I've watched this 100 times and Richard was to persuasive. Took my 351w to the shop with a scat forged 408 stroker kit, main girdle, pro-comp 210 heads, xfi 236HR-14 cam.. Threw in some arp2000 rod bolts and ordered the twin 76mm turbos. When I watch Richard, my bank account vanishes. Thanks for the inspiration and awesome builds brother...
I remember reading this article online. It ended badly. Lol. It's cool to see videos on stuff I've read in the past. Thanks for everything you do Richard. Keep up the good work bro. 👍👍
Amazing you went as far as you did without blowing it up! Over 1000 HP PRIOR to the FINAL Throttle-Boost Roller Coaster Engine Breaker run! With a STOCK BOTTOM END! WOW!!!
Thanks again for another great video. I worked in speed shops for most of my life. I fell in love with the 351W in the mid 90's. The fact that that motor would take a 150 shot of N2O at 3000rpm with stock crank and rods was crazy! Love that you are using other engines. "The fuel and air can't read the name on the valve covers".
I would definitely love to see this tried again. I’d stick with the heads, but bigger can, and different intake. Holley hi ram, or single plane with an elbow would be better, and would drop the torque number to more what you’re looking for. I’d also really love to see this test tried on a 460 too. That would be a sight to see for sure.
It'll handle that power as a daily driver, won't be running it at the 1000 hp mark when you drive, run out of road fast and will be doubling or tripling the speed limit.
Keep going with this engine. Ford guys need an LS/coyote alternative. See what you can get with a forged bottom end as well. Imagine the views if you can hit a reasonably reliable 1200+ with off the shelf heads that don’t require a second mortgage. 👍
It would be cool if you revisit this test. I'd be curious to see how the numbers would work out with a holley hi ram, electronic boost controller and on e85.
Oh yeah, stroke the sucker to 514 cubes toss in some forged pistons , shotpeened and magnafluxed rods, a good set of heads solid roller, an in tercooler, twin turbo setup and katy bar the door!!
Remember working my ass off for my vortech sc and all the goodies, then finally got a early model 351 with a built lower end and all the goodies in my coupe. Wow what a difference. Thanks for the memories..
I’ve been a fan of Richard for decades. I actually own “5.0L Ford Dyno Tests” from 2000... it’s sitting right in front of me and I’ve learned a lot about engines in general from this book. Airflow, airflow, airflow.. the foreword is great.. Richard still had hair. 🤣
Would love to see this truer again! This is awesome info? I have a 351w and was hoping to run it around 750 hp and was wondering if it could handle it! Thanks for all your hard work and Time Richard!
Those inline AFR heads with big valves are where you ran into ptv trouble. If you look where you had to clearance them, it was on the outside of the factory dish on the flat portion of the piston. This is where the 11r heads with their valve angles really shine on the stock bottom ends.
I'm glad that you are going over this. I read your article on the internet a few months back and decided to give it a try on my channel. I'm doing almost everything you did and even have the same camshaft and it fits using 2.02int valves @ around 130ths clearance. I did a lot of looking and reading and it looks like the valves in your afr heads would run into the slope of the dish in the piston. Anyways love the channel and keep doing what you do 👍
When did you do this dyno run? I feel like I read about this a couple years ago! Been tellin everybody about it. No one believed me. Now there's a video to corroborate my story! This channel is GOLD!!!
A incredibly simple way to add boost to a maxed spring & MBC - send 5-10psi (or more) to the top port using a pressure regulator! You can use that along with your bleed-stye that's already on the bottom port. It was used in a few old Turbonetics kit that I know of. Also the prob with throttle control for the dyno is the turbos build 'infinite' boost before the throttle body, meaning much higher drive pressure than you'd normally see at that boost level. They'll surge like crazy, too.
Great video! I myself love the 351W. I would love to see you try this again and see what you can actually get out of it. I am planning on doing a 351W with my young son for a 93 f150. I like the 302 but the 351W has so much more potential.
@@fastinradfordable when building for extreme power, fuel consumption is only an afterthought. As in you get what you build. Obviously the more power, the more fuel must be used.
A trick i used to back in the day was to find big washers that fit inside the wastegate top cap. the washer would add pressure to the spring much like a shim for cheap adding roughly 2 psi per washer. sounds getto i know but in a pinch it works like a dream.
4:48 "little disappointed in the power"... dude, that's an absolutely gorgeous dyno plot for a street engine. Yes, I know that's not the goal, but remember this one for other purposes...
I hope you do the 351 again. I have been thinking about one for my full weight Foxbody. The goal is to run 10.0x as cheap as possible. I would love to see you keep the E7 heads though an HO cam in it and see how much boost it would take to get 700 HP. Then try the big heads and cam for Max power.
