Engineered By Muppets | Niner Bikes get Burned for being CRAP | Abysmal QA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- I'm not sure what the people at 69er were thinking. This POS bike frame turned up with a trashed crank axle with severe signs of under rotation. Alignment that was (to put it mildly) crap and a bearing fit that was so tight the bearings ratcheted around and seized. They claim "Equisite" Engineering in their blurb, more like utter crap and incompetence.
The frame was machined to bring it to the correct size and then a custom bottom bracket was made to fit the Rotor Crankset.
Website:
www.hambini.com
Odysee
odysee.com/@hambini:9
Instagram / hambinieng
Links to stuff I use
www.ntn-snr.com NTN Bearings
www.skf.com SKF Bearings
www.mitutoyo.com Mitutoyo Measuring Gear
www.knipex.de Knipex Hand Tools
www.facom.com Facom Hand Tools
www.mazak.com Yamazaki Mazak - กีฬา
Really negative channel for the most part *_*
That's because the bike companies work to tolerances that most industries would not put up with when it comes to carbon.
Congratulations for getting the point.
The 5 year old tells you right up front, your not gonna like what I’m about to show you .
Yeah, because someone has to call out the bicycle industry for the shit it peddles. Hambini, Peak Torque, and Luescher Teknik are pretty much at the forefront of doing this, because even good cycling media channels tend to look the other way when stuff goes wrong. At least the criticism is supported by empirical measurement.
Butthurt niner owner/dealer detected
Hi Hambini !!!
This BB spins much better now then as shown on video .
Thanks so much for removing all the creaks , and and bring the bb to a normal spec that explains why I had so much creak and damage the crank axle .
In case anyone is wondering, this message is from the chap whose bike it is!
Did you have to replace your axle? Thank god you weren't using Rotor's axle-based power meter.
@@ivanivanov7064 I haven't replaced it yet the reason why is I work away from home now so I have only one bike (gravel) with me .
Nice wheels that, it's a shame they fail at such a basic yet important part. I had the same issue on a boardy I have. I resolved mine with an off the shelf bottom bracket that threaded into itself inside the pressfit section. Glad the 5 year old was able to sort it for you.
Thanks for the content man
Wouldn't a "69er" have the saddle on the headset and stem on the seatpost?
Dinner for two with a shit view?
Nice.
pissing myself , thanks for that ;-)
Lol
Legend
Hambini finally gives mountain bikes and mountain bikers some love. More please :-)
I dunno buddy, I'd put this bike into the offroad dentistry category. A way to go before a proper mountain bike shows up here.
@@Catcrumbs just wait till these guys hear about dropper posts, triple clamp forks and dh casing
@@joshdonley2842 na man its enough when you tell them that 29" tires can weight 1,5kg each without sealant or tubes. At least my tires weight that...
@@Catcrumbs whats a proper MTB for you? This bike is far from dentist $.
Agreed, more mountain bike love please!
Hambini I love this show, please keep your sarcasm, swearing and honesty on the bike industry. Crap is crap and should be called that. Customers pay 1000s for what should be top quality products but often receive shite - this should not be the case. Quality should follow the price. Keep it up - or your hairdresser might run away ...
Hell yeah!
I agree with what you're saying. Ironically, I wrench in the high end bike industry. I'm also a retired mechanical inspector and machinist in high reliability type industries.
Marketing BS will never tell consumers their junk is crap. Quite the opposite.
However, it is a consumer's sole decision,
(and responsibility) how they part with their hard earned money.
Besides government healthcare and income taxes, I haven't heard of consumers being forced to buy much of anything.
Once you give up your money, the laws of possession take hold. You just may traded your hard earned money for what should have been someone else's freakin problem. Now, YOU OWN IT! Its your problem! As one of my teachers once proclaimed, "You bought the freakin farm!"
Given the state of the larger bike industry, obvious quality issues and the fact that there is more information now available to consumers than ever before, consumers might think twice (maybe a dozen times, like me) before handing over their hard earned money.
I think folks with (not so) common sense realize snake oil salemen exist. Its also quite possible ignorant consumers might pay more than for what they're getting, given high demand and materialist frenzy.
A bicycle is an assembled device that human life just might rely upon. Wise people, who are careful with money, learn for themselves and think for themselves.
Ignore marketing BS. Seek truth and fact. Withhold money. (What a concept!)!Then manufacturers of 'soon to be dumpster filling' just might get the idea they need to offer better products. They definitely exist if you care to look.
You can trust a man with a princess blanket 🌞
Certainly better than a marketing wankateer with a spread sheet.
Nothing like a magic wand !
You're damn skippy!
Goddamit - I _always_ forget to lower the volume for the first 5 seconds... every time 🤣
I know the trend goes to loose fits, but my hairdresser said a tight interference fit is preferable. If its undersized you can fit it with some grease.
Lol
As a former bike mechanic I generally try to avoid anything that is a press fit, good old english threaded bb's just work and are so much easier to live with!
