Hey I don't really use TH-cam social features much so not sure if this is the appropriate forum but just wanted to say that your videos are awesome, I started playing a Tribal Nomad run because of you! Your Oxygen Not Included videos were great too but that game wasn't really my thing. Thanks so much for all the work you put into these.
Also a second bonus comment. I have seen a play through where by some weird chance the ideology of the player was very similar to an NPC ideology (it was spooky), which meant they got along very well, so it was easy to have a mixed colony (they shared memes and décor choices and ritual types). Each Ideology had enough pawns to have a leader with the convert ability, now contrary to what might happen in reality, these do not conflict (work against each other) when breaking a pawns belief, the Ideology that gets the conversion is the one that drops the Certainty below 0%. This means you can have opposing Ideologies work together to break the Certainty of a target and then carefully choose which Leader/Ideology drops them below 0% and gains the convert. While I have not seen it done with Conversion Rituals, only the Convert Power, I would not be surprised if you could double up the rituals as well (Ritual A, Ritual B, Convert Ability A, Convert Ability B, assuming both leaders had a 10 Social would be something like a 168% drop in the target's Certainty, which would be excessive in most cases).
You have to look out though if one of the ideologies has bigotry, they will _hate_ everyone that doesn't share their beliefs. .... actually that could be funny, social fighting galore :D
@@Saturas35142 Yes I understand that, but like I said by some weird chance on that playthrough the Ideologies were compatible, I have no idea what the odds of that happening are, but it had to be very low (probably low enough that people will think it is a big deal when it happens). Now that said if you were building your own Ideology as play progresses it would be much easier to make your Ideology compatible with an existing one.
I see a Francis John's new video. I click like. And then I watch it. Doesn't matter if it is Rimworld, Factorio, Satisfactory, PC building, CPU comparatives, or channel updates. Yes, call me fanboy. Keep up the good work mister!
Glad to have the mechanics of Ideology finally getting explored in a serious capacity. Any chance for a guide to each of the new specialists and their required memes in the not too distant future?
Throw a person into dark room with no windows and doors and put his best friends decaying corpses nearby so he can eat them to not starve to death so he change his beliefs. After a few days: -Hey! Do you want to join my religion? -Whats your religion? -We are farmers. We live a simple life. -I`m interested. Sweet Rimworld
@@alexivanovs4122 ^this. Have been keeping all my prisons chilled, and some in freezing temp. Just be mindful of the min./max. temps of the pawns, as nudists will have the human-baseline requirements. Have had more than a fair share of accidental bonus meat from not paying attention to which cells my prisoners were placed in
llayingin a freezing cold room on the edge of death, nowhere tos tand excepton the half eaten rottign and frozen corpses of h is friends and family, frost bitten on all limbs, "so do you want to join our peaceful non voilent vegan commune?"
Legitimately, this entire methods video is just the culmination of Francis' mental breakdown trying to convert literally anyone during the ideology playthrough. This is great.
So, basically you have just confirmed that everyone who insisted that mistreating prisoners was the fastest way to convert, was wrong. Mistreating prisoners only increases the time it takes to convert by ensuring they have a crisis of faith, which will reset their certainty and they choose a random ideology. Anyone thinking that I am a very moralistic person, is correct, I am. Which is how i knew that mistreating prisoners was the wrong way to convert, because I never mistreat prisoners and I have never had any problems converting them. You have also identified the very fastest way to convert prisoners is to do a conversion ritual followed by using the convert skill, assuming the ritual did not instantly convert them. I have never used the ritual before, so I'm always happy to learn something new, and that is usually the case whenever you do these tutorials, so great job FJ, and thank you. :) On a side note, I have never played cannibalistic, organ harvesting, slavery etc. Some of you may be thinking my gameplay must be boring, well, I always play on Randy Random, and, in my experience, Randy loves to hit you with a disease or 2 within the first few days, especially when playing Naked Brutality, so rest assured, my gameplay is always entertaining, at least for me. :) Just because you CAN do a thing, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. :)
I'm actually of a very different opinion. I dislike 'evil' methods in rimworld because they are TOO effective, and tend to spike wealth faster than I'm ready for it. They do work, but only for extremely competent and aggressive players. IRL, cruel methods don't work as well. I've heard arguments for and against, but to the best of my knowledge, evil is inherently addictive. It's impossible to be 'just a little' evil, it's a slippery slope that inevitably leads to self destruction. In rimworld we can play as an objective, omnipotent, omnipresent, invincible watcher. We can't be that in real life.
I think you're making too many assumptions about the "average" Rimworld player. Yeah, much gets made of the horrible things that Rimworld lets you do, but I don't believe anyone thinks those are *necessary* to enjoy the game. My personal reaction to the section on breaking down a stubborn prisoner via Extreme Breaks was "yeah, not doing that."
Well before ideologies all that bad stuff like organ harvesting, gathering skin etc. gave real bad mood debufs and it still does. Game doesnt really encourage being evil
This is going to sound strange but I'm not big into the evil stuff either. No cannibal playthrough, no organ harvesting that was not related to fixing injured pawns, no slavery but I have sold people who would have died untended otherwise. All the evil stuff I have done tended to have a purpose and reason, it was not done to be evil it just so happens that it was the best thing to do to keep my people alive or help them prosper. Leave my colonists alone and we will get along just fine, but if you threaten them I have found I am capable of things that would make the guy from Saw blush. Though I will admit playing the raider religion has made us a tad violent to stop mood problems.
@Kiprith mistreating prisoners was the most effective way of converting, keeping their mood low, and use the wardening conversion, but in a not-so-recent patch, this was revised to be more balanced in-line with the other options of engaging prisoners (reduce will/resistance). Problem is, though, the so-called improved way of conversion just makes it that much easier when using what FJ shows in this vid
I love your tutorials. There so in depth, you show you're methods and calculation in an easy to understand way, and by the end i feel like i really understand how a thing work instead of how to just to the result as fast as possible.
When I was in school I had difficulty just learning stuff by rote, maths was a pain in the butt but once I knew what the formulas were for and why we needed them it made sense. So I suppose I try and make the tutorials the way I would like to learn them with the reasons for everything included. Glad you enjoy.
15:25 You could keep their mood bottomed out if you killed enough of their friends and family. That would depend on them having enough close pawns in the raid they were captured in, or if you were really -sadistic- committed, going out into the world and hunting them down
Great tutorial, few things to add: Converting gives way less exp on social, then recruiting & lower resistence. If you have a pawn with very low social skill, it might be worth to reduce the resistence to 0.0 first and gain 1 or 2 lvl in the process - to the converting after I thought its 3 mental breaks? Crisis, tantrum (just smashing things) and berserk (attack other prisoners, try to destroy door to attack your pawns)
This was with prisoners in individual cells, so maybe with multiple prisoners per cell other breaks are possible. But I can't think of any off the top of my head.
One extra "break" I've seen on my prisoners, is the "Daze", though that's cause of anaesthesia wearing off (due to some legs being in the way, had to be removed). Doubt this would be of any use towards conversion as they'll then be removed from any job.ticks while dazed.
That time Francis reinvented the oubliette and it turns out that it's pretty much just as efficient and effective at breaking a persons faith as in real life.
wow, i was treating my prisoner pawns nicely trying to convert them, my logic being that if i treat them nice they'll come over to my side. turns out i gotta build guantanamo bay and waterboard them lmao
I wasn't surprised, but amazed at how the Ideology DLC added to the possible warcrimes/horrific nature of the game. That corpse cell in particular is nightmare fuel, haha.
