Bike Industry: Is Weight Now More Important Than Aero?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- With the launch of several new weight focused bikes and products is the bike industry now turning its attention once again to weight? Or is aero the real best focus for bikes and us when it comes to performance?
Content
0:00 Why are modern bikes heavy?
1:54 New Orbea Orca
4:42 Lightweight wheels
6:53 Does Weight Really Matter?
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The only thing getting lighter nowadays is cyclists wallets......
No kidding. I bought a bike to lose weight and the only place where it worked was in my wallet.
😂
It does now that everyone bought an Aero bike, the industry needs to convince people they need a light bike too to sell more bikes. Pretty straightforward.
Ah! Big Bike now eh? Conspiracy theorists have moved on!
@@firmbutton6485 BIKE INDUSTRY BAD. USE RIM BRAKES ON YOUR CAR.
I just test rode a Trek Emonda with wireless SRAM Force. $5,000 for a 19lb bike. 😂
@veganpotterthevegan lol I've had very similar experience. I got super expensive bikes and 1 I built below 15lbs when I was a weight weenie. My favorite bike right now is my touring ti bike that's super heavy but many it feels so comfortable/over built and stiff at the right places! I will never get ride of it
Rinse and repeat.
If you're obsessed with numbers and taking KOM's on Strava, aero is the way to go. If you enjoy riding and pretending you're a GC climber on your local hill, nothing beats the feel of a lightweight bike. Super deep aero rims may be faster on paper, but in the world of stoplights and crawling up hills, the faster initial spin up of a lightweight wheel feels faster. My days of fighting for a local podium are behind me, I prefer something lighter to give me the psychological advantage needed to keep the youngsters in sight on long climbs.
Aero combined with light weight is the perfect comination. I remember when I changed bikes from 9,3kg to 7,8kg. The difference was really big. Better handling, more responsive. Also felt mentally stronger every time when I was approaching a climb. Most of us don't care about the minimal gains, but light weight just feels really nice. Nowadays the lightweight bikes has aero features like Integrated aero cockpit, integrated cables, aero seatpost, frames are lighter, but still aero.
I agree but I think the next jump from 7.8 to 6.8 would be a negligible difference, mentally and physically
It's a placebo. Lightweight has essentially no difference in speed times
@@jason200912Even on a steep climb?
@@GoriRJ right even on a steep climb weight is already established by your body so any kg reductions is mostly placebo performance. For climbing the most important factor is your personal power output and if you have gears designed for torque and not gears designed for downhill speed
@@GoriRJmall weight difference say 1 kilo in frame and parts is not that much and makes very little difference when a cyclist is at peak fitness because rider power is most important. Careful choice if gearing is much more beneficial. If you're say at 100% fitness on a 6.5 kgs bike with grinder gears up a hill then you do the same on a bike of 7.5kgs but better spinning gearing then you'd hardly notice any weight penalty. I experienced this myself more than once and at my peak fitness and lowest body weight gearing up hills is my biggest advantage. Really you only notice weight disadvantages over 2 kilos plus up hills on similar gearing and it's if that Wrigyht is in the wheels and tyres that is most discernable.
What you say about the total weight against the bike weight also goes for the aero part: only a small part of it is about the bike. Most of it is about your body and your position on the bike. And..for most of us all out speed is not the point. We ride to exercise, go as fast as we can, within the limits of whatever materials we have.
The trouble with optimizing the bike's weight is, as you mention, that the rider makes up 90% of the total system weight.
But, on the other hand, the problem with optimizing the bike's aerodynamics is that the rider makes up 90% of the total system drag.
If you really want to get faster, swapping to a narrow, flared drop bar is probably the best value in the bike industry right now.
"System weight" so true and so overlooked.
@@glennoc8585 it is, but the industry will never say anything about the 80kg potato sitting on a super aero / lightweight bike as it will make all their claims to be thrown outside the window.
@@TheRimBrakeGuy or the 89kg one )-: At 80kg I'd be delighted! (NB 185cm height)
I don't know about most people, but I wrench my own stuff. I truly hate working on my newer era bikes VS my old ones. It's actually aggravating and not fun to do simple tasks. I wish companies would focus on us rather than some 2w aero gain of hiding a cable THROUGH A HEADSET BEARING.