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with them if they are produced to the BB spec/standard. But a push fit hole can be hugely out of spec and still get a BB pushed in with enough force. A threaded frame cant be as out of round or mis-sized as if it was you couldn't screw the BB in at all and throw the bike together for sale to some fule.
i love mike n mike PB take. pressfit stiffer but different tools to service. end of . literally. its a frickn straightforward piece of engineering either pf or english threaded. any bonehead can service.
Its not the bottom bracket! Or the bearings. You'd need to understand how bearings work and what they require. The issue is frame manufacturing and quality control. You cant mold the tolerances required for pressfit. Look them up in a machinery handbook. Bearing bores must be machined to spec as well as inspected by inspectors. That costs extra. LOTS EXTRA.
Press shit BB frames are nothing but marketing BS. Its a garbage design in the way they manufacture frames. It all comes down to the industry's greed!
Threaded standards are tried, true, tested and proven to work fine over many decades. But they cost a little bit more to use.
Now marketing BS tells us they're not stiff enough? So we can deal with numerous designs and press fit BB 'standards? Numerous wear issues, noise, service issues and on and on?
IGNORE marketing BULLSHIT!
@@rollinrat4850 So are you saying you can get away with making a garbage frame by throwing a pressfit on it?
@@jojoadeyemi8239 Unknowing, lazy consumers swallow the marketing BS koolaide, then buy the junk. Manufacturers continue to produce well known compromised designs and ignorant folks continue giving up their money for it. So yes, they get away with it through consumer ignorance.
The one goal of marketing is to separate us from our money. It is nothing but brainwashing and propaganda.
Would I build compromised garbage? Absolutely not. I know better than to waste time and resources. As far as Im concerned, There is no logic in compromise when good solutions have existed and are proven over a long period of time. Im willing to spend the time and make the investment to do things the right way.
This is why I'll buy only new custom built frames from folks I know well. They have good history and strong work ethics. People I trust and ride with. These are known high quality sources and I have high standards. I build my own wheels and assemble all my bicycles myself exactly the way I want them. I'm a quality control expert. I was required to prove my quality on a daily basis. Human life depended on that. That was my career. I'm a retired machinist and mechanical inspector. This is how I control my process and get my money's worth. Now I'm actually learning frame building myself and gathering the equipment.
DIY has the highest potential for the greatest quality because no one can possibly give a shit more than myself, the end user.
My grandfather was from that 'greatest generation'. He could build literally anything he put his mind to. He was 'uneducated'. It simply came natural to him to figure things out on his own. He became Vice President of his company after working as a pipe fitter.
Ive never known another human with more patience than my Grampa. As a young boy I watched and helped a little as he built the baby grand piano that's in my living room now. He put together the entire piano and made all the wooden parts from scratch in his small garage/wood shop. It took him 4 years every night after he got home from work. He built all sorts of stuff, furniture, toys and a pool table He told me once "If you endeavor to do a thing, take the time to do it the right way and learn from your mistakes. Invest time in your project. Don't give up. Ask questions, learn from others and read books. If you won't do that, don't bother even trying.
This is exactly why I much prefer the older bikes with threaded bottom brackets. I would never intentionally buy a new press fit bike. I used to volunteer at a bike co-op on the weekends. I did a lot of bottom bracket re-builds. The older bikes are a lot easier to work on. This video is great for explaining the engineering involved. Please keep up the good work. Thank you.
Its amazing how simple bicycles used to be. I believe simple, efficient , affordable and reliable machinery is a great idea for transportation. This is the true beauty of bicycles.
I believe it is also amazing how complex and unreliable modern high end bicycles have become.
I own a Niner BSB9 CX Bike! No Issues on the PF Bottom Bracket but the I figured out (way too late) that the brake mount is misaligned so it is basically impossible (at least for a mechanical declined like myself) to correctly align the brake caliper.
I guess when you order a Niner they turn the wheel of misfurtune to decide where to fook up your frame!
Any good lbs be able to face brake mounts for you
yeah i winced my way through this video after purchasing a used bsb 9 rdo just yesterday. fingers crossed that its not being passed down bc of issues that will soon make themselves apparent
@@adventurevelo3610 Maybe we can, maybe not. We fight lousy quality control in my shop nearly every day and we sell lots of 'highest end' bikes. IF we're to be honest, the larger bike industry's real problem IS QUALITY. Some mounts are simply beyond repair, not to mention, a bunch of other frame and component issues.
But from a consumer's perspective, none of this should ever be necessary, considering the cost of
a ' high end' bike. What has ever happened to QC? It cuts into profit too much. Years ago, 'enthusiast quality' bicycles never had all these issues. They were merely simple reliable machines. There's a (good?) reason the vast majority of bikes are made in Asia!
YOU'LL PAY for what YOU get, one way or another! Why would anyone buy junk with issues when they actually KNOW the issues exist? I will keep saying it: IGNORE marketing BS! Try to think for yourselves and spend your money carefully.
@@rollinrat4850 That's why I keep buying Giant bikes even though they are really conservative and not really sexy. At least I know the frames will be well made.
@@adventurevelo3610 Why should LBS fix the defects from manufacturer? They're already swamped with maintenance.