Yeah, Ideology would have been an amazing addition to the Royalty dlc, if all of the good things introduced by Royalty hadn't been severely nerfed in the 1.3 patches. I almost feel it was deliberate, I can just imagine Tynan watching FJ's videos while taking notes, Alpaca Police - nerf, huge amount of caravan animals - nerf, Animal melee blockers - nerf, playing nomadic - nerf, fast easy Wizards - nerf, killboxes - nerf, mortars - nerf, raiding tombs - nerf.
One of the other commenters here suggested hunting down a pawns family to make sure they had a low enough mood at all times and I had to pause and reflect on that new dimension of brutality
When investigating game mechanics you sometimes forget the graphics skin they have stretched over it. My favourite example is candy crush, change the candy to puppies and call it puppy crush with blood and everything. The game mechanics have not changed but now playing the game make you a monster. Think to hard about the mechanics you exploit in Rimworld and you quickly discover that you should be on a watch list.
I recently started an Ideology playthrough, got a good chuckle when the starter pet turned out to be a worg named Emily. Great video's, thanks for posting!
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but picking the precept of Proselytizing for your religion speeds up conversion dramatically! My last two religions picked this precept and I convert in about half the time. Plus my colonists often convert each other without my intervention because they are all working to rid the colony of outside religion (mild bigotry).
I have that meme and the intense bigotry precept, but found the results incredibly lacklustre. It's a few percent here and there, nothing special. If anything I found it to be a downside, as we'd upset our guests that need to be kept happy by trying to convert them.
@@jetroid do you not see your conversion ability taking far more each time you use it as well as the passive attempts? I was getting 20-30% per attempt without it, with it I get 50-70% every time I use it.
@@FrancisJohnYT I hope I am right and not wasting your time, but I definitely felt a real difference after adding it. Please let me know what you find.
5:20: Francis John's own personal Gitmo. After seeing this, I'd actually LOVE to see you play Prison Architect. I bet you'd have an absolute blast with it!
That Ideology where they just don't care is interesting, it might be worth a playthrough to explore just how bad a base you could build and not have any problems. Going along with that you could really keep the colony wealth down because you don't need fancy things to keep their mood up, which would let you exploit the raid generation system to get weak raids. You could have all your wealth in weapons and armor. Raider Conversation: "Say do you want to raid those wackos who love pain and their only wealth is in guns and armor?" "NO!"
The problem is that most memes only make them not care about something, BUT also not get any mood buffs, which means that to have a stable mood in the colony, you'll need more or less the same things (statues, floors, drugs, etc), though some combos might lower wealth cosiderably (pain is virtue + tunneler + darkness).
Will have to do some testing but the pain is virtue looks to be the best for early game. Maybe even into late game, not having to temp control your bedrooms saves so much effort.
@@FrancisJohnYT the problem with that type of ideology is that they want scarring. They will harm themselves or require you to take care of it. Scars that may either reduce their life expectancy (head max hp, torso max hp) or limit their manipulation. The later one is something you do want to avoid or handle somehow asap. To name an example: You can have a pawn with construction of 16 and they can still botch even the most basic of construction jobs if their manipulation is down to 92 %.
@@FrancisJohnYT That is my current ideology. But slowly but surely i think it's great early on, but since they only ignore comfort etc, they dont get the mood buffs from different parameters. Pain idealised is great for people with physicall suffering, bumping their mood up after the conversion. So after they are converted, they got better mood and therfor are easyer to recruit. Bad mood -> good conversion. Good mood -> good recruitment. I recoment scars -> respected. Since you will have a scarification ritual, respected scars will even make them like each other more and it reduces the chances of inner conflicts by a little margin. Also i like to use all of my pawns to recruit, because it makes it very easy to integrate and befriend someone to your colony through "building up relationship"-social modifier. Anyways, your totorial was a great help, thanks. I got confused, because i had a though conversion happening with some x40% or x60% and she reached like 1% faith and then got a faith crisis. Convering to an isolist ideology, unable to recruit. Was quite confused what happend here, if it took to much time to convert or something, because im kind of new to the game. Thank you for your content, cheers!
Seams to me like you could just fill a torture room with corpses, lower its temperature below 0 Celsius and let the pawn chew on corpses until they randomly pick your faith. Might now be the fastest way to go about it but it does mean you don't have to provide food or to warden your prisoners, and they won't try to escape. Seams like a cheap and safe way to convert lots of prisoners.
Great Tutorial, Francis! A bit off-topic, but have you tried the "More Planning" mod? It allows for multiple colors for planning as well as changing the opacity of plans and turning plans on and off. Really helps when planning a killbox if you want to color the different wall and barricades differently, or when you want to plan out workstations and chairs or other buildings and you want to use different colors for planning.
I have used it before but I got rid of it, I cull out the mods every so often and only keep the stuff I know I'm using. For planning it's usually all done at once so the tools tended not to be necessary.
I guess the corpse cell could be kept at below freezing so they don't run out of cannibalism options. Seems like anyone would be ready to be converted within a quadrum. And doesn't everyone already have a freezer for corpses anyway?
You can also replace all of your rituals with recruitment ceremony and get a pawn that already has your ideology like every 2 days depending on how lucky you are
Turns out I missed the Conversion start in the info sheet, it's specific to conversion. Though a psychic reader to help trade might not be a bad idea in my current playthrough.
I've been using heatstroke to help drop mood. They get all the sweaty and hot mood debuffs and if you keep it at serious there's some pain that helps too.
Seriously, at the end FJ just showed you the absolute fastest way to convert prisoners, don't mistreat them, do a ritual followed by the convert skill, if the ritual does not convert them instantly. Mistreating prisoners only gives a small chance to instantly convert to your ideology, but always results in extending the time to convert. If the crisis of faith does not lead them to instantly join your ideology, you have to keep on mistreating them in the hopes that they will eventually choose your ideology, which is just 1 of many they can choose. Even just using the convert skill on it's own, only takes 10.5 days, assuming you have a pawn with a good social skill level.
Some religions may have the Pain is a Virtue meme, which gives precepts so that they don't care about temperature and pain (and even enjoy it, actually). But yes, it's a good option if the regular isolation corpse cells aren't working.
I can recommend Funghi and insect meat to lower the mood of most ideologies that are immune to corpses and/or cannibalism, only tunnelers like those two ingredients and i haven't met a single ideology with that in 5 playthroughs (that i haven't created myself) To answer the question about a 18+ social skill, I see that regurarily, but only because I use the "Mad Skills" mod, where you can configure if and to what degree skill degrade. But nice to see you look deeper into these things, keep it up :D
Wait... but at 20:38 you can clearly see that you left Flo as the convertee in the conversion ritual. Moments ago, you mentioned that you were going to try to convert Noob, who had all the buffs to his Global Certainty, but then ended up in the following two tests (after the first masterful on Noob), on Flo instead. If it's 30% or whatever on Flo, what was the result with actually using Noob since he was the tougher nut to crack?
Dammit, it defaulted to Flo and I never noticed. Went back and tested again with Noob they also lost 30 points to an effective conversion ritual despite all the resistance. Took me 6 attempts 2 terrible and 3 exceptional rituals first, Randy is just messing with me.
@@FrancisJohnYT good to know! Then conversion ritual is like the Mercedes of conversion, regardless of the other factors. Really good info! Thanks for checking. :)
It is also interesting that pawn's can't get a crisis of faith when they have no legs. That means you can keep their certainty gain at +1% when you keep their mood low and they are below 50% certainty of their religion.
You can put a cooler in the torture isolation room to keep the temperature at freezing levels. so long as they have the proper clothing they'll survive, plus the corpses they're eating won't go bad so you can keep them in there for longer without interacting with them. If the prisoner doesn't have the proper clothing you can strip them and storage zone in a parka which would be enough. This will give them the chilly debuff and the slept in the cold debuffs which will add a bit more to their negative moods. Also for the buffs that your Durga's Cult gave your prisoners, the mood of the pawn after all of that was only reaching 60%. Pawn moods are measured by an additive and subtractive method that ranges from 0-100 min/max. Since the catharsis buffs were at 70, technically speaking the pawn is still reaching 0 without the additional debuffs regular ideologies would get. Its just that you only can get a mental break every 3 days instead of every other day, and the catharsis buff will only ever reach the first stack because they won't go under extreme break thresh-hold while it's active at one stack.