Back to rim brakes then please for proper lightweight bikes 👍
@@CZ-JAM...Eit is perfectly possible to design some rim brakes which can accommodate wider tyres.
Omega One Aero Brake or eeBrakes can already do 30mm tyres if you wanted to, there are solutions out there. Now the question is why would you put anything bigger than a 28mm on a road bike? Because some PR guy told you it is aero? Throw him to the lions! (=Hambini for a roasting along with his hairdresser!)
@@CZ-JAM...E I’m already runnning 28mm at 75psi 🤷♂️
@@CZ-JAM...E Wide tires are there to compensate for the too stiff frames which had to be introduced to manage those idiotic disc brakes.
2022 Giant TCR advanced pro 1 rim brake. With winspace Hyper 33,s (1200kg). Killer lightweight bike better than any of these expensive areo bikes out there.
I said the industry was going to pull this just three days ago. After spending years making bikes heavier with all this "innovation" and preaching aero, they've essentially created another problem to be solved. With money, your money.
They must think their customers are stupid. Oh wait, they are! (not me of course)
We created the solution to the problem we created! Now pay us money to solve it for you!
For a week end warrior like me riding mix roads, a light bike (below 7kg) with raciy geometry feels more snappy and responsive
I'm waiting for the release of the light climbing bike with new fangled rim brakes.
Great presentation Dave. It'd be great to hear the views of the Pros' mechanics as to what they consider, in their views, as the perfect balance between areo and weight.
It's my understanding that lighter wheels are not necessarily faster, but rather the distrubution of weight from the centre to the outer rim is what is more crucial. I would love to hear their views on whether the added weight of disc brakes genuinely makes up for speed gains.
I suspect interviewing bike manufacturers comes with a certain product bias. Hence I suspect the mechanics to the pro riders have a greater insight to what makes a perfect bike.
It's another decade. It was weight for 10 years to get the UCI limit, then when they started releasing sub UCI weight limits, they decided to go "aero is everything" and while were at it lets do disc brakes. Now they've exhausted the aero and left everyone heavy, so 10 years later and were back to weight, but now aero! What a time to be alive 🤣
My 25 year old titanium Merlin Odyssey with Mavic Ksyrium wheels, rim brakes, and Shimano DuraAce components is lighter than any of these modern lightweight bikes.
I think I needed to concentrate on my weight first! 😂
My Cervelo R3 SL (2008) road bike weighs 6.6 kg - with Sram Red mech, Dura Ace 24 wheels, Favera pedals, bottle cages, and computer mount. I have a hard time thinking about replacing it with a newer, more expensive bike that weighs more and probably twice the cost.
there is really no need, the industry went backwards when disc brakes where introduced, as it became their only selling point, but then everything became heavier at the stress points (frames, wheels with increased spoke counts, and now tyres at 30mm which are needed so the surface area for the brakes to work has increased). Its a mess and the consumer is being laughed at from bad business decisions.
My 2014 is 6.5 with rim brakes, no integrated cockpit, no "aero" proprietary seat post and SRAM red mechanical...no way would I want to bleed brakes, hunt down a non-standard seatpost or order some $900 dollar cockpit to change my reach. Insane.
Titici has had the really flat top tube profile for years now. Funny to see both Factor and Orbea also taking this route.
I think the bike industry was lying. When disk brake bikes first came out they could not make them light enough to compare to rim brake light bikes so they added a bit of aero and said weight doesn't matter and every magazine/reviewer said the same thing of course. Now, they are now able to make disk brake bikes as light as rim brake bikes, and suddenly, weight matters again.
Lightweight has always mattered... just the industry could not make them.
I bet lightweight disc brakes warp faster
@@jason200912 its not only the discs that are heavier, it is also the frames (they needed added strength to the mount junction areas) and the wheels with added spoke count and beefed up hubs to counter the forces exerted from the disc brake calipers. You also seen recently the push to 30mm tyres because they are more (laughably) aero, this is only due to the fact they know for disc brakes to work correctly they need more tyre surface, which 25mm/28mm just don't have.
