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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Today we do an in depth comparison of the Ford Barra Engine vs the Chevrolet Vortec 4200 "Ameri-Barra".
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Also one thing you forgot to go over was the barra flexplate/flywheel bolts going loose! The barra guys do all sorts of stuff to stop them from backing out, some guys even tack weld the bolt heads to the flexplate/flwheel. The barra has 6 flywheel bolts and the 4200 has 7 bolts which is why the 4200 doesnt have issues with this and the barra does.
4200 has 8 bolt. I was going to mention that, but I didn't want to get called out for being incorrect. I saw Adam LZ had trouble with that on his.
holy crap your right i was going off pure memory, thats awesome. The 4200 def in the sub 1500hp range is a superior platform IMO. @@Calvin-Nelson
Explain exactly why having 6 flywheel bolts causes them to back out
100% the achilles heal of Barra… we suffer from it regularly
@@BennysCustomWorks Someone should make a billet with 4200 style bolt pattern with a flexplate to match!
Australia is the go to place for Barra aftermarket support...
The ford vs GM battle has been going strong here for over 50 years. Chrysler left the chat in the early 80's.
The 6 cylinders have their own place in Aussie automotive history
Yes Australia has long been a 6 cylinder land - we got sick of your badly designed V8 rubbish. Nissan RB30E was the best engine EVER in a Holden - smooth & tough but reasonably fuel efficient ( we actually have to pay for fuel in Aus). BTW the Barrra was also used in the Ford Territory suv & it made these vehicles worth while as most others have rough pathetic turdbo dismal L4's
Man I’d love to have a nice Barra motor for a mid size pickup, 5-6 spd manual wow ✌️🇺🇸
I've got a sleeper rwd Territory. It's fun when I turn the traction control off. 😉
@@deborahchesser7375I have 16 Barras on hand atm have sent a few to the states in last couple years and help them out with sending parts
there is no battle between ford & holden,, holden cheat.. fact..
Would love to see a video like "800HP swap for $3000" or something like that with the parts needed. This would help people get started with the 4200. Keep it up!
Can do.
Please me too I just got a 100$ well taken care of 4200 I believe it's an aluminum top but am trying to make a twin charged methanol ammonia injected with propane too....and am thinking I picked the perfect time to start rebuilding it..... gonna rebuild it with a aircraft aluminum mixed with boron pistons.... maybe the connecting rods to... make an alloy and send it to the Chevy garage or something
Lol body is rotten but tranny ....engine and everything else is mint... I love aluminum........ gonna try to make some nice high silica and graphite boron infused aircraft aluminum rods and pistons.... I'll make the alloy and have someon cnc it maybe an extra inch on the stroke and have someone make a deck an icy taller cylinders too
@@jerimiahrouillard6330 My wife has a 2002 GMC Envoy that she wants to junk. It runs well, but is rusty. After seeing this video, perhaps I should keep it and pull the block for the giggles.
The oil drain is actually the "side effect" of the hollow tubes on the side of the block, rigidity is the main purpose.
You will always get more stability out of a hollow shape than a solid piece if you use the same amount of material.
I worked in a foundry making engine blocks and cylinder heads for 20 years btw, making blocks for Humvees and heads for Cummins. In Germany lol
Either way, I'll take it!
@@Calvin-Nelson absolutely! :-)
I remember my company experimenting with different things over the years, hollow cam shafts, cast-in in between cylinder cooling, thin wall castings with, a crank case thickness of only 2.5mm
so you are partially to blame for all the poor quality cruft. (Germany!)
Strength to weight, yes hollow is stronger but same size and shape no. People often get this confused.
@@throttlebottle5906thought the same thing. Good try tho.
Good comparison. Similar but different. I still think GM should have kept the Atlas platform. They are pretty good at canceling anything that is successful.
Hope your Dad is doing OK. Give us an update on him.
Yeah. I think it would have stuck around if they hadn't nearly gone out of business in 2008-2009. They closed the only plant that produced the 4200 and thus it was dead. The 4 and 5 lasted til 2012.
Will do. Thanks
My 4.2 is still running great with 294k miles. Original transmission too which is a little scary to think about sometimes.
Nice! Mine has 324k of absolute abuse and still running strong. Now I'm ready for a turbo
I think the frame will break 1st on my Atlas Envoy.
@Emilthehun how's the transmission
@@Turshin it was slipping a little like 100k miles ago , but I put that no slip in it. Been working fine ever since.
@@Emilthehun had to rebuild my 4L60E in my 2002 suburban @ 330k miles.
We’ve gone 700+ on stock NA FG barra’s with no issue at all. And Australian dyno’s read very “differently” (read - realistically) from what we generally see over here.
Also no need to install pump gears unless you’re a big fan of the rev limiter, however yes. We always replace them. The valve springs are the general first limitation.
Fair enough. Most I've seen claimed was 450whp.
@@Calvin-Nelson probably a safe place to pull up really! Definitely good to see the 4200 platform getting more traction however! Seem like a good alternative that’s locally available for you guys!
@Calvin-Nelson 450 is about the limit of the stock transmission, but if you're going to the expense of a trans swap then it's likley you'll be doing engine mods too
All of that is correct. A $1000 wrecker mid BF to FG greentop barra (LPG), add head studs ($300, diy, no need to take the head off), valves springs $300 also diy, and cams will give 540rw kw without opening the engine. Peolple have done this and increased boost until this mostly stock engine lets go. 545rwkw on a mostly stock green top barra. = approx 850 crank hp.