You missed one. Leader speaches also have a chance of instant conversion. I had one of my tree loving hippies at a speach and they weren't no hippy after it. Reading the speech result they were apparently so moved that they converted on the spot.
Speech-conversions are extremely rare, though, atleast in my experience. Haven't found a way to effectively use it as an extra "conversion ritual". Hopefully, FJ might find a way, and share with us 😅
It is definitely rare, only ever had one but still nice. Curious how likely or unlikely it actually is though and if it's possible for multiple people to be converted at once or just one.
Being a Baptist myself, I would like to say that the term Anabaptist really doesn't make sense in Rimworld. You see, we Baptists believe in doing the ritual of baptism after Salvation, which you don't have the mental faculties to do until 5 or 6 years old at the earliest. Catholics and other Christians baptize during infancy. So a convert from Catholicism to Baptist will be baptized twice. Ana-baptist means baptized _again_. This is a term invented by Catholics to refer to Baptists in a society dominated by Catholicism. (short story version). So while the term Baptist _could_ exist in a vacuum, the term Anabaptist cannot exist outside the context of Catholicism or equivalent.
@@FrancisJohnYT That video finally makes sense. Also, I think the devs have overlooked that (american) Baptists will take any excuse to have a potluck dinner. The joke is that a Baptist pastor/deacon/etc was buried with Bible in one hand and a fork in the other.
Did you do any testing with the Conversion Ritual? I dont think its from a mod, but it might be. Gives a mood boost and has a chance if you roll Masterful quality to instantly convert, regardless of how much certainty they have.
I got a great pawn from an event so they insta joined but they're ideoligion is such they're constantly having breaks. I didn't think to imprison them and convert them so now they're connected to my Berrymaker tree and I cant spare the time to have them disconnected from the tree, convert and rerecruit. Fingers crossed for a masterful conversion ritual every 20 days since I don't have anyone good at social :D
You can also use the convert ability on them, if you haven't been. It _shouldn't_ cause any negative moodlets, from my understanding, and it'll speed up the process by a lot if you don't get a masterful conversion.
@@Eon2641 they do get a -3 or so from resenting the attempt, not sure if that's because of the ideoligion though. I was using it but they have 50 percent effectiveness from somewhere and my moral guides social was really low (didn't realise I needed to prioritise it). In the end I converted a prisoner with high social, made them the moral guide and with a couple of effective rituals managed to wear them down.
Could you use temperature to make it easier to break them? Like put a torch or two in there and you could control temp by removing roof tiles from a diagonal possibly. Not sure if it would actually be worth it or doable, but that would be another strat worth testing. Or if you could find out a way to make food that gives food poisoning. Or use something like making them eat raw insects instead for people who are cannibals.
There are another two ways to increase pawn suffering. Both are expensive. Drugs and withdrawal - easiest. -35 mood during withdrawal. Second require special setup and you need to be very CAREFUL. Find psychically sensitive pawn. Install psy sensitizer, harmoniser, mindscrew and uinstall the legs. Now use all standard methods of mood lowering, to transform poor prisoner into compact high intensity psychic drone.
It might be worthwhile to recruit before you convert, once recruited you can turn around and arrest them again to convert them and when converted all you need to do is release them instead of go through another round of recruiting. You could even permit unconverted pawns to work and partake in daily colony life so long as their beliefs aren't extremely opposed to your colonies that they'd be in mental break territory 24/7, in which case it would probably be best to convert first or at least stick them back in jail once recruited.
If a pawn you capture is at 70% certainty when you capture them I would go straight for the convert. They will gain certainty if you spend time recruiting them first. It does depend on your religion though, if you can support multiple faiths you can sometimes just ignore it.
You could fairly easily counter certainty gain with your moral guide though, at most its like 3 or 5% gain per day if they're really happy and convert has a 3 day cooldown so at best you slowly convert them 15% at a time, and you can always throw rituals in there even if they aren't imprisoned. It's not as hands off as imprisoning them and will take longer but you get the labor without spending pawn time delivering food and conversion attempts
Personally, I would hit reduce resistance first before converting, that way when the prisoner has been converted, I can recruit immediately and avoid all the crisis of faith shenenigans possibly changing their ideology while I try to recruit him.
I do the same, except in the instances where their certanty is below 30% when imprisoned. Unless the prisoner has any of the multipliers towards easier conversion, then it won't matter much. Once converted, just keep their mood high enough, and they'll never get a mental break which might give the crisis of faith.
I absolutely love how you crammed that guy in with 4 dead copies of himself... and then he had to eat one... "Join our religion or we'll lock you in a room with your dead clones, and that's all you're gonna get for company AND food!"
In retrospect I maybe should have done something a little less extreme or maybe sugar coated it a bit. Just after so many hours of testing you stop seeing the game and only the numbers exist.
@@bugrilyus with great memory, comes great skills, no matter if there's a passion (single or double), when using the skillgain trainers. But yeah, it's one of the rare traits that's also accompanied by some of the less appreciated traits, and getting the approprate skills and passions is even rarer
I was just preempting the question in comments about why I stopped at 17 :) When I was editing it I knew If I did not I would end up answering that question a bunch of times later.
A ton of very interesting information Francis John! I am curious the last pawn that was easy to convert. Is it more difficult to keep them converted once they take your religion?
As far as I can tell so long as no one attempts to convert a pawn or they do not get a mental break it should be fine. However in theory a visitor could attempt to convince them via a chat, but unless they can do it in one chat it should be fine.
Keep the mood high on converted prisoners, and there should be no risk in them having a crisis of faith. Just keep in mind, if they join in on a prison break, their mood can be destabilized after a beatdown. Safest options here would be to use bare-knuckles when keeping the prisoners in line, less chances of removing parts or causing scarring on those that don't enjoy the pain. Also, the opposite would be favorable on those that do enjoy the pain of scars or lost limbs
i was thinking for your play through you could make another colony were the goal is to convert and recruit people. you could have not a lot of wealth there and set up a few autoturrets to get rid of the occasional raiders. i know that having multiple colonies messes up the game but if it’s only a small one then i’m sure it wouldn’t be too bad. you could also use a bunch of slaves there to mine out any minerals and send em back with drop pods or caravans. just an interesting suggestion
It tends to split threats and you end up overall dealing with less dangers. That tiny attack at your outpost colony should have been a large raid at your main colony. Tends to dilute the action. Also my multi tasking is terrible.
Thanks for this idea, Alex. My next run, I'll try out playing as a "Missionary"style. Wonder which Memes/Precepts that would work best/worst with 😅 Edit: ofc, Raider would be the obvious choice, though I prefer using Human Primacy as a main meme
@@salemprompthous3820 yeah i feel if your going with a diverse thoughts type colony it could help driving down faith over time but i don’t think proselytising drives down faith a whole lot
I think I know how to handle the food for trapping prisoners, and it's kibble made with fungus. Most people hate fungus, combine with kibble debuff and the fact that it can never go off. If you're ok with the penalty for butchering a human as well you can make the most horrible food imaginable.
Excellent video, I could watch an entire channel of FJ tutorials. That said I'd also add you can stack ideoligions for extra moral guides & conversion power. Also doesnt the Converison Power stat define the wardens power, not Negotiation Ability? The difference is small and they both rely only on Social skill for progression, but their progression/level is different.