Wow my trek madone 4.7 2008 back in fashion. Woop Woop!!
Companies need something tangible to market, and with aero increasing weight recently, guess what? Yep, "this model is 1kg lighter than our outgoing model".
They love to PR the solution to a problem they introduced in the first place! :D
The current version of the bike I ride is almost 1kg heavier then mine, which is it's predecessor from 12 years ago. Weight isn't a big factor for me, but bikes close to 10 kg.. (looking at the more affordable models).. that's very old school.
Those carbon wheels are a definite no go for me. I need dependable stuff that is easy and cheap to repair.
David, What bike do you suppose has the best combination now?
The more lightweight bikes with integrated cable launched, the 2nd hand Sworks Aethos frameset selling for less than £2k now.
Balance is the word. The bike needs to match the weight of the rider, something the industry doesn’t talk about nor do they talk about the handling or feel. Hence all the wider tires for comfort etch, etch.
Nothing rides better than a lightweight steel bike for me👌 and i own carbon, aluminium also.
I still suspect Specialized plans to release two new Tarmacs, both light, but one more for climbing to replace the Aethos and the other a little more aero but not full out aero giving riders more subtle options within categories like MTBs
Love your channel maté.
Greetings from the Netherlands on my 2012 model TCR Advanced II.. with a Fulcrum Wind 40c AC3 full carbon wielset (2019).
Next year I'm going to buy a new bike..
why will you pay money to downgrade ? better keep the money and spent it in beer
@@TheRimBrakeGuy hahahahaha beer 🍻 is always a good thing...but I got the money to spend... it's going to be a new giant TCR or a Trek Emonda slr 7.. maybe a Tarmac sl7 🤳.
We see..but I agree it's a very good bike the advantage II
@@ChrisSmit1977 indeed! but if you feel like spending some money take a new 50mm wheelset for 1300grams (e.g. ELITE wheels or Winspace) add TPU tubes and you just saved half a kilo off your current bike while being more aero. Big win! You can offset the cost also by selling the current wheelset you have and end up with a sweet deal.
@@TheRimBrakeGuy I'll think about it ..Hero!!.
And how, just done with work now off to home.
Have a good evening and rest of the day
In two or three years rim brake will become new trend as they are light and aero. Just sayin'
"aS lIgHt As PoSsIbLe" with disc brakes, this is the real bike brands' madness
Some of us want to use carbon wheels without them warping after a long descent.
Dont ride the brakes on a descent. Stand up and parachute yourself
As light as possible* *(as long as you don't compare us with our old rim brake bikes, please don't)
@@onegrapefruitloveron't believe everything you hear or read. Won't happen unless it's 35+ degrees air temp and your holding breaks constantly while descending without any skill and your 100kg.
Cervelo slc sl 54cm SRAM Red 10 speed, Zipp 404 tubulars = less than 15 lbs. 2008. No special parts. Aero and light. Bike industry is all about making as much money as possible. The engineers no longer have a voice.
Weight weenism is a bit silly. I did a weight weenie build, then swapped a lot of key components for "watts". Yes the bike is heavier (6kg to 7.1kg) but it's much faster and more comfortable. It's very easy to find a middle ground that makes the most of everything which is why the pro bikes are well above the very arbitrary UCI limit
One of several reasons I got a Dogma this year that’s prob pushing 8kg with power meter pedals, cafes, etc, instead of trying to get a bike down to the weight limit (or lower bcs Idgaf about the UCI).
i think its a mixed bag for the mass majority, even the top 20% that do fondos on road or gravel. its hard to fork over a few thousand to shave a lbs when a gravel rig can easily take on or off a few lbs due to gear, bags, hydration, food, etc...
You repeat the phrase ‘natural progression’ quite often but I can’t help but hear ‘Nike industry marketing’
So, in my experience:
Aero (i.e. in most cases, a bit heavier) feels focused and in most scenarios/on Strava sections is faster.
