Nice vid, but you forgot to mention about unstaling the dodges. Is it time based? Or do I need to attack to unstale? If it is time based, how much time? Any way to unstale faster? etc.
Beefy does doing the airdodge into a tech add to the increasing airdodge lag? It seems like it makes teching easier but doing it that early making your rolls and dodges laggier may make it an issue.
@@dorshaldoes5055 You never want to do that except to grab the ledge if you think someone tries to gimp you. If you use your airdodge you just go too low for mac to recover. It might be good on walled stages so you could airdodge > walljump > up b. But its very risky.
You should probably clarify. DAD is used for trying to recover off-stage. Only use NAD to actually dodge attacks or cancel chargeable moves after you've already jumped (for instance, if you accidentally start charging w/out double jump. Samus and Mewtwo should be able to make it back if you're careful about the timing).
@@luiss428 I actually used it again today and it saved me another stock ;) I like how even if Elwind is completely used up, using up-b will still cause Robin to get a little bit of lift, then air-directional dodging can help get to the stage.
Sorry, you're too broke to watch the actual video; it redirected you to another video. The only reason I am able to read your comment is because my translator speaks broke. Smh
Why do people want this game to turn into melee so much . That’s what we have melee for , we can go enjoy it and give the team a chance to create a new game that’s the whole point
So I was messing around in the labs with Shulk. Don't know if ya'll know this, BSD, but while Shulk is in Jump art, Shulk's airdodge causes him to fall for about 14/15 blocks.
Interesting stuff. I didn't know much about using Air Dodges for recovery other than "You better make sure you actually grab the ledge with that Directional Air Dodge or it's bye-bye."
You can use Directional Airdodges to waveland to the ground after a midair footstool, and if your opponent doesn’t tech you can jablock them. The last hit of Mario’s d-air at extremely low percents is an example
Airdodging down (at least for peach) definitely keeps you in free fall for a further distance. If peach upward airdodges from short hopping from ledge she can still recover after. If she airdodges down she will be too far down to recover even with double jump. I was really confused when this happened cause I remembered this video saying the distance was from where you start not where the airdodge ends, but it doesn't seem to be that exact at least with Peach.
SÁlv16 G. Not the most useful, but it’s fun to do. It’s like that one thing in Sm4sh where you could like, running into the ledge and never fall off if you like, do a thing.
I love that air dodging has so much lag now. Makes it super useful onstage, and promotes and rewards edgeguarding when offstage. Much better than Brawl and 4.
I have accidentally done a thing where I fastfall through a platform and then airdodge back onto it, seemingly lagless. this would be something to definetly look into
Thank God for this video. You rock. Never thought about air dodging to the ledge to dodge an upB and then ledge Trump. I can't tell you how annoyed I was every time I tried to punish K.Rule's upB to ledge and got hit by that FREAKING HELICOPTER! lol
*_I had to learn the hard way that neutral air dodge would be my friend in avoiding a ledge guarding opponent. My first directional air dodge would be my last._*
honestly I hope Nintendo gives us back wavelanding off platforms, or just make more stuff in general edge-cancellable. I mean I'd love wavedashing, but it's not really necessary.
Regarding the dodge-while-below-a-platform, you don't have to be at the peak of your jump. As long as roughly half your bodylenght is through a platform you'll get "teleported" from (pretty far) below the platform on top of it when using a downwards aerial dodge. Or at least, that's with the characters I tested it with. You can also fall through a platform, wait till you almost cross some character specific boundairy, airdodge down but actually go back up to the platform without using a jump. Zelda is pretty lenient in that regard (a lot of frames in which you can get back up the platform), Ganondorf is pretty tricky and Bayonetta has only a very small amount of frames in which it is possible. I haven't tested with more characters, though.
The tech you showed at 6:49 looks like a bug to me. We may see this getting patched in the future. Anyways amazing video. You only missed that you can't fall off ledges while wavelanding but everything else is covered in this video. Great stuff, keep it up!