I totally missed the Converison Power stat, read a comment and did not do my due diligence. Also missed out on Proselytizing, going to have to test that a bunch.
The negotiating ability and conversion power are (mostly) directly tied to social, and conciousness hediff. Increase/decrease social and/or conciousness, and both the conv.power and negot.ability follow suit. Some clothing gives a bonus to either, but not both, as far as I know. Might have missed something.
Keeping a converted pawn happy just increases their certanty, meaning they'll gain certanty in their belief each day. This is why keeping prisoners unhappy plays a part in converting them initially, as they'll gain less certanty each day. The more certanty they gain each day, the longer it'll take to break down their faith. Other than this, high mood gives no benefits to conversions, only downsides. Atleast as a baseline, as there are precepts and traits that "prove the rule".
As far as I'm aware incapacitated pawns can't move or experience mental breaks or inspirations. But I have not tested this so it might be possible but I consider it unlikely.
Is there a reason your tables don't include Social skill over 17? As far as I know negotiation ability is going to get better all the way up to 20 Social. I was also going to mention that if you have traits or equipment that increase negotiation ability, those can make a big difference as well, but then I realized that vanilla rimworld doesn't have any of that.
Without mods it's highly improbable that any pawn will get above 14-16 social. But if the trend holds each extra social point adds one extra percent of conversion.
@@FrancisJohnYT Interesting, I usually keep a whole bunch of prisoners just to train social skill and eventually reach 20, but I haven't played vanilla in years. Skill decay is indeed nasty.
Can you do the math to see if it is worth it to raise your social skill with a prisoner you just have to talk to? Like one or two prisoners you're not trying to convert or recruit just talk to for social training. I feel like that would have a big impact on colony wealth but from what I can see pwons don't have a big impact on quality wealth as opposed to other stuff like high-powered guns or lances
From my own experience, having pawns with high skills only adds a few thousand to colony wealth. Having those same pawns kitted out with Masterwork weapons and Armor, adds many thousands to the colony wealth. If you really want to spike your colony wealth, just add fine carpets to all of your rooms, that'll do it. Really useful for the Archonexus ending. :)
Last I checked you can just keep a prisoner and keep on reduce resistance and your warder will still keep talking to them even when their resistance is gone. As to if it's worth it you have to consider feeding, talking and dealing with the inevitable prison breaks.
Assuming you have the skill, medicine, and luck with surgery, you could add and remove parts repeatedly to stack mood debuffs AFAIK. By the point you can do that, it's probably easier to do things the slow way.
Am i the only one that doesn't understand clothing in rimworld? Like... is cloth enough? Should I get Devilstrand? How good is hyperweave? Is thrumbo fur goood? Should i give melee pawns clothes from a different textile that the shooting pawns? And more importantly what clothes are the best? I've seen once on a random stream a preference and I've used that ever since. But i don't know if its that good for me...
Below is the rimworld wiki on textiles, sort it by armour sharp and it tells you which material gives the best sharp protection multiplier. Sharp defends against bullets and sharp weapons like blades. Devil strand is the best reasonably easy to obtain material to make dusters out of. Dusters are the best clothing based armour. Google "Rimworld Armour tested" to see some more testing on it. rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Textiles
It's a possibility but you would need at least 2 and also you would new one's for each side that you intend to recruit. It might be a bit to much work.
Oh wow that looks crazy useful, this requires testing!! Occasional Proselytizer x3 conversion attempt frequency Sometimes Proselytizer x5 conversion attempt frequency Frequent Proselytizer x7 conversion attempt frequency
18+ social is doable. Mainly by being rich as hell and buying every social trainer you see. You've spent too much time with 100+ pawns and also you spend money on other things that I don't.
Ugh. I watched this video, because I have become annoyed by the combination of the Ideology DLC and Biotech DLCs resulting in the "disliked xenotype" prisoner pawns, who, even worse can hate their own xenotype and get significant mood debuffs. It seems like the better solution lies in just turning ideology off or accepting lower colony numbers and dealing with it, instead of this time consuming conversion stuff.
You can apply some genes to speed up the process, I put on the no prison break gene and now they can't go berserk or prison break. So if you drive down their mood their only option is to have a crisis of faith.
![RimWorld Guide: Wealth Management - Kill Raiders Before They Even Arrive [2024, 1.5+]](/img/n.gif)
It's nice to see that Francis is doing what he likes during Christmas, crunching numbers and torturing Pawns.
I was just in it for the numbers, no more corpse rooms unless the target has some modifier to religious conversion.
Wait until you see the one where he tortures numbers and crunches pawns.
I really appreciate the dark theme on the spreadsheet! My eyes thank you.
The comments made it clear that the white screen was burning people, I have since switched everything to dark mode it's so much nicer.
Hey I don't really use TH-cam social features much so not sure if this is the appropriate forum but just wanted to say that your videos are awesome, I started playing a Tribal Nomad run because of you! Your Oxygen Not Included videos were great too but that game wasn't really my thing. Thanks so much for all the work you put into these.
Also a second bonus comment. I have seen a play through where by some weird chance the ideology of the player was very similar to an NPC ideology (it was spooky), which meant they got along very well, so it was easy to have a mixed colony (they shared memes and décor choices and ritual types). Each Ideology had enough pawns to have a leader with the convert ability, now contrary to what might happen in reality, these do not conflict (work against each other) when breaking a pawns belief, the Ideology that gets the conversion is the one that drops the Certainty below 0%. This means you can have opposing Ideologies work together to break the Certainty of a target and then carefully choose which Leader/Ideology drops them below 0% and gains the convert. While I have not seen it done with Conversion Rituals, only the Convert Power, I would not be surprised if you could double up the rituals as well (Ritual A, Ritual B, Convert Ability A, Convert Ability B, assuming both leaders had a 10 Social would be something like a 168% drop in the target's Certainty, which would be excessive in most cases).
You have to look out though if one of the ideologies has bigotry, they will _hate_ everyone that doesn't share their beliefs.
.... actually that could be funny, social fighting galore :D
@@Saturas35142 Yes I understand that, but like I said by some weird chance on that playthrough the Ideologies were compatible, I have no idea what the odds of that happening are, but it had to be very low (probably low enough that people will think it is a big deal when it happens). Now that said if you were building your own Ideology as play progresses it would be much easier to make your Ideology compatible with an existing one.
Once you have enough pawns of a faith you can start modifying it, so in theory you could end up making multiple identical religions.
I see a Francis John's new video. I click like. And then I watch it.
Doesn't matter if it is Rimworld, Factorio, Satisfactory, PC building, CPU comparatives, or channel updates.
Yes, call me fanboy.
Keep up the good work mister!
fanboy
I have never seen such negative mood modifiers. I’m impressed
Being forced to eat your own clone has got to be a bit depressing alright.
Glad to have the mechanics of Ideology finally getting explored in a serious capacity. Any chance for a guide to each of the new specialists and their required memes in the not too distant future?
Will put it on the list, though I have not played with the melee specialist yet, not even sure how to test the effectiveness of that yet.
Thanks for these videos, love them.
"On the bright side they are incredibly badly malnourished..." -Francis John
3:49 - "and you can set up a moral guide" , reads actual role name
With that religion their is no point trying to hide it.
Throw a person into dark room with no windows and doors and put his best friends decaying corpses nearby so he can eat them to not starve to death so he change his beliefs.
After a few days:
-Hey!
Do you want to join my religion?
-Whats your religion?
-We are farmers. We live a simple life.
-I`m interested.
Sweet Rimworld
best thing would be to keep their rooms refrigerated, can eat their friends for longer and have a slept in cold debuff
@@alexivanovs4122 ^this.