What a treat to have had two Hambini videos in a weeks span. Thank you. Great work as always.
That BB hole was exquisitely engineered.
Nice. Going outboard means you can keep the somewhat fucked cranks too. Miss the scale already.
Merch idea: oval hole with the text Straight Outta Xiamen
Hey Hambini, I came across your channel doing some research and I'm hooked. Maybe it's common there, but on this side of the pond it's rare to see an engineer that knows what end of a screwdriver to hold, yet you use tools. Further, it also appears you do some machining operations to fix other's gaffs after a thorough analysis. That commands some respect. I love the attitutude and the sarcastic AF sense of humor! Definitely somebody I could have pints with. Good job man, keep it up!
Happier than ever to stick with old school GT MTBs from the '90s with square taper bottom brackets and (literally) indestructible Cro-Mo frames.
hmm no real difference to the most basic outboard system. square has smaller bearing and smaller interface/splines. how is this superior?
@@8iamretarded8 I'm not an expert, but I've never seen the kinds of bottom bracket shell diameter differences or ball bearing wear on old, tried and tested square taper bottom brackets - unlike the one shown here.
@@8iamretarded8 I believe it's the manufacturing process. The cartridge bearing assembly is already pre-assembled, everything there is already aligned and the manufacturer has control over that tolerance stack up. All it has to do is screw into the frame. Fortunately it's straightforward from a manufacturing perspective to get those threads right and aligned.
Nice build. Lets hope those hookups from the tea room have no luck reaming everyone's favourite 5yo.
Since Hambini is such a good looking chap, I wish for once he would just start the video by starring into the camera for about 30 seconds and not say HELLO and just remain still silent and smiling. That would mess with everyone's heads wondering if he's going to do it or not. At least it could be the signal to the true fans to turn the volume down.
wait, true fans turn the volume up to 11, right?
I'm considering beginning to film a compilation video of my dog jumping out of his skin at the beginning of every video
"Turn the volume down"?? You´ve missed the point of the channel.. Rgr
He did that once. Turned the volume to 0 and started his silent "HELLOOOO, HAMBINI FANNNS!". Then, after a brief second, he turned the volume on and repeated the same. Abandon all hope, headphone wearers!
I'm nodding in silence, appreciating the intense engineering scrutiny going on... and then I notice the fuzzy Cinderella towel as a backdrop. #hardcore
I just love Hambini, when he takes a swing at the industry trying to sell us fairy tale dreams about their products! They need to get down to the reality, it is not like they design vehicles with internal combustion engines or any engines at all for that matter yet they want to get us to pay as much as for a motorcycle? wth... If the price is high then the bike should be impeccable in all aspects, is it too much to ask? Go Hambini :)
I’m 💯with you!
"it is not like they design vehicles with internal combustion engines or any engines at all for that matter yet they want to get us to pay as much as for a motorcycle..." in a lot of cases they want us to pay more for a bicycle than motorcycles and cars cost and they justify it by saying that R&D is why. Bollocks. How much R&D goes into a car or motorcycle? How much labor is involved in laying up carbon? A few hours. Then bake it. QA - which hambini shows does not happen, sand and paint....done.
do you even enduro bro??
Yes, we need to keep making the motorcycle analogy. Honda and Suzuki don't put a bunch of bikes out and say they're "exquisite" and then later be like "oops, the holes aren't round, anyway, that's the customer's problem."
@@majun26 Exactly! They are forced to because they can't get away with it. Just imagine crashing at 100km/h on a 500kg beast because the bearing on the drive shaft ate itself up. But bicycles? Oh man. Don't get me started. The lies the industries have now been spouting for years are laughable.
Two Hambini videos in a week? My ear canals feel blessed
boner too?
Clicking, creaking and play.
The Holy Trinity of 'exquisite engineering'.
Great video
There's such a tremendous variety in quality in MTB frames these days. Niner has never been seen as a super high quality brand anyway. I'd love for you to look at something like a Santa Cruz frame and not just the QC on the BB but the headset and all the suspension pivot points. Was hoping Peak Torque would do that too as he picked one up.
I think you're right. I've had Marin, Giant mainly and no issues and now I have built bikes up from Chinese BXT frames. I go for BSA and had zero alignment issues using Shimano band genetic brackets.
Santa cruz gone back to threaded BB because they can't manufacture round holes
Can you reco any quality mtb brands? Im looking for one.
Yeah the tolerance of the press fit BB on my Specialized Epic was awful. Fortunately fixed easily with a conversion BB. Most off road bikes seem to be moving back to threaded BBs.
@@Andy-co6pn I didn't think Santa Cruz MTBs ever used pressfit shit. The Stigmatas do I believe, but we dont see any recurring issues on those.The shop I wrench at sells SC and I've been wrenching on Santa Cruz MTBs for quite a few years now. They're all BSA with no problems besides BBs being contaminated or worn out like is normal for bikes ridden in dirt. I even know a few people who work at Santa Cruz and I ride with the guy who builds all their show bikes. His girlfriend used to run the demo studio at the factory.
Santa Cruz is one of the only carbon bikes I'd even consider, but I'd probably just buy an alloy one.
