loved the stock vs stock and modified to modified
The video I have been waiting for. I was the first in my clique 18 years ago to do an efi 351W and most everyone else did 5.0L SC instead. We all drove each other's cars and I still liked mine better. Mind you I was 20 at the time. Made 301/362 at wheels tuned by Jerry W himself. Junkyard 351W from a 1997 F250 with 27k miles, eBay TFS aluminum heads cut to 43cc, lunati cam with 512 lift and 220 duration and 110 lsa with 1.6, new GT40 intake, 30lb injectors and 90mm lightning MAF. Totally stock shortblock even with the huge dished pistons. All accessories attached and working even the air pump on a 100 degree day indoors in Atlanta.
If it were my money, a modified 351. It would be really hard to justify the cost and work of other items that would have to change to make the LS work in a Ford. Plus the 351 does better under 5500 rpm, so it would probably be better on the street. Of course, you could also stroke the 351 to get up around 500HP easily.
Not really lol maybe street light to street light but on the freeway your gonna get gapped and hard oh and ls1 pistons can be bought used to make a iron 5.7 which makes 500 hp wheel good luck getting close to that with just boring a 351
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 You missed my point: money. For the extra cost of swapping to a 5.3LS you could have a 408 or 427 Windsor; at 3500 rpm that Windsor would make 100 HP / 160 FtLbs more than the best 5.3 LS numbers in this vid; at 5500 RPM it would still be up 60 HP on the LS. The 408 will be over 500 Ft Lbs from 3500 to 5400 rpm. Traction would be your biggest problem. To get an LS to work in a Mustang will cost around $4,000+ according to a few online articles; modding the 5.3 would just make the difference higher. That amount will get you a very fast Windsor motor. Swapping to an LS is fine for bench racing but when you have to make everything fit and actually run the money starts adding up and for me, it could not be justified. YMMV
I say, "especially nowadays" keep a ford all ford... No need to put a LS In a ford car when ford has plenty of option like the new 5.0s and the bigger engine like the 351-460 ford's... If I liked the fox body's.. it would be all ford most definitely.. no LS that's boring now🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Lame also too lol. Too many LS in everything.
@@Silkmaster4200 says the fudd who isn't doing 9's with them SBE
Problem is all the mod motors are too wide. The control packs are finicky. And all the pushrod offerings are carb biased, no control packs!
Try running a 302/351 in EFI with a ford computer: do you like torture?
LS is very compelling due to top end power potential, compact, weight, and oem control pack: you can tune that thing where it’s buttery smooth.
Biggest problem is price. I am gonna swap in an ls because 302s take too much cash to make power when compared to an ls
@@BOOSTJUNKY that's also very true.
I'd rather buy a plate to adapt an LS to a common trans or swap a whole GM package than mess around having to spend 5k on shit to make the 302 run (not as well) as a 4.8/5.3. essentially that's what will happen every time. and the only defense is the 302/351's sound magnificent. and that's it
i'm in the "only ford" camp. I had this same choice to make when I was swapping out the V6 in my 2012 Mustang. I put in a mildly built naturally aspirated Dart block 427 Windsor that makes about 500 rwhp.
Watching this video shows that it’s all in the combination up top. Ford used the same head design since 1962 and GM started with a clean sheet of paper for the LS. With the right HCI combination, the 5.0 and 351W would be a decent engine for the street or weekend track runs.
You're totally right! It's how the engine flows. This is (I believe) why GM went to the similar style heads of Ford's Windsors and Clevo's, and got away from the silly Siamesed heads of the earlier 350's etc.
I love the way the 302 sounds.
Agreed, my 302 based 332 sounds nice, just need to find a quieter fuel pump
I pick a 427 aluminum block Windsor with a big hyd. roller and short runner fuel injection.
Richard doing The good work sharing data and real-numbers
I love your positivity!!!
Ready? Long post incoming!!.......
First, and this is just a personal short opinion, I will get into more in a sec- if you want to swap an LS why not just get a Camaro or firebird? Switching Ford small blocks means you don't need to swap transmissions etc. Plus you will find a lot of hate if you are swapping GM into any Ford that had a pushrod engine. Lots don't care, but lot's do. My opinion is it is your car, and this is America.
That said, I will give something besides dyno numbers to consider. I know the internet has a really, REALLY hard time looking past dyno sheets and armchair drag racing, but what I am going to write here is FROM ACTUAL REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE as I have lived all this in my many years of car crafting and messing around with them.
First: LS motors.
LS is fine for anyone that only cares about maximum speed, and doing so without caring HOW it gets to that speed, or HOW it runs during other driving times. Are you building a drag strip car that is going on a trailer in between runs? This might be your best bet, it's cheap, it's got super aftermarket support now, it's a known entity. You can copy any one of many many internet formulas to get your car to run consistently.