Have been keeping all my prisons chilled, and some in freezing temp. Just be mindful of the min./max. temps of the pawns, as nudists will have the human-baseline requirements. Have had more than a fair share of accidental bonus meat from not paying attention to which cells my prisoners were placed in
llayingin a freezing cold room on the edge of death, nowhere tos tand excepton the half eaten rottign and frozen corpses of h is friends and family, frost bitten on all limbs, "so do you want to join our peaceful non voilent vegan commune?"
Legitimately, this entire methods video is just the culmination of Francis' mental breakdown trying to convert literally anyone during the ideology playthrough. This is great.
Hey we converted a bunch of people, but yes I needed to know how it works so I could figure out why some were taking so long.
I had just picked up ideology, and was looking for another one of your tutorials when this popped up in my feed. Spooky.
So, basically you have just confirmed that everyone who insisted that mistreating prisoners was the fastest way to convert, was wrong. Mistreating prisoners only increases the time it takes to convert by ensuring they have a crisis of faith, which will reset their certainty and they choose a random ideology. Anyone thinking that I am a very moralistic person, is correct, I am. Which is how i knew that mistreating prisoners was the wrong way to convert, because I never mistreat prisoners and I have never had any problems converting them. You have also identified the very fastest way to convert prisoners is to do a conversion ritual followed by using the convert skill, assuming the ritual did not instantly convert them. I have never used the ritual before, so I'm always happy to learn something new, and that is usually the case whenever you do these tutorials, so great job FJ, and thank you. :)
On a side note, I have never played cannibalistic, organ harvesting, slavery etc. Some of you may be thinking my gameplay must be boring, well, I always play on Randy Random, and, in my experience, Randy loves to hit you with a disease or 2 within the first few days, especially when playing Naked Brutality, so rest assured, my gameplay is always entertaining, at least for me. :)
Just because you CAN do a thing, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. :)
I'm actually of a very different opinion. I dislike 'evil' methods in rimworld because they are TOO effective, and tend to spike wealth faster than I'm ready for it. They do work, but only for extremely competent and aggressive players.
IRL, cruel methods don't work as well. I've heard arguments for and against, but to the best of my knowledge, evil is inherently addictive. It's impossible to be 'just a little' evil, it's a slippery slope that inevitably leads to self destruction. In rimworld we can play as an objective, omnipotent, omnipresent, invincible watcher. We can't be that in real life.
I think you're making too many assumptions about the "average" Rimworld player. Yeah, much gets made of the horrible things that Rimworld lets you do, but I don't believe anyone thinks those are *necessary* to enjoy the game.
My personal reaction to the section on breaking down a stubborn prisoner via Extreme Breaks was "yeah, not doing that."
Well before ideologies all that bad stuff like organ harvesting, gathering skin etc. gave real bad mood debufs and it still does. Game doesnt really encourage being evil
This is going to sound strange but I'm not big into the evil stuff either. No cannibal playthrough, no organ harvesting that was not related to fixing injured pawns, no slavery but I have sold people who would have died untended otherwise. All the evil stuff I have done tended to have a purpose and reason, it was not done to be evil it just so happens that it was the best thing to do to keep my people alive or help them prosper.
Leave my colonists alone and we will get along just fine, but if you threaten them I have found I am capable of things that would make the guy from Saw blush.
Though I will admit playing the raider religion has made us a tad violent to stop mood problems.
@Kiprith mistreating prisoners was the most effective way of converting, keeping their mood low, and use the wardening conversion, but in a not-so-recent patch, this was revised to be more balanced in-line with the other options of engaging prisoners (reduce will/resistance). Problem is, though, the so-called improved way of conversion just makes it that much easier when using what FJ shows in this vid
I love your tutorials. There so in depth, you show you're methods and calculation in an easy to understand way, and by the end i feel like i really understand how a thing work instead of how to just to the result as fast as possible.
When I was in school I had difficulty just learning stuff by rote, maths was a pain in the butt but once I knew what the formulas were for and why we needed them it made sense. So I suppose I try and make the tutorials the way I would like to learn them with the reasons for everything included. Glad you enjoy.
15:25 You could keep their mood bottomed out if you killed enough of their friends and family. That would depend on them having enough close pawns in the raid they were captured in, or if you were really -sadistic- committed, going out into the world and hunting them down
I admire the idea, just not sure how we would track them down outside of just attacking bases belonging to the side.
As always, a master class of Rimworld. Thanks a lot!
16:18 put a freezer in the wall to keep the corpses from rotting and forget about the pawn until its ready
Great tutorial, few things to add: Converting gives way less exp on social, then recruiting & lower resistence. If you have a pawn with very low social skill, it might be worth to reduce the resistence to 0.0 first and gain 1 or 2 lvl in the process - to the converting after
I thought its 3 mental breaks? Crisis, tantrum (just smashing things) and berserk (attack other prisoners, try to destroy door to attack your pawns)
I don't remember seeing a prisoner do a tantrum. Pawns yes.
This was with prisoners in individual cells, so maybe with multiple prisoners per cell other breaks are possible. But I can't think of any off the top of my head.
One extra "break" I've seen on my prisoners, is the "Daze", though that's cause of anaesthesia wearing off (due to some legs being in the way, had to be removed). Doubt this would be of any use towards conversion as they'll then be removed from any job.ticks while dazed.
Love your deep dives into game mechanics
That time Francis reinvented the oubliette and it turns out that it's pretty much just as efficient and effective at breaking a persons faith as in real life.
wow, i was treating my prisoner pawns nicely trying to convert them, my logic being that if i treat them nice they'll come over to my side. turns out i gotta build guantanamo bay and waterboard them lmao
Yeah it's not very intuitive, though I was pleasantly surprised to learn prisoners only break at extreme levels.
I wasn't surprised, but amazed at how the Ideology DLC added to the possible warcrimes/horrific nature of the game. That corpse cell in particular is nightmare fuel, haha.
Yeah, Ideology would have been an amazing addition to the Royalty dlc, if all of the good things introduced by Royalty hadn't been severely nerfed in the 1.3 patches. I almost feel it was deliberate, I can just imagine Tynan watching FJ's videos while taking notes, Alpaca Police - nerf, huge amount of caravan animals - nerf, Animal melee blockers - nerf, playing nomadic - nerf, fast easy Wizards - nerf, killboxes - nerf, mortars - nerf, raiding tombs - nerf.
One of the other commenters here suggested hunting down a pawns family to make sure they had a low enough mood at all times and I had to pause and reflect on that new dimension of brutality
When investigating game mechanics you sometimes forget the graphics skin they have stretched over it.
My favourite example is candy crush, change the candy to puppies and call it puppy crush with blood and everything. The game mechanics have not changed but now playing the game make you a monster. Think to hard about the mechanics you exploit in Rimworld and you quickly discover that you should be on a watch list.
@@FrancisJohnYT *installs candy crush* 🤣🤣🤣
I recently started an Ideology playthrough, got a good chuckle when the starter pet turned out to be a worg named Emily. Great video's, thanks for posting!
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but picking the precept of Proselytizing for your religion speeds up conversion dramatically! My last two religions picked this precept and I convert in about half the time. Plus my colonists often convert each other without my intervention because they are all working to rid the colony of outside religion (mild bigotry).
I have that meme and the intense bigotry precept, but found the results incredibly lacklustre. It's a few percent here and there, nothing special.
If anything I found it to be a downside, as we'd upset our guests that need to be kept happy by trying to convert them.
@@jetroid do you not see your conversion ability taking far more each time you use it as well as the passive attempts? I was getting 20-30% per attempt without it, with it I get 50-70% every time I use it.
I need to start testing this, if you could double conversion speed that would be a game changer.
@@FrancisJohnYT I hope I am right and not wasting your time, but I definitely felt a real difference after adding it. Please let me know what you find.
5:20: Francis John's own personal Gitmo. After seeing this, I'd actually LOVE to see you play Prison Architect. I bet you'd have an absolute blast with it!