I used to help build carbon satellite hardware and aerospace stuff as a machinist and inspector. Ive got just a bit higher standards than most bike consumers. I know very well not to waste my money, that's for sure! I don't even like plastic bikes. I can tell you, VERY few companies build decent carbon frames. Ive cut crashed bikes apart. Expensive ones. I know what to look for. Again, I'm a perfectionist with high standards. I'm careful with money.
The main thing I don't like about SC is that the really low BBs don't work well when I'm climbing tough rocky trails. More rocks than dirt type trails. I clip pedals all the time on their demos and that's on my backyard everyday trails. I know, most people descend these sorta trails, but I'm weird. I like the slow trialsy stuff too. Carbon (and fullys) are also no bueno for the long distance back country bikepacking and touring I like. Its very simply not reliable enough like all sorts of new bike 'technology'.
Custom, hand built steel is the real deal for me. Built by someone local who I know, trust and ride with. That's what I call QC! We can shake hands too! That's important!
Rob Roskopp let me test out his personal custom Bontrager back in '91, then I got one. I bought a Santa Cruz Tazmon, their 1st bike in '97. It was a fine bike for its time. Especially when you got it up to speed over 20mph or so! I put a ton of epic xc endurance miles on that thing. Then I bought an aluminum custom made Turner and was simply blown away.
Now, full suspension just makes my local riding too easy. Fullys require just too much damned maintenance. I look for ways to make trail rides more challenging! Singlespeeds and a fixed gear 'cross bike are my latest everyday rides. Like I said, I'm kinda weird.
Dude your awesome
Thanks for taking time to craft such entertaining and informative vids
Nice to see you also ream agricultural equipment.
Prophetic - to predict the future.
Apparently not understood by Niner either.
Call niner niner niner and ask them to send a Hambulance :)
"Exquisite engineering !"
"Excruciating manufacturing !"
.. and shite QA
They've engineered it to maximise profit and minimise cost. Zero compromises.
Excrement engineering...
Good way to start the day with a Hambini video...thanks!
Would love to see a video on how you machine the bottom bracket shell
I would give too many secrets away!
@@Hambini Far east joined the chat.
That's what the 30cm tool is for
@@koko_5662 my thoughts exactly
on a machine dummieyeee
Lmao, “Swedish Ball Factory”🤣
Schweinfurt Kugel Fabrik
Svenska Kullager Fabriken
How do you machine the bb bore to the proper diameter while staying square and true? Is there an elaborate milling machine setup? Or do you use hand tools that clamp from both sides?
Bond in a metal sleeve during lay up. Yes, it costs a bit more. Done properly, all that is required after bonding is standard bike shop taps and facing tools. A somewhat skilled mechanic can handle this task easily and any decent bike shop has the tools . No machine shops, expensive precision machinery, tooling, fixtures, inspection or skilled machinists are required. Precision machining is not possible without proper QC. It ALL adds to the cost of manufacturing and the bottom line.
Some bike companies actually do this sort of thing with excellent results. Threaded 'standards' are proven over numerous decades to operate properly and the bearings consistently last a proper service life.
Forget press fit shit and precision machining of frames. Pressfit shit is simply a QC crapshoot. Bike companies rarely do it properly because machining and actual QC are much too costly. Most consumers simply couldn't afford such a frame machined to high quality standards.
Once again, FORGET pressfit shit. In the past decade, the larger bike industry has proven, beyond any doubt, that they CANNOT produce proper interference fit bearing assemblies. It hasn't happened on a consistent basis and it probably never will.
I have no hairdresser or fixes. Hilarious and informative video as usual. Keep’em coming.
@Hambini, who makes best MTB frames in your opinion?
what dou you think about skf mtrx bearings for mtb use?
@16:00…to be fair, the SKF recommendations are for the bearing outer race into the housing. PF30 uses an intermediate housing that presses into the frame, which is the diameter Hambini measures. Not all the interference is transferred through the intermediate housing into the bearing outer race.
So nice you are able to help out ! Cheers
Did the oval chain ring play a part in screwing up the bottom bracket?
Two videos in two days, you are spoiling us.
Did the preload collar have a setscrew to maintain preload?
Certainly when I suffered working in a touring specialist bike shop the general rule was the more exotic and custom the frame the more of a total ball ache it was.
I'm glad this channel has found the same.
That and pretty much everything is made in the same factory.
That BB ho'e was absolute bottom bracket level execution b4 a 5 yr old fixx'd it. Thx for the good laughs, I do feel inclined to just send a frame for the entertainment value!! 😂
is there any bike or component you do recommend?
Thank you, I've learned a lot about shafts
That section view bug should be fixed in 2021, what version are you running?
@hambini, I'm genuinely curious why any sort of retention mechanism for the non-drive-side is omitted here. Your BB has a nice, tight fit to the BB shell and while it probably won't happen, isn't it possible that the BB could walk its way out the BB shell toward the drive-side? I should think a retention clip should be used here to mitigate the possibility of BB egress.