Lightweight (as long as it is also stiff) feels fun, snappy and makes you smile. Particularly if you enjoy climbing/pain.
I am not a professional cyclist, so I really don’t give a shit about saving [inset small number of] seconds over 1 hour at 40 kmph.
To take the example of another wonderful sport, I buy skis because of how they “feel”, not because the pros use them. Same with bikes. Sorry Specialized - I’ve got a couple of your awesome bikes. But Aero isn’t Everything.
I’ve always preferred lightweight. I’ve always bought cheaper road bikes and upgraded them over time starting with some decent carbon wheels. I’m currently riding a cannondale Optimo (£975 brand new). I’ve spent time reducing the weight within a very sensible budget, Prime 50mm carbon wheels, latex inner tubes, carbon seatpost and saddle, I’ve even swapped out the bottle cage bolts out for nylon bolts that weigh next to nothing ( don’t need water for my 34 mile daily commute). Still riding rim brakes too, but that’s because I love my bike and don’t feel the need to upgrade currently 🤘
Awesome, what's the weight now. I just bought an Optimo, and will be doing the same thing. I think I can get it to 16lbs. Maybe 15 I put shallow wheels on it
@@kimwarner6050 just over 7.3 kilograms, that’s just over 16 lbs I think. I did the same with my cannondale caad12, that was an amazing bike, really wish I hadn’t sold that one.
You can ditch the latex tubes for TPU ones, they are much lighter, lose air slower and far less expensive. You will also make around 100-200gr savings from the bike + spares.
You can also reduce quite a bit of weight if you check the proper handlebar tape and gear/brake cables. A combo aero handlebar/stem can reduce the weight by +100-200grams, and go narrow at 38-40cm max for all the aero benefits.
@@TheRimBrakeGuy how much do TPU tubes weigh? I thought my latex tubes were light 🤔
I think a lot of it is internal cables. Like how light is a fullly built tcr sl dura ace with nothing to exotic? 6.6ish in a medium? And it’s aero enough :)
They said they set a target stiffness and then conditional on that stiffness minimized the weight, they did not just minimize the weight ...
the bike industry wants to sell you expensive bikes, shocker
The bikes may be more aero, but most of the drag is from the lump of meat on the bike. Aero is a marginal gain of less than 1% for the rider and bike. It is time for the industry to dump marketing hype.
Great bike! for cost and affectability
Perhaps aero gains are reaching the point of diminishing returns; i.e. it's getting hard to gain much more through aero improvements. So now the manufacturers are now going back to weight savings to continue making progress.
8% climb 1kg saves 3 watt and you complain that the orca frame is not 100g ligter? - sums up everything wrong with the bike industry
Now the market is looking for aerodynamics instead of weight but... is a bike with two discs between the wheels more aerodynamic? Is a wheel with more spokes more aerodynamic? Are larger levers (for hydraulic liquid) more aerodynamic? is a battery over front and rear derailleur more aerodynamic? the goal IS NOT "aerodynamics" is just to increase the price
And make the parts unique and not interchangeable or serviceable.
I recall a quote from Lance Armstrong when Trek presented him with an aero, super stiff, and super light road bike. And he said that that bike was amazingly fast, but was too uncomfortable and didn’t approve it. I can only say such a bike, NOW, would be within the realm of possibility with how carbon layering methods are at this point in manufacturing
Lance rides aero bikes now
@@glennoc8585 yes he gotten slow so he went aero 😂
I prefer the all-rounder tbh, I also personally really dislike the look off these ultralight frames in general.
Weight for an amateur is the most important factor when climbing and even on flat. It is physics, less mass more acceleration. Anyway the solution is still here and cheap, aero rim brake bike such as bianchi xr4 or pinarello dogma f rim brake, that outperform lots of the bike on the market right now, can easily come under 7 kg (mine is 6.7) just by swapping wheels. Aero frame with light rim brake and groupset, and two pair of wheels (tubular climbing wheels and tubeless aero wheels)... perfect solution.
If companies tout both AERO and LIGHTWEIGHT, then why do they only offer disc brake bikes which are neither Aero or Light ???
im 200 lbs, does my bike weighing 2 lbs more really make a difference?