It's on my list, actually wait it's in my library so it's already on the spinning wheel.
That Ideology where they just don't care is interesting, it might be worth a playthrough to explore just how bad a base you could build and not have any problems. Going along with that you could really keep the colony wealth down because you don't need fancy things to keep their mood up, which would let you exploit the raid generation system to get weak raids. You could have all your wealth in weapons and armor.
Raider Conversation: "Say do you want to raid those wackos who love pain and their only wealth is in guns and armor?" "NO!"
The problem is that most memes only make them not care about something, BUT also not get any mood buffs, which means that to have a stable mood in the colony, you'll need more or less the same things (statues, floors, drugs, etc), though some combos might lower wealth cosiderably (pain is virtue + tunneler + darkness).
@@NaderinZim Now I want to see an ascetic playthrough with appropriate memes.
Will have to do some testing but the pain is virtue looks to be the best for early game. Maybe even into late game, not having to temp control your bedrooms saves so much effort.
@@FrancisJohnYT the problem with that type of ideology is that they want scarring. They will harm themselves or require you to take care of it. Scars that may either reduce their life expectancy (head max hp, torso max hp) or limit their manipulation. The later one is something you do want to avoid or handle somehow asap. To name an example: You can have a pawn with construction of 16 and they can still botch even the most basic of construction jobs if their manipulation is down to 92 %.
@@FrancisJohnYT That is my current ideology. But slowly but surely i think it's great early on, but since they only ignore comfort etc, they dont get the mood buffs from different parameters. Pain idealised is great for people with physicall suffering, bumping their mood up after the conversion. So after they are converted, they got better mood and therfor are easyer to recruit. Bad mood -> good conversion. Good mood -> good recruitment.
I recoment scars -> respected. Since you will have a scarification ritual, respected scars will even make them like each other more and it reduces the chances of inner conflicts by a little margin. Also i like to use all of my pawns to recruit, because it makes it very easy to integrate and befriend someone to your colony through "building up relationship"-social modifier.
Anyways, your totorial was a great help, thanks. I got confused, because i had a though conversion happening with some x40% or x60% and she reached like 1% faith and then got a faith crisis. Convering to an isolist ideology, unable to recruit. Was quite confused what happend here, if it took to much time to convert or something, because im kind of new to the game.
Thank you for your content, cheers!
Seams to me like you could just fill a torture room with corpses, lower its temperature below 0 Celsius and let the pawn chew on corpses until they randomly pick your faith. Might now be the fastest way to go about it but it does mean you don't have to provide food or to warden your prisoners, and they won't try to escape. Seams like a cheap and safe way to convert lots of prisoners.
Wonder what is the average number of corpses you would need per prisoner to keep them fed until they convert.
@@FrancisJohnYT This sounds like a perfectly reasonable scientific question.
Nice on the door trick and I didn’t know about the only 2 types of prisoner breaks. Huzzah for everyone on a excellent tutorial
It's one of these things that you hear and think "oh...now that you mention it...why the hell have I never noticed?" 🙈😂
I felt so dumb when I figured it out, spent ages testing minor and major breaks before it finally dawned on me 😁
Great Tutorial, Francis! A bit off-topic, but have you tried the "More Planning" mod? It allows for multiple colors for planning as well as changing the opacity of plans and turning plans on and off. Really helps when planning a killbox if you want to color the different wall and barricades differently, or when you want to plan out workstations and chairs or other buildings and you want to use different colors for planning.
I have used it before but I got rid of it, I cull out the mods every so often and only keep the stuff I know I'm using. For planning it's usually all done at once so the tools tended not to be necessary.
I guess the corpse cell could be kept at below freezing so they don't run out of cannibalism options. Seems like anyone would be ready to be converted within a quadrum. And doesn't everyone already have a freezer for corpses anyway?
Not every boy scout is as prepared as you 🤣🤣
You can also replace all of your rituals with recruitment ceremony and get a pawn that already has your ideology like every 2 days depending on how lucky you are
There is a line under info that is called "conversion power".
God damm it, even lists the speaker modifier in there.
12:46 It makes it even more fucked up that you shut him in a room full of the corpses of his own clones
I see a mod in the future: Conversion chamber - Straps, VR goggles, audio, electroshock. "Accept the XYZ's, the XYZ's can end the pain........"
Excellent, thanks for the video!
This video will come in handy when I finally feel like doing ideology
Rimworld man. Keep a dude in a prison with corpses in complete darkness to break his faith faster. I love this game.
Imperials have psychic readers, which specifically boost negotiation ability. What about those?
Turns out I missed the Conversion start in the info sheet, it's specific to conversion. Though a psychic reader to help trade might not be a bad idea in my current playthrough.
You should rly start calling those "breaking" prison cells Durga's cells, permanently.
yey for another tutorial with numbers and prisoners!
I've been using heatstroke to help drop mood. They get all the sweaty and hot mood debuffs and if you keep it at serious there's some pain that helps too.
Seriously, at the end FJ just showed you the absolute fastest way to convert prisoners, don't mistreat them, do a ritual followed by the convert skill, if the ritual does not convert them instantly. Mistreating prisoners only gives a small chance to instantly convert to your ideology, but always results in extending the time to convert. If the crisis of faith does not lead them to instantly join your ideology, you have to keep on mistreating them in the hopes that they will eventually choose your ideology, which is just 1 of many they can choose. Even just using the convert skill on it's own, only takes 10.5 days, assuming you have a pawn with a good social skill level.
Some religions may have the Pain is a Virtue meme, which gives precepts so that they don't care about temperature and pain (and even enjoy it, actually).
But yes, it's a good option if the regular isolation corpse cells aren't working.
I can recommend Funghi and insect meat to lower the mood of most ideologies that are immune to corpses and/or cannibalism, only tunnelers like those two ingredients and i haven't met a single ideology with that in 5 playthroughs (that i haven't created myself)
To answer the question about a 18+ social skill, I see that regurarily, but only because I use the "Mad Skills" mod, where you can configure if and to what degree skill degrade.
But nice to see you look deeper into these things, keep it up :D
Good to know I'm not the only one not seeing Tunnelers in opposing factions. Had a few Darkness, but not a single Tunneler.
Wait... but at 20:38 you can clearly see that you left Flo as the convertee in the conversion ritual. Moments ago, you mentioned that you were going to try to convert Noob, who had all the buffs to his Global Certainty, but then ended up in the following two tests (after the first masterful on Noob), on Flo instead. If it's 30% or whatever on Flo, what was the result with actually using Noob since he was the tougher nut to crack?
Dammit, it defaulted to Flo and I never noticed. Went back and tested again with Noob they also lost 30 points to an effective conversion ritual despite all the resistance.
Took me 6 attempts 2 terrible and 3 exceptional rituals first, Randy is just messing with me.
@@FrancisJohnYT good to know! Then conversion ritual is like the Mercedes of conversion, regardless of the other factors. Really good info! Thanks for checking. :)
Your videos made me go and get Rimworld.
It is also interesting that pawn's can't get a crisis of faith when they have no legs. That means you can keep their certainty gain at +1% when you keep their mood low and they are below 50% certainty of their religion.
This does seem more efficient to me than blocking them off.
Technically, you could also perform a conversion ceremony on them for another religion and purposefully make sure it fails.
You can put a cooler in the torture isolation room to keep the temperature at freezing levels. so long as they have the proper clothing they'll survive, plus the corpses they're eating won't go bad so you can keep them in there for longer without interacting with them. If the prisoner doesn't have the proper clothing you can strip them and storage zone in a parka which would be enough.
This will give them the chilly debuff and the slept in the cold debuffs which will add a bit more to their negative moods.