The red top is not the best at all, I know, have one running only 440rwkw all day, on e85.
You do not need to add oil pump gears on an automatic barra that is not banging of the rev limiter. That is a myth.
@@Calvin-Nelson im running 600whp on stock pump gears, car in profile pic
Good comparison between these engines. I'm a big fan of hot 6's and have known about the Atlas for a while.
You did a good job of pointing out the pro's & cons of each. Much appreciated.
Thanks!
You're amazing for being one of the first major 4200 tinkerer. Can't wait to see more of this engine
barra was sold in australia and new zealand, billet oil pump gears and stiffer valve springs are the only "internal" mods necessary to run 700 rwhp on a daily driven barra turbo and it's not unheard of for them to turned up even more at the strip.
there is no issue modifying a barra sump usually not necessary as you have options but still that's an imaginary problem the sump and the windage tray are the girdle, the main reason for billet girdles in place of the tray is to accommodate aftermarket rods.
never heard of any oil drain back issues and the oil drains are huge compared to a lot of v8's so another non issue.
who told you australia didn't mess with v8's, a lot of v8 design and improvement for both ford and gm has come from australia. so why do we use 6 cylinders it's all about performance and reliability the commodore needed a 6.2l ls3 just to get close enough to see a stock xr6t cross the finish line.
I never said that the V8 stuff wasn't done in Australia, just it is less common. You guys didn't get the truck LS stuff.
Hurricane is right you did say V8s weren't common when in actually fact V8's were bloody everywhere & from both manufacturers.
There was a bit of information that you probably could have researched a little more so as to not sound so one sided..
I did have a laugh when you said 800hp from that drum dyno🤣🤣🤣.
800hp....You are a funny guy🤣🤣
Glad you guys have found a local equivalent to the barra, could you please stop buying up our limited supply of barra and cleveland bits now?.
Feel free to take as many commodore (buick) 3800,s as you want in exchange.
Sounds good to me! I'll try to convince as many people as I can.
I think you are bang on, the Barra though was a continuing evolution of the Australian Ford I6 for decades where the 4200 was a fresh design for the GMT360-370 chassis.
Took 3 different engines and made 1 on a clean design, like the LS was clean design
Based of an American engine of the 60s 😅😅 all they did was move the camshaft up and then added another, relax, not much innovation tbh. Speaking as an Australian ofc
I am a Ford guy and you just presented the best engine comparison video ever. Keep up the true spirit of the American gear head.
Thanks!
It’s too bad that GM never made a sports car with the 4200 Vortec. It would have been really cool to see in a Pontiac or something like that. I’d imagine it would rival the other 6-cylinder sports cars at the time and possibly give the LS engines a run for their money. This engine could have saved Pontiac. But sadly it wasn’t meant to be.
That's an excellent point , especially surprising considering Pontiac had the 3.8 supercharged V6 they used in the Pontiac GTP... they could have put a Supercharged 4.2 in the Camero or reinroduced the ' sport coupe or a 5 Dr. wagon, similar to the Dodge Magnum Hemi..
GM wouldn't do anything to take sales away from the Corvette
@@markfairhall3671 But Corvette is not for all...... its is not El Cheapo anymore. So they could have done it anyway.
That Solstice Pontiac MG style sports car would've been cool!
What about engine management systems/ support like a Holley or Motec ect. You didn’t talk about that
Had a 4.2 vortec back in the day that i sold at 280k miles. 4 years later it was spotted still on the road. God only knows with how many miles. Very strong motors. I hope they take off in the aftermarket scene
That seems to be the trend that I have seen. The body usually rusts around the engine, or the transmission quits.
@@Calvin-Nelson Up here in the rust belt, the rear axles fall out
The GMT360 line of vehicles are widely regarded as the least reliable modern vehicles in automotive history
Nice video mate, only thing I need to mention was the Barra came from the factory with only 2 conrods, the 1r and the 3r. The gas motor has different pins though and higher comp pistons. And legend has it that after July 2006 a lot of the NA motors got the same rods as the turbo motors, a lot of the later NA motors are used to make 600+ wheel HP with aftermarket oil pump gears and valve springs
barra zf 6 speed autos are fairly strong or you can just go manual and use a tr6060 or t56 all of these are strong factory options for the barras
Had two 4.2s, after driving 4.3 Vortecs for a while. Great engines, never ever used any oil, gas mileage was always consistent, power was on point and excellent. I chirped the tires a few times on both. Driving a 5.3 Tahoe right now, got an LS1 Camaro in the garage. Looking for a Corvette (found an LS6 Lingenfelter in another state today--contemplating...hmmm).
best part about my barra is it come in a 2010 sports and luxury edition ute.
Full leather, wireless car play, big stereo, heating and aircon, cruise control, Haltech ecu and dash. 750rwhp with some bolt ons and a tune
That's awesome dude!
wow that was very thorough! You must have fun putting your foot into it once you dial it in! I have a 2008 Trailblazer, bought it because of the inline 6, didn't realize it was that special. It has been very reliable and great in the snow!