This is often confused, the lips on the edges of bottom brackets are an Axial STOP, they are not there to stop the thing falling out. The thing stopping it falling out are the radial forces from the interference fit.
I had an “exquisite “ “moment “ watching your video.👍🏻
my god prob the best outro yet! Great work as always. (pen is wkg gang)
I wonder if the frame's unround bottom bracket tube won't warp the Hambini shell.
You are the man! I enjoy your channel, keep up the good work!
The sixtyniner steel frame I got seems okay, but the carbon fork that came with it has excremental alignment for the road hydro brake caliper. Insta-rub when mounting new pads, every singe time.
Glad to see ya back
Me bottom bracket was reamed quite misaligned from both sides so that when the armed up sleeve was inserted it got stuck really hard. Removal was painful and left score marks and raw rubbed areas and penetration pitting. Now the chap tells me an oversized reaming is in order as if that would clear things up. When will the torture stop ?
I love Hambini's videos! A comedy channel based around crap bike QC, Beaut! I've seen it on my personal bikes over 40 years from misaligned forks, wrong spacers in BB's, even a rear triangle on a steel bike that was not straight. Thanks for calling out shite QC in the bike industry.
Blessings to all brothers and sisters running a 92mm wide Hambini BB on their mountainbikes
Did you increase the Qfactor with the new BB ?
No
Hambini keeping it real as always LOL somebody's gotta do it!
HELLOOOOO HAMBINI!! Where do you source your bearings? (or reccomend someone in the uk to purchase bearings)
www.hambini.com
@@Hambini thanks, I should have been more specific, looking to put new bearings in my full suspension bikes rear linkage
I've bought a full suspension frame straight from a chinese manufacturer and the bottom brackets shell was misaligned, oval and small. Pressing in the PF92 took a lot of force and the driveside outer edge of the shell cracked about a month of riding in. There was significant drag, the axle was discolored from bearings and it was creaking while pedaling.
To my great surprise they sent a replacement front triangle and it work fine now.
Hey Hambini, got a quick question: would buying aftermarket high quality bearings and using those in a run of the mill Shimano cup BB be a worthwile upgrade as far as resistance goes? Getting a one piece BB seems a bit overkill considering my frame isn't of the shite engineering variety, but I still would like to eek out a little more smoothness.
the key is the hole, fitting the most expensive bearing into a crap housing is a waste of time and money.
@@Hambini In my case it's a threaded Ti tube so it couldn't be THAT shite, I'm assuming.
Morning Hambini, how many total km do you have this year so far and are you still in contact with this sneaky Hag from Gnc?
I do about 80km on average every weekday. Who is GNC?
This fits with what I've heard. Among the mechanics I know, Niner is infamous for awful bottom bracket tolerances.
The whole exquisite raison d'etre of Niner was the innovation of slightly larger wheels.
I'm a retired machinist, now shop mechanic for fun.
I keep some high precision tools at work. I was wondering why press fit shit often sucks so much. I started measuring every press shit bb shell I serviced. NOT ONE example (out of more than 100) from numerous brands met the industrial tolerance requirements that bearing manufacturers call for. It doesn't matter what the frame cost. You CANNOT MOLD press fit bearing tolerances. They MUST BE MACHINED! Not only size requirement are at issue. But also ROUNDNESS and CONCENTRICITY between both bearings. Some shells were better and lots were much, much worse.
But NOT ONE that I've measured met standards accepted by engineers and machinists in the mechanical industry. This information isn't rocket science. Its published and available to all. Ive built and inspected stuff that flies in space as well as surgeon's instruments. I know what high quality means. I can identify it. Carbon bicycles aren't in the same quality universe. Sorry to say it....
I don't bother measuring them anymore. 'They is what they is!' If you've got pressfit shit, it's most likely gonna cost more to get it functioning decently.
Modern bicycle 'technology' is sort of a joke. Its simply job security and more sales for me!
@@rollinrat4850 Look and Time frame are supposedly decent at this though.
@@StringerBell50 I haven't seen a Time frame yet.
Ive worked on several Looks. I might refuse working on them again. Too many headaches. They're completely different than anything else I've wrenched on and incredibly labor intensive considering how simple a machine bicycles ought to be. The BBs ran very smoothly though, so I didn't get to inspect the shells.
Everything is proprietary on Looks. That's another aspect most mechanics despise about modern high end bikes. These Look's aero cable routing was completely idiotic, complex to the point of being 'Rube Goldbergish'. But that can be said for most aero routing through handlebars and stems. Whoever is designing these things, they're certainly not professional mechanics! I can't see the point in paying for that. Just to change headset bearings, you'd need to reroute all the cables or hydro hoses and bleed the brakes. That costs well over 5x as much as just servicing bearings. All to slip through the air a teeny tiny bit easier? From my POV, That's plain stupid unless you're a sponsored pro or rich. I wouldn't own such a bike if it was free. I'd sell it to another sucker!
I can't complain much though. Modern bike technology' (haha) is simply job security for me! I charge $2 per minute to work on this overpriced, under engineered shit. I work in one of the most affluent zip codes in the US. There's lots of those 'suckers born every minute' here!! They often believe their bicycles make them stronger or more skilled!