Also for the buffs that your Durga's Cult gave your prisoners, the mood of the pawn after all of that was only reaching 60%. Pawn moods are measured by an additive and subtractive method that ranges from 0-100 min/max. Since the catharsis buffs were at 70, technically speaking the pawn is still reaching 0 without the additional debuffs regular ideologies would get. Its just that you only can get a mental break every 3 days instead of every other day, and the catharsis buff will only ever reach the first stack because they won't go under extreme break thresh-hold while it's active at one stack.
In your little prisons having a heater vent wouldn’t be too difficult. Can just heatstroke for additional mood debuffs.
You missed one. Leader speaches also have a chance of instant conversion. I had one of my tree loving hippies at a speach and they weren't no hippy after it. Reading the speech result they were apparently so moved that they converted on the spot.
Had no idea, going to have to experiment with that to it seems.
Speech-conversions are extremely rare, though, atleast in my experience. Haven't found a way to effectively use it as an extra "conversion ritual". Hopefully, FJ might find a way, and share with us 😅
It is definitely rare, only ever had one but still nice. Curious how likely or unlikely it actually is though and if it's possible for multiple people to be converted at once or just one.
@@MadArtillery But leader speaches are not possible for prisoners, right?
@@vornamenachname884 Indeed though I usually end up recruiting them before converting them unless it's some particularily crazy ideology.
Being a Baptist myself, I would like to say that the term Anabaptist really doesn't make sense in Rimworld.
You see, we Baptists believe in doing the ritual of baptism after Salvation, which you don't have the mental faculties to do until 5 or 6 years old at the earliest.
Catholics and other Christians baptize during infancy. So a convert from Catholicism to Baptist will be baptized twice.
Ana-baptist means baptized _again_. This is a term invented by Catholics to refer to Baptists in a society dominated by Catholicism. (short story version).
So while the term Baptist _could_ exist in a vacuum, the term Anabaptist cannot exist outside the context of Catholicism or equivalent.
The things Rimworld has taught me is crazy. Have you watched that video on how to make pemmican yet? The comments are full of Rimworld players.
@@FrancisJohnYT That video finally makes sense.
Also, I think the devs have overlooked that (american) Baptists will take any excuse to have a potluck dinner. The joke is that a Baptist pastor/deacon/etc was buried with Bible in one hand and a fork in the other.
Did you do any testing with the Conversion Ritual? I dont think its from a mod, but it might be. Gives a mood boost and has a chance if you roll Masterful quality to instantly convert, regardless of how much certainty they have.
I got a great pawn from an event so they insta joined but they're ideoligion is such they're constantly having breaks. I didn't think to imprison them and convert them so now they're connected to my Berrymaker tree and I cant spare the time to have them disconnected from the tree, convert and rerecruit. Fingers crossed for a masterful conversion ritual every 20 days since I don't have anyone good at social :D
You can also use the convert ability on them, if you haven't been. It _shouldn't_ cause any negative moodlets, from my understanding, and it'll speed up the process by a lot if you don't get a masterful conversion.
@@Eon2641 they do get a -3 or so from resenting the attempt, not sure if that's because of the ideoligion though. I was using it but they have 50 percent effectiveness from somewhere and my moral guides social was really low (didn't realise I needed to prioritise it). In the end I converted a prisoner with high social, made them the moral guide and with a couple of effective rituals managed to wear them down.
12:10 the religions that appeared, arent just the mayor religions of each faction?
They are the major religions picked at random, you can't predict it.
Could you use temperature to make it easier to break them? Like put a torch or two in there and you could control temp by removing roof tiles from a diagonal possibly. Not sure if it would actually be worth it or doable, but that would be another strat worth testing. Or if you could find out a way to make food that gives food poisoning. Or use something like making them eat raw insects instead for people who are cannibals.
There are another two ways to increase pawn suffering. Both are expensive. Drugs and withdrawal - easiest. -35 mood during withdrawal. Second require special setup and you need to be very CAREFUL. Find psychically sensitive pawn. Install psy sensitizer, harmoniser, mindscrew and uinstall the legs. Now use all standard methods of mood lowering, to transform poor prisoner into compact high intensity psychic drone.
More war crimes in the name of Emilist. :D All glory to Emily.
It might be worthwhile to recruit before you convert, once recruited you can turn around and arrest them again to convert them and when converted all you need to do is release them instead of go through another round of recruiting. You could even permit unconverted pawns to work and partake in daily colony life so long as their beliefs aren't extremely opposed to your colonies that they'd be in mental break territory 24/7, in which case it would probably be best to convert first or at least stick them back in jail once recruited.
If a pawn you capture is at 70% certainty when you capture them I would go straight for the convert. They will gain certainty if you spend time recruiting them first. It does depend on your religion though, if you can support multiple faiths you can sometimes just ignore it.
You could fairly easily counter certainty gain with your moral guide though, at most its like 3 or 5% gain per day if they're really happy and convert has a 3 day cooldown so at best you slowly convert them 15% at a time, and you can always throw rituals in there even if they aren't imprisoned. It's not as hands off as imprisoning them and will take longer but you get the labor without spending pawn time delivering food and conversion attempts
Good stuff, thanks!
Personally, I would hit reduce resistance first before converting, that way when the prisoner has been converted, I can recruit immediately and avoid all the crisis of faith shenenigans possibly changing their ideology while I try to recruit him.
I do the same, except in the instances where their certanty is below 30% when imprisoned. Unless the prisoner has any of the multipliers towards easier conversion, then it won't matter much.
Once converted, just keep their mood high enough, and they'll never get a mental break which might give the crisis of faith.
I absolutely love how you crammed that guy in with 4 dead copies of himself... and then he had to eat one... "Join our religion or we'll lock you in a room with your dead clones, and that's all you're gonna get for company AND food!"
In retrospect I maybe should have done something a little less extreme or maybe sugar coated it a bit. Just after so many hours of testing you stop seeing the game and only the numbers exist.
@@FrancisJohnYT context be damned! Just gimme those stats! 😁
I am keeping my trader pawns at 19 social level with skilltrainers and prisoners, also some brain implant that affects socail
Nice
Do this with a Great Memory or Fast Learner pawn, and I'm guessing the converts would be pouring in 😁 19 social, that's insane
@@salemprompthous3820 great memory and burning passion social together on a pawn is hard to come by
@@bugrilyus with great memory, comes great skills, no matter if there's a passion (single or double), when using the skillgain trainers. But yeah, it's one of the rare traits that's also accompanied by some of the less appreciated traits, and getting the approprate skills and passions is even rarer
Amazing tutorial
no. i ve never seen 18 social unmodded lol . love those hidden messages
I was just preempting the question in comments about why I stopped at 17 :)
When I was editing it I knew If I did not I would end up answering that question a bunch of times later.
Warcrimes the game. I love it so much
A ton of very interesting information Francis John! I am curious the last pawn that was easy to convert. Is it more difficult to keep them converted once they take your religion?
As far as I can tell so long as no one attempts to convert a pawn or they do not get a mental break it should be fine.
However in theory a visitor could attempt to convince them via a chat, but unless they can do it in one chat it should be fine.
@@FrancisJohnYT That is good to know. Thank you for answering my question!
Keep the mood high on converted prisoners, and there should be no risk in them having a crisis of faith. Just keep in mind, if they join in on a prison break, their mood can be destabilized after a beatdown. Safest options here would be to use bare-knuckles when keeping the prisoners in line, less chances of removing parts or causing scarring on those that don't enjoy the pain. Also, the opposite would be favorable on those that do enjoy the pain of scars or lost limbs
i was thinking for your play through you could make another colony were the goal is to convert and recruit people. you could have not a lot of wealth there and set up a few autoturrets to get rid of the occasional raiders. i know that having multiple colonies messes up the game but if it’s only a small one then i’m sure it wouldn’t be too bad. you could also use a bunch of slaves there to mine out any minerals and send em back with drop pods or caravans. just an interesting suggestion
It tends to split threats and you end up overall dealing with less dangers. That tiny attack at your outpost colony should have been a large raid at your main colony. Tends to dilute the action. Also my multi tasking is terrible.