I have to agree I think the bigger valves in the 205 heads caused an issue with the valve clearance on the Pistons. I would really like to see you run the same setup with a set of 185 heads and see if you have the same clearance problem that you had with the 205 heads
A 351w is a beast durable motor in stock form, I could only imagine a blueprinted forged bottom end with the right cam and intake! 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪I remember when you limped home after finishing the silver state classic in that awesome notch.
I think you addressed some of the issues with this build. I would love to see this re done with updated better parts and done one efi and a csu blow through.
On the surface, I agree. The issue is: rods. The stock armasteel rods are marginal at mild-NA boost levels. The Caddy (even the 472) has a big stroke. The secret to the Big Bang is limiting torque, going for horsepower (more rpm) The Caddy internals are heavy. RPM’s would strain the armasteel rods by tension. Turbos on a Caddy would be a torque proposition. That hits the rods from the compression perspective. The rods would be hit by both sides. I predict the party would end by 9:30pm and everyone would go home disappointed. If the reciprocating assembly would be switched to lighter, forged parts, you could do something, but then, the junkyard objective would be lost. IMHO
@@jeremythefleetguy1693 I was unaware of the rods being the weak link in a Caddy. After seeing a a 351w make 1000 ft/lbs on a stock bottom end I was curious to what the torque number would be on a caddy before letting up the ghost. With a motor that can start life as a NA motor with 550 ft/lbs, I wonder if with some tuning wizardry it could set the big bang record for torque before scattering the rods. You are most likely correct that she would make for the shortest party, but there is some allure in playing with one of the largest engines ever made for automotive purposes and can still be found extremely cheap
Awesome video!! The Big Bang is definitely what I thought would happen, but I didn’t think it would go over 1000 hp!!! Wow very cool on Cast pistons!!! 😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I remember reading this story. I am basing my Windsor build of it but with cheaper speedmaster heads and holley super sniper. I even put a smaller cam cuz I didnt want to have to dremal the piston.
Me personally I cudnt see if it had standard or .30 replacement pistons but the early 69-73 351w dish top don't have valve reliefs the later dish Pistons I'm almost positive they do maybe that's why ya had the clearance issue???& We all know efi Windsor have no forged internals & possibly the dremel valve reliefs wacked the rotating assembly balance off enough to create some nasty harmonic disturbances..... Keep doing your thing Richard we love it right here in Phoenix AZ
Yeah I'd like to see some small and big block mopar stuff. The late model magnum 360s are everywhere. Also a big bang modern hemi basically some mopar stuff!
I would go with a super Victor Edelbrock intake. Keep timing soft at peak torque and let the boost to the work. I also think backpressure was a issue, a slightly larger turbine would help also. I have the almost the same setup with a s480/96 and it makes over 700 to the wheels on 17lbs. This is also a stock bottom end deal. I tore mine apart at this power level and everything still looked great. It should make a 1000hp easy without hurting parts. I would like to see this test again with the above changes and I am sure the outcome would be different.
You would be surprised on what cam you use with blowers, The Lsa needs to be big to let more air in, a big hairy cam with a 108 LSA would be a disaster need a 114 !!
I've put 351W's in many fox body mustangs. I've reused a low dollar combination that will run very low 10's on pump gas, dot tires with a 125 shot of N2O through a reasonably quiet 2 1/2 exhaust. Daily driver even in New England winter.
I would think you need dished forged pistons for boost, add a stud girdle which is cheap, different cam, supervictor and Pro Flo4 EFI, same heads, ARP bolts all through. It is commonly accepted the 351w block is good for 7-800 max., so pure risk if you go for 1000 and then need aftermarket block. Simply, power adders will push past stock block limits. Great video!
What you did wrong. EVERYTHING! LOL I'm shocked. I thought the internet says that cast pistons shatter when you put turbos in the same room with them. I just wish we had video of the throttle control boost controller carnage!
Theory on the grenading of the engine... Too much Torque from full boost and the bottom end just couldn't take the on/off of the throttle. It's not a light switch, Richard lol! I'd stick with the 205 heads though, the 185 is a great head but if Torque is the enemy of boost I think the smaller runner on the 185 head is going to exacerbate that problem. Maybe I'm wrong. I just know that a 205 is not too big for a 351, hell I've seen the 225 do amazing things on solid roller 347's. Another thing you might consider is a valve spring change on the 205 heads. The springs they come equipped with are just a member of so-so magazine at best. A better spring and lighter retainer and I think you might actually see the cam pull a little harder up high but still imo and this is very just my opinion a 351 needs a cam atleast in the 23x* intake duration.