Ive helped build carbon satellite structures, aerospace components and surgeon's instruments all through my career. Now I'm sorta retired and just having fun at my 'job'. I was a mechanical inspector before as well. I know what actual 'high quality', QC, engineering and testing really means. The bike industry isn't fooling me at all. They don't impress me either. My best advice is to ignore marketing BS. It's no different than brainwashing, propaganda or fake news. I'll never buy carbon junk that my life depends upon. I know good quality would cost more than I could afford. Anyways, I'd just break it.
Hambini, I installed your BB86 necked bottom bracket in my bianchi xr4.. It seems to spin not as freely as when it was out of the bottom bracket. Is that normal?
it suggests the hole is undersized, did you measure it before? It will usually bed in after a few 100km Hambini
@@Hambini yes, it IS undersized
I have a trek remedy aluminium frame, and the drive side bearing was seized, i thought it was due to water ingress but i wonder if its because the outer race is being compressed due to a misalignment in the BB bore....I will have to investigate.
SRAM bb ?
@@chrisuhracing sram GXP
God, youre toast...
Outstanding! Your BB is a work of Art.
Does adding to the outboard dimension change the shifting indexing or the shifting alignment?
Good question. The new BB does seem to have taken the existing stance of the cranks and spindle into account. The biggest thing that's been done here is to simply widen the bearing stance with respect to the same "boost" crank spindle.
That said, there are other examples where shift indexing can be affected, and often it's down to the crank. I experienced this myself when I upgraded from a 105 5700 crank to a newer 105 R7000 unit. The R7000 unit sits about 2-3 mm more outboard, enough to require readjustment of the front derailleur because shifting outboard wasn't moving its cage enough to move the chain to the big ring. GRX 2x cranks supposedly have an even larger move outboard, big enough to require GRX's specific front derailleurs be used with them.
No it doesn't, the crank is in the same position that it was in before, the bearing position has moved on the new BB. Index remains the same
@@Hambini thanks!
You may be making me more intelligent than i already am. Another informative educational honest and entertaining spike into gobshittery. Well said.
Nice to see you working on a proper bike. 👍
He took ALL the exquisiteness out of that BB. Mental note: ”Exquisite” = ”shite”.
Yessssss Hambini is back.
How did you machine out the frame? Did you put it up on a mill or do you have jig to attach to the frame? I'm guessing because you you stopped the cut half way you came in from each side, how did you get the alignment when you reset the cut?
I expect you won't answer, trade secrets... but a nice piece of machining.
It's a bit of a technically Pain in the rear end process!
Its quite a complex process. It certainly can't be done in a proper manner that's affordable to most bicycle consumers. That's why they don't do these things.
If you really want to know I could explain, it's no secret. Its a regular manufacturing process similar to machining a weldment. But it's simply not going to happen in the profit driven bike industry.
You need to understand what high quality machined carbon structures actually cost.
Good man…I fit 3 of your 4 descriptors…still enjoyed the vlog…less sailor talk…(I secretly enjoy the sailor talk, but I reckon it can weaken the message)…most honest cycling analysis of kit on the web…best BB’s on the market…great to see you back.
Love the ending 🤣. This guy is amazing.
I have never missed a french 5 year old for so long
Lofl - Niner has finally made it to the big leagues!
There's a review of the 'niner rdo' (similar model here) on YT - and the reviewer noted a creaky BB...
I appreciate the investigation here
From the very first glimpse , when you initially lifted this nike in the table, was 😳 how anemically thin the BB body is. Looks as though first “jump” of any sort, the frame to snap in 2 at that exact point. 🤔
Nah, mate, carbon fibre don't care. That's why it is such a popular material. Most issues are very obviously on the QA side of things.
is basically a grandad frame with niner branding. no??
Another great video, continue the great work. Since Karen has robbed you of one of your most informative PowerPoint pages, I recommend you do the following. Create a blank graph scale for your next assessment, point where you think it falls on the graph, and let your viewers guess what adjective it falls between on the scale in the comments. There is one of you, many of us, Karen can't take us all on.
what bearings did you use in this BB to meet MTB shit conditions?
full sealed
I gotta get me a hairdresser. Much love as always Hambini!
I would love to see what are some good budget frames or bikes even I love the no nonsense look at it.
Did you increase the q factor on this though?
No
Bring back the scale!
Would like to see the machining process of the frames' bottom bracket shell. Great vid. Keep em coming
Seven bicycles CNC machine (threadmill) the bb shells on their extremely expensive custom titanium bikes. This is a very expensive process. A production quality CNC milling center might cost over $50k or far, far more. Ive worked on CNC machines costing well over a million dollars. Very high quality, but quite the overkill for something as simple as a mere bicycle.
Other high end brands might do similar, but I'm not aware of one.
In production bike manufacturing, a metal bb shell will be threaded before its welded into a frame. Its a thick enough tube, that heat distortion shouldn't be much of an issue IF proper welding procedures are used. Its also a pretty rare occurrence for even cheap threaded bb bicycles to have issues in this aspect and issues can usually be corrected.