Could you make a video about the initial roll frame punish? I never fail to get hit while starting a roll and I'd just like to know the technical side of it.
You could also fake out people by using your double jump, then immediatly use a nuetral airdodge making it _look_ like an airdodge up, but it will have significantly less end lag.
I actually found something out about the airdodges when I was in training mode messing around with ness. If you airdodge to the ledge 4 times without touching the stage the 5th time you try it will not let you snap to the ledge, its not very useful to know but just thought id say something.
Well that's just because theres a mechanic where you can't regrab ledge 5 times in a row without touching the stage. That has nothing to do with the airdodge specifically.
PurpleFreezer Yeah, I will never be good at edge guarding, but it is so much fun to watch. Edge guarding wasn’t so great in Sm4sh... Sure, you could do goofy shit, but it really only happened if there was a super good player against a shitty player.
That explains a lot... I was wondering why I act out of directional airdodge as a character like Bowser so much sooner than with some other characters (Ultimate buffed Bowser's fall speed big-time). I figured it was just a very character-specific trait, but then, that's not quite the case, is it? And using it to trump, or to feign a trump, that sounds potentially useful against characters that are hard to edgeguard. I should remember that...
Awesome video! Please make one covering moves/projectiles that turn you around when you get hit by them. It seems to be pretty random to me, and can be frustrating. I'd like to understand how it works better.
Can you talk a little bit more about the staleness of rolls, air dodges and spot dodges? Do they automatically unstale after a time? Or do they get pushed out of some list like attacks do? Or do they stay stale for the entire match?
@@Nyxael5845 Yeah thats's true, but let's say you are pretty high over the stage and you'll be able to recover, in that case dodging downwards would make you be able to act again sooner. But I agree that if you arent sure if you'll make it back then dodging towards the stage if you really must dodge is the best option
It depends really, you can get a boost in recovery but if your opponent sees that you have used your air dodge they can capitalize and you end up being open to attacks. I only use directional air dodging as a last resort if I am playing characters that have bad recoveries like Ganondorf. Mario is my main, and he has no trouble getting back to the stage if he is sent high because his Fireball can intercept most attempts to edgeguard (I say most because some attacks out prioritize Fireball and I get hit in return).
Hmm, I think the video contradicts this, he said early on that it's actually a timer and that's why it's ok if you're pushed up or something. It's just that the timer is set such that it is equal to ~10 blocks at natural fall for each character.
@@pablo8286 Yes, airdodging down has the least Lag of all Directional Airdodges, but if you really just want the invincibility with as little Lag possible, please consider just using the neutral Airdodge. It pains me to see people online turn into punching bags offstage because they don't get that.
Sometimes i forget how long the lag is, I just SD myself thinking that I would be able to recover after a down airdodge at platform level, I went down all to the limit.
Can you guys cover get up options from ledge? It seems like standard get up is very easily punished in some cases (not just one frame of vulnerability as I've heard). Perhaps get up options stale too?
Really should have included the cross up trick. Where you air dodge to the other side of the character since you can't run through them. Great video though.
So if you are in the very top corner and you want a little extra distance, the best way to get the most difference is to airdodge directly horizontally?
How does staling work with dodges? Are the dodges stored on the same staling list as attack’s, or is there a separate list? If there’s a separate list, how do you un-stale dodges?
Hello beefysmashdoods, theres a question about directional air dodge that it might be interesting for you The directional air dodge distance varies between characters? Sometimes i play i feel the directional air dodge of yoshi travels further than snake's one for example, that might be because directional air dodge maybe depends on how much momentum you have? Perhaps it depends on character air speed? Or maybe it's just my imagination... So, can you solve it? Thanks you are the best!
Sorry can someone help me I understand that directional airdodge can kill you earlier when you've been knocked towards the blast zone but if you directional airdodge up would it still kill you earlier?