Hey Richard, have you experimented with offset piston pins as per Smokey Yunick? I understand the increased side loading during the power stroke, however, IMHO the pin offset should help minimize some of the high torque loads at TDC on the rods and bottom end. What say you?
In my experience, the larger intake valve (The AFR 205's use a 2.08" valve) will contact that factory piston exactly in the area you have cut out with a longer duration cam. Not a real issue with the small factory valves, but certainly when going 2.02" or larger.
really like the 351W videos. I believe they are very comparable to the LS with the exception of when ran with stock cylinder heads. I'd love to see you do a dyno test with a pair of explorer heads on a 351W, maybe a old school alphabet X cam and a explorer intake to see what a true low buck, junkyard builder can do. There's lots of us guys running combo's on the cheap and this would be a great test.
Yea the ls does better when ran with stock cylinder heads because for one its a much more modern engine and for two the 351 never really was in any performance applications after like 1971 they come from 80s and 90s trucks usually lol. So of course the ls is gonna do better with stock heads vs stock heads. You get some decent flow on the cylinder heads to match the ls the windsor is very comparable.
Boost controller would definitely help. But think should try single large turbo 113mm would spoil slowly then hit hard for that high hp number. Or running a vgt turbo where you can control the vanes past your torque point on the graph.
From what iv gathered if u keep the rpms down around 6k you can make even last a long time and yes the aftermarket head are nice but stock heads and cam is dam decent and u could make about 550 hp on a 5.0 with stock heads and I am at around 15 psi I'd like to see u do one of them stock intake to oil pan with opend ring gaps and keep the stock cam and put about 25psi threw it
That is extremely surprising that the block didn’t crack or that it didn’t lift the heads at those boost numbers. Impressive. When you ran out of spring on the wastegates you should have sprayed it a little.
Hey Richard this is great, you have given me a idea to go with my old svo that I have swap a Windsor in and turbo it. I built a engine master ford burger engine and love it, but boost would be JOYGASM.
Harlan F Harlan F Yeah $1800 in heads and a $800 in a intake for a 351 for it 409 hp na. While you can 5.3 and add a cam and make 449 with with $650 bucks ... ls ftw
Unless the 351 has forged rods at least, it's not going to make 1200 reliable horsepower like the LS. And in the ls it can be tuned to 14 to 1500hp for those all or nothing grudge races🤪
Bent 2 stock rods in my old Windsor on spray running 10.20s in a 3400 lb Mustang. Stock rods won’t hold too long......especially over a 1000 hp. Windsor’s are impressive little motors.
Kevin Johnson I ran a Cheater plate with 150 shot jets, Powerglide w/brake, 4.30 gear. Had a .600 lift solid roller cam with 11.5:1. ‘69 model iron heads, ported. It was a good engine.
LS guys brag about power numbers on a stock bottom end. This Windsor sure made a statement. Using the throttle for boost control reminds me of fuel control failures on MH-53s. When it took a shit, you had to manually maintain engine control using the throttle (normally automatic.) It was possible, but difficult with every collective change. Good stuff Richard, thanks!
I've had alot of issues with the F4 castings having cracks on the second and ,fourth cam journals. Look for that when you take them apart. Had to have industrial machine shop in santa rosa drill holes and back fill them a few different times.
Stock pistons don't have reliefs for 2.02 or bigger valves. I cut mine with a fly cutter that replaces the valve. You have to move the cutter from cylinder to cylinder and it takes a while. I usually cut .125" extra on L2482 forged pistons.
Hey Richard I believe that the intake manifold really hurt the NA power of that engine. I was thinking closer to 475 horsepower and it didn't come close.. Another thing to take in consideration is the great big dish in those Pistons. And I bet the compression was about 8.5 to 1 but the low compression is perfect for Boost. I bet with the right intake and about nine and a half to 1 compression it would have made the numbers
i'm a chevy guy but the W is definitely my favourite ford. if only ford didn't make it so complicated to mix and match. first experience with that was buying a tunnel ram and carbs for a 302, polishing everything and attempting to install it on my nephews 351W in his gorgeous 68 cougar xr7 gt. Totally my fault but knowing what ford pieces are compatible is a science and a pia
Well I believe that you did a great job of finding the limits of a stock 351w bottom end. My experience with 351c in the early 1970's was not good spinning bearing due to oil passage design and lack of high volume oil pumps at that time.
Go for 1200 hp. on a built 351w. The 351Windsor is my favorite engine. I have 2 complete C9 engines. One is going on a 63 fairlane and the other l will go all out on it to hit 1200+ hp. Give us more vids on 351W. Thanks.
