Ok I've got a tech. Your zombie of falling double Heartbound loop. 0.5 second triggers, for 700 damage taken per minion death. Assuming a minimum of 528 damage for triggering the loop, your flask nets 15% of that leeched back as life. that's ~79 damage leeched back per hit. In order to keep the leech constant, the leech instance must last at least as long as the CWDT from zombies triggering. At 0.5 seconds, that means your leech instances must be at least 1% of your life pool, so that it lasts 0.5 seconds. That means this will give you permanent leech uptime up to 7900 Life. Higher if you have flask effect or take more than minimum physical damage from the hits. Equip tainted pact as well and you have permanent chaos DoTs as heals. With Divine flesh you can use RF or Annihilation's approach to easily outpace the HBLoop damage. You can now use poisons of any duration to get insano healing. Edit: I do realize this kills the Herald of Thunder concept since it burns both ring slots, but maybe useful for another build down the line. I'm working on one of my own now. Edit 2: Just tested it out. Permanent leech uptime.
quality HB will go up to 840 damage. Also unless I am missing something 15% of 700 is 105 not 79. (126 if 840) With that you could have up to 12600 Life.
@@death_by_tophats8870 I'm doing 15% of the minimum 528 to trigger CWDT in order to allow error for armor on gear. I'm just showing that so long as you can hit minimum damage taken for trigger, it still gives you a large life pool that you can use. That's because the higher the life pool the shorter the leech duration will be, so I wanted to point out that life pool total won't be an issue with the setup. With Qual HB, and no armor at all, your numbers are spot on.
I think the Wum's Molt was the thing that got you there. The duration of a life leech instance is defined by the maximum recovery per life leech, divided by the default leech rate of 2% of maximum life per second. By default, the maximum amount of life leeched per instance is 10% of a character's maximum Life, resulting in a maximum duration of 5 seconds. The Wurms you have equipped has 922% "increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" which increases the default 2% of maximum life that can be recovered as life per second from a single instance to 20.44% per second (the normal 100% + increase of 922%). Here comes the cap of "Maximum total Life Recovery per second from Leech" into play which is 20% and caps the 20.44 to 20%. This calue of 20% in turn reduces the maximum leech duration you can have to about 0.5 seconds, if you deal a hit that makes you leech 10% of your maximum life. (Duration of leech = max total recovery from leech / total Recovery per second from leech = 10% / 20% per second = 0.5 seconds) For a leech that reaches the cap of 10% of your maximum life it would need to leech about 167 damage. Using the 1% leech of Highwayman you would need to deal a hit of 16'700 damage to reach the leech cap. But the HoT does not hit hard enough, so the leech ends sooner than the 0.5 seconds. If you deal 1k damage with a singular hit of HoT the total leech would be 1% of that so 10 hp these would then recover over (10hp are roughly 0.6% of 1667 total hp --> 0.6%/200% per s=0.03 s). As a server tick is roughly 0.033 s this leech is even less than a single tick and thus either instant or discarded (wiki does not specify). The same goes for your flask and damage taken combo. The ring does 250 damage reduced to 62.5 after 75% lightning resistance. The Flask (before inc. effect) makes you leech 15% of that damage back as life. Which would end up in 9.375hp leeched back to you per hit you receive from the ring which is nearly the same duration as the leech instance from the HoT. Since your recovery does not come from leech but from the reversed poison on yourself you should maximize leech duration. This can be done by increasing the damage of the hit that causes the leech or by reducing the recovery per second from leech (the opposite of Wurm's Molt).
7 minutes in and this reminds me of trying to brew MTG decks and just including far far too many intriguing synergies to the detriment of consistency, focus & card quality. I love it. Never change Woolfio, never change.
TL;DR Warning - Wurms Molt Bad, Slayer Good! So I figured out the issue with this: It's Wurm's Molt. The mod it gives you increases your default leech rate per-instance from 2% to 12%-22% depending on roll. The amount of life leeched is the same, but it's granted MUCH faster, allowing you to cap leech very easily when you've got high damage (and makes it awesome for instant leech and flask leech effect). Unfortunately for Tainted Pact though, this makes it finish a leech instance that much faster as well. So if normally you get 10% of your life leeched it'll take 5 seconds to recover (at the 2% per second base rate). With Wurms molt, a maxed leech instance finishes in to 0.45-0.83 seconds. From the wiki: "50% increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech increases the default 2% of maximum life that can be recovered as life *per second* from a single instance to 3%." 3% per second on a leech that's equal to 1% of your life means you'll finish that leech instance in 0.33 seconds. The higher increased total recovery is, the shorter your leech instances. Really with this build, leech can take forever and be tiny for all we care, as your life return comes from the self poison, so Wurm's molt is not necessary and ultimately detrimental. The best mods to target are raw leech amount and "Maximum Recovery Per Life Leech" which will let you hit the 10% of life per leech instance easier, which lets you get a longer leech. With 100% increased, an instance can be up to 20% of your life pool, and will take 10 seconds to apply fully to your life. It seem the only source of this mod is Slayer's Brutal Fervor. (Offering of the serpent also has 50% reduced but that hurts our cause of long duration leech). I can't seem to find any "Reduced Total Recovery Per second" mods, which would also help a lot. Relying on the damage enemies do with the flask mod is unfortunately not reliable. If something hits you for 10% of your life, and 15% is leeched, the final amount is 1.5% of your life and at a rate of 2% per second will be resolved in 0.75 seconds. Lowest roll wurm's molt makes that 0.25 seconds.Forbidden' Rite's 40%, applied with -60% res, is 64% of life, 15% of that is 9.6% of life, which by default will take 4.8 seconds. With a maxxed Wurm's molt, it's finished in 0.8 seconds. I'd say if you can survive constant casting of Forbidden Rite, you can have permanent uptime on leech from damage taken from the flask, and all chaos DoT will heal you pretty much permanently since your leech duration will be several seconds long while your poison instances are much shorter than that. As another user had said, Recoup might be good for making that a possibility. I've been meaning to work this issue for a while, and I'll do some testing to confirm the exact wording of the verbiage on Wurm's. will post another comment in a few hours with details.