Anyone knows how the Bayonetta airdodge works? Like, in which frames it activates bat within, and if you can bat within to a different direction that the one you airdodged to?
This video is long overdue, but we finally got the time to cover airdodges. Hope you like it!
I love roll
@Beefy Smash Doods when is that replay vid comin
Nice vid, but you forgot to mention about unstaling the dodges. Is it time based? Or do I need to attack to unstale? If it is time based, how much time? Any way to unstale faster? etc.
Beefy does doing the airdodge into a tech add to the increasing airdodge lag? It seems like it makes teching easier but doing it that early making your rolls and dodges laggier may make it an issue.
Gui I assume it works like the roll staling, which is time based. Not sure exactly how much time though.
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO! I WANTED TO LOOK INTO ALL THIS STUFF BUT IT WAS KILLING ME HOW BORING IT WAS. BSD THE REAL MVP
Oh were you, highly doubt it.
Wassup GimR! And yea, shoutout to BSD. They are awesome
13geeky ?????
@@13geeky why you mad over a check mark 😂
Every video you guys put out adds to my game so much (including the "hitting your head against stages" one), thanks so much BSD!
PLEASE use your non directional air dodges off stage when you need to.
DX19 - y
It has less lag making it easier to recover.
@@Mewtic1 little mac could still use the vertical airdodge time to time
@@dorshaldoes5055 You never want to do that except to grab the ledge if you think someone tries to gimp you.
If you use your airdodge you just go too low for mac to recover. It might be good on walled stages so you could airdodge > walljump > up b. But its very risky.
You should probably clarify. DAD is used for trying to recover off-stage. Only use NAD to actually dodge attacks or cancel chargeable moves after you've already jumped (for instance, if you accidentally start charging w/out double jump. Samus and Mewtwo should be able to make it back if you're careful about the timing).
But I want to techroll down walls. Come on Sakurai!
Andrew Prahst hell yea brother
Andrew Prahst finally some people who understand me
techroll down walls to the ground and as soon as you touch the ground roll again.
@@scallopy7546 _sonic theme starts playing as you just keep rolling forever_
So I just checked, and apparently the “airdodge off stage and get your jumps back” part got patched out ):
I was trying it for so long. Thanks dude
8:23 That is exactly what happend to M2K.
Ok, but what about the new buffer system?
Ness in Pajamas, just need to hold for the duration and it buffers. Kinda annoying if you‘re use to just inputting or use c-stick aerials
Son Pham Don't worry, the buffer is 10000 years long
This contains all the info you need to know about the buffer system: smashboards.com/threads/ultimate-buffering-system.465269/
you mean "mashing up b huh?? so you wwnt to do getupattack right??"
Trash
Directional air dodges are useful for robin so you can save your Elwind
You can even use it after using up Elwind which saved me a stock once ;)
@@caelestis6439 thanks for this info
@@luiss428 I actually used it again today and it saved me another stock ;)
I like how even if Elwind is completely used up, using up-b will still cause Robin to get a little bit of lift, then air-directional dodging can help get to the stage.
A Lockwood It’s also useful for Chrom to give him actual horizontal recovery distance.
I've read Airpods instead of Airdodges and thought this was about memes, still watched and enjoyed though
Sorry, you're too broke to watch the actual video; it redirected you to another video. The only reason I am able to read your comment is because my translator speaks broke. Smh
@@nitez2730 I'm only a level 1 crook :(
Airpod mechanics
That's the quality content I subscribed for!
YOU CAN AIR DODGE FINAL SMASHES
Waveland....the land of the wave
You can airdodge into the ground in one direction and tech-roll in the other
The ultimate fake-out
You guys makes some of the best smash videos. Great video production, scripted well, researched well, straight to the point. Just great. Thank you
Nice video, I love the transitions you made for this one! Simple but it just looks so clean to me
Why do people want this game to turn into melee so much . That’s what we have melee for , we can go enjoy it and give the team a chance to create a new game that’s the whole point
People are asking for more movement options in a game about movement there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that.