Nope. Even if you're 145 pounds I doubt 2 lbs make a difference. For endurance sport, it's the engine that makes the difference, not the gear. For example, people says racing running shoe makes them faster than a daily training shoe. I bet professionals can outrun me without wearing shoe!
I hope so! 😉
actually orbea orca using the 28/33 wheels, it is 6.5kg, with intergrated cockpit and some minor modifications, 6.3-6.4kg is possible.
@67 yrs old I lover my Aethos.
I think another area to drop weight that’s overlooked is the crankset.
There isn't really that much that can be done in that area. Of course dropping shimano will save you quite a bit immediately both in terms of weight as well as money, because everything they sell below the top price models is intentionally made quite heavy. However below that, there is only carbon and other funny stuff that can't be really recommended due to durability issues and the associated dangers. Around 600-700g is where you land.
@@rosomak8244 didn’t know that. It was a guess cause I just got a new crank and it’s v.heavy.
In my experience and I am a beginner hill climber. An aero bike at a similar or slightly heavier weight is faster even at relatively low speeds. I climb at an average of 12.5 kmh.
What about quality, round holes, and carbon frames with no voids!? Sipmpel! Please deliver!
Be nice to know what the weight limit on these lightweight bikes is.
there is no minimum weight for non-uci approved frames. the limitations are purely physical and cost-based.
Sorry, rider + kit weight limit
@@Timashmore usually, manufacturers will list total system weight on their product pages. for instance, the cube litening air has a max system weight of 115kg. as the built bike is around 7kg, i'd imagine you could subtract 10kg or so to get an estimation of rider weight.
If you do the build yourself, the orbea bike can be lighter that the aethos, has the frameset is rather light the components not so much
yup, I've also seen S-works Tarmacs sl7 builds that where lighter than the Aethos by way of a well spec'd group set, and scuba deep pockets
@@mmurmurjohnson2368 it is what it is 🕳️🏦💵
Hookless a stronger wheel makes zero connection with reality. That marketing ploy has been exposed enough to, at least, be accompanied with justifiable doubt.
What marketing ploy is that then, out of interest?
Hookless rims are cheaper to produce.
IYKYK
This Orbea Orca looks better than the Aethos with the slanted top tube
Well they have to make them light now in order counteract abs , lol
plenty dentists out there waiting to splurge
I have laugh a bit every time a company makes a Aero claims, if you dive in deeper the aero advantage will only come into play if you go faster than 40km/h, and by the time you take into consideration what we eat, position on the bike, clothes and body types there goes the Aero advantage 😂😂
It is more joyable to ride lighter bikes. Snappy = happy. 😊My Aethos weigh 6.430 with D-A pedals.
When is the real world test coming? Thanks
Orbea is going for the UCI standard otherwise they could do it easily, so critic does not stand IMO. ALSO the prices! Those other two costa bit more compared to Orbea!
Untill their able to make a lightweigh and aero bike I would pickup a lightweight model over full on aero any days.
Aero means crap to most of us ... the usual riders that won't ever do 40 km\h average speed rides ;) Aero is just a thing to make you spend money. I will stay with my SL6 rim brake with 6.5 kg, and guess what it's a STOCK one ;)
but I would bet you if you had available a nice set of rim brake 50 mm carbon wheels (1300 g), you would ride these over an aluminum box section wheelset. You would ride these wheelset just for the aesthetics only. By the way, the aero carbon wheelset is a lot faster - measured in minutes (i.e. not seconds) over a 1 hour steady state tempo solo ride on the flats and they are scary fast on a downhill descents - I am talking 5-10 kph faster and likely get you over 90 kph on a straight 10 % grade (but obviously dependent on your body position and road surface). And you can get a pair of these for $1300 US - Winspace or Elite Drive. Also, there are absolutely no differences between these wheelsets and the brand name ones that are $3K and above - i.e. Zipp and Enve. Trust me - I have both sets. So pair your SL6 rim brake bike with some 50 mm Winspace or Elite Drive wheels and you will have one of the fastest bikes ever made.