Daily driving an LS..... well that's not exactly the same. Sure it's still plenty fast, it will sound good because it's an American V8. it will suffer from some of the "blahs" though, as any modern, mostly computer controlled engine does. You can fart around with other things like gear ratios and whatnot to alter the car's characteristic, but in the end....
The LS is the peanut butter and jelly engine. Tastes good, cheap, easy..... and get's boring AF after while. I have NEVER met anyone in real life in person that has told me their dream car, and it included a 5.3 LS swap into a Ford. LS swapping into a Ford is what you do because you have a budget, because you are after a result. Not because you are after a car you want to keep for 20 years and pass to your kid, or take to your small town main street car show on memorial day, etc. LS swapping is a thing that happens because of bang for the buck and results, and you should expect it to be received that way when you talk to people about it. No REAL car guy is going to bash you for it, but also no REAL car guy is going to be super impressed by it either, it's a known entity and part of a defined calculation at the end of the day.
Alright, on to the Ford stuff- by the way I am sad we didn't choose to dyno a junkyard pulled Exploder(poor man's cobra) for the stock test.....
First, 5.0
Make sure you know what you are starting with if you want to fart around with a 5.0. Ford made Mustang engines, but they also put these in trucks, and Crown Vics, and none of them are the same. Then they are different from the early 70's, to the mid 70's, not even a 5.0 in the early 80's, to the most common one people think about from Mustangs in the late 80's. Then there is the ones from the late 90's Exploders. Then there is actual Cobra motors. Each version needs a different approach to begin the tuning adventure.
Here's the thing about any of them- if you want to build this mill to be FAST you are going to replace half of it, minimum. That's really all there is to it, the heads are not going to work, the cam is not going to work, the intake is not going to work, the pistons and rods MIGHT work if you have a very particular version of this engine otherwise nope. Building a 5.0 to be FAST is it's own adventure. I am not saying don't do it. This is America. But know you are in for some time and $$ to get it to truly be FAST.
Now then, why this engine as so beloved, and why it was so fun, and why it spurred an entire generation of Ford fans: small block Ford, going all the way back to the 289, is FUN AS F%%k to rev the h3ll out of and tear a55 around town. It doesn;t even have to go that fast, it sounds amazing, is responsive as all get out(after a little tweaking) and REAL car guys know the sound of even a slightly worked small block from a couple blocks away. Will you win every drag race? NO, hahaha, maybe some, but you will smile every time you get in the car.
I built a 94 mustang, started ten years ago, sold it to my boy a couple years back now. I tuned it for romping around on County trunk highways on slow bends etc. Rear end 3.55, tuned my exaust for sound, left suspension mostly stock(all new though, put in edelbrock shocks/struts too) computer tune, etc. Prolly added 40HP at the wheels. FUN, just cruise, bang through the gear, smile contently at the sound, and I put GIANT rubber on the back so if I wanted to hard launch/clutch dump that doofus in his duramax at the stoplight I would hook and the car would lunge to 30mph almost instantly. Drag race? NOT EVEN ONCE. Daily drive? For 6 years, every day weather allowed(upper midwest) and now the boy does too.
This should be your goal with a 5.0, FUN. Not I MUST WIN, not drag race champion, not ultimate speed. Just high revving daily driving fun. I mean this is America, do what you want, but it will cost you $$$ to do it.
Keep in mind, the bore is significantly bigger then the stroke=likes to rev, can make lots of peak HP at high end, harder to maintain flat torque curve like that without boost as you climb that scale. This engine will last longest, be happiest, and bring the most smiles as a daily when a mild build that balances manners(responsiveness) and peak power. Sometimes in hot rodding "the biggest ultimate bestest" is not the most fun.
Ok, I know it's getting long, but here is the last part.
351w.
Since Coyote, this seems to have fallen out of favor. Shame. Ford made this engine since the 60's. Remember most 5.0 had a 50 oz balancer vs a 351 28 oz, first and foremost if you are swapping. I say this because you can reuse a lot of stuff from a 5.0 onto a 5.8 when you swap, but not the flywheel! But I will leave a lot of the technical stuff to others, just remember to find good info if you want to do this, and depending on the vehicle it can be super simple or can require a bit of hoop jumping.
I will talk specifically about this engine as it pertains to mustangs, or otherwise fairly light vehicles with reasonable aero(so not 4x4's). Something magic happens when you put one of these into a car that Ford did not offer this engine in from the factory. There is a reason they did not offer this from the factory. These engines are square, meaning bore and stroke is almost the same. It makes them "balanced" when you start to tune them, meaning HP and ft/lbs tend to not fight each other. It is possible to make a HP monster with an almost flat torque curve.