As a huge fan of the Barra, I am totally chuffed to know about the 4200 here in the states. As you said, I can see a lot of interest in this engine developing. I get so bored with the same old SBC builds over and over. BTW, has anyone tried to carb one of these? Look awesome with 3 Webers!
If you spend enough you can get a tonne of power out of the Barra. There is a video of an orange Falcon that did 2200hp at a Summernats meet. The green top was an LPG engine with strengthened valve sleeves.
You are the Atlas champ. I know you aren’t the only one, but you are the main one. As it gets used more and more, it will all point back to you. That has to feel kinda cool.
It does. It's very humbling.
@@Calvin-Nelson Your videos really made me appreciate my trailblazer even more I'm very grateful thank you.
The greentops being mostly for taxi’s are built like tanks and very reliable, they’re infamous for being capable of pushing upwards of 1,000,000km on the odometer
That's awesome man!
I really enjoy watching something different at the starting line, racing what you have. It's crazy what those guys down under are getting out of 4 liters. There's an ancient saying; "That to finish first you, first have to finish". That 4.2 sure fits the bill, 800 hp with a bone stock bottom, pull after pull, wow. Your thoughts on bell housing patterns are spot on also, power has to make it to the tires. Keep making the videos, I'll keep watching. Can't wait for the header showdown. THX.
Thanks for watching!!
@@Calvin-Nelsonyou get 800hp out of stock rods and pistons 😳
Both are great engines, the 4200 probably would've done well in australia as we seem to love 6cylinders and big turbo's
A few things to add RIPSS that 2200hp barra that still runs a stock head with minimal work. so breathability definitly isnt a issue and to add it still uses the factory oil drain setup (car is setup to be daily driven) it doesnt suffer the same fate as the RB platform
Transmission situation isn't as hard as you put it, its quite easy. plenty of places sell adapter plates or complete bellhousings that'll pretty much to go any transmission, i bought a th400 bellhousing not long ago for $150usd.
Oil pump is really only an issue if you plan or sitting at high RPM or bouncing off the limiter, we have plenty of 600-800hp cars still using factory gears (which im not a fan of but they still do it)
There has been a few guys making 1000-1100whp on the Gas rods, (im still skeptical but they have dyno footage to prove it)
I seen a comment about Flexplate bolts ( stop using stock or shit bolts). a nice set of ARP bolts on a nice flexplate solved any issues.
Lol we don't need it tbh, for anything above 4L we have the Nissan tb48 👌 capable of absolutely stupid hp lol
Had a 06 Trailblazer and have to say the engine was silky smooth and delivered power pretty well. The 4sp auto tranny didn't help much for great power delivery but it could get out of its own way when prodded.😊
Thank you for all your wisdom. I love my 4200 with 200000 plus miles she has never left me stranded.
Yep. They just go and go and go and go!
Loved this comparison Calvin. As always, great content.
Thank you for all this awesome info and all the work you put into the channel!
Small correction about the Barra's availability - It was also the engine dropped in to the Ford Territory, which was a mid sized SUV available in RWD and AWD, and with Turbo fed variants.
The Territory is probably unknown in the US, bloody brilliant car when released, but suffered from Ford US controlling the corporate budgets, and deciding the Ford Everest, made in a country where Ford could underpay workers, was cheaper to import to Australia then it was to build the Territory. The biggest travesty is that the Aussie made SUV was not allowed by Ford US to be built or exported to LHD countries, same as the internal embargo placed on the Aussie Falcon at the very same time that GM was doing LHD Commodores to send to the US as Pontiac G8's. If you lot had gotten the BA and FG series, you would have been shocked at the ride and handling performance, let alone the FPV F6 spec cars.
One of the reasons Ford US spat the dummy over the Falcon's and Territory's, was because Aussie buyers had soundly rejected the FWD Taurus, which was pitched as a new luxury model priced above the Falcon, but was of such shitty build quality, ride and handling that no one that drove it wanted to buy it, when Ford US had decided to try drop the Falcon's in the late 90's, and replace them with RHD imports.
Ford Taurus, a friend had as a company car i drove and it was unfun. lots of comfort tech but ugly and a shitty drive.
1998 I hired a FORD Taurus in LA drove to Las Vegas via death valley and to Grand canyon and back to LA.
It was a far better car than the RHD shit boX Ford sent to Australia.
Was looking forward to this video and your opinions on the pros and cons between both, great video!
Thanks so much!
Epic. Can't wait to see how things progress further. However, I also want more focus on the 5-cylinder Atlas since that'll actually fit in my application. That, and a 90mm de-stroke crank (for both) if possible. IMO 90mm is the best stroke for a street car, 8000rpm capable at only 24 m/s piston speed. The ultimate goat would be if all of that was doable ON TOP of a diesel conversion, but that's because I'm too much of a min-maxer trying to have my cake (fuel economy) and eat it too (power).
Destroked 4200 crank would be sick. Same for the 5, but I'd be more stoked for the 6
I had the 4 cylinder version for a while (2.8L) and it was an amazing engine! Great power output and great fuel economy too.
There's a work truck tax on the 4/5 cyl Atlas so they're less attractive compared to GM car engines like Ecotecs and V6 options that make more power at less weight/size/cost.