Ah yes, the usual "aero doesn't matter for average rider but lightweight does" mantra of a regular, brainwashed by outdated marketing, boomer.
@@dainiusvysniauskas2049bUt RiM bRaKeS!
@@stephenchu1115 humm a pair of wheels with 50mm depth with 1300 grams ?? It would be a nice one, but i won't change my mavic r-sys slr with 1240 grams, won't change them for nothing, this one hell of pair of wheels. The point here is that 90% of us dont need a aero fancy new bike, it's just pure markting.
As an 85+kg rider, I couldn't care less about weight outside of when I need to go up the stairs.
How do you true those Synchros wheels? 🤷🏻♂️
It's a one piece design like your car rims, the whole point is that you don't need to true it.
@@horsepastedelish 🤔 hmmm I would like to see long term reviews
I had Spinergy X 10 years ago and also was supposed to never be trued....
If they really wanted that VAM to be light they could have taken another 100g off it by putting on Dura Ace. It would have looked better too
pls just set bike weight into context to system weight and tell me more about the 1.5% less weight is importnt or not , as long you are not in the average tour the france hill climber range of weight and performance weight is like yea nice to have but only impact is in your head
Theyneed more sales now so they will find a way to change something again and go back to lightweight again. You cna see riders swapping this and that so save weight so weight was always a factor and they knew it... Marking oushed something else for a while ... So marking is looking fir rhe next pitch as we speak
their next pitch will probably be we will need one wheel, why use two for cycling, more aero and lightweight!
LOL - ask Vingegaard what he thinks. 😅
I want a JUST RIDE BIKES hat.
UCI are to blame ten to fifteen years ago bike manufacturers were producing road bikes that weighed around 9 to 10.5 llbs.A good light weight road bike about the same time weighed 10llbs 11 llbs.The UCI said there were concerns about safety at the time not taking into consideration all the safety checks that the manufacturers put in place at the time .A german manufacture Tune produced a bike that weighed 7.5 llbs.If you are riding a 15 llb bike over mountains you will go slower then a bike weighing 10llbs it's the law of physics.
The only reason why weight is becoming more of a factor is because of ego recreationalists. Also the same reason prices are so high. People are not buying bikes to keep themselves in shape they need the bike to show on social media, to improve their times on strava, … and these people are almost beginners who are riding for less than a year but need the lightest and the most expensive bike just for status.
Weight is ALWAYS more important (specially when you live in the Alps)
There is one rule.. if you don't race UCI.. the bike must weigh less than 6.8 kg with pedals..
People pay + 2,000 EUR for bikes that weigh + 8 kg without pedals???
Seemed every decade aero vs weight was the issue. One decade weight, the other aero..until UCI put the 6.8 kg minimum in place. Before disc brakes pretty much all bikes (didn't even have to be all carbon as Cannondale proved) could be this light as long as you were willing to lighten your wallet at the same time.
Once disc brakes were shoved down everyone's throat 6.8 kg became tougher - so it was "all aero, all the time" especially as those mostly-marketing claims were far harder to prove.
So it's still an "aero" decade, probably until when/if UCI caves in to industry pressure and lowers the weight limit enough for people to believe a superlight bike is (again) worth it?
I hope they don't as bikes that have their warranty voided if you sit on the toptube have no business being sold to "Joe or Jill Crankarm" to ride around on Sundays. Who needs a bicycle that can only be enjoyed if there's a follow-car behind you with a spare one on the roof unless you're racing LeTour?
Great video, David. I feel the pure climbing and pure aero bikes are going to be limited in sales to those in two categories: 1) specialist who focuses on only one & 2) those who can afford to keep a large stable of road bikes and pick the ideal bike for the day's route. Personally, I'm leaning towards an all rounder (SL7, Melee or o2 VAM) with two wheelsets to make that one bike more optimum for the route of the day.
Allrounder is the way !
@@littlevo9 there is no such thing as all rounder, just take a narrow bar and tuck in, and there you have it, your CdA just improved by 20%
Few things beats the feeling of lifting a light bike.