On a properly manufactured frame, any thread distortion can be corrected with frame prep procedures after the frame is painted. You also want to install bearings on bare metal where no paint will mis align the bearings.
Carbon frames sometimes have metal bb shells bonded in, but it costs more, especially in a proper QC'd manner. This is becoming more common again, after a decade of proven industry failure with press fit shit.
In days long past, experienced mechanics assembling or servicing metal frames would chase the bb threads, face the outer edges of the shell, and ream and face the head tube. Every bearing interface was IN FACT, MACHINED after the frame was painted to ensure perfect bearing function and longevity. A high end frame's alignment was also inspected and corrected if necessary on a frame alignment table. This assures that the bike steers straight.
These are proven if 'old school' methods that have worked perfectly for decades when frames were manufactured to higher quality levels.
As a retired machinist I know for a fact these old school methods are indeed machining procedures! The machinery is simply human driven and far more affordable, by any small privately owned bike shop.
What is ironic is that any decent shop will have these threading, facing and reaming tools. Perhaps even some alignment tools! What is also ironic is these tools cannot be used on 'modern' carbon press fit shit frames. So, unless you know what you're really buying and can determine quality, IT IS what it is. You just might purchase a problem. Then you can perhaps contact Hambini.
What is even more ironic is that many young, entry level mechanics have little, if any idea what these tools are used for.
@@rollinrat4850 Thank you.
@@rollinrat4850 I was referring to Hambinis machining to rectify this particular Niner carbon BB. I have not heard of Seven Bicycles.
@@sarah-janelowrie2571 Hambini only machines BBs, sometimes custom sized, then presses them into the shell.
A few times I've seen him use a flapper wheel in the shell to remove a bit of material to achieve a better fit. This isn't a very precision method and it's not considered precision machining. Hand grinding at best.
Precision machining (boring) a frame would require building prohibitively expensive custom work holding fixtures unique to each frame shape.
This is why most manufacturers will never machine their shells. It cuts into their profit and the majority of consumers could never afford that added cost. BUT, the only way to achieve proper interference fits (press fit) is through machining. This is mechanical engineering fact. Not to mention precision inspection is required by both machinists and QC inspectors or perhaps skilled mechanics upon installation. This is how we did similar operations at an airline where I serviced various aircraft components. Its a critical procedure and requires high skill. Therefore it's expensive. Machine shop time probably costs well over $150/hr now.
Again, if manufacturers truly cared, they'd bond in precision metal sleeves (these can be CNC'd far more economically) for the bearings to be either pressed in or as I said a threaded system is much more simple and much more practical to service in bike shops. A precision metal bearing shell is basically what Hambini offers.
But bike manufacturers need to figure out how to bond metal into carbon better. This is a very common design in the carbon satellite industry I worked in. Several bike companies are returning to threaded standards after a decade of proven pressfit shit failure. Quite a few pro teams use threaded frames. Santa Cruz bicycles uses threaded BBs mostly as long as they've existed and has never had such issues with BBs.
While Hambini does high quality and well thought out work, it's not inexpensive by any means. Expensive, supposedly 'high end' frames should never require this sort of 'upgrade' in the 1st place. Therefore it's my opinion all these BB upgrades are little more than bandaids for very poorly manufactured frames that are simply not worth the cost to make them right. But suckers are born every minute who get stuck with this annoying junk.
In over 50 years of use, I've never had BB issues in both expensive custom and cheap production metal threaded bb frames. Frames that I've prepped, installed, maintained and ridden hard. Not one single issue besides normal wear or water/dirt contamination.
Pressfit shit, not to mention just about any bike issue you might name is a result of poor or non existant quality control, ignorance, poor engineering, bad design and or incompetent assembly. Most bike consumers generally ignore bearings until it too late.
High end and even entry level bikes used to be incredibly simple, easy to maintain, smooth and reliable for many years, given minimal maintenance and competent assembly. Now they're simply job security! That's the bright side for me! More complexity, (more crap) more service, more sales, MORE PROFIT!
@@rollinrat4850 flapper wheel. Ha cool.
How did you ream hole?
Has he ever reviewed a '70s or '80s steel vintage frame? I'd be real curious what those old Fuji's look like.
Fuji's were made in Japan back in the day. There were lots of excellent steel Japanese bike manufacturers way back when. Ive owned production Bridgestones, Miyatas Panasonic and others over the years. I still look for used ones.
Most US or Japanese made entry level production bikes before '90 were quite good. Taken care of, these frames can last a lifetime!
Historically, after the 1st mtb bike boom in the late '80s, corporate greed took over and quality control took a shit.
I still ride an '80s Miyata fixed gear cyclocross bike almost every day to commute and ride my local mtb trails. I love Japanese made products almost as much as my local US made stuff. There are older US and Japanese made parts such as Sugino, Nitto, White Industries, Paul's Comp and Phil Wood on my old 'Crossafix'.
Fuji's were made in Japan back in the day. There were lots of excellent steel Japanese bike manufacturers way back when. Ive owned production Bridgestones, Miyatas Panasonic and others over the years. I still look for used ones.