@@mattbirt114 now that's interesting. Seems to be completely different from how it works over here in Germany. A truck registration for a car can save you some car tax money. The specific engine type doesn't matter. So, for example, one may get a truck registration for a VW rabbit by taking out the rear passenger seats and removing the rear seat mounts to make a transporter out of it, this will save tax money for the exact same engine.
@@nopadelik9286 Lol German literal English interpretation moment. Ok, it's not an actual tax on the used engine. They just cost more than they should, like 10x what a 4200 costs ($3000 vs $300).
Although we have a love for hot 6s in Aus ,v8s are just as popular here lol
We had a huge v8 obsession all the way up to the late 90s which is still alive today 👌
A lot of U.S. ls guys are using Aussie ls parts like plazmaman, pwr, haltec etc.
Great comparison between the 2 engines though 👍
Good points on the ease of getting parts staying with locally available engines.
I wouldn't use a 4.2 when the barra is readily available and cheap 👍
Actually buying a fg falcon xr6 turbo myself shortly (2008-2015) for my new daily/weekend fun car, going for 500whp which is plenty in a street car, can run on pump 98 (your 95) and will still maintain reliability 👌
We're not only kings at barras but Nissan rbs and rotory's too 👌🤣
I love what you guys are doing with all the platforms. All I meant by the V8 statement, is V8 stuff is way more common over here. We got the truck LS stuff, so it makes it a natural choice.
The RB stuff you guys have developed is awe inspiring
I’ve been looking for a video like this for a minute. Thank you so much
246K on my stock Trailblazer 4.2 and it has the original trans. I did change the trans oil and filter once. Sometimes I suck about 4 quarts out through the dipstick tube and then add fresh oil. Just changed motor mounts, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, front brake rotors and pads, front wheel bearings, and rear brake pads. Out of frustration, I ripped out the module that changes from defrost to floor to dash and threw it in the yard. So, it now only blows from the dash vents. Now, I need to change the temperature blend door actuators and I'll be good. LOL. Changed a lot of front-end parts and motor mounts throughout the years. In my opinion, the Trailblazer 4.2 is one of the best vehicles ever made, apart from a 1962 C10.
Im a Ford guy but appreciate power and availability of parts, i have a Barra in my F100 but have 0 intentions to go over about 600whp. I also want 400whp in my Opel and will be using the Atlas 2800 4cyl but its a beasty fella for the room available without butchering the car too. All about what aggravation you are willing to work thru, you have proven the 4200 is worthy and the Barra has been proven so its up to the brand loyalists to choose now lol
Yep. I like them both. They are such a fun combo either way
th-cam.com/video/QH3SiAr3gec/w-d-xo.html
Awesome ep. Slight correction on the trans issue however, you can buy multiple bellhousings to suit th400, powerglide, c4 etc. you can cut off the oem bell and bolt the conversion bell to the pump bolts. Companies like Circle D also offer drop in converter options state side. Also we’ve never seen any issued with oil pooling in the cylinder heads. RB’s however suffer massively from oil pooling
Good to know. Appreciate the expert response.
I'm very surprised they don't have head draining issues. Good to hear.
Benny! If anybody knows everything barra related its this man!
Rbs are better than both regardless 🤷
@@oetic5016If we are talking about sound, I agree 100%
Stop dreaming
Nice video man. I like when people take the time to explain motors
Theres 3 variations of the "red top" engine. From 2002 to 6-2006 they had thin garbags rods. After that they had bigger rods and 10-2008 they released the engine with stainless steel valves for the new body shape FG falcon. Late model FG turbo barra or late FPV "blue top" barras are the best
VERY glad you made this. There is not a good unbiased review online that i could find. Doing gods work- you are a pioneer in the journey of the aftermarket swap world of 4200s
Great video. I've always wanted to mess with the Atlas inline engines, and this only makes me want to more!
yes, ever since i found your older videos making the Atlas a power house and been closely following cuz im oogling a trailblazer that blew her headgasket and has been sitting after that... this just gives me hopes that support ramps up and lowers prices so it becomes accessable to me
Have been with the old one from the big three 250 chevy, 300 Ford, 258 AMC, but LOVE The BARRA. Never got one and never will ......
The comparison was outstanding and I did not know about the 4200 Vortec from before, but the Pontiac overhead cam inline 6 was a brilliant in its time. Thanks for all the good info, just amazing know how......
That was very interesting and informative! I've been thinking about trying to build a /6 mopar engine. Of course I will definitely need someone who actually knows what they're doing to help guide me but I've seen a few pretty quick ones and I always thought that it would be cool to run one in something like a little Plymouth Arrow. Great Video!
Thanks! I love the old schools 6s I fully support the slant 6 build.
As for stock potential power the Barra was competing in a market were fuel consumption was a bigger deal were the Atlas was competing against V8s so the rods was one place the Ford engineer's could save some weight. Keep up the 4200 videos 👍🇭🇲
well that is one place the barra loses out awfully, fuel economy or lack of it mine loves its petrol
@@victor22366mine is great one gas and I trash it every day
I have a 06 Trailblazer EXT with a 07 engine, son blew up original. Thought this 4.2 would be nice in a late 50's-early 60's Jag sedan, but I have been seriously thinking about putting whole frame and electronics under a 41 Ford Super Deluxe sitting in my drive way I think I saw you in the Nova a couple years ago. Fantastic what you have done with this platform.