I don't want it to be melee I just want it to be as fluid and skill based as possible.
having wavedashing dosent make a game melee
the airdodge up to regain double jump was patched out
2:43 That transition was fucking godlike
I'm amazed that this 2 year old video about one of the most basic mechanics of Smash Bros has still taught me something new.
Great video! Also I love the new format!
Snake looks like he's ready to unleash the biggest fucking whip when he directional air dodges
So I was messing around in the labs with Shulk. Don't know if ya'll know this, BSD, but while Shulk is in Jump art, Shulk's airdodge causes him to fall for about 14/15 blocks.
Wow, I'm seriously impressed with how this video looks. I love the presentation! Please make more informative videos in this style.
Air dodging in ultimate is more likely to get you killed than help you.
Biiiig facts. You basically a sitting duck if you're off stage and someone is edge gaurding you. God forbid your character has a shitty recovery
Ganon players agree
Melee airdodges : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Interesting stuff.
I didn't know much about using Air Dodges for recovery other than "You better make sure you actually grab the ledge with that Directional Air Dodge or it's bye-bye."
This is very helpful for understanding the new air dodging! Thanks BSD!
Really nice transitions! Keep the good stuff coming :)
Ok! I got how the air doges and land doges stale... But how do they unstale?
Mario Raul Freitas you have to wait
I'm not sure of the exact period of time, but I know for sure that every time your re spawn after losing a stock they are all fresh.
by imputing other moves until it becomes unstale. Not sure how many more moves. 10 maybe?
They have a short time window to refresh them. IIRC, about 5 seconds is enough to refresh.
@@Medabee8 airdodges wouldn't be apart of that counter.
That airdodge up from the ground is gonna lead to some cool mixups.
Did i hear 10 frames of landing lag? Thanks for giving me a new method of performing dial storage on shulk.
This is actually pretty useful information. I've been trying to wave land, but kept messing up, and I didn't know why. Now I know.
BSD i love your videos!! they are the only ones that ACTUALLY improve my game
You can use Directional Airdodges to waveland to the ground after a midair footstool, and if your opponent doesn’t tech you can jablock them. The last hit of Mario’s d-air at extremely low percents is an example
nice video! and congrats to vyQ for yesterdays win! ;)
Thanks for talking about this. I was struggling to understand how airdodge works now.
Loving the polished presentation
Doing the Lord's work with the informative vids! Keep it up!
Excellent video. Concise and informative. Well done.
Does anybody know when the stalequeue for dodges in general gets refreshed? Or are dodges and attacks in the same list?
Dark Yoshi 🤔
Idk.
i think for dodges it’s on a timer
I can see the jump refresh being really useful on Battlefield stages, as an alternative evasive option for characters that have safe aerial options.
Thank you I finally found what I wanted
I swear I fucking gasmed every time they used that transition
6:50 this neat trick doesn't seem to work anymore as of patch 2.0
RIP
So does that mean airdodging down has less endinglag than airdodging up?
Yes. The only difference is neutral airdodge, which has less input delay after
Airdodging down (at least for peach) definitely keeps you in free fall for a further distance. If peach upward airdodges from short hopping from ledge she can still recover after. If she airdodges down she will be too far down to recover even with double jump. I was really confused when this happened cause I remembered this video saying the distance was from where you start not where the airdodge ends, but it doesn't seem to be that exact at least with Peach.
Love your technical videos. I may not be a master player, but it's definitely fun to know
I personally like running into an opponent and when I'm close to him wavedash back, it's a cute mindgame
SÁlv16 G.
Not the most useful, but it’s fun to do.
It’s like that one thing in Sm4sh where you could like, running into the ledge and never fall off if you like, do a thing.
Rip wavedashing we will miss you ❤️
It's not gone. It'll always be in Melee
No I won't
always will miss that mechanic
Rip nothing. IT's still alive and well in the only game that matters.
