BMW VANOS and Timing Chain INPA Diagnostics
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Ever wondered how the Vanos units are doing and if your timing chain is stretching? What about that rattily valve train in your BMW Engine? Here's how to find out using INPA diagnostics. I go through each page of INPA diagnostics for the valve train and explain what the values mean.
I also explain the most important page for seeing how much wear there is in the timing chains, guides and tensioners. These diagnostics are for all BMW engines with Vanos and/or Valvetronic systems.
Timm's store: www.amazon.co.uk/shop/timmsbm... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
This channel is a goldmine for information on these older v8s, very valuable.
Glad you think so!
I have to say your knowledge is fantastic on these videos.
I appreciate that!
Oh this is gold, being 22 I appreciate this so much
Thanks again Timm, I have he INPA and love learning how to understand what I see.
Great to hear!
Really good vid Tim many thanks helps me with inpa on my z4 3.0 e89. Don’t retire anytime soon. Steve.
Glad to help!
That was very interesting. Nice explanation of a complex process. Enjoying your videos.
Glad you enjoyed it!
You deserve much more likes and subscribers for precious information you provide. Thank you for your effort
So nice of you Michal!
Excellent video! I very much appreciate your work here. Many thanks.
You are welcome!
This helped me so much, been trying to get my head round all this for ages, and Timm as always you have explained it perfectly!
Timm you have helped me keep my E31 alive for the last 13 years...I recall the first fix was the CD changer from your website...and all these years on now your videos are absolutely supporting me to keep my E31 and E63 alive...thank you sincerely for doing what you do for the BMW community!
Happy to help Michael!
thank you🎉… used your helpfull video to diagnose a reduced engine power message after valve cover reseal on my 645ci,,,, great cars but need alot of love!
My pleasure!
Love your videos Timm. Great explanation of the Valvetronic system.
I guess one positive of the UK PlanDemic lockdown is we get more educational videos to watch.
Unfortunately I still have to work or you would get more!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation I take it that playing live music is not your main source of income?
Thank you for this video! I will try to raise the valve opening at my N62. Everything runs fine, except sometimes (doesn’t matter if motor is hot or cold) the idle is extremely rough. Rpm stay fixed, it’s just extremely shaky. I’ve already changed the membranes, cleaned the vanos valves, checked for leaks… nothing.If I step very slightly on the gas pedal in idle and raise it for 50 rpm everything runs smoothly.
Very informative as usual Tim i have a N52 engine but still invaluable info....
Glad to help, and yes, I should have said that this was pertinent for all BMW's with variable valve timing and valvetronic!
Great video, thank you
Glad you liked it!
Hello Timm! I love your channel and your work. Always happy and informative. I have a BMW 740 iL 1999 with a M62TUB44 engine and I want to buy some kind of scan tool. From my experience there are things like Carly and so on but will it work on my car? Am I right to say that you need to have both the OBD contact on the centre console and the round contact with all the pins under the bonnet connected to be able to read codes and delete service lights. I read English very well so the software doesn´t have to be in my native language. Pls share your thoughts.
Thanks Timm. My N62 camshaft adaptations are 130 and 134 also. Always seemed off but the engine is smooth as silk. At 125000 miles you should be planning for water pump, alternator, and upper radiator hose. Heater valve and auxilary water pump also. Wahler makes a 101 degree thermostat now which can take some stress off the cooling system components and gaskets.
Thanks Jason - as a general rule, apart from regular servicing I ignore everything else until it gets louder than the radio!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Ha. The Logic 7 audio really helps! You pretty much forget about all the tandem oil pump noises and such going on and get on with it.
Hi Tim keep up the great work and thank you for the clear explanation of the complex valvetronic/ vanos system. I currently have an undiagnosed misfire with my N62B48 and I compared my values to yours and the only difference was the disa volt reading 0.95 compared to your 4.99? Mine increases as I depress the throttle. Any thoughts please? Thanks Clint
I'll have to investigate that Clint, I didn't think the DISA changed much unless actually driving on the road under load....
Hay Timm this is Alvin your number 1 fan. Wow after looking at this video I can become a Certified BMW technician. Great information to have. Also I order 2 new crankcase vent valves. I discovered that the new ones don't have the nipple for the hose on the black cap. Do I need to use my old cap, with the new rubber Insert?