Funny that you made this comment. Ive been in the process of putting a 4200 in my 55 Jaguar Mark VII. Fits like a glove so far. Still working on getting it running.
The cressida in my profile pic has a sbe fg turbo engine, has cams, studs, springs and pump gears, has made 900rwhp through a glide and has done for years, admittedly it doesn't get turned up that much very often and all the power is up top to keep the rods happy. There is a video on my channel on the dyno where it made 800rwhp but has been turned up since then when it went 900.
Great upload mate 👌
That's awesome brother!!! Love it! Keep doing what you're doing my friend!
Calvin, I follow several Australian YT'ers (eg: Ben Neal and his Cresta with TH400 trans). 1st comparison I've seen. A Barra in a '66 Mustang fastback would rule, but you'd have to airfreight spares. There's a '68 4 door Nova in my neighborhood that would be an ideal Vortec sleeper ☺
Yeah. I'm a huge fan of the Barra guys. They're a huge inspiration. Both of those would be a super cool build!
There's a 64' mustang in Melbourne Australia that had a sohc Falcon motor turbo on lpg running 9s until he went v8 turbo. Very nice car.
Benny was just here in his Barra powered Cresta doing Midwest drags
@@jord9308 I was going to go to Atco and meet up, work got in the way :(
The green top lpg had the bigger rods first, going back to the sohc motor. They don't have floating piston pins unlike the 2004 on turbo motors.
Ok. My bad. I read somewhere that they had the skinny rods for the early production.
@@Calvin-Nelson the turbo did but but the LPG green Tops. They used to backfire on lpg. There's also a higher compression straight lpg motor too.
@@Low760 Oh, you're saying the early red tops had skinny rods?
@@Calvin-Nelson yes. When you said about the lpg motor that's what I'm informing the people of.
Thats not quite correct.
The SOHCs didnt get the 3R23 rods, and the first couple of months of green top barras didnt get the 3R23 rods.
Either way, you would be unlucky to get a greentop without the good rods these days.
Calvin, the green top 3R23 rods were the same as the later turbo rods, except all turbo rods had floating gudgeons, where as all NA engines had press fit gudgeons.
Red tops had the skinny 1R23 rods till 06/2006, then they got the 3R23 rods.
All black top and blue top engines got the 3R23 rods.
I'm a Ford Guy, and everything you said is wrong, and I'm here to tell you about it. 😂 Great video Calvin. Really wish I had the time/money/drive to Atlas swap my Grand Prix, but honestly am ready for the next build (which involves another inline six). Hopefully I turn that page in Q4. It will make sense then.
GM has been using the same bell housing pattern on 90° V6 and V8s for almost 70 years.
The 4200 is so under rated and under appreciated. Really is the best bang for the buck in terms of capability and performance.
Yep. For sure.
And reliability!
and lets it stay that way. hate taxes, like jdm tax shit
@@stiligru8468I'm with ya on that jdm will break the bank
1:40
Surly someone has mentioned this already but the FalconBarra's were also available in New Zealand.
(Just like previous iterations of the Falcon were available in NZ)
We seem to be Australias snot nose shady younger brother always trying to rax big bros toys and jumpin all in on their hand me downs
Edited due to excessive amount of cones...
That's fair. My bad. Sorry for leaving the Kiwis out.
And south africa, and the odd aisian country (taiwan iirc, a couple of territorys went over?)
And word on the street is the US got barras in some forklifts, although ive never seen proof of it.
If that is indeed true, you should be able to get random gaskets.
@@MRMOPARMAN0426 I don't believe that is true. I feel like people would talk about that. That's a giant motor for a forklift. Lol
@@MRMOPARMAN0426 yeh, was going to mention SA, but wasn't 100% sure..cheers for that
@@Calvin-Nelson Sweet As, Chur.
Aussie bloke here , yep, your facts are correct .
Calvin sir, I love the research and knowledge you've invested towards the 4200, and while some may say you're impartial to the 4200, I think everything you laid out is well within reason when comparing either power plant. It's cool knowing the hidden advantages available in our stateside solution given theirs not many who go out of their way to highlight the Atlas like you have.
Yeah. I got a few details wrong, but it wasn't intentional. Thanks for being charitable to me.
Barra was also available in New Zealand but that’s not a real country anyway.
Better than your country
There’s an in-line 5 variant that came in Colorados I think that’s a super cool engine as well.
Yep. For sure.
Came in the H3 Hummer as well. I have been upgrading mine. Got a super nice header coming from Sanderson Headers in San Francisco coming this week. Also I'm surprised no one is trying to steal the front calipers off the H3. They are 4 piston and look like what is on a 2010 and newer Camaro. They are bigger than what was on my 2001 Silverado with a 4.8 LS. If you really dig into the H3 they were over engineered in a lot of ways.
@@Hummin_Along They only put the 5 cylinder in the Hummers.
H3 as well
@@Calvin-Nelsonhere is the answer I was looking for. I thought the Colorado engine was the 5 cyl.
Thats not the same in any way then.
So not worth trying to boost & all that.
i had a 2006 trailblazer in 2016 till 2018. i knew what i had but i was 18 and broke so i ended up braking the motor sadly from lack of oil... young and dumb. im glad ive finally found a channel as obcessed with this motor as I am.