Thanks for this idea, Alex. My next run, I'll try out playing as a "Missionary"style. Wonder which Memes/Precepts that would work best/worst with 😅
Edit: ofc, Raider would be the obvious choice, though I prefer using Human Primacy as a main meme
@@salemprompthous3820 i think proselytiser would fit the theme, however i don’t think it’s a very good meme
@@alexivanovs4122 yup, in text, it looks like a weak meme to start out with, but might be a powerful one late-game
@@salemprompthous3820 yeah i feel if your going with a diverse thoughts type colony it could help driving down faith over time but i don’t think proselytising drives down faith a whole lot
I think I know how to handle the food for trapping prisoners, and it's kibble made with fungus. Most people hate fungus, combine with kibble debuff and the fact that it can never go off. If you're ok with the penalty for butchering a human as well you can make the most horrible food imaginable.
Fungus + insect meat?
Fungus + Human + insect kibble, tricky to make but a prisoners worst nightmare.
@@FrancisJohnYT you absolute monster it’s perfect
Excellent video, I could watch an entire channel of FJ tutorials.
That said I'd also add you can stack ideoligions for extra moral guides & conversion power. Also doesnt the Converison Power stat define the wardens power, not Negotiation Ability? The difference is small and they both rely only on Social skill for progression, but their progression/level is different.
I totally missed the Converison Power stat, read a comment and did not do my due diligence. Also missed out on Proselytizing, going to have to test that a bunch.
The negotiating ability and conversion power are (mostly) directly tied to social, and conciousness hediff. Increase/decrease social and/or conciousness, and both the conv.power and negot.ability follow suit.
Some clothing gives a bonus to either, but not both, as far as I know. Might have missed something.
Ah yes, the science of hazing
Does anything happen if you make your prisoner extremely happy?
Like do they self join? Or self convert?
Not that I'm aware of, no one has shared any stories of that happening and no mention anywhere in the wiki or patch notes.
Keeping a converted pawn happy just increases their certanty, meaning they'll gain certanty in their belief each day. This is why keeping prisoners unhappy plays a part in converting them initially, as they'll gain less certanty each day. The more certanty they gain each day, the longer it'll take to break down their faith.
Other than this, high mood gives no benefits to conversions, only downsides. Atleast as a baseline, as there are precepts and traits that "prove the rule".
... Rimworld!
Committing Geneva Convention violations, for that religious conversion.
can they experience a crisis of belief if incapacitated but concious? in that case the berserks can be avoided
I don't think incapped pawns can get any breaks, otherwise hospitalized pawns would be a nightmare.
Not even inspirations?
As far as I'm aware incapacitated pawns can't move or experience mental breaks or inspirations. But I have not tested this so it might be possible but I consider it unlikely.
Is there a reason your tables don't include Social skill over 17? As far as I know negotiation ability is going to get better all the way up to 20 Social.
I was also going to mention that if you have traits or equipment that increase negotiation ability, those can make a big difference as well, but then I realized that vanilla rimworld doesn't have any of that.
Without mods it's highly improbable that any pawn will get above 14-16 social. But if the trend holds each extra social point adds one extra percent of conversion.
@@FrancisJohnYT Interesting, I usually keep a whole bunch of prisoners just to train social skill and eventually reach 20, but I haven't played vanilla in years. Skill decay is indeed nasty.
Psychic reader gives a 50% bonus to negotiation ability, so it seems it coud help?
That´s for trading.
Psychic Reader doesn't affect Conversion Power, only Negotiation Ability (recruitment, giving gifts, etc) and Trade Price Improvement (trading)
Turns out their is a conversion stat just just a little below the negation stat that I totally missed, so far their is no way to modify it.
I had a prisoner who was just captured for their organs, had a crisis of faith because we stole an organ
I don't blame him, I think I would to.
If I remember right he was something like a jealous gourmand with bad stats
Can you do the math to see if it is worth it to raise your social skill with a prisoner you just have to talk to? Like one or two prisoners you're not trying to convert or recruit just talk to for social training. I feel like that would have a big impact on colony wealth but from what I can see pwons don't have a big impact on quality wealth as opposed to other stuff like high-powered guns or lances
From my own experience, having pawns with high skills only adds a few thousand to colony wealth. Having those same pawns kitted out with Masterwork weapons and Armor, adds many thousands to the colony wealth. If you really want to spike your colony wealth, just add fine carpets to all of your rooms, that'll do it. Really useful for the Archonexus ending. :)
Last I checked you can just keep a prisoner and keep on reduce resistance and your warder will still keep talking to them even when their resistance is gone.
As to if it's worth it you have to consider feeding, talking and dealing with the inevitable prison breaks.
what about taking kidneys and a lung?
Assuming you have the skill, medicine, and luck with surgery, you could add and remove parts repeatedly to stack mood debuffs AFAIK. By the point you can do that, it's probably easier to do things the slow way.
Am i the only one that doesn't understand clothing in rimworld?
Like... is cloth enough?
Should I get Devilstrand?
How good is hyperweave?
Is thrumbo fur goood?
Should i give melee pawns clothes from a different textile that the shooting pawns?
And more importantly what clothes are the best? I've seen once on a random stream a preference and I've used that ever since. But i don't know if its that good for me...
Below is the rimworld wiki on textiles, sort it by armour sharp and it tells you which material gives the best sharp protection multiplier. Sharp defends against bullets and sharp weapons like blades. Devil strand is the best reasonably easy to obtain material to make dusters out of. Dusters are the best clothing based armour. Google "Rimworld Armour tested" to see some more testing on it.
rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Textiles
@@FrancisJohnYT Thank you!! 😁
would it be too evil to use the implant to "share" their mood, do you turn one of them into a negative beacon?
yes, does that mean you shouldn't?
It's a possibility but you would need at least 2 and also you would new one's for each side that you intend to recruit. It might be a bit to much work.
Is the prostilze meme useful for conversions?
Oh wow that looks crazy useful, this requires testing!!
Occasional Proselytizer x3 conversion attempt frequency
Sometimes Proselytizer x5 conversion attempt frequency
Frequent Proselytizer x7 conversion attempt frequency
Like I'm going to watch a 24min video for that info?
Didn't the skull effigies gave a negative mood bonus unless they are you're religion?
Yes 😁
That's a lot of Allies 😳
Needed some extra pawns for the ritual, you looked like a good candidate for cloning 😁
It's only fair, I needed to make up for the couple of weeks of withdrawal at the start 😀
18+ social is doable. Mainly by being rich as hell and buying every social trainer you see.
You've spent too much time with 100+ pawns and also you spend money on other things that I don't.
second masterful conversion was flo, not noob
I have five pawns and they all have different ideos ...
That does not seem optimum. Being unable to modify your religion makes things a bit harder.
@@FrancisJohnYT It's not optimum, and it wasnt intentional. all my colonists died except one and I've been taking in stragglers ever since.
Ugh. I watched this video, because I have become annoyed by the combination of the Ideology DLC and Biotech DLCs resulting in the "disliked xenotype" prisoner pawns, who, even worse can hate their own xenotype and get significant mood debuffs. It seems like the better solution lies in just turning ideology off or accepting lower colony numbers and dealing with it, instead of this time consuming conversion stuff.
You can apply some genes to speed up the process, I put on the no prison break gene and now they can't go berserk or prison break.
So if you drive down their mood their only option is to have a crisis of faith.
TLDR