That's probably the best plan Alvin - keep safe!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
Thanks Timm. You and your wife be safe.
Hi Timm, great video! With INPA following this process my 650i is hovering around the limit of 80 on the camshafts adaption page for the adaption output bank 2 (top right). Some issues I have are low speed hesitation under load, and often random misfires and cylinder shutoff after a cold start. I have ruled out solenoids, vacuum leaks and a few other things.. what do you think? Thanks!
Hello Tom, if the camshaft adaptations are getting close then change the chain tensioners - there are two, one for each bank
Extremely interesting Timm, thank you. Can you suggest a good source for INPA? My version only goes up to the E60.
Thanks Martin, the main problem is that the sellers just don't last long - BMW knobbles them quite quickly (they own INPA). I have always got my INPA when I buy the diagnostic cables - last time from BM Cables - but they are long gone.
I have a rough idle when in drive in my 2007 750i what could it be? I did spark plugs it helped a little bit what other causes rough idle only in drive not in park it idles fine in park just shakes at stop lights and its embarrassing. Also idles at around 470-500 when in drive idk if it is supposed to be that low
I need your assistance in setting these adaptations, my car 545i, seems to screech on cold start for 1 second. I use inpa, and I can connect you via team viewer.
Hi Timm :) Great work as always with V8 engines. Mine actual value input on bank 1 and 2 is 79-81. Output is approx. 120 on both banks. Is it allright? I can hear a rattle noise but it also can be as well from hydrokinetic mechanism that is broken. All other units are as well looking as yours, some even better ;) but there is still some rattle sound that makes me sick. It is much louder at load when driving, from 1000-1800 rpm. I changed camshaft sensors, selenoids and timing chains with all additional elements.
Hello Przemo, have you changed your oil recently? th-cam.com/video/woTGvS8eyiY/w-d-xo.html
I use Castrol Edge FST 0W 30 and that seems to quieten down the top end - they are a little noisy though!
Sup Tim Thanks for your explanation it helps to understand the concept of operation I have a 2004 e46 318i with dtc 2852 285A 2866 2865 2850 2854 I have recently replace the valve tronic motor bought a Delphi e150 to relearn the motor but it seems that these dtc preventing it from relearning the motor the engine use to start ok before I change the motor. the problem I ad with it is that when u accelerate and release the throttle pedal you hear a slamming sound in the intake manifold to me it sounds like the throttle butterfly slamming shout due to maybe a backfiring in the intake manifold I dont have any experience with bmw do u ever com across this problem before
No, but diagnostics should help, especially the roughness page and the Vanos readings
Good afternoon, congratulations for your videos. I would like to ask you a question? I have a bmw 645ci year 2004. When starting with a completely cold engine it goes great but when its temperature starts to rise the camshaft position drops from 100 to 80 on both intake banks and when accelerating a kind of vacuum sounds that delays engine acceleration as well as the drop in revolutions, sounding a kind of suction in the intake manifold. Neither ISTA+ nor INPA detect fault codes. New spark plugs and ignition coils, as well as oil and filter, vanos learning done, new O-rings on solenoids, cylinder head cover gaskets and vanos electric motor also new, could you help me? thank you very much in advance
Hello Luis, first of all, the N62 IS a bit slow when the throttle is poked to start with, it takes a while for the Valvetronic system to increase the valve lift. However, the slurping noise could be the PCV valves - so worth checking them: th-cam.com/video/Yy_Vzir5xco/w-d-xo.html
Hi Tim, thanks for the video, your explanation is very nice. I checked my adaption values on my e65.
The adaption input Bank2 is in the red at 150, and I have code P0021 that says intake camshaft is advanced. Oil is fresh, vanos has been tested and replaced, camshaft sensors have been replaced. I don't know what else to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Have you changed the chain tensioner? Fortunately Bank 2 is the easiest one to get to
Hi Tim with Adaptations on bank one on start up my one starts around 88 and keeps dropping to 72 then bangs out a code exhaust camshaft tooth offset to crankshaft. Any tips?
Bank 2 stays steady at 76 and I have changes sensors on exhaust camshafts
Try changing the Chain Tensioner on Bank 1 (the difficult one) and pray that fixes it, otherwise it is probably chain guides
As always good information!