As an Aussie, ive fpund your channel and particularly the info on the 4200 fascinating. Nice comparison.
The grey and early green top has what you would call 1r23 rods which are the na rods, then the later green tops and the turbo rods have 3r23 rods and they are substantially bigger. The difference between the two 3r23 rods is the turbo engines have a fully floating wrist pin and the lpg and na engines have a press fit pin
Yep. Good to know. I don't think what I said in the video was inaccurate.
It sucks they stopped making the Barra’s and the 4200’s both are such amazing engines
I wanted a Barra after watching the Aussies. But now you make me want a 4200. This coming from someone who has a few Coyotes (and a few GM "LS" swaps).
Great video, Bunch of interesting info. Love my 4200. Keep the video coming
The LS V8 actually was available as early as 2003 in the GMT360 / 70 (Buick Rainier, and long wheel base versions of the Isuzu Ascender, Trailblazer, and GMC Envoy) platform as a 5.3 until the Trailblazer SS came out in later years. I have an 03 Envoy XL with the 5.3 but I originally wanted one with the 4200 until I figured out there wasn't really any performance aftermarket support for it.
Wish GM would have stuck with the original TBSS concept, the turbo 4.2 making 400hp. If they had then there would have been a ton of aftermarket support available
it was extremly rare but some swb trailblazers had 5.3s
An Atlas will probably be my next build
Want to try running one in x275 for the weight break
Nice!! That will be very cool
Idk man that’s a tall order for a 4200 block even with the weight break you would have to make 1900+whp to run in the middle of the pack and the front runners in the class are making 2400+! I would try ultra street with one first but even then it’s not gonna be easy and then your gonna need a 150,000 dollar roller with carbon and titanium everything it would be badass combo though!
@@JWoody1990 Maybe the fellow has the actual ability, experience, skills to fabricate the necessary frame ?!
😂
@@CoyoteFTW 😞
I really appreciate your content and your delivery. I hope I get the chance to watch your cars race, and to meet you in person one day.
You're very welcome. Don't be afraid to come say Hi!
For those talking about the flex plate bolts; yes they do have a habit of backing out, got nothing to do with how many bolts it’s to do with the thickness of the flex plate, it’s thin so clamping force and vibration are the problem,usualy after market thicker flex plate or a simple bolt locking ring will fix it,been there done that,and for some a little weld on the bolts but not really recommended
I always felt like the Ford 6.2L (offered in the super duty, 1st gen Raptor) is gonna be like these inline 6’s. Great performance capable engines just not recognized until later.
slap a 2.9L whipple on top and you can make upwards of 700
I lost the shop.
Oh no! You had better throw a chair through a window and leave the shop doing a burnout through the parking lot, the grass, the shop, and hell get up on the roof with it as well! Then sit down and tell us how everyone was against you from the beginning. 😂
I always wondered if the 4200 would be a good platform or not. I just found your page today and subscribed. I have been looking for a "different" engine for a project and have been wanting a Barra but as you stated in the video, getting one here in the states isn't the problem so much as it is finding replacement parts and what not. There is just no support here for them.... but the 4200 on the other hand.... so super cool and I'm going to watch the entire video catalog. Thanks for the great videos!
No worries. Welcome to the community
You are such a smart dude brother and have a great way of explaining things I love watching you and your dad work together and wish my father was like that love your channel so much it calms my anxiety and makes me think I could maybe try to build something but I don't know sheet lol anytime you need a helper or cleaner or I can cook like a mofoe
What's the cost per hp to build a 4200 vs, say, an LS?
I would say about 50% to 100% more. LS engines are hard to beat in the States
@@Calvin-Nelson there's just something about an inline six though. I had a handful of jeeps with the 4.0 and miss the feeling.
Very cool video! I knew some about these engines but that was really interesting to see all that info. I'm personally a huge fan of the Ford 300. I'm so happy seeing people trying to fit in LS heads to them nowadays. I am not sure I've seen a successful street version yet, but still awesome. Hopefully the Dodge/ Chrysler/ Fiat/stellantis new inline 6 will be able to be added to the mix in the future when we can start grabbing them up in junk yards. Hopefully they fit yhem to a lot of vehicles so they'll be easier and cheaper to get.
I like your positivity. You're my type of dude! I'm looking forward to seeing the Hurricane develop too.
Since the front axle goes throught the 4200s oil pan on 4x4 models, would it be possible to mount it backwards in the back of a car as a mid-rear engine? Or would that cause some oiling issues if its facing backwards?
None of the bolts would line up unfortunately.
@@Calvin-Nelson I don't mean just the oil pan, I was thinking of having the whole engine facing backwards in the back of a hatchback or something with a trans and transfer case in front of it and driving the rear wheels with what would have been the front diff. I'm just wondering if there would be any issues with oil getting thrown to the front of the engine under acceleration.
Thanks for replying.
Ive seen factory turbo Barras make over 700hp complete stock internals with a bigger turbo, pump and injectors, pretty safely, they are just an ideal platform to get power out of relatively cheaply
Yeah. We've done the same with the 4200 and they can be bought over here for $100, instead of $2000
@@Calvin-NelsonThat is a plus 😅 the price of them has gone stupid along with just about everything else good from Holden and Ford after they shut down here..
Staggering amount of information in this video. Doing the lords work!