@@TheFleeingPhoenix mario golf, toadstool tour?
I love that air dodging has so much lag now. Makes it super useful onstage, and promotes and rewards edgeguarding when offstage. Much better than Brawl and 4.
Tippssy
Especially Sm4sh.
Fucking rollers-
I have accidentally done a thing where I fastfall through a platform and then airdodge back onto it, seemingly lagless. this would be something to definetly look into
Thank God for this video. You rock. Never thought about air dodging to the ledge to dodge an upB and then ledge Trump. I can't tell you how annoyed I was every time I tried to punish K.Rule's upB to ledge and got hit by that FREAKING HELICOPTER! lol
*_I had to learn the hard way that neutral air dodge would be my friend in avoiding a ledge guarding opponent. My first directional air dodge would be my last._*
This video made my opponent buffer a directional airdodge offstage to their death.
Thanks, BSD!
Great vid, great structure, great visuals!
Amazing video as always
The ability to restore your mid-air jump and air-dodge by air-dodging upward just before you land could be good for fake-outs.
honestly I hope Nintendo gives us back wavelanding off platforms, or just make more stuff in general edge-cancellable. I mean I'd love wavedashing, but it's not really necessary.
Regarding the dodge-while-below-a-platform, you don't have to be at the peak of your jump. As long as roughly half your bodylenght is through a platform you'll get "teleported" from (pretty far) below the platform on top of it when using a downwards aerial dodge. Or at least, that's with the characters I tested it with. You can also fall through a platform, wait till you almost cross some character specific boundairy, airdodge down but actually go back up to the platform without using a jump.
Zelda is pretty lenient in that regard (a lot of frames in which you can get back up the platform), Ganondorf is pretty tricky and Bayonetta has only a very small amount of frames in which it is possible. I haven't tested with more characters, though.
The tech you showed at 6:49 looks like a bug to me. We may see this getting patched in the future.
Anyways amazing video. You only missed that you can't fall off ledges while wavelanding but everything else is covered in this video.
Great stuff, keep it up!
Could you make a video about the initial roll frame punish? I never fail to get hit while starting a roll and I'd just like to know the technical side of it.
You could also fake out people by using your double jump, then immediatly use a nuetral airdodge making it _look_ like an airdodge up, but it will have significantly less end lag.
I actually found something out about the airdodges when I was in training mode messing around with ness. If you airdodge to the ledge 4 times without touching the stage the 5th time you try it will not let you snap to the ledge, its not very useful to know but just thought id say something.
Well that's just because theres a mechanic where you can't regrab ledge 5 times in a row without touching the stage. That has nothing to do with the airdodge specifically.
Great video as always :)
Amazing video. Well done guys
Edge guarding is my favorite smash mechanic. You can probably see why I like smash ultimate so much, then.
PurpleFreezer
Yeah, I will never be good at edge guarding, but it is so much fun to watch.
Edge guarding wasn’t so great in Sm4sh...
Sure, you could do goofy shit, but it really only happened if there was a super good player against a shitty player.
Awesome video, I learned a lot.
Thank u so much! This clarifies stuff a lot!
That explains a lot... I was wondering why I act out of directional airdodge as a character like Bowser so much sooner than with some other characters (Ultimate buffed Bowser's fall speed big-time). I figured it was just a very character-specific trait, but then, that's not quite the case, is it?
And using it to trump, or to feign a trump, that sounds potentially useful against characters that are hard to edgeguard. I should remember that...
Super useful thanks for the tips n tricks
one of the most helpful videos ever
Also you can fake dropping trough a platform by dropping trough and immidiately air dodging down
Sorry for my english
Cool to know.
A new kind of hard reads
Your English is good enough and you only bring needless attention to it by saying "sorry".
@@fernandobanda5734 "trough"
"immidiately"
Can you write it in correct english for me? Thanks
Awesome video! Please make one covering moves/projectiles that turn you around when you get hit by them. It seems to be pretty random to me, and can be frustrating. I'd like to understand how it works better.