I had one in a 1984 Mercury Capri. I had headers and a large diameter dual exhaust. I had a nice aluminum intake, and a GIGANTIC Carter AFB sitting on it. The Capri had a hood scoop, I cut a hole in the hood and my air cleaner fit nicely through so I could get it in there without a custom cowl hood. It also meant the scoop was now functional and fed right into my air cleaner/filter. I tuned it super rich, and advanced the timing a lot, and had an msd 6AL box on the car to make sure I could keep the timing well.
The car had an 85mph 1980's speedo. Poor, poor 85mph speedo. I wrapped the needle all the way around until it got to 45mph the second time. I do not know how fast I was going. My wife would not ride in the car. The engine just pulled, and pulled, and pulled. It didn;t care if I got on it at 20mph or at 70mph. There is a reason Ford did not offer a 351 in their cars. When I was in high school I always wondered, always had to argue with the chevy 350 guys about displacment and how Ford kept up or won with 50 cubes less, etc. After High School when i put this together, it became quite obvious why Ford did not put a death machine like this in the hands of the average Joe public. Look what Saleen did with a 351 in the SN95 cars. Saleen S351R. If you don;t know what that is go look it up.
So, you build a 351W for HOW it drives. HOW it goes fast. My Capri wouldn't launch like my 94, it would blow the tires off. It drove around town...mostly fine. it rode the highway, pretty well actually, but I couldn't really PUSH it, it had too much. My 94 was mega fun to cruise in because I could push it. The Capri was a monster.
I will say though also, if you just do a very mild bolt on 351 swap, you can have a car with as much power as a fairly well worked 5.0, but it will have very mild street manners comparatively because of the higher, flatter torque curve. You won;t need a lopey cam to get the power, which means you won;t have to do a 3k+ rpm launch from every stop sign to prevent the car from snubbing.
So when you are looking at stuff like this, make sure you have an end goal in mind. Are you trying to win all the time at a drag strip? Are you trying to prove something to anyone? Are you building this car for your own enjoyment and will never line it up against anyone? Do you have enough open road to drive a superbeast safely on, or a track to go to?
LS: predictable, cheap, follow the formula for speed
5.0: rev happy, perky, roadster style fun on the backroads probably the easiest daily driver to build
5.8: either do a mild build to have a faster car with daily street manners, or build it into a deathtrap. There are videos of guys with single turbo 351 swapped mustangs on youtube street driving and launching from stop lights if you want to see. Just don't expect to want to drive that to work every day.
Just remember there is a lot more to enjoying a car then dyno sheets.
Damn, that was so well worded it makes me want to 351 swap my Chevy now 💀😂
@@lucysmith4242 I am glad some people are getting something out of it!
What kind of Chevy?
davenhla it was kind of a joke as I have built LS in the works, but a rusted out piece of shit 72 Nova. Enjoyed reading your comment 👌🏼
@@lucysmith4242 oh I figured that much, there is like no aftermarket support to swap that way anyway :p My uncle had a Nova when I was a kid he swapped a 350 into. Fat tires, traction bars, the whole works. Shiny maroon with chrome, that was a cool ass car. That will be a fun ride when you are done!
I put a 351W in my 65 Mustang hatchback in the early 90's before anyone thought about it. Engine built by JBA in California. Why because nobody in Wisconsin was doing the swap and they had the headers and motor mount figured out. Also they had the new at the time J302 heads. Motor made 425hp and flat as a board 400 plus in torque. I still own the car same engine. Used to vintage roadrace but now just street driven.
I love this comparison. I believe that you did a great job of showing the reality of what Chevy has done vs. what Ford has done. I would love to say that Ford's are better but the bottom line is that Chevy is great at making HP for less cost. If your goal is to make peak HP for the lowest cost the Chevy is a winner. I will point out that behind most winning high HP low budget packages is a 9" Ford diff. All manufacturers have their strong points. I say build the best package that you can for the money and let the best builder win. Some people will win with money, others win with knowledge and experience. It's the exercise in building that makes us all the better for the effort.
I have a 1940 Ford PU and I would never put a GM motor in it. I have 351w bored and stroked to 410” aluminum heads with 208 intake valves Super Vic jr intake hyd roller. I love it. Cheers
Richard thank you again for more great content! Would you ever consider posting up your tune files for people look at and learn from?
To each their own i guess. But, i think brand should stay with brand motor. Ford with Ford power, Pontiac with Pontiac power, buick with buick, etc.. chevy for boat anchors.. Lol.. Its the world we live in.. Anything goes.. but, for me, ill stick to my roots. Ford power for Life!