I hope some company further invests in the 4200 in the future, to the point of CNC-machining blocks and heads and 3D-printing whatever else is required. It surely deserves.
this is my plan for my 77 gmc. time to plan, budget, find all the goodies and figure out the wiring system
Heck yeah!! Do it do it do it!!
Very good and informative video!
Great presentation!
Australia vs America. Except the Barra started with the falcon 170~ in the 60s.
The v8 that was around at the same time was the 5.4 3 valve and 4 valve. 260kw yet the LS ate it from Holden.
Chevy Ls.
I love all the time invested into the inline 6. I wish some of the stuff had made its way to the US.
@@Calvin-Nelson it's odd, the Grenada was the same chassis ford Australia used as well as one more model , they did a 4cyl version of the non crossflow Falcon 6, obviously it was not very good. But I'm Brazil they kept updating the xp (1964) Falcon until 1993 and they had a cross flow Falcon motor with the iron not alloy head and in 250ci and 200ci forms. Very much a grandpa's axe motor. Much like the intake and exhaust on the Barra, they are the sohc size.
@@Low760 the grenada looks like an XD, but actually shares stuff all with it. The chassis was XC (and earlier).
@@MRMOPARMAN0426 different Grenada. There was an American one and German one.
Hey Calvin. Great video. Really informative. I assume the lower frontal area of an I6 compared to a V8 might make it attractive for some speed records. Has anyone taken the Vortec to Bonneville?
And when can we expect to see you competing with the Stude? 😁
yes. The Vortec 4200 holds a couple records at Bonneville actually.
Almost done with break in on the Stude, so probably 2-3 weeks you should see a video.
I'm a Aussie so that 100% makes it only a Barra for me.
I'm currently collecting parts to build a 67/68 Mustang for Barra power. I have a early XF 1990 ute im using the T5 from.
Can use the 1990 to 2001 OHC 6 T5 bellhousing to adapt a earlier T5 so the shifter is in the right place
I could fit a Windsor but as I "Only" want 400hp a almost free Barra is the cheapest and simplest option
Grey top, standard computer with smart lock removed and locally available factory wiring harness modified for 3 wire connection.
Sick!! Hope it makes you super happy! Do you happen to know if the Barra matches any of the common Ford platforms?
@@Calvin-Nelson no, it’s unique, basically we had the 200 log head a direct copy of the USA 200, became a 221 for XT Falcon in 1968. From then to the Falcon Crossflow steel and alloy head right through to the end of the pushrod Falcon 250 in 1990 was the same bell housing pattern as the mid 1960 USA engines. (There was a 3 or so years when both push rod cross flow and SOHC 4 litre was made by Ford Australia)
When the EA Falcon came out in the late 1980s with its SOHC engine, it came out with a new bigger bell housing pattern that was used right to the end of the Barra production.
There might be variations of bell with thread sizes and dowel placement but my understanding is it’s the same 1988 to 2017
@@Calvin-Nelsonthere is a lot of support to run gm automatics, and they also run the ford c4 autos, the btr 4 speed they come out with are very terrible, they also offered them with a zf 6 speed derived from the European BMW's, jaguar and others that ran that, in manual trans they where offered with the t5z, t56 and tr6060 in the fpv models, so there is quite a lot of options
Where do you get performance parts for these engines?? I've got an 04 trailblazer that's going to need new rings pretty quick here and I'd love to build it, and how do you guys go about tuning these engines?
All that info and more is one here: sites.google.com/view/vortec4200wiki/home
i liked
i subscribed
i commented
Thanks bro! I guess I'm officially a TH-camr now. Lol!
Both WAY better than a small block v-8 or Japanese I6. Amera Barra Haters "Imitation is the highest form of flattery" These engines are both incredible with factory blocks. If the crank journal sizes are close enough( I am guessing based on my engine building experience) you could potentially use the slightly longer Barra rods in the 4200 along with some .025 overbore Barra pistons. Wrist pin height vs block deck height being the main concern.
Yeaaaa caus you never see RB26s making 800-1000 hp and holding together or even 2JZs for that matter 🙄
@@alexinnewwest1860 The amount it takes to get them there is.... EVERYTHING. So yes they exist but no I don't personally believe the small block are better than the big blocks. Use to run LS engines in my rail on alcohol and would use up between 2-3 a season. Switched to a 454 based block in 2017 and have only rebuilt it 3x's. No broken cranks or blocks. My point being yes the smaller engines can make the big dyno numbers but their not going to live as long at those extreme levels of cylinder pressure as well as a larger displacement engine with more material to spread the abuse across. The crank main, and rod journals are quiet a bit larger on the US engines as well as the block and head bolts...... The Japanese engine I have mad respect for but STILL NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
Hmm, Coyote Gen III or truck 5.0 (different firing order) are good to 1000hp. No knock on I6, a fan but “way better”?
@@ProjectFairmont Love a v-8 as much as the next guy but here are the facts like em or not. Basic I-6 Architecture dictates if all things are equal the I-6 will have more power and durability per/L. I-6 has 120 degrees of crank rotation to apply power on the power stroke. V-8 has only 90 degrees. I-6 has only 1 connecting rod per crank journal, all V engines share crank journals. More main journals per cylinder ie. i-6 has 7 mains for 6 cylinders when counting end journals a V-8 only has 5 mains when counted the same way. IN addition A straight-six engine has perfect primary and secondary engine balance, resulting in fewer vibrations than other designs of six or less cylinders. These are mathematical principals that transfer to engineering advantages. So yes WAY BETTER. These are the reasons over the road diesel in big rigs were rarely V-8's. Nearly all I-6's.