I got a set of trw .030 pistons already on the rods from an old 72 motor with much smaller dishes! The valve reliefs are small but thinking bout just borrowing a cutter made from a valve and just use the indicator to maintain consistency!
You're a nut, Richard! I'd go with a 393 crank with the stock rods and forged 302 pistons. With all the torque you're making, you'd better get some serious frame bracing for anything above 600 hp, a small block C6(affordable and strong) and at least a 9 inch Ford rearend. Cam wise, I'd chose a Crower turbo cam. The intake you had was fine. Putting that much power through a cast crank above 6000 RPM is a grenade with the pin pulled.
I'd like to see what happens when using the junkyard engine as it comes and boost it. Just do the cheap cam and valve spring upgrade and see what happens.
XD XD XD Richard, when need an engine tear down of that blown motor. theres where you went wrong if anything that would help some of us "less experienced" guys understand what cause high hp catastrophes and how to further prevent them. it understandable if not though, this type of content is plenty educational and very much entertaining . but if you run out of ideas.......there's one more for ya
I remember when this article came out I was blown away with the power it made. I wouldn’t call making 1k on a SBE a screw up lol you were just trying some different stuff. I think you listed all the improvements that could have been made in the video though TBH.
Please please ..... run a 440 mopar with boost would love to see it make huge torqe ....there is alot of questions about the 440 and boost ...we need a myth buster ..........
I've watched this 100 times and Richard was to persuasive. Took my 351w to the shop with a scat forged 408 stroker kit, main girdle, pro-comp 210 heads, xfi 236HR-14 cam.. Threw in some arp2000 rod bolts and ordered the twin 76mm turbos. When I watch Richard, my bank account vanishes. Thanks for the inspiration and awesome builds brother...
funny how all that adds up for 351w. might as well buy a 7.3L petrol crate at this point
I think you had alot of fun ..and thats what its all about
@@iaiband I'd take a 351W over a 7.3 crate. You're still replacing parts on the 7.3 and the math doesn't add up
@@chrismathes3647 what kind of power did your stroker make?
Please revisit this one Rich! Would really like to see what a properly set up stock bottom end 351W can do reliably!
I bet that NA combo would make a beautiful street / daily motor
I have a 2.3L turbo in my ranger but a 351w with a turbo would be cooler. Lol
Absolutely nothing 4 digit power on a junkyard bottom end 👍👍 freaken awesome 💪keep up the good content. Specially the Ford stuff
I remember reading this article online. It ended badly. Lol. It's cool to see videos on stuff I've read in the past. Thanks for everything you do Richard. Keep up the good work bro. 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing you went as far as you did without blowing it up! Over 1000 HP PRIOR to the FINAL Throttle-Boost Roller Coaster Engine Breaker run! With a STOCK BOTTOM END! WOW!!!
Thanks again for another great video.
I worked in speed shops for most of my life. I fell in love with the 351W in the mid 90's. The fact that that motor would take a 150 shot of N2O at 3000rpm with stock crank and rods was crazy!
Love that you are using other engines. "The fuel and air can't read the name on the valve covers".
I would definitely love to see this tried again. I’d stick with the heads, but bigger can, and different intake. Holley hi ram, or single plane with an elbow would be better, and would drop the torque number to more what you’re looking for. I’d also really love to see this test tried on a 460 too. That would be a sight to see for sure.
I want to do this with my engine will it handle all of that power if I use it as a daily driver?
Ernesto Ramirez it will at a lower hp
@@emiliano29171316 like around 600?
It'll handle that power as a daily driver, won't be running it at the 1000 hp mark when you drive, run out of road fast and will be doubling or tripling the speed limit.
At this point I think we would all tune in to a Big Bang episode even if it was on a Briggs and Stratton. Love the info man please keep’m coming!
The First Big Bang is up Next-and it wasn't the LS
Richard Holdener well now I’m on the edge of my seat!
Either way, pushing 1000hp on a junkyard 351w is awesome! I’m curious to see how much more is left with a different intake and cam!
Thanks for all the Ford stuff
Keep going with this engine. Ford guys need an LS/coyote alternative. See what you can get with a forged bottom end as well. Imagine the views if you can hit a reasonably reliable 1200+ with off the shelf heads that don’t require a second mortgage. 👍
It would be cool if you revisit this test. I'd be curious to see how the numbers would work out with a holley hi ram, electronic boost controller and on e85.
I remember reading this back in the day! Love how your revisiting them
Thanks for all the FORD Testing.
junkyard turbo 460
Wait hold on I’m working on that
Oh yes please!! I second that!
Just picked a 460 up yesterday. Thats my plan, mild aluminum headed 460 with twin turbo.