omg the great wall of China don't have energy to read all, but I figure wurm's and maybe even that Highway ring may be bad to use. Will try some changes tomorrow.
@@Darkblitz9the mod on Wurm's Molt does not affect the leech duration, only the recovery you gain from the leech, which is kinda irrelevant on this build. It isn't explained on the item page, but the Leech wiki page explains that the only way to affect leech duration is the size of the instance. So, yes Slayer would allow much longer leech instances (if you can fill them).
@@XxZarionxX If Wurm's didn't affect the duration then there should be no way that his leech was dropping before his poisons but it happened multiple times. The leech wiki does not say that the only way to affect the duration is by changing the size. Changing how much leech is applied per second also affects that, and that's what Wurms' does. The Wiki only says that there is no direct "leech instance duration" modifier, and that if you want to adjust leech duration, you need to consider and control several factors. As well, I've got a functioning method for permanent leech uptime and if I put on Wurms it breaks, so that's evidence that it does affect it.
@@Darkblitz9 "No stat currently exists to modify the base rate of a leech instance" & "Modifiers to total Recovery per second from Life Leech amplify recovery from leech, not the base rate of the leech instance. Multiplying recovery does not 'empty' a leech instance faster.[7]" The only things mentioned that affect actual duration are Maximum total recovery per Life Leech and Instant leech. If what you're saying is true, the Wiki is wrong. Which is possible I suppose, but the source for the second statement is a Reddit post by Mark_GGG
Tainted Pact is one of my favorite items, but getting the leech right is pretty difficult. There used to be Divergent Life Leech that would increase effective leech duration, but that was removed with transfigured gems. The main two ways are now Slayer's Brutal Fervor and Mahuxotl's Machination. Mahuxotl's, along with being a defensive powerhouse, gives overleech through Immortal Ambition keystone AND has the unique ability of severely lowering the maximum energy shield leech per second, down to something like 5% of ES per second. That very low cap makes it very easy to cap your leech and not one shot yourself with your own poisons due to leech falling off. I am using it in my own Tainted Pact poison flicker strike character.
-forbidden rite's transfigured version costs life by default -there is a ring craft that "shock nearby enemies on focus", to trigger HoT without a skill -immortal ambition should work with tainted pact, as it modifies life leech to apply to es (instead of getting energy leech as one could assume) => BUT a build with a lot of regen is great with petrified blood/progenesis
I was aware of focus ring, but it has long cooldown and very very small aoe and wasn't sure it would count as me shocking for HoT to start working. Will test immortal ambition but I suspect it won't work as well as petrified blood.
i love your dedication i'm also constantly looking for offmeta builds sadly even if the mechanics for poison hot work as you want i doubt that it can compete in any way when the standard lightning version can barely clear t16 with moderate investment also for lifebased selfdmg consider recoup witch has 50% in 2 clusters and (quite expensive) nine lives/stasis prison
I took a break from this game for a few years and I just can't make my own builds any more lol. So much has changed, and so much I've forgotten. The 10 page article about leech sums it up for me .
Hint, there is a tech using Energy From Within you can get negative life modifiers. I made a character that has 400 ish life at lv90 just for the Tainted Pact. I feel your pain bro, exactly like me every single league trying off-meta builds.
Leech won't be a problem in this case but as greedy as me I want the Corrupted Soul for sure and it won't work with energy shield. So my strat ended up with converting as much as damage taken to fire, use The Formless Flame and rings with -Fire Damage taken from Hits + Primal Aegis. With some max res, meaning the couple hundreds of -Fire Damage taken from Hits is equivalent to a few thousands of EHP. You are then immune to DoT because of Tainted Pact and you are immune to hit that does not one-shot you. I'm also running on CWDT loop to sustain life leech. It's a fun project that you no longer rely on life/ES/mana as resources to take damage. But the build is a hell to play with because so many things needed to start.