I picked up an 02 e65 (no history very inexpensive) It is simply a project car!
I cannot seem to find a definite answer if the block cylinders are honable or can be bored?
I've seen a couple have done it though
Hello Patch, only specialist engineers can re-hone the cylinders - as a general rule, modern BMW cylinders last the life of the car, the surface is extremely hard - and only about 4 thousands of an inch deep!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Thank Tim for the feedback. I thought as much. This is a gain for those of us that follow your channel when it comes to the N62. Well Let me ask you this then: is it too risky to freshen the ring then? My reasoning is this: The engine has no known history but was at some point well maintained, it came to my ply shop as the technical aspects were too much for the previous owner! That said I like the car car and that it can be a sleeper (hidden power) so I like to just take it apart once and be done with it as I often just take off across country for weeks at a time (Canada) something I enjoyed about the E 320. Crank bearing sound smooth but I suspect some piston ware 225k klm on her. The 6hp needs a pump what a racket her to separate that when before agreeing to take it on, so that the easy part ;)
Thanks Tim and I'll be checking out your webpage soon, not interested in the forums
Great Video Tim, Ran INPA on my 550i N62 2006 and 155k miles , and the values are not far off yours. Running ok. The slight problem i have on mine is that idle is hunting a bit rough, but the diagnostics come up ok. I since raised the idle speed to 670rpm , as its a manual and slowing down in a high gear (eg 4th) , does add some jerking before changing down to second. Anyhow the raise to 670 seems to help. Any ideas welcome from your incredible wisdom. Like the TR505 in the back BTW :). J
I have heard so many complaints of uneven idle on the N62 - that problem is usually a manifold leak or a failing MAF - but, I have heard of many owners with this problem that have checked and replaced with no good outcome. I'll keep investigating.
Daniel & Tim, thanks for the advice I will try those things and see if it narrows it down. The thing that baffles me is that the vitals on inpa are all within spec like Tims, and behave in a very similar way.
It's the oil pressure.... increase your viscosity
Hi Timm, can you help me reading my error codes and find the right steps to repair? I’m out of any idea and in Mexico I have no one to ask about the N62 engines! Thx 🙏
I really need some help. I’m close to give up!
Tell me what you need in this thread
Hi Tim,
I have a problem with the megatronic gear box of my 650 CI 2010. On 6 gears or when I drive with the engine on low RPM if I accelerate suddenly the gear box do not change to lower gear and the gearbox jump to neutral with a CaS message fault ( the sign is a crank yellow ) I have no more control of the gear shaft on auto or manual . I stop engine and restart all normal again . This happen only on auto mode never on manual mode. I have changed the gear box oil, lots smoother now but still have the problem time to time . I suspect either the megatronic electro valves or the over speed control unit that might be faulty and detect a wrong different shaft speed and disconnect the gear to neutral … I have ask 2 mechanics they think it’s the clutch but I don’t think so as everything works perfectly in manual gear or sport mode , it’s only on auto mode that I have the issue.
Any idea or recommendations ? Thanks 🙏
Hello Patrick, the best way forward is get a diagnostic scan and get me the error codes. But before that replace the battery, even if it is just a year old, it's a darn sight cheaper than most repairs!
I bought all new PIERBURG vanos Solenoids on my 07` Alpina B7, I can`t get rid of P0022. Any help or tips? Oil is 3k miles old- Liqui moly 5w40
Unfortunately that usually means timing-chain guides failing
Hi Timm, I have a e90/N46 and been puzzled by the VANOS values I read. The readings for Bank2 are literally off-the-charts! "Einlassventil Hub Bank_1 = 0.42 (mm)" yet "Einslassventil Hub Bank_2 = 65.53 (mm)" and also "Exzenterwellen Winkel Bank1 = 17.40 (Grad)" yet again "Exzenterwellen Winkel Bank2 = 6553.50 (Grad)". You would be right that I have a lot of CO and NO in Bank2 which is damaging the catalytic convertor. I have replaced it once myself (not a fun nor an easy job I must add) but it has damaged the 2nd Catalytic already. My fault as I didn't figure out the root cause of the issue. So any ideas?