I get David money aside but these bikes are still silly money again. Give me your Cannondale any day I bought a Giant TCR rim brake the other day 7.6kg for a grand made me happy and affordable.
How can you say that bike weight is only a small part of system weight but then ignore that same argument for aero? Rider position makes the biggest impact to aerodynamics and is practically free. Same can't be said for weight.
The number of time the word earo is mentioned in relation with the actual aero gain in real life situations is ridiculous :)
They made them really heavy so that they can slowly make them lighter again!😆
Nothing new. My 2015 model bike(designed in 2014 I think) is the climbing version of the complete aero model. So it's got aero features dropped seat stays BB brake etc, and some aero shaped tubes at the front. And designed to be more compliant and comfortable for longer rides. Makes for a good bike.
I'm not convinced on the strength and longevity or safety of Making disc bikes as light as they can be. You want light and responsiveness go rim anytime.
So aero is no longer the fastest (best) ? Or is the Industry trying to create another trend (aero, disc, electronic...) to boost sales?
well we always knew aero and lightweight was the fastest, that not new . They were just not able to combine both.
Just another PR/Marketing sales pitch from the bullshitters to try to grab your money. Ride your bike, have fun with it and ignore them.
1kg on an 8% climb is 3watts? Really? I don't believe that. I've got a steel bike which is about 1.5kg heavier than my carbon bike but you can feel the difference climbing. Pretty sure it's more than 5 watts.
curious as to why you're quibbling over the total weight of the new orbea v. something like specialized aethos. while very true that aethos is lighter overall, the orbea is a uci-approved race bike that's currently being raced in the women's pro peloton.
i would guess that orbea is trying to serve all masters, here. nothing drives bike sales like stage or tour wins, as evidenced by all the brands updating their landing page with the latest boast of how great their hardware is. canyon, specialized, cervelo and bmc all have the TDF front and center on their homepages.
It's more of a comment about why bikes aren't getting lighter when it's been shown to be possible and when I company bills its new bikes as the lightest it can make, and it's not especially light, that's all
@@davidarthur thanks for your reply. do you think uci certification plays into it at all? or does it come down to the materials engineering of the respective brands?
additionally, i'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the limits of modern carbon layups. i've anecdotally heard of a lot of cracked s-works aethos frames locally, and orbea's claims of have .5mm thick tubing in places on the new orca make me a tad squeamish. is there a point where lighter is too light?
If bikes are £2,000+ why not both?
I'm in the weight savings camp and if not waiting for new Canyon Grail specs to launch so I can finally get off the road here in Los Angeles. I'd be taking a very hard look at the new Factor.
Aeros great for a pro peloton traveling at 50kph but for everything else I'd pick lightweight especially wheels and tyres. I mean 30mm tyres?! Come off it! 😂
I think that a key motivation is that bike brands can now get disc bikes down around the UCI limit.
They don’t sell rim brake bikes any longer as the braking performance across the full range of possible conditions is better with disc bikes, and there could be risk of lawsuits if a rim brake carbon clincher fails or if a wheel gets greasy and a rider can’t stop in time.
But this means that many old-schoolers have no interest in buying a new bike. They complain (correctly) that prices are higher, maintenance is more complex, and disc bikes are heavy. The new, lightweight disc bikes nullify that third argument. Now it’s just down to price and maintenance. Well, if you can afford a new, top bike, you can afford the occasional service at a shop, so now we’re down to just one issue: money. Oh well.
Btw, pad replacement on a disc bike is easy for the home mechanic. It’s only bleeding and opening the hydraulics that need special tools, and this is a rare event. I haven’t found Shimano disc brakes to be a maintenance issue whatsoever.
Anyway, my theory is that the new lightweights help eliminate a disc criticism. Do others agree?
What about the lawsuits from the new riders that they will complain that new disc brakes are too powerful for a bike system with narrow tires like road bikes? what about lawsuits for overall wheel and frame fatique failures over time due to the disc brake power? How many of these companies have trully tested their frames, wheels, spokes, hubs, against a simulated time over the lifetime of the bikes? Most will just simulate 1-2 years of average time, as per warranty legal requirements...good luck if you are the user.