ok, I skimmed through the video so maybe I missed it however I do not think so. The main problem here is the belt. The belt is playing AGAINST what you want to do. Normally an instance leeches for 2% of your life. How long it depends on the ammount of damage that is leeched (like 1% of the damage dealt for example). So, duration is: d = leeching_dmg / (0.02 * max life). Max recovery from life leech (on the belt) increses that 0.02 which in turn reduces the duration. EDIT: Actually, the wiki tells that I am partially wrong: "Modifiers to total Recovery per second from Life Leech amplify recovery from leech, not the base rate of the leech instance. Multiplying recovery does not 'empty' a leech instance faster." So, TLDR: the belt is just useless, not detrimental
If i'm not mistaken the only thing that increases leech duration calculation is "increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech" from slayer, not sure if this line exist in another source. As far as i know there is no way of lowering the 2% rate, and each leech instance can "store" 10% of our hp, so a full leech instance takes 5s to empty. Increasing the maximum ammount a leech instance can "store", so slayer can go from 10% to 20%, and a full instance will last 10s (2% being used per second). In this setup the limiting factor though is the amount of damage being taken (as Wolfio mentioned in the video this relative to max life, the more max life you have the more damage you''l need to take, since the leech instance is spent on a 2% of you max life rate and the maximum stored is also based on % of max life). The other avenue is flask effect. With the flask leech damage taken mod you leech 15% of damage taken, which means that to fill a leech instance, that 15% would need to be equal to 10% of your hp, resulting in having to take 2 thirds of your life in order to get a full duration leech (or, to get a roughly 1.25 s, which would be better in this setup, about 16.66..% of your HP, which is still a lot) . Increasing flask effect scales the 15% number, so it's easier to get more leech pool (remembering more pool means it takes more time to spend it at the 2% rate).
@@Suppaichuthat is only if you reach the cap. 5s is way more than necessary for this build. Wolfio is far from the cap. Anyway, increasing the amount of damage leeched per instance or reducing your life pool.
Wurms molt does not help in increasing the base leech duration, since maximum recovery works to increase the maximum amount of time it stays leeching for big hits (the calculation provided by the wiki is maximum recovery [10% base default] / 2%). In summary you need a bigger leech instance and everything (hopefully) will be fine, since it will be a longer leech
not sure if it still works but there used to be a trick with hydrosphere where if you had two on seperate cwdt at say level 1 and level 2 they overwrite each other and allow a new hit each time which bypasses the hit limit hydro usually has, this would possibly allow you to maintain leech in a zero mob environment providing your flasks stay up
DoT's get clipped off if their duration is too short. I don't remember what the minimum is, but it's a thing. I *think* it's 0.10 seconds or lower gets clipped and doesn't get applied.
Afaik this was changed a few leagues ago because the 90% reduced ignite duration AN mod made some mobs completely immune. Technically they probably still need to last at least one server tick, but that's way shorter than 0.1 seconds.
If im not wrong, You should turn on RF to deal constant dmg to You and take "Divine Flesh" keystone so the burning will be turn also to chaos dmg and then the flask enchant will be leeching and healing You all the time 😊
"more duration of ailments on you" will ruin the balance though edit: it also doesn't work, leathe shade requires you to take damage, if tainted pact is up you won't take damage from chaos.
Similar HoT idea I have had for years but I dont think there is any way to attain it - if you make HoT last one tick or so and can shock enemies every 1 or 2 ticks you can potentially have your HoT hit every one or two ticks, bypassing normal hit rate restrictions. I don't think there are enough sources of reduced duration to make it work but thought I'd mention it in case someone can find them
If I understand correctly, you are trying to proc HoT every tick by shocking the enemy every tick? I doubt it will work because HoT is a buf and procing new HoT won't immediately trigger HoT. I'm not 100% sure tho.
@@Inficate-bd3qu if HoT shoots a bolt the instant you gain the buff it might work. if you need to wait for the 'frequency' to get the first hit then it wouldn't. i don't know which is true
No you misunderstand me. Not trying to shock every tick, HoT cannot even shock. I am poisoning every hit and making poison expire before next hit. Also shock has minimum of 200 ms duration, anything below that will not even apply on enemies. If you are confused, the unique ring triggers herald's bolts for all HoT duration if I shock enemy, instead of killing enemy, that is why I have cast when damage taken linked to spell that shocks.
I've heard there are similar issues with eternal youth keystone when used with predictive mode instead of lockstep. game start to incorrectly calculate when dmg is taken and not
Did you try interaction with Forbiddent Taste Flask on top, it could give you, if you constantly leech, extra recovery, but to have maximum efficiency, you need low chaos resistance.
@@Woolfio I remember it used to count at least, because there used to be some way of restoring 2% mana or something when you shocked enemies and I remember it was basically instant mana restore for necromancers due to that synergy. Few years ago now I think
Could it be that the poison duration on enemies and you is somehow different? Because you were most definitely getting way more than one stack of poison, which, by all means should be impossible.
It was poison proliferation and CWDT crackling lance/forbidden rite. I remember poison proliferation was causing some issues in the past with tainted pact idea, it may be resetting poison duration, although not sure.
No, it was only problem for ignites, they promised to changed that and I think they did, but I don't remember if they actually changed that for ignites.