@@playanddisplay3636 like I said, a fan. Nothing you said I don’t already know, god bless ‘em. However, to say way better than V8? First of all early I6s did not have cross flow heads, is that a deal breaker, maybe maybe not. Fact remained it took more work to make ‘em work than a small block V8 cause they were smaller in displacement and couldn’t rev without major flow work. The Ford 300 is a long lump of an engine to go racing in a car. There is a huge gap between those anvil tough but crude sixes of the 50/60/70s and the Barra we never got (based on the OG US Falcon six) and the 4200. Filled kinda, by the 2JZ, and BMWs mostly. But still not critical mass. V8’s on the other hand have steadily improved and offer bang for the buck by virtue of availability, aftermarket support and basic robust qualities. Now if I was in OZ or NZ I would be all over the Barra haha!
Im australian, me and my brother who has a dyno shop bought a falcon with the NA barra 6. Has 350000kms on the clock. Didnt change any internals or even the oil or fuel lol. It went from 206rwhp to 306rwhp with 7 psi boost. To me that is very very impressive. Had a commodore with an GM L67 in it (supercharged 3.8L V6) running 8 psi and it made less than 200hp (they were 165kw at flywheel from memory)
Yep. The 3800 is not great unless you throw a bunch of boost at it. DOHC is almost incomparable to an old pushrod engine like that.
@@Calvin-Nelson yeah i get that and the fact one is 12 valve and the other 24 valve still its an amazing difference between engines of similar size.
Just wish GM would put some work into the 4.2 with some aftermarket parts and some "un-ugly" kits 😂 that Barra sure is a beauty compared to a very humble 4.2 but I love my Vortec
I’d love to build something for a 4200
Do it!!
Hate comments only come if you misspell capability wrong, or drive a Volvo ;). I'm only playful. I owed your dad one for that Texas Joke. Great video You all!
Thanks. Yeah. I was editing that at 2am. Lol. It looked right when your eyes are that tired.
I have more...
@@andrewnelson3733 LMAO I do too, isn't life great! Wanna see my horn? jk.
I love that you guys joke around and have a good time and don't take anything personal. I think that is great! Calvin I totally understand, I have more than a few misspellings in my videos and I'm like meh, sending it!
Enjoyed all the info Calvin....🙂👍🙏
Thanks Calvin, that's some good info.
Pretty on point info man. Thanks, good video 👍.
Articulate with a huge amount of great information. Well done young man.
Thanks
Am I correct in assuming that much of this information holds true for the 3.5L five knocker? Is there an option to pick up some low end from the 3.5?
Yeah. 5 should have similar capabilities. Just add turbo
This was very educational, although you got the rods in the red/green tops switched, the red tops came with the grey top rods until June 2006. My car being 2004 I will have to rebuild to make decent power
Ok. Yeah. It's really hard to find accurate info on the Barras. Wish it was easier.
So heres the breakdown for barra bottom ends:
Silver top (BA-BF): 400-450whp
1R skinny rods
Silver top (FG):
Some FG silver tops were fitted with the 3R and have the same capabilities as the LPG motor
BA BF Green top: can make up to 800+hp reasonably reliably (personal experience to prove) and all green tops did come out with the 3R thick rods. Dont know who started the rumour that the early green tops didn't have thick rods but its not true as ive personally torn down green tops from first series to last series
Red tops: 450-800hp
The first series of red top factory turbo engines were fitted with skinny rods but were changed to 3R rods for obvious reasons. FGs have been seen making 1000hp on stock bottom ends
In terms of LPG to turbo bottom ends, press fit wrist pins and compression ratio are the only major differences. Turbos in the 8s with dished pistons and LPG motors in low 10s. We can't run our LPG motors on anything but E85 as the comp is too high and they break ring lands. Turbo motors usually make their power on regular pump unleaded
The basic build for 6-700whp from a LPG motor is as follows:
Oil pump gears
Headgasket
Head studs
Valve springs
With that combination you can comfortably make 6-700hp and 800+ftlbs pr torque all day every day. If it goes bang, you pop down to the wreckers and buy another green top fron a taxi for $250
I have personally seen an unknown kilometre, stock headgasket, stock pump gear green top make close to 800whp. It lasted 5 months of absolute abuse before bending 4 rods.
Ok. Nice. So it sounds like what I said in the video wasn't far off.
@@Calvin-Nelson Yeah mate did a pretty good job. If there's anything else you wanted to clarify let me know. I deal with Barras for a living.
@@retardedcheesewheel2921 I appreciate that! It's really hard to find info on them.
hey is there somewhere i can overall dims on both engines?? been thinkin if i could maybe drop one into my 1st gen ranger..
Not sure on Barra, but here is the 4200. sites.google.com/view/vortec4200wiki/dimensions?authuser=0
Vortec is king fun fact GM had tested a boosted Vortec and it made a TON of power
I'm not into either of these engines but I did own the Trailblazer for a while but this really is very good work good video