Can you talk a little bit more about the staleness of rolls, air dodges and spot dodges? Do they automatically unstale after a time? Or do they get pushed out of some list like attacks do? Or do they stay stale for the entire match?
I learned so much from this. Thank you!
So if you really need to airdodge offstage you mostly want to do a downwards airdodge, since you'll cover that 10 block distance faster right?
I prefer having a horizontal boost to aid my recovery rather than a downward boost. Air dodging downward offstage is freaking suicide.
@@Nyxael5845 Yeah thats's true, but let's say you are pretty high over the stage and you'll be able to recover, in that case dodging downwards would make you be able to act again sooner. But I agree that if you arent sure if you'll make it back then dodging towards the stage if you really must dodge is the best option
It depends really, you can get a boost in recovery but if your opponent sees that you have used your air dodge they can capitalize and you end up being open to attacks.
I only use directional air dodging as a last resort if I am playing characters that have bad recoveries like Ganondorf.
Mario is my main, and he has no trouble getting back to the stage if he is sent high because his Fireball can intercept most attempts to edgeguard (I say most because some attacks out prioritize Fireball and I get hit in return).
Hmm, I think the video contradicts this, he said early on that it's actually a timer and that's why it's ok if you're pushed up or something.
It's just that the timer is set such that it is equal to ~10 blocks at natural fall for each character.
@@pablo8286 Yes, airdodging down has the least Lag of all Directional Airdodges, but if you really just want the invincibility with as little Lag possible, please consider just using the neutral Airdodge.
It pains me to see people online turn into punching bags offstage because they don't get that.
So if u do a regular air dodge (like smash brawl and 4) u won't get the lag
Awesome Guide: You are AMAZING. thanks. and good comparison to melee :) thanks
Sometimes i forget how long the lag is, I just SD myself thinking that I would be able to recover after a down airdodge at platform level, I went down all to the limit.
Can you guys cover get up options from ledge? It seems like standard get up is very easily punished in some cases (not just one frame of vulnerability as I've heard). Perhaps get up options stale too?
They need to adjust the buffering system so it's harder to get a directional air dodge when you meant to tech but were too late.
Really should have included the cross up trick. Where you air dodge to the other side of the character since you can't run through them. Great video though.
Thank you this is very helpful
Remember my fellow sonic and mega mains. You can use directional air dodge to add onto our recoveries.
indeed
So if you are in the very top corner and you want a little extra distance, the best way to get the most difference is to airdodge directly horizontally?
Love y'all!
This vid helped a lot thanks
Well that explains why Mewtwo is left wide open after a air dodge. Being floaty is a pain
Very useful. Thanks beef doods
How does staling work with dodges? Are the dodges stored on the same staling list as attack’s, or is there a separate list? If there’s a separate list, how do you un-stale dodges?
Airdodging up before hitting ground/platform can avoid RCO lag whooo~
Excellent work !
This was great thank you
With falcon you can wall jump under the ledge then airdoge on stage. Not sure if that's safe or not
On point as always
Hello beefysmashdoods, theres a question about directional air dodge that it might be interesting for you
The directional air dodge distance varies between characters? Sometimes i play i feel the directional air dodge of yoshi travels further than snake's one for example, that might be because directional air dodge maybe depends on how much momentum you have? Perhaps it depends on character air speed? Or maybe it's just my imagination... So, can you solve it? Thanks you are the best!
Sorry can someone help me I understand that directional airdodge can kill you earlier when you've been knocked towards the blast zone but if you directional airdodge up would it still kill you earlier?
I love your documentary voice
6:01 am I the only one that is genuinely impressed that Ryu’s back air hit, with the way he is positioned I find it impossible to do
Anyone knows how the Bayonetta airdodge works? Like, in which frames it activates bat within, and if you can bat within to a different direction that the one you airdodged to?