If you're wanting to combine tons of mechanics, try using Herald of Thunder to proc poison and kill enemies, Icefang Orbit to shatter poisoned enemies, and Herald of Ice for AoE. Or try making Herald of Ice proc itself by the poison damage done, making cascades :P
Er... why? Just freeze them with herald of ice. Already done that last league, was great. Don't see reason to add extra step and make it more convoluted if it doesn't change end result.
I see a few possible issues with the build concept. 1) Several of your poison duration modifiers are "enemy poison duration" which might not be applying to the reflected poisons and you wind up taking longer poisons than intended. 2) Leech duration is tied to damage dealt. it caps at 2% of your maximum health per second but since you just want a .15 second duration you'd still need to leech around .3% of your max life which is ~4x more than you are currently leeching. This could be wrong, nobody really understands leech but I've tinkered with leech mechanics very heavily in the past and I think you'd sold duration by leeching more. 3) look into perma-ward in a small amount to "take the damage" but not lose hp. Not sure if it'd be functional but might be a solution to killing yourself with the HoT reflects
Not sure which modifier you are talking about, but having shorter poison duration on me should not be an issue, as long as it is shorter than leech duration. Recoup is fixed to 4 sec (3sec with mastery), and it does not matter how much damage you do. That flask is working with Herald, otherwise I would always instantly die because nothing else does damage to me. It just leech duration was too short because I was doing too little damage and that leech on flask was not providing enough. Either increase single hit damage taken or increase flask effect to boost leech %.
What about soul tether, or replica soul tether(cant remember), instead of petrified blood? I made a self poison flicker strike jugg 2 leagues ago. It works for me.
Time to roll baited pact :) In all seriousnes though, the attempt is good, but it usually is better to use tainted pact as an aide, rolling tainted pact/golden rule/apep's slumber/doppelguise/csoul/maw of conquest (for swapping later)/ wurms and cyclone+cwc+forbidden rite with HoA scaling from clusters You get insane sustain and nice damage, even on low budget its like 7m dot dps (with buffs)
I don't know if it's still relevant, but I'll just throw the following two sentences into the room. 15% of Damage Taken from Hits is Leeched as Life during Flask Effect life leech effects are not removed when unreserved life is filled I think you die because leech ends and you only get dot damage, which does not trigger the leech of the flask, since it is only triggered by hit damage. You would probably have to work with "damage taken recoup as life" because that doesn't end when your health is full.
I have petrified blood to have "overleech". Leech does not end unless its duration runs out. Recoup is never going to be enough for this strategy because I would need to heal back instantly hundreds of thousands of life. Bigger poison means I would need more life sustain.
@@Woolfio nice aproach anyway, also HoT should deal more damage to reach full length of the leech imho. Lighting skill have low end damage so it could happen that you hit twice with too low dmg to sustain leech and chaos heal inversion.
Woofio thank you for being true build experimenter. This kind of stuff is inspiring
You the man Woolfie. You always come up with some weird and beautiful ideas.
Thx for all the work man.
I love the way you edit the videos to show your thought process in trying these off meta mechanics. Subscribed ❤
Yeah that is my typical stream, but until now haven't really done video, usually it takes hours to come up with something and plan it.
Ok I've got a tech. Your zombie of falling double Heartbound loop. 0.5 second triggers, for 700 damage taken per minion death. Assuming a minimum of 528 damage for triggering the loop, your flask nets 15% of that leeched back as life. that's ~79 damage leeched back per hit. In order to keep the leech constant, the leech instance must last at least as long as the CWDT from zombies triggering. At 0.5 seconds, that means your leech instances must be at least 1% of your life pool, so that it lasts 0.5 seconds. That means this will give you permanent leech uptime up to 7900 Life. Higher if you have flask effect or take more than minimum physical damage from the hits. Equip tainted pact as well and you have permanent chaos DoTs as heals. With Divine flesh you can use RF or Annihilation's approach to easily outpace the HBLoop damage. You can now use poisons of any duration to get insano healing.
Edit: I do realize this kills the Herald of Thunder concept since it burns both ring slots, but maybe useful for another build down the line. I'm working on one of my own now.
Edit 2: Just tested it out. Permanent leech uptime.
quality HB will go up to 840 damage. Also unless I am missing something 15% of 700 is 105 not 79. (126 if 840) With that you could have up to 12600 Life.
@@death_by_tophats8870 I'm doing 15% of the minimum 528 to trigger CWDT in order to allow error for armor on gear. I'm just showing that so long as you can hit minimum damage taken for trigger, it still gives you a large life pool that you can use. That's because the higher the life pool the shorter the leech duration will be, so I wanted to point out that life pool total won't be an issue with the setup. With Qual HB, and no armor at all, your numbers are spot on.
@@Darkblitz9 Ok gotcha
I think the Wum's Molt was the thing that got you there.
The duration of a life leech instance is defined by the maximum recovery per life leech, divided by the default leech rate of 2% of maximum life per second. By default, the maximum amount of life leeched per instance is 10% of a character's maximum Life, resulting in a maximum duration of 5 seconds.