Too powerful? That’s not a thing. In the dry, you can lock up the wheel with both disc and rim brakes. The difference is that discs modulate better and perform better over a wider range of conditions.
Regarding underdesigned bikes, that could happen on any component. The spokes and wheels aren’t an issue. The brake mount on the front fork is the one, new stress point, but discs have been around for years now, and we haven’t seen reports of those failures. It’s handlebars that tend to fail.
In fact, I know a guy who’s handlebars failed just this year in a gravel race. Going fast downhill, he hit a bump, and the thing snapped at the hole for cable routing, (I saw it at the local bike shop.) He was all bloody, got back on the bike, and limped home to finish second. There have been lots of high profile handlebar failures, like van der Poel’s Canyon. Not so many snapped forks.
Next time you’re thinking of spending a lot of cash on shaving a few hundred grams here and there think about the amount of water you just drank or what you’ve eaten in the past 12 hours. Air resistance is exponential, and if your bike is already max aero think about the surface area of your body compared to your bike. If speed is the goal your body position and the clothes you wear are probably the most important things to prioritize.
Wrong. Added weight is just dead weight. The handling of a bike costs energy which you have to provide somehow. There is no way talking around that.
@@rosomak8244I don’t disagree with what you said but also know the physics is complicated. As an example recently we realized the energy lost in vertical translation of the bike with skinny high pressure tires, wider more compliant tires just roll faster (with an aero penalty beginning at some width) Pogacar had 31.3 mm measured tires for a reason. A lot of that energy is turned into vibration in the body which turns into heat in the muscles at micro scales and leads to slightly greater fatigue. I thought the trend was toward seeing the bike and rider as a system as opposed to optimizing individual elements.
Nothing about orbea new rear triangle no drops stays!!! Incredible amazing where did they get that idea from!!! All marketing gimmicks to sell bikes
Light weight for enjoying a ride, aero for racing or if you live somewhere flat
neither, just ride your bike and have fun, dont fall for this marketing bullshit
It's all marketing B's .I wish someone would actually put some of these claims to the test and just sue these manufacturers
C’est purement marketing,parceque l’aérodynamique n’est pas saisissable immédiatement par l’utilisateur il pense que celà n’existe pas tandis que le poids lui est immédiatement vérifiable.Le problème est que depuis beaucoup d’études on démontrer qu’un kilo d’écart n’apportait pratiquement rien en montée.
Et comment justifier l’achat de ces vélo légers? Un Specialized sl7 a un cadre qui fait 880gr en taille L ,là 750gr sûrement dans une petite taille ,pensez-vous réellement que 130gr vont changer quoi que ce soit? Est-ce que ces vélos conserveront la même rigidité ou deviendront des chewing-gums pour les personnes de plus de 80kg?
J’adore mon sl7 il fait 7.3kg avec les portes bidon ,les pedales à capteur et le support garmin ,si vous ne pouvez grimper avec cette machine alors le problème vient surtout de vous.
Ce nouveau Orbea est moche comparé à celui qu’il remplace !
Aethos frame is the lightest but also the most fragile. Never going to buy a specialized bike, three friends of mine had broken frames, and S-Works Shiv, two Venge and a Aethos. Expensive af and specialized only give you a discount as a warranty
yeah, i've anecdotally heard of 2-3 snapped aethos framesets, and not all due to crashes. pencil-thin, ultralight carbon is great until it isn't. i'm not a materials engineer, but i would guess that the lightweight, rigid tubing is overall more susceptible to fracturing under load.
i thought i wanted an aethos, but the number of snapped frames i've come across from a relatively small pool of riders gives me quite a pause.
@@maximilian3004 I agree with you, the aethos and one of the two venge I mentioned in my comment got fractured by a front derailleur and the venge by a rear derailleur. The shiv and the other venge snapped in half due to a crash, not that hard tho. But yeah we can get an idea from Fabio Jaboksen’s crash in tdf with his SL7 snapped in half, and then deleting the photo of the bike hours later from his instagram.