Me too, its like hooking up with an ugly chick on gov. assistance..lol
Cringe
I’m an LSx guy just because the aftermarket for LS is so huge and plentiful, hard to choose with so many manufacturers, they’re compact little engines AND A LOT of dudes specialize in computer work, tuning and support etc... I got a Ford buddy who struggles with the things, but that’s just in my area
That is a very good video right up to the end. NO Ford guy will LS swap his car, those who do that are just car guys or Chevy guys wanting a cool looking car.
They want a lightweight car. GM cars are lame, Ford modulars are pretty lame (save for the Coyote). It's really easy for a guy who isn't invested in either brand to swap an LS into a Foxbody.
I'm an old school ford guy and I still like hearing about all these types of comparisons. I like the fact that the newer motors are more efficient and make more power, however I'll never swap a gm into any of my Fords for whatever the reason. I don't race though, I only run my vehicles on the street. If I was a racer, maybe
I’m a ford guy ,, honestly, i cried a little bit .
70s technology will always lose to 90s, i will keep my 5.0 fox engine in my sn95
@@roknroy1 early 60s.
We do not need a GM - China owned LS in a Ford.
@@tomhamilton9140 what??
@@turbolq4 While General Motors isn’t entirely owned by a Chinese company, it does rely on its partnership with Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp to keep the money rolling in. Both of the companies formed a joint venture in 1998. SAIC sells companies under the General Motors name, even if customers don’t realize it. SAIC has its headquarters in Shanghai, while GM has theirs in Detroit.
I have a 92 fox with a Ford lightning 5.8 motor swap and it's a blast.
No you don't
@@hell-sol5240 add me on snapchat for vids of it lol
@@codyc722 I put that on the wrong shit my bad dude. And nah I certainly believe ya. I've seen that swap done and I'm sure it is a blast. Did you keep the Paxton or Upgrade it or put a bigger pulley or anything?
Super informative and detailed, love it! Subbed.
Great video!! I actually had the Edelbrock RPM package with a much better Crane roller cam and 11:1 pistons in a 1969 Mustang 351W back in 2005. I was very happy with the performance, it had a ton of power, and I liked the fact it didn't have the heart of a bowtie under the hood. Sounded great too. Had to sell it pay bills. Now, Im ready to build another one, but this time it'll be a Fox body with a 302 stroked to 347 and better flowing heads than the Edelbrocks. I wouldn't even consider a Coyote swap. Too much extra money and BS
351w for me, Godzilla in the future!!!
20👍's up thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great show
Love the videos!!!!
You know that leaves no thumbs up you need an odd number
Thanks for coming
@@richardholdener1727 I'm not even breathing hard
I'm proud my 03 Envoy has an aluminum 5.3 LM4. Can't wait to boost it
I love all the charts put up. Please, please, please make them just a smidgen smaller so we can see the numbers on the left. Thanks for all the work you do.
An LS install when there are perfectly good Ford options is just wrong to me. Admittedly this is a bit of a money is no object option, but I'd love to fit an alloy block 351W stroked to 427 with CNCed alloy Cleveland heads flowing 320ish cfm with a 625 - 650 lift cam, single plane manifold and dominator. Should be able to go better than 13s with that.
13s? Lol
@@diyguy6054 In a cargo van maybe.🤭
burn baby in a mustang fox body should be faster than 13’s. 4.10 gears.
You can do low 12s with the stock stroke 5.0 if it has the RPM to turn to make horsepower.
Youd probably be shifting at least 6500 RPM.
Thats where I like pushrod carbureted v8s. 6500 to 7000 rpm shifts that run on pump gas with little maintainence
Being an Aussie, Cleveland. LS certainly wouldn’t beat out a Cleveland like that.
Thats the truth
rightio matey whatever you say
Richard already said the cleveland was the most powerful small block he ever tested
@@clintlawson2455 with what on it 5k AUD of heads 2k AUD of cam and high comp pistons?
@@clintlawson2455 I'm not saying don't like Cleveland's and I'm not saying take one out of an already Cleveland powered car but for swap purposes there's no way to beat an LS you can run them on carb and cut some costs there an LS swap in Australia with a carb setup and msd 6ls ignition controller and a nice cam could probably be done for 6.5k not 10k plus to swap a clevelend in and make the same power the LS made factory
As a ford guy on a shoe string budget, the LQ4 hands down was the way to go. What ppl are wanting for 351W, might as well go dart block for a few hundred more.
Thank you keep the v8s coming!!!!
Also would like 302 vs 4.6 2v
Why would you compare a LS with a stock 302, one is a modern engine the other was developed in 1962!
Only way a chebby can beat a ford . If from the same decade , the 5.0 and 5.7 chebby suck vs ford . LS Smellesh...grossly overate piles of f&$k.....I'd rather have pink eye .