Most US or Japanese made entry level production bikes before '90 were quite good. Taken care of, these frames can last a lifetime!
Historically, after the 1st mtb bike boom in the late '80s, corporate greed took over and quality control took a shit.
I still ride an '80s Miyata fixed gear cyclocross bike almost every day to commute and ride my local mtb trails. I love Japanese made products almost as much as my local US made stuff. There are older US and Japanese made parts such as Sugino, Nitto, White Industries, Paul's Comp and Phil Wood on my old 'Crossafix'.
Hambini, have you ever taken into account that rider input might also be a contributing factor in these supposed mis-alignments? For instance I almost always lift, wheelie up, bunny hop with my right leg pushing forward on the pedal stroke to aid in the lift. Couldn't repeated stronger inputs from dominant leg play a factor?
That's even worse. If a regular rider can deform an exquisitely made frame.
The bike engineering should take factor that MTBs are being abused. They droo from heights
A lot of Niner suspension engineering is ripping off other brands, especially defunct ones who aren't around to sue for having their designs stolen so it doesn't surprise me that they couldn't be bothered to ensure good quality control on something as simple as a hardtail frame.
Abysmal is such a good word. Pertaining to the Abyss!!
And I was about buy one. This puts a stop for me. Hambini, could you please review the Santa Cruz Highball? Love your analysis, man.
My shop is a large Santa Cruz dealer. We are owned by the corporation that also owns Santa Cruz. My boss loved his Highball. They make excellent bikes for hardcore MTBers. I know quite a few people completely satisfied with Santa Cruz. I ride with people who work there and I'm friends with the guy building their show and team bikes. He also managed their old wheel building shop. Im also a pro wheel builder. I've serviced hundreds of Santa Cruz's. I owned a Tazmon, their very 1st bike. Ive met Rob Roskopp several times and even tried some of his personal bikes long before I wrenched in the bike biz.
I rarely see mechanical or quality issues on Santa Cruz's. Their warranty and customer service is excellent. Its the only bike my shop offers that I'd even consider buying.
My thing these days is long distance underbiking, bikepacking and custom metal frames. I want to KNOW who builds my frame, shake their hands and perhaps help out in the build process. I'm currently learning to braze and weld.
I used to work as a machinist and mechanical inspector building carbon satellite components. I will cut up plastic crashed frames to inspect lay ups when I get the chance. Ive never had the opportunity to cut up a Santa Cruz carbon frame.
Nevertheless, I'll probably never buy a carbon bike. I'm too much of a perfectionist and I know how Asian manufacturers compromise for profit. Nobody's fooling me. I personally don't care for the carbon ride quality either. On the other hand I've never seen a broken Santa Cruz frame besides the aluminum swing arm on my buddy's Nomad after over 10 years of insane abuse. This guy rides his bikes everywhere and just like he rides his motocross bikes! Since Santa Cruz no longer stocked these swingarms, they gave him a brand new Nomad, after over 10 years!!
Modern engineering explains why Retro is SO popular, the good stuff has lasted and continues to deliver, the shite has gone to god, apart from 70s Campagnolo cranks , most of the components seem like they will last for ever especially early Dura Ace, what the industry needs are some Gutsy manufacturers who will go against the trend and produce products that will last, bikes & parts produces from 1972-1998 are the Gold standard and will no doubt attain Gold prices if things continue as they are.
I have a 1999 Giant Yukon SE (alloy frame) hardtail that is still utterly rock-solid! Upgraded to a Deore crankset and FD the first year I owned it, but beyond that, essentially nothing else in the way of upgrades. It's become more of a gravel bike than anything else in recent years, and does the job beautifully. 26" wheels and rim brakes, so "completely obsolete" in the eyes of some, but I love it.
Bike component companies realized a long time ago that there's no point in making durable parts if wannabe racers want to count grams and "upgrade" every other month. Aesthetic, reliable, durable and user serviceable parts exist and continue to be made but they are a niche product. You have to look a Rivendell or Velo Orange or similar brands.
Question - what's preventing the machined BB from working its way out of the BB shell over time?
ffff.... friction.
A proper interference fit, and sometimes a thin layer of loctite adhesive.
@@truantray which is kinda friction.
@@OYeahan adhesion is fundamentally different from friction.
@@Skooteh hmm but with carbon fiber you usually use Loctite to fill the gaps, not to have adhesion as adhesion might damage the composite upon BB removal
Great videos and analysis.
However it's rule not ruler.
Or did you say ruler on purpose to see who would bite?
How good are those stainless Parker pens!
The funniest YT-channel. Gotta luv this mechanic. "Keep it up, wiff yer hairdresser".😆
Facts are facts; the negativity is simply your interpretation of the presentation. If you need to just feel good, watch Disney or a TV evangalist..
I have niner rlt ,bottom bracket pf30, I had changed three bottom bracket, but still remains the problem.
To quote Ronnie Coleman: Everyone wants to make high end bikes, but nobody wants to do any high end QC.
Can you check elite wheels?
I love this guys humour with tech speak. Just wish there was not so my "shite" ads.