Not an expert on the N46 - but replace the chain tensioner as a first call
Why does the DISA voltage show such a high value? The DISA voltage of my BMW E53 N62 is 0.90
any help for my problem? 2008 650i conv 100750mi. did valve stem seals and cover gaskets. now have code 2A8C exhaust adaptations. on start the car runs fine for 30-40 secs and then stumbles and throws the above code. car continues to run good after the stumble. using INPA i can see the bank1 exhaust value changing until the stumble and then the value freezes at 120. i have swapped solenoids, cam sensors, checked voltage at the plug (battery voltage, 3.3V other terminal). checked timing and spot on. have tried various forums and BMW tech. BMW tech says only left is to replace VANOS gear. any more ideas? i have vid of INPA but files are very large. i notice when watching the adaptations, bank1 outlet reads around 70, bank2 outlet reads around 72. when the stumble happens, the bank one goes from 70 to 85. before the stumble, all the VANOS readings work, and the activations change with throttle. after stumble, bank1 outlet stuck at 120 and none of the activations change anymore. the solenoids on outlet bank2, and both inlet continue to change. adaptations on bank2 outlet and both inlet adaptations continue to fluctuate.
Well, the adaptations are about right for an N62 that has been re-timed during the repairs. Your mechanic is on the right lines, one Vanos unit seems to be getting stuck, the adaptations start changing trying to get the timing back - and fails giving you an error code - adaptations at limits. Unfortunately with Vanos, there are a few possibilities, lack of oil pressure, solenoids or the Vanos unit getting mechanically stuck - always tricky for any mechanic,,,,
Hello Sir, excellent video, sometimes we find cars that do not start and we hear the engine without compression, can you make a video with inpa where you can see the position of the cam shafts in this fault ???, thank you.
Hello Juan, unfortunately INPA does not show the absolute camshaft positions, only referenced to the crankshaft sensor while the engine is running.
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Basically I want to see the position of the Vanos, while we do cranking, but without starting the car.
@@jmbmwmiami Diagnostics can't do that I'm afraid!
Hi Tim, first of all Fantastic and informative Video.
I've just purchased a 05 X5 4.8is ( In the land Down Under ) it starts fine but after about 5-10secs it starts running like its got a lumpy cam. After about 30secs it then idles fine. I've cleaned and checked the Vanos solonoids made a very very slight improvement but didn't fix. I've just watched this video and also scanned with my Foxwell and it comes up with the following codes. 2A89/ present DME Exhaust Vanos 2 and 2 A84/present DME Inlet Vanos 2 . I also noted in the live data the Following:
Vanos adaptation inlet cyl 1-4 125.60*
Vanos adaptation inlet cyl 5-8 68.30*
Vanos adaptation exhaust cyl 1-4 70.80*
Vanos adaptation exhaust cyl 5-8 126.80*
Is this normal??
Kind Regards
Ben
That's not what I would expect, first step is to change both the chain tensioners, Bank 2 is easy, the one on Bank 1 needs the engine lifting at least on the 6-Series....
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
Hi Tim
Thanks so much for your reply. Why would you say change the chain tensioner? Do you think the chain could be loose? Because there is no chain rattle and I pulled off bank 2 valve cover the other day and put a new Eccentric shaft sensor on and there was no slack in the chain it was tight. After putting back together it started no worries after doing a reset in INPA on the adaptations. In the live data the Valve lift was back to normal at idle as per your readings in this video, but as soon as i applied very light throttle it would splutter and then the values would go to 9.45 and then no longer move.
Thanks Ben
Hi Tim,
I've been going over and over this in my head. What are the chances do you think of it being a bad Eccentric shaft? Could this jam? When I changed the oil it was a bit sparkly.... something must of worn? If I pull the Valve cover off again what should I look for?
Thanks Ben
What software are you using? I’d love to be able to diagnose my 2010 550i
I'm using INPA: th-cam.com/video/6LWXmz6Ef_M/w-d-xo.html
And this is why I didn't do valve stem seals on my 07 BMW 750li.... everyone said change them and I know a lot about cars and said don't make since. This was at 115000 miles blue smoke on long idles. Vanos oil pressure controls timing. Out goes 5w40 to liqui moly 10w60 no blue smoke on long idles 180000 miles. It's all about the wear not valve stem seals.
Good call Jay!