@@mattwillson8280 Alright, let's look at the 4.6 2v from a 1998 vehicle that Richard did a video on back in February. We'll say that the 4.8 and the 4.6 2v cost about the same from the wrecking yard, give or take maybe $100. Not looking too good there on the HP for the 4.6 2v, only 260. Maybe give it some cam? That's better! It's almost on par with a bone stock 4.8! How cute. And it only cost nearly $600 for just those cams. We won't talk about what that 4.8 will do when you throw $600 at it.
I don't care what motors anyone uses, all the manufacturers have their shit that they think doesn't stink. It's all fair game to me. Dollars/HP, 1/4 mile times, smiles per gallon. It's all in good fun.
these are the 3 most basic budget swaps.
Egg Boi. I agree with you, run what you want and what makes you happy.
Fact...you can bolt an LS head onto a 302.
* does LS swap. Rides around on 15 year old Chinese tires. Ends up on TH-cam crashing mustang leaving a Cars and Cataracts
It's amazing how many videos there are of Mustangs crashing at a Cars and Coffee event.
@@andyharman3022 which suggests how powerful they are. the average yo-boy can't handle more torque than "vee-teck, yo!"
Yup, cuz they don't know how to handle it.
@@albertgaspar627 so basically what your saying is mustangs are for wannabes because there's plenty of ls cars at the same events making the same power and more but they aren't butt fucking crowds of people
@@dieseldong4781 or mustangs make torque and LS makes HP. Or LS cars have traction control to save little boys and Foxbodies were made for men who don't need traction control. Or aliens are really pink and not green. or that you think you ate bacon this morning but it really was ham.
Excellent just the facts video. Don’t know what the thumbs down people could possibly be unhappy with.
I would like to see a video on late 70s early 80s smog motors, stock vs un smogged vs degreed stock cam with properly set timing, vs good cam for said crappy stock motor....
Tiny valves, tiny ports, and low compression is going to make that a pretty miserable comparison.
He was on live yesterday and said he does his cams like most people do at home and thats dot to dot
Degreeing is just a blueprinting proccess. Maybe it'll gain power if the camshaft is just manufractured a lil off.
But add more initial timing and limit your mechanical like youre supposed to do anyways in a performance application and that'll most likely take care of it and make it idle better
@@TheKiltedYaksman1 late 70s big block mopar would like a word.
There's a few Ford 400's making insane power on TH-cam (think 351c but bigger,) just takes a little work to get it done.
The 5.3LS is great. I have one in my 2018 GMC Sierra 1500. But I also have a Ford Racing 5.0L in my 76 Jeep CJ5. Keep these vids coming!
2018 5.3 in a 1500 isn't an LS bud, it's a LT...
@@trentdawg2832 L83
Hack Fabrication yeah LT based .. not LS based anymore .. still a bad ass engine though
Great video. I would love to see how a 331 and 347 stroker would compare.
Good video, thanks Richard.
I'm one of those guys you're talking about. I have a ford that was available from the factory with a 302. I went with a 351W in it because of price and the easy of getting replacement parts.
The big benefit that wasn't really discussed in the video is all the extra parts like headers, engine mounts, etc. A lot of those parts designed for a 302 in a certain application will work with a 351. In 20 years, I will still be able to go to autozone and pick up a set of replacement engine mounts for my application.
If somebody wanted to put an LS in my car, they would be shopping for custom made boutique engine mounts and headers. In 20 years, after the LS fad dies off and is replaced by the next hotness, nobody is gonna be making all these LS swap parts anymore. Once the junk yards are picked clean of LS motors, the aftermarket support will drop off.
I went the 351w route. Seems like anymore all you see in fox bodies are ls motors.
awesome..
These are NOT Ford owners, Government Motors wanna bees, I you wanted a Chev, why didnt you buy one ?????
Because the are soooo frigging awesome, and far more dependable than any ford product out there
@@trentdawg2832 no they aren't.
@@trentdawg2832 that why they keep eating lifters, rockers, and water pumps?
Great test, very interesting. I know some people only see the numbers on the dyno and couldn’t care less about where that lump of iron was cast. But I’m a Ford guy to the core and I would never run a bow tie in a Ford. If I couldn’t make the Ford work I would rather buy a Camaro or something and run the LS in that. But that’s just me.
I took an 83 GT shell and built her from the ground up to look like a late 80's 90 LX. At the time I was working for Ford and found a new set of 69 W 4 BBL heads, still in the original boxes. Found a good 302 block and built from there.
A lot of head work. Ports match with intake, Weland along with shorty headers (custom) Valve train matched to heads and fuel system. Bottom end was customized as well with 11.1. 93 oct only for this girl. Believe, if I remember right she ended up being a 321, when all was said and done.