Oh yeah, stroke the sucker to 514 cubes toss in some forged pistons , shotpeened and magnafluxed rods, a good set of heads solid roller, an in tercooler, twin turbo setup and katy bar the door!!
Great video need to show more people this tired of seeing everyone just ls everything
Remember working my ass off for my vortech sc and all the goodies, then finally got a early model 351 with a built lower end and all the goodies in my coupe. Wow what a difference. Thanks for the memories..
I’ve been a fan of Richard for decades. I actually own “5.0L Ford Dyno Tests” from 2000... it’s sitting right in front of me and I’ve learned a lot about engines in general from this book. Airflow, airflow, airflow.. the foreword is great.. Richard still had hair. 🤣
That's real OG
@@richardholdener1727Yes… Yes indeed, Richard.
Next time you run out of wastegate spring, use regulated shop air to the top of the wastegate.
With gas regulators I stretch the hell out of the springs, i can usually get a extra 30% more pressure that way, not ideal but works in a pinch.
Yeah, a lot of drag cars run their wastegates on CO2.
The god of engines still hard at work.
I enjoy watching the tests you run on different set ups hopefully one day I will see what you make with a 360 Magnum for some of the other guys👍
Would love to see this truer again! This is awesome info? I have a 351w and was hoping to run it around 750 hp and was wondering if it could handle it! Thanks for all your hard work and Time Richard!
it'll split at 800
@@Mesteban781 like the one in the video did @ 1000?? The 😒
Dude just put eagle rods and forged pistons to be sure
Those inline AFR heads with big valves are where you ran into ptv trouble. If you look where you had to clearance them, it was on the outside of the factory dish on the flat portion of the piston. This is where the 11r heads with their valve angles really shine on the stock bottom ends.
I can’t wait for you to do this combo again ben waiting for a long time might inspire me to start buying parts for my 351w block I’m building 👍
I'm glad that you are going over this. I read your article on the internet a few months back and decided to give it a try on my channel. I'm doing almost everything you did and even have the same camshaft and it fits using 2.02int valves @ around 130ths clearance. I did a lot of looking and reading and it looks like the valves in your afr heads would run into the slope of the dish in the piston. Anyways love the channel and keep doing what you do 👍
1000 ft/lbs on a stock bottom end.... holy shit that’s better than most light truck diesels! These videos make me want to Big Bang my daily’s.
Its time for the revisit 😉
When did you do this dyno run? I feel like I read about this a couple years ago! Been tellin everybody about it. No one believed me. Now there's a video to corroborate my story! This channel is GOLD!!!
thnx-Chris was totally right guys!
I have read about this too.
Do it again? Absolutely, love the big bang content. Want to see it done with all the motors, the import stuff also.
A incredibly simple way to add boost to a maxed spring & MBC - send 5-10psi (or more) to the top port using a pressure regulator! You can use that along with your bleed-stye that's already on the bottom port. It was used in a few old Turbonetics kit that I know of.
Also the prob with throttle control for the dyno is the turbos build 'infinite' boost before the throttle body, meaning much higher drive pressure than you'd normally see at that boost level. They'll surge like crazy, too.
Great video! I myself love the 351W. I would love to see you try this again and see what you can actually get out of it. I am planning on doing a 351W with my young son for a 93 f150. I like the 302 but the 351W has so much more potential.
Jody Bowling
And so much more fuel consumption.
@@fastinradfordable when building for extreme power, fuel consumption is only an afterthought. As in you get what you build. Obviously the more power, the more fuel must be used.
A trick i used to back in the day was to find big washers that fit inside the wastegate top cap. the washer would add pressure to the spring much like a shim for cheap adding roughly 2 psi per washer. sounds getto i know but in a pinch it works like a dream.
4:48 "little disappointed in the power"... dude, that's an absolutely gorgeous dyno plot for a street engine. Yes, I know that's not the goal, but remember this one for other purposes...
A stock 351W with a good top end package should make 425-450 HP hence Richard’s disappointment. I think that intake hurt the combo more than the cam.
I hope you do the 351 again. I have been thinking about one for my full weight Foxbody. The goal is to run 10.0x as cheap as possible. I would love to see you keep the E7 heads though an HO cam in it and see how much boost it would take to get 700 HP. Then try the big heads and cam for Max power.
This video and my morning coffee was the best start to a Saturday morning. Great job. Thanks.
I read this article a few years back. I'd love to see this again with a solid roller.
I have to agree
I think the bigger valves in the 205 heads caused an issue with the valve clearance on the Pistons. I would really like to see you run the same setup with a set of 185 heads and see if you have the same clearance problem that you had with the 205 heads
A 351w is a beast durable motor in stock form, I could only imagine a blueprinted forged bottom end with the right cam and intake! 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪I remember when you limped home after finishing the silver state classic in that awesome notch.