The Wurms you have equipped has 922% "increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" which increases the default 2% of maximum life that can be recovered as life per second from a single instance to 20.44% per second (the normal 100% + increase of 922%). Here comes the cap of "Maximum total Life Recovery per second from Leech" into play which is 20% and caps the 20.44 to 20%.
This calue of 20% in turn reduces the maximum leech duration you can have to about 0.5 seconds, if you deal a hit that makes you leech 10% of your maximum life. (Duration of leech = max total recovery from leech / total Recovery per second from leech = 10% / 20% per second = 0.5 seconds)
For a leech that reaches the cap of 10% of your maximum life it would need to leech about 167 damage. Using the 1% leech of Highwayman you would need to deal a hit of 16'700 damage to reach the leech cap. But the HoT does not hit hard enough, so the leech ends sooner than the 0.5 seconds. If you deal 1k damage with a singular hit of HoT the total leech would be 1% of that so 10 hp these would then recover over (10hp are roughly 0.6% of 1667 total hp --> 0.6%/200% per s=0.03 s). As a server tick is roughly 0.033 s this leech is even less than a single tick and thus either instant or discarded (wiki does not specify).
The same goes for your flask and damage taken combo. The ring does 250 damage reduced to 62.5 after 75% lightning resistance. The Flask (before inc. effect) makes you leech 15% of that damage back as life. Which would end up in 9.375hp leeched back to you per hit you receive from the ring which is nearly the same duration as the leech instance from the HoT.
Since your recovery does not come from leech but from the reversed poison on yourself you should maximize leech duration. This can be done by increasing the damage of the hit that causes the leech or by reducing the recovery per second from leech (the opposite of Wurm's Molt).
7 minutes in and this reminds me of trying to brew MTG decks and just including far far too many intriguing synergies to the detriment of consistency, focus & card quality.
I love it.
Never change Woolfio, never change.
TL;DR Warning - Wurms Molt Bad, Slayer Good!
So I figured out the issue with this: It's Wurm's Molt. The mod it gives you increases your default leech rate per-instance from 2% to 12%-22% depending on roll. The amount of life leeched is the same, but it's granted MUCH faster, allowing you to cap leech very easily when you've got high damage (and makes it awesome for instant leech and flask leech effect).
Unfortunately for Tainted Pact though, this makes it finish a leech instance that much faster as well. So if normally you get 10% of your life leeched it'll take 5 seconds to recover (at the 2% per second base rate). With Wurms molt, a maxed leech instance finishes in to 0.45-0.83 seconds.
From the wiki: "50% increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech increases the default 2% of maximum life that can be recovered as life *per second* from a single instance to 3%." 3% per second on a leech that's equal to 1% of your life means you'll finish that leech instance in 0.33 seconds.
The higher increased total recovery is, the shorter your leech instances. Really with this build, leech can take forever and be tiny for all we care, as your life return comes from the self poison, so Wurm's molt is not necessary and ultimately detrimental.
The best mods to target are raw leech amount and "Maximum Recovery Per Life Leech" which will let you hit the 10% of life per leech instance easier, which lets you get a longer leech. With 100% increased, an instance can be up to 20% of your life pool, and will take 10 seconds to apply fully to your life. It seem the only source of this mod is Slayer's Brutal Fervor. (Offering of the serpent also has 50% reduced but that hurts our cause of long duration leech). I can't seem to find any "Reduced Total Recovery Per second" mods, which would also help a lot.
Relying on the damage enemies do with the flask mod is unfortunately not reliable. If something hits you for 10% of your life, and 15% is leeched, the final amount is 1.5% of your life and at a rate of 2% per second will be resolved in 0.75 seconds. Lowest roll wurm's molt makes that 0.25 seconds.Forbidden' Rite's 40%, applied with -60% res, is 64% of life, 15% of that is 9.6% of life, which by default will take 4.8 seconds. With a maxxed Wurm's molt, it's finished in 0.8 seconds. I'd say if you can survive constant casting of Forbidden Rite, you can have permanent uptime on leech from damage taken from the flask, and all chaos DoT will heal you pretty much permanently since your leech duration will be several seconds long while your poison instances are much shorter than that. As another user had said, Recoup might be good for making that a possibility.
I've been meaning to work this issue for a while, and I'll do some testing to confirm the exact wording of the verbiage on Wurm's. will post another comment in a few hours with details.
omg the great wall of China
don't have energy to read all, but I figure wurm's and maybe even that Highway ring may be bad to use. Will try some changes tomorrow.
@@Woolfio haha sorry. Also I mentioned slayer but that seems to only work if you have Mageblood. Otherwise: Pathfinder/Ascendant for flask charges
@@Darkblitz9the mod on Wurm's Molt does not affect the leech duration, only the recovery you gain from the leech, which is kinda irrelevant on this build. It isn't explained on the item page, but the Leech wiki page explains that the only way to affect leech duration is the size of the instance.
So, yes Slayer would allow much longer leech instances (if you can fill them).
@@XxZarionxX If Wurm's didn't affect the duration then there should be no way that his leech was dropping before his poisons but it happened multiple times.