HI TIMM 👋 i need some advice I have bmw 630i manual 2006 .. 1month ago I changed sparkplug and coil pack.. yesterday when im was drive car is stopped and no have really power similar when my sparkplug gone..engine code 7 come up mechanic guy tell me vanos is the problem so I don't know what I do now I need go some specialist to fix me because he just normal mechanic? Pls help me some advice what can I do
Vanos problems will not stop the car - just supply less power than usual. You need diagnostics next and follow this: th-cam.com/video/PKXcDmNmj2Q/w-d-xo.html
14:57
Could this be a way to see when it is time to change your timing chain tensioner? (M62)
Yes Gregory, that's the plan!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Love that! That “timing advanced code” that the car throws... do you think INPA would show that the adaptations are close to being maxed out when that code is thrown?
Hello, have a good day. Can you show for me this software on the video. Thanks.
Here you go: th-cam.com/video/CBfyCItOJH0/w-d-xo.html
Hi I have a 735 with n62 and the values of the input shafts are 90 degrees, the output shafts are 120 degrees. Is this normal because you say the input shaft should be at 100 degrees
Unless you have an error code you are fine
Hello Timm, your videos are awesome and i have learned a lot from it.
I do have a problem with my 740i. There is a rattle noise at idle, which I can't identify. The Inpa specs tell me, that timing chain and camshafts are fine. I have also checked water pump bearing, generator bearing and pulleys/belt tensioner. All fine.
Could this be a rattle from the vacuum pump? This is the only part i opened to change the seals.
Videos of my problem are on my channel.
I would very much appreciate your support.
Marcel
That could be a stuck lifter - have a read of this: www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Tappets.htm
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
Thanks for your answer. I know this problem from the n52 engine. That the n62 has this issue as well is new to me. I'll try to find a spot where i can do this procedure and give feedback.
Thanks for your support :)
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
Hello Timm, i have had some time checking some more things now. Some people said it could also be the timing chain tensioner on bank 2, because it's very high in the engine and if it leaks already the tension for the chain is too low and it starts to rattle.
That was not the case at my engine. I changed it, but it made no difference. At least its one weak spot less now.
But i also listened with more attention with my ear close to bank 2, and i noticed the rattle coming from near the eccentric shaft motor. I suspect it could either be that or a torsion spring of the camshaft.
Is there a chance to find the cause of the rattle without taking off the valve cover or do there even come more than these two causes into perspective?
Thanks in advance.
Marcel
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
This is my channel and my problem:
th-cam.com/video/exfhm36Asgo/w-d-xo.html
i have still no clue.
I am having no value coming from reading Vanos Adaptation exhaust bank 2, graph stuck with a straight line . where should I start looking ? replaced both vanos, crankshaft sensor, camshart sensors ..
Hello Marcello, it sounds as if you are getting no signal from Bank 2 camshaft sensor, so check Fuse 002 in the IVM - and if that is OK then it is down to the wiring and the DME itself.
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Thank you so much for getting back to me. I will take a look at this fuse tonight. I just wonder, if the fuse is burnt, and the wiring is bad, it would not give me any code if the wire was disconnected from the sensor, right? I actually test it , I disconnected it from the sensor and it gave me a code. :/
Hi Timm. Are you still replying to these comments? I have been having a nightmare trying to get some issues resolved with my n62 for a couple of years now. Let me know if you would be interested in helping me diagnose what could be going on and I will go into a bit more detail. Kind regards. March.
The best plan is to put a post up on Bimmerforums.co.uk on the 6-series forum - I'm on there and so are other well-informed members
hello I have a question for you about my car Vanos bank 2 retards how to solve this problem
Change the chain tensioner on Bank 2 - that's the easier of the two to change and is found in the V of the engine
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation
isn't it Impulse sending wheel?
Hello
on inpa test VANOS
Nockenwellenposition Bank 1 0.09
Istwinkel fuer Vanos 1[ WNWI_WO ] 0.12
Nockenwellen position Bank 2 -2.31
Istwinkel fuer Vanos 2 [ WNWI_ W1] -1.90
Thanks
Bro you dont give up time to read that you are clicking slow it down you we can see!
Press the COG button at the bottom of the video and run the playback speed at 0.25 - lots of time to see what I am doing!
Thank god youre not like dr bmw