Dana rear end with 3.73 gears. Ignition system was an MSD with a rev limiter. Whole thing matched and balanced out.
Extremely beautiful black with tan interior with BBS gold center wheels. Made to have 4 whl disc brakes along with custom suspension. Coil overs from and back.
Handing was much better with the suspension being custom and dropped 1.50 in the front 1 in the back.
She did not handle as well as my 88 951, but she was a lot of fun.
Ford with Ford period. Cost more to build a good solid Ford motor, but power was never an issue. T5 was the biggest issue with the girl. She would eat them up. End up having to spend a lot of money for a good trany to hold up with the power.
The girl scared the hell out of me she had so much power for such a small car, but was such a blast to drive, even at 9 mpg on a good day. Never met another car on the street that could handle her.
Thank you for all your work! Would you please consider talking about the appropriate cost for different combos you put together? Just something like "$x in upgrades over stock ".
Great video!!!!
LS is just a newer better built SBF.
If u build a SBF with parts of the same specs as LS. The power would be alot closer. Im sure LS have better tech/geometry built into it which will be why the SBF will fall alittle short. Personally i would never crossbreed brands.
Ls is all roller stock less power loss also ls has bigger cams from the factory so aggressive can for a Ford is just barely tickling a ls
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 i agree but if giving the same head flow same lift same runner size and length same cam secs and displacement they would be closer in power with the LS having alittle more but not enuff to do a swap. Just. Build a better motor
5.3 has higher compression ratio so it will make more power with all else being equal.
@@s0meguy809 I agree. @Richard Holdener should test this. With getting the specs as close as possible including compression ratio
@@deonh8447 it would be very close with maybe MAYBE a very slight edge to the ls. People act like ls is God and ford engines can't make power. The ls is just newer and comes better equipped out of the box. Its about head flow, cubic inches and compression and the ls is usually higher on all fronts so obviously its gonna make more power lol. Give the Ford the same cubes same compression same head flow itll be pretty damn close and the slight bit the ls may be out in front isnt enough to warrant swapping it. It's not gonna cost that much to build a high compression 408 with some good heads. They can be found cheap in junk yards too and the 351 block can handle alot more power than the stock h.o. 5.0 block.
Build the 351 into a 408 or 427 and that LS 6.0 is in trouble... build a 331 or 347 and you really have something. The LS swap is fine but the ford block can get it done.
302 for life. It's all about the sound for me. I don't think there is a better. Sounding engine. I can't really explain it. Yes, other engines sound great, just not like a 302 with 40 series flowmasters.
The 5.0 in my f150 just went out and ive got a 4.8 already but was thinking 351w so this is a great comparison
‘92 and ‘94 Mustang here, , both LS swapped, LS3 and LS3 416 respectively.
smart guy lol
It's pretty hard to beat the power and reliability per dollar spent with a LS chevy engine the GM performance 6.0 450 horsepower long block crate engine iron block aluminum LS3 heads with a very mild cam is 4300 dollars it may not be the most powerful LS engine but at 4300 dollars performance and reliability for this kind of money is great power at a affordable price
A stock junkyard 6.0 is about $1500 change cam and valve springs for about $500 make 500 HP save $2300
@@timothywalker2273 maybe with 200,000 miles on it putting a cam in engine like this is a gamble and is no way it's going to run as good or as long as the new crate engine will with a junkyard motor that your buying no telling what kind of piston ring wear cylinder wall wear or bearings wear a complete 6.0 for 1500 dollars will have 200,000 or so miles maybe its life was in a work van or truck over loaded with heavy equipment or a heavy trailer and worked to death it may workout great it may not I've purchased 3 LS engines 1st one in 2008 a LS2 crate engine with CNC ported LS3 heads for a 1984 Monte Carlo SS very close to mint from SDPC it was 8700 dollars it had upgrades had this car since new just sold it in December 2021 and it still ran as good as if it was new probably put around 12,000 miles on it it was maintained impeccably during the time l owned it the 2nd one was a 5.3 from a wrecked 2003 Tahoe for 850 dollars complete that had 48,000 miles on it in 2011 l had someone machine the heads and put new valves on the LS1 heads and put a LS1 camshaft in it it was put into a 2002 short bed 2wd Silverado l ran this truck to 2018 it was my daily driver and probably the best vehicle l ever owned 3rd one was a LS3 495 horsepower crate engine with CNC ported LS3 heads with upgrades from SDPC without the fuel injection and coil packs it costed 6200 dollars l purchased coil packs and a 102 mm throttle body separately it's in a 2011 inferno orange Camaro SS with a load of other upgrades a built 6L80e automatic transmission with a Circle D 4200rpm stall converter aluminium one piece driveshaft ZL1 fuel pump and injectors it has about 975 miles on the new setup and runs on E85 there is no such thing as cheap l bought a very very clean 2011 Camaro SS for 15,000 dollars with 103,000 miles on it pulled the engine and transmission and put another 16,000 in upgrades into it new aluminium radiator underdrive pulley 1.5 suspension lowering springs new struts new tires wheels brake rotors bearing hubs to name a few just about everything is new but I've got 31,000 into it fooling around with cars with performance parts is not cheap