The leech wiki does not say that the only way to affect the duration is by changing the size. Changing how much leech is applied per second also affects that, and that's what Wurms' does. The Wiki only says that there is no direct "leech instance duration" modifier, and that if you want to adjust leech duration, you need to consider and control several factors.
As well, I've got a functioning method for permanent leech uptime and if I put on Wurms it breaks, so that's evidence that it does affect it.
@@Darkblitz9 "No stat currently exists to modify the base rate of a leech instance"
&
"Modifiers to total Recovery per second from Life Leech amplify recovery from leech, not the base rate of the leech instance. Multiplying recovery does not 'empty' a leech instance faster.[7]"
The only things mentioned that affect actual duration are Maximum total recovery per Life Leech and Instant leech.
If what you're saying is true, the Wiki is wrong. Which is possible I suppose, but the source for the second statement is a Reddit post by Mark_GGG
This was so cool. I love when you do content like this.
This... this is why im a subscriber. Love these kinda builds/concepts.. Big fan of your ideas and methods. Legend
I really enjoy this kind of video. Thanks for sharing.
Tainted Pact is one of my favorite items, but getting the leech right is pretty difficult. There used to be Divergent Life Leech that would increase effective leech duration, but that was removed with transfigured gems. The main two ways are now Slayer's Brutal Fervor and Mahuxotl's Machination.
Mahuxotl's, along with being a defensive powerhouse, gives overleech through Immortal Ambition keystone AND has the unique ability of severely lowering the maximum energy shield leech per second, down to something like 5% of ES per second. That very low cap makes it very easy to cap your leech and not one shot yourself with your own poisons due to leech falling off. I am using it in my own Tainted Pact poison flicker strike character.
-forbidden rite's transfigured version costs life by default
-there is a ring craft that "shock nearby enemies on focus", to trigger HoT without a skill
-immortal ambition should work with tainted pact, as it modifies life leech to apply to es (instead of getting energy leech as one could assume) => BUT a build with a lot of regen is great with petrified blood/progenesis
Or use flask to shock nearby enemies.
I was aware of focus ring, but it has long cooldown and very very small aoe and wasn't sure it would count as me shocking for HoT to start working.
Will test immortal ambition but I suspect it won't work as well as petrified blood.
i love your dedication i'm also constantly looking for offmeta builds
sadly even if the mechanics for poison hot work as you want i doubt that it can compete in any way when the standard lightning version can barely clear t16 with moderate investment
also for lifebased selfdmg consider recoup witch has 50% in 2 clusters and (quite expensive) nine lives/stasis prison
Oh no, I know it won't compete in terms of damage, but life sustain alone should make it into different playstyle/feel to the HoT build.
I took a break from this game for a few years and I just can't make my own builds any more lol. So much has changed, and so much I've forgotten. The 10 page article about leech sums it up for me .
Yeah, leech is just too much :D
Hint, there is a tech using Energy From Within you can get negative life modifiers. I made a character that has 400 ish life at lv90 just for the Tainted Pact. I feel your pain bro, exactly like me every single league trying off-meta builds.
Leech won't be a problem in this case but as greedy as me I want the Corrupted Soul for sure and it won't work with energy shield. So my strat ended up with converting as much as damage taken to fire, use The Formless Flame and rings with -Fire Damage taken from Hits + Primal Aegis. With some max res, meaning the couple hundreds of -Fire Damage taken from Hits is equivalent to a few thousands of EHP. You are then immune to DoT because of Tainted Pact and you are immune to hit that does not one-shot you. I'm also running on CWDT loop to sustain life leech.
It's a fun project that you no longer rely on life/ES/mana as resources to take damage. But the build is a hell to play with because so many things needed to start.
ok, I skimmed through the video so maybe I missed it however I do not think so. The main problem here is the belt. The belt is playing AGAINST what you want to do. Normally an instance leeches for 2% of your life. How long it depends on the ammount of damage that is leeched (like 1% of the damage dealt for example). So, duration is: d = leeching_dmg / (0.02 * max life). Max recovery from life leech (on the belt) increses that 0.02 which in turn reduces the duration.
EDIT: Actually, the wiki tells that I am partially wrong:
"Modifiers to total Recovery per second from Life Leech amplify recovery from leech, not the base rate of the leech instance. Multiplying recovery does not 'empty' a leech instance faster."
So, TLDR: the belt is just useless, not detrimental
That is why I am always confused about leech. I think I understand it until some new way of using it totally screws up with what I think I know.
If i'm not mistaken the only thing that increases leech duration calculation is "increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech" from slayer, not sure if this line exist in another source. As far as i know there is no way of lowering the 2% rate, and each leech instance can "store" 10% of our hp, so a full leech instance takes 5s to empty. Increasing the maximum ammount a leech instance can "store", so slayer can go from 10% to 20%, and a full instance will last 10s (2% being used per second).
In this setup the limiting factor though is the amount of damage being taken (as Wolfio mentioned in the video this relative to max life, the more max life you have the more damage you''l need to take, since the leech instance is spent on a 2% of you max life rate and the maximum stored is also based on % of max life).