I can’t wait till you do this again this engine is one of the best lots of people love it for a reason👍good work man!!
I am currently in the process of building a setup based on that article alone. Please redo this!!!! Love your stuff!
This was a very cool test
Thanks Richard.
I remember seeing your super Ford articles n thinking who is this guy but dude you got some cool ass videos I got to admit
I think you addressed some of the issues with this build. I would love to see this re done with updated better parts and done one efi and a csu blow through.
I think the bigger valve is the problem. I have similar lift cam on gt40 heads on my 351w and it has no problems
I still would love seeing a Caddy 472/500 pushed to the limit with boost. They are RPM limited, but torque monsters.
On the surface, I agree. The issue is: rods.
The stock armasteel rods are marginal at mild-NA boost levels.
The Caddy (even the 472) has a big stroke.
The secret to the Big Bang is limiting torque, going for horsepower (more rpm)
The Caddy internals are heavy. RPM’s would strain the armasteel rods by tension. Turbos on a Caddy would be a torque proposition. That hits the rods from the compression perspective.
The rods would be hit by both sides.
I predict the party would end by 9:30pm and everyone would go home disappointed. If the reciprocating assembly would be switched to lighter, forged parts, you could do something, but then, the junkyard objective would be lost.
IMHO
@@jeremythefleetguy1693
I was unaware of the rods being the weak link in a Caddy. After seeing a a 351w make 1000 ft/lbs on a stock bottom end I was curious to what the torque number would be on a caddy before letting up the ghost. With a motor that can start life as a NA motor with 550 ft/lbs, I wonder if with some tuning wizardry it could set the big bang record for torque before scattering the rods.
You are most likely correct that she would make for the shortest party, but there is some allure in playing with one of the largest engines ever made for automotive purposes and can still be found extremely cheap
FINALLY the video iv been waiting for..
Great job 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Awesome video!! The Big Bang is definitely what I thought would happen, but I didn’t think it would go over 1000 hp!!! Wow very cool on Cast pistons!!! 😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I remember reading this story. I am basing my Windsor build of it but with cheaper speedmaster heads and holley super sniper. I even put a smaller cam cuz I didnt want to have to dremal the piston.
A lot of times a 2.02 intake valve will interfere.
Me personally I cudnt see if it had standard or .30 replacement pistons but the early 69-73 351w dish top don't have valve reliefs the later dish Pistons I'm almost positive they do maybe that's why ya had the clearance issue???& We all know efi Windsor have no forged internals & possibly the dremel valve reliefs wacked the rotating assembly balance off enough to create some nasty harmonic disturbances..... Keep doing your thing Richard we love it right here in Phoenix AZ
Please revisit this. If you like the Comp 274 you will love the 282. Would love to see that cam with some good heads and boost.
We have run the 282 also
Another awesome video Rich.
Now we want that vortec 8.1.
Yeah I'd like to see some small and big block mopar stuff. The late model magnum 360s are everywhere. Also a big bang modern hemi basically some mopar stuff!
Link 550 Yup, I got 4 of em sitting under my bench waiting for some boost!
He has done big bang mopars
I would go with a super Victor Edelbrock intake. Keep timing soft at peak torque and let the boost to the work. I also think backpressure was a issue, a slightly larger turbine would help also. I have the almost the same setup with a s480/96 and it makes over 700 to the wheels on 17lbs. This is also a stock bottom end deal. I tore mine apart at this power level and everything still looked great. It should make a 1000hp easy without hurting parts. I would like to see this test again with the above changes and I am sure the outcome would be different.
You just got greedy with stock parts!!
Great video thank you
How about a stroked 393 or 408
Same cylinder heads but with a solid roller cam
You would be surprised on what cam you use with blowers, The Lsa needs to be big to let more air in, a big hairy cam with a 108 LSA would be a disaster need a 114 !!
I wish I knew this back when I built my 351w turbo setup... I thought the block was only good for max 750hp.
Good.. I might swap my fox... form 302 to 351... LS is also an option...
PERFORMANCE CUSTOMS everyone LS swaps “yawn”
I've put 351W's in many fox body mustangs. I've reused a low dollar combination that will run very low 10's on pump gas, dot tires with a 125 shot of N2O through a reasonably quiet 2 1/2 exhaust. Daily driver even in New England winter.
@@scottb7559 what did u do to it a 125 isnt much sauce did u have aftermarket heads on it
More 351 builds please! Loving the content! Maybe a 351M? I seen the 400m build.👌👌👌
I would think you need dished forged pistons for boost, add a stud girdle which is cheap, different cam, supervictor and Pro Flo4 EFI, same heads, ARP bolts all through. It is commonly accepted the 351w block is good for 7-800 max., so pure risk if you go for 1000 and then need aftermarket block. Simply, power adders will push past stock block limits. Great video!
When’s the revisit coming?
Would also love to see what the 400 M would do as well
Can't wait for you to do this again but better! Love the factory bottom end tests!
What you did wrong. EVERYTHING! LOL
I'm shocked. I thought the internet says that cast pistons shatter when you put turbos in the same room with them. I just wish we had video of the throttle control boost controller carnage!
it was epic
Theory on the grenading of the engine... Too much Torque from full boost and the bottom end just couldn't take the on/off of the throttle. It's not a light switch, Richard lol! I'd stick with the 205 heads though, the 185 is a great head but if Torque is the enemy of boost I think the smaller runner on the 185 head is going to exacerbate that problem. Maybe I'm wrong. I just know that a 205 is not too big for a 351, hell I've seen the 225 do amazing things on solid roller 347's. Another thing you might consider is a valve spring change on the 205 heads. The springs they come equipped with are just a member of so-so magazine at best. A better spring and lighter retainer and I think you might actually see the cam pull a little harder up high but still imo and this is very just my opinion a 351 needs a cam atleast in the 23x* intake duration.
Very cool, makes me feel safe @550 N/A 408 with forged internals, studs top & bottom and a girdle.
Hey Richard, have you experimented with offset piston pins as per Smokey Yunick? I understand the increased side loading during the power stroke, however, IMHO the pin offset should help minimize some of the high torque loads at TDC on the rods and bottom end. What say you?
In my experience, the larger intake valve (The AFR 205's use a 2.08" valve) will contact that factory piston exactly in the area you have cut out with a longer duration cam. Not a real issue with the small factory valves, but certainly when going 2.02" or larger.
really like the 351W videos. I believe they are very comparable to the LS with the exception of when ran with stock cylinder heads. I'd love to see you do a dyno test with a pair of explorer heads on a 351W, maybe a old school alphabet X cam and a explorer intake to see what a true low buck, junkyard builder can do. There's lots of us guys running combo's on the cheap and this would be a great test.
Yea the ls does better when ran with stock cylinder heads because for one its a much more modern engine and for two the 351 never really was in any performance applications after like 1971 they come from 80s and 90s trucks usually lol. So of course the ls is gonna do better with stock heads vs stock heads. You get some decent flow on the cylinder heads to match the ls the windsor is very comparable.
I would like to see you do 6.1 hemi ,with 6.4 truck heads and a cam.maybe a 6.1 intake or try the new holley intake with your turbos.
Boost controller would definitely help. But think should try single large turbo 113mm would spoil slowly then hit hard for that high hp number. Or running a vgt turbo where you can control the vanes past your torque point on the graph.
From what iv gathered if u keep the rpms down around 6k you can make even last a long time and yes the aftermarket head are nice but stock heads and cam is dam decent and u could make about 550 hp on a 5.0 with stock heads and I am at around 15 psi I'd like to see u do one of them stock intake to oil pan with opend ring gaps and keep the stock cam and put about 25psi threw it
Please do this test again I love these motors and would love to see what you can get out of one!!
That is extremely surprising that the block didn’t crack or that it didn’t lift the heads at those boost numbers. Impressive. When you ran out of spring on the wastegates you should have sprayed it a little.
im in the process of doing this exact same build for a customer of mine. Im about to foward this video to him for inspiration!
Hey Richard this is great, you have given me a idea to go with my old svo that I have swap a Windsor in and turbo it. I built a engine master ford burger engine and love it, but boost would be JOYGASM.
Liked this test alot. Once you got the wastegates straightened out would low timing numbers in the affected area help the high tq number issues.
I learned more people should get 351's, buy decent heads and say LS what?
Harlan F way better torque numbers in any LS small blocks. 351W acting like a BIG Block V8 lol
Harlan F Harlan F Yeah $1800 in heads and a $800 in a intake for a 351 for it 409 hp na. While you can 5.3 and add a cam and make 449 with with $650 bucks ... ls ftw
Lol so they can blow up at 1k?
ChanMan405 hahaha you wish th-cam.com/video/iCPJxo5tNqM/w-d-xo.html h
Unless the 351 has forged rods at least, it's not going to make 1200 reliable horsepower like the LS. And in the ls it can be tuned to 14 to 1500hp for those all or nothing grudge races🤪
Bent 2 stock rods in my old Windsor on spray running 10.20s in a 3400 lb Mustang. Stock rods won’t hold too long......especially over a 1000 hp. Windsor’s are impressive little motors.
How much spray that engine have to have been makein like 525 whp
Kevin Johnson I ran a Cheater plate with 150 shot jets, Powerglide w/brake, 4.30 gear. Had a .600 lift solid roller cam with 11.5:1. ‘69 model iron heads, ported. It was a good engine.
This gives me alot of hope for our Crower Billet bottom end we have !
Most newer engine design have oil cooling of the Piston crown! Might try a make shift system on these old motors? Would make a great video?
LS guys brag about power numbers on a stock bottom end. This Windsor sure made a statement. Using the throttle for boost control reminds me of fuel control failures on MH-53s. When it took a shit, you had to manually maintain engine control using the throttle (normally automatic.) It was possible, but difficult with every collective change. Good stuff Richard, thanks!
I've had alot of issues with the F4 castings having cracks on the second and ,fourth cam journals. Look for that when you take them apart. Had to have industrial machine shop in santa rosa drill holes and back fill them a few different times.
Thanks for the tip!
Stock pistons don't have reliefs for 2.02 or bigger valves. I cut mine with a fly cutter that replaces the valve. You have to move the cutter from cylinder to cylinder and it takes a while. I usually cut .125" extra on L2482 forged pistons.
Forged pistons #1 upgrade rods #2 Holley H Ram #3 let her rip #4. .The 2.080 intake valve on AFR possible the valve to piston clearance problem.
Hey Richard I believe that the intake manifold really hurt the NA power of that engine. I was thinking closer to 475 horsepower and it didn't come close.. Another thing to take in consideration is the great big dish in those Pistons. And I bet the compression was about 8.5 to 1 but the low compression is perfect for Boost. I bet with the right intake and about nine and a half to 1 compression it would have made the numbers
Yea the base engine was definitely missing something. Intake? Compression? Mechanical problem? All 3?
I'm all about for mod motors but those old sbf engines are pretty sweet
i'm a chevy guy but the W is definitely my favourite ford. if only ford didn't make it so complicated to mix and match. first experience with that was buying a tunnel ram and carbs for a 302, polishing everything and attempting to install it on my nephews 351W in his gorgeous 68 cougar xr7 gt. Totally my fault but knowing what ford pieces are compatible is a science and a pia
I would like to see a horsepower per pound test. From a rotary or Honda up to an aluminum big block.
Well I believe that you did a great job of finding the limits of a stock 351w bottom end. My experience with 351c in the early 1970's was not good spinning bearing due to oil passage design and lack of high volume oil pumps at that time.
Go for 1200 hp. on a built 351w. The 351Windsor is my favorite engine. I have 2 complete C9 engines. One is going on a 63 fairlane and the other l will go all out on it to hit 1200+ hp. Give us more vids on 351W. Thanks.
I remember reading about this test in hrm. Would love to see this revisited with more intake, more cam, more boost. This thing clearly had more in it.
I got a set of trw .030 pistons already on the rods from an old 72 motor with much smaller dishes! The valve reliefs are small but thinking bout just borrowing a cutter made from a valve and just use the indicator to maintain consistency!
You're a nut, Richard! I'd go with a 393 crank with the stock rods and forged 302 pistons. With all the torque you're making, you'd better get some serious frame bracing for anything above 600 hp, a small block C6(affordable and strong) and at least a 9 inch Ford rearend. Cam wise, I'd chose a Crower turbo cam. The intake you had was fine. Putting that much power through a cast crank above 6000 RPM is a grenade with the pin pulled.
Run the next test both blow thru single plain manifold and Efi single plain manifold. Would love to see the difference in power.
hell yeah richard keep the gold coming
I'd like to see what happens when using the junkyard engine as it comes and boost it. Just do the cheap cam and valve spring upgrade and see what happens.
XD XD XD Richard, when need an engine tear down of that blown motor. theres where you went wrong if anything that would help some of us "less experienced" guys understand what cause high hp catastrophes and how to further prevent them. it understandable if not though, this type of content is plenty educational and very much entertaining . but if you run out of ideas.......there's one more for ya
Cast pistons and stock rod bolts , broached shoulder across the bid end of the rod that the rod bolt sits on , are all areas of weakness .
I remember when this article came out I was blown away with the power it made. I wouldn’t call making 1k on a SBE a screw up lol you were just trying some different stuff. I think you listed all the improvements that could have been made in the video though TBH.
Please please ..... run a 440 mopar with boost would love to see it make huge torqe ....there is alot of questions about the 440 and boost ...we need a myth buster ..........
Better you than me, brother! 😂 Thanks for taking it all the way to the brutal end! 🔥🔥🔥