@@gloriamaletta8667 oh sorry I thought you were a hot rodder I see you have lots of money that tells me that you sometimes drive spirited I thought you were one of us engine oil coverd beer gusling idiots that build brake and rebuild old worn out vehicles bought from the local wrecking yard were you also bought the engine
@@timothywalker2273 I'm a sewer utility worker I'm not rich I'm 58 years old l work all the overtime l can in the hot florida sun many days in a sewage filled 8 foot hole repairing sewage pipe that is under pressure l don't spend money at the bar rarely go on vacation live in a conservative home that's payed for and daily drive a 2004 Buick LeSabre I've been pinching pennies and saving my whole younger life to get to where l am today l am far from rich my base yearly pay is a tick over 40,000 a year and I've been doing this job at the same place for 23 years l do make more than 40,000 a year because many weeks l work 60+ hours the price of everything into my car doesn't include labor I'm talking parts if your a working class person it is anything but easy to have a nice performance car with the price of performance parts today yeah I'm so rich l have a secured loan on this 2011 Camaro SS that l owe 9000 dollars on and pay 400 a month for a 12 year old car yeah I'm rich alright
@@timothywalker2273 here is a great example l purchased 2 Mickey Thompson front tires for my Camaro they are 18 inch skinnies Mickey Thompson sportsman S/R LT 28×6-18 for a pair they costed over 790 dollars shipped to my house this doesn't include mounting or balancing or valve stems l would have to work 60 hours in the hot florida sun to make this money after taxes in a week to pay for them and wait until the next paycheck to afford to mount balance and put new valve stems in them they costed me a weeks pay including over time for two very skinny front tires when l was 20 years old l remember getting 15 inch tires new for 26 dollars each
Mod 351 - Drivability and power under the curve in a genuine daily driver street application. Up to 5500rpm the 351 owns the LS. Thereafter the LS flexs its muscle and with more power and higher RPM is suited to Street Strip use . Horses for courses
Just what the doctor ordered. I'm trying to decide between these 3 right now for my fox.
Go 351. It will he cheaper, easier, and you wont be disappointed
LS = Lameass Swap In A FORD
The stock LS head flow is way above the Fords heads, unfortunately. But if you wanted to do an apple to apple comparison, I'd have the cylinder heads that flow the same amount, same cam and same style of intake, an re compare. In theory they should be much closer to each other.
*fortunately.
Because the way it was made clearly isn't fair...
Compare 50 year old stuff to current stuff 🤔
Ford quit producing the 5.8 in 2000 the 5.3 started in 99.
@@dylanbauer5227 You're very right about that but the 5.3 wasn't designed in the early 60s. That's what they're getting at.
D. Ford Godzilla 7.3!
That motor is getting so overlooked by the engine swap crowd.
SUB SHOOTING 84 because it’s not in junkyards for $200
789 hp 7.3 with custom everything rockers camshaft valves pistons rods pushrods I’d say 50000.00 with engine or 12000.00 big block 540 770hp that Richard did a few episodes back that’s why no one is even thinking of Godzilla lmao attacking your wallet
Sure, if cost per hp wasn't a factor...
SUB SHOOTING 84 def not overlooked, it’s too heavy, and won’t help smaller cars as much as a coyote or ls could
I'm doing a ls swap mustang in my driveway right now.. turbo car tho nice video Richard
I love the LS fanboys that want to swap one into everything. I’m not saying they aren’t a good platform, as I swapped a Gen III 5.3 into my 67 Chevelle, but 99% of people don’t factor in the cost of the entire swap. I paid $180 for my complete 5.3, but was a few grand more into the entire swap and I did it properly. Sure, you can drop a junkyard 4.8/5.3 into a Fox, but make it run. Build a trans, do the wiring, exhaust, cooling system, mounts, accessory drive, tune, etc. That money could go a long way with hopping up a 302 or even building a 331/347. And yes, I am a Fox owner as well. They’re light enough cars to begin with and putting one deep into the 11s while remaining streetable is easy as falling out of a tree.
If I did an LS swap I think my subscribers might lynch me LOL. 351 all the way for me.
Being a Ford guy, a stroked 351, or a stroked 460 would go in. If I really wanted an LS, I'd go find a Nova.