The other avenue is flask effect. With the flask leech damage taken mod you leech 15% of damage taken, which means that to fill a leech instance, that 15% would need to be equal to 10% of your hp, resulting in having to take 2 thirds of your life in order to get a full duration leech (or, to get a roughly 1.25 s, which would be better in this setup, about 16.66..% of your HP, which is still a lot) . Increasing flask effect scales the 15% number, so it's easier to get more leech pool (remembering more pool means it takes more time to spend it at the 2% rate).
@@Suppaichuthat is only if you reach the cap. 5s is way more than necessary for this build. Wolfio is far from the cap. Anyway, increasing the amount of damage leeched per instance or reducing your life pool.
Wurms molt does not help in increasing the base leech duration, since maximum recovery works to increase the maximum amount of time it stays leeching for big hits (the calculation provided by the wiki is maximum recovery [10% base default] / 2%). In summary you need a bigger leech instance and everything (hopefully) will be fine, since it will be a longer leech
I was thinking that may have been the case when editing video.
not sure if it still works but there used to be a trick with hydrosphere where if you had two on seperate cwdt at say level 1 and level 2 they overwrite each other and allow a new hit each time which bypasses the hit limit hydro usually has, this would possibly allow you to maintain leech in a zero mob environment providing your flasks stay up
DoT's get clipped off if their duration is too short. I don't remember what the minimum is, but it's a thing. I *think* it's 0.10 seconds or lower gets clipped and doesn't get applied.
Afaik this was changed a few leagues ago because the 90% reduced ignite duration AN mod made some mobs completely immune. Technically they probably still need to last at least one server tick, but that's way shorter than 0.1 seconds.
that used to be true, and it used to be 0.3 seconds (for ignite at least). Not true anymore, it was changed a few leagues ago
Thoughts on doing this with pconc of bouncing? If your poison duration is low enough maybe you can get your poison to expire between bounces lol.
Not a fan of any concoction skills. Don't like the trajectory, just throwing over enemies that run quickly towards you. Just not for me.
If im not wrong, You should turn on RF to deal constant dmg to You and take "Divine Flesh" keystone so the burning will be turn also to chaos dmg and then the flask enchant will be leeching and healing You all the time 😊
Leech is only for hits. It only works if you can maintain leech ALL the time, otherwise you drop dead.
woolfio arent 6link beasts super super cheap why waste time using fuses
If you manage to balance this correctly, pick up Leathe Shade, as it will perma be up.
"more duration of ailments on you" will ruin the balance though
edit: it also doesn't work, leathe shade requires you to take damage, if tainted pact is up you won't take damage from chaos.
Similar HoT idea I have had for years but I dont think there is any way to attain it - if you make HoT last one tick or so and can shock enemies every 1 or 2 ticks you can potentially have your HoT hit every one or two ticks, bypassing normal hit rate restrictions. I don't think there are enough sources of reduced duration to make it work but thought I'd mention it in case someone can find them
If I understand correctly, you are trying to proc HoT every tick by shocking the enemy every tick? I doubt it will work because HoT is a buf and procing new HoT won't immediately trigger HoT. I'm not 100% sure tho.
@@Inficate-bd3qu if HoT shoots a bolt the instant you gain the buff it might work. if you need to wait for the 'frequency' to get the first hit then it wouldn't. i don't know which is true
No you misunderstand me. Not trying to shock every tick, HoT cannot even shock. I am poisoning every hit and making poison expire before next hit.
Also shock has minimum of 200 ms duration, anything below that will not even apply on enemies.
If you are confused, the unique ring triggers herald's bolts for all HoT duration if I shock enemy, instead of killing enemy, that is why I have cast when damage taken linked to spell that shocks.
@@Woolfio i didn't misunderstand, i'm just explaining an alternative HoT idea i had that would be a different build
I'm sure someone else already said this, but can't you shock enemies without dealing damage to them? like with shocking ground or something.
Ground shocks are not player's shocks.
Game is weird.
I've heard there are similar issues with eternal youth keystone when used with predictive mode instead of lockstep. game start to incorrectly calculate when dmg is taken and not
Well I am on auto and it should pretty much always choose lockstep because I have pretty good latency.
Couldnt it be like Build of the Week Season 12 - Episode 3? The concept is very similar, maybe some adaptations.
Did you try interaction with Forbiddent Taste Flask on top, it could give you, if you constantly leech, extra recovery, but to have maximum efficiency, you need low chaos resistance.
I have tried it long ago, it is pure benefit fro tainted pact if you can maintain leech.
Necromancer has a asc node: enemies near corpses are shocked and chilled
That with corpse walker boots chill and shock all screen
Not sure if that corpse mod counts as you shocking. You need to shock enemy in order for HoT ring to proc.
@@Woolfio I remember it used to count at least, because there used to be some way of restoring 2% mana or something when you shocked enemies and I remember it was basically instant mana restore for necromancers due to that synergy. Few years ago now I think
@@Woolfio it works. ive automated hot using it! you must test
Could it be that the poison duration on enemies and you is somehow different?
Because you were most definitely getting way more than one stack of poison, which, by all means should be impossible.
It was poison proliferation and CWDT crackling lance/forbidden rite. I remember poison proliferation was causing some issues in the past with tainted pact idea, it may be resetting poison duration, although not sure.
Kahuturoa's Certainty boots maybe make cense because it has: Unaffected by Damaging Ailments
Unaffected means you also don't get heals from amulet.
TLDR 19:59
maybe recoup is the way to go ( mana and life, then no need for lifetap)
Then it is a whole different build, not even doing self poison. No chance you could recoup enough to survive self poisons. 0.
@@Woolfio yeah true also recoup only helps vs the self harm from stroms ecret not from any dmg over time
recoup?
I wish tainted pact builds could use maw of mischief and still get massive poison regen.
does short duration aliments work now? wasnt it the case if you went below 0.4 sec it dealt no damage?
No, it was only problem for ignites, they promised to changed that and I think they did, but I don't remember if they actually changed that for ignites.
If you're wanting to combine tons of mechanics, try using Herald of Thunder to proc poison and kill enemies, Icefang Orbit to shatter poisoned enemies, and Herald of Ice for AoE.
Or try making Herald of Ice proc itself by the poison damage done, making cascades :P
Er... why? Just freeze them with herald of ice. Already done that last league, was great. Don't see reason to add extra step and make it more convoluted if it doesn't change end result.
@@Woolfio Vaal Breach Portal on bosses with poison prolif, "shatter" all the enemies and pile on a crapton of poison on the boss.
I see a few possible issues with the build concept. 1) Several of your poison duration modifiers are "enemy poison duration" which might not be applying to the reflected poisons and you wind up taking longer poisons than intended. 2) Leech duration is tied to damage dealt. it caps at 2% of your maximum health per second but since you just want a .15 second duration you'd still need to leech around .3% of your max life which is ~4x more than you are currently leeching. This could be wrong, nobody really understands leech but I've tinkered with leech mechanics very heavily in the past and I think you'd sold duration by leeching more. 3) look into perma-ward in a small amount to "take the damage" but not lose hp. Not sure if it'd be functional but might be a solution to killing yourself with the HoT reflects
Not sure which modifier you are talking about, but having shorter poison duration on me should not be an issue, as long as it is shorter than leech duration.
Recoup is fixed to 4 sec (3sec with mastery), and it does not matter how much damage you do.
That flask is working with Herald, otherwise I would always instantly die because nothing else does damage to me. It just leech duration was too short because I was doing too little damage and that leech on flask was not providing enough. Either increase single hit damage taken or increase flask effect to boost leech %.
What about soul tether, or replica soul tether(cant remember), instead of petrified blood? I made a self poison flicker strike jugg 2 leagues ago. It works for me.
Yeah I will try that today.
Another way of getting long lasting leech instances is to play ES based and have as little life as possible (Ghostwrithe?)
The problem is that Tainted Pact only recovers life
If crackling lance poison is problem, how about using three dragons for fire shock
Helmet slot just for that? That is a big loss. Besides you will still have lightning damage to any spell because of HoT buff.
Time to roll baited pact :)
In all seriousnes though, the attempt is good, but it usually is better to use tainted pact as an aide, rolling tainted pact/golden rule/apep's slumber/doppelguise/csoul/maw of conquest (for swapping later)/ wurms and cyclone+cwc+forbidden rite with HoA scaling from clusters
You get insane sustain and nice damage, even on low budget its like 7m dot dps (with buffs)
I don't know if it's still relevant, but I'll just throw the following two sentences into the room.
15% of Damage Taken from Hits is Leeched as Life during Flask Effect
life leech effects are not removed when unreserved life is filled
I think you die because leech ends and you only get dot damage, which does not trigger the leech of the flask, since it is only triggered by hit damage. You would probably have to work with "damage taken recoup as life" because that doesn't end when your health is full.
I have petrified blood to have "overleech". Leech does not end unless its duration runs out.
Recoup is never going to be enough for this strategy because I would need to heal back instantly hundreds of thousands of life. Bigger poison means I would need more life sustain.
cool idea! check Qotra's Regulator shield
did mention it in the video as part of my plan
@@Woolfio oh sry ! good content
Legacy Atziri's acuity?
cluster jewel gotta be the answer
Those poison ground from zombies deals ton of damage... just saying
Chaos damage heals remember :)
@@Inficate-bd3qu yeah, while leaching. got this part. But -60% ress with 1.4klife its fast drain.
It wasn't -60 res, only -20, haven't finished campaign yet. Shouldn't have tested in that zone.
@@Woolfio nice aproach anyway, also HoT should deal more damage to reach full length of the leech imho. Lighting skill have low end damage so it could happen that you hit twice with too low dmg to sustain leech and chaos heal inversion.
@@mateuszkasza Leech is not coming from herald.
immortal ambition instead of petrifyed blood should guarantee overleech
Ah yeah, I overlooked that one, never really used it in the past. Still, not really fixing core problem, just allows me to drop petrified blood.
After ggg removed alt quality life leech, scaling leech duration became fucking impossible…there's only like slayer and that's it :(
chat is hilarious ahahaha