I didn't even opt for the stroke on my BBF. New AFR Bullitt heads on a 466" stock crank short block. Makes well over 600 hp/600 lb ft on pump gas. Bigger runs hotter; too many people overlook what a stock crank BBF can do on it's own. It's all new and wasn't 20K to build like most GM guys will tell you. You can build the same thing for $7-8K today.
@@ChevyConQueso I hear you. I don't want a race motor. I want that off idle torque of big inches. Just like Rich's other video yesterday about displacement. With a 4.3" crank fitting with no need to clearance, or a 4.5" with minor clearancing, full rotating assembly for $2k... Maybe some Kaase heads though! Not to mention I'd be putting it in a heavy Lincoln Mark III or an '80's wagon.
big fun of the Channel. LOVE YOUR CONTENT...Richard can you please do more 351w projects. like one with TFS 11r 205cc and trick flow setup. Edlebrock is good but TFS is better on SBF. and BOOST!!! then do a shoot with 5.7l LS vs 5.8l 351w with the same mods.. i think that would be a great comparison. displacement would closer
I love the its your choice to keep it the same manufacturer I've been a mopar guy for 40 + years 383 big block if you find to short comings of a engine and improve them it will make power and different
351 power band looks good but it's hard to argue with ls compact size and weight. However, if it comes to Mustang, I'd choose coyote lol or just a 3 valve. It's kind of not fair to compare 5.3 ls to a 1989 engine it's just different era, 10 years apart. 3 valve would be more fair comparison in my opinion. Thanks for informative content
The 89 351 doesn't do that well stock it was in an old 80s truck but once you out modern heads cam intake on it it makes badass power and it can make alot boosted even on the stock bottom end. I'd go 351 if I was swapping an old 5 liter. If I'm swapping a 96 up mod motor car I'd go coyote it's a direct drop in basically on mod motor cars.
LS in a Ford, just ain’t right. Plus, you’ll be struck down by lightning, for even thinking about it!
Amen!
THAT!
Lol, in the LS fest there were lots of Fords foxes with a LS engines. I guess those people have gotten struck by lightning, because those things were faster as hell.
Waste of a good LS!!!
@@s10issues84 That's a true hot rod!
Had an 88 convertible fox with a 5.0 block stroked to 5.6 with heads, cam, intake, and full exhaust. Made 457 horses and 402 ft/lb. Plenty of power for what I did with it. Plus it sounded pornographic.
Ford Performance powered 460ci Windsor in my Stang! Yes still a small block 575hp 575trq .. pushrod FTW
Your videos have convinced me that the next motor I build will be a 351W with my TFS heads and intake, and a Powerstroke turbo. I'm shooting for an 800hp turbo 351W.
I’d strongly recommend looking into the Aussie “blue thunder” clevor heads for the Windsor platform. They’d easily match or beat trick flows, have much more flow potential with porting, look meaner bc of canted valves, etc.
@@Greenskies321 Those are the "3v" heads that came out years ago, right? I read about those, but if I wanted a crazy set of heads, I can get them in the states for less money. I figure I could make 800HP on 10-12lbs of boost with a 351W sporting TFS TW heads and street intake. It would have great street manners and absolutely rip. Of course I'll need a new transmission and be careful with the rear end, since I've got 28 spline axles into a Torsen T2R diff. I could maybe buy some 300M axles and get away with it.
You know a stock 5.3 could do 1000hp with head bolts pistons and rods oh and still get 28 mpg while cruising no 5.8 can claim that especially not a stroker
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 1000Hp is about the breaking point of a stock 351W, based on Richard's testing. I'd want a little higher static compression, so with a set of rods and pistons it would probably last to 1000Hp for short periods. The rest of the car would have trouble with 1000Hp without kilobuck upgrades.
EFormance Engineering I’ve seen 11-1 5.3 bored to 5.7 iron ls1 oh and it needed less boost because of compression to make 1000 hp remember more boost gets hotter less boost stays cooler always no matter what kind of boost
250 HighPorts on a stroked Windsor and call it done
in 1998 I had a friend with a 5.0 mustang daily driver turbo one small one and a 100hp shot of nos 990 car all day and all he ever did in the pits is add fuel and slicks no trailer drove it there and drove it home like for at least three season he said he had to change the valve train rockers lifters and gear drive timing I pestered this guy a lot back then I was driving a barracuda formula S he was beating my 340 with a banks blower this was a 66 automatic car with some goodies not found on most cars as I lived in germany for 10yr in the cold war days as a GI I was a radar operator and technician mech for missile systems I had a F1 license back then drove bmw in hockenheim in the 1980 so my car was set up for that so ya did not like getting beat down by the ford 302 on steroids
Had a mild 351W in my 1985 GT with a Flowmaster exhaust emitting the sound